1 Whoa, wait. Suddenly the law of that land is that no one can leave Afghanistan? When did they become a Soviet state?

2 >>>Clearly, Islam is the religion of peace. Yeah, I'm convinced.

3 Ernie is right on. During the cold war we did not sust poiunt out he things we disliked about communism and said ther rest is OK. No to transform it or win over the long term you have to attack communism itseld and then point to specific instances. Islam is no different. We need a comprehensive cold war type propaganda war to shame Islam into change or destruction. Small Warm wars are not enough. I note we did not have the left defending THE USSR. Well a few did but mostly our nation was united in the cold war. How we could do so well against that and not do the same now is just crazy. The only reason communism was more of a threat is because they held more power. Now looking back Islam makes communism look tame.

4 Is conversion insulting to God, or merely insulting to the clerics, who have one person less to rule over.

5 There have been a lot of comparisons to the former Soviet Union and the will probably some more to come comparing Islam to fascism and the rule of the Nazi party. They both fit, when compared to the mind-numbing control they have over their people. What ever happened to America taking a stand for people who suffered under the iron fist of religious persecution? ItÂ’s too bad this guy can't defect to an American installation. Its too bad that if he did the politically controlled military senior leadership and the mindless civilian leadership we have in some positions in this country would turn him away and over to the Taliban-Lite Imams and Clerics of that country. I really wonder what the outcome would be if this guy asked for asylum based on the grounds of religious persecution? I have been in Iraq now for 11 months, and I have been here training Iraqi soldiers for the entire time, and I can tell you through direct interaction with these "Muslims"...most of them follow the religion when it suits their purposes. There are they few, maybe 20%, that are hardcore Muslims. For the most part though, the officials I interact with, the soldiers, the Clerics, Imams, Governors, sheiks, and everyone else use the religion of Islam in a manner suitable to better their own positions. For instance, I catch the Governor of the province stealing large sums of cash...he shrugs his shoulders and says, "it is the way of things, and everyone is corrupt." I remind him that Islamic law requires his hand to be removed for stealing (a crime against Allah) and he just shrugs his shoulders and waves it off as no big deal. On the other hand, we couldn't get him to go to work for a month during Ramadan because he was to righteous to leave the house and too tired from not eating or drinking during the day, we can't get him to get politically involved with the Imams because they speak the holy word of Allah and Islam is absolute, and worst yet, we bore witness to the aftermath of the stoning of his third wife for talking to a man on the streets because she brought dishonor to his family and his tribe. Fair-weather Muslims, I say. The question to theorize about and to discuss is not whether or not the Afghani Clerics are right or wrong, whether or not their religion is wacko or not (I think we can answer those questions pretty much with out discussion) but rather to try and understand what the Imams and Clerics stand to gain from this aspect of Islamic interpretation and the hard stance for it. There are literally thousands of other things they could focus their religious rage, power, and influences upon. They could point the Koran at the Muslims killing Muslims in the country, or at the rampant crime in the country, or the drug trade, or the negligent treatment towards children; all of which are against the writings of Mohammed and the will of Allah. What are they going to gain from this and what is the downside for them? I think a lot of the world is blind to the reality of this portion of the country. It is so much akin to the influence and power of the Catholic Empire during the Spanish inquisition, or to the reasons why people fled to America, because there are huge portions of the populace that are suffering under the abusive positions of power bestowed upon corrupt and power hungry Imams and Clerics. Open your eyes. We are watching our own history in a manner of speaking.

6 Makes you wonder what the reactions of some of these moderates would be if a North American or European Christian converted to Islam, was beaten for it, and then threatened with death by the state. I'm sure they'd all view it as simply the law of the country in which it was occuring and move on to other business.

7 Gunny, "...most of them follow the religion when it suits their purposes." Sounds like another religion I know of. Come to think of it, it sounds like every religion I've ever come in contact with. "The question to theorize about and to discuss is... rather to try and understand what the Imams and Clerics stand to gain from this aspect of Islamic interpretation and the hard stance for it." This is good question. I suspect it's similar to what drove the Nazis. Why did they single out the Jews when they could have set the people to work on serious problems? Part of it is that it's a problem that doesn't shoot back. This makes it a risk-free way to look pious and gain public favor while fighting a hated enemy. And hate him, they do. I don't think the clerics are lying about that. The Afghan-in-the-street interviews I'm seeing are showing folks calling for blood. Are most Muslims hypocrites? Maybe. But most Christians are hypocrites too, but that didn't make burning witches and tarring Mormons any less popular. Rahman's life is over in Afghanistan regardless of what the court does. The people really will pull him to pieces. And if the clerics stand in their midst urging them on, they might gain some prestige for taking a stand on core religious values and confronting the infidel West. On the other hand, trying to get the people worked up about Islamic rules that they don't really care about (like caring for your wives and kids properly) or that would cost them money (like not dealing dope) would rather cost the clerics political capital than gain them anything. That's my guess anyway, but you'd know better than I how accurate it is.

8 ShannonKW "I suspect it's similar to what drove the Nazis. Why did they single out the Jews when they could have set the people to work on serious problems? Part of it is that it's a problem that doesn't shoot back. This makes it a risk-free way to look pious and gain public favor while fighting a hated enemy." I completely agree. It is a cowardÂ’s stance. It is always easy to steal lunch money from the small kid. "And hate him, they do...The people really will pull him to pieces." They will your right. However, we shouldn't get mob frenzy and intelligent thought confused. I work with the Iraqi military. Since they have no banking system they have to physically take money home to their families. No problem. We send them home for 7 days a month for vacation and to take pay home. When we arrived to begin training they were taking 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. That means that US Army and US Marines are fighting the war over here 24/7 and the Iraqi Army (who is supposed to be taking over) is working 6 months out of the year. When we directed the change, the Iraqi soldiers RIOTED. They burned stuff, tore stuff down, beat themselves, and threw their weapons and uniforms away. Point being, all that was over a 7 day change in the schedule. This is a culture that is used to over-reaction and to "making a statement". Everything they do is for your viewing pleasure. I just wouldn't get too caught up in the mass group rhetoric. The same people that danced around Saddam H's fallen statue are the same people that will the next day dance in the streets next to a destroyed US vehicle with body parts strewn across the street. They just react...with very little thought and they definetly flow with the tide, like desert nomads. There is a significant Mob mentality in this country and it is a cultural trait that is foreign to a more Privacy Oriented American point of view. "that would rather cost the clerics political capital than gain them anything." Point ON!! "That's my guess anyway, but you'd know better than I how accurate it is." I think you are right on the button. Calculated gain, maximum exposure, minimal risk. The cowards fight. If the Imams and Clerics would stand up to terrorist Muslims who kill Muslims in direct violation of the Koran...then, they might be on to something. It is typical religious hypocrisy (but that, I think, is a whole different conversation).

9 They're not going to stand up to Muslim on Muslim violence, because a Shiite is kaffir in the eyes of a Sunni, and vice versa. They don't need a reason for it. They'll just create one. What a God awful mess these people are.

10 Gunny, the problem has now come to our shores. What do you suggest happen here, as Islam is growing. Please do not compare this subject to Europes past. I am talking right now, right here. Thank you for your service to our country.

11 Leatherneck, First off, let me say “Semper Fidelis”. Now...on to the discussion. "the problem has now come to our shores. What do you suggest happen here, as Islam is growing." Well, I am not too sure that American Muslims are going to be quite the problems as they are in the Middle East. We have this great thing called "Separation of church and state"; allowing this nation to proceed and develop laws not based on the bible (more or less) or the Koran, but developed on a collective elected moral agenda. We have a government that is fluid and expendable, and we have the right to deny or accept religion at whim. They don't. Every country in the Middle East is dominated be Religion. It permeates every facet of their life. Channel 8, Ali Al Salem TV, is the 100% prayer channel, all day, every day, and is the most watched channel in the region. You asked me not to allude to European history and I won't, but I will say that one of the saving graces in this country was the Constitution taking religious power out of the government, a prime reason for a large amount of our founding fathers immigration to this nation. The Afghani constitution states that no law can be made which is against the Koran and/or Islamic law. Could you imagine if the US Constitution said no law could be made that goes against the bible? I think we would have a significantly different culture. Old Testament or New? Kosher or not? America will be little affected by Islam. The practitioners of Islam in America are bound by American law first and the Koran second. They cannot have two wives, they cannot stone their wives in the streets, and they sure as hell cannot kill another Muslim because he up and decides to become a Christian, a wiccan, or a scientologist. It is just illegal. What should America do? HOLD THE LINE. Stay strong to the principals that have made her strong. Don't fold to the international pressure to give in. That is OUR hallmark. We MUST allow all people to have the freedom to follow their religious beliefs, within the law, but we must ensure that the law protects all people, Muslim and Christian, Sunni and Shiite, Tom Cruise and Hillary Clinton. We must endure that our government stays secular or becomes even more secular. There are a lot of people that get bent out of shape about prayer in school, in god we trust, and all that other hoop-lah. I for one am not an advocate of changing the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem, but I think we should be a little more sensitive to the effects of religion in the government. While we are, for the most part, free of theocratic involvement in overall politico, we should be aware of what happens when you let it in. Do you want Muslims prayer in your school mandated five times a day? It’ll happen if Christian Prayer in school is allowed. It is just a matter of time. When you take a stance against something, you have to stand still and not tap dance around the issue. Mad about a Muslim Government preaching the Koran and manipulating the country based on their religious views? Probably. Mad about a Christian governmental head expounding his views from the political pulpit? Probably not. Is that right? Should religion be allowed in the government? Who knows? I think it should be minimized just to be fair to the melting pot called USA. You can only let it in so much, until it builds, permeates, and then the levy breaks and it’s Louisiana all over again. When a Mosque in downtown L.A. sounds it’s little horn and commences to Jummah on Friday I celebrate a little on the inside because it means America is still free and my oath “to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America, BOTH foreign and domestic” has been fulfilled. When that mosque is denied the right to holler like a dying cat or some Cleric decided to kill his wife because she talked to the fruit vendor at Piggly Wiggly, well then it is time to drop the proverbial hammer and let the system run. but thats just a dumb grunts opinion.

12 That doesn't sound anything like dumb statements from a dumb grunt to me.Actually,sir it sounds very statesmen like and also you throw out a lot of wisdom,two bad our modern day pols couldn't give the explanation you just did.Also,Thank you for your service and Semper Fi

13 Our only problem here is determining which Muslims respect the law of the land and which ones are coming over here to attempt rally support for a radical agenda or to use our system against us. We fail somewhat in that respect. Yet, for the most part those Muslims here in the states are freedom loving people and are here to escape Sharia law and oppression. They understand what is at stake.

14 I hope you are right, Oyster, I hope you are right. But I doubt I. We'll see.

15 And at the same time the liberal left-wing news media are always yammering about christian fundalmentalists who oppose evolution,sex education, revionists history,enviromentalist education, and such and hardly say a thing about the radical clerics