1 "Any wonder why we fight for over judgeships like there's no tommorrow?"-Traderrob Is it because you want to suppress the truth at all costs?

2 "Any wonder why we fight for over judgeships like there's no tommorrow?" Why? do you think a different judge would rule differently?

3 It's a balance between the "peoples right to know" and the potential harm to security efforts. We are in a time of war and it certainly would be prudent to keep certain potentially volatile things under wraps. It has been done in times of war since we became a nation. Only recently have satisfying the insatiable voyeurism of certain segments of the public become paramount. Releasing the infornmation is not in question, most everything is made public eventually, the problem is timing. Does anyone honestly believe that the benefit of this material being released now will offset the potential damage it will elicit? This ain't bean bag, this is war, and if one soldiers life is jeopardized because some judge makes an arbitrary decision in a vacuum a greater injustice will have been done.

4 Facts do not the truth make. All facts must be seen in context in order to be understood. Further, when facts would lead to the deaths of American soldiers then yes, I would suppress the facts. Releasing the photos will only lead to more death. I value American lives over the public's 'right to see'.

5 That's cool. The military should do it by the book, and transparency helps ensure that. Keeps us honest. But I know the ACLU's motivation is purely political.

6 good point Rusty.

7 "Releasing the photos will only lead to more death."-Rusty It was the behavior that put American lives in danger, not the photos. We already know the photos exist and have been told by Congress critters that the second batch of photos dwarfs the first batch in terms of negative impact. The best way to ensure that such incidents don't occur again is to expose them and prosecute offenders stringently. To not do so makes the military heirarchy seem complicit.

8 "It's a balance between the "peoples right to know" and the potential harm to security efforts. " Are you saying what the law is or what it should be? And which way should a judge go?

9 Judges should abide by the law but also exercise common sense.

10 Releasing these images to the American public is the right thing to do. We pay the taxes that the military spends fighting the war and paying the troops. We have a right to see how our money is being spent. The reason they want to keep these images from getting out is because it will enrage AMERICANS, and we might get off our asses and put a stop to this war. That's the real reason, not because they don't want to inflame the Iraqi freedom fighters. They did that by releasing Saddam in his underwear.

11 Unfortunately I have to say that exposure of current wrongs is the only way to ensure that they don't happen again. Of course there will be a price to pay, but those who committed these stupid acts must be held fully accountable, but not only at the lower levels. I was in the Army, and I know for a guaranteed 100% fact that nothing on the scale of Abu Ghraib happens without someone knowing about it. An officer's job is to know everything that goes on in their unit; the Army is fanatical about reports, and either officers weren't doing their jobs and leaving it up to the NCO's, (very likely by the way), or the NCO's were lying to the officers, which may also be the case. I personally believe the breakdown of professionalism that led to this scandal is nothing less than an Army-wide epidemic. I saw it when I was at Ft. Bragg and other places. The Army began to die in the 60's, when mass conscription combined with lack of purpose to erode morale. The trend continued in the 70's, and peaked in the 80's, regardless of the threat of the Cold War, which everyone thought would be strictly nuclear, so many Army units lost their sense of self, and scandal piled on top of scandal, though the public rarely ever heard. When Peanut Jim turned the Army over to the liberals lock, stock, and barrel in the late 70's, he almost killed it. The old, hard-core professional soldiers started leaving in droves, especially with the new rule that you had to get promoted by a certain timeline or get out; this ensured that only those who met the PC test would remain, and those who were a little too "Army" for the Army had to go. By the time Komrade Klinton got into office, the Army had managed to recover some of its pride and dignity through several successful engagements under Regan and Bush the Elder, but Bill the idiot had to finish what Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter had begun; the destruction of the US military as the last bastion of traditional American values in the government. And so now we have Abu Ghraib. What bothers me about the who mess is not the fact that the prisoners were mistreated; I have no sympathy for them, but the looks of perverted glee on the faces of those who piled them naked into myramids is too much. It's one thing to soften someone up to make them more cooperative, but it's another to enjoy it so much. The Army won't be right until every Klintonite officer is purged and the old values brought back. Officers and NCO's used to get promoted based on their accomplishments and the respect of their peers and superiors, but now it's about promoting so many blacks, so many Asians, so many Hispanics, so many females, etc. ad nauseum. Maybe officers and NCO's should get promoted based strictly on their merit, rather than by some PC social engineering scheme. But hey, what do I know? I was just a soldier.

12 It will serve no purpose other than to keep the anger coming at our troops. You won't see pictures of 9/11 on the anniversary anymore, but keeping this story on the front burner for as long as possible is a necessity? Yeah, right, pull the other one.

13 Greg, we're talking about photos, not facts or whether any crimes committed are being tried in the courts. If one wants to provoke more outrage and more anti-American sentiment then the photos would serve that purpose well. I see no other reason to do so. We know the photos exist and those who have seen them say they are worse than what has been released. That is enough for me. Do I have to see them to believe it? No. In contrast, I don't hear the ACLU or those like you insisting that we air videos of beheadings to offset why things like this do indeed occur. I don't condone torture, but I think that we're beating a dead horse here. There are greater and lesser sins in this world and to continually emphasize the lesser while ignoring the greater is a sin in itself.

14 Actus, what I am saying is a judge can interpret the law any way he chooses.

15 Improbulus, I agree with your comment except on one point. Your argument that the decline in morality that the military has undergone is the exclusive fault of Democrats rings hollow. Oyster, It's this simple, if we are to continue living in a free society the government should stop pulling the wool over are heads.

16 our heads.

17 "Actus, what I am saying is a judge can interpret the law any way he chooses." So any result can be reached? I don't follow.

18 No, I think you do understand. Judicial interpretation by two judges with diametrically opposing ideological temperaments can very well result in opposite rulings.

19 "Judicial interpretation by two judges with diametrically opposing ideological temperaments can very well result in opposite rulings." In this situation?

20 I have an idea...maybe the soldiers can stop acting like children and photo-bragging stupid shit to save their lives? What they did was about as stupid as fucking someone's wife, taking pictures, then running the photos in the town paper and not expecting the husband to get pissed and react. Don't blame the Democrats or judges...they aren't the ones producing this garbage in the first place. What is it with Red Staters always trying to censor everything? It's so counterproductive...*BLEEP!*

21 Actus, In ANY situation. Why do you think the Democrats have tried so hard to block Bush's nominations? They want liberal rulings, the Republicans want conservative rulings and we just hope we can get the "correct" interpretaion of the law by our judges rather than legislation. Some situations need special consideration and to release these pictures to the ACLU of all people is a mistake.

22 The Libs pretent they're mad because Bush policies are making the world hate us. And then they sue to make photos public that will make the world hate us. See how full of shit they are.

23 Oyster: I think laws on release of government information are pretty clear. I don't think there's much wiggle room for interpretation.

24 Carlos, you're so full of shit, it's ASStounding! 1-It's not just "Libs" who are mad at Bush...why don't you try almost every moderate Republican with common sense, while you're at it? Nobody wants this idiot fucking up our country further...evidence is in the polls. 2-Most people don't take kindly to our government controlling and censoring and hiding information. Do you prefer being lied to or kept in the dark? 3-The world wouldn't hate us if we didn't do stupid shit in the first place. If you just don't like being held accountable for our soldier's actions then why don't you go tell them to stop distributing the evidence themselves!

25 "Most people don't take kindly to our government controlling and censoring and hiding information. Do you prefer being lied to or kept in the dark?"-Osama to Carlos Yes, he does. He loves slurping the sweet government popsicle and licking boot. He has devouted his life to the New American Fascism. He loves the Fuhrer. Sig Heil! Sig Heil! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWAA (Nazis cheering by the thousands).

26 Greg, we're talking about photos, not facts or whether any crimes committed are being tried in the courts. Oyster, How many sets of photos, reports, or any other story coming out of the prisons or the war have to be reported on before people will wake up and realize that our government and the administration are the real terrorists in this world. I feel sorry for the soldiers and their families, especially for the parents of Pat Tillman (you remember him, right?). It has become all too apparent our nation has been lied to. Why else would the government and military seek to keep things like these photos from us. Since Bush took (and I mean literally took) the presidency, reclassification of documents no matter how mundane or unrelated to the war, have been removed from public view and access. The last estimate I saw earlier this year was somewhere around 98 million documents. That's nearly three times the number Clinton, and Bush 1 did. Why? People of the world don't hate America because of a few photos, or because of Saddam in his underwear, or because of a small article in Newsweek. People of the world hate Americas leaders because they choose to attack innocents (Saddam not included)and provoke further suffering through might. Bush stands in the oval office and proclaims his belief in the preciousness of life, while at the same time ordering the total destruction of others lives (US soldiers included). Pat Tillman was praised as the epitomy of heros last year by many well known people. His name was in the press for weeks. Now that we know the truth about his death, where is the discussion? Where has everyone gone too? It should be apparent to all here that Pat Tillman was worth more to Bush dead that he was alive. Sean Hannity has been running a fundraiser for the kids of fallen soldiers to help pay for college. It's a nice jesture and one of the few things about Sean I find good. But what's going to happen the nearly 20,000 soldiers who are permanently disabled, many with kids, and will never be able to hold a decent job? Who's going to help them? I guarantee it won't be George W Bush. The more the evidence piles up, the harder people such as Rusty and others work to try and refute, divert and distract us from what's really going on. Even as we all read this site, Bush is harboring a known terrorist. Why? I love America and I respect the office of the president. I do not, however, respect people who lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want. This is what Bush really is. Him and his band of criminals deserve to be in prison. And if it was anyone else in the world doing what Bush is doing, prison is exactly what Rusty and others would be calling for. Why should it be any different for our own leaders whom we know have done wrong?

27 Damn, that couldn't have been put better. Once again, intelligence and common sense prevail where the red states fail... I would celebrate the day that Bush, Inc. is treated as they treat others. Maybe we could start by detaining them without rights, trial or representation indefinitely? Cheney would look great in one of those orange jumpsuits!

28 deccles, if you don't like people who lie - then why do you do it yourself? You've lied above about the coverup of Pat Tillman's death - which took place at the unit level not higher up as you slanderously imply. Your slander about the election is long since debunked. Basically, you are as full of false stories and fantasies as greg is.

29 Robin, Deccles didn't lie he kicked your puny ass and it was a Super Bowl blowout! Bravo Deccles.

30 (In the voice of Bevis and Butthead) "Yeah! Yeah! He kicked your ass! he he. he he..."

31 Robin, don't you have an election to rig/manipulate somewhere? It's not our fault that you can't actually WIN an election... The state of Washington's GOP needs your help!

32 All of the election fraud in 2004 was Democrat, terroristlover.

33 Robin you twat: So that's why every time a voting machine spit out extra numbers they were all for Bush, Inc. What fucking planet do you live on? I'm a "terrorist lover"? You're the fucking AMERICAN TALIBAN! Why don't you go put a burka on your winkie before you have any dirty thoughts...

34 Yeah! Finally this blog is overrun with anti-Americans and leftists. Only a ban flood can cure this. Start from me. I'm bored anyway.

35 I went looking for info on this judges senate confrimation. (my god the web is polluted with crap) Anyway I Found that Senate Republicans blocked this guys nomination for at least six months (short compared to some now). Well we ended up caving for whatever reason. We were holding him up by use of guess what??? A fillibuster Still want to change the rule??? anyone find any more on this guy. I'll spend the rest of my life digging through this mess. Just wonder what the final vote on his confirmation was and what deal got the fillibuster lifted.

36 Who wants to see pictures of naked Iraqie men in humiliating situations anyway? Perverse people with an Arab-fetish, that's who. Since there are only a few people in the world with that kind of mental illness (judge Alvin Hellerstein and the people who took the pictures), no one really WANTS or NEEDS to see them.

37 I do agree with IM about the reporting. I was in both the Army and Marine Corp, and both are anal about reports. Once again it could of been the company officiers failing to report up the chain or the Staff NCO trying to proctect the enlist from the stupid stuff the enlist was doing. As for releasing the photos, I am really divided. Part of me believe that they should be release to try and show we still have some integridy and we will punish those responisble. The other part of me believes that the photos will just cause more harm to our soldiers in the field. So in the end, I would probably go with protecting our soldiers now, and at a later time, come back and prosecute the personal later.

38 If showing the pictures is the "right" thing to do, why did all the networks quit showing the destruction of the towers caused by the animals impersonating humans? Why aren't all the pictures of all the be-headings, done to westerners, by the Islamic sub- humans shown on a regular basis, if ever. It's because that, no matter what the US military does, they are the bad guys, according to socialist, anti- American, ACLU wackos and the communist, America hating Clinton judges.

39 You on the far left just want more propaganda to jerk off to. I hope you enjoy getting buttfucked by Satin in hell!