October 22, 2004
O'Donnell vs. O'Neill
MSNBC's Scarborough Country was co-hosted tonight by Pat Buchanan and Larry O'Donnell, and their guest was Swiftvet John O'Neill. I just came in toward the latter part of the interview, but was treated to quite a show. Instead of allowing O'Neill to make a point O'Donnell deliberately yelled over him: "Don't let him talk! He's a liar. Everything in his book is a lie, and it's all been disproved! Liar, liar, liar, liar, etc., etc." It was quite awe-inspiring to see someone who supposedly has press legitimacy, and whose face most people identify as at least superficially objective simply doing his best to prevent a guest from making a point by drowning him out. During the exchange O'Neill calmly, and politely, asked if he was going to be allowed to finish his statement, and finally, after an intervention by Buchanan, made his point about evidence that Kerry was the author of his own (unsigned) "after action reports."
The effect of the exchange really went far beyond the claims and statements about Kerry themselves, however, because O'Donnell (as one might expect) did nothing to back up his accusations against O'Neill and the other Swiftvets, as though the volume of his voice alone were enough proof. It was, perhaps, one of the strangest and most extraordinary displays of incivility by a "news person" that I have ever seen. Right off the scale.
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The effect of the exchange really went far beyond the claims and statements about Kerry themselves, however, because O'Donnell (as one might expect) did nothing to back up his accusations against O'Neill and the other Swiftvets, as though the volume of his voice alone were enough proof. It was, perhaps, one of the strangest and most extraordinary displays of incivility by a "news person" that I have ever seen. Right off the scale.
I'd suggest that the Swiftvets run part of the sequence in one of their ads to demonstrate the real quality of their opposition. Many of these men earned medals more impressive than Kerry's (including one Medal of Honor), and most served far longer in harm's way. This sort of treatment is simply disgraceful. There's no excuse for it.
Update: Daily Recycler has a video excerpt. (Hat tip: Cap'n Ed)
Note: This item was submitted by Demosophist
Posted by: Demosophist at
10:51 PM
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1
RE: LAWRENCE O'DONNEL
HE'S AN"MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST" YEAH!
DID YOU SEE HIS OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR RE
GOD/ GEORGE BUSH'S RELIGION EARLIER THIS WEEK
AND THE FOLLOWING LESBIAN TANTRUM
HE'S A DEM INSIDER - THEY MUST BE WORRIED
O'DONNEL'S BEGAN YELLING LIAR, DIRTY LIARS,
PROVEN LIARS FROM BEGINNING
OF SEGMENT, JOHN O'NEILL AT ONE POINT SAID
~PARAPHAZING "THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN DECIDE
IF THEY WANT TO SUPPORT PEOPLE THAT ACT LIKE
THAT?"
PLEASE POST TRANSCRIPT IF YOU CAN GET IT
Posted by: WYNN at October 22, 2004 11:46 PM (aE6QM)
2
The funniest thing on that show was Pat Buchanan's comment after a break, when he re-identified himself, and Lary O'Donnell as "an MSNBC political consultant" (or some such title; I don't remember), and then a short pause, and he finished with "... at least until later on tonight." Buchanan had looked bewildered during O'Donnell's short fit of outright insanity, and apparently during the break after that segment he firmed up the opinion that the maniac ought to be fired. His comment was not subtle, nor was it intended as a joke, IMHO.
Posted by: deona at October 23, 2004 12:11 AM (LpoyP)
3
Is it any suprise that all they have left (he he he) is to shout "LIAR!!" "FABRICATOR!!!" Personally, I can't wait to see what they come up with next. It has become ridiculous.
Go Bush/Cheney!!!
Posted by: David Bowman at October 23, 2004 01:52 AM (GY2aj)
4
He really lost it! Screaming Larry yelled of screamed "LIAR" a total of forty-six(46) times in about a 7 minute segment. The beautiful thing about it is that O'Neill showed complete calm and composure during the entire segment and showed what a classy MAN should act like! Screaming Larry, as I have named him showed his complete lack of class(not that he had any to begin with!)and could not refute any of the points that his opponent was able to get through the storm of yells thrown at him. Pat took Screaming Larry to task about the VN war too, telling him that a democrat, John F Kennedy had initiated it and had expanded under another democrat, LBJ. Larry did not take this too kindly. However, this individual's complete partiality toward Long Shanks showed and badly, to say the least. MSNBC should be embarrassed to have such a person on their show. I e-mailed Joe Scarborough and Pat Bchanan that if this person were ever again on their show it was lights out as far as I was concerned. This is almost the only show I watch on MSNBC and it is a shame that it has to be ruined by such a faracial and stupid performance!
Posted by: Lee Herrera at October 23, 2004 08:22 AM (U5cQu)
5
I had the (dis)pleasure of being able to watch that last night and I don't believe I've seen too many confrontations like that.
I only wish that they would have been in the same room. That, would have been priceless.
Posted by: Dick at October 23, 2004 08:26 AM (hu9UN)
6
The country owes John Oneill another debt, since he served the nation twice: once in Vietnam and once during this election.
Posted by: Jane at October 23, 2004 09:02 AM (hoo48)
7
so put your money where your typing fingers are, go to the swifties' website, and cough up some money for their ads...I did.
...first time I EVER contributed any money in a political race, after 23 years of being an elegible voter.
Posted by: Mr. K at October 23, 2004 09:18 AM (7x3vz)
8
You guys are missing the forest for the trees once again, never considering the point that O'Donnell was actually right. These guys are lying liars.
By the way Rusty, regarding what I think was your "home field" argument regarding the "liberal media." Could we stop with the sports analogies please? I don't remember the last time a home town crowd purposely leaned against their own side in order to appear objective, which is exactly what most journalists do.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at October 23, 2004 12:13 PM (1miw1)
9
O'Donnell is just the democrat prototype:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pglitch23oct23,0,3825651,print.story?coll=sfla-news-palm
Posted by: Mr. K at October 23, 2004 12:27 PM (PP78T)
10
and still more prototypical democrat behaviour:
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008274.php
of course, these are all lying liars who lie, lie, lie, lie.
Posted by: Mr. K at October 23, 2004 12:33 PM (PP78T)
11
Prof. Von Nostrand,
If Mr. O'Donnell had something intelligent to say that supported his point of view then he should have said it. His actions were shameful and childish. My nine-year-old can get his opinion across having a fit like that.
Posted by: Dorothy at October 23, 2004 12:35 PM (b8eAh)
12
You guys are missing the forest for the trees once again, never considering the point that O'Donnell was actually right.
Because we must never forget, boys and girls, that any sort of behavior, no matter how outrageous, is completely justified as long as you're doing it to express the right opinion.
This comment is on par with the reader on my blog who told me that because I was voting for Bush, I deserve any harassment or abuse that comes my way. Nice.
These guys are lying liars.
Well, if that's the case, then if you're interviewing them, let them lie, then respond with the proof that they ARE lying, and hoist them on their own petard. But even if I agreed with you that they're liars (and I don't), that does NOT excuse O'Donnell's behavior.
I do hope to God you're not an ethics professor.
Posted by: Brian B at October 23, 2004 12:36 PM (PuHU/)
13
I have recommended that hosts have three buttons in front of them - one to kill the mike of a screamer until they agree to answer the question, a second to kill the mike and honk a klaxon in their ear, and a third button to flush them.
Posted by: Walter E. Wallis at October 23, 2004 12:59 PM (7XPVo)
14
Hey professor:
I wonder if O'Donnell screamed liar, liar when Clinton told the nation (I did not have sex with that young lady, Ms Lewinski, No, never, not one time).
Posted by: greyrooster at October 23, 2004 01:24 PM (CBNGy)
15
Legendary SEAL or Lying Liar who lies?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210532/posts
and see http://www.kerrylied.com/
and the decide who is the lying...and btw, who lied about employment statistics? Kerry and his legions of lying liberal losers.
Posted by: Mr. K at October 23, 2004 03:05 PM (CeCjv)
16
Forest for the trees Dorothy. Who gives a rats ass about Larry O'Donnell. Nice work in making a mountain out of a mole hill Rusty.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at October 23, 2004 05:42 PM (1miw1)
17
Come on Professor Von Nostrand, what are you afraid of here? If they are lying, refute the points and offer proof -- just as the Swifties have offered documentation to back their points. The behavior of O'Donnell was unprofessional for a reporter, and reprehensible in a five-year-old.
Posted by: Laughing Wolf at October 23, 2004 06:21 PM (k3fvZ)
18
Hey all, this was actually a post by the "Demosophist" who will be posting here from time to time.
Actually, when I sat down to check the post I thought he meant "Rosie O'Donnell--it's the kind of behavior I'd expect from her!!!!
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 23, 2004 06:49 PM (JQjhA)
19
I notice the Professor Nostrand forgot to put his Phd, MA, SJ at the end of his name.
Bob Dole said that the 254 officers from Swift Boats Veterans for Truth who support John O'Neill, all but two of the all the Vietnam era Swift Boat commanders, can't all be lying Republican liars who lie.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 23, 2004 07:47 PM (lmOdt)
20
Brian. Cheer up. Help is on the way.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at October 24, 2004 02:06 AM (1miw1)
21
I count 24 times that O'Donnell screams liar ...
Posted by: Leopold Stotch at October 24, 2004 10:07 AM (xFNZD)
22
I just saw a BookTV session on CSPAN with O'Neill and the author of an anti-Bush book titled Unfit Commander that's supposedly about Bush failing to show up for Guard duty in either Alabama or Louisiana (I think the latter, but I'm not sure). The two were very civil, and O'Neill even had the grace to plug the other guy's book. But when it came to the truth of the allegations in O'Neill's book, which he had just spend close to 15 minutes outlining, the other author couldn't offer so much as a single substantive criticism. (He quoted the LA Times accusation that they were "lies," which also demurred on a serious attempt to back up that allegation factually.)
I don't know what conclusion one could draw from the quality of the responses to O'Neill other than that most of what he says is probably true.
Posted by: Demosophist at October 24, 2004 12:11 PM (OtR16)
23
The democrats should have stayed with their first choice. The lunatic Dean. He might be crazy but most Vietnam vets didn't hate him.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 24, 2004 05:29 PM (CBNGy)
24
Brian. Cheer up. Help is on the way.
Translation: "I got nothing so I'm just going to be a smarmy asshole." Way to revert to form.
Unless the "Help" is psychological counseling for leftwing sociopaths, it's too little too late.
Posted by: Brian B at October 25, 2004 11:59 AM (CouWh)
25
To the Crazy Prof:
Man, I hope you teach your students better on how to employ logic and documentation in a debate than you exemplify here thru your ranting. If not, somebody's getting ripped off.
Great example of why most folks consider a huge percentage of professors nothing more than educated idiots.
Those who can - do; and those who can't get a PhD and teach those who don't know any better (and rant on other peoples blogs!)
Posted by: michael at October 25, 2004 01:18 PM (uv41X)
26
greyrooster:
Which crazy prof are you talking to? I don't think you can swing a dead cat around here without hitting one.
Posted by: Demosophist at October 25, 2004 08:33 PM (OtR16)
27
All I have to say is Chris Mathews look out, your days are numbered as was O'Donell.Both of you are two peas in a pod. You reflect a bad influence on the true goodness of our great country and you should be ashamed of yourselves.You could do a lot of good for this country but you are too negative, which generates a lot of unnecessary hate and bitterness in our wonderful country. You and others like you need a lot of prayer
Posted by: Polly Salisbury at October 25, 2004 11:10 PM (M7kiy)
28
Don't you guys worry too much about the good perfesser. He's a liberal, see. Liberals don't need no stinking proof. Their own obvious personal and intellectual excellence is, all by itself, proof that Bush, O'Neill & Co. are all lying liars. They are liberals because they are smart, and you want proof? It is this: they are smart because they are liberals. That would be called circular reasoning if a conservative did it, but conservatives are not good people anyway, and the proof is that they are conservatives.
What do liberals call a conservative who defeats the Soviet Union and rejuvenates a moribund economy? A doddering simpleton, of course. What do liberals call a liberal who, like O'Donnell, craps his diaper on national television? Why, he's an astute journalist who can consider both the forest and the trees.
You can't argue with someone who is right by definition.
Posted by: Lee at October 26, 2004 08:06 AM (Eg8sk)
29
I wonder how many resumes are flooding MSNBC? Probably a good time to apply as a political correspondent since they should ahve a vacancy soon.
Posted by: Greg Myhre at October 27, 2004 12:23 AM (7toyJ)
30
Wow. This lil' jawa blog might just have the stupidest, most ill-informed biased ninnies this side of the Drudge jackoff files.
Too bad all you fools we be left out to dry on November 2nd when we fire President Cheney's ass and his caddy, Shrub.
BTW A Star Wars geek AND a Republic ... do you EVER get laid by anything other than two chick cutlets in a couch?
Posted by: MCF at October 28, 2004 09:20 PM (tt51G)
31
Wow. This lil' jawa blog might just have the stupidest, most ill-informed biased ninnies this side of the Drudge jackoff files.
Too bad all you fools we be left out to dry on November 2nd when we fire President Cheney's ass and his caddy, Shrub.
BTW A Star Wars geek AND a Republican ... do you EVER get laid by anything other than two chicken cutlets in a couch?
Posted by: MCF at October 28, 2004 09:21 PM (tt51G)
32
> Wow. This lil' jawa blog might just have the stupidest, most ill-informed biased ninnies this side of the Drudge jackoff files.
Oh, please pardon us all, MCF. When the left-wing intellectual challenge rises to name-calling and epithet-tossing, why, we poor conservative ninnies just can't hang in there with such Socratic figures as Mr. O'Donnell and your august self.
Admittedly, name-calling is an improvement over most leftist arguments. "O'Neal is a liar!" and "biased ninnies" at least possess the modest virtue of being coherent. Keep plugging away one small virtue at a time, MCF, and pretty soon you may even rise to the level of solving timeless riddles like, "What does 1 + 1 equal?", and "Who's buried Grant's Tomb?"
I wonder when the exact moment occurred when leftists finally, unambiguously, embraced finger-painting their opponents with their own ordure as a constructive argument.
My theory is that their brain cells shorted out sometime during the Clinton impeachment. Maybe it was having to discuss the meaning of "is" at the bit level. Maybe it was having to remember too many arcane rules for when a lie under oath constitutes perjury, or when it just means a poor beleaguered president is trying to reclaim the Constitution... I think the situation just crossed a few too many brain cell wires in their magnificent little brains.
Posted by: Lee at October 29, 2004 10:23 AM (Eg8sk)
33
ONeill is a lying hack. ODonnell called a spade a spade. Deal with it you ostriches.
Posted by: GK at October 29, 2004 12:10 PM (LKJZ5)
34
It's just hard to argue with logic like that, GK. Have you ever thought of teaching philosophy? Or math? Physics? I'd love to watch you prove a theorem... "The limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity, because anyone who disagrees is a lying hack or an ostrich, is..."
Posted by: Lee at October 31, 2004 07:38 AM (ki5kY)
35
After wathching the show with Lawrence Odonell five of us, in our household, decided to vote for Bush. Thanks, glass eyed, temper tamtrum thrower, Odonnel, you need tranquilizers and a life. That was pathetic! You're finished as a credible TV personality
Posted by: garyoliveira at November 16, 2004 06:29 PM (he+Og)
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