A terrorism expert informed the U.S. Senate today that the threat from home grown al Qaeda terror cells is real. How is it that al Qaeda can recruit terrorists in the U.S.? The internet.

Trust me, many of you would be genuinely shocked at reading the amount support terrorists get from American Muslims on bulletin boards. Of course, they always hedge this support by first declaring that the terrorist in question is not really a terrorist.

So, when many of them say, I don't support terrorism, they really mean it. The devil, though, is in the details of exactly what constitutes a terrorist.

Muslim parents, do you know what your children are up to on the internet? Between porn and Islamic message boards, I'd be more worried about the latter.

UPI:

"We are uncovering the spread of new violent extremists networks and cells that lack formal ties or affiliation with al-Qaida or other recognized terrorists groups," said John Scott Redd, the direction of the National Counterterrorism Center in testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Tuesday.

"These new networks are often made up of disaffected, radicalized individuals who draw inspiration and moral support froom al-Qaida and other violent extremists. Group members are most often young, in their teens and twenties, and froom families that are second or third generation immigrants to their western communities. To the outside observer, these terrorists might well appear to be fully assimilated members of their western communities." ....

"In one case, two individuals who are U.S. Muslim converts were c caught robbing a gas station to support their attack plans in California. Possible targets included synagogues, the Israeli consulate in Los Angeles, and a National Guard facility," Redd said....

"The emergence of this new brand of al-Qaida inspired, homegrown terrorism group poses real challenges to the intelligence community, and we are grappling with a whole new set of questions," Redd said. "The challenge of countering these cells is complicated by the fact that they may operate virtually, with much of their communication and planning taking place over the Internet. This network of virtual contacts increases the relative stealth with which these terrorists can organize, communicate and plan potential attacks." [emphasis mine]

Posted by: Rusty at 04:55 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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One of the Canadian Jihadis arrested for plotting terrorist acts has been linked to the former cyberterrorist #1, Irhabi 007 (Irhabi translated means terrorist). You may remember Irhabi 007 from our previous lengthy discussions about the cyber jihad.

Irhabi 007 was a frequent poster at the Islamist mesage board Ansarnet. He first came to our attention after he posted a video of the beheading murder of Jack Hensley at the forum. He was banned from the forum, not for posting the beheading video, but for asking for money to cover his bandwidth costs!

Irhabi 007 was the greatest distributor of al Qaeda in Iraq propaganda videos on the internet for some time. Irhadi 007 is probably best known in the U.S. for the time he hacked the Arkansas State Department of Highways and used their server to distribute jihadi material.

Eventually, though, he got sloppy and was caught by British authorities as part of a three man cell of terrorists. Irhab 007 turned out to be Younis Tsouli, a 22 year old from West London. Tsouli has also been linked to terror plots in Bosnia, Sweden, Turkey and Holland.

So, the Canadian jihadis have been linked to both a British and American terrorist cell. What is the common thread? Internet forums dedicated to the Religion of Peace.

More background from Chad at In the Bullpen here and Allahpundit here.
more...

Posted by: Rusty at 09:27 AM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
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Looks like some one broke the internet again this morning. All of mu.nu and blogspot were down for awhile.

I mentioned the other day that we had been getting a slough of death threats following a mention of The Jawa Report over at Islamonline. My first reaction is that we were the victim of a denial of service attack out of Saudi Arabia. The reason that I am suspicious is that the Islamonline post also mentions jihadi hacker 020, who also took over Aaron's Rantblog once again today.

Here is a screenshot from the message he left at Aaron's hacked site today:

Hey, 020, nice try. But I'd be a little jumpy if I were you. Who is that knocking on your door as we speak.........???

Posted by: Rusty at 08:56 AM | Comments (11) | Add Comment
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Over the past few days a number of death threats have been e-mailed to various writers for The Jawa Report. The specific threat is that "God permitting, I will cut your neck."

Why would normally rational and tolerant people threaten to cut off our necks? Because some of our authors have dared to insult the Holy Quran. I'm sure those issuing the threats are simple misunderstanderers of the Quran's injuction to, you know, strike at the necks of the infidels.

And, just to keep things straight, we are all infidels. And proud of it.

It looks like the threats come on the heels of a posting at Islamonline. I can't make out the entire post, but it seems to be something about some "cowards" at an Islamic conference who didn't speak out violently enough against those who ridiculed Mohammed in those now infamouse cartoons, or who had blasphemed the Koran, in the discredited stories about "Koran flushing" at Guantanamo.

I did, though, understand the part about certain "vile sons of monkeys, pigs, and cross worshippers" followed by some links to various bloggers associated with The Jawa Report. Also, the poster notes that the call to arms against The Jawa Report comes on the heels of several attempts of online terrorism by "Saudi Hacker 020" --- a reference to the online terrorist who has been attacking Aaron's Rantblog (site currently under attack and down).

There's also some allusion to how when we do finally get attacked not to blame those killing us, but rather that it is the just punishment of Allah.

So, I insult the Quran and you threaten my life? I'm not sure if I should be scared or if I should strut around the office today gloating that I finally got my fatwa? I'll go with the latter.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta!

UPDATE: Death threat tracked to ......drumroll.....wait for it....I bet you're going to guess Switzerland, right? ......

Cairo, Egypt. Bet you didn't see that one coming, did you?

Vinnie's death threat.
Howie's death threat.
Bluto's death threat.

Posted by: Rusty at 09:09 AM | Comments (13) | Add Comment
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I was blabbing on the blog this week about how I had never received a direct death threat yet. Well the dry spell is over boys and girls.

From: hisham faiad h_faiad@yahoo.com Signed-By: yahoo.com | Mailed-By: yahoo.com

To: rustyshacklefordatympetjawa@gmail.com, mchlhwrd@gmail.com
Date: May 7, 2006 7:09 AM

Subject: why u insult the holly qouran ? why why

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/084371.php

why u insult the holy qouran ? why why
did u know any thing about the holy qouran ? he is the speaking of allah ( the good )allah give u ur head , hand , leg , face , eye ... etc and he can take this things all of this things so why u insult his speaking why why ? where ur mind go ? ur without mnid . allah Venge of u . i ask u somthing .

give me ur country & address and give somtimes to ............ cut ur neck
yes i willl cut ur neck beazn allah i will do that if ur brave give ur address and somtimes to killing u cut ur hand whiche Sacrilege the holy qouran

in shaa allah i will cut ur neck

Posted by: Howie at 08:35 AM | Comments (9) | Add Comment
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The AP is reporting that the Pentagon monitors thousands of jihadi websites. I'm seriously stoked to hear this. The Islamist use the internet to their advantage to recruit and disseminate propaganda. It's good to know somebody is watching what the enemy is doing.

Houston Chronicle via Robert Spencer:

A Pentagon research team monitors more than 5,000 jihadist Web sites, focusing daily on the 25 to 100 most hostile and active, defense officials say.

The team includes 25 linguists, who cover multiple dialects of the Arabic language and provide reports on events sparking anger on extremist Web sites, Dan Devlin, a Pentagon public diplomacy specialist, said Thursday. The researchers, for instance, focused in November on the backlash caused by the Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

The question I have for the Pentagon is this: Why haven't you shut them down?

Sure, we can gather intelligence from these websites. But what does this intel really produce? An occasional arrest of a jihadi wannabe? It's difficult, at best, to track down terrorists from information gathered on Islamist forums, and impossible to do so if they are posting to those forums from Iraq or Afghanistan.

So, again, does the value of that intelligence outweigh the damage done by the propaganda? I don't think so.

Here is a VOA report about the same Congressional hearing. It's really rather scary, and I believe it bolsters my position that these websites need to be shut down.

What they heard surprised even those who were somewhat familiar with al-Qaida and other groups use of the Internet to spread anti-American and anti-Western propaganda.

Bruce Hoffman is a counter-terrorism expert with the RAND Corporation.

"The internet, once seen as an engine of enormous education and enlightenment, has instead for many of these radical jihadi groups become a purveyor of the coarsest and most base conspiracy theories," said Bruce Hoffman.

Hoffman says nearly 5,000 websites are maintained by terrorist groups. More than a dozen groups producing their own video, and half of these he identifies as Iraqi insurgent groups....

Terrorist groups design their material to intimidate, particularly in the case of Iraq, in addition to spreading hate themes, and attempting to recruit new members. Some web sites openly advertise for internet or information specialists.

The presentation drew this reaction from Democratic Congresswoman Anna Eshoo, and Republican Mike Rogers.

ESHOO: "We're reminded that terrorism is psychological warfare and that is really what is being waged with these."

ROGERS: "They are very sophisticated. Not only are they out recruiting individuals they have finance networks globally, they recruit people globally. They also have a media message targeted at specific groups. That is a very sophisticated global operation."

What, if anything, can be done? Bruce Hoffman says the challenge is to match military and other steps aimed at depriving terrorists of physical sanctuaries, with action in cyberspace:

"The success of U.S. strategy importantly, will depend on our ability to counter al-Qaida and the radical jihadis ideological appeal, what I call countering the five R's: the resonance of their ideological message, their ability to recruit and replenish their ranks, and their capacity for regeneration and renewal we have seen in recent years," he said.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:33 AM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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After being mentioned without being really mentioned today on CNET. Aarons.cc has been hacked again.

The hacker left this email address. Mail To : 020@xp020[dot]com

Seems to me these guys have caused enough trouble and not just for Aaron.

Jawa Report Online Terrorism Archive. more...

Posted by: Howie at 09:19 PM | Comments (16) | Add Comment
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Nine people were killed in Tel Aviv by the 21-year-old Islamist jihadi nutcase, over 60 were wounded, in the Palestinian Islamic Jihad-conducted Passover bombing!

There are Five Official Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Sites (currently active online)

Eight Service Providers Keep Them Online, and they have been doing so for months - in some cases, years.

You will find that six of Those Service Providers are American Companies.

Should we be waiting for someone else to deal with the problem?

Bonus: Here are the top ten Salafyist/Jihadist sites on the Internet.

Hat tip - Internet Haganah

Cross posted from Hyscience

Posted by: Richard@hyscience at 09:21 AM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
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Aaron is the victim of online terrorism...again. He's been put on a hit list at jihadi websites because of his over-the-top mocking of Mohammed. I'm soo jealous. Here's a screenshot of his website now. Good luck in getting it back up. Thanks to The National Institute of Truth for the tip.

Update: Egyptian Sandmonkey has a translation of the original message left by the infamous al3isnet crew the other day.

Posted by: Rusty at 07:08 AM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
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Our good freind Aaron has been hacked by the al3iznet crew. You can see a captured image of the hacked page here. It appears that he was targetted for his promotion of the Mohammed cartoons as this particular group of online terrorists has turned their attention to supporters of free speech in Denmark.

The group is well known and has hacked the Kingdom of Bahrain's website in the past. They've also targetted several Danish bloggers such as Nodblog and Uriaposten. So, Aaron ought to feel himself in good company.

Apparently, the cyber attack originated from Saudi Arabia. You mean to tell me there are terrorists from Saudi Arabia? I don't believe it!

Beth calls this the online equivalent of a fatwa. I'm sooooo jealous. All this time I've put in for a fatwa and what do I get? Nothing!

Ever wanted to e-mail an online terrorist? It just so happens that we have the e-mail address of the crew responsible for the wave of online terrorism:

al3iz@hotmail.com

Why not drop a line and let this guy know what you think of him.

UPDATE: It looks like another old friend, TC Leather Penguin, was also hacked, but he's back up again. As McGehee notes, both attacks were on Word Press users. The same can be said of the Danish bloggers who were attacked. Is there a flaw in Word Press that the ROPers have learned to exploit to their own advantage?

Posted by: Rusty at 09:26 AM | Comments (8) | Add Comment
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The Tracking Terrorism website has been hijacked by a hacker seeking autonomy for Northern Cyprus. The website, which normally tracks the activities of terror organizations through open source material, greeted readers with this message today:

Hacked by Kelmahir

We are from Turkish republic of northern cyprus...We want to freedoom
for Turkish republic of northern cyprus

Posted by: Rusty at 11:25 AM | Comments (1) | Add Comment
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Here is a link to a Powerpoint presentation saved by John Donovan that accompanied a lecture given by Rear Admiral Bill Sullivan, the Vice Director for Strategic Plans & Policy on The Joint Staff (the J5). The venue was the Executive Lecture Forum, Radvanyi Chair in International Security Studies, Mississippi State University, entitled “Fighting the Long War--Military Strategy for the War on Terrorism”.

Go check out John's take here.

My initial response is WOW. The military seem to actually get what is at stake in Iraq. Admiral Sullivan discusses the long-term goal of Salaafism as the restoration of the Caliphate and the al Qaeda strategy of turning Iraq into the central base of operations for the future Islamic empire.

The military also seems to get that two of the main tools used by terrorist networks are the media and internet. However, I see nothing in the presentation on how those two tools of the enemies can be removed.

My own personal view is that the internet jihad needs to be counterattacked. Up to now, there has been virtually no real effort made to treat the terror presence on the internet as a military matter.

Many law enforcement arrests have been made (not nearly enough), but if this is a war we are in then we must treat the internet as an instrument of war. You do not fight a war with indictments. It is precisely the fact that there is no due process in war that differentiates it from normal police work.

So, how does the military fight the internet jihad? It can't.

We must understand our enemies as non-hierarchically organized networks of like minded individuals. There are literally thousands of websites, chat rooms, and forums which spread the jihadi doctrine. Law enforcement cannot hope to close down all of these websites and the military is simply not designed to fight it. A centralized command structure cannot fight such a network since each cell is not connected to the others.

So, is there a way to fight the internet jihad? Yes, there is. Cyber-privateering.

Fight fire, with fire. The only way to win the cyber-war is by removing the propaganda outlets of the enemy. State actors, though, are limited in what they can get away with on this front. However, there are millions of hackers out there who do have the tools necessary to take down these websites. They could actually be more effective if a) government resources and programs were added to their arsenals b) like privateers of old they were shielded from the retribution of the laws of foreign countries.

Privateers of old were private citizens given free reign to wreak havoc on enemies. Unlike privateers on the high-seas, there is no financial gain to be had from shutting down an enemy website. That is why cyber-privateers ought to be given a bounty for each terrorist website they take down. In addition to bounties, cyber-privateers could be given immunity from prosecution both abroad and at home. Expect to hear more about cyber-privateering from me in the future.

Along with taking the long-war seriously, we must also take the cyber-war seriously. Winning both will require new ways of dealing with threats.

Posted by: Rusty at 03:34 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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1 Heh. How Chinese of you, Rusty. Peoples War. You are espousing the exact approach the Chinese propound. And are executing, every day.

Posted by: John of Argghhh! at March 17, 2006 04:26 PM (rBMZ5)

2 Cyber-Privateer, that appeals to me both professionally, and personally on so many levels!

Posted by: davec at March 17, 2006 04:53 PM (CcXvt)

3 That's is fricken brillant. CYBER PRIVATEERS, HELL, I even like the name. And Congress could grant "Internet Letters of Marque." That is a suggestion outside the box, BIG TIME. Kudos for thinking of it, and kudos for having the savvy to conjure up the whole idea. I'm going to call some Congressmen on Monday and refer them to your website, and your suggestion. I also suggest that you email this post to Thomas P. Barnett, who can be contacted through his website. I don't agree with everything that Barnett says, especially his idea of accepting the mullahs getting nukes, but the guy is connected, and he definitely has an eye for ideas that are outside the box. So contact him.

Posted by: Dan at March 18, 2006 12:50 AM (GAtBS)

4 Fantastic idea.... Run with it.

Posted by: blert at March 18, 2006 02:17 AM (zqIhB)

5 Rusty, this is an interesting idea, and normally, I agree with you, but in this case, I think you make a few incorrect assumptions. You said, "Up to now, there has been virtually no real effort made to treat the terror presence on the internet as a military matter." Do you know this for sure? I think it is being very much treated as a military matter, and in fact, the military is both trained and equipped to fight a cyber war, and they exercise their capability quite often. Simple ideas espoused on foreign websites are not the danger, and even though some sites traffic in the exchange of jihad videos or executions and beheadings, it is still open expression of ideas. Really cruddy ideas, but thats all. Jihadists, like liberalism is better if it is exposed and in the open. Leave it to people to judge it for themselves and reject it. Also, launching attacks and taking down websites would likely be very counter-productive. They are free open sources of intelligence, and the US intelligence agencies are paying attention and using them to gather intel. Shutting down the sites would eliminate those sources. All this said, there are real cyber dangers posed by jihadists, and I'm not talking about defacements of pro-Israeli websites or sabre-rattling on a message board. The real dangers are the same that face us every day- Using the internet to launch denial of service attacks or intrusions against the national critical infrastructure that may be connected to the internet, including the banking system, SCADA systems and others. Also, there are dangers posed by jihadists using phishing and other techniques to steal the identities and ultimately, cash from Americans and then using the stolen loot to finance real world attacks against Americans and their allies. These are attacks that you cannot see happening very well. And unfortunately, there is not much that average citizens can do to privateer against this- except to deny hackers the use of your own PC as a participant in a botnet, and you do this by patching and keeping your system clean.

Posted by: Pat at March 18, 2006 11:33 AM (3LGfC)

6 hackers do not create botnets.

Posted by: davec at March 18, 2006 04:54 PM (CcXvt)

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For those of you interested in the private fight against public terrorists, these articles are for you. This is a follow up to our earlier report on the arrest of the internet's #1 cyber-jihadi, Irhabi 007. more...

Posted by: Rusty at 03:35 PM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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The identity of Irhabi 007 (also known as Qaeda 007 & Terrorist 007) has finally been revealed by the SITE institute as Younis Tsouli, a 22 year old from West London. Irhabi [which means 'terrorist' in Arabic] 007 was one of the most prolific internet jihadis of the last several years. The FBI had been actively tracking down Irhabi 007 for at least a year. Aaron at Internet Haganah had been tracking him for even longer.

According to SITE, Younis Tsouli was among four terror suspects arrested by Scotland Yard on Oct. 21, 2005. Tsouli, aka "Irhab 007", may have been involved in a plot to attack the White House. He has also been linked to a string of arrests in Europe--including Scandinavia--over plots to commit acts of terrorism all over the Continent.

Through his contacts with al Qaeda in Iraq and other terror organizations, Irhabi 007 put up scores of posts. Among his many claims to fame, it was Irhabi 007 who first posted the al Qaeda video of Jack Hensley being beheaded at an Islamic forum. more...

Posted by: Rusty at 06:16 PM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
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Al Qaeda and the global salafist jihad network can be beaten, but not through traditional military force. The terrorists can only be beaten when we take away their major tool for recruitment and training--the internet. more...

Posted by: Rusty at 04:54 PM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
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British Muslims honest enough to tell us what Muhammed and his followers did to those who blasphemed: killed them. Funny, I don't recall reading any stories of the Buddha killing the Hindu Brahmans who scorned him, nor do I recall stories of Jesus murdering the Pharasees. I thought all religions were basically the same?

Via the Blogfather Charles Johnson who got it from HNN, this interesting post by British Jihadis. It is appropriately titled Kill those who insult the Prophet Muhammad:

At the time of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) there were individuals like these who dishonoured and insulted him upon whom the Islamic judgement was executed. Such people were not tolerated in the past and throughout the history of Islam were dealt with according to the Shariah. KaÂ’ab ibn Ashraf was assassinated by Muhammad ibn Maslamah for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his words, Abu RaafiÂ’ was killed by Abu Ateeq as the Messenger ordered in the most evil of ways for swearing at the prophet, Khalid bin Sufyaan was killed by Abdullah bin Anees who cut off his head and brought it to the prophet for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his insults, Al-Asmaa bintu Marwaan was killed by Umayr bin AdiÂ’ al-Khatmi, a blind man, for writing poetry against the prophet and insulting him in it, Al-Aswad al-Ansi was killed by Fairuz al-Daylami and his family for insulting the Messenger Muhammad (saw) and claiming to be a prophet himself. This is the judgement of Islam upon those who violate, dishonour and insult the Messenger Muhammad

Shortly after these incidents the people began to realise that insulting the Messenger of Allah (saw) was not something to be taken lightly and that by doing so would mean that you would be killed for it, a concept that many have seem to forgotten today

The insulting of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) is something that the Muslims cannot and will not tolerate and the punishment in Islam for the one who does so is death. This is the sunnah of the prophet and the verdict of Islam upon such people, one that any Muslim is able execute. The response of the Muslims all over the world shows us the inability to deal with such people, the kuffar are attacking our Messenger and are allowed to get away with it whilst the Muslims have no power to do anything about it. The leaders of the Muslim world have no care for the deen of Islam as they are busy cementing their seats content with their power and wealth. Where are the Muhammad ibn MaslamahÂ’s of our ummah who will defend the honour of our beloved Messenger and rise the banner of Tawheed high?

But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief - for surely their oaths are nothing to them - so that they may stop (evil actions). [9:12]

And just in case they try to deny that they wrote this when the British authorities come knocking at the door, I've backed up the original webpage here. Simply click on the screen shot below of al Ghurabaa's home page to see the archived original:

more...

Posted by: Rusty at 11:21 AM | Comments (33) | Add Comment
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1 The fine fellow you speak of Rusty says horrid things about me Gran and how he wants to "gasp" put something in her Batty hole what ever that means. So I found out where this goat shaving pimp actually sends out his hate filled spew and it is in Birmingham UK at a learning center for Kids.(with a program for adults) I would like to punish this ass like we did Wasim. Any ideas?

Posted by: Filthy Allah at February 02, 2006 12:05 PM (5ceWd)

2 Let me think about it for a bit. Any British readers in Birmingham would be welcome to go down and check out the premises, though.

Posted by: Rusty at February 02, 2006 12:18 PM (JQjhA)

3 Good Lord.

Posted by: Oyster at February 02, 2006 12:36 PM (5pqct)

4 Holy crap. To think we are allowing such folks to immigrate to our countries in such large numbers. Frightening. WAK UP WHITE PEOPLE!!!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 02, 2006 12:57 PM (8e/V4)

5 And *I'm* the one accused of having inflammatory views.

Posted by: Vinnie at February 02, 2006 01:00 PM (f289O)

6 OT: Is anyone able to get to LGF?

Posted by: Ariya at February 02, 2006 01:41 PM (uxW3N)

7 "...I don't recall reading any stories of the Buddha killing the Hindu Brahmans who scorned him, nor do I recall stories of Jesus murdering the Pharasees. I thought all religions were basically the same?" No, you didn't One of the distinguishing things about Islam as practiced today is that it demands respect. Dr. Shackleford's remarks reveal moral values that even religions are subject to in the West. Man judges God, and if God demands unniceness, God is shown the door. And that's how I like it. It's been many years (and happy ones at that) since any church in these parts managed to evoke serious killings for Jesus from the congregation. Even hinting at it is mighty fringe. Nobody sings "Onward Christian Soldiers" if he ever intends to hold public office in the U.S. While I like this, I wonder if the modern unwillingness to kill heretics, heathens and witches for the Church reflects a decline in zeal that will end in unwillingness to kill for the right to *go to* church. For whatever faults they may have, this isn't going on with the Muslim. Quite the contrary. They demand respect for their religion, and they get it. Just ask our recently unemployed French newspaper editor. They get respect from me too. I respect Islam, the power of nature, rattlesnakes, and a big, drunk trucker whose wife I bumped into. A wise man might make jokes about these things, but only from a safe distance. It doesn't look like Europe will be safe enough.

Posted by: ShannonKW at February 02, 2006 01:42 PM (dT1MB)

8 Several websites I visit have been flakey all day. LGF also off and on

Posted by: Howie at February 02, 2006 01:47 PM (D3+20)

9 Great article. Anyone care to discuss what they think is the difference between free speech and hate speech? As a firm believer in free speech and an incredulous observer of recent events regarding those very unexciting cartoons, this seems very important. Brad Pitt poses as Jesus Christ without much comment, and yet handdrawn silly cartoons of you-know-who causes riots and death threats?????? And the "accepted" rationale (by some) is that the cartoons are somehow "hate speech?" --something is seriously out of whack. In the West, I think we work under the assumption that you shouldn't engage in hate speech. SO this hate speech rationale is currently being used by some to justify the censorship of free speech. So, it is important to decide: when does something become hate speech? Is it in the eye of the beholder? or is it the intent of the speaker? Or, is it the norm of the day which sets the standard? Are there different norms for different groups? (OK to satirize Christians, not ok to satirize Muslims) etc.

Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 01:51 PM (aH6Zf)

10 I started to get worried when the tree I was hiding behind started to shout "THERE IS A JEW HIDING BEHIND ME!" *yawn* My second amendment rights are there to protect my first amendment rights.

Posted by: Laurence Simon at February 02, 2006 02:05 PM (uBCxH)

11 Actually Shannon, the muslims aren't demanding respect for their religion, they're demanding FEAR of their religion, there's a difference. Respect is a two way street. If that's what they were looking for, they would seek to achieve it by showing tolerance and co-operation with other religions and the laws of their adopted countries. When violence is used or even merely threatened, debilitating fear is the goal. If that rattlesnake, or even the big, drunk trucker moved onto your property and started restricting your movement and activities, would your "respect" keep you from doing anything about it, or would you make a stand?

Posted by: Graeme at February 02, 2006 02:10 PM (CQyra)

12 "...when does something become hate speech?" Maybe classifying hostile talk as "hate speech" and banning it is a bad idea in the first place. You can't keep people from hating each other. We should encourage them to announce their hatred and whom they hate. Wouldn't you rather know who your enemies are? Besides, it's a big help to the boys at Homicide. The concept of hate speech has mommy-thinking written all over it. There is a certain kind of domesticated, overcivilized person who thinks that if you force everyone to talk nice to each other that means we're all friends. It probably explains why hate speech has caught on among the Euros more than the Americans.

Posted by: ShannonKW at February 02, 2006 02:13 PM (dT1MB)

13 This is the MSM elite liberals fault, and Clinton! Just wanted to get that of the way to clear up the discussion. Carry on.

Posted by: Human-Animal-Hybrid at February 02, 2006 02:34 PM (YClF7)

14 No, it's clearly "Bush's" fault, and "Pat Robertson's" fault. Islam is coming out of the closet. If Libtards still can't see it, it's because they don't want to see it. Because they see the world as they wish it were, not as it is.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 02, 2006 02:37 PM (8e/V4)

15 Graeme, Of course not, but then again I'm wierd. I'm trying to keep alive the ancient tradition of respecting my enemies. So, the interloping big, drunk trucker on my property would get not mockery and insulting jokes from me, but a shotgun blast to the chest. That's my idea of respect. It's interesting that you should point out the distinction between fear and respect. In religious context they traditionally mean the same thing. The last passage in the Old Testament (if memory serves) "Fear God and keep the commandments" is a fine example. I think modern Christians are prone to distinguish fear from respect in this case, but I suspect the cartoon-raging crowd does not.

Posted by: ShannonKW at February 02, 2006 02:37 PM (dT1MB)

16 Sounds like if cartoonists kill Muslims it should be considered self-defense now. As far as Hate Speech goes, I find it funny that the only people who practice hate are only in White Face, never in a turbin with a koran or anyone else. How odd that liberals would conjure up such a phrase and only use it against one group to berate them. How very odd for them to call themselves tolerant too. Also how odd they call for toleration of everything that is intolerable, least you be called a "hater." Sounds like this "tolerance" they prattle about is really a clarion call for being a sniveling coward in the face of an enemy that has openly said they'll kill you. Time for the balls to drop and become men again.

Posted by: Andre at February 02, 2006 02:40 PM (bQ3vG)

17 Don't be dissin' Mo n' his homies or day be bustin' caps on yo ass n' all over da place! PEACE V Violence and fear of violence - that's Islam's answer - to cartoons. Respect us and don't do anything to offend us in our home (or your home for that matter) or we will hurt you! Some answer - says a lot about them. Anyone want to dance around this - the violence and threat of - IS REAL! Interesting part is whether it works or not. I think it will with the Euros and other similars around the world. And the next issue that comes to the surface - say like honor killings - then what? Violence and the threat of violence does work and is an effective tool in dealing with the weak of knee and spirit.

Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 02:41 PM (3aakz)

18 I hope the local 'slamotards get uppity, but this is the South, so they probably know better.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 02, 2006 02:51 PM (0yYS2)

19 Well, I'm only asking us to clarify "hate" speech versus "free" speech because Clinton is getting press and he is basically claiming that the publication of the cartoons constitutes "hate" speech. He's the only politician I see saying anything about this and he's on the wrong side - watch this become the topic of MSM discussion rather than the reality that there are a group of madmen afoot who terrorize for submission.

Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 03:09 PM (aH6Zf)

20 Like beauty - it is in the eye of the beholder - or in his particular case - the opportunist.

Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 03:14 PM (3aakz)

21 I feel a "No, I am Spartacus" moment coming on. Been reading about alot of other papers now publishing the cartoons. Maybe I'll make a few copies myself for distribution here and there.

Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 03:24 PM (aH6Zf)

22 This website has been called a 'hate' site because we hate the religious fascism of Sharia. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Posted by: Rusty at February 02, 2006 03:25 PM (JQjhA)

23 Gawd, calling this a hate site. The people who do that should get off their soapbox and the dole, get out experience life, get a job and a life too.

Posted by: Andre at February 02, 2006 03:28 PM (bQ3vG)

24 I understand what Shannon is saying about "respect". He means respect in same manner I do; having a healthy respect for what they are capable of rather than they themselves or the ideology. And keeping an equalizer close at hand. Meet Señor Glock!

Posted by: Oyster at February 02, 2006 03:40 PM (5pqct)

25 Ah, Senor Glock, meet Socom. He is your daddy! And perhaps we now know why no radical Muslims in the US are making death threats. They are used to making every kind of threat in Britain with nothing being done, but threats here in the US will land them in jail or on the virgin train.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 02, 2006 03:45 PM (rUyw4)

26 Give hate a chance Sad day when an anti-Sharia site is considered a "hate" site. Under Sharia, I would have no freedom at all. In fact, I believe I would be chattel. That's a very frightening and humbling thought which is why i thank you for this site.

Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 03:48 PM (aH6Zf)

27 oh, Patty, you're just being ethnocentric. Try not to be so close-minded and intolerant about it. It's their "culture", which means it's all good.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 02, 2006 04:13 PM (8e/V4)

28 Hate is an emotion that keeps us from being suckered by liberals.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 02, 2006 05:47 PM (0yYS2)

29 I prefer common sense and faith Maxie - hate doesn't do anything for me.

Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 07:23 PM (3aakz)

30 They are an entire race of sociopaths. Islam represents the last holdout of the caveman. The world would be so much better off without it and muhammad and allah.

Posted by: antimuhammad at February 03, 2006 12:27 AM (ifHl0)

31 Common sense and faith are what keeps civilized people from doing what they desperately need to do. Hate is the safety valve to keep everyone from being slaughtered like sheep by the barbarians of the world. Islam is a plague, and if more decent people don't embrace a healthy hatred of islam, we will keep allowing the plague rats to scurry amongst us.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 03, 2006 09:32 AM (0yYS2)

32 03FEB06 I came across the news item about "the world's 1.2 billion Muslims" being enraged by the cartoon depicting Allah in a Danish news paper back in September. (Interestingly, I can't find it anywhere so as to take a look at what all the fuss is about.) It appears many of these (Muslims) now feel justified in calling for the perpetrators of said affront to Islam to be hunted down and killed. What we increasingly seem to be dealing with is - an issue of soverignty. Does Islamic law supercede the laws of the West and those of other cultures? If I'm not mistaken, they (the Muslims) seem to think so. They do not make the distinction between politics and religion and believe it is their Manifest Destiny (sound familiar to you Americans?) to impose their grotesquely violent, hypocritical, pious, medieval Islam on Allah's Allah-Forsaken Earth. Can they dissuaded from following their jihaddist path? Can they be persuaded to be tolerant of others and their beliefs? Can they be persuaded to integrate their culture with the other cultures of the world community? What have we seen since Usama declared jihad on America? What have we seen in Iraq, in Afghanistan, Iran, Palestine, and Syria? Should we continue to sit on our thumbs? Most hormonally imbalanced, ignorant male Muslim jihaddists don't live long enough to see their 40th birthday, they are always eager to go out and kill where they think the odds are in their favor. Like all people their age they think they are indestructable because they are both stupid and ignorant. Eventually, they wake up dead. Interstingly, when the old Islamic degenerates pulling the puppet strings survive an attempt on their lives they are more than willing to adopt the enlightened philosophy of negotiation and compromise or at least affect to do so. They'll do anything to keep things exactly so that they can continue to be in charge and alive. Either Islam will have to change or it will have to be eradicated like Islam has attempted to eradicate Zoroastrianism. The change will have to come from the top down, like everything else in a medieval society, and will have to be enforced upon the Islamic elite with the very methodology used in imposing Islam upon others: violence and death.

Posted by: Don R. d V. at February 03, 2006 09:42 AM (DHx5e)

33 Graeme put it right: Respect needs to be earned. Respect to me means sensing an essential goodness in a person, e.g. love, compassion, generosity and truthfulness. Jesus Christ, Buddha or Ghandi, for instance, command my respect. Fear, on the other hand, is much easier to obtain, any school bully with a baseball bat can do the trick. No matter how much fear threats against "kuffar" will be able to incite, they will not bring forth even one grain of respect. Quite the contrary.

Posted by: No to Sharia at February 26, 2006 03:31 PM (OXXW/)

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The newspaper which carried the originally 'offensive' cartoons has caved. My feeling is that the Danes will never cave. So, continue to buy your Danish pastries, beers, and porn. I'd lay off purchasing the latest copy of Jyllands-Posten, though.

Via Is Full of Crap this from JPOST:

A Danish newspaper on Monday issued an apology to the world's Muslims for publishing caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad that sparked a furor in the Islamic world.

The drawings "were not in violation of Danish law but have undoubtedly offended many Muslims, which we would like to apologize for," the Jyllands-Posten's editor-in-chief Carsten Juste said in a statement posted on the paper's Web site.

Posted by: Rusty at 03:25 PM | Comments (27) | Add Comment
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An interet war is brewing between a small minority of hackers who happen to be an even smaller subset of misunderstanders of Islam and Danish geeks. Viking Observer at AIR passes this translation on from the Danish media:

A large number of Danish papers´ web versions have crashed. Suspicions immediately center on the hacker attacks being because of the Mohammed-drawings in Jyllands-Posten. ..

All the web media hit are hosted on the same servers at the internet company Metropol Online, owned by Berlingske (Danish publishing house). ..

Among the media hit is the homepage of Jyllands-Postens, www.jp.dk, which creates suspicions, that hackers are trying to hit the paper as part of the row over the papers´ Mohammed-drawings.

A Danish chain-mail that is circulating by email urges people to take part in a web-based attack on arab media. This happens in reaction to the hacker-attack on Danish papers´ websites over the weekend....

he email starts out with the headline "Denmark under attack by moslem hackers" and contains an attached program, that starts a so-called denial-of-service attack on five arab media, among them Al-Jazeera, Arab News og Gulf News.

In the letter the recipient is urged to let the program run on his computer to bombard the arab media with data and thus block their homepages.

And for a great non-dhimmi Danish blogger, visit Enough!

Posted by: Rusty at 01:29 PM | Comments (26) | Add Comment
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To 'Iben Khattab', the assmuncher who is using my avatar on Islamic bulletin boards,

Never in my wildest dreams would I ever have thought some one would ever use the avatar I created on Islamic bulletin boards. Big foot sightings boards? Yes. Alien abduction support communities? Yes. Angelina Jolie lesbian fan clubs? Certainly. But not bulletin boards set up for pro-jihadi propaganda!

Now, I know many Muslims don't believe in 'copyright laws', but don't worry, I'm not threatening to sue you. I just want you to know that I think that you're an asshole and a thief. Stealing my avatar, that I created, makes you a thief. Using that avatar to spread pro-jihad propaganda makes you an asshole.

In the name of Allah, the unmerciful, the uncompassionite, the Lord of Moons, the enabler of pedophiles, I issue a fatwa against you. All who meet Iben Khattab are hereby ordered to flip him the bird and fart in his general direction.

Love,

Rusty Shackleford

PS-Thanks to Tribeca for noticing the avatar and to Richard from Hyscience for helping me translate the threads in question.

Posted by: Rusty at 02:26 PM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
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The Glory Brigades in Northern Europe are now threatening suicide attacks in Denmark. The originals can be seen and downloaded at Infovlad who has them archived. A rough translation of the warning from an Islamic forum can be seen at Tracking al Qaeda.

The Glory Brigades of Northern Europe have threatened terrorist actions in both Sweden and Denmark in the past. The current threats are being made in retalliation for cartoons appearing in Danish papers which are said to be offensive to Muslims.

I wonder how many Christian fundamentalists have threatened to blow themselves up in New York over Kanye West's portrayal of Christ in Rolling Stone?

Click for larger image.

Posted by: Rusty at 03:17 PM | Comments (116) | Add Comment
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1 Yep, these people are not ready to live in modern society. The only choice left to the West will be to deport and repatriate these people to the ME. It will hurt, no doubt, but what choice does the West have other than surrender to medieval thugs?

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 27, 2006 03:29 PM (rUyw4)

2 There is another choice JJ, but it requires a rope and the will to use it.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 27, 2006 03:42 PM (0yYS2)

3 I don't think that's the answer at all. Remember, most Muslims came here to escape the repression of their home countries. The problem seems to be with the imams who come here for different reasons, and the children of the immigrants .

Posted by: Rusty at January 27, 2006 03:42 PM (JQjhA)

4 You see it Rusty - it's a culture clash of the most extreme form complicated by the culture clash within islam itself. Islam is in desperate need of a reformation which it never had. Something like that has to be internal - 'cept now due to migration it has overflowed islamic borders - with the clash following. Very complex - interestingly - Bush's overall policy concerning Iraq and Afghanistan quietly addresses this - creating an atmosphere for development and change. Will it work? I have no idea! I've been ambivalent about this "goal" from the start - fear of over-reaching - but I've commited myself to going the extra mile on this (it is a worthy goal), and keeping my fingers crossed.

Posted by: hondo at January 27, 2006 04:01 PM (3aakz)

5 Willing to kill over a set of caricatures. This coupled with all the other fuss over these cartoons begs the question: was Berlusconi lying when he said that Western civilisation is superior to Islam? I think not.

Posted by: Graeme at January 27, 2006 04:05 PM (HwEEo)

6 Rusty, I fully understand what you are saying, but until Islam is remade it will continue to be a religion of the Middle Ages. The Pope himself basically said the same thing. Because Mohammed received his word directly from Allah, the Koran is not subject to any interpretation, therefore it lends itself to the radicals.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 27, 2006 04:19 PM (rUyw4)

7 It's not a pleasant thing to say that all muslims should be deported back to where they come from, but for cryin' out loud. Islam won't reform, non-muslims can't force muslims to reform, we get caught in the middle of their internal squabbles as convenient sources of blame, so what's left to do?

Posted by: Graeme at January 27, 2006 04:29 PM (HwEEo)

8 Has anyone seen the "Mohammed's Believe it or Not" comic book? I have it in .pdf if anyone wants it. It's pretty funny.

Posted by: Oyster at January 27, 2006 04:43 PM (YudAC)

9 Oyster Yes please! Try Emailing it to me. I need a good laugh for the weekend.

Posted by: hondo at January 27, 2006 05:02 PM (3aakz)

10 Islam is undergoing a Reformation. Unfortunately the Wahhabis are leading it. Is there a rule that "Reformation" means "improvement?"

Posted by: Tresho at January 27, 2006 05:23 PM (5rDht)

11 The 'glory brigades' plotting the destuction of western civilization print posters to hang on their walls (or even to post anonomously) regarding possible future actions? How gullible are you people?

Posted by: Arthur Stone at January 27, 2006 05:51 PM (9wvLS)

12 Has any public threat by an Islamist terrorist organization ever actually come to pass? It seems to me that the safest place to be is where Al-Quaida says they're going to attack.

Posted by: ericj at January 27, 2006 07:16 PM (5PRM2)

13 A comment from a danish citizen Just bring it on!!! Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Sir Winston Churchill,

Posted by: HolgerDanske at January 27, 2006 07:44 PM (zxhD3)

14 How gullible are you people? When someone says they want to kill me -- and when he aligns himself with those who have tried to do so in the past -- I'd be an idiot to ignore the statement.

Posted by: Robert Crawford at January 27, 2006 08:13 PM (Gn9tM)

15 I don't care why the muslims are leaving their own countries, all I know is that they're bringing their backward, primitive ways with them, and instead of assimilating into and contributing to the nations that take them in, they begin to undermine them from the very start. Most muslims are not ready to live in the modern civilized world, and should not be allowed to turn thriving, liberalized (in the classic sense) cultures into war zones and slums, which is exactly what they do wherever they go. The only things that have changed since they were turned back from the gates of Vienna is that they have changed their method from conquest to colonization, and we have forgotten that they still hate us. They're out to destroy us, what are our intentions?

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 27, 2006 08:25 PM (0yYS2)

16 HolgerDanske you're so correct, i just hope your prime minister and that newspaper (the cartoons) read your comment. it seems there's going to be a cave in to islamic demands soon cos the saudis and other islamic states are going to use economic pressure....western greed is one more pressure point on the road to dhimmitude

Posted by: mxew at January 27, 2006 08:57 PM (SwUt6)

17 HolgerDanske you're so correct, i just hope your prime minister and that newspaper (the cartoons) read your comment. it seems there's going to be a cave in to islamic demands soon cos the saudis and other islamic states are going to use economic pressure....western greed is one more pressure point on the road to dhimmitude

Posted by: maxewebb at January 27, 2006 09:06 PM (SwUt6)

18 The most famous of the drawings can be seen at permanent display at www.reaktion.com.

Posted by: GreatDane at January 27, 2006 10:01 PM (mfTVN)

19 I've prepared a modest little "cartoon" of my own--a portrait of everyone's favorite illiterate, pedophile prophet--in solidarity, of course, with our friends in Denmark. I hope you'll check it out. http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/

Posted by: D. T. Devareaux at January 27, 2006 10:30 PM (EWkCD)

20 I hereby threaten to blow myself up over Kanye West's portrayal of Christ in Rolling Stone. It won't be in New York though. I won't blow anyone else up either. Actually, I was thinking of using the neighbor's wretched Bichon Frise as a reasonable facsimile of me. Yes, I hereby threaten to blow up my neighbor's rotten filthy dog in response to Kanye West's portrayal of Jesus in Rolling Stone in a vacant farm field somewhere outside of Wahoo, Nebraska. Allahu Jesus de Christo!

Posted by: Vinnie at January 27, 2006 10:33 PM (f289O)

21 My bitterness and anger is aimed at the north american main stream media; where is the support for a free press ? Our msm don't even have to print the cartoons, just show some editorial support for the Danish newspaper, and for Denmark now that the Arab and Moslem Empire is using economic bullyboy tactics. Our press, our msm, suck. Good luck Denmark; you stand proud in a room of cringing dhimmi western countries.

Posted by: scarf at January 28, 2006 01:56 AM (IsXj0)

22 Hondo: I'm emailing it now. Hope it goes through. It's a 6MB file (lots of graphics).

Posted by: Oyster at January 28, 2006 05:38 AM (YudAC)

23 Well, that didn't work. You're form letter informing me that I wasn't on your approved list came back. So I uploaded it to another site. You can nick it off the web here: http://imagineworldhealth.org/MBOE.pdf

Posted by: Oyster at January 28, 2006 07:13 AM (YudAC)

24 rather - your. PIMF and all that crap.

Posted by: Oyster at January 28, 2006 07:14 AM (YudAC)

25 Medievel thugs? Try pre-stickage savages, these turds have been doing in Denmark what they've been doing in Australia. It should be deportation by boat or deportation by ROPE. Death should be the mandatory sentence for gang rapists especially when they target young 13 year old girls. And yes, they do gang rape young girls in Denmark too and yes the leftards don't say a word against them for doing such. But wooah be it if you are an indigionous Dutchman that says something bad about them, boy you are in for a violation of their human rights to not be offended. How the hell more offended can you get when some group of savages are raping 13 year olds because they don't put themselves in a canvas bag when they walk around. Denmark isn't the middle east!

Posted by: Andre at January 28, 2006 07:46 AM (bQ3vG)

26 Image named Denmark is next... Man this is a near by city, from my place and this is not denmark, its Basel Bad in swiss

Posted by: perfektm at January 28, 2006 08:36 AM (g9GMS)

27 As a citizen in Denmark, I'm proud that our government has not given into blackmail and betrayal of civilized values. It looks as if theres a collective awareness in our media, that freedom of speech can not be bend. But boy am I disappointed with the free press in the rest of Europe. How could it ever come so far, that we don't dare raise our voices with clearly middleaged principles preaching values incomparable to civilized behaviour? Everything these days is acceptable as long as it comes disguised in the cloaks of religion.

Posted by: Swearengen at January 28, 2006 08:56 AM (fKcn7)

28 I second that Swearengen

Posted by: HolgerDanske at January 28, 2006 09:43 AM (zxhD3)

29 Not quite off topic, but everyone here owns guns, right? Just asking...

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 28, 2006 09:44 AM (0yYS2)

30 I agree with you, Rusty. A Dutch friend of mine, very liberal, asked some Muslim friends what they thought of Pim Fortuyn after he was killed. Of course we would have voted for him, they said, we know what the radicals can do! But Dutch laws do not crack down on the radicals, any more than our police crack down on our multiculti priveleged classes. The good ones can't do it on their own, and that's the problem.

Posted by: Pat at January 28, 2006 10:27 AM (jAFLw)

31 You're right Pat, hence my previous post.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 28, 2006 11:35 AM (0yYS2)

32 Arthur, it's bad enough that they're making the threats. That alone merits this post. Regardless, I don't consider threats of terrorism by muslims to be idle threats.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 28, 2006 02:54 PM (FBm0F)

33 The multiculti priveleged class are the ones who preach for more of it but live in gated communities with armed bodyguards paid for by the tax payers. Imagine that, they don't live the utopia they want for everyone else, thus shielding themselves from reality. It's a clash of civilizations and the people stuck having to deal with it are the ones who are paying the bills for it.

Posted by: Andre at January 28, 2006 04:10 PM (bQ3vG)

34 Am I a cynic or did the Muslim Foundation of Britain once again boycott Holocaust Day because it commemorates 6million JEWS? We have MP's Like George Galloway, founder of the RESPECT PARTY (now there's a misnomer) courting Muslim vote. Wake up World befor it's too late!

Posted by: brian at January 29, 2006 05:27 AM (P8jnk)

35 Danes, Shame on you!! Islam brought to all of EU light and peace, bringing you guys from your drunking dark ages state to the light of God and prosperity. Islam and Prophet muhammad did more good to EU and the world than all of your satanic leaders and their armies. Islam is here to save you from the greed of your own self and the greed of captalists. THINKS MAN THINK...STOP YOUR DRUGS AND DRINKS AND YOU WILL SEE...

Posted by: Muslim at January 30, 2006 08:30 AM (hALXt)

36 Yes, Muslim, all the light and peace from invasion after invasion, rape, slaughter, murder, looting, slavery, and every depraved action from the mind of man all in the name of a pedophile prophet. All this was done 400 YEARS BEFORE THE FIRST CRUDADE, YOU IDIOT. WE KNOW WHO THE MURDERERS AND GREEDY BASTARDS ARE, AND THEY AREN'T CHRISTIANS. SO YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO YOUR PRIVITIVE SOCIETY AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WEST BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE FOR YOU. WE ARE GETTING TIRED OF YOUR SHIT. NOW GO!

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 30, 2006 09:06 AM (rUyw4)

37 HA HA HA!! They put an arrow on a CAFE (with a few offices on top) in that *Denmark is next* picture... That makes me tremble with fear.. what will we do without our overpriced coffee?

Posted by: Annemie at January 30, 2006 09:16 AM (Y9zUD)

38 These Islamist freaks are really starting to bore me with their absurd histrionics and choice of lifestyle. It is time our Western governments come to grips with reality and admit that political correctness is out of fashion with the citizens. It is not prudent to continue to hope that we can learn to live and work together in the same cities or countries. They just are not even close to being able to grasp the most simple concepts of acceptable behaviour in 21st century civilized society. Did I hear that Norway was even apologising for cartoons in a Denmark newspaper? Anyway, no country should feel compelled to swallow their pride due to threat of muslim economic boycotts as I am certain we Canadians alone could fill the gap just by increasing our consumption of my favourite beer, Tuborg Gold.

Posted by: CanUK at January 31, 2006 02:29 AM (JZvNm)

39 To claim terror or violence as the ultimate weapon, because of 12 drawings is sad. I respect any God, but I do not respect people with mask and AK47!! In Denmark we represent the free speach, it is a fundamental part our way of living. It can NOT be bend a millimeter as long as it is posted within our borders! Religion is a state of mind, but it is also a lack of understanding in how this world work! Religion is a way for the human being to create the edge of what we don´t understand! If this edge did´nt exist, we would be insane! This world was created by massiv physics and space from an unknown source! God is a way to put an image to what we do not understand! Endlesness thrue time and distance in what I see as the real god : The Universe! You can not explain this god, cause it is no god! It is what we do not understand yet, but the day we do, all religions will fall! It will only be a myth, and the facts of physics (like the flat earth) will release us from these human imaginations of a world created by one God! If God created this world, who created the moon then? Who created the sun, the solarsystem and the rest of what Cristians, Muslims and other great religins still fight against each other about? This is not about cartoons, this is about people with a religious believe that i respect but do not understand! Support knowledge and Science! These are the real Gods, if we need any at all...? Peace for all man kind and believes!

Posted by: Danish Viking at January 31, 2006 08:17 AM (g6oop)

40 islam is next.i will bomb my self in islam very soon as my brother did in irak

Posted by: jesus kristus is my god at January 31, 2006 09:53 AM (xu88Z)

41 Blasts the whole medeleast in pieces so we get away these damn religons fanatiker forever. dont they anderstand that blastsing bombs over the wold whill only make the wold hate them more, and their so called gud whill be distroyd. as I hope.

Posted by: Wikki at January 31, 2006 10:09 AM (2AfQ+)

42 Wtf is wrong with u people ?

Posted by: Roen at January 31, 2006 10:19 AM (Z1jkl)

43 Howdy, Michelle Malkin linked to me. I have more of these graphics from the site here: http://louminatti.blogspot.com/2006/01/denmark-needs-our-support.html The site that was hosting them is down now.

Posted by: Lou Minatti at January 31, 2006 03:20 PM (bmudv)

44 Isn´t there a group of people that will defend democracy, like our grandparents did during the German occupation of Denmark, hitting the agressive militant muslims where it hurts? I actually will draw what the FUCK i like, and NO Mufti or flag burning imbeciles can change that.

Posted by: I Will draw WTF i like at January 31, 2006 03:44 PM (kMc8p)

45 to all who are thinking that the islam is the religion of middel ages , i say do not speak of things that you do not know cus the merical of quraan is that it can not be restricted to a timeline or to the middel ages as you said. its the religion for peace and humanity for all ages, and bye the way do you know what the islam greeting?? it's "peace on you "

Posted by: leo at January 31, 2006 03:57 PM (1fnu8)

46 Leo, If Islam is the religion of peace, why are so many people afraid to say anything remotely critical about it without being worried that their throats will be slashed or their cities blown up? People are receiving death threats over cartoons! This is absurd. I'm not saying Islam is the problem, but it sure seems to me that its most fervent believers are the problem.

Posted by: Lou Minatti at January 31, 2006 04:07 PM (bmudv)

47 I'm proud to be a Dane these days.. Fuck it was a stupid thing to press those drawings, but when that's done, I feel that our prime Minister and the population handles the situation with the same stamina and will that we rather miss among our democratic allies. It's not all about paintings, it's all a larger perspective of foreign policy, where muslim countries finally have a golden opportunity to put immense pressure on one of our core values - the freedom of speech. Sick and tired of having my everyday dictated by masses that escaped the regimes we are against now. Stand up and unite Europe!

Posted by: Danish Muscle at January 31, 2006 04:36 PM (B4iqk)

48 HERE IS A SAMPLE PAGE FROM A THREAD THAT I AM MAINTAINING THE ILLUSTRATED P.I.G TO ISLAM (p.g.) http://www.fomi.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1627&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=360 REGARDS SHIVA

Posted by: shiva at February 01, 2006 01:57 AM (NWc4a)

49 Why discuss the right of freedom of speech? It's the only right we have to express ourselves when we don't agree with something. Chapeaux for the Danes. By the way, if you type "Moslim Cartoons" on Google, you get 1.820.000 hits, with "Christian Cartoons" you get 12.000.000 hits... Cartoons are sort of humor, or not?

Posted by: Ben (not Bin) at February 01, 2006 08:43 AM (+D3y5)

50 I have always believed that putting myself in the others' shoes seems to be the most difficult thing to do because as a GREEDY HUMAN BEING-- which is something that mankind is cursed with-- I’ll always look for the opponents' mistakes and show off myself as if i'm a perfectionist! In a city where more than 114 nationalities reside, I find myself unable to express my real identity… there are a lot of differences! And there’s more time for the universe to last more than my life. Therefore, I would define stupidity by my attitude if I would just even think about the differences between me and others- the surrounding! Due, to the current circumstances, I should state that I’m a Muslim. And at this point, I understand that some of the readers might reconsider reading this very simple article that represents my opinion about this unhappy circumstance. (thanks if you didn’t; thanks for letting me express my opinion freely) Am I trying in a way or another to defend Islam? Unfortunately, (and I address ‘unfortunately’ to some people, not to all) I find no reason for any one to defend my religion. There’s a very popular saying: “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” And as I’m looking from an Islamic EYE- point of view- am I so unique from Muslims, that I have created my own Islam: the very friendly Islam?… or Am I a devil in the real Muslims’ points of views? Guys, I have experienced wars, my house was damaged, I studied with some bomb sound effects in my ears, I’ve seen my father escaping bombs just to seek some place for us to live- relatively- safe! And guys, please don’t forget, I’m a Muslim. Dear readers, if you are to express yourself, do it freely, but make sure you put yourself in the opponents shoes tight (I guess this is how I started the paragraph)… otherwise, Please the so called Muslims save your efforts for doing something that would benefit at least one person who’s very different from you… I have a lot more to say… I’ll be waiting for someone to click on my name and send me a request for discussion… thank you very much

Posted by: Hasan at February 01, 2006 08:49 AM (K/6Dj)

51 We are proud to be Danish and will remain so. No one shall make us change the way we live and think. If they (Muslims) want to live in the middelage, then let them, but DO NOT try to enforce that way if thinking on us. Burn our flag, and you (Muslims)have made yourself an enemy for life. By burning our flag, and pictures of our Primeminister, you (Muslims) only confirm that you are nothing more then animals, and there is no meaningfull way to reason with you. The Danish flag (The oldest flag in the world), with it's red borders and white cross, represents the Christian Cross, so by burning our flag, you (Muslims) are in fact burning the Christian Cross, and thereby insulting ALL Christian in the world. Do you really wanna do that, do you really what to take on the Christian world. Well every once in a while I think : "What the hell, lets get it over with" - "Let's take that last stand against the Muslim world, before the move in on us" But then again, I look at my kids, and think, that is no way for them to grow up. But I am afraid that it will happen sooner or later, the Muslim world will have a war on the rest of the world. Is it better to do it now, before the get to many WMD (nuke's a.s.o.) or shall we opnce again try to reason with them. I don't know. I just know that they (Muslims)are not making friends here (Denmark) Just some of the things running around my head :-) Take care all, and thanks for your support. A Dane

Posted by: A Dane at February 01, 2006 09:28 AM (Wk3c+)

52 Hej "A Dane" ! Jeg kunne ikke være mere enig, men hvem GØR noget? DU/JEG...hvad KAN vi gøre?? Vi burde samle os, og forberede os på at forsvare vores måde at leve på, og ikke lade kræmmerne og agressive muslimer fremtvinge et nationalt "knæfald", ingen af disse har nogen respekt for dette land. JEG er klar...kom så drenge! Trans: Hi "A Dane" ! I couldn´t agree more, but who´s taking action? You/ME...what CAN we do ? We should gather and prepare to defend our "way of living" and not let the merchants and agressive muslims make us "bend over", neither have any respect for this country. I´m "game", come on boys!

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 01, 2006 12:50 PM (kMc8p)

53 who did determine the values or the rules of middleages?? u can not corner something in the frame of time except for machinery. But ideas and thoughts can not be delt the same way, because a thing that u might thing is good others believe it to be bad, for example: u think of these events to be a clear decleration of the middleaged culture that muslims have, on the other way the western world agrees to some acts to be legal or normal, while these same things are considered to be animal or backward. So, built upon that why would u force others to believe in ur values?? another thing is that u can not apply ur valeus or believes to someone who does not believe in them. we had a saying: if something exceeds it's limit it will turn to be it's oposite. everything has it's limit, if u sleep to much ur sleeping will be a pain instead of being a comfort, if u eat too much u will die instead of living, this is also applicable to freedom, ur freedom is limited to the borders of other people's freedom, if u cross that u will be insulting and assulting the others. another point is: to advance in the industry and the technology does not mean that u are advanced from a cultural point of view. u should know also that islam is not "stupid". It has many rules and laws that the "developed" countries did not have them until the last 200 years. if u want to know a bout something ask the right person, don't ask it's enemy nor it's extremist. u can come and discuss islam with any "imam", "mulla" or "mufti", don't ever think that he will kill u or will have that sturdy look on his face, but when u insult his valeus and believs he wont be happy. let us ask this question: What benifit did the cartoons bring upon the west or the east??? Is it so important?? or it is just for teasing the others?? if it was for that then don't blame the "others" for being angry.

Posted by: Nayef at February 01, 2006 03:44 PM (IpuE8)

54 Jävlar skäggiga blöjbarn... Är ända lösningen på ett problem för Er att döda oskyldiga??? Så fort något går Er emot, kan Ni bara komma på att döda någon.. Så gjorde man på stenåldern.. Ni är kanske kvar i stenåldersstadiet.. Väx upp och bli lite civiliserade..

Posted by: Scana at February 01, 2006 04:06 PM (ZEu5z)

55 Savages? Thugs? Cant live peacefully in your "civilized" countries that support freedom of speech? Hypocritical! Let me tell you something. Those cartoons were PURE HATRED and RACISM, nothing more nothing less. You insist on calling it freedom of speech? Ok, then how about this: Tomorrow I will grab a giant board and write on it: The "holocaust" never existed as we know it ... Stop the lies ... Prove that 6 million Jews were killed ... Stop intimidating Europe and punishing the Europeans for a crime they didnt commit. I will take that board and run in the streets of Copenhagen and dont you sons of Vikings dare to tell me that was offensive... Dont you dare try to stop me or tell me I'm anti-semitic... I'm only practicing my freedom of speech! Deal?

Posted by: Muslim Observer at February 01, 2006 09:47 PM (NPziN)

56 "Muslim Observer" If anyone is masters of RASISM it´s the muslims. Your whole religion is founded on being "better the non-muslims" that´s RASISM. I never hear or see Danes call Muslims names, but the Danes is often referred to as "Dansker svin" (Danish pigs) and our women/girls as "Whores" becourse they don´t use wails, so don´t lecture us on who´s the Rasists. Rearding your "happening"...now your getting it..! Feel free ( becourse in Denmark it is possible to fell free) run around in Copenhagen with your board, the only thing you have to know id that it is not likely that anyone will agree with you, so you WILL only present yourselves as the ignorant fool you are, AND people also have their right of speak to tell you that they think you are wrong...are you getting this? This is the core of freedom of speach, you can say what you want, but others also have a right to utter that they disagree. But if you attack someone personally in public it´s in denmark called "injurier" ( don´t know the English word), and you will go to courth and will be liable to punishment. Say: If i in public said that you ( your name )were a "stealing homosexual peadofile doglover" that would not be legal, and even if i could prove it, it still isn´t legal, becourse the statement is "aimed to harm the public opinion of you" Here ended the lecture....read a book...not the Coran...i think you should ease up on that one.

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 02, 2006 02:11 AM (kMc8p)

57 By the way! I will totally support if the Muslims living of welfare, public childsupport or uneployment-money ( most of them )will start to boycot Denmark by not accepting the check every month, and even better, leaving the country....This would really have an impact on the Danish socity and the Danes, give me a hint if you need someone to take you to the airport. Bring it on...APES!

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 02, 2006 02:38 AM (kMc8p)

58 Mohamed was a disgusting old peadophile and bigot but this highlights the whole problem.That is the interlectual poverty of religion. I mean believing in that outmoded crap in the twenty first century....I ask you

Posted by: dawin at February 02, 2006 05:51 AM (Xl4L3)

59 I HOPE THAT THE WESTERN WORLD WILL BOYCOTT ALL MUSLIM BUSINESSES-RESTAURANTS ETC--AND PLEASE STOP TRAVELING TO MUSLIM-TOURISM-COUNTRIES-LET THE 1.3 BILLION CREATURES SURVIVE ON THER OWN--

Posted by: STAN at February 02, 2006 03:55 PM (MK3TF)

60 The fact that these people are willing to blow themselves up over a cartoon only proves the cartoons correct. They all have turbans with bombs on it, grow up people. Do you think no one has ever made fun of Jesus? Are the Christians blowing themselves up in the Middle East? No. We recognize that everyone has different viewpoints and we have the freedom to have them. They on the other hand, aren't fit to live.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 02, 2006 04:21 PM (dnSsw)

61 GREAT DAY!--A FERRY SANK AND HUNDREDS OF FILTHY SCUM BAG RAGHEADS DROWNED--- PRAISE ALLAH!--QUIZ: WHAT IS A THOUSAND RAGHEADS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA? AN EXCELLENT BEGINNING!----

Posted by: STAN at February 03, 2006 08:52 AM (CLrH5)

62 I am both disgusted and horrified by alot of what i have seen from all sides of this issue. It wasw a Cartoon. They could have issued a polite statement condemning it and asking for an apology. I would have understood that and backed that up and agreed yeh the cartoon was kind of rude... But to run around setting fires over a cartoon.... Over kill. As for free media if you think the media in this country is free anywhere anymore. You have got to be 1. Totally confused 2. As dumb as Bush Jr and Condee Rice put together 3. Both of the above.

Posted by: Vivi at February 04, 2006 04:54 PM (DHL+g)

63 You know a wise zen master once said "Whole world single flower." I found the expression interesting considering the times we are living in. I am of the opinion violence has never solved a damned thing. As a woman i have found myself on more than one occasion at the whim of an enraged violent man. At the time i was living in a house with two islamic doctors. They heard me scream. They came running down the stairs and grabbed our other roommate who was pulling back his hand to hit me a second time. They slammed him against the wall and physically restrained him while they made sure i was ok. Then they pushed him out of the house Telling him him that you never hit a woman. There are decent people of every race religion and culture. It is just sad that so often the few assholes destroy it for the rest. I finally understood the maaning of the zen teacher in his saying about whole world single flower. We are all the children of a higher power or the product of cell division or what ever you want to call it. Together, we bloom. Divided as we are now, we wilt. A wilted flower is really not a pretty sight.

Posted by: Vivi at February 04, 2006 05:07 PM (DHL+g)

64 Anyone that claims Islam is a peaceful religion is full of crap.All of the 9/11 bombers= Muslim--the Brit bombings last July= Muslim --now, the obviously ignorant masses of Muslims-they use their hand to wipe their butt not realizing that s.it paper has been invented- they are so insecure about their Islam religion that they are burning Western embassies,many wearing masks to hide their faces, firing guns into the air-to stupid to realize that the bullets come down and often kill their own people--I have said for 4 years: the world needs to bomb Mecca-wipe out a few million of the filthy creatures and stop supporting tourism to Muslim countries!--Imagine this: Buddhists or Christians or any people of dozens of other religions acting like the violent Muslims-----1.2 billion of the ignorant, insecure, filthy, violent creatures-----

Posted by: STAN at February 05, 2006 07:04 AM (977lb)

65 I can't agree more with Vivi. I travel the world & have friends from all religious group. There are wonderful people out there be it the Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhist etc...We are all the same. We have to learn to respect others & only then will we be respected. I do believe in the limits of press & that any issues can be resolved. It is sad to see how our world is so divided and I have no one else to blame but the superpowers of today. It is them that's making the choatic world today & dividing us all. And these people are just reacting to it; then when things get unproportionate, all seem ugly. Just like how you guys reacted. Come on guys, this is not how we resolve these issues. Don't let politics affect us. Try to understand other people's sensitivities. Its really not the time to create unpleasantness nor to joy at others' death. That makes me really sick!

Posted by: Sasha at February 05, 2006 08:03 AM (tHubM)

66 Sasha ! I tottaly agree with you. Eventhough we are not as primitive as our oponents, it seems that drastic mesures is all they understand. I have allways felt that i would be quite fair to issue a warning that if the islamic terrorism continues against the western world, we will first bomb Mecca, if it continues then the Medina aso. untill they stop or perish under our might. After all the DO seem to feel quite save trying to force their twisted belives on us. Time to let them taste their own medicine.

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 05, 2006 08:48 AM (kMc8p)

67 Sorry! Last posting was ment for STAN

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 05, 2006 08:50 AM (kMc8p)

68 Enough is enough!! The publishers of the cartoons have proven their point to be true. Muslims no matter how rich or poor, moderate or radical think the same way and do support terrorism because that is what is expected of them and in their minds they think they are supporting the fight against the great Satan - America. In truth it is their jealousy and an inferiority complex that is speaking. The Muslims go around openly declaring that all Jews should die, Israel should be destroyed, America is evil and believe that killing one self and others in the name of "God" is an act of bravery but when someone uses a historical figure related to Islam to make a political point the Muslims get offended? Why is it that everyone should be careful of what they say just in case the Mullahs might go mad? Why is it that we all have to be fearful for our lives if we speak our mind? The Muslim community all over the world has proven through recent events that they are irrational and cannot fight back with words. They are so weak that the second someone utters something that they donÂ’t agree with they go and grab their guns ready to kill. Now is the time for the west to stand -up together against this constant threat from the Muslim community and let them know that freedom of speech is not negotiable when it is not inciting hate or harming anyone. They are the ones who are racist and intolerant. It is a way of life for Muslims.

Posted by: Anna at February 05, 2006 07:15 PM (im1uQ)

69 I suggest we all do something about this in our won small way. Any ideas?

Posted by: anna at February 05, 2006 07:21 PM (im1uQ)

70 I suggest we all do something about this in our own small way. Somehow get everyone who thinks like us and is tired of all this constant bullshit from the muslims to get together and put pressure on the media to back the Danes!! Any ideas?

Posted by: anna at February 05, 2006 07:22 PM (im1uQ)

71 Now IÂ’m not getting anything anymoreÂ… first it was muslims against the world, then muslims against the west, then west against east, then west against I donÂ’t know whomÂ… at the end there shall always be some body against anybodyÂ… very good... donÂ’t anybody try to understand the other and appreciate how sensitive they might beÂ… donÂ’t you ever think rationallyÂ… donÂ’t you ever think peacefullyÂ… donÂ’t you ever seek for solutions rather than crucial thresholdsÂ… lets always seek warsÂ… lets always seek differencesÂ… lets always seek hatredÂ… lets always seek greedÂ… and when somebody makes anything that would add a positive value to the worldÂ… letÂ’s kill himÂ… let every body kill everybody...

Posted by: Hasan at February 06, 2006 02:12 AM (+EUV1)

72 I am so happy this has happened! Finally, the would will see what a idiot, violent race of people muslesm's are! If a cartoon can make this much violence in them, it shows what a stupid, extreme, religion it is. I think the world should build a 500 foot wall around all muslem countries, make an embargo, not allow the crazy shit people to travle outside their own hopless countries. If they do not change their extreme ways from within, then the world should should become EXTREME and starve them into sand mummies. SHOW NO sympathy to a muslem! No coopertation. Only self distruction and isolation will rid the world of this evel. I hope all extreem muslems around the world all kill themselves. They are the MOST violent, extreem, worthless people in the world.

Posted by: Dan at February 06, 2006 03:47 AM (uCQRi)

73 I completely agree with you Anna and Dan. Isn't it just pathetic the way these people act? Who remembers the destruction of the Bhuda statues in Afghanistan, the cowardly attacks to New York, Madrid, London, the continuous (suicide) strikes in Iraq... etc. Real pretty ain't it? What the hell are they talking about disrespectfull ? They don't respect squad. They don't respect life, they don't respect any other religion, they don't respect females... Sorry I do not have the words to describe how much I'm fed up with these people. I am sorry for the few good guys under them, but I'm affraid that you have worldwide lost your credit...

Posted by: Rick at February 06, 2006 11:45 AM (0vE6K)

74 Maybe time to transfer the islamic areas to a car park? Let's include China too, before they consume all of the oil and other resources!

Posted by: John at February 06, 2006 12:32 PM (EFnUf)

75 Just a thought: IF the ordinary muslim is so peaceloving and non conflict seeking, why is it then that some satiric cartoons can get them on the streets burning our embassys, when radical muslims slicing the throughts of COMPLETELY INNOCENT hostages dosn´t raise a single voice ( at least not critical )...if they say this is not the "muslim way", which is then more blasphemic, cartoons or killing innocent hostages, filming it and releasing the film on the internet??? I say, this not the way of ANY peaceloving belief, this is the way of an evil plaque upon us. We will fight and prevail. There are many ways...they live amongst us, and if they are traitors against the country that have given them, asylum, education, money to live a secure life, freedom of religion, freedom of SPEECH, they must pay....what traitors pay.

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 06, 2006 03:53 PM (kMc8p)

76 Dear Dan, I’m reading your first line: “I’m so happy that this has happened,” and I’m astonished that you might have not got the true message behind my comment… Just to make sure that everyone got my message, I was just refusing violence in an indirect way, because I was criticizing and making sarcasm about the violence thinking of anybody not just those who declare Islam… I also, want to clarify some points… In Lebanon – my country- a very shameful action took place where people called for a peaceful protest in a way of addressing their refuse for those cartoons, but this so-called peaceful protest lead to attacks on the embassy of Denmark, public properties, and private properties as well… In reaction, look what happened: the Lebanese government apologized for the Danish government and promised to make up losses, the Lebanese government promised to give Europeans residing in Lebanon special safety requirements in a way of regret for the action… In addition, in 2 days, more than 300 people who are related to these shameful actions were captured and investigations are set to extremes… early results of the investigations prove that people who committed these CRIMES are not Lebanese, and this is related to the political instability that Lebanon was facing since last February 2005 (the assassination of the ex-prime minister, I’m pointing to the side behind the assassination)… Yesterday, 2 Lebanese leaders: A top Islamic Figure and a Top Christian Figure met and made a conference in A CHURCH!!! In a way to show solidarity and compassion to the terrible actions that took place… Guys, I understand that everybody has the right to express his thoughts, but do you think WE are able to make our points always clear… “Dan, Rick, Anna,” you want to make something… a reaction… it’s your right… but do you accept a counter argument before doing so… if So, I refer to John’s point regarding China and petroleum and tell you that the major amount of oil reserves belong to Arab and Muslim countries… Is it reasonable to cut off oil and petroleum? Personally, I don’t think so… “illdrawwtfilike” please be sure of one thing, Muslims refusing such cartoons doesn’t give them the right or give anybody the right for doing violence, or terrible actions… You have all the right to condemn these actions… for me as a Muslim I want to recall some sayings: Jesus said when he was crucified: “Please God forgive them, they don’t realize what they are doing,” Mohammed said: “Love your enemy,” Ghandi fighted England by his peaceful actions and speeches… and I wish I can recall other sayings for Moses, Buddha, Confucius, Shinto’s… and others… Guys, to make sure what that i understand christianity, i took a course at university... and i got convinced whith alot of stuff...i may have alot of disagreements with Christians; i keep them for myself just to avoid tangling emotional instability with others... what's the true islam and why people declare Islam and kill innocent people?! Very accurate point… I just want to make sure you notice and relate these contradicting actions: Bin Laden and Al Zawaheri ( Al Qaeda leaders) declare Islam, and commit bombings in Islamic areas in Iraq killing hundreds and thousands… how could Bin Laden be a Muslim when he kills his innocent BROTHER in Islam. How could he be a true muslim when he kills innocent people on video and attack Christian bearing in mind that the Quraa’n discusses Christianity, Jesus, and has a full chapter under the title of “Mary.”

Posted by: Hasan at February 07, 2006 01:57 AM (K/6Dj)

77 and John," Let's include China too..." !!! sorry, but what are talking about?!!!!

Posted by: Hasan at February 07, 2006 02:04 AM (vqJCZ)

78 http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Society/10017037.html Please check what ANNAN (the General Secretary of the UN) said about this issues

Posted by: Hasan at February 07, 2006 02:15 AM (K/6Dj)

79 Where I live, Muslim lads are intimidating and sexually assaulting British white girls. Muslim men are not brought up to respect women. They get their dicks dirty several times before their arranged marriage and then expect their new wives to be virgins. Muslim women are dumb enough to accept that state of affairs. In London they had placards on the 'demonstration' saying "Exterminate all Europeans", "Behead those that insult us"....is this the behaviour of civilized people? One of the leaders of this vile demo is a convicted drug pusher. Clearly its OK for him to push drugs that kill kids but he gets offended by cartoons and dresses as a suicide bomber? I agree, deport them all by boat or rope. Quite frankly I'm sick of these freaks

Posted by: British Bulldog at February 07, 2006 07:17 AM (VSGms)

80 I am a muslim living in a democratic country South Africa, we have gone through ALOT as a country and now im happy to say we have reached a point where we respect others and respect each others beliefs. There is no KILLING and BOMBINGS in SA, why? cos our government respects our right to religion and our religious beliefs. Hence, how can we kill people if our beliefs are considered. This was not the case with EUROPE, and other "1st World Countries" . It is considered "helping" us by banning scarfs and any display of Islamic wear. The simple beard causes problems in airports. If anything that the WEST or countries that consider themselves FIRST WORLD could learn is that maybe they are not first world and should learn from a third world democracy like South Africa. But alas i think this is impossible, why? cos the main problem created is the west interfering in middle east, why again? OIL! I mean i think a truce needs to made to end killings, leave the middle east. as requested by osama, but it will not happen cos a very valuable commidity exists there. If these countries could control their own wealth, there would be less people leaving, but the oil is controlled by the west. So what do people do? they need to eat dont they? Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. are suffering. the people killed in afghanistan and iraq, and the nuclear warefare and innocent children and women hurt due to greed for oil. I mean is that how life is valued, by WEALTH? you dont take a single cent into your grave, so why amass a fortune, that you may never spend?

Posted by: N/A at February 08, 2006 02:37 AM (/2Z6c)

81 N/A, right into the heart... very good point... This is what John was asking for in a RUDE way by saying "let's include China..." Guys, the more we seek differences, the more troubles we will get... live free... enough GREED!!!

Posted by: Hasan at February 08, 2006 04:44 AM (vqJCZ)

82 N/A your points about the west in the middle east are not valid and I'll tell you why. Firstly you say people in the middle east are suffering and dying because of the west and you complain about this. However, the biggest cause of Muslim suffering in the middle east is the Muslim governments. Saddam Hussein, Khomeini, Assad and the Saud's and Indonesian juntas have ALL abused their people with NO encouragement from the west at all. Why didn't you complain when Saddam (a Muslim) was torching, poisoning and torturing his own people? Why didn't you complain when Khomeini (a Muslim) was was using Iranian kids as mine-sweepers and having dissent squashed via torture? Why didn't you complain when Syria (with a Muslim leadership) were a controlling and feared ruling apparatus in Lebanon? Why don't you complain about the human rights violations committed in Saudi by its Muslim leadership? Women are suppressed to the point of being barbarity and people get their heads and hands hacked off for petty crime and being gay. Why don't you complain when the indonesian Muslim leadership tortures and kills its own? This is abuse of Muslims by Muslim governments. Your Muslim leaders are your worst enemy. Obviously, when the crimes are perpetrated by Muslim leaderships, you have no cause to complain eh?????????? Why is that exactly?? What else do Muslim leaders AND companies AND business enterprises do? Not only do they conspire with western powers (Saddam, Saudi, UAE, Jordan and Egypt for example), they also sell their oil to the west in order to make money....but the ordinary citizens never see. In other words, darling, they put their pockets before their principles! If they feel that strongly about the west's 'bad influence', they'd enforce an oil embargo....but they don't and we all know why. So stop complaining, and see that the reality is that Muslims are torturing and killing Muslims in great big batches. You are trying to displace the blame for Muslim suffering onto the west but it won't change the situation.

Posted by: UK girl at February 08, 2006 05:30 AM (VSGms)

83 ps - it is worthy to note that you have no right to murder and destroy because you feel your religion is not treated with kid gloves. The Quran calls its way 'the paths of peace' (5:16). It describes 'reconciliation' as the best policy (4:12 and states that God ABHORS disturbance of the peace. (2:205) "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most compassionate." This verse is repeated in the Quran for no less than 114 times!!! Now, if your religion is THAT important, you would do well to remember those passages. So far, you have not. Also, go to Saudi, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Indonesia and protest to the Muslim leaders about their terrible treatment of Muslim citizens.

Posted by: UK Girl at February 08, 2006 05:43 AM (VSGms)

84 UK girl don't forget that Muslims are also making lives a misery by committing mass murders and rapes in the Sudan - just another little one to add to the list! the U.N. Security Council imposed sanctions on Sudan from 1996 to 2001 because of its involvement with terrorism. The Islamist Arab government that controls most of the country—which remains in the throes of a long-running civil war—has provided sanctuary to terrorists and has let terrorist groups plan and carry out operations from Sudan. Government forces have enslaved southerners and forced non-Muslims to convert to Islam. Typical.

Posted by: Brit Bulldog at February 08, 2006 08:25 AM (VSGms)

85 N/A - First of all be brave enough to post your name. In any case, if a western country bans the headscarf or the burqa they are doing a favor to these women. Most women under the rule of orthodox religion live a life of self denial where they come to terms with their supression and instead give other women a lecture on why they should cover themselves up. Women in Saudi Arabia are treated like mules who cannot even drive cars. One can say allot of a culture by how they treat their women. In Iran, a 12 year old girl for beaten to death because she decided to swim in her own homes swimming pool but in doing so incited desire in the neighbor. So it was her fault? I am telling this story because it shows us how Muslims are always ready to defer blame because their is evil in thier own hearts. How Islam treats women is a whole other matter. But their attitude and treatment towards women gives us insight into their attitude toward life. It is simply a male dominated culture where angry young men express how much they actually hate themselves and their life by trying to force their hypocritical ways on others. Now they want to make the West into a Muslim women who quivers before she speak because she is afraid that the mullah might get angry and slap her. And yes I agree with those of you who belive that the best way to deal with these people especially the men is to simply isolate them. The best way to start would be to stop buying oil from them. The west can easily accomplish this by opening up areas to oil drilling and not saving it to save birds. Also stop immigration and explain to the ones who are already here that you have to live by our laws. Recently In they were considering allowing sharia (Islamic) law to be practiced in Canada becuase the muslim community feels that its their democratic right to do that. But that is a huge contradictin becuase like everything in Islam, Sharia Law is not fair and biased towrads men. So No they cannot be allowed to practice their barbaric law in democratic countries. What really bothers me is how Muslims come to the west, sleep around with "bad" women do drugs study in Western Institutions and basically do everything that other young people do yet call the western culture evil. Believe me when I say this, any Muslim man will always in his mind believe stupid conspiracy theories about how the Jews want to take over the world and many felt happy when 9/11 happened. When Normal educated middle class muslim people can think like this then just imagine what the radicals think like. I know this becuase I was born in a Muslim country.I was born into it and had no choice. I am tired of how members of my family actually expect me to side with the Mullahs and be loyal to them. Why should I be. Would the mullahs treat me nicely. NO. I know their anger and the sense of control and possesion that is taught to Muslim men and hense this culture of violence and racism. They call white people racist yet would never allow a Muslim women to marry a man of a different colour but cloak it with the excuse of religion. So again Enough is Enough! If they dont like the way people live here they can take their opnions, ways and culture back to where they came from. Frankly speaking Muslim people are by far the most racist, irrational, violent and selfish people alive on the face of this planet.

Posted by: Anna at February 09, 2006 08:24 PM (im1uQ)

86 Anna and UK girl, very well put, I could not agree more.

Posted by: DT at February 10, 2006 04:41 AM (VSGms)

87 Anna, UK Girl... although being a Muslim, yet I can't agree more with you... you have used vital cases within the Islamic world that are crucial and brutal to the mankind… yet, I want to add some essential points. In Math -or logic in general, you can use a lot of assumptions and examples to explain and verify the given, yet assumptions are not always valid; the reason is that assumptions are common, yet cases always differ!!! Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi, Syria, Sudan, Indonesia… and you may name all Islamic countries, have problems and issues that I’m really sick of them… We can discuss them, but let me make it simple… If a single Muslim man immigrates to a foreign country (Canada for example), shows no respect for the society he is in, commits horrible stuff, run after “bad women”… does this necessary reflects his true religion?!! Most probably, most think this way: “Since all of these cases and countries are having such kinds of problems, and since Islam is in common, then Islam is the reason for disasters and stuff…” but I would like to thank UK Girls for adding this statement: “Now if your religion is THAT important, you would do well to remember those passages. So far, you have not.” Another example: If I and 10 of my Muslim friends commits adultery, this doesn’t reflect Islam, but it reflects only our true horribly nature!!! If I obstructed women from driving or from any right, I’m opposing a whole chapter in the Qura’an called “Women”… To all Muslims, to declare war, you should define your enemy first… when you get angry, you should clarify the cause… at the end, if I got cold, I would never take a chemical therapy for cancer!!! Why I can’t agree more with Anna… well, she mentioned Syria… and I’m Lebanese… but please somebody answer this question: IF I’m just peaceful in nature, and my religion (Islam) is violent, shall I change my religion instantly or shall I seek the true truth first and then decide?

Posted by: Hasan at February 11, 2006 02:48 AM (Ofrr3)

88 Hasan! I must say you sounds as one of the most intelligent muslims i have heard, I thinks it all boils down to a few things: Religion isn´t radical and violent...people are. This is more about culture ( or lack of same )than relegion. Problem is that many of the people lacking culture, compassion and accept of the right to think differently, is of the muslim conviction, you don´t see people of the west acting so undescrible primitive as you see in the middleeast/pakistan / Sudan / indonesia.. that´s the picture of a retarded culture.

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 12, 2006 01:53 AM (kMc8p)

89 iwilldrwwtfilike, first thx for the comment, & i would like to add one thing: I can't agree more! yes this is what i think... why? the answer is "Emotional Intelligence"...( in my opinion, the most essential element for leadership...) and what did the so-called Islamic Leaders do to their people, to their countries, to the world? No, not nothing; they made a lot of stuff… a lot of horrible stuff! Want me to name… start with Saddam Hussein to Al Kathafi…to to to… etc… (With all respect to all nations and people)… I want to recall a statement by Imam Ali (the 3rd Khalifa after Prophet Mohammed): I had never argued with a (culturally) retarded person, and I won (= made a point), he always defeated me…” Retarded cultures seek denial of others because they refuse the idea of making mistakes… and ain’t mistakes something of the human nature!!! So whom are they denying… the others or themselves?!… this may be reflected by dictatorship; media over control; by political brain washing… iwilldrwwtfilike, please DRAW WHAT EVER YOU LIKE… but please keep in mind to prevent offensive arguments with such people, because it will lead no way but disasters and clashes between cultures… Guys allow me to express my thoughts: “If I’m to grab a higher education degree, I will grab it for myself; if I’m to know some issues and problems with another person, I would learn from his mistakes!!!”

Posted by: Hasan at February 12, 2006 02:49 AM (K/6Dj)

90 just one point more, "iwlldrwwtfilike", don't you think it might be more rational to say "problem is that----- is of muslim EXTREME conviction---"? as i said before, assumptions are common; with different cases we shall use the most precise assumption! Thanks all...

Posted by: Hasan at February 12, 2006 03:00 AM (+EUV1)

91 Hello Hasan ! Point taken... ANY extreme position is bad, we just feel that we are, as speaking, at war with those muslims, and since the more moderate muslims in the world dosn´t separate themselves from them, we must exspect that they agree. No one has the right to impose their belief on others, and as in contradiction to the cristian belief, extreme muslims have separated themselves ( and the muslim societys) from the civilized world by their extreme violent actions, directed against totally innocent civilians....something you have never seen the west do ( except in the 12th. century). Islam is supposably a belief of forgiveness and compassion, but that side of islam, the infidels ( us ) never see, we see the bombs and the destruction driven by muslim criminals. Only softning from muslim side i have seen is the newly formed "Moderate Muslims" who oppose the violence and wants dialog. Let there be no doubt, we want to live in peace with the muslims, if they respect that we have another way of thinking, after all...our God is the same, and we have profets in common, don´t we?, but if they want open war...we´re ready.

Posted by: iwilldrawwtfilike at February 12, 2006 06:10 AM (kMc8p)

92 iwilldrwwtfilike, i just feel glad about the ease communication and the flow of the massive common points of views, regardless the dangerous expression that have been stated at first... that's good... yet as usual, i have a point to add ... and it's only about Lebanon... (honestly speaking, i care the less about other nations whatever their culture is...) i used to address simple examples, yet this is not! Why is Al Manar Tv, which is owned by Hizbollah, banned from broadcasting in Europe (or most of Europe?!! If you are going to tell me that Hizbollah is a terrorist organizationÂ… well, let me give you an idea about my background: IÂ’m from Southern Lebanon, and I have lived all my life in Southern Lebanon. I have seen blood, I have seen my house being bombed, I have seen my DAD getting out of the damage, I can still feel how I hugged him first, I have seen miracles, and I have seen Hizbollah defending my country, my land, my school, my family, and MYSELF!!! Is Hizbollah a terrorist organization for defending its nation? Is this the reason for it to be banned from expressing its points of views thru media? Are we discussing the free of speech and democracy or NOT?!!!

Posted by: Hasan at February 13, 2006 12:19 AM (Ofrr3)

93 ORGANIZED religion is the reason, not people who live in the middle east, or South East Asia. Its the organization of religion that is the reason. Religion on the whole needs a total restructuring I found a pretty funny site too. http://mohammedtheprofit.com Oh my!

Posted by: Bob at February 13, 2006 03:59 AM (+/Int)

94 Thanks Bob... Thanks Bob for respecting others' beleives... Thanks for teaching us what democracy means... Thanks for proving what i said on Feb 12, 2006 2:49 a.m. ...

Posted by: Hasan at February 13, 2006 05:28 AM (K/6Dj)

95 Interesting to note the video released by the Brit Press showing Brit soldiers beating Iraqis. Now, this is also FREEDOM OF THE PRESS - this is in fact a proud showing of British democracy. Britain has a Press that has FREEDOM from its government and uses that freedom in spite of the fact that thousands upon thousands of Brits will be deeply offended, affected and hurt and claim that it places Brit lives in jeapardy. Yes, it does place Brit lives in danger, it does affect the family and friends of those in Iraq and it does paint a black picture and if you read the comments on the BBC, this has been criticised by the general public as "unpatriotic", "treachery", "dangerous" and "inconsiderate of the soldiers". Some promised never to buy the paper again. Now, do you see the Brit public out rioting, burning property, threatening the press with bombs, abducting and threatening murder? Nope. This highlights the difference only too well between a tolerant democracy and a society ruled by dictatorial evil vicious religion.

Posted by: Brit Bulldog at February 13, 2006 08:50 AM (VSGms)

96 All muslims are gathered this problem. we accept all cruelty . but this case is not accept. because this cause is our religion. prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h)is our eyes. i did not accept this matter. we will jihaad from nonmuslims we shall finished the nonmuslims from this world.and all the will be world is clean

Posted by: Muhammad Malik at February 14, 2006 03:10 AM (RvDDy)

97 Mohammad Malik Have you ever thought of doing something good for your family or your nation? You wanna defend the Prophet, defend him by your prayers, patience and abidance to his codes and speeches, rahter than silly threatenings and abuses. You wanna make the world clean... why don't you clean yourself and your tongue first. And this is HASAN, a brother in Islam speaking. For me to defend my Prophet, i would make sure that some irrational people like you don't mess up the true image of Islam!!! salam...

Posted by: Hasan at February 14, 2006 06:02 AM (K/6Dj)

98 by the way, (Mohammed) what do you know about Islam!!! why don't you read some of the Quraan and learn from the tremendous wisdoms instead of wasting some time in addressing some trash!!! clean the world!!! from whom!!! nonmuslim?! what about the Chapter "Maryam" (Mary), what about stories of Jesus, Moses, Elie, Loot, Joseph, Ibrahim... for God sake, you hold His name, make sure that you keep respecting it... ya Allah!

Posted by: Hasan at February 14, 2006 06:12 AM (vqJCZ)

99 Muhammed Malik, I am glad for people like you because you show the real underbelly of Islam. That vicious sick little dicktat that lives underneath all religions, but in particular, Islam. Yeah you wanna rid the world of Jews, Christians, Hindus and atheists....just keep talkin' babe because you hasten the death of Islam

Posted by: DT at February 14, 2006 06:50 AM (VSGms)

100 DT, Islam has already been outed as a religion for cretins, merely by the reaction of thousands of them to a few cartoons. They are a bitter, twisted, retarded and sad group of people that will never accept the shortcomings of their own Muslim leaders. They will never accept that the biggest victimizers of Islam is Muslims themselves. They need to take their blinkers off and look in the mirror and accept that. Yeah the British press have printed some stuff that will risk British, but at least the British people have the good sense and grace to accept that freedom of speech and freedom of the press is all part of an advancing world

Posted by: UK girl at February 14, 2006 11:03 AM (VSGms)

101 I have just spent an hour reading down this post. Wow, some of it angered me and some of it inspired me. But the main thing is... you all have the right to say what you want. Matter of fact so do I. As a WHITE ANGLO Canadian born girl I want to say.... I am a muslim by choice. I have rights to say what I want and worship as I want in my country. With that I know and recongnize the RESPONCIBILTY that comes with those freedoms. I am opposed to Zionism and ANY form of extremism in life and in religion. There is not absolute. It is all tolerance and such. There are references being touted about killing infidels and such... an infidel is NOT a jew of christian people. It is a NON BELIEVER. The Qur'an calls jews and christians "people of the Book" or "people of the scripture". And here is what we are to do when they go against us.... Surah 29:46 "And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best (non-violent), except for those who commit injustice amoung them (violence) and say (to them), "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one and we are (all) muslims (in submission) to Him." and to those that do not believe in God? What are we to do???? Surah 109: " Say, O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be a worshipper of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." When you read the WHOLE book you start to get the real message. There are historical references to battles where Muhammed got his commands from God. However, on a daily basis where there is not actual war or attack we are to be peaceful and tolerant to show others what they need to be in order to gain entry into the next life. By forcefully conforming is to act against the Free Will of others. Since that Free Will was given by God I think it is safe to say that we are not supposed to be messing with it. The laws against women and such being forced to wear Hijab.. God did tell us to do so... but He said we had the FREE WILL to obey or disobey. Who the hell is anyone think they are to say I have to or don't have to when God told me I had a choice? Oh the arrogance of all mankind to think they are the end all and be all of it all. I think not. I do not condemn the Danish paper people to death for what they did... I think I'll let them deal with God on that issue and quietly ask that maybe, just maybe, people start realizing that insulting ANY religion is bad form and dishonorable. Even if it is Satanism... it must be respected in order for peoples FREE WILLS to remain as that, Free Will. Hats off to the papers who refused to publish the cartoons because of this code of honor and to try and stop the hateful violence that mars and tarnishes all the hard work the Prophets did over the thousands of years they were among us. Freedom of speech is a right.. but also a responcibility. You also have to deal with things because true freedom is not having a right to do something... but respecting the right of the man who acts against your beliefs. That ladies and gentlemen is freedom. Burning a flag... that is just a flap of fabric that we are so proud of. But really, my nationality and pride are NOT the flag itself but the people behind it. Burn my flag for all I care... just don't burn my people. Did I mention that a true muslim would consider a jew or christian his/her brother and sister? Muslim means "one who surrenders to the Will of God" so jews and christians are in that number and therefore are MY people in all ways. But on a worldly scale... since we really don't know how anyone gets to the next life... we all could be right... we all could be wrong in our beliefs... if you are religious then you believe in the story of Adam and Eve, and that makes us all Adamites and all of you are my people. Whether I like you or not.

Posted by: Kathie at February 14, 2006 05:57 PM (etb4H)

102 Kathie... I don't know if i'm loving your soul, or your brains ... this is a true moment to say (Al Hamd l'Allah) thanks God... I remember last week when greed and hatred filled people’s hearts and souls (for those who declare themselves Muslims and defending the Prophet) and set fire into the Embassy of Denmark in Lebanon (shame on them)…and on the other side, I’ll always feel proud and honored to see more than one million people gathering (yesterday) in the Freedom Square (Martyr’s Square) in Lebanon in a very sad memory of the assassination of the ex-prime minister Dr. Rafiq Al Hariri (RIP)… a memory that will hold all races in Lebanon tight and united… (I wish I was part of this gathering, but I’m outside Lebanon currently. I actually participated in a similar gathering last March 14)… and here I think: If some 100 criminals attacked the Embassy of Denmark, what have they achieved when facing one of the most democratic, modern, peaceful, honorable gathering in the whole world…NOTHING… Dr. Rafiq Al Hariri was Muslim, and for whom doesn’t know, France issued a Medallion by his name in a way of appreciation for the efforts of a great man who changed history… for whom interested in politics, he was the link between USA, FRANCE, KSA, SYRIA, GERMANY; he was LEBANON! My message for those who declare Islam: do whatever you wanna do… “For you is your religion, and for me is my religion…” And for whom who refuse to read and seek truth: let greed and arrogance eat your brains… and again “For you is your religion, and for me is my religion…” For Kathie: I read above and above, and I find this is someone who thinks just like me; as part of the 1.4 billion in the world, I’m sure there is a majority… For all of you: thanks for your time, and for letting me share my belief…

Posted by: Hasan` at February 15, 2006 01:06 AM (QxKL5)

103 Hasan - 1.4 billion people? I had no idea there were that many gullible and weak souls on the face of the earth. You'll find out when you die and fall into that black pit that there is no such thing as Allah, or any God for that. Live life to the full and stop wasting wasting it on some fictitious piece of literature. Death to Islam - get a life

Posted by: Brit Bulldog at February 15, 2006 07:41 AM (VSGms)

104 Brit Bulldog... I would rather die and find out that my faith was for nothing and there that was nothing coming afterwards... in other words... I'd rather die and find out you are right... then for me to be you and die and find out that I was right. What makes religion become a stigma between people is when said religions divide people with hatred. Those many muslims acting out of anger and such are no better then the Christians that call for death and destruction in another nation to protect the "policies" of their own. Here is an interesting ideology... "let's go invade another country so the war doesn't come home to us." Now, go find out where that was a campaign slogan and think on it. And before you judge anyone and their faith do not read media crap. Look at the majority of them and see what they are doing. The muslims doing this violence is a SMALL MINORITY of muslims in the Middle East. Also take a look at these web sites and see a strange MAJORITY that no one is paying any attention to. www.jatonyc.org/ www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ www.jewsnotzionists.org/ www.netureikarta.org/ www.nimn.org/ www.notinourname.net/ When you have seen what an actual majority number of jews say about zionism and Israel then you may understand that a majority of muslims are as offended by the violence and threats of violence incurred by the cartoon controversy as we are by the cartoons themselves. Any muslim that carries a sign calling for death and extermination and claiming that it is "jihad" is insulting me. The "greater" jihad is the one we are to pay the most attention to... and that jihad is the INNER jihad we wage with our own sinful selves. The "lesser" jihad is when we fight for Allah. Since Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah is NOT a loser how can anyone say that they are fighting in His Wars? If they were there would be a clear and desisive winner... since there is not we must use our logical minds to deduce that there is no jihad. And that these wars are man made... man fought... for man's own greed and lust... and in the end will end in man's destruction. So, die and don't live no more... have your belief in that there is no God... that is YOUR choice. I believe God gave you that choice so who am I to try and mess with it with petty arguments. Have a nice life here on earth. Oh, and I do live my life to the fullest. I have lots of fun. Being a muslim doesn't mean you can't party or have a good time. It just means that your good time is a bit more moderated. No throwing up or hangovers for me!!!!!

Posted by: Kathie at February 15, 2006 05:41 PM (QndW8)

105 Kathie - a small minority of Muslims in the middle east? That's rich, seeing as almost every Muslim regime such as those in Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Indonesia, Syria, Saudi (the list is endless)have been historically, and still are, embroiled in oppressing and killing their own people - and yet they still have thousands of Muslim followers based merely on the premise of their antiwestern stance. As long as they are antiwestern, it doesn't matter to their followers if those around them are dying. The sad fact is that you Muslims have no idea where you are going or what you want. You cannot live your life by off-loading the blame onto everything else but yourselves. "Westerners are to blame", "the Jews are to blame", "my pet dog is to blame", "God is to blame" Look at reality and stop living in your fantasy box

Posted by: DT at February 16, 2006 05:41 AM (VSGms)

106 DT... I do not find the Middle Eastern Governments to be a sign of Islamic power. They are in fact, those most guilty of breaking the laws of Islam because they have them there before them and choose to deny those rights and freedoms to their people. You are ABSOLUTELY right about them. There were revolutions starting in those nations to bring back REAL Islamic Law as was given to them by Muhammed (pbuh)... who was also rated one the greatest by white western scholars and others that are given elevated status in our society... http://www7.bev.net/civic/icb/pdf/i44_nmv.pdf But just because Islam at a governmental level and by those that are allowing themselves to be brainwashed by propoganda and lies does not make Islam itself bad or violent. It is mankind who is violent and it is mankind that causes the corruption in these faiths. I do not support any of this violence. I have already stated that I find all sides of these arguements to be misleading liars and thieves. I do not know how else to put it. Those protests are a small minority in those regions. And in every region you will find a small minority of people that are willing to throw their logical minds and fundamental beliefs aside to follow "the man" in charge. I just wish that those of us that do not support any of these aims would be heard without having to be lumped in with all the nuts out there getting all the press time. If it's a quiet protest it gets no press. I wish you didn't have to shoot someone to get heard in this world. But that is the facts... if it's not violent and deadly then it isn't press worthy. The reason the Danish Muslims took these cartoons to Saudi was because they were being ignored in their four month struggle to get thru the legal channels allowed to them under Danish Law. That is what all the fuss is about. The law should apply to all citizens equaly or else it isn't freedom or democracy. Right? Is that not the basis of our beliefs in the west? Do we not see our governments as superior because of this basis of equality under the law? Then when a country has that in their laws they must live up to the reponcibility and not ignore a segment of the population because they don't want to. They wanted the governments to help them get heard and stop them from being ignored. What happened afterwards is horrific ... I can't find the words for it. I wish all those involved in getting those protestors riled up to the point that they do would be charged with some kind of crime. Because it is a crime against humanity, a grievace misuse of governmental and religious power, and a hate crime in my opinion for any of this to have happened. Look at the Muslims in the west. We don't storm about all angry. We aren't burning anything. And when their is violence it is always some off the cuff Immam leading them down a path away from Real Islam. Islam is at war within it's own nation. It suffers the same afflictions as other faiths of corruption at the human level. It doesn't' mean that Islam itself is bad. It means that a minority of it's followers are shaming it in a very bad way. Please don't lump me in with those people. I am angy at them and feel they have insulted me with their childish and down right evil actions.

Posted by: Kathie at February 16, 2006 07:42 PM (W4s/U)

107 To all of you, i'm just reading and i'm getting lost... the same wht happened at the beginning (read plz: Feb 6, 2006; 2:12 a.m.) There will always somebody fighting or arguing with some body… very good, argue peacefully… but are you arguing for a reason or just for the purpose of arguing?! Is it Islam or the Middle East? As a middle eastern, I –honestly speaking- witness the corruption in policies that are prevailing over here (read: Feb 12, 2006; 2:49am)… yet, this doesn’t give Mr. Bush with his “colleagues” any excuse for intervening in other countries… otherwise, please keep in mind, that US will have severe economic outcomes starting in 2010 in a result of miscalculating the results behind huge government spending on DEFENSE (I don’t know if it’s defense or ATTACK) cooped with the biggest deficit, retirement of Baby Boomers, trade deficit, and the evolution of superior competitors (ex. China, & Middle East as well)… I’m speaking about economics; the threshold behind policies and strategies—I mean politics… with this example, I hint on the evolution of politics, and please anybody help me out in finding the link between Politics and Religion… I CAN’T Find any link… even if religion was applied in some codes of conducts, this doesn’t mean that this is politics! Now back to religion… Islam… “Brit Bulldog,” thanks for advising me for having some fun… you know what… let me give you some more background about me… preparing for CFA (chartered financial analyst), I currently work as a consultant for one of the Big Four; my field expertise is Real Estate projects, Leisure, and Tourism… since I’m in Dubai, which is achieving records rates of growth in Tourism and leisure in the WORLD… Let me please invite you for some fun that you are missing over here… I CONSULT FUN… Second, “there’s no Allah to waste time on”… sure… please don’t waste your time too… instead, please come to Dubai, and seek some Fun… but keep in mind the following: Fun and Faith and all feelings are originated from one notion: you can seek for them, you can ask people about them, you can read about them, you can hear about them, you can search GOOGLE for them, but if you don’t FEEL them… you will never KNOW them… you will never FIND them… you will never EXPERIENCE them… the same in SEX… you can’t enjoy it unless having it… Guys… seek you benefits… be sure, that your benefits don’t come on behalf of others losses! Islam and all religions are not be traded with… yet the books of Quraan, the Bible and others are being sold in BOOKSHOPS!!! This is the reason for us not to learn! In my first address point i said: "Am I trying to defend Islam in a way or another?" and i still answer myself... I WILL NOT, cause simply there will be no reason for me to...

Posted by: Hasan at February 18, 2006 12:16 AM (K/6Dj)

108 Has anyone noticed how the posts by Muslims on here are the length of a thesis? He who protesteth too much...

Posted by: A. Nonimos at February 21, 2006 03:52 AM (VSGms)

109 This will make you laugh and realise just how utterly barking these Muslims are. Iranians love Danish pastries, but now when they look for the flaky dessert at the bakery they have to ask for Roses of the Prophet Muhammad. Bakeries across Tehran are covering up the name-plates for Danish pastries after the confectioners union ordered the name change in retaliation for cartoons of Islam's revered prophet first published in a Danish newspaper. No, you cant ask for Danish pastries anymore! Just "Roses of the Prophet Muhammed"....I have to snigger....Roses of the Prophet? The only roses this person offered were axes, swords and child molestation. What will Muslims now call those Great Dane dogs? Dogs of the Prophet? And what about Danish bacon....oh no sorry they can't touch that can they! What about French fries and french baguettes? afterall the french reprinted the cartoons! What will they be called? Baguette de Prophet and deep fried prophet maybe?

Posted by: Brit Bulldog at February 21, 2006 10:07 AM (VSGms)

110 Kathie you ask us to look at Muslims in the west and claim you are not thugs. Thats strange, because the last time I looked there was a suicide bombing that killed 50+ people, a second attempted one and later on a demonstration where Muslims were calling for europeans to be exterminated and beheaded.

Posted by: Me at February 21, 2006 11:05 AM (VSGms)

111 I´m from denmark and i can tell you all, there won´t be any terrorist attacks here. in the news they just stated that, even though the drawings are from Denmark, there is no risk of attack and "The boycott of danish goods", or whatever it is called, won´t affect our economy, only 3% of our international products goes to Iraq, Iran etc. So our products won´t become more expensive..... But still thx for the campaign: "Buy danish". It really shows that people care about Freedom of speech.

Posted by: Tim at February 21, 2006 02:33 PM (VxqPD)

112 Me, dont forget all the muslim rioting in france. they claim they are french kathie

Posted by: Jumper at February 22, 2006 03:40 AM (VSGms)

113 Muslims in France have killed and maimed consistently for weeks last year. These people claim they want to be accepted as French? They had better give themselves French names (Pierre instead of Mohammed might help!) and start acting French then!

Posted by: Zealot at February 22, 2006 04:51 AM (VSGms)

114 Guys, what’s the point?! you just want to express the most arrogant judgements and declare offensive wordings... showing off your so called Democracy, Modernization, freedom of speech and and and... i don't know what is democratic about expressing whatever anybody wants and refusing to listen and discuss with others! ok... Let's try the way around... Thx 'Britbulldog' for the "Barking" word... I wonder who shows off having Dogs and Bulldogs as Idols... Eat this HOT DOG! A. Nonimos... "He who protesteth too much"... sorry, but do you know what does this proverb mean? I suggest you read and discuss rather than declaring proverbs in the wrong place! Democracy is to accept the others’ before declaring your opinion! Me… To clarify results, you should seek adequate reasons… To Put Islam behind terrorism, you should research Terrorism and Islam aside, and then seek if there’s any link among them… for me to understand Christianity, I will not look at the invasion of Iraq by US and count the dead day by day… Tim… honestly speaking, and part of experience… there’s no pleasure more than pride and solidarity! “Buy Danish” is a gr8 step for Danish people in showing solidarity and support for there country… Keep it going… yes, Keep it going! For the newspaper to apologize and clarify its opinion is more than enough… I consider that the case exceeded its limits and dimensions… and responsibility is MUTUAL for those who are still publishing these cartoons for no reasons but Teasing the others and for those who "take violence injections" on breakfast! For the rest discussing Naturalization… this is purely an economic condition that countries differ in the way they perceive it and show their need for it by their internal codes and laws! The French case last year was about the “Hejab”… That’s something totally different!

Posted by: Hasan at February 25, 2006 06:17 AM (K/6Dj)

115 Hasan the behaviour of Muslims worldwide with their rioting, destruction and death threats illustrated perfectly (more perfectly than any cartoon) that Islam gets its fuel from terror and oppression. Even "westernized" Muslims cannot behave, just look at the way you have behaved in France and the UK; you all have a genetic defect that predisposes you to violence, oppression and non-thinking. I feel sorry for you. Never mind, maybe in the years to come when genetic engineering gets more advanced, there will be hope for you

Posted by: Zealot at February 27, 2006 04:02 AM (VSGms)

116 zukeajvli pfouqu

Posted by: Eleanor at February 27, 2006 07:31 PM (Ju6Lu)

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