September 28, 2005
Did Castro Kill Salvador Allende?
Interesting theory. I'd love if it were true. Any conversation with a Leftist longer than 10 minutes and Salvador Allende's name will come up in the long list of bad things America has done in the past. Usually inserted somewhere between 'East Timor' and 'illegal bombing of Cambodia', but always right before 'support for the Shah'--meant to prove that policy X (insert policy here) is also
bad and therefore America 'is the real biggest terrorist in the world'--yada, yada, yada.
From Swimming Against the Red Tide:
The fact is that Allende was not a suicide, he was not killed by the military that took the power in september, 1973. During their assault against La Moneda palace, Chilean president was cowardly murdered by one of the Cuba agent that were in charge of his protection
Go check out the full translation of the original article that he has
posted here.
He also links to this article about a new book by Christopher Andrews and Vasili Mitrokhin The World Was Going Our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World. The book claims that now open Soviet archives show that the much of the right-wing paranoia about self-proclaimed indigenous movementes really being directed from Moscow were, in fact, not so much paranoia as based in fact.
The book claims:
• The KGB documents record actual and proposed payments to Chile's Salvador Allende totaling $420,000 both before and after his election as president in 1970.
• Costa Rica's José ''Pepe'' Figueres received $300,000 from the KGB for his 1970 presidential campaign and $10,000 afterward.
• The KGB ''trained and financed'' the Sandinistas who seized the National Palace in Managua and dozens of hostages in 1978. A senior KGB official was briefed on the plan on the eve of the raid, led by Edén Pastora, also known as Commander Zero...
The book describes Allende as ''by far the most important of the KGB's confidential contacts in South America,'' because he was a democratically-elected Marxist and Castro's ally. In KGB lexicon, a confidential contact is more like a friendly source, not an agent.
But Allende's KGB file says the agency maintained ''systematic contact'' with him since 1961, the book adds. One report says, "He stated his willingness to cooperate on a confidential basis . . . since he considered himself a friend of the Soviet Union.''
So while the Nixon administration and CIA were working diligently to prevent his election in 1970, and to oust him afterward, the KGB also was working hard to put him and keep him in power, the book says.
This is surely going to ruffle a few feathers!
To be honest, I'm not up to speed on the Pinochet junta. Too many people I respect seem to think that toppling Allende was not a good thing. So, regardless of who pulled the trigger, the fact remains that the U.S. actively helped in the overthrow of a democratically elected President. Just because he was a Commie does not mean he was a threat to the U.S. Remember, during the same period Italy had communist governments yet remained loyal to NATO.
I'm open, though, to hearing opposing viewpoints.
Hat tip h0mi who found the link at Babalu Blog.
Posted by: Rusty at
05:18 PM
| Comments (8)
| Add Comment
Post contains 544 words, total size 4 kb.
1
Dear Rusty:
A fact that you don't know is that the Chilean congress made a official announcement to the military to do something to stop Allende's government to be a proxy of Fidel Castro: many Cuban agents were in Chile (more than thousand of them) to lead the civil Chilean society to a burst.
It will make possible to turn a democratic government into a leftist dictatoship.
The information is right here.
You see: Pinochet followed orders from the Chilean Chamber of Deputies!!!
Don't blame it on CIA or USA.
http://www.economiaysociedad.com/carta11_ingles.html
"In effect, President Allende became a tyrant when he broke his solemn oath to respect the Constitution and the Chilean laws. There are numerous evidences to that effect (including a clear statement of the Supreme Court), but the most important one--and widely unknown outside of Chile--is the momentous Agreement of 23 August 1973 of the Chamber of Deputies (the Lower House of the Chilean Congress), which I have translated and posted as "The Declaration of Breakdown of Chilean Democracy".
In this Agreement, it is presented a list of the legal and constitutional violations of President Allende's government, and it is agreed to "make representations" of this "grave breach of the legal and constitutional order of the Republic" to, among other authorities, "the Armed Forces". At the same time it agrees to "make representations to them that, by virtue of their function, of their oath to remain faithful to the Constitution and the law, ... it is up to them to put immediate end to all the situations referred to above, which infringe the Constitution and the law"
Posted by: luis afonso at September 28, 2005 06:42 PM (5rO9J)
2
So, in effect, are you saying that the overthrow of Allende was good? Since Pinochet put the country under martial law for--how long? ten years?--wouldn't that be a more clear case of abuse?
Like I said, though, I'm not 100% up to speed on this.
Posted by: Rusty at September 28, 2005 06:49 PM (JQjhA)
3
Castro is responible for the shoot down of two unamred aircraft of BROTHERS TO THE RESCUE and still liberals including that idiot JIMMY CARTER wants better relationship with CUBA SCREW CASTRO AND SCREW CARTER
Posted by: sandpiper at September 28, 2005 08:12 PM (as4nC)
4
all democracies are not equally good. Like when Islamists win an election in Algeria. That is part of the reason that we do not live in a democracy, the founding fathers felt (rightly in my view) that there was too much danger in allowing rule by a simple maiority of the mases. So that is why our government is a republic not a democracy.
Posted by: john Ryan at September 28, 2005 09:24 PM (ads7K)
5
Dr Shackleford, At no time in the history of Italy has it had a communist national government. There have been, it is true, regional governments and cities dominated by the Reds, but the old joke was that the PCI didn't want power, because then THEY would be blamed for all the problems!
Posted by: Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm at September 29, 2005 02:58 AM (vrziv)
6
What am I missing? Castro and Allende were both communist. So, what was Castro's motive? Seems Pinochet and the US both had a greater motive than Castro.
Posted by: Doug Purdie at September 29, 2005 04:14 PM (00DOn)
7
Primacy Doug, primacy. Castro, like all other megalomaniacal psychopath dictators, brooks no rivals. He liked being Russia's main Latin American lackey, because it made him Important, but now, he's just pathetic, so he's letting his own houseboy Chavez play the dictator for a while.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 29, 2005 07:49 PM (0yYS2)
8
I linked this story to my Russian History Blog at
http://russian-history-blog.blogspot.com/2005/12/mitrokhin-ii-other-revelations.html
Posted by: John Potter at December 06, 2005 03:52 PM (SfS9v)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 23, 2005
Antisemetism and Soft Bigotry Against Muslims
I listened to George Galloway on Michael Medved's show the other day. While he seemed indignant when Medved was about to accuse him of antisemetism (which Medved never got around to doing) it is clear the Galloway, and many on the Left are, in fact, antisemites. He kept obsessing about 'Israeli publications' and went on and on about Sharon's Zionism--without ever mentioning that Zionism has historically been a Leftist movement and that Israel's wars with its neighbors have invariably been led by Labour. Zionism, then, is not a right-wing movement.
George Galloway is an antisemite, plain and simple.
One does not need to believe in the 'Final Solution' to be an antisemite. The core of antisemetism is not 'hatred of Jews', rather, it is the belief that Jews are responsible for the ills of the world. Read Mein Kampf and it becomes apparent that Hitler actually believed in a Jewish conspiracy. Speaking of the Social Democratic Press of his time Hitler writes:
From publishers on down, they were all Jews.
Hitler could not accept democratic liberalism because it was just a front for Jews. How is this different than George Galloway who now believes the Labour Party is a front for Zionism? That wars are fought for Zionism? That the reason the Arab world has made so little progress is Zionism?
Galloway may not wish the final solution, but at his core he hates the thought of Jews with any amount of power. Jews are fine, if they know their place.
There is another way in which world wide antisemetism raises its ugly head: the double standard. Jews are expected to be paragons of virtue.
Every. Single. One.
When a single Jew commits an act of terrorism, for instance, the state of Israel is blamed--even when Israel arrests the man and there are mass protests against him. At the same time, when a Muslim commits an act of terrorism in Palestine, and the Palestinian Authority does not act against him, and there are mass rallies to support him, the world turns the other way or worse--condemns Israel as the 'root problem'.
The world's antisemetism has an inverse corollary: the soft bigotry of low expectations from Muslims. Muslims, it is believed, are incapable of acting like civilized human beings.
Charles Johnson made a similar point yesterday:
IÂ’m reading this again, and wondering where the hell is the worldÂ’s outrage about this? Newsweek prints a false rumor that a Koran was dunked in a toilet, and the entire planet goes nuts. Hamas announces that theyÂ’re going to turn a Jewish house of worship into a memorial to mass murder ... and the silence is absolutely deafening.
Today,
The Astute Blogger opines:
The fact that the world EXPECTS Muslims to go nuts and run amok in a violent rampage based on a RUMOR about a Koran being flushed down a toilet, AND that the world says NOTHING when Muslims torch and descecrate synagogues and then publicly announces that they'ee gonna turn them into a museum glorifying genocide, PROVES that most people are CONVINCED that most Muslims are uncontrollably violent, racist gencodial maniacs. They've come to expect the worst from Muslims.
He is absolutely right. To hold Muslims to a lower standard is a form of bigotry. It is the bigotry that assumes that Muslims are something like children, not capable of proper behavior.
Let us not fall victim to this soft bigotry against Muslims. We should not hold them to a higher standard than we hold ourselves, but neither should we hold them to a lower standard.
UPDATE: More on George Galloway's possible perjury before the U.S. Senate here.
Posted by: Rusty at
09:02 AM
| Comments (12)
| Add Comment
Post contains 612 words, total size 4 kb.
1
So Galloway hates da JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSsssssss!
All lefties despise da JOOOOOOSSSssss ! What else is new.
Lefties hate America, Jooooos, Walmart, Capitalism, Jooooos, Bush, Blacks, NASCAR(Fuck Yeah),rednecks, COORS Lite, ToBy Keith, Bruce Willis & Steak. Oh, and JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSsssssssssssAH! And Christiansssssssss....
Is it any Suuuuprise that Galloway is a lefties wet dream? Huffington is all moist in the diaper with the prospect of having this "hero" to her home for dinner, fawning and lite petting.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 23, 2005 09:21 AM (5ceWd)
2
I also heard the interview. Galloway was no different than a comment troll, throwing insults and weird conspiracies, and then when Medved would start to strike back, going all contemplative and wondering why Medved "was so hostile".
A real bag of human filth.
As to whether Galloway wants the final solution...
Maybe not today, but when he gets his wish and the Jews "know their place", maybe he decides an even better place would be the inside of a cattle car. I think it's happened enough times that we can call it a trend.
Posted by: a4g at September 23, 2005 09:42 AM (2GSc/)
3
OT:
Am I the only one getting tired by the conspiracy nuts who think the WTC were destroyed by Bush & Co?
I can't even read the comments about movies on IMDB without idiots constantly putting forth theories, each one wackier than the last?
It would be all well and good if they ever stuck to a theory, but the same people that claim the U.S Government can pull a plan worthy of "Dr. Evil" with the destruction in plain site of the WTC / Pentagon on one board, then go to another and complain about the gross incompetence of the Hurricane relief, and talk about how the Government cannot deal with an emergency on the scale of September 11th? which is it retards?
/rant off.
Posted by: dave at September 23, 2005 10:40 AM (CcXvt)
4
Wait, you mean there are theories that DON'T attribute the WTC collapse to Bushitler? /sarcasm
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 23, 2005 11:18 AM (JQjhA)
5
These quotes by Galloway and some postings on DU following his testimony before the Senate are really alarming. Is the mainstream left really embracing the kind of trash people like Galloway are dishing out? If so this really is a cause for concern. Not just in this country, but more so in Europe. Mainstream liberalism is going off the deep end.
“Of course, the past masters of government sponsored terrorism were the Zionists, who created the condition in the Arab countries, and in some European countries to stampede the Jewish populations out of the countries they had been living in for many hundreds years and get them into a Zionist state.” Galloway
“The Zionist movement, as it is well documented, funded Hitler before World War Two and many of the figurehead of Zionism were not and are not Jews.” Galloway
And these commemts On Democratic underground regarding Galloway”s testimony before the Senate:
Can We Make This Man A Citizen? - Unbelievable
mhr May-17-05 12:46 PM #1
This is the most beautiful thing I've heard in years.
Warpy May-17-05 01:04 PM #16
Would he want to be one?
NewJeffCT May-17-05 01:21 PM #31
I nominate that we make Galloway an honorary American citizen.
brainshrub
May-17-05 04:44 PM #105
Better yet make him an honorary DUer. He is our kind of
jwirr May-17-05 06:00 PM #132
I Second
Snotcicles May-17-05 08:13 PM #161
Don't think he'd want to
tavalon May-17-05 11:51 PM #197
seriously...
imax2268 May-19-05 12:01 AM #275
Thanks for the link !
REACTIVATED IN CT May-17-05 12:47 PM #2
Ditto! I just sent him the following e-mail:
mom cat May-18-05 08:26 AM #237
Posted by: Brad at September 23, 2005 11:30 AM (3OPZt)
6
So let me get this straight. Zureikat is Galloway's "friend", in fact, he runs Galloway's charity org, Miriam Appeal. But he has to call his "friend" to whom he has bequeathed much responsibility and ask a very basic question,
"Well, I'm trying to reach him to ask him if he's [Fawaz Zureikat] ever been involved in oil deals because I don't know the answer to that." He doesn't know? Trying to reach him? [*coughbullshitcough*]
Then he says,
"I certainly know that he has been a supplier of very many things to very many ministries in Iraq, in the old regime through the Oil for Food programme from the Agriculture Ministry to the Trade Ministry and many others." But he doesn't know if Zureikat had any deals in oil?
Yet, he told Senator Coleman that not only did he know that, he was quite public about that fact? And now Seixon has uncovered that he "didn't" emblazon it in his literature?
He also admits to Jerry Paxman of the BBC,
"I had access, as you very well know, at the highest level of Iraq's political leadership."
Sounds to me as if he was likely in the cookie jar up to his gorgeous elbows.
And the leftward kooks want to make him a citizen?
I know, I ask too many questions. If it wasn't so serious, I'd laugh.
Posted by: Oyster at September 23, 2005 03:39 PM (fl6E1)
7
Galloway punishes Senators and other Gimps like you.
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 23, 2005 07:21 PM (VhNDM)
8
Rusty it's time to ban this moron. He's gotten stupider than greg.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 23, 2005 08:57 PM (0yYS2)
9
Impy, join the 82nd in Iraq and have fun on a torture spree!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 23, 2005 10:27 PM (VhNDM)
10
George Gallay gose to PLEASURE ISLAND he plays pool he somes cigars he eats and eats he throws away hsi school books he burns the US flag and he turns into a donkey he has made a ss of himself thats becuase he always has been a ass it just took him to do something this dumb to realise it
Posted by: sandpiper at September 24, 2005 08:15 AM (ciw10)
11
Downing Street Moron: You are an outright liar.
Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2005 12:33 PM (jwCcw)
12
We don't believe that Israel is responisble for all the world's ills. Just Palestinian's.
Posted by: Odelisk8 at September 26, 2005 05:33 PM (JC1vU)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 22, 2005
The Duty to Support the Troops and Their Mission
There are things worse than losing a loved one in war, although that may be hard to imagine. Victory gives meaning to the death of a loved one. Their death becomes sacrifice when something noble is built out of the ashes of war.
The great tragedy that was Vietnam was that so many died. And for what? To see South Vietnam fall to a Stalinist dictatorship, hundreds of thousands rounded up for re-education, and the spread of communism (or worse) in Southeast Asia. The vanity of their deaths cannot be laid at the feet of the soldiers they fought with. No, we are to blame.
There is an unwritten pact between soldier and citizen in a democratic nation. The soldier puts his life at risk and the citizen supports the soldier and his mission and gives him whatever tools are necessary to win it. Whatever remains of what was once referred to as 'the glory of war' is still found in victory. The purpose of war is still to win.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
10:55 AM
| Comments (28)
| Add Comment
Post contains 639 words, total size 4 kb.
Posted by: Chris Short at September 22, 2005 09:11 AM (0OCQY)
2
Me too. Well put, Rusty.
Posted by: Oyster at September 22, 2005 11:13 AM (fl6E1)
Posted by: Howie at September 22, 2005 12:40 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 22, 2005 03:38 PM (0yYS2)
5
How sad that this needs to be said at all. We're fortunate to have you say it so eloquently.
Posted by: justamomof4 at September 22, 2005 05:26 PM (7auSQ)
6
so now they're pulling a switheroo on that good ol' wartime sloganry design that's served us well for so long? I think you fellas better find something that rolls off the tongue a bit better. support the troops
and their mission! That just doesn't flow, boys. And it's simply too much to remember amid all the flying emotions of an anti-peace rally. I venture to suggest my own magnanimously conceived bit of sloganry that encapsulates the entire 'MO' of diffusing US-style democracy & liberation throughout the middle-east, and makes good symbolic use of the brotherhood lingo--this is it: "FREEDOM ROCKS!" There! Don't you see this is all you need as far as slogans go! Whatever it is, "Freedom rocks!" has it covered--patriotism, primacy of liberty, Islamic oppression sucks, brotherhood of man, no religion too, all that. I urge you to take my advice and dispose of your complicated propagandistical appeals to men and their missions. Your main concern is selling a idea, and my superior symbol encompasses everything and more, and it can of course be easily altered to suit the tastes of your particular target demographic. The hip-hop subculture might prefer something in the vein of "Freedom is da' bomb," or "Freedom got game!" for the urban playground ballers. Or "Freedom ain't wack!" for the shot callin skeptics. As for the liberal elite, im afraid you've already lost the battle there, what they need is guilt. Your ". . .and support their mission" is just gonna breed more self-destructive cynicism, so that's probably a positive outcome from your perspective. So I'll make one final suggestion for the ones working so hard to orchestrate our downfall: "Freedom is the shit." A bit coarse and crude, but that's what appeals to the liberal elite right? KISS principle, right? Keep It Sexy Shithead.
Posted by: mustafaak at September 22, 2005 08:10 PM (jWaQK)
7
Thank you, Rusty. Well said. The weasels, traitors, and defeatists will be out in force soon, so we must be prepared to defend our troops.
We MUST NOT EVER let our troops be disrespected like they were during the Vietnam War. If I ever see one of those weasels disrespect one of our troops, I swear I won't be responsible for my actions. I will hurt the weasel, male or female, it matters not to me.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 08:13 PM (rUyw4)
8
Here's Mustafaak in his own words on 6-7-05:
...but all the bullshit about peace and non violence-that's just to keep the overseers off our back.
Rusty, I believe you have a good chance to get that fatwa you've been wanting for so long. I believe we have one of the little jihad wanna-be shits right here on the Jawa.
Rusty, you mean old dude, I didn't know you were an overseer. LOL!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 08:42 PM (rUyw4)
9
Mustafaak wins the prize!
I thought that DSM or one of the new guys, like BushPig, might have had a shot at being the first to vomit up a long-winded, nearly unintelligible respone to this post, but the dark horse came from behind to win it! Go Mustafaak!!!
Posted by: File Closer at September 22, 2005 08:51 PM (pgXsZ)
10
overseers yes! sharade! you pinned the tail right on the camel! I'm glad somebody's with me
Posted by: mustafa at September 22, 2005 09:15 PM (jWaQK)
11
Mustafa,
Please tell me that English is not your first language. What the hell did you say? And please, be precise.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 09:58 PM (rUyw4)
12
" ...twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe..."
That makes far more sense than mustafa's insensible rant, but I guess that's the price you pay for goat-borne syphilis. They say senility comes before the chronic incontinence.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 22, 2005 11:11 PM (0yYS2)
13
I couldn't agree more with this:
There is an unwritten pact between soldier and citizen in a democratic nation. The soldier puts his life at risk and the citizen supports the soldier and his mission and gives him whatever tools are necessary to win it. Whatever remains of what was once referred to as 'the glory of war' is still found in victory. The purpose of war is still to win.
But I can't help but notice that you don't define "win" in this post. What is a "win" in Iraq in 2005? Establishing a democratic (and Islamic) republic? Allowing the breakup of the state into squabbling and weak fiefdoms?
How long might we stay to achieve this "win?" How many more soldiers must be killed and maimed to do it? How do you propose to keep troop levels where they need to be to secure -- if not a victory, then at least security? How do you propose we pay for it?
And in a democratic Republic, any such mission must rest on the consent of the citizenry. Are they still behind this mission?
Posted by: stickler at September 23, 2005 01:22 AM (hZJsR)
14
legally licensed to issue fatwas in 7 states and abroad. diggit.
Posted by: Mustafa at September 23, 2005 01:57 AM (jWaQK)
15
Greetings Jawa Readers,
Perhaps there is some grave and deep semantic misunderstanding about the concepts of supporting troops and supporting the ongoing Iraq war.
Simply put, troops are people and war is a state of armed conflict. One may support or not support one with or without the other, as they are independent variables, i.e. support of y is not a function of support for x.
Two short questions from this vet:
Is it wrong to say that troops can be supported by those working hard to make it politically possible for them to return safely to America?
Is it wrong to be honest with them about the real reasons they have been sent to fight in Iraq?
I would like to see them come back to America forthwith.
Posted by: Collin Baber at September 23, 2005 05:01 AM (uRNNR)
16
We all want to see them come back. But if you do not support the cause, you cannot give your support wholly to the troops.
Not supporting the mission gave rise to the abuse the troops recieved when they arrived back home from Vietnam. That and the massive propaganda that was fed by the machine about supposed atrocities. Troops recieved NO SUPPORT from the gov't or the people (the ones who spoke up, anyway) and look at the resentment it gave them towards their country when they returned...and who could blame them.
Ask that question again Collin.
Posted by: kermit at September 23, 2005 06:37 AM (DX+fh)
17
Yeah BABLLLAR!!!! Answer the goddamn question you twisty-head numnut! BUSHIE hates the troopers and feeds'em into the flying zarqawi shrapnel - GET REAL - Screw Vietnam, we're buying stuff from 'em even after we bombed'em for 15 years and let Klanrooster shoot 'em up in the jungle. Death is death and victory is bullshit for those who die because they can't enjoy it. THEY'RE DEAD!! Stop believing Bush's BIG LIE!!!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 23, 2005 07:37 AM (VhNDM)
18
Quothe mustafa, Valentino of goats: "legally licensed to issue fatwas in 7 states and abroad. diggit."
Great! I'm licensed to hunt down rabid dogs, feral pigs, and muslims, we should get together sometime.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 23, 2005 09:04 AM (0yYS2)
19
"There is an unwritten pact between soldier and citizen in a democratic nation."
Why only soldier and citizen? That leaves out the people making decisions. The people in the Pentagon Papers.
Leaving them out is a great way to avoid accountability.
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 09:59 AM (y/f3P)
20
Collin,
Here's the deal. In almost every instance with very few exceptions, the people who support the troops also support the war. People who don't support the war rarely ever support the troops.
There's a reason for this. The liberals who oppose the war oppose war period, no matter the provacation. They were against the war on the Taliban, mainly because they somehow think they can manipulate these people. I could go on, but why? You get the picture.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 23, 2005 10:31 AM (rUyw4)
21
" They were against the war on the Taliban, mainly because they somehow think they can manipulate these people."
that war had a 90 some percent approval rating. the one we're fighting in has nowhere near that support.
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 10:57 AM (y/f3P)
22
Actus,
I doubt it. I don't think you could get 90% of the people in this country to agree that the sun comes up in the East, and I'm not trying to be obtuse.
The Left was against the war in Afghanistan from the start, and although some liberals did half-heartedly support the war, as soon as a few Taliban were killed they opposed it. The liberals and leftists here in the US see the jihadists as their natural allies against Christianity and conservatives. The problem will come for the Leftists if and when their allies attain a level of success. Britain and Europe are good examples of this, as Muslims have reached a level of success that allows them to murder and bomb their fellow citizens with little or no repercussions.
A good example of what I'm talking about: The Left attacks Christians who oppose gay marriage but align with Muslims who support the execution of homosexuals. Go figure!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 23, 2005 04:03 PM (rUyw4)
23
actus: I think it's mostly because some people can't "connect the dots". Our attackers were clearly defined after 9/11. But must we wait to be attacked before taking action? Who would have been happy had thousands more died from another attack in say Los Angeles, and afterwards we find that Iraq had a hand in it? Why must we only do something "after" American citizens are killed?
We were damned if we invaded Iraq and damned if we didn't. At least now we aren't counting the dead in our streets. Not to say that soldiers lives aren't precious, but they took on the job of protecting the homeland. And regardless of what "you" believe or what "you" argue, personally, I believe something far worse on our own soil has been averted as a result of the invasion.
You're entitled to your opinion and no one would dream of denying you that. I can even understand why you may feel the way you do. Why can't you extend the same courtesy? You understand your own thought processes which brought you to your own opinion, yet, you cannot understand why someone else may come to a different conclusion. Your process of reasoning is merely different, not necessarily correct.
Your comments are terse and unrevealing. They are rarely, if ever, defended with facts, links or reasonable discourse. And I see more often how you "don't" comment when facts are presented in a cogent manner with references and back up. You wait until you can take a statement out of the context of the entire post and bring up some obscure point that wasn't made clear enough to you, but everyone else seems to get it. When was the last time you vocally agreed with anything here at all? Or are you afraid you'll dilute your negative message with something positive? Your M.O. is clear. Every time it's different with you so no one can really communicate clearly with you.
Posted by: Oyster at September 23, 2005 04:17 PM (fl6E1)
24
'I doubt it. I don't think you could get 90% of the people in this country to'
sorry. its true. look it up.
"Why can't you extend the same courtesy?"
What the hell are you whining about?
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 09:00 PM (Zi15r)
25
Ah, just as I thought. Terse and no content. Good job, actus. I pegged you right.
Posted by: Oyster at September 23, 2005 09:14 PM (YudAC)
26
"Ah, just as I thought. Terse and no content. "
some of us get to the point. sorry.
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 10:02 PM (Zi15r)
27
Mr. Actus:
I'm not talking about some dumn poll. You know as well as I that these polls don't measure support in a meaningful way. Please tell me that you are not that shallow.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 03:13 PM (rUyw4)
28
"I'm not talking about some dumn poll. You know as well as I that these polls don't measure support in a meaningful way."
There were lots of polls and indications that the war in afghanistan had overwhelming support. But its not as meaningfull as your 'doubt.'
Posted by: actus at September 25, 2005 08:07 PM (QPrcU)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 21, 2005
George Galloway Adopts a U.S. Sniper
George Galloway is the British traitor who openly supports Iraqi insurgents killing his fellow citizen. He is currently on tour in the U.S. promoting his book. Had he done this during WWII, when Americans had balls, he would have found himself in jail. Had he done this in Britain during that war, he would have found himself at the end of a noose.
Here is an eBay auction with a novel twist. They are auctioning off a signed copy of George Galloway's book. 100% of the proceeds will be given to American Snipers, and will be used to help our boys kill some of George Galloway's 'freedom fighters' before they blow up some more kids waiting for candy.
P.S.--Ever wonder what would happen if George Galloway were to meet the brave and noble leader of the 'resistance' in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? (NSFW)
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
01:16 PM
| Comments (46)
| Add Comment
Post contains 155 words, total size 1 kb.
1
It is written that after Cindy Sheehan
receives a poo finger stash... This moral gimp will all receive a dirty digit application of face furniture.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 21, 2005 01:28 PM (5ceWd)
2
Lord Haw-Haw nearly met a somewhat similar fate in his own district!
Remember just before the UK elections he was campaigning and a gang of his buddies started rioting and tried to get him for the sin of participating in democracy?
Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at September 21, 2005 02:24 PM (e/NJt)
3
Doc - you neglected to mention that he is touring with Phoney Joany and the great American patriot Jane Fonda. The later of the clan that put up the $ (or part of it ) to publish JFK's America bashing book 34 years ago. The one with the drunk Marines raising an American flag *UPSIDEDOWN*! I have hated them all ever since.
an old exJarhead
Posted by: Rod Stanton at September 21, 2005 02:56 PM (tplWd)
4
The book on ebay will go to no one but me as i have bid 1,000,000 dollors for it, you right wing bush loving moonbats are a bunch of complete cunts and the iraqi resistence will fuck you right up the shit hole just like you got fucked in vietenam (ha-ha).
Posted by: jay at September 21, 2005 03:19 PM (d0xQh)
5
Ahh..so the neocons don't like Galloway, because he shoves the truth down their throats...thats when they dont' have Bushcos "manhood" blocking the way...Bush read My Pet Goat while New York was in flames, he stayed on vacation while New Orleans was being destroyed...and they follow this idiot like mindless lap dogs...
Thank you Mr. Galloway..for kicking their ass.
They seem to forget what family is in bed with the Saudis, the same ones that sent us the terrorists...IDIOTS one and all.
Posted by: BushPig at September 21, 2005 03:25 PM (ywZa8)
Posted by: Howie at September 21, 2005 03:27 PM (D3+20)
7
I can go into a bank in FLINT, michigan and open up a bank accout and get a free gun, what does that tell you about you good old gun hoe u.s.of a how long can a bully bully before the victim turns, steal the oil, award rich building contracts to the friends of the friends,(sounds like la cosa nostra) killers in suits ordering death from afar. we the free will not go away.
Posted by: jay at September 21, 2005 03:49 PM (d0xQh)
8
Jay,
WTF, are you literate?
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 03:54 PM (rUyw4)
9
BushPig, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. I don't know Dr. Shackleford, but I would venture to guess that your assertion about him and other posters that agree with him is incorrect.
All your assumptions do is prove your ignorance.
Posted by: Bodacious at September 21, 2005 04:01 PM (PRcGW)
10
Galloway is just pissy because his mother was a nickle whore who worked overtime behind the bowling alley.
Also because he has a very tiny penis like most liberals.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 21, 2005 04:04 PM (5ceWd)
11
Libs can piss and moan all they want. They still will not win elections and they will get slaughtered in the mid term here.
You degenerate liberals will lick the boots of Bush and beg for mercy. You will also kow tow to Filthy Allah and ask him to poo finger your upper lip.
Posted by: Ob Snooks at September 21, 2005 04:06 PM (5ceWd)
12
BTW, In Flint Michigan which, I doubt you have ever been you smug bag of shit- Should you have money to open a bank account, you will need a gun to keep a liberal from stealing it from you.
Bravo to the banks in Flint!!!!
Oh and.... fuck off libbie before I paint you a mustasheeeeee! I had curry for lunch and it is bound to be a good one.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 21, 2005 04:08 PM (5ceWd)
13
Filthy Allah(peace be unto your poo finger),
I am requesting that you give Jay and Bushpiggie a "Dirty Sanchez". A two knuckle one for Jay!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 04:10 PM (rUyw4)
14
That POS Jay is just saying what Kerry, Pelosi, and Kennedy really think.
Of course the liberal leaders would never have the balls to say is aloud. Even their constituents would turn on them.
Jay, when will your leadership have the balls to stand up and say what they think? Does your side really have to settle for being represented by some clerk at the DMV like you?
Posted by: Brad at September 21, 2005 04:13 PM (3OPZt)
15
The best argument any libtard can make sounds like nothing more than the ravings of one of those drunken psychos who bum money at intersections, only less coherent.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 21, 2005 04:13 PM (0yYS2)
16
Actually you can adopt a sniper. Go to Americansniper.org and prepare to open your wallet just a little bit and help our guys protect their fellow soldiers and help the good people of Iraq by getting rid of the jihadists.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 04:35 PM (rUyw4)
17
aHH...the neocons flock here like flies ..backing up their "savior" Bush with vague generalities...but their numbers dwindle..many are already "under the rocks"..saying.."Oh, I didn't vote for him..no, not me"...LOL...and the rest..like our President...don't read the news papers, don't watch it on TV..don't read Time, Newsweek, or any other "periodical"..unless its got "skin".. ....thats rigth cons..right from the oval office...Bush is a self proclaimed "illiterate"...on current events..he didn't even know New Orleans was flooding..too busy playing the guitar..with a country western flunkie...in Colorado...
Posted by: BushPig at September 21, 2005 04:46 PM (ywZa8)
18
Bushpiggie,
LOL! You're either drunk or your dumn ass friends gave you some bad dope. Go sober up!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 04:52 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Brad at September 21, 2005 04:55 PM (3OPZt)
20
Jesusland...take the blinders off..from your "name"...you have to be telling us your "christian"..well, Jesus didn't say anything about keeping the wool pulled over our eyes..quite the opposite...He warned us against leaders just as we have now...Follow the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, and you'll go against all "holy warnings".about what Bush and the "Fanatical Religious Right" are about now...the "money changers" are back..and no one is chasing them out...
Posted by: BushPig at September 21, 2005 04:59 PM (M7kiy)
21
Oh, brother! Bushpiggie has the gall to call someone illiterate. Kettle.Pot.Black. Figure it out, Piggie.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 05:00 PM (rUyw4)
22
Look Hitler;
It wasn’t Bush who parked all the school buses in the flood plain and forgot to use them during “evacuation week”. I think there was some WEEEEED being huffed in the Mayors office and Governors mansion in those critical days.
Posted by: Brad at September 21, 2005 05:01 PM (3OPZt)
23
Pigface,
My name signifies a geographic location and says nothing about my religious beliefs. I might be a Muslim for all you know, but I just happen to live in the part of the US that voted for Bush and was labeled Jesusland by a German newspaper.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 05:05 PM (rUyw4)
24
Brad...yes, all around made horrible mistakes..but you have to look at one main one..While a Category 5 hurricane approached the coast..Bush remained on vacation..Condi Rice remained in New York..she was "booed" at Spamalot Musical, and cursed in a shoe store..because everyone else thought our leaders needed to be in Washington...it is unbelievable that our President didn't get his "frilly" ass back to DC..
and even then, he didn't realize how bad it was..it amazes me that anyone can approve of this behavior...but for those that arent' blinded..it shows the true demeanor of Bush..
Posted by: BushPig at September 21, 2005 05:08 PM (M7kiy)
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 21, 2005 05:13 PM (JQjhA)
26
Pig,
The problem we have with you is not that you blame Bush for anything, but that you blame Bush for everything. You never criticize the incompetant idiots who were in charge in LA. and NO prior to the hurricane.
I have no qualms that the Federal response was less than disired, but man, if you can't see that the mayor and the governor had the power and responsibility to evacuate those poor people from NO you are blind.
I have heard that even a blind hog will stumble across an acorn every now and then, so Bushpig, here is you acorn. Open your eyes and quit hating long enough to see the faults on the Left.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 05:15 PM (rUyw4)
27
Bushpig:
You and Jay can stop licking information off of Michael Moore's dick any day now.
Posted by: dave at September 21, 2005 05:17 PM (CcXvt)
28
Hitler,
Condi Rice is the Secretary of State, not the Mayor of NO or the Governor of LA.
Are you saying the executive in charge of the State department has more responsibility for domestic catastrophists than the Local mayor or Governor of the state?
Bush actually has phones, TV, faxes, computers,Â… ya know, Â…all that stuff at the Western Whitehouse.
Hitler, If I tell you to get out of town, and the mayor parks perfectly good busses in a swamp and you donÂ’t leave,Â…Â…Â…. wellÂ…Â….shit, go loot the wall mart.
Posted by: Brad at September 21, 2005 05:20 PM (3OPZt)
29
looks like gods on Allah's side hes going to si stick his hurricane right up the US asshole a gain--i guess you guys didn't get the message last time
Posted by: yoz at September 21, 2005 05:33 PM (abx+P)
30
"looks like god's on Allah's side...blah, blah, blah".
I thought you imbeciles considered Allah to be God. HaHaHa!
You're so dumn you don't even know a proper insult! LOL!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 05:45 PM (rUyw4)
31
Jay:
So who's side was "Allah" on when he washed thousands of Muslims out to sea with a tsunami, genius?
Posted by: dave at September 21, 2005 05:51 PM (CcXvt)
32
That would be hundreds of thousands, Dave. Touche!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 05:52 PM (rUyw4)
33
I love a good fight! Where did these morons come from? Did Kos do another purge? Is the DU server down? WTF?
Posted by: Oyster at September 21, 2005 06:46 PM (YudAC)
34
As usual, the morons got their asses kicked and slunk away like the polecats they are. Maybe DSM will show himself so he can receive an ass kicking.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 21, 2005 06:55 PM (rUyw4)
35
Maybe BushPig and Jay are worried about being in the sights of the Galloway-sponsored sniper. Our boys can actually shoot, unlike the Iraqi (read: Syrian and Iranian) "resistance", who has had better luck bombing mosques than engaging their foes with direct fire.
Where's DSM when you need him? At least he can string together words that end up somewhat resembling a sentence.
Posted by: File Closer at September 21, 2005 08:27 PM (pgXsZ)
36
I actually got to fire a hippy punk kid today at work. Felt kind a good actually. Will give him a bad ref too.
And tonight, after crapping out what seemed like and endless snakeline of my Gwarwalli's Cumin cakes and lamb Kababs....I used my copy of the "Holy" right... Koran as wipe.
Islam is nothing but a hiding place for degenerate scum and boy lovers. That is why libs fight so hard to support it.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 21, 2005 10:22 PM (bikuR)
37
It's kinda disappointing to me that in irking fundy lefties with the auction, I have attracted fundy righties.
Some of you pretend that Islam is interchangeable with Terrorism, that there is no moderate Islam. Try and remember that even if you combine the number of Western deaths at the hands of terrorists, it would still not equal 1/1000th the amount of Muslims and Arabs Islamist radicals have killed. So when you wonder where are the moderates, it's a bit hard to ignore them innit? They are being killed every day.
Jawa, thanks for the post. You put it quite well. I really appreciate it. I have already received death threats for the auction, so it better be worth it!
Best,
-Roark
Posted by: Roark at September 22, 2005 12:49 AM (gESbS)
38
What is your point? If you read the Koran, any rational being can tell it is a terrorist handbook.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 22, 2005 05:37 AM (bikuR)
39
Galloway is taking apart the Bush Regime!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 22, 2005 08:30 AM (VhNDM)
40
Galloway is a pratt. It figures that you libs with your tinfoil hats would get all moist whenever he opens his trap.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 22, 2005 08:49 AM (5ceWd)
41
DSM,
Are you talking about the Galloway that got his clock cleaned by Christopher Hitchens last week in New York?
Or the Galloway who was licking the balls of "Baby Assad" last month in Syria?
Or was it the Galloway who came to the US to join with Mama Sheehan and the anti-war movement?
They got together somewhere and created so much interest that 30 people showed up in Washington to march with Mama in yesterday's anti-war protest.
My question to you, DSM; Which one is Pinky and which one is the Brain?
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 10:16 AM (rUyw4)
42
What's my point? That the very fact that Muslims are the largest target of Islamist terrorists proves that there is an Islam contrary to what you would like us to think.
Given that, to pretend any religion cannot produce strains of violent followers is absurd given every historical account, including Buddhism. And if Buddhism can be co-opted by warriors to be a "handbook" for violence, anything can.
Further, given your supremacism. Had the West been engulfed in hundreds of years of war and turmoil and infighting, I would imagine you would be the first in line to be our very own Taliban.
Posted by: Roark at September 22, 2005 11:09 AM (gESbS)
43
Quothe Filthy Allah: "I actually got to fire a hippy punk kid today at work. Felt kind a good actually. Will give him a bad ref too."
That's always fun.
"Islam is nothing but a hiding place for degenerate scum and boy lovers. That is why libs fight so hard to support it."
Never were truer words spoken.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 22, 2005 03:48 PM (0yYS2)
44
wheres the tar and feathers lets give it to this torrie
Posted by: sandpiper at September 22, 2005 10:44 PM (08Fdo)
45
Tory no, Respect Coalition, yes.
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 23, 2005 07:44 AM (VhNDM)
46
I especially loved that utterly tasteless pic you guys have up of George Galloway's head (very poorly) photoshop'd onto a TV cap of a beheading from Bush's War. Just completely tasteless, and un-funny. If you're going to ignore real facts to support your ideology, lie (as was the introduction to this post...'adopting a sniper') spin, or mis-lead...do it with a sense of humor. Being completely wrong can be funny too, you know!
I only hope that those who blindly and unintelligently continue to support the Bush/Blair administrations and their policies, literally wake up eventually. This "war first" policy will negatively effect the U.S. and it's allies for generations to come now. You know..I think those who support this brain-dead conflict should probably be the first ones on the ground in Iraq. How about that? I am sure there are a few veterans out there, but the rest of you guys are just chicken-shit, little-dick'd, war hawks.
If the NeoCons started the war (which they did, without reason or legality) then I think that they should be the ones to fight it.
Why have poor people fight a war that isn't even theirs?
Oh, does ANYONE (racist, homophobe, or regular human) on this site bother to do any fact checking? Anyone?
Lame.
Thanks
-Chuck
Posted by: Chuck at September 28, 2005 06:11 PM (IzeSk)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 19, 2005
Light Posting Alert
Three reasons:
1) Katrina. I'm broke. Despite the crazy blog money rumors, I don't have any. So, I'm putting my time where my wallet can't help.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
08:00 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 213 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Take care of yourself. Bringing a Washington Times into A Unitarian Church is much more dangerous in my eyes than having a Fatwa issued against you.
Can not wait till your triumphal return.
Tom
Posted by: Tom at September 19, 2005 08:10 PM (yM9MF)
2
Are you not allowed to blog within the Unitard community? I fail to see how this affects your output.
Dude, if you would like a pleasantly meaningless denomination with minimal biblical requirements, join the Episcopalians. You get wine at communion and it smells like incense and alcoholism, instead of Unitarians (which smell like hemp and cabbage).
Posted by: See-dubya at September 19, 2005 08:16 PM (EufM0)
3
So, dude, where's the link to the padme/leia photoshop?
Posted by: Partisan Pundit at September 19, 2005 09:37 PM (ukBP3)
4
Wait, you mean the Universalist-Unitarians aren't the ones that mass marry? You know, the Moonies, right? Dayamn, and here I have been waiting all this time for my arranged marriage with a Korean chick! This goes a long way in explaining why we had Communion 'brownies' last week........
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 19, 2005 09:48 PM (JQjhA)
5
Unitarians see through Bush, Unification followers run Washington Times, get it?
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 20, 2005 06:27 AM (VhNDM)
6
Really screw with the left and join a Four Square Church. They (I guess I should say we) are a small denomimation that grew in the 60s and 70s by drafting
hippie evangelicals. That seeming contradiction should throw Kos & Company for a loop.
The first 30 minutes of our service is a Christian rock concert (our church has 3 bands that rotate Sundays). We don't have hymnals; instead lyrics are projected up a concert-sized big screen behind the band. Our lead pastor is an aging California surfer who rarely wears anything other than shorts and flip flops while delivering his sermon, and we have coffee and donuts available at the back the entire time (and it is perfectly acceptable to get either at any time). After services, we have snowcones.
Of course, part of the fun is telling all this to my uber-religiously conservative deacon father-in-law, who is convinced we've joined a cult. :-)
Nothing gives him the willies more than telling him I'm taking his wife and granddaughter to have "baptisms and snowcones at the Karaoke church."
The fact that they are really good church is just an added bonus.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 20, 2005 09:06 AM (2cgwG)
7
Nothing wrong with hippie church, especially considering Jesus was a big hippie. Think about it; he didn't work, had long hair, freeloaded off everyone, and talked about peace and love and the virtues of being broke. Come to think of it, he was a follower of Buddha, who was perhaps the first hippie, as he was born to wealth, but instead of being productive, encouraged generations of young men and women to rebel against prosperity.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 20, 2005 10:31 AM (0yYS2)
8
Jesus worked. First he was a carpenter then he was a preacher. I agree that there is nothing wrong with a celebration of G-d as opposed to a mourning. And snow cones are really just cool.
Posted by: Defense Guy at September 20, 2005 11:01 AM (jPCiN)
9
Rusty:
I'm involved in a project with the Red Cross that takes 10 to 11 hours a day. I've pretty much suspended blogging.
Posted by: Demosophist at September 20, 2005 11:05 AM (00zgk)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Report from Hurricane Zone: The Unavoidable Tragedy
As some of you know, I spent the weekend down in the Gulf helping victims of hurricane Katrina. The area I was in was about 45 miles inland from the coast, so I'm sure that I did not see the worst of it. But after seeing the devestation of the storm, I think I am now in a better position to comment on the grand-standing and finger-pointing of politicians and of pundits alike:
you are all full of an enormous amount of bullshit.
The biggest bullshit coming from partisans on the Left, trying to blame the federal government, and partisans on the Right, trying to blame local governments, is that the response was somehow too slow. Let me briefly explain.
Nearly a hundred miles inland I began to see downed trees. By the time we approached about the sixty mile mark from the coast (we were driving from Jackson, Mississipi, towards the coast--so, say 20 miles outside of Hattiesburg) it became worse. Much worse.
Downed trees lined the road. I presume that the majority of them were blown across the highway during the hurricane. They had been roughly cut and then dragged to the side of the road, . Hundreds of them. No, thousands of them.
Each tree had to be moved just to let traffic flow. Every. Single. One. For mile upon mile upon mile. For hundreds of miles. In every direction. This takes time.
And as lanes were cleared and highways opened, trucks and supplies had to move into the zone at the same time as hundreds of thousands of people were trying to move out.
If getting people out of the zone of destruction was a logistical nightmare, getting relief in was an equally daunting task.
Now imagine that same task, and add on severe flooding. Also, you don't know how deep the water is between point A and point B. Difficult under any circumstances, nearly impossible when such a large area was affected.
I spent most of Saturday and Sunday cutting trees off of people's roofs, sheds, and dog pens. By the time we got to their houses most of the trees had been cut out of the roads and driveways, but this took some time depending on a lot of factors.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
07:53 PM
| Comments (33)
| Add Comment
Post contains 856 words, total size 5 kb.
1
thanks for getting your hands dirty on behalf of us who are unable to go there ourselves.
Loved the article.
Posted by: Jonathan at September 19, 2005 12:15 PM (ywZa8)
Posted by: From the Swamp at September 19, 2005 12:18 PM (7evkT)
3
Rusty:
Good for you! I'm helping to staff the Red Cross Information line, and will probably be moved to the Emergency Financial Assistance line today, because that's where the bottleneck seems to be. I've got stories, but I need to get to the phone lines right now. Maybe later...
Posted by: Demosophist at September 19, 2005 12:27 PM (g6GlX)
4
Thanks for going down there and thank for offering some perspective.
Posted by: ShrinkWrapped at September 19, 2005 01:12 PM (SahF3)
5
Way to put your back into it Rusty. A buddy sent me this a while back.
Comment hat tip: Pam
Posted by: Howie at September 19, 2005 01:23 PM (D3+20)
6
Rusty, I'll second that emotion on the air conditioning. As someone who grew up in the South prior to A/C, I can attest to the misery that life in the South was before we had it.
A Sunday morning sitting through preaching with a shirt and tie on in the middle of July watching the gyrations of a red wasp and wondering whose hair it would end up in was about the only thing that got my mind off the heat and humidity.
Oh, Rusty, welcome back, and thanks for everything you did for the people on the Gulf Coast. We need more people like you.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 19, 2005 01:23 PM (rUyw4)
7
Yeah I' so far inland but when the storm came through it was still a tropical storm. Really out of the ordinary. Two trees down and over the road on the way to work. One just North of Etown ILL and one at Dixon Springs. If the rain and wind can take down trees 8 to 10 hrs drive inland i can only imagine.
Posted by: Howie at September 19, 2005 01:29 PM (D3+20)
8
Thanks all. I may be headed down there again next weekend, depending on a few things.
Posted by: Rusty at September 19, 2005 01:32 PM (JQjhA)
9
There were trees down and major power outages as far north as Nashville, Tennessee. Schools turned out due to flooding.
Posted by: Razorgirl at September 19, 2005 02:19 PM (H+tJ8)
10
I have to agree with the Dr.'s assessment of the response. It was a huge disaster and getting that much man power and equipment into a devastated area takes time.
Cutting funding for the levies, though, seems penny wise, but pound foolish. That $71.2 million the Army Corps of Engineers wanted is cheap compared to what it will cost to rebuild.
Posted by: John Gillnitz at September 19, 2005 03:25 PM (eHLUP)
11
Thanks for the perspective, Rusty. And thank you for putting up.
Posted by: Brian B at September 19, 2005 04:22 PM (CouWh)
12
Sorry, Chicken Hawk.
The U.S. government is far bigger right now than the Soviet's ever were. Nice apology for bush boy though.
bok bok, coward.
Posted by: Lars Gruber at September 19, 2005 05:06 PM (NXi5I)
13
There's always one in the crowd, isn't there?
Posted by: Oyster at September 19, 2005 05:15 PM (YudAC)
14
As for your conservative t-shirt ad, how about a more appropriate slogan that reads, "I Love My Fake Boobs!"
Posted by: Lars Gruber at September 19, 2005 05:24 PM (NXi5I)
15
Give it up. Though there's plenty of blame to go around, you must finally accept the fact that the Feds weren't there when they should have been.
Your argument that our government is too small doesn't fly. Obviously we have more resources than Russia.Donald Rumsfeld claimed that we had plenty of National Guard. If we had competent leadership, they would have responded sooner, no excuses, no rationalizations.
Posted by: Jim Hudson at September 19, 2005 05:31 PM (AlMv0)
16
Where do these leftard morons come from? They appear, crap their moronic drivel all over the place, then leave. Back to Kos, maybe? That's the only place I can think of that carries such a heavily negative average IQ as to produce such bastard offsprings of stupidity and arrogance.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 19, 2005 05:51 PM (0yYS2)
17
Rusty, you are right, I have been unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time 6 times in my life, and weathered hurricanes here in NC and in Fl when I was a kid. The root mass from a big live oak can be 15 feet tall. Trees like that need D9's to push around, and take forever to chop into manageable chunks otherwise. And that's just one tree..then imagine, everyfuckingwhere you go. That was Hugo. Floyd was flood city, dead hogs all over.
But, the media has put to much blame on Bush. There needs to be some fingerpointing at local and state governments in La. They have a history of being corrupt and inept, and this hurricane exposed that in a big way.
And I don't give a goddamn if anyone thinks I am racist: New Orleans looked like fucking Port au Prince, after one day. With fucking black po-lice pushing a fucking shopping cart through Wal-mart, "finding" shoes and electronics with the rest of the lucky "finders". Those were not poor starving people looting the WalMart for big screen TV's, it was the cream of Jesse's and Kanye's crop, it be they muthafuckin right to be takin that muthafuckin shit! The hurricane painted the po' downtrodden african americans as a group of people with zero morals and negative accountability.
And then we still have half a nation of ass-fucks like some of the above commenters who can't seem to pull their heads out for a fresh breath and see the light.
Posted by: Mr. K at September 19, 2005 06:30 PM (AoovO)
18
We got a Salon.com mention today for this post. That always brings the trolls out. Not that I'm complaining, but you'd think they'd have a better arguement than 'chickenhawk' and 'you're stupid'.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 19, 2005 08:06 PM (JQjhA)
19
Dear Sir,
Back in 1962, I was just a kid during the Columbus Day Storm.
The damage estimates for the storm were conservatively given at 280 million (1.8 billion in today's dollars).
In 1948 the City of Vanport was destroyed. Vanport was the second largest city in Oregon. It was destroyed by a flood. And in the aftermath, claims of racism were prevelant. Oregon was a state where a large membership in the KKK had been established. If you look up the Vanport Flood you'll find more than enough evidence of that fact.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that a lot of what you're hearing is being fed by the 24-hour news cycle. That's not bad.
But we in Oregon are subjected to winds of 70-100 miles an hour each and every year. You'll never hear it, because we don't have much of a population out here. We've had our share of disaster, but we keep going. We build well and shoulder the cost of our decisions.
When winds carry into my favorite vacation place, St. Maarten, they rebuild. When winds come to my home, we rebuild. We pay for it. You choose where you live. We don't have killer snakes or bugs. We don't have tornadoes. But we do have a responsibility. To take care of ourselves. I guess you don't have to be responsible for your choices if you live in Louisians.
Posted by: OregonGuy at September 19, 2005 10:51 PM (m2tsf)
20
Well rusty, when the posts themselves don't raise above the level of rush after a binge week a little chicken hawk is to be expected. BTW, notice any interesting poll numbers lately?
Hmmmmm????
Posted by: God at September 19, 2005 11:31 PM (SSKLv)
21
I'm sure it's tough. That's not the point.
For only one example - how is any of this a reason why Brown only found out about the deteriorating Superdome sitch, on the 3rd day of it's reporting on cable news? Why weren't supplies airlifted in, and people airlifted out, in a specific plan laid out ahead of time, with resources already heading in one hour after the storm had abated?
The fact remains that US Fed responded to the Indonesian tsunami quicker. The US Fed and FEMA both responded to the 2004 Florida hurricane season quicker. So we know they can do better. In New Orleans, they did not.
Nagin, Blanco, Bush and Brown all made mistakes. Nagin is accountable to New Orleans voters, Blanco is accountable to Lousiana voters.
Bush is accountable to all US voters.
Now if Bush had spent the whole 5 days, 2 before the hurricane struck and 3 after, on the phone ordering Blanco to get it together; AND sent in the available hospital ship and other military that were awaiting orders, AND put through the paperwork that would have put New Mexico's Nat'l Guard on the ground maintaining order, etc. etc. - and Blanco had resisted them, while Bush was doing EVERYTHING HE COULD, then you might be able to say he is not responsible.
But Bush thought it was more important to fly out to California for photo ops, eat birthday cake with John McCain, and party on his playtime ranch, than DO HIS JOB and straighten out the sitch on the ground.
If you conservatives and Republicans really believe in accountability, you will find this unacceptable.
Posted by: jim at September 20, 2005 03:03 AM (8II09)
22
You are right, Jim. The President of the United States should tell every mayor and governor in the United States exactly how they should wipe their ass, and the federal government should send a highly paid counselor to hold their hand when they do it.
And after all, should we expect a governor and a mayor elected by the caliber of fine folks we saw looting and shooting, and generally complicating the "sitch" on the ground to be capable of making even one correct, timely decision all by themselves? Of course not; they be needin good ole Massa Bush to be comin an' bailin' they ass out the shit.
Posted by: Mr. K at September 20, 2005 06:07 AM (cFl5Z)
23
Meanwhile, Bush's wildman government is going to burn hundreds of tons of British food aid instead of giving it to the hungry!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16147117&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=exclusive--58--up-in-flames-name_page.html
BUSH FIRE???!!!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 20, 2005 06:30 AM (VhNDM)
24
And all the Bushi-Likudniks must be mad because Samfester is going to destroy ISRAELI pear juice, too.
"There will be a cloud of smoke above Little Rock soon - of burned food, of anger and of shame that the world's richest nation couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and lets Americans starve while they arrogantly observe petty regulations.
Everyone is revolted by the chaotic shambles the US is making of this crisis. Guys from Unicef are walking around spitting blood.
This is utter madness. People have worked their socks off to get food into the region."
Two slaps in the face to Israel and the UK - straight from Bush's blackjack.
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 20, 2005 06:59 AM (VhNDM)
25
Jim's post is a perfect example of how liberals expect, no, they demand, ever bigger and more intrusive nanny-state government, kinda like Communist countries have, which are so well run and benefit the people so much with their free education, free health care, and free firing squads. Liberals are incapable of looking after themselves, and refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, yet they want to do the thinking for all of us.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 20, 2005 02:44 PM (0yYS2)
26
Rusty,
As a Bush-hating moderate, I applaud your post, especially how you end it. Ultimately, I have my suspicions about how things could have been done better by many levels of government; not just in the immediate aftermath, but for several years preceding Katrina. But even so, it's a little early to come to any firm conclusions. The fact is, the facts aren't all in. It's going to take a long time to sort through all the information and decide who was responsible and to what degree.
Nevertheless, there are some really ignorant posts here on both sides of the fence. Of course, the interloping Salon-led liberals, tossing off a few disparaging remarks without engaging in any kind of conversation, they are just pathetic. But also, I see plenty of conservative stupidity here.
My favorite is Mr K's rants against black people. How much looting actually occurred in New Orleans, and how much usually occurs in the aftermath of a disaster like this? Like most everyone else, he's content to draw broad sweeping conclusions from a a few scant televised images. Some people really trust their media, I guess. He's willing to say:
"The hurricane painted the po' downtrodden african americans as a group of people with zero morals and negative accountability."
What, all of them? What percentage actually engaged in looting? Ever think that maybe the media's take on the looting was influenced by the racial angle? No? Well, if I'm wrong, show me some numbers. What, you don't have any? I guess that makes it easier to talk out of your ass. I'm glad to know that the internet has such bold rebels against the evil PC empire that they are courageously willing to speak their minds, DAMN THE SENSITIVE LIBERALS, because you're just that kind of freedom fighter. Allow me to stand in awe.
To the far more reasonable OregonGuy, I can only say it's a lot easier to rebuild a country town than an entire city. If you REALLY want them to rebuild it themselves, I hope you're willing to wait a while for them to bring the ports and refineries online, while our gas prices continue to hover at the $3 mark. The point is, things are just different when you're talking about a major urban center; it has national importance. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of displaced people bereft of jobs, homes and infrastructure. It's just not in the same category. To be fair, I wonder whether Oregon contributes its fair share to federal taxes. From what I know, most rural states are beneficiaries of federal tax revenues in so-called blue states. I don't know specifically about Oregon, but I wouldn't be surprised if us New Yorkers are losing money to you. Of course, this doesn't bother me much because we're all Americans, and we're in this together.
Speaking of which, thanks Rusty, for your help with those unfortunates on the gulf coast.
Posted by: Some Fella at September 20, 2005 03:18 PM (k9rhx)
27
I read somewhere that we were able to airlift supplies into Indonesia 2 days after the tsunami hit. Why did it take state and federal agencies 5 days in our own country?
Or have I been misinformed about the response to the tsunami?
Posted by: brainypirate at September 20, 2005 05:05 PM (mJxjw)
28
Rusty, that totally rocks that you did that. I ditto the thanks from those of us who can't get there.
Posted by: Maureen at September 20, 2005 07:41 PM (ny5O/)
29
Rusty,
There were many avoidable aspects of the Katrina tragedy. It was reported on CNN today that FEMA physically denied doctors access to dehydrated patients who later died. That is prima facie criminal negligence.
White House Spokesman Scott McClellan clearly stated just last week that responsibility for FEMA's bungled and criminaly negligent response led directly to "The President".
What we have witnessed was raw government failure - a cruel rupture of the social contract people and the state are bound by.
As many people have died from FEMA's criminal negligence and FEMA responsibility leads to President Bush, it is hig time that the people initiate long overdue articles of impeachment.
Posted by: Collin Baber at September 20, 2005 10:50 PM (cfr2H)
30
Rusty,
There were many avoidable aspects of the Katrina tragedy. It was reported on CNN today that FEMA physically denied doctors access to dehydrated patients who later died. That is prima facie criminal negligence.
White House Spokesman Scott McClellan clearly stated just last week that responsibility for FEMA's bungled and criminaly negligent response led directly to "The President".
What we have witnessed was raw government failure - a cruel rupture of the social contract people and the state are bound by.
As many people have died from FEMA's criminal negligence and FEMA responsibility leads to President Bush, it is high time that the people initiate long overdue articles of impeachment.
Posted by: Collin Baber at September 20, 2005 10:50 PM (cfr2H)
31
The single biggest thing I'm seeing that is pissing me off is that people are blaming other people for an act of nature.
Yes, the Federal response was slow-Bush unquestionably shoved a know-nothing into the job of FEMA head thinking it didn't matter (Clinton had a guy who was experienced in local and state disaster relief).
Yes, the local/state governments had little or no plan-it is typical of Southern politics, same as the last 140 years.
But, and this is important so pay attention, MOST OF WHAT HAPPENED WOULD HAVE HAPPENED NO MATTER WHAT. An enormous hurricane hit the country after years without a really bad one. Things, NATURAL THINGS, went very badly for us.
You can only logically blame Bush or the local/state governments to the extent that they are responsible-the margins between what happened and what might have. And, frankly, those are mighty slim.
Just as humans did centuries ago, we blame people for disasters. Burn witches for a bad crop, burn politicos for a hurricane.
How far we've come.
Posted by: Jon at September 21, 2005 05:09 AM (xzXuK)
32
Johnny,
Politico pricks who blocked the poor and the black from getting help are going to pay the political price for it. Evil Bush and his horse-ass minions are to blame 100% for all the levee funding robbery, the delay in aid and more.
Just like my old challenge to the Klanroosters: Show me one picture of a bloated white body in New Orleans, just one, Johnny!
America is the laughing stock of the whole world, as even Commie Cuba couldn't have screwed up so criminally bad. BUSH couldn't organize a drunkfest in a goddamn brewery. He is a fraud, a chump, a chimp and a loser of America's lives. What an indefensible scumbag punk!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 21, 2005 06:49 AM (VhNDM)
33
Some Fella:
If so many can infer that the response was slow because the people in the videos are black, it is equally fair to label an entire population based on the behavior seen in the same set of images.
Thank you for enjoying the writing that came out of my ass, as you note with the expected condescension of the prig that you are.
Yes, my posts are sarcastic as hell, because the bullshit is a lot deeper than the flood.
Posted by: Mr. K at September 21, 2005 08:44 PM (m1lCm)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 16, 2005
Michael Yon Podcast
Here's your chance to hear Michael Yon.
Shawn at Bareknucklepolitics interviews him here. Yon is one of the few embedded reporters sticking it out in Iraq and, unlike the talking heads on CNN, Fox, and NBC who don't ever leave the Green Zone, is actually out and about reporting facts from the ground.
Posted by: Rusty at
08:56 AM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 59 words, total size 1 kb.
September 15, 2005
Filthy-Dego-Wop Romans, the Conservatives That Love Them, and the Beginning of Empire (UPDATED)
Why are so many conservatives fascinated with Rome? Personally, I think it's latent homosexuality. In contrast,
Dean Esmay has a more serious take on the same question for you conservatives of what he calls "the America sucks right."
These are the guys at your church that think God has an invisible shield over the U.S., and that as America slouches toward Gomorroh he slowly raises the shield. This line of thought can go to the extreme and become one that basically says were doomed, DOOMED, DOOMED!
In many ways, this argument is very similar to the namby-pambies of the 'hate America first' Left and self-proclaimed paleocons on the Right who share the belief that America is destined for failure, soon, because that is the fate of all empires.
The remedy? End the empire, bring troops home, etc. Only by ending the empire can America be saved.
Which, of course, is stupid, since at any point in Rome's history the same argument could have been made. Bring troops home from Palestine now, one could have argued in 70 C.E. Of course, 300 years later you would have found the city of Caesaria, near modern Haifa, bustling with activity--all of it Roman.
And what is so great about the Romans anyway? Filthy mass-murdering buggers that they were. Dean writes:
They were a vicious, savage people, given to mass murder on a scale that would make Saddam Hussein seem like a piker--and that was while their Empire was growing. Julius Caesar, before he seized power and turned Rome into an Empire, boasted of slaughtering over 100,000 people in just one of his jaunts into Gaul. Not 100,000 on the battlefield either--no, this included razing villages, hacking off the heads of children, women, old men, the crippled and lame. This was celebrated as a part of Ceasar's greatness, with triumphal celebrations and murals and statues showing in gory detail as Ceasar and his troops raped barbarian women and sliced barbarian children's heads off.
All that, and Rome's greatest days were yet ahead of her.
Let me just add a few other things. The Romans were not the biggest, not the most powerful, and certainly not the most long-lasting empire the world has ever known.
Biggest: British empire. At one time controlled a quarter of the world.
Most powerful: U.S., present day. Is there any doubt about this? Ok, we'll give special runner-up status to Alexander's short-lived but very kick-ass empire and a tie going to Genghis Khan's Mongolian hordes.
Longest lasting: China is by far the longest lasting empire ever known. Before the Romans even began to consolidate power let alone think of empire, China was already an imperial power. The Chinese Empire begins in 221 BCE. And when did it end? It hasn't. Even when China is conquered by external forces, such as during the Mongolian invasion, it continued. Instead of 'Mongolionizing' the Chinese, the Mongolians were Chinafied. How's that for 'end of empire' theory!
And China was, and is, a real empire. Not an empire in the Leninst sense of the word, or an empire in the dependency literature of the new Left, or like an empire, or an empire defined by--well, by whatever definition suits the purposes of polemists who wish to use the word to describe something they don't like, namely, America.
So, when did the Chinese Empire fall? It didn't. It's still in existance today. So, there's no more Emperor. Big deal. Go to modern China today and you will see it is not a 'nation-state' but an Imperial power. Nearly half of China's land mass is located West of where most Han Chinese live. Ask the Uygyars of Xinjiang or Tibetans if China isn't an 'empire'.
The Chinese Empire might suck every bit as much as the Roman one did, but it has lasted for 2,226 years and shows no sign of falling.
Even if we were to date the beginning of the modern Chinese Empire with reunification under the Sui Dynasty in 589 and date its end (wrongfully, I believe) to 1949, when The People's Republic was set up, that's an empire that lasts 1360 years!!
And we've been around, what, a couple hundred years? I bet it will be another 500 before we even begin to invent a food dish that is the cultural equvalent of the all important General Tsao's Orange Chicken.
Is America doomed? Hell no! World, you aint seen nothin' yet.
UPDATE: First, apologies for mispelling 'dego'. It should be dago. Laura is right--if you're going to use racial slurs to get people's attention you really ought to spell it right. I guess I just don't use racist terminology enough......
Second, Dean's orginal post was in response to an updated post by La Shawn Barber, who I have a great deal of respect for, but who I also disagree. Dean has a related posts here.
Like James Joyner, who enters the discussion here, I also have many concerns about some of the moral decline of America. I just believe that the argument that such declines preceed the downfall of a civilization are not backed by historical facts. If one wishes to argue that cultural decline preceeds the downfall of a civilization, I believe you are on to a more solid argument. One that is not, of course, without its own flaws. Part of what makes American culture so different than those others, though, is its ability to adapt and change over time. Further, if anything, American culture is still on the rise and spreading across the globe
La Shawn's argument actually is religious, if you go read her post. As a religious person--which I actually am to the surprise and shock of my readers (You thought I was kidding about being a Christian Universalist who happens to believe only Mormons go to heaven and that God is really a Buddhist?)--I believe La Shawn is basically right in her assessment and characterization of moral issues (with the exception of her not distinguishing between good gay and bad gay). As you all know I don't believe in gay marriage, as a rule, unless it is between two very hot chicks.
But, if you'll close your Qurans for a moment and open the Bible to the book of Ecclesiastes--the entire book--I believe you'll find that the good preacher notices something that many Christians today have overlooked. Let me quote him from the NIV, chapter 8, verse 10:
There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: righteous men who get what the wicked deserve, and wicked men who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless.
Indeed. Long before Gibbons poor observations on the decline of empire, King Solomon (ascribed) noticed that the wicked often prosper and the righteous often suffer. Buddha, for the non-Christian, made much the same observation. That is just life.
I would suggest to the religious-right in America, and this includes Doc Rampage who makes an even more overtly religious argument here, not to make the error that their theological reading of history is orthodoxy. Even if one were to read the Bible in this way, one might make the argument that God punished the nation of Israel when it was wicked, and blessed it when it prospered, but that Israel is a covenant nation, different then the rest. Rome was not Israel, and neither is America.
Rampage is right, of course, that this is 'in house' fighting. Chomsky hates America, La Shawn doesn't.
Further, I thought it was the Romans that killed Jesus, the encarnation of God in the flesh--something my Sunday School teachers taught was kind of like the ultimate sinful behavior--and yet Rome grew and prospered for hundreds of years after that. I also seem to recall something about throwing Christians to lions, crucifying Peter upside down, and even one emperor (Nero) using them as human torches. All of this, of course, as they were busy buggering (not being buggered, mind you) young boys in the traditional Greek fashion.
And as for China, the longest lasting empire, did you know that the practice of polygamy was not done away with until this century? I have a friend from Hong Kong who comes from the noble class. His grandfather had many wives, not even counting all the concubines.
Last, let me just clarify that I do not believe that America is really an 'empire' in the same way that Rome was or that modern polemists believe. I thought I had made that clear in the paragraph about definitions of empire, but I guess I hadn't. America is Iraq is not empire. California Mafia has a related point here.
However, if you were to define America's empire as within the boundaries of the United States, then I might concede the point. We certainly conquered a lot of territory, colonized it, culturally extinguished native peoples, and subjected them to our wills. Go to Hawaii. Forget Hawaii, go to Virginia. That seems a lot like empire my friends.
Posted by: Rusty at
06:08 PM
| Comments (32)
| Add Comment
Post contains 1520 words, total size 10 kb.
1
If you're going to wax poetic about empire maybe you should first define the term. Comparing, for instance, the U.S. to Rome is kind of stupid. Just because a contry is powerful and influential doesn't make it an "empire" in my book. Most empires I ever heard of get some land and tribute as part of the deal.
Posted by: Carlos at September 15, 2005 06:29 PM (8e/V4)
2
Yeah, we're actually the opposite of an empire, since we spend our wealth and blood for the sake of others' freedom, though nobody appreciates it. Personally, I wish we would say screw the world and let them eat one another, and nuke anyone to glowing embers who messes with us.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 15, 2005 06:35 PM (0yYS2)
3
Look if you're gonna use ethnic slurs, at least SPELL it right.....it's DAGO.
LOL.
Posted by: Laura at September 15, 2005 07:12 PM (L3PPO)
4
Getting Chinafied for tomorrow sounds good. I'm getting the Kung Pao. Mo likes her chicken spicey.
Posted by: Maureen at September 15, 2005 07:36 PM (ny5O/)
5
For all the people who condemn America for committing "genocide" (another word the left has coopted and corrupted), they should read up on the Punic Wars to find out what
genocide REALLY means.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 15, 2005 08:12 PM (CJBEv)
6
I liked what Michael Ledeen said a few years ago: China is a civilization masquerading as a nation-state.
Also what Jonah Goldberg said:
Now, the fact that we are not an empire, but could be one if we wanted to, confuses the dickens of all sorts of people. Indeed, some people find the idea so confusing they willfully refuse to believe it and just go on insisting we are an empire the way the guy in the Monty Python skit just kept insisting the parrot wasn't dead. ... Europeans who did have colonies and who did invade both their neighbors and distant lands for material gain — and, to be fair, for more ideologically complex motives — have a hard time computing that America isn't behaving the way they did. They think they've evolved past us, that they are on the same road as us and are simply a few miles ahead of us on the path to enlightenment. What they can't grasp is that America took a different fork in the road a couple of centuries ago. We can argue about who's on the high road or the low road now, but we're on different roads.
Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at September 15, 2005 08:22 PM (aL2tJ)
7
I don't like Chinese, but my cousin's wife from South Louisiana sure does make a mean "wop" salad.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 15, 2005 08:30 PM (q9AWQ)
8
God helps those who help themselves. The U.S. is better than everyone else at helping themselves in defense of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!
Oh yeah, right makes right.[done on purpose]
Posted by: The Uncooperative Blogger at September 15, 2005 08:42 PM (ud47f)
9
Yo, Vinnie the ninnie...
"Is anyone honestly suggesting that the Cole was bombed 20 years ago because America was a den of sinfulness on Ronald Reagan's watch?"
Well? It wasn't, was it? How's that for accurate?
Posted by: kermit at September 15, 2005 08:52 PM (DX+fh)
10
Most of the time, when the Legions were brought back to Rome, it was so they could put their commander in charge...So "the bring the troops home" folks better be careful....
Posted by: MKL at September 15, 2005 09:15 PM (3fpKJ)
11
Tsao's Chicken was invented in America! Wiki it! God Bless AMERICA, BAAYYYBEEEE!
Posted by: NewOrleanian at September 15, 2005 11:30 PM (d6mij)
12
Wow Vinnie's quite the little troll isn't he? Yes, I obviously mis-wrote, I was thinking about the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1983 under Reagan. The Cole was in 2000. Sorry 'bout that.
As for people at the State Department reading my blog: some of them do. :-)
However, I only made the statement because some Yemeni government weasels were reading it and I wanted to bug 'em.
Posted by: Dean Esmay at September 15, 2005 11:33 PM (98KKP)
13
By the way Rusty, I don't think I implied that Rome was the biggest Empire of all time, just the largest in history up until that time. Although now that I think on it, China may have been bigger at the time....
Posted by: Dean Esmay at September 15, 2005 11:34 PM (98KKP)
14
So the "America Sucks Right" is the Left's answer to the Right's "hate America Left"? Very clever. Kudos. You might actually get some traction with about 6 ignorant boobs out there.
Posted by: dcb at September 16, 2005 12:18 AM (8e/V4)
15
Dean,
That's fine, it was a minor point. The larger point, of course, being that the Romans weren't the end-all be-all of Empire.
All--on "empire",
I was being kind of snarky in the post. It's the concede the point that America is an Empire and then argue "so what?" The paragraph about definitions was supposed to kind of draw that out.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 16, 2005 07:59 AM (JQjhA)
16
As a conservative, I like to watch History Channel shows about Rome because of the interesting architecture and their regular people. In alot of ways, modern day culture is like Roman culture (not just in America), but in just as many ways, it is different. We all like going to sports arenas, we like spas, we like being social in large buildings and wearing cool clothing... It's the values of the people that are different. We value life much more than the Romans did, and our society is built around this core value. God bless America.
Posted by: RepJ at September 16, 2005 09:11 AM (XAq/v)
17
You rascist infidels! Even Karen Hughes addressed Muslims last week! And we all know Hillary kissed Suha Arafat!
"The Battle of Tours (often called the Battle of Poitiers, but not to be confused with the Battle of Poitiers, 1356) was fought on October 25, 732 between forces under the Frankish leader Charles Martel and an Islamic army led by Emir Abd er Rahman. During the battle, the Franks defeated the Islamic army and Emir Abd er Rahman was killed. The result of this battle stopped the northward advance of Islam from Spain. This battle is considered by most historians to be of macrohistorical importance, in that it may have halted the invasion of Europe by Muslims, and preserved Christianity as the controlling faith, during a period in which Islam was overrunning the remains of the old Roman and Persian Empires."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
Posted by: Demoralize Americans Telethon at September 16, 2005 11:52 AM (SgJ1P)
18
Just to clarify: I didn't mean to imply that I agree with the argument that God rewards and punishes nations today like he did Israel. I just wanted to point out that this isn't one of those specially-invented accusations that no one would pretend to care about except that it suits their rhetorical purposes. By contrast, the America-hating Left is always coming up with novel accusations. Expressing contempt for the US over things that they don't care about when it doesn't apply to the US.
Posted by: Doc Rampage at September 16, 2005 02:42 PM (6IZFG)
19
Rusty, the Romans were indifferent to Jesus' death. It was the Jewish pharisees who wanted Him dead because he was a threat to their corrupt religion.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at September 16, 2005 03:09 PM (OBX/n)
20
YBP: Welcome missed ya
Posted by: Howie at September 16, 2005 03:10 PM (D3+20)
21
But, DAT, I keep hearing from the MSM that the Crusades were the first wars between the Christians and the Muslims. The Christians started all the trouble with the Muslims. The Muslims were just a peaceful people minding their own business and would never attack a Christian. What are you saying here. Surely you must be wrong. The Battle of Tours you refer to was 300 years BEFORE the first Crusade.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 16, 2005 04:16 PM (q9AWQ)
22
Many, including well informed people like Dean Esmay, like to think of the Romans as brutal tyrants. By today's standards, they were. But, the value of life has been increasing since then. In their own time, Rome was the most civilized place on the planet, especially when it was still a republic. While they did commit acts of brutality, they also, just as frequently, opened their arms to the hoards they had conquered, offered to assimilate them, enrich them with Roman wealth, and even let them continue to worship their own pantheon of gods. The conquered were often astounded by how the Romans could so thouroughly trounce then on the battlefield, yet treat them with such mercy immediately after.
Posted by: Doug Purdie at September 16, 2005 05:16 PM (00DOn)
23
The Romans were so barbaric that they had elected leaders and public courts of law at a time when most people were living in tribes with hereditary aristocracies. We mustn't judge their faults by today's standards, but rather we should judge their accomplishments by their own day's standards, but of course, liberals never seem to be able to see the good in any system except, inexplicably, Communism, and conveniently manage to remain in a perpetual state of amnesia regarding the 100,000,000 (that's one hundred million) deaths that Communism has caused, and can only remember to mention that they have free health care.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 16, 2005 05:38 PM (0yYS2)
24
If today's China is a continuation of 500 AD China's empire than the US is surely a coninuation of the Brit empire, which is surely a coninuation of the Roman empire, which "Romanified" barbarian Europe when it was conquered, which was surely a continuation of ancient Greece, which "Greeked-out" Rome when it was conquered by Rome.
Posted by: Harkonnendog at September 16, 2005 06:15 PM (D+qeF)
25
Sorry Harkdog, but no. The US was founded as an entirely new entity based on principles taken from the Roman republic and Athenian democracy, with a dash of parliamentary procedure and a bi-cameral legislature, and was born as a confederacy which grew into a constitutional federal union of states.
Likewise, the British empire was a new entity, born of feudalism, and Rome became an empire after Julius Caesar subjugated lands outside the boundaries of direct Roman control. No Greek but Alexander ever had an empire, and it died with him. You can't compare apples to oranges like that, because there is no direct link from one to the next.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 16, 2005 07:35 PM (0yYS2)
26
Laura beat me to it. Jeez Rusty, if you don't know the word is "Dago," I shudder at what your local slice shop shovels across the counter and says is pizza.
Posted by: TC@LeatherPenguin at September 16, 2005 11:39 PM (kiH79)
27
Beth, you wascal!, WTF are you talking about? Don't be DESPICABLE! by diverging from the point!!!
Posted by: Intolerant Bugs at September 17, 2005 02:02 PM (6Jp/w)
28
Roman Empire almost made it as long as the Chinese. Rome was founded in 753 BC. Roman empire ended in Constanople (Istanbul) in 1453. Looks like the Chinese have them by 10 years acoording to your post.
Most conservatives I know, when comparing the US to the Roman empire, aren't doing it as a compliment, or for a love of all things Roman. Most references to Rome, from conservatives, are about the inherent evil and debauchery of that empire and how it relates to modern day liberalism.
Posted by: Chris at September 17, 2005 03:16 PM (M1mOT)
29
I have reservations about the Romans. as a left-handed person, I feel somewhat unconfortable about the Romans' practice of slaughtering left-handed children.
But still, they were good architects. And sculptors.
Posted by: Norbert the Gnome at September 17, 2005 08:05 PM (AJeHE)
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 18, 2005 12:28 AM (VhNDM)
31
I resemble your racist remarks...damn you!
Posted by: Digger at September 18, 2005 04:32 AM (QgVvl)
32
Why does all this talk of American foreign policy remind me of a penetratingly rancid scene in the film, "Caligula"?
"In the name of Rome?!"
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 18, 2005 07:14 AM (VhNDM)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Deep Thoughts...
by
Jeff Goldstein:
Shearer’s implicit argument that because not everyone who remained behind in NOLA could have been safely evacuated, attempts to evacuate some or most of those left behind could (should?) not have taken place clearly echoes the anti-war argument that because the US can’t simultaneously overthrow every tyrannical dictator in the world, it is somehow indelicate to rid the world of one (even if doing so jibes with our national interests)—and, in the process, frees 25 million people from a murderous Ba’athist rule.
Posted by: Rusty at
04:57 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 88 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Nice try, but they really is no valid tie in between NOLA and Iraq.
Posted by: Kstumpf at September 15, 2005 05:24 PM (gvpiY)
Posted by: Michael at September 15, 2005 05:29 PM (CM3Dm)
3
He's pointing to the mindset of one and how it is reflected in that of the other, Kstumpf.
Again we get another aspect of the party of "No". While one details the reasons why something cannot or could/should not be done, the other points out why it must be tried.
And they call themselves "progressive".
Posted by: Oyster at September 15, 2005 06:24 PM (YudAC)
4
In libspeak, where up is down and black is white, progressive means regressive or recidivistic, which makes perfect sense, and explains why they are infatuated with a 7th century death cult that wants to destroy civilization and take us back 1400 years.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 16, 2005 09:54 AM (0yYS2)
5
Few others could write a sentence like that and have it readable and sensible. Certainly not me! (See above.)
Posted by: slickdpdx at September 16, 2005 11:51 AM (MjGRu)
6
Thank you Oyster, I get that part. I still believe it is a weak attempt to bring the two independent circumstances to gether. That dog don't hunt.
Posted by: Kstumpf at September 16, 2005 03:35 PM (GImrl)
7
Kstumpf, I think you were the one trying to bring them together, not Rusty. ;-)
Posted by: Oyster at September 16, 2005 03:56 PM (fl6E1)
8
Now, really! Does anyone really care what Harry Shearer has to say about anything?
Posted by: Don Miguel at September 16, 2005 04:45 PM (+KixN)
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 18, 2005 07:15 AM (VhNDM)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Socrates: The First Liberal
Guest commentary by Bill Dauterieve:
I was watching "Black Hawk Down" yesterday night. It is a testament to the courage, honor and commitment of American soldiers. I liked the Hollywood treatment of soldiers as a bunch of different guys. You had Obi Wan Kenobi as a office clerk, the Incredible Hulk as a Fonzie like Delta Force fighter, and Lucius Malfoy from Harry Potter as a by-the-book Ranger. When they were under the gun, they set aside all their differences and fought as a single unit. They left no one behind.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
08:29 AM
| Comments (8)
| Add Comment
Post contains 416 words, total size 2 kb.
1
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. HULK ANGRY HULK SMASH, AND FAWKES THE PHOENIX JUST DROPPED A SURPRISE ON MY HEAD
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 09:21 AM (XGDTE)
2
If you liked the movie Black Hawk Down then you should read the book by Mark Bowden. It is far better in my opinion. The movie condensed many of the actual heroes of that fight into a few people in the movie. The book is far better at explaining all aspects including the politics, which the movie barely mentioned.
The most poignant comments in the book are where each member of Task Force Ranger said that they were all deeply disappointed that the Clinton Administration cut and ran without letting them finish the mission. That is a true testament to the courage of our armed forces that the Left have utter loathing for.
Posted by: John Mc at September 15, 2005 09:50 AM (y+I+a)
Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at September 15, 2005 10:14 AM (y1hCN)
4
Here socratees here is your drink of hemloc
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 02:33 PM (vnSBY)
5
Hey cool, I just learned about yet another asshole right-wing blog!
I'm referring to yours, incidentally. You seem like you're kind of slow, so I thought I'd clear up any doubt in your befuddled "brain."
Posted by: edddie at September 15, 2005 03:22 PM (uFFQ0)
6
Wow, I'm really impressed with edddie's spelling ability. He's just another dumn ass Lefty impressed with his own credentials. And it's a good thing he is, because no one else is.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 15, 2005 03:27 PM (q9AWQ)
7
Bill,
The textbook I teach Western Pol. Phil. makes basically the same claim. Of course, the claim So-crats is the father of radicalism has more to do with his epistemology than Bill and Ted.............
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 15, 2005 04:25 PM (JQjhA)
8
The key is simple - volunteers and excellent intensive training. This adds up to professionalism and everything else just falls in place.
Posted by: hondo at September 16, 2005 12:48 AM (4Gtyc)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 13, 2005
Lawlessness in Gaza, Riots in N. Ireland: Bush and FEMA to Blame
(Gaza Strip) Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has promised to put an end to "armed chaos" in the Gaza Strip, a day after the withdrawal of Israeli troops.
"No-one is above the law," Mr Abbas said in a televised speech.
"If these were white people stuck in Gaza," Abbas continued, "I donÂ’t have any [bleep]ing doubt there would have been every single helicopter, every plane, every single means that the U.S. government has to help these people."
Civil Rights groups in Gaza, such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas, have harshly criticized President Bush's FEMA team for their poor handling of the Gaza situation.
Community leader and Hamas spokesperson Mushir al-Masri was pleased at the announced resignation of FEMA chief Michael Brown Monday, but said the move did not go far enough.
"50 years of Zionist occupation and all the President could do was accept Michael Brown's resignation? Where was FEMA when they were needed? Did they send us money? No. Weapons? No. The least Bush could have done was send one of the twins for a martyrdom operation, inshallah."
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
07:22 PM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
Post contains 604 words, total size 4 kb.
1
I propose we send Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to Gaza on the next plane to get their take on the situation.
Meanwhile, back here in the states, I would recommend a committee headed by Marcos "uh, unscrew them," Molitias to see what the dumn asses on the Left propose. Oh, never mind on this one, they have already blamed it on Bush. But, what the hell, since this one is on the taxpayer, "live it up, Marcos" while you can.
Next, I recommend that the great Dr. Rusty Shackleford be allowed to form a committee of two with Angelina Jolie serving in an advisory role.
Whatever Rusty says goes! Got that shitheads on the Left. And leave Jackson and Sharpton in Gaza to fend for themselves. After all, they ARE among friends.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 13, 2005 09:21 PM (q9AWQ)
2
Good idea joe lets send jessie jackasson and al sharkton to iraq to negotiate with the insurgents let these idiots show their worth by doing this
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 09:36 AM (XGDTE)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Pull My Finger
Posted by: Rusty at
03:08 PM
| Comments (7)
| Add Comment
Post contains 6 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: Fersboo at September 13, 2005 03:41 PM (x0fj6)
2
I saw that earlier, I laughed my ASS off.
holy crap, haha
Posted by: Henry at September 13, 2005 07:57 PM (NdKxH)
3
Who is that hooed monster? is it MICHEAL ROCKFELLER?
Posted by: sandpiper at September 13, 2005 08:29 PM (g0rz7)
4
I'll guess Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: A Finn at September 14, 2005 02:43 AM (cWMi4)
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 14, 2005 07:42 AM (VhNDM)
6
Looks like Hanoi Jane to me....
Posted by: Susie at September 14, 2005 01:13 PM (a0oF7)
7
ITS ANDROSS,ITS COBROA COMMANDER,ITS DARTH VADER,ITS THE MOVIE STAR,THE PROFFESOR,MARY ANN,aaww heck its a person in a hood saying PULL MY FINGER
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 09:42 AM (XGDTE)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 12, 2005
Staying the Course in Iraq
Dean Esmay has an excellent post on the moral argument for staying the course in Iraq:
With some moral arguments, there really is no middle ground. I'd like to think there is but there isn't. So my suggestion--as "black and white" as it may sound--is simple: take a stand. Do you want to abandon those people in Iraq or do you not? Do we turn them over to the "freedom fighters" who bomb women and children and mosques and cops and elected politicians as well as our soldiers? Or do we protect the victims of those "freedom fighters," recognizing the "freedom fighters" as vicious fascist thugs and theocratic nutjobs, and try to help the real people, the overwhelming majority of the Iraqi people, establish a democratic, human rights respecting, and free nation?
I fully support Dean's argument. The time for debating a war, any war, is before it begins. Once it begins the only debate ought to be how to win it in the quickest manner. That is the duty of a patriot.
Further, I believe the war must be won for pragmatic and Realist (I mean this in the foreign policy school of thought sense) reasons. If we do not set up a government that will be allied with the U.S. in Iraq then we will be sending a signal to jihadi forces that terrorism works. Remember, Osama bin Laden first began to believe that America was weak and could be defeated after our retreat from Somalia.
The Left's freedom fighters who we are fighting in Iraq are intent on setting up a Taliban-like state. If they succeed, then not only has the cause of freedom been set back, but the cause of America as well.
Posted by: Rusty at
05:44 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 295 words, total size 2 kb.
1
"Once it begins the only debate ought to be how to win it in the quickest manner."
By staying or going.
Also, there is a problem with your 'time to talk is over.' We now have more information than before. We now know more about what was known before. So its really a different conversation than before.
Posted by: actus at September 12, 2005 11:34 PM (y/f3P)
2
There will be no ultimate win for us in Iraq, because to win would be to lose. Well, I'll put it a little less cryptically. Were we, rather than the Iraqi forces, to win against the insurgency then Iraq would end up as the same kind of "protectorate" that it was under British rule in the last century. So, in order to establish the legitimacy of something more substancial than an American colony the "freedom fighters" have to defeat the "insurgents." That will establish Iraq as a nation, and just about nothing else will.
And by the time all of this transpires in the way that it ought, the US will be out of the picture almost entirely. It has to be.
Consider that it was the War of 1812, and not the American Revolution, that really established the United States as a nation. And it was during that war, while watching the battle in Baltimore Harbor, that Key wrote
The Star Spangled Banner.
Posted by: Demosophist at September 13, 2005 02:18 AM (QKEx7)
3
"That will establish Iraq as a nation, and just about nothing else will."
Right. They will have purchased their OWN identity. Hence GW's words "When Iraq stands up, we'll stand down."
They will have to finish this war.
Posted by: Oyster at September 13, 2005 05:49 AM (YudAC)
4
Bushraq is a cluster and muddy boots sojias OUT!!!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 13, 2005 08:27 AM (VhNDM)
5
Right. They will have purchased their OWN identity. Hence GW's words "When Iraq stands up, we'll stand down." They will have to finish this war.
Well, that part's tricky. If we leave too late there will be no, or an insufficient, transfer of legitimacy. Remember Pantani's reaction when Lance gave him the victory on
Mont Ventoux. Nations act that way as well. And if we leave too early, of course, the Iraqi "freedom fighters" won't be ready to defeat the "insurgents" and we'll have another failed state on our hands.
So far I haven't seen anyone on the Left or the Right make this argument, because it requires a kind of judgment that neither is very familiar with. But I maintain that Americans will know what to do when the time comes. It's in our genes.
Posted by: Demosophist at September 13, 2005 09:36 AM (hoJy0)
6
Is Dean the only sane Liberal left?
Posted by: Howie at September 13, 2005 11:29 AM (D3+20)
7
Howard Dean? Huh? You're kidding, right? The only sane democrat that comes to mind for me is Zell Miller.
Posted by: Oyster at September 13, 2005 04:16 PM (fl6E1)
8
No I meant Dean Esmay. He says he is liberal I just assumed he was a Democrat. I meant liberal as in sane liberal. you know about assume it makes an ass of U and me.
http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/000052.html
Posted by: Howie at September 13, 2005 04:43 PM (D3+20)
9
But Howie Dean might be fun to get really drunk with at least he has personality. yeeeeaaaahhhh.
Posted by: Howie at September 13, 2005 05:11 PM (D3+20)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
It's Official: Nuking Terrorists Now on Table
The U.S. government has revealed for the first time that a pre-emptive nuclear strike could be used against terrorists who threatened America with weapons of mass destruction. The discussion paper was accidentally posted at a Pentagon Website over the weekend, but has since been removed.
The complete .pdf file can be downloaded here.
Washington Times:
A Pentagon planning document being updated to reflect the doctrine of pre-emption declared by President Bush in 2002 envisions the use of nuclear weapons to deter terrorists from using weapons of mass destruction against the United States or its allies.
Highlights from the document:
International reaction toward the country or nonstate entity that first employs weapons of mass destruction (WMD) is an important political consideration....Nevertheless, while the belligerent that initiates nuclear warfare may find itself the target of world condemnation, no customary or conventional international law prohibits nations from employing nuclear weapons in armed conflict.
In other words, nothing prohibits the US from initiating a first strike nuclear attack.
The document uses this figure to show the mix of nuclear and non-nuclear weapons that could be used in a premptive strike.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
12:58 PM
| Comments (27)
| Add Comment
Post contains 838 words, total size 7 kb.
1
"Oh Sayeed! Look! The sky is so bright tonight. Ohhh shabash what a sight!....oh....my skin is itchy....and burning.... Sayeed what is that smell....why are your robes on fire?"
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 12, 2005 01:27 PM (5ceWd)
2
Let's see, we should start with Damascus, Riyad, Teheran, Baghdad, and Islamabad, just to get their attention, then move on to second-tier cities and work our way down. Oh, and Detroit, can't forget that one!
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 12, 2005 02:13 PM (0yYS2)
3
The document decribes Iran and North Korea to the letter if read correctly.
They left quite a bit open for individual interpretation.
Plus, it's always been the US's prerogative to bust a cap in their enemy's ass without a vote or even the general consensus of the American public.
I personally think it's beautiful. Kind of brings a tear to my eye.
Been nice knowing ya fellas!
Posted by: elliott at September 12, 2005 02:15 PM (XlQVK)
4
I am assuming the mullahs in Iran got their copy by FedEx.
Posted by: From the Swamp at September 12, 2005 02:20 PM (7evkT)
5
HA! About time - like we hadn't thought that already.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 12, 2005 02:52 PM (jHRvj)
6
Actually I got a hold of this document two days ago, and I would have blogged it, but I fell asleep reading it! I don't know how you all stayed awake to read the whole thing. Maybe you didn't. Anyway, the response from al-Qaeda seems to be to
threaten a chemical attack. They're definitely testing U.S. resolve now.
Posted by: IO ERROR at September 12, 2005 02:54 PM (48Hov)
7
This is not anything new. While this may be the first time the actual discussion paper has been seen, it has always been the discreet policy of the US that any means necessary will be used to stop a WMD attack, or to respond to such an attack.
Of course, the shitheads on the left will try to spin this as some new dangerous policy that has the World on the brink of nuclear war. Their allies in the MSM will aid the lefties by giving them publicity.
THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW! The greatest danger to world peace and civiliztion as we know it is Islam. If you are a moderate Muslim now is the time for you to speak up, as it soon will be too late.
Islam has to be remade, or it will surely take all of us back into the dark ages. The amount of suffering and death and disease is too staggering to comtemplate. The fate of mankind hangs in the balance.
I mean no hate or disrespect, but you Muslims need to look inward and see if this is what you want. A world without any modern conveniences, medicines, air travel, electricity, automobiles, computers, and just about everything else you can think of. The city of Rome was not destroyed by barbarians until the aquaducts that brought water into Rome was destroyed. No one knew how to rebuild them, and the population melted away from 1.5 million to about 10 thousand.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 02:56 PM (q9AWQ)
8
IO, Rusty thinks this kind of stuff is sexy. Thankfully. Nukes should be on the table, given the fact that these folks - Islamofascists - haven't backed off in rhetoric one iota since we returned the favor of declaring war. I'm glad the powers-that-be have let their "slip" show.
Having nukes on the table should and hopefully will make the necessity to use them a bit more remote, which is a good thing. Since people on the left want to "retro"-fit this war, maybe it's time we agree. Let's just aim for WWII rather than Vietnam.
Posted by: tee bee at September 12, 2005 03:51 PM (q1JHF)
9
Mark my words:
This will be the decision that eventually starts WWIII.
The first ever serious attempt to justify using weapons of mass destruction as an instant retaliation, can't be a good thing for anyone, except a trivial joy for bitter people suffering from a deadly illness. If a WMD is used, it is suddenly ok for everyone to use two or three. You saw what happened with nuclear testing. Everyone figured 'Hell, if they got one we need to get one too and let 'em know we got it.' and now even countries with people who seriously believe in reincarnation got them.
Domino-effect... Don't you go knocking down the first block.
Posted by: A Finn at September 12, 2005 04:01 PM (eFE81)
10
Hey Finn,
This might be a surprise, but we've always had a 1st strike policy with the Soviets, even though their official policy was that they would never conduct a 1st strike on us. Even though we maintained a 1st strike policy thoughout the cold war, we never did.
The point is that this really isn't anything new. Pre-emptive is just another catch phrase for 1st strike. The only real difference is that in the past, we have targeted nations, now we are willing to target groups. However I severely question any politicians willingness to ok the use of Nukes. I don't think that even GW has balls that are bigger than Harry Trumans.
Posted by: Sgt Beavis at September 12, 2005 04:10 PM (XCqS+)
11
Sgt Beavis is dead on. The idea behind having a pre-emptive first strike policy is that this will deter the actual use of those weapons.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 12, 2005 04:29 PM (JQjhA)
12
Mr. A Finn,
Can't you read? This is not anything new. You are sounding like one of the dumn asses from the Left. This has always been the policy of the US.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 04:29 PM (q9AWQ)
13
And by the way, Mr. A Finn, World War III was started on September 11, 2001. By the very people you seem to want to protect.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 04:33 PM (q9AWQ)
14
I think Finn's argument is wrong, but within the bounds of discourse. His is a strategic argument, that the strategy is ill suited to the ends of winning. He might be wrong, but he's not trying to protect our enemies.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 12, 2005 05:55 PM (JQjhA)
15
A nazi ally in the Second World War, a Soviet patsy ever since... and a Finn thinks he has the right to criticize.
Posted by: DaveP. at September 12, 2005 06:21 PM (6iy97)
16
The First Strike policy is nothing new. The fact is, if we had to use nukes (first strike or not) we would use them. I would say this was slipped out as a warning to states like Iran and North Korea of the consequinces of giving Nuclear, Biological, Chemical or Radiological weapons to groups like Al Queda.
Personally I am glad this was slipped out. With North Korea and Iran resuming their nuclear activities and the obvious fact that AL Queda would love to get its hands on WMDs. Overwhelming force is the only thing that the Koranimals understand.
Posted by: Alex at September 12, 2005 06:54 PM (7wMwj)
17
I wonder if it really "slipped out"? It seems to me kinda like a gunfighter casually pulling his coat back to show his Colt Peacemaker.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 12, 2005 07:13 PM (0yYS2)
18
Jesusland, you are wrong
World War III was declared the day those crazy Iranians stormed the embassy and the hostage crisis began...
Posted by: Henry at September 12, 2005 07:47 PM (NdKxH)
19
If they decide to huke the terrorists could we get SEAN PENN to do the DR STRANGELOVE rotine? just like what SLIM PICKEN DID ride it al the way down you greenhorn BLA-WHOOM
Posted by: sandpiper at September 12, 2005 08:15 PM (AFJdY)
20
Last words of the Arab Man On The Street:
"
ABDUL WHAT'S THAT FLA -- ............"
Posted by: Macker at September 12, 2005 09:33 PM (2GH66)
21
The first ever serious attempt to actually
justify using WMDs... No-one justified anything during the Cold War, that was an inevitable 'shit happens' situation of 'if they might, we will, screw the consequences'.
A justification makes it ok to use 'em, so there's nothing but the (0,1*lightspeed/lenght of electric wire between launch codes and missiles) slowing down using it. In the Cold War it was at least a moral issue, with the hippies and uncertainty and everything.
Posted by: A Finn at September 13, 2005 04:21 AM (cWMi4)
22
Oh yeah, and DaveP., make two picks:
1.
a) An ally all the way from pre-Christian times all the way to this day, with only a few minor clashes which can be blamed on another country
b) An enemy all the way from pre-Christian times, 2-10 wars with it every century, one of those just a year ago, in absolute chaos and with a piece of paper that justifies taking you over
2.
a) A previously isolated country that has suddenly taken interrest in world politics after destroying the ally from pre-Christian times twice. Keeps shoving itself in your face, practically begging for recognition and attention, makes demands, tries to brainwash your people with a media overflow, gets in a coalition to stop you from getting into international organisations, openly states that your continent will be a nuke landing site once a war starts.
b) A previously hostile country now clearly learnt it's lesson, not making any demands after the big war is over, offers shelter from the other one in exchange for immunity in world politics. Doesn't try to make you do anything, doesn't meddle in internal affairs, doesn't even mind the fact that their leader party is illegal in your country and that your country makes twice more money from the trade between countries, as long you just act as a negotiator between your continent and them.
Posted by: A Finn at September 13, 2005 04:40 AM (cWMi4)
23
The mind boggles! Rusty, are you really a professor or just a propaganda merchant for the more hawkish members of the Republican Party. We need to be told!
Posted by: conor at September 13, 2005 06:55 AM (4PPsx)
24
Screw nucular bushipig plans
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 13, 2005 08:29 AM (VhNDM)
25
DSM, don't think you should be the one to say that, since those things might be dropping right next door to your house, if you're in Korea like someone said you are.
Posted by: A Finn at September 13, 2005 01:35 PM (lGolT)
26
Seriously, who thinks the US would ever
nuke anyone ever again? Nuking isn't exactly
a precise thing.... you can't take out a warehouse
without taking out the city that contains it
along with all the innocent people living
in that city. No one here is crazy enough
to do that, except maybe me, which is why
I don't run for president.
Hell, to be honest, I miss the days when we
used to level cities. It's a hell of a lot
easier to fight house to house when the highest
rooftop is six inches off the ground. I just don't
think we'd do that again.
Posted by: Slice at September 13, 2005 03:00 PM (ZSDaZ)
27
If the majority of the people gets absolutely furious about something, then using nukes becomes a likely option, but that would take a foreign invasion or a series of smaller things like extreme weather combined with terrorist attack and death of government members, with others gloating about all of 'em. So it will take a while unless someone of Arab lineage shoots Bush in New Orleans.
Posted by: A Finn at September 14, 2005 02:35 AM (cWMi4)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 08, 2005
Accountability Now!
I blame the President of the United States for everything. I mean, does the buck stop at his desk or not?
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
03:10 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 152 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: Carlos at September 08, 2005 03:16 PM (8e/V4)
2
He is also to blame for my expanding beer gut. His mishandling of the hurricane in addition to his extended summer vacation has caused me so much stress that I've had to drink more pints of Guinness than usual. Plus I've been too lazy to exercise, which is also partially Shrubya's fault.
Posted by: Preston Taylor Holmes at September 08, 2005 03:24 PM (5OTDA)
3
The really funny thing is the left actually believes this approach resonates with the majority of the American people. Thats how insular (and ineffective) they have become. They still can't fathom why the overwhelming majority of the voting military and veterans community rejected "a war hero".
Posted by: hondo at September 08, 2005 03:55 PM (4Gtyc)
4
Amen Hondo. What the heck happened to the Dems anyway? They had a few good men at one time. Now they just get worse every cycle. I think it's the fault of lazy moderates who just don't care leaving them (and somtimes both sides) to pander to the extremes for votes becuase all the people who have any sense are so turned off and cynical they don't even care anymore. I got news for those people. Ignoring it won't make it any better. get off yer arse.
I blame bush for sending me this cold to stop me from working so I cannot donate to help poor storm ravaged poeple. yes he and Chinees ducks pigs and chickens snuck in my house and sneezed on my doorknob.
Posted by: Howie at September 08, 2005 04:06 PM (D3+20)
5
You guys want to blame Bush for something?
Go here
Good for 50 points.
Posted by: Oyster at September 08, 2005 04:17 PM (fl6E1)
6
My wife has been sort of bitchy here lately. Damn W, damn him to hell. Oh, and the JOOOOOOOooooooooz!
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 08, 2005 04:48 PM (0yYS2)
7
I blame Bush for my being unable to score with this Hot Nun down the street from my methadone clinic!! Freakin Bush Hitler.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 09, 2005 07:52 AM (5ceWd)
8
GAAAHD DAAMMMAT! I just dropped my nuts in the toilet! FREAKIN BUSH!
Posted by: Ob Snooks at September 09, 2005 08:00 AM (5ceWd)
9
These dumb leftists beleive everything they read in the New York Times and what other rags they read
Posted by: sandpiper at September 10, 2005 07:18 PM (JyNSh)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 06, 2005
Conspiracy Theory at AP: U.S. Out to Kill Journalists in Iraq
Late last month a Reuters sound technician was shot and killed by a U.S. sniper.
We reported that incident here, including an account from an eye witness who claimed the Reuters crew drove into the middle of a firefight and the camera was mistaken for an RPG. At the time, we argued that any one found filming immediately after an terror attack should be a fair target within the rules of engagement since terror organizations such as Ansar al-Sunnah and al Qaeda in Iraq routinely film their exploits.
On Sep. 1 the military cleared the soldiers involved, essentially saying the news crew was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even though this story is at least five days old, the Associated Press decided to release a 'news' story about it today. The piece essentially rejects the U.S. military version of events, and then recounts other stories from Iraq in which journalists were accidentally killed. Thus, the picture that is painted is one of the U.S. intentionally targetting journalists.
The Associated Press could save themselves a lot of time and money by just running al Jazeera stories and al Qaeda press releases verbatim.
Posted by: Rusty at
01:24 PM
| Comments (10)
| Add Comment
Post contains 216 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Bunch of dirty journalists wonder why the GIs dont trust the low life scum just read the usial rags or listen to the talking heads and you,ll know why
Posted by: sandpiper at September 06, 2005 01:52 PM (rAMmL)
2
Killing journalists makes no sense whatsever,serves no purpose and is a waste of ammunition. Since we are going to be accused of it anyway why bother providing services, shelter, and assistance to them. Let them go off on their own and survive on their own. Their reports and communications can be an excellent source of intel especially the raw footage they upload via satellite (HEAR THAT INSURGENTS). They are fundementally mercenary and unscruplious and will trade information for access and stories to out do each other. (INSURGENTS LISTEN UP). Problem is their not actually in the field, they're farming that out to locals (good money) and underlings (lots of promises). The Names are all back in the hotels in Bagdad or hanging out in the Green Zone.
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 01:57 PM (4Gtyc)
3
Things Missing Or in Short Supply From Iraq/Afghanistan Newscoverage - interviews with soldiers, units, day to day stuff, living conditions etc - even combat footage is meager when you thing about it. They have access including embeds etc. Yet, can anyone remember a conflict with so little "coverage" of the bread & butter meat & potatoes of a war zone? Yes! "little coverage"! Except of course the politizing, potificating, and opinionated analysis virtually all originating from Bagdad.
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 02:13 PM (4Gtyc)
4
The AP thinks they're more "trustworthy" and will be taken more seriously than al-Jazeera. Problem is too many people think they are.
Posted by: Oyster at September 06, 2005 02:27 PM (fl6E1)
5
I actually think we should embedd journalists, which is what you're describing Hondo. It's all the non-embeds that seem to be the biggest problem.
Posted by: Rusty at September 06, 2005 03:13 PM (JQjhA)
6
At least the embeds have a harder time collaborating with the enemy to get "never before seen footage". I wonder too about how many reporters have been asked to come and film the opening of a school, hospital or newly running electric plant and turned it down because it didn't bleed.
Posted by: Oyster at September 06, 2005 03:40 PM (fl6E1)
7
You all miss the point - the coverage overall is actually miniscule. The journalists are frightened by the insurgents and Islamic fanatics. This is why they stay in Bagdad and farm out their work to locals (who need the work and money) and underlings (who want a career). They are not afraid of us. We are the Safe target - if they piss off the others they run the risk of having bullseyes on their backs. I say (soldiers in the field) embrace them (journalists), salute them, give them souveniors likes Captain's bars to pin on their hats, point them out and applaud them. I'm a nice guy.
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 03:57 PM (4Gtyc)
8
It's miniscule because they're getting most of their information second hand and from some with "less than desirable" motives.
Posted by: Oyster at September 07, 2005 05:34 AM (YudAC)
9
We dont kill journalsist no matter how rotten and left-wing they are we just call them liars
Posted by: sandpiper at September 07, 2005 01:59 PM (g1M1/)
10
OK sandpiper - your right. I realize what I was implying simply sets them up for someone else to kill - and that is still wrong. Sorry.
Posted by: hondo at September 07, 2005 03:37 PM (4Gtyc)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Terrorism in Iraq Update: Where is NY Times?
After reading a series of press releases from
Centcom about sucesses in Iraq, I decided to do a New York Times search of the past seven days, to see if the nation's leading paper of record was helping to disseminate the good news. Here are the results:
Sept. 2: Seven terrorists killed in the al-Rashid district of Baghdad
Sept. 2: Two IED makers captured near Abu Ghraib on tips from locals.
Two NY Times stories that mention Abu Ghraib, both about abuse at the prison.
Sept. 2: 12 terrorists captured with weapons cache East of Al-Amiriyah.
Sept. 3: Ambush foiled near Ad Duluiyah, 8 terrorists captured.
Sept. 5: 11 terrorists killed in after mortar attack on U.S. base near Balad, six more captured.
Here: 24th paragraph down, no mention of terrorists captured, or of why house was bombed.
Sept. 5: 11 suspected terrorists detained in Mosul.
Two hits, neither about this story or any other U.S. success.
Remember when being neutral meant being non-partisan and not indifferent to whether or not the U.S. loses its wars? There is no such thing as a Republican or Democrat war. The nation is at war. U.S. troops are fighting. Either the MSM will help win it or help lose it. Unfortunately, it seems lthat the NY Times has chosen the latter course.
Posted by: Rusty at
10:04 AM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
Post contains 235 words, total size 2 kb.
1
From what I've seen basically every major media outlet has chosen to help us lose. Well, we won't lose, but they're helping to drag the whole thing on.
They should be running pro-american propoganda for the U.S. government all the time. The nation as a whole isn't in the right mindset to win this war. The media could change that but won't.
Posted by: tyler at September 06, 2005 01:23 PM (Y9Lwb)
2
Ah, Tyler, you are a good Paduan!
Posted by: Rusty at September 06, 2005 03:13 PM (JQjhA)
3
Ah, Rusty, I would hardly say that the
New York Times... um, Slimes is "indifferent" as to whether or not the US loses its wars. I suspect the truth is more that they're
enthusiastic when the US loses its wars.
But, that's just me...
Keep up the excellent blogging!
-- R'cat
CatHouse Chat
Posted by: Romeocat at September 06, 2005 03:23 PM (dIews)
4
There may be two reasons for The New York Times's poor record of reporting good news in Iraq. The paper is really The New Liberal Times. Fortunately, we have an Australian, Art Chrenkoff, to act as counterbalance to the entire U.S. media.
Secondly, news doesn't sell. Bad news sells. If two newspapers sat on the news stand, side by side, with one showing a picture of a terrorist attack in Baghdad, and one showing Najaf school children happily accepting pens and paper from U.S. soldiers, the former would get purchased 10x more often than the latter.
It's sad, but that's how we Shaved Apes are.
Posted by: Don Long at September 06, 2005 03:23 PM (MKHkQ)
5
I wanted to thank the Jawa Report for posting such an interesting investigation on the main stream media. There are a lot of stories that are going on in theater that are not being put out. CENTCOM.mil has a variety of stories, including a link to what extremists are saying, please link to:
http://www.centcom.mil/extremistssay.asp.
There are many stories that can be linked to. I would ask Jawa to post a permanent link to centcom on his links page so that these stories can be read. Once again, thanks for your time and effort.
Posted by: US Central Command at September 06, 2005 07:47 PM (NgLBn)
6
The New York Times is look for more muck to rake over this hurricane karina stuff
Posted by: sandpiper at September 07, 2005 10:18 PM (ciw10)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Hurricane Porn and Rome
John from Wuzzadem has the latest hurricane related pornography (I assure you, Safe for Work). Hilarity ensues.
On a more serious note, the media are treating New Orleans like Rome's Colliseum. There is a race to see who can find the most tragic stories, and then find some one to blame. A certain bloodlust underlies their coverage. What is even sadder is that we, the American people, love this coverage.
Posted by: Rusty at
08:27 AM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
Post contains 78 words, total size 1 kb.
1
So who could ever trust these reptiles anyway you cant ever trust these liberal left-wing journalists
Posted by: sandpiper at September 06, 2005 09:03 AM (O2c+K)
2
Last night I saw Jessie Jackson on Lew Dobbs show. JJ could not find enough blame to shovel on the feds and President Bush. However, Dobbs was getting a little red in the face trying to Get double J to say anything critical about the State and Local mismanagement that occurred before and after the storm. It was a pathetic political hack job rather than a real appeal for relief for the people he cares so much about. IÂ’ll give some of my remaining money to Catholic Charities JJ, can keep trying to turn human tragedy into an attempt to keep himself relevant. (Do even Blacks consider him a spokesman anymore, or is he just a minority Ramsey Clark)? JacksonÂ’s self promotion was so transparent and partisan I canÂ’t imagine even the most liberal democrats are not embarrassed by him.
The stuff from Wauzzadem was hilarious and..The stuff on Rivera....I mean Rivers was not to far off what I actually saw on OÂ’rilley the other night. I think he did really say bro a couple of times.
Posted by: Brad at September 06, 2005 09:08 AM (6mUkl)
3
Hey Doc wake up! They found out who to blame 8 days ago. It is all the fault of Republicans. Reagan and Bush in particular. With a second villian being the Ugly, Racist American culture. There is (and has been) no looking for who to blame. Theat was determined 8/30/05. America is still a ugly culture as of 9/6/05.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at September 06, 2005 11:31 AM (03F0I)
4
That was so absolutely close to the naked truth it was scarey!
Posted by: Oyster at September 06, 2005 11:44 AM (fl6E1)
5
Jessie Jackasson what with this Nit Wit anyway? he should get off his soap box before he falls on his fool head
Posted by: sandpiper at September 06, 2005 01:59 PM (rAMmL)
6
Yes Dr Rusty! Truly creative and brilliant! A keeper!
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 07:32 PM (4Gtyc)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
207kb generated in CPU 0.0477, elapsed 0.1618 seconds.
133 queries taking 0.1316 seconds, 537 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.