September 19, 2005
Light Posting Alert
Three reasons:
1) Katrina. I'm broke. Despite the crazy blog money rumors, I don't have any. So, I'm putting my time where my wallet can't help.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
08:00 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 213 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Take care of yourself. Bringing a Washington Times into A Unitarian Church is much more dangerous in my eyes than having a Fatwa issued against you.
Can not wait till your triumphal return.
Tom
Posted by: Tom at September 19, 2005 08:10 PM (yM9MF)
2
Are you not allowed to blog within the Unitard community? I fail to see how this affects your output.
Dude, if you would like a pleasantly meaningless denomination with minimal biblical requirements, join the Episcopalians. You get wine at communion and it smells like incense and alcoholism, instead of Unitarians (which smell like hemp and cabbage).
Posted by: See-dubya at September 19, 2005 08:16 PM (EufM0)
3
So, dude, where's the link to the padme/leia photoshop?
Posted by: Partisan Pundit at September 19, 2005 09:37 PM (ukBP3)
4
Wait, you mean the Universalist-Unitarians aren't the ones that mass marry? You know, the Moonies, right? Dayamn, and here I have been waiting all this time for my arranged marriage with a Korean chick! This goes a long way in explaining why we had Communion 'brownies' last week........
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 19, 2005 09:48 PM (JQjhA)
5
Unitarians see through Bush, Unification followers run Washington Times, get it?
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 20, 2005 06:27 AM (VhNDM)
6
Really screw with the left and join a Four Square Church. They (I guess I should say we) are a small denomimation that grew in the 60s and 70s by drafting
hippie evangelicals. That seeming contradiction should throw Kos & Company for a loop.
The first 30 minutes of our service is a Christian rock concert (our church has 3 bands that rotate Sundays). We don't have hymnals; instead lyrics are projected up a concert-sized big screen behind the band. Our lead pastor is an aging California surfer who rarely wears anything other than shorts and flip flops while delivering his sermon, and we have coffee and donuts available at the back the entire time (and it is perfectly acceptable to get either at any time). After services, we have snowcones.
Of course, part of the fun is telling all this to my uber-religiously conservative deacon father-in-law, who is convinced we've joined a cult. :-)
Nothing gives him the willies more than telling him I'm taking his wife and granddaughter to have "baptisms and snowcones at the Karaoke church."
The fact that they are really good church is just an added bonus.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 20, 2005 09:06 AM (2cgwG)
7
Nothing wrong with hippie church, especially considering Jesus was a big hippie. Think about it; he didn't work, had long hair, freeloaded off everyone, and talked about peace and love and the virtues of being broke. Come to think of it, he was a follower of Buddha, who was perhaps the first hippie, as he was born to wealth, but instead of being productive, encouraged generations of young men and women to rebel against prosperity.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 20, 2005 10:31 AM (0yYS2)
8
Jesus worked. First he was a carpenter then he was a preacher. I agree that there is nothing wrong with a celebration of G-d as opposed to a mourning. And snow cones are really just cool.
Posted by: Defense Guy at September 20, 2005 11:01 AM (jPCiN)
9
Rusty:
I'm involved in a project with the Red Cross that takes 10 to 11 hours a day. I've pretty much suspended blogging.
Posted by: Demosophist at September 20, 2005 11:05 AM (00zgk)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Report from Hurricane Zone: The Unavoidable Tragedy
As some of you know, I spent the weekend down in the Gulf helping victims of hurricane Katrina. The area I was in was about 45 miles inland from the coast, so I'm sure that I did not see the worst of it. But after seeing the devestation of the storm, I think I am now in a better position to comment on the grand-standing and finger-pointing of politicians and of pundits alike:
you are all full of an enormous amount of bullshit.
The biggest bullshit coming from partisans on the Left, trying to blame the federal government, and partisans on the Right, trying to blame local governments, is that the response was somehow too slow. Let me briefly explain.
Nearly a hundred miles inland I began to see downed trees. By the time we approached about the sixty mile mark from the coast (we were driving from Jackson, Mississipi, towards the coast--so, say 20 miles outside of Hattiesburg) it became worse. Much worse.
Downed trees lined the road. I presume that the majority of them were blown across the highway during the hurricane. They had been roughly cut and then dragged to the side of the road, . Hundreds of them. No, thousands of them.
Each tree had to be moved just to let traffic flow. Every. Single. One. For mile upon mile upon mile. For hundreds of miles. In every direction. This takes time.
And as lanes were cleared and highways opened, trucks and supplies had to move into the zone at the same time as hundreds of thousands of people were trying to move out.
If getting people out of the zone of destruction was a logistical nightmare, getting relief in was an equally daunting task.
Now imagine that same task, and add on severe flooding. Also, you don't know how deep the water is between point A and point B. Difficult under any circumstances, nearly impossible when such a large area was affected.
I spent most of Saturday and Sunday cutting trees off of people's roofs, sheds, and dog pens. By the time we got to their houses most of the trees had been cut out of the roads and driveways, but this took some time depending on a lot of factors.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
07:53 PM
| Comments (33)
| Add Comment
Post contains 856 words, total size 5 kb.
1
thanks for getting your hands dirty on behalf of us who are unable to go there ourselves.
Loved the article.
Posted by: Jonathan at September 19, 2005 12:15 PM (ywZa8)
Posted by: From the Swamp at September 19, 2005 12:18 PM (7evkT)
3
Rusty:
Good for you! I'm helping to staff the Red Cross Information line, and will probably be moved to the Emergency Financial Assistance line today, because that's where the bottleneck seems to be. I've got stories, but I need to get to the phone lines right now. Maybe later...
Posted by: Demosophist at September 19, 2005 12:27 PM (g6GlX)
4
Thanks for going down there and thank for offering some perspective.
Posted by: ShrinkWrapped at September 19, 2005 01:12 PM (SahF3)
5
Way to put your back into it Rusty. A buddy sent me this a while back.
Comment hat tip: Pam
Posted by: Howie at September 19, 2005 01:23 PM (D3+20)
6
Rusty, I'll second that emotion on the air conditioning. As someone who grew up in the South prior to A/C, I can attest to the misery that life in the South was before we had it.
A Sunday morning sitting through preaching with a shirt and tie on in the middle of July watching the gyrations of a red wasp and wondering whose hair it would end up in was about the only thing that got my mind off the heat and humidity.
Oh, Rusty, welcome back, and thanks for everything you did for the people on the Gulf Coast. We need more people like you.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 19, 2005 01:23 PM (rUyw4)
7
Yeah I' so far inland but when the storm came through it was still a tropical storm. Really out of the ordinary. Two trees down and over the road on the way to work. One just North of Etown ILL and one at Dixon Springs. If the rain and wind can take down trees 8 to 10 hrs drive inland i can only imagine.
Posted by: Howie at September 19, 2005 01:29 PM (D3+20)
8
Thanks all. I may be headed down there again next weekend, depending on a few things.
Posted by: Rusty at September 19, 2005 01:32 PM (JQjhA)
9
There were trees down and major power outages as far north as Nashville, Tennessee. Schools turned out due to flooding.
Posted by: Razorgirl at September 19, 2005 02:19 PM (H+tJ8)
10
I have to agree with the Dr.'s assessment of the response. It was a huge disaster and getting that much man power and equipment into a devastated area takes time.
Cutting funding for the levies, though, seems penny wise, but pound foolish. That $71.2 million the Army Corps of Engineers wanted is cheap compared to what it will cost to rebuild.
Posted by: John Gillnitz at September 19, 2005 03:25 PM (eHLUP)
11
Thanks for the perspective, Rusty. And thank you for putting up.
Posted by: Brian B at September 19, 2005 04:22 PM (CouWh)
12
Sorry, Chicken Hawk.
The U.S. government is far bigger right now than the Soviet's ever were. Nice apology for bush boy though.
bok bok, coward.
Posted by: Lars Gruber at September 19, 2005 05:06 PM (NXi5I)
13
There's always one in the crowd, isn't there?
Posted by: Oyster at September 19, 2005 05:15 PM (YudAC)
14
As for your conservative t-shirt ad, how about a more appropriate slogan that reads, "I Love My Fake Boobs!"
Posted by: Lars Gruber at September 19, 2005 05:24 PM (NXi5I)
15
Give it up. Though there's plenty of blame to go around, you must finally accept the fact that the Feds weren't there when they should have been.
Your argument that our government is too small doesn't fly. Obviously we have more resources than Russia.Donald Rumsfeld claimed that we had plenty of National Guard. If we had competent leadership, they would have responded sooner, no excuses, no rationalizations.
Posted by: Jim Hudson at September 19, 2005 05:31 PM (AlMv0)
16
Where do these leftard morons come from? They appear, crap their moronic drivel all over the place, then leave. Back to Kos, maybe? That's the only place I can think of that carries such a heavily negative average IQ as to produce such bastard offsprings of stupidity and arrogance.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 19, 2005 05:51 PM (0yYS2)
17
Rusty, you are right, I have been unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time 6 times in my life, and weathered hurricanes here in NC and in Fl when I was a kid. The root mass from a big live oak can be 15 feet tall. Trees like that need D9's to push around, and take forever to chop into manageable chunks otherwise. And that's just one tree..then imagine, everyfuckingwhere you go. That was Hugo. Floyd was flood city, dead hogs all over.
But, the media has put to much blame on Bush. There needs to be some fingerpointing at local and state governments in La. They have a history of being corrupt and inept, and this hurricane exposed that in a big way.
And I don't give a goddamn if anyone thinks I am racist: New Orleans looked like fucking Port au Prince, after one day. With fucking black po-lice pushing a fucking shopping cart through Wal-mart, "finding" shoes and electronics with the rest of the lucky "finders". Those were not poor starving people looting the WalMart for big screen TV's, it was the cream of Jesse's and Kanye's crop, it be they muthafuckin right to be takin that muthafuckin shit! The hurricane painted the po' downtrodden african americans as a group of people with zero morals and negative accountability.
And then we still have half a nation of ass-fucks like some of the above commenters who can't seem to pull their heads out for a fresh breath and see the light.
Posted by: Mr. K at September 19, 2005 06:30 PM (AoovO)
18
We got a Salon.com mention today for this post. That always brings the trolls out. Not that I'm complaining, but you'd think they'd have a better arguement than 'chickenhawk' and 'you're stupid'.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 19, 2005 08:06 PM (JQjhA)
19
Dear Sir,
Back in 1962, I was just a kid during the Columbus Day Storm.
The damage estimates for the storm were conservatively given at 280 million (1.8 billion in today's dollars).
In 1948 the City of Vanport was destroyed. Vanport was the second largest city in Oregon. It was destroyed by a flood. And in the aftermath, claims of racism were prevelant. Oregon was a state where a large membership in the KKK had been established. If you look up the Vanport Flood you'll find more than enough evidence of that fact.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that a lot of what you're hearing is being fed by the 24-hour news cycle. That's not bad.
But we in Oregon are subjected to winds of 70-100 miles an hour each and every year. You'll never hear it, because we don't have much of a population out here. We've had our share of disaster, but we keep going. We build well and shoulder the cost of our decisions.
When winds carry into my favorite vacation place, St. Maarten, they rebuild. When winds come to my home, we rebuild. We pay for it. You choose where you live. We don't have killer snakes or bugs. We don't have tornadoes. But we do have a responsibility. To take care of ourselves. I guess you don't have to be responsible for your choices if you live in Louisians.
Posted by: OregonGuy at September 19, 2005 10:51 PM (m2tsf)
20
Well rusty, when the posts themselves don't raise above the level of rush after a binge week a little chicken hawk is to be expected. BTW, notice any interesting poll numbers lately?
Hmmmmm????
Posted by: God at September 19, 2005 11:31 PM (SSKLv)
21
I'm sure it's tough. That's not the point.
For only one example - how is any of this a reason why Brown only found out about the deteriorating Superdome sitch, on the 3rd day of it's reporting on cable news? Why weren't supplies airlifted in, and people airlifted out, in a specific plan laid out ahead of time, with resources already heading in one hour after the storm had abated?
The fact remains that US Fed responded to the Indonesian tsunami quicker. The US Fed and FEMA both responded to the 2004 Florida hurricane season quicker. So we know they can do better. In New Orleans, they did not.
Nagin, Blanco, Bush and Brown all made mistakes. Nagin is accountable to New Orleans voters, Blanco is accountable to Lousiana voters.
Bush is accountable to all US voters.
Now if Bush had spent the whole 5 days, 2 before the hurricane struck and 3 after, on the phone ordering Blanco to get it together; AND sent in the available hospital ship and other military that were awaiting orders, AND put through the paperwork that would have put New Mexico's Nat'l Guard on the ground maintaining order, etc. etc. - and Blanco had resisted them, while Bush was doing EVERYTHING HE COULD, then you might be able to say he is not responsible.
But Bush thought it was more important to fly out to California for photo ops, eat birthday cake with John McCain, and party on his playtime ranch, than DO HIS JOB and straighten out the sitch on the ground.
If you conservatives and Republicans really believe in accountability, you will find this unacceptable.
Posted by: jim at September 20, 2005 03:03 AM (8II09)
22
You are right, Jim. The President of the United States should tell every mayor and governor in the United States exactly how they should wipe their ass, and the federal government should send a highly paid counselor to hold their hand when they do it.
And after all, should we expect a governor and a mayor elected by the caliber of fine folks we saw looting and shooting, and generally complicating the "sitch" on the ground to be capable of making even one correct, timely decision all by themselves? Of course not; they be needin good ole Massa Bush to be comin an' bailin' they ass out the shit.
Posted by: Mr. K at September 20, 2005 06:07 AM (cFl5Z)
23
Meanwhile, Bush's wildman government is going to burn hundreds of tons of British food aid instead of giving it to the hungry!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16147117&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=exclusive--58--up-in-flames-name_page.html
BUSH FIRE???!!!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 20, 2005 06:30 AM (VhNDM)
24
And all the Bushi-Likudniks must be mad because Samfester is going to destroy ISRAELI pear juice, too.
"There will be a cloud of smoke above Little Rock soon - of burned food, of anger and of shame that the world's richest nation couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and lets Americans starve while they arrogantly observe petty regulations.
Everyone is revolted by the chaotic shambles the US is making of this crisis. Guys from Unicef are walking around spitting blood.
This is utter madness. People have worked their socks off to get food into the region."
Two slaps in the face to Israel and the UK - straight from Bush's blackjack.
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 20, 2005 06:59 AM (VhNDM)
25
Jim's post is a perfect example of how liberals expect, no, they demand, ever bigger and more intrusive nanny-state government, kinda like Communist countries have, which are so well run and benefit the people so much with their free education, free health care, and free firing squads. Liberals are incapable of looking after themselves, and refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, yet they want to do the thinking for all of us.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 20, 2005 02:44 PM (0yYS2)
26
Rusty,
As a Bush-hating moderate, I applaud your post, especially how you end it. Ultimately, I have my suspicions about how things could have been done better by many levels of government; not just in the immediate aftermath, but for several years preceding Katrina. But even so, it's a little early to come to any firm conclusions. The fact is, the facts aren't all in. It's going to take a long time to sort through all the information and decide who was responsible and to what degree.
Nevertheless, there are some really ignorant posts here on both sides of the fence. Of course, the interloping Salon-led liberals, tossing off a few disparaging remarks without engaging in any kind of conversation, they are just pathetic. But also, I see plenty of conservative stupidity here.
My favorite is Mr K's rants against black people. How much looting actually occurred in New Orleans, and how much usually occurs in the aftermath of a disaster like this? Like most everyone else, he's content to draw broad sweeping conclusions from a a few scant televised images. Some people really trust their media, I guess. He's willing to say:
"The hurricane painted the po' downtrodden african americans as a group of people with zero morals and negative accountability."
What, all of them? What percentage actually engaged in looting? Ever think that maybe the media's take on the looting was influenced by the racial angle? No? Well, if I'm wrong, show me some numbers. What, you don't have any? I guess that makes it easier to talk out of your ass. I'm glad to know that the internet has such bold rebels against the evil PC empire that they are courageously willing to speak their minds, DAMN THE SENSITIVE LIBERALS, because you're just that kind of freedom fighter. Allow me to stand in awe.
To the far more reasonable OregonGuy, I can only say it's a lot easier to rebuild a country town than an entire city. If you REALLY want them to rebuild it themselves, I hope you're willing to wait a while for them to bring the ports and refineries online, while our gas prices continue to hover at the $3 mark. The point is, things are just different when you're talking about a major urban center; it has national importance. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of displaced people bereft of jobs, homes and infrastructure. It's just not in the same category. To be fair, I wonder whether Oregon contributes its fair share to federal taxes. From what I know, most rural states are beneficiaries of federal tax revenues in so-called blue states. I don't know specifically about Oregon, but I wouldn't be surprised if us New Yorkers are losing money to you. Of course, this doesn't bother me much because we're all Americans, and we're in this together.
Speaking of which, thanks Rusty, for your help with those unfortunates on the gulf coast.
Posted by: Some Fella at September 20, 2005 03:18 PM (k9rhx)
27
I read somewhere that we were able to airlift supplies into Indonesia 2 days after the tsunami hit. Why did it take state and federal agencies 5 days in our own country?
Or have I been misinformed about the response to the tsunami?
Posted by: brainypirate at September 20, 2005 05:05 PM (mJxjw)
28
Rusty, that totally rocks that you did that. I ditto the thanks from those of us who can't get there.
Posted by: Maureen at September 20, 2005 07:41 PM (ny5O/)
29
Rusty,
There were many avoidable aspects of the Katrina tragedy. It was reported on CNN today that FEMA physically denied doctors access to dehydrated patients who later died. That is prima facie criminal negligence.
White House Spokesman Scott McClellan clearly stated just last week that responsibility for FEMA's bungled and criminaly negligent response led directly to "The President".
What we have witnessed was raw government failure - a cruel rupture of the social contract people and the state are bound by.
As many people have died from FEMA's criminal negligence and FEMA responsibility leads to President Bush, it is hig time that the people initiate long overdue articles of impeachment.
Posted by: Collin Baber at September 20, 2005 10:50 PM (cfr2H)
30
Rusty,
There were many avoidable aspects of the Katrina tragedy. It was reported on CNN today that FEMA physically denied doctors access to dehydrated patients who later died. That is prima facie criminal negligence.
White House Spokesman Scott McClellan clearly stated just last week that responsibility for FEMA's bungled and criminaly negligent response led directly to "The President".
What we have witnessed was raw government failure - a cruel rupture of the social contract people and the state are bound by.
As many people have died from FEMA's criminal negligence and FEMA responsibility leads to President Bush, it is high time that the people initiate long overdue articles of impeachment.
Posted by: Collin Baber at September 20, 2005 10:50 PM (cfr2H)
31
The single biggest thing I'm seeing that is pissing me off is that people are blaming other people for an act of nature.
Yes, the Federal response was slow-Bush unquestionably shoved a know-nothing into the job of FEMA head thinking it didn't matter (Clinton had a guy who was experienced in local and state disaster relief).
Yes, the local/state governments had little or no plan-it is typical of Southern politics, same as the last 140 years.
But, and this is important so pay attention, MOST OF WHAT HAPPENED WOULD HAVE HAPPENED NO MATTER WHAT. An enormous hurricane hit the country after years without a really bad one. Things, NATURAL THINGS, went very badly for us.
You can only logically blame Bush or the local/state governments to the extent that they are responsible-the margins between what happened and what might have. And, frankly, those are mighty slim.
Just as humans did centuries ago, we blame people for disasters. Burn witches for a bad crop, burn politicos for a hurricane.
How far we've come.
Posted by: Jon at September 21, 2005 05:09 AM (xzXuK)
32
Johnny,
Politico pricks who blocked the poor and the black from getting help are going to pay the political price for it. Evil Bush and his horse-ass minions are to blame 100% for all the levee funding robbery, the delay in aid and more.
Just like my old challenge to the Klanroosters: Show me one picture of a bloated white body in New Orleans, just one, Johnny!
America is the laughing stock of the whole world, as even Commie Cuba couldn't have screwed up so criminally bad. BUSH couldn't organize a drunkfest in a goddamn brewery. He is a fraud, a chump, a chimp and a loser of America's lives. What an indefensible scumbag punk!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 21, 2005 06:49 AM (VhNDM)
33
Some Fella:
If so many can infer that the response was slow because the people in the videos are black, it is equally fair to label an entire population based on the behavior seen in the same set of images.
Thank you for enjoying the writing that came out of my ass, as you note with the expected condescension of the prig that you are.
Yes, my posts are sarcastic as hell, because the bullshit is a lot deeper than the flood.
Posted by: Mr. K at September 21, 2005 08:44 PM (m1lCm)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 16, 2005
Michael Yon Podcast
Here's your chance to hear Michael Yon.
Shawn at Bareknucklepolitics interviews him here. Yon is one of the few embedded reporters sticking it out in Iraq and, unlike the talking heads on CNN, Fox, and NBC who don't ever leave the Green Zone, is actually out and about reporting facts from the ground.
Posted by: Rusty at
08:56 AM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 59 words, total size 1 kb.
September 15, 2005
Filthy-Dego-Wop Romans, the Conservatives That Love Them, and the Beginning of Empire (UPDATED)
Why are so many conservatives fascinated with Rome? Personally, I think it's latent homosexuality. In contrast,
Dean Esmay has a more serious take on the same question for you conservatives of what he calls "the America sucks right."
These are the guys at your church that think God has an invisible shield over the U.S., and that as America slouches toward Gomorroh he slowly raises the shield. This line of thought can go to the extreme and become one that basically says were doomed, DOOMED, DOOMED!
In many ways, this argument is very similar to the namby-pambies of the 'hate America first' Left and self-proclaimed paleocons on the Right who share the belief that America is destined for failure, soon, because that is the fate of all empires.
The remedy? End the empire, bring troops home, etc. Only by ending the empire can America be saved.
Which, of course, is stupid, since at any point in Rome's history the same argument could have been made. Bring troops home from Palestine now, one could have argued in 70 C.E. Of course, 300 years later you would have found the city of Caesaria, near modern Haifa, bustling with activity--all of it Roman.
And what is so great about the Romans anyway? Filthy mass-murdering buggers that they were. Dean writes:
They were a vicious, savage people, given to mass murder on a scale that would make Saddam Hussein seem like a piker--and that was while their Empire was growing. Julius Caesar, before he seized power and turned Rome into an Empire, boasted of slaughtering over 100,000 people in just one of his jaunts into Gaul. Not 100,000 on the battlefield either--no, this included razing villages, hacking off the heads of children, women, old men, the crippled and lame. This was celebrated as a part of Ceasar's greatness, with triumphal celebrations and murals and statues showing in gory detail as Ceasar and his troops raped barbarian women and sliced barbarian children's heads off.
All that, and Rome's greatest days were yet ahead of her.
Let me just add a few other things. The Romans were not the biggest, not the most powerful, and certainly not the most long-lasting empire the world has ever known.
Biggest: British empire. At one time controlled a quarter of the world.
Most powerful: U.S., present day. Is there any doubt about this? Ok, we'll give special runner-up status to Alexander's short-lived but very kick-ass empire and a tie going to Genghis Khan's Mongolian hordes.
Longest lasting: China is by far the longest lasting empire ever known. Before the Romans even began to consolidate power let alone think of empire, China was already an imperial power. The Chinese Empire begins in 221 BCE. And when did it end? It hasn't. Even when China is conquered by external forces, such as during the Mongolian invasion, it continued. Instead of 'Mongolionizing' the Chinese, the Mongolians were Chinafied. How's that for 'end of empire' theory!
And China was, and is, a real empire. Not an empire in the Leninst sense of the word, or an empire in the dependency literature of the new Left, or like an empire, or an empire defined by--well, by whatever definition suits the purposes of polemists who wish to use the word to describe something they don't like, namely, America.
So, when did the Chinese Empire fall? It didn't. It's still in existance today. So, there's no more Emperor. Big deal. Go to modern China today and you will see it is not a 'nation-state' but an Imperial power. Nearly half of China's land mass is located West of where most Han Chinese live. Ask the Uygyars of Xinjiang or Tibetans if China isn't an 'empire'.
The Chinese Empire might suck every bit as much as the Roman one did, but it has lasted for 2,226 years and shows no sign of falling.
Even if we were to date the beginning of the modern Chinese Empire with reunification under the Sui Dynasty in 589 and date its end (wrongfully, I believe) to 1949, when The People's Republic was set up, that's an empire that lasts 1360 years!!
And we've been around, what, a couple hundred years? I bet it will be another 500 before we even begin to invent a food dish that is the cultural equvalent of the all important General Tsao's Orange Chicken.
Is America doomed? Hell no! World, you aint seen nothin' yet.
UPDATE: First, apologies for mispelling 'dego'. It should be dago. Laura is right--if you're going to use racial slurs to get people's attention you really ought to spell it right. I guess I just don't use racist terminology enough......
Second, Dean's orginal post was in response to an updated post by La Shawn Barber, who I have a great deal of respect for, but who I also disagree. Dean has a related posts here.
Like James Joyner, who enters the discussion here, I also have many concerns about some of the moral decline of America. I just believe that the argument that such declines preceed the downfall of a civilization are not backed by historical facts. If one wishes to argue that cultural decline preceeds the downfall of a civilization, I believe you are on to a more solid argument. One that is not, of course, without its own flaws. Part of what makes American culture so different than those others, though, is its ability to adapt and change over time. Further, if anything, American culture is still on the rise and spreading across the globe
La Shawn's argument actually is religious, if you go read her post. As a religious person--which I actually am to the surprise and shock of my readers (You thought I was kidding about being a Christian Universalist who happens to believe only Mormons go to heaven and that God is really a Buddhist?)--I believe La Shawn is basically right in her assessment and characterization of moral issues (with the exception of her not distinguishing between good gay and bad gay). As you all know I don't believe in gay marriage, as a rule, unless it is between two very hot chicks.
But, if you'll close your Qurans for a moment and open the Bible to the book of Ecclesiastes--the entire book--I believe you'll find that the good preacher notices something that many Christians today have overlooked. Let me quote him from the NIV, chapter 8, verse 10:
There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: righteous men who get what the wicked deserve, and wicked men who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless.
Indeed. Long before Gibbons poor observations on the decline of empire, King Solomon (ascribed) noticed that the wicked often prosper and the righteous often suffer. Buddha, for the non-Christian, made much the same observation. That is just life.
I would suggest to the religious-right in America, and this includes Doc Rampage who makes an even more overtly religious argument here, not to make the error that their theological reading of history is orthodoxy. Even if one were to read the Bible in this way, one might make the argument that God punished the nation of Israel when it was wicked, and blessed it when it prospered, but that Israel is a covenant nation, different then the rest. Rome was not Israel, and neither is America.
Rampage is right, of course, that this is 'in house' fighting. Chomsky hates America, La Shawn doesn't.
Further, I thought it was the Romans that killed Jesus, the encarnation of God in the flesh--something my Sunday School teachers taught was kind of like the ultimate sinful behavior--and yet Rome grew and prospered for hundreds of years after that. I also seem to recall something about throwing Christians to lions, crucifying Peter upside down, and even one emperor (Nero) using them as human torches. All of this, of course, as they were busy buggering (not being buggered, mind you) young boys in the traditional Greek fashion.
And as for China, the longest lasting empire, did you know that the practice of polygamy was not done away with until this century? I have a friend from Hong Kong who comes from the noble class. His grandfather had many wives, not even counting all the concubines.
Last, let me just clarify that I do not believe that America is really an 'empire' in the same way that Rome was or that modern polemists believe. I thought I had made that clear in the paragraph about definitions of empire, but I guess I hadn't. America is Iraq is not empire. California Mafia has a related point here.
However, if you were to define America's empire as within the boundaries of the United States, then I might concede the point. We certainly conquered a lot of territory, colonized it, culturally extinguished native peoples, and subjected them to our wills. Go to Hawaii. Forget Hawaii, go to Virginia. That seems a lot like empire my friends.
Posted by: Rusty at
06:08 PM
| Comments (32)
| Add Comment
Post contains 1520 words, total size 10 kb.
1
If you're going to wax poetic about empire maybe you should first define the term. Comparing, for instance, the U.S. to Rome is kind of stupid. Just because a contry is powerful and influential doesn't make it an "empire" in my book. Most empires I ever heard of get some land and tribute as part of the deal.
Posted by: Carlos at September 15, 2005 06:29 PM (8e/V4)
2
Yeah, we're actually the opposite of an empire, since we spend our wealth and blood for the sake of others' freedom, though nobody appreciates it. Personally, I wish we would say screw the world and let them eat one another, and nuke anyone to glowing embers who messes with us.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 15, 2005 06:35 PM (0yYS2)
3
Look if you're gonna use ethnic slurs, at least SPELL it right.....it's DAGO.
LOL.
Posted by: Laura at September 15, 2005 07:12 PM (L3PPO)
4
Getting Chinafied for tomorrow sounds good. I'm getting the Kung Pao. Mo likes her chicken spicey.
Posted by: Maureen at September 15, 2005 07:36 PM (ny5O/)
5
For all the people who condemn America for committing "genocide" (another word the left has coopted and corrupted), they should read up on the Punic Wars to find out what
genocide REALLY means.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 15, 2005 08:12 PM (CJBEv)
6
I liked what Michael Ledeen said a few years ago: China is a civilization masquerading as a nation-state.
Also what Jonah Goldberg said:
Now, the fact that we are not an empire, but could be one if we wanted to, confuses the dickens of all sorts of people. Indeed, some people find the idea so confusing they willfully refuse to believe it and just go on insisting we are an empire the way the guy in the Monty Python skit just kept insisting the parrot wasn't dead. ... Europeans who did have colonies and who did invade both their neighbors and distant lands for material gain — and, to be fair, for more ideologically complex motives — have a hard time computing that America isn't behaving the way they did. They think they've evolved past us, that they are on the same road as us and are simply a few miles ahead of us on the path to enlightenment. What they can't grasp is that America took a different fork in the road a couple of centuries ago. We can argue about who's on the high road or the low road now, but we're on different roads.
Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at September 15, 2005 08:22 PM (aL2tJ)
7
I don't like Chinese, but my cousin's wife from South Louisiana sure does make a mean "wop" salad.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 15, 2005 08:30 PM (q9AWQ)
8
God helps those who help themselves. The U.S. is better than everyone else at helping themselves in defense of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!
Oh yeah, right makes right.[done on purpose]
Posted by: The Uncooperative Blogger at September 15, 2005 08:42 PM (ud47f)
9
Yo, Vinnie the ninnie...
"Is anyone honestly suggesting that the Cole was bombed 20 years ago because America was a den of sinfulness on Ronald Reagan's watch?"
Well? It wasn't, was it? How's that for accurate?
Posted by: kermit at September 15, 2005 08:52 PM (DX+fh)
10
Most of the time, when the Legions were brought back to Rome, it was so they could put their commander in charge...So "the bring the troops home" folks better be careful....
Posted by: MKL at September 15, 2005 09:15 PM (3fpKJ)
11
Tsao's Chicken was invented in America! Wiki it! God Bless AMERICA, BAAYYYBEEEE!
Posted by: NewOrleanian at September 15, 2005 11:30 PM (d6mij)
12
Wow Vinnie's quite the little troll isn't he? Yes, I obviously mis-wrote, I was thinking about the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1983 under Reagan. The Cole was in 2000. Sorry 'bout that.
As for people at the State Department reading my blog: some of them do. :-)
However, I only made the statement because some Yemeni government weasels were reading it and I wanted to bug 'em.
Posted by: Dean Esmay at September 15, 2005 11:33 PM (98KKP)
13
By the way Rusty, I don't think I implied that Rome was the biggest Empire of all time, just the largest in history up until that time. Although now that I think on it, China may have been bigger at the time....
Posted by: Dean Esmay at September 15, 2005 11:34 PM (98KKP)
14
So the "America Sucks Right" is the Left's answer to the Right's "hate America Left"? Very clever. Kudos. You might actually get some traction with about 6 ignorant boobs out there.
Posted by: dcb at September 16, 2005 12:18 AM (8e/V4)
15
Dean,
That's fine, it was a minor point. The larger point, of course, being that the Romans weren't the end-all be-all of Empire.
All--on "empire",
I was being kind of snarky in the post. It's the concede the point that America is an Empire and then argue "so what?" The paragraph about definitions was supposed to kind of draw that out.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 16, 2005 07:59 AM (JQjhA)
16
As a conservative, I like to watch History Channel shows about Rome because of the interesting architecture and their regular people. In alot of ways, modern day culture is like Roman culture (not just in America), but in just as many ways, it is different. We all like going to sports arenas, we like spas, we like being social in large buildings and wearing cool clothing... It's the values of the people that are different. We value life much more than the Romans did, and our society is built around this core value. God bless America.
Posted by: RepJ at September 16, 2005 09:11 AM (XAq/v)
17
You rascist infidels! Even Karen Hughes addressed Muslims last week! And we all know Hillary kissed Suha Arafat!
"The Battle of Tours (often called the Battle of Poitiers, but not to be confused with the Battle of Poitiers, 1356) was fought on October 25, 732 between forces under the Frankish leader Charles Martel and an Islamic army led by Emir Abd er Rahman. During the battle, the Franks defeated the Islamic army and Emir Abd er Rahman was killed. The result of this battle stopped the northward advance of Islam from Spain. This battle is considered by most historians to be of macrohistorical importance, in that it may have halted the invasion of Europe by Muslims, and preserved Christianity as the controlling faith, during a period in which Islam was overrunning the remains of the old Roman and Persian Empires."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
Posted by: Demoralize Americans Telethon at September 16, 2005 11:52 AM (SgJ1P)
18
Just to clarify: I didn't mean to imply that I agree with the argument that God rewards and punishes nations today like he did Israel. I just wanted to point out that this isn't one of those specially-invented accusations that no one would pretend to care about except that it suits their rhetorical purposes. By contrast, the America-hating Left is always coming up with novel accusations. Expressing contempt for the US over things that they don't care about when it doesn't apply to the US.
Posted by: Doc Rampage at September 16, 2005 02:42 PM (6IZFG)
19
Rusty, the Romans were indifferent to Jesus' death. It was the Jewish pharisees who wanted Him dead because he was a threat to their corrupt religion.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at September 16, 2005 03:09 PM (OBX/n)
20
YBP: Welcome missed ya
Posted by: Howie at September 16, 2005 03:10 PM (D3+20)
21
But, DAT, I keep hearing from the MSM that the Crusades were the first wars between the Christians and the Muslims. The Christians started all the trouble with the Muslims. The Muslims were just a peaceful people minding their own business and would never attack a Christian. What are you saying here. Surely you must be wrong. The Battle of Tours you refer to was 300 years BEFORE the first Crusade.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 16, 2005 04:16 PM (q9AWQ)
22
Many, including well informed people like Dean Esmay, like to think of the Romans as brutal tyrants. By today's standards, they were. But, the value of life has been increasing since then. In their own time, Rome was the most civilized place on the planet, especially when it was still a republic. While they did commit acts of brutality, they also, just as frequently, opened their arms to the hoards they had conquered, offered to assimilate them, enrich them with Roman wealth, and even let them continue to worship their own pantheon of gods. The conquered were often astounded by how the Romans could so thouroughly trounce then on the battlefield, yet treat them with such mercy immediately after.
Posted by: Doug Purdie at September 16, 2005 05:16 PM (00DOn)
23
The Romans were so barbaric that they had elected leaders and public courts of law at a time when most people were living in tribes with hereditary aristocracies. We mustn't judge their faults by today's standards, but rather we should judge their accomplishments by their own day's standards, but of course, liberals never seem to be able to see the good in any system except, inexplicably, Communism, and conveniently manage to remain in a perpetual state of amnesia regarding the 100,000,000 (that's one hundred million) deaths that Communism has caused, and can only remember to mention that they have free health care.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 16, 2005 05:38 PM (0yYS2)
24
If today's China is a continuation of 500 AD China's empire than the US is surely a coninuation of the Brit empire, which is surely a coninuation of the Roman empire, which "Romanified" barbarian Europe when it was conquered, which was surely a continuation of ancient Greece, which "Greeked-out" Rome when it was conquered by Rome.
Posted by: Harkonnendog at September 16, 2005 06:15 PM (D+qeF)
25
Sorry Harkdog, but no. The US was founded as an entirely new entity based on principles taken from the Roman republic and Athenian democracy, with a dash of parliamentary procedure and a bi-cameral legislature, and was born as a confederacy which grew into a constitutional federal union of states.
Likewise, the British empire was a new entity, born of feudalism, and Rome became an empire after Julius Caesar subjugated lands outside the boundaries of direct Roman control. No Greek but Alexander ever had an empire, and it died with him. You can't compare apples to oranges like that, because there is no direct link from one to the next.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 16, 2005 07:35 PM (0yYS2)
26
Laura beat me to it. Jeez Rusty, if you don't know the word is "Dago," I shudder at what your local slice shop shovels across the counter and says is pizza.
Posted by: TC@LeatherPenguin at September 16, 2005 11:39 PM (kiH79)
27
Beth, you wascal!, WTF are you talking about? Don't be DESPICABLE! by diverging from the point!!!
Posted by: Intolerant Bugs at September 17, 2005 02:02 PM (6Jp/w)
28
Roman Empire almost made it as long as the Chinese. Rome was founded in 753 BC. Roman empire ended in Constanople (Istanbul) in 1453. Looks like the Chinese have them by 10 years acoording to your post.
Most conservatives I know, when comparing the US to the Roman empire, aren't doing it as a compliment, or for a love of all things Roman. Most references to Rome, from conservatives, are about the inherent evil and debauchery of that empire and how it relates to modern day liberalism.
Posted by: Chris at September 17, 2005 03:16 PM (M1mOT)
29
I have reservations about the Romans. as a left-handed person, I feel somewhat unconfortable about the Romans' practice of slaughtering left-handed children.
But still, they were good architects. And sculptors.
Posted by: Norbert the Gnome at September 17, 2005 08:05 PM (AJeHE)
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 18, 2005 12:28 AM (VhNDM)
31
I resemble your racist remarks...damn you!
Posted by: Digger at September 18, 2005 04:32 AM (QgVvl)
32
Why does all this talk of American foreign policy remind me of a penetratingly rancid scene in the film, "Caligula"?
"In the name of Rome?!"
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 18, 2005 07:14 AM (VhNDM)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Deep Thoughts...
by
Jeff Goldstein:
Shearer’s implicit argument that because not everyone who remained behind in NOLA could have been safely evacuated, attempts to evacuate some or most of those left behind could (should?) not have taken place clearly echoes the anti-war argument that because the US can’t simultaneously overthrow every tyrannical dictator in the world, it is somehow indelicate to rid the world of one (even if doing so jibes with our national interests)—and, in the process, frees 25 million people from a murderous Ba’athist rule.
Posted by: Rusty at
04:57 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 88 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Nice try, but they really is no valid tie in between NOLA and Iraq.
Posted by: Kstumpf at September 15, 2005 05:24 PM (gvpiY)
Posted by: Michael at September 15, 2005 05:29 PM (CM3Dm)
3
He's pointing to the mindset of one and how it is reflected in that of the other, Kstumpf.
Again we get another aspect of the party of "No". While one details the reasons why something cannot or could/should not be done, the other points out why it must be tried.
And they call themselves "progressive".
Posted by: Oyster at September 15, 2005 06:24 PM (YudAC)
4
In libspeak, where up is down and black is white, progressive means regressive or recidivistic, which makes perfect sense, and explains why they are infatuated with a 7th century death cult that wants to destroy civilization and take us back 1400 years.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 16, 2005 09:54 AM (0yYS2)
5
Few others could write a sentence like that and have it readable and sensible. Certainly not me! (See above.)
Posted by: slickdpdx at September 16, 2005 11:51 AM (MjGRu)
6
Thank you Oyster, I get that part. I still believe it is a weak attempt to bring the two independent circumstances to gether. That dog don't hunt.
Posted by: Kstumpf at September 16, 2005 03:35 PM (GImrl)
7
Kstumpf, I think you were the one trying to bring them together, not Rusty. ;-)
Posted by: Oyster at September 16, 2005 03:56 PM (fl6E1)
8
Now, really! Does anyone really care what Harry Shearer has to say about anything?
Posted by: Don Miguel at September 16, 2005 04:45 PM (+KixN)
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 18, 2005 07:15 AM (VhNDM)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Socrates: The First Liberal
Guest commentary by Bill Dauterieve:
I was watching "Black Hawk Down" yesterday night. It is a testament to the courage, honor and commitment of American soldiers. I liked the Hollywood treatment of soldiers as a bunch of different guys. You had Obi Wan Kenobi as a office clerk, the Incredible Hulk as a Fonzie like Delta Force fighter, and Lucius Malfoy from Harry Potter as a by-the-book Ranger. When they were under the gun, they set aside all their differences and fought as a single unit. They left no one behind.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
08:29 AM
| Comments (8)
| Add Comment
Post contains 416 words, total size 2 kb.
1
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. HULK ANGRY HULK SMASH, AND FAWKES THE PHOENIX JUST DROPPED A SURPRISE ON MY HEAD
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 09:21 AM (XGDTE)
2
If you liked the movie Black Hawk Down then you should read the book by Mark Bowden. It is far better in my opinion. The movie condensed many of the actual heroes of that fight into a few people in the movie. The book is far better at explaining all aspects including the politics, which the movie barely mentioned.
The most poignant comments in the book are where each member of Task Force Ranger said that they were all deeply disappointed that the Clinton Administration cut and ran without letting them finish the mission. That is a true testament to the courage of our armed forces that the Left have utter loathing for.
Posted by: John Mc at September 15, 2005 09:50 AM (y+I+a)
Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at September 15, 2005 10:14 AM (y1hCN)
4
Here socratees here is your drink of hemloc
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 02:33 PM (vnSBY)
5
Hey cool, I just learned about yet another asshole right-wing blog!
I'm referring to yours, incidentally. You seem like you're kind of slow, so I thought I'd clear up any doubt in your befuddled "brain."
Posted by: edddie at September 15, 2005 03:22 PM (uFFQ0)
6
Wow, I'm really impressed with edddie's spelling ability. He's just another dumn ass Lefty impressed with his own credentials. And it's a good thing he is, because no one else is.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 15, 2005 03:27 PM (q9AWQ)
7
Bill,
The textbook I teach Western Pol. Phil. makes basically the same claim. Of course, the claim So-crats is the father of radicalism has more to do with his epistemology than Bill and Ted.............
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 15, 2005 04:25 PM (JQjhA)
8
The key is simple - volunteers and excellent intensive training. This adds up to professionalism and everything else just falls in place.
Posted by: hondo at September 16, 2005 12:48 AM (4Gtyc)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 13, 2005
Lawlessness in Gaza, Riots in N. Ireland: Bush and FEMA to Blame
(Gaza Strip) Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has promised to put an end to "armed chaos" in the Gaza Strip, a day after the withdrawal of Israeli troops.
"No-one is above the law," Mr Abbas said in a televised speech.
"If these were white people stuck in Gaza," Abbas continued, "I donÂ’t have any [bleep]ing doubt there would have been every single helicopter, every plane, every single means that the U.S. government has to help these people."
Civil Rights groups in Gaza, such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas, have harshly criticized President Bush's FEMA team for their poor handling of the Gaza situation.
Community leader and Hamas spokesperson Mushir al-Masri was pleased at the announced resignation of FEMA chief Michael Brown Monday, but said the move did not go far enough.
"50 years of Zionist occupation and all the President could do was accept Michael Brown's resignation? Where was FEMA when they were needed? Did they send us money? No. Weapons? No. The least Bush could have done was send one of the twins for a martyrdom operation, inshallah."
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
07:22 PM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
Post contains 604 words, total size 4 kb.
1
I propose we send Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to Gaza on the next plane to get their take on the situation.
Meanwhile, back here in the states, I would recommend a committee headed by Marcos "uh, unscrew them," Molitias to see what the dumn asses on the Left propose. Oh, never mind on this one, they have already blamed it on Bush. But, what the hell, since this one is on the taxpayer, "live it up, Marcos" while you can.
Next, I recommend that the great Dr. Rusty Shackleford be allowed to form a committee of two with Angelina Jolie serving in an advisory role.
Whatever Rusty says goes! Got that shitheads on the Left. And leave Jackson and Sharpton in Gaza to fend for themselves. After all, they ARE among friends.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 13, 2005 09:21 PM (q9AWQ)
2
Good idea joe lets send jessie jackasson and al sharkton to iraq to negotiate with the insurgents let these idiots show their worth by doing this
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 09:36 AM (XGDTE)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Pull My Finger
Posted by: Rusty at
03:08 PM
| Comments (7)
| Add Comment
Post contains 6 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: Fersboo at September 13, 2005 03:41 PM (x0fj6)
2
I saw that earlier, I laughed my ASS off.
holy crap, haha
Posted by: Henry at September 13, 2005 07:57 PM (NdKxH)
3
Who is that hooed monster? is it MICHEAL ROCKFELLER?
Posted by: sandpiper at September 13, 2005 08:29 PM (g0rz7)
4
I'll guess Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: A Finn at September 14, 2005 02:43 AM (cWMi4)
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 14, 2005 07:42 AM (VhNDM)
6
Looks like Hanoi Jane to me....
Posted by: Susie at September 14, 2005 01:13 PM (a0oF7)
7
ITS ANDROSS,ITS COBROA COMMANDER,ITS DARTH VADER,ITS THE MOVIE STAR,THE PROFFESOR,MARY ANN,aaww heck its a person in a hood saying PULL MY FINGER
Posted by: sandpiper at September 15, 2005 09:42 AM (XGDTE)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 12, 2005
Staying the Course in Iraq
Dean Esmay has an excellent post on the moral argument for staying the course in Iraq:
With some moral arguments, there really is no middle ground. I'd like to think there is but there isn't. So my suggestion--as "black and white" as it may sound--is simple: take a stand. Do you want to abandon those people in Iraq or do you not? Do we turn them over to the "freedom fighters" who bomb women and children and mosques and cops and elected politicians as well as our soldiers? Or do we protect the victims of those "freedom fighters," recognizing the "freedom fighters" as vicious fascist thugs and theocratic nutjobs, and try to help the real people, the overwhelming majority of the Iraqi people, establish a democratic, human rights respecting, and free nation?
I fully support Dean's argument. The time for debating a war, any war, is before it begins. Once it begins the only debate ought to be how to win it in the quickest manner. That is the duty of a patriot.
Further, I believe the war must be won for pragmatic and Realist (I mean this in the foreign policy school of thought sense) reasons. If we do not set up a government that will be allied with the U.S. in Iraq then we will be sending a signal to jihadi forces that terrorism works. Remember, Osama bin Laden first began to believe that America was weak and could be defeated after our retreat from Somalia.
The Left's freedom fighters who we are fighting in Iraq are intent on setting up a Taliban-like state. If they succeed, then not only has the cause of freedom been set back, but the cause of America as well.
Posted by: Rusty at
05:44 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 295 words, total size 2 kb.
1
"Once it begins the only debate ought to be how to win it in the quickest manner."
By staying or going.
Also, there is a problem with your 'time to talk is over.' We now have more information than before. We now know more about what was known before. So its really a different conversation than before.
Posted by: actus at September 12, 2005 11:34 PM (y/f3P)
2
There will be no ultimate win for us in Iraq, because to win would be to lose. Well, I'll put it a little less cryptically. Were we, rather than the Iraqi forces, to win against the insurgency then Iraq would end up as the same kind of "protectorate" that it was under British rule in the last century. So, in order to establish the legitimacy of something more substancial than an American colony the "freedom fighters" have to defeat the "insurgents." That will establish Iraq as a nation, and just about nothing else will.
And by the time all of this transpires in the way that it ought, the US will be out of the picture almost entirely. It has to be.
Consider that it was the War of 1812, and not the American Revolution, that really established the United States as a nation. And it was during that war, while watching the battle in Baltimore Harbor, that Key wrote
The Star Spangled Banner.
Posted by: Demosophist at September 13, 2005 02:18 AM (QKEx7)
3
"That will establish Iraq as a nation, and just about nothing else will."
Right. They will have purchased their OWN identity. Hence GW's words "When Iraq stands up, we'll stand down."
They will have to finish this war.
Posted by: Oyster at September 13, 2005 05:49 AM (YudAC)
4
Bushraq is a cluster and muddy boots sojias OUT!!!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 13, 2005 08:27 AM (VhNDM)
5
Right. They will have purchased their OWN identity. Hence GW's words "When Iraq stands up, we'll stand down." They will have to finish this war.
Well, that part's tricky. If we leave too late there will be no, or an insufficient, transfer of legitimacy. Remember Pantani's reaction when Lance gave him the victory on
Mont Ventoux. Nations act that way as well. And if we leave too early, of course, the Iraqi "freedom fighters" won't be ready to defeat the "insurgents" and we'll have another failed state on our hands.
So far I haven't seen anyone on the Left or the Right make this argument, because it requires a kind of judgment that neither is very familiar with. But I maintain that Americans will know what to do when the time comes. It's in our genes.
Posted by: Demosophist at September 13, 2005 09:36 AM (hoJy0)
6
Is Dean the only sane Liberal left?
Posted by: Howie at September 13, 2005 11:29 AM (D3+20)
7
Howard Dean? Huh? You're kidding, right? The only sane democrat that comes to mind for me is Zell Miller.
Posted by: Oyster at September 13, 2005 04:16 PM (fl6E1)
8
No I meant Dean Esmay. He says he is liberal I just assumed he was a Democrat. I meant liberal as in sane liberal. you know about assume it makes an ass of U and me.
http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/000052.html
Posted by: Howie at September 13, 2005 04:43 PM (D3+20)
9
But Howie Dean might be fun to get really drunk with at least he has personality. yeeeeaaaahhhh.
Posted by: Howie at September 13, 2005 05:11 PM (D3+20)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
It's Official: Nuking Terrorists Now on Table

The U.S. government has revealed for the first time that a pre-emptive nuclear strike could be used against terrorists who threatened America with weapons of mass destruction. The discussion paper was accidentally posted at a Pentagon Website over the weekend, but has since been removed.
The complete .pdf file can be downloaded here.
Washington Times:
A Pentagon planning document being updated to reflect the doctrine of pre-emption declared by President Bush in 2002 envisions the use of nuclear weapons to deter terrorists from using weapons of mass destruction against the United States or its allies.
Highlights from the document:
International reaction toward the country or nonstate entity that first employs weapons of mass destruction (WMD) is an important political consideration....Nevertheless, while the belligerent that initiates nuclear warfare may find itself the target of world condemnation, no customary or conventional international law prohibits nations from employing nuclear weapons in armed conflict.
In other words, nothing prohibits the US from initiating a first strike nuclear attack.
The document uses this figure to show the mix of nuclear and non-nuclear weapons that could be used in a premptive strike.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
12:58 PM
| Comments (27)
| Add Comment
Post contains 838 words, total size 7 kb.
1
"Oh Sayeed! Look! The sky is so bright tonight. Ohhh shabash what a sight!....oh....my skin is itchy....and burning.... Sayeed what is that smell....why are your robes on fire?"
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 12, 2005 01:27 PM (5ceWd)
2
Let's see, we should start with Damascus, Riyad, Teheran, Baghdad, and Islamabad, just to get their attention, then move on to second-tier cities and work our way down. Oh, and Detroit, can't forget that one!
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 12, 2005 02:13 PM (0yYS2)
3
The document decribes Iran and North Korea to the letter if read correctly.
They left quite a bit open for individual interpretation.
Plus, it's always been the US's prerogative to bust a cap in their enemy's ass without a vote or even the general consensus of the American public.
I personally think it's beautiful. Kind of brings a tear to my eye.
Been nice knowing ya fellas!
Posted by: elliott at September 12, 2005 02:15 PM (XlQVK)
4
I am assuming the mullahs in Iran got their copy by FedEx.
Posted by: From the Swamp at September 12, 2005 02:20 PM (7evkT)
5
HA! About time - like we hadn't thought that already.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 12, 2005 02:52 PM (jHRvj)
6
Actually I got a hold of this document two days ago, and I would have blogged it, but I fell asleep reading it! I don't know how you all stayed awake to read the whole thing. Maybe you didn't. Anyway, the response from al-Qaeda seems to be to
threaten a chemical attack. They're definitely testing U.S. resolve now.
Posted by: IO ERROR at September 12, 2005 02:54 PM (48Hov)
7
This is not anything new. While this may be the first time the actual discussion paper has been seen, it has always been the discreet policy of the US that any means necessary will be used to stop a WMD attack, or to respond to such an attack.
Of course, the shitheads on the left will try to spin this as some new dangerous policy that has the World on the brink of nuclear war. Their allies in the MSM will aid the lefties by giving them publicity.
THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW! The greatest danger to world peace and civiliztion as we know it is Islam. If you are a moderate Muslim now is the time for you to speak up, as it soon will be too late.
Islam has to be remade, or it will surely take all of us back into the dark ages. The amount of suffering and death and disease is too staggering to comtemplate. The fate of mankind hangs in the balance.
I mean no hate or disrespect, but you Muslims need to look inward and see if this is what you want. A world without any modern conveniences, medicines, air travel, electricity, automobiles, computers, and just about everything else you can think of. The city of Rome was not destroyed by barbarians until the aquaducts that brought water into Rome was destroyed. No one knew how to rebuild them, and the population melted away from 1.5 million to about 10 thousand.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 02:56 PM (q9AWQ)
8
IO, Rusty thinks this kind of stuff is sexy. Thankfully. Nukes should be on the table, given the fact that these folks - Islamofascists - haven't backed off in rhetoric one iota since we returned the favor of declaring war. I'm glad the powers-that-be have let their "slip" show.
Having nukes on the table should and hopefully will make the necessity to use them a bit more remote, which is a good thing. Since people on the left want to "retro"-fit this war, maybe it's time we agree. Let's just aim for WWII rather than Vietnam.
Posted by: tee bee at September 12, 2005 03:51 PM (q1JHF)
9
Mark my words:
This will be the decision that eventually starts WWIII.
The first ever serious attempt to justify using weapons of mass destruction as an instant retaliation, can't be a good thing for anyone, except a trivial joy for bitter people suffering from a deadly illness. If a WMD is used, it is suddenly ok for everyone to use two or three. You saw what happened with nuclear testing. Everyone figured 'Hell, if they got one we need to get one too and let 'em know we got it.' and now even countries with people who seriously believe in reincarnation got them.
Domino-effect... Don't you go knocking down the first block.
Posted by: A Finn at September 12, 2005 04:01 PM (eFE81)
10
Hey Finn,
This might be a surprise, but we've always had a 1st strike policy with the Soviets, even though their official policy was that they would never conduct a 1st strike on us. Even though we maintained a 1st strike policy thoughout the cold war, we never did.
The point is that this really isn't anything new. Pre-emptive is just another catch phrase for 1st strike. The only real difference is that in the past, we have targeted nations, now we are willing to target groups. However I severely question any politicians willingness to ok the use of Nukes. I don't think that even GW has balls that are bigger than Harry Trumans.
Posted by: Sgt Beavis at September 12, 2005 04:10 PM (XCqS+)
11
Sgt Beavis is dead on. The idea behind having a pre-emptive first strike policy is that this will deter the actual use of those weapons.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 12, 2005 04:29 PM (JQjhA)
12
Mr. A Finn,
Can't you read? This is not anything new. You are sounding like one of the dumn asses from the Left. This has always been the policy of the US.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 04:29 PM (q9AWQ)
13
And by the way, Mr. A Finn, World War III was started on September 11, 2001. By the very people you seem to want to protect.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 04:33 PM (q9AWQ)
14
I think Finn's argument is wrong, but within the bounds of discourse. His is a strategic argument, that the strategy is ill suited to the ends of winning. He might be wrong, but he's not trying to protect our enemies.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 12, 2005 05:55 PM (JQjhA)
15
A nazi ally in the Second World War, a Soviet patsy ever since... and a Finn thinks he has the right to criticize.
Posted by: DaveP. at September 12, 2005 06:21 PM (6iy97)
16
The First Strike policy is nothing new. The fact is, if we had to use nukes (first strike or not) we would use them. I would say this was slipped out as a warning to states like Iran and North Korea of the consequinces of giving Nuclear, Biological, Chemical or Radiological weapons to groups like Al Queda.
Personally I am glad this was slipped out. With North Korea and Iran resuming their nuclear activities and the obvious fact that AL Queda would love to get its hands on WMDs. Overwhelming force is the only thing that the Koranimals understand.
Posted by: Alex at September 12, 2005 06:54 PM (7wMwj)
17
I wonder if it really "slipped out"? It seems to me kinda like a gunfighter casually pulling his coat back to show his Colt Peacemaker.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 12, 2005 07:13 PM (0yYS2)
18
Jesusland, you are wrong
World War III was declared the day those crazy Iranians stormed the embassy and the hostage crisis began...
Posted by: Henry at September 12, 2005 07:47 PM (NdKxH)
19
If they decide to huke the terrorists could we get SEAN PENN to do the DR STRANGELOVE rotine? just like what SLIM PICKEN DID ride it al the way down you greenhorn BLA-WHOOM
Posted by: sandpiper at September 12, 2005 08:15 PM (AFJdY)
20
Last words of the Arab Man On The Street:
"
ABDUL WHAT'S THAT FLA -- ............"
Posted by: Macker at September 12, 2005 09:33 PM (2GH66)
21
The first ever serious attempt to actually
justify using WMDs... No-one justified anything during the Cold War, that was an inevitable 'shit happens' situation of 'if they might, we will, screw the consequences'.
A justification makes it ok to use 'em, so there's nothing but the (0,1*lightspeed/lenght of electric wire between launch codes and missiles) slowing down using it. In the Cold War it was at least a moral issue, with the hippies and uncertainty and everything.
Posted by: A Finn at September 13, 2005 04:21 AM (cWMi4)
22
Oh yeah, and DaveP., make two picks:
1.
a) An ally all the way from pre-Christian times all the way to this day, with only a few minor clashes which can be blamed on another country
b) An enemy all the way from pre-Christian times, 2-10 wars with it every century, one of those just a year ago, in absolute chaos and with a piece of paper that justifies taking you over
2.
a) A previously isolated country that has suddenly taken interrest in world politics after destroying the ally from pre-Christian times twice. Keeps shoving itself in your face, practically begging for recognition and attention, makes demands, tries to brainwash your people with a media overflow, gets in a coalition to stop you from getting into international organisations, openly states that your continent will be a nuke landing site once a war starts.
b) A previously hostile country now clearly learnt it's lesson, not making any demands after the big war is over, offers shelter from the other one in exchange for immunity in world politics. Doesn't try to make you do anything, doesn't meddle in internal affairs, doesn't even mind the fact that their leader party is illegal in your country and that your country makes twice more money from the trade between countries, as long you just act as a negotiator between your continent and them.
Posted by: A Finn at September 13, 2005 04:40 AM (cWMi4)
23
The mind boggles! Rusty, are you really a professor or just a propaganda merchant for the more hawkish members of the Republican Party. We need to be told!
Posted by: conor at September 13, 2005 06:55 AM (4PPsx)
24
Screw nucular bushipig plans
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at September 13, 2005 08:29 AM (VhNDM)
25
DSM, don't think you should be the one to say that, since those things might be dropping right next door to your house, if you're in Korea like someone said you are.
Posted by: A Finn at September 13, 2005 01:35 PM (lGolT)
26
Seriously, who thinks the US would ever
nuke anyone ever again? Nuking isn't exactly
a precise thing.... you can't take out a warehouse
without taking out the city that contains it
along with all the innocent people living
in that city. No one here is crazy enough
to do that, except maybe me, which is why
I don't run for president.

Hell, to be honest, I miss the days when we
used to level cities. It's a hell of a lot
easier to fight house to house when the highest
rooftop is six inches off the ground. I just don't
think we'd do that again.
Posted by: Slice at September 13, 2005 03:00 PM (ZSDaZ)
27
If the majority of the people gets absolutely furious about something, then using nukes becomes a likely option, but that would take a foreign invasion or a series of smaller things like extreme weather combined with terrorist attack and death of government members, with others gloating about all of 'em. So it will take a while unless someone of Arab lineage shoots Bush in New Orleans.
Posted by: A Finn at September 14, 2005 02:35 AM (cWMi4)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 08, 2005
Accountability Now!
I blame the President of the United States for everything. I mean, does the buck stop at his desk or not?
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
03:10 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 152 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: Carlos at September 08, 2005 03:16 PM (8e/V4)
2
He is also to blame for my expanding beer gut. His mishandling of the hurricane in addition to his extended summer vacation has caused me so much stress that I've had to drink more pints of Guinness than usual. Plus I've been too lazy to exercise, which is also partially Shrubya's fault.
Posted by: Preston Taylor Holmes at September 08, 2005 03:24 PM (5OTDA)
3
The really funny thing is the left actually believes this approach resonates with the majority of the American people. Thats how insular (and ineffective) they have become. They still can't fathom why the overwhelming majority of the voting military and veterans community rejected "a war hero".
Posted by: hondo at September 08, 2005 03:55 PM (4Gtyc)
4
Amen Hondo. What the heck happened to the Dems anyway? They had a few good men at one time. Now they just get worse every cycle. I think it's the fault of lazy moderates who just don't care leaving them (and somtimes both sides) to pander to the extremes for votes becuase all the people who have any sense are so turned off and cynical they don't even care anymore. I got news for those people. Ignoring it won't make it any better. get off yer arse.
I blame bush for sending me this cold to stop me from working so I cannot donate to help poor storm ravaged poeple. yes he and Chinees ducks pigs and chickens snuck in my house and sneezed on my doorknob.
Posted by: Howie at September 08, 2005 04:06 PM (D3+20)
5
You guys want to blame Bush for something?
Go here
Good for 50 points.
Posted by: Oyster at September 08, 2005 04:17 PM (fl6E1)
6
My wife has been sort of bitchy here lately. Damn W, damn him to hell. Oh, and the JOOOOOOOooooooooz!
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 08, 2005 04:48 PM (0yYS2)
7
I blame Bush for my being unable to score with this Hot Nun down the street from my methadone clinic!! Freakin Bush Hitler.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 09, 2005 07:52 AM (5ceWd)
8
GAAAHD DAAMMMAT! I just dropped my nuts in the toilet! FREAKIN BUSH!
Posted by: Ob Snooks at September 09, 2005 08:00 AM (5ceWd)
9
These dumb leftists beleive everything they read in the New York Times and what other rags they read
Posted by: sandpiper at September 10, 2005 07:18 PM (JyNSh)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
September 06, 2005
Conspiracy Theory at AP: U.S. Out to Kill Journalists in Iraq
Late last month a Reuters sound technician was shot and killed by a U.S. sniper.
We reported that incident here, including an account from an eye witness who claimed the Reuters crew drove into the middle of a firefight and the camera was mistaken for an RPG. At the time, we argued that any one found filming immediately after an terror attack should be a fair target within the rules of engagement since terror organizations such as Ansar al-Sunnah and al Qaeda in Iraq routinely film their exploits.
On Sep. 1 the military cleared the soldiers involved, essentially saying the news crew was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even though this story is at least five days old, the Associated Press decided to release a 'news' story about it today. The piece essentially rejects the U.S. military version of events, and then recounts other stories from Iraq in which journalists were accidentally killed. Thus, the picture that is painted is one of the U.S. intentionally targetting journalists.
The Associated Press could save themselves a lot of time and money by just running al Jazeera stories and al Qaeda press releases verbatim.
Posted by: Rusty at
01:24 PM
| Comments (10)
| Add Comment
Post contains 216 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Bunch of dirty journalists wonder why the GIs dont trust the low life scum just read the usial rags or listen to the talking heads and you,ll know why
Posted by: sandpiper at September 06, 2005 01:52 PM (rAMmL)
2
Killing journalists makes no sense whatsever,serves no purpose and is a waste of ammunition. Since we are going to be accused of it anyway why bother providing services, shelter, and assistance to them. Let them go off on their own and survive on their own. Their reports and communications can be an excellent source of intel especially the raw footage they upload via satellite (HEAR THAT INSURGENTS). They are fundementally mercenary and unscruplious and will trade information for access and stories to out do each other. (INSURGENTS LISTEN UP). Problem is their not actually in the field, they're farming that out to locals (good money) and underlings (lots of promises). The Names are all back in the hotels in Bagdad or hanging out in the Green Zone.
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 01:57 PM (4Gtyc)
3
Things Missing Or in Short Supply From Iraq/Afghanistan Newscoverage - interviews with soldiers, units, day to day stuff, living conditions etc - even combat footage is meager when you thing about it. They have access including embeds etc. Yet, can anyone remember a conflict with so little "coverage" of the bread & butter meat & potatoes of a war zone? Yes! "little coverage"! Except of course the politizing, potificating, and opinionated analysis virtually all originating from Bagdad.
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 02:13 PM (4Gtyc)
4
The AP thinks they're more "trustworthy" and will be taken more seriously than al-Jazeera. Problem is too many people think they are.
Posted by: Oyster at September 06, 2005 02:27 PM (fl6E1)
5
I actually think we should embedd journalists, which is what you're describing Hondo. It's all the non-embeds that seem to be the biggest problem.
Posted by: Rusty at September 06, 2005 03:13 PM (JQjhA)
6
At least the embeds have a harder time collaborating with the enemy to get "never before seen footage". I wonder too about how many reporters have been asked to come and film the opening of a school, hospital or newly running electric plant and turned it down because it didn't bleed.
Posted by: Oyster at September 06, 2005 03:40 PM (fl6E1)
7
You all miss the point - the coverage overall is actually miniscule. The journalists are frightened by the insurgents and Islamic fanatics. This is why they stay in Bagdad and farm out their work to locals (who need the work and money) and underlings (who want a career). They are not afraid of us. We are the Safe target - if they piss off the others they run the risk of having bullseyes on their backs. I say (soldiers in the field) embrace them (journalists), salute them, give them souveniors likes Captain's bars to pin on their hats, point them out and applaud them. I'm a nice guy.
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 03:57 PM (4Gtyc)
8
It's miniscule because they're getting most of their information second hand and from some with "less than desirable" motives.
Posted by: Oyster at September 07, 2005 05:34 AM (YudAC)
9
We dont kill journalsist no matter how rotten and left-wing they are we just call them liars
Posted by: sandpiper at September 07, 2005 01:59 PM (g1M1/)
10
OK sandpiper - your right. I realize what I was implying simply sets them up for someone else to kill - and that is still wrong. Sorry.
Posted by: hondo at September 07, 2005 03:37 PM (4Gtyc)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Terrorism in Iraq Update: Where is NY Times?
After reading a series of press releases from
Centcom about sucesses in Iraq, I decided to do a New York Times search of the past seven days, to see if the nation's leading paper of record was helping to disseminate the good news. Here are the results:
Sept. 2: Seven terrorists killed in the al-Rashid district of Baghdad

Sept. 2: Two IED makers captured near Abu Ghraib on tips from locals.
Two NY Times stories that mention Abu Ghraib, both about abuse at the prison.
Sept. 2: 12 terrorists captured with weapons cache East of Al-Amiriyah.

Sept. 3: Ambush foiled near Ad Duluiyah, 8 terrorists captured.

Sept. 5: 11 terrorists killed in after mortar attack on U.S. base near Balad, six more captured.
Here: 24th paragraph down, no mention of terrorists captured, or of why house was bombed.
Sept. 5: 11 suspected terrorists detained in Mosul.
Two hits, neither about this story or any other U.S. success.
Remember when being neutral meant being non-partisan and not indifferent to whether or not the U.S. loses its wars? There is no such thing as a Republican or Democrat war. The nation is at war. U.S. troops are fighting. Either the MSM will help win it or help lose it. Unfortunately, it seems lthat the NY Times has chosen the latter course.
Posted by: Rusty at
10:04 AM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
Post contains 235 words, total size 2 kb.
1
From what I've seen basically every major media outlet has chosen to help us lose. Well, we won't lose, but they're helping to drag the whole thing on.
They should be running pro-american propoganda for the U.S. government all the time. The nation as a whole isn't in the right mindset to win this war. The media could change that but won't.
Posted by: tyler at September 06, 2005 01:23 PM (Y9Lwb)
2
Ah, Tyler, you are a good Paduan!
Posted by: Rusty at September 06, 2005 03:13 PM (JQjhA)
3
Ah, Rusty, I would hardly say that the
New York Times... um, Slimes is "indifferent" as to whether or not the US loses its wars. I suspect the truth is more that they're
enthusiastic when the US loses its wars.
But, that's just me...
Keep up the excellent blogging!
-- R'cat
CatHouse Chat
Posted by: Romeocat at September 06, 2005 03:23 PM (dIews)
4
There may be two reasons for The New York Times's poor record of reporting good news in Iraq. The paper is really The New Liberal Times. Fortunately, we have an Australian, Art Chrenkoff, to act as counterbalance to the entire U.S. media.
Secondly, news doesn't sell. Bad news sells. If two newspapers sat on the news stand, side by side, with one showing a picture of a terrorist attack in Baghdad, and one showing Najaf school children happily accepting pens and paper from U.S. soldiers, the former would get purchased 10x more often than the latter.
It's sad, but that's how we Shaved Apes are.
Posted by: Don Long at September 06, 2005 03:23 PM (MKHkQ)
5
I wanted to thank the Jawa Report for posting such an interesting investigation on the main stream media. There are a lot of stories that are going on in theater that are not being put out. CENTCOM.mil has a variety of stories, including a link to what extremists are saying, please link to:
http://www.centcom.mil/extremistssay.asp.
There are many stories that can be linked to. I would ask Jawa to post a permanent link to centcom on his links page so that these stories can be read. Once again, thanks for your time and effort.
Posted by: US Central Command at September 06, 2005 07:47 PM (NgLBn)
6
The New York Times is look for more muck to rake over this hurricane karina stuff
Posted by: sandpiper at September 07, 2005 10:18 PM (ciw10)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Hurricane Porn and Rome
John from Wuzzadem has the latest hurricane related pornography (I assure you, Safe for Work). Hilarity ensues.
On a more serious note, the media are treating New Orleans like Rome's Colliseum. There is a race to see who can find the most tragic stories, and then find some one to blame. A certain bloodlust underlies their coverage. What is even sadder is that we, the American people, love this coverage.
Posted by: Rusty at
08:27 AM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
Post contains 78 words, total size 1 kb.
1
So who could ever trust these reptiles anyway you cant ever trust these liberal left-wing journalists
Posted by: sandpiper at September 06, 2005 09:03 AM (O2c+K)
2
Last night I saw Jessie Jackson on Lew Dobbs show. JJ could not find enough blame to shovel on the feds and President Bush. However, Dobbs was getting a little red in the face trying to Get double J to say anything critical about the State and Local mismanagement that occurred before and after the storm. It was a pathetic political hack job rather than a real appeal for relief for the people he cares so much about. IÂ’ll give some of my remaining money to Catholic Charities JJ, can keep trying to turn human tragedy into an attempt to keep himself relevant. (Do even Blacks consider him a spokesman anymore, or is he just a minority Ramsey Clark)? JacksonÂ’s self promotion was so transparent and partisan I canÂ’t imagine even the most liberal democrats are not embarrassed by him.
The stuff from Wauzzadem was hilarious and..The stuff on Rivera....I mean Rivers was not to far off what I actually saw on OÂ’rilley the other night. I think he did really say bro a couple of times.
Posted by: Brad at September 06, 2005 09:08 AM (6mUkl)
3
Hey Doc wake up! They found out who to blame 8 days ago. It is all the fault of Republicans. Reagan and Bush in particular. With a second villian being the Ugly, Racist American culture. There is (and has been) no looking for who to blame. Theat was determined 8/30/05. America is still a ugly culture as of 9/6/05.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at September 06, 2005 11:31 AM (03F0I)
4
That was so absolutely close to the naked truth it was scarey!
Posted by: Oyster at September 06, 2005 11:44 AM (fl6E1)
5
Jessie Jackasson what with this Nit Wit anyway? he should get off his soap box before he falls on his fool head
Posted by: sandpiper at September 06, 2005 01:59 PM (rAMmL)
6
Yes Dr Rusty! Truly creative and brilliant! A keeper!
Posted by: hondo at September 06, 2005 07:32 PM (4Gtyc)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 26, 2005
It's Time to Take al Sadr Out
Too often our University trained military officers and State Department employees overlook the lessons of WWII and buy into the myth of diplomacy. By conceding ground to Muqtada al Sadr in an effort to have him 'buy in' to the process of creating a nation, we have let a dangerous man create a radical Islamist fiefdom. From
NRO:
Not long after, Sadr was implicated in a massacre in the gypsy village of Qawliya. His Mahdi army tried to abduct a woman accused of prostitution in order to try her in SadrÂ’s kangaroo religious court. When the men of the town resisted, 20 were killed and the town nearly leveled with machine guns, mortars, and RPGs, after which the survivors were beaten and tortured.
Sadr’s victims are not only his fellow Iraqis. The Mahdi army often attacks Coalition forces, on one occasion turning a Sadr City marketplace into a “300-meter-long-kill-zone” in a battle that claimed the life of Sgt. Yihjyh (Eddie) Chen. Many more Americans have died fighting his goons in Najaf and Karbala.
Sadr is accused of being a pawn of TehranÂ’s mullahs as well, helping them subvert the progress of Iraqi democracy. If military action is taken against IranÂ’s nuclear weapons program, SadrÂ’s Al-Mahdi militia could counterattack within Iraq.
One can only imagine how the restive Sunnis in central Iraq fear the prospect of SadrÂ’s growing influence. Why would they support a new Iraqi government that, favoring the Shiite majority as it must, might eventually make Sadr their de facto ruler?
Read it all. This Clinton W. Taylor dude is one sharp playah. It's surprising to learn he got through his grad school classes with an attitude like that. He must read the Jawa.
Posted by: Rusty at
03:38 PM
| Comments (10)
| Add Comment
Post contains 297 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Sadr is a useful tool to show the Sunnis that we aren't the enemy. Once we have the Sunnis back on the reservation, then it'll be time to go after Sadr. One fight at a time is the smart way to do it, enlisting allies from former enemies.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 26, 2005 04:07 PM (0yYS2)
2
No. He filled his blue books with things he knew were wrong and did his dissertation on a plain vanilla topic. Bet me.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at August 26, 2005 06:20 PM (03F0I)
3
I read a report recently that Sadr's goons are mixing it up with SCIRI. Looks to me like Tubby McFatwah has had a falling out with with his supporters in Iran, or possibly there's a power-struggle in Iran for control over their attempts to destabilize Iraq.
Posted by: Cybrludite at August 26, 2005 08:41 PM (FRvw6)
4
Rod, WTF? Over. Did you post that to the wrong topic or did it just go over my head?
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 26, 2005 11:03 PM (0yYS2)
5
No - the Dr. said he wondered how he got through grad school. I am explaining to Rusty. As if he did not know already.
Rusty said,"Posted by Dr. Rusty Shackleford at 03:50 PM | Comments (9) | SandcrawlerTracks (0) | This Clinton W. Taylor dude is one sharp playah. It's surprising to learn he got through his grad school classes with an attitude like that."
I am explaining how he gamed grad school.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at August 27, 2005 08:39 AM (03F0I)
6
Rod's right. It's the only way he could have kept from being failed given the political climate in our "institutes of higher learning".
Posted by: Oyster at August 27, 2005 08:43 AM (YudAC)
7
Dr. Shackleford, Sadr will not be Sistani's replacement. He doesn't have the genetics, and besides, he is an Iranian sock puppet.
We tried to have him arrested for the machete murder of a competing cleric just after Gulf II, but couldn't do it. And we don't do assassinations.
;-)
Posted by: matoko kusanagi at August 27, 2005 11:50 AM (ha08A)
8
Take him out? Dr. Rusty, you've been watching 700 Club again ... besides the fact that al-Sadr is a nasty little bugger, he happens to be the nasty little bugger on the side of OUR nasty little bugger, Ahmad "You tell me, I'll tell the Ayatollah" Chalabi. Their alliance is just ONE of the U.S. military's big problems in Iraq (the others being the insurgency, the sunnis, the shiites, the Iranians, the oil, the kurdish separatists, the oil THEY've got, the former baathists, the foreign fighters, the Iraqi population and Donald Rumsfeld) ... al-Sadr and Chalabi try to lend each other legitimacy, despite the fact that supposedly, the REAL power in Iraq, Iranian ulta-mullah Sistani, supposedly can't stand either man.
So the question is, if we "take out al-Sadr" what will that really buy us? the answer, to quote Jeb Bush during his failed 1994 gubernatorial campaign, "probably nothing."
Then again, I may not be up on who our scurilous allies are in Iraq these days, since I try to avoid the Neocon drivel on NRO and the Weekly Standard unless I absolutely have to... (or ate too many cheeseburgers over the weekend and am looking to make myself throw up...) /note to any of my lefty friends who happen to be reading Jawa, I was just kidding on that last one. please don't protest outside my house.../
Posted by: JReid at August 27, 2005 03:38 PM (X4Img)
9
maybe he wants to "take him out" on a date. Rusty might think Sadr has "pretty lips".
Posted by: Mr. K at August 27, 2005 06:47 PM (aFc8I)
10
By your implication, Rod, Rusty did exactly the same thing in grad school.
JReid, I was still kind of on the fence about Chalabi --I know smart people who are for him and against him--but that was before he took up for Sadr. I think AC's worn out his welcome.
Posted by: See-Dubya at August 27, 2005 07:27 PM (ttYIJ)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 25, 2005
Gold Star Mothers For Cowardice
Heh. My son went to Iraq to die for the Neocon-Zionist-Halliburton Conspiracy and all I got was this lousy shirt.
Posted by: Rusty at
10:23 AM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 30 words, total size 1 kb.
Hippies Lied, Millions Died
Confederate Yankee has an interesting analysis where he comes up with a ratio of the number of people liberated divided by the number of American soldiers killed in various U.S. wars. America's wars, though, are not fought to liberate other peoples--it is just a side-effect that we leave freedom in our wake--our wars are fought to protect our national security. That is the ultimate measure I am interested in.
Posted by: Rusty at
10:13 AM
| Comments (3)
| Add Comment
Post contains 77 words, total size 1 kb.
1
What you continuously fail to note is that the definition of American national security is up for grabs, and so far as most of America is concerned
your definition is just plain wrong.
All morality aside, your position has made America less safe.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at August 25, 2005 05:11 PM (BueBw)
2
hey Professor Von loser...go fuck youreself
Posted by: THANOS35 at August 25, 2005 11:47 PM (hcN1S)
3
Hey Professor,
I guess that protecting our national security is code for giving our military secrets to the Chinese communists then? Is that your definition? You must be so smart you can't even park your own hybrid vehicle on campus, huh?
Posted by: Arthur Puty at August 28, 2005 11:00 PM (2Xkem)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 23, 2005
Pat Robertson is Right, Let's Kill Hugo Chavez
When I heard that
Pat Robertson said that maybe we might want to assassinate Hugo Chavez, my first reaction was,
Wow, did he say that out loud? You see, I think Pat Robertson is right, we really ought to assassinate Hugo Chavez. He said what a lot of us think all the time.
What makes Robertsons statememt foolish is not that it's a bad idea, but that Pat Robertson is a public figure. Since I don't really qualify as a public figure, I'll go ahead and second Robertsons motion. Hugo Chavez must die. While we're at it, I hope the CIA saves a bullet for Fidel Castro. No, I don't think the CIA will actually kill the pair, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
Why is political assassination such a bad idea? Only those who view the world from an international law paradigm could make such a case. Political assassinations, it is argued, destabilize the international legal system. Besides, they say, if you begin to justify the political assassination of that two-bit dictator, what is to stop our enemies from justifying assassinating our President?
Good point. But
a) There is no such thing as an international legal system. International law is a fiction slightly less believable than the notion that Sasqatch communicates with a woman in a double-wide trailor on the edges of Boggy Creek, LA. Where there is no force there is no law. When the U.N. can begin to enforce its will, come back and then we'll talk. Just because you wish there was such a thing as international law does not make it so.
b) If you believe all nations are essentially equal, then you and I have a major disagreement. What is good for the goose is not good for the gander. What is the difference, for instance, between the U.S. having a nuclear warhead and Iran? If you cannot see the difference between the U.S. and Iran than you are an idiot. Just because many in the world are blind to these differences, does not make the differences any less real.
This may sound simplistic, but we are the good guys and they are the bad guys. I want the good guys to prevail.
All nations are not equal and neither are their leaders. If you wish to put your faith in an international system which equivocates between the King of Denmark and the King of Saudi Arabia, be my guest. I don't buy it.
c) I am an American. Ultimately, what is good for America's national interest is the highest moral metric that I am interested in. This may not be a popular position to hold these days, but it is one that I believe in wholeheartedly. This does not mean that I wish national interest to trump moral concerns whenever the two are at odds, but some times what is in our interests must trump what is good. If you wish our leaders to always do the moral thing rather than the right thing, I suggest electing a slate of Buddhist monks to Congress.
Fortunately, I believe that what is usually in America's national interests is also what is usually moral. The spread of democracy, captalism, and liberalism are both moral and in our national interest.
I certainly don't wish to set aside America's national interests for the sake of some false sense of morality which rests upon the baseless equivocation the U.N. makes between nations and their leaders. If the U.S. could have taken out Saddam Hussein with a single bullet, breaking international law in the process, I would lose no sleep.
In the shootout at the O.K. Corral, which is the international stage, I, for one, root for Wyatt Earp to win. I really could care less that the Clantons and McLaurys were deputized: they were the bad guys. When the law begins to equivocate between the good and the bad, then that law has no legitimacy in my eyes.
So, if any policy makers are reading this post, and I doubt if they are, then do us all a favor and take out a few of our enemies. Only, if you do it right, make sure that it looks like another one of our enemies did it. If there's anything The Godfather taught me about life, it is that it is always a good thing to make one enemy look bad while taking out another one.
Oh, but keep your traps shut. Thinking, planning, and executing the political assassinations of America's enemies is not necessarily bad. Talking about it, though, is.
UPDATE: Jeff from The Shape of Days agrees. Check out his post in which he recounts the crimes of Hugo Chavez. Even though Jeff makes the claim to fame that he was first since he wrote his post eight ago, I'm going to have to remind you that my server was down. I thought this post up nine hours ago. I swear. No I can't prove it.......
UPDATE II: Brian B. makes an excellent point here.
Posted by: Rusty at
06:58 PM
| Comments (34)
| Add Comment
Post contains 855 words, total size 5 kb.
1
I'm sure they've got the "keeping your traps shut" part worked out already.
And you can never be quite sure who's reading, unless you're paying close attention. Someone in the DOJ drops in and reads my blog from time to time, I've learned from the server logs. Someone in the NSA dropped by once. I also have regular readers all over the armed forces, including in the Pentagon.
You just never know, when you put your words out on the net, who's going to run across them.
Posted by: IO ERROR at August 23, 2005 07:25 PM (HaVXj)
2
Good. Follow my recommendations and then find some sort of plausible deniability.
Posted by: Rusty at August 23, 2005 07:37 PM (JQjhA)
3
This may sound simplistic, but we are the good guys and they are the bad guys. I want the good guys to prevail.
This instantly shuts the moral equivocators up. Their jaw drops and they don't even know what to say. They actually think everybody believes we should treat America and Iran the same and that we should be "consistent". Morons.
Yes you assholes, America and Israel can have nukes-- Iran can't. End of discussion.
Posted by: Carlos at August 23, 2005 08:22 PM (8e/V4)
4
Good to see you are back up and running.
Posted by: Jay at August 24, 2005 01:27 PM (2FcUc)
5
Some people just need killin.
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2005 01:29 PM (sknEY)
6
Carlos, sometimes you just make me feel redundant.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 24, 2005 01:30 PM (0yYS2)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 24, 2005 01:40 PM (0yYS2)
8
While I have no problem with seeing Hugo leave office in a pine box, I'm not convinced it's somehting the government could do without severe domestic repercussions, given the current political climate.
Having said that, I wish the people, including my fellow conservative bloggers, who are screaming about "Religious Intolerance" just because this came out of Robertson's mouth would just shut up. Robertson wears two hats, one as a religious figure and one as a political pundit. You'd do well to pay attention to which one's on his head when he's talking.
Furthermore, there's a world of difference between espousing the view that the assassination of a brutal dictator is in the strategic best interest of the United States, and calling for Jihad against all unbelievers. Hyperventillating about "Fatwahs" just make you sound like a n overreacting schoolgirl.
Posted by: Brian B at August 24, 2005 02:12 PM (CouWh)
9
Rusty, for some reason, with regard to Pat Robertson, I can't help but remember your recent comment that the right has its crazies under control.
Regarding the substance of your post:
a) There
is such a thing as international law, it just only applies when the U.S. desides it should, which means it is more show than substance. Exactly the recipe for draining American moral authority (soft power) around the world. International law
could exist in a real way if the leading superpower in world history got behind it by supporting the UN (similarly to the way the states legitimized a central power by supporting the Constitution - the prominent states were crucial in gaining legitimacy), joining the International Criminal Court, and lending objective support to the Declaration of Human rights and other established international codes.
This is the project we should be involved in.
b) You're suggesting that the U.S. be allowed to employ any means, including the use of nuclear weapons and assassination, to enforce its will. This is precisely the sort of arrogance that has spawned radical Islamic terrorism. And, it is precisely the course of action that Osama bin Laden would love for us to (continue to) take.
c) The problem is, your do not leave any room for the idea that your definition of the American national interest
might be profoundly wrong. I would
think that the history of how radical Islam rose in the first place would suggest that military options do far more short term and long term harm than good. It also suggests that you think that American institutions
always justify an anything goes approach (since it makes us the good guys), which is extremely dangerous.
You are simplifying the way the world works to the extreme and your Saddam assassination suggestion is really quite telling; the result of such an act would have resulted in either a) another strong man similar to Saddam taking power, or b) a civil war, not unlike what we see right now happening in Iraq (capturing Saddam has not lessened this in the least).
Your Godfather reference is far more appropriate. As long as we can all see very clearly that your aspirations for American foreign policy amount to little more than thuggery, then we can dispense with all the rhetoric about bringing freedom and democracy to the rest of the world.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at August 24, 2005 02:22 PM (BueBw)
10
Oh, come now. Without leaders like Chavez, Castro, Jong Il, and the Ayatollah, life would be very boring for neocons.
Posted by: Venom at August 24, 2005 02:24 PM (dbxVM)
11
lol...and now Robertson's apologizing for his remark.
Posted by: Venom at August 24, 2005 03:00 PM (dbxVM)
12
Is it a crime to threaten a foreign nation? For example, if someone went to the Chinese embassy website and threatened a Chinese interest would that be a crime under American law?
Posted by: Hedgy at August 24, 2005 03:20 PM (A8rF5)
13
Peter,
Sorry, but I'm a realist at heart. I'm not sure you know the history of radical Islam, which has been around since, er, Muhammed's day. We did nothing to cause it, it has always been there.
Posted by: Rusty at August 24, 2005 03:59 PM (JQjhA)
14
I'm afraid I'm with Feisty Republican Whore on this one. (See the post that got her fatwa'd.) Even if we were to bump off Chavez, that would probably just hand the reins of power over to one of his lackeys, and who's to say he won't turn out just as bad, or worse, than Hugo himself?
No, we really would need a full-scale invasion to get rid of him and the mess he's made of Venezuela. Trouble is, of course, the U.S. military is just a tad preoccupied at the moment. Bigger fish to fry, don'tcha know.
Posted by: Joshua at August 24, 2005 04:32 PM (XPnN/)
15
duh.
we can't
do assassinations. the Clinton adminstration passed a law against it.
Posted by: matoko kusanagi at August 24, 2005 06:56 PM (DsETa)
16
Rusty, "I did not call for the assassination of that man."
Posted by: IO ERROR at August 24, 2005 08:06 PM (HaVXj)
17
Robertson has been around for a long time. If you note the first sentence of his statement. He did it on purpose. He has a history of making, well wild statements. He knew exactly what he was doing he needed/wanted attention for Pat just as much as he wanted attention for the Chavez issue. He won on all fronts no better publicity than bad.
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2005 08:50 PM (D3+20)
18
They can shout death to America. They can kill Americans. They can scream death to our President. (By they, I mean Chavez and his friends, Castro, Irans leaders and such). But when one over zealous American says the same its a big deal. Liberal crybaby assholes. If you're on the other side move there.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 24, 2005 08:53 PM (CBNGy)
19
Rusty, I don't think you're a realist at heart. I think you're a neocon at heart, which is really something quite different, unless you want to make the argument that neoconservatism is a radical form of realism.
Hugo Chavez is the democratically elected president of Venezuela, so it is pretty strange (not to mention counter to much of your rhetoric on this site) that you'd agree with Robertson on this. Or do you join him in apologizing today? Also, I do not see how eliminating Chavez would serve U.S. national interests. Could you explain that to me? If you do take this up, I think it will become clear that the "U.S. national interest" you favor actually benefits a small minority of American citizens and corporations (i.e. very few of the readers of The Jawa Report).
Regarding radical Islam: You are correct to note that it has been around since the early days of the religion, but this is a minor point (The U.S. government might as well base its entire approach towards Mormonism on the fact that there are still radical Mormons marrying 13 year olds by the dozen in Utah and northern Arizona).
You should know that I was referring to the rise of radical Islam as a political force significant enough to support 9/11 style terrorist attacks and garner sympathy from those otherwise moderate Muslims upset with U.S. policy. If you don't see the U.S./European role in prodding the development of that sort of radical Islamic terrorism I really don't know what to tell you other than that you should read Mark LeVine's excellent new book
Why They Don't Hate Us.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at August 24, 2005 09:00 PM (BueBw)
20
IM: you're indispensable.
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2005 09:03 PM (D3+20)
21
Oh one other thought. If Robertson really approved of this policy and thought it was possible he just made it about as improbable as it can possibly get.
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2005 09:17 PM (D3+20)
22
Sigh.... I miss my trolls....
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2005 09:23 PM (D3+20)
23
Professor Von Nostrand:
Is international law positive or natural?
If positive, what is the legislative body?
If natural, what ethical theory does it derive?
Posted by: John "Akatsukami" Braue at August 24, 2005 09:51 PM (SNKfY)
24
Hugo Chavez is the democratically elected president of Venezuela,..."
hahahaha. Sure he is. Jimmah said so.
Posted by: Oyster at August 24, 2005 10:06 PM (YudAC)
25
I don't necessarily disagree with points A and B... but I do think that there is a sense of "if the U.S. does it, it is okay."
If we do it and are caught doing it...it gives other nations carte blanche.
So, we can't give the U.S. the power to assassinate with impunity if we don't also trust, oh, say, Iran with the same power.
Unfortunately, the US has to play by the same (or at least similar) rules as which it would like others to play.
Finally, maybe you trust the current administration with this power... but how do you know you'll trust future administrations with this power.
No, we'll just have to do it the old fashioned way. Have operatives pose as locals and foment a coup. ;-)
Posted by: ArmyArtilleryWife at August 25, 2005 09:39 AM (14kpv)
26
I don't necessarily disagree with points A and B... but I do think that there is a sense of "if the U.S. does it, it is okay."
If we do it and are caught doing it...it gives other nations carte blanche.
The problem with this logic is that it assumes that other countries never have, are not, and never will attempt to use assassination, and that it's only some code of ethics that stands in their way. The only problem is, we KNOW that other countries have and are and will try it.
So, we can't give the U.S. the power to assassinate with impunity if we don't also trust, oh, say, Iran with the same power.
Depends on who you mean by "we". If you mean "We, the People", my response is, why not? It's not like Iran is waiting for our permission anyway.
Unfortunately, the US has to play by the same (or at least similar) rules as which it would like others to play.
No, the US is expected to play by a set of rules much much stricter than that by which everyone else DOES play. And while the rest of the world commits the most egregious of offenses, even the most minor of infractions by Americans is greeted with howls of indignation. Let's face it -- nothing we do, no matter how far we bend over, no matter how much we could grovel and prostrate ourselves, would make a dent in the demonization of the US. So I am left wondering why we keep worrying about international opinion when it's obvious that it's prejudiced to begin with. We're the Great satan? Fine. Just don't be surprised when we actually start wielding that pitchfork.
Finally, maybe you trust the current administration with this power... but how do you know you'll trust future administrations with this power.
I don't trust ANY administration with ANY power unless there's some sort of checks and balances. But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Posted by: Brian B at August 25, 2005 10:58 AM (CouWh)
27
Professor Von Nostrand, I really must question your grip on history as well as reality.
1. There is no international law. Period. Law without an enforcement mechanism is merely a suggestion. The UN has shown repeatedly that it cannot and will not enforce anything. See, e.g. Saddam Hussein's Iraq. What the UN does do is allow murderous and undemocratic regimes (Iran, Syria, China, etc.) a forum to bash us accusing us of violating "international law" as they define it, setting up a moral equivalency between us and them, which is unacceptable in theory as well as practice. The US "throwing its weight" behind international law has no effect if the real violators of it continue to define it and prevent its enforcement against themselves.
2. Radical Islam, in its present strains, dates from at least the 19th century, with the founding of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, well before the US or even Western Europe was involved in any meaningful way in the Middle East. If you want someone to "blame" for that aside from the supremecist elements within Islam itself, take it up with the Ottoman Turks.
3. Hugo Chavez was indeed elected democratically -- for the first election. The recall election last August, however, was rife with fraud noted by nearly every single independent international observer (including the OAS) except for Jimmy Carter. The fraud was perpetrated by the election officials picked by Chavistas who counted the votes and may have just reversed the percentages. If you think Hugo Chavez was democratically elected last August, you must also think that Saddam Hussein was democratically elected, not to mention the thug in charge of Iran right now.
Posted by: ProCynic at August 25, 2005 11:45 AM (bfkgE)
28
Uh... news flash... "our enemies" are "justifying assassinating our President" and "justifying" targeting women and children.
Posted by: DANEgerus at August 25, 2005 12:35 PM (J8yxJ)
29
Pat helped point out what the Washington Post and all other media ignores: Hugo must go. He is a thief and a liar, hum sounds like the devil.
Posted by: John Morrison at August 25, 2005 02:25 PM (ZETBb)
30
To equate Hugo Chavez to Saddam, or to any of the other tyrants we've supported around the world is just assinine. Chavez is a democraticly elected leader who enjoys widespread support among the populous of Venezuela (59% according to last year's recall vote endorsed by the Carter Center and the OAS as fair). Chavez may be less than perfect, but to see Rusty call for his assassination only demonstrates the degree to which any ethical standards he ever had have been flushed down the toilet.
And to hear what I can only assume to be a bunch of Bush Republicans suggest that Chavez' victory in the recall election were tainted is beyond hypocritical. When you want to deal with Florida 2000, or Ohio 2004 then I'll listen to your complaints. Otherwise, you have no moral standing at all.
Posted by: Professor Peter Von Nostrand at August 25, 2005 08:33 PM (BueBw)
31
If we allow the murders of political leaders all over the world it would bite us in the behind. The markets of the world would become so unstable that it would wreck our economy.
Posted by: social rob at August 25, 2005 10:23 PM (tXv5y)
32
Oh, Professor, your comments sound like those of a "useful idiot" in the failed Marxist-Leninist tradition, of which the last bastions are Castro's Cuba, Chavista Venezuela and, not surprisingly given your opinion, American university campuses. But I'll play
If you actually think that last year's recall "election" was fair, perhaps you should visit Daniel's blog (http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/) can tell you how much of a sham last year's election was, how Jimmy Carter sold out the people of Venezuela just to hurt the US in the true Carter anti-American tradition. Msybe he can give you an idea of the hell Chavez has created, the dictatorial power he has assumed, the aid he has given to murderous narco-rebels in Colombia, the mullahs in Iran and, yes, al Qaida; and the threat he represents to the US. That is, the people here who read this blog who don't want to be killed or made to suffer just so you can maintain your sense of moral superiority. Maybe, if you're willing to listen. But your kool-aid comments suggest you are not.
Now, I could say that on a practical level, you are correct in that the Venezuelan recall "election" last year was comparable to Ohio and Florida, the chief difference being that the attempts of the leftists to cheat in Venezuela to "elect" Chavez were successful, while the leftists' attempts to cheat in Ohio and Florida to get the traitorous John Kerry elected failed.
And I could go one step further and suggest that if you want election fraud in the US, you have far better places to look than Florida and Ohio. May I suggest Washington state's gubernatorial race? How 'bout the presidential race in Milwaukee? How 'bout other races in East St. Louis and East Chicago?
But I'll just settle for stating the obvious that anyone who insists that Hugo Chavez runs an election more fair and honest than the US surrenders all moral and intellectual legitimacy.
I'd tell you to book your trip to Jonestown, but you're already there. Your academic institution and your students have my sympathies, but we've come to expect that from our universities today. Please say "Hi!" to Ward Churchill for me.
Posted by: ProCynic at August 25, 2005 10:32 PM (6krEN)
33
Why stop with hugo chevez lets include fidel castro in that list as well
Posted by: sandpiper at August 27, 2005 05:37 PM (qMAo+)
34
Pat Robertson apologizing for a remark against an enemy of America and the moonbat liberals think it a big deal.
Clinton apology for getting blow jobs in the White House and lying to the American public on television is small deal?
Von Nostril, Vemon how one sided and stupid can you get? You two are beginning to remind me of the Sheehan bitch.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 27, 2005 11:04 PM (CBNGy)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 20, 2005
No, the Military Does Not Know How to Win the Propaganda War
Via
Glenn Reynolds, this from
Michael Yon. It's sad that our military does not understand how to handle the flow of information from Iraq. For all the great stories Yon brings us, I was surprised to learn that many more are suppressed.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
03:25 PM
| Comments (8)
| Add Comment
Post contains 334 words, total size 2 kb.
1
I've been advocating for massive ammounts of pro U.S. propoganda. We need to be dropping leaflets and basic supplies all over the country to get total support from the average Iraqi.
We should be commandeering television/radio stations and just make use of basic information warfare tactics. I haven't seen much if any coverage of any sort of attempts to reduce enemy morale. We've got the resources to annihilate these people in the info warfare and propoganda war.
I don't think we are though, it's sad and worries me a litle bit.
Posted by: tyler at August 20, 2005 05:00 PM (t+GZI)
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at August 20, 2005 06:08 PM (JQjhA)
3
Our government has had a mortal fear of propaganda since the 1950's, which, coincidentally, was about the same time that Soviet moles infiltrated the government and media in massive numbers. And everyone though Krushchev was kidding when he said he would conquer us without firing a shot...
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 20, 2005 11:25 PM (0yYS2)
4
Information Warfare and Security is a very interesting book. It focuses a lot on network and computer security but also touches on information warfare tactics used during the Gulf War. The book is extremely easy to read, anyone would understand it.
Moles are inevitable though, it's hard for me to believe that proven info warfare tactics wouldn't be employed today due to mole worries.
Even in the 50's it would seem silly to not take certain actions because there moles working in your agency. I shouldn't really speak of what I don't really know though. I think my mother was still in college in the 50's.
Posted by: tyler at August 21, 2005 12:38 AM (t+GZI)
5
Another thing I've wondered about too is why we have so many websites and publications compiling statistics on our fallen soldiers or Iraqi civilians and no one has done the same with how many terrorists have been taken out or blown themselves up. Someone should have graphs, dates and names if possible. They should have monthly followups on "key" operatives eliminated from the gene pool. (Rusty is good on getting us the info on "key" operatives) Otherwise, the only info we get on any of it is sporadic and slipshod. Hell, when a suicide bombing with one or more terrorists involved occurs and they give us a count of the dead, they include the terrorists and you're left wondering how many were innocents. For instance, one accounting last year by major news outlets said their was a massive death count somewhere of 49 dead at once. Later, we find that 27 of them were terrorists!
I think sometimes our government wants to lose. They suck at keeping us informed with actual data to counter all the hype and propaganda the disgusting and traitorous media puts out.
Posted by: Hollywood Oyster at August 21, 2005 07:49 AM (YudAC)
6
Speaking of propaganda, I was at a Presbyterian college for a wedding Saturday, and in one student services building I found islamic apologetic propaganda, and how-to books for radicals and demonstrators. Unfuckingbelievable. If only people knew they were speding 30K a year to get their kids indoctrinated into hating their country.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 21, 2005 07:17 PM (0yYS2)
7
Tyler, it's not that the actions are not taken out of concern for moles, but that moles warn against taking that action and work to discredit it.
Ask yourself why the press considers it unethical to embed with US forces, but gleefully pays "stringers" who are actually jihadis for posed photos and staged attacks.
Posted by: Robert Crawford at August 22, 2005 06:57 AM (1j9aH)
8
Moles should be easy to spot. If we didn't have any muslims here we wouldn't have the problem.
ISLAM OUT OF AMERICA.
They bring nothing but problems. They contribute nothing to our society,
Posted by: greyrooster at August 22, 2005 06:59 PM (OvTKg)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Beuracratic Culture Caused 9/11
Organizations and institutions have cultures. Cultures set boundaries for acceptable behavior. Who do you blame when an institution's culture directly led to 9/11? The Clinton Administration and Jamie Gorelick are too easy targets. Cultures are not created overnight. They take years to develop into routines that are followed without a second thought. To claim that a single memo and a new Adminstration could change a culture is to overlook mountains of research on bureaucratic behavior.
Clinton and Gorelick should both be blamed for reinforcing and bolstering an institutional culture that limited the sharing of intelligence with law enforcement, but that culture has deeper roots. Its foundations are in the institutional design laid by Congress dividing intelligence gathering from enforcement and in the Carter Administratian's over correcting of perceived Nixon era abuses.
Even so, the Clinton Administration and Jamie Gorelick did nothing to correct this culture. In fact, all indications are that they made things worse. But making a dysfunctional culture worse is a far cry from claiming that they are responsible for creating the culture.
This story, told by an veteran Intel. operative over at Captain's Quarters, is precisely the kind of thing one would expect to hear from a bureucrat working in any number of government agencies. For some reason, though, we expect this kind of behavior at the DMV, but not the FBI, CIA, or DIA. We all hope our Intel agencies are run by characters resembling 'M' from the James Bond movies. Unfortunately, it seems, our Intel agencies have been run by those who have more in common with Patty and Selma Bouviere, the twin sisters of Marge Simpson who man the window at the Springfield DMV, than MacGyver. Captain's Quarters:
"Yeah," the head DIA guy said, a bit sheepishly, "they are DIA, but theyÂ’re a different part of DIA and we canÂ’t talk to them." [That's the only quote from the meeting where I recall actual words spoken.]
We blinked a few times, and then all consideration of terrorism was dropped from the task. But not before it was pointed out that we and DIA werenÂ’t really counter-terrorism experts [although we were threat assessment experts], that the problem was probably being worked by so-&-so and such-&-such, and that they probably had better data, more experience, more resources than we did.
That is what Clinton and Gorelik's Wall culture did. It just didn't just prevent more effective cooperation and data sharing; it prevented the whole question of terrorism being addressed in a coherent fashion at all. No one was working the problem effectively, but I bet they all thought -- just like we were told – that someone else was. That’s the "I thought you brought the matches" school of intelligence analysis, and that was the end effect of Clinton's intelligence policy: it turned the whole process of intelligence into one big game of "Who brought the matches?"
And on 9/11 we found out who: Al Qaeda brought the matches.
Read the whole story.
Posted by: Rusty at
02:50 PM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
Post contains 485 words, total size 3 kb.
1
I agree and disagre. First agreement. Carter castrated both the CIA and FBI 27 years ago. They have been staffed by geldings ever since; with a very feble attempt to put men in between 1981 and 1988. So in that sense the culture of ineptness has been in control for almost 3 dedades. (I have seen nothing that indicates we are really geting the deadwood out of either of these agencies. Lots of talk but action is hard to find.)
Disagreement. As Ashcroft pointed out almost 18 months ago "The Wall" absolutely made the passing of Able Danger's info along. Had they done it back in 00 they would have been Court Marshalled and sent to jail about the time of 911. Anyone who has been an officer in the Armed Forces can tell you they had no choice. Officers follow orders. Even dumb one from highly placed ill informed civilians.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at August 20, 2005 07:12 PM (03F0I)
2
Rod: How do you fire an incompetent government employee hired years ago. Impossible. The democrats know this an go on hiring sprees whenever in office. They also single out certain groups of people that they believe will remain loyal to them. Right or wrong.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 21, 2005 07:05 AM (linwh)
3
Actually, the blame should be spread out even farther than what you suggest. The American public stood idly by, too, while they demanded that the government protect us while tying their hands behind their backs. They lost all sense of what's important. To them it was important to amend the Constitution to give us abortion rights, but not to allow the government to pry into the affairs of those who would do us harm. You know, civil liberty and all that? Civil liberties they felt should be extended to everyone and anyone entering the country regardless of their agendas or from whence they came. Unless, of course, they were Jewish.
Througout the Clinton era, more than once I remarked to friends that with our military being gutted the way it was we were a prime target for attack or invasion. I didn't want to be right.
Posted by: Hollywood Oyster at August 21, 2005 08:16 AM (YudAC)
4
Fifth Column
International leftwing Culture
Example
LEFT-WING teachers have created a "dangerous" anti-American bias in Australian schoolchildren
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/costello-alarm-at-antius-teachers/2005/08/21/1124562751557.html?oneclick=true
The seeds of are destruction are being planted in the minds of children
Posted by: Al Azif at August 21, 2005 01:21 PM (P48Jd)
5
Bureaucracy pollutes all levels of government. Different divisions in the same city do not talk with each other because of turf wars. County and City governments do not cooperate...millions are wasted year, just here in NC alone...I have seriously been considering trying to find funding to research waste in public works/utilities moneys due to this sort of thing...but I make money off of it as it is....and it would piss people off...maybe when I get closer to retirement.
Posted by: Mr. K at August 21, 2005 07:18 PM (BqOOc)
6
What nobody seems to mention is the original motive for the Clinton/Gorelik wall. There has been speculation that the the real reason for the wall was to stop or hinder any FBI/CIA cooperation in the investigation of the Clinton Chinese campaign contibtution scandal and a possible connection to inappropriate technology tranfers. The closer you look the worse they look.
Posted by: Stephen at August 22, 2005 09:38 AM (t2Vip)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
198kb generated in CPU 0.0434, elapsed 0.1512 seconds.
133 queries taking 0.124 seconds, 508 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.