April 27, 2006
Do the Geneva Conventions Cover Terrorists?
Two questions:
1) Do the Geneve Conventions protect terrorists? This is a question of fact.
2) Should the Geneva Conventions protect terrorists? This is a question of opinion.
I'll let Ace answer the latter first:
There are many reasons to object to extending Geneva Convention protections with full force to those, like Islamicists, who delight in cruelty and inhumanity. But one reason is psychological in nature, and nevertheless worth considering.
We cannot agree with the Islamists that we are subhuman and only they are entitled to honorable and humane treatement. We must insist, particularly with these racist thugs who consider those who do not share in their creed to be animals, that honor is based on reciprocal conduct and by compact.
We cannot agree that their status as fervent Islamists makes them our superiors and creates obligations towards them that they do not extend in return towards us.
For, if we do, are we not confirming their racist beliefs? Are we not telling them that we are, just as they believe, inferior to them by God's decree, and as such, fit only for slaughter or subjugation?
Do I have to even say
read the rest?
So, the answer to #2 is no, terrorist [my word] ought not be covered by the Geneva Conventions. But are they covered? This is a question of fact.
The Conventions apply to all prisoners of war. Should we consider Islamist insurgents prisoners of war? Let's see if they meet the conditions of a prisoner of war according to Article 4:2 of the Conventions:
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance...
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
Do the brave mujahidin wear uniforms or other regalia recognizable at a distance? No, they do not. Unless, of course, one considers Addidas knock-offs a
distinctive sign.
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1
I agree. Yet we give most, if not all terrorists caught two hots, and a cot with ocean view, and a towel for their head.
We should do that, and do. If only the MSM would show how well those terrorists are kept, instead of the Abu Garab pictures, (about 48 front pages worth for the Old York Times), we could win the hearts, and minds of those who are brain washed to follow allah.
Not only are we giving fair treatment to the Islamists, we are being stabbed in the back by the MSM. Perhaps, they are a form of terror, and as such should be given some type of treatment.
Posted by: Leatherneck at April 27, 2006 09:15 PM (D2g/j)
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We treat these terrorists better than any legit POWs have been treated in any previous war. It's ridiculous. And still the Leftards complain. Fuck them all. They make me sick.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at April 27, 2006 09:54 PM (M3nr/)
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The "logic" of libtards who say that the Geneva conventions "ought to apply" is mind-bending. I think they should consider applying their logic to the golden rule.
A. Everyone "ought" to follow the golden rule. (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you).
B. Since it "ought" to be, we should pretend that everyone in fact does follow the golden rule.
C. Since the terrorists, [ahem] "militants", kidnap people, saw off their heads, bomb people indiscriminately, set their enemies on fire, torture, and so on, then they necessarily must want to be treated that way (because they are doing unto others as they would want others to do unto them)
Conclusion: According to libtard logic, we must behead, torture, incinerate and otherwise abuse the crap out of these bastards because that is how they "want" us to treat them.
Posted by: Ansar-al-kufir at April 28, 2006 12:50 AM (y7gpG)
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The Geneva Convention is a quaint relic of a time long past, and should be relegated to the history books where it belongs. I say put jumper cables on their nuts and electrified needles in their armpits until they tell all. And the goddamn liberals too, for that matter.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximusi at April 28, 2006 05:16 AM (0yYS2)
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Ansar al-kufir
Spot on, chap. The left, frustrated that they can not draw an actual equivalence between the sickening barbarity of our enemies and the ridiculously humane treatment that child-murdering human debris recieve at the hands of our soldiers, they are forced to invent equivalence.
Projection - they want the US to be as bad as they think it is, so they have invent supportive information and pathetic straw-men in order to support their asinine assertions (since reality won't do it for them).
The fact v. opinion point is also an important one. The Geneva Conventions, if anyone on the left actually read them, are written specifically to ferret out and to guard against barbaric destruction like the kind that the Islamists practice - namely, the targeting, hostage taking and torture of civilians.
No mercy. Every Islamist in the world must be killed. Now.
Posted by: Good Lt at April 28, 2006 05:19 AM (yT+NK)
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I delved into the question of whether the Geneva Convention covered terrorists after Amnesty International came out with their ridiculous report and sensationalized statements that Guantanamo was the new gulag.
The essay was titled,
Amnesty's Insanity, Part II
Take a look. It covers both of your questions concerning both the law and ethics of the definition/protection.
Posted by: Granddaddy Long Legs at April 28, 2006 09:18 AM (v3hgS)
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Good Lt --
Yes. The libtards (excuse my ad-hominem) are an inventive lot, aren't they? To argue that the U.S. is in violation of the Geneva conventions if it mistreats these flea-ridden mongrels (my apologies to fleas and dogs) is akin to saying that a man who kills an assailant in self-defense is guilty of murder.
Such an argument ignores the ethical nature of the action (motivated from self-defense, not animus), the moving actor (the terrorist or in this case, the assailant, created the situation necessitating the use of force) and the legal definitions (which ultimately define the obligations and duties of parties living in a society governed by the rule of law). There is no equivalence between a premeditated cold-hearted murder and the killing of someone by means of lethal force in defense of one's own life. The end result is the "same" (someone is dead) but that's where the similarity ends. Period.
Posted by: Ansar-al-kufir at April 28, 2006 04:08 PM (y7gpG)
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I'll take it a step further -- if, by some chance, the Geneva Conventions were determiend to apply to the Islamist insurgents, then they would be morally wrong and ought not be followed.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at April 28, 2006 05:26 PM (4OIMX)
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The Conventions state that non-uniformed combatant are to be executed. I'm okay with that.
Posted by: Doug Halsted at April 28, 2006 09:22 PM (VVB4J)
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I covered this earlier, just like the previous commentator to this thread, when AI tried to fool us into thinking that the headchoppers and homicide bombers enjoy Geneva Convention protections.
Short answer: no.
Long answer: Oh HELL no.
IF we had signed the 1977 "protocols", THEN the jihadists MIGHT be covered. The reason that we did not do this was because the US Governemnt, exercising rare foresight, felt that we would be made too vulnerable to potential asymmetrical warriors.
Ace, and your understanding of the 1949 Conventions, is entirely correct. Someone has to be wearing a uniform and fitted out as a soldier to warrant that kind of coverage.
Sympathy for the Devil.
Jihadi Delento Est.
http://okipunk.com/?p=158
Posted by: Peter Bland at April 29, 2006 01:00 PM (nZC0w)
11
This from a country that gives rights to animals
Posted by: sandpiper at April 30, 2006 12:56 PM (QtdTZ)
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April 12, 2006
Another Fake Ramadi Offensive
Last December we
debunked a terrorist produced video claiming to show that al Qaeda controlled the streets of Ramadi. Today,
Bill Rogio debunks another 'major' offensive in Ramadi over the weekend.
It's interesting how a 'major' offensive can be carried out by the exact number of terrorists that can fit into a Toyota Corolla. It's also interesting to note the similarities between the video produced by a CNN 'stringer' (linked by Bill) and the video I have produced by a 'stringer' for the Islamic Media Center from which the image shown below was captured.
For your enjoyment, here is an image from our earlier debunking:
Thanks to Michelle for the link to my post and for bringing Bill's discovery to my attention. I didn't think I was going to have time to post anything else today-- and I really dont-- but I couldn't resist.
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1
It must be nice to have the Crescent News Network on your side. I wonder what itÂ’s like.
Posted by: Brad at April 12, 2006 05:46 PM (3OPZt)
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After thre years of anti-US press reporting bythe MSM I'm not supprised at anything those idiots do.
Posted by: Frank Saxon at April 13, 2006 10:40 AM (f2w5l)
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April 10, 2006
Bilal Hussein and the Continuing Saga of Insurgent Propaganda via the Media
Remember our good friend Bilal Hussein? He's an Iraq stringer who works for the AP and who's up-close and personal photos of terrorists in Iraq
helped to gain that organization last year's Pulitzer. Well, he's back in the news. This time as
part of an expose of how photos are staged, faked, & doctored by pro-terrorist stringers employed by the AP, AFP, Reuters, and Getty Images.
On one forum that I frequently visit, some of these doctored photos discussed in the article have been used to justify killing American soldiers in Iraq. In all cases they are used by Islamic extremists to justify their hatred of America and recruit new jihadis. Thus, the images used by the AP & other organizations--which are often staged and sometimes fake-- lead directly to the deaths of American troops and will eventually help justify the next act of terrorism against American civilians.
Via James Joyner here are some of the highlights of the National Journal article:
Thanks to digital technology, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are the most photographed in history. Photographers with digital cameras have provided, almost instantaneously, an enormous flood of accurate, dramatic, and even shocking images to people around the world. But the daily downloads of news photos include some that are staged, fake, or so lacking in context as to be meaningless, despite the Western media's best efforts to separate the factual from the fictional....
The photo editors for Time and The New York Times' Web site declined to comment. Other publications printed images of damage from the missile strike that seem entirely accurate. For example, Newsweek and The Washington Times published wide-angle photos of locals standing beside houses that had obviously been severely damaged. The New York Times print edition published the same wide-angle photo on January 18.....
The problem sharpens when no Western reporter is on the scene, but a photographer, usually an Iraqi stringer, is. Photo editors, or even local Western bureau chiefs, have trouble judging the veracity of the images that come from such an event. Last October, for example, The Washington Post printed a striking image of four caskets, purportedly containing dead women and children, and a line of mourning men on a flat desert plain outside the town of Ramadi, west of Baghdad. The photo, provided by the Associated Press, accompanied an article that began this way:
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The Century War With Islam
I'll admit it, I'm a Dan Simmons fan. Both
Hyperion &
Return to Hyperion deal with the time paradox problem & I loved both books. Incidentally, one of the major heroes of the Hyperion series is a Muslim.
On that note, what if some one was to come back from the near future and warn you about the coming War with Islam, Eurabia, & a future global caliphate? And what if it was your society's own damn fault that they are enslaved in the future because they were so self-critical and unwilling to engage in the ruthlessness needed to win a war?
A brief conversation between Dan Simmons and a traveller from the future---read the whole thing:
I tried to relax. “What do you want to talk about?” I said.
“The Century War,” said the Time Traveler.
I blinked and tried to remember some history. “You mean the Hundred Year War? Fifteenth Century? Fourteenth? Sometime around there. Between . . . France and England? Henry V? Kenneth Branagh? Or was it . . .”
“I mean the Century War with Islam,” interrupted the Time Traveler. “Your future. Everyone’s.” He was no longer smiling. Without asking, or offering to pour me any, he stood, refilled his Scotch glass, and sat again. He said, “It was important to me to come back to this time early on in the struggle. Even if only to remind myself of how unspeakably blind you all were.”
“You mean the War on Terrorism,” I said.
“I mean the Long War with Islam,” he said. “The Century War. And it’s not over yet where I come from. Not close to being over.”
“You can’t have a war with Islam,” I said. “You can’t go to war against a religion. Radical Islam, maybe. Jihadism. Some extremists. But not a . . . the . . . religion itself. The vast majority of Muslims in the world are peaceloving people who wish us no harm. I mean . . . I mean . . . the very word ‘Islam’ means ‘Peace.’”
“So you kept telling yourselves,” said the Time Traveler. His voice was very low but there was a strange and almost frightening edge to it. “But the ‘peace’ in ‘Islam’ means ‘Submission.’ You’ll find that out soon enough”
Great, I was thinking. Of all the time travelers in all the gin joints in all the world, I get this racist, xenophobic, right-wing asshole.
“After Nine-eleven, we’re fighting terrorism,” I began, “not . . .”
He waved me into silence.....[snip]
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Posted by: Howie at April 10, 2006 03:28 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: MiB at April 10, 2006 03:44 PM (2hPsb)
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Too far fetched! Come on now - lets be honest and say what we really think!
The only reasons Islam is in the headlines is 1)(most important) OIL and 2) (less important) Israel.
When the industrialized world develops a viable alternative to petroleum - Islam, Arabs, the whole lot will fade back into backwater 10th century oblivion trying to figure out how to manufacture toilet paper!
Does anybody seriously fear these people? Beyond their perchance for senseless cruel violence (which BTW - they tend to inflict on themselves 90% of the time!) they are freakin' idiots!
I am tired of people building this group up like some kind of giant! Yeah! They had their moment for a few centuries a thousand years ago - when the competition was a heavily divided Europe stuck in the Dark Ages and constantly at war with each other!
Now and the distant forseeable future belongs still to the West and Asia - as it has during most of the past!
Islam, like a few other "regions" of this world remain a sideshow of on again-off again interest - best left to a National Geographic Special of quiant customs and costumes.
Stop whining and fretting about Islam! Does anyone really believe we got to being on top by being whining pussies? Does anyone really believe our current crop of whining pussies would simply give it all up - in the face of ISLAM? (They may be lame - but they are not stupid - and really like being on top as much as we all (they just won't admit it).
Worry about real adversaries - like the Chinese, Japanese, the Euros (when they get their heads out of their asses), the Russians (yes - they will be back because they are tough talented SOBS).
ISLAM?????
Posted by: hondo at April 10, 2006 04:25 PM (4mgfY)
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Hondo, the other civilizations you mention generally value this life more than the "afterlife". The problem with muslim radicals is they willingly die and take others with them. A nuclear weapon in their hands doesn't bear thinking of.
They will always be an irritation to the planet and I think using the term "civilization" when referring to Islam is a loose one.
Posted by: Jester at April 10, 2006 04:46 PM (TuAMG)
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Jester
I understand that - they can be dangerous - like a pitbull - but a pitbull is still just a dog! I fear we are making the same stupid mistake multi-cultural diversity believers make by unwarrantly "building up" another culture - in their case - unwarranted achievements and respect - in ours - unwarranted fear and the respect that comes with it.
For god's sake! How many tanks, planes, bombers, warships etc. are manufactured in the islamic world? - ZILCH! NADA! ZERO!
The preferred rifle - an AK-47 (made in Russia, China or Yugoslavia) - not a Mohammed-18!!!!
Their missiles - cheap obsolete export from China - or worse - cheaper clones from NK!
Yeah! They are make some newer ones - based on the cheap NK obsolete clones!
Am I the only one willing to say the biggest problem a country like Iran will have with nukes is the dud factor!
Have we forgotten that during the first Gulf War some of the Scuds fired by Saddam had concrete warheads! WHY? He had the warheads - he had the Chemical ones too - but they need to be installed first! What was installed was done prior by Russian technicians! The Iraqis didn't know how!
When the islamic world starts manufacturing flat screen TVs, computer components, cars that can compete with Nissen or Saab etc. - then I will give them the respect of fear.
Lets be honest! Our "fears" aren't about islam - they are about ourselves - our own insecurities whether we still got it or not!
God! the Asians must be giggling behind our backs over our "uncertainties". No self-respecting Chinaman would go weak-kneed at the sight of islam! This whole debate is embarrassing!
Posted by: hondo at April 10, 2006 06:49 PM (4mgfY)
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hondo,
I rarely ever disagree with you, but just this one time I do. I remember reading about a man in a small city in an unimportant peninsula in a desert who had a dream. He wanted his people to be something more than a bunch of warring tribes beheading and murdering each other and fighting over caravans of supplies moving through the deserts. He claimed to be a prophet, was forced out of the city he knew and occupied another city. There a religion and a force grew.
After a few short years, and the conquest of the city he had to flee, this man and his followers came riding out of the desert to face two great powers of the ancient World, the Persian Empire and the Byzantine Empire. How would it be possible for these people to defeat these great ancient powers? Within 100 years, all of the Middle East, North Africa, Spain, southern France, the Persian Empire(which consisted of Iraq, Iran, and other parts of Asia), Syria, and parts of Anatolia had fallen to these invaders.
It was only possible for these two great powers to lose large parts of their empires or to be conquered because they had populations who were fractured, where unity had been destroyed, and large numbers of people felt no loyalty to the empires they lived in. Does this sound familiar? In other words, the people had gone soft.
Has this happened to us? Yes, to some extent this process is rotting the US, and has left Europe only a shell of what it once was. The West is at a crossroads. Can it recover? I think the jury is still out on the US, but Europe as a whole will not fight. This is a major problem for the West, because Europe, especially GB, had been the major power in the World for 300 years. France is gone, Germany is consumed by self-hate, and Italy and Spain are only interested in the status quo. The West may or may not survive, but if it does, it is time right now to take the action necessary to assure that survival.
Posted by: jesusland joe at April 10, 2006 08:00 PM (rUyw4)
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JJ
Sorry - no. When Rome collapsed in 476AD that whole region of the world went to hell in a handbasket fast - they don't call it the Dark Ages for nothing. The Byzantine Empire was an empty shell (like the later Holy Roman Empire - a grand title - nothing more. The Parthian/Persian empire was in the same situation - it was like without Rome to compete against, there was no real reason to be.
Islam was born (by luck) into a world regional void of self-doubt, fracture and collapse. There was absolutely no unity whatsoever to oppose it.
The region was filled with mini-states only nominally politically associated (on paper no less) with larger entities (like the Byzantine Empire - kinda like the relationship with a guy on the western Tennessee frontier circa 1750 and King George in London).
Christianity already had it first breakup (East/West) and the Eastern churches were arguing amongst themselves. People also tend to forget that at this point in Euro history, most Europeans WERE NOT CHRISTIANS! THEY WERE PAGANS!
I believe the last region in Europe to be Christianized was the Eastern Baltic around 1200!!!
Islam is a religion - a unifying factor that spread rapidly amongst pagan Arab/North African populations that were no longer under the control or influence of any outside power of substance - and unity at that point in time easily lent itself to the world's second oldest profession - world conquest. Their "victories" were inevitable - there was no one to stop them! They were in much the same situation as the Euro barbarians were in at Rome's end - easy pickings.
Islam was not monolithic in its conquests! It was Arabs, Moors, Berbers, Turkmen, Kurds etc all out grabbing a piece of the world under the faux banner of Allah - it was just convenient! lots of voices - one false face for PR purposes - and they conquered and slaugthered each other with equal gusto.
Much of the Arab/islamic world history is more myth than anything else. It would be like giving credit to the Ukranians for exploring and navigating the world - even though it was the English, Portuguese etc. - but using the rationale that the Ukranians are white Euro Christians too - just like the English etc. See how it works.
Arab time in the sun was extremely short-lived (a few centuries only). the Turks took over the regional ballgame next and held most of it till the early 20th century. After the Euros took back Spain they essentially ignored the Arab world as a backwater wasteland - till the early 1800s when they wanted empires for the hell of it and picked away at the islamic world - more for ego than anything else. They ended up giving it back as not worth it.
Who knew then about the oil and how important it would be - but when its no longer important - its back to camels, bedsheets,rugs and dust.
We make them out to be bigger and more influential that they are - why? - who knows.
This lesson will cost you 3 Micky D's JJ - I work/write for food now.
Posted by: hondo at April 10, 2006 09:40 PM (4mgfY)
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hondo,
You ask the wrong questions.
The question is: how many weaponizable diseases are manufactured in these countries? The answer? We don't know.
The intent is clear. Only capability may be lacking.
Posted by: M. Simon at April 10, 2006 10:14 PM (Yim1P)
9
Sorry
Its not Arab/islam strength we are discussing - but our own perceived weaknesses. Sure, there are problems - but nothing that can't be fixed or changed in short order.
Whatever our self-doubts - islam is not gonna be the one to capitalize on them - they are indeed backwater idiots. Now those Chinese are another story - let us hope our kung fu mojo returns before we square off against this real giant of the past and future.
Posted by: hondo at April 10, 2006 10:21 PM (4mgfY)
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Simon
I'm sure there is a tribe of pygmes somewhere who also hate us - and one may have a degree in Biology (from a Western University no less). And - so what!
Intent means nothing - all that really matters is skill, capability and real committment with a realistic quantifiable goal!
Sure - mr. mohammed is dangerous - not denying it - but I'm just tired of "building him up" to be 10 feet tall! I am a firm believer in never underestimating an opponent ... but this has become rediculous!
Posted by: hondo at April 10, 2006 10:33 PM (4mgfY)
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Hoo ha ha Hoo haha haaaaaaaaaa hooooohahaaaa Islam is coming to invade you, run, run for your life hoo hahaha , What a rubbish, you know, you people are scared, scared even to yourselves. It is not Islam who will kill you, your fear, greed and lust will kill you. If you people have the guts then read the book not the people. We have only one book not dozens that you should be confused which one to read. Will anybody be brave enough to tell, follower of which religion killed the most human? anybody, hello anybody, no, ok ..................... I am afraid it is Christianity, but we the Muslims have never feared that we are in danger because we know the truth will be victorious. I know the truth which I have found by my self. If you want to find the truth then do your own search don't just follow the warmongers.
Posted by: Raja Saeed at April 11, 2006 03:46 AM (XfUdJ)
12
JJ and Hondo are both right.
------------
"We have only one book not dozens that you should be confused which one to read."
Raja, you dumbass, that's your problem. Because you don't think for yourselves you will fail. You have only one book and your book is full of lies and deceit. hoo hahaha .... the joke's on you, fool. Who's the warmonger? You and your "prophet". You make war on your own people in too many ways. Keep killing each other. We'll help.
Posted by: Oyster at April 11, 2006 05:37 AM (YudAC)
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raja
So Raja! You read a book once! - That's part of an old American joke which I'm sure you won't understand. Me? - Oh, probably in the thousands. Like I said - a backwater idiot with a hyped past, and no future.
Try your luck frightening small children - it doesn't work with me. But, while your here ....
I'll have a coffee - milk - 2 sugars - buttered roll - and the Post.
Posted by: hondo at April 11, 2006 07:34 AM (4mgfY)
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raga,
You better get your moon god worshipping ass to the gym. I'm looking for your kind every day.
Posted by: Leatherneck at April 11, 2006 07:46 PM (D2g/j)
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They say a million monkeys on a million typewriters will eventually produce the collected works of Shakespeare; it can now also be said that one muslim on one computer should get a monkey to do his typing.
This idiot's post is just more evidence as to why we should kill them all.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at April 12, 2006 05:49 AM (0yYS2)
16
As I told you before it is your fear not Muslims who will kill you, and follow the book not the people. Go to this web http://www.jews-for-allah.org/index.html and see for your self how Islam has changed their lives, Fanatics has no religion or faith they are everywhere in every religion like the people who say ' you better get your moon god worshipping ass to the gym. I'm looking for your kind every day'. and some one said ' This idiot's post is just more evidence as to why we should kill them all'.
Lets be very honest to our selves, who was the Hitler? a Muslim or............... and who used the two atomic bombs and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, who started the first and second world war and who killed the innocent Muslims in Bosnia and raped 25,000 women were they Muslims?????
Who burned the black people alive and killed their children and women where they some fanatic Muslim, no I am afraid no, they all were Christians. So who is fanatic, uncivilised and barbarian, I think it is not very hard to tell who is. It is still not bad, what we all need is positive thinking and honest approach, do we have that?
Posted by: Raja Saeed at April 13, 2006 05:50 PM (XfUdJ)
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Raja,
Your problem is that you view America as the representative of Christianity.
Hitler did not represent or practice Christianity, and he absconded from his jewish background.
America dropped 2 bombs to stop a baberic war it not start.
As far as black people, America has made great progress in civil rights and realized its own shortcomings. I can't say the same for the "Easterners" who make their women cover up from head to toe and murder their daughters and wives in "honor killings".
Terrorists are bastards, and coincidentily, they are Muslim. America is progressive because it is not constrained by connections between religion and government. If your people's position is so intolerable, then do something about it. Come get some.
America fights its batlles face to face. America is not on a religious crusade. Muslims are on a religious crusade, and they tie their captives hands behind their backs and cut their heads off.
If you any problems, please see the Marines Stationed in Iraq, they will be happy to assist you.
Posted by: Garner at April 15, 2006 05:20 PM (x7v0S)
18
I don't want to get into this never ending debate. As I told you all before, don't follow the people because they might not be the true followers, read the book and you will get all your answers. Today, even the majority of the Muslims don't follow the Quran and Sunnah and they have brought bad name to Islam and its followers. That's why it is important for all of us to read the book and then raise the questions if there is any. may Allah guide us all on the straight path.
Here is another link, the people who chose to discover the Islam and they did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYo2T3V3y7U&search=Islam%20Muslim%20Khattab%20Hakamia
Posted by: Raja Saeed at April 16, 2006 06:29 AM (XfUdJ)
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Madchen, die pfeifen und Hennen (Hahnen), die krahn, soll man beizeiten den Hals herumdrehn.
Posted by: Milosh at June 14, 2006 07:31 AM (+RUJH)
Posted by: Felix at June 14, 2006 07:36 AM (Y6y60)
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March 29, 2006
Can we fight the long war?
So, the
Democrats have a 'plan' to win the war on terror? Unfortunately, their plan seems to be exactly what the Mullahs of Iran, and their Salaafist rivals of the Sunni extremist camp, all predict. Withdrawal from Iraq is exactly what they want.
Amir Taheri in the WSJ:
For the past several weeks Mr. Abbasi has been addressing crowds of Guard and Baseej Mustadafin (Mobilization of the Dispossessed) officers in Tehran with a simple theme: The U.S. does not have the stomach for a long conflict and will soon revert to its traditional policy of "running away," leaving Afghanistan and Iraq, indeed the whole of the Middle East, to be reshaped by Iran and its regional allies.
To hear Mr. Abbasi tell it the entire recent history of the U.S. could be narrated with the help of the image of "the last helicopter." It was that image in Saigon that concluded the Vietnam War under Gerald Ford. Jimmy Carter had five helicopters fleeing from the Iranian desert, leaving behind the charred corpses of eight American soldiers. Under Ronald Reagan the helicopters carried the corpses of 241 Marines murdered in their sleep in a Hezbollah suicide attack. Under the first President Bush, the helicopter flew from Safwan, in southern Iraq, with Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf aboard, leaving behind Saddam Hussein's generals, who could not believe why they had been allowed live to fight their domestic foes, and America, another day. Bill Clinton's helicopter was a Black Hawk, downed in Mogadishu and delivering 16 American soldiers into the hands of a murderous crowd.
According to this theory, President George W. Bush is an "aberration," a leader out of sync with his nation's character and no more than a brief nightmare for those who oppose the creation of an "American Middle East." Messrs. Abbasi and Ahmadinejad have concluded that there will be no helicopter as long as George W. Bush is in the White House. But they believe that whoever succeeds him, Democrat or Republican, will revive the helicopter image to extricate the U.S. from a complex situation that few Americans appear to understand.
Mr. Ahmadinejad's defiant rhetoric is based on a strategy known in Middle Eastern capitals as "waiting Bush out." "We are sure the U.S. will return to saner policies," says Manuchehr Motakki, Iran's new Foreign Minister.
And if the present batch of Democrats take the White House or Congress, they could be right.
Hat tip to Allah. No, not really, hat tip Bill at INDC.
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We have to keep fighting until there are no muslims left. Extermination is the only option, because that's their plan for us, so we can't afford not to win.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 30, 2006 06:47 AM (0yYS2)
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We Didn't Start this War
Rob and American Future have more on the jihad started by Muhammed and which continues today.
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Islam again. I can not stand Islam, and their boy Mo. It seems everyday there is something about those Muslim losers. It is like going home after work every day, and asking the wife what she cooked for dinner.
Honey, what's for supper? Meatloaf again?
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 29, 2006 02:38 PM (D2g/j)
2
Rusty, you are correct. The Muslims drew first blood.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 29, 2006 02:44 PM (rUyw4)
3
To all the limp liberals - you know - we could always blame it on the Jews - the muslims will buy that - along with many of your lefty friends.
Posted by: hondo at March 29, 2006 05:54 PM (StM4D)
4
Big Mo was a child rapist.
Posted by: Ayatrollah at March 29, 2006 06:26 PM (3AP/0)
5
A good muslim is a dead muslim.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 30, 2006 06:47 AM (0yYS2)
6
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I thought Saddam and the Iraqis weren't involved in 9/11 and our war only drew Al Quida into Iraq after Saddam had outlawed them.
And then there was the whole Kuwait War Part 1 where we went in, guns drawn. Whene did Iraq attack us? It's like saying that a country can come invade the US because we have members within our borders of violent extremist groups, some of whom may have been tied to a large terrorist attack in another country.
Why aren't we in Saudia Arabia fighting? They were the ones who were aiding the 9/11 hijackers.
Posted by: Navajo Homeland Security at March 31, 2006 03:50 PM (hu96W)
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Navajo Homeland Security,
Let's be honest. Iraq was Bush's chance to leave his legacy on America. What did he accomplish prior to 9/11? Nothing. You think this is about terrorism? It's about money, plain and simple, just like every other war. Ask yourself this question:
Why the hell is gas creeping towards $3 a gallon when we have an entire land mass rich with oil, half the size of the continental US that is not being utilized? (Alaska)
You think that Bush, an oil tycoon, didn't see this opportunity a mile away?
I'm not trying to draw a conspiracy. Yet there is much friction between the US friendly Arab & Muslim states in the Middle East and Iraq. Believe it or not, they would prefer stability over war, and Bush is attempting to provide this.
The big picture comes into focus. . .
Posted by: Garner at March 31, 2006 05:49 PM (dfrWc)
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March 28, 2006
The Latest Blood Libel Lie in Iraq
What would you do if every day you saw images of dead civilians, women, and children? Now, imagine that you are told these deaths were the result of Americans intentionally killing civilians. If this was your perception of reality, then you too would probably feel an obligation to fight America. At the very least, you would support those that took up arms.
Now imagine that it was mainstream media sources that were reporting Americans had massacred Iraqi civilians. The media, instead of challenging the version of the story as delivered by radical Islamists that routinely lie, equivocate and act as if the story told by U.S. soldiers is only one version of the truth. That the word of a U.S. soldier is just as suspect as that of Muqtada al Sadr.
Propagating the lie that U.S. soldiers massacre mosque worshippers constitutes a form of blood libel. By portraying American troops as blood thirsty murderers, jihadi propagandists create an atmosphere of obligatory vendettas. What moral person could stand by and let the Americans get away with this type of murder? By treating that lie as if it was a legitimate viewpont, the media help prolong the war on terror. Worse, they give jihadis recruiting power, which leads to the death of more U.S. soldiers and eventually civilians.
Take for instance this story from the Christian Science Monitor--a publication usually known for its excellent reporting--which treats the 'truth' as something unknowable:
Did US forces attack a mosque in a Shiite district of Baghdad Sunday night, killing 17 unarmed worshippers, an act that Iraq's Shiite interior minister called a "horrible violation" that has dominated Iraqi TV and sparked a political outcry?
Or, did Iraqi special forces, backed up by US advisers, take on a "terrorist cell" at an office complex, kill 16 "insurgents," and free an Iraqi hostage - only to have Iraqi provocateurs, as top US commanders allege, "set the scene up" to look like an atrocity?
See how that works? Two versions of the story, both of equal weight.
The Asian Tribune is even worse, stating that a massacre occured as a matter of fact:
Iraq: US mosque massacre deepens occupationÂ’s crisis
The massacre of as many as 40 unarmed worshipers in a northeast Baghdad mosque Sunday has triggered a political crisis that threatens to accelerate IraqÂ’s descent into civil war while sharply intensifying the hatred of millions of Iraqis for the three-year-old US occupation of their country.
Here, the
Chicago Tribune talks about a 'mosque raid' as if it were a
fact. U.S. troops have said that there was a raid, but it was not in a mosque:
Deadly mosque raid in Iraq enrages Shiites
Shiite political leaders erupted in anger Monday over a U.S.-Iraqi raid that killed at least 16 people at a Baghdad mosque complex, suspending negotiations on the formation of a new government and spurring the provincial governor to cut ties with U.S. officials.
By the way, the authors of the above Tribune article are
Aamer Madhani &
Nadeem Majeed. You'd expect such nonsense from the official newspaper of Saudi Arabia, the Arab News --
and you wouldn't be disappointed--but not the Chicago Tribune.
The British taxpayer supported BBC aids in the murdering of its own troops in Iraq by publishing pictures of the aftermath of the raid in which it declares as a matter of fact that it was against 'a Baghdad prayer complex'.
And here is a Washington Post article which also equivocates between the two sides. It identifies AP reporters who were oonvinced the complex raided was a mosque. Hmmm, I wonder if it was local pro-insurgent AP stringers often employed by that organization?
The question that arises is whether or not the media has some culpability in the death of U.S., British, Iraqi, and other Coalition soldiers when the stories they write inflame the fans of hatred and make winning the war impossible. When did the Chicago Tribune forget that it was in Chicago? When did the Washington Post forget that it was in Washington? Do these organizations have any loyalty whatsoever to their country and fellow citizens? Or are they so cosmopolitan that they believe the death of a U.S. soldier is no more sad than the death of a member of Muqtada al Sadr's terror brigades?
UPDATE: More commentary from Bluto here.
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The answer to your question Rusty, is yes, the media is culpable for the death of hundreds of soldiers in Iraq. The lies the media is telling through the jihadist stringers they hire to take photos and write stories is shameful. The media makes only a half-hearted attempt to verify what has happened.
This latest incident is nothing more than jihadist propaganda being spread by the media. One would think these people would have better sense, but what it all boils down to is BDS.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 28, 2006 03:56 PM (rUyw4)
2
This from al-Jazeera,
"An al-Sadr aide, Hazim al-Araji, said: "The American forces went into Mustafa mosque and killed more than 20 worshippers ... They tied them up and shot them.""
Consider the source. Even al-Jazeera's report is giving both sides.
Posted by: Oyster at March 28, 2006 03:57 PM (rGS2g)
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NPR reported that all middle eastern press show this stuff over and over all the time. Pics of dead Iraqi's coupled with anti American propaganda. The perception you speak of is promoted even more there that's all they see all day long. No wonder! And liek you said our own press doesn't help any.
Posted by: Howie at March 28, 2006 03:58 PM (D3+20)
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The only heartening thing is that America has survived near-treasonous press coverage in the past and come out stronger. Revolutionary war, civil war, even WWII.
On the other hand, I suppose it's a bit like being the human cannonball at the circus, and hoping you hit the net just right for the eleventy-seventh time.
Okay, I'm depressed again.
Posted by: a4g at March 28, 2006 04:20 PM (X/md9)
5
The US military does lie. Often. In this case it became clear yesterday afternoon that the military press people were being less then honest with their verion of events. Calling it a "prayer complex" was the term used by the US even though a prayer complex and a mosque are the same thing. Their mistake was not being honest about what happened at the get go. We have attacked mosques before when there have been insurgents hiding inside, so it isn't like we are breaking new ground. Just say we were getting bad guys in mosques, don't lie about it being a mosque or not.
They are busy spinning a lot of scandals these days, so maybe they need to hire some more spinners. Get your application in, Rusty.
Posted by: John Gillnitz at March 28, 2006 04:22 PM (eHLUP)
6
I share your despair and frustration re: press & Co.
I posted only yesterday an article titled "Undeserved Hostility" in which I lay the blame on several columnists for giving the impression that Bush & Co have become Mesopotamian bandits...
If you have time...
http://cercasidemocrazia.blogspot.com/2006/03/undeserved-hostility.html
Posted by: enzo at March 28, 2006 04:25 PM (7BIKb)
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Enzo, I read your post and I thank you for your kind words.
Posted by: Oyster at March 28, 2006 04:37 PM (rGS2g)
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John, the photo by the BBC didn't appear to be a mosque. I don't claim to know the difference between a mosque and a prayer complex, but I didn't see a mineret. Perhaps you meant to say we attacked the Fellowship Hall. That would be kinda like attacking a church. Sorta, in a way, or perhaps jihadist stringers with an agenda hired by the MSM would see it that way. Who knows?
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 28, 2006 04:48 PM (rUyw4)
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The military and Administration have to call the media on this nonsense. They can remind the public that one of CBS's crack photographers in facing trial for inciting violence.
The media was on the defensive last week and didn't like it one bit. Call them on this blood libel.
Posted by: Kate at March 28, 2006 05:02 PM (dZUpK)
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John Glintz is one of those Liberals who "supports" the troops even while vilifying them and contributing to their deaths.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 28, 2006 06:26 PM (8e/V4)
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John is most likely very comfortable with jihadist stringers hired by the media to report on the war. After all, they are highly unlikely to have an agenda. And for a plus they can get those odd photos of setups....uh, the aftermath of battles that took place inside "prayer complexes". And he accuses someone else of spin while he is playing like a top. Are you getting dizzy yet, John?
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 28, 2006 06:39 PM (rUyw4)
12
Does anyone know who the portraits represent in the BBC's third picture? The one in the middle, a little higher up from the others, seems to have a glow about him.
Posted by: Randy at March 28, 2006 07:04 PM (njLsB)
13
Joe very few mosques have minarets only the largest. Here in the USA most mosques also go not have minarets. They are even often located in strip malls. Mosques are very much like fellowship halls often small and local in nature. Do I believe that the insurgents were handcuffed and executed ? No Do I believe that at least some of this occured at/in a mosque ? Yes. But I also realize trhat I could be mistaken, I do not fully believe either side. They have both lied often. CYA seems to be the correst career path.
Posted by: john Ryan at March 28, 2006 07:11 PM (TcoRJ)
14
MSM like CNN, the New York Times, and NPR will continue to lose customers for their misleading of the public. Hopefully they will fold.
NPR will continue with our tax money. Those who work at NPR feel they should have a position, not a job, and paid for by our taxes. It is called socialism, and it looks like France.
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 28, 2006 07:11 PM (D2g/j)
15
John Ryan, I was referring to John Gillnitz's post, but I would never believe anything one of the jihadists said. Islam gives them permission to lie, cheat, steal, rape, plunder, murder, and commit any form of mayhem on the kuffirs without any guilt or punishment conferred on the pepetuator. I know of no other religion that encourages these things.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 28, 2006 07:37 PM (rUyw4)
16
Isn't the most likely story the one told my the military John? They didn't say it wasn't a mosque, only that since they found weapons, IED materials, prisoners, and appeared to be using it in the sectarian murders we've been hearing about lately, that they didn't "consider it a mosque". Since, you know, mosques are places of worship and not usually places where you execute people. Oh, wait a second. So, the point was not that this wasn't a mosque, but that the military didn't walk into a place where a bunch of dudes were praying, they walked into a place where a bunch of thugs and terrorists were holed up.
Posted by: Rusty at March 28, 2006 08:03 PM (JQjhA)
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The irony that is lost on these anti American, pro-terrorist media figures is that if, God Forbid, America loses against these jihadists, the jihadists will be the first to come for their western media lackeys and merrily slit their treacherous throats.
A recent example if this was the whole cartoon fiasco, you see all these haters heaping dirt on the US Army but they all had to find hiding places and carry packets of underwear when it came to publishing a few cartoons.
The western public rightly dislike them but their jihadist masters despise them.
Posted by: MathewK at March 28, 2006 11:44 PM (pVHqF)
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The point that Rusty was making, as a couple people appear to have missed, is that the majority of the media, without the benefit of a formal investigation, have told only one side of the story.
Even al-Jazzera told both sides awaiting a final decision. Frankly, to say "both sides have lied" is only part of it in more than just general terms. One side has lied
every single time. Me? I'll defer to the US side until I have proof otherwise.
Posted by: Oyster at March 29, 2006 07:37 AM (YudAC)
Posted by: WPB at March 29, 2006 02:31 PM (T35yi)
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"Isn't the most likely story the one told my the military John?"
In this case, no. Often the military can not say what actually happened for a number of different reasons. In this case the story changed a few times. Each time it changed it caused more questions then answerers. Its bad PR.
Do I think we came in and killed a bunch of innocent people? No. I think we killed a bunch of Shiites who have been killing Sunnis. The military can't come out and say that because Shiite death squads aren't supposed to exist even though it is quite clear that they do.
Posted by: John Gillnitz at March 30, 2006 03:49 PM (eHLUP)
21
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Posted by: CLONAZEPAM at April 08, 2006 10:10 AM (ejZe+)
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March 27, 2006
If we lose the propaganda war, we lose the war
W. Thomas Smith in
Townhall:
Perception is everything. And when applied to the war in Iraq, perception, public opinion, and a far-reaching press are all variables that could ultimately have a hand in any setback or defeat for U.S. and coalition forces in that country...
I do, however, have concerns about false and deliberatively inflammatory propaganda aimed at manipulating audiences. I am not suggesting that any press – good or bad – be quashed. What’s good or bad is open to interpretation anyway. But I think we should recognize the difference between news (including reported facts, analysis, and opinion) and propaganda.
The most important variable in defeating an enemy is that they
believe they will lose. Rarely will people fight for a cause that they believe will ultimately fail. That is why we must believe we can win, and why we must convince the enemy that they will lose. And that is why propaganda is such a positive tool. Unfortunately, most people believe that propaganda is somehow bad since it allegedly distorts reality. It can, but so can "unbiased" news. In fact, I would argue, that no news can be "fair and balanced". The very questions we ask are the outcome of our predispositions and therefore lead to inevetable biases.
We will only win the war on terror when the media bias becomes one in favor of American victory rather than one of defeatism.
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This is exactly the point I was trying to make when Background argued that I was being "naive".
Posted by: Oyster at March 27, 2006 10:17 AM (V9juS)
2
To be effective propaganda must be believable. Propoganda must be perceived as accurate reporting of both the good and the bad, mistakes and successes. If a story is "unbelievable" it had better have massive irrefutable documentation.
Posted by: john Ryan at March 27, 2006 11:32 AM (TcoRJ)
3
Actually propaganda can take the form of good or bad information, John. It doesn't necessarily have to be both. And it doesn't even have to be factual. Now if you're talking about "news", that's a different story. Since the onset of this war journalists have used "news" as a propaganda tool rather than a reporting of unbiased accounts of what is happening along with a major imbalance of of good v. bad in that reporting.
Posted by: Oyster at March 27, 2006 01:22 PM (V9juS)
4
In other words, we won't lose this war in Iraq, we'll lose it here at home against the MSM.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 27, 2006 01:52 PM (WCwrR)
5
Hate to break this to you, but you have already lost the war.
Posted by: Sonic at March 27, 2006 10:35 PM (Gsn6c)
6
You are absolutely right - we're showing our enemies the vulnerability of our country through the media reporting on the War in Iraq. The media, it seems, wants us to lose this war and have already begun pushing that idea to their audience. While a political war rages here over whether we should be in Iraq, our men and women are still over there fighting to complete their mission. This is a fact and the only one we should be focusing on at this point. They need our support as a nation and this support is not there when they read what the media is putting out. Stick to the facts and you will know we are succeeding in our mission - and we will win this war. Americans are too smart to fall for this media manipulation...
Posted by: AnnaB at March 30, 2006 09:12 AM (+K/WF)
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March 22, 2006
Clinton vs. Bush: Comparing U.S. Soldier Death Rates
Active duty deaths during Clinton's first four years (1993 - 1996): 4302
Active duty deaths during Bush's first four years (2001 - 2004): 5187
Here's where that data is from via Rob at Say Anything.
That's 881 more deaths under Bush's watch in those four years (no data available after that). See especially the sharp decline in the number of homicides and suicides now compared to those glorious Clinton years. Can somebody remind me what the Clinton administration accomplished militarily in those years?
More discussion here.
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I hated Clinton - rarely if ever even mention him but ...
... this has got to be one of the dumbest approaches for the basis of argument I have heard in awhile. Why?
Posted by: hondo at March 22, 2006 03:24 PM (9pQ6D)
2
It's standard statistical inference and quite common--especially in epidemiology. That is, when comparing across time one cannot only focus on a single causal factor. While the number of U.S. casualties have gone up dramatically due to casualties of war, they have gone down significantly in other areas--especially the murder rate and the suicide rate.
Posted by: Rusty at March 22, 2006 03:34 PM (JQjhA)
3
Er uh lets see he bombed that Milosovek dude and got our ass run our of Somalia. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah 11 missiles at Al-Qaeda. That a lot of dead guys for not doing much.
Posted by: Howie at March 22, 2006 03:39 PM (D3+20)
4
Can you locate the numbers for Reserve and Guard deaths? I suspect that there would be a major difference during the two periods.
Posted by: Alan at March 22, 2006 04:05 PM (Y6cqr)
5
Reservists and National Guardsmen are generally considered "Active Duty" when called up and deployed.
Posted by: Rusty at March 22, 2006 04:08 PM (JQjhA)
6
This results of this comparison are to me about as useful as a comparasion of US civillian deaths by terrorists durring the same period. Personalites are interesting but fail to give the full picture of what has happened or is occuring. As Tolstoy noted it was not Napolean that invaded Russia.... it was the French Army that invaded Russia.
Posted by: john Ryan at March 22, 2006 05:40 PM (TcoRJ)
7
A leader who seeks soley his own council is a dangerous man! Object lesson in progress!
Posted by: Thesaurus at March 22, 2006 06:23 PM (Y2ILH)
8
Strange, and sad topic. While all these fellow Americans have died, neither Mr. Bush, or Mr. Clinton buy their milk the same way we do, and never will.
I never cared about Mr. Clinton getting a B.J., more men should get them. However, it appeared Mr. Clinton is a globalist, and stabed this last nation state in the back to further that end.
Mr. Bush was once, I think, an WASP capitalist, but is being pushed to be a globalist. For example, KAFTA, debt increase to weaken the U.S., and the southern border invasion of people, and exit of untaxed monies.
More, and more Americans die to keep fellows like Mr. Clinton, and Mr. Bush in office.
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 22, 2006 07:12 PM (D2g/j)
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I think Rusty has grasped the most useful inference we can make in this comparison: as combat deaths went up deaths from suicide and murder went down. This is the signature of men doing what they feel their service and mission are supposed to be. Anyone remember the theme of
Frem Here to Eternity?
Posted by: Demosophist at March 22, 2006 11:30 PM (N7Eh1)
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Hated Clinton. Still do. But in all fairness to our fat letcherous hillbilly ex-pres during his first term the nation still had a cold war sized military. More troops = more deaths from accidents etc.
Posted by: Jones at March 23, 2006 10:07 PM (SJ35d)
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March 21, 2006
Muslims React to Apostasy Trial in Afghanistan
The
Big Pharaoh has a collection of reactions from Muslim commenters regarding the upcoming trial of Abduhl Rahman in Afghanistan for apostasy. Remember, these are comments on an
English language website--not al Jazeera. Here are a few zingers:
"I am a female medical student. Converting out of Islam is forbidden"
"In our law, a person who forsakes the religion should be killed and there is no freedom in this regard."
"To my secular Muslim brothers who are expressing their sympathy towards this man: these are the teachings of Islam, no negotiations in them."
Luckily,
not all the comments were that bad. But I'd suggest reading the comments carefully before taking them at face value. Hint: the word
if is used a lot.
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1
Round 'em all up and rope 'em off from sane, civilized, decent societies.
Posted by: Hailus at March 21, 2006 02:48 PM (Y2ILH)
2
Hopefully the beginning of some serious out-in-the-open self-examination.
Islam is long overdue for this.
Posted by: hondo at March 21, 2006 02:51 PM (9pQ6D)
3
Oh hailus
Fuck you strawman asshole.
Posted by: hondo at March 21, 2006 02:55 PM (9pQ6D)
4
Islam cannot be reformed to the "more humane" status. Bin Laden and the Iranian mullahs consider themselves reformers! They cannot be integrated. Segregation or mass apostasy are the only options.
Posted by: Veritas Regina at March 21, 2006 03:00 PM (jXE2n)
5
Islam is a true enemy of all those who are not Muslims. Yet, the United States keeps letting Muslims into this country, and allowing them to have their own schools. How long will it take before the sh$* hits the fan here?
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 21, 2006 03:21 PM (D2g/j)
Posted by: hondo at March 21, 2006 03:25 PM (9pQ6D)
7
Gee, if the first President/Puppet can't fix this situation, we should depose him and find a stronger puppet, perhaps -- not a Muppet [Muslim + Puppet] though?
Posted by: davec at March 21, 2006 03:27 PM (CcXvt)
8
I hope you are right hondo. I fear you are wrong.
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 21, 2006 03:52 PM (D2g/j)
9
Fair enough Leatherneck.
Posted by: hondo at March 21, 2006 04:04 PM (9pQ6D)
10
lol dave - *I* thought it was funny.
Posted by: Oyster at March 21, 2006 05:00 PM (YudAC)
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 21, 2006 05:15 PM (rUyw4)
12
That woman is a dumb crack. Mohammed said that muslims should show kindness towards Christians because they are the people of the book.
but again mohammed said a lot of things...such as Blow yourself up and fly planes into buildings and kill as many people as possible. capture innocent people and behead their head...
....and mohammed also said all muslims must say "Death to President Bush and death to America."
Posted by: billy faeth at March 21, 2006 06:18 PM (Lc35u)
13
This is the most inane, pathetic thread I've ever wasted my time reading. Hondo, the tard, made the most intelligent contribution by the way.
Posted by: bob at March 21, 2006 07:01 PM (Z5xru)
14
bob
You are so kind! since I'm on a roll - bob! Don't waste your time! - go f**K yourself!
Posted by: hondo at March 21, 2006 07:28 PM (9pQ6D)
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 21, 2006 08:12 PM (D2g/j)
16
Geesh! I was going to leave this pathetic web-site but I see I've been summoned back! Right back at ya Hondo! The world is my oyster! Round 'em up and rope 'em off!
Posted by: Hailus at March 21, 2006 09:12 PM (Y2ILH)
17
hailus
And when you finally get bored here, you can run around your neighborhood ringing doorbells and hiding in bushes giggling.
Posted by: hondo at March 21, 2006 09:44 PM (9pQ6D)
18
All I'm saying before I strike out for greener pastures is that We need leadership that works day and night figuring a way out of this mess even if it means missing a few photo-ops, a golf game, 5-week war-time vacations, playing guitar with the old-folks during hurricanes or autistic basketball.
http://votetoimpeach
Islam should be regarded as organized crime and rounded up and roped off! The world is my oyster!
Posted by: Hailus at March 21, 2006 09:56 PM (Y2ILH)
19
Hailus,
I read this blog everyday. You don't seem to get the message. GO AWAY! You are annoying...
- Max
Posted by: Max at March 22, 2006 07:12 AM (+kFf8)
20
Just as I was about to leave this sorry-ass blog I have been summoned back to the fray by yet another envious admirer! Just when I thought I was maxed out!
Democracy has been rendered unpalatable by our misleader who hi-jacked the election process and demonstrated to the world what a fragile system democracy is that it can be bought by a green, tyrannical wannabe. His approach to spreading Democracy around the world is like trying to get a dog to come to you by beating it!
We need sensible leadership that will work hard day and night trying to figure a way out of this mess even if it means missing a photo-op, golf game, 5-week war-time vacations, playing guitar with the old folks during hurricanes, or autistic basketball. http://votetoimpeach.org
The world is my oyster! Round 'em up and rope 'em off!
Posted by: Hailus at March 22, 2006 11:17 AM (Y2ILH)
21
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What is the most important information I should know about Clonazepam?
• Use caution when driving, operating machinery, or performing other hazardous activities. Clonazepam will cause drowsiness and may cause dizziness. If you experience drowsiness or dizziness, avoid these activities.
• Use alcohol cautiously. Alcohol may increase drowsiness and dizziness while you are taking Clonazepam. Alcohol may also increase your risk of having a seizure.
• Do not stop taking Clonazepam suddenly. This could cause seizures and withdrawal symptoms. Talk to your doctor if you need to stop treatment with Clonazepam.
What is Clonazepam?
• Clonazepam is in a class of drugs called benzodiazepines. Clonazepam affects chemicals in your brain that may become unbalanced and cause seizures.
• Clonazepam is used to treat seizures.
• Clonazepam may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this medication guide.
Posted by: CLONAZEPAM at April 08, 2006 03:04 PM (fOvXe)
Posted by: ALPRAZOLAM at April 12, 2006 07:28 PM (bJn+i)
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Muslim Snake-Oil Salesman Is 'Moderate'
I can't name a single televangelist I like. Not. A. Single. One. It's not so much the shallowness of their theology as it is their staged and canny performances. There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with turning the divine into a stage show. So, what to make of
this CNN report about a popular Muslim televangelist from Egypt?
Notice the subtitle: Popular Egyptian televangelist tries to bridge Islam and West
He must be some kind of moderate, right? Well, yes, in fact, he is. But as we've discussed here dozens of times, being a moderate in the Islamic world is still a far cry from ideal [emphasis mine]:
Islamic televangelist Amr Khaled is young, smiling, teaches love and mercy and is so popular he's credited with inspiring thousands of women -- turned off by dour, traditional clerics -- to take on the veil. ....
He is a very simple, moderate, humble man, easygoing. He makes you feel like you are his sister," said Zeinab el-Sherif, 32, a wealthy, veiled Egyptian businesswoman who has been a fan since hearing Khaled at her club a decade ago.
"He is so tolerant and friendly, he makes you feel good about your religion and yourself," she said.
Apparently he's the Muslim Joel Osteen. That perfect mix of good looks, watered down doctrine, and theological feel-good self-help for the religious who are deeply worried they're too rich--all wrapped up with transparently fake sincerity and lots of staged hand gestures.
The entire article paints Amr Khaled as the seminal moderate Imam. Sure, he's moderate by Muslim standards--he doesn't want to kill those who blaspheme Muhammed, he just, you know, wants to pass laws making irreverancy illegal. And, ladies, when you're not busy soiling your panties over his charm and good looks, please remember to put on your veil. We wouldn't want an uncovered head to force an otherwise chaste Muslim brother to rape you. Because, if he did, we'd probably have to kill you.
This much credit I will give to Christian televangelists: at least they give lip service to a God deeply concerned with human freedom, liberty, and dignity. So, maybe all televangelists are snake-oil salesmen--but at least there is some value to what our guys are selling.
Thanks to Fred Fry for sending the link.
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1
I kinda like that "Farting Preacher" guy.
Posted by: OyOy at March 21, 2006 01:41 PM (UHKaK)
2
Does he speak of "Daddy" often?
Posted by: Brad at March 21, 2006 03:14 PM (3OPZt)
3
The United States Supreme Court hears only those cases that they find to be the most importnt. Blasphemy was the law of the land in these United states until the United States Supreme Court in Joseph Burstyn,Inc v Wilson 1952 held that the New York State blasphemy law was an unconstitutional restraint on freedom of speech. God Damn those activist judges ! Those moderate muslims are just sooo last century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy
Posted by: john Ryan at March 21, 2006 03:57 PM (TcoRJ)
4
John, what the heck are you getting on about? What does the restriction of the showing of a motion picture which was deemd "blasphemous" 54 years ago have to do with a Muslim televangelist in Egypt?
Posted by: Oyster at March 21, 2006 04:10 PM (YudAC)
5
I think in this case, "watered down doctrine" is a good thing.
Posted by: rightwingprof at March 21, 2006 04:17 PM (/IE5Q)
6
A damn shame it is to see a cradle Catholic turn his back on the faith. Weather his mom is in heaven or on earth, you know she is praying every day for her son to return to the Church. Free will can be costly to a soul.
The lad seems to believe spiritual enlightenment is an anti American state of mind.
Posted by: Sean O'Grady at March 21, 2006 04:50 PM (3OPZt)
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March 18, 2006
Documents Confirm No Saddam Link to Terrorism
If the NY Times can get away with misleading headlines, why can't I? Newly released documents confirm that the Saddam Hussein regime actively funded al Qaeda linked terror organizations. Abu Sayyaf is al Qaeda's Southeast Asia wing--all emphasis mine
Weekly Standard:
SADDAM HUSSEIN'S REGIME PROVIDED FINANCIAL support to Abu Sayyaf, the al Qaeda-linked jihadist group founded by Osama bin Laden's brother-in-law in the Philippines in the late 1990s, according to documents captured in postwar Iraq. An eight-page fax dated June 6, 2001, and sent from the Iraqi ambassador in Manila to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Baghdad, provides an update on Abu Sayyaf kidnappings and indicates that the Iraqi regime was providing the group with money to purchase weapons. The Iraqi regime suspended its support--temporarily, it seems--after high-profile kidnappings, including of Americans, focused international attention on the terrorist group.
Okay, so there seems to be a relationship with an al Qaeda linked organization, but not al Qaeda, right? More:
A SECOND internal Iraqi file obtained by The Weekly Standard concerns relations between Iraqi Intelligence and Saudi opposition groups. The document was apparently compiled at some point after January 1997, judging by the most recent date in the text, and discusses four Saudi opposition groups: the Committee for Defense of Legitimate Rights, the Reform and Advice Committee (Osama bin Laden), People of al Jazeera Union Organization, and the Saudi Hezbollah.
The New York Times first reported on the existence of this file on June 25, 2004. "American officials described the document as an internal report by the Iraqi intelligence service detailing efforts to seek cooperation with several Saudi opposition groups, including Mr. bin Laden's organization, before al Qaeda had become a full-fledged terrorist organization." According to the Times, a Pentagon task force "concluded that the document 'appeared authentic,' and that it 'corroborates and expands on previous reporting' about contacts between Iraqi intelligence and Mr. bin Laden in Sudan, according to the task force's analysis."
The most provocative aspect of the document is the discussion of efforts to seek cooperation between Iraqi Intelligence and the Saudi opposition group run by bin Laden, known to the Iraqis as the "Reform and Advice Committee." The translation of that section appears below.
We moved towards the committee by doing the following:
A. During the visit of the Sudanese Dr. Ibrahim al-Sanusi to Iraq and his meeting with Mr. Uday Saddam Hussein, on December 13, 1994, in the presence of the respectable, Mr. Director of the Intelligence Service, he [Dr. al-Sanusi] pointed out that the opposing Osama bin Laden, residing in Sudan, is reserved and afraid to be depicted by his enemies as an agent of Iraq. We prepared to meet him in Sudan (The Honorable Presidency was informed of the results of the meeting in our letter 782 on December 17, 1994).
B. An approval to meet with opposer Osama bin Laden by the Intelligence Services was given by the Honorable Presidency in its letter 138, dated January 11, 1995 (attachment 6). He [bin Laden] was met by the previous general director of M4 in Sudan and in the presence of the Sudanese, Ibrahim al-Sanusi, on February 19, 1995. We discussed with him his organization. He requested the broadcast of the speeches of Sheikh Sulayman al-Uda (who has influence within Saudi Arabia and outside due to being a well known religious and influential personality) and to designate a program for them through the broadcast directed inside Iraq, and to perform joint operations against the foreign forces in the land of Hijaz. (The Honorable Presidency was informed of the details of the meeting in our letter 370 on March 4, 1995, attachment 7.)
C. The approval was received from the Leader, Mr. President, may God keep him, to designate a program for them through the directed broadcast. We were left to develop the relationship and the cooperation between the two sides to see what other doors of cooperation and agreement open up. The Sudanese side was informed of the Honorable Presidency's agreement above, through the representative of the Respectable Director of Intelligence Services, our Ambassador in Khartoum.
D. Due to the recent situation of Sudan and being accused of supporting and embracing of terrorism, an agreement with the opposing Saudi Osama bin Laden was reached. The agreement required him to leave Sudan to another area. He left Khartoum in July 1996. The information we have indicates that he is currently in Afghanistan. The relationship with him is ongoing through the Sudanese side. Currently we are working to invigorate this relationship through a new channel in light of his present location.
In light of this, how is it possible that
the Left continues to insist President Bush
mislead the American people about Saddam Hussein's link to terrorism? While not a slam dunk case, it's certainly disengenious to argue that the White House
knew there were no links between Iraq and al Qaeda when the Iraqi's themselves believed such a link existed.
More evidence here.
Hat tip: Captain Ed and The Commissar.
Posted by: Rusty at
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1
Because it sounds good Rusty and it's not about hat just like the Clinton thing was not about the BJ. the sad thing is that quite a few most people, like you said, will just hear it so many times and not look into it and start to believe it.
I heard em NPR Friday all last week. NO WMD. Actuall I thought the was was actually because Sadam would not comply with the UN for twelve years and we knew he would seek WMD as soon as he had bucked the UN off if he did not already have some. so it was Sadams lack of cooperation for twelve years and flat refusal to stand down that was the actual trigger for the war. He was trying to squirm out of the inspections and all the resolutions. He played to win or loose it all NOW and lost.
Posted by: Howie at March 18, 2006 05:28 PM (D3+20)
2
How is the RNC going to keep the MSM from spiking this?
Are they even going to try?
How is Bush going to use this information to finally answer his most vocal critics?
Is he even going to try?
Or is this going to be something that never sees life outside the 'Sphere and FoxNews?
Is our side going to sit here and let it be spiked?
--Taq
Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at March 19, 2006 12:06 AM (j8OrO)
3
Also of interest, USS Neverdock has an
ABC news recording from 1999 reporting that Saddam had ties to bin Laden and harboured terrorists. How the mainstream media's tone has changed.
Posted by: Grumpy Troll at March 19, 2006 03:28 AM (6wE5R)
4
I expected this post to be flooded with the ususal moonbat tripe, and liberally, (pun intended), peppered with words such as "wingnut", "lockstep", and "Bushitlerburton", used as magic phrases to banish foes to the nether realm.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 19, 2006 07:07 AM (0yYS2)
5
Maxie, it's Sunday. They're all in church.
Posted by: Oyster at March 19, 2006 09:53 AM (YudAC)
6
I thought they were all at work. You know, busing tables and delivering pizzas.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 19, 2006 04:27 PM (0yYS2)
7
Did I say "church"? I meant Pizza Hut.
Posted by: Oyster at March 19, 2006 05:30 PM (YudAC)
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Is this all you've got? 2000 Americans dead over an agreement to broadcast some frigging speeches? You've got to be kidding.
Posted by: jim collins at March 20, 2006 03:13 PM (mGpJR)
9
If you had been reading The Jawa Report all along you would not be so ignorant. So just what do you think we should have done with a state that sponsors palestinian terrorists, Al-Qaeda, Lies, thumbs his nose at the US and all international authority for 12 years. Harbors Abu Musab A-Zarqawi,etc, etc... on and on. Give him a freaking medal? If you say states that sponsor terror are just as guilty as the terrorist and will be held accountable (libs are always talking about holding someone accountable) then you had best do it.
Posted by: Howie at March 20, 2006 03:31 PM (D3+20)
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MSM Calling Success a Failure
It's almost as if they
wanted us to lose in Iraq.....
Posted by: Rusty at
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1
i don't know if they actually want us to lose or if they just don't want Bush to be successful. of course, at this moment in history, those two things are two sides of the same coin. my guess is that so many on the left (and in the media) can't handle the idea of a republican or a conservative winning a war. Vietnam wasn't a problem until it became apparent that a republican was going to be president, WWI, WWII, and Korea* were run by democrats or liberals...
*not so much a win as a draw
Posted by: KG at March 18, 2006 01:06 PM (SZsz5)
2
YES! They and many others here in this country want us to lose! Defeat to them is OPPORTUNITY! An opportunity to re-establish themselves in power in order to pursue their priorities - first and foremost is their liberal/left domestic agenda.
Consequences of losing are irrelevant to them. They believe they are tolerable - and if necessary - fixable later with their brilliance.
Even on the aspect itself of war - if it is necessary in the future - they will fight it their way with their strategic brilliance and faux-muscle.
They however are idiots - self-absorbed and disasterously delusional!
Posted by: hondo at March 18, 2006 02:02 PM (9pQ6D)
3
i'm just wondering what 'want' is doing in the past tense in your if-clause... they still want us to lose in Iraq!
They wont be satisfied until they're enslaved and "only obeying orders".
Posted by: Daniel at March 18, 2006 05:48 PM (9BWBW)
4
And that's suppose to pass for what exactly? A critique of tense utilization? So obviously - self-absorbed an definitely delusional.
Posted by: hondo at March 18, 2006 06:25 PM (9pQ6D)
5
Hmmm. I'm not finding anything at all about this on the lefty blogs.
Posted by: Oyster at March 19, 2006 11:13 AM (YudAC)
6
I think a lot of people underestimate how much liberals really hate this country and all it stands for. Not enough for them to actually leave, mind you, but enough to wish for its defeat militarily and culturally. When I'm in charge, they can leave or die.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 19, 2006 04:35 PM (0yYS2)
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March 15, 2006
Falling Man of 9/11 Identified
The man shown in a now infamous photograph falling from the Twin Towers on 9/11 has been identified as Jonathan Briley, a claim made by the British tabloid,
The Mirror. A documentary about 'The Falling Man' will be aired on the British TV channel 4 tomorrow. Briley was one of dozens who chose to end their own lives by jumping, rather than face the horror of being burned alive.
The Mirror:
Five years after the horror of September 9, 2001, the falling man has finally been identified as Jonathan Briley, a 43-year-old who worked in a restaurant at the top of the north tower.
Over the years, his family has always assumed he perished in the building. Now, learning he had jumped is almost too much to bear.
His father, Alexander, a Baptist minister, has still not come to terms with the manner of his son's dying. "I can't talk about it," he says. "My life's work is telling people that they have to go on after tragedy, but I can't do it for myself."
Jonathan's elder sister, Gwendolyn, says: "When I first looked at the picture... and I saw it was a man - tall, slim - I said, 'If I didn't know any better, that could be Jonathan'....
THEY caught a man, seemingly calm, plunging to his inevitable death.
The picture was published around the world, causing widespread revulsion, as if merely looking at them was to intrude upon a moment of private agony. After September 12, the picture was rarely shown again, but Tom Junod couldn't get the image out of his head and spent years trying to discover the identity of the Falling Man.
It was executive chef Michael Lomonaco who finally solved the mystery.
"Jonathan fitted the body type, the skin colour, and it left the door open for a possibility that it was really Jonathan," Lomonaco says.
Jonathan's father is still too upset to speak about his son but his sister, Gwendolyn, is ready to talk.
"Jonathan was a person who just loved life and it was contagious so that when we were around him, you couldn't help smiling and laughing." Nobody will ever know for sure if Jonathan was the Falling Man, although the evidence makes it highly likely.
In one of the pictures, his white shirt is blown away by the wind to reveal an orange T-shirt - identical to the one he wore to work.
But as Gwendolyn says: "It's not about trying to find out who he is, but what his death says to all of us." And what it says is ... never again.
Never forget. Never again.
Thanks to Olivia for sending the link and for reminding readers that this drives home the point that the struggle against Islamofascism is not about race, but about a murderous and totalitarian ideology.
UPDATE: Michelle Malkin has a moving tribute here.
Posted by: Rusty at
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1
Have you gone totally insane Carlos? Calling for the slaughter of "all" Arabs?????
Posted by: Rusty at March 15, 2006 05:03 PM (JQjhA)
2
Rusty,
you should know me better by now. Delete, and then ban that IP.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 15, 2006 05:27 PM (8e/V4)
3
The school systems in America should show how Islam made that poor man jump from a building. My respects to the family.
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 15, 2006 05:27 PM (D2g/j)
4
Seems that the same person(s) that were trying to cause trouble last week (U.S Patriot/Warrior for Christ) is nick jacking.
another case of the lefts 'fake but accurate' projection?
Posted by: davec at March 15, 2006 05:34 PM (CcXvt)
5
I should have known better. Banned.
Posted by: Rusty at March 15, 2006 05:35 PM (JQjhA)
6
No worries. All it really means is that I really piss the moonbats off. And that makes it all worthwhile!
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 15, 2006 05:44 PM (8e/V4)
7
This is a tragic story. I find the photos of people jumping from the towers to be very difficult to look at. They force one to think about how much suffering those people were enduring to make that final decision.
And it's all just a joke to people like the fake Carlos above.
Posted by: Graeme at March 15, 2006 05:45 PM (OBcUM)
8
The only joke I see is our government sending precious young Americans to Iraq to die for a worthless subhuman race that is only here to spread destruction.
I pray for the day our Marines get the order to round up and slaughter these vile arabs.
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 15, 2006 06:01 PM (p74Yq)
9
Damn. Houston, we have a problem. I'm assuming that's not Leatherneck either?
Posted by: Rusty at March 15, 2006 06:15 PM (JQjhA)
10
I don't think it is. Just a troll dropping turds because apparently what we ACTUALLY say on this blog doesn't live up to the screaming conservatives in their fevered brains.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 15, 2006 06:25 PM (8e/V4)
11
Wow. The emotions that photo stirred up. Feels like Sept 11, 2001 again. Some days I wonder if I agree with this Leatherneck dude, but that's just as wrong as what they did to us.
Posted by: Ernie Oporto at March 15, 2006 08:30 PM (WvUov)
12
Islamophobia:
Tell the people who were forced to jump from the twin towers, to escape the flames, that they have an irrational fear of islam.
/Frack islam. It's kill or be killed.
Posted by: Princess Kimberley at March 15, 2006 10:23 PM (9xjdU)
13
I haven't been able to put into words why it's so very hard to look at those pictures. But... "as if merely looking at them was to intrude upon a moment of private agony," is pretty close. I can't imagine being faced with that decision.
I wonder if they realize they started the story with:
"Five years after the horror of September 9, 2001..."
Posted by: Oyster at March 16, 2006 03:25 AM (YudAC)
14
Please do not stereotype muslim people. A handful of extremists are causing these barbaric acts of destruction and those who follow Islam for what it is would never dream of taking part.
After all the Klu Klux Klang is white people, if they murder an ethinic person then we do not stereo type all whites to be racist.
Posted by: Ram at March 16, 2006 05:04 PM (bqOl6)
15
difference is of course, you're comparing ideology vs. race, 4,000 Islamic terrorist acts since 9/11/2001 tell me again about this "handful"
Posted by: dave at March 16, 2006 05:16 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: JAMIE at March 17, 2006 05:48 AM (Do2Wz)
17
we need to bomb bag dad and let sadam husain go through all the pain jonathan did and the rest of the horid crew
Posted by: amie at March 17, 2006 06:27 AM (Do2Wz)
18
we will never forget the people who died and thy wil always be remebered
ecspeacailly jonathan
kill the sudam husains group and let them lot suffer for the pain they cause
Posted by: laura at March 17, 2006 06:28 AM (Do2Wz)
19
I watched 'The Falling Man' last night and I found it heartbreaking. I had not seen the footage from that terrible day before, and I will never forget it. I personally think it was incredibly brave to jump from that building. It was that or burn to death. I know which I would choose.
Posted by: Sam at March 17, 2006 10:02 AM (2G+Yz)
20
i watch the falling man last night, it was hard to believe that this realy happened. it hard to believe that they had to choose how they died. i will never forget the picture
Posted by: meha at March 17, 2006 11:40 AM (Zlipb)
21
god bless america...we will never forget all the people who died on september 11th...
please remember dont hate muslims and mistake them for cruel heartless people...only the ones who have done such wrong things should be punished and hated...thank you
Posted by: may at March 17, 2006 03:27 PM (Zyc5C)
22
this man should hav been ok and i fell sorry for hi8m
Posted by: shannon at March 18, 2006 05:52 AM (pRf0G)
23
i am real sorry for all thouse peeps that dide and who ever done it should me hanged so that is wat i fink
Posted by: shannon x.babylove.x at March 18, 2006 05:56 AM (pRf0G)
24
I think Jonathon was a brave man ! I watched "The Falling Man" and i will never forget it! It touched my heart like it probably did millions ! He had courage and he took his life into his own hands and i respect him for that ! x x x
Posted by: Jodie at March 19, 2006 06:49 AM (EURzM)
25
After watching the 'falling man' last night i found it hard not to cry! i had never seen thease pictures before i had watched this but i will never forget the images but he had a choice of being burnt to death or jumping... i don't no what i would do its so diffiult to choose!
Posted by: katie at March 20, 2006 03:25 PM (FGEoC)
26
I would have caught fire first. That would take my mind off the free-fall....
Democracy has been rendered unpalatable by our misleader who hi-jacked the election process and demonstrated to the world what a fragile system democracy is that it can be bought by a green, tyrannical wannabe. His approach to spreading Democracy around the world is like trying to get a dog to come to you by beating it!
We need sensible leadership that will work hard day and night trying to figure a way out of this mess even if it means missing a photo-op, golf game, 5-week war-time vacations, playing guitar with the old folks during hurricanes, or autistic basketball. http://votetoimpeach.org
The world is my oyster! Round 'em up and rope 'em off!
Posted by: Hailus at March 22, 2006 12:20 PM (Y2ILH)
27
my regards go to the family of a devestating loss of such a kind and gentle man.
Posted by: louise at April 01, 2006 09:32 AM (uCbTT)
28
i just watched the documentry on 9/11: the falling man n now i realise that jonathan eric briley n i feel so sorry and angry that someone can do such a thing such a thing as to take someone's life in that way and my heart is with jonathan's family .
R.I.P JONATHAN ERIC BRILEY YOU WILL
ALWAYS BE IN OUR HEARTS X X X X X X
Posted by: Lucas Brooke at April 08, 2006 06:55 PM (HXEXj)
29
just to say that i am only 14 n i will never forget those images i saw i found it hard not to cry seeing all those people jumping it was either that or be burnt alive i know what i would do and it was certainly brave for those people that did jump
R.I.P EVERYONE THAT DIED THAT DAY x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Posted by: Lucas Brooke at April 08, 2006 07:03 PM (HXEXj)
30
I watched the documentary on "The Falling Man"
i must say my heart is with everyone who died that day. Jonathan Briley was a brave man and i dread to fink wat he was feeling.
R.I.P XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Posted by: Sammy-jo at April 09, 2006 09:41 AM (Q+DnS)
31
I watched the documentary on "The Falling Man"
i must say my heart is with everyone who died that day. Jonathan Briley was a brave man and i dread to fink wat he was feeling.
R.I.P XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Posted by: Sammy-jo at April 09, 2006 09:42 AM (Q+DnS)
32
R.I.P for the victims of 9/11 xxxxx
Posted by: amy at April 09, 2006 02:34 PM (5GnRe)
33
I live in the U.S. I am only 14 and a freshman in High school. My world studies teacher he is from Britain. His mother still lives in Great Britain. My teacher told our class about his mother informing him about the video. I have been trying to find out more about the documentary. I have read the articles but not seen the video. It is crazy that anyone would have to decide wether they wanted to be burned by a terrorist act or jump and die in a form of 'suicide'.... CRAZY!
God bless those victims and families of victims of 9/11
Posted by: Ashley at April 09, 2006 07:23 PM (gcaIo)
34
as i steel feel hurt and upset today as i am only 11 n i was 5 or 6 when it happend ofcorse i didnt quit understand but now i wathed the falling man and looked up about it i know feel devestated and how much i think how brave johnathan briley was
may he rest in peace
r.i.p to evry brave sole in the towers
u will steel be in my hart till aslong as i live
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Posted by: hollie at April 10, 2006 06:24 AM (3nb8+)
35
I was devestated when i heard i was 8 when it happened i just would like 2 pay respect 2 evreyone who died in the attack and 2 all the families griving. RIP GUYS
WelshGuy224
Posted by: Ben at April 12, 2006 10:21 AM (9T+CG)
36
i wish that this never happend and that the world could just be peaceful i am 13 years old and i just cant belive this happend.
Posted by: joanne birks at April 30, 2006 12:24 PM (+xKX8)
37
i am twelve years old and i have never understood the pain and suffering poeple went through on 911 until watchang the falling man, now i do and i cry just thinking about it never mind seeing photos like the one of johnathon briley. god rest his soul. i dont understand why god lets theese things happen to inocent people.why?
Posted by: amy at May 02, 2006 12:14 PM (E1m4V)
38
Its not a matter of if , its a mattter of when. man will destroy itself and this world soon enough. killing arabs isnt the solution either,even if half of them are complete nutters there not all evil people. 911 is just one of many trajedys that have occurred in the past and there will be many more to come.
Posted by: anon at May 17, 2006 10:21 AM (HTTxf)
39
Great work!
http://qcbswnbo.com/uefn/yhrk.html | http://dvgyordh.com/kdhh/jfae.html
Posted by: Candice at May 21, 2006 05:08 AM (koa1j)
40
Good design!
http://eaujfjic.com/yund/iqah.html | http://uqtcsuol.com/qfsa/ewsx.html
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March 06, 2006
The West's Deadly Ideological Battle With Islamic Jihadism
Today, two different opinion pieces target the same important issue, one that we need to not only hear much more about, but one that we must get deadly serious about making our number one priority - the battle over ideologies, to win the battle of hearts and minds with the clear objective of ending the threat of terrorism by the totalitarian ideologies of Islamic jihadism. (It is wrong and even deceitful to argue that jihadism has nothing to do with Islam, because the jihadists believe that they are acting as "true Islamic believers" and learn the Islamist mind-set in mosques and Islamic schools, including those of the Islamic diaspora in Europe).
We in the United States, the Western Europeans and other allies, as well as moderate Muslims, are engaged in a global battle of ideas, and our enemy is "barbaric if possible and deadly and suicidal if necessary." This battle is against those who want to "destroy the secular Western societies of Europe and the United States, moderate Muslim societies throughout the Middle East, as well as India, Indonesia and Israel, to mention just a few". There is no negotiating our way through this war, that's impossible, and defeat is unthinkable.
The challenge that we in the West face, along with our allies, is to utterly discredit the totalitarian ideologies of jihadism just as we discredited Nazism and communism before. And we need President Bush and all of our leaders" to lead us in the ideological fight just as Ronald Reagan did in the Cold War. "We need to hear from him – and the rest of our leaders – the kind of blunt comparisons we heard from Reagan - that radical Islam enslaves people."
In Jed Babbin's excellent opinion piece at Real Clear Politics, we are reminded of our failure to adequately engage the Islamists in the idealogical battle that is as much a necessity in the War on Terror as the military operations:
(...) We arenÂ’t fighting a war against terrorists to win the hearts and minds of the Middle East. We are fighting it to end the threat of terrorism. Victory canÂ’t be achieved with bullets and bombs alone. This is, at its core, an ideological war. Just as we defeated communism by defeating the communistsÂ’ ideology, we need to attack and destroy that of the radical Islamists.
(...) To do that, we first have to understand that radical Islam – the Islam of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Usama bin Laden and the rest – isn’t a religion. It is an ideology that cobbles totalitarianism together with a messianic vision of religious nationalism. Radical Islam (unlike the actual religion) tolerates no other religion, and demands that its adherents give up the basic human freedoms enshrined in our Bill of Rights. No freedom of speech, no free press, no fair trials by a jury of your peers, only enslavement. Like the Nazis, the radical Islamists play on the sense of persecution and cultural inferiority that many people in underdeveloped nations have because they are truly oppressed. And, like the Nazis, the Islamists have convinced their followers that the problems of their world are the fault of others. The Islamists blame every ill of their world on America, the West, the Jews and Israel. Like the Soviets, the Islamists believe that their enslavement of the world is inevitable (though, unlike the Soviets, they believe it is God’s will that they must succeed). Its adherents, like the Nazis and the Communists before them, believe their victory is both inevitable and irreversible. That is a powerful ideology which we have yet to engage with the necessary weapons.
(...) Our military – comprised of many of the best people our country has ever produced – is winning every fight it enters. But it can’t win the war alone. Our politicians have to do that by fighting the ideological war.
(...) President Bush needs to lead us in the ideological fight just as Ronald Reagan did in the Cold War. We need to hear from him – and the rest of our leaders – the kind of blunt comparisons we heard from Reagan. Radical Islam enslaves people.
Read all of "Fighting the Ideological War".
However, just getting President Bush and our political leaders to stop fighting each other and join in battle with the enemy of America and the West, is only the begining; what's needed is not only recognition of the problem and leadership, but also a sound and solid strategy to win. That's where Ariel Cohen's piece comes into play.
Ariel Cohen, Ph.D., a Senior Research Fellow in the Kathryn and Shelby Cullom Davis Institute for International Studies at The Heritage Foundation, offers agreement with Babbin (above) that we are engaged in an ideological battle, and in referring to the latest violent convulsion in Iraq, he says that this homicidal rage has nothing to do with the United States. It has everything to do with the political ideology of militant Islam:
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Posted by: Richard@hyscience at
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Hyscience,
i don't know about this "ideological war"...as in placing to much emphasis on it. Granted, i have read only what you have wrote here (haven't read the links yet), but Muslims/Islamists/Arabs have been subjugating their own Women for centuries (not to mention "Honor Killing", etc.), and that is just for 'starters'. If this subjugating or basically the enslavement of their own Women isn't caused by Islamism, then who or what causes it?!?
To even play silly "Ideological" games with such a mindset is a waste of time, in my humble Low and Ignorant Insane swamp hermit's opinion. Islam must first accept that human Women are not the property of human men or Men. It seems to me, that Islamic jihadism is deeply rooted in the base (or basic family
building blocks) of the Muslim/Islamist/Arab world, and that the "West" needs to help the Muslim/Islamist/Arab Women first!!! And, in my humble opinion, talk is a waste of time, and only actions will provide results.
Muslim/Islamist/Arab Women have Voted in hordes, when given the chance to Vote...just look at their turnout in Iraq and in Afghanistan, when they have the help and support of the "West" and even the UN.
Heck, the "West" can't even win their own "ideological war" in the "West" (take America for just one of many examples)...so to speak.
KÃ¥rmiÇømmünîsâ€Â
Posted by: KarmiCommunist at March 06, 2006 04:22 PM (icxd8)
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I think both pieces are well off the mark. The struggle to adapt Islam to modernity is a problem for Muslims to solve. America can do nothing more in this regard than funding reformist elements. If there is an ideological war to be fought it will not be won by infidels.
Jihad is not a new and mysterious phenomenon and the scripture and logic that support it now did the same a thousand years ago. We are faced with a revival of traditional Islam rather than some strange contemporary mutation.
Those who would distinguish between religious Islam and political Islam are utterly clueless. Both articles are in my opinion utterly worthless.
Posted by: Ken Lydell at March 06, 2006 04:49 PM (6WO3K)
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I agree with Ken. The resurgence or aggressive Islam is more in line with their historic beginnings. Mohammed himself took part in the beheading and plundering of the Jewish tribes in the Arabian peninsula.
The jihad came riding out of Arabia in the early 630's and had conquered a large part of the known world in just 65 years, including Spain in the West all the way to India in the East. The slaves, riches, women and booty were incalculable, and financed the jihad for the next several hundred years.
The period of relative calm we have enjoyed the past 200 years is what is unusual, not the 1200 years of the jihad. That has been the usual rather than the unusual with respect to Islam.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 06, 2006 05:13 PM (rUyw4)
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The title should be changed to, Look What Happens To You When You Worship A False Moon God.
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 06, 2006 06:15 PM (D2g/j)
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The only thing that needs discussed is the best way to dispose of all the muslim and liberal corpses when we have to kill them all.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 06, 2006 06:39 PM (0yYS2)
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i agree with Leatherneck here.
How difficult can it be...here is just one example:
The Islamic Jihadism's Deadly Ideological Battle With W Will Bring *DEATH* to Islam
Women are not meant to be mere sexual slaves to mere horny human males...so to speak of such 'Thangs.
Does anyone reading this, know how much it costs in Prison, to have sex with a
*REAL* Woman?!? i do. It costs a lot...far more than the 'Free World' mind can comprehend...so to speak gently.
Simple solution here...start killing the weak males, or let them try to run Prisons.
Life on Earth is a *LOT* like Life in a Prison...
KÃ¥rmiÇømmünîsâ€Â
Posted by: KarmiCommunist at March 06, 2006 07:17 PM (4cWxS)
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I also have to agree with Ken. I don't know how one of the authors can say that "jihadism may not be Islamic" when it is a fundamental part of Islam. How can there can have been a "politicization of Islam" when Islam is inherently political -- they don't call it SharÂ’ia "Law" for nothing?
Posted by: Don Miguel at March 06, 2006 09:14 PM (UAn5X)
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Barbra Streisand is choking, and humble me hasn't even allowed her to see me yet. Her lusting is like a bolt of lightning...simple as that. Older Ladies are like that, huh.
Well, "babs"...nice try, but i am a devote hermit.
Karmi
Former
*LOVE* God
Posted by: KarmiCommunist at March 06, 2006 09:46 PM (aZULh)
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I think it is almost time for line of fire, pop smoke, shift fire, single envelopment, pop smoke, cease fire. HEY IMPROBULUS MAXIMUS, STOP FIREING!
BZO or die!
Posted by: Leatherneck at March 06, 2006 10:28 PM (D2g/j)
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I will cease fire when I'm out of ammo, or when all muslims, hippies, liberals, communists, nazi's, et al, are dead.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 07, 2006 05:17 AM (0yYS2)
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As Rusty has said numerous times, Islam is not only a religion. It's a socio-political system. They're intertwined. You can't have one part of it without the other and be a "true" Muslim. The biggest aspect of Islam, as it's taught in the Middle East particularly, is intimidation, guilt and fear. Intimidation from their Imams and tribal leaders, guilt for the slightest pleasures and fear of Allah. It's ingrained in them that the slightest deviation can buy them a one-way ticket to hell.
To change a fourteen hundred year old mindset is a monumental task. One I'm not convinced we can ever achieve without constantly hammering away at it for generations. The children are our best hope. These people are innured to death and destruction. They've lived with it all their lives. They've lived with this since long before the Soviets ever invaded Afghanistan or since Iraq was invaded by the coalition. The worst crimes committed against Muslims have always, always, been from their own people.
It's very heartening to see the kids over there smile and play and hopefully, with a taste of freedom, they will grow up to reject their parent's hateful and backward ways. They should be the main target for reform. The rest, those who intimidate, should be dealt with harshly.
This isn't to say that all the adults are lost. But a significant number of them are. It's too deeply rooted in them. Even some women will be hard to crack. Subjugation is all they know.
Iraq was the best bet for instilling a democracy in the Middle East. I think mostly because of the literacy rate. Saddam signed his own death warrant by educating the people and being secular.
Islamism is not yet on its death bed, but it is being admitted to the hospital. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but that's what *I* think.
Posted by: Oyster at March 07, 2006 07:05 AM (YudAC)
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Once again ,there are NO moderate muslims,moderation is not within the compass of islam,there is no choice either follow the way of the paedophile , or you are not muslim.
Posted by: bob at March 07, 2006 09:19 AM (JKxsf)
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Let me give you all an historical example. In Spain a Muslim ruler was trying to decide whether to allow his city to become a vassal of a Christian king or call for aid from the Berber tribesmen in Africa, who he knew would take over and never allow him to rule again.
Here is what he said: "I would rather be a sheepherder in Africa than be ruled by a Christian". I believe that sums it up. The moderates will pick radical Islam over Christianity or secularlism every time. That's how Islam is. Until the religion is remade, it will not change.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 07, 2006 10:32 AM (rUyw4)
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You're right JJ. They've been under ham-fisted rule for so long they're accustomed to not having to make their own decisions or determine their own destiny. Islam does it all for them. They don't even have to decide which hand to wipe their butts with or what size stick is proper to beat one's wife with, let alone who to marry, what to do for a living, how to split up your stuff when you die or what food to eat. They're told who to hate, when to have sex and how many times a day to pray. Muhammed left no stone unturned and dictated every aspect of life right down to the smallest detail. And if you're willing to be a snitch and a watchdog, you get rewarded. And if you shed blood for Islam, you get the big whorehouse in the sky!
Posted by: Oyster at March 07, 2006 12:58 PM (n/nt4)
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in order for muslims to be able to live as free people, as do we, they would have to be able to think for themselves, which they do not, can not, and will not. They are verminous drones, spreading their plague of death to the ends of the earth, and will not stop until we have killed the last one.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 08, 2006 05:51 AM (0yYS2)
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March 03, 2006
Jewish Terrorists vs. Muslim Terrorists
Jewish terrorists:
throw firecrackers.
Muslim terrorists: bombs.
A lot of nuts in the world. Some are more deadly than others.
Posted by: Rusty at
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Actually firecrackers don't constitute terrorism, it does define assholism however - and the world's got plenty of that too.
Posted by: hondo at March 03, 2006 02:46 PM (fyKFC)
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First Define The Meaning of terrorist???
Posted by: Mobeen at March 13, 2006 11:48 AM (aEgEZ)
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The Quran, the Old Testament, and the New: Responding to Reader Love Mail
I got this letter from a Muslim urging me to refrain from making fun of his religion (scroll down), so I felt it necessary to respond publicly.
As regular readers know, I'm totally cool with Muslims. It's Islam I don't like. As a non-Muslim, I can't know what true Islam is---just as a non-Catholic and non-Protestant I can't know what true Christianity is. That's an internal debate that you Muslims need to be having (and are having) with yourselves.
And even though I don't consider myself a traditional Christian, I do consider myself a follower of Jesus and I've read the Bible dozens of times. So, while I'm not an expert on true 'Christianity', I do have a fairly in depth knowledge of the Old and New Testaments. I do have an opinion, then, on what the Bible says and means.
I have also read the Quran. All of it. Several times. I've also read many of the hadiths (traditions). So, I'm not an expert about true Islam, but I do believe I have enough information to have an opinion on what the Quran says and means.
So, here are my opinions about them.
Old Testament: Pretty bloody horrifying. Luckily, Judaism does not treat the Old Testament as the literal word of God. Further, as the story of the Old Testament unfolds, Jehovah seems to get a lot nicer. Good on you LORD for growing up. (If you don't think that God can handle criticism, then I'd suggest you don't know too many Jews.)
New Testament: Pretty cool, except for all the pacifism stuff. Jesus seems to clearly be a pacifist in my reading. Which is fine, as long as Christians were in the minority. But once Christians became a majority--in other words, once they controlled the state--pacifism doesn't seem all that great to me. Luckily, theology was able to take care of dangerous pacifism. Further, no theologian I know of treats the New Testament as the literal word of God. Even fundamentalists only claim that it was inspired of God--that the words are those of Paul, not God's.
Quran: Pretty frightening. Not only does it have all of the bad stuff from the Old Testament, but Islam treats the words of the Koran as the literal word of God. These are God's words, not Muhammed's (or Gabriel's). The Quran is not a collection of stories, but, as Reza Aslan says, it is the "Divine monologue."
If these are God's words, then I'm a monkey's uncle. Either I am very wrong about God being a pretty cool dude, or the God described in the Quran is not God at all. In fact, Allah, if we take him at his word (as he himself reveals it in the Quran), is an asshole. He's worse than Hitler.
So, I won't apologize for making fun of the Quran. I do not believe it is the word of God. If I'm wrong, and Allah is God, then he certainly does not deserve to be worshipped or followed. Further, I do not believe that it has any redeeming value whatsoever. I do not believe any of it. None.
Hadiths: Don't teach us much, except that Muhammed is not someone I would like to hang out with. He was a pedophile. He marries a 6 year old, but we are to believe that it's okay, because he really doesn't have sex with Aisha until she's 9. Yeah, that makes everything better. He is a genocidal maniac. He wipes out entire tribes. He's a fascist. He thinks it's cool to kill any one who gives up the faith. So, no I don't believe he was a Prophet.
There is no God named Allah and Muhammed is not a Prophet.
Incidentally, I don't believe Sidhartha actually found enlightenment under the Bodi tree. But I have a great deal of respect for the Buddha. I don't believe that Baha'u'llah was a Prophet. But I do have a great deal of respect for the content of his writings and the Baha'i faith.
Muhammed, I have no respect for. It's not so much that I reject him as a Prophet--there are a lot of people who I don't accept as a Prophet, but whom I respect--as it is that he was a sick S.O.B. who also had a lot of destructive things to say.
If you want to follow Muhammed that's your right. But it is also my right to criticize him. If you want me to refrain from criticizing him, then I'd first suggest that you take away my right to bear arms. Because, you will find that I will give up both of those rights over my cold, dead body.
If you want me to end my criticism, then you'll have to first convince me that Muhammed and the Quran are worth respect. Since I've read a lot of the hadiths, and the entire Quran, I know better.
If it makes you feel better, if your Quran actually doesn't have all the bad stuff in it, and you don't take as authoritative the stuff about Muhammed screwing a child and engaging in genocide, then I'm totaly hip to your Islam. But, then, your Islam is not traditional Islam. In that case, I'm not criticizing Islam as you know it, or the Quran as you know it, or Muhammed as you know him, but I am criticizing some other Islam, some other Quran, and some other Muhammed.
If such is the case, what is the problem?
My response is below. UPDATE: Here is Bluto's response. Here is Howie's response.
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Posted by: Rusty at
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I disagree somewhat that Jesus was a pacifist. He was very active and in order to fulfill his role he followed the Fathers will which was for him to be crucified and battle and conquer death. As I read it Jesus did not want this but submitted to his fathers will which was to be led like a lamb to the slaughter. He is only pacifist becuase that is the fathers will and the time has not yet come.
Posted by: Howie at March 03, 2006 12:22 PM (D3+20)
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The Quran is not a collection of stories, but, as Reza Aslan says, it is the "Divine monologue."
Are they so called, because Muhammad spoke them out of his Vagina?
Posted by: dave at March 03, 2006 12:35 PM (CcXvt)
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Interesting, some pacifists quote Jesus pretty directly, with his "turn the other cheek" thing.
But a slap on the face isn't a knife in the gut, and Jesus didn't seem to think that military service disqualified people from being righteous.
On the other side of things, some second-century wag named Marcion actually tried to teach a "Two Gods" thing, with one the Old Testament God of vengeance and bloodshed, and on the New Testament God, the Father that Jesus talked about.
But Marcion had to butcher up the Gospels and the Letters of Paul to support his thesis. You see, they're riddled with quotations from the Old Testament.
In the end, believers who read the un-edited versions of the Gospels rejected Marcion and his teaching. They also had the writings of Peter, John, James, Jude, and the mystery character who penned Hebrews to work with. Those all spoke to the "old covenant/new covenant" division, but didn't feel a need to separate the Father from the dangerous, jealous God of the Old Testament.
Marcion eventually ended up with the Gnostics, who tried to use Jesus as the key to some mystical-secret-knowledge rather than as the Savior long promised to Israel.
I think it's an open question whether God "grew up", or the Hebrew conception of God went through a maturation process. For all we know, He needed to tell people about judgement, sin and evil before He needed to tell them about grace, mercy, and forgiveness.
But the Psalmists knew, centuries before Jesus, that God's judgement had to be tempered by His Mercy. They knew that if everyone was judged according to their deeds, then everyone was damned.
I don't know enough about Islam to agree or disagree with you about it. But the thought that the Written Book itself is Absolute Literal Truth From the Mouth of God, and not a human response to Divine Revelation is pretty hard to deal with. I've also been told that it's missing that element of relationship. Heck, Moses didn't just command obedience to God, he encouraged love towards God.
From what I hear, Muhammed never heard anything about people loving God.
Posted by: karrde at March 03, 2006 01:43 PM (65ApY)
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Jesus was peaceful, but I don't think He was a pacifist. One needs only look at where He ran the moneychangers out of the temple to see that He didn't mind taking matters into his own hands (even slightly violently so) when the situation required it. But He only used the amount of force necessary - overturning tables and brandishing a whip - to accomplish His goal. He didn't hurt or kill anyone in the process.
Still, this was an excellent post!
Posted by: reverse_vampyr at March 03, 2006 01:54 PM (Ns5kk)
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Jesus never says what to do if they slap the other cheek too.
Posted by: Howie at March 03, 2006 02:10 PM (D3+20)
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"Turn the other cheek" means to stand up to your persecutors, show them the fullness of your humanity, and challenge them to strike you again now that they know you are righteous.
Posted by: Jimmy the Dhimmi at March 03, 2006 02:11 PM (+BgKd)
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All,
The point is that someone reading the New Testament, without the temperment of years of theology, would become a pacifist. That is the LITERAL reading of it. Thus, the fundamentalist Christian who rejects Christian tradition and theology, might very well become a pacifist. Certainly there is nothing in the New Testament where Jesus leads his followers to conquer Jerusalem because he's pissed that the Jews rejected him--something that the hadiths say is exaclty what Muhammed did.
I don't believe Jesus was a pacifist, either, but that is not based on the Bible.
Posted by: Rusty at March 03, 2006 02:21 PM (JQjhA)
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And that's the very example you need. Jesus felt that the moneychangers were desecrating the temple and then overturned the tables. He didn't strap Semtex to his belt and run into the crowd while ululating in madness. I have news for you, Hajji... no Muslim that killed innocents stands before God in heaven. The Koran is full of that (women and children of tribes slaughtered mercilessly), presented as exemplary muslims - it is no wonder that your youth blow themselves up in hotel lobbies. Islam is no religion of peace - it wants to subjugate the world. It is barbarism trying to put up an illusion of civility to that end.
Posted by: Ernie Oporto at March 03, 2006 02:24 PM (/lpvu)
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I may not feel the need to post as often anymore. The most horrific human behavior in the last 10 years or so was the Rwanda tragedy. This occured in an African country that is 90% christian. I think this illustrates that culture/society plays a very substantial role in group behavior. If you were to go back further then you might point to the Pol Pot / Khmer Rouge. They were overwhelmingly buddhist.
Posted by: john ryan at March 03, 2006 03:08 PM (TcoRJ)
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John is still the apologist. Why don't you become a Muslim, John, or perhaps you already have. Rwanda is not 90% Christian, and the Cambodians of the Pol Pot regime were not overwhelmingly Buddist. Geez, do you believe your own shit, John?
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 03, 2006 03:15 PM (rUyw4)
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Turning the other cheek means you should seek to turn your enemy into a friend. That's what Jesus meant.
Paul alluded to the same when he said: "But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head."
It's like when somebody curses you, and you respond with a soft word, it turneth away wrath. That's what "turning the other cheek" means. It doesn't mean you can't defend yourself with violence. Jesus himself said: "But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, 'And he was counted among the lawless'; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled." They said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." He replied, "It is enough."
Must all be read in context to get full meaning, of course. Jesus told Peter to put away his sword because he (Jesus) was MEANT to go to the cross. But to Luke he warns him to prepare for the coming persecution. It self-defensive though, not offensive like Mohammed.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 03, 2006 03:18 PM (8e/V4)
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John,
Agreed, but Pol Pot didn't kill in the name of religion. Islam isn't the only bad ideology out there.
Most dangerous book ever: Das Kapital
Second: Quran
Posted by: Rusty at March 03, 2006 03:39 PM (JQjhA)
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I love to argue, but sometimes a picture is just so much clearer. Some might have seen here earlier Derek's lovely portrait of Mohammed. Today, rather than engage in anything beyond my usual, I'd like to turn your attention briefly to how I feel in response to this problem of Islam:
http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/
Please be happy in posting this link and graphic as you will.
Posted by: dag at March 03, 2006 04:19 PM (xJEf+)
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I want to know when Rwanda became 90% Christian and Pol Pot became a Buddist, because this is a pile of bullshit that John has laid.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 03, 2006 05:25 PM (rUyw4)
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This Hajji guy likely never read a single word of the Bible - from the Bible. What he has likely read is the bastardized version of Bible stories Muhammed put in the Koran. Muhammed had to say the Bible was corrupted so he could change the stories and portray the characters as full of wrath and the first Muslims in order to justify his own actions. I mean, c'mon, Adam was a warrior and had his own calvary? Who was he fighting?
And this Hajji guy thinks that the first step to working together is to do as he says and get rid of the page about the Quran. Or what?
Posted by: Oyster at March 03, 2006 06:53 PM (YudAC)
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I completely agree that Mohammed, if he even existed, was a fake, a pedophile, a terrorist and just a plain ass-hole.
Practising Muslims should be expelled from the western world by boat, plane or rope.
Posted by: DT at March 03, 2006 08:20 PM (ntCeu)
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my god is right, yours is wrong. because you read both books several times...
religion is so fucking ridiculous...
Religion is a haven for the lazy looking for an excuse for not getting along.
Your hate rant is fucking boring and screams "I'm pissed off because a Muslim got promoted before I did at McDonalds"
*yawn*
Posted by: THE hadith at March 03, 2006 10:55 PM (QFlYr)
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But John Ryan isn't trying to "pin" anything on Christians. It only seems that way.
John, if you "may not feel the need to post as often anymore", don't let the door hit you in the arse. However, when you have something concrete with plenty of corroborating links and data, let us know. I'm sure you can find something. I'm sure you can find some aberrant behavior in some corner of the earth that can be pinned on Christians thereby allowing you to condemn everyone here for whatever it is you think we're all so guilty of.
Posted by: Oyster at March 04, 2006 07:54 AM (YudAC)
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Yikes, only a matter of time before we had Blogiquette. So we have to have links in order to be "real" posters?
you and your little clubhouse mentality.
But Christianity is riddled with violence and murder. But of course, you'd actually have to OPEN YOUR EYES, instead of hiding in your cocoon of religious self-righteousness.
MULTIPLE examples:
Most recent - Nigerian christians murdering muslims.
But lets review:
-Rampant murder during the Crusades "in the name of God"
-Indescriminant killing of peasants all through Europe during times of economic stresses by the clergy in the middle ages
-Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisition in 1231. Untold thousands burned at the stake.
- The Thirty Years war in the 1600's which left millions slaughtered in Europe.
- The Catholic slaughter of the Huguenots of France. Pope Gregory XIII wrote to France's King Charles IX: "We rejoice with you that with the help of God you have relieved the world of these wretched heretics."
- The witchhunts of the 1700s where thousands were tortured, hanged, or burned alive for heresy
- The Taiping rebellion, where millions of Chinese were murdered in the name of the Christian god.
- The hatred, terrorism, and murder carried out by the northern Ireland "Intifada".
Or perhaps you would like to read through the following books:
Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History.
James A. Haught, Holy Horrors.
J.N. Hillgarth, Christianity and Paganism, 350-750.
Edward Peters, Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe.
R. Dean Peterson, A Concise History of Christianity.
Posted by: THE Hadith at March 04, 2006 01:01 PM (QFlYr)
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People, people, people... "turn the other cheek" means that we should not react in anger or seek vengeance, but it should not in any way be taken to mean that we should stand by while murdering animals kill and maim innocent people. Remember that Jesus said that he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 04, 2006 04:20 PM (0yYS2)
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the animals who commit terrorism are not Muslims, but Islam has no ecclesiastical process to expel heretics. Catholic Clerics who reject Vatican II can be excommunicated (and have been. I went to a heretical Latin mass in the 1970s in France). Pity the Roman Catholics are not so aggressive in exommunicating pedophile priests.
Hanabi Islam, as practiced and pushed by the Wahabi heretics, are well funded, but they ignore everything except the Quran and Hadith. They lose the mysticism of the Sufi, which is responsible for most of the conversions to Islam outside of Arabia and Iran.
A Christianity limited to the New Testament would lose the Irish Monastics, the Scholastics, the writings of Augustine, the good works of the Franciscans, the Reformation, the logic and theology of the Jesuits, the modern literary criticism of the last century, the charismatic aspects of the Assemblies of G-d, the philosophy of Hegel, Decartes, Kierkegard and the example of Dietrich Bonhoffer and Pastor Niemoller. That would be a poor Christianity indeed.
Accordingly, Islam limited to the Hadith and Quran are also poor things.
The Romans, though pagan had a well developed system of Virtues, both private virtues appropriate to a citizen, and public virtues appropriate to a community. All religions, as they mature, begin to move away from their scriptures, to an appreciation of virtues as a useful foundation for people living together. If they do not mature, they destroy themselves by refusing to learn.
The Hanabi-Wahabi developed their heresy in the 18th century, and since that time had almost succeeded in destroying civilized society, until the discovery of oil on the Arabian penninsula. With that kind of capital influx, the Wahabi were able to overcome their disfunctional society to some extent. Alas, due to the influx of petro dollars, and the ability to distribute their pernicious doctrine to pilgrims during the Haj, the Wahabi has become the public face of Islam, and has not had to reform. It is my hope that the conflict that Wahabi doctrines are forcing will lead to emprisonment of Wahabi Imans, and destruction or significant diminution of their horrible influence. But you have to fight to win, and Europe is not helping much.
Posted by: Don Meaker at March 04, 2006 10:38 PM (CCwl2)
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"the Crusades"
lol! These Lefties simply can't avoid the unintentional self-parody.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at March 04, 2006 11:25 PM (xpnBq)
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Being curious about the religious makeup of Rwanda I checked the CIA World Factbook (scroll down to People/Religions):
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rw.html
Roman Catholic 56.5%, Protestant 26%, Adventist 11.1%, Muslim 4.6%, indigenous beliefs 0.1%, none 1.7% (2001)
(Note: I am in no way associating the attempted genocide in Rwanda with religion, just thought the data was interesting.)
The comment that was made about the Khmer Rouge being primarily Bhuddist seems off base however. Excerpted from Wikipedia (questionable content error?):
"In power, the Khmer Rouge carried out a radical program that included isolating the country from foreign influence, closing schools, hospitals and factories, abolishing banking, finance and currency,
outlawing all religions, confiscating all private property and relocating people from urban areas to collective farms where forced labor was widespread. The purpose of this policy was to turn Cambodians into "old people" through agricultural labour. It resulted in massive deaths through executions, work exhaustion, illness, and starvation."
Posted by: LC CanForce 101 at March 05, 2006 01:54 AM (3smJS)
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Hey Don, your apologetics and attempts at appeasement and understanding of the murderous scum we call muslims won't change the fact that they will still rape your wife and/or daughter while you are made to watch, and then cut off your head. They are vermin and must be exterminated.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 05, 2006 10:26 AM (0yYS2)
Posted by: Pamela at June 30, 2006 07:11 AM (ITTo/)
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March 02, 2006
The Muslim Manifesto
Via NRO.
All I want to say about this now is what I said on my blog about the word "manifesto." It just sounds so....Marx. Kaczynski, even.
Anyway, read it for yourself.
more...
Posted by: Vinnie at
06:55 PM
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While I'm encouraged to hear the voice of the "moderates" I am also familiar with the concepts of Taqiyya and kitman.
I think I will wait for the action parts, the anti-terrorism/violence demonstrations, the call to dispel or incarcerate radical imam's, and informing authorities of calls for terrorism from local mosques.
Posted by: dave at March 02, 2006 07:19 PM (CcXvt)
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Seriously, since when was it the obligation of moderate/liberal/secular/whatever Muslims to "speak" out"?...To justify themselves whenever bad behavior is committed by others who happen to be Muslim?
As a contemporary Catholic, I'm not going to justify my identity because of the multiple crimes done to humanity by the COLLECTIVE Church since the age of the Inquisitions, and I shouldnÂ’t have to.
As a contemporary Christian, I'm not expected to justify my faith because of the Ku Klux Klan—America's own historic (and ongoing!) concoction of religious fundamentalism and terrorism—and its legacy of committing and getting away with the vilest crimes on the basis of biblical scripture. I won't even have to offer an explanation in light of the resurgence of the new "Christian-Right," a la ol' schoolers Robertson and Falwell, and their silly "fatwa" death prayers on Supreme court justices that aren't conservative enough, or South American presidents that are too left-wing for their liking.
Congratulations, now we got Western Muslims feeding into the silliest with the unspoken obligatory insistence that they're moderate, liberal or secular which is sad and isn't necessary. It's not like this post 9/11 haze, where non-Muslims self-proclaim an "instant Islam expertise" (just add water and stir), wasn't already lame for 5 years running now. Let it go already.
Posted by: Mason at March 02, 2006 10:04 PM (T/kas)
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As a Catholic, you're probably aware of the reputation of Catholic priests being involved in pederasty , due to the vast amounts of convictions, TV coverage, etc.
I would hope that if someone likened a Catholic church as "sodomy school" you'd say something to the effect of
"that's only a small amount of Catholic Priests when you look at the big picture, Father Mike is a nice guy, and he keeps his hands out of young Timmy's shorts" that isn't justification, that's your thought that in your experience your religion isn't a homosexual precursor. How about if one of those priests comes on TV and says "Jesus said love the little Children, and that is what I'm doing" would you defend the true interpretation? speak out against him?
See, when four thousand terrorist acts [and counting] have occurred since 9/11 and the people committing these act says their religion commands it, then when hundreds of influential Imam's say that terrorism is OK, perhaps I want to hear the people who oppose their views. call me crazy, like that.
Posted by: dave at March 02, 2006 10:45 PM (CcXvt)
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What is this? Muslim Obedience School? We rub their noses in some mess. They react violently. We say, "Oh, we didn't like the way you reacted. Let's try it again. We're going to show you the cartoons again. But this time you're going to be nice about it. Be nice, now." This is like those scenes in the movies when the psychopath is finally cornered by the cop, and he laughs in his face, telling him all the juicy details of the rape, then telling the cop, "And you can't touch me!" Be honest, dear reader. Don't you just love it when the cop blows him away? I think we're just provoking the same visceral reaction with the Muslim Obedience School approach, no matter how high and mighty you make it sound. To my ear, it sounds phony, hypocritical, arrogantly smug, and sadistically unbending. One of our 10 Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Take the Name of The Lord Thy God in Vain. Just because we assure ourselves that it is perfectly legal to do exactly what this commandment forbids does not mean that Muslims are going to relish our taking the same liberties with their Prophet. I realize that under the rules of your Muslim Obedience School every time this happens all Muslims should not only remain obedient and well-mannered but also vociferously denounce any Muslim who does not remain obedient, but I think this is unrealistic. Think smart. If you really want dialogue, this is not the starting point. To go around preaching that it is -- is sheer hypocrisy.
Posted by: john at March 03, 2006 02:58 AM (Uotmn)
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Well well, it looks like we've got another snivelling muslim apologist bitchboy. Welcome, mason, and prepare for an ass-ripping when I get home from work you faithless, treasonous piece of shit.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 03, 2006 05:56 AM (0yYS2)
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John, the problem with your argument is that Muslims didn't become outraged nor did they react violently until they were deliberately stirred to action by their own Imams. Can't you see the Pavlovian aspect to this? We didn't press their button. Their own "leaders" did. The violence started
before the cartoons were even reprinted.
Quit trying to justify it. When was the last time your nose got rubbed in something and you burned down an embassy or made explicit death threats? Should we have been "understanding" if you had? No one is saying they had no right to be offended. We're saying they had no right to get violent. Your obedience school analogy is way off base. You're twisting the issue. Like too many these days, you're deflecting blame away from those who willfully became violent and those who truly provoked them.
Posted by: Oyster at March 03, 2006 06:31 AM (YudAC)
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John,
I will be direct.I don't think I have EVER hated anyone for their ABSOLUTE ignorance and stupidity as I do people who gag up the vile,half-digested,bile-drenched feces such as your above post.You are a complete dumb-ass,and the temptation to treat you the same way that the extremist Muslims treat the infidels is SOOOOO strong.ONLY WE DON'T DO IT.I would explain it further--I just don't have time for this.
Posted by: David Bosworth at March 03, 2006 08:56 AM (o/AqI)
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Thank you, David, as John Ryan is one of the apologists for the radical Muslims. Let me give you a clue, John. The cartoons were drawn for a news story. That story was about the self-censorship being practiced in Denmark due to the FEAR people had of offending Muslims. Fear as in the possiblity of being MURDERED if you happened to offend one or more of these people.
The real problem is that no one can possibly know from day-to-day as to what offends these people, as they constantly expand the list of offenses. When your very life offends them, John, is that when you wish to stand up and say stop? Not me, buddy, I've had enough already.
Posted by: jesusland joe at March 03, 2006 10:16 AM (rUyw4)
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John, you want to quote scripture? What about Thou Shalt Not Kill? Or turn the other cheek? Or how about love thy neighbor as thyself? Any of these ring a bell?
When Moses came down from Mt. Sinai and found the people worshipping the "gods" they had fashioned from their gold, did he burn all their possessions and kill them? No, his anger was directed at that which had offended God -- the graven idols. And in his anger, he offended God further - by smashing the Ten Commandments. As punishment for this act, was Moses killed? No. Moses' punishment was that he was never allowed to set foot in the promised land. And the people who had offended God with their blaspemy? Were they killed by God? No. They were made to wander for months in search of the promised land. Yet, even in this punishment, they were provided for. They could always find just enough food and water for sustenence. They were being taught a lesson.
Tell me, John, what lesson exactly are the radical Muslims teaching?
Posted by: Sly2017 at March 03, 2006 10:33 AM (UADHi)
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as for this manifesto... blah, blah, blah Islam is a religion of peace, blah blah blah, terrorists are not true muslims, blah blah blah, the Koran condemns violence, blah blah blah, Mohammad was a ompassionate human being, blah
PUKE!!!!
Posted by: Jimmy the Dhimmi at March 03, 2006 11:00 AM (+BgKd)
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"Ass-rippings"? Internet "ass-rippings." Oooooooh. I fear you. Really.
Suck a liberal Muslim's hairy, sweaty left nut, ya slackjawed momo.
Mason
"Well well, it looks like we've got another snivelling muslim apologist bitchboy. Welcome, mason, and prepare for an ass-ripping when I get home from work you faithless, treasonous piece of shit."
Posted by: Mason at March 03, 2006 04:21 PM (T/kas)
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Catch Osama Bin Laden and all the rest of them. Put 'em away. I lost people in 9-11, too. But until we catch these guys, why do stupid things like republish cartoons? You know this only helps the very people you hate recruit more terrorists. So why do it when you don't have Osama? The Danes did it and got royally spanked. And there ain't nothin' they can do about it except whine about how people shouldn't be violent. Hey I get it - nobody should be violent for any reason. They have to turn the other cheek. But guess what, people don't do that. They smack you and so far you haven't dodged their blows. You don't have Osama. You don't have the criminal offenders who torched the embassies. You hate the imams. But then you're not stopping them from recruiting more terrorists. But you're republishing cartoons giving the imams exactly what they need -- does that sound bright to you? Get a grip. You have not had much success in smoking out these terrorists and we're all in the trenches together here and all you want to do is jump out of the trench and moon the mosque. You're stuck on stupid and putting other Americans in harm's way. Keep out of my line of vision.
Posted by: john at March 03, 2006 05:47 PM (Uotmn)
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I'll treat you in full later on mason, but suffice to say for now, were anyone inclined to suck balls, they'd have to take a miss on you, as you have none.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at March 04, 2006 05:43 AM (0yYS2)
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