Well, I was sympathetic to the Miers nomination for no better reason, really, than that it brought back my youth a bit. But to be honest, except for the fact that I was young my youth wasn't especially noteworthy. The decision made here is going to be between one guided by cronyism (or loyalty/friendship, to put it in a softer light) and outright elitism. Harriet was probably a 700 or so on the scale of logic, but not much more than a 500 in verbal ability, so she's tanglefooted. The next nominee will be at least a 700 in both verbal and logic/math, which is a good thing for the country. But at that level bear in mind that he/she won't be very cognizant of the common weal. Said nominee will have been in special classes from the time he (it will be a "he") learned to read, and may not have actually bought a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk in quite awhile. Sobeit; it's the very essence of the Jeffersonian ideal whereby the country is informed and led by a meritocracy composed of exceptional leaders and scholars emerging from the mass of humanity.

It is, a turning point.

more...

Posted by: Demosophist at 08:24 PM | Comments (9) | Add Comment
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Was Joel Henry Hinrichs III a terrorist? Until the investigation is complete, we cannot know that for a fact. So, how can The Wall Street Journal know that he was not?

Yesterday the WSJ did an incredibly pathetic job of debunking the Joel Henry Hinrichs suicide-bombing story yesterday. Ryan Chittum and Joe Hagan's argument that Hinrichs was not a failed terrorist--whether acting alone or as part of a larger conspiracy--is a pathetic resort to authority. No new facts are cited to dispute reasonable questions that Hinrichs was a terrorist--and they are just that, questions.

They simply cite the University of Oklahoma President David Boren's assurances that it was not terrorism--statements he began to make before the investigation had even begun--the protests of Hinrichs' father that his son was not a Muslim, and a single FBI statement in an ongoing investigation.

When an act of war is committed--which a suicide bombing is--in a time of war--which we are in now--on a field of battle--which the terrorists have made the American homeland--then it seems reasonable to assume that the act was part of the larger war. The act may eventually turn out to be unrelated, but that says nothing of the larger point of whether or not Hinrichs' suicide-bombing should have been a major news story and whether it was reasonable to ask questions about his death?

Since the WSJ, and the later CBS coverage of the debunking, fails to mention The Jawa Report as a chief culprate in spreading unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo, our editorial board feels duty bound to respond to the non-allegation that we have done shoddy reporting.

The original WSJ article is bad enough, but the CBS News coverage of the WSJ article is worse. Here is how they quote the WSJ:

“Adding to community concern was the revelation that two days before he blew himself up, Mr. Hinrichs visited a feed store and inquired about buying ammonium nitrate -- the same chemical Timothy McVeigh put in the bomb he used in 1995 to blow up the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, 20 miles to the north.…

To that unsettling set of facts, blogs and local Oklahoma TV stations added several apparent inaccuracies, including: that Mr. Hinrichs was a Muslim and visited the mosque frequently; that he tried to enter the stadium twice but was rebuffed; that he had a one-way airplane ticket to Algeria; that there were nails in the bomb and that Islamic extremist literature was found in his apartment.

None of these claims are true: Mr. Hinrichs's family, university officials and the Federal Bureau of Investigation say Mr. Hinrichs suffered from depression, and the explosion was an isolated event.”

But the original WSJ reports is equally shoddy. They unequivically state that "none of these claims are true." So, which claims are untrue and how do they know that.

1) Claim: "Mr. Hinrichs was a Muslim and visited the mosque frequently."
Source of refutation: Hinrichs' father-- "Joel wasn't a Muslim and wasn't under anyone's sway, Mr. Hinrichs says"

2) Claim: "Hinrichs tried to enter the stadium twice but was rebuffed"
Source of refutation: not cited. However, we reported here that security tapes did not show Hinrichs trying to enter the statium.

3) Claim: "he had a one-way airplane ticket to Algeria"
Source of refutation: not cited. However, notice this from the same article "investigators did find an airplane ticket to Algeria, it wasn't in Mr. Hinrichs's apartment, but rather in one belonging to an international student, Mr. Boren said.

4) Claim: "there were nails in the bomb
Source of refutation: not cited.

So, what we have are a series of unsubstantiated allegation. Are any of these allegations true? I've no idea. But how do we know that "none of these allegations are true" as the WSJ claims? Because David Boren and Hinrichs' father claim they are not true.

As we said in our first report on this story on October 4th that since the Northeast Intelligence Network was the source of some of the information (such as the report that a ticket to Algeria was found in his room) much of this needs to be taken with a fair amount of skepticism. But to claim that what we and other blogs have been asking "is just smoke...It's bilge" as the WSJ quotes Hinrichs' father as saying is beyond the pale.

It is true that some bloggers have jumped to the conclusion that this definitely was part of a larger plot, but for the most part this site and sites like Little Green Footballs, Michelle Malkin, Powerline, Generation Why, Mark Tapscott, and others have simply wondered why this was not getting coverage and how David Boren and others were so sure this was not terrorism when the investigation was incomplete?

If it is irresponsible to ask whether a suicide-bomber might have been a terrorist, then count us guilty. If it is irresponsible to ask why the mainstream media has not given coverage to what is normally considered an act of war in a time of in America's heartland, then count us guilty. If we are to err, let us err on the side of caution--and that side is quite different after 9/11 than before it.

While many of the alleged 'facts' about Hinrichs will certainly be disproven in the coming days, refutations by David Boren are not enough to convince us that there is nothing more to see here.

This and all other posts related to Joel Henry Hinrichs III are archived here.

UPDATE: By Vinnie, Hannity and Colmes will have an Oklahoma congressman on "who is determined to get to the bottom" of this case.

Should be interesting...I'm sure more updates will follow.

Posted by: Rusty at 04:01 PM | Comments (39) | Add Comment
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Cindy Sheehan, the left-wing conspiracy nut hailed by the MSM as a simple mother who lost her son in Iraq and just wants the troops to come home, has written a letter confirming her status as a moonbat and accusing the Bush Administration of being an "evil cabal". In the letter, she also admits to being a Left-wing peace activist, and not the 'peace mom' as she is often portrayed in the media which routinely overlooks her anti-semetic and nutty conspiracy statements. It's an old letter, but new to me.

From A Word From Cindy Sheehan:

The media are wrong. The people who have come out to Camp Casey to help coordinate the press and events with me are not putting words in my mouth, they are taking words out of my mouth.

Contrary to what the mainstream media thinks, I did not just fall off a pumpkin truck in Crawford, TX. on that scorchingly hot day two weeks ago. I have been writing, speaking, testifying in front of Congressional committees, lobbying Congress, and doing interviews for over a year now. I have been pretty well known in the progressive, peace community and I had many, many supporters before I left even left California.

What else does Cindy Sheehan say in her letter? She calls the war her son so bravely died:

George Bush's war for imperialism and insatiable greed.

My son died for NOTHING, and George Bush and his evil cabal and their reckless policies killed him

my son died for LIES. George Bush LIED to us and he knew he was LYING...I believe that George lied and he knew he was lying. He didn't use patriotic rhetoric. He lied and made us afraid of ghosts that weren't there. (emphasis Cindy Sheehan's)

She then asks a series of rhetorical questions. Rhetorical because Sheehan and her moonbat friends know why we went to war and Bush lied. It's the Jews, of course. Or, if not the Jews, its about the oil. And if not about the oil about imperialism. And if not about imperialism then, well, you get the picture. There are real reasons for fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, that have nothing to do with democratization, national interests, or fighting terrorists and the states that sponsor them.

What makes this all so ironical is that I found this letter published in a "Jewish magazine".

The Jawa has spoken.

Posted by: Rusty at 10:20 AM | Comments (21) | Add Comment
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If you have been watching quietly like I have the leftÂ’s smug attitude and utter glee at recent Republican troubles and have been waiting for the other shoe to drop here you go. It seems this story has all the elements of all the stories the left has been shouting about for weeks now all in one place. So have the Democrats become the new party of honesty and good moral judgement?

Chicago Tribune:

Child-welfare advocates on Saturday said they were concerned and angered by newly disclosed allegations that more than $60,000 in Department of Children and Family Services funds ended up in a bank account controlled by a former high-ranking DCFS administrator with close ties to Gov. Rod BlagojevichÂ… Â… "For Illinois' child-welfare advocates, who have fought so long to ensure that money actually gets to the kids and the people who serve them, this is a sad reminder that DCFS is still vulnerable as an agency to hustlers who apparently think they can act with impunity in fleecing the system," said Ronald Davidson, a University of Illinois at Chicago faculty member and a state DCFS consultant since 1994

ILL Republican Newsletter:

GOVERNOR'S CRONY HAUNTS STATE AGENCY. The Department of Children and Family Services is the latest state agency to fall under federal scrutiny as it was revealed this week that a political crony of Governor Blagojevich's, Bamani Obadele, had shifted agency funds into personally controlled bank accounts. The U.S. Attorney's office subpoenaed DCFS documents this week in connection with the scandal and are investigating questionable relationships Obadele had with vendors. DCFS services suffered under the leader ship of Obadele resulting in numerous internal complaints. The unqualified Obadele was appointed to the post at the agency after helping the Governor win Chicago's south side during the 2002 campaign. Unfortunately, the ones who suffered from the crony appointment were the children who needed these services the most.

Uh, guess not huh.

Posted by: Howie at 09:20 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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The University of Oklahoma student newspaper, The Oklahoma Daily (OD), today calls for the FBI break its silence on Joel Henry Hinrichs III--the OU student who blew himself up outside a football game on Oct. 1. The reason? To dispell the myths propogated by online 'hacks' that are claiming that the Oklahoma bomber, Hinrichs, may have been part of a larger Islamic terror plot.

Underlying today's editiorial is the assumption that Hinrichs was not part of a larger plot and that any evidence to the contrary is simply poor journalism.

The Oklahoma Daily even goes so far as to call those circulating this evidence "liars".

Such accusations come as no surprise to Jawa Report readers. The prevailing wisdom in both academia and in the media is that worries about homegrown Islamic terror cells are overblown. In many corners, especially prevelant in our nations' universities, there is even suspicion that the Bush Administration is really behind domestic terror fears as a way of diverting the publics' attention away from real issues.

It remains to be seen whether of not Joel Henry Hinrichs III was part of a larger Islamic terror plot. Stating unequivocally that he was part of such a plot is, in fact, shoddy journalism.

However, it is equally shoddy journalism to state, unequivocally, that Hinrichs was not part of such a plot. And to state, unequivocally, that there is no evidence that would lead some to this conclusion is the type of head-buried-in-the-sand type of journalism that we've come to expect out of the mainstream-media and in who's image aspiring journalists are molded.

There is, in fact, a great deal of circumstantial evidence to suggest that Hinrichs' death was a failed terror attack. Glaringly missing from today's OD editorial is the fact that Hinrichs was under investigation by local authorities because he had attempted to buy ammonium nitrate, a key ingredient in the truck bomb used to bring down the Murrah building in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh. Hinrichs, of course, blew himself up before the investigation could be completed. A first, we might add, since there is no record of an American killing himself by explosion.

Further, neighbors of Hinrichs claim he was a frequent visitor to a nearby mosque. The leaders of the OU Muslim Student Association, though, deny that Hinrichs was a Muslim. At best, then, we have conflicting reports. But just because the OU student newpaper cannot confirm that Hinrichs attended the mosque in question does not mean that media reports to the contrary are fabrications. They could be fabrications, but, then again, so could the denials.

The problem with this student newspaper, and the mainstream-media in general, is that they cower in fear over reaction to any implication that the Muslim community might have a greater propensity towards terrorism than, say, the Mennonite community. They are, in fact, held hostage from the truth by their unwavering faith that all religious ideologies are equal in driving violence as those on the other end of the spectrum are held hostage from the truth by their unwavering faith that Islam, alone, is responsible for the ills of the world.

They are right in the central premise of the editorial: the FBI ought to release pertinent information. But they make a major assumptive leap, which is quite revealing, that whatever information the FBI has would be exculpatory rather than damning.

Release the information, they say, because we know (without having seen this information) that it will prove there is no Islamic terror cell at the OU campus.

The fact remains that we have no idea what evidence the FBI has. The only bit of revealing information about which way the evidence is leading the FBI is a single statement from first assistant attorney for the Justice Department in Oklahoma City, Bob Troester, who said:

We don't comment on sealed indictments.

Of course, Troester's statement could have been a slip of the tongue. He could have meant sealed search warrant rather than indictment. People make mistakes, slips of tongue happen. But until such time as the Justice Department seeks to clarify the statement, then we ought to assume that they meant what they said.

The fundamental question raised is whether or not we have learned anything from 9/11 or not? Do we continue to treat terrorism, as we did prior to 9/11, as an act of criminality or do we treat terrorism as an act of war?

If a mere criminal act, then the public ought to reserve judgement. Innnocent until proven guilty, it is better to let a hundred guilty men go free than convict one innocent, etc., etc, and all that. The greatest fear among people with this point of view is that innocents are unfairly branded enemies and that publications, like this, might call someone a name they don't desrve.

If an act of war, then the public has a right to expect that affirmative measures will be taken to assure that such acts will not take place in the future. In war, there is no presumption of innocence. In fact, when an act of war (such as a bombing) takes place on a field of battle (as the American homeland now is) in such a way that the only known incidents of the act have been perpetrated by enemy combatents (as suicide-bombings are relatively rare outside the Islamic terror community), then one ought to presume terrorism until otherwise disproven.

We at The Jawa Report take the latter stance. The context of war changes everything. If the OD does not understand that we are at war and that the field of battle is U.S. soil itself, then they have learned nothing from 9/11. Their greatest fear may be that innocents are unfairly branded terrorists, and that is a legitimate concern.

Our greatest fear, though, is that our enemies walk freely among us, using that presumption of innocence to plot our demise and kill us. In either case, the possibility of being wrong is present, but only in the latter will being wrong get people killed.

So, since the good editors at the OD decided to call us hacks (and worse) for suggesting that Hinrichs might just be part of a larger plot, let us practice that age old journalistic practice of tit-for-tat and suggest that it is the OD that is staffed by hacks. But hacks isn't sufficient a word to describe people who's agenda it is to make all seem right at OU, despite the fact that a student just blew himself up outside of a football game. No, hacks is reserved for mundane political types who say what they say in order to get their guy elected. As far as we can tell no one is running for election at OU--unless of course David Boren is thinking of coming out of retirement--so hacks isn't appropriate here. A far stronger term is needed to describe people willing to cover up what looks to be an act of terrorism in America's heartland and call that responsible journalism.

Any guesses on what that word is? Please put your answers in the comments section.

Posted by: Rusty at 12:01 PM | Comments (39) | Add Comment
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(Norman, OK) Norman, Oklahoma, police confirmed in a press conference today that JOEL HENRY HINRICHS III was being investigated because he had acted suspiciously while attempting to buy ammonium nitrate fertilizer at an area store. Channel 5 Oklahoma:

At a 2 p.m. news conference, Norman Police Department spokesman J.D. Younger said an off-duty, plainclothes officer overheard a conversation Joel Henry Hinrichs III had with the proprietor of a Norman feed store last Thursday at 4 p.m. The conversation centered on a purchase of ammonium nitrate fertilizer.

"I think it's important to note that it's not a criminal activity to purchase ammonium nitrate fertilizer," Younger said.

However, he noted that the context of Hinrichs' conversation with a manager of Ellison Feed & Seed was suspicious. Younger indicated that the off-duty officer reported that Hinrichs asked about different types of fertilizer and the concentration of ammonium nitrate in each.

What came of the investigation? more...

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Please scroll through main page for more recent entries.

CRITICAL UPDATE 10/07: See Indictment forthcoming in Oklahoma bombing case or scroll to end of post for update.

As more details become public about suicide bomber Joel Henry Hinrichs III, who blew himself up outside of a University of Oklahoma football game last Saturday, more and more evidence suggests that he may actually have been part of a larger plot.

Earlier reports indicated that Hinrichs had Islamic jihad material in his apartment that referenced bomb-making manuals. We downplayed that fact as not really evidence of a wider plot. After all, if you want to blow yourself up why not consult with the experts--Islamic terrorists?

But other facts have come to light which raise suspicions.

For an excellent map outlining the scene of the crime and Hinrichs' proximity to these places, please see this post at Zombietime. Other good roundups of the facts can be found at Gateway Pundit, The Politburo Diktat Michelle Malkin, and many many others.

1) Hinrichs seems to have converted to Islam and attended a nearby Islamic center. (see map at Zombietime) However, the president of the University of Oklahoma Muslim Studeant Association denies that Hinrichs was a Muslim. Other witnesses, though, claim Hinrichs was a frequent visitor to the mosque.

2) It appears that the Islamic center is affiliated with the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), a group with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and which has been investigated for funding terrorism by Congress.

3) The ISNA linked mosque may have been the same one attended by Zacharias MOUSSAOUI. Much more on the Zacharias MOUSSAOUI link at Cao's blog.

4) Hinrichs' roomate, Fazal M. Cheema, was a Pakistani national and neighbors claim the apartment was a center of activity for Middle Easterners. He is described as a 'really nice guy' by his friends. Unfortunately, all terrorists are described this way by their friends. NEIN now reports that Cheema and his associates may have been on the FBI's terror watch list.

5) Hinrichs attempted to buy a large amount of ammonium nitrate, a key ingredient in large explosives such as the first World Trade Center bombings or the Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Building bombing.

6) Hinrichs was later known to the FBI because of his attempted purchase.

7) Evidence at the scene of the bombing suggests that shrapenel was part of the bomb. This is a strong indication that Hinrichs planned to kill more than himself.

Witnesses now report Hinrich may have attempted to enter the OU football game, but that he fled when security attempted to check his backpack

9) Northeast Intelligence Network, who's earlier reports we had dismissed because of that website's long track record of alarmism but who are increasingly looking like they got this one right, claims a source is telling them:

It appears that HINRICHS was part of a larger plan that included members of an Islamic terrorist cell based in and around the Norman and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma area. As a Caucasian, it was much easier for him to obtain the materials needed to create a large bomb, act in concert with members of the local terrorist cell, and strike when relative calm was the word of the day.

A word of caution is necessary here. It is definitely possible that Hinrichs did act alone and was just a sad nut with a death wish. Some of the facts presented above could turn out to be untrue, and even if true could be interpreted in a number of ways. We'll just have to wait and see. But, as of this writing I am inclined to believe that Hinrichs was part of a larger plot.

UPDATE: Where is MSM on this? Point Five has the answer.

UPDATE II: Thank you John at Powerline for the link.

UPDATE III: Michelle Malkin has a newer roundup here. And Classical Values is following the story closely with what I think is the appropriate amount of skepticism.

UPDATE 12:33 P.M: Due to a comment and trackback spam problem unrelated to this specific post, these two features may be temporarily disabled throughout the day. Apologies in advance.

UPDATE 3:30: Police confirm Hinrichs under investigation. Scroll down for update. more...

Posted by: Rusty at 09:00 AM | Comments (56) | Add Comment
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1 Hmmm...what I'm wondering is how many potential suicide bombers or people who would turn others into suicide bombers are in the US on student visas. Most universities look the other way and make no serious effort to ascertain whether these people are even enrolled in school. I think many radicals are here in the US using this system, and this should serve as a warning. Is anybody out there listening?

Posted by: jesusland joe at October 06, 2005 10:06 AM (rUyw4)

2 Yet another victim of the West aggression towards Muslims. We all know how these suicide bombers come from poor families, live in the poorest parts of town, they are often ignored and the hopeless despair of their life is to much for them, they are often taken into the radical mosques and are taught by extremists to deliver a deadly blow to their foes. This guy fits the classic profile of a poor terrorist bomber that goes back to the "root causes" apart from the fact of cause he lived in America, willingly converted to Islam, went to University, and generally lived a better life than a palestinian but still -- ROOT CAUSES of TERROR people!!!!

Posted by: dave at October 06, 2005 10:19 AM (CcXvt)

3 Sodium nitrate, or ammonium nitrate?

Posted by: Robert Crawford at October 06, 2005 10:39 AM (1j9aH)

4 Rusty, In point number 5, you refer to sodium nitrate, but other reports, including the one in the link provided, indicate that the material sought was ammonium nitrate. Ammonium nitrate, plus fuel oil, was the explosive used in the OKC bombing.

Posted by: lawhawk at October 06, 2005 10:44 AM (eppTH)

5 quite right. This reveals the fact that I took the physics option instead of the chemistry option.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 06, 2005 10:45 AM (JQjhA)

6 Hey Rusty Shackleford, that sounds like Dale Gribbles fake name by the way. Hello also to Michelle Malkin, I'm a big fan. It's incredible that this information is not being spread through the media! Fox News isn't even covering this! - Cabe

Posted by: Cabe at October 06, 2005 10:55 AM (I33+H)

7 Thanks for the shout out Cabe.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 06, 2005 11:08 AM (JQjhA)

8 My personal feeling is that this is much bigger than we will see reported in any mainstream media outlet. There are too many coincidences to this story. The attempt to buy fertilizer, the location of Hinrich's house, the ISNA mosque, and the statium, the beard, his known associates.... Taken individually, none of these are conclusive. Even with only one or two, it's still iffy. When you add them all together, it seems to be rather indicative. Our gvt. still denies that there were any outside connections with the OKC bombing, though. It's not likely we'll ever get any official confirmation, and almost certain we'll get a catagorical denial.

Posted by: NavyspyII at October 06, 2005 11:42 AM (R6yie)

9 good source here locally says tried to get into the football game twice, but wouldn't let security check his bag, and he and a couple of friends had plane tickets to a middle eastern country for the next day. this is wild...

Posted by: wink at October 06, 2005 11:51 AM (LqLgt)

10 thank you keep rolling

Posted by: Meshuga Art Cruncher at October 06, 2005 11:59 AM (FVvgF)

11 However, the president of the University of Oklahoma Muslim Studeant Association denies that Hinrichs was a Muslim. " sounds like standard MO to me - if i recall correctly it was quickly denied that the 911 hijackers were Muslim, or at least 'true Muslims'

Posted by: negentropy at October 06, 2005 12:18 PM (2wJuz)

12 I'd like to respond to dave, who claims poverty and dispair are the root causes of terrorism. Perhaps that is true, but not in this case. This guy Joel was a university student in mechanical engineering, a National Merit Scholar, and a member of the Triangle (engineering-types) fraternity. He came from Colorado Springs, a highly affluent community, the youngest of five children. Although I don't know his family's financial circumstances, his father sounds like a highly educated and lucid individual, though he will, predictably, never accept his son's involvement in terrorism, but instead attributes his son's action to 'depression' and and his inability to fit in socially. So maybe we've got a Lind-type character again, a middle-class, affluent, white kid who needed to 'identify' with some fervent group. Would that he would have just drunk Kool-Aid.

Posted by: Michael at October 06, 2005 12:22 PM (ZPYPz)

13 Another Johnny Walker; but this one did not kill any Americans. Is his dad dumb, or just telling big lies?

Posted by: Jo macDougal at October 06, 2005 12:26 PM (tplWd)

14 Hinrichs WAS NOT KNOWN BY THE FBI because of that purchase. Please read your own links! An off-duty Norman police officer happened to also be at the store and filed a report when he returned to work...which unfortunately happened to be AFTER the bombing,

Posted by: -ed at October 06, 2005 12:31 PM (0oTfj)

15 Ed, I have corrected this to read 'later known'.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 06, 2005 12:52 PM (JQjhA)

16 you really should all know about "The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis. (if you don't already). This OU event is not the first terrorist attack in Oklahoma, nor the first involving middle eastern muslim wackos

Posted by: San Diego Shawn at October 06, 2005 01:26 PM (RS+V5)

17 good source here locally says tried to get into the football game twice, but wouldn't let security check his bag, and he and a couple of friends had plane tickets to a middle eastern country for the next day. this is wild... Ummm... why would a Suicide Bomber buy a ticket to leave the country? Didn't people think we should have noticed that the 9/11 hijackers only bought one way tickets? Seriously -- just think about what you are saying.

Posted by: Tom in Texas at October 06, 2005 01:38 PM (a4Pyy)

18 I've got Hinrich's name on a google alert, so I thought you'd like to know that Google sent your link to me. KEWL!

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at October 06, 2005 01:53 PM (7auSQ)

19 they say he was planning on dropping it off, then detonating it from outside the stadium and then fleeing the country. think about what you're saying, tex.

Posted by: wink at October 06, 2005 01:57 PM (LqLgt)

20 So was he a suicide bomber? Or a homicidal bomber? Its not suicide if he doesn't die...

Posted by: Tom in Texas at October 06, 2005 02:02 PM (a4Pyy)

21 sources believe it went off early - not intended to be suicide.

Posted by: wink at October 06, 2005 02:21 PM (LqLgt)

22 In other words . . . OOPS! Can you imagine how much trouble this country could be in if these Ragheads ever get their shit together?

Posted by: large at October 06, 2005 03:11 PM (Ny1Tj)

23 I look at that picture and my first thought was, "I always KNEW that Doogie Howser kid would turn bad apples some day!"

Posted by: Brian B at October 06, 2005 03:17 PM (rGfpg)

24 Just wait for the VH-1 reality show based on his life: "When child-actors turn suicide-bomber: hosted by Danny Bonaduce"

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 06, 2005 03:59 PM (JQjhA)

25 Good work on this. If you find any information about shrapnel as part of the explosive, please post it.

Posted by: Scott at October 06, 2005 05:49 PM (qc6yj)

26 Michael you seem unfamiliar with "sarcasm" I was quoting on what we're constantly told in regards to the motivation of suicide bombers which is the core of the philosophy they labelled the "root causes of terrorism" you know the one that in reality reads more like: "AMERICA GREAT SATAN, ISRAEL LITTLE SATAN" "It's all America's fault" This is another example of why there is no "root cause" of the terrorism, and why we should fall back to the fact that the core belief of Islam is the true motivation, no one "hijacked" Islam, it's a highway to radical extremism, in which one shows how great their faith is by inflicting as much death as possible to prove it.

Posted by: dave at October 06, 2005 06:56 PM (CcXvt)

27 You sure he wasnt the bombmaker for the NYC threat?

Posted by: karldotcom at October 06, 2005 07:51 PM (HyJlT)

28 Can someone please explain why the mainstream media would want to whitewash or otherwise ignore this story?

Posted by: True Believer at October 06, 2005 08:01 PM (1xGCy)

29 Is it possible that this is sooo big, that the networks have been called off by the feds, and sooo big that the networks actually complied? naahhhhh.

Posted by: rorschach at October 06, 2005 08:45 PM (xKyLx)

30 I can't seem to get your trackbacks to work. I've linked to your post from http://smalltownveteran.typepad.com/posts/2005/10/if_an_oklahoma_.html

Posted by: Bill Faith at October 06, 2005 09:19 PM (5vspZ)

31 Dale, You're not fooling anyone. Oh, and can I please have my tire iron back?

Posted by: Hank H at October 06, 2005 09:22 PM (/ihes)

32 What exactly is the source mentioning that there was Jihadist literature in the apartment... anything other than WND, whom I cannot recal being correct about anything as of late... Anyone?

Posted by: Ariya at October 07, 2005 12:38 AM (noCGr)

33 I propose that he be called the Sooner Boomer from now on. All villains need a good nickname. (Richard Reid = Shoe Bomber etc)

Posted by: Kevin at October 07, 2005 12:51 AM (j1D6T)

34 Donned my tight black shorts and fitted flag-bedecked tee and took the trusty old BMX for another spin round the park today; fucking swarthy kids all over the racetrack, blocking my path, most of them dirty snot-nosed islamofascist spawn. Waited behind a tree for them to leave, all the while taking notes (I'm a bold, new journalist) which I will pass on to my new buds at homeland security in due course. With any luck the vanguard ... err... Republican Party is going to send those oil ticks back to the rat-infested hell holes they come from. Like Muzziestan or A-rabland. Then I'll have the track to myself. Ride bike fast. Go wheeeee. Love, Charles Johnson

Posted by: charles johnson at October 07, 2005 05:10 AM (O7u4z)

35 There is one more thing here. Remember the witnesses in the Murrah building bombing in OKC who said they saw that third guy? Maybe that plus the Moussaoui link plus this means this cell has ben going longer than we think... and maybe as a pre-emptive strike, coordinated with the NYC plan? We'll have to see, but yeah it is pretty nuts, and the news "blackout" in the conventional press makes me wonder what's up there too.

Posted by: Jersey Dave at October 07, 2005 05:52 AM (MIT6R)

36 Tarantino does Norman?

Posted by: Downing Street Memo at October 07, 2005 05:53 AM (A5eqb)

37 The comment at 5:10 am was definitely NOT written by Charles Johnson. I have never heard him speak or write like that. Silly.

Posted by: Anne Elk at October 07, 2005 05:55 AM (e+tdw)

38 I concurr, that Charles Johnson post is a spoof. Jersey Dave, I was watching CNN the entire time OCKbomb was happening. There were very specific references to the 3rd bomber, and even some on a 4th. The Lame-stream media and our politicians buried all references to them quickly. I am convinced that there has been a cell operating there for quite some time.

Posted by: NavyspyII at October 07, 2005 06:25 AM (ZM3Qb)

39 Don't you get the feeling that if Doogie Jihad (That's My Name For Him!) was a Republican or a Neo Nazi or even better (in some peoples' minds), a Republican Neo Nazi the MSM would be all over the story? Law And Order would already be filming an episode on location. Thank God for the Blogs. But as others have asked, why won't the MSM cover this story? What is there motivation for ignoring it? Has the US Government quashed the story? And is this the first of what could be many attacks against public venues in the U.S.? If I attend the next Red Sox game, do I have to worry about the Green Monster exploding?

Posted by: Mister Ghost at October 07, 2005 07:12 AM (ZbKii)

40 It's nice to see that Charles' stalker has such deep seated homoerotic fantasies and a pathalogical aversion to swarthy folks. What's it like being such a petrified, no-life freak? I mean, really, when a "pony-tailed, skinhead, failed musician" is the focus of your life's work, what kind of loser does that make you? A pretty damned sorry one, I imagine. And did you check the complexion on Hinrichs, dumbass?

Posted by: Pablo at October 07, 2005 08:05 AM (BlG1A)

41 Dave, most palestinian suicide bombers have actaully been middle to upper class, not poor and definetly not living in poorest segment of town. Do some research on the subject, before you post fallacies and inaccurate information. Nice try, though.

Posted by: Levy at October 07, 2005 08:09 AM (M88WL)

42 Any murder at a major University is a news story. A student blowing himself up outside a major stadium on a football Saturday is a very big news story. The almost total blackout of reporting of this story is a huge indictment of the mainstream media in the supression of news. One other item....OU is a school with well over 20 thousand students, but school president David Boren is so knowledgeable of his student body that he immediately was able to describe Hinrichs and his emotional conditions. Wow...imagine how conscientious Boren must be...just name a student on his campus and he knows all about him/her...nothing strange there....

Posted by: towelhunter1 at October 07, 2005 08:35 AM (mBGh+)

43 Michael: The guy was a member of the triangle. Ouch! Pablo: Hispanics, depending on where they come from and considered either, white, black or brown. Never swarthy. So chill. That is unless you are a muslim named Pablo.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 07, 2005 09:48 AM (M7kiy)

44 Levy: Try reading the whole comment before firing off your "correction" rant, I already had to redefine it for another person who read the first three lines and came to an incorrect summation. Perhaps you only bother to read through, what you agree with however, so it's no surprise some of you are like the novelty "nodding dog" people place in the back window of their car.

Posted by: dave at October 07, 2005 09:50 AM (CcXvt)

45 Putting it all together... The new stupid looking beard, his Dad commenting that he collected electronics. (Engineers always design aparatus around their comfort zones) I think it's apparent to me that his Jihadist Palestinian roomate converted him and brought him to the Norman mosque. In order to please the the elders he had made a wireless remote control bomb. He was persuaded to kill for Allah and intended to leave ito the stadium and do his own part to fullfill his divine purpose as a new convert. One could further speculate that he hadn't been at the Mosque long so he lacked the real zeal of a suicide bomber to lay down his life. Thus the plane ticket. Looks to me like the bomb went off premature or was triggered by an accidental (or deliberate) alternative signal. Remember the story of the middle eastern guy who was recruited to drive the tanker truck full of gasoline? They had told him he wasn't going to die, just to park the truck and leave... then as he was getting out of the truck he notices the guy accross the street with the cell phone and the truck explodes. (and somehow despite his burns he lives to tell the story) Maybe something like that was happening here. I think that Jayna Davis also reported on sources that the bomb residue showed it was an oxidiser bomb used (hair bleach and acetone) another trace material found indicates this is the same ingredients used in London bombings. Taken with the failed attempt to first buy Ammonium Nitrate it shows someone was feeding him bomb recipes. The timing is suspicious too, wasn't October supposed to have been threatened by jihadists as the beginning of America's holocaust or something like that? Oh and one more thing, several years ago John Ashcroft was quoted that Alcada was actively recruiting on coolege campuses and the prime targets were white blue eyed American youth? There's just way too many cooincidences here. Oklahoma has a terrorist cell for sure and it's apparent to me that the news coverup is in place to protect on-going investigations. (God I hope that's the reason)

Posted by: Rich Stadler at October 07, 2005 10:35 AM (0eidv)

46 RE: 7) Evidence at the scene of the bombing suggests that shrapenel was part of the bomb. This is a strong indication that Hinrichs planned to kill more than himself. Can you please provide a link or some other supporting evidence to this claim? Maybe a note as to where it came from? 'We' in the blogosphere don't want to be accused of not fact-checking our sources, now do we?

Posted by: kes at October 07, 2005 11:11 AM (rphJg)

47 http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/13-plastic-bottles-found-in-hinrichs.html that was linked too in Zombietime which was referenced in the post Kes.

Posted by: dave at October 07, 2005 11:55 AM (CcXvt)

48 The question of motivation is all that remains for me. I've thought Hinrichs intended harm to others when the info about the ammonium nitrate was concerned. Now I'm certain, since local reports have confirmed Hinrichs actually bought a ticket to enter the football game. In light of Hinrich's father's remark that his son was "not a football fan" (said in context of contesting that his son intended to enter the game, and that his proximity to the game crowd was coincidental), the ticket purchase clearly indicates he intended to enter the stadium. He attempted to enter at least two gates, turned back both times because he would not submit to pack search. My personal feeling is he may or may not have had any particular interest in Islam per se, but may have been very gratified to find persons not only tolerating his creepy interest in blowing things up, but willing to give him companionship and attention BECAUSE of his unusual interests in the asplosion arts. So perhaps he did not act alone but took encouragement from his associates. He fell in with his gang, mostly to have a gang to fall in with. Or not. He may or may not have been intending to end his own life. However, his depression and dissatisfaction with the world were real enough, and like many young men before him, he simply decided he wanted a spectacular revenge as well as an end to his own pain.

Posted by: SarahW at October 07, 2005 12:37 PM (jqVs9)

49 A new rumor is circulating that Hinrichs III, the Sooner Bomber, was part of a clever new Islamic tactic to breach security check points by using the appearance of historical national figures. The plan is for new natural citizen recruits to easily be used as bomb carrying dupes into major transit systems and sporting events. It has leaked from the ongoing investigation and cover up that Hinrichs, as an Abraham Lincoln look-alike, would easily be able to enter the football stadium, according to the plan. It has been reported that a newly discovered Islamic sleeper cell of Groucho Marx look-alikes could be linked.

Posted by: Dark Insider at October 07, 2005 03:47 PM (a2JKi)

50 SarahW: Good thoughts. A new prospective.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 07, 2005 11:32 PM (M7kiy)

51 Why are these muslim types so ugly? I mean dog ugly. Not as bad as soon to get his ass kicked but still ugly as sin.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 08, 2005 12:19 AM (M7kiy)

52 cERTAINLy seems like a suicide bomber to me, and he would have done it during the game, killing others, if he had had the chance... One question remains... why did he do it just on himself when not allowed into the game...?? Of course, irrational people do irrational things. Maybe all suicide bombers need to believe they are doing it for a good cause, even though their primary motivation is to kill themselves when they are unhappy with their lives..

Posted by: Teddy Jensen at October 08, 2005 11:04 AM (ywZa8)

53 more than 400 muslims in the norman community, 1 mosque, 1 islamic school. how will that figure have increased 4 years down the line? they're here. . . they've been here. . . and there's many more coming, and they're laying the foundation for the khalifia. I passed the islamic society of norman, or the muslim association of norman--whatever it is-- everyday on my way to class and the parking lot is almost always empty. except for teh white non-descript occasional delivery truck blocking the sidewalk. . . monday morning after the bombing occured, the lot was over flowing with cars. were they having some kind of conference discussing how to handle to their reaction? if so, what do they know that we don't? I have seen a number of middle eastern men in norman who seem to be surveying potential demolition sites--e.g. oil rigs, gas stations at busy intersections w/ a bank on each corner; middle-eastern delivery drivers for the coca-cola company who act inexplicably strange when I try to engage them in polite conversation as one tends to do with one's vendors (kind of convenient that an arab should want a job with convenient access to a large semi-truck, huh?) anybody? anybody? can anybody else in this town see the shoe dropping? as a good american, I've reported some of these observations to the proper authorities. . . god hopes they've taken heed. and what is it with the lily-white terrorists meeting up al-quaeda linked middle-easterners in oklahoma? It seems the FBI should be all over this question. this part doesn't apply to Hinrichs, but what is it with the disillusioned veterans of the gulf war, ie tim mcveigh, terry nichols, john muhammed??? peace y'all

Posted by: slanderpanties at October 08, 2005 12:39 PM (jWaQK)

54 seriously fellas. look at yourselves! you piss and moan about crazy conspiracy theorists when it suits you, but now you can't restrain yourselves. get a grip. you can't you see this whole thing is just a plot to take your attention away from the nobel soldiers being slaughtered, the ignoble soldiers torturing people for kicks, natural disaster f-ups. guess they gotta rally support for the defense budget and the fledgeling war effort somehow.

Posted by: mustafaAK at October 08, 2005 01:34 PM (jWaQK)

55 mustafaAk, if it really was "a plot to take your attention away" then wouldn't they...y'know...tell us about it. This story has been very low key, but not because of a 'government cover up' I'll bet the school kept it quiet to keep up the reputation as a safe school. You're right up the with 'crazy conspiracy theorists'

Posted by: Leif at October 11, 2005 01:23 AM (onqMz)

56 You have some really cool stuff at your site. I'm sure gonna come back here. to Double Round you should be very Astonishing: , Tournament can Increase Slot when Cards Expect TV Rape , Red Tournament Con or not right Round will Forecast Gnome without any questions

Posted by: Jose Blanton at December 03, 2005 06:10 PM (ewTtb)

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Above photo taken by AP stringer Bilal Hussein embedded with terrorist forces in Iraq. Thanks for the tip from Sir Humphrey who has much, much more.

I've written extensively about Bilal Hussein and the traitors at the Associated Press who employ him. Since I know a number of soldiers from Centcom's Iraq offices read this blog, here's a hint on how to catch some more terrorists: put a bug on Bilal Hussein.

And if he refuses put him in jail and apply some extreme pressure for him to give up his sources in the terrorist organizations he is embedded with.

What is the line between spreading enemy propaganda, having contacts with the enemy, and actually being one of the enemy? In war, no such line exists. This is why, as I have argued extensively in the past, Nazi propagandists such as Joseph Goebbels were as guilty of war crimes as any of the other leaders of the Third Reich.

Propaganda is a weapon in war. Enemies with weapons can be shot. Journalists who do propaganda for the enemy are therefore legitimate targets unless they lay down their weapons.

Earlier posts on Bilal Hussein:
Complete Bilal Hussein Archives

Bilal Hussein dead pool.
Bilal Hussein, still anti-American
Pulitzer Prize given to Terrorists
The Pulitzer and Terrorist Embeds
Editor and Publisher Apologizes for Terrorist Embeds *shock*

Posted by: Rusty at 01:29 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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The Jawa Report once got a mention in Editor and Publisher. The same article mentioned a prominent Leftist blog. The Leftist blog was given a clickable link. This website was simply printed, no link. Subtle? Yes, but bias nonetheless.

Now E&P (notice, I linked the post I'm referencing? See how that works E&P?) turns a photo of Harriet Miers with President Bush into a partisan attack couched in journalistic terms. The article inevitably leads the reader to ask the question, "What did Miers know about bin Laden and when did she know it?"

Classy.

It's not so much that E&P is a liberal rag, it's that its a liberal rag masquerading as an impartial industry journal.

Confederate Yankee fisks the article further.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:33 AM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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It seems that the recent tirades against Paul Krugman and the New York Times have paid off. NRO reports today that the Times has just implemented a new corrections policy for it's editorial pages. Instead of allowing the columnists to run their own corrections and attempt to hide them either online or by couching them in the middle of their next article, the Times has began a new section separate from the editorials called "For The Record." This section contains all corrections to the factual content of the editorials, including Krugman attempting to claim, once again, that Gore actually won the 2000 election. So far, the corrections look to be good for more laughs than the columns themselves.

Op-Ed columns by Paul Krugman (Sept. 5 and 9), Maureen Dowd (Sept. 10) and Frank Rich (Sept. 1 said Michael Brown, the former FEMA director, was a college friend or college roommate of Joe Allbaugh, his predecessor. They went to different colleges and later became friends.

Personally, I can't imagine running a newspaper in which you had to run that many, and that kind of, corrections. If a columnist can't be bothered to get his facts straight, then he should be removed from his position. Of course I understand that firing Krugman and Dowd would send the liberal community into propaganda withdrawals, but that's just the chance we'd have to take.

I also wonder if this recent spate of misinformation has more to do with the Times attempt to sell their online content than was previously mentioned. I'm beginning to think that the Times was getting tired of being so mercilessly fisked by so many bloggers on a daily basis. Not that I know that for a fact, just simple speculation.

Posted by: Drew at 10:08 AM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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So a nation's own flag is considered a racist symbol by some? Disgusting, to say the least--and I'm saying this as an American. Further, it's not like this is coming out of Ireland or some other foreign country with a national identity which is intimately tied in with anti-British feelings. Wakefield prison is in West Yorkshire--that's England for the uninitiated!

The Saint George's Cross is the official flag of England. The Union Jack, so familiar to us all, is actually the flag of the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, and Wales. The Saint George's Cross remains the symbol of English national identity today.

IC Sefton and West Lancs:

Prison officers who wore a St George's Cross tie-pin have been ticked off by the jails watchdog.

The English national flag could be "misinterpreted" as a racist symbol, Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said in a report on Wakefield prison.

The pins had been bought by officers at the top security jail to support a cancer charity.

A section on race relations in Ms Owers' report said: "We were concerned to see a number of staff wearing a flag of St George tie pin.

"While we were told that these had been bought in support of a cancer charity there was clear scope for misinterpretation, and Prison Service Orders made clear that unauthorised badges and pins should not be worn."

As one of her formal recommendations Ms Owers said: "Staff should not wear unauthorised tie pins."

UPDATE: More from CNN via LGF:

Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades.

“A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history,” he told CNN. “They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam.

“Muslim or Arab prisoners could take umbrage if staff wore a red cross badge. It’s also got associations with the far-right. Prison officers should be seen to be neutral.”

Doyle added that it was now time for England to find a new flag and a patron saint who is “not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with.”

Posted by: Rusty at 09:40 AM | Comments (25) | Add Comment
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1 That's the consistent M.O. Find something you don't like and use a benign rule (like "no unauthorized pins") to enforce your opinion. I wonder, had the pin been a happy face, would they enforce the rule?

Posted by: Oyster at October 04, 2005 09:50 AM (fl6E1)

2 Sweden may be the first European country to fall to radical Islam, but Britain will be the second. I doubt there will even be a struggle in Britain, as one appeasement after another will one day give over to capitulation.

Posted by: jesusland joe at October 04, 2005 10:21 AM (rUyw4)

3 So messed up! Call the Religious Policeman and see what he thinks of it.

Posted by: babs at October 04, 2005 10:48 AM (fAmiP)

4 England, Scotland, NORTHERN IRELAND, and Wales. ;-)

Posted by: Dean Esmay at October 04, 2005 10:54 AM (Fs6IG)

5 Don't ever call a guy from Wales English. I made that mistake once and was reprimanded for it, not harshly but if you suspect a person is from "England" ask them if they are from the UK instead.

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at October 04, 2005 10:55 AM (5J2HH)

6 Dean, If I'm not mistaken, the Union Jack was adopted in 1717, before unification with Northern Ireland...

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 04, 2005 11:00 AM (JQjhA)

7 "there was clear scope for misinterpretation" What exactly would that be? I'm English? I'm from England? I love my country, which happens to be England? Or perhaps it's the ever-popular: In case you've forgotten, you're incarcerated in my country, England. I bet the charity is sorry for all the suffering it's caused. But they should still be forced to make a public apology.

Posted by: tee bee at October 04, 2005 11:06 AM (q1JHF)

8 tee bee, Are you serious or did you forget to put the sarcasm tag on?

Posted by: jesusland joe at October 04, 2005 11:26 AM (rUyw4)

9 And how do we purchase one of these racist pins (and support the charity?)

Posted by: Fred Fry at October 04, 2005 12:12 PM (JXdhy)

10 An English flag flying over an English jail is racist - to who? Apparently to non-English prisoners (these are common criminals right?). A possible simple solution - transfer said prisoners to jails in their own "homelands". Universally, jailers have little love for common scum - especially their own. Scots to Scotland, Welsh to Wales etc. I guessing but - "racist?" - maybe some of these prisoners are Carribean, African and Arab/Muslim. Fine! - same solution - serve their criminal sentences back home in a nice well regulated clean prison amongst their "brothers". Anyone want to venture a guess what prison conditions are like in those areas - especially for low-life criminal scum. just an idea.

Posted by: hondo at October 04, 2005 01:19 PM (4Gtyc)

11 What now will they declare old glory a rascis symbol and demand it be replaced with the earth in a rainbow flag like the eco-freaks like to tote around? how long will it be before they demand we replace the BALD EAGLE with a dumb pink chicken or replace the STAR SPANGLED BANNER with that stupid THE AGE OF AQUARUIS?

Posted by: sandpiper at October 04, 2005 02:35 PM (PObDu)

12 JJ, it's no fun if you always telegraph the joke. I'm surprised CAIR hasn't raised a fuss about it. Yet.

Posted by: tee bee at October 04, 2005 02:49 PM (q1JHF)

13 First the English give up their pigs, now they are talking about giving up their flag? Someone in England need to grow a pair. This would never happen in Scotland. Maybe they can borrow some from them.

Posted by: Maureen at October 04, 2005 03:44 PM (ny5O/)

14 I'm still trying to figure out what racist statement exactly this pin is supposed to be misinterpreted as.

Posted by: Oyster at October 04, 2005 04:50 PM (fl6E1)

15 Oyster: I'm guessing they reference the "cross of the crusader" I believe they said King Richard had it on his shield during the crusades? Just remember, if a revolution comes in the U.K it will be fought with clubs, seeing as guns are already restricted and long knives soon will be banned! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm The british nanny-state might also ban wooden impliments by that point though, and rocks, you've got to ban big nasty rocks.

Posted by: dave at October 04, 2005 05:04 PM (CcXvt)

16 case in point: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4284522.stm Cooing at new-born babies banned A West Yorkshire hospital has banned visitors from cooing at new-born babies over fears their human rights are being breached and to reduce infection.

Posted by: dave at October 04, 2005 05:32 PM (CcXvt)

17 Holy cow. Cooing at babies - banned? I read the article and it said that "people sometimes touch or talk about the baby"? I'm confused. Maybe they do things differently there, but here, no one touches the babies but their mothers and nurses. (In some instances, other family members may also in the mother's room) If they're not in the mother's room, they're in a walled off nursery, sometimes with a big window for viewing. What are they doing? Putting them out in the hallways?

Posted by: Oyster at October 04, 2005 06:22 PM (YudAC)

18 Oyster: when I was in the U.K Hospitals, the babies were held in rooms with a viewing window similar to the U.S model. However even with the "touching" factor the headline was "over fears their human rights were being breached" before concerns of Germs I actually checked the URL of the story, to make sure someone hadn't made it look like bbc.uk site and posted it. I thought for sure someone was making fun of the British P.C culture till I saw it actually was the BBC

Posted by: dave at October 04, 2005 06:39 PM (CcXvt)

19 I rest my case!

Posted by: jesusland joe at October 04, 2005 08:28 PM (rUyw4)

20 England is lost. Imams will be calling for Friday prayers from the Tower Bridge in 5 years. Don't forget, it was Blair who appointed the new "advisor", a muslim who denies that Jews were systematically murdered in WWI and his wife who fought the prohibition of muslim clothing in the public schools.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at October 04, 2005 11:53 PM (WOQ34)

21 Sounds like the English are going butts up to the muslim hoard they allowed in their country. Shame. I never would have believed it a few years ago. Shit they are making the same mistakes as we.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 05, 2005 06:06 AM (ywZa8)

22 Well its like what the NAACP are trying to co with the confederate flag its no different just your avrage PC crowd of fools looking for the attention of the liberal left-wing news media

Posted by: sandpiper at October 05, 2005 09:19 AM (XnXsx)

23 can i just say complete crap the english flag is racist i mean stupid can some people get its are herritage and now there trying to wipe that im very proud to be english or british what ever its damn stupid

Posted by: dean at October 07, 2005 10:09 PM (OYSfB)

24 Oh yea! Hondo is a genius.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 08, 2005 12:02 AM (M7kiy)

25 I can't believe it, my co-worker just bought a car for $44238. Isn't that crazy!

Posted by: Betsy Markum at November 16, 2005 09:33 PM (HpDlV)

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UPDATE: Updated and related post Islamic Terrorism in Oklahoma Likely

The father of a University of Oklahoma student, Joel Henry Hinrichs III, that blew himself up on Saturday is denying reports that his son's death was somehow politically motivated.

However, both World Net Daily and the Northeast Intelligence Network are reporting that law enforcement agents found jihadi material in Hinrich's apartment. Included in the material were instructions on how to make bombs used in suicide attacks.

World Net Daily:

Doug Hagmann, a seasoned investigator, told WND he was informed by multiple reliable law-enforcement sources familiar with the investigation into the incident that authorities recovered a "significant amount" of "jihad" materials, as well as Hinrichs' computer.

Hagmann also said those same sources indicated police and federal agents "had pulled additional explosives from [Hinrichs'] house," including triacetone triperoxide, or TATP, "homemade explosive [that is] very potent but relatively easily manufactured."

The confiscated jihad documents "referenced bomb-making manuals and that type of thing," Hagmann said, who added Hinrichs' apartment in Norman, Okla., is "located near the Islamic Society [of Norman]."

However, if the WND/NEIN reports are true about jihadi material, but Hinrichs was not motivated by jihad, then think about what this is saying. If you want to blow yourself up, then who better to consult than the local chapter of the Islamic Society of North America? That's a pretty sad statement.

Hat tip to blog-son Eric from Vince Aut Morire who found it at Clarity and Resolve

UPDATE: Super-sikrit note to Bill Quick and Kevin Aylward. Maybe not jihadi, but if you're going to kill yourself why not consult with the experts.....

Posted by: Rusty at 08:36 AM | Comments (29) | Add Comment
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It's important to note the details of the original minor charge of 'lying on an immigration application' officially levied against Hamid and Umer Hayat. Yes, they only 'lied on an immigration application'....of course, the lie they told was that they were not al Qaeda supporters! Kind of seems like an important detail.

The good news is that the younger of the two, Hamid Hayat, was charged with material support to terrorists this week. The bad news is that the father, Umer Hayat, was given bail.

I dunno, call me paranoid, but there's just something about an Imam with clear al Qaeda sympathies walking the streets that makes me uncomfortable.

California Mafia has more details.

Posted by: Rusty at 02:59 PM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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Has the FDNY hired a Muslim chaplain that comes from an Islamic school with an association with the Al-Ihsan society (AKA the Elehssan Charitable Society) that has been designated by the U.S. Department of the Treasury as a "charitable front" for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), a terrorist organization based in Damascus, Syria?

The Muslim moonbat was one of several imams recommended for the chaplain's job by the Islamic Society for the Fire Department.

Michelle Malkin writes that just when we think things are getting better in New York City, "politically correct insanity rears its monstrous head again." In pointing to Tom Bevan at Real Clear Politics, she notes Tom's flaging of today's Newsday story about the new Islamist-sympathizing, nutball Muslim chaplain hired by none other than the New York Fire Department. We need to stand-up in solidarity with Michelle's suggestion: "Don't let up on the FDNY commissioner, though. Someone made a boneheaded decision to hire a tinfoil Islamist like Habib in the first place. Make sure it doesn't happen again!"

An imam slated to be sworn in Friday as the second Muslim chaplain in Fire Department history said he questioned whether 19 hijackers were responsible for the Sept. 11 terror attacks, and suggested a broader conspiracy may have brought down the Twin Towers and killed more than 2,700 people.
In a telephone interview Thursday, Imam Intikab Habib, 30, a native of Guyana who studied Islam in Saudi Arabia, said he doubted the United States government's official story blaming 19 hijackers associated with al-Quaida and Osama bin Laden.

"I as an individual don't know who did the attacks," said Habib, 30, a soft-spoken man who immigrated to New York in July 2000 after spending six years in Saudi Arabia getting a degree in Islamic theology and law. "There are so many conflicting reports about it. I don't believe it was 19 ... hijackers who did those attacks."

Asked to elaborate on his reasons for doubting that story, he talked about video and news reports widely disseminated in the Muslim community.

"I've heard professionals say that nowhere ever in history did a steel building come down with fire alone," he said. "It takes two or three weeks to demolish a building like that. But it was pulled down in a couple of hours. Was it 19 hijackers who brought it down, or was it a conspiracy?

Posted by: Richard@hyscience at 02:48 PM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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In a time of war, the first and primary duty of the government of the United States is and ought to be TOTAL VICTORY. Any agent of the government who intentionally gives the enemy a tool to fight us with has betrayed the public trust and must be removed. U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ought to be impeached and his order ignored.

Guardian:

Saying the United States ``does not surrender to blackmail,'' a judge ruled Thursday that pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image.

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ordered the release of certain pictures in a 50-page decision that said terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven they ``do not need pretexts for their barbarism.''

Terrorists do not kill because they like to kill. Terrorists kill because they believe they are doing the right thing. Thank you judge, thank you ACLU, you are doing the terrorists job of 'winning the hearts and minds' of the world for them and are helping recruit hundreds and thousands of more terrorists to kill your fellow citizens!

Hat tip to Jay from Stop the ACLU who has more here as does Ace from Ace of Spades HQ here and California Conservative here.

UPDATE: Just in case you were not clear on the difference between the abuses at Abu Ghraib and actual torture: 'Torture' vs. Torture

Posted by: Rusty at 01:34 PM | Comments (57) | Add Comment
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Where is Bill from INDC when he is needed most? I think we've discovered a species of Moonbat previously thought extinct.

More from Zombie. Hat tip to John at Stop the ACLU. Related from Jason Smith.

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The good news just keeps on coming today.

FOXNEWS:

Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along. Then, officers began making arrests.

Obviously Cindy is trying to play for sympathy here and got herself arrested on purpose.

Updated from Yahoo news.

Others who were arrested also cooperated with police. Sgt. Scott Fear, spokesman for the U.S. Park Police, said they would be charged with demonstrating without a permit, which is a misdemeanor. Park Police Sgt. L.J. McNally said Sheehan and the others would be taken to a processing center where they would be fingerprinted and photographed, then given a ticket and released. The process would take several hours, he said.

More Yahoo here

Michelle Malkin has great pics and video too

Posted by: Howie at 01:06 PM | Comments (27) | Add Comment
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While the antiwar movement claims their only concern is for the troops, any one who listens to their rhetoric for more than two minutes understands that they have an underlying agenda. These people hate the U.S. with as much passion as Osoma bin Laden. Below are a number of photos from today's rally in Washington, D.C.

I was all set to do a Blog Sabbath caption contest when I noticed some of the signs at the Mother Saint Cindy Sheehan protest rally which can't be ignored. Notice that Sheehan wants 'the truth'. The truth about what? 9/11? Check out the sign in the background.

Here it is blown up. It says Expose 9/11 Cover-Up.

more...

Posted by: Rusty at 03:53 PM | Comments (127) | Add Comment
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1 and of course there is one of the trouble brothers, Jesse Jackson, right there giving Cindy tips on what to say and do....guess Al couldnt make it....what a bunch of conniving losers there people really are....Cindy has such a smug look on her face, id like to smack it right off, normally i would never hit a woman, but for Cindy, i would make that exception....bunch of X-File watching people are all that Cindy has as followers...wheres the smoking man at Mother Cindy???

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 24, 2005 04:48 PM (FMsU7)

2 I am baffled by this commentary. The hate is really yours, you are only projecting it on the people protesting for a real cause, stopping the destruction, corruption, and greed of the Bush administration and its calamitous policies at home and abroad. You point out signs with things you don't like and then make outlandish claims about what 'they' believe. Is this all you have to say? Take a deep breath, count to ten, and think about the connection between the policies of the administration and their personal economic benefit. Think about how their justifications for their actions change everytime they are exposed as lies, how their responses are knee-jerk accusations and name-calling, and most of all, think about any other time in history when a country has been led into tyranny by its nose with propaganda, lies and manipulation of the people's basest fears-sound familiar? You are living it.

Posted by: rebeccac at September 24, 2005 05:31 PM (CtTb4)

3 Rebeccac, you wrote "think about the connection between the politics of the administration and their personal economic benefits". Please tell me your CONNECTION isn't something like Fahrenheit 911, did you really think you make a difference talking about some connection, what connection? How about you count to ten and think about Clinton and all his lies. When his number one lie caused us to miss an opportunity to kill Osama Bin Laden. Sorry, but YOU ARE LIVING IT!

Posted by: RJC at September 24, 2005 05:45 PM (Ltd4h)

4 It's ok, Rebecca, if I didn't have a date on Saturday night I'd be bitter too.

Posted by: Vinnie at September 24, 2005 05:46 PM (Kr6/f)

5 As usual, I follow one of your links and 2 hours and five more links later, my mouth is hanging open at all the lunacy. Some DUers are really upset about the "protest". Some of them are just beginning to realize their party has been hi-jacked.

Posted by: Oyster at September 24, 2005 06:00 PM (YudAC)

6 Cindy Sheehan, publicity whore.

Posted by: Redhand at September 24, 2005 06:44 PM (TrmBs)

7 She's probably been an attention whore her entire life. I'm starting to just feel sorry for her. Yall need to pop me one in the head if I ever get that bad...please.

Posted by: tyler at September 24, 2005 06:49 PM (t+GZI)

8 Hmmm. I don't see how the so called "conspiracy" is viewed as an underlying agenda. Many supporters of Cindy believe that Bush and his regime should stand trial for their crimes. Guess what. It's no secret. In fact it's very well known. One of the people that was involved in organizing these events in D.C. is Ramsey Clark, Former U.S. Attny. General who is also part of www.impeachbush.org. Keep in mind that there are several groups in D.C. today and they are all intermingling with each other. The "conspiracy" signs may very will belong to people of other groups who support Cindy or just happened to be near by when the cameras were flashing. The fact is you don't know. I also find it interesting that Thanos35's response to Cindy Sheehan is that of a violent nature. Should I be surprised or is this what I should expect from conservatives who say they believe in moral values? Making an exception diminishes any claim you could have to moral superiority. Some might even call it un-American to use violence in opposition of someone else's civil right to free speech. Of course I could just be making an assumption that Thanos35 is a conservative. I do not agree with everything on the liberal side of the fence nor do I agree with everything on the conservative side but I do agree whole-heartedly with the 1st Amendment and that is stronger than any political ideology. I support Cindy Sheehan and her cause. I also support your rights be here and express your opposition to Cindy even if I don't agree with you. Violence would never be a solution I would consider to express opposition but I guess that's just the Christian in me. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 24, 2005 07:09 PM (amTdN)

9 The people Cindy *really* needs to talk to are the men in the white coats.

Posted by: Spamiam at September 24, 2005 07:12 PM (WRWan)

10 Greetings You kevtch about the "expose the 9/11 cover-up" sign, however, are you really sure that there was not a cover-up? Have you read the "official" 9/11 report (I have) and have you read any of the other material that questions the Official report? There are all sorts of HOLES in the OFFICIAL story and a REAL investigation is much needed at this time. Also, if you plan to vote in the 2006 election, get an absentee ballot, that way you can be sure that there is a paper record of your VOTE in the case of a recount. Voting machines are BOGUS! Peace Love and may justice prevail.

Posted by: MuthaFrog at September 24, 2005 07:15 PM (/zIC1)

11 Alright, who opened the Black Gate of Mordor?

Posted by: Vinnie at September 24, 2005 07:26 PM (Kr6/f)

12 You tell'em, Rebecca and Sean! Bush shoud have known better. Only Communists, Muslims and traitors like yourselves have the right to murder American soldiers! How DARE he!

Posted by: DaveP. at September 24, 2005 07:40 PM (6iy97)

13 I was going to respond to DaveP. but the fact that his rant has nothing to do with what Rebecca and I said speaks for itself. That's OK becasue I still support his 1st Amendment right to say it. Gee. I guess I did respond ;-)

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 24, 2005 08:14 PM (amTdN)

14 By any means necessary....

Posted by: olde American at September 24, 2005 08:16 PM (5v/r0)

15 Well, I watched an hour or two of the rally, and then intermittently throughout the day(during commercials), and I have to say this rally is the biggest circle jerk I've ever seen.(let's just reinforce and repeat what each other says, never mind the facts) Not even enough people to drown out the gal with the bongos, although I have to admit that the earlier crowd was bigger. The thing that amazed me was that they claimed 250K people in attendance, and to even the most casual eye there were nowhere NEAR that many; perhaps 25%-40% of their claim. The aerial shots will confirm this, although I have no idea where to find this online; the ones they showed on C-span were enough for me. Sheesh!

Posted by: Lonevoice at September 24, 2005 08:59 PM (vcZAe)

16 Look when only 20% of the people think we can win the war, according to USA Today poll,then we ARE NOT going to win it. Now we can blame Clinton, or the French, or the liberals, or the commies. Or we can blame the neocons. or Bush, or, or, ........... But at this point we should look at it as a gamble that we lost. Now let's cut our loses and get out. Does anyone do math anymore ??? 250 billion spent on 25 million Iraqis equals 10,000 EACH !!! Average Iraqi household is just under 7 persons. That is 70,000 dollars per Iraqui household so far. Please tell me how much longer we should stay and at what point the Iraqis will be our friends instead of Osama's friends. Gas is 3.50gal, Remember the lefties "No blood for oil" well we gave the blood, where is the oil?

Posted by: john Ryan at September 24, 2005 09:09 PM (ads7K)

17 Sean's defense of Sheehan's first ammendment right, I support. BUT, his defense of Sheehan as a reasonable person is ridiculous. He cites Ramsey Clark as an organizer of today's march, as if that somehow legitimizes the event. Clark himself is a far left critic of US foreign policy, and it's not surprising that he'd be on the bandwagon protesting anything the US does overseas. He protested against every one of Clinton's military interventions. As for Sheehan, it's best to let her words speak for herself. “America has been killing people,” she said at a rally supporting a US lawyer CONVICTED of aiding terrorists, “since we first stepped on this continent. And we have been responsible for death and destruction.” Balanced? Sheehan's a knee-jerk reactionary. And a bad choice to be the poster child for those who have reasonable criticisms of the Bush Administrations handling of US foreign policy.

Posted by: Michael at September 24, 2005 09:14 PM (RfAGt)

18 Does anybody else think Cindy looks like Peppermint Patty besides me?

Posted by: Dinah at September 24, 2005 09:27 PM (ywZa8)

19 okay, here we go Sean....first off, yes i am a conservative and i voted for Bush even though i do not agree with EVERYTHING he says and does...second, yes, Cindy needs a good smack in here face so she will wake up to the bullshit she is doing and saying just so she can extend her sickining 15 seconds of INFAMY....no fame in her exploiting her sons death...oh yea, she might have been his mom but she claims she speaks for him...bull...the man was killed by terrorists in Iraq and she glorifies these same terrorists...she claims she knows what he was thinking, oh really Mother Cindy, now you have telapthy???...wow!!!...she speaks to the dead as well!!!...she must be the second coming of Christ....she makes her son out to have been a child since she claims he was forced to join the first time and again to rejoin...uuummmm,he was over 18, that made him an ADULT with the rights to choose....sounds like to me she deserves a smack in her face,,,wouldnt you smack someone if they lied to youre face, called youre mom or dad a whore or a bastard, cause i sure as hell would tear that person, man or woman, a new ass...thats not being violent like the terrorists who murder children and than plant a bomb in that childs body just so they can blow up the childs parents when they come to claim the body....im smacking her because she has insulted not just me but as all...the woman is a communist supporter and also supports other violent groups who want to overthrow our democratically elected goverment and replace it with a dictatorship were you have NO rights at all....and you call me violent???...you are a hypocrite...and who is she shown with in those pictures but one of the biggest liars and hypocrites of all...Jesse Jackson, the man who talked to President Bill Clinton about not cheating on youre spouse, while Jesse Jackson ,a married man himself, had a MISTRESS, who he had a child with!!...now George Bush may not be perfect but he sure as hell hasnt done anything like that while he is in the White House...sure how nice, Bill, getting bj's in the Oval Office , maybe on the very desk that many great Presidents of the USA signed many historic papers and thought many earth affecting thoughts, and all Bill could think of was his johnson, and yet George Bush is the DEvil to the liberal/leftists....how sickining these small minded,ignorant, arrogant and totally demented people are...if i didnt know better i would think that liberal/leftists are like the Uri-Ki from the Lord of The Rings movies...born from the mud, all covered in filth and clamoring for blood cause that is just how they look to me...and you talk about me using violence to prevent someone from using their free speach...these liberals/leftists would love to shout me down or TRY and intimidate me from speaking my mind because they are so afraid of me speaking the truth and they fear the truth so they spew their lies till they actually believe the garbage they scream out...i know this because i have dealt with some of these very people, but see, i mess with their heads when i refuse to back down and i fight back...oh yea, they act like 4 year olds when they dont get their way, have a temper tantrum, but that doesnt bother me one bit, go ahead scream , rant and rave all you want, deny what i say, wont do you any good, as the truth is already out there and all the lies you spew wont change the facts....always the same with you people...liberals/leftists want to believe that them and only them have knowledge and they want to keep it from the rest of the people, and that only they can speak their views and i am supposed to be like some good slave and keep my eyes on the ground and my mouth shut...see but i know something...ALL KNOWLEDGE IS POWER...how you use that power is what makes the difference...seems to me that people like Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Cindy Sheenan and Michael Moore abuse that power and twist their words to try and corrupt and poison the peoples minds...all these people use half truths and right out blatant lies to confuse and blind the citizens of the US and foment hate for President Bush...yea, we as citizens of the US might have the right to speak pretty much whatever we want but you also should not abuse that right.....yes, you have the right to say that you dont like Bush, you think he is doing a terrible job and to have a peacefull protest, but when you step over the line by saying you think that Bush and his administration should be overthrown and you have violent groups in cahoots with you, you are just daring for a kick in youre ass and daym skippy im the guy to do it....and youre gonna get two kicks when youre going to be some decieving, lying, whore mongering, attention seeking person like Cindy Sheenan or Jesse Jackson or Mikey Moore who are hypocrites all

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 24, 2005 09:35 PM (FMsU7)

20 As you scrool thru the posts..the prowar crowd are always the name callers, non readers and those who do not explain their prowar, pro corporate views..it is like a new version of christianity invented by Bushco..chant the mantra..freedom is not free, name call, no reading and no web surfing..esp to sites explaining the playbook your children may be asked to die for..the Project for the New American Century..Skip all else..Most Republicans do not even know what it is and their think tank invented it..and the DEMS all embrace it too..one party one media..all corporate..M

Posted by: Marie at September 24, 2005 09:39 PM (I7jnr)

21 Typical Marie. Don't know how many times I've heard the left say the that right is uninformed, misinformed, or disinformed, and vice versa, but too many. Plenty of people on the right read, and your myopic partisanship is evident when you accuse the 'prowar crowd' of not reading or explaining their views. Maybe that's because you only go to salon.com, commondreams.com, etc. Break out of your bubble, and you'll find all kinds of erudite conservative commentary, which you might not still agree with, but at least you'll be disabused of the simpleton's notion that people who disagree with you must not read.

Posted by: Michael at September 24, 2005 09:55 PM (RfAGt)

22 Marie, it shows that you do not come here often as the libs/leftists show some of the best{?} ability at name calling and flat out non-sensical rants...second, do you have a problem with christianity???...you made a remark about Bushco inventing a new form of christianity so it seems you have some prejudice with that religion...do you support the so called "Religion of Peace" terrorists, or should i call them freedom fighters or perhaps insurgents???and you once again have played the same ploy that liberals/leftists/conspiray theory nuts, like to scream about...and why should i explain my prowar views to someone who isnt going to LISTEN to one word i say since they already have their mind made up and that being that i am evil and a warmongering Christian...gee, i dont feel evil today and i didnt kill anyone by strapping a bomb vest to my body and walking into a crowded store and detonating myself...does that make me a bad person or does that make the terrorists the bad guys with no guilt, no morals, no sence of humanity...nothing but a love for nilhilism...thats the Religion of Peace for ya....hope you like them, because if we all thought like you, we will all be on our knees 7 times a day praying to a rock...lovely...have a nice day

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 24, 2005 09:56 PM (FMsU7)

23 Dittoing Redhand. Cindy Shee-needs a-Han-dout is a money grubbing publicity whore that is pissing on her sons grave.

Posted by: Sgt Beavis at September 24, 2005 10:12 PM (M19Aw)

24 Michael - It doesn't matter what you or I think of Cindy Sheehan and her motives. That wasn't really the point of my post. As for Ramsey Clark, I simply used him as an example becasue it directly related to my point. It seems that the original topic has been forgotten. Does anyone remember the pictures at the top of this page and the connection that Dr. Shackleford tries to draw based on random signs being held by random people? The Clark reference was simply to illustrate the fact that Cindy Sheehan was not the only person/group involved in the protests. I used Clark's sight because it directly related to the signs in the pictures and the general concensus of his site. As for defending Cindy Sheehans 1st Amendment rights...well, I see how I could have worded that better. Let me be more clear. I do not believe it's possible to defend an individuals 1st Amendment rights becasue it isn't a right that belongs to any individuals. It is a right that belongs to all people equally as individuals. That is why I also said that I support your rights to express your opposing view. I also stated that the 1st Amendment is greater than any political ideology. I hope I was able to clear up some things. God Bless

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 24, 2005 11:07 PM (/Qmc1)

25 "What connection?" you ask. You must follow Bush's lead of not reading. Really, you can find the connections everywhere. READ. First, remember 9/11? Who were they? Mostly Saudi nationals. The Bush family has long had business dealings wih the royal family and the Bin Ladens. The Bin Ladens (not just Osama) have close ties to terrorists. But the administration let 'em fly on out of here just after the WTC fell. That's not just Michael Moore talking - that's a fact: READ the actual flight list on http://www.houseofbush.com/files.php Bush continues to hug, kiss and hold hands with the Saudis and Bin Ladens. How about all the private companies, espeically Halliburton? (Cheney, the CEO until he ran as VP, doesn't profit for now, but the no-bid contract awarded them in Iraq is a typical example of the Bush admin's cronyism and will surely be rewarded when Cheney is no longer VP.) Halliburton has been stealing our tax dollars to line their already fat pockets. A recent audit by the Defense Contract Audit Agency said Halliburton could not document 42 percent of a $4 billion invoice submitted to the Pentagon. Much of the $1.8 billion that lacked documentation was for subcontractors who helped feed U.S. troops -- the area in which Blackwater was working. While the Bush admin may be scum bags, they're not entirely stupid - there is no direct stream of cash flowing into the Whitehouse from Iraq. It's the political backscratching. And it continues in a cycle of corporations feeding money into mostly Republican's campaigns, funding their golf trips and crap. In turn, Republicans put forward the bills and approve the contracts that help those corporations (rather than the majority of AMERICAN CITIZENS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SERVE) and when those politicians retire, they are welcomed with open arms by the same corporations. Certainly, this happens with Democrats too - when they have power that somebody would like to buy, but the majority of this crap occurs with Republicans. Need some PROOF? - Arms Industry PAC's Contributions go to Bush over Kerry, receiving $766,355 and $399,000 respectively. - Contracts to the PentagonÂ’s top ten contractors jumped from $46 billion in 2001 to $80 billion in 2003, an increase of nearly 75% -When the Bush administration first took office, it appointed 32 executives, paid consultants, or major shareholders of weapons contractors to top policymaking positions in the Pentagon, the National Security Council, the Department of Energy (involved in nuclear weapons development), and the State Department. Since that time, the "revolving door" has continued to spin, including a high profile scandal in which Air Force procurement official Darleen Druyun pled guilty to criminal charges for negotiating for a position at Boeing while simultaneously negotiating with the company on the terms of a controversial scheme to lease 100 more Boeing 767 airliners for modification and use as aerial refueling tankers. Another controversial move involved Pentagon acquisition chief Edward "Pete" AldridgeÂ’s decision to move straight from Donald RumsfeldÂ’s Pentagon to a position on the board of Lockheed Martin. -Lockheed Martin received an astounding $21.9 billion in Pentagon contracts in 2003, a $4.9 billion increase from 2002, and $7.2 billion increase from 2001. To put this in perspective, Lockheed's increase in contracts for 2003 was more than Halliburton's total Pentagon contracts for the year. Lockheed reported a 41% rise in profits as arms spending continues to rise around the world. So, unless you are one of these guys getting rich off the war or a politician setting yourself up for a lifetime of high salaries and perks at the expense of the vast majority of Americans, I can't find a reason why you would stand up for the Neo-Con Death Cult. And before you make your attempt at being a jerk like Rush or O'Reiley with a personal attack, I have a husband and a family and I am doing this on a Saturday night because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS BEING USED TO FIGHT THIS ILLEGAL WAR. THEY SHOULDN'T BE DYING FOR THIS SHAM. That's what a TRUE PATRIOT does.

Posted by: The Thinking 48% at September 24, 2005 11:40 PM (eg86J)

26 ummmmm. ME ME ME what about me I know Math never was considered fun or interesting but really I think we should we have spent 70,000 per Iraqi family so far and they still keep trying to kill us. I don't think we should spend anymore there unless they begin to act nicer to us.

Posted by: john Ryan at September 25, 2005 12:38 AM (ads7K)

27 "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." -- John Quincy Adams (1767-184 , 6th US President The facts are there for the reading. It is a matter of being careful where you get your facts. You will not get facts from Salon.com, Michael Moore, mainstream media, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, you will get pieces of facts, but mostly opinion. Be skeptical. As for Cindy Sheehan. I have read through the Code Pink website (one of Cindy's main support groups) and one thing that struck me is that they say they support the troops, yet the top banner slogan they suggest is "Mothers don't let your babies grow up to be killers." That doesn't sound very supportive of the troops. The protesting they do outside Walter Reed Army Hospital is not supportive either. It is only demoralizing and demeaning for the soldiers recovering there. I will also admit that I do not like the liberal point of view and often feel that I am getting whiplash from the the changes they make in their arguments. I do not claim that Bush is perfect, no one is, but I certainly trust him more than what I've seen, read, and researched about the liberals.

Posted by: Anna at September 25, 2005 12:53 AM (nVvoC)

28 THANOS35 - Clinton? Moore? Kerry? Tolken characters? Where did that come from? Wow. That had nothing to do with my post but...whatever floats your boat. I don't believe that Cindy Sheehan is trying to overthrow the Government or install a dictatorship. I think she is a mother, who knew her son, and is demanding answers as to why he died. You or I cannot know her true motives unless we are mind readers or something. But that wasn't the point of my post in the first place. I don't agree with your reasoning but I understand your reason for wanting to commit an act of violence against her. But trying to justify it by saying it isn't as bad as bomb-strapped children is ridiculous. Violence against another human being is still wrong. I don't believe that you want to "smack" her to teach her anything. I believe your motive is simply anger and vengeance. If I am wrong then I apologize. As a Christian I believe that vegeance only belongs to God because vengeance blackens the heart. I don't feel any primal need to exact revenge on anyone, especially for their words. Sure, I may feel some anger and even dwell on it for a short time, that's my own issue, but I know that Gods love and wisdom is far stronger than any words spoken against me or my loved ones. So the asnwer to your question is, No. I would not "tear that person...a new ass." As for all the other stuff (that had nothing to do with my post) infidelity, corruption, name-calling, self-righteousness, etc has been going on since the dawn of time in every organization, religion, government, whatever. It doesn't matter what group of people is doing it and for what reason. It's still wrong! In your response addressed to me you made several liberal/leftist references as if to insinuate that I would act in unseemly manners against you. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding that. The fact is I agree with you in some respects. There are people on the left (as well as the right) who would love to force others to shut up. I assure you I am not one of those people. And I don't believe those ideologies represent the vast majority of liberals. I don't believe they represent the vast majority of conservatives either. I have several friends who are very conservative. Guess what. Many of them do not support Bush. It may interest you to know that I am not technically a liberal. The balance of my views puts my in the "moderate" catagory. Some of my views lean left and some lean right. But because I happen to express my views openly, that somehow makes me a liberal. Or as one person, who was trying to insult me, put it, a NeoLib. Apparently he didn't understand what he was saying but I give him credit for trying. Plus it made a great screen print on several of my political t-shirts and I wear the label proudly. So now that we have both gone off the original point I will say this: The 1st Amendment protects all free speech and no one has the right to commit an act of violence against another simply because one doesn't agree with the other. That was my original point (after the point about the pictures, of course) One last thing. If Bill Clinton should have been impeached for anything it should have been for ruining a perfectly good cigar. ;-) Cheers and God Bless

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 25, 2005 12:53 AM (/Qmc1)

29 What do I care that my president lied to the American people? It had to be done in order to go in and get control of the oil fields that were under control of a cruel ruthless dictator. The world is running out of oil and fast so yer goddamn right I want my president to do everything in his power to save my way of life. Without that oil all you would be in a world of hurt! Prices for just about everything would skyrocket. That oil was going to end up being sold to China and Russia, two communist countries with nukes! So it was a good thing we went in there when we did. (Now those bastards will have to fight us for the oil when they start to run out.) The President needed to make a case for war by exaggerating the truth, he couldn't have gained the support without it. I know President Bush was right even if the way he went about it was deceitful. Deceitful but it was justified! When I elect my President, I give him the power to do what he sees is right. That's why I always vote Republican and always will. You see, Liberal commies have controlled everything from the airwaves to literature, pop culture to you name it. This way of thinking has been destroying America. There is 48% of this country still under control and influence of this way of thinking, and they are all wrong! That's why he needed to talk about WMDs and 9-11, in order to get these idiot libs on the right side for once in their goddamn life. We have been in Iraq for over 2 years now and I say we should never leave, ever! Listen, we are winning. We have only lost 1900 soldiers. That's a pretty low number to lose in a war. We have probably killed 100 times that. We are winning! You say they died for oil? I say they died protecting me and my way of life. They died so that I can have affordable clothes, cars, air-conditioning, heating in the winter, food, the power for my house and the stove and the refrigerator, and the computer I'm using right now to post on here! And most importantly, they died so that we can continue to protect me. Yes, so we can produce the bombs and guns and nukes and keep them ready to defend my home! If you give me a choice between sending the army over to spill lots of blood, kill lots of children, and torture the hell out of some prisoners in order to grab some of the cheapest oil in the world or to do nothing as I lose my ability to afford a cheap tank of gas much less a $4 Grande Mocha, I say, let's go to war! Who cares about those damn Iraqis when my lifestyle is on the line. I never knew or cared about a Iraqi kid and I never will.

Posted by: Hell is for Heros at September 25, 2005 06:18 AM (BmtfW)

30 "Contracts to the Pentagons top 10 contracters jumped from $46 billion in 1991 to $86 billion in 1993 an increase of nearly 75%." The "Thinking" 48% Did anything happen in 1991 that might have caused the Pentagon to increase spending? PS: If you are only thinking with 48% of your brain does that make you a half-wit? Just asking.

Posted by: Mr. Burns at September 25, 2005 07:34 AM (B3rIg)

31 Overall military spending 1990: $409.7 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1991: $358.1 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1993: $358.6 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1998: $296.7 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1999: $298.4 billion (in 2002 dollars) 2005: $420.7 billion (in actual 2005 dollars) Where is this money coming from? Certainly not our taxes. We are borrowing this money. Money that goes toward putting people in graves. Money that goes towards stealing natural resources. Money that goes towards destroying this planet. Money that we'll never pay back. Who is anti-american? Who are the traitors? Wake up people!!!!

Posted by: 48% Right at September 25, 2005 07:52 AM (BmtfW)

32 The facts are so contrary to what's been drummed into our heads for our whole lives it's not surprising that few will accept it: The U.S. founded its country through the mass slaughtering and biological warfare against indiginous people, those red-skinned indians, the native americans. The government provided bounties for indian scalps as recently as the late 1800's. The freedom-loving, liberating U.S. has repressed the civil and humanitarian rights of the poor, women, and black people at home throughout its history. Each of these groups have staged mass civil disobediance to earn their rights, as recently as the 1960's. Many groups still don't have reasonable freedoms states have determined are just (e.g. med pot, gay marriage). U.S. foreign policy has been one of dominance and self-interest since the government first used nuclear bombs in the 1940's (killing hundreds of thousands of civilians). Just because hitler's policies were evil, DOES NOT mean the U.S. was good. The U.S. now (and has for some time) spends more on its military than all other countries combined. It has the second largest nuclear stockpile, which is many times greater than other nuclear countries. It is the first country to militarize space. Ask yourself why those planes crashed into U.S. towers of economic might and government symbols on 9/11 rather than a place like Sweden, Switzerland, or Norway. It is not because muslims hate westerners. It is because the American government has been financing massacres on middle-eastern soil and funding the dictators who repress and murder the population for many decades. Ask yourself why the only countries suffering from terrorist attacks have Armies occupying foreign lands. Ask yourself why your country was the first one to pursue military aggression despite widespread international opposition and against the International Law of the U.N. Ask yourself why your country has a pathetic voter turnout, an unspoken boycott where less than 60% of registered voters turn out during any given election (that means less than 50% of eligible voters). Ask yourself why everybody widely admits that national politics are a sham. Ask yourself why the Vice President Dick Cheney's former company got the lucrative contracts for the reconstruction in Iraq, and New Orleans.

Posted by: Anti-American at September 25, 2005 08:26 AM (GyiKu)

33 "Anti-American". The only honest thing in your post is the name you have chosen for yourself.

Posted by: Mr. Burns at September 25, 2005 09:02 AM (B3rIg)

34 Question for all of you war lovers. So there you are in Germany. It's February 28, 1933 and the Reichstag (federal building) has burnt down to the ground. Your Federal Chancellor, Adolf Hitler, of the Nazi party (that you voted for) blames it on the Communists and has all communist party leaders arrested. He uses this "opportunity" to suspend human rights and holds elections on March 21. So who do you vote for? There is no internet and no alternative news source to help you out. Do you go for the party you voted for because blind allegiance is the only thing you know, or do you not turn away from the horrible truth stand up for justice by voting against the Nazis? Blind patriotism and party allegiance vs. the truth. That's your choice. If you refuse to see the parallels between the Reichstag and 9-11, and you continue to blindly support a warmonger President and a war that has killed over 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians, then you are no better than those who voted for the Nazi party.

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 09:14 AM (BmtfW)

35 I see the hen is wearing her T-Shirt with her own footprint on it the 70s chicken footprint and who wants to lsten to her mindless clucking

Posted by: sandpiper at September 25, 2005 09:21 AM (u2whF)

36 Sean, we know that Sheehan's group wasn't the only one there. The point you missed was that the media portrayed it as solely an "anit-war" protest. They were very careful to leave out much commentary to the contrary. Read some of the newspapers and look at their carefully cropped photos to see that. The pictures we see on the net are what told the truth. The point is that Sheehan's group, whatever their cause may be, does not seem to be troubled by the fact that they share a stage with anyone as long as it gives the appearance of their numbers being greater than they are.

Posted by: Oyster at September 25, 2005 09:28 AM (YudAC)

37 I donÂ’t know, IÂ’m thinking a more accurate analogy would involve the Sudetenland, Munich or the Reinland. Sad to say to the left, the job is far from finished. Take Iran for instance. Is letting Iran become a nuclear power really part of the agenda of the left? A little backbone now may save millions of lives later. Try to show some courage instead of giving in to every tyrant who joins you is anti Bush rant Peace be with you, but never at the cost of freedom.

Posted by: Brad at September 25, 2005 09:40 AM (6mUkl)

38 Damn, Rita knocked my power off for 24 hours, and I have to come back here to a sewage of DU'ers and Indymedia. DSM looks like a mental giant compared to some of the dumn butts commenting on this thread. Go back to the swamps, trolls!

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 09:52 AM (rUyw4)

39 Peace be unto you, WTF are you talking about? You are either one of those jihadi-wanna-bes or just a plain fool. Which is it?

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 09:57 AM (rUyw4)

40 Sean, What denomination of Christian are you? That would help many of us understand where you are coming from. I have an idea, but will wait for a response.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 10:00 AM (rUyw4)

41 Anti-American -- So you've read Howard Zinn and listen to Democracy Now! Good for you! I'll only point out one contradiction in your post because I've seen it elsewhere on the left. As you point out, equal rights have been extended throughout American history. That's a good thing. Now why don't YOU ASK YOURSELF what sort of rights women, gays, Jews, Christians, etc. have in the Middle East in the 21st century? Any honest answer to this question will force reasonable lefties to make a value judgment, and I'm guessing that all of them would rather be living in the good ole' US of A. Peace be with you -- You're serious?! Any comparison of Bush to Hitler is ridiculous. Your very existence and freedom is enough to prove that. Good grief. Do I really have to point this out? Hell is for Heros -- I want you on my side if the proverbial shit ever hits the fan, but don't you think that there are also other ways to spend billions of dollars to protect the American way of life? We need oil and political stability in the Middle East in the short-term, but the US Department of Energy predicts that demand for oil will significantly outpace supply by 2050. We need other cheap energy sources. Why not spend money researching alternative energy sources, better conservation methods, etc? What makes this country great is its pragmatism and innovation?

Posted by: Michael at September 25, 2005 10:21 AM (RfAGt)

42 your an idiot

Posted by: BUSH at September 25, 2005 10:21 AM (rSmAM)

43 It's not surprising to see these types of comments on a right wing rag, but still frustrating all the same. No cover up? No conspiracy? It's no secret that Bush is in bed with Saudi Arabia. He just lifted sanctions against them... THIS WEEK. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/21/AR2005092102260.html There's a link for you to enjoy. Bushco is laughing all the way to the bank while you, me, and every other honest American struggles to pay for gas and deal with hurricane relief. Halliburton is in utter glee over the hurricane destruction they will be "cleaning up," and if you don't see these things you are utterly blind. I really do understand, however, people who disagree with Cindy. This is a free country. What I do not understand is your blank, cold, hatred for her. She is an AMERICAN engaged in peaceful protest on American soil, and you people hate her guts with every fiber of your being. Who, exactly, would Jesus hate? Who would Jesus want you to punch in the face? Sincerely, Liberty

Posted by: Liberty at September 25, 2005 10:22 AM (sd1Mp)

44 Brad, it looks like you bought into all the right wing propaganda. Why do you think Iran wants nukes? They have invading forces on both sides of them! And why would they have ever pursued nuclear weapons in the first place? Do you know the history of what the U.S. has done to them? Ever heard of the Shah of Iran? American puppet dictators have been killing off the people of Iran for years before americans even knew what Iran was. So what you are saying is that we are right to go into Iraq, kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and leave the country in ruins (it will never recover by the way) to show backbone against Iran who don't even have nukes yet? Why didn't we negotiate with any of these countries like we did with North Korea? Do you believe that North Korea will ever really give up ALL their nukes now that they have them? Have their nukes taken away any of your freedom lately? You are just like the scared people of Nazi Germany, blindly following their dictator into war because he says there is NO OTHER WAY. There is always another way, fool.

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 10:33 AM (BmtfW)

45 Love Liberty, "what I don't understand is your blank, cold, hatred for her". Just so you will know, it's the same feeling you have for Bush. Now you understand, don't you.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 10:39 AM (rUyw4)

46 Peace be unto you, You are either a jihadi wanna-be or an ally. It is a great stratagy to divide the US on this war against radical Islam. You come here(the West) and use the freedoms we provide to all people with the intent to destroy us. The useful idiots on the Left and their allies in the MSM are a great gift to you, I know, but remember that many of us here in the US see through all this propaganda. I realize that the war in Iraq, no matter how it turns, will only be the first battle between Civiliztion and those who want to return to the Dark Ages. I honestly think that most people in the World will finally see what radical Islam will mean for the World, just like the Prime Minister of Thailand. As for the useful idiots on the Left, you need to go read about the war going on in the south of Thailand, and if that's what you want in the West, then continue on the path you've chosen.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 10:57 AM (rUyw4)

47 This would be much more emotionally satisfying if it were an actual brawl.

Posted by: Michael at September 25, 2005 11:14 AM (RfAGt)

48 I believe the Sheehan bitch is actually glad her son died in Iraq. Worth it to her. Now that her husband has left her dumb traitorous ass I wonder who she is screwing now. The picture will give you a hint. I mean, who else would sink that low?

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2005 11:34 AM (jwCcw)

49 jesusland joe has hit the nail right on the head....peace be with you knows nothing about the so called Religion of Peace and knows absolutely nothing about how to wage war....first off peace, Islam is at this moment waging more than a dozen agrresive wars of expansion all over the world....and the US is where???....Iraq and Afghanistan...thats only TWO...the US went in to do what???...lemme see, we FREED 25 MILLION OPPRRESED people in Afghanistan from the ISLAMIC Taliban...in Iraq we have deposed a man who brutally murdered and tortured millions of his own people and in the process gave the Iraqi people the first chance in decades to decide their own fate ...oops almost forgot that Afghanistan also elected its own goverment as well....gee, has Iran done anything like that???...nope, all i see are the Islamic Mullahs in control oppress the Iranian people even more just so they{the Mullahs}can try to keep the reins of power and oppresion in their hands...but of course people like peace and all the other handwringers, hippies, leftists and liberals NEVER EVER say anything about that...NOT A PEEP...and they never say anything about how ISLAM MURDERS people by the dozens every single day...honor killings,palistian christians burned out of thier homes,Isralies rocket attacked as soon as they give up the Gaza strip to the Pali Islamic terrorist groups...it goes on and on....Thailand is finally going to put a stop to these Islamic idiots who are trying to destroy an ancient culture just so they can forcefully impose a bloody murderous cult that worships a moon god represented by a friggin ROCK in Mecca...even the break away part of Somalia, Somaliand has decided to kick out any ISLAMIC cleric who does not have legitimate business in that country and i cheer that..its about time the world woke up to what Islam is really about...blood, misery, death, rape,abuse of women,abuse of children, and the worship of both a phedophile prophet and his pagan, evil god that turns its followers into robotic murderes

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 25, 2005 11:35 AM (FMsU7)

50 Peace be with you. What a fucking idiot you are.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2005 11:37 AM (jwCcw)

51 They anti war sillies here are right you can't win when half of your population are traitors. The idea that I love the war offends me. I hate it. What I hate even more is beaheadings living under a global calliphate. Women treated as property. Have ya'll looked at what these people really fight for it ain't yankee doodle dandy.

Posted by: Howie at September 25, 2005 11:40 AM (D3+20)

52 jesusland joe and everyone else. All I'm saying is give peace and negotiation a chance. Did we do that in Iraq? No we didn't. The most powerful country on the planet with the smartest most gifted people in the world could only resort to war. Look at the lives we have taken, look at the families we have killed, look at the people we have tortured. The majority of those people have nothing to do with radical Islam and you know it. Look at what you all are saying. If you march for peace you are a traitor, if you align yourself with killing then you are righteous. How blind are you! jesusland joe, I am sure you are not a Christian, how could you be when you support the killing of any human being for any reason. I am a Christian and I know the Bible very well. Can you quote me any passage from the New Testament that would lead you to believe that killing for any reason is justified? Do you know why God's commandment "Thou shall not kill" applies to us in this war? In all wars there are casualties. That means innocent human lives being snuffed out. These are souls that were given life by God in order to have a chance to find God. This is why we are ALL given life, to find God so we may live in eternity with the Creator. When you go to war, more innocent humans are killed than actual enemies soldiers/combatants, agreed? Millions were killed in Vietnam and now tens of thousands, so far, have been killed in Iraq. These innocents are souls who will never have a chance to find God. Doesn't that bother you? Or do you think that God values your soul over the soul of an Iraqi child? If you do, then you are lost my friend. I can't believe what this country has come to. People here are hating a woman who is protesting a war and praying for peace. Peace, for God sake! Not death, not war, not murder, not evil. If you are a Christian, think about why you are a Christian, what does a Christian stand for? What does it mean to be a follower of Christ? Are you so ready to hate someone who calls out for peace? Jesus, the prince of peace, came to do 2 things for us. The first was to die on the cross for our sins so that we too may live on after we die. The second was to show us how we must act as Christians in order to have our sins forgiven so we man join Jesus after death. And if you are not a Christian, why do put so little value on life and the truth? So you can get richer? So you can "win"? So you can hate? It's sad. Let me leave you with a very nice passage. They are the words of God and are meant to teach us something. Please read your Bible everyday and worship only God and not a President who took us to war for oil. "Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV) Also please read: JOHN 8

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 12:30 PM (BmtfW)

53 t

Posted by: Oyster at September 25, 2005 01:01 PM (YudAC)

54 WTF? the first letter of the _lph_bet is question_ble content?

Posted by: HoldYerNose at September 25, 2005 01:03 PM (YudAC)

55 I find it ámusing when "Christiáns" refer to the New Testement, only for reference. I think it wás á mán cálled Jesus who sáid he didn't come to do áwáy with the láw, but to forfill it. You'd álmost thing thát God himself hád never sent his own ármies ágáinst his enemies, or thát God hád not decided to wipe out the world/cities/people whom were ágáinst him. Às you bring the subject up, áre you then with Cindy with her hátred for Isráel, I believe God cálled them his chosen, or do you just insert religion when it's áppropriáte to your own árgument?

Posted by: dave at September 25, 2005 02:43 PM (CcXvt)

56 Peace be unto you: Would you please answer my question? What demonination of Christian are you, if you truly are a Christian? The commandment you speak of is translated from the Greek, Thou shalt not commit murder. Big difference from what you said. Again, I doubt whether you are a Christian. You support radical Islamism, which I find difficult to do. No matter, you allege that I supported the invasion of Iraq, which I did not. I was against it, but now that we are there, and every jihadist from around the World is descending on Iraq to kill Americans, can you not see that a surrender to radical Islam in Iraq will unleash these people on the World. Look what is going on in Thailand right now. Do you honestly think these people will ever stop? There goal is to reinstate the Caliphate. Do you have any idea what this will mean? Do you have a clue? Friend, these people want to return us to the Dark Ages. Read something that they say besides what Al-Jezeera or CNN say. Look at the Sudan and Thailand if you want to see where radical Islam wants us to go. Ask the Muslims if the Koran gives you any rights in a Muslim land. Look at Indonesia, and tell me if this is what you want. I am telling you that I would fight to the death to stop radical Islam. I have three children, one of who is in the military, and I do not want them to live in the Dark Ages under the power of the Caliphate. And I don't want that for you either.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 02:45 PM (rUyw4)

57 Is Jesse doin Cindy?

Posted by: Eye Want at September 25, 2005 05:15 PM (H1rTt)

58 I'm back, and I'm ready to fisk. I'll start with the last one first. Quothe "peace be with you" "jesusland joe and everyone else. All I'm saying is give peace and negotiation a chance." We tried that several times in several instances, but apparently for gutless, simpering cowards, we should wait until there is no place left to bury the corpses before we act like men and do something. "Did we do that in Iraq? No we didn't." Yes we did you liar. We tried for over a decade to get Saddam to straighten up, but it was LIBERALS who constantly undermined our efforts to force him to the bargaining table. "The most powerful country on the planet with the smartest most gifted people in the world could only resort to war." No, the most murderous, tyrannical dictator with the most repressed people in the Middle East could only resort to war. Get your facts straight moron. I'm sorry, what am I saying? Facts are poison to libtards. "Look at the lives we have taken, look at the families we have killed, look at the people we have tortured." Yeah, it would be so much better if they were Americans who were dead and tortured, wouldn't it? And you wonder why we hate liberals so much. "The majority of those people have nothing to do with radical Islam and you know it." The Iraq war wasn't about radical islam you lying libtard, it was about SADDAM HUSSEIN'S WEAPONS PROGRAMS, idiot. Afghanistan was about radical islam, and that country is coming along nicely into the 21st century, though if you traitors to humanity had your way, the taliban would still be executing girls for going outside their homes without a male escort. "Look at what you all are saying. If you march for peace you are a traitor, if you align yourself with killing then you are righteous." No, dumbass, if you support an enemy dictator, you are a traitor. People like you marched for peace with Hitler. "How blind are you!" How stupid are you? "jesusland joe, I am sure you are not a Christian, how could you be when you support the killing of any human being for any reason." He doesn't claim to be a Christian, he only lives in jesusland, meaning the Bible Belt. It's called wordplay, you see... oh never mind. Look, something shiny! ----> * "I am a Christian and I know the Bible very well." Yet you still hate your country. Who says all Christians are Republicans? Some are traitors. "Can you quote me any passage from the New Testament that would lead you to believe that killing for any reason is justified?" Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. This means that whatever is in the OT still goes, including all the smiting and such. Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. OH SNAP! JC wasn't all warm-N-fuzzy after all was he? It seems he had a more serious side. "Do you know why God's commandment "Thou shall not kill" applies to us in this war?" Actually in the original Hebrew, it's not "kill", but "murder", meaning something entirely different. Apparently you DON'T know the Bible too well, do you? "In all wars there are casualties." BEHOLD! This is the only honest, factual statement in this whole post. "That means innocent human lives being snuffed out." Unfortunately, this is often true, but it mainly means killing people who want to kill you, including inhuman monsters like Hitler and Saddam, but then, you see to like them well enough, so maybe the just needed a hug. The fact is that there are far fewer innocent casualties in this war than in any war of the last century, and the truth is that most civilian casualties are caused by your friends, the terrorists. "These are souls that were given life by God in order to have a chance to find God." Nah, gotta call BS on you there. We are just biological reproduction machines, and our purpose it to reproduce and kill one another. It's fun being an atheist, because I don't have to twist logic to make a point. "This is why we are ALL given life, to find God so we may live in eternity with the Creator." And I though it was just because my mom and dad had the hots for one another. Go figure! "When you go to war, more innocent humans are killed than actual enemies soldiers/combatants, agreed?" No, not agree, moron. I have been to war, and let me tell you, people who die in combat far outnumber those who die because of combat. But then, that's an easily verifiable fact, which means that you want nothing to do with it. "Millions were killed in Vietnam" Approximately one million Vietnamese died during the American war there. Many were civilians, but most were combatants, and all were enemies. That's just how war works. "...and now tens of thousands, so far, have been killed in Iraq." What is your source for that estimate? Lancet and other various propaganda sources have tried to place it anywhere from one hundred thousand to almost a million. I know it's been rough on those who try to fight, and civilians have died, but to just use a number like "tens of thousands" is dishonest, but then, we expect no less from leftards. "These innocents are souls who will never have a chance to find God." So sweet, so happy, so clueless. Any one of them would gladly slit your throat, and I would gladly hand them the knife. "Doesn't that bother you?" Nope, it's kinda pointless to be bothered by something that you have no control over, but that could have been avoided easily if the people it's happening to had done something to prevent it. "Or do you think that God values your soul over the soul of an Iraqi child?" Or maybe we value our children over theirs, and would rather not see them die in a nuclear, chemical, or biological attack. "If you do, then you are lost my friend." Or maybe if you think that moral eqivalency is okay, you're an idiot moonbat leftard who doesn't mind that fact that murderous dictators and religious fanatics want to kill us, and don't care how many innocents die. "I can't believe what this country has come to." Me neither, people like you used to be shot, and now we're letting you run around free. That's just beyond the pale for me. "People here are hating a woman who is protesting a war and praying for peace." You mean propaganda whoring. I wonder when her book's coming out? "Peace, for God sake!" "Those who cry "Appease! Appease!", are hanged by those they tried to please." And fittingly so. "Not death, not war, not murder, not evil." Tell that to your buddies the mullahs, Kim Il, and Osama. "If you are a Christian, think about why you are a Christian, what does a Christian stand for?" Well I know that Baptists won't have sex standing up because they're afraid it might lead to dancing, but other than that, the other denominations are all over the place. You sound like a UCC sheep to me. "What does it mean to be a follower of Christ?" I liked the parts about the sword, and the Laws. "Are you so ready to hate someone who calls out for peace?" I'm ready to hate traitors and those who would sell us into slavery for the sake of peace. They're called cowards. "Jesus, the prince of peace, came to do 2 things for us." Chase out the moneylenders and bring a sword? "The first was to die on the cross for our sins so that we too may live on after we die." That's church doctrine, but I still like the sword part. "The second was to show us how we must act as Christians in order to have our sins forgiven so we man join Jesus after death." He whipped the moneylenders and said "render unto Caesar..." etc. "And if you are not a Christian, why do put so little value on life and the truth?" I put more value on my life than almost anyone elses, but I'm willing to risk it for others. What have you done for anyone else besides preach peace, love, and free drugs? "So you can get richer? So you can "win"?" Which are better than getting poorer and losing, which is what you and your libtard friends want to see happen to Americans. Fuck you. "So you can hate?" I hate you. "It's sad." Actually it makes me happy, because the ability to hate stupidity, cowardice, and evil shows that I'm a sane, healthy citizen, loyal to my country and humanity, and the ideals upon which Western civilization is founded, but you can't understand that, can you? "Let me leave you with a very nice passage. They are the words of God and are meant to teach us something. Please read your Bible everyday and worship only God and not a President who took us to war for oil." So, what's your favorite flavor of Kool-Aid? "Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV) You have the uncanny ability to choose a passage that contributes exactly NOTHING to the topic. Also please read: JOHN 8 Yeah that'd be great if we were talking about stoning a whore, but war is another matter and isn't about judging someone's righteousness, but about defending against a threat. Besides, if Jesus came to fulfill the law, that means that all the smiting of Israel's enemies in the OT was kosher, so your argument is moot. If you want wisdom, read Machiavelli's "The Prince", but then, wisdom is the last things loony moonbats want, so I know you won't.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 25, 2005 05:50 PM (0yYS2)

59 Well, Eye Want, I know he would if he had the chance. Jesse Jackson claims to be a pastor, but he is not. I'm not judging him, but the Bible clearly says that you can see a man by looking at the fruit he bears. Jesse Jackson is nothing but a race hustler and a fraud, and gets money to support his lavish lifestyle through intimidation. He uses threats of boycotts, etc. to get companies to give money to his many organizations. I don't understand why people are scared of this man.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 05:54 PM (rUyw4)

60 PBWY, What part of the Bible tells you to leave a helpless population to the mercy of the scum of the Middle East? We now have something in Iraq that most liberals do not understand, ..A responsibility. There is no morning after pill or abortion clinic to visit to make this war go away. We have a country of 50 million people at the mercy of every murdering Jihadist in the Middle East. Your going to have to suck it up and do something that the teachers at “Feel Good Middle School” told you didn’t matter.... You’re going to have to win. Stop thinking about your self and start thinking about our responsibility. How can we help the people of Iraq keep a fragile democracy alive. How can we defeat a ruthless enemy who would kill 32 innocent children with a bomb so they can also kill Iraqi men applying for jobs? Like it or not, we are in Iraq. You cant just put your head under the pillow and make it go away. Why don’t you join the team and help us win this war? Certainly our vision for Iraq is preferable to what you would leave these people with by running away.

Posted by: Brad at September 25, 2005 08:19 PM (6mUkl)

61 Jesusland Joe, Denomination? I guess I never thought about joining a denomination. I've been to many churches, Christian and non-Christian and I have determined that I don't necessarily fit into any set of church doctrine or dogma. The reason for this is simple. As I grow older my understaninding of God and the Bible changes so I don't feel I can hold myself to any specific religion. I am a Christian who believes that God, the Father, is the Creator of all things. That he sent his only begotten Son, Jesus, to die for the sins of all mankind and that He will return one day to deliver us up into his Kingdom. The Nicene Creed pretty much sums it up for most Christians. http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm If I had said Catholic, Methodist, AG, Four Square, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. none of those would have really helped you to understand where I was personally coming from. I am one individual and no one does my thinking for me. I understand that a great many people simply follow what the preacher says. If that works for them then so be it. That isn't me. My relationship with God, Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim (God has many names) is between He and I and not with any denomination. The only way to understand where I am coming from is to know me. Not my "religion" becasue I have none. I hope that helps you to understand me a little better. God Bless P.S. If you enjoy reading about religion and politics then I recommend "Gods Politics" by Jim Wallis, Chief Editor of Sojourners Magazine (www.sojo.net).

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 25, 2005 09:09 PM (/Qmc1)

62 Brad, That makes sense to most people, however this is mostly the same people that believe that abandoning the people of South Vietnam, to "re-education" camps, slave labor, poverty and genocide was a victory for their movement. Now they want the same for the people of Iraq.

Posted by: dave at September 25, 2005 09:15 PM (CcXvt)

63 Sean: I didn't ask you your faith to condemn you. But knowing your domination helps me to understand you better. I did not want to attack you personally. Just curious.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 09:56 PM (rUyw4)

64 jesusland joe, just how do I support radical Islam? Do I support radical Islam because I do not support a wars that massacre innocents? There is no arguing with you. You are only going to believe what you want to believe, whatever you have read on your right-wing news websites and from the company you keep. If you were against this war when it started, why are you on a right-wing blog? Why be among the people who took us to war, lied, and created this horrible situation we are faced with now? Don't give me any, we were attacked bull. Iraq didn't attack us, there were no ties to 9-11, there were no WMDs. But now there are dead innocent men, women, and children. And there are thousands of them. Blood is on all our hands. "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:3-14) Also please read: Luke 9:56 You can spend your life fighting wars but you will never change God's plan. The end is coming soon. Are you so righteous and pure that you now have authority over God's law and commandments? "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself." (Matthew 6:33,34) By the way, the "Hell is for heros" post, that was me. I wrote that radically racist and hateful message to see who on here would take a stand against it. Guess what? NO ONE DID!! But you all cursed the anti-war protesters and cursed me, even when I quote the Bible. You call yourself Christians, yet you allow speech like that to go unchallenged and you continue posting on this site. You call yourself Christians, yet you curse down those who speak of peace. You call yourself Christians, yet you use the word of God to justify war, murder, and torture. Take a good hard look at yourself before you start dictating that we should all be like you and go marching off to war. And if you are not a Christian but still support hate speech and cannot see how evil this war is and that we all have the right to protest it if we want, I have one question for you. What happened to you in your life to make you so hateful?

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 11:58 PM (6VX9y)

65 Liberty: I don't hate Sheehan. I just think she's gone off the deep end and many people give her far too much credit. If she had only stuck to the matter at hand, it might be different, but she goes off on tangents and spouts some pretty hateful language about things that have little to do with her base cause. Those who support her ignore these things and when someone else brings it up as the basis for their lack of support for her they get ridiculed and bombarded with the same hateful rhetoric she has used herself. It only escalates from there. She became a tool of some of the most radical people in the country. She sold her soul to them. And I feel sorry for her because there are many who took advantage of her mental state and made her worse off than she was. And they don't care for her as much as they do for their causes. They'll toss her when she no longer serves their purpose. Maybe then she'll get the help she needs. She needs psychiatric help for herself as an individual so she can live a normal life. When she was joined by Code Pink I knew things were going to get out of hand. Then there was the father bigot himself, Jesse Jackson. And Michael Moore, and the list goes on. She has her own PR firm, makeup girl and strategists. A lot of people are making a lot of money off her. They're not working for free. I think it's kind of hypocritical when they speak of corporate greed, yet, they use the same corporate system to badger others. I can respectfully disagree with those who have well reasoned arguments. I find it very hard to extend respect to those who show none for me and commit the same transgressions they accuse others of.

Posted by: Oyster at September 26, 2005 07:31 AM (YudAC)

66 Peace be unto you: You're rhetoric belies your name. As for the Hell is for Heroes post, I knew it to be either a crackpot or a stealh post. We get those here all the time. We are very good at recognizing trolls, and no true conservative would use the terminology in that post. You set up a straw man, and then you judge someone based on whether they condemned the straw man. You Sir, are a whited wall, and I'm sure someone as familiar with the scriptures as you are knows what that means. I explained why I think we have to stay the course in Iraq. Did you not read my post? Are you proposing that we just pull our troops without any concern for the Shia? What will happen to them if the minority Sunni get control? What has happened to them in the past? The Kurds, do we leave them to the mercy of the Baathists? Do we turn our heads while poison gas is sprayed on them, including women and children? Again, I was opposed to the war, but realize now we can not just leave. Noboby I know wants to stay in Iraq any longer than necessary. I have a son in the National Guard, do you think I want this war to last?

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 09:32 AM (rUyw4)

67 Peace be unto you, What redneck named Hell is for Heros would drink a $4 Grande Mocha? You gave yourself away there, dude. After reading that screed again, I just laughed at such a pitiful attempt to be a conservative. You really need to get off those Lefty sites. Your mind is turning to mush. Are you saying that George Bush is the anti-Christ?

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 03:05 PM (rUyw4)

68 YOU ARE ALL RED NECKS !!!! FUCK YOUR PRESIDENT, AND FUCK YOU ALL 'CAUSE YOU'RE ALL BLIND ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING OUTSIDE YOUR FUCKING U S of A.

Posted by: phaasm at September 26, 2005 03:40 PM (r+shF)

69 You bet I'm a red neck how about I delete your profane sorry ass. How about it guys. Phassass

Posted by: Howie at September 26, 2005 04:03 PM (D3+20)

70 He's one of those little jihadi boys from Canada. For some reason they think they can intimidate over the internet. It makes them feel better when they utter their little screeds.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 04:36 PM (rUyw4)

71 I'm a veteran and I find that most of the comments I've read here that are in support of Bush and the "war" in Iraq are based in ignorance. Conservatives make comments about all of Clinton's lies when they get defensive, but what did Clinton really lie about? Getting some head? Bush lied about much more in order to get our country into this mess in Iraq just so we could neutralize the biggest threat to Israel in the Middle East. None of the conservative voices here seem to have a problem with Colin Powell being sent to our representatives to sell them this war with a slew of bogus information. Our president claimed Iraq had all kinds of terrible weapons and was preparing to possibly use them against our country. LIES. He also assured us that our government is not in the business of nation building, but that is what we are doing, isn't it? He also stated plainly to all of the world that every measure had been taken to avoid war even though he didn't allow the U.N. inspectors to finish their job before he had my brothers in arms start dropping bombs on Bagdad. There were no smoking guns except our own. I marched in Washington last Saturday, right behind Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Cindy Sheehan in my combat fatigue shirt and hat. Many of the counter-demonstrationers threw insults at me, calling me things like "traitor" and "communist." I AM A PATRIOT AND I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I have served on the frontlines of freedom. My combat boots were dirtied in the soil of North Korea. The people calling me all of those names don't know anything about me, who I am, where I come from or what I stand for. They are only ignorant enough to voice their prejudice toward my point of view in a hateful and disrespectful manner. It saddens me that the general apathy of the American public and it's overall lack of involvement in it's own politics has allowed our democracy to be hijacked by powers that can buy and control our politicians. Our system of government no longer serves it's people properly. It is of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation. Americans need to take back their government from the fascists who have hijacked it. The only way to do this is to get involved politically and force the system to become more than just a two party choice between Coke & Pepsi. People have to pay attention to the issues and voice their concerns to their representatives in the House & Senate. CONSERVATIVES ought to listen to their own arguments and maybe they'll realize how idiotic it sounds when they run out of intelligent counterpoints and just start with the Clinton-bashing and claims that those of us with a different point of view are somehow "un-American." This president, his administration and it's actions have done more damage to our country's reputation and our position in world politics than the next administration could possibly repair in a full 8 years. Get BUSH out of the White House before he does any more damage!!!

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 26, 2005 05:57 PM (6Y5iW)

72 Cindy Sheehan is a publicity whore, traitor, and a terrorist. She definitely belongs in: Bernard Goldberg's 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America. Great Book You liberals need to a take a long look at what it might be like living somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan, be proud of what you have and where you come from.

Posted by: USA#1 at September 26, 2005 06:03 PM (JxTwU)

73 veteran kenny, Did you look around you and see who you were marching with in Washington Saturday? The fact that you marched behind Al Sharpton tells me a lot about you. Do you know what he did in NY when he had a girl accuse the police of smearing feces on her after being raped. It was all a fraud, and Sharpton was an accomplice. Naturally, being in NY, he got off. Are you at all familiar with the Tawana Brawley story? Al Sharpton is nothing but a race hustler. I appreciate your service in Korea. My father served there also, and retired from the Army. My mother's brother was killed in Normandy. My son is in the National Guard at this very moment, so you don't have to tell me anything about service to this country. I totally disagree with many things you said, but do not have the time to comment on all of them, but if you looked around Saturday most of the people you saw were just plain anti-American. They were Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, radical homosexuals(Code Pink), abortionists(NARAL), animal rights activists(PETA), radical environmentalists(ELF), jihadists(many who were not US citizens), radical feminists(NOW), and I could go on and on. The point I'm trying to make is that you will be known by the company you keep. You are not very likely to change anyone's mind or even get a hearing when you hang out with that bunch of radicals and losers.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 07:58 PM (rUyw4)

74 cfgh

Posted by: grg at September 26, 2005 08:11 PM (A8AYI)

75 Why do people, when defending Clinton, always bring up one thing and one thing only; "the blow job". As if that is the only thing he ever did wrong that needs to be defended. I could post a list of some of the goings on of the Clinton Administration here that would curl the socks of those who think he was so great. And they would be simply, unvarnished and verifiable facts. But the list would be far too long for a mere comment. The media didn't talk much about some of these things. "The blow job" was so much more sensational. Kenny, if you're interested in speaking the truth, then admit that it's both parties, not just George Bush. It took far longer than his 5 years in office for things to get to where they are now. If you want to criticize Clinton-bashing, then why do you engage in Bush-bashing as your argument? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Posted by: Oyster at September 26, 2005 08:27 PM (YudAC)

76 You chicken hawks and warmongers aren't JUST stupid. You're cowardly too. You love war, so get out there on the front lines. You belong in the middle of Baghdad, and I'm not talking about inside the Green Zone. Prove you're not just a bunch of lazy couch potatoes whose idea of education is Fox News.

Posted by: John at September 26, 2005 08:32 PM (o1Nea)

77 you say "see the signs?" "get the picture?" "they have an agenda!" do you? because your "side" has signs of their own my friend. Signs in support of the war, and Bush and calling for the opposition to "get in line" are just as offensive as ones calling for "truth" and, god forbid "justice". read your own article with the same citique...the whole thing is a consiracy theory about this movement. and i'm not surprised of course. these people are tired of saying "gosh, something smells fishy about this and that" they've now decided to demand that the source of the smell be unveiled. we as americans, since your proud to be one, have the right to the truth from our representatives. especially when our children are dead. and we dont have the truth. history will bear it out, that much is certain...but without any accountability in for this admin. they will run amock with our rights, freedoms, and our children. sound too grousome? then perhaps you should listen to cindy.

Posted by: Duder at September 26, 2005 08:34 PM (ykeVy)

78 jesusland joe, I've read a great deal of your comments here and expected exactly that sort of reaction from you. I served to protect the freedoms that we all cherish. I saw all of the elements you described at the march, and they were, unfortunately, hijacking a noble and just cause to suit their own desires. It's a free country and they are allowed to do so, but it only serves to detract from the legitimacy of the pursuit of peace. I marched with my love of country and my patriotic pride alongside all of those who were brave enough to get out in the streets of our capital and put their own faces on the cry for what is right and just. Agreeing with any of the groups you mentioned on the issue of Iraq does not mean I agree with or support their primary cause or fundamental ideal, but that we all agree that the Iraqi invasion and occupation is illegal and unjust. Most of the people I marched with were mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, regular people who share similar feelings about the lies and deception our government used to justify the attack on Iraq. The "anti-American" element you describe was at best a fringe element that had to be tolerated because this is, thank God, a free country. I'm curious to hear what you think you know about me just because I stood 15 feet behind a particular person, in this case Al Sharpton, and marched through Washington exercising my rights and voicing my opinion. Your "point," that I will be known by the company I keep, makes my point. People from all walks of life showed up to march in protest; many, like myself, as individual citizens. YOU choose to look at the most extreme elements that surround us and transfer their ideals and values onto all those around them. That is called prejudice. I have found that the people who desire peace are generally genuinely kind, loving people. I have also found that the pro-war group in general draws it's strength from a deep well of hatred and prejudice, qualities that you exhibit time and time again in your postings here. As I witnessed in Washington, they and you tend to revert to name-calling, whether it's "traitor," "communist," "radical," or "loser," none of these applies to me. Rest assured that I do not keep company with "Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, radical homosexuals, abortionists, animal rights activists, radical environmentalists, jihadists, or radical feminists," but I do share the same views against our military occupation of Iraq as all those who marched with me in opposition to our actions "over there." WAKE UP AMERICA AND DEMAND YOUR COUNTRY BACK!

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 26, 2005 09:02 PM (6Y5iW)

79 oyster, In my original posting I did state, "the general apathy of the American public and it's overall lack of involvement in it's own politics has allowed our democracy to be hijacked by powers that can buy and control our politicians. Our system of government no longer serves it's people properly. It is of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation. Americans need to take back their government from the fascists who have hijacked it. The only way to do this is to get involved politically and force the system to become more than just a two party choice between Coke & Pepsi." When you say to me, "Kenny, if you're interested in speaking the truth, then admit that it's both parties, not just George Bush," my reply is that you are correct and I have stated exactly that. These are not partisan comments. Our two party system is severely flawed. You also accused me of "Bush-bashing" as my argument, and I never bashed Bush. I simply made the following factual statements: "Our president claimed Iraq had all kinds of terrible weapons and was preparing to possibly use them against our country. LIES. He also assured us that our government is not in the business of nation building, but that is what we are doing, isn't it? He also stated plainly to all of the world that every measure had been taken to avoid war even though he didn't allow the U.N. inspectors to finish their job before he had my brothers in arms start dropping bombs on Bagdad," and my opinion that "This president, his administration and it's actions have done more damage to our country's reputation and our position in world politics than the next administration could possibly repair in a full 8 years. Get BUSH out of the White House before he does any more damage!!!" I am not defending Clinton, but criticizing President Bush for not being honest with us about something as vitally important as invading another country with our military and occupying it. Can you really try to convince yourself that you were not lied to by your President about the pretenses for war in Iraq? And I guess that's okay with you? The end justifies the means?

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 26, 2005 09:27 PM (6Y5iW)

80 IMPEACH BUSH - ELECT A CHRISTIAN PRESIDENT! I was in Washington on Saturday and words cannot explain how moved I was to witness REAL CHRISTIANS that understood the word of God. Not like the ones that voted for this pawn of the devil based on the two issues that "christians" see as "sins." Matthew 24 speaks of being decieved and our country has been. Real christians know that, "he who is without sin should cast the first stone." All of us are sinners. Real followers of Christ know that we should not vote for Bush, someone that is no stranger to sin, one who continues to sins intentionally, which is blasamy. I loved the sign that said that thou shalt not kill means do not kill people. All of the what would Jesus do signs, and the words in red are what Jesus said. If Bush was just a man, I could understand his inhumane, greedy, devilish acts. The fact the this man claims to be a christian is shameful and has distorted the word christian. To be a christian is to live your life as the best example of Jesus as you can. Bush makes no attempt to live a good christian life. Worst of all Bush has set the worst example possible of christianity with the world watching. How are we to spread the love of Jesus if we bomb people before we can tell them? Over 120,000 INNOCENT civilian Iraqis have been slaughtered by our INNOCENT teenage troops that signed up to find the terrorists, but never got the chance because the Bin Ladens and the Bushs have been friends and bussiness partners for a half a century. This war is unjust, Collin Powell admitted last week there is not one connection between 9-11 and Iraq. Not one terrorist was there when we invaded. The handful of terrorists we have caught have multiplied times a thousand due to our unwanted presence there. BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS. Nowhere in the bible does the Lord say that killers are blessed. It says love your enemies, bless and do not curse, that we are not to judge but to love. It is impossible to do unless you have the Lord in your life. Being a christian is like a muscle, it gets stronger the more you use it. Try sayin God Bless you next time someone curses you in traffic. It seems strange at first, but your heart will feel it. Weapons, bombs, threats of invading countries that have or DO NOT have weapons of mass destruction will not end terrorism. Bush can act as bad as he wants and continue to add feul to the fire,steal feul in the process, but what he is doing will not end terrorism. DIVINE INTERVENTION is our only hope of fighting terrorism. Jesus said to put on your armor of God, walk in the gospel of peace, use your salvation, righteousness, truth, and the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT which is THE WORD OF GOD to fight the enemy. God bless all that read my message and I pray that the Lord will come into your heart and you will allow HIM to be your savior. THEN pray for our country and that God will soften the hearts of our enemies and BELIEVE that God will answer our prayers. Doubt will poison the prayer, BELIEVE and we will defeat the hate that war breeds. One more comment, Palestine has been Palestine for thousands of years, when Jesus was here it was Palestine. We gave the Israelis weapons to kill them and run them out of their homes for the past 50 years. To them we are the terrorists, to them we are not of God. All of the middle east has witnessed it and the terrorism began with it. It began with us and our weapons. We need to look at ourseleves and repent of our sins.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 26, 2005 09:31 PM (Q3RDR)

81 Kenny: Are you and your fellow demonstrators really suggesting we just up and leave?

Posted by: Brad at September 26, 2005 09:34 PM (6mUkl)

82 VETERN KENNY- I am so sorry that you are such a hateful man. You are judging others and claim to love the Lord? You must have had a very hard life. Tell me, how is Cindy going to jail so that she can save our soliders lives unAmerican? You hating on over 100,000 people and calling them all names is not having the holy spirt. It is called hate. If you want to go to heaven you really need to love people. You can not love God and not love people. I will pray that God will soften your heart because obviously you are hurting. I was in the rally and I do not fall into any of the categories you described. I do forgive you though and understand that you have had some tramatic things in your life, give them to God and think what would Jesus do if he was at the rally, would he really hold a pro-war sign? Be honest, it is a big part of being christian.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 26, 2005 09:40 PM (Q3RDR)

83 JESUS JOE> You are no Jesus, Jesus would not be a republican. Is it not harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven? What would Jesus do? Not one thing Bush has done. All of you republicans that claim to know Christ have so much anger and hate and jusitification of killing even without a reason, say that you are pro life then kill countless thousands, everything that contradicts the word of God. LOVE is greater than hate. Calm down and allow yourself to know the Lord. Become a christian if you want to be called one. Read the words in red, it is what Jesus said. Bush may or may not be the anti christ, one thing is for sure, he is no follower of the real Christ, and the devil defenitly has a hold on him. Read Matthew 24 and do not be decieved. God Bless You and may God soften your heart.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 26, 2005 09:56 PM (Q3RDR)

84 Christian Soldier: Help is available. Get help now!!!!!!!

Posted by: greyrooster at September 26, 2005 10:05 PM (6krEN)

85 Ya ever hear these lefty “Christians” denounce the murder of 3500 or so innocent people on 9-11. I’m listening...... If I get a response, it will be Bush's fault.

Posted by: Brad at September 26, 2005 10:20 PM (6mUkl)

86 You christians can make absolutely any subject boring. If you want to talk religion, why don't you go to your church? Your bible is boring to anyone who has the capacity to think. If christians are warmongers, the world doesn't need christians. Colonize the moon or Mars and have your inquisitions, crusades and wars there.

Posted by: John at September 26, 2005 10:25 PM (o1Nea)

87 Off subject: Hey Greyrooster, you need to get the keys to the blog and tell the Hurricane Katrina story first hand. IÂ’m glad to see your OK.

Posted by: Brad at September 26, 2005 10:35 PM (6mUkl)

88 Look how naive and selfdestructing:" Look when only 20% of the people think we can win the war, according to USA Today poll,then we ARE NOT going to win it." yes , if you have so little or no selfcompetance yes , then relay to polls and let those polls drive you into hell and concentration camps of the ennemy. I then compare yourself with the 100-ds of thousands political prisoners (forced labor) inmates in china (incl.Tibet)in force labor camps ,and those victims of the holocaust , and those Nazi warobjectors jews gays,unemployed ,gypsies and retarded that were used,abused (force labor caps) and killed in NAziGermany,Poland,Rumania 1935 -1945 But i am not with you.You fool yourself .You are a self-fooler.Good thing ,This semi-brained Media is not gore -ing our U.S. Guns. The effort is not lost unless too many people like you declare it lost. So get, lost , then. But me and the Bush Admin and the US Military (including f.e. Fmr General Alexander Haigg,Rush Limbaugh,cheney ,Ed Gillespie,Jeb Bush)we ignore polls , we deal with the reality the US might , the US ARSENAL and a course of action that let's us and civilisation survive. Clowns like : Sharpton, Randi rhodes, Cindy, Kennedy,Gore,Kerry,Bill Clinton,Mike maloy ,gl. Robertson etc. can surrender their US PAssports and report in Pakistan Iran Syria Lebanon to any Al Quada recruiting station/agents . Those are traitors , should be shot ,normally. I demonstrate diplomacy , however,I would give them a pass. They need to step aside(neutralized) now the next few years , so we can have a clear ship. To be more exact: If I could , I would maneuver things exactly the way so they come into the line of ennemy -fire first , this would represent a wake-up call for them. You missed the Vietnam -Lesson. Here You continue :" Now let's cut our loses and get out. Does anyone do math anymore ??? 250 billion spent on 25 million Iraqis equals 10,000 EACH !!! Average Iraqi household is just under 7 persons. That is 70,000 dollars per Iraqui household so far. Please tell me how much longer we should stay and at what point the Iraqis will be our friends instead of Osama's friends. " You need more education , when you say "spend $" we dont spent money from your/our pocket , we print the $ as we need them, the potential of how many trillions we can print and issue before we get hurt on this , is practically unlimited as long as we , the USA , can stay Number 1 (number 1 in all 3 respects politically,military and political) we are in a comfortable position.Oil purchases procurement and reffinings not a problem either. Transition to Hydrogen(-gas) Power will not cost a fraction of what people always think it would cost . Go to Google "h2homestations" or "BMW,Verbrennungsmotoren" Hurricain damage recovery , not a problem either. Pres.Reagan said "deficits don't matter". I say on top of him even Tax taxcuts s.security are consumed by the fact that we got the POWER. Thanks to the POWER we can print $ and live and prosper - on. Defending Taiwan, even , is doable. Even confronting a possible and probable Mr Putin is doable. We are the US of A and In Iran Russia and China there is people admiring the USA and its people .They would like to join, rather than get curtailed on their basic rights(life Property honor health) including FREEDOM .Some of them will soon the US Uniform. On the long run , we will come out on top ! We almost did so in 1946 when Winston Churchill made the suggestion , the Allied Forces should continue into china and Russia to govern them. Now we got the 3rd DHjihad facing us . France lost the 2nd one and Algeria is no longer France. Besides that , never forget France 2003 supplied Iraq with GPS jammertransmitters in their active attempt to have Our Operation failed. The great challenge now is, Iraq /Iran and N Korea. Europe and Russia prefer to watch . They allready assume that the first nuke clash is inevitable.Admittively ,a nuke exchange is probably going to take place . China has its complicated/complex plans and we prefer to watch them and prefer to arrange us with them. Back to Iraq. Winable or not winable. My answer is = winable . it is a question of managment. So far, Pres. Mr Bush has done the best job he can do. I could have probably done not much better . In 2003 war protestors said " not in my name" Canada, Germany, France etc. said , not with us . Senator Byrd (Virginia) said NO Turkey said "You are not passing our soil" Spain said after hit by ALquada = No more. Great Britain said after an extremely curious scurmishing (Mini Tank battle against "friendly Police station"), today 26 sept 2005 !!!)NO MORE. IN 2003 The Managment made a decision , Our Survival is at stake (in the long run) besides that we had substantial humanitary REASONS weighed in to. Besides this Nobody would guarantee the absolute reality about WMD at that point and time. US and allied aircrafts have been shot at at a regular basis (2300 times!from the Ground there) The cease fire contract from 1991 was breached in many ways many times. Besides that , we could not locate Bin Laden but we had these Baathists in POWER who had just as much evilwill AND WILL TO KILL civilisations randomly and even if arrangable in siucidmanner like Osama Bin Laden. The ennemy was identified and geographically grabable . there was absolutely a full legitimation to liberate ,compare D-Day 1944.(Osama , SHarping, Randi Rhodes ,Cindy ,Osama,T.Kennedy etc. would use the words invade and occupy in an agressionwar) Sure enough , the USA was highly welcomed as liberators in many parts of iraq especially Kurdistan where not 1 shot was fired in 10 years . Sunnies and Shiited need to fight out their civil war , we can step aside have them play this out, not a problem. Important at the end is the safety of our troops they can maintain (zero casualty) this, if no longer asked to engage in urban warfare .They can be held safe and sound , for many years , compare the decades of the cold war in europe ,compare the decades in japan. Recruiters of the Armed Forces have to be honest and generious.For example If Gay couples can join Tours together ,why should heteros not be allowed the same.This is however not a promotion for gays, i remind.I am just giving them a Pass. We are OK . we are safe . who makes us unsafe is : The liberals within the USA , the djihadists certain high militaries in china with their Submarines N Korea possibly Pakistan with their Submarines we need to keep up the arms race against them and we will be OK . we will get OSAMA. When ? at the latest at the end there. A word about Youth criminality in USA. Parents, stay with Your Kids, don't run after your credit-rating or Your cradit score. Unsupervised kids will affiliate with bad kids and wind up in jail, I will see to it, that a law comes into effect offering this jail term divided into the parents who failed resposibility to a substantial partition . f.e. a jail term 20 Years to an 18 year old can be served to 1/3 by the failing parent. A word about elections 2008 . Prepare now it is about the survival or downfall .Also promote the ring system this means: elect who you want not who you could possibly tolerate. If wars are in progress or imminent to get proscecuted, the opportunity should be used to assess the peoples opinion with specific questions.(a lot smarter than polls ! ) I am an Atheist so i have to close with: The Managment bless America gana romana FLA

Posted by: hu at September 26, 2005 11:00 PM (A8AYI)

89 Imagine there is a war and nobody came ? Mister Bertold Brecht + 1956 had the correct answer: This is better, german re-written by me. “stell Dir vor, es kommt krieg und keiner geht hin dann kommt der krieg zu euch! Wer zu hause bleibt und andere fur seine sache kaempfen laesst , wenn der Kampf beginnt, der muss sich vorsehen: Wer nicht teilgenommen hat am Kampf , muss dann an der Niederlage Teilnehmen . Es ist nicht so ,dass er den Kampf hat vermeiden koennen , in der Tat Hat er sogar dem Feind zu dessen Sieg verholfen. Imagine: war breaks out , and nobody goes there. - Then, You will be sucked in, into this war .The war will arrive to You. Those who then stay at home and let others fight for their cause Will have to share the defeat with them. They were not successful in avoiding war, worse, they caused the Enemy to prevail.

Posted by: hu at September 26, 2005 11:44 PM (A8AYI)

90 Those losers , who wanna lose their driverslicense : Follow Cindy (or Sharptone etc.) lose the ticket failthe citation never pay the fine make yourself unavailable to D.C./ Courtsystem fail to show up

Posted by: hu at September 26, 2005 11:59 PM (A8AYI)

91 I am not american but I pitty you all. left or right, cause it is obvious your goverment is using you. Not that mine is better (I am from Quebec, canada) but at least, even tought it is stealing our money & civil rights, it has not started yet, as far as know, plotting with terrorists to plan attack on it's own territory in order to justify futur wars. the desolating fact is that most of you on the right side don't even see it. At least accept the fact that iraq invasion was done to steal their oil. wathever reason was given by the Bush administration at the time has been proven false by now. And as a politician I also believe it is legitimate to give your friends the contract to clean your mess... at the tax payers expenses of course!!! Cindy might be silly and of course this war will secure oil supply for a few years at the cost of a few unfortunate kids who ended-up on the front line. This brings back the old question: Why do they always send the poor ???

Posted by: No 100 Watts at September 27, 2005 12:48 AM (3pZu3)

92 Hey No 100 Watts, FYI...not too many Americans give one shit what some asshole from Cananda has to say.

Posted by: RC at September 27, 2005 01:31 AM (Ltd4h)

93 Christian Soldier- Please read my postings again. I was responding to what OTHER postings in reply to my original called the protesters and defending them. I am not in any way a hateful man. The categories I described were things that "jesusland joe" tried to pin on my uniform just because people in those categories were also marching. That's sort of like sayin just because there's a wolf in a pack of coyotes that makes him a coyote, isn't it? I myself am a Christian soldier and I apologize if you were offended. I think you just misunderstood what you were reading.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 04:37 AM (6Y5iW)

94 Brad- Some of the protesters advocate just such a move. I DO NOT because, as a veteran, I realize that is implausible. I do take the position that those in power who lied, deceived, and turned to invasion and occupation before taking all measures to avoid war and reach a solution diplomatically must be held responsible for their criminal actions.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 04:43 AM (6Y5iW)

95 Brad- I was in New York assisting however I could on 9-12-2001 and I and any other thinking, breathing compassionate "lefty Chrisitian" would, of course, denounce those resposible for taking so many inocent lives. Instead of name calling it would be more intelligent for you to do some research and see who attacked us and why. All around the world it is well known that the group of terrorists were SAUDI jihadists, and that they attacked us because of our support of ISRAEL. Ignore what you are being spoon-fed by the American media and do some real research into it, and you'll see what I'm saying.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 04:49 AM (6Y5iW)

96 "For the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." Luke 9:56 jesusland joe posted: "The point I'm trying to make is that you will be known by the company you keep. You are not very likely to change anyone's mind or even get a hearing when you hang out with that bunch of radicals and losers." So, if you are supporting: this corrupt administration, a war that has taken the lives of thousands, the torture of children, the turning of our troops into murderers, the theft of billions of dollars from Iraq, and those in an actual PRO-WAR movement, what kind of company are YOU keeping? Let me ask you a question: Who would Satan be protesting, the war or the peacemakers? Beware of what side you are on.

Posted by: peace be with you at September 27, 2005 08:14 AM (BmtfW)

97 Kenny, I support Israel and itÂ’s right to exist. The fact that the enemies of Israel attacked our country does not make me want to withdraw my support. Your posts as well as those of many others here do show a trend. Sheehan and followers are becoming increasingly bold in their anti Israel, anti Semitic remarks. The left chooses to mainstream leaders like Galloway and Sheehan. You have chosen your leadership and it is a joke. I am reading comments from Moonbats from Canada, Europe and the US on this thread. If this is the message of the American left it will continue to drive thinking people to the Conservative camp. Your first casualties should be liberal Jews. How long can they actually stay in bed with the likes of Galloway and Sheehan? Peace Be With You: Your team just killed 5 school teachers yesterday because....well because they could. The withdrawal of our troops would leave this country to the mercy of these murderers. Is that really what you are advocating when you cut and paste Bible verses?

Posted by: Brad at September 27, 2005 08:27 AM (6mUkl)

98 Okay, so the US were never occupied by another country, has never been a dictatorship, never lost a war, has not experienced real hard suffering. I can understand why you have no idea what you are talking about. We Germans are grateful for the invasion 1945, but you can't compare apples and pears (as we say). How can there be any doubt that Bush is a war criminal exactly like Saddam or Osama? When you bomb a country and kill its citizens without any justifcation or any support by the UN, what does that make you then? A liberator, a peace fighter? I can hardly imagine how one could reasonably conclude that. What is really embarassing about all this is the fact that over 50% of Americans voted for Bush in 2004. Kerry would have won 85-15 in ALL of Europe. Maybe you should ask youself sometimes WHY the world has begun to hate the US administration.

Posted by: Turambar at September 27, 2005 10:59 AM (eubFi)

99 Brad Read this little report about YOUR team, then take a look at yourself in the mirror. That is, if you have the guts to do it. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/bbc29fb371b02011e16942345387f497.htm

Posted by: peace be with you at September 27, 2005 11:03 AM (BmtfW)

100 Na, I think IÂ’ll just try and show a virtue the left has never had. Perseverance. Your Peace is just cowardice. We have a responsibility and I canÂ’t abandon it because it the easy way out. Hey Hans, I think youÂ’re starting to get it. We donÂ’t give a damn what your insignificant ungrateful county thinks of us. ItÂ’s time to pull the troops home from somewhere, Germany! You can put the people who work on and around the bases on welfare along with the other 20% of Germany.

Posted by: Brad at September 27, 2005 11:36 AM (3OPZt)

101 Hey, Rusty. You REALLY don't see any connection between the 9-11 tragedy(coup)and the invasion of Iraq? To refuse and deny obvious evidence and absolute fact calls for a substantial suspension of logic. I sure hope you're not a medical doctor.

Posted by: whiteman at September 27, 2005 02:38 PM (IhKs7)

102 veteran kenny. I am sorry I thought it was you that wrote that hateful message. Obviously JOE needs JESUS. Your sincere message prooved that you would not write such hate. TO ALL THAT SUPPORT ISRAEL: Understand that there would be no terrorism now if we would not have given weapons to the Palestinian jews to kill the Palestinians. THEN there became and Isreal for the first time in thousands of years 50 years ago. All the middle east saw how we helped the jews kill innocent Palestians and steal their land. Why do you think that we finally agreed to give them some of the land back? My pastor said that you cannot scare people into religon, you are to love them into it. Something our govenment failed at miserably. We helped the jews go in there and say this is our land because God said so, so leave or we will kill you. THAT IS NOT OF GOD. That is not what Jesus would do. Jews missed the Jesus visit, and do not follow Him, but as a christian country we should. What if the jews came to us and said get out this is our land God gave us or we will kill you. We claim to know God and know that killing and stealing land is not something of God, that is how the muslims feel. My best friend is jewish and she undestand that the Palesinians have been terrorized by the jews for a half a century and we have helped them. Now the middle east has formed this terroist group to turn the tables and terrorize us. An eye for an eye has left our world blind, it is on the christians to pray for divine intervention now to end the terrorizing of all people all around the world.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 27, 2005 02:51 PM (Q3RDR)

103 WHITEMAN- PLEASE TELL ME WHAT CONNECTION DO YOU SEE BETWEEN 9-11 AND IRAQ? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR. PLEASE DO NOT INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE BY USING FOX NEWS AS YOUR SOURCE. COLLIN POWELL, THE MAN THAT SENT OUR TROOPS THERE DID ADMIT LAST WEEK THAT THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO. HE ADMITTED HE WAS WRONG, WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF REFUSE TO HUMBLE YOURSELFS AND FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM, FACE THE TRUTH THAT OUR TROOPS DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE OVER NOTHING. IF THEY DO HAVE TO DIE AT LEAST LET THEM GET BIN LADEN, BUT WITH BUSH PROTECTING HIM AND USING HIS FRIEND OSAMA TO BREED FEAR INTO OUR LIVES OUR TROOPS WILL NEVER GET THE CHANCE. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AT LEAST CHECK IT OUT IF YOU CARE ABOUT OUR COUNTRY AT ALL. DO YOU REMEMBER THE LAST VIDEO TAPE OF OSAMA AIRED ON TV WAS A WEEK BEFORE THE ELECTION? WAKE UP AND FIGHT FOR THE TROOPS THAT SIGNED UP TO FIGHT FOR US! SAVE THEIR LIVES SO THEY CAN SAVE OURS ONE DAY IF WE NEED THEM TO. THEY DESERVE SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT PAWN OF THE DEVIL BUSH SENDING THEM INTO A WAR WHEN BUSH WOULDN'T LAY DOWN HIS LIFE IN NAM. HE WAS BUSY PARTYING AND COULDN'T PASS A PHYSICAL LET ALONE GO TO WAR.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 27, 2005 03:08 PM (Q3RDR)

104 Peace be with you, My grandmother said: Birds of a feather flock together. My grandmother said: Fools names and fools faces are always seen in public places. Your rhetoric belies your name. Enough said.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:19 PM (rUyw4)

105 Brad- I made no anti-semitic or anti-Israeli remarks. I agree that Israel, of course, has every right to exist. I'm curious to know what leadership you believe I have chosen that is a joke, according to you.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 03:26 PM (6Y5iW)

106 Christian Soldier, Help is available to our beloved US veterans at the nearest Veterans Hospital. Brother, you need it.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:26 PM (rUyw4)

107 Turambar, You need to go and practice up on your Arabic. As soon as our troops come home, your choice will be to convert or go find a goat. On second thought, since you will be a recent convert, you will have to find a goat anyway.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:30 PM (rUyw4)

108 And for the rest of you dumn asses out there, Jesusland signifies a geographic location, not a religion. Rusty, this bunch of trolls are truly the most ignorant I have ever encountered. Banish them back to the asylum at DU and Idymedia.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:36 PM (rUyw4)

109 Christian soldier- No sweat. Apology accepted. Joe does obvously need to improve his relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God Bless You. I have traveled far and wide, and spent much of my time in foreign lands connecting with the people and finding out what they're all about. Jesusland Joe and those with similar points of view just don't want to open their eyes and see what citizens of other countries see when they look at the United States, or they just don't care. His statement to "Hans"(a term meant to insult and demean him, by the way)that "We donÂ’t give a damn what your insignificant ungrateful county thinks of us," is a testament to his immoral ignorance and short-sighted way of thinking. I think most Americans are far more compassionate than that, they're just not the people running the country(which I am sure Jesusland Joe is grateful for). Maybe they think we're supposed to rule the world, I don't know. We are all in this thing together, folks, everywhere in the world. We are one people. Can we not live together in peace???

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 03:46 PM (6Y5iW)

110 Jesusland Joe- You need counseling, man. Let go of all that hatred you've got burning inside you. Wherever it came from, whatever wrong was done to you to make you so angry, insulting and disrespectful towards others; go back, forgive it, and learn some compassion.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 03:58 PM (6Y5iW)

111 Kenny, you told us earlier you marched in Washington last Saturday behind Sheehan. She then would be the leader I refer to. You canÂ’t follow her around lockstep then distance yourself from her views. Also: I was the one who called our ungrateful German friend Hans. He was not doubt eating food and getting shelter from the Marshall Plan aid. His family was kept alive by the Berlin airlift. His freedom was paid for and guaranteed by the US military and taxpayer he hates so much. He was probably some Green party fairy kicking us in the ass the entire time we protected his country for the last half of the 20th century. No Kenney, I have no use for our friend Hans.

Posted by: Brad at September 27, 2005 04:39 PM (3OPZt)

112 Veteran Kenny, I don't have any hate. And I'm not angry, I'm disgusted that people actually believe some of the crap I've seen posted on this thread. No, Kenny, we can not live in peace when we have jihadists trying to reinstitute the Caliphate. It does not matter whether you give them Palestine, these people are not going to be satisfied until they control the entire world. You and the rest of your bunch had better wake up before you find your daughter in a burka and your head cut off as is the proper punishment for an infidel. Without a trial of any kind!

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 04:39 PM (rUyw4)

113 And none of you have answered my question. What is your plan to protect the Shia and Kurds if we pull our troops our immediately? Let them be murdered, beheaded, and gassed. Now that is real Christian of you.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 04:57 PM (rUyw4)

114 Thanks for the info RC... But I was already aware of that fact as not many americans actually know there is other countries in the world.

Posted by: No 100 Watts at September 27, 2005 05:05 PM (3pZu3)

115 Dim Bulb must be French Canadian; I can smell his crotch from here.

Posted by: Triumph the Insult Comic Dog at September 27, 2005 07:10 PM (3OPZt)

116 Dim Bulb is nothing but a dim whit.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 08:47 PM (rUyw4)

117 You are like children taunting each other in a playground. Why do you have to revert to insulting and name calling? It detracts greatly from the feasability of your argumentative logic. If you would stop hurling insults, racial and ethnic epithets at everyone whose opinions you disagree with, and start engaging in real, logical debate instead perhaps people would give your words some weight and some credibility. Instead, like the school bully, you choose to call people names, like Dim bulb, dim whit, hans, asshole, troll, etc..., and suggest things like those of Arab descent regularly have sexual contact with goats. SUGGESTION: converse with people, especially those you don't know whose opinion differ from yours, with a level head and a civil tongue, otherwise they won't listen and they won't hear your point of view. Instead they will just think you're the bully in the schoolyard. JESUSLAND JOE, 9/27 at 4:43 AM I posted in reply to Brad and in answer to your CUT & RUN question, "Some of the protesters advocate just such a move. I DO NOT because, as a veteran, I realize that is implausible. I do take the position that those in power who lied, deceived, and turned to invasion and occupation before taking all measures to avoid war and reach a solution diplomatically must be held responsible for their criminal actions." We're in there, we've turned it into what it is, and now it is our responsibility to be in the business of nation building, a business Presidebt Bush assured us all we were not in. (Presidebt was a typo but when I looked back at it I decided it fits very well, so I chose to leave it in)

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 28, 2005 08:14 AM (6Y5iW)

118 welll Jesus land Joe Iraq IS a messnow isn't it. Civil war has already broken out. Our NATO partner Turkey will not be too pleased with when the Kurds start looking west tohelp their cousins also have a homeland. Iran (part of the axis of evil) will take over all of the south. And the Sunnis will ne trying to regain their lost power over the other two groups.Democracy sounds good on paper but it just might not be workable in Iraq at this time. Oh yeah and please remember WE do not live in a democracy, we live in a republic (you remember like in the Pledge of Alegiance). Our Founding Fathers were noy very confident that the mases would vote correctly. Should we expect more of Iraqis now than we have shown ourselves capable in the past ? And although God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, His Son gave us a new commandment, "I give unto you a new commandment, to love on another"

Posted by: john Ryan at September 28, 2005 08:38 AM (ads7K)

119 Liberals would like to engage in debate until we lose the war. I like to put things to the point. Rebecca suck this.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 28, 2005 06:41 PM (6krEN)

120 Greyrooster: Watch what you wish for. Rebecca's got teeth and she'll probably bite that little thing hard.

Posted by: redpecker at September 28, 2005 10:13 PM (FVsHr)

121 Brad: I’m not ungrateful. As I said, we Germans are grateful for everything the US did for us. I don’t hate the US. As I said, the world has begun to hate the current administration which obviously does speak for only half of all Americans (see above). I’m not a friend of religious hatred, whatever direction it comes from. The problem is, I can’t see how the US administration can fight crazy Arabic terrorists by becoming terrorists themselves, torturing people, occupying countries, killing civilians and so on. Iraq wasn’t about religion or terrorism, Saddam had nothing to do with it. Now, Iraq is about religion and terrorism. Iraq wasn’t about freedom and democracy, the administration said it was about WMD and now that we know they lied, they just keep coming up with other justifications (WAR is PEACE, FREEDOM is SLAVERY?). Remember the US supported Osama when he fought the Russians? Remember Saddam was a friend of Rumsfeld when he fought Iran? Remember the Iranian Schah was an ally when he suppressed his people? Can’t you see how one mistake leads to the next? Europe would like to help the US making Iraq a stable democracy if that’s possible. Now that we are in this mess, we have to get out of it. But what if the administration welcomes any help saying: ``we told you before we’re right about this´´? That’s our dilemma. Our only hope is a US president (in ’0 with whom we can work together.

Posted by: Turambar at September 29, 2005 08:20 AM (42ain)

122 All right Turambar, thanks for coming back with such a reasonable post. I guess I may have been in defense mode with all the lefties taking shots. Just a couple of points: Like Joe said, many did not think the war was a good idea, no one likes the killing. The point I was trying to make and the one it seems only you and Kenny agree with is this: Weather or not you thought the war was justified, we are in it. I am a Catholic Christian. I do not think the Christian or right thing to do is withdraw from Iraq. The human toll would be terrible and the political situation would certainly be worse. A much more interesting and productive discussion would be one that you just touched on. How can we make the best of the situation we find ourselves in? Can we get former allies to join in a solution? What would that kind of support include etc? Again, Sheehan seems to be saying just cut and run. She supports this irresponsible position with some conspiracy theories that are just nuts. In my opinion her rant is counterproductive and offers no solution to our problem. Anyway, thanks for being a reasonable German friend. Sorry for the Anti German rant.

Posted by: Brad at September 29, 2005 08:53 AM (6mUkl)

123 Brad: No problem. I'm surprised by your kind answer, thanks. What does that show us? Dialogue can also be a mighty force and is much more likely to achieve peace. Certainly a majority of Arabs don't like Osama or Saddam. We have to strenghten the moderate Muslims and help the underdeveloped countries. How do we get there? Europe has chosen the quiet way. To cite the EU Cotonou agreement (for development aid), the best way to peace is ``to promote and expedite the economic, cultural and social development of the ACP states, with a view to contributing to peace and security and to promoting a stable and democratic political environment. ´´ That does sound a lot better to me than waging a war which will only strenghten the radicals. We need international cooperation and we also need the UN. Nobody can go it alone.

Posted by: Turambar at September 29, 2005 09:56 AM (XbwU9)

124 I think that your comments are way out of order. Who else would be pompous enough to proclaim the correct path for our country is the established status quo. Just because things have been established through tradition does not mean that they are legitemate. These people are the real patriots because they have the courage and passion to attempt to improve our society; not your society; our society. Russell Cole

Posted by: Edward R Cole at October 02, 2005 03:24 PM (7pU9+)

125 Point taken. Pooh, now that will not be easy. I think what is obviously so difficult for you all to understand on my position is that it doesn’t follow the rulebook of American politics (or more precisely: the arguing about it). My comments don’t fit into the usual liberals vs. conservatives debate with its clearly drawn frontlines. As I said, Europe would have voted 85-15 for Kerry which shows us the difference in political CULTURE. America is divided in a lasting way, the last election was won by Bush by referring to cultural arguments. A debate about gay rights or citing bible verses in political discussions is the last thing Europeans can relate to. So, to make it simpler to you: - I’m on the side of the protesters, because the war was completely wrong and the administration lied to the American people which should NOT be forgiven - I’m NOT on the side of the protesters, because you cannot get your troops out now without sparking a civil war in Iraq (fair to say: Europe has the most to lose if it turned out that way) If you look more closely, everything becomes more complicated. I guess that’s what I admire and hate about Americans: to act as if it was all black and white and good versus evil. That’s also why you think we’re risk- averse cowards, of course. I freely admit that this is half true, there IS something like German Angst. You can act, we have too much past around us to be constantly reminded that today’s empires will be tomorrow’s ashes. Watch out, my friends. Peace. ``My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. ´´ JFK

Posted by: Turambar at October 02, 2005 10:40 PM (kUhbu)

126 In fact, when I look out of my window there's the old Roman city portal. Karl Marx grew up 50 meters from where I sit now. Napoleon lived 1 km away for some time and the Nazis marched through this street as well as the Allied forced. The town itself had a population of 200 000 in 300 AD and now it's only half of this. How can you believe in an idea like progress than?

Posted by: Turambar at October 02, 2005 10:52 PM (kUhbu)

127 Turambar, The US and Brits do not belong in Iraq and must leave immediately. You write, "[Y]ou cannot get your troops out now without sparking a civil war in Iraq." What exists now is a war of foreign invasion prosecuted by the US and the Brits against the Iraqis. The purpose of getting the troops out now is to end this war. When one finds oneself in a hole, the first thing that one must do is stop digging. There is no reason to believe your assertion that a civil war would follow or your implied assertion that a civil war would be worse than a foreign invasion and occupation. In your estimation, what are the advantages of US and British troops remaining in Iraq?

Posted by: red pecker at October 04, 2005 11:31 AM (rihsR)

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I just received an e-mail from the patriot who is raising money for U.S. troops by auctioning off George Galloway's treasonous book. You can participate in the auction here. Would it shock any of you to know that he has received a slew of hate mail and fake bids?

Two bidders, I am told are especially guilty of abusing eBay policy and have bid up the price to over 9 million dollars (screenshot below is evidence). They appear to be from the U.K. What do Galloway supporters in the U.K. think of British and American troops in Iraq? Your friends, brothers, and children are, and this is a direct quote, "people who kill women and children for a living."

Ladies and gentleman, your average Galloway supporter! They don't want the troops out of Iraq because they care about your sons and daughters. They want the troops out of Iraq because they hate your sons and daughters. Baby killers, that is their view of the American soldier.

If that weren't enough, our patriot friend continues:

Not only have they found my auction "disgusting", which is quite the compliment coming from those who find suicide bombers as glorious, but they have also expressed to me their wish for every American and British soldier to find their end in Iraqi soil.

Of course, most of those against the war say they support the troops. There is actually a fair argument to be made that we should end the war because we cannot win, and we should not fight any war where we cannot attain victory. However, this is not the argument being made in D.C. this weekend by these protestors. What they are arguing is that the U.S. is bad, mmmmkay, and then try to dodge their own logic which inevetably leads one to conclude that if the U.S. and its allies are really the bad guys then it is perfectly acceptable to support those that murder them. more...

Posted by: Rusty at 02:05 PM | Comments (13) | Add Comment
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In a move that has delighted Star Wars enthusiasts and enraged Republicans everywhere, famed intergalactic heroes Lando Calrissian and Chewbacca recently turned up at an anti-war protest in Washington, DC.

Information and images here.

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Post contains 44 words, total size 1 kb.