1 Dear Free Speech Supporter: British historian David Irving was arrested last Friday while on a speaking tour of Austria. He's charged with denying the "holocaust". In minority-dominated Europe, you can deny Jesus, you can deny that the earth is round, but you cannot question a carved-in-stone Hollywood version of World War II. In fact, you are not permitted to be a historian of WW II, only a propagandist for an establishment determined historical line. If you have any doubts or other opinions, you'd better shut up. The Associated Press (Nov. 17, 2005) reports: "Austrian police have arrested controversial British historian David Irving on a warrant accusing him of denying the Holocaust, the Interior Ministry said today. Irving was arrested last Friday in Styria province said police Maj. Rudolf Golia, a spokesman for the Interior Ministry, and transferred to judicial prison in Graz, the provincial capital. He was detained on a warrant issued in 1989 under Austrian laws making Holocaust denial a crime, Golia said." Freedom is desperately under attack across the Western World. Publisher Germar Rudolf has been deported from the U.S. to Germany, where he may face many years in prison for questioning some of the exterminationist assertions. The U.S.A, is awash in millions of Mexican illegals and hordes of foreign criminals, but the INS that has all but given up on the invaders, dutifully barks to the whistle of its neo-con, Israel First masters, and deportrs this studious scholar, married to a U.S. citizen and proud father of a nine-month old daughter. Publisher Ernst Zundel now faces a continuation of his trial in Mannheim too old, too involved with Ernst or for being a revisionist. His crime under Section 130 of the German Criminal Code, involves questioning the new secular religion's doctrine about WW II. David Irving is a prolific and highly readable WW II historian. His books on the Allied atrocities at Dresden, on Field Marshall Rommel, and on Churchill and Hitler (Churchill's War; Hitler's War) are classics. His original research has taken him to the archives of many countries and to interviews and diaries of many of the key participants and their staffs. Having run afoul of Canada's powerful Jewish lobby, Irving was banned from Canada in 1992 largely through the efforts of cabinet minister Gerry Weiner who just happened to be -- you guessed it -- a strident Zionist. Irving has since been banned from Australia, New Zealand, Germany and Soouth Africa. Mr. Irving's British lawyer Adrain Davies advises that Mr. Irving now has an Austrian lawyer and that he's been visited in prison by a representative of the British Foreign Office. You can help David Irving. Phone, FAX, write or e-mail the Austrian Emnassy in your country today. Let them know that their arrest of a historian is a disgrace. It's un-European. It's the sort of anti-intellectual behaviour we'd expect in some seedy Third World dictatorship. It's unworthy of the nation that gave us the music of Mozart and Beethoven and the culture of Vienna. Austrian Embassy in Canada, 445 Wilbrod St., Ottawa, ON, K1N 6M7 PH: 613-789-1444 FAX: 613-789-3431 e-mail: Ottawa-OB@BMaA.gv.at Austrian Embassy to the U.S.A., 3524 International Ct., N.W., Washington, D.C., 20008, U.S.A.

2 I"ll write a letter to the Austrian Embassy requesting that they hang the bastard. No, that would be too severe, so I say jail him and torture him. And the torture will be that he has to read Greg's bullshit for 8 hours a day for 7 days. That should do it! That would kill anybody.

3 Jesus, you are absolutely right, how can somebody deny the Jews (zionist) for their history off almost becoming extinct from this planet. People like that must be deported to the West Bank. For understanding what is was like! Dan

4 "It's the sort of anti-intellectual behaviour we'd expect in some seedy Third World dictatorship." Like, uh, I don't know, Cuba? But then Cuba is run by Castro (and for a while that hip cat named Che) and he wouldn't summarily imprison / execute anyone without a very, very good reason, so I guess it's not worth condemning.

5 Whether Irving is a "holocaust denier" remains unproven. That famous lawsuit in London ended up with only *six* lines from his books being questioned and much of that revolved around the definitions of words in German in 1940 or earlier. The six lines were winnowed out of at least 500,000 lines in his printed books (30 books) and recorded speeches. Even his detractors must admit that Irving has produced reams of evidence against the Nazis from original research, has always called Hitler and his regime "criminal," and has never written a book or article denying the Holocaust. His detractors point only to his famous claim that there is no evidence Hitler ordered or knew of the massacres of Jews. Well? If there is evidence, produce it. No one has. So we infer from the lack of evidence? He certainly does not belong in prison for holding unpopular idea. Anyway, check his website for yourselves: www.fpp.co.uk The BBC gives the following list: COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL Austria Belgium Czech Republic France Germany Israel Lithuania Poland Slovakia Switzerland

6 "His detractors point only to his famous claim that there is no evidence Hitler ordered or knew of the massacres of Jews. Well? If there is evidence, produce it. No one has." You're kidding, right? Hitler: ".. we have no intention of being emotional anti-Semites who want to create the atmosphere of a pogrom. Instead, our hearts are filled with an inexorable determination to attack the evil at its roots and to extirpate it root and branch. In order to reach our goal every means will be justified, even if we have to make a pact with the devil." [emphasis mine] Mein Kampf, as well, is riddled with such statements. He was fully aware of mass executions of Jewish people and to imply that he wasn't just because no one has quoted him as saying, "Kill them," is one of the most intellectually dishonest statements one can make. I will withhold comment regarding the free speech of holocaust deniers in other countries. But there is more to the story of Germar Rudolf than meets the eye in one news report. He has not been deported. They haven't ruled yet on his legal status here and won't even be reviewing it until next year.

7 Ya know, I have to kinda agree with dumbass on this one, just a little bit, but not for the same reason. If an unpopular opinion is outlawed, it takes on an air of legitimacy, and mushrooms out of control, breeding and replicating in the psychological fever swamps where are born Men In Black who use alien spacecraft to abduct Bigfoot from Area 51, which can neither be confirmed nor denied to exist. The reason free speech is the best policy is that it allows people to show themselves for the idiots they are, if they are so inclined. That the Holocaust happened cannot be denied, and that it has been used as a scourge against Christianity, democracy, Western civilization, and non-Jewish white people in general since it happened also cannot be denied either. There has been so much propaganda and disinformation since WW2, from all parties involved, that many actual facts have long since been discarded for profitable fiction, to the benefit of various parties, many of whom have no right to any benefits derived from reparations for crimes done in the name of a liberal socialist ideology.

8 Well, we know you (ghost) didn't write it so whose statement did you post? Was it Kurt? You want to be someone's mouthpiece (interesting word)but have some pride in whose. Actually, I myself have problems with European Denial Laws - less to do with Free Speech (its their countries and they control speech routinuely on many subjects which you would support). These laws are actually intended to distant themselves from the actions of their own peoples and government in the past. Kinda a CYA slight-of-hand change the direction of subject kind of thing.

9 I don't know of any reputable Revisionists who claim that the Holocaust never happened, in the sense that a lot of people died at the hands of the Nazis: The only questions are "How many" and "by what means?" That the Zionists are willing to use the state's monopoly on force to silence critics who question how many or in what manner, while not totally proof positive, still raises doubts about the veracity of all of their claims.

10 I always found it odd that although many ethnicities, religions, and nationalities suffered under the Nazis, and numerous millions died, all that popular history ever discussed was the Jewish Holocaust, as if they were the sole victims of the Nazi extermination campaign.

11 Boomerscout: Depends all on what you mean by "the Holocaust". It is noteworthy religious terminology and another attempt to shield it from scientific enquiry. Interesting is also that the promotion of "the Holocaust" usually targets the emotions of the audience. So I'd say this is extremely deceptive. Deception seems to be the primary method of anti-Revisionists: http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/holocaust/student_revisionists_letter_to_Nizkor.htm

12 The Holocaust was facilitated by the Jewish owned bank, Kuhn and Loeb, which helped finance Hitler. The plan was to cultivate the Holocaust into a cottage industry and parlay it into a Zionist Jewish State. Currently, the Zionist are making a grab for a Greater Israel. The very legitimacy of the Jewish State rests on the acceptance of the Holocaust story, as told by the Zionists. That is why Holocaust revisionists are considered so dangerous to them. While the truth can stand the light of day, dogma requires mind control, through laws, for its maintenance. Hence, the arrest of these historians.

13 This thread was suppose to be about the King of Jordan, right? His wife was some hottie eh? Oh, any picks for Sunday's games? A Jew, a Polack, A Mick, and a black guy go into this hardware store owned by an Eyety ... the Jew says ... What were we taking about?

14 I love it how the left think that they are so rebellious. They agitate to free the likes of convicted murderer Mumia Abu-Jamal while governments in the so-called "Free World" jail heretical historians and scientists (Germar Rudolph and David Irving). Maybe if Irving had black skin and natty dreads amnesty international might come to his aid? Oh no, they won't do that because he's not a political dissident, he's spreading "hate".

15 Holocaust denial is a crime, when you break the law you go to jail, simle as that. My grandfather liberated the camps while fighting for the Russians in the great patriotic war. I will take his word over the word of some jew hating nazi. Funny how all these revisionists seem to have something against Jews, they all seem to have ties to David Duke or some other racist scum, funny coincidense huh? I am glad Holocaust deniers are being rounded up. However, they do serve to keep the memory alive, I would not be surprised if they are secretly financed by some Jewish people, after all, they more than anyone are helping raise Holocaust awareness.

16 Yeah, back to KoJ; he was trained by US Special Forces and was head of Jordanian SF, he's no sucker like Asswad from Syria, and I betcha a dollar that Zaqueery has buggered his last goat.

17 Sijima, My troubled Jewess. These men aren't denying that holocausts occurred, They are questioning the magic number, 6,000,000. Declaring that only 5,999,999 Jews perished is a crime. What crap. You Zionists have learned well from your former masters, the Nazis.

18 Menezes, my fascist friend, The people who "question" the Holocaust are almost all anti-semites and almost all anti-semites are Holocaust deniers, hence obviously Holocaust denial is just an excuse to attack Jews. Ultimately it just helps keep the memory alive so these people are having an effect opposite of what they want. I think that anyone who commits a crime, deserves to spend some time in jail and think about what they did. Since racism is a mental disorder, I would probably favor putting these people in institutions to help them conquer the illness. Drugs, counseling, surgery, and electric shock therapy are very effective at curing other forms of dilusional paranoia and shizophrenia. Inside every racist there is a human being screaming for help. You dont have to spend the rest of your life as human garbage, hated by all of humanity, living on the fringe of soicety, you can get help, there are alot of ex-racist who overcame their affliction and became productive members of society.

19 Sijima, Good grief, you sound like a Zionist version of Dr. Joseph Mendelev with your calls for surgery, electric shock and drugging. By emulating your former masters, the Nazis, you have become what you hate. Fortunately, most Jews don't share your sickness; http://www.jppi.org/ inter alia. Were on to you. AIPAC has been exposed for the spies nest it is. This just won't go away: www.informationclearinghouse. info/article7545.htm (REMOVE SPACES) http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6890

20 we're

21 LOL, I am like Dr. Joseph Mendelev! You dumb redneck! Mendelev is the chemist who invented the periodic table, Mengele is the nazi doctor who loved murdering children. I guess I am really good and chemistry, thanks. You need to spend more time reading books and less time surfing nazi propoganda sites. Answer me one question: Why is it that the people who support racism are the trash of society? My theory is mental illness, you got a better one?

22 Yes, yes, you're quite correct. I was mistaken. You're are like Mengele when you call for surgery and reeducation as a remedy for thought crimes. Please expand on your ideas as they pertain to the use of surgery as intervention for thought crime. You are unbelievable. Don't you realize you got these ideas from the Nazis themselves? Sijimi:"Why is it that the people who support racism are the trash of society? My theory is mental illness, you got a better one?" I beg your pardon, I have not spoken a a racist word. You whining ZioNazis play the race card so deftly. Please respond to the accusation that AIPAC is a den of spies.

23 Sijima, Tell me about your love for muslims and Palestinians. Who are the true racists? "Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin

24 The Jewish War On Freedom Of Speech Corporate West causes terror in order to profit from it by John Kaminski ENGLEWOOD FL -- (OfficialWire) -- 11/19/05 -- One by one, those who oppose the manipulated Jewish version of history are being forcibly removed from society, and silenced because their views conflict with the program of mind-controlled slavery that has been meticulously crafted by the people who control the world by controlling the money. Four leading historical revisionists - first, Ernst Zundel; then, Siegfried Verbeke and Germar Rudolf; now, David Irving - are all under the gun in European courts, charged with crimes they are not even allowed to defend themselves against. But the worldwide Jewish assault on freedom of speech reaches much, much farther than that. A kangaroo court packed with Israeli settlers as witnesses is now roasting Palestinian benefactor Sami Al-Arian in Tampa. Anyone who realizes Sami's innocence (prosecution of him would not have been possible before the passage of the Patriot Act) and supports him suddenly receives a home visit from the FBI and IRS aimed at intimidating them into silence. The tactic works. Sami's support has dwindled. And at least two deposed leaders of nations - Slobodan Milosevic of Serbia and Saddam Hussein of Iraq - have through their words from unjust imprisonment risen to the status of heroes in the fight against the Jewish war machine that slaughters innocents in many countries around the world, and trumpets its right to pretend to an exalted, immune status that they insist non-Jews are simply not eligible for. Everything the Western press has said about both vilified characters has been deliberately twisted negatively. Media manipulation of the facts of history is the second-best weapon in the arsenal of the Jewish war machine. The first, of course, would be money. Orwell's "newspeak" thus arrives in nonfiction history couched in the language of the Jewish spy agency named the Anti-Defamation League. Anyone who questions the unprovable story of gas chambers in World War Two immediately gets slammed into jail, especially if you live in Germany or Canada, two satellite toadies to the Jewish-controlled U.S./UK/Israeli axis of evil now plundering the planet for profit. Jewish observers of these statements immediately lapse into their disingenuous fusillade of aspersions beneath the banner of their cynical credo - anti-semitism - most, without realizing that many millions of people now know of centuries-long plans by the world's elitist organizations - notably churches - to subvert and control the minds of the human citizens of this planet. The Jews are not without a very curious history of collapses of societies in which they have risen to prominence: Rome, Venice, Spain, Britain, Russia, Germany, and now, the United States. Today, new laws in most Western nations (arbitrary geographic divisions of the monolithic social force known as the Corporate West) prohibit even discussing such matters. The macabre legal phraseology the thought-controllers use is "defaming the memory of the dead." The great laugh in this, as one of my fellow alarmists once mentioned, is that the creators of this law may feign concern about the reputations of deceased martyrs, but they sure don't care much about the living, judging by other behavior by the same group. But this is no laughing matter. Because the real issue is freedom of speech for every person, and even more than that, it's about freedom of thought. Fact: In most countries of the Corporate West, you may not even consider that much-maligned assertion trumpeted with certainty by men with such intellectual integrity as Rudolf and Zundel, both of whom are dismissed as white supremacists and sequestered from the realm of human communication so the the rest of the world won't get the information Jews are so desperately trying to conceal - namely, about their perfidy during World War II and their control of the financial forces that allow them to unduly influence all of the major governments in the world. The dean of the Holocaust Revisionist movement, Robert Faurisson of France, has been expressing it best for almost 30 years. "Show me or draw me a Nazi gas chamber!" And in all that time, despite the ubiquitous and obscene hysteria of Jewish sewer tales, this evidence proving the existence of the Auschwitz gas chambers has yet to be brought forth for comprehensive public scrutiny. There can be only one answer to this mystery. Yet with calculated choruses of ritualized mourning, the new Jewish Holocaust religion creeps around the world, spread by the efforts of a powerful yet clandestine network of Jewish supremacists, stifling thought and promoting Jewish profligacy and poverty and misery for everybody else wherever it spreads. This is the result, despite the best efforts of the worldwide Jewish spin machine - which includes public schools and medical profession - of trying to convince us there was a deliberate policy of extermination of a certain ethnic group during World War II, and most importantly, that this is a tragedy that we should worship. No one quibbles that Jews died, although the actual number ranges all the way down to 875,000, a number once reported by the Associated Press. But it is the argument about the gassings, and other side issues that put the Jews in a bad light, that sends all these people to jail. To that end, hundreds if not thousands of Holocaust museums have sprung up across the United States, all funded by taxpayer dollars. Gee, imagine that? Whatever happened to separation of church and state? As trenchant Jewish critic Norman Finkelstein has pointed out, the Jewish community has made a mockery of decency by shoving this Holocaust worship down the throats of everyone else. Lenni Brenner and other relatively objective Jewish observers have chronicled the sorry role of international Jewish organizations complicit with Hitler in the manipulation of Europe's Jewish population for purposes of finagling a Jewish state in Palestine. Yet most Jewish critics of Jewish behavior continue to deny the basic fiction of the German gassings even as they bemoan the pathology of the Jewish proclivity to suggest that Jewish dead are somehow more valuable than non-Jewish dead. And anyone who tries to stand up to this thought-control tyranny, if they are in the truculent satellite countries of the Corporate West axis of evil, is immediately silenced and thrown into jail for saying things that are simply not allowed by our Jewish keepers. Perhaps an even worse effect is that hundreds of otherwise progressive news sources are effectively constrained from even reporting honestly on this very crucial issue to human development because of these insane hate speech laws regarding the Holocaust that are spreading around the world. Ironically, the real hate speech comes from the very people who passed these laws. The assertion that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers by Germans does not stand in the light of critical and objective scrutiny, and never has. It is only the Zionist spin machine, which controls far more of your thought than you know, insisting on the fiction, repeating the propaganda, that has allowed this mistaken idea to take hold in the public mind. Call it the Lee Harvey Oswald principle. It is merely a twisted legend of remembered misery fostered by a self-referential hysteria based upon an ancient edict that declares one random group of people in the desert are, in perpetuity, so vastly superior to every other group of humans on the planet that they may commit any crime against any non-Jew without penalty. And this is precisely the madness that today has our world in a death grip. Humans are decent people, not robotoids who need to be molded by social forces into banal, braindead docility. The infinite flower that is the human individual should be nurtured and cherished, not controlled, abused and murdered for reasons that are lies. Ladies and gentlemen: Some few of you already know this, but most of you don't. Especially note the number of apparently progressive publications who will not run this story because it mentions Jews. Do you now realize you yourself are a prisoner in the Jewish war on freedom of speech? As you sit there on your couch reading, in your comfortable home, watching a Hollywood movie, eating corporate food, believing in a groovy, synthetic god, sucking down an aspartame-laden Diet Coke, do you have any idea of what the poet William Blake once called "mind-forg'd manacles?" Be careful what you think. You could be jailed for it at any time, especially if what you think is about Jews. This is the new American way. I wonder where it came from. John Kaminski is a writer who lives on the Gulf Coast of Florida. For more information visit www.johnkaminski.com.

25 Sorry for keeping off the topic of Jordan, but.... There are many who have no problem with Scooter Libby being indicted for lying about something he was never charged with. But let one guy get arrested for possible visa violations even though it was likely brought about because of dangerous speech and everyone's in an uproar. Does anyone see the hypocrisy here? Henry Barth qouted: "The assertion that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers by Germans..." (The rest of the article is really pathetic in defending Milosevic and Hussein among other things. I sincerely question whose mind is under control here.) That one quote was crafted in such a way to ellicit a certain emotion or thought. Let's be clear about it. It's estimated that six million people of many nationalities and beliefs died under Nazi policies. Primarily Jews. They were worked and starved to death, they lived under inhumane conditions which promoted disease which killed them, they were gassed, they were experimented on by insane doctors led by Mengeles, they were shot - this is only a few causes of death for many millions. And some are arguing about whether the logistics and technicalites allowed for what ever number may have died in any given gas chamber? Disgusting.

26 As long as it is alleged "against the Nazis", everything seems to go. No proof needed. The six million is not an estimate - it is simply propaganda. Claims of homicidal gassings are rumors at best - What is shown as "gas chambers" in Auschwitz were simply morgues for corpses. If they'd like others to believe the morgues were used for homicidal purposes, they should come up with some valid forensic evidence. Note: start another thread, if it's off topic here. "Holocaust denial" is a smear term trying to install some prejudices into a debate. Revisionists do not "deny", they question or dispute specific claims. This is by no means more a crime then questioning or disputing the alleged reality of fairies, ghosts or witches riding on broom sticks.

27 There are few subjects that can bring the nuts out of the woodwork like the Holocaust, and greg, as always, afraid that someone might think he's actually not a pathetic little troll living in his mother's basement, rises to the challenge. It was actually a Halliburton/neocon/JOOOOOOOish conspiracy to gas the JOOOOOOS, right greg?

28 Hendrick, God, man, our own soldiers saw with there own eyes what was going on in these camps. Please quit trying to protect these Nazi scum. And millions of other people were killed, too, including gypsys, Poles, Russians, the handicapped, the mentally ill, etc. 20 million of them!

29 Joe"And millions of other people were killed, too, including gypsys, Poles, Russians, the handicapped, the mentally ill, etc. 20 million of them!" Precisely Joe, Israel does not own the term, "Holocaust". Joe:'God, man, our own soldiers saw with there own eyes" Did our soldiers count to 6 million? How many fingers do they have?

30 howie My apologies - howie set up this thread comment and it was immediately hijacked. If you got an issue post your own fuckin' thread! Not only is this rude and disrepectful to howie - its the blog way to tell him to get out of the way and go fuck himself! When I see this happening I will respond (if at all) with meaningless satire and jokes and ignore the idiots that started this. I wish others would do the same. Now its Sunday - who likes who in what game matchups.

31 @Jesusland, spare as warming up old propaganda stories. No historian would claim today that Dachau or Belsen were indeed "Extermination camps" (a postwar term). What "our soldiers" saw there was the result of an economically collapsing Germany. People were starving because there were no more supplies going to those camps. Not because there was any policy to get them killed. In Auschwitz btw the Red Army found many healthy and well fed prisoners. However exterminationists claim that Auschwitz was an "extermination camp". Guess someone needs to get his story straight.

32 The Holocaust as it is understood is itself merely a conspiracy theory! The presumption that there was a German govenment-initiated, premeditated program to murder European Jewry in toto is wholly contentious (functionalism vs intentionalism) and the murder weapon which represents the culmination of that conspiracy (the homicidal vs disinfestation gas chamber) is also wholly contentious due to the established absense of gassing compound residue in the rooms presented as homicidal gas chambers (see "Germar Rudolf"-related news articles on Google News). In the end, the mandated understanding of the Holocaust is a state-sanctioned political conspiracy that fits in perfectly with the machinations of the political world order- it is socially and politically desirable. The revisionist scholars are victims of opposition to the state ideology, not unlike the political prisoners that filled concentration camps in WWII or under Stalin. Freedom of speech has been lost and totalitarian control has once again taken root unnoticed within our modern "democratic" society.

33 Holocaust denial is not history. Irving has been discredited as a historian, he was already on trial and failed to defend his beliefs. He was exposed as am antisemite and is no longer considered a historian. Holocaust denial is something that exists only omong fascists, not one historian in the world believes that stuff. The few "historians" that did support the racist theory were discredited as sharlatans and hate mongers (Zundel, Irving, Luchter (sp?)). Until revisionists can find one single credible historian to support the jibberish, they will be seen for what they are: a badly thought out racist ploy.

34 Blah, blah, blah....Hendrick. I've seen and heard all this before, and been in these arguments ad infinium. Your belief is your business, but mine is mine, and it is supported by history. Methinks all this propaganda is nothing more than neo-fascism. I ain't buying it!

35 Joe, You are completely missing the point, you may agree or disagree with the 6,000,000 figure... But should people be imprisoned for thought crime? That's the question at issue.

36 Taking the question further, if you believe in imprisonment for thought crime, please define thought crime. Finally, if you come up with a definition and argue for imprisonment, are you willing to take it one step further and neuter the human spirit by utilizing surgery and other invasive means, as Sijima has argued for?

37 And we have heard the "neo-fascist" and "racist" monikers over and over ad infinitum (yawn). It matters not what inspires a researcher, only whether his researches are interesting. You don't seem to have a problem with scholars that swear on the Talmud or the fact that the same Jewish lobbyists that call for imprisonment and dispossession of revisionists also condemn racially mixing Jewish blood. That is also irrelevent, ultimately. Revisionism as a disciplinary study was sparked by left-wing radicals in France. Rassinier, Faurisson, Thion etc. and is also evident in Germany (Fritjof Meyer) etc. There are others that don't fit the racist characterization. Yes, Faurisson is critical of political Jewry today, but that is because he too has suffered under the draconian laws that they have pushed through in France and he is identifying the political lobbyists that have instigated the totalitarian "history" of the present. If ever there was a subject in the history of the humanities that is deserved of careful scrutiny it is the Holocaust. No tenured professor is likely to investigate the merits of the revisionist arguments because you know that he would also be persecuted ipso facto. Look at poor Joel Hayward. His life was ruined also- until he fully renounced his thesis. And he is part-Jewish, I believe. The persecution of free-thinkers is a crime against humanity.

38 November 15, 2005 Menuhin's son forced to resign over 'anti-Semitic' interviews From Roger Boyes in Berlin THE son of the violinist and humanist Yehudi Menuhin has been ousted as head of the German branch of his father’s foundation because of his extreme right-wing views. Gerard Menuhin, 57, caused uproar by suggesting that Germany was being blackmailed by an international Jewish conspiracy preying on the country’s war guilt. He was forced to resign as chairman of the Yehudi Menuhin Foundation (YMF) in Germany, which was established to encourage the musical talent of young immigrants. “It was a logical and comprehensible decision in this re-educated land,” Mr Menuhin, an Old Etonion who lives in Switzerland and Britain, said. “But I’m not going to change my opinions because of it.” Mr Menuhin is one of two sons of the violinist with his second wife, the British dancer Diana Rosamond Gould, and he has taken over a number of family responsibilities. Apart from his chairmanship of the YMF in Dusseldorf, he sits on the board of the Menuhin Festival in Gstaad. Until now his political views have barely registered with the outside world even though he has a regular column in the Munich-based ultra-nationalist National Zeitung. One of his more vitriolic columns condemned Jewish “souvenir hunters” who gather evidence in Germany to help them to lodge financial claims for wartime persecution. “Apart from a few curious comments about America, we weren’t really aware of his politics,” Winfried Kneip, YMF’s chief executive, said. Mr Menuhin outed himself as a clear sympathiser with the neo-Nazi cause in two published interviews this month. In Deutsche Stimme, voice of the National Party of Germany, he used classical anti-Semitic language while still staying within the boundaries of German law. “An international lobby of influential people and organisations is trying to keep the Germans under pressure,” he said. “Some nations — mainly America, but other Europeans, too — are profiting from an obedient Germany.” It was unfair, he said, that Germany should continue to be punished for its Nazi past. “The main tool of this endless blackmail was supplied by the Germans themselves, although the tainted period of 12 years really was only 12 years in over 2,000 years of immaculate development.” The Menuhin family is descended from Russian Jews, and Baron Menuhin of Stoke d’Abernon, who became a life peer in 1993, was regarded as a great humanist who worked to bring communities together. Hence the shock that his son should let himself be fêted by German parties that stir up sentiment against foreigners and often glorify the Nazis. In an interview with the National Zeitung, organ of the German Peoples’ Union, Mr Menuhin called on Germans to stop paying taxes and thus protest at the outflow of German funds to the European Union. “People cannot be eternally exploited in this way,” he said, “as long as there is a budget deficit, no German public money should flow abroad.” Mr Menuhin, who describes himself as a film producer and writer, is something of a maverick within the family. “He was the least musically gifted,” a family friend said, “and he suffered from that emotionally.” There has, in fact, been a history of family sympathy for German nationalists. Mr Menuhin’s grandfather, Moshe, was a determined anti-Zionist and expounded his views in the National Zeitung; he was arts editor from 1968 to 1970 although he was aware of its extreme German nationalism. He left the job only because the paper was not anti-Zionist enough. Lord Menuhin earned applause from German Nationalists when he played with the conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler, who had been a Nazi supporter. But Lord Menuhin’s point was to demonstrate that music can heal wounds. German nationalists, however, regarded the gesture as being something more, a sign of understanding for those who believed in national socialism. That, and the dedication of some concerts to the plight of German refugees from the East, gave the Menuhin family some standing among German rightwingers. Although Lord Menuhin had humanitarian motives, Gerard appears to have interpreted his father’s gestures as a family blessing for his nationalist opinions. The Yehudi Menuhin Foundation in Germany was set up by the violinist shortly before his death in Berlin in 1999. Its brief is “to use art to teach peaceful coexistence to children in social crisis areas with high immigrant populations”. HOW DISCORD WAS SOWN On a Jewish conspiracy: “An international lobby of influential people and organisations is trying to keep the Germans under pressure . . .” “Some nations — mainly America, but Europeans too — are profiting from an obedient Germany . . . Those claiming to speak in the name of (Holocaust) victims have better networks than those representing other groups of survivors. Just think of the survivors of murdered Cambodians, American Indians or the Armenians. I am not the only Jew who thinks in this way . . .” On the need for a greater role for the far Right: “The radical parties have to speak a clear language, offer alternatives, especially now that the parties of the centre are virtually indistinguishable and lack courage or solutions . . .” On the EU: “The European Union has swollen to gigantic proportions — a monster that is swallowing vast sums, most of which are paid for by Germany”

39 Mendez, I dont know or care to know anything about AIPAC, if someone commited a crime, he wll be sent to jail. I suspect the Begin quote is fake, give me a CREDIBLE source to prove it otherwize (preferably in the original language). Also I dont see how either one is related to our discussion, stay on topic. You ask if its humane to use counseling / drugs / EST / surgery/institutionalization to cure racism, I think it is. Racism is a mental illness like any other and should be treated likewize. Shizophrenics that are deemed dangerous to themselves or others are put into mental homes. They are given counseling to work out their problems, if they are violent they may be given drugs but 99% volunteer to take the medication. Thousands of Americans every year volunteer for electric shock therapy, it looks gruesome but it helps with depression and other severe illnesses, many people chose EST when the alternative is chronic depression or suicide. In extreme cases people ask for surgery to the frontal cortex which helps remove some kinds of depression, contrary to popular rumors these surgeries do not produce big behavioral changes, though some small problems may appear, again its better than suicide. Racism, antisemitism, Holocaust denial is not anyhow related to free speech. Its mental illness, take a paranoid shizophrenic's rant about the mutated squirles that can read his thoughts, and replace the squirles with Jews, and you get a David Duke speech. If I run around Time Square screaming about super intelligent potatoes that are controling the media, I will be locked up in the loony bin. Insane ramblings are not free speech and locking luntatics up is not censorship. Now answer my question, why is it that the trahs of humanity has no problem believing revisionists, while intellectual people that think critically of authority and government dont? And why is it that NOT ONE SINGLE HISTORIAN supports revisionism?

40 Sijima: You simple minded piece of shit. Racist are trash of society. People with a name of Sijima are the real scum sucking trash of society. You son of garbage breeding. I am an American of Norweigan/Swede heritage and proud of it. I am a racist for damn good reason. What the fuck are you. Bet you are so ashamed of what you are that you will not truthfully say it. You low life. Who do you think you are? Racists rule. Racists are the only truthful people left on this planet. Asshole.

41 Oh Lord, look who crawled out from under his rock. It's KKKlan Rooster. But Sijima, not even Rooster deserves a FORCED lobotomy, which is what you advocated in your original rant. Even Klansmen deserve a voice.

42 Sajima:"I suspect the Begin quote is fake, give me a CREDIBLE source to prove it otherwize (preferably in the original language)." The credible source is none other than the 39th President of The United States, Jpmmy Carter. I choose to believe President Carter over your revisionist friends. The original language was a heavily accented English.

43 *Jimmy Carter

44 You still fail to provide a source. When someone asks for a source it means you have to link to a CREDIBLE website that has this quote. Carter said it? Sure. Now show me where he said it.

45 Lay off greyrooster he's a nice guy.

46 The MSM are a bunch of chickenshits. They don't even report on the 1967, Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, when 34 brave American sailors were butchered and 180 others maimed. Israel first denied that they had attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, blaming Egypt instead. In the face of incontrovertible evidence, they sheepishly admitted that it was "an accident". That's a lie. Only a miracle prevented that ship from splitting in two when a torpedo ripped into its bow. Israel was attemting to provoke the U.S. into war as they have done in Iraq and hope to do in Iran and elsewhere. Precious American blood spilled in the name of Zionism. What a waste.

47 So you dont have a source? You just made that quote up on the spot? Great, this kind of slander is what gets revisionists in jail.

48 howie I commend your calm approach. I would have pulled the plug on this thread long ago and sent them all to the History Channel board (All Hitler, All the Time).

49 Notice sijima didn't respond and tell us truthfully who and what he is. Typical of his type. Ashamed to be what he is so he attacks others that aren't.

50 Sijima doesn't need to explicitly identify her heritage. She is a Zionist.

51 Well, this one time I have to agree with Greg on the free speech part of his argument. I would in no way support the use of drugs, surgery, electric shock or any other means, including reeducation, racial sensitivity training, diversity training, or any other action that would stifle free speech. Hope Greg sticks to his free speech meme!

52 Every word Jimmah, like every other traitorcrat, has ever spoken is a lie, including with, and, for, if, to, and but.

53 Larry Darby Attorney at Law P. O. Box 3905 Montgomery, AL 36109 Tel. 334-270-8223 November 21, 2005 Her Excellency Eva Nowotny Republic of Austria 3524 International Court N.W. Washington, D.C. 20008 Your Excellency: It is disturbing that British historian David Irving, an erudite scholar on matters pertaining to World War Two, has been imprisoned by the Republic of Austria. What is his crime? His honest pursuit of truth? What is wrong with that picture? Has anyone been harmed by Mr. Irving’s endeavors to honestly report events occurring some 6 or 7 decades ago? The real harm by your country’s actions is denial of an inalienable right of humans - that of liberty of speech, which covers the concepts of free inquiry, free expression and free thought. Jewish Supremacists and other enemies of liberty of speech around the globe are gloating over your country’s action but advocates for genuine liberties for individuals are shocked, once again, that a man can go to jail for his opinions. I know Mr. Irving personally, having hosted him at a presentation in Prattville, Alabama on July 6. He is not the monster that one might be led to believe if one relies on mass media reporting or propaganda from persons who profit from popular notions about mass deaths of innocents in Europe. I urge you to deliver the message to your government that Mr. Irving has a lot of support in the United States and that in the name of liberty and justice for all, including people who offend powerful and wealthy interests, Mr. Irving should be released immediately. Further, is it not time to repeal all such laws that suppress liberty of speech, often called hate crime laws? Perhaps the Republic of Austria will use this unfortunate event as a catalyst to lead Europe out of decades of such intellectual darkness. A new age of enlightenment is desperately needed and your nation might lead the way. In the United States we face a similar situation with enemies to liberty promoting more hate laws. I am seeking the Democratic nomination for Alabama Attorney General. See the attached press release, my first, in which I speak of the plight of Mr. Irving and other victims of oppressive governments that will not trust their citizens to hear dissent and decide matters for themselves. I look forward to your reply and a favorable action by the Republic of Austria. For Light and Liberty, Larry Darby +++ LARRY DARBY FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL P. O. BOX 3722 MONTGOMERY AL 36109 TEL. 334-324-7545 Response to Calls for More “Hate Crime” Legislation – 18 November 2005 Montgomery attorney and candidate for the Democratic nomination for Alabama Attorney General, Larry Darby opposes recent calls by Rep. Alvin Holmes and others to amend the state’s “hate crime” laws to include anti-gay attacks; instead, Darby urges more reasonable leaders to act to repeal all such existing laws. Hate crime laws are contrary to Sections 1 (Equality and rights of men), 3 (Religious freedom) and 4 (Freedom of speech) of the Alabama Constitution, inter alia, as well as the US Constitution. Calls for expanded hate crime laws followed reports of Billy Sanford being attacked allegedly for homosexual aggression by Sanford against Marcus Kelley. While unjustifiable acts of violence are wrong and adequately punishable under existing law, hate crime laws are not necessary and in fact violate fundamental individual freedoms, particularly free speech, which includes the rights to free inquiry and freedom of opinion. Hate crime laws subtly allow for and will eventually lead to punishment for holding unpopular opinions, effectively establishing an Orwellian Ministry of Truth. The Legislature should not enact laws that can be used to prosecute citizens who challenge popular political notions or otherwise engage in free expression of ideas that others find offensive, including faith-based views against homosexuality. By repealing all hate crime laws the Legislature will demonstrate a commitment to protection of fundamental liberties for individuals, possibly leading other states to reject similar laws, preventing the loss of liberty of speech citizens in Europe and Canada have lost. Another way of looking at this is that hate crime laws are a revival of blasphemy laws, where you can be punished solely for your opinions. If you subscribe to the wrong religion or no religion at all, hate crime laws put you at risk. Ake Green, a Pentecostal pastor, was prosecuted under Sweden’s hate laws for preaching that homosexuality is a violation of the Jewish commandments (157-159) of the Old Testament. Dieudonne M’Bala M’Bala, a French comedian and atheist was prosecuted in France for pointing out that Judaism is the source of racism (chosen people of God). British historian David Irving has been detained in Austria for allegedly denying “the holocaust.” Former Tennessee resident Ernst Zundel is in a jail in Germany today because his speech offended people who had the power to enforce hate laws. Whether or not an opinion is offensive must be irrelevant to the law. As Alabama’s Attorney General, Larry Darby will work with the Legislature to insure that existing or proposed laws are constitutional and just. The Alabama Legislature must act to guard against the insidious nature of hate laws or legislation.

54 Once again, Holocaust denial is at best hatemongering, at worst its a mental disorder. Lunatics are not covered by the first amendement. Believing that mutated vegetables control the media and screaming that in the streets will get you locked up. Locking these cretins in jail to be beaten by guards and raped by prisoners is a temporary and inhumane solution, these people are just sick. Counseling, medication and all other methods used on mental patients (EST, surgery) are the only real cure. PS: I am not a Zionist sweetheart, looks like you are making up information again (where is that Begin quote again?)

55 Sijima, Those were the methods used at the so-called psychiatric hospitals in the old Soviet Union. If someone wants to deny the holocaust, then that is their business. Frankly, I doubt the success of the methods you suggest, and am convinced using them would cause way more harm than a few people denying the holocaust ever could. The methods would cause resentment, anger, agitation, and would lead to the worst kind of hate based on the idea of persecution and martyrdom. We all know where that has led.

56 An excellent source for information on the "Holocaust industry" is the website of Professor Norman Finkelstein. Norman G. Finkelstein received his doctorate in 1988 from the Department of Politics, Princeton University, for a thesis on the theory of Zionism. He currently teaches political theory at DePaul University in Chicago. http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/ Another excellent source is the American Council for Judaism: http://www.acjna.org/ Neither site could possible be called anti-Semitic –

57 The most famous revisionist in the world, David Irving, has renounced some of his views after his arrest. http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051124/w112444.html He now believes that the key revisionist lie that there were no gas chambers in nazi concentration camps is false. Very enlightened of him, this shows that anti-Holocaust denial laws work. He would never repent if he wasnt forced to defend his lie. This is another death blow to an already dead ideology. Holocaust deniers are scrambling to retreat to a more plausible position: Gas chambers existed, but were not used to kill Jews, this lie will be discredited in due time. For now it is nice to see that holding hatemongers accountable for their actions will yield results. Irving must now pay for his crimes by spending some time behind bars, an exellent opportunity to write that anti-revisionist book he has been planning :~)

58 dsfdf