1 "If we pull out, they will have won." Indeed. Which is almost certainly why those on the far left continually beat the drum for pulling out, while those on the not-quite-so-far left, being more politically adept than the extreme left, merely demand a timetable for our pullout. In either case, they are militarily naive.

2 after you liberate a country, you have to stick around and help rebuild and bring order back into the civilians daily lives....its like going to a party at youre friends house, you go in and make a huge mess and than cut and run and leave it for youre friends to clean up....not quite the same but you get my drift.....yes, wars make a mess, but after its over, you help rebuild, dont just pull out and leave the citizens to try and get every thing in order...and in Iraq, there are terrorists and quite a few of Saddams buddies still running around who would just take over the goverment after the US and coalition troops are gone and youre right back were you started from....a repressive regime as bad if not worse than when Saddam and his evil sons were in charge....imagine if the Allies had just left Germany after WWII was over...yea, Hitler was dead, but many of his followers were still on the run, they would have probally just put themselves back in power as there wouldnt have been any one there to keep them out...its just plain old common sense

3 "In either case, they are militarily naive." I disagree; they know exactly what the outcome of an early pullout would be, and that's exactly what they want.

4 It will take years for the rest of iraq to overcome the fear of the former rulers. Too pull out now would just leave the country to them. Also it would be the final straw as we have left the Curds and Shia in the south holding the bag before. If we hope to have any credibility in the future we must not falter.

5 There are a few of us left who don't subscribe to either withdrawal or a timetable. We just need a little encouragement from our friends on the right to keep on fighting the good fight.

6 This takes me back to the presidential debates last fall. President Bush was talking about the human sacrifice that the Iraqis were making. To me, Kerry dismissed the idea of this sacrifice as insignificant and almost laughed about it. No one in these two families are laughing Mr. Kerry. Here are two more ordinary men whose motivation was probably first and foremost to support their families. No doubt they knew the risk they were taking. I’m sure they were encouraged by the fact that by taking these jobs, they were helping bring Iraq back to a normal state where families would be safe to walk the streets. It’s too bad their killers will be encouraged to continue these senseless murders by favorable comments from movie studios, celebrities, US news media and even members of Congress and the Senate. I think Syria needs to be held responsible for the non-Iraqis who are doing most of this barbaric killing. Next time a car bomb goes off in Iraq, a cruse missile should be launched at a military target in Syria. This line in the sand between Iraq and Syria stinks like the Yalu River and the DMZ. Perhaps the Syrians can be coerced into policing the boarder and not being partners in this crime. Our only options are not limited to leaving in a year or Iraq-ization (made up word). We could try to win this war decisively. I drove past a “Support the troops, Bring them home rally today in Lake Forest Park (just N of Seattle). All peace now type people, one of whom is a member of my Parish. Do they really want us to just hand over these brave people to this gang of thugs? What is wrong with Victory and Freedom and Justice for all?

7 Brad, "handing them over?" America can't even hand over Haifa Street!

8 Your solution Downing Street?

9 For those of you who don't know, Haifa Street is right outside the BUSH ZONE of Central Bagdad. Then there is pleasant "Route Irish", the gentle thoroughfare between the BUSH ZONE and Saddam International Airport. Yeah, secure Route Irish, where Calipari was gunned down dead! If BUSH wanted to sell you the title to NY's Coop City, would you buy it? Silly Rooster, pass the ketchup and cook me more food, you wanker!

10 Ya, but..Your solution?

11 Strange Young Man Brad, First, pass the food that Rooster is so greedy and possessive over, then we can discuss the issue..

12 Just as I thought, bitchin and complaining is a lazy occupation. Get off your ass after mass tomorrow morning and mow the lawn. Your parents found that copy of Jihad Boy under your mattress and they are pissed off.

13 Bradley Dear, I've lost my appetite with such foulmouthed chicanery from young chickenhawks like you. Rooster can keep his grubby food and feed it to his dog. Respect your elders, dammit! - you wouldn't be saying such garbage if Johnson was in the White House.

14 I have 3 kids to put to bed and have fewer and few elders. I suspect you are not one of them. Say good night to your partner downing street and say a prayer for the troops and people of Iraq. BTW, I saw LBJ at the Boy Scout Jamboree in Valley Forge PA. My Dad was stationed at an Army hospital in Phoenixville Pa. I was too young to be a Boy Scout. I remember going with my dad who was a Major and an ENT surgeon. His team was asked to come and provide medical assistance to the scouts if needed, I donÂ’t remember seeing LBJ, but I do hear my dad tell me I saw him each Christmas when we see our super 8 movies after dinner. BTW: Are my brother and sister and I the only Army brats who are saluting the camera in almost every movie scene? Downing Street, yÂ’all got nothing to add but criticism

15 Bradley Dearest, You have ok manners and you stay away from the Klanster.

16 Like so many critics, I still don’t know what the opponents want. Spell it out for us. I maintain that victory is possible if we stem the flow of foreign “fighters” or as I would call them “ cold blooded murders”. These men charged with bringing order to this country (Our Soldiers, Marines and Sailors) don’t need to be kicked in he ass while they are doing our bidding. You can’t possible support the Sunni or foreign killers unless you are a cold blooded killing unit like them. Can’t you get behind a plan that will ensure the 2nd democracy in the Middle East? Re the Klansman: He is pulling your tail to get a response. I would feel safer as a black man in his hands than a Jew in the hands of some of the Tin Foil posters on this blog. Not much mention of that, guess the word Klan just rolls off the lips easier.

17 One plan is to realize there are 25 million people in Iraq. Many of them are very pissed off and they give not a rat's ass who the top dog is, as long as the basics of life are available. That means not getting blown up by car bombs or being shot. Under BUSH's illegal war, all hell has broken loose and shown no sign of letting up. After Fallujah, winning hearts and minds is friggin' gone. Pull American troops out and let them create their own government.

18 Klansman is a psycho who thinks all Islam is coming to get him. His racism is atrocious and his false patriotism is appalling to all who live in America. His dog eats a whole set of 72 crayons and takes a giant technicolor dump on his kitchen floor. His breath stinks worse than fermented pig farmer's sweaty socks after a sewage-grease wrestling match with a rabid 1000-pound sow.

19 The war was not illegal under the terms of the original cease fire agreement of '91. Have you heard of any nation taking this up with the U.N. security coucil? No. Not that the liberal media would tell you about it if anyone tried and failed. Spend some time absorbing alternative sources of info "Downing Street Memo" before making a fool out of yourself.

20 Try me Jagers, How was the war legal under the terms of the 1991 Ceasefire Agreement, smart young man? You must be a legal eagle who says torture is quaint too. I may be an old redneck sick of politicians, but my eyes still work. Show us all the source you claim makes BUSH's invasion legal. Tell it to the 1700 AMERICAN families who lost their child there too.

21 Guys, you're wasting your time arguing with this Downing Street person. He's consumed with bitterness. I guess he thinks if he says the same thing over and over one of us will eventually somnambulate over to the other side, mesmerized by his clever words and superior intelligence. I have to admit I find his William S. Burroughs style vomitings clever, but that's all they are; adjectives he found in his thesuarus used to show his distaste. It eats him up to think that someone else may have come to a different conclusion than he has about the nature of things. You know, like we actually think for ourselves. Boy, we've got nerve, don't we? He sees us as nothing more than recalcitrant children he has been charged with chastising. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

22 Tuck Bradley and Co No one invited America into Iraq. They never went in there to free any one but to steal rape and control Iraq and their resources. The same lame doc excuses you make now was made about Vietnam and has been recycled over and over again by that bunch of NEOCONS leading America to there downfall. Mark my words "when the time come, America would do what they do best. When the going gets tough, tuck tail and run". Those two men paid the price for treachery as sad as it looks they where nothing but traitors. And while your at it would you call carpet BOMBING AND TOTAL DISTRUCTION OF COMMUNITIES AND IRAQ BY THE AMERICANS A BLESSING? Look Bradley, America chose the route of oppression intimidation and domination, and as long as such mentality persist, there will always be wars and resistance will follow.

23 I believe that should be lame "duck" and it's their, not there. Use an "s" when you want to denote plurality. Your use of the word "persist" as an intransitive verb must have an "s" on the end. Also, put a period after treachery, followed by one or two spaces, then capitalize the "A" in "an". Oh yeah, use a comma after "looks". You're, not your. Let's just throw in a couple more commas because I like them. This is my point; why should I take the advice of someone who didn't pay enough attention in school to learn how to spell, but thinks s/he knows everything else? The use of caps was especially intimidating. Ow.

24 Oyster said, "This is my point; why should I take the advice of someone who didn't pay enough attention in school to learn how to spell, but thinks s/he knows everything else?" BUT BUSH HAS WHAT IT TAKES TO BRAINWASH YOU. OR ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER RASIST REDNECK? What have you under YoUr BeD??? WhiTe bEd shEEt and a wooden CroSs ever ReaDy tObE ToucHeD? How many other languages do you speak? It does not occur to you that English may not be my first language. Or do you still think the world begins and ends in the USA???? What ever prejudice and ignorance you embrace, it does not and will not change truth. The USA is on a fast TRACK TO SELF DISTRUCTION. Just Like the USSR WAS IN Afghanistan. Your want to play the colonial game? You should have done it in the early part of the last century. Peace to all mankind oooooops I forgot to do a spellcheck

25 Hilarious! Downing Street Memo single handedly pins down an entire neocon squadron with suppressive fire.

26 Downing Street, you talk like this is 2 years ago. Were not discussing whether to go into Iraq or not. Mindlessly repeating “Bush Lied soldiers died” is not an answer to today’s situation in Iraq. You want to pull our troops out and just leave the Iraqis to themselves? Your short post about removing the troops NOW seems to indicate there would be almost no human consequences. Yours is the strategy for the next Pol Pot. Shit Greg, this guy has nothing to offer but pulling out and allowing what he feels is a mistake in policy to lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands or millions. Sometimes it takes sacrifice and courage to be a real humanitarian

27 "Peace to all mankind" Nice thought, but what is the plan for attaining this goal? Is it to leave oppression and tyranny in place and just smile that we have freedom? We did that, and the madness in the countries of those that are 'peacefully oppressed' came to visit. Did you forget?

28 You know what really cracks me up...we are all arguing about something which most of us have not seen. We are basing our facts upon what other people report or write. So since you'll never find unbiased broadcasting or newspapers/magazines, our "reality" about our leaders and the war are fundamentally skewed or flawed. How many of us know Bush? How many of us have been over there fighting in this war to see what's really going down? I guess there are some numbers which are hard to disprove, like the dead soldier count and dead Iraqi civilian count, which pretty much sinks the whole "liberation" claim. I just find it interesting that we went to war because...9/11: Osama is still not caught. Osama fucking hated Saddam, but now there are all sorts of claims that they were in cahoots together, despite the hijackers being almost all Saudis, no Iraqis. I guess our oil reserve wasn't large enough to attack Saudi Arabia? Maybe if our economy wasn't in a debt bubble we could take a swipe from our credit cards and direct it to where the attackers are from? Then there's the whole WMD...sorry guys, but they didn't find squat and there are plenty military reports to back that up. The only weapons found were the ones WE sold Saddam so he could butt-fuck Iran. No nukes, no "mushroom clouds"...so now that Bush has failed to find WMD, it's all about "liberating" Iraq and wholesome democracy (anarchy) being spread. What a fucking crock of shit. Yeah, we can't pull out of there. If we did it would be insane...there are no easy solutions to this mess. I will say this though: our current administration is a bunch of self-serving, dishonest, moralistic hypocrites who deserve prison time for what they have done and how they have lied to us all. The polls are showing that Americans are catching on and can't be duped for 8 years. I read everyone's posts in here and I know you are good, honest, well intentioned people, and I agree with most of you about most things, except Bush. It will be a sad day when those of you who believe in him realize how you've been betrayed from the start.

29 >>>"Michael Moore's Minutemen Murder Civilians in Iraq" Michael Moore was loving it when the insurgents were killing GIs, calling them "minutemen" and "the Revolution". But he's been strangely silent about these freedom fighters since they turned their sights on fellow Iraqis. Leftists are so fucking stupid.

30 I'm amazed at the all consuming hatred some have for Bush.As a Canadian I think the man is principled and focused - more so than the previous two presidents. What I find strange in the anti war argument is the absense of chronology about when Islamic terrorism began and the lack of recognition for needed foreign policy change arising from the collapse of Communism, and hence the ability to abandon real politik diplomacy. Now policy can pursue freedom and democracy for the first time in a century or more because the US is the only superpower. But this window may extend only another 5 -10 years until Chindia assumes much greater power. 9 -11 was transforming and prompted the preemptive/preventive response that bothers many. To expect support from other countries which didn't experience a 9- 11 is delusionary especially given the weak economic and moral state of Europe along with its anti- Americanism. Not to mention the UN where anti- democratic members outnumber democracies. I'll ask the Bush haters for their solution to the terrorism problem - but don't argue that its the fault of the West. Note that most major countries - ex the US- were invaded at some point but the emerged as sovereign nations many with a civil society. The Palestinians are a counterpoint: they have received enough aid to create a prosperous state in my opinion but instead they chose victimhood and corruption - so blame the West? Finally will the Bush haters elect to await the next terror attack or do they have a plan for protection ?

31 Re owning Street Memo You ain't no old redneck! You're just trying to benefit from our popularity by claiming to be one. Your young protege Greg is sucking up to you by giving you some unmerited credit. Because Greg thinks you make sense is a sure indicator that you are barking at the mooooonnnn! HaHa! But anyway, back to the original claim. You are an imposter of a redneck, or Greg would hate you. You need to read what Greg said about us rednecks in some previous posts. Well, I guess I might have convinced Greg to love us rednecks, but I doubt it. Most likely he sees you for what you really are.

32 I see Brad is years ahead of Downing street memo. I have a feeling who and what downing street is. He wouldn't be worth a shit in a game of chance where realistic thinking rules the table. Probably not worth a shit at anything else either. Just remember crybaby downing street memo. If I say anything not factural. Let us know. I know the truth hurts but recognition of it is the starting point of accepting realilty. Something you have failed to do. Who is robbing who. Who are the muggers? Who are the crack dealers? Who are the murderers on Americas streets? What race represents 95% of the murderers and rapists in Angola prison? Who is bombing innocent civilians in Iraq? I'll tell you who it isnt. Not the nazis, not the KKK, not the average white man. The constant stupidity of pointing to them at every opportunity is nothing but stupidity. Read the papers. Listen to the news. Study the figures. Quit being an asshole and wake up. Face the truth. There is a 1000 more whites attacked, raped, robbed, murdered by blacks than blacks by the KKK. Stupid bunch of liberal idiots. Address the real problems in our society. If you don't believe the Muslims wish to take over our civilization in the name of their religion you are a fool.

33 IT never ceases to amaze that people still talk about punishing the Saudi's, these are probably the same pussies that waste a gallon of gas driving to Starbucks in their SUV every morning and cry when they see gas has gone up four cents. Don't mistake your roll: You're a Saudi lapdog, they'll move the gas prices up, and you'll keep pumping. Just keep driving your gas-guzzling SUV and keep preaching to us about your hardline against the Saudi's!

34 Arrrooooosta Racis' ol chap 'ol buddy of none you are scroungy enoug to marrry Downing Hag and you fight with every breath

35 rOOSTETR IS BBABLER=

36 Screw you little punk BUSH LIES, Klanman Rooster is so grubby he gave his dog the mange.

37 dave The US imports around 70% of it's oil from Canada. The problem with SA has more to do with our trading partners than with us.

38 Guys, listen to me, these idiots keep posting here for the sole purpose of disruption. They are trolls, and must be ignored, because they have nothing substantive to add to the discussion. Every time we reply to their idiocy, they have succeeded in the mission, so the best thing to do is let them die of neglect. I will no long reply in any manner to anything they post, nor will I even read it. If we let them continue, they will kill this blog because people will start leaving, and they will move on to the next blog. They are a plague of locusts, and they feed on attention. Let them starve.

39 DG, According to the American Petroleum Institute, the U.S imports 15% of it's oil imports from Canada, and 14% from Saudi -- which makes Saudi still play a huge role. http://api-ec.api.org/filelibrary/Imports305.pdf

40 Dave, I'd sooner punish our corporations (the ones that don't have the USA's best interests) than the Saudis. You know damn well we could have cars and trucks on alternative fuels by now if it wasn't for the oil industry's firm grip on our economy's nut-sack. I also don't have a SUV or truck, so don't peg me on that...though I do agree that if people bitch about high prices maybe they shouldn't be taking the hummer around the block to buy BLSD's "McChimpy Bin Hamburglers". Gayrooster: your racism always amazes me. How about this...if your dumb ass forefathers were so lazy that they couldn't do their own work and had to import slaves, it's lovely karma that you have to deal with the aftereffects. I hope you wrong the right brother and get your ass kicked.

41 Our fathers, who art in Arabia, hallowed be thy Oil. Thy shiekdom come, thy oil rigs be one, in Iraq as it is in Syria. Give us this day our daily gas, and forgive us our poor MPG's, as we forgive those whose MPG's are worse. And lead us not into hydrogen fuel cells, but deliver us from Anwar drilling. For thine is the shiekdom, the horsepower, and the smog, Forever and ever... Amen.

42 Osamabinchimpin: Your cowardly ways will not stop the truth. If you feel you must kiss your (BROTHERS) ass same as you kiss the muslims ass for security. Go ahead. They will bomb you, rob you, murder you whether you continue to suck up to them or not. Kissing asses will not protect your car during the next riot. They will burn yours along with the rest. Some of us are not afraid of getting our asses kicked for telling the truth. I never owned any slaves. Nor would I. Just keep reminding me of how terrible a person I am because my great, great, great, great grandfather may or may not have owned some. If he did I know who he bought them from and you can bet they weren't white. Slaves were caught and captured by other blacks and by your muslim friends. Once again, a liberal attempt to circumnavigate the truth and blame the white man. Bullshit! pure Bullshit! It is not so much that I hate anyone. It's that I am sick and tired for being blamed for the problems of other races who are jealous of mine. I'm proud of being a white American. We have done more for the world than the rest combined. But the chicken hearted would rather hide in the in the corner and kiss ass than tell it like it is. Not my way, not my nature. You do the suck ass for protection thing for me. Please note you and other ass kissers haven't one time been able to refuted to statement I have made. If you're not proud of who you are then you are nothing.

43 GayprideweekendRooster: "Your cowardly ways will not stop the truth." Say what? You're the fucking coward, old man...racism like yours is a lame attempt to be a real man with principals and good values. "If you feel you must kiss your (BROTHERS) ass same as you kiss the muslims ass for security. Go ahead." Oh yeah, hoping your racist ass gets kicked by a brother is kissing ass. Hahaha... Oh yeah, and was any of my post about Muslims? Noooooo... Do I kiss anyone's ass? Nooooo... Do I like terrorists? Noooooo... Nothing like a little distraction when you feel threatened, huh? I doesn't work. You're still a fucking racist pig. "They will bomb you, rob you, murder you whether you continue to suck up to them or not. Kissing asses will not protect your car during the next riot. They will burn yours along with the rest." Oh yeah, the bombs are going off now. The streets are in mayhem! Save me! Oh I wish I had been a KKK hick or a neo-nazi punk! They were right! Boohoo! Oh, and all kidding aside, the only person who ever tried to rob me was a white guy, and I broke his fucking nose. "Some of us are not afraid of getting our asses kicked for telling the truth." Sounds to me like you're going to get your ass kicked for telling lies. "I never owned any slaves. Nor would I. Just keep reminding me of how terrible a person I am because my great, great, great, great grandfather may or may not have owned some." Well, my great grandparents had slaves on a plantation in Virginia and I don't think I'm a terrible person just because I'm related to someone I never met. But if your KKK ass is going to bitch about black people it's like walking out into the street without looking, getting hit by a car and blaming the driver. I suppose your sink has lots of unwashed dishes in it, no? "If he did I know who he bought them from and you can bet they weren't white." Oh yeah, I forgot the blacks were very successful business men selling themselves back then. Hahaha...you are so full of it. "Slaves were caught and captured by other blacks and by your muslim friends. Once again, a liberal attempt to circumnavigate the truth and blame the white man. Bullshit! pure Bullshit!" Are you accusing me of something I never said? I think so. I'm also not a liberal, you cunt. I know what you just said already and never said the contrary. Almost no race is not guilty of enslaving themselves or other races. "It is not so much that I hate anyone. It's that I am sick and tired for being blamed for the problems of other races who are jealous of mine." You shouldn't be blamed unless you are personally responsible for oppression or promoting oppression. You're pretty dumb to think they are all jealous of your white ass and red neck. I suppose you're also dumb enough to think terrorist's only reason for hating us is because they are jealous of "our freedoms". What a crock of shit. "I'm proud of being a white American. We have done more for the world than the rest combined." Feeling ethnocentric today, are we? "But the chicken hearted would rather hide in the in the corner and kiss ass than tell it like it is." Or the ignorant and racist cowards would like to play tough and use fear and lies to keep the thruth from being known. When you have so many lies, "it's hard work"! "Not my way, not my nature. You do the suck ass for protection thing for me. Please note you and other ass kissers haven't one time been able to refuted to statement I have made." What the hell are you talking about? I respond to all of your shrunken testicle statements. You make no sense old man...take your meds. "If you're not proud of who you are then you are nothing." You're worse than nothing if you're proud of the KKK.