There are things worse than losing a loved one in war, although that may be hard to imagine. Victory gives meaning to the death of a loved one. Their death becomes sacrifice when something noble is built out of the ashes of war.
The great tragedy that was Vietnam was that so many died. And for what? To see South Vietnam fall to a Stalinist dictatorship, hundreds of thousands rounded up for re-education, and the spread of communism (or worse) in Southeast Asia. The vanity of their deaths cannot be laid at the feet of the soldiers they fought with. No, we are to blame.
There is an unwritten pact between soldier and citizen in a democratic nation. The soldier puts his life at risk and the citizen supports the soldier and his mission and gives him whatever tools are necessary to win it. Whatever remains of what was once referred to as 'the glory of war' is still found in victory. The purpose of war is still to win.
When a democratic nation sends its sons and daughters to fight a war it must do so with a total commitment to victory. To reduce war to cost-beneift analysis is to reduce the life of a soldier to that of automaton: the soldier becomes a robot who's actions have no morality nor meaning. One cannot say we are willing to fight only so hard, or that we are willing only to lose X number of soldiers, but after that no more. What about the soldiers who have already been mamed and wounded? Is their sacrifice for nothing?
George Patton is quoted as saying that Americans cannot stand to lose a war. This is true, but not for the reasons attributed to him, that we just cannot stand a loser.
Although it is rarely articulated, Americans cannot stand to lose a war because we are a moral people. Our wars, all of them, are couched in moralistic terms. We fight for a reason. National interest may be reason enough for the French to fight (a much less rare occurrence than popular jokes would lead you to believe), but not for Americans. National interest may be an important part of all our wars, but interest alone is not enough. We fight for something good when we fight.
In war there is no substitute for victory, and in America victory gives meaning to the deaths of fallen sons and daughters. They died for something greater than themselves. They died for a purpose. That purpose is good.
This is why defeatism has always been considered only slightly less offensive than actual treason.
And this is also why the rhetoric of the Left is so disgusting. To ascribe the very worst motives to our wars and to our fellow citizens is to make the death of a son or daughter worse than meaningless. If one believes that war is about imperialism, financial gain, a Jewish conspiracy, or whatever, then those that die are not heroes. At best they are victims, at worse they are criminals.
Dying for a lost cause is vanity, dying for an evil cause is immoral.
Your side lost, now support our victory. Anything less would be to spit on the graves of the honored dead.
Posted by: Chris Short at September 22, 2005 09:11 AM (0OCQY)
2
Me too. Well put, Rusty.
Posted by: Oyster at September 22, 2005 11:13 AM (fl6E1)
Posted by: Howie at September 22, 2005 12:40 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 22, 2005 03:38 PM (0yYS2)
5
How sad that this needs to be said at all. We're fortunate to have you say it so eloquently.
Posted by: justamomof4 at September 22, 2005 05:26 PM (7auSQ)
6
so now they're pulling a switheroo on that good ol' wartime sloganry design that's served us well for so long? I think you fellas better find something that rolls off the tongue a bit better. support the troops
and their mission! That just doesn't flow, boys. And it's simply too much to remember amid all the flying emotions of an anti-peace rally. I venture to suggest my own magnanimously conceived bit of sloganry that encapsulates the entire 'MO' of diffusing US-style democracy & liberation throughout the middle-east, and makes good symbolic use of the brotherhood lingo--this is it: "FREEDOM ROCKS!" There! Don't you see this is all you need as far as slogans go! Whatever it is, "Freedom rocks!" has it covered--patriotism, primacy of liberty, Islamic oppression sucks, brotherhood of man, no religion too, all that. I urge you to take my advice and dispose of your complicated propagandistical appeals to men and their missions. Your main concern is selling a idea, and my superior symbol encompasses everything and more, and it can of course be easily altered to suit the tastes of your particular target demographic. The hip-hop subculture might prefer something in the vein of "Freedom is da' bomb," or "Freedom got game!" for the urban playground ballers. Or "Freedom ain't wack!" for the shot callin skeptics. As for the liberal elite, im afraid you've already lost the battle there, what they need is guilt. Your ". . .and support their mission" is just gonna breed more self-destructive cynicism, so that's probably a positive outcome from your perspective. So I'll make one final suggestion for the ones working so hard to orchestrate our downfall: "Freedom is the shit." A bit coarse and crude, but that's what appeals to the liberal elite right? KISS principle, right? Keep It Sexy Shithead.
Posted by: mustafaak at September 22, 2005 08:10 PM (jWaQK)
7
Thank you, Rusty. Well said. The weasels, traitors, and defeatists will be out in force soon, so we must be prepared to defend our troops.
We MUST NOT EVER let our troops be disrespected like they were during the Vietnam War. If I ever see one of those weasels disrespect one of our troops, I swear I won't be responsible for my actions. I will hurt the weasel, male or female, it matters not to me.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 08:13 PM (rUyw4)
8
Here's Mustafaak in his own words on 6-7-05:
...but all the bullshit about peace and non violence-that's just to keep the overseers off our back.
Rusty, I believe you have a good chance to get that fatwa you've been wanting for so long. I believe we have one of the little jihad wanna-be shits right here on the Jawa.
Rusty, you mean old dude, I didn't know you were an overseer. LOL!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 08:42 PM (rUyw4)
9
Mustafaak wins the prize!
I thought that DSM or one of the new guys, like BushPig, might have had a shot at being the first to vomit up a long-winded, nearly unintelligible respone to this post, but the dark horse came from behind to win it! Go Mustafaak!!!
Posted by: File Closer at September 22, 2005 08:51 PM (pgXsZ)
10
overseers yes! sharade! you pinned the tail right on the camel! I'm glad somebody's with me
Posted by: mustafa at September 22, 2005 09:15 PM (jWaQK)
11
Mustafa,
Please tell me that English is not your first language. What the hell did you say? And please, be precise.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 22, 2005 09:58 PM (rUyw4)
12
" ...twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe..."
That makes far more sense than mustafa's insensible rant, but I guess that's the price you pay for goat-borne syphilis. They say senility comes before the chronic incontinence.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 22, 2005 11:11 PM (0yYS2)
13
I couldn't agree more with this:
There is an unwritten pact between soldier and citizen in a democratic nation. The soldier puts his life at risk and the citizen supports the soldier and his mission and gives him whatever tools are necessary to win it. Whatever remains of what was once referred to as 'the glory of war' is still found in victory. The purpose of war is still to win.
But I can't help but notice that you don't define "win" in this post. What is a "win" in Iraq in 2005? Establishing a democratic (and Islamic) republic? Allowing the breakup of the state into squabbling and weak fiefdoms?
How long might we stay to achieve this "win?" How many more soldiers must be killed and maimed to do it? How do you propose to keep troop levels where they need to be to secure -- if not a victory, then at least security? How do you propose we pay for it?
And in a democratic Republic, any such mission must rest on the consent of the citizenry. Are they still behind this mission?
Posted by: stickler at September 23, 2005 01:22 AM (hZJsR)
14
legally licensed to issue fatwas in 7 states and abroad. diggit.
Posted by: Mustafa at September 23, 2005 01:57 AM (jWaQK)
15
Greetings Jawa Readers,
Perhaps there is some grave and deep semantic misunderstanding about the concepts of supporting troops and supporting the ongoing Iraq war.
Simply put, troops are people and war is a state of armed conflict. One may support or not support one with or without the other, as they are independent variables, i.e. support of y is not a function of support for x.
Two short questions from this vet:
Is it wrong to say that troops can be supported by those working hard to make it politically possible for them to return safely to America?
Is it wrong to be honest with them about the real reasons they have been sent to fight in Iraq?
I would like to see them come back to America forthwith.
Posted by: Collin Baber at September 23, 2005 05:01 AM (uRNNR)
16
We all want to see them come back. But if you do not support the cause, you cannot give your support wholly to the troops.
Not supporting the mission gave rise to the abuse the troops recieved when they arrived back home from Vietnam. That and the massive propaganda that was fed by the machine about supposed atrocities. Troops recieved NO SUPPORT from the gov't or the people (the ones who spoke up, anyway) and look at the resentment it gave them towards their country when they returned...and who could blame them.
Ask that question again Collin.
Posted by: kermit at September 23, 2005 06:37 AM (DX+fh)
17
Yeah BABLLLAR!!!! Answer the goddamn question you twisty-head numnut! BUSHIE hates the troopers and feeds'em into the flying zarqawi shrapnel - GET REAL - Screw Vietnam, we're buying stuff from 'em even after we bombed'em for 15 years and let Klanrooster shoot 'em up in the jungle. Death is death and victory is bullshit for those who die because they can't enjoy it. THEY'RE DEAD!! Stop believing Bush's BIG LIE!!!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 23, 2005 07:37 AM (VhNDM)
18
Quothe mustafa, Valentino of goats: "legally licensed to issue fatwas in 7 states and abroad. diggit."
Great! I'm licensed to hunt down rabid dogs, feral pigs, and muslims, we should get together sometime.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 23, 2005 09:04 AM (0yYS2)
19
"There is an unwritten pact between soldier and citizen in a democratic nation."
Why only soldier and citizen? That leaves out the people making decisions. The people in the Pentagon Papers.
Leaving them out is a great way to avoid accountability.
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 09:59 AM (y/f3P)
20
Collin,
Here's the deal. In almost every instance with very few exceptions, the people who support the troops also support the war. People who don't support the war rarely ever support the troops.
There's a reason for this. The liberals who oppose the war oppose war period, no matter the provacation. They were against the war on the Taliban, mainly because they somehow think they can manipulate these people. I could go on, but why? You get the picture.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 23, 2005 10:31 AM (rUyw4)
21
" They were against the war on the Taliban, mainly because they somehow think they can manipulate these people."
that war had a 90 some percent approval rating. the one we're fighting in has nowhere near that support.
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 10:57 AM (y/f3P)
22
Actus,
I doubt it. I don't think you could get 90% of the people in this country to agree that the sun comes up in the East, and I'm not trying to be obtuse.
The Left was against the war in Afghanistan from the start, and although some liberals did half-heartedly support the war, as soon as a few Taliban were killed they opposed it. The liberals and leftists here in the US see the jihadists as their natural allies against Christianity and conservatives. The problem will come for the Leftists if and when their allies attain a level of success. Britain and Europe are good examples of this, as Muslims have reached a level of success that allows them to murder and bomb their fellow citizens with little or no repercussions.
A good example of what I'm talking about: The Left attacks Christians who oppose gay marriage but align with Muslims who support the execution of homosexuals. Go figure!
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 23, 2005 04:03 PM (rUyw4)
23
actus: I think it's mostly because some people can't "connect the dots". Our attackers were clearly defined after 9/11. But must we wait to be attacked before taking action? Who would have been happy had thousands more died from another attack in say Los Angeles, and afterwards we find that Iraq had a hand in it? Why must we only do something "after" American citizens are killed?
We were damned if we invaded Iraq and damned if we didn't. At least now we aren't counting the dead in our streets. Not to say that soldiers lives aren't precious, but they took on the job of protecting the homeland. And regardless of what "you" believe or what "you" argue, personally, I believe something far worse on our own soil has been averted as a result of the invasion.
You're entitled to your opinion and no one would dream of denying you that. I can even understand why you may feel the way you do. Why can't you extend the same courtesy? You understand your own thought processes which brought you to your own opinion, yet, you cannot understand why someone else may come to a different conclusion. Your process of reasoning is merely different, not necessarily correct.
Your comments are terse and unrevealing. They are rarely, if ever, defended with facts, links or reasonable discourse. And I see more often how you "don't" comment when facts are presented in a cogent manner with references and back up. You wait until you can take a statement out of the context of the entire post and bring up some obscure point that wasn't made clear enough to you, but everyone else seems to get it. When was the last time you vocally agreed with anything here at all? Or are you afraid you'll dilute your negative message with something positive? Your M.O. is clear. Every time it's different with you so no one can really communicate clearly with you.
Posted by: Oyster at September 23, 2005 04:17 PM (fl6E1)
24
'I doubt it. I don't think you could get 90% of the people in this country to'
sorry. its true. look it up.
"Why can't you extend the same courtesy?"
What the hell are you whining about?
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 09:00 PM (Zi15r)
25
Ah, just as I thought. Terse and no content. Good job, actus. I pegged you right.
Posted by: Oyster at September 23, 2005 09:14 PM (YudAC)
26
"Ah, just as I thought. Terse and no content. "
some of us get to the point. sorry.
Posted by: actus at September 23, 2005 10:02 PM (Zi15r)
27
Mr. Actus:
I'm not talking about some dumn poll. You know as well as I that these polls don't measure support in a meaningful way. Please tell me that you are not that shallow.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 03:13 PM (rUyw4)
28
"I'm not talking about some dumn poll. You know as well as I that these polls don't measure support in a meaningful way."
There were lots of polls and indications that the war in afghanistan had overwhelming support. But its not as meaningfull as your 'doubt.'
Posted by: actus at September 25, 2005 08:07 PM (QPrcU)
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