to rattle the marbles around in my head by speculating what I really have against socialism. I actually have nothing against the
of socialism, to tell the truth. That is, I have no investment at all, on a personal level, in whether all boats rise at the same rate or at different rates. Furthermore, if work has intrinsic value then there's something rather admirable about the notion that work-as-labor might be divorced from income sources. People work for reasons other than money, otherwise no one would become a teacher or a college professor.
Besides, it seems to me that it may well be necessary to provide people with income during periods when the economy is unable to place them where they can best contribute by exploiting their labor, at least to a level that sustains SFC (shelter, food and clothing). Not doing so might well be less efficient than we imagine, since the economy doesn't need the same skills at the same rate throughout its history. Thus, if we lose certain people whose labor we don't happen to value at the moment they won't be available when their contributions are important, or even critical, to everyone's survival. The only other option would be to issue humans an "off" switch so they might go into hybernation during periods when they aren't needed. But the Creator didn't see fit to provide us with those, so "social insurance" makes some straightforward sense. After all it was a Republican administration that proposed the "guaranteed minimum wage" suggested by Milton Friedman's "negative income tax."
Frankly it might be interesting to just distribute income blindly, ignoring both need and "ability," and turn the whole thing into a lottery. But that would be a tough sell to anyone who's doing OK in the present system. By and large we're more motivated by fear of loss than attraction to gain. This is important, because it's the way we're actually "wired," not some vague ideological abstraction.
Contrary to what many people believe it wasn't LBJ who originally coined the term "The Great Society." It was F.A. Hayek, who used it to describe a not-so-great society composed mostly of strangers. By "great" he simply meant writ-large and choked with anonymity, not admirable. In doing so he acknowledged a lot of things, one of which is that charity and commerce between individuals who know one another is bound to be the exception. Nor did he feel that "the market" necessarily produces the most efficient distribution of labor and goods. Indeed, he argued that a market would be inappropriate if we knew that that it produced optimality with certainty. It's precisely because we do not know what "optimum efficiency" is that markets are appropriate. (This is one of those Hayekian arguments that'll make you cross-eyed if you think about it too much.)
In fact, although Hayek recognized that there was a problem, he made no consistent attempt to derive a solution because he saw (as Patrick suggests in his post) that the solution we have siezed upon (the Welfare State) is bound to create even bigger problems. That was his priority, and the driving force behind his work. Hence, we are not talking about an ideal economy, but a choice between evils. And that's where Hayek left it, pretty much. He never wrote the last chapter of his grand plan, and never intended to. He was a liberal after all, not an Hegellian.
However, society has now developed to the point that we may not be able to tolerate even the "lesser evil" of possible wealth maldistribution for much longer. The reason is the rapid development of the "super-empowered individual" who may, at some point, be able to exercise his will to veto the future for the rest of us should he get too angry. This is ultimately the long term reality that we will have to confront, and it demands a new version of Liberalism.
So, a Hayek or Smith-inspired laissez faire economy may not be a "happy medium" we'll be able to live with in the future. We may very well have to meddle in the economy in some pragmatic and enlightened way. And the way I see it there are two general classes of solutions that we might employ, by mixing and matching at different times and to different degrees. One is a kind of demogrant system for wealth distribution, that's somewhat analogous to Nixon's (Friedman's) GMW. Ideally if the economy were sufficiently productive we could simply grant everyone an allowance sufficient to sustain life, and then let the market take it from there. James Buchanan was recently working on a book about a flat tax combined with a demogrant, so the idea is not anathema to liberalism, or even libertarianism. He calls it the "generality principle."
The other solution is to find a way to turn laborers into capitalists, by enabling more and more people to become invested in the capital market through innovative finance. Pat Moynihan worked on those kinds of projects for much of his career in the Senate, and the concept figures into some of the bold economic reforms in Chile that were inspired by the "Chicago Boys." Combining the flat-tax/demogrant idea with some of these innovative financing concepts in order to get people invested in the market (and by the way, turning them into permanent Republicans) is probably the way of the future, should the "political class" ever get around to doing something useful.
1
I like the take of the greatest of all the Brits(Winston Churchhill) on Socialism, Marxism, etc.:
Captitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.
Socialism, et als are the equal sharing of misery.
That's about the best I've ever heard it put.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 08:29 PM (rUyw4)
2
History shows us that because of human nature socialism doesn't work. It is wishful thinking, not reality. Sort of like visualizing world peace (with no army in the wings, waiting). Interesting thing about capitalism is that despite its selfish underpinnings, much "good for the whole" is achieved. Contrast this to socialism which - despite altruistic underpinnings - results in a low standard of living for the many and , because of corruption, enrichment for only a few.
Posted by: Patty at January 17, 2006 09:54 PM (aH6Zf)
3
My dear Demosophist, I am flattered that I got those marbles rolling around in your head. Let's face it - you've gotten my marbles rolling more than vice versa. My hatred of socialism is not intellectual but from first-hand experience living in Europe for 8 years. The opposite of socialism is not capitalism but freedom. Living under European socialism was like in a comfortable and well-appointed bird-cage - replete with tame and timid birds.
Posted by: Patrick Joubert Conlon at January 17, 2006 10:05 PM (JZQt1)
4
Pat meat Patty. Heh.
Most of the objections people have to socialism have to do with the consequences of means, not the ends. The reason for the timidity in Europe is probably not the equality of condition, but the fact that it's maintained by the socialist state. The value of some of the alternative solutions (flat-tax/demogrant and ESOP financing) is that they don't require much meddling by the state. The support therefore can't be manipulated, and no particular deference for the state is required. In fact, all that's required for the alternative financing is a reliable insurer, which could be Sears rather that The State. The whole system of finance could be completely privatized.
Now, if everyone were invested in capital markets to the extent that the dividend income met their survival needs the state would have little convincing power. And a demogrant is so simple in could have an Alzheimers patient as an administrator.
The problem is mustering the political will to get it done.
Posted by: Demosophist at January 17, 2006 10:21 PM (5h2KH)
5
PS And I might add that I think of economics from the stand-point of a small businessman not an academic. That's a very "don't interfere with me" POV.
Posted by: Patrick Joubert Conlon at January 17, 2006 10:21 PM (JZQt1)
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Pat:
Interference is one thing, maintenance of the social context is another. The State isn't the only enemy, or rather the real enemy is Leviathan: a state that is required by the threat of individual veto (WMD terrorism) or by distributional plans with a religio-omnipotent state as the administrator. Or just plain anarchy, in which your property simply belongs to whoever can wield the greater terror.
They're all pretty much equal. And they're all a lot worse than where we are. The problem is that we aren't stable. We can't stay where we are, because some of the critical variables are changing by huge amounts.
Posted by: Demosophist at January 17, 2006 10:29 PM (5h2KH)
7
Pat:
Not to split hairs but I think the opposite of socialism is capitalism; they are both systems of economic distribution. The opposite of freedom is enslavement. The opposite for democracy - a political system - would be totalitarianism.
Capitalism works best with maximum freedom. Socialism exists with freedom, but many market constraints. (Europe as an example). Communism doesn't seem to survive with freedom because it's too extreme; everyone is always trying to break away from the enforced social contract.
Posted by: Patty at January 17, 2006 10:58 PM (aH6Zf)
8
I'm sure glad neither of you are truly social
enginers. Maybe you should have started
with the definition of the words before de-
fining a system or government. Pat you
promised a blog on "Conservitism" when you
do write it, define the terms Left, Right,
liberal, conservitive etc.
Posted by: Jobear at January 18, 2006 08:05 AM (icxd8)
9
Nice to meet you, Patty. To me European socialism is enslavement. Oh, it's a nice enlightenend enslavement - a comfortable dependency on the state. Scott and I have had discussions like this before and, in the end, it turns out that I'm not really up on economics enough to understand most of what he says. I'm just a greedy capitalist pig.
See you over at my digs, Jobear.
Posted by: Patrick Joubert Conlon at January 18, 2006 10:27 AM (QF6BU)
10
Selfish underpinnings of capitalism? Marx would be proud that he has been allowed to frame the argument and define the terms. The truth is that capitalism isn't an
ism, it's just what people do when government doesn't interfere. Socialism is only attractive to the lazy and stupid.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 18, 2006 11:01 AM (0yYS2)
11
World history shows that capitalism (a free economy) produces the greatest good for the greatest # of people in a country (not every citizen, just the vast majority)- with one exception. The one exception was the very short time the Socialist Labor Party ran Germany and "nationalized" most of the major businesses and created a few government businesses from the ground up (1933-1940 livings standards stooped their growth in the war).
The countries to the north and east of Australia have seen their livings standards grow in direct relation to how close they are to Laissez-faire Capitalism. Singapore is much freer than the US (economically) and has seen its living standard grow many times faster than ours and is now approaching ours. Compared to 60 years ago when it was only avery small fraction of ours.
Capitalism is not perfect - it just is the best.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at January 18, 2006 12:59 PM (xcy9v)
Posted by: Patrick Joubert Conlon at January 18, 2006 01:39 PM (TWApp)
13
Rod:
The countries to the north and east of Australia have seen their livings standards grow in direct relation to how close they are to Laissez-faire Capitalism. Singapore is much freer than the US (economically) and has seen its living standard grow many times faster than ours and is now approaching ours. Compared to 60 years ago when it was only avery small fraction of ours.
A positive correlation doesn't necessarily imply a linear relationship, but of course I'm not mounting an argument in opposition to the trend. What I'm saying is that social insurance makes some sense, but the administration of a social insurance system tends to make things worse rather than better. Therefore, if one actually wants to get the benefit of social insurance without the cost imposed by its administration the way to go about it is to distribute without administration. In other words the major part of the administration goes toward judgment about who ought to get what amount, and excluding that pernicious element makes administration nearly costless (and largely unnecessary).
The way one would set that up is either through a demogrant (combined with a flat-tax so that everyone gets an equal amount regardless of their condition), and/or by "diffusing" private ownership of capital. In the longer term the robust solution is to allow capital ownership to provide at least a base level income for more than 50% of the population so that people are no longer tied exclusively to what their labor can command. This would be the "tipping point."
And no, I don't necessarily think a system in which concentrates capital so that only 5% of the population holds 95% of the productive capital in the economy can really be called "capitalism." In practical terms such a system simply results in an elite that ultimately seeks to control the state in order to make their position in it perpetual. The notion of "no rules" may seem rational, but not even Hayek supported markets in the absence of "just conduct."
Nor can one completely exclude political voice from the equation, though one can hope that the wiser voices prevail. When more than 50% of the population are independent both of the state and of the labor market they're simply more likely to make wisdom a priority. That's why it becomes the tipping point. The truth is, we're nowhere close to that point, and to get there we need to make some drastic changes to both capital formation and social insurance.
I see no way around it. None. And I'm not sure we have much time, either.
Posted by: Demosophist at January 18, 2006 02:13 PM (eNDND)
14
Hi Pat ( I visited and I really enjoyed your redneck site) and hi Demosophist.
Please permit me, if you will, to introduce myself by telling you some of my likes and dislikes:
I like freedom, capitalism, self-interest, democracy, President Bush, a work ethic, kindness, and a joke.
I dislike opportunists, communism, socialism, altruism, taxes and Senator Edward Kennedy - the king of hypocrisy.
long live freedom of the press! long live the blogosphere!
Posted by: Patty at January 18, 2006 05:35 PM (aH6Zf)
15
That's a nice intro, Patty. Pleased to meet you.
Posted by: Patrick Joubert Conlon at January 18, 2006 07:53 PM (PA7fg)
16
Welcome Patty, you're one of us.
Lord help you.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 19, 2006 12:29 AM (0yYS2)
17
I think Ronnie's ghost has posted here under the pseudonym
"Patty".
Hi Ronnie remember I voted for ya 9 times from 66 - 84.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at January 19, 2006 05:19 AM (xcy9v)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 19, 2006 09:45 AM (0yYS2)
19
Thanks for the welcome! Just to say, I have very little no experience with commenting (usually just click around, peer in, listen, click somewhere else ) so it's really amazing to have a 2-way (4-way?) conversation going. I'm not even sure if this particular essay/conversation is still alive. (hope it is)
I was specifically thinking of Reagan when I tried to describe the unintentional biproduct of capitalism -this biproduct being the overall increase in the wellbeing of the community. Reagan expressed this phenomena more clearly but I can't remember how he put it. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Posted by: Ronnie at January 19, 2006 08:42 PM (aH6Zf)
20
I dislike opportunists, communism, socialism, altruism, taxes and Senator Edward Kennedy - the king of hypocrisy.
Not meaning to offend, but what are you; an Ayn Rand wannabe? I have nothing against altruism, except that there isn't very much of it. In the sense of "pure" altruism (someone else's good before yours) it's obviously non-rational. But much of liberal theory is based on the notion of self-interest "properly conceived," which doesn't rule out the possibility that what's best for one's immortal soul or one's owns species isn't necessarily what's best for the current "bottom line."
Ferinstance, I met a marvelous Iranian taxi driver yesterday in Phildelphia. Instead of just driving me to my destination by the shortest possible route he took me on a kind of sight-seeing tour of the area of town around Villanova, for no better reason really than that he enjoyed the conversation. He didn't charge me extra, but I'm sure some of his income was foregone in order to do this, or at least there was certainly no additional "profit" in the purely economic (monetary) sense. Sure one can come up with self interested explanations of this sort of thing, but isn't the real problem that we're just not sufficiently imaginative about what constitutes "self" or "self-interest?" I mean when you get right down to it I'd rather that one human survive than none, even if the survivor is completely unknown and not even remotely related to me. It's not that hard to come up with a theoretical narrative of such a situation that conforms to most of what people see as "altruism." (For instance, by choosing myself over him I might ensure a peaceful life at the expense of human existence. But by sacrificing myself I'd guarantee the survival of the species. If you arn't willing to call this altruism then you're just being legalistic. I sacrifice myself for the sake of posterity. If that's not altruism, what is?
Posted by: Demosophist at February 02, 2006 06:26 PM (xSFr9)
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