The following post by a friend from the UK helped me cope with the fact that there are people at the BBC who've apparently taken the liberty of producing a three part series promoting the idea that Totalitarianism 3.x is just (to use a phrase from Ebeneezer Scrooge): "a piece of over-ripe potato." My friend's post proves that some Englishmen haven't bothered to master the dexterity that must be required to poke their heads up their @$$es without wrinkling their ears:
more...
1
Rusty, you should watch it, you might learn something. Or are your views on terrorism and Islam so distorted that you cant countenance the idea that somebody elses views might negate yours?
Posted by: James at November 10, 2004 03:39 AM (4PPsx)
2
The three part programme was a real eye opener and a few more americans ought to take the time to watch it. George Bush paints the world in such a black and white way, good v evil, but it isn't as simple as that and nowhere near as scarey.
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 10, 2004 03:39 AM (ccz95)
3
Indeed the "The Power of Nightmares" programmes are indeed 'real eye openers' from which to 'learn something'.
It's eye opening that the editorial chain chain at the BBC should comission, produce, and pass for transmission, such a pile of rubbish.
Attempting to portray the neo-conservatives as analogous to the jihadi islamists is either hilarious or libellous, I can't decide which.
Leo Strauss as an analogue for Sayed Quttub. Ludicrous.
The programme also manages to hopelessly mangle much of the history of the Reagan confrontation with the USSR.
Then it goes on having 'proved' the existence of a neo-con campaign to change America, to declare that for this purpose it has invented Al Qaeda as an international organisation.
Anyone who knows anything about it knows Al Qaeda has always been a 'network of networks', providing services and support to like-minded local groups, and blurring into them in carrying out operations.
But to deny, on this basis, that jihadi islamist terrorism exist, and at least before the recent US counter-offensive, was growing, is crazy.
In short, the producers erect their OWN nightmare, the conspiracy theory of the neo-con boogymen, in order to play down real threats and problems that imperil their own dream.
Posted by: John F at November 10, 2004 08:42 AM (5cvA7)
4
Raving sophisticated sophistry - it's all more marxist illusionary revisionism.
Posted by: -keith in mtn. view at November 10, 2004 11:28 AM (04TFv)
5
The BBC series, from the reports about it I've read, tiptoes so closely to the line of anti-Semitism that the line might as well not exist. But the BBC attitude toward the US is well-rehearsed.
Part of their problem is that like American reporters in Iraq, they don't get out to the hinterlands. BBC has correspondents in NY (mostly for the UN), in Washington, and in Hollywood. That pretty much tells it all. When they do go out of the city, it's always something "cute" on a farm, with SO of chirping crickets and lowing cattle. At least Alistair Cooke got out there for his "Letters from America" which were fair and informative.
Posted by: John at November 10, 2004 11:40 AM (OmbAg)
6
Guys:
Thanks for the comments, but this wasn't posted by Rusty so don't blame him. We have a technical problem in the author designation, but I've indicated in two places on the post that this was submitted by Demosophist. As to whether either I or Rusty have anything to learn here, I guess I'd ask if anyone knows what a "toff" or a "sab" are? I figure the first is probably an elitist, and the second is some derogatory racial reference to people of swarthy hue... but again, I don't really know.
Beyond that, I just look at the BBC as an institutionalized version of Michael Moore squeezing out propaganda like... well, whatever squeezes out of a smallish expandable hole. "Rubbish" is too polite a term.
Posted by: Demosophist at November 10, 2004 03:24 PM (OtR16)
7
Your questions to "Ask a Brit" shall be answered!
Toff - upper class (originally implying elegance and/or foppishness, but not necessarily nowadays).
Sab - hunt saboteur; specifically, of fox and stag hunting on horses with hounds. Swarthiness not an issue.
Posted by: John F at November 11, 2004 03:23 AM (5cvA7)
8
The problem with the bbc is that they don't produce programmes which suit your view of the world. Anything that portrays the USA as anything but the saviours of the world is deemed rubbish.
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 11, 2004 03:46 AM (ccz95)
9
Demosophist......lovely name. Do your parents have a special sense of humour or is it a nom de plume that you created in a moment of immense confusion?
The BBC is far from perfect but to compare its current affairs programmes to the productions of Michael Moore clearly demonstrates an inability to distinguish fact from fiction. To castigate them further using execrable language makes me wonder if you have just jumped on the bandwagon with those who view anything which is remotely critical of the United States foreign policies as "America Haters" and terrorist collaborators.
Presumably you have not seen the programme as is the case with John and Keith in mtn. I would suggest that you watch it. John's comment that the programme is Anti Semetic is ill informed garbage. Again being critical of Israel does not make one an anti Semite.
I have lived in the States for 2 years, Chicago in fact, great place and some of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet. The only thing that really shocked me, was people's ignorance of what was going on in the world. And these people were professionals, doctors, traders lawyers policemen. But then it occured to me that American news stations gave very little coverage to what was going on in the world with the exception of CNN, and Fox,to a lesser degree. Now since 9/11 everybody seems to be an expert on all things foreign. Fortunately for me I was able to get a copy of the Daily Telegraph (a quality UK publication) and the Irish Times (a quality newspaper from Ireland, a small island west of Britain in the Atlantic for those of you who dont know where it is on a map)
Why, even your good self seems to be very well informed. I just wonder where you get your news from? Mainstream media or msm as it is referred to now? Of course you do, unless you have your own people on the ground giving you the facts/stories as they happen. Or perhaps you have a Reuters terminal, maybe one from PA or do you use Bloomberg? Or do you search the net, a much cheaper alternative to the above. Regardless of where you get it, you twist it,turn it, spin it to suit your own political agenda as does the BBC or any other news organisation. You compare the BBC's output to shit, the fact is you are talking out your arse, ass if you prefer.
One last thing, as a self proclaimed expert on all things foreign I would have thought a man(perhaps you are a woman, no offence intended regadless of your gender) as well informed as yourself would have known the difference between a toff and a sab. I didn't understand the remark at all in any context and a friend who is an English teacher could make head nor tail of it either, that is, neither of have a clue what you are talking about! Perhaps you would share your reasons for wanting to know the difference and also what it has to do with the current topic of debate. Best regards and apologies to Rusty for having assumed that he wrote the piece.
Posted by: James at November 11, 2004 05:29 AM (4PPsx)
10
I could not have put it any better...Well said James
Posted by: Rod at November 11, 2004 06:32 AM (2anKB)
11
James:
I have seen the programme.
(Or parts at least; I periodically got too fed up with the waste of time and wandered off.)
It's a pile of rubbish.
I wouldn't have said it was antisemitic. Though a lot of loons peddle the "evil neo-Cons = Jooos!" crap, seems to me the programme the neo-cons as wicked, but not on the basis of their Jewishness. I'd let them off that one.
But it is nonetheless a moronic piece of conspiracy-theory barely one step up from "aliens killed JFK".
Posted by: John F at November 11, 2004 08:58 AM (5cvA7)
12
John F.....I don't buy the neo-con conspiracy rubbish. But I do think that there is "something rotten in the state of Denmark" with regards to America's decision to invade Iraq. It's as though the invasion had been planned as part of Bush's electoral campaign. The programme does raise some serious questions about the wests foreign policy towards the middle east. Demosophist's condemnation of the programme before having viewed it and comparing it to a Michael Moore production is pure folly. Now I am just waiting for a diatribe from morons, whom I shall not mention, asking "what has Denmark got to do with it"?!!!!!!!
Posted by: James at November 11, 2004 09:21 AM (4PPsx)
13
Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation=BBC
Posted by: karl at November 13, 2004 05:46 AM (PM/BC)
Posted by: Laura at November 13, 2004 09:17 AM (ptOpl)
15
James:
Though I can't see that you've said anything that isn't naked, and mostly ignorant, ad hominem, more or less on par with "blow it out your ass" spiced with a quasi-intellectual stab at irony, I'll try to respond. I understand that the BBC has made conspiracy thinking in England more or less mainstream, but that doesn't make it sane. I would have no problem with the BBC saying anything it has half a mind to say (and that's about all its thesis requires) were the outlet not government subsidized. Not only does that fact relieve it of certain market pressures that would otherwise combat an institutionalized flabbiness, but it gives their garbage undeserved and unearned credibility (not unlike the false credibility given much of the Middle Eastern government subsidized press.)
The central "neocon" thesis is a pretty simple one: that expansion of the democratic franchise will make the world safer in the long run (though perhaps more volatile in the short run). I fail to see that you're even aware of an alternative, let along that you're presenting one with any responsibility. It seems to me that this leaves you with only one recourse: to spin conspiracies founded (however subtly) on political paranoia.
Well, it's the opposite of wisdom, is all I'm sayin'. The opposite of Demosophia. It is the ignorance and foolishness of a spoiled elitist faction given far more credibility than their station merits. Thanks for providing the cautionary tale.
Posted by: Demosophist at November 16, 2004 10:10 AM (OtR16)
16
Demosophist...
Thank you for the response, even if it has taken you a week. I was expecting something with a little meat to it, something that I could actually get my teeth into.
You are right about one thing though, the BBC is a publicly funded organisation. There are pros and cons to this but to suggest that it a mouthpiece for the government is widely off the mark. The BBC has questioned the government intensively over its position on the war. The fact that it has not followed the government's line does give it some degree of credibility. Having worked in the States I can tell you that there is not one news channel in the US which comes even close to providing the kind of professional service that the BBC does. This is not one up manship, it is fact and being Australian I can assure you that I have no motive to favour one over the other. It is content and output at the end of the day.
I am not aware of any personal attacks, poking a little fun at your name and tearing your arguments apart does not amount to "ad hominem". If someone refutes your argument, do not take it personally for it is the issue at stake that matters. If I read something which I deem to be bullshit, then I will let you know, such as in this case.
Also, I asked you where you got your news from? But a yet you have not answered! Are you a journalist, amateur hack? Surely you should question your government's motives rather than accepting everything they tell you as verbatim. I have a little latin as well, not much but some. Perhaps we could spice things up and debate in french or German comme tu preferes! Be careful of whom you accuse of making "quasi intellectual stabs" when you put yourself forward they way you do, because believe me it wouldn't take long cutting you down to size.
Posted by: James at November 17, 2004 10:48 AM (4PPsx)
17
You are right about one thing though, the BBC is a publicly funded organisation. There are pros and cons to this but to suggest that it a mouthpiece for the government is widely off the mark.
I said they're a mouthpiece for the institutionalized left, not "the government," (although they are reliably "statist") to whom they're currently opposed. The fact that you don't grasp that rather obvious distinction tells me you aren't really "in the game."
I am not aware of any personal attacks, poking a little fun at your name and tearing your arguments apart does not amount to "ad hominem".
You haven't even addressed my arguments, let alone torn any apart. Basically what you've done is pretty much what your beloved BBC does. That is it simply effects an air of rhetorical superiority and assumes that's an argument. It's what all
ancien regimes do, from the lofty perch of their fantasy world.
One last thing, as a self proclaimed expert on all things foreign I would have thought a man(perhaps you are a woman, no offence intended regadless of your gender) as well informed as yourself would have known the difference between a toff and a sab. I didn't understand the remark at all in any context and a friend who is an English teacher could make head nor tail of it either, that is, neither of have a clue what you are talking about!
Well, I haven't proclaimed m'self an "expert on all things foreign." But beyond that I can't parse your language, so perhaps you should consult your english teacher again. You seem to be ambiguously saying that you understand that statement (you
could make head
nor tail of it," whatever that means), and you also seem to think I wrote it, in spite of the fact that I make it rather clear that I'm quoting a friend.
I expect what he's saying is that your run-a-the-mill leftist is both an elitist and a hypocrite about the very values that he/she loftily recommends to others. But his statement didn't make that point with nearly as much dramatic clarity as have you.
Be careful of whom you accuse of making "quasi intellectual stabs" when you put yourself forward they way you do, because believe me it wouldn't take long cutting you down to size.
Heh. I'm not even sure they rise to the "quasi-intellectual" level. More like quasi-arguments. I get my news from a variety of sources, right across the spectrum. The difference is that I don't give the statist sources (CBC, BBC, and some of the Arab press) as much credibility as they seem to believe they merit. And they've become so predictable that watching them is an exercise in staying awake.
By virtue of Tim Groseclose's Hoover media study we know that the average mainstream US media outlet is approximately a standard deviation to the left of the average American viewer (by two different but analogous independent metrics similar to the ADA scale). This, while Fox Special Report and Drudge come out less than a half a standard deviation to the right of the average viewer. Now, that tells me that if you genuinely want to cultivate an unbiased perspective relative to an American audience you ought to be watching about twice as much Fox as CBS.
And the various defamatory state medias, like the BBC, just have a certain novelty value... like watching a slow motion train wreck.
But the truth is, I get more and more of my news from the internet, especially regarding what's happening "on the ground" in Iraq, where BEEB reporters never tread in any case. There are numerous "milblogs" that include both direct accounts from the field as well as coherent discussion of strategy. I often wonder how one could possibly figure out what's going on in Iraq without reading The Belmont Club. You'd obviously assume things were going to hell in a handbasket if all you saw were MSM accounts. The notion that there are a series of towns stretching to the Syrian border that might represent the supply lines of the "insurgency" would simply shock the average BEEB viewer, becaues it suggests that the Coalition is actually using a coherent strategy to militarily destroy the enemy. And we all know, by definition,
that can't happen. Why history tells us that such feats haven't been possible for 2500 years, if at all. (Or was that the conquest of Afghanistan?)
Have you forgotten all the ominous hand-wringing that went on prior to that invasion? Well, that's human nature, I guess.
You guys are a hoot. Seriously. Now tell me again what an intellectual giant you are, compared to the rest of us meeses. I need a knee-slapper while I'm drinking my morning coffee and mate, in my neon PJs.
Posted by: Demosophist at November 19, 2004 08:40 AM (OtR16)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment