October 20, 2005
School Teaching Children To Be Muslim
Hat tip Stop The ACLU
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ANN ARBOR, MI — On Wednesday, October 19, 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco, California, will hear oral arguments in Eklund v. Byron Union School District. The Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, represents several parents and children who challenged the Byron Union School District's practice of teaching twelve-year-old students "to become Muslims."
For three weeks, impressionable twelve-year-old students were, among other things, placed into Islamic city groups, took Islamic names, wore identification tags that displayed their new Islamic name and the Star and Crescent Moon, which is the symbol of Muslims, were handed materials that instructed them to "Remember Allah always so that you may prosper," completed the Islamic Five Pillars of Faith, including fasting, and memorized and recited the "Bismillah" or "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate," which students also wrote on banners that were hung on the classroom walls.
A federal district court judge in San Francisco had previously determined that the school district had not violated the constitution.According to Richard Thompson, Chief Counsel of the Law Center, "There is a double-standard at play in this case. If the students had done similar activities in a class on Christianity, a constitutional violation would surely have been found. If the public school's practice is upheld on appeal, all public schools should begin teaching classes on Christianity in the same manner as the Islam class was taught in this case."Source
Double standard indeed. Public schools can't even have a nativity scene in a Christmas play without the ACLU jumping on them like a rabid wolf in the bushes. But these schools think they can teach our children the religion that wants to kill us all? Teach us to be tolerant to the intolerant religion of hate? I don't have a problem teaching our children how different religions have influenced the world around them, and that even includes the religion of hate, but it should be across the board, and should not include indoctrination. If Islam is allowed to be taught, then Christianity should be too. Where are the sensitive atheist parents on this one? Where is the ACLU?
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1
Shocking. Eventually the Islamists go too far and some angry parent responds by force.
This post fits well with one I just read over at Fjordman. In Sweden, a lot of people sigh and wonder when we are going to be converted by force to Islam. I'm not exaggerating. There is a submissive atmosphere of hopelessness and widespread decadence.
The forces of dhimmitude are increasing their efforts. Our culture erodes at a quickening pace. Some will join with our enemies willingly, others out of a sense of inevitability. Things will get worse before they get better.
Posted by: Thomas the Wraith at October 20, 2005 08:38 AM (0CXA6)
2
A couple of things.
Why is the Ninth Circus involved with this case? Doesn't this fall under the jurisdiction of a circuit court that covers the midwest? I know we have Federal courts in the area.
Yeah. I find it incredible the (I take it this initial decision was made by a subset of the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals) the Ninth Circus can rule that one phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional and then turn their heads when clear Islamic prosletyzing goes on in the public schools.
It sounds like what these children have done is in fact to declare themsevles Muslim. One of the Five Pillars is the recitation of the phrase (in Arabic) that there is no god other than Allah and Mohammed is his prophet. If those children say it 3x then they are considered to have converted.
This separation of church and state is no such thing. This requires a full blog.
Anyway if anyone can clear up my court confusion I would appreciate it.
Shookron! :-)
Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at October 20, 2005 08:53 AM (1h2bp)
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One other thing I think you missed Marcus, if these children did in fact convert, they will be subject to death if they leave the Muslim faith. At least that is the punishment in many countries.
Whatever school did this needs a new school board, also. Where is the outrage?
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 20, 2005 10:03 AM (rUyw4)
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This is unbelievable. In light of all the court battles over the mere mention of God, they think this was a good idea? Who ARE these people?
Posted by: Oyster at October 20, 2005 10:38 AM (fl6E1)
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Did they make the girls wear burkas and beat them if they looked at a boy? Did the teachers then ass rape the young boys? Since it is permissable in Islam they might as well have. If they wanted to teach the younguns about Islam, they should show them how to properly stone someone. Perhaps maybe a short class on throat slitting or how to strap a bomb on without spoiling your crease.
My child will learn the truth about this stain called Islam.
It is degenerate and Evil and should be crushed not tolerated. Hunt them down and cast them out.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at October 20, 2005 10:39 AM (+L/AK)
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JJ,
You are very right about that. Is this school now going to murder any of those children that continue to practice their true religion?
Where is the outrage? Well, as Chris points out the ACLU and the Courts do not target religion in general but Christianity in particular.
Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at October 20, 2005 10:39 AM (1h2bp)
7
Based on the criteria mentioned by Marcus Aurelius, what we have here is a public school coercing conversion to Islam. Explain to me how that is not excessive entaglement in matters of religion? The establishment of a religion?
Posted by: Insomniac at October 20, 2005 11:24 AM (IEpte)
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The ACLU cannot take your call right now, they're in court persecuting the Boy Scouts Organization.
Posted by: dave at October 20, 2005 11:45 AM (CcXvt)
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I thought the ACLU was busy in Court defending the rights of suicide bombers who found themselves excluded from University football games.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at October 20, 2005 12:06 PM (+L/AK)
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This is role-playing. Nativity scenes aren't role playing. They're the real thing.
Posted by: actus at October 20, 2005 12:36 PM (CqheE)
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"Why is the Ninth Circus involved with this case? Doesn't this fall under the jurisdiction of a circuit court that covers the midwest?"
Why would it be in the midwest? Because the law firm is based there?
Posted by: actus at October 20, 2005 12:42 PM (CqheE)
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same rule applies here, they shouldn't be teaching religion in school period, no equal time. just teach the curriculum.
Posted by: dave at October 20, 2005 12:57 PM (CcXvt)
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This is role-playing. Nativity scenes aren't role playing. They're the real thing.
How is a nativity scene "the real thing" while the following is not:
took Islamic names... were handed materials that instructed them to "Remember Allah always so that you may prosper," completed the Islamic Five Pillars of Faith, including fasting, and memorized and recited the "Bismillah" or "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate," which students also wrote on banners that were hung on the classroom walls.
If a school had a class take saint's names, handed out material that instructed them to remember Jesus and Mary, had them take communion, avoided red meat on Friday and recited "Our Fathers" and "Hail Marys" with a rosary, would that merely be "role-playing", or proseletyzing for Catholicism?
Posted by: Robert Crawford at October 20, 2005 01:30 PM (1j9aH)
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Wheres the ACLU wheres the AMERICAN UNITED FOR THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE wheres the rest of the atheist crowd who raise a ruccas when ever theres a chistian prayer in schools and what right has the teachers got trying to teeach kids to be musilums? whats ever become of the seperation of church and state?
Posted by: sandpiper at October 20, 2005 01:44 PM (ba9dN)
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Okay it was indeed the Ninth Circus.
Oh yeah. I just assumed the school district named was in the Detroit area. I did not question the venue because of the Thomas More Law Center's involvement. Silly me, it seems like such a Detroit sort of story.
I spent about 3 months living in the Detroit area on company training. Almost without exception every time I was in a restaurant I could hear Arabic being spoken.
The Ninth Circus makes sense now.
Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at October 20, 2005 01:49 PM (1h2bp)
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Lets be realistic here - their not teaching Islam - their teaching a fantasy romantized lib/west version designed to show they understand and care (multicultural babble) - its gonna be more like Disney's version of Aladin.
It will be dropped like a rock when the teachers, students, and lib/left progressive advocates come face to face with real Islamists and discover that they don't want to hold hands and sing KumBya.
Posted by: hondo at October 20, 2005 02:04 PM (bayez)
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People! This is Ann Harbor Mi - the San Fran of the mid-west Great Lakes. Let them do this and sit back and enjoy the enevitable fun. Do you really think they can resist shoving the own values and preceptions into this program? A confrontation with the Islamic community there is enevitable.
Posted by: hondo at October 20, 2005 02:11 PM (bayez)
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"This is role-playing. Nativity scenes aren't role playing. They're the real thing."
I'm sorry, but that is the second most ridiculous statement I've heard here yet.
Posted by: Oyster at October 20, 2005 02:28 PM (fl6E1)
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Actus,
My question to you, Actus, why would you even try to defend something like this? I wish to hell you would answer Robert Crawford's question.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 20, 2005 03:32 PM (rUyw4)
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Actus, like all other liberals, will stand with the muslims when there is war in the streets, and he will die with them, and receive less mercy for being a traitor.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 20, 2005 03:48 PM (0yYS2)
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If its any consolation, this moronic program was quickly cancelled and was only initiated in a handful of very liberal school districts.
As a side note, I heard that the school text book printer McMillian is reviewing its cultural studies book where Christianity and Judaism were presented as religous opinions where as Islam wasn not only given far more textual space, but was presented as a religous / cultural / historical fact.
Students were then invited to furhter explore this "fact" through similar activites described in the initial post
Posted by: Talker at October 20, 2005 04:06 PM (BnZUW)
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Maxie
Libs and Muslims standing together??? Rationally it weird but ...
picture this -
lib/left animal rights protestors protesting a shark fishing contest by placing themselves in the water as human shields
Do you get upset, laugh. or save money on chum
Posted by: hondo at October 20, 2005 04:20 PM (bayez)
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Does anyone know where this school district is located? What city?
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 20, 2005 04:50 PM (rUyw4)
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Excelsior Elementary School in Byron, Calif
Posted by: heroyalwhyness at October 20, 2005 04:54 PM (7auSQ)
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I expect the ninth had best freaking at least rule the same as last time. Yep.
Posted by: Howie at October 20, 2005 04:58 PM (D3+20)
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Thank you, hero, I figured it was probably in Ca, but it could just as easily been in Washington or Oregon. I'm sorry for the good people on the West Coast, but there sure is a collection of moonbats out there.
And they will side with anyone who is anti-American, being too stupid to know that they are Americans in a real sense as far as the Islamists are concerned.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 20, 2005 06:14 PM (rUyw4)
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"If a school had a class take saint's names, handed out material that instructed them to remember Jesus and Mary, had them take communion, avoided red meat on Friday and recited "Our Fathers" and "Hail Marys" with a rosary, would that merely be "role-playing", or proseletyzing for Catholicism?"
It depends on how its done. At the end of the two weeks is everyone all like "that was a nice role play, now you know what catholics do" or is everyone like "the pope is the max." Do the proponents object to other role plays? do they accept the fact that kids are role-playing? or do the proponents think that the kids are getting an education in the way they ought to be practicing their religion.
Nativity scenes are put up for actual worship. Not to pretend we worship. People would be mighty pissed off if we said that the nativity scene that is going up is just pretend.
Basically the question is: is it make believe, or is it real? Maybe religious people have a hard time figuring out the difference.
For pedago
Posted by: actus at October 20, 2005 07:23 PM (Zi15r)
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Hey, here's an idea, it's kind of radical but it might work. How about schools teach things like reading, writing, math, science, history, etc., and religious organizations and the parents can worry about things like religion? I know, I know, it sounds crazy, but hey, I'm a raving mad libertarian, so what do you expect?
Oh, I almost forgot. Liberals should all be hanged or shot. The end.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 20, 2005 07:31 PM (0yYS2)
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Uh, Actus, if I read this right, then there were a number of students and their parents who were not satisfied that the intent of the program was to educate.
If a Christian group proposed such a thing, the ACLU and every liberal and liberal group from here to hell would be screaming and and hollering like a stuck pig. Oh, the audacity of these Christians, trying to proselize the school children. But if a Muslim group proposes basically the same thing, the liberals wet themselves in all their excitement.
I tell you, I'm just about where IM is. This makes me mad as hell, and the liberals and the nuances of their hypocricy know no bounds.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 20, 2005 09:11 PM (rUyw4)
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"Uh, Actus, if I read this right, then there were a number of students and their parents who were not satisfied that the intent of the program was to educate."
right. the ones who don't get difference between make believe and reality.
"If a Christian group proposed such a thing,"
I don't think christian groups are interested in having people pretend to be a christian for two weeks. They're interested in prosletyzing, which is different.
Posted by: actus at October 20, 2005 11:14 PM (Zi15r)
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actus's account, at the bank of credibility is severely overdrawn.
keep writing those rubber checks buddy!
Posted by: dave at October 20, 2005 11:14 PM (CcXvt)
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Nativity scenes are put up for actual worship. Not to pretend we worship. People would be mighty pissed off if we said that the nativity scene that is going up is just pretend.
Basically the question is: is it make believe, or is it real? Maybe religious people have a hard time figuring out the difference.
Wow. Once more the ability of the liberal "mind" to hold two contradictory ideas as simultaneously true comes to the fore.
If people would be insulted if a nativity scene is "just pretend", wouldn't people be insulted if you said their religious practices are being done for "just pretend"? Wouldn't respect for religious practices be to either treat them all as equal or to ignore them all equally?
And what about the beliefs of the kids being sent through this type of "lesson"? If they believe that Allah's a false prophet, why should they recite the Bismillah? Why should they fast in accordance with Islamic law? Isn't this interference in *THEIR* beliefs?
Can anyone imagine a Muslim student being required to act out a Bar Mitzvah in class? Do you think saying "it's just for pretend" would make it acceptable?
There recently was a mini "controversy" at a college over a speaker talking about Christ during a convocation; he didn't talk about the divinity of Christ, but cited an episode from Christs life that could have been pulled from any secular figure's life. The campus libs -- including most of the student government -- were up in arms because this fellow had 'inappropriately injected his religion into their event'. He wasn't asking them to even pretend to worship, just citing what he thought was admirable behavior, but that was too much. If college students think it's too much religion to cite Christ as an example, then shouldn't we be even more circumspect with elementary school kids?
Or, as I and others suspect, are the standards for Islam and Christianity completely different?
Posted by: Robert Crawford at October 20, 2005 11:14 PM (Gn9tM)
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and of course the Muslims arent, right actus????....youre another idiot hypocrite covering for the liberals and the Muslims who want us all dead...wake the hell up
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 20, 2005 11:26 PM (IgomX)
34
"Can anyone imagine a Muslim student being required to act out a Bar Mitzvah in class? Do you think saying "it's just for pretend" would make it acceptable?"
Like I said, I think religious people have a hard time telling the difference. I wouldn't be surprised if muslims were offended that kids in CA were pretending to be muslim.
Offense is one thing, establishing religion is another. This may be the first, but its not the second.
"There recently was a mini "controversy" at a college over a speaker talking about Christ during a convocation; he didn't talk about the divinity of Christ, but cited an episode from Christs life that could have been pulled from any secular figure's life."
I don't think it was for pretend, but truly about spreading faith. Now, he may have done so un-sectarianly to not be establishment. But there is no doubt it was a momemnt of true faith. Is there?
"Or, as I and others suspect, are the standards for Islam and Christianity completely different?"
As far as offense? no, I think they probably get offended the same.
Posted by: actus at October 21, 2005 12:31 AM (Zi15r)
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"I don't think christian groups are interested in having people pretend to be a christian for two weeks. They're interested in prosletyzing, which is different." And Muslims are not interested in proselytizing? Are you joking?
"I don't think it was for pretend, but truly about spreading faith. Now, he may have done so un-sectarianly to not be establishment. But there is no doubt it was a momemnt of true faith. Is there?" Gee, do you know the guy?
These two statements take a far stretch of one's imagination and an awful lot of assumptions to use as a basis for your argument. You're digging deep here, actus. Put the shovel down.
Posted by: Oyster at October 21, 2005 05:32 AM (YudAC)
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Like I said, I think religious people have a hard time telling the difference. I wouldn't be surprised if muslims were offended that kids in CA were pretending to be muslim.
What if those Children said they were no longer interested in the Muslim faith, and renounced it? As Islam does not obey the golden rule, I should imagine they would not be so "down" with that idea?
Apostasy carries the death sentence in several Muslim countries, I wonder if one could use the argument you only "pretended" to convert to Islam there?
Liberals and their double standards again, how does it go again?
Any religion, as long as it's not Christianity!
I hope your Mother and Wife looks good in a Burka buddy.
Posted by: dave at October 21, 2005 07:59 AM (CcXvt)
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"And Muslims are not interested in proselytizing? Are you joking?"
I think so. I think they're not interested in pretend either. I think they might be offended by pretend.
"I hope your Mother and Wife looks good in a Burka buddy."
Now that you mention it, having kids pretend by wearing those sounds like a good way to make sure they DONT convert.
Posted by: actus at October 21, 2005 08:14 AM (Zi15r)
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ah, now you're saying perhaps they should put a cloth over some girls heads to make them not convert? how about not teaching an unrealistic version of Islam? or even teaching it at all.
I know, they could make a "real Islam" experience in an "Islamic city":
label one child a homosexual, bring a crane into the class room and pretend to hang him.
label another child a thief, all take turns hitting him in the wrist with a rubber sword.
label one of the females an adulterer, have the kids take her out to the sandpit bury her up to the neck, and throw Styrofoam "rocks" at her.
Have two children fall in love, outside wedlock, have the religious police cane the male child's feet, and beat the women, sentence the male to prison.
Have one of the other child's "pretend" brother stab his sister, for a honor killing.
have one child declare he is no longer a Muslim, then "pretend" to behead him.
take the female children's "driving license" no good female Muslim drives!
no female child can be on the playground without a male present, 10 lashes with a liquorice whip if out of the sight of a male!
have a female taken to the soccer field, and have her "executed" at gunpoint for disobeying her husband.
take the females for "surgery" no Muslim women needs their clitoris!
Hey this playing at being a Muslim in a Muslim city is GREAT!
Posted by: dave at October 21, 2005 09:51 AM (CcXvt)
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isnt Islam such a lovely, tolerant, religion???....it belongs in the trash can along with the kitty litter i had to scoop out this morning
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 21, 2005 10:41 AM (IgomX)
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I don't know if rectus is a paid propagandist or if he is really stupid enough to believe the crap that he writes. Either way, I hope he enjoys haning alongside other dhimmi traitors and their 'slamotard masters when the time comes.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 21, 2005 12:01 PM (0yYS2)
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These crimes and puishments in the koran are horrible !! thank G-d we have nothing like that in the bible, the TRUE word of G-d.
Posted by: john Ryan at October 21, 2005 12:32 PM (ads7K)
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" Either way, I hope he enjoys haning alongside other dhimmi traitors and their 'slamotard masters when the time comes."
Won't the time come when all us liberals are wiped out by true patriots first? Oh the choices I have! In the middle, between two kooks who hate me more than they hate each other.
Posted by: actus at October 21, 2005 01:05 PM (Zi15r)
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Mr. Actus,
Uh, I think it's pretty obvious who you have already sided with, and it's the kooks who cut people's heads off. Don't try to weasel out, now. You've taken the side of the Muslims time after time on this thread, so be consistant, and honestly say that you would not let Christians do exactly the same thing you approve for the Muslims.
It's the liberal hypocrisy that I can't stand!
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 21, 2005 04:28 PM (rUyw4)
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"Uh, I think it's pretty obvious who you have already sided with, and it's the kooks who cut people's heads off."
Oh I don't think they like me, or me them. After all I believe in feminism, liberalism and marriage equality for gay people.
Its really a race to see who can string me up first, muslims or the weirdo patriots.
Posted by: actus at October 21, 2005 04:36 PM (Zi15r)
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You nearly got a gold star for avoiding the question actus, but then someone -- namely me, called you on it:
Joe asked :
You've taken the side of the Muslims time after time on this thread, so be consistant, and honestly say that you would not let Christians do exactly the same thing you approve for the Muslims.
so it would be fine with you, to have "How to be a Christian" classes in this school, if it's OK with you to have "How to be a Muslim" or will those "crazy" Christians take it too far, like you alluded to with the how they believe a Nativity is a Government endorsement of the faith?
Posted by: dave at October 21, 2005 09:31 PM (CcXvt)
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"o it would be fine with you, to have "How to be a Christian" classes in this school, if it's OK with you to have "How to be a Muslim" or will those "crazy" Christians take it too far, like you alluded to with the how they believe a Nativity is a Government endorsement of the faith?"
It seems ok to have a class that teaches what christians believe. Role play could be a part of that. But this is different than having a religious or parochial educations.
However, we would have to make sure that the how to be a christian class is a role-play, and not really worship. In fact, it might make the pedagogical point of the lesson even stronger if more than 1 religion is included.
Posted by: actus at October 21, 2005 11:38 PM (Zi15r)
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"These crimes and puishments in the koran are horrible !! thank G-d we have nothing like that in the bible, the TRUE word of G-d." Don't even try that crap, Ryan. They're not talking about the horrible punishments in the Koran. In case you haven't noticed, or paid attention for the last few years, they're carring out those "horrible punishments" today still. Right now. As we speak.
"Its really a race to see who can string me up first, muslims or the weirdo patriots." Now why would the Muslims string you up, actus? You keep defending them.
"However, we would have to make sure that the how to be a christian class is a role-play, and not really worship." And what would you call the "how to be a Muslim" class? Did you even read the initial post? Or did you skim it and quickly decide that as long as it isn't Christian, it's okay by you? And then you said something completely stupid and rather than admit it was stupid or WRONG, you just kept digging.
This is not role-playing. This is actual worship. And they did it for THREE WEEKS. Three weeks is a long time in a child's mind. Do you know what the Bismillah is? It's something you must recite before you do anything, anything at all. Brush your teeth? Recite the Bismillah first. Eat? Recite the Bismillah first. Sleep? Recite the Bismillah first. That, my friend is an indoctrination. And it's an affront to every child's family who may practice a different religion or none at all. It's one thing to teach about other religions and completely another to have them act it out for weeks.
And what religion did they choose for the "role-play" experiment? Islam! Of course! Not Buddhism, Hinduism, or even Wiccanism, but the most violent of them all. Lead them through the most benign rituals and never clue them in to all the horrid things that are part of it. I won't list them all here. Dave did an excellent job above.
Your argument has no legs. None. And you're a complete ninny for continuing on with this. Admit you're wrong and all is fine. But NOOOOO. You just keep digging.
Posted by: Oyster at October 22, 2005 06:55 AM (YudAC)
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"Now why would the Muslims string you up, actus? You keep defending them."
Its that whole feminism and gay marriage thing that I believe in.
" And then you said something completely stupid and rather than admit it was stupid or WRONG, you just kept digging."
its not that stupid. The state can't establish religion. Role play for pedagogical purposes isn't establishment.
"And what religion did they choose for the "role-play" experiment? Islam! Of course! Not Buddhism, Hinduism, or even Wiccanism, "
They should do one a year. Much better.
Posted by: actus at October 22, 2005 09:11 AM (Zi15r)
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Is it still role play when you affirm your belief in a deity?
I know repeating the affirmations is much like calling "bloody Mary" three times in a mirror, but it says you are making a commitment as a believer, as such that is no longer role-playing.
There is an obvious double-standard at play, as usual.
Posted by: dave at October 22, 2005 12:47 PM (CcXvt)
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"Is it still role play when you affirm your belief in a deity?"
sure. When I play D and D and swear an oath to the king its still role play. Can't you tell the difference?
"I know repeating the affirmations is much like calling "bloody Mary" three times in a mirror, but it says you are making a commitment as a believer, as such that is no longer role-playing. "
Uh. the commitment ends after the program. not much real worship there.
Posted by: actus at October 22, 2005 04:46 PM (Zi15r)
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You are not a twelve year old, Actus, even if you act like one. You have lost the argument and now just look stupid.
Here's the real deal. You hate Christians because they have opposed your ideal of gay marriage, and they have been pretty successful so far. Your hate for Christians is stronger than your fear of Muslims, who believe and in actuality have severely punished gays, because you know that Christians stand between you and the Muslims. Now that's ironic.
But you should remember that some welcomed the Muslims into 7th Century Spain. They soon had cause to regret it. Read some history, my friend.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 22, 2005 11:10 PM (rUyw4)
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". Your hate for Christians is stronger than your fear of Muslims, who believe and in actuality have severely punished gays, because you know that Christians stand between you and the Muslims. Now that's ironic."
I'd be happy if they had their religious war and killed each other. The problem is that I live in the battleground -- a large east coast city. Maybe I should move to flyover country and start becoming a warmonger. Would be much safer there.
"But you should remember that some welcomed the Muslims into 7th Century Spain. They soon had cause to regret it."
Ya and the inquisition taught them to not welcome people anymore.
Posted by: actus at October 23, 2005 12:33 PM (Zi15r)
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See, Actus, there you go again, you want to compare the Inquisition which affected comparably few people compared to the jihad, which killed tens of millions. PLEASE go read some history.
And I know of no real Christian who wants a religious war with the Muslims. But, regardless of whether anyone wants a war or not, it is here, Actus, and you will have to pick a side. Oh, I see, you have already chosen, even though only death awaits you if they win.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 23, 2005 01:44 PM (rUyw4)
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Dave wins:
Actus: You pitiful little shit. Grow some balls and everyone won't hate your liberal ass so much. Try patriotism, it's like a shot of testosterone.
Posted by: BigAl at October 23, 2005 05:50 PM (6krEN)
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"See, Actus, there you go again, you want to compare the Inquisition which affected comparably few people compared to the jihad, which killed tens of millions"
It may have. But I was addressing the people who welcomed muslims -- and what the inquisition did to them, not the whole of the entry into europe and subsequent expulsion and crusades.
"it is here, Actus, and you will have to pick a side. "
I did. Liberalism. And believe me. Its not the easiest thing to be in the middle of fundamentalists that can agree on just about 1 thing: I'm the bad guy.
"Try patriotism, it's like a shot of testosterone."
Thanks. Living in a heavily Dem target city is testosterone enough. We gotta deal with the warmonger in chief to protect us. Takes courage.
Posted by: actus at October 23, 2005 08:09 PM (Zi15r)
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Liberalism is not supporting the ROP. A liberal would oppose them in the strongest terms. Are you so stupid that you can't see the difference between fundamental Christians and fundamental Muslims, as you say? One wants to stop homosexual marriage and the other wants to kill homosexuals. Are you honestly telling me you see no difference?
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 24, 2005 09:30 AM (rUyw4)
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"Are you so stupid that you can't see the difference between fundamental Christians and fundamental Muslims, as you say"
I said there's 1 thing they agree on -- hating me -- which implies the rest is different. duh.
Posted by: shortz at October 24, 2005 03:17 PM (CqheE)
58
Let me see if I understand you, not wanting to sanction homosexual marriage is the same thing as killing homosexuals. Is that what you are implying? Just so I am clear, because getting an answer from you is like pulling teeth.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 24, 2005 03:51 PM (rUyw4)
59
Uh, sorry Shortz, commented to Actus before I read your comment. Are you answering for Actus?
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 24, 2005 03:56 PM (rUyw4)
60
"Let me see if I understand you, not wanting to sanction homosexual marriage is the same thing as killing homosexuals. Is that what you are implying?"
How does that implication get made? they agree on 1 thing. the rest they disagree on.
Posted by: actus at October 24, 2005 04:25 PM (CqheE)
61
Thank you, Actus.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 24, 2005 04:38 PM (rUyw4)
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