August 11, 2005

The Libertarian Case for Drug Control

Bet that headline got your attention. All right, my last long, long word on this for a while and we can go back to posting on GWOT stuff. Rusty, thanks for your indulgence.

You can't be a libertarian and support tyranny, nor can you support slavery. If all men are created equal before God, then slavery is an abomination and no man is naturally the subject of any other. A slave, or a subject, may have his own will, but he is not free to exercise it except insofar as it comports with his master's.

Likewise an addict may have a reason most of the time, and a complex inner life, but he is in the end a slave to those who will provide him with the means to satisfy his addiction. The worst cases--and you can spare me the accounts of the white collar friends of yours who appear to sail through life without a care snorting and shooting up everything in the Harrison Act--I said the worst cases, and there are far too many of them--will kill and rob and mortgage their house and blow the baby's college fund and sell their bodies to satisfy their masters. An addict, or for that matter someone tripping or stoned, is not a free man. In many cases, you can't even commit murder when you're high--under the law your "mental defect" can prevent you from reaching the mental state required to form the mens rea for intentional homicide. (As an aside, some people in the trackbacks or comments to this discussion have argued that we should nationalize the distribution of narcotics, so addicts would no longer be enslaved to criminals. But then they are still enslaved to and utterly dependent on the government, and that, my friends, is still tyranny.)

That's not just me talking. That idea was the impetus for the anti-opium movement back in the 19th century, before the progressive-era doctrines of government improving human nature controlled the discourse. When you free someone from a monkey on his back, you liberate him just as surely as if you'd shattered his chains with a chisel.

Liberty is the province of reasonable men. Someone who is insane or severely mentally handicapped is not afforded the same degree of liberty as everyone else. Their reason isn't sufficiently unencumbered. Children, likewise, can't buy guns and drive cars. They're not up to it. The self control, the planning and maturity, just aren't there. We do this not just out of compassion for the children who might wreck their cars or shoot someone accidentally. We do it because a world where all the children are armed and the mental defectives run the government just isn't livable for anyone. And likewise for drug addicts. Our government is designed to be run by reasonable men, not by a cadre of stoners and tweakers and junkies. Everyone's liberty is at risk in such a regime.

Now I expect you'll begin to pick apart what I said by pointing to alcohol. You'll say alcohol is worse than pot, therefore we should legalize the weed. I don't concede that point at all, but let's say for a second you're right. Let's say legalized alcohol creates much more of a societal problem than does legalized cheeba. In fact we'll quantify it: Legalized alcohol costs us X units of societal headache, and legalized hoochie weed costs us only X-1. If we're rational and our preferences are transitive, shouldn't we free the herb if we're willing to accept the consequences of legal booze?

Let me answer that distinction by telling you a story about my car, below.

When we bought our car we had a choice to make. We could get a sun roof or a CD player. The sun roof was more expensive than the CD player. I wanted the CD player, my wife wanted the sun roof. So we, um, compromised, and got the sun roof.

You could argue that, geez, See-Dubya, if y'all were willing to spring for the more expensive sun roof (X), you should also have been willing to pay the lesser amount for the CD player (X-1).

But no; then we would have needed to pay 2X-1 instead of just X. And that's almost twice as much! We could maybe have swung that, but it would have been tight. In other words, we made a prudential calculation, based on our finite resources. It's not just a matter of transitive preferences, it's a matter of compounding costs.

Back to the dope. It's not a good argument to say "booze is worse than dope, therefore we should legalize dope." That way we bear the costs of both. Unless you're saying that we should prohibit booze and legalize dope, trading x for x-1, (assuming it's just that simple) and I don't think anyone is really saying that again.

Oh, but I'm not done yet. I'm being logically inconsistent here. If I were consistent I really ought to prefer incurring a cost of X-1 to X. Therefore our drug priorities, just like my wife wanting that sunroof, are logically inconsistent.

To which I say, so the f--- what?

We live in a Republic, homey. We do not live in a tyranny of logic, where egghead sophisters, calculators, and oeconomists decide how we will allocate every resource. The whole French Revolution--and other totalitarian ideologies since then-- centered around subverting life to reason in every aspect, ironing out any inconsistencies and making everything intellectually elegant. (Substitute "The Quran" for "Reason" and you have Islamofascism as well.)Instead, questions of policy are put up to a vote and we work out a messy, often illogical, always imperfect, series of compromises and prudential agreements. Our laws and standards are organic and grow out of traditions, suspicions, instincts, religions, aesthetics, and all kinds of weird things, and the good ones stick around. That's popular government. We're free to take the X instead of X-1.

You can't ban it all, of coursse, nor do we really want to. We can pick and choose among addictive substances--coffee and tobacco and liquor we'll allow, ritalin and percodan we'll allow for medical use but regulate pretty tightly, pot and heroin and meth, nope. Wouldn't-be-prudent. Not worth it. We'll tolerate a little drunkenness and alcoholism, a little edginess from caffeine, lung cancer and stained teeth from tobacco, but not the burned-out stoner or the psychotic meth nut. Just like the sun roof, that's the package of costs we're willing to incur and enforce. But just because we're willing to tolerate that much addiction, hallucination, and drug-induced unreasonableness , doesn't mean that we ought to tolerate more.

UPDATE: Don't forget to read the earlier discussion which inspired this post.

See-Dub's Legalize Crank, says NYT columnist

And Rusty's post which argues the libertarian position against for the legalization of drugs Why Everybody is Wrong About The Drug War.

Posted by: seedubya at 02:45 AM | Comments (32) | Add Comment
Post contains 1156 words, total size 7 kb.

1 EXCELLENT argument regarding this issue - as excellent as I have ever seen. THANK YOU for this fine exposition on the subject - it needed to be said. It is a shame it needs to be said, seems these are days when all the basics are having to be rehashed and thrashed and relearned. So I really appreciate it. Well reasoned.

Posted by: Rose at August 11, 2005 03:02 AM (z4MUD)

2 I especially liked this part: "I wanted the CD player, my wife wanted the sun roof. So we, um, compromised, and got the sun roof."

Posted by: Oyster at August 11, 2005 05:18 AM (YudAC)

3 Well reasoned and rational, but with a few problems. First, as the legalize-it crowd would say, they would really not have a problem with illegal alcohol and legal buds, which, according to your analogy would lead to X-1 societial harm. I also have to say that the argument that someone who is high is automatically 'addicted' and a slave is a fallacy. Certainly alcohol and cigarettes are both more addictive and destructive to society than pot. Anyway, the end result is that you can't control a illegal substance - nobody will card you for drugs!

Posted by: Joe at August 11, 2005 08:53 AM (P1gjy)

4 You can't free a slave by changing his master. He must master himself.

Posted by: Howie at August 11, 2005 08:54 AM (D3+20)

5 Ok you supposed "libertarian", let's examine this a bit. Govt. should stay out of our lives unless we are doing some nonsense that hurts other people(like saying driving drunk) So aside from the people killing others drunk in their cars and the people slowly killing themselves with alcohol and tobacco, we spend out tax dollars fighting a "war" that is unwinnable and the vast majority of the folks we are putting away are not drug lords. Hell, they aren't even annoying tweakers. No, most people that are put in jail and kept there(again at our expense) are guilty for possesing a naturally growing herb. So lets review, nobody is being killed by herb and it doesnt have ANY of the social ills like alcohol or tobacco( well mebbe the cancer thing but that link is slight at best). So, of course, we should spend billions of tax dollars and create a large govt. organization to stamp out something that is virtually impossible to stamp out. Ya know, if we were getting the coke and the opium dealers it would still be a bad idea but at least you wouldn't look like such idiots advocating it. Libertarian means that nobody tells me what to do with my body as long as I'm not injuring you.

Posted by: delatao at August 11, 2005 09:02 AM (iu/zX)

6 This is not the Libertarian argument I'm familiar with at all. According to Libertarian purists like Szasz addiction doesn't even exist. It's a false "disease model" that masks the truth about people who drink and drug too much - they are making a choice. Sure, you can choose to drink for so long that you get DTs, but you chose to get there. Terms like "relapse" are crappy lies to cover up the fact that the person decided to drink or drug again - chose pleasure over responsibility. And in the classical Libertarian world, that is a choice they are free to make until such time that they impose on others. If you steal because you want more crack, society punshes you for stealing. Period. It is the consequence that you must pay for your bad crack-related choices. Read Szasz and his comments on the "theraputic state". I think you'll enjoy it very much.

Posted by: CJ at August 11, 2005 09:44 AM (Hk10/)

7 http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=5240

Posted by: Howie at August 11, 2005 09:46 AM (iJ7b1)

8 "You can't ban it all, of coursse, nor do we really want to." If you admit that mind altering substances of some sort are okay, and even at sometimes a good thing then how on earth could you think that it should be the governments business to decide which one is better for the individual. This is not a libertarian thought you are having. Square peg, round hole?

Posted by: BigDuke at August 11, 2005 10:26 AM (kuyD/)

9 The libertarian ideal assumes we are all islands. We are not we all affect each other.

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at August 11, 2005 11:11 AM (JFPR+)

10 Your argument that "drug users are slaves" to their suppliers, etc. is absurd. If drugs were legal, they would likely cost less than 1% of the current black-market price and could be available at your local Wal-Mart, grocery store, whatever. Let's say you currently take aspirin. Does that mean you are a "slave" to Bayer Inc.? (Ironically Bayer was a major supplier of legal, over-the-counter morphine to the USA in the early part of the 20th century). In the 1890's, cocaine was openly sold thru the Sears catalog (without Rx)!

Posted by: Laurence at August 11, 2005 11:57 AM (lV6KO)

11 I love how any person with a computer can play like they are notorious. Somehow a blogspace grants them with the authority to make huge claims without using any facts (ad baculum). God love the internet. Not only that, but people can parade around their egos on a float of reason and logic and at the same time commit any fallacy of reason they so desire. For example, your argument about the soicetal impact of alcohol(x) and weed(x-1) can be reduced to a simple equation is rediculous. Have you ever heard of a Straw Man argument? Your argument is a complete cariacature of the problem you are addressing. There is no way it's that simple. What about biology, psychology, sociology, HISTORY... all these things play a part. It's not as simple as pure economics. Tell me about addiction. Do you know any addicts? What's your history, do you eat too much fast food? Are you addicted to your lifestyle? Could you cut it cold turkey or will you be feeling symptoms of withdrawal by the end of the day? I will agree with you on one thing: "in the end [everyone will be] a slave to those who will provide him with the means to satisfy his addiction." Freedom is a ruse, if you really want it be a Buddhist.

Posted by: Geoff at August 11, 2005 12:03 PM (F20cM)

12 The glaring error in this argument is limiting freedoms because of the worst members of a class. Your argument is 1) Drug addiction is slavery. 2) Slavery is tyranny. Therefore, 3) Drug addiction is tyranny. 4) Tyranny should be illegal/prevented. Therefore, 5) Drugs should be illegal/prevented. Do you see the disconnect? You went from saying that drug addiction should be prevented to saying that drugs should be illegal. Logically, (5) should read: Therefore, 5) Drug addiction should be illegal/prevented.

Posted by: RMStalzer at August 11, 2005 12:28 PM (oB5aR)

13 You're not a libertarian, you're a statist control freak who doesn't like drug users and who has come up with a facile set of justifications for the continuing the war on (some) drugs. Your story about your buying a new car doesn't shed any insight on this problem, it just shows that you're a PWed statist control freak (I can hear the whip cracking from here). Then you start outgassing about how liberty is the province of reasonable men and that "...Our government is designed to be run by reasonable men, not by a cadre of stoners and tweakers and junkies. Everyone's liberty is at risk in such a regime." Does anyone else find it interesting that you don't mention "drunks" in this? I guess you'd be OK with a bunch of boozehounds like Teddy Kennedy running things because even though they're slaves to a drug it's a drug you like (alcohol). Then you cough up the following bit of noxious spew: "You can't ban it all, of coursse, nor do we really want to. We can pick and choose among addictive substances--coffee and tobacco and liquor we'll allow, ritalin and percodan we'll allow for medical use but regulate pretty tightly, pot and heroin and meth, nope. Wouldn't-be-prudent. Not worth it. We'll tolerate a little drunkenness and alcoholism, a little edginess from caffeine, lung cancer and stained teeth from tobacco, but not the burned-out stoner or the psychotic meth nut. Just like the sun roof, that's the package of costs we're willing to incur and enforce. But just because we're willing to tolerate that much addiction, hallucination, and drug-induced unreasonableness , doesn't mean that we ought to tolerate more. This is of course the conservatard argument for the war on (some) drugs, namely that as soon as you legalize drugs everyone is going to become a burned out stoner or a psychotic meth nut. Of course this argument is total sewage and is disproven every day. Alcohol is legal and easily available to anyone over 21 years of age (and many who are under 21 years of age) and yet despite this we are not a nation of total drunkards, stumbling blindly around in search of spare change so we can purchase a bottle of Olde English 800 or Thunderbird. Here's a question for you: If drugs were legalized would you use them? If heroin were legalized and easily available would you use it? I certainly wouldn't. I have to wonder if the reason you're against drug legalization is that you know that if drugs were legalized that you'd become a burned out stoner, or psychotic meth nut in short order due to a lack of will on your part. God only knows that some of our drug warriors have compulsive addictive behaviors, as witness moralizing conservatard Bill Bennett, former Drug Fuehrer and Secretary of Education blowing eight million dollars in 10 years on slot machines (if that isn't a monkey on your back please tell me what is). If junk were legal Bennett would probably be bathing in it, giving himself junk enemas, shooting it through his eyeballs into the frontal lobes of his brain for that perfect rush. Instead he has to content himself with slot machines. Of course even though you're against drug legalization based upon what it might cost society (conveniently ignoring what the war on (some) drugs has cost society in terms of tax dollars wasted and the destruction of civil liberties) you're willing to tolerate the 300,000 people who die of cigarette related illnesses every year, the cigarette smokers who put others at risk by lighting up at gas stations (more than one smoker has burned himself to death while lighting up while pumping gas) the drunks who kill around 25,000 people a year on our roads and highways, beat their wives and kids and end up lying in the gutters begging for change to buy fortified wine and malt liquor. Again, what this comes down to your advocating the government enforce your arbitrary prejudices. You spout a lot about how we're not subject to a tyranny of reason (BTW, your French revolution example is garbage) and instead argue for a tyranny of irrational prejudice and bigotry against the users of certain substances, and this is better how? In the end what you argue for is totally arbitrary rule by the majority with laws based upon the prejudices of that majority. I've got some bad news for you sunshine, that isn't in any way, shape or form "libertarian". If the majority doesn't like pot but is OK with alcohol, objectively a far more dangerous drug, then you're OK with the laws against pot. This is the same stupid argument that the drug warriors use when they're asked why, if they're so concerned about people using drugs and harming themselves and others, they don't crack down on alcohol and tobacco. Tell me, what are you going to offer us next: The "libertarian" case for gun control? The "libertarian" case for higher taxes? The "libertarian" case for internment camps? The "libertarian" case for genocide and ethnic cleansing? Man, with "libertarians" such as yourself who needs communists, nazis or islamofascists?

Posted by: Jamie Jamison at August 11, 2005 12:36 PM (pqJMZ)

14 I used to be a court reporter for a daily newspaper. One thing I learned is that incapacity because of intoxication is not a valid defense, no matter what the crime, no matter what the circumstances. If it were a valid defense, drunken drivers would never go to prison.

Posted by: Mark at August 11, 2005 01:07 PM (vl841)

15 I hope you would include religion, sex, processed sugar, animal fat (and trans fat substitutes) and TV in your list of things that should be illegal becasue they are habit forming and/or addictive and somehow escape or resist human will. Your overly simplistic view of addiction , habit and human freedom and contingency are laughable. Not to mention your obvious lack of knowledge about drug use (as if all users are addicts, and as if all addiction is the same in severity or managemability). And Libertarians are rarely utilitarians, so I'm not sure where your pedestrian and sophmoric cost benefit analysis fits into your poor libertarian argument.

Posted by: lazerlou at August 11, 2005 01:21 PM (J7EvK)

16 I would be interested to see how all the libertarians in this thread would excuse the laws against having sex with minors. Any takers?

Posted by: Defense Guy at August 11, 2005 01:27 PM (jPCiN)

17 Drugs should be legal! A large # of people are killed or hurt by "users" trying to get either the dope or the money to get it. I no longer remember the #'s but decades ago I did a paper on this subject (I was a Goldwater small Govt man at the time) and the results of several articles written in the 50's and early 60's was that over 1,000 times as many people are killed or hurt by users tryin to get either dope or $ to buy it, in the US (pro rata)as were killed or hurt by high users in Europe. The biggest single factor in the high cost of snow or other dope is the implicit cost of being killed by DEA or spendig years in jail. Legalizing dope would not only save billions in law enforcement yearly but significantly reduce crime because the crimes commited to get expensive dope would not be committed since it would be cheap.

Posted by: Rod Stanton at August 11, 2005 01:31 PM (03F0I)

18 An addict, or for that matter someone tripping or stoned, is not a free man. In many cases, you can't even commit murder when you're high--under the law your "mental defect" can prevent you from reaching the mental state required to form the mens rea for intentional homicide. But isn't the free man choosing to impose that "mental defect" upon himself? A slave is one who is compelled, against their will to serve another. If you choose to use a drug, you have excercised your will, as a free man, and you must accept the consequences of that action. The argument you put forth suggests that my freedoms should be limited if I might use those freedoms to limit my own freedom in the future. How is that libertarian? By this logic, it would be legitimate to regulate sex because engaging in sex has the potential to limit my future freedom through pregnancy or disease. I'm free to have sex with many people, but I effectively give up that right in marriage (or at least most marriages). I'm free to party all night long every night of the week, but I have to give that up to get a decent job. Our freedoms measured as much in what we choose to give up as what we choose to hold onto. It's only when we are compelled, forcibly, to give up a freedom, that we become slaves.

Posted by: Steve at August 11, 2005 01:38 PM (XJJye)

19 You are not Libertarian; hell you're not even a decent constitution upholding American if you think we should prosecute consensual crimes. America is a place where you can reach for stars, or die in the gutter....keep it that way.

Posted by: blahblahblah at August 11, 2005 02:18 PM (1HeG/)

20 "If all men are created equal before God, then slavery is an abomination and no man is naturally the subject of any other." What about the libertarians that don't believe in God?

Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at August 11, 2005 02:32 PM (x+5JB)

21 From a libertarian perspective, your argument is specious. People should be free to choose dangerous and destructive lifestyles, as long as they hurt no one else directly. I'll leave out the anguish they may inflict on friends and family cause that is too vague and far reaching. Using that, you can ban homosexuality because of AIDS and the anguish it may cause someone who haes gays. As far as certain laws that make one not guilty of premeditated murder because they are high, they prove nothing, the law is foolish. After all, our life loving President executed a lady who committed murder when she was high, and who honestly tried to redeem herself while in prison. But that is irrelevant. A person shuld be able to choose to lead a dangerous life, like motorcycle riding, mountaineering or drug abuse, regardless of what the nannies might say. Societal costs are a vague factor and in a libertarian society the government would not be providing much in the way of services anyways. Even a practical, non libertarian approach might make some distinctions, only a complete moron would treat pot the same as heroin while arguing cigs and tobacco are okay.

Posted by: Jake at August 11, 2005 02:49 PM (zeHqd)

22 I have called in sick more than once because of too much alcohol, I have never called in sick because I smoked one too many "joints" the night before... But Alcohol is still ok right? People should be left to make decisions for which they are responsible, not the Government, the Government should hold those accountable who have encroached on another's rights, not because they feel a person can not handle the maturity require for some things they wish to indulge in... Commit a crime while intoxicated? Pay the price for that crime.. not for seeking intoxication. What if in your sample equation, the real factors are alcohol = 1 and pot = 0-1 then legalization would equal a sum of 0 and all of societies' ills would be solved by legalizing pot... this is actually quit closer to the fact since no-one knows what the reality would be if pot were made legal, they are certainly less than alcohol and in my mind would be close to nill when equating the effect on society. This shows how you can make any equation fit your theories no matter how baseless they are in reality.

Posted by: Somebody at August 11, 2005 02:53 PM (MaRYv)

23 As a man who has been a card carry Libertarian for almost two decades, let me say that your article doesn't begin to satisfy the conditions you set out in your title. You may make a case for the Drug War, but it is not a libertarian case. See, a Libertarian would be the first to realize that X or X-1 as you define them aren't really part of the equation. In the Libertarian perspective individual freedom are given gravitas over societal will. The "Pursuit of Happiness" is the fundamental right of all people to follow their own road just so long as their actions don't inhibit another person from doing the same. In short, as long as I'm not hurting you then what I might or might not choose to do is really none of your damned business. Whether I choose to be a "burned-out stoner or the psychotic meth nut" is my choice to make-- at least under a libertarian doctrine. A true Libertarian would also understand that it isn't slavery if it's a choice made freely, thus the WHOLE of your argument falls apart. Those things to which I choose to subject my life, those things which I grant claim upon my time and resources, are an elemental part of freedom. I may choose to have kids, rather than pursue a career. You might say that I am then a "slave" to the needs of my children, but this is, again, my business and not yours. Were I to choose the career I might be considered a slave to my desk, but my workaholic tendencies would still be my demons to bear. I have set priorites in my life for who and what get access to me and to those things which I indenture myself. YOUR role in this equation is to butt out. For the most part, for most people, life is terribly difficult. I would suggest that whatever it takes to get you through the day-- be it drugs, religion, hobbies, children and family, work, play etc-- as long as you're not knocking on my door asking for me to bear the brunt of your problems for you, then go for it... it's your life, your views, your time to shine or rust in the rain. I won't even begin to discuss the insanity, from a libertarian perspective, of government spending my money to fight a war against personal choice.

Posted by: Shantyhag at August 11, 2005 04:08 PM (iwe1N)

24 What about the societal costs of Marijuanna law enforcement? I think if you take those into account, your 2X-1 argument falls apart, since there is a huge cost to society enforcing those laws. For the record I believe that the societal cost of enforcing most drug laws falls below the costs of legalization, but I do not see that happening with Marijuanna.

Posted by: Dan at August 11, 2005 06:08 PM (Y2A8A)

25 MUUSIC! Throw the tape player into the bathtub when the song "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane peaks

Posted by: Ren at August 11, 2005 06:40 PM (a9tRx)

26 The main reason alcohol is legal in the U.S. while other rec drugs are not has nothing to do with whether we want to deal with the consequences of more than one rec drug being legal. I've already brought this up (at considerably greater length) in my comment on "Why Everybody is Wrong About The Drug War", but it bears repeating here. In a nutshell, the difference between our alcohol laws and our drug laws boils down to an idiosyncrasy of Western culture: Alcohol has been around since the dawn of mankind, and has long been considered a staple of Western civilization. Other drugs have not, and therefore have proven much easier to demonize and gain popular support for them to be outlawed. Further complicating the drug-vs.-alcohol-laws debate is the fact that alcohol, and only alcohol, has its legal status enshrined in the U.S. Constitution - specifically, in the 21st Amendment which makes alcohol regulation the purview of the states. Short of another constitutional amendment to eliminate that disparity, bringing other drug laws into line with alcohol laws (or vice versa) is not only unlikely, it is constitutionally impossible.

Posted by: Joshua at August 12, 2005 01:59 PM (5Xc3J)

27 I hate tobacco. I hate pot. I hate coke. I hate meth. If you mess with my bourbon I kick your ass.

Posted by: greyrooster at August 12, 2005 09:56 PM (0zyYw)

28 There are an awful lot of food addicts in this country and stores and shops on every corner to support this heinous addiction. Some kill animals for food, some kill plants. Killing to live. It creates a whole murderous climate on the planet. And the level of addiction is simply astounding. And people feed this addiction in public. How disgusting. People need to stop being slaves to substances of all kinds and a food prohibition will do at least part of the job.

Posted by: M. Simon at August 13, 2005 12:01 PM (/XcVW)

29 What if the people taking drugs need them? Addiction or Self Medication?

Posted by: M. Simon at August 13, 2005 12:03 PM (/XcVW)

30 What this post lacks is a Moral Sense. Suppose the people taking pain relievers are desperate for pain relief? Why are drugs are associated with a reduced moral sense. Let us start from what we know: Pain destroys the moral sense. Next step is to look at the connection between drugs, pain, and morality: People taking drugs for pain are in moral danger from the pain. The drugs actually help alleviate the moral danger by relieving the pain. As a society we recreate that moral danger by keeping those in pain from relief. I think this point is typical of the confused thinking on the subject of drugs. We ascribe the ills caused by prohibition to the drugs themselves. We make people desperate by depriving them of pain relief and then complain when desperate people do desperate things.

Posted by: M. Simon at August 13, 2005 12:09 PM (/XcVW)

31 I agree with CJ and Szasz. There is no such thing as addiction. The idea is superstition. There is such a thing as people in chronic pain taking pain relievers chronically.

Posted by: M. Simon at August 13, 2005 12:39 PM (/XcVW)

32 And the level of addiction is simply astounding. And people feed this addiction in public. How disgusting. There is no such thing as addiction. The idea is superstition. Fatal Syntax Error, Unexpected contradiction

Posted by: Ren at August 13, 2005 06:35 PM (a9tRx)

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