December 18, 2005
U.S. Marines Going More Extreme - In Hand To Hand Combat
If Col. Shusko has his way, every Marine -- and everyone near them -- will benefit from the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP). Unlike men and women in the other branches of the armed forces, every Marine is taught how to fight hand-to-hand, up close and personal.
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For the first time in the U.S. military, an effort has been made to combine the most effective techniques of martial-arts disciplines from around the world into a single course of study -- MCMAP.Semper Fi - my Marine Corp is becoming just a bit more extreme ...At the Marine Corps Martial Arts Center of Excellence, fighting instruction is merged with character-building lessons as a new breed of warrior is forged.
Posted by: Richard@hyscience at
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Agent Smith is chasing a guy who claims he knows kung fu.
Posted by: Agent Smith at December 18, 2005 06:54 AM (+5j5X)
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My first choice was and is the bayonet. My second choice is the Kbar. Hand to hand to me indicates desperation. Not that I did not get desperate at times. It is good in a bar but in a real war it sucks.
an old exJarhead
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 18, 2005 06:58 AM (yONeR)
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Check out a funny site dedicated to the absurdity and satire nature of saying "It's All George Bush's Fault!"
http://www.itsallgeorgebushsfault.com
Regards,
Notta Libb
Posted by: Notta Libb at December 18, 2005 07:06 AM (IRfdO)
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PS - While a boot I thought all the DI’s were sadistic S’soB’s. I thought that a lot of what they made us do was sheer bullying. After 8 JFK tours in Nam (actually only one Naval tour, but 4 times as much time “in country” as JFK’s “two” tours) I had a very different opinion. I wish they had been a little (not a lot) tougher. I completely agree with the Lt.Col that “the more you sweat in training the less you bleed in combat.”
Most of us were well prepared for war thanks to Boot Camp and ITR. I think maybe the draftees in the Army were not. What do you former “Doggies” say?
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 18, 2005 07:29 AM (yONeR)
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absolute badasses.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at December 18, 2005 08:34 AM (8e/V4)
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Its true! You can break a wood board with a jarhead's head! I know - I've done it!
Posted by: hondo at December 18, 2005 11:27 AM (3aakz)
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I have just finished reading a book that is about martial arts training for the U.S Special Forces, amazingly they do not teach "roundhouse" kicks, "footsweeps" or even Mr. Miyagi's devastating "Crane kick" wtf?!
Seriously, however, the criteria for the selection of certain Martial arts techniques for Special Forces is based on:
Physical condition: If a soldier is using martial arts to escape and evade the techniques must take into account his probable physical condition: tired and nearing exhaustion.
Means: Martial arts for elite soldiers must be mission specific, which specifically means causing debilitating injury or death.
Time: Limited and flexible training that can be tailored for maximum adaptability.
Body: Techniques should not require any special changes in the body, for this reason high taekwon do kicks would be avoided.
Memorable: maintained with minimum time, and effort.
I should imagine the Marines adopt such a program.
Posted by: dave at December 18, 2005 11:34 AM (CcXvt)
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There's an excellent show on the History Channel called "Shootouts", and many accounts are based on Marine small engagements in Iraq. I'm telling you, those boys are absolute badasses. Combat marines aren't like you and me.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at December 18, 2005 11:43 AM (8e/V4)
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Its called Combatives - nothing fancy - 3 levels - its incorportated into training on MOS need only - not general service. You can however pursue it on your own reguardless of field.
It ain't pretty or stylish - just down & dirty and very very crippling and lethal.
Posted by: hondo at December 18, 2005 11:50 AM (3aakz)
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Hopefully sailors (like me) can opt-in, but I doubt it. It sucks the other branches can't go through hardcore training (except for Seals, but I hate cold water). At my last command I sought to do martial arts with the Marines, but I was shot down.
Posted by: Tom at December 18, 2005 12:41 PM (cUb/i)
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Hondo - you lie! No one who did that has ever lived to tell the story!
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 18, 2005 03:41 PM (yONeR)
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Inter-service rivalies ... I've got lots of stories ... and we always save the best for the Marines!
An Army PFC and a Marine Gunnery Sgt are in an airport in transit - both go to the bathroom to take a pee ...
Gunny ignores the Army PFC ...
After they pee, Gunny washes his hands while the Army PFC heads for the door ...
Gunny sarcastically remarks "Ya know boy - in the Marines they teach us to wash our hands after peeing!"
The Army PFC responds ...
"Well Gunny, in Army Basic they told us not to piss on our hands or they'd transfer ya to the Marines."
There are multiple variations - all with Gunny.
Posted by: hondo at December 18, 2005 04:05 PM (3aakz)
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Hondo - ROTFLOL
an old exJarhead
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 18, 2005 08:29 PM (yONeR)
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A prominent ex-SEAL's opinion:
A point should be made here about the way Americans tend to regard the act of killing. Like most of my generation, I grew up on Western movies where the hero--Hopalong or Roy or Gene--chivalrously tosses his gun aside after the black-hatted villain runs out of bullets and subdues the bad guy with his bare fists. This may work on celluloid, but not in real life. In real life you shoot the m[]f[]er and you kill him dead--whether or not he is armed; whether or not he is going for his gun; whether he looks dangerous or appears benign. That way, you stay alive and your men
stay alive. Many of our senior officers do not believe this. They would rather that *we* got killed than our enemies did. That attitude is stupid and it is wrong.
-- Richard Marcinko, _Rogue Warrior_, 1992
Elsewhere in the same book he scorns martial arts, saying that if you were having to duke it out with an enemy you must have f'd up your mission big time.
Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at December 18, 2005 10:29 PM (ZpL55)
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Don't confuse Martial Arts which are a sport and art form judged by style with Combatives. In all my years I have never seen the Martial Arts viewed as anything more than a physical training and fitness tool.
Posted by: hondo at December 18, 2005 10:51 PM (3aakz)
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The Army also teaches combatives. Have been since [at least] Viet nam. They also teach that 'hand-to-hand' is a last resort technique. Forget the macho bs, real soldiers kill with the best available weapon and have no compuction about it.
To paraphrase my Army SSgt [and combat veteran] son; "In the Marines they teach jarheads how to die; in the Army they teach us how to fight to win and then fight another day."
Posted by: Charlie at December 19, 2005 08:36 AM (2ZhL/)
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As an Army veteran( Viet Nam era) What do you guys think of this Krav Maga? The Israelies teach it to the civilians since they are always under attack. I think some of our troops are taught it today. I just don't know much about it. Hey in combat you do what is necessary to survive. I have the deepest respect for every branch I ever met.Each one has good guys and ass holes alike.
Posted by: Jim B. at December 19, 2005 06:26 PM (etD1T)
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Yes Hondo, multiple variations dating back to George Washington.
God bless the Marine Corps. First in every thing.
Posted by: greyrooster at December 21, 2005 04:40 AM (pSK/I)
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Unlike men and women in the other branches of the armed forces, every Marine is taught how to fight hand-to-hand, up close and personal.
I have to respectfully disagree. The new Army Combatives Training plan was pieced together by the 4th Ranger Training Brigade, with the consult of Royce Gracie. This new Army Combative Plan is heavily steeped in Brazilian Jujitsu. Much better than the 1930's era fisticuffs that I was taught when I first joined the service.
Posted by: Dkelsmith at December 21, 2005 01:01 PM (a3ksX)
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