The President of the University of Oklahoma has sent an e-mail to students denying that
was part of a larger Islamic terror plot. OU is also officially denying that Hinrichs was sold a ticket for the game. They also claim that there is no evidence that Hinrichs tried to buy a scalped ticket.
What is interesting about this is that OU is denying allegations that have not been made. I have been following this case rather closely and have seen no one claim that Hinrich
a ticket to the game that day.
There have been allegations that a student (and by conjecture this student has become Hinrich) attempted to enter the stadium and was turned away when he refused to have his bags searched, but not that he tried to buy a scalped ticket.
What is especially odd about this is that the refutation actually would seem to corroborate what many are saying: that Hinrichs was part of a larger terrorist plot to kill people at the game.
If Hinrichs attempted to enter the game and didn't buy the ticket himself, then one is led to the inevetable conclusion that someone else bought the ticket for him. If someone else provided Hinrichs the ticket and knew his intentions, then you have a wider plot. The Oklahoma bombing is a much bigger deal if not the act of a lone suicidal nut.
Further, OU continues to lead the public to believe that Hinrichs death had nothing to do with Islamic terrorism.
Boren also tells students that if he learns of any information from the FBI concerning a wider conspiracy, he will 'immediately' let them know.
It's not clear how Boren would know what the FBI is doing in an ongoing terror investigation, and in which search warrants and indictments are under court seal, so that he could rush and warn his students that an Islamic terror cell is operating on his campus.
Whether or not Hinrichs was part of an Islamic terror cell operating in Oklahoma is still in the air. It's very possible that he was not, that some of the evidence pointing to such a plot is merely coincidence, or that some of the evidence we have reported previously was not true. But, based on what is in the public record now, it would be hard to avoid coming to the conclusion that Hinrichs death was probably a failed terrorist attack.
To deny that would be jumping to conclusion.
1
Ahem
http://www.techievampire.net/wppol/archives/995:
KWTV (Channel 9) News just reported that Hinrichs did have a ticket to the game and attempted to get into the stadium at two different entrances. He was refused at each entrance because he refused to let them search his backpack. Hopefully theyÂ’ll have something up on their website later.
Granted, by my own definition, that's not a reliable source, but the allegation had been made. And I'm sure that there were many more such allegations and rumors circulating around campus.
But, sure, because these allegations have been denied, that automatically suggests a wide-reaching plot.
Posted by: ken at October 07, 2005 07:05 PM (xD5ND)
2
There goes Ken, playing party pooper again with his fancy-pants "reason" and "logic".
There has been speculation for the past week on whether or not Joel tried or intended to enter the game. I haven't heard anybody suggest his plan was to jump the turnstile. So whether or not he had a ticket would probably be a pretty good indication of whether or not he was planning to attend. Speculate all you want on whether or not the university is lying, but accusing them of "denying allegations that have not been made" is a stretch. People are asking questions, the university is answering. I've discussed this very question with several people over the past week, and I would imagine OU has had a press inquiry or two on the matter.
And she didn't say "he didn't buy the ticket from a scalper". She said "hey, we don't have any witnesses or video tape that tell us he bought a ticket from a scalper, and we have no record of him buying one from the university under his name".
Hell, we don't even know that he HAD a ticket. The report that he tried to enter the game came from the library security guard who was told by the gate security guard that some guy tried to enter with a backpack and ran off when they asked to search it. This was before Hinrichs was identified. Nobody has claimed or suggested that the gate guy gave a description, or that he has spoken to anyone about it since.
Sounds like you're the one jumping to conclusions.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at October 07, 2005 08:11 PM (3X9pX)
3
Ahem
There is no corellation between this guy at the football stadium what so ever, he hjust appended to be outside the gates and felt like blowing himself up!
End of transmission
Posted by: Baghdad Bob at October 07, 2005 08:30 PM (7ZsmI)
4
Hey, good comeback.
Is one named source too much to ask for?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at October 07, 2005 08:35 PM (3X9pX)
5
I doubt he would have tried to jump a turnstile with TATP in his rucksack, it's not known for it's stability.
Posted by: dave at October 07, 2005 09:16 PM (CcXvt)
6
Should we trust the leaders of our higher institutions of learning? Doubt it. Of course some will believe anyone. Some even believed Clinton. A worse enemy than this pitiful, lonely little loser.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 07, 2005 09:16 PM (M7kiy)
7
Grew up in Oklahoma.
Went to OU.
Don't trust Boren.
My skepticism has nothing to do with anything Boren has said. It's more the fact that most of the "information" floating around originates on NIN with no source attached, and then gets circulated around the blogs, and somehow gains more credibility each time another blogger quotes it or links to it. Pretty soon any blog can print one of these rumors and attribute it to "multiple sources". The bloggers scoff at the MSM, but them use them as a source when they run something that supports their cause. And most of this comes from OKC Channel 9. And as far as I can tell, their source is NIN....
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at October 07, 2005 09:30 PM (3X9pX)
8
Turn on CNN then asshole, and be amazed by the non-coverage.
Posted by: dave at October 07, 2005 09:33 PM (CcXvt)
9
actually ignore that comment. way too highly strung tonight -- my apologies.
Posted by: dave at October 07, 2005 09:40 PM (CcXvt)
10
First, only my mom calls me an asshole.
Second, maybe CNN isn't covering it because they don't see any credible sources, and they have a reputation (sort of) to uphold. What are they going to do, quote NIN? Maybe follow up with the blogs that link to NIN?
I've spent more hours than I care to admit this week reading every link and watching every video I can get my hands on. I graduated from the OU CoE, my best friend lived in those apartments, and I care as much about finding the truth as anybody here. For the first few days, I was convinced that there was something big going on here. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have wasted my time with it. I'm still on the fence, believe it or not, but there's a glaring lack of credible info out there. If you have any to contribute, I'd be glad to hear it. Seriously.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at October 07, 2005 09:47 PM (3X9pX)
11
nothing here.
The only thing I really find suspicious is the TATP element, however it's components are widely published on the Internet, and as he had been evidently turned down for the bigger explosive components it really does not come as a surprise he went with the over-the-counter, easy made bomb. Though the method of suicide itself is suspicious, who knows in these days of disenchanted youths, and the "I'll take you with me when I go" mentality as seen in Columbine and other murder/suicide plots.
Posted by: dave at October 07, 2005 10:01 PM (CcXvt)
12
Heh... OK, posted before I saw your retraction. I think we're all strung out... I'm going on 36 hours myself. Need to sleep. OU-TX game at noon.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at October 07, 2005 10:27 PM (3X9pX)
13
Good nite all. Be back when all is cool.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 08, 2005 12:23 AM (M7kiy)
14
Been down this road before in discussions with friends - was an adjunct instructor for a number of years at CUNY. Colleges and universities are the ultimate soft target. They are symbols of western culture (left & right - rad muslims hate both with passion), and security is crippled by PC etc. Students (foreign & domestic) are an excellent source for recuitment, assistance, and cover. Working theory here in NY is that if there is another big bang, it may well be a campus.
Posted by: hondo at October 08, 2005 03:19 AM (4Gtyc)
15
You might find the Troester quote below interesting - I did. Warrant != indictment. Evidence from a search might LEAD to an indictment, but a warrant certainly isn't an indictment.
Did he slip up here?
I know WND is a
highly suspect source (accuracy around 50% or so), so I'm not quite willing to go full throttle on this angle yet. But, this inconsistency in the US Attorney's terminology is very curious indeed.
WNDBob Troester, first assistance U.S. attorney in Oklahoma City,
said the department requested the warrant be sealed, but declined to elaborate when asked why it was necessary to do so given previous media reports that a depressed Hinrichs acted alone and on a whim.
"You can draw whatever assumption you like," he said. "We don't comment on any
sealed indictments."
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 08, 2005 03:48 AM (zH733)
16
I would want to know if Cheema or anyone else detained that night had purchased a ticket.
Posted by: Zack Scott at October 08, 2005 08:51 AM (K0JUs)
17
"I'm still on the fence, believe it or not, but there's a glaring lack of credible info out there. If you have any to contribute, I'd be glad to hear it. Seriously."
Anonymous Coward: I'm glad to finally hear you say this as "believe it or not" nearly all of us are on the fence as well. It's possible we got got on the fence from different sides, that's all. You spent a number of posts denying anything others may have implied without claiming your own position. I was reading your posts and coming to the conclusion that you had decided that there WAS no "wider conspiracy". That's why you got opposition.
I responded to Jeff the other day with the "absolute" facts we do know which give plenty of reason for speculation. And here's where I'll defend Rusty: he may make an honest mistake or two when relaying information through his postings, but he's quick to correct them. And as far as "spreading lies" as he's been accused of - it ain't true. He's careful not to present certain things as "facts" and is often wrongly accused of doing so because some people have poor reading comprehension.
Be prepared to sit on the fence for a while. I am. Because while we have the universtiy president vehemently denying everything and we see the actions of other authorities which imply there's plenty to investigate, it could be some time before we get any real answers.
Posted by: Oyster at October 08, 2005 09:56 AM (YudAC)
18
Ok, here's my crack at a theory. So, Boren comes out and calls people un-American for questioning the basic facts behind the first suicide by TATP on American soil without intent to harm anyone else.
One wonders... would he be writing the same letter if there was any indication that Hinrichs was a white supremacist/militia nut/anti-government conspiracist a la Timothy McVeigh? If indications were that Hinrichs was repeating the Nichols-McVeigh plot, would he be asking every Sooner not to "rush to judgement"? Something tells me that Boren and the rest of the OU administration know full well that Hinrichs was a recent convert to the ROP. If they didn't, they would be hyping up the "right-wing" extremist angle -- he's a well-educated, white man who dabbled with explosives, was he trying to be another Timothy McVeigh??? Ditto for the mainstream media.
Most people suspect this kid was a convert to Islam, not another McVeigh. Nobody wants to investigate the story because they know what they'll find.
Posted by: Bob Sacamano at October 08, 2005 10:02 AM (x3cCA)
19
Bob, it's ironic that you should mention McVeigh, because there is evidence that Terry Nichols, who was known to have traveled to the Philippines, received bomb-building instruction from al Qaeda there. The fact that McVeigh and Nichols were anti-government, anti-semitic white seperatists only sweetens the pot, and a quick visit to www.stormfront.org will prove that the neo-nazis and islamofascists are walking hand-in-hand. The media, and government, went out of their way to protray McVeigh and Nichols as having acted alone, and as being ordinary mainstream militant white Christians, but the truth is that they were part of a larger movement which is not mainstream, but which is also not getting much attention from the media or government. There is a lot that stinks about everything that has gone on since the first Gulf War, and there are a lot of people trying to hide a lot of facts for one reason or another.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 08, 2005 12:55 PM (0yYS2)
20
Let's also remember that this guy was under investigation for trying to buy ammonium nitrate at the time of his death.
You don't make a backpack bomg with ammonium nitrate. You use that for a TRUCK BOMB.
These are bits of EVIDENCE, not conclusive PROOF. But the EVIDENCE does suggest a wider plot. Other evidence, of course, could lead one to conclude otherwise.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 08, 2005 01:20 PM (JQjhA)
21
"Of course, it's not 'jumping to conclusions' to reflexively say that no such plot exists when in fact the investigation is ongoing. Further, to deny that radical Islam is somehow connected to terrorism is perfectly American, according to Boren."
Did he do that? or did he say there was no evidence?
Good thing the war on terror is not being fought by the reading comprehension of the 101st keyboard brigade.
Posted by: actus at October 08, 2005 09:01 PM (Zi15r)
22
That would be the 101st Keyboard Division, you dumn ass! We are much larger than a brigade, and the 101st Airborne is a division.
Good thing the GWOT is not dependent on the basic knowledge of Actus!
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 09, 2005 08:43 AM (0raMr)
23
"We are much larger than a brigade,"
Glad to know i've misunderestimated the opposition.
" and the 101st Airborne is a division."
That's the real military. You shouldn't get the keyboard kommandos mixed up with taht.
Posted by: actus at October 09, 2005 10:41 AM (Zi15r)
24
Yes, I'm aware that there is circumstantial evidence that points to an Islamist role in the McVeigh and Nichols' plot. I have read articles which point to Nichols' trips to Cebu City where, at the same exact time, Ramzi Yousef was plotting and engaging in acts of terror.
I was coming at this thing from another angle though. You and I know that Islamists may have been involved in OKC. Richard Clarke, the darling of the Democrat snipe-machine, stated as much in his book. But you didn't see that get coverage on The Today Show, didya? The MSM does not know, want to ponder or can admit that this is a possibility. What they do know, or at least suspect, is that this kid may have been a convert to Islam. Which is why they can't run with the -- he's a nutty righ winger!! -- story.
Posted by: Bob Sacamano at October 09, 2005 06:47 PM (x3cCA)
25
Well, Actus, you were the one who got it confused, not me. If you are going to make an attempt to insult us, at least get your facts straight. Geez, I know you liberals know nothing about the military, but let's get with the program, Actus.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 09, 2005 08:52 PM (rUyw4)
26
"Well, Actus, you were the one who got it confused, not me. "
Got what confused? I said 101st keyboard brigade. You think this has anything to do with the real armed forced, airbone, division or what? the whole point is that it is far from the armed forces. I even spelled commando with a K! how confusing!
Posted by: actus at October 09, 2005 11:21 PM (Zi15r)
27
Sure do! Whatever I can do to support the military, whether here on the internet, or out in town, or at the National Guard HQ at the college, is what's important. I support them any way I can.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 10, 2005 08:59 AM (rUyw4)
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