1 Islam is a religion of peace, Arafart was a peacemaker, and I'm the Easter Bunny. Nothing to see here. Move along.

2 By all means, let's give these people a country.

3 A bit of humor from a friend in California... NEW ELEMENT FOUND! The recent hurricanes and skyrocketing oil and gasoline prices helped to prove the existence of a new element. In early October 2005, a major research institution announced the discovery of the heaviest element yet known to science. The new element has been named "Governmentium." Governmentium (Gv) has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by forces called 'morons' which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called 'peons.' Since Gv has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of Gv causes one reaction to take over four days to complete, when it would normally take less than a second! Gv has a normal half-life of 4 years; it does not decay; but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact,Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming 'isodopes.' This characteristic of moron promotion leads most scientists to believe that Gv is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as 'Critical Morass.' When catalyzed with money, Gv becomes "Administratium' (Am) - an element which radiates just as much energy as Gv, since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

4 The asswipe in the ski mask could be used on lefty humanitarian posters: This is Khaleed. He lives in Gaza and is ruthlessly oppressed by evil Zionists and their American weapons. When Khaleed isn't trying to kill one of his sisters for dishonouring his family, he must struggle to survive. Everyday at first light, he goes to the nearby highway where he shoots at passing cars and school buses in an attempt to get them to stop and 'donate' money and valuables which he will then use to buy essential items such as anti-personnel mines for self defense against the Zionist enemy. You can make a difference in Khaleed's life. For just one dollar a day, you can provide him and others like him with a new M-16 rifle, ammunition, an education in beheading and explosives use and help in locating his sister who married the Afghan car salesman without permission. Please donate now.

5 Please 'do' give them a state aka country...then the Isralies (and thier allies) will be well within international laws to strike them as legtimate hostile nation, who pose an ongoing eminent threat...responsible for the wrath of full and devasting force...once they attain statehood, the legal gloves come off...no more UN jew bashing decrees.

6 I like your thinking Grim.....

7 If I was as ugly as that camel jockey I would be a terrorist too. Who hatches these animals. They have to be the ugliest people in the world.

8 Greyrooster I knew I could depend on you for a decent assessment of that photo...I couldn't have said it better myself.

9 Right now I watching a rerun of Jurassic Park. I wonder?

10 I tell ya one thing, if I came from a stone-age culture and was sodomized up until puberty, I'd become a suicide bomber too.

11 Agent Brown asks, "Is he one of yours?"

1 I saw that interview, too. Levin's detachment from reality begs the question: what kind of idiots keep electing this incompetent pinhead?

2 Bluto: Yeah he started off kind of reasonable. I mean the idea that us leaving puts pressure on Iraq to do more makes some logical sense. Not that I think they are quite ready yet but after that it went just plain silly. I started off thinking well this guy is reasonable but like I said all downhill from there. I really liked Kristol's statment that Bush has to say polls be damned and just do the work but Fox does not have that posted.

3 And there's the little tidbit buried in the coverage of Saddam's trial, namely that Saddam loves to spout off Koranic verses when it suits his needs. Moments earlier, following a pattern he established during his initial court appearance 17 months ago, Mr. Hussein invoked a verse from the Koran, on this occasion one that seemed intended to suggest that the ultimate judgment on the events that occurred during Mr. Hussein's 24-year rule in Iraq would rest with God, not with the court. "Do you think that you will enter paradise without Allah judging those among you who fought hard in his cause, and remained steadfast?", Mr. Hussein said, reciting the verse from memory.It's not that he found religion while in prison, but uses religious statements regularly to obtain his goals. That's why the whole notion that he would never work with AQ or the Islamofascist terrorist groups was utter bunk. He'd work with whoever matched up with his own goals. He wasn't above funding Islamic terrorists attacking Israel, and certainly wasn't above hosting Islamic terrorists in Iraq (Abu Nidal among others).

4 Al-Queda and Hamas ? Hamas is most certainly much more connected to Iran. Al-Queda was formed in Afghanistan. Hamas had volunteers fighting AGAINST Iraq durring the war with Iran. Sunnis and shia have certainly killed a lot more of each other, than christians. Their history is like that of the catholics and the protestents 300 years ago.

5 Did anyone follow the links ? Most show Sadddam's support for Popular Front adn AbuNidal These are groups that have always had big political differences with Hamas. This tenuous attaching of groups reminds me of the left-wing charges of al-Queda being born of the CIA. Or that movie 6 degrees of seperation.

6 Rusty, I offer you an olive branch and you fart in my face. You think you hold all the power, but you hold none. You can't ban me. Click, click, click and I get a new IP address. It is we, the Brotherhood, who hold the power. We demand 10% of all your blog money. Email me to obtain the exact terms of your surrender.

7 Rusty, I offer you an olive branch and you fart in my face. You think you hold all the power, but you hold none. You can't ban me. Click, click, click and I get a new IP address. It is we, the Brotherhood, who hold the power. We demand 10% of all your blog money. Email me to obtain the exact terms of your surrender.

8 This is an interesting case. Since the late 1950s, when General Nasser seized control of Egypt, there have been two styles of government in Arab countries -- dictatorships cut from the same cloth as Nasser's, like Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Mohmar Qadaffi's Libya, and fanatical religious regimes like those found in Iran and Saudi Arabia. The dictators divide their time between keeping the population terrorized and therefore under control, and preventing religious revolutions to avoid losing power to a fanatical religious government. It's precarious at best. Both systems have one thing in common: their roots can be traced to that magical era when time stopped for Middle Easterners -- the 8th century.

9 Anyone who thinks that Saddam and bin Laden couldn't be tactical allies is fooling themselves. There is such a thing as honor among thieves and when you have two cock-sure thugs like them, each one is pretty confident of being able to overrun the other after their short term common goals are met. History tells us that mid 20th century Muslims were more than happy to align themselves with the Nazis and today's neo-Nazis have now claimed solidarity with Muslims. Saddam, inspite of differences in philosophy, was enamored with bin Laden. When the common enemy is hated enough politics make strange bedfellows.

10 Iran's terrorists are Islamic Jihad not Hamas,

1 Of course he means that in an introspective, peaceful inner struggle sort of way.

2 The towelhead may be right..If Condoleeza of Arabia keeps forcing Israel to give in more and more then eventually Jerusalem will be Muslim, and the United States will suffer serious consequences for killing off its only ally in a strategically vital part of the world.

3 Hey Howie, do an IP lookup on that guy and tell us where he's from. My guess is India, since his surname is Patel. One of the things I like most about the Jawa is how we succeed in peeving evil and deranged people from around the world and get them to totally lose their cool. which in this fellow's case probably isn't a challenge, but that's two minutes e-mailing that he had to take away from stirring the ammonium nitrate.

4 He comes back as from Washington DC but Rusty says that could be masked due to the provider.

5 got some Patels here nice poeple so far I hear that's a common name in the hotel business.

6 Patel is Indian. All the Patels I now are Hindu. Ditto the Rams. If anyone should know what Islamic aggression is about, it would be a Hindu. Must be a MoveOn.org Hindu....

7 I would suspect he is Muslim that name goes all over I think. Pakistan India area most likely. I'm guessing he is Muslim just a guess.

8 I know Patels who are Indian and Hindu, and I also know one family who is Indian and Muslim. Obviously a different set of Patels. But this guy is likely a Islamist, and even worse, an American or possibly a Britain.

9 It's funny how these weevils love to use hate-speech yet whine when the koran or their beliefs are questioned and protest loudly against anything mildly critical of Islam. Typical one sided muslim thought. My dream is for an Islam free planet but hey I'd settle for them to remain in their own countries instead of using the western internet and western tools to condemn us.

10 Sounds more like a kid - probably one of our own. Spelling,grammer and organization good - possibly suburban white afluent - probably a Ritilan baby bouncing off the walls from withdrawl or something. Patel could be anything.

11 Yes I may just be making a troll happy eh hondo.

12 You know what would make him even happier, Howie? A visit from the feds. We got someone possibly in DC threatening to "burn" New York. That distinguishes this from a lot of the other "love mail" we get around here.

13 Yep and I sent Rusty the info to do whatver Rusty does with that sort of thing. Plus while checking him out I was surfing the blog counter. I noted several interesting hits from several interesting places. Namely the US Senate for one. So they are reading here as well.

14 Dude, Rusty's actually Senator Saxby Chambliss. the academic gig is a red herring. He checks in now and then. Don't tell anybody.

15 No don't tell me nanananananananananaan I don't need to know. Ignorance is bliss.

16 If they want Jerusalem so badly, why don't they just go for it. What are they afraid of? Oh right......the Jooooooos and their IDF.

17 Jester, If you are not familiar with it, let me tell you about the Spanish experience with the Muslims after the Reconquista. Muslims were allowed to live freely in Spain, and soon after the end of the war for the reunification of Spain, the Muslims attempted a revolution. Finally, the Spanish were forced to expell the Muslims or force them to convert to Catholicism. They did not want to do this, but it was forced on them. I think that will be Europe's choice again, if it wants to survive.

18 The Jew is a vile creature descended from monkeys and pigs Since both Jews and Arabs claim decent from Abraham, doesn't that insult Arabs as well?

19 Mahatma, I see that there is more to you than just rice!

20 JJ, unfortunately the powers the Spanish had no longer exist in Europe as it is the Christians that tolerate Islam and kept it amongst their societies. Didn't the Pope plead for tolerance between all religions? with a special mention given to islam. The fact is people will react to terrorism when it gets to the point where they fear for themselves and then drive them out. Europe will have to experience a 9/11 of it's own to get the message that tolerance with these people gets nowhere.

21 BREAKING NEWS NBC just reported that the American military used White Phosphorus as a WEAPON "against insurgents". There were 40,000 civilians still in Fallujah at the time. Look at 'em. Jack off to it. http://www.uruk net.info/?p=m10211&l=i&size=1&hd=0 (TAKE OUT SPACES)

22 Greg, you freakin' moron, everyone knows, and NOBODY CARES. And I hope it hurts like hell.

23 greg: Breaking? the story has been all over the Internet for a week, since it was originally published in an Italian magazine/site(?) It's been majorly discredited due to the conditions of the bodies displayed as 'evidence' and due to the fact that no one observed it being used as a weapon other than well, insurgents. However feel free to keep quoting it as a fact, you know who to trust over the American Military, that's right the Insurgents and the Italians!!!

24 You know, I cannot help but wonder where the hell these people like Greg want to go. Do they want us to lose the war in Iraq, and what do they think will happen in Iraq if we leave? Is it just Bush Derangement Syndrome? Do they hate Bush that bad? Do they hate their own country that bad? Do they not see that we must support our troops until they win? Why are they helping the enemy? Do they not know that the troops coming home to a loss or premature exit that allows the Islamists to take over will be ready to hold them accountable? Because I sure as hell will be, and it ain't going to be pretty, I tell you that for damn sure! And I could give a shit whether I live 1 damn day after something like this happens. And Greg and his buddies should know exactly what this means.

25 Impy, Dave don't know. He's stoopie. Dave:"However feel free to keep quoting it as a fact, you know who to trust over the American Military, that's right the Insurgents and the Italians!!!" Um, er, ah, like um Dave, the military has admitted it.

26 Joe, Um, uh like, the American people have been betrayed by their lying conniving Government, both Dems and Repugs.

27 White Phosphorous is the new Depleted Uranium. It sounds oh so scientific, so the conspiracy theorists have latched onto it. I wouldn't be suprised if in the coming weeks to see all sorts of things attributed to it, from birth defects and learning disabilities in children, to spoilt milk in goats.

28 And what you are doing or trying to do will accomplish or attempt to accomplish what, Greg? I'm curious, because be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

29 I want us to unite as voters and throw out all the politicians, Dems and Repubs. I want the ones who comitted treason to pay. I want the American people to declare bankruptsy and tell everyone who thinks we owe them money, to fuck off. Come get it, we ain't payin'.

30 Greg: Prove it: Quote one current military commander, that claims to have deployed White Phosphorous as a weapon, to deliberately kill or maim insurgents. With your quote, I'm sure the "admittance" is using it to illuminate by air burst, which it has always been used as, but don't let facts stand in the way of slandering those willing to protect your right to slander them on the Internet Greg.

31 Does that meant the United States can count Saddam's WP as WMDs? Oh, and wait until they find out that ordinary explosives act at the atomic level then they will accuse the US of using atomic weapons.

32 So championing the rights of terrorists ultimately will lead to the national debt being forgiven? That's a hell of an economic plan.

33 And then what, Greg? A verse of kumbaya and a group hug?

34 DAVE IT WAS ON NBC NEWS TONIGHT. THE US STATE DEPT ADMITTED THAT THE MILITARY USED WP AGAINST INSURGENTS. JEEZ! Joe and Graeme, Stay under the economic yolk if you wish. You truly are sheeple.

35 Howie: The Patels are the very highest caste in India. Well respected and looked up to. I know. One was my partner for 18 years. He was a class act.

36 Did US forces use prohibited weapons during last year's military campaign against the Iraqi city of Fallujah? Yes, say the makers of a documentary broadcast this week by Italy's RAI public television service. The programme claims the US military used a kind of napalm and the highly inflammable white phosphor, but the Pentagon and US State Department deny the allegations. Radio Netherlands, Netherlands - Nov 10, 2005 That sure was a quick retraction, it must be those impeachable sources that got them nervous, the Insurgents, and the Italians!

37 Greg you traitorous asshole. You've been playing the white phosporous thing way too long. You lonely, pitiful little prick. Give it up.

38 I saw a picture of a dog killed by WP on the news here and had more pity for it than the insurgent scum burned by it. That sums up how much I care about the use of WP in Iraq.

39 Here Greg, heres a Pentagon statement: US confirms use of white phosphorus in Iraq Meanwhile, the Pentagon has confirmed that US troops used white phosphorus during last year's offensive in the northern Iraqi city of Falluja. Spokesman Colonel Barry Venable told the BBC the chemical was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants, but not against civilians. The US had earlier denied the chemical had been used in Falluja at all. However, Colonel Venable denied that the substance - which can cause burning of the flesh - constituted a banned chemical weapon. Washington is not a signatory of an international treaty restricting the use of white us devices. Colonel Venable said a statement by the US state department that white phosphorus had not been used was based on "poor information". So greg, you are indeed correct, the U.S military targeted insurgents positions with phosphor rounds. Next question, why should I care?

40 Dave:"Next question, why should I care?" Cuz there were 40,000 civilians in Fallujah at the time. Notice that one of the dead is a woman. http://www.uru knet.info/?p=m10211&l=i&size=1&hd=0 (TAKE OUT SPACES)

41 Greg is back to the original story that was debunked last week. Greg, WP IS NOT A CHEMICAL WEAPON. YOU, THE MSM, THE BBC, ALL THE PRICKS THAT SAY IT IS ARE FULL OF IT. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?. THE US HAS USED WP IN EVERY CONFLICT SINCE WWII. WP has not been banned by any convention the US is signatory to. This is all a bunch of bullshit! Do you understand, or maybe you are retarded in your comprehension.

42 It's not a chemical weapon. It's not banned. There are no reliable witnesses who say it was intentionally used on civilians. The pictures don't show what you claim they show. The people telling you these things are lying to you. They're trusting that you're so eager to hate America that you'll never bother to question what they say. You're proving them right.

43 you're all hopeless

44 No, Greg, you are. What you are trying to do is wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

45 Are all the reporters working at the old legacy networks just a bunch of dumn asses or what? That fool at NBC, Brian Williams, was pimping the SOS about WP we've been discussing for a week around the blogosphere. Do these people do any research, or have anyone hired to do any research? Do they know what Google is? They are truly as useless as tits on a boar hog.

46 If Jews are descended from monkeys and pigs, why are there still monkeys and pigs? There, I've disproved the Theory of Monkeypig Evolution.

47 Darned if you didn't, Ms. Pixy Misa. Where the heck are all those otters at tonight?

48 I was in Columbia South Carolina tomorrow night, and found out that Steve Spurrier died for our sins. Two days from now I used to be in Daytona Beach and found out that Michelle Wie is my Lord and Savior....none of this has anything to do with anything but it gives me an opportunity to say that every Muslim in the world should be force-fed bacon, ham, and sausages and then give them some pulled pig sandwiches with barbeque sauce while making them wash their faces for once in their lives with pork lard soap.

49 We should use any weapon at our disposal to defeat the cursed muslim hoard. Grey is a traitorous coward. A lowlife in the truest sense. More of an enemy than any muslim islamofacist. Pityful little shit.

50 Why to they place the Y so close to the G.

51 "Notice that one of the dead is a woman." Yes. It appears to be a woman. Notice that one of the bombers in Jordan was a woman. (Or at least they said she was. Looked like a particularly ugly man to me.) Not only that, but she seemed to be wearing a low, V-cut, stylish dress. Something that, at the time, would not have been permitted "anywhere" in Fallujah. Hmmm. I may be on to something here.

52 I just noticed, too, in the email - see how he capitalizes "Jew", but not "muslim"? It's possible the poor wretch has an inferiority complex and just needs a hug.

53 Greyrooster: Yes we have several Patels spread around here too. A lady & her husband and some girls about 20ish. So I can't quite explain while this person or whomever seems a bit ornery. Also keep in mind whomever said that may be deceptive using whomever elses email. Greg how come you are not upset at the UK as well?

54 Does the New York Times know this guy's plagiarizing their editorial page?

55 Fisking the WP story http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/133663.php Arkin Up The Wrong Tree I've come to expect a certain level of dishonesty from the foreign media regarding the error-riddled white phosphorus "crockumentary" produced by Rai News24, but it is another thing entirely for a writer for a major American news organization based in our nation's capitol to uncritically repeat such "news", as has William M. Arkin in his Washington Post piece, "White Death" Is A Losing Strategy.

56 The E-mail doesn't work.

57 This just in: New evidence has been uncovered that AmeriKKKan troops are using real bullets in their weapons, and are refusing to stand out in the open and let the Iraqi Freedom Fighters shoot them! Film at 11:00.

58 For shame! For shame! I don't believe it. Americans would never sink so low. That would make the playing field too much in the Americans favor. I'm sure some General will change this new real bullit rule to a kinder, genteler approach to the problem of Marines being killed by road side bomber cowards.

1 Rockefeller also admitted in the interview with Chris Wallace that he told Syria that the US intended to attack Iraq long before the invasion took place. Wonder what precautions Saddam and Assad were able to take with that information from a US Senator. Don't say an invasion was obvious to Saddam, because a threat of an invasion is much different than an actual revelation from a senator. Rockefeller and the Democrats should be taken to task over this.

2 For a guy [Rockefeller] who is quick to take to task those who make assumptions, he sure is making a lot of assumptions. 1) Bush Planned to invade Iraq the day after 9/11? Hell, every president has plans, ready at hand, to invade anyone at any given time. They'd be stupid not to. 2) If we kill Zarqawi the whole network will diminish rapidly? I doubt it. This is merely wishful thinking. There's a lot of that going on. 3) We only had two days to decide? WAAAHH! They had over a decade to decide.

3 Rockefeller is a fucking traitor.

4 Yes, he is, IM, along with many others. What should we do?

5 Isn't hanging, or firing squad, the normal method of disposal for traitors? After due process of law, of course. If Bush had any balls, he'd have Justice enforcing the separation of powers, but he doesn't, because he isn't a real Republican, he's just a conservative dhimmicrat who doesn't want to deal with traitors or the border problem, and who has only expanded the government since he took office. I'll never vote dhimmicrat, but I damn sure won't vote Republican next time.

6 It's not so amazing that we can't get anything done even having the majority in every branch of government. It's because we DON'T have a majority. We have too many Senators and Congressmen who say they're Republican on paper, but aren't in practice. McCain, Specter, Voinovich, etc. aren't Republicans. Hell, McCain is more popular among Democrats than his own party. Lindsay Graham, God bless him, has balls. And Curt Weldon, Orrin Hatch, George Allen, etc. There are some good ones. I voted for Mel Martinez to get rid of Betty Castor in my own state and now he is even pissing me off. Next cycle we'll likely have Katherine Harris going up against Bill Nelson(D). I want to get rid of Nelson, but please don't make me vote for Harris. I can't even look at her without imagining her wearing a t-shirt that says "I WISH THESE WERE BRAINS".

7 Screw 'em all, I'm voting for David Duke or some other asshat next time, just because.

8 you all are funny

9 Anyone hear of LIBERRTARIAN (i.e. CONSTITUTIONAL PARTY)? You get what you vote for.... Vote for the lesser of two evils and you still end up with evil! I too am as guilty as the rest, there just wasn't any GD way I wanted Al Gore or John Kerry in there, so I voted for G Bush. IF I ONLY HAD A CHOICE! BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT POLITICS IS ANY MORE. BOTH MAJOR PARTIES ARE THE SAME, JUST TO DIFFERENT DEGREES. TEX

1 Listened to Bush's entire speech, it was a keeper.

2 Not enough boobie? I got Barbara Streisand naked pics. C'mon over. However I will tell you, it just about turned me gay after seeing them.

3 Allah, don't you EVER do that again! Gah! My eyes!

1 Riots in Europe? Western civilization collapsing before our eyes? Islam in full-out war against the West? Nothing to see here, move along. Look, over there! It's Scooter! GET HIM!!!

2 I never claimed the present admin was perfect. I said it was far ahead of anything in second place. Besides, what's the big deal? She was a desk clerk who din'nt show up for work half the time. Not like she was a field agent.

1 I hope you're happy President Bush!!! Look what you've done to those people and their country!!! Bring the troops home now!!! On the seriuos side, those are real soldiers; real heroes.

2 My post my rules eh finn. Off subject.

3 Feel free to remove everything I've ever said while your at it. None of it is about a subject.

4 Nah interesting site. greg would love it at least let me get my point across for five minutes before you pollute. you jerk my chain I delete you just fun stuff you know. Post a positive image of Finns hard at work in the former Yugoslavia. I know I know nasty stuff is more fun but for this post positive is the theme.

5 I could, but it's not right to brag about things I didn't do myself. And UN has just 2% of all the Finns in warzones, the rest are doing mercenary jobs who knows where. So I'd have to find out what they're doing before bragging about how great the peace keepers are.

6 Sounds like a good project though I'm sure Finland does great stuff too. No shame braggin on your country Finn. By the way hows the weather? Its sunny and 70 degrees here no not centigrade either. 2 % 20 % no matter you are helping and that is what counts.

7 Sometime back, I reported to you that the Americans used something like napalm in Fallujah, it's called "White Phosphorous". Go to: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m10211&l=i&size=1&hd=0?to see the crispy Fallujan's who were the victims of American white phosphorous bombs. I'm sure you're very proud. Now, the mainstream media has picked this story up too. "The documentary begins with formerly classified footage of the Americans using napalm bombs during the Vietnam war. It then shows a series of photographs from Falluja of corpses with the flesh burnt off but clothes still intact - which it says is consistent with the effects of white phosphorus on humans. Jeff Englehart, described as a former US soldier who served in Falluja, tells of how he heard orders for white phosphorus to be deployed over military radio - and saw the results. "Burned bodies, burned women, burned children; white phosphorus kills indiscriminately... When it makes contact with skin, then it's absolutely irreversible damage, burning flesh to the bone," he says." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4417024.stm http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece

8 Around 10 degrees Celsium, odd, moist, cloudy weather with a bit of warm rain 3-5 times a week... So very warm for this season, and I want SNOOOOOOOW! Good thing is the fish are spring active, worm, stick, hook and yarn, and you get a salmon in a minute if you know the good rivers.

9 Oh the humanity!

10 You illegitimate criminal US imperialists who lord it over! Your sily posturing that mocks the pain and suffering of the world children you abuse wholesaledly cannot hide your brazen criminal nakedness in the eyes of world progressives. Your crimes against humanity, making their lives miserable, never cease. http://songun-blog.blogspot.com/2005/11/us-imperialist-war-crimes.html

11 Oooooo criminal nakedness in the eyes of world progressives......sounds kinky and kinda fun. Is that like flashing Diane Feinstein?

12 I'm typing this comment in my "brazen nakedness".

13 Hey Banner, I got yer "brazen criminal nakedness" right here!

14 I love this site. I can vent my hatred of Islam and rejoice that the Western world is so great. Hooray for the USA!

15 Who is that banner of songun? Oh, crap, I thought he said shogun! I was almost interested in looking at his dumn blog until I realized he didn't mean shogun. Darn! Flashing Dianne Feinstein? I thought she was one of those old Breasts not Bombs hags! Well, the name does sound familiar. Hmmm....I'll think about it and get back with you, Graeme. Haha!

16 Oh, yeah, go Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force! You do a fine job and receive not a portion of the recognition you deserve. Thanks, Howie, for letting us see what good work our men are doing.

17 I think that as far as progressives go, Diane Feinstein would have one of the funniest reactions. Flashing Ted Kennedy probably wouldn't be the best way to go.

18 Willie Pete in Iraq? A fire mission with WP? What morons the left! Why stop there - how about neuton hand granades or particle beam weapons. 27 years in service and I know munitions and when where if ever they are used. I could explain how stupid that sounds but I already know it wouldn't make any difference to the idiots that want to believe this crap. The left amazes me! Many of the claims they make are so outlandishly over-the-top and they are oblivious to it!

19 nekkidddd!!!!!!.

20 They are just upset I made em look. I know cheap and ordinary but fun

21 dont froget the Bulgarian dude. I work with a lady from there and an East German lady. Night shift good workers.

22 Nah, Graeme, better not flash Teddy. He might get some weird ideas; well, weirder than he already has, if that is possible. HaHa! And I looked at the blog of the son of a gun, or was it son of a bitch? Well, whatever, he was breathing the, get this, North Korean party line. He was sucking up to the supreme leader, Kim Ilk Yilk, or whatever his name is. Son of Gun, or is it Bun, is lacky of unprogressive tool of repressive administration of war mongers. Ha!

23 I disrobed for the sole purpose of this post. My faux leather office chair is cold.

24 Hondo:"The left amazes me! Many of the claims they make are so outlandishly over-the-top and they are oblivious to it!" Look at the fucking pics you little bitch. Read the BBC report. Pull yo head out sher aaahes. Your brain is so fried with Depleted Uranium, you can't reason any longer. Go ahead and bend over, all the way.

25 Greg you silly little traitorous faggot. Shut the fuck up. Only a piece of shit would post on a blog he has been voted off of. No pride. You are nothing but a lonely little shit. Get lost. Punk!

26 Greg yes several things we use can cause that. It's war people get blown the hell up that's what happens that's what it looks like. Now I've not noticed us fire bombing cities to ashes lately. Dead burnt bodies are ugly what do you think people look like after a car bomb? What did peoples bodies look like as New yorkers were breathing them for months after 9-11.

27 Rooster, you lazy fuck. Uncensor yourself by pulling your head out of yer ass. Howie, Dude. Come on man. You're better than that. Look at the people's clothes. They're not burned. Only the flesh burns with Willie Pie. Did you read the BBC report? The Independent report? Have you seen the Italian documentary? Or are you in your safe place?

28 Finn: Hey that's not too bad how long till it's dark all the time. deaybreak here is right now about 6:00 and sunset about 5:30 or so. Getting shorter yuck. Record high here today 80f. I'll go look at the thermometer here in a minute. Stays nice here till Dec or so. Some cold but mostly nice best time of year fall here. Not too hot not cold yet. I'll be lucky to see two or three snows. 20 inches avg per year. I like it. We do get a bit of fairly cold 0f or so once in a while.

29 I never got a vote. My name is Menezes' Ghost. You celebrated my death. I'm going to haunt you, you sick fucker, for the rest of your short life. Got it Dick, or is it Richard?

30 No I have no doubt it may or may not be used and bombs are pretty much nasty. But I don't think we are going around just fire bombing whole cities like WWII. The damage is just as nasty but more direct I'm sure errors are made and people get killed. Could be ours could be a secondary explosion from the enemy. It's not pretty, wrong place wrong time it's a shame war but that's what it is. But good happens as well and I'm just pointing that out. No one wants to look at the good side because well let's face it, boring. But that also leads to a tilted perception that all is bad just because the bad gets told over and over and good gets overlooked because it's boring. I have no illusion that war is a good thing it sucks but tell that to the other side.

31 Uh those were for fin and greg repectively. I gotta go men I was just catching up on some work. Have a good one.

32 Haven't seen the sun in weeks, Howie, it's just a tiny ray of light in the horizon at about 13:00 GMT+2, if the sky is clear. Midday now, and there's light of some sort, but it's similar to summer nights. I like this murky time between complete light and complete darkness. I'm used to having at least 1 foot of powder snow at this time, and 6 feet in powder snow(/ ~3 feet of stomped+frozen) in January, when the temperature goes to the greatest ice fishing weathers. Those are the best days of winter: completely still wind, freezing -45 Celsius (-49 Fahrenheit), so cold that the fish you pull up from the constantly freezing hole in the ice are deepfrozen fast enough to melt in hot water and put into your own pond alive and well...

33 Heh, it's funny watching greg clatter and foam. Wassa matta greggy poo? Your little moonbat world coming apart on you? Your beloved muslims are destroying your beautiful socialist EUtopia, and you're just mad because it's supposed to be America burning, and not France, right? I only have one question: What's your breaking point? What horrible event or combination of events will it take for you to snap? Will it be when all socialist countries finally collapse and expose your beloved ideology as the sham that it was? Or maybe it will be a free and prosperous Iraq and the defeat of al Qaeda? Will you kill yourself then? Why don't you embrace the inevitable, then embrace the toaster as you step into the tub...

34 Look at the people's clothes. They're not burned. Only the flesh burns with Willie Pie. I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Cotton ignites at 520C; white phosphorus burns at around 2800C. How does something 2280 degress above the ignition temperature not ignite cotton? Or maybe you're just repeating crap you don't understand?

35 Finn: So you also get northern lights too I bet. Cool I can see em once in a blue moon and then it's mostly just a glow too far south for a good show. I would like to take a trip over there one winter and one summer. Just to look it over I hear it's really great. I may not make it over there but maybe Moosefactory Canada or Alsaka one of these days. For not Bumfuct Egypt is pretty awesome. So my intent of this thread was some positive picks should have known the comments would kind of go astray I mean this is the jawa and since the theme seems to be gross pics on comments, post your back if you like. Go with the flow eh, Im over my drunken with power binge. Now back to my loose green tea my cube mates wife brought back from Vietnam. Uh trust me the stuff we get here is nothing like this in fact I'm a bit worried about splaining it's freaking green tea stupid er I mean officer. It looks kind of unlawful hell maybe it is I feel damn good since I've been drinking it quite stimulating.

36 Robert Crawford:"I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Cotton ignites at 520C; white phosphorus burns at around 2800C." Robert, Willlie Pie interacts with water. That is why it doesn't burn clothes. If you look at the pics, you'll see that melting occurs first at orifices and mucous membranes. See for yourself: http://www.uruk net.info/?p=m10211&l=i&size=1&hd=0 (Take Out Space)

37 Ghost -- you're wrong. WP's reactions in water is thousands times slower than that in air. In fact: The allotrope white phosphorus should be kept under water at all times and therefore presents a significant fire hazard due to its extreme reactivity to atmospheric oxygen The same source mentions that contact with the skin can cause severe burns, but also that ingestion causes a 'medical condition known as "Smoking Stool Syndrome"'. Now, if WP had a particular affinity for mucous membranes, then I suspect that ingesting it would cause a condition more serious than "smoking stool syndome". In fact, that name suggests that the WP doesn't react -- or reacts very, very slowly -- despite being IN CONTINUOUS CONTACT WITH MUCOUS MEMBRANES. It's only when it hits the air again -- mixed in with stool -- that it begins to burn. The "melting" you're talking about is almost certainly an effect of decomposition. Go read Daily Ablution, if you're truly interested in a contrary take on those photos.

38 And here, from the CDC: Breathing white phosphorus for short periods may cause coughing and irritation of the throat and lungs. Breathing white phosphorus for long periods may cause a condition known as "phossy jaw" which involves poor wound healing of the mouth and breakdown of the jaw bone. Eating or drinking small amounts of white phosphorus may cause liver, heart, or kidney damage, vomiting, stomach cramps, drowsiness, or death. We do not know what the effects are from eating or drinking very small amounts of white phosphorus-containing substances over long periods of time. Skin contact with burning white phosphorus may burn skin or cause liver, heart, and kidney damage. The people who are telling you what you're repeating here are lying to you.

39 Robert, Some agent was used that interacts with intracellular and extracellular fluids. Look at the mouths and the noses to see where the damage is most severe. Got any explanations?

40 Greg, do a little Googling™ and see for yourself. When a white phosphorous grenade detonates, the phosphorous is burning when it hits you. It's what gives tracer rounds their little flame trail, and yes, it will burn clothes. It will burn pretty much anything it touches. From the internet: A hard waxy substance, pure white when fresh but yellow as it ages and slowly converts to the red allotrope. White phosphorous glows in the dark if just a trace of oxygen is present and which if allowed to dry spontaneously bursts into flame producing prodigious amounts of white phosphorous pentoxide smoke. It is usually stored under water or mineral oil.

41 Some agent was used that interacts with intracellular and extracellular fluids. Look at the mouths and the noses to see where the damage is most severe. Got any explanations? An agent that acts on bodily fluids, particularly around the openings of a corpse? I hope the answer is too obvious to require me to point it out. Since it's probably not, I'll say it: "DECAY". The decomposing tissues release green substances and gas which make the skin green/blue and blistered, starting on the abdomen. The front of the body swells, the tongue may protrude and fluid from the lungs oozes out of the mouth and nostrils. Source: BBC Health The build up of gas resulting from the intense activity of the multiplying bacteria, creates pressure within the body. This pressure inflates the body and forces fluids out of cells and blood vessels and into the body cavity. Source: Stage 3: Putrefaction (warning: graphic) The appearance of "leather" is another side effect of decomposition: The other [unembalmed] bodies were becoming a rich sienna brown, an earthen color—"scorched" as the tissues broke down and fatty acids ran off into the soil. (Soil under a decomposing body is another subject of study.) The appearance of "melting" is likely another effect of decomposition, but I can't find anything that mentions it. It could be drying out, or possibly the exact opposite -- fluids shifting to places we wouldn't expect.

42 Robert, I guess our allies, the Brits, are lying about us. Although, I note you also link BBC. http://news.bbc.co. uk/2/hi/middle_east/4417024.stm?http://news.independent.co. uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece (TAKE OUT SPACES) I guess Jeff Englehart,lied too. "Jeff Englehart, described as a former US soldier who served in Falluja, tells of how he heard orders for white phosphorus to be deployed over military radio - and saw the results. "Burned bodies, burned women, burned children; white phosphorus kills indiscriminately... When it makes contact with skin, then it's absolutely irreversible damage, burning flesh to the bone," he says." I guess our allies, the Italians, are lying about us. Check out their new documentary. Apparently, we have also used MK 77, a new formulary of napalm, in Iraq. http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/foto/documento_ministero.jpg Who are you going to believe, the government or your own lying eyes?

43 I linked to the BBC, sure. I linked to a non-political article about the decomposition of corpses. I backed that up with citations from sources that are pretty clearly non-political. And, no, I don't believe Englehart -- he's an activist who has cause to lie. Same with the reporters behind the Italian story, which is pretty much the same story the Independent picked up. But, basically, it comes down to this: I cited scientific evidence debunking the claims made about WP and explaining the appearance of the corpses in those photos. You've refused the evidence, circling your claims back around to your original sources. I've done pretty much all I can. You're not interested in subjecting the hysterical claims to challenge, apparently. You could at least apologize for wasting my time.

44 Jeff Englehart is a proven liar. Damn, Greg, are you drunk? Go the The Daily Ablution, read the post and comments, and you will learn something. The problem, Greg, is just what was described earliar. You liberals will believe anything, no matter how stupid, if it will make the military look bad.

45 Robert, What of this? Apparently, we have also used MK 77, a new formulary of napalm, in Iraq. http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/foto/documento_ministero.jpg JJ, Go away.

46 So what if we did use napalm? No laws against it. Given the terrorists' habit of using civilians for cover, I wouldn't be surprised if innocent people were in the impact area. Go look up the laws of war; the people sheltering among civilians are the ones responsible for their deaths. Are you even going to apologize for wasting my time? I gotta agree with JJ: Liberals will believe anything that makes the US or the US military look bad. And they'll cling to that belief stronger than a fundamentalist clings to Genesis.

47 There are laws against napalm, but we are not a signatory.

48 We do use it against against certain targets. It is used to drive the enemy out of secure postions.

49 As we are not signatories, there is no law against using napalm. When are you going to apologize for wasting my time?

50 Robert, How adorable, you want an apology.

51 Yes, because you were wasting my time. You had no interest in facts, because you had already made up your mind and had no intention of reconsidering. Now I realize you're just a troll, so no apology is necessary.

52 I FUCK OF USA I´M FROM TURKAY AND A MOSLAM WELCOME IN THE REPUBLIC OF ISLAM!!! CHRIST MOTHERFUCKER

53 Hey thanks servet you just gave me and ever 50 comments so cool.

54 Brave servlet turkey from Turkey is too chicken to post his actual email. Darn.

55 Robert, Pure tender soul. I MADE you waste your time. I made you SLAVE. What would a real conservative say about that?

56 So, greg, found any good porn with little boys lately, or are you just going to take another sex tourism trip to Europe where you can bugger immigrant kids?

1 France Germany Belgium Denmark Sweden Britain Russia America What do these nations have in common? If anyone doesn't know already, I'm not wasting my time explaining it. Lock and load people of the civilized world; war is here, and the barbarian is at the gate.

2 Damn IM I hate it when I have a big old post of blips that were good and then they go off the great electro beyond. I'll try again later. Darn darn darn.

3 I always copy my posts before I clicky the "Post" button, then I laugh wickedly and flip off the computer screen.

4 Quote: "The terrorists are betting we canÂ’t put down the bag of chips and will wishful think our way strait to defeat. We can defeat the terrorists, no problem." We most certainly cannot defeat the terrorists, except by being a greater evil than they are. I think the terrorists have already seen that America is willing and able to blow up whoever and whatever it wants (civilians included) to get to them, and they're counting on it to bolster their ranks and increase their popularity. Both sides of this conflict love to engage in speech-giving, chest-beating and flag-waving. It's a matter of pride. Both sides are driven by pride and false ideals of what they think the world should be like. Both think civilian losses are acceptable to achieve their goal. Both think their goals can be acheived by way of military resistance. Both sides are aversed to combating evil through education. Just for fun toss in the fact that one side also has the unbridled capacity to cause destruction (by way of vastly superior military might). What's so sad in all this is that the so-called "civilized world" has yet to realize that they cannot win, no matter what their military might. Neither side can win. The reality of the matter is that we are all losing. The best course of action to adopt is one of humility. I hear lots of talk of sacrifice from both sides, but who'll be first to sacrifice their pride? There is no easy course of action to take here and every choice will result in loss of life. But, the path with the best chances of success is NOT the path we're pursuing right now. Again, this is a war neither side can win. It can ONLY lead to more devastation. Every battle you think you've won will actually have inspired a new generation of terrorists. And every victory they think they've won will only result in more bombs being chucked their way. Along the way both sides will have grown so accustomed to killing that civlization will be dead, that is, devoid of all humanity. There will be nothing to save. (Some might argue we're already in such a state). For all the Hollywood-inspired speech-giving that Bush can be credited with, for all the talk of peace, justice and freedom, there is really nothing to be left worth preserving. Every innocent life taken is costing us all of humanity. Quote: "because the truth is just so inconvenient." I think this is the very plain truth. Determination to overpower and military might are irrelevant. This war cannot be won. It may at some point even appear to be won, but in reality, the seeds for an even greater conflict will have been sown. The age of victory by war is over.

5 Nice speech. A little excessive on the drama, but...

6 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

7 Route Irish, http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1350838/i/kissmyass_0001.jpg

8 Go away Route Irish...your links are boring and so are you.

9 Every innocent life taken is costing us all of humanity. After that speech, I only have one question: Imp: when is the day you talk about going to arrive? I find myself daydreaming about it daily.

10 Of all the appeasement bullshit I have ever seen or heard, the piece by Mirza, obviously a Muslim and a fifth columnist, takes the cake. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit! Please excuse the language, but nothing else seemed appropriate.

11 I want mirza and all other adherents of the pedophle mohammed, (scalding bacon grease upon him), to know this: The day will come when the civilized men of the world will stop being civilized. There is coming a Reckoning, and the toll shall be heavy. If any of you survive on our soil, it will be a miracle.

12 Sohail Mirza: Are you fucking nuts? Or just another raghead. Which is the same as being fucking nuts. Do you goat buggerers actually believe we will lose this war before ridding the world of the muslim menance? Muslim assholes are getting closer to their 72 virgins and one camel (their preferred lovers) everyday. Someday, and I hope soon civilization will realize where muslim terrorists come from. I already know. FROM OTHER MUSLIMS. So the solution should be obvious.

13 Is anyone in France armed with a firearm, including the police, and if armed, why are they afraid to use them? Does anyone out there from France or anywhere else have an answer to this question?

14 The only experience the French have with firearms is when they saw Germans and Americans using them for purposes indecipherable to the French; i.e., fighting.

15 http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodli.asp?DeptNo=5000&ClassNo=0502

16 It's obvious no rational discussion can be had here. Expecting to find reason and rationality, I instead find blind hatred and lack of understanding. I should have expected that racism would be a popular tool for the illiterate. Far be it for me to expect the "civilized" netizens to rise above the same language and hatred spewed by their opponents. jesusland: I don't know what a "fifth columnist" is, but I'm not a journalist of any sort. greyrooster: I'm not saying the western nations will lose the war. Did you actually read what I wrote? Everyone loses. Both sides are utterly obstinate in the face of the rational conclusion that this conflict is not resolvable by means of war. I.e. the war will continue to escalate, spurred on by racism, hatred, mostly fear, and will inevitably end in a major disaster that will affect the entire globe.... err, that means you as well. Do you know what an end-game scenario is? Well that's what the current global climate is playing out to as long as this war is being fed unendingly by both parties involved. By the way, what's a raghead? A rag is something you blow your nose into or some such. I believe you're referring to a turban, which is a piece of cloth used to cover the head out of respect. You'll take care to note that across time in all major civilizations, the covering of the head has been considered a privilege, a right, or an honour, depending on where one is. The Native chieftans wear headresses. The kings of old wore crowns. Well culturally, some Muslims cover their heads because we believe that privilege of respect has been extended to all men and women, not just leaders of tribes or nations. You should take care to note that not even 50-60 yrs ago in North America, you wouldn't catch a self-respecting man on the street without a hat (i.e. a head-covering). If the principle has existed in such a variety of societies and across such a span of time, why single out one nation, one culture for covering the head? Improbulus: Please take your rose-coloured glasses off. The men you take to be "civilized men" are no better than the extremists of today. They have committed their share of crimes, and perpetuated their share of injustice... perhaps more than any other civilization in the history of the world. They simply have created a legal infrastructure that allows them to carry on with impunity, and bred a populace so fat from its own prosperity and so proud of its own accomplishment that it fails to notice. They misuse the moniker of "civilization". No nation before this western civilization has had the capacity and wealth to either save or destroy all of humanity, and here you are, egging us on to destroy it. Bravo. We shall see what this civilized nation will do. Civilized nation indeed... and what you refer to as "our soil", that wouldn't be the soil you took from the people that inhabited it before you, would it? That wouldn't be the same soil where a nation was built upon the backs of slaves, would it? The same soil upon which now stands a country that is open and free enough to allow me to stay here? You should not have the gaul to be surprised if I am still here... instead you should be surprised you have not had everyone on this soil blown to kingdom come by now by way of your ignorance, arrogance, and sheer lunacy. You want to prove your civility? There's plenty of opportunity to do so! Go into a continent like Africa and do your best. It seems to be wonderously simple for this "coalition" to deploy 200,000 troops into a country like Iraq where you can claim you've done it all for the good of the people. If you want to prove your civility, then go forth and deploy 200,000 educators, scientists, engineers and labourers into Africa. See if for once you can build a continent instead of destroy it. Go, teach them and aid them in building hospitals, schools, roads, infrastructure, and such. Only if we do that can we dare call ourselves civilized. We're awesome at serving ourselves, but what about others? THAT would be the mark of civility. You call us servants of a paedophile? You cannot tarnish the history of that Prophet, or of Islam, or of that part of the world, just as you cannot tarnish the accomplishments of Western civilization with your barbarity. The very numbers you use in your day to day life are referred to as "Arabic" numerals... they were given to the Europeans by the Arabs. While Europe was in the dark ages, the Muslim world was progressing in all fields of study, from philosophy to biology to mathematics, to astronomy. While the Europeans were busy trying to manage their own floundering fiefdoms, ridden with the very same ignorance and arrogance you perpetuate today, the Muslims were advancing the world and civilization as a whole. They were the ones studying the works of the Greeks and the Romans, the knowledge that the Europeans inherited. Is that the legacy of a paedophile? It was Islam that brought peace and unity to the warring tribes of Arabia and turned it into an intellectual, academic, and economic powerhouse. Islam did this by uniting people, and encouraging them to help each other. Those are the hallmarks of any great civilization. Why don't you cite this portion of history, when you you're so quick to think you know the personal details of the man who sparked this movement? You know nothing other than how to repeat the same accusations that Orientalists have been making against Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for ages. The same baseless accusations. My religion teaches me to respect yours and to respect all men of God. Does yours teach you to hate me? Is that the mark of civility? If that Reckoning you speak of should befall us, it will befall ALL of us (all of humanity), and only by the hands of someone that thinks like you. While you'll be busy wishing death and destruction upon a portion of humanity, I and others like me will be helping all men, all people. History will remember us as the civilized ones, not you.

17 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10354108

18 You long winded piece of pig shit, all through history you have been nothing but sand snakes. When the oil's gone it's back to hearding goats and camels.

19 Those retards are so dead... Started rioting in Germany. Man, they're all gonna die. And if somehow the Muslims start rioting in Finland, suddenly all the rioters everywhere start disappearing.

20 ...and I'm not kidding. SuPo is very, very, very good at that.

21 "My religion teaches me to respect yours and to respect all men of GoD"-So says mirza. Then you need to convince the jihadists who have taken over your religion and declared war on the civilized world to stop. If the 'moderate' Muslims, and I'm not sure they exist, do not rid Islam of the extremists, then you have yourselves to blame for the hate being directed against you. When a religion tells its followers to kill anyone who doesn't believe in it, then how do you expect people about to be killed in the most violent of means(throat cut or beheaded)to feel? This seems barbaric to me, and I will resist it with every fiber of my soul. The ball is in your court, mirza.

22 Ajatollahs are almost as bad as medieval Popes. The only thing missing is a "cleansing of the faith" against protestant, non-conservative Muslims.

23 Pig: Sorry to be so long-winded. I'll try to make my replies shorter. It's a vice of mine. However, you stand on nothing but conjecture. Don't hate me because you have nothing substantial to challenge me with. Instead, why not make it a goal to seek truth? Or if you're bent on sticking to your attitude of arrogance, then put your money where your mouth is. Stop using the Arab numeric system, forsake all the knowledge and science you got from them. Will you go back to herding cow then? Do you prefer pride to humility? Of course, far be it for you to have learnt anything from a lowly Arab, right? How dare I suggest such a thing? You can deny history all you want, but you just make yourself seem ridiculously absurd. Every great civilization has accomplishments and made its mark on humanity, including the Muslim civilization. I agree on one point though, the Arabs are currently far too dependent on oil. They've essentially squandered their legacy of knowledge and intellectual pursuit, and have relied entirely on the wealth from one source. Unless they refocus their wealth on building infrastructure and on education, they'll really be in for it once the oil wells have gone dry. Anyways, I don't know why my comments have caused such furor here. If you have a better line of reasoning, then calmly present it and I'll listen. If you can imagine a scenario where we militarily beat the terrorists without becoming animals ourselves, I'd love to hear it. I guarantee though, I can come up with a more plausible scenario that leads to our mutual destruction. When you discuss though, try to be realistic. Every great civilization prior to this one ended. What makes us so sure this one is any different under the circumstances? It shows all same traits of decadence, ignorance, and arrogance that were contributing factors in the fall of the last great empire (the Romans). What makes us better? jesusland: Thanks for the coherent response! I largely agree, that the ball is in our court. What needs to be understood is that the only effective weapon against extremism is knowledge. Bombing and killing terrorists and the societies that harbour them will only produce more terrorists. There's simply no two ways about it. Thus, the only effective weapon is knowledge. Knowledge can be spread by educating people... the thing is, it takes longer than simply going in and trying to kill the terrorists. It doesn't look as good, politically, and is impossible to achieve in the 8 years alloted to any American president. In the long term, this is the only solution. When you educate a people, treat them like equals, help them to prosper, that's when we really win. That's what keeps extremism out of the hearts of those people. Remember, you cannot force democracy, nor can you force a way of life on anyone. You can only educate them. This is the goal and mission of my religious community (http://www.alislam.org/). What needs to be understood is that the religion of Islam in no way directs people to kill non-Muslims. Historically, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together for centuries in the Islamic empire. In some cases they even shared the same house of worship. It's very clearly stated in the Quran that "there is no compulsion in matters of faith" (Chapter 2, verse 257). So it's quite incorrect to think that the religion preaches hatred or violence in any way. The view of Islam is that God has established the difference between what is right and what is wrong, whether one accepts or rejects that is up to them. You and I have been granted total freedom of conscience and faith, and no one can take that from us. Instead of this just ideology though, what is happening right now around the globe is that extremism and ignorance have gotten a foothold in some societies. Uneducated, illiterate, or simply power-hungry peoples have been given an extremely violent and illogical (not to mention, factually incorrect) interpretation of Islam. They would use anything to advance their own purposes, Islam is just convenient for them. Of course, when you conveniently leave out the parts of the Quran that talk about only fighting defensively, you are obviously willing to twist the philosophy to say whatever it is you want it to. If you want to read about the peaceful message of Islam, there's a good article here: http://www.alislam.org/islam/islam-peaceful-religion.pdf (be careful, it's a PDF!) Again, the extremist attitude simply cannot be combated by way of military power. The only way to root out this ignorance is through education and patience. This is true willpower. We have to have the will to do things the right way, whether it costs us our lives or not. It will no doubt take time and money, and we may not profit, except by measure of human life and civility. We will need to change our goals and perceptions. Pursuing this course of action will require us to sacrifice our own comfort at times. My only hope is that we aren't driven by insecurity and fear of death to commit the same atrocities against others and unwittingly give more people reason to adopt an extremist way of life. What we will inevitably be held to is our own belief and our own actions. If the terrorists keep pushing us, how far will we go? Are we afraid to die while pursuing a more correct, a more just course of action? Will we return every injustice of theirs with an injustice of our own? That's a no win situation, and that's what I'm trying to make clear here. Btw, I applaud your resistance and opposition to the barbaric injustices of the beheadings and such. I too resist it with every fibre of my soul. I would not hesitate to lay down my life in combat if I thought it would help to achieve a peaceful end, but instead I believe my life, wealth, and time are better spent in securing a more long-term solution, one that involves educating and englightening. Crucial to all this is that we not lose our own humanity, and not lose ourselves to anger and fear. Pig: sorry to be long winded again

24 I'd like to read that, but since either the text or the background are always bright white, so my eyes go sore if I read that much at once... Could you please summarize and post the long story short?

25 The paragrah that starts with"Instead of this just ideology though, what is happening right now around the globe..." is what we fight. You cannot reason with these people. They cannot be educated to accept the concept of all people "just getting along". What would you have us do? Sit back, get picked off and slaughtered one by one as we try to teach their children? You're being unrealistic. It all sounds like pretty flowers and chocolate rivers to preach peace and love, but someone has to fight them on the only terms they'll accept. Do you really think any of us WANTS war just for the sake of war?

26 Mirza, I fully agree with what you say in the sense that this is what the Koran should say. But, alas, it does not. There are Sura after Sura that demand that the others be killed, taxed, or converted. The infidel is to be killed and you are to plunder his wealth. Sorry, I didn't make that up. I am of the opinion that Islam will not be compatible with the modern world until it is remade. Perhaps you are the one to do just that. I pray so, because I do feel this has to stop somewhere. Please don't take everyone too serious here, it is a place to come and blow off steam and get rid of frustrations.

27 Finn: The short of it is that I think waging this war is untenable, inequitable and will ultimately not produce peace. The Muslim world is rife with ignorance and barbarity, and it is a challenge upon us that we should approach this problem with humanity and rationality. Oyster: They most certainly can be educated. It's in our best interests and is the only viable solution. It's the only way to breed long term peace. Alternately we can remain naive and believe that our will is greater than theirs and we can be warring for decades upon decades. If we choose to take a more peaceful approach, no doubt we'll lose some lives along the way, but that, by any measure, is what a true martyr is. Unfortunately, it is sometimes the cost of pursuing the most humane, just and rational course of action. For example, sending 100 troops on the ground to sweep a hostile location with concern for civilian life is more just than bombing indisciminately. It's certain more soldiers would be at risk, some may die, but that's a cost we should accept for the preservation of innocent life. That's what it means to say that the life of someone else is equal to my life. Their worth is equal to mine. That's what true sacrifice and willpower are. We should not fear death. We should acknowledge that doing the right thing sometimes costs lives. If I die while we pursue a just course of action, I would consider that a worthwhile trade. It would be sad, we would hope it could be avoided, but in the end life is worth nothing unless it's lived for the right reasons. Mind you, I'm a regular guy! I pay my taxes, go to work, take out the garbage, et al, it's just that I'm willing to die to do the right thing. I think as a society we need to free ourselves of our fear of death. War is simply our reaction when we are too afraid to do the right thing. I'm not saying we should throw away our lives, or that we should let ourselves get picked off one by one, but if we really are concerned with acheiving long term peace, then we need to accept that there will be some sacrifice. Right now we're fighting a war neither side can win. Both believe the other side is weak and will give up, and in reality, neither will. That leaves only one choice... pull out/ramp down and pursue an alternate solution. jesusland: There is no need to remake Islam as the Holy Quran is quite nicely preserved. The killing, taxing, and converting... these are popular accusations, but either misunderstood or simply false. For example, on killing: [2:191] And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors. [2:192] And slay these transgressors wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than slaying. And fight them not in and near the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them. Such is the requital for the disbelievers. The view on killing is quite clearly laid out. Fight only when you are fought against, but don't exceed the bounds laid out. Drive them out from where your oppressors have driven you out. Fighting is allowed anywhere except near the Sacred Mosque, unless they engage you there first. [60:9] Allah forbids you not, respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you forth from your homes, that you be kind to them and act equitably towards them; surely Allah loves those who are equitable. Except for those who fight against you and who have driven you out from your homes, we are encouraged to be kind and equitable to all people. Here's the verse in particular that I believe you were referring to: [9:29] Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favor and acknowledge their subjection. That seems pretty heavy, until you understand it in the correct context. The Quran, like any other religious text, is a book for people of understanding who will reflect upon its wisdom. If you lack wisdom, as most Muslim societies around the world do today, you end up misinterpreting the rules laid out. This verse was revealed at a time when Muslims and non-Muslims were still at war. The Muslims still permitted the non-Muslims to stay within their territory, but they had to pay a tax and "acknowledge their subjection", meaning they had to accept that where they lived was governed by Muslims and they were not allowed to cause disorder. To put it into perspective, the tax levied on Muslims (called 'Zakat') was actually heavier, and the Muslims were obligated to military service, from which non-Muslims were exempt. To contrast... today we pay taxes and receive benefits. We get infrastructure, security, and all the privileges we are due. Those non-Muslims got the same thing. They were taxed to enjoy the same benefits of security and infrastructure as the Muslims, but at a lower rate than the Muslims themselves. They had to accept that they were living under a Muslim government and pay their dues. I hope you can see that your statements clearly misrepresent Islam. Islam does not need to be "remade", rather it needs to be implemented. These teachings are founded in wisdom and served early Islamic society for centuries. They still serve today when they are implemented correctly, and I openly use my religious community as an example. We hold hard and fast to these teachings, and we now number almost 200 million. That's 200 million people who understand that war cannot bring about peace anymore, but instead want to serve mankind. We do just that throughout impoverished Africa, India, Pakistan, USA and just about everywhere else. We are Muslim and we are most certainly a part of the modern world. We are Nobel laureates, diplomats, doctors, engineers, judges, lawyers, humanitarians, homemakers, etc. See, it's not about pretty flowers and chocolate rivers, it's not a fantasy... changing the world peacefully is entirely possible, and is in fact incumbent upon us. It's the only road to lasting peace and prosperity anymore. I stand by my original claim, war will not resolve this current conflict.

28 Can anyone summarize what Sohail Mirza is saying for me. I'm not about to scroll thru someone's thesis unless I get paid for it.

29 jesusland: One more quote, in case it isn't evident that Islam encourages peace. [8:62] And if they incline towards peace, incline thou also towards it, and put thy trust in Allah. Surely, it is He Who is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. When at war, if your opponent ends hostilities or offers a ceasefire, you are mandated to accept it. This verse highlights that war in Islam is only allowed defensively. I hope this also illuminates the true nature of Islam for you.

30 As I said, I don't doubt your sincerity, or your interpretation of the Koran, but it is how the extremists interpret the Koran that is the problem. The Salafist interpretation, now prevalent in mosques around the world, uses the same Suras that you quote and comes to an entirely different conclusion. I can tell you are an educated man, Mirza, and I can see you have a grave concern for what is happening, so that is why I hope you will turn your energies to convincing the radical among the faithful of Islam. That would indeed take a miracle from God.

31 Sahail gives me hope that his interpretation may win out.

32 Mirza: There is an intelligent, more truthful reply to very piece of bullshit you write. But who the hell wants to spend that much time with a raghead. While you proclaim the greatness of the gutter religion, Islam the fact that all you creeps either leave or wish to leave the stinking muslim countries is prove enough for me. Yea, Sure. You left your shithole because it was a better place.

33 I just want to say that Sohail's the man....any of you guys wanna piece of him...means you wanna a piece of me....capisce??

34 And I'm christian too ....Blam!!

35 greyrooster: I'd be very happy to hear your intelligent, more truthful reply. I'm sorry you don't like "ragheads", but that's more your problem than mine. Now, if I'm not Arab, does that still make me a raghead? What if my head-covering is made of shaped wool instead of a simple cotton cloth? Is that better or worse? If I wear a fedora, does that still make me a raghead? Curious... But it is true, many people from all over the world want to come to the West for greater opportunities in business, education, etc. There are certainly greater opportunities for those in this part of the world. Now, that's not the reason I'm here. I was actually born in this hemisphere. In fact, I'd actually be more out of place in an eastern country than here. Of course there's also the fact that religious intolerance drove most members of my religious denomination out of our homelands. The tolerance one finds in North America is probably unmatched the world over. So actually, greyrooster, you're more like the Saudis than I am! Many of them are as racist towards non-Arabs as you are towards me! Ironic, eh? jesusland and Howie: I have the greatest faith in my interpretation of Islam, and it empowers me to help change the world in what small way I can. I believe it is founded in truth and rationality, unlike that Salafist interpretation. That interpretation, because it is false, will fade away into obsolecense when countered with intelligence, rationale, and educated masses. If countered with war, it will become a cause championed by uneducated and ignorant masses everywhere. Believe me, we really are trying to root out the extremist element from the Islamic world. Likewise I hope the extremist element in America can also be rooted out before both sides send all of civilization head-first into a world war. I am of the opinion that the terrorists and warhawks may be escalating us to nuclear war, but I hope that will not really come to pass. If it does, then not only do we all lose, but we all lose in the worst possible way. Peace is not an 8 year goal for one president. It has to be built upon a fundamental shift in social thought, one that drives civilization to no longer fear doing the right thing. It means having the will to give up wealth, comfort, pride and time to engage ourselves in actively building a better future. It is not a job for one military, one demographic, or one people. It will require unity, patience, resolve, and decades of effort. This is why I feel obligated to engage in discourse regarding alternate, more peaceful solutions. Thanks to both of you for maintaining a positive attitude towards this discussion. Luvmaster: rofl! Oh man, you met my laughter quota for the rest of the month! Thanks!

36 Lost Verses of the Koran Surah 115: The Pig Bismillah: The hurried flight of the Hegira had led the Muslims to a fertile oasis, where they were at last safe from their many enemies in Mecca. Pausing, each thanked Allah the moon-god for their good fortune. Assembling at a long table, they enjoyed rare delicacies brought by bare-breasted sirens whose faces were veiled. During the feast Muhammad sternly forbade his disciples to partake of pig flesh, while fondling the youthful breasts of a Nubian girl named Sheba. Obeying the Prophet, the pilgrims partook of the succulent flesh of jackals and vultures, washing their food down with strong wine. “I never dreamed I’d have to eat the loins of a jackal, let alone the bitter entrails of a cursed vulture,” observed a hungry pilgrim named Ahmed to a fellow Muslim, choking on the unpalatable morsels. “Neither did I, but the Holy Prophet has ordered it,” grumbled another starving follower, almost heaving as he consumed greasy vulture flesh. “A rancid pork chop would taste a hell of a lot better than this crap does,” retorted Ahmed. “It’s an acquired taste brother, you’ll get used to it,” spoke up another, smiling with a mouthful of rotten teeth. “I don’t think so,” said Ahmed, forcing down a burned jackal testicle. An uncaring Muhammad, famished, greedily wolfed down roasted jackal in enjoyment, quaffing from an earthenware wine carafe on occasion, while choosing which of the sirens that would soon endure his favors. The meal finished in the late afternoon, a drunken, lustful Muhammad initiated a sex orgy with the sirens, the debauched Holy Prophet, Allah speaking through him, declaring all earlier betrothals or marriages of the women he knew null and void. The Muslims celebrated their good fortune, again thanking Allah for the bounty they had been blessed to receive. Later, as Muhammad sat half-naked under a palm tree, masturbating to the thought of molesting little girls, Ahmed chanced by and remarked, "Oh great prophet, why does Allah say that we cannot dine on delicious porcine flesh?" "Why?" asked Muhammad, closing his filthy, tattered, moth-eaten robe, "Because Allah's younger retarded cyclops brother is a pig, and Allah doesn't want us killing his holy kinfolk." "Allah is a pig?" asked Ahmed, staring at Muhammad. "Of course," replied the deranged Prophet, hallucinating thanks to ingesting strong hashish minutes earlier. "That's ridiculous, why in hell do we worship pigs?" asked Ahmed, thinking his flight from Mecca may have been the result of heeding the words of a false prophet, possessed of a capricious desert demon who delighted in seeing them consume the flesh of vermin. "Because they're better than we are," answered a smiling Muhammad, now fantasizing about raping little boys, "Look at me, I'm little more than a lecherous child molester, thief and murderer!" "True, but pigs can't even talk!" exclaimed Ahmed, digging a heel into the sand. "Allah can, he speaks to me in my dreams," retorted the wildly hallucinating Muhammad, barely able to focus on Ahmed, seeing him in double vision. "You're a madman," declared a disgusted Ahmed, "I'm heading back to join the infidels in Mecca!" "Who cares?" retorted Muhammad, slurring his words and breaking into riotous laughter. Prophet Muhammad, opening his robe and again reaching for his flaccid sex organ, was too occupied with masturbating his building erection to reply further, while Ahmed disappeared behind a sand dune. "What a stupid, perverted, licentious bastard," spat Ahmed, walking off, "Muhammad is crazier than a shithouse rat!" Surah 116: The Pervert Bismillah: And it came to pass that Muhammad was growing ever hornier and more depraved: In a dream it was revealed by Allah that he was to molest a young girl named Ayesha. Drunk on strong wine, the Prophet looked to a follower named Khalil and announced, “Allah has said I am to have sex on this day with a child; the virgin daughter of my brother in law Abu.” “What?” asked a frowning Khalil, holding a wine bottle, taken back by the remark and turning to Muhammad. “I am to know Abu’s daughter Ayesha,” declared Muhammad, a finger in the air, becoming visibly aroused at the thought having sex with her. “She is but a little girl who plays with dolls; her womb does not yet weep, are you insane?” asked Khalil, knowing in his heart that the Prophet was little more than a pervert, thief, liar and murderer. “Probably, but it is the will of Allah”, Muhammad said to himself, staggering off to the hovel of Ayesha. “What a twisted devil the Prophet is – the will of Allah my ass, he’s just an evil, depraved monster who lusts after the flesh,” Khalil mumbled, putting the bottle to his parched lips. An oblivious and uncaring Muhammad blundered down the street, weaving as he went, arriving at the hovel shortly thereafter. Knocking on the door, Ayesha’s mother Umm appeared. “What do you want Prophet?” she asked, staring at the debauched Muhammad, clad in a filthy tan robe covered in dust and wine stains, a lone flea crawling upon his moustache near his nostrils. “Bismillah, I am here to take your daughter Ayesha in bed,” the Prophet answered, slurring his words. “You licentious beast!” exclaimed the girl’s mother, “She is only six years old, if it is indeed the will of Allah, take me instead to satisfy your wanton depravity!” “Taking you is not the will of Allah,” retorted Muhammad, the scent of wine heavy on his foul breath, “You are a wrinkled and faded flower without comeliness; be gone with your favors; I could never get a hard on at the likes of you.” Enraged by her rebuff, Muhammad smote her upon the face with a backhand. “That’s what one gets for disobeying the will of Allah,” declared Muhammad, his words punctuated by a loud belch, “Take me to Ayesha, that I may know her on this day!” Obeying, Umm reluctantly led Muhammad to the room of Ayesha, opening the door. “This perverted Prophet here wants to screw you,” announced Umm with a frown, Muhammad ogling the virgin child in double vision. “But you knew my cousin Abdullah, younger brother of Ahmed not an hour ago,” replied a shocked Ayesha, dropping her doll, revolted by the sight of the filthy, lascivious pedophile Muhammad. “Be that as it may, Allah has said I will also know you,” said Muhammad with an expectant smile, the gleam of lust in his eyes. “Why me?” asked Ayesha, looking to the Prophet with trepidation. “Because Allah has said it and I am horny, let us lay down, that I may know you,” ordered Muhammad as he removed his robe, Ayesha’s mother shaking her head in helpless disgust and closing the door. Surah 117: The Murderer Bismillah: Muhammad and his followers enjoyed many days away from Mecca at the oasis, home of his oafish brother in law, Abu Bakr, who was also Muslim. Dining on roast jackal, vultures and snakes, their strength was renewed by the bounty Allah the moon-god provided: plentiful food for their bellies and plentiful sirens for their carnal pleasure. Khalil was upset that the Prophet was an evil lecherous pedophile who had known a little girl, so he went to the home of Ayesha to speak with her father, Abu the oaf. He made his way to the hovel, and knocked on the door. Ayesha’s mother opened the door, frowning as she beheld another of Prophet Muhammad’s followers. “Is life not bad enough, what are you here for, to rape my daughter, me, or one of my sons?” she inquired with disdain. “Indeed not woman, I must speak with your husband, not you,” said Khalil, who as a good Muslim, looked down upon women as little more than objects of pleasure, or dogs to be beaten into submission. “My husband Abu is very drunk,” she related, lowering her gaze in respect. Khalil entering the hovel, the oaf Abu appeared from a side room holding a wine bottle, and slurred, “What do want here, follower of the Prophet?” “I must speak with you regarding your little daughter Ayesha,” answered Khalil. “What about her?” asked Abu, blinking his eyes and trying to focus on the man. “The Prophet came unto her in her room a fortnight ago; do you not know?” asked Khalil. “He has come unto her many times since, she is his wife,” replied the unconcerned oaf. “His wife you say - you permitted it?” asked Khalil, stunned by the revelation. “Of course; he has come unto one of my nephews too, Muhammad is a pederast, it is the will of Allah,” declared a shrugging Abu. “He’s raping our child you drunken bastard!” exclaimed a tearful Umm, looking to Khalil. Abu smote her across the face, admonishing, “Take care woman, speak not ill of Prophet Muhammad, it is the will of Allah. The Prophet first knew Ayesha in a dream, when Gabriel showed her to him, uncovering her body for him to see.” “That’s really sick, she’s only six years old,” observed Khalil. “Better for the great Prophet to know her than one of the infidels,” declared a smiling Abu. “Prophet my ass, Muhammad is a depraved monster possessed of a demon; how could permit such a thing, you are her father!” exclaimed Khalil in utter disgust. “Yes I am, and the Prophet says I will know her too,” confessed Abu, contemplating the odd thought of having sex with his own daughter. Umm burst into tears and sobbed, throwing herself to the floor upon hearing Abu’s repugnant words. A fearful Khalil fled the hovel, not knowing what to think; realizing Muhammad and his brother in law Abu were wicked licentious perverts and vicious rapers of children, possessed of capricious and malevolent demons. Later, Abu spoke with the Prophet while they entered a brothel together. He told him of the strange encounter with Khalil. Khalil’s an idiot, he takes Islam much too seriously,” replied Muhammad, looking to his oafish brother in law. “It is a bad omen Prophet, Khalil woefully disdains your marriage to Ayesha, and disdains that I am to know her too,” declared Abu, even he feeling deep down that such a liaison was distasteful, but knowing it was the unalterable will of Allah, the moon god. “It is the will of Allah for you to know your daughter, did not Lot of Sodom know his daughters in the cave?” asked a slurring Muhammad, quite drunk, leaning against a wall to steady himself. “Yes Prophet, he did,” answered Abu with firm resolve. “Indeed, it was and is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad, picking a flea from his beard and crushing it between his fingernails, “As for our problem, I will have a dream tonight, and Allah will order me to kill Khalil.” “He will?” asked Abu, putting a hand to his chin in confusion, “But I thought the Perfect, Most Merciful Pig Allah never revealed his intentions until you had a dream.” “No matter oaf, he is making his will known to me by making me drink strong wine on this day,” said a quickly lying Muhammad, holding up a bottle. “Don’t you drink strong wine everyday?” asked Abu. “Not as strong as this stuff,” replied the Prophet with a broad smile, “It has hashish oil in it; let us partake of a pair of this brothel’s women and enjoy wine together.” As Muhammad and Abu descended into more revelry and debauchery, a troubled Khalil approached another of the Prophet’s followers, the one with rotten teeth. Telling him of his woes, he awaited the reply. “Who cares what he does, have vulture and some wine,” said the man, tearing a leg from a roasted, maggot-ridden carcass and offering it to Khalil. “You don’t care that Muhammad is a deranged pervert who has sex with little children?” asked Khalil, taking the leg. “Hell no, I’m only here for the food, I was starving in the alleys of Mecca before I met Muhammad,” replied the rotten toothed man, grabbing more vulture flesh and a wine bottle. “Oh,” answered a defeated Khalil, taking a bite from the leg and reaching for wine. Late evening came, with Khalil and the other followers drunk and passed out in their tent. Muhammad and Abu awoke at the brothel after midnight, rested and refreshed. “What are we to do about Khalil?” asked Abu as they left via a side door, avoiding an encounter with the brothel’s madam, to whom they owed money. “Leave that to me oaf,” answered the Prophet, holding up a hand, “In my dream Allah told me how to deal with him.” Muhammad headed down the street and stealthily entered the tent of his followers, intent on taking Khalil’s life. Abu Bakr followed him through the entrance, looking about for possible witnesses. Holding an oiled leather garrote, the smiling Prophet mercilessly strangled the sleeping Khalil, knowing in his heart that it was the will of Allah. The helpless follower struggled defiantly as a determined Muhammad gritted his teeth and pulled the garrote tighter, crushing Khalil’s windpipe, the Prophet letting out foul gas from his posterior due to the exertion. The struggling ceased; he and Abu then quietly removed the body from the tent and carried it into the desert. “That takes care of that problem,” declared a satisfied Muhammad as he pocketed the garrote, he and Abu making their way to his hovel so he could know his young wife Ayesha again. “When will I know her Prophet?” inquired Abu in the lamplit hovel, looking to his daughter’s room. “Very soon, Allah has said it, go know your wife Umm for now, oaf,” suggested Muhammad with a smile, opening the door to Ayesha’s room. Surah 118: The Liar Bismillah: Time passed, and a strengthened Muhammad and his followers left the fertile oasis. The Prophet was joined by his young wife Ayesha and her father, oaf Abu, who left the remainder of his family stranded at the oasis, his wife Umm dying of grief shortly afterward. Not one of the party dared question the vanishing of Khalil, some fearing that they too would vanish, perhaps due to Allah’s will or worse. Muhammad told his followers that Khalil was an evil infidel, and had fled because he had coveted Ayesha, the child looking to her husband the Prophet, she and her father knowing he was not telling the truth. “That is not true my father, Khalil only came to tell you of the Prophet knowing me,” Ayesha whispered, she and Abu standing only a few cubits from Muhammad. “Take care in what you utter among others child, some things are better kept to oneself,” answered Abu quietly, not half the oaf the Prophet thought he was. The rotten toothed man was listening intently; he had watched from the shadows while a smiling Muhammad strangled Khalil, but wisely kept this knowledge to himself, vowing to flee the group at the earliest opportunity. Abu Bakr, fulfilling the will of Allah, came unto his daughter Ayesha over several evenings in a tent at the beckoning of the Holy Prophet, oddly finding her favors more satisfying than those of his wife. Feeling strange from the experience of knowing his own daughter, a troubled Abu sought wise Muhammad’s advice. “It was the will of Allah,” declared the debauched Muhammad, drunk on strong wine, “Allah has also revealed it is you which will sire her firstborn in her twelfth year; her incestuous bastard child Fatimah.” “I will?” asked Abu, incredulous that he would be siring a child by his own daughter. “Yes,” replied the Prophet, removing his filthy robe, “But first I must satisfy my carnal urges, by indulging in her favors myself.” Prophet Muhammad entered the tent and came unto the young Ayesha, who complained that she was sore from knowing her father three times in one day. Striking her across the face, Muhammad admonished, “Keep your mouth shut wife and be thankful to Allah that only I and your father are knowing you.” “Yes Holy Prophet,” Ayesha replied, closing her eyes and wincing in pain as Muhammad again knew her. Arriving in Medina the following week, the Muslims found friends in this city, delighting in drunken revelry and the favors of veiled, tempting harlots with dark eyes. A lecherous Muhammad, Ayesha and his brother in law Abu took up residence at a fine brothel, the Prophet and the oaf sampling the offerings over many weeks, finding that Medina had the finest of all harlots in the land. Many residents of Medina found that Islam was a faith that appealed to them, Allah’s unalterable will moving the people, they abandoning their staid ways, joining with Prophet Muhammad in idleness, licentious revelry and drunkenness. Abu later visited the Prophet in his tent, informing him of dreadful news that Medina was host to a band of Jews. “Jews you say, the people of the book,” answered Muhammad, “They are bitter enemies of Allah and Islam; we will not suffer such people to live in our midst.” “But there are 40 score or more of them in the city Prophet, do the warriors of Allah have the numbers to defeat them?” asked Abu. “Of course oaf,” declared the evil Muhammad, “We shall wait until the dark of night, prowling by stealth, and then cut their throats as they slumber; Allah has willed it.” Listening in the shadows, the rotten toothed man determined it was time for him to flee. Regardless of the free food, he wanted no part of a group of vicious, skulking cowards who would slaughter people as they slept. Allah’s will was fulfilled on the next night, 40 score Jews meeting their end at the hands of the deranged, murderous pedophile Muhammad and his obedient Muslims. Surah 119: The Thief Bismillah: A fortnight passed, with many of the remaining people of Medina embracing Islam, and others fleeing for their lives, with the exception of a wealthy merchant named Sabri and his family. Sabri vexed the followers with his words that Prophet Muhammad was little more than a drunken liar, murderer, and wanton sexual pervert; a wicked, lascivious monster and pedophile who kept the company of prostitutes, drunks and the slothful. In another dream, the Holy Prophet learned that the vexing merchant had to be silenced, and that he had been chosen by Allah to murder him. Telling Abu of his dream, he and Abu plotted the murder of Sabri the merchant. After enjoying strong wine together, they headed to his home on a dark late evening, let in by a lovely servant girl. Muhammad and the oaf Abu observed the opulence of his residence; Sabri dressed in a fine silk robe with a silk turban, seven rings of gold and silver on his fingers. His wife and the lovely servant girl brought food and a carafe of wine for her husband, they disdainfully looking upon the filthy, debauched Prophet and his henchman Abu. “Why will you not submit to Islam, it is the will of Allah,” declared the evil Muhammad, looking to Sabri, looking for the chance to end his life. “The will of Allah my ass, you Muhammad are a murderous debauched lecher and raper of children. Your loathsome followers feed on the rancid flesh of vermin instead of fine pork roasts, and defile all that they touch,” declared a disgusted Sabri, noting that the Prophet was drunk, dressed in a filthy tattered robe, with his unkempt hair and long beard matted with dirt. “I consume the flesh of vermin too, Great Allah is a Holy, Merciful Pig, it is not halal to dine on the sacred flesh of his younger brothers,” said Muhammad with a finger in the air, Abu nodding in agreement. “No, it is you who are a pig, you deranged cretin possessed of a vile demon,” retorted Sabri, looking upon the Prophet with hatred in his eyes. “Those who do not submit to the will of Allah will suffer dire consequences,” threatened Abu, looking about for anyone who would dare stop them. Observing only two women in the house, he smiled, knowing that the will of Allah was about to be fulfilled. Sabri paused, staring at the Prophet and Abu in contempt, hoping he could in some way persuade them to leave the city, noting that business had fallen off to practically nothing since the arrival of the Muslims. “Look, if I give you money, will you and yours flee Medina and never return?” asked Sabri with folded hands, hoping he could encourage them to leave with a payment of fine gold. “I can’t leave,” declared a smiling Muhammad, “I am serving Great Allah, the Most Merciful Pig.” Sabri, confused for a moment, replied, “But I thought Allah was the moon goddess of Mecca.” “Whatever,” retorted a shrugging, uncaring Muhammad while picking his nose, he knowing that Allah didn’t exist anyway. “You are destroying Medina with your vile harlotry and wicked ways!” exclaimed Sabri. The Prophet laughed, and replied, “Indeed not, Allah is guiding my hand in this and all my actions, providing me and my followers with what we desire: food, fine drink and the company of willing sirens, like your lovely servant girl back there.” “My servant girl is betrothed to a good man in Mecca, you will not speak ill of her, nor will you covet her favors,” declared Sabri, noting Muhammad leering through an open door, ogling the girl and his wife. “I will do as I wish,” retorted the evil Muhammad with another laugh, reaching into his tattered, filthy robe and producing the garrote, “I covet the favors of your servant girl, and will take her to my bed for a concubine on this night. Those such as you will not stop the will of Allah or his Messenger.” Abu rose while the Prophet was speaking and smote Sabri upon the face with a closed fist, knocking the silk turban from his head. Muhammad descended upon him like a viper, pulling the garrote tightly around his throat, strangling him in his chair while his wife and servant girl screamed. “Be silent women, it is the will of Allah!” Muhammad yelled through gritted teeth as he took the life of Sabri. Oaf Abu moved into the room and beat them into submission while a struggling Sabri kicked the wine carafe from the table, it shattering on the floor. Sabri’s life vanquished, Prophet Muhammad exhaled loudly and let the lifeless body tumble to the floor. The trembling women remained silent as Abu returned to the Prophet with them. “Where is your money?” asked a greedy Abu of Sabri’s wife. “A box of gold and silver is in our bedroom,” answered his tearful wife, almost fainting from Abu’s foul breath. “I’ll get it,” volunteered a smiling Muhammad, pulling the garrote from the body, “Get the rings from his fingers oaf.” The Prophet returned with a box of glittering coins, pleased that Allah had provided such bounty for his followers. “I can’t get the last ring off,” complained Abu, having pocketed six others. “Cut off his finger to get it, and take his robe and turban too,” ordered Muhammad, determined not to leave one valuable item in the house. Abu obeyed, reaching for a knife on the table, slicing off the finger and pulling the ring from it. Arriving at the brothel, the Prophet celebrated his good fortune by knowing Sabri’s wife and the servant girl, annulling the widow’s marriage and the girl’s betrothal in the eyes of Allah. Later that evening Abu was given Sabri’s widow for a concubine, as he had grown weary of Ayesha’s favors, also needing an able slave to cook and serve him. Having to beat her before he knew her, Abu thanked Allah and Muhammad for the welcome gift of Sabri’s wife. Surah 120: The Hypocrite Bismillah: More time passed, with some of Muhammad’s followers finding the Prophet’s actions in Medina going against everything he had preached in Mecca, seeing him as Khalil, the rotten toothed man, and the merchant Sabri had seen him: an evil, debauched rapist, pedophile, liar, and murderer. These and other apostate followers were quickly slaughtered as infidels, fulfilling the will of Allah; a smiling Muhammad strangling many of them as they slept. Even Abu began to think that Muhammad’s wanton depravity may have been going too far when he encountered him in a tent knowing several young Jewish boys that had been taken captive. “Prophet, some of the followers are complaining that you are denying them participation in the bounty given us by Allah, and that you are also practicing strange acts that Allah has forbidden to others,” related Abu, frowning at the displeasing thought of Muhammad knowing little boys. “They want some of the gold, right oaf?” asked a drunken Muhammad, dressed in Sabri’s silk robe and turban, seven rings of gold and silver upon his greasy fingers, the fine garb growing filthier with each passing day. “That, and some of them would also like to have some of the girls and boys for concubines,” answered Abu. “They cannot have the little boys, Allah has given them to me for my carnal pleasure,” declared the lascivious Prophet, “As for the little girls, give them to the followers as wives, so that their carnal desires can be sated; it is the will of Allah.” “Others say that you don’t practice what you have preached,” added a fidgeting Abu, hoping not to arouse Muhammad’s maniacal wrath. “I’m only the messenger, Allah’s revelations don’t apply to me,” retorted Muhammad, releasing a tearful Jewish boy from his carnal embrace. “What about me?” asked Abu. “They don’t apply to you either oaf; would you like a lovely little boy for your carnal pleasure?” slurred the depraved sodomite Muhammad, lustfully leering at another boy he had chosen next to debauch. “No, I find not that boys appeal to me,” answered Abu quietly, though he was a lecherous pedophile and incestuous pervert, he had no desire to sodomize little boys. “Suit yourself oaf, more for me to enjoy,” answered the Prophet with a chuckle, undressing another captive boy, returning to his lecherous pederasty as Abu left the tent. The city of Medina had been taken completely by the conquering Muslims, they reveling in their murderous victory over the infidels and Jews. In another dream, it was revealed to Muhammad by Allah that they were to attack and conquer the city of Mecca. They were to subdue it and convert the inhabitants there to Islam, after which the Prophet was to take a pagan shrine called the Kaaba and defile it in the name of Allah. “In Mecca there is glittering plunder, fine gold to steal, and many women to be taken for concubines,” declared the Prophet, “Allah has said to have faith in him and we will not fail; are you with me, warriors for Islam?” The devoted followers answered, shouting in unison: There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his prophet!” “We will need weapons to defeat them,” Abu observed, looking to the Holy Prophet. “Easily done oaf,” replied an unconcerned Muhammad, ordering several henchmen to plunder the city of metal so weapons could be quickly fashioned. Bronze implements were seized from every home; plowshares were heated and beaten into fine scimitars for the devoted followers. As his followers labored over hot forges, Muhammad gave a sermon, declaring that vengeance, blood and death would rain down upon Mecca in the name of Allah. The work completed over several days, a feast was held by the warriors of Islam to further strengthen them for the long journey; the flesh of rats, snakes, vultures and jackals gracing their tables. The hungry Prophet had a willing siren prepare his favorite of all dishes, fat dung beetles boiled in seasoned vulture broth. “We should give Allah our thanks for the bounty he has provided,” declared Muhammad, seated at the head of his table beside Abu, crushing the hard shell of a dung beetle between his filthy brown teeth. All bowed their heads in prayer, thanking Allah for the food he had provided. “Would you like to enjoy a tasty dung beetle oaf?” asked the Prophet, turning to his brother in law, offering one to him. “No thanks,” replied a nauseated Abu, choking down a plateful of greasy rat flesh. Washing the unseemly morsels down with strong wine, Muhammad and his followers filled their bellies with the bitter flesh of vermin and then enjoyed the welcome favors of tempting, veiled harlots with dark eyes. The Muslims, their women and their captives set out for Mecca on the following week, determined to exact Allah’s revenge on the people who dwelt there. “There are many able men in Mecca, much more than we have,” observed Abu, realizing their numbers were wanting when compared to the teeming hordes of infidels occupying Mecca. “Allah will watch over us oaf,” replied Muhammad, a sharp scimitar on his hip, he unsure as to what the outcome would be, but keeping this from the others and preparing for the worst. “There aren’t enough of us Prophet – how will we win?” asked Abu with his arms in the air, looking at their limited numbers, no more than 50 score of able men in the service of Allah. “Great Allah has said it, they in Mecca will embrace Islam or die for resisting his will,” the vengeful Prophet declared as Medina disappeared behind them in the distance. A thoughtful Abu wondered why Allah would wish his followers to attack a fortified city where they were outnumbered, and also as to why Allah would have chosen a debauched murderer and licentious pervert for his Prophet. “Oh well, it is the will of Allah,” agreed a sardonic Abu, much too committed to the deranged Prophet and Islam to back out, checking for the scimitar on his hip. Surah 121: The Coward Bismillah: Returning to the oasis to gather strength before attacking Mecca, Muhammad and his followers again feasted on the bitter flesh of vermin and partook of the favors of eager women, the depraved Prophet coming unto the veiled, bare breasted Nubian harlot Sheba. Oaf Abu learned that his wife Umm had died, Muhammad stating to him over strong wine that it was Allah’s will. A grieving Abu came unto his new wife, the widow of Sabri, and also knew his daughter Ayesha, fulfilling the will of Allah the Pig. The Holy Prophet also lusted for Abu’s bride, demanding that he be permitted to lay with her again. A shrugging Abu handed her over, an angry Muhammad having to beat the stiff-necked infidel woman once again before he knew her. “You evil murderous beast!” she screamed in tears as Muhammad was knowing her, “May the gods of my fathers destroy you and all you have wrought!” “How dare you attempt to curse me or Allah,” grunted the Prophet as he reached orgasm, his fetid breath causing her to heave, “Take care woman, or I will expose you as the sorceress you are, giving you over to be stoned by my devoted followers.” “Better to be dead than to endure your vile attentions again,” Abu’s wife retorted as the Prophet rose from her bed. “Bitch,” Muhammad muttered as he left Abu’s tent, adjusting his filthy silk turban. Leaving the oasis on the third day, the devoted Muslims resumed their journey to Mecca, Abu still troubled about their limited numbers and telling the Holy Prophet of his doubts. “Don’t worry oaf, we will remain behind while the first wave of our brothers besiege and subdue the infidels in Mecca,” Muhammad declared in a low tone of voice, Ayesha looking up to him and frowning. “Do you have a problem with that wife?” asked Muhammad, strangely controlling his compulsion to beat her for daring to disagree with Allah’s unalterable will. Ayesha remained silent and looked to the ground, Abu answering, “I thought we would lead them in battle.” “No, we are to remain behind and observe the followers take the city, it is the will of Allah,” replied Muhammad, he filled with doubts and preferring to watch from afar, as the strong hashish he had eaten in Medina had worn off long ago. Arriving outside the city walls under cover of night, the Muslims prepared for battle in the only way they knew: skulking by stealth and murdering defenseless people while they slept. As a full moon rose, a vanguard of devoted followers scaled the city walls, only to be discovered and cut down by the defenders of Mecca. “Attack in the name of Allah!” shouted Muhammad while retreating to a bluff with Abu, his wives and several trusted followers, the Meccans opening the city gates to meet the glorious warriors of Allah in battle. Seeing the Holy Prophet on the bluff by moonlight, this sight strengthened the attacking Muslims. “The battle is not going very well,” observed Abu as the moon rose higher, watching the Muslim army being wiped out. “Yes, Allah is displeased that our faith was not strong enough,” replied a strangely detached Muhammad, staring from the bluff at the carnage outside the walls of Mecca. “That, or we didn’t have enough men, I told you,” retorted Abu, watching several followers being hacked to death by the defenders. “That is possible oaf,” admitted Muhammad, Abu frowning at the reply. “What do you plan to do to save your followers Prophet?” asked Ayesha. “Nothing, it is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad with a shrug, still watching the battle. Abu’s frown grew into anger as he watched a smiling Muhammad delight in the butchery of his followers. “You’ve lost at least 30 score since the moon rose, do you intend to stay until we are slaughtered too?” asked Abu’s wife. “How dare you speak to me unless spoken to!” exclaimed the Prophet, preparing to smite her across the face. “My good wife Fahimah makes a wise observation,” declared Abu, using her given name for the first time, grasping Muhammad’s forearm, preventing him from striking the widow. Pulling away from Abu, the Prophet paused and replied, “It’s time for us to leave oaf, we shall retreat to the oasis to pray and fast.” A defeated Muhammad and his trusted followers left the bluff and headed back toward the oasis in the moonlight. Looking over his shoulder, the Prophet feared that vengeful Meccans might pursue them. “Let us make haste,” declared Muhammad, fearing for his life. Several days passed as they retreated from Mecca, the remaining band of Muslims at last pausing for needed rest and making a camp in the desert. The captive Fahimah had grown to respect her new husband Abu, as he had prevented the Holy Prophet from striking her outside the walls of Mecca. Making him a meal of jackal flesh soup, she presented it to him in his tent. “Thank you woman,” Abu replied, taking an earthenware bowl and strong wine, she nodding and leaving him to eat. As Abu was eating, a stir rose in the camp: a lone survivor of the battle having at last caught up to the followers. Putting down his bowl, he left the tent to find the survivor admonishing Muhammad. “You coward,” he gasped, “You left us to die, have you no faith in your visions, or are they only lies coming from your vile mouth?” The Prophet, drunk, answered, “I had a dream after the battle, it was Allah’s will that we were defeated, as it was his will that you survived. We lost because our faith in Allah was not strong enough.” “You lied, telling us of easy plunder and women; there weren’t enough of us to take Mecca, 50 score died outside the gates for nothing!” the man exclaimed. “No matter, have dung beetles and strong wine to renew your strength,” slurred Muhammad, picking fleas from his beard and flinging them into a small fire at his side. The man, much too exhausted to argue further, gratefully took a plate of boiled dung beetles and a bottle of wine, trudging off from the deranged Prophet in disgust. A shocked Abu observed this from the shadows and retreated to his tent. Such knowledge set heavy upon him, he meditating privately on the events. Finishing his meal, he called for his wife Fahimah, she appearing before him. I would hear your words wife on this matter: Muhammad preaches Islam, yet he does not follow the words of Allah.” “He is your Prophet, you have sworn to serve him and Allah, my words are those of an infidel,” she answered respectfully. “Still I would hear them, for there is wisdom in what you utter,” Abu replied. Fahimah, still fearful of her brutal husband, yet bound by her personal honor to obey, told him of her thoughts on the Prophet and his actions. “I care not what god he worships, but this demon in man’s guise is not a prophet of a clean desert god,” she began. Abu looked at her as she continued, “He forces his followers to consume the flesh of vermin, delighting in their disgust. I truly believe him to be so perverted as to rape an infant - he has others carry out his murderous work while he has no courage to fight himself: you should draw a knife across your daughter Ayesha’s throat and my own to save us from the corruption of this man.” Abu, oaf that he was, looked at her silently as she urged him to destroy the demon Prophet Muhammad, her wise words much harder to ignore than the screechings of his deceased wife Umm.

1 thanks Howie, Im such an odd duck lately. Im so glad everybody knew me before this whole Yemen thing. But "special guest poster" is a very nice way to put it. tnx

2 You are new and special here and we get around on the net a bit. I can bestow on you any title you want today. Request?

3 a little below a yemeni guy called me a democracy majahdia. but just jane is fine too.

4 vladgondonpozornii

1 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/02/AR2005110200589.html

1 Thanks a lot for the links Howie. I appreciate it!

2 Yo, Howie thats all i got to say

3 Is jihadwatch.org down?

4 As to the LA Times article about Iraq being the same as Vietnam: It was refreshing to see a MSM report that correctly tells the public how we “lost” in Vietnam. Everyone seems to have forgotten that we had withdrawn and left the war in the Vietnamese’s hands, then cut them off. We did something somewhat similar in Iraq after the 1991 war. I’m amazed that we have the cooperation from the Iraqis that we now have. Had I been stabbed in the back as they had, I wouldn’t give the US any respect. President Bush has overcome that with his steadfastness in spite of the MSM and Left/Democratic attacks. However, I’m not so sure that a majority the American people would protest an abandonment of the Iraqis. I see the same thing happening as occurred during Vietnam. With the negative reporting from the media, the American people are being made to believe that the sacrifice is not worth the effort. Additionally, the Democrats are now trying to criminalize any action they can of any Bush Administration personnel to defeat the Republicans in the next election; then they can vote to cut the war funding as Senator Leahy and others want. These people have absolutely no survival instincts as it relates to America and its citizens. But I do. While historians believe only 1/3 of the colonists supported the War of Independence, the Declaration of Independence was still issued and states: “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence . . . .” The Declaration is part of the United States Code. Therefore, some might believe that we the people have the right and obligation to protect ourselves from a government that will not. The 2nd Amendment was justified on that basis. As Jefferson said, “In a nation governed by the people themselves, the possession of arms to defend their nation against usurpers within and without was deemed absolutely necessary.” Something for us and our leaders to think about.

5 Concerning the "Woman Sees Husband Off to Iraq, Gets Fired" story...here's Clark Galloway home number.....616) 891-1616 . I'm sure he'd like to hear from all the supporters out there

6 AMR: I'm with ya on all counts.

1 It really is "send a message" time. Perhaps the US/UK should start by eliminating all the Pali military camps in Bekaa. A few well placed assassinations and explosions in various headquarters could provide a hint of our displeasure.

2 I saw a quote once, where Iran said they were not intimidated by the threat of a United States Military response; indeed the quote was something to the effect that they had already analyzed our failures in Iraq. Of course Iran is basing our "military action" purely based on a the scenario of an invasion, and not a carpet bombing back to the stone age, I'm guessing their analysis did not include the "shock and awe" footage, nor did they realize the U.S did not even drop the second, nor first non-nuclear bomb in their inventory, nor deploy EMP based weapons. It is looking almost certain this will not be settled with diplomacy.

3 This is why I love Tony Blair. That was the perfect statement.

4 The call by Iran to destroy Israel is, sadly, not new. In 2001, Ali Akbar Rafsanjani, a former president, suggested that the Islamic world annihilate the Jewish state with nuclear weapons, an attack that he claimed would "just produce damages" to the perpetrator. And the elimination of Israel has been a constant theme of rallies organised by the regime. Nevertheless, the speech by President Ahmadinejad in Teheran on Wednesday was shocking. He told a conference entitled "The world without Zionism" that Israel should be "wiped off the map", and expressed no doubt that the latest wave of Palestinian terrorist attacks would soon remove "this disgraceful blot from the face of the Islamic world". Such remarks by a head of state about a fellow member of the UN are unprecedented. The nearest equivalent is China's refusal to renounce force in seeking reunification with Taiwan, a de facto sovereign entity; in July, one of its generals said his country was prepared to go to nuclear war with America over the island. Mr Ahmadinejad's speech has been condemned by, among others, the EU, at its Hampton Court summit yesterday, America, Australia, Canada and Russia. Shamefully, there has not been a squeak from the Arab world. Do Egypt, Jordan and Mauritania, all of which have recognised Israel, have no riposte to a president who rants that they will "burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury" for having established diplomatic relations with Israel? Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestnian leader, condemned Islamic Jihad's suicide bombing in the Israeli coastal town of Hadera, but has had nothing to say about an existential threat by Iran, one of the movement's sponsors, to a state with which he is trying to reach a final status solution. And there has likewise been silence from governments such as those of Morroco, Qatar and Tunisia, which have sought to strengthen links with Israel following its recent withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. Shimon Peres, who is a archetypal dove, has suggested that Iran be expelled from the UN. The proposal is pertinent. A member that calls for the destruction of another defies the purposes of the organisation's charter, and should be sanctioned by the Security Council. That body has seemed to court irrelevance over the past few years. It declined to grasp the nettle of Saddam's repeated challenges to its authority. It handed over North Korea's nuclear ambitions to six-party talks hosted by China. It has yet to take proper responsibility for a similar challenge posed by Iran, the issue remaining with the International Atomic Energy Agency, despite Teheran's cavalier attitude to repeated resolutions by the board of governers. Mr Ahmadinejad's speeches to the UN General Assembly last month and to the Teheran conference on Wednesday have richly confirmed his reputation as a hardline ex-Revolutionary Guard. If the Security Council fails to confront such a rogue head of state, it does not deserve its name.

5 Otocon, One shouldn't be too surprised by the president of Iran's remarks. After all, he was only repeating what most of the surrounding Arab states said when Israel was first established in 1948.

6 Will: The recently elected President of Iran, has proclaimed his country's nuclear ambitions to be entirely peaceful. Yet, following his mentor, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, he declares that "Israel should be wiped off the map". He has inadvertently made manifest precisely why he needs nuclear power - at least to the Israelis and Jews, if not the bein pensants of "liberal" drawing rooms. The attempted annihilation of Jewry, as you said, is hardly an original idea, but now, more than ever, it is likely to cost us all a good deal more than the world can afford.

7 Did anyone else see where Syria is now calling for dialogue with the US? Typical gutless arabs; they pick a fight then run.

8 Exellent points, Otocon.

9 Maybe a strongly worded memo will scare 'em to their senses.

10 A message to IRAN if you destroy IREAL we will leave a smoking crater where TERAN is now and screw hanoi jane

11 Tony Blair is finally getting some real balls. Shame about all the muslim vermin that have infested Britain. Next job is to kick them all out. I even heard that one insipid bank has stopped dishing out piggy banks because they may offend muslims...talk about selling out your own traditions to cow down to scum.

12 Do ignore the Jester, we don't have "muslim vermin" in Britain, we don't even have a comparable level of racism save the Nationalist nutters. And I don't even care if he's jesting, those comments go beyond offending muslims. Grow up about the bank, don't you think they want some muslim customers? The gift is meant to be an incentive, not offensive. But I'll bet you can get a gorgeous piggy bank off ebay to shove up your arse you clown.

1 It may already be too late to act. if anyone doesn't think the attention will turn from "little Satan" to "big Satan" as soon as a inter-continental deliverable warhead is assembled, they're fooling themself. I also saw an article in another person's blog that they may have already tested a EMP weapon.

2 The Israel Firsters are acting like this is a shocking development, and cause for immediate invasion, but considering how Israel has behaved towards its neighbors I find Iran's statements to be merely letting off steam and certainly no worse than the equivilent statements from Israel we have heard over the years. 1. "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001 2. "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000 3. " [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982. 4. "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988 5. "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983. 6. "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969. 7. "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969 8. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972. 9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. 10. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget." 11. "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983. 12. "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. 13. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983. 14. "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. 15. "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. 16. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum" 17. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969. 18. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. 19. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas. 20. "There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5. 21. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998. 22. "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972. 23. "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry. 24. "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1] 25. "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155). 26. "We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate). 27. "We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not...You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world." (Chaim Weizmann, Published in "Judische Rundschau," No. 4, 1920)

3 Speaking of Iran... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051026/ts_nm/iran_alqaeda_dc By the way, the lumber dispute has been brewing for years. There's no "taking advantage" going on. Rice just happens to be visiting at the same time.

4 That's not what a canadian official said on NPR yesterday. Where is that (rummage rummage)

5 Maybe all the antiwar activists should go to iran and urge them to sit around smoke dope and have a love in maybe they will end up with the heads off

6 Hey greg, why don't you head on over to stormfront.org, you'd fit right in there with all the other Joooooo-haters.

7 Greg, If you want to make a point, ok, but drop all the cut and paste. No one has the time to read all that crap. Just make your point, argue on its merits, and see if anyone agrees or disagrees.

8 Howie, are you sure? The Iranian article you quote said the Iranian president made those comments "Wednesday," as in today. You're saying that the Canadian official made comments on NPR yesterday. So, how could he make comments to "take advantage" of the Iranian presidents comments, when they hadn't even been said yet? Despite how this might read, I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'm just saying, like before, I highly doubt Canada is using the Iranian president's comments to "take advantage" of anything. Condi was in town, that's why they're bringing it up with her.

9 Sorry if you misunderstood me. I went over there and rummaged around. Crap. It's quite Ok Venom Good point. However I did hear a Canadian official say they thought they could get a better deal with the US than they could have otherwise with all the other stuff going on. Not taking advantage so to speak but they thought that the time was right to push the US. It got me to thinking about all the distractions with the Plame case Delay so on and so forth. I wonder how many other countries see that and think now is the time we can get away with stuff. Just a thought I had. If you don't agree thats fine. I felt we should consider that maybe we might get all distracted with some issues that while not totally bunk could take away from either the will or the time to effectively deal with bigger issues. I had never thought that another country would consider our internal problems as on opportunity to get a better deal or maybe a good time to get away with stuff. Seemed logical though with a weakened adminstation and a ruling party thats at odds with itelf so I wanted to put that out there for thought. Not so much that one was related to the other but maybe many countries see a crack in our armor due to domsetic squabbles. Like I said it was a new idea to me so I just tossed it in there.

10 I have an arrangement with the local Mohel. The Mohel saves the tissue collected during Bris for me. A big steamy bowl of circum-tips cooked menudo style, Yum, Yum! It's my favorite meal!

11 The best thing about diddling little boys is that once they've been assraped, they grow up to be liberals.

12 Actually, I intended to do a serious comment, but I'm laughing too hard. I got to go get a napkin and clean the computer screen.

13 copy that JJ

14 I wondered where all them damn liberals came from. Thanks for the info, Greg?

15 Actually I was wrong, the best part about cornholing little boys is that it brings back so many fond childhood memories when my uncle would take me fishing. At least I think we were fishing, he always talked about my worm and his rod.

16 It is dam right true that the Jews stole the land from the palastians with the help of the UN and America. It were first the British that were protecting the Jews. Then came WWII and their support shifted more to the Arabs for the need of oil against the Germans. In 1947 all that changed back. America was one of the first to recognize Israel as the first country without officially having any borders. The Arabs were furious. Then came the six-day war, unfortunately for the Arabs and the rest of the world they lost! And up to this day they keep the world hostile! Greedy Jews and stupid Arabs!

17 Gee, Dan, that was a real gem you came up with there. Does Adolph ring a bell? Just curious.

18 I M: Please don't send Greg to stormfront. Those boys are allready riled up enough.

19 Hi Jesus, How is it hanging? I just lay it out how the Arab world is looking at it. And they have a point. I am calling the Arabs stupid for not recognizing the Jews by realizing that they have their history in Palestinia to (or maybe not. depends how well you can dig in it's history to make any solid comment if Abraham didn't make an geologically mistake!). And I am calling the Jews Greedy for taking the opportunity to take more land and enslave the Palestinians until they all wiped out. Hey! Why donÂ’t you give a Adolph ring! He probably has some tips for speeding up the process!!! Dan

20 Quothe Dan: "It is dam right true that the Jews stole the land from the palastians with the help of the UN and America." The Jews bought and paid for land that was deeded, and simply occupied land that wasn't deeded. It is a univeral common law that undeeded land is open to settlement. "It were first the British that were protecting the Jews." Wrong again. There was actually a strong anti-Jewish current in British society and government. "Then came WWII and their support shifted more to the Arabs for the need of oil against the Germans." The British had been in an alliance with the Arabs since WWI. Remember Lawrence of Arabia? "In 1947 all that changed back. America was one of the first to recognize Israel as the first country without officially having any borders. The Arabs were furious." Why were the Arabs furious? "Then came the six-day war, unfortunately for the Arabs and the rest of the world they lost!" Then they shouldn't have started it, should they? "And up to this day they keep the world hostile!" The sole talent the Arabs possess is to foment trouble. "Greedy Jews and stupid Arabs!" If the Jews were so greedy, why didn't they try to take the oil fields when they had the chance? They've only won three wars, defensive war, mind you, against the Arabs, and they could have taken Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia easily, but they didn't. Go back to Stormfront and continue your fascist circlejerk there.

21 Never heard of Stormfront? Why is it that every time when you have critique about what is happening in the promised land (ahum!) they make you out for a racist? I have some idea why they do this, it is an easy way to change the subject and putt the other in the defensive. Doesn’t work on me! But why would you say that, if the Jews are treating the Palestinians as second-rate people. The fact is that everything that is going on in the Promised Land had an affect on 9/11 – 7/11 – van Gogh – Madrid – Indonesia! You have to give back the land you stole and that includes Jerusalem! Anyway, as we speak Iran is playing political hardball by pointing his finger at the problem. Lets see where this is going. From the land of the windmills Dan

22 Dan, Looks like it will soon be the land of the burqa if most people think the way you do.

23 Ha ha, Don't worry that will wear off eventually! Dan

24 Dan, I don't mean any disrespect, but the radical Muslims(including OBL) say that the driving force behind their movement is to reintroduce the Caliphate. Whether they think that the Caliphate may be in a better position to destroy Israel is a logical conclusion, but the Islamists have complaints that predate the birth of the nation of Israel. The Sunnis want the Caliphate to recapture all the land that was lost to Christian Europe(Spain and much of the Balkans and the old Soviet Union) after it had been conquered by Muslim invaders from 670 through 1700.

25 Those radical Muslims are a total different story to me! I know that they dream of the “green land” And their way of an ideal world just horrors me. I just like to make a point about Israel, in my opinion they pushing the envelope in gaining more territory, and in doing so giving exactly those radicals fuel to rise up even more. It is that Israel is trying to gain more land and nobody is calling them back strongly enough, that means the US and the European union. That is what angers the Muslims! And I can understand that! Dan

1 i wouldnt really consider that the worlds tallest "building"....its really just a tower, not an actual office building....lets see how long the Canadians can keep it standing with their oh so liberal ways of letting anyone into Canada

2 WOW!

3 Yeah I bet it won't be long until some 'slamotard takes offence at the Soviet Socialist Republik of Kanukistan's anti-sharia policies, (lame though they may be), and decideds that they aren't dhimmified enough and takes down the CN tower. I wonder if the Kanukistanis will get it then?

4 Oh, I almost forgot: BOIOIOIOIOIIIIINNNNNGGGGG!!!

5 probally not, IM...they dont seem very intelligent to me from what i know of them...well at least most....some of them are cool, but they seem to be a small minority...and send Mikey "fatass" Moore and most of the retards in Hollyweird to Canada, well there goes their national IQ, right down the crapper

6 Didn't the U.S. let in all those terrorists back in 2001? Must have been their liberal ways.... Damn that George W.! *rolls eyes*

7 Oh yeah, nice tits.

8 Centcom news says Canada has 1500 troops taking over Anbar province in Afghanistan for us. Just so ya know. select bulletin 26. http://www.centcom.mil/Operations/Coalition/joint.htm

9 Good point, Howie. Fuck, if only those Canadians would get onside with the GWOT...oh wait, that only applies to places they aren't.

10 I have nothing against the Canadian military, they are some damned good guys, it's just the liberals who have taken over the country that I hate. All liberals should be killed for the good of humanity.

11 It's kinda hard when Canada doesn't have a second viable political party to challenge the Liberals. Too much regional voting.

12 I'm sorry, was there something in the background?

13 my kind of woman....always have been a hooter man.....YEP YEP YEP!!!

14 Man, you could do Shakespeare from that balconey.

15 Some of you guys amaze me with your commentary on the written story. I just couldn't read it. What tower?

16 Actually, Howie, the first link to Wikipedia doesnt work. Hilarious post by the way. A double entendre headline, informative, and visually interesting architectural presentation. None too shabby, pauan or padewan or however you spell it.

17 Thanks See-Dub... Link fixed. like everyone it ws hard to look at the code when..well never mind.

18 I was going to comment, but Mr. Venom scared me away.

19 There's the reason that tower stands erect.

20 If itÂ’s not too much trouble, IÂ’ll take 75 virgins and that one in the picture. Oh, and Death to America!!

21 Sorry, M'Balz Matahari, you only get 72 raisins. Big joke Allah has played on you to get you to jihad for him. Sorry!

22 That tower thingie isn't taht tall, I mean ... the girl is taller. /TJ

23 That tower thingie isn't that tall, I mean ... the girl is taller. /TJ

24 Technically, the CN Tower is the world's tallest "Free Standing Structure". What that actually means I haven't the foggiest. Whatever it means, it's still not the tallest structure in the world. Oh, and that's not a tank top. That's a gotdamn retaining wall! The Army Corps of Engineers should study it for future protectitive barriers.

25 Oh, what I would do for a peek under that retaining wall or tanktop, or whatever. Just one peek!

26 I want one. Er two.

27 MAZZOLA!!!

28 71 raisins and her would still be pretty good.

29 Ya know, now that I've gotten around to looking at her face, (trust me, she has a face, look real hard near the top of the photo), she's gonna be a dog in about ten years. What the hell, I'd throw her a bone.

30 Clinton did, bush sr. did, reagan did, carter did. When we opened our boarders we bent over for the world to take a shot. And scum took advantage of it, two towers destroyed and 3,000 dead for the folly.

1 Brawnyman was fantastic.

2 Michael Yon will be interviewed live tonight on Pundit Review Radio, 9pm est. All of the info you need to stram the show live, or call in with a question, is contained below. When: Sunday, October 23, 9pm EST Where: Streaming Live at BostonÂ’s Talk Station, WRKO.com Contact: Call us toll free at 877-469-4322 About Pundit Review Radio Pundit Review Radio is where the old media meets the new. Each week Kevin & Gregg give voice to the work of the most influencial thought leaders in the new media/citizen journalist movement. This unique show brings the best of the blogs to your radio every Sunday evening at 9pm EST on AM680 WRKO, BostonÂ’s Talk Leader. http://www.punditreview.com

3 Every person who aided, abetted, assisted, conspired, or colluded with Saddam in any way related to the OFF scandal should be hanged for crimes against humanity.

4 I'm pissed about the treatment Piglet has been getting from these radical Muslims. I think it is now time for every newspaper and blog to come to the rescue of Piglet. I'm serious. I like Piglet and I don't know how I might react if some Muslim tried to have my Piglet removed from my office. I might have to start a jihad of my own. And you know I'm a Southerner, and I love my fatback, dry salt meat, pig feet, ham, pork roast(the other white meat), bacon, and especially Jimmy Dean hot sausage, so any Muslim who tried to starve me to death would face my wrath in the form of a pig jihad.

1 It wasn't the American's fault. The men spontaneuosly combusted! That part of Afghanistan is like the Bermuda Triangle, weird shit like that happens all the time. I swear on the Fuhrer's honor.

2 Greg, your are such a pathetic loser. Don't you realize you're not even irritating us? At best you are funny, but not in a good way, rather more like watching a drunk fall on ice.

3 hicup, Go Horns!

4 greg, i would love to introduce you to a 8 lb mallet....come a little closer so you can get a better look....there ya go, now just keep looking right here.....WHAMMMM!!!!!.....bye greg

5 and besides,after reading the bs from the transcript, mostly about the soldiers playing music to flush out the terrorists, they should play some really loud music that the poor sensitive Muslim terrorists would find really aggravating...i would personally pick Slayer, Anthrax and my all time fave....Suicidial Tendencies....perfect for idiot Muslim terrorists who seem to have death wishes.....tell em, Cyco Miko!!!

6 I am glad they got rid of the stench it must have been horrible. I doubt the Taliban freaks smell that great to begin with.

7 Uh that stench gets worse before it gets better when yer burnin flesh. I feel for the guys they gotta do it. It has to be done the order is pretty sound give em a day and then take care of it.

8 In the name of the Fuhrer, the Merciless Exalted One, the messenger of God, may God whisper sweetly in his ear, George W. Bush, may he triumph over the Evil Doers, if it be God's will, I send greetings from the front. I can report that our Holy Crusaders are delivering lethal blows to the Subhumans on a daily basis and march forward triumphantly. With God's help, through the messenger of God, may we boil them in a sea of mother's milk and feast on their steaming entrails as we celebrate the Dawn of Empire for the Bushian War Cult, as described by Baber. Our grandchildren will sing songs of our great exploits and will stand on the necks of the Subhumans and rule them as Masters and they obedient and grateful dogs. Long live the Fourth Reich. And, if you can spare it, please send $100,000.

9 Greg, Read your comments, look in the mirror, and admit you need psychiatric help. That is the first step; yes, I know, little steps, baby steps, but you have to start somewhere. Quickly!

10 So who can trust the main-stream left-wing new smedia just look at what NEWSWEEKS rotten lie over the koran has done

1 The CHicken Tikka is a hit. You should e-mail me for my mango chutney recipe!

2 Turned it on? I haven't posted my pics of Filthy naked yet. Alright, who's leaking sensitive Jawa info here!

3 Try new and inmproved Olestra, 20% less anal leakage!!!

1 All aid given to the so-called "Palestinians" only serves the PROVEN purpose of fueling the fire of hate and violence directed toward Israel.We would all be better off in the long term to cease all aid to the "Palestinians" till we can actually have control over where and what it is used for.Corruption within the leadership of the "Palestinians" has already pissed away the billions of $ they have been given.Its time to call a spade a spade and adjust our actions toward a more fruitful outcome.

2 Yep got to call em on it. Got to pay a bit of lip service to Israel so's it don't look like were picking on Palestine. I think we have been puttng some pressure in Israel due to the whining about us pushing them out of the occupied areas. Heard some the US made us do that stuff, you bet we did. Now we just need to make the other side TKOB or else do it ourselves. Can't really fault Israel for taking out Hamas. But really we need to demand that Palestine do these things. When Israel has to it they turn and use it against them. And yes we may have to use the purse strings here and there. No sense getting nothing for our money. so I think I've been fair here. Hold both sides to it. Then publicly scold whomever fouls up and send that money to LA or Bama.

3 Does anyone in their right mind think Abbas has any control over Hamas? They flaunt their weapons right in front of the Palestinian Police, and have engaged in gun battles with the police. As a matter of fact, Hamas is the real power in the Gaza strip and they have Abbas for their useful idiot to fool the EU and the US. FOR THE MONEY!

4 You are right JJ he has no control now. But if they want a state they have to act like one. So he had best get control in a hurry otherwise why spend another dime.

5 Howie: “So it appears the US is being fair and balanced to both sides.” Howie, Good topic. You chose your words carefully, ”it appears”. That’s all it is - an appearance. Look what we have given to Israel. U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Summary Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid?Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)? Foreign Aid Grants and Loans?$74,157,600,000?? Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)?$9,047,227,200 ??Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments ?$1,650,000,000 ??Grand Total?$84,854,827,200 ??Total Benefits per Israeli?$14,630 Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S. Aid to Israel Grand Total $84,854,827,200 Interest Costs Borne by U.S. $49,936,680,000 Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers $134,791,507,200 Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli $23,240 Not to mention the $2.6 trillion dollars that can’t be accounted for by Dr. (and Rabbi) Dov Zakheim. Any guesses as to where that money went? “As you know, the Department of Defense really is not in charge of its civilian workforce, in a certain sense. It's the OPM, or Office of Personnel management, I guess. There are all kinds of long- standing rules and regulations about what you can do and what you can't do. I know Dr. Zakheim's been trying to hire CPAs because the financial systems of the department are so snarled up that we can't account for some $2.6 trillion in transactions that exist, if that's believable. And yet we're told that we can't hire CPAs to help untangle it in many respects.” HYPERLINK "http://www.dod.gov/speeches/2001/s20010716-secdef2.html" http://www.dod.gov/speeches/2001/s20010716-secdef2.html The Pentagon is crawling with Israeli Firsters like Zakheim. So much so, that if we ever attempted to nuke Israel, the missiles would not launch, or if they did, they would make a U-turn and hit American soil. Israel gets $billions per year from us, by contrast, the last I heard, we were giving the Palestinians about $50 million per year. Israel destroys more than $50 million in Palestinian property each year, so the Palis aren’t even treading water. One of Israel’s major targets has been the Pali police force, which has been decimated. And Israel wonders why the Palis can’t police effectively. Abbas is no more responsible for the actions of Hamas, than the U.S. puppets in Iraq are responsible for the actions of the insurgents. The Road Map has Israel giving the Palis the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. As soon as the Israelis abandoned Gaza they began building more settlements in the West Bank, which is contrary to the Road Map. Good luck holding Israel’s feet to the fire. You can’t out Jew, a Jew and you damn sure can’t out Jew, Israel.

6 howie, perhaps you should look into exactly what the US receives for much of the money that is 'guaranteed loans' to Israel. It might change your mind about some of the rather unfair things you've written here about Israel.

7 "Gauranteed loans to Israel" my ass. Gauranteed by the American Taxpayers!

8 "rather unfair things you've written here about Israel." Howie didn't say anything unfair about Israel. But I will. Fuck those bastards. We ought to just invade Israel and take care of this cancer that has metastasized into a GWOT once in for all. First we've got to purge all those fucking Israeli Firsters and End Times wackos from the DOD so they won't fuck us up from within. alright Bubbe Schwartsteingoldenstein?

9 Greg, You are absolutely frickin crazy! Don't ever call anybody a fascist or Hitler again!

10 JJ, Pull your head out of your ass.

11 Oh, Greg, by the way, how are you feeling about Jamie Gorelick right about now? It seems certain people in the Clinton Administration knew about Atta and the NYC terrorist cell, but prevented the news from reaching the FBI. Louis Freeh, the former FBI director said he would have acted on this information had it reached him, and the destruction of NYC and the GWOT would never have happened. This should make you very happy, because I have seen you say many times that their was a 9/11 conspiracy, and I didn't believe you, but now I will have to say you were right in this case. Congratulations, Greg!

12 You're probably not even aware that AIPAC is currently being investigated in the biggest espionage case since John Pollard gave our nuclear secrets to Israel who promptly sold them to the Soviet Union in exchange for lax emigration rules for Russian Jews wanting to move to Israel. We're still paying for that one. It's embedded in that dinasour of a National Debt that we've all been yoked to. Here's the pussy, Israeli, version of the story: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/631009.html And here is an honest to God analysis by Justin Raimondo, a conservative American. http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7454 Both sides of the story. Take your pick.

13 Amen JJ and congratulations on your baby step. Members of both parties are involved in that conspiracy and in the OK City bombing and the 1st WTC bombing, which were Clinton's. When you arruve at that conclusion, we can have an honest conversation.

14 arrive, Damn, Damn, Damn.

15 After the first Gulf War, Bush (41) repatriated a couple of thousand Proletarian Gaurds to OK City. They had apparently been apart of a breakaway group that essentially surrendered before the war even started. During the Clinton administration the bombing occured and a John Doe #2 was spotted who was reported to of middle eastern decent. There are two videos that Attorney David Schippers is after, either of which would corroborate this (Schippers, you'll recall, prosecuted Clinton during the impeachment hearings). He has been representing an OK City newswoman that has evidence that a group of OK City Iraqi's were involved since 1995. Schippers was interviewed by Alex Jones. Jones does attempt to steer him in the interview, but Schippers is no lightweight. You don't have to read Alex's comments, but do read what Schippers has to say. Schippers has gone nowhere in the MSM. The OK City newswoman's station originally ran with the story, then abruptly fired the woman and cleaned their website of any reference to the story. http://www.infowars.com/transcript_schippers.html

16 was he the smoking gun, on the grassy knoll greg?

17 Greg, we're ready to believe you.

18 okay, this may be OT, but i recently read some editorials in a New York Post paper, it concerned the Israelie pullout in Gaza and sadly enough, but not too surprising to me as most of the writers are from NYC, they all blamed the situation on Israel...the Palisimians are innocent according to these idiots{probally all related to Greg....oh,a big Heil Hitler to you Fuhrer Greg, you lowly cellar dwelling C.H.U.D.}...i guess it ties in with the topic here as we see how Fuhrer Greg here tries to blame everything from Aids to the Fall of Rome on the Jews somehow....it must be a sad and lonely world down there in the sewers, eh Mein Fuhrer Greg???

19 Greg has come undone. Dude you have lost it.

20 So let me ask you this, Casper the Ghost: What happened to all the money every other country, in Europe and elsewhere, gave to the Palestinians? Huh? So their chances of success in pulling themselves out of the stone age is based solely on how much money is given to them by the US? Get on Google and see how many countries have given aid to the Palestinians over the last twenty years and how many gave to the Israelis. You're the one with your head up your ass. Nice how you phrased your statement based on US aid and never mention all the money squandered, stolen and otherwise misspent by the Palestinians that was given them by so many other countries. Oh and Suha! Don't forget her 60 million or so annual payments. And before you start your useless twaddle again, let me tell you that no matter what you say, you have put forth too many whacked out conspiracies here for anyone to take you seriously. And your hate speech is abhorrent. Yes, I believe the Palestinian people need a state, they need an identity, but as long as the Hamas psychopaths are running the show, it's not going to happen. You need a serious dose of reality to understand that. Your loyalties always seem to lie with the tyrants and psychos. While you gleefully berate the US for taking out Saddam, a murderous tyrant, you think it's a good idea to take out Israel and leave another tyrannical group in power. After your silly little, "Fuck those bastards," outburst I have no desire to listen to another word you say. So cram it.

21 Oh shuck Off, Oyster and the rest of you brain washed semitophiles. You're too damn lazy to listen to Schippers, who has impeccable credentials.

22 Easy greg sorry I temped you with Israel. I don't feel I said anything unfair about Isreal. They are a state and should be treated like any other state. I don't hate em. Nothing of the sort but if you are going to mediate you have to take a balanced approach. There is already a perception that the US is Israels lap dog. I would much rather they be our lap dog. You can't let them by with stuff just because they are who they are. You got to be objective. Imagine they are russia or france or any other state and act in that manner. I'm not saying you have to be mean to em. On the other hand you have to keep the pressure on palestine. If we are unwilling to look objetively at the deal and be fair and even which means we might have to smack a hand or two now and then we should get out and let the UN try. Oh wait they made this mess by forcing the brits out before the time had come. Now of course greg hates em and can't resist going offf on em. I just want to see the shit fixed. Been going on 50 years as a waste of time and money if we are the worlds last remaining superpower we should fisk this. Not against the wall good idea worked in Germany. Not against Israel killing terrorists. My main point is that Palestine needs to TKOB and Isreal needs to be careful. Our President said so and I know lots of people don't quite agree with him lately but if he is working on this I'll support it. So if you want to say someone is being unfair to Isreal say it's Bush. I'm just going along with his game plan which is to put pressure on both sides. Greg one post was too long. also do a percent if you are above 20 % on a thread get the idea. I'm watching. I knew you would be temped be good. and try and be somewhat civil.

23 What you don't understand, Greg, is there's a huge leap between saying, "The government knew about 9/11 before it happened," and saying, "The DIA or some in the Pentagon knew that Atta and possibly three others were in the country and up to something and if the proper attention were paid, something like 9/11 could have been avoided." And your mantra for some time now has been the former. We all already learned, shortly after the fact, that there was a glut of information on many issues (not just 9/11) that hadn't been passed on from one department to another and that there was a possibility such information could have prevented 9/11, but to say all the dots had been connected beforehand and someone knew they would specifically fly planes into buildings and that there was a mass conspiracy to let it occur is a stretch. That lack of cooperation between departments was, and still is, being addressed. That is something that has to be considered as well when delving into such issues. It's disingenuous and irresponsible to take such a complicated issue and shorten it to sound like something it simply isn't. I apologize for being a twit, but you are so infuriating. You have a tendency to just leap off the conspiracy cliff without applying some common sense to the way you just repeat what you hear. Use your own head to glean fact from fiction. It's just like back in high school and hearing rumors about other kids and repeating it verbatim. As they say, there's always a little truth to rumor, but we must use our own powers of reasoning to understand how much of anything is really true.

24 I don't hate Jews, I hate Israel and the Israeli/U.S. relationship. I have plenty of Jewish friends, two of which are life-long friends. Israel's Ziocons are the new fascist Nazis. They learned well from their German masters.

25 Hey how come the ghost guy can post as many numbers as he did ? I thought no one liked math ? what i would have liked to see is how much total aid per israeli verses per palestinian. MSM has always been pro israeli.

26 John R, There about 5 million Palestinians in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. We have been giving them $50,000,000 per year. That's $10 per Pali per year. Compare that to the $4 billion per year (conservative figure) that we give to Israel. That's about $1000.00 per Israeli Jew per year. You're right about thhe MSM being pro-Israel. The NYT reports the deaths of Israeli children 7 times more than it reports the death of Palistinian children. Even though, 10 times as many Pali kids are killed per year than Isreali kids. The bias is therfore quantifiable. It is a 70-fold bias.

27 Mr Ghost, Should they (Palestine) not also have to show thye do a good job with the money as well. I see your point but just giving them 4 bil all at once makes me a bit nervous. Can't let it backflow to Hamas or other terrorists. Still proably tough for Palestine to get after em without some help. My worrie is that the PA won't get the job done. Some idiot will blow himself up. Israel will over react knowing full well that's exactly what the terrorists want then boom right back where we started

28 Nope not going to edit that dude.

29 Howie, There are those on both sides who don't want any compromise. Witness the assassination of Rabin. We should attempt to marginalize these elements. Ironically, Hamas, which is loosely related to the Muslim Brotherhood, is a creation of Israel's meant to factionalize the PLO. Now the hens are coming home to roost (Doesn't that always happen?) "Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies." GO HORNS, GO STROS!

30 Ghost: The islamofacists of the muslim world are my enemy. The Jews are their enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. For now.

1 More from the peoples republic of berkeley americans own ho chi min city just what a disgracful place and its in the vertial same area as honoi on the bay

2 Country Joe? Is that smug, faux-populist, hippie dumba$$ still taking up space? I'd have thought that pot-cured ham would have perished in a half-way house trying to light a doobie over a gas stove long ago.

3 You know what's so funny here. The liberals actually think they are supporting the troops when they go out and get a bunch of crazies to call our troops baby killers and such. It's hilarious that they are so stupid and full of themselves. Yep, you can bet the troops feel the love they get from places like Berkeley!

4 The amazing thing about this Berkley thing is that a collection of nit-wits see Veterans Day (a non-partisan event to say the least) as an opportunity to USE (hi-jack, pimp, whore, whatever etc.) for their own purposes without batting an eye. Inappropriate is an understatement - they are oblivious to the fact that they are telling everyone else (like er - the veterans) to bend over or get lost. Berkley is an extremely liberal town - for them to cancel indicates that a majority of the lib/left even recognized how stupid this left stunt was and bailed out to prevent personal embarrassment.

5 I'm glad they dumped the idea, because as a veteran, I don't want any goddamn stupid filthy hippies to even breathe on Veteran's Day, much less have an event. God I hate liberals. They should all be puirged for the good of society. Maybe we could grind them up and ship them to Africa to feed the starving people there, solving two problems at once.

6 I've never been a link whore, BUT I'm pissed and it was too much to say here....

7 The fact that Berzerkeley even allowed Joe on the committee is a clue to their seriously deranged messed-up-ness. Joe is a second generation Communist agitator, his radical-red parents named him after Joseph Stalin - a fact he proudly declared in a newspaper article years ago.

8 Mr. and Mrs. McDonald wanted to name their son after a man of Peace and an advocate of free speech. Joseph StalinÂ….what a great choice. Not so peaceful, not so free with the speech, but the health care was great!

9 tHEY CAN COME TO etna calfornia WERE HOLDING A VETERANS DAY PARADE and were not anything like the PEOPLES REBUBLIC OF BERKLEY

10 Country Joe served a full 3 year hitch in the regular Navy in Japan in 1959-1962. He is an honorably discharged Petty Officer. For years he has worked for Veterans rights. He is a family man and father of 5. His parents were communists he is not.