June 17, 2005
Hot Topic: Jeb Bush continues to investigate Schiavo case
Rusty, I hope you don't mind my posting on this...
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Via AOL news, we learn that Jeb Bush has gotten a prosecutor to investigate the causes behind Terri Schiavo's collapse 15 years ago.
Gov. Jeb Bush said Friday that a prosecutor has agreed to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, citing an alleged time gap between when her husband found her and when he called 911.Bush said his request for the probe was not meant to suggest wrongdoing by Michael Schiavo.
''It's a significant question that during this ordeal was never brought up,'' Bush told reporters.
Michael Schiavo's attorney has said his client called for help right away.
In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, the governor said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m. on Feb. 25, 1990, and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.
Yeah, I'd say that's a disparity. Wouldn't you call 911 right away if you found your wife collapsed at that late hour? And why wasn't she in bed with him where she belonged?
Many questions still remain unanswered about this case, in my opinion. It'll be interesting to see what this prosecutor finds.
For the record, though, I'd also like to say that if this isn't an attempt on Jeb Bush's part to curry favor with the evangelical voters, I don't know what is. Too bad he didn't think of this before Terri died.
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1
WOW, you mean with only 11 years between his testimony, he gave a different timeline? -- this is a shocker, anyone have Columbo's cell#?
Posted by: dave at June 17, 2005 02:11 PM (fsJ2z)
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I hope Jeb picks up the sword himself, with support from Frist and Delay. As a matter of fact, I hope a federal law is passed mandating another look at this matter. Maybe Jeb can convince the Florida legislature to pass a state law, too. I hope the president rushes back from the ranch to sign emergency legislation.
Didn't we see this already? It would be embarrassing if it wasn't so grotesque.
Posted by: SLE at June 17, 2005 02:25 PM (hsrIx)
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Hey dave, clearly you're not Columbo. He TESTIFIED he found her at 5am. The 911 records show a 5:40am call. 40-minutes is quite a long time not to call for help, but I suppose you have more insight about this sort of thing than the rest of us - right? Right dave?
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 02:38 PM (adpJH)
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"Bush said his request for the probe was not meant to suggest wrongdoing by Michael Schiavo."
BS! They'd like nothing more than to charge Mr Schiavo with murder. What a waste of taxpayer money.
Posted by: greg at June 17, 2005 02:42 PM (/+dAV)
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no! no! no! Who let the riff-raff in?
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 02:44 PM (adpJH)
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Fishing, drinking, working in a great job at ~10$/h (400$ every week, kinda makes me think money is pretty darn pointless even more), sleeping, wasting time in the constant sunshine... Summer couldn't be any better. Oh yeah, in the army next summer. Might be invading some non-Europeborn country in the EU-"peacecorps" in late spring of 2007.
Could you put a humor article or two on the site? Depressing to read bad news when übersatisfied with my life.
Posted by: A Finn at June 17, 2005 02:47 PM (lGolT)
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by the way, i happen to agree with missing-neuroman that they would like to charge him... I just don't think it's a waste of money.
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 02:47 PM (adpJH)
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"BS! They'd like nothing more than to charge Mr Schiavo with murder. What a waste of taxpayer money."
Yeah! Why waste government money?! Private contract, anyone?
P.S. Now Greggie--you said you'd be good.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 17, 2005 02:49 PM (x+5JB)
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Hey Finn,
Take two of the following article and post in the morning:
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/002168.html
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 02:49 PM (adpJH)
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You gotta like the "In bed where she belongs" comment, although it didn't come from Jebs mouth you know he was thinking it. Geeze... Talk about beating the proverbeal dead horse.
Posted by: Tom at June 17, 2005 02:56 PM (92f6f)
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I really think Jeb isn't doing enough on this. I'd like to see Congress get involved too, and Jeb's brother. I'd like to see investigations, news coverage, the whole shebang. Page 1 coverage for the next 16 months. Pilgrimages to Florida, maybe a joint visit by the Pope and James Dobson.
Please, please keep it going
Posted by: SLE at June 17, 2005 03:08 PM (hsrIx)
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"Yeah, I'd say that's a disparity. Wouldn't you call 911 right away if you found your wife collapsed at that late hour? And why wasn't she in bed with him where she belonged? "
wow. wingers want the world in every family.
Posted by: actus at June 17, 2005 03:35 PM (UkIRz)
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I'll try YBP, I'll try. Scout's honor.
Posted by: greg at June 17, 2005 03:35 PM (/+dAV)
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There you guys are.....
Posted by: Howie at June 17, 2005 03:37 PM (D3+20)
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Editor: I agree! Charge him with murder! Why wait, they could charge him right now! Take him into custody! Quick! There has to be some prosecutor with the guts to do the right thing here!
Posted by: SLE at June 17, 2005 03:41 PM (hsrIx)
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Jeez, man, if you're a 28-year-old restaurant manager without a college education, and you find your wife collapsed, you figure she maybe fainted? 40 minutes is not an unreasonable amount of time to try and revive an unconscious person, or to call around for advice. As for why she wasn't in bed, peeing? midnight snack? There's an awful lot of information out there if you care to read it. They've already fully investigated (with lots of money to do so) about 90 allegations of abuse, and found nothing. The autopsy found nothing. Plainly, Bush is still looking for a reason to charge Michael Shaivo with abuse. Jesus. I think the man has suffered enough death threats and slander.
Posted by: Michael R at June 17, 2005 04:00 PM (7NWu1)
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Editor, you mean when he testified TWO YEARS after the event the first time genius?
"the governor said Michael Schiavo testified in a --> 1992 <-- medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m. on Feb. 25, --> 1990 --< "
Posted by: dave at June 17, 2005 04:10 PM (fsJ2z)
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I'm sorry... TESTIMONY knows only statute of limitations. 2-years? 2 friggin years? Your a f***ing idiot. Are you telling me his lawyers wouldn't have reviewed this kind of information knowing full well he'd have to be faced with it while on the stand? NOT. F***ING. LIKELY.
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 04:17 PM (adpJH)
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that's "you're a f***ing idiot"...
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 04:17 PM (adpJH)
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by the way, i'm sure you leftards are thinking, "Gawd - why don't they just pull the plug. Talk about killing 2 birds with one stone." Regarding this...
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050616/1a_cover16.art.htm
You sick f***s!
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 04:22 PM (adpJH)
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Yes, I'm sure you keep an acute timeline in your head for events two years in the past, I'm sure the first inclination he made when he found his wife on the floor was "I best go look at my clock and see what time it is, in case I get charged with a crime in the future" just like most people do.
The only static record for his event, came from a call he made, which doesn't come from his memory.
Posted by: dave at June 17, 2005 04:23 PM (fsJ2z)
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If he didn't recollect the time he had this option: "I don't quite recollect." Any more excuses you want to give him?
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 04:28 PM (adpJH)
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nope, let's go get the rope and hang him over the time difference of the record, he sure be guilty boss.
Posted by: dave at June 17, 2005 04:30 PM (fsJ2z)
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I've never concluded him to be guilty. You won't find that written by me, anywhere. I think the evidence deserves investigation.
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 04:33 PM (adpJH)
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By evidence, I hope you mean more than just his recollection of the time line.
Posted by: dave at June 17, 2005 04:40 PM (fsJ2z)
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Yes, like nurse testimony, etc.
Posted by: Editor at June 17, 2005 04:44 PM (adpJH)
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I am still amazed that protesters were arrested bringing water to Terry. I listened to her Priest give a homely on EWTN radio. He cried when he told of 3 police officers in TerryÂ’s room who would prevent anyone from bringing her water. He looked over to TerryÂ’s nightstand and saw a vase of flowers full of water.
Fr. Frank Pavone, national director of Priests for Life, said the autopsy does not change "the moral evaluation of what happened to Terri.
"Her physical injuries and disabilities never made her less of a person," said Fr. Pavone. "No amount of brain injury ever justifies denying a person proper humane care. That includes food and water.
"Terri did not die from an atrophied brain," he continued. "She died from an atrophy of compassion on the part of her estranged husband and those who helped him to have her deliberately killed."
"Terri Schiavo died because the court ordered the removal of the instrument that provided her water," said Wendy Wright, Concerned Women for America's senior policy director. "She was disabled, and her death was due to the deliberate denial of hydration.
"There is no medical condition or disability that should ever be championed as a justifiable reason to deny water to a human being" she continued. "Every human life has worth and a purpose apart from its merit to society that must be vigorously defended and upheld, not crushed."
Killed by a Judge who never saw her,and a husband who's vows ment nothing.
Posted by: Brad at June 17, 2005 05:08 PM (3OPZt)
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Are you talking about the nurse that came on TV saying that Micheal Schiavo was injecting him with insulin, but didn't have any proof? The DCF found no proof of it either?
Or did I miss some testimony?
Posted by: dave at June 17, 2005 05:19 PM (fsJ2z)
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"In bed where she belongs..." You mean like a child? Who is anyone to say where anyone belongs unless they are your own kids, and thats about it. This whole thing makes me sick. Do you not see the danger in having a governor who for nothing other than political purposes, can open an investigation on anyone he wants? Goddamn it and Im a Republican.
What the hell has happened to our party? All of the young Repubs of my generation who loved Reagan just wanted a return to Constitutional Government and thats what these guys all promised...Instead of the Libertarian utopia we were promised when our guys finally got to take the field we get these freakin fascistas who want to invide the lives of our families and morals.
Let the government stay the hell out of peoples personal lives! Jeb, sit the hell down! If local authorities didnt see a case 11 years ago and some new info has come to light, let them handle it. Who the hell are you? Or any of you for that matter to make judgements about peoples private lives?
Posted by: StoneGarden at June 17, 2005 05:29 PM (AO0/V)
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"Let the government stay the hell out of peoples personal lives."
Which means, people can do what they want without government interference? When did this ever occur in the country's history?
I priest friend once told me about a monastary/institution he visited as a young man, where the religious brothers took care of all manner of deformed humans "born of a woman." The priest said he was shocked. There was a pancake-like person--flat, but still with organs, , and eyes on the top--he thought it a "thing" at the original time--yet, it was the ministry of the friars to care for these people. They were still human beings, and regardless of what they looked like, or how much brain activity they posssesses, they were "born of a woman," and thus, deserved the dignity and respect any person does. Very sad.
Remember--we can call anyone a "vegetable," but that doesn't make them any less of a human being, and therefore, worthy of protection against the Utopians who want to brush them away because it makes them uncomfortable.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 17, 2005 07:04 PM (6ikIv)
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"Talk about beating the proverbeal dead horse."
Hey, it keeps attention off of trivial things, like the new Iranian revolution, Saudi terror pipelines, etc..
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 17, 2005 08:02 PM (0yYS2)
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Seems to me that this morphed away from the persecution of Michael Schiavo by the governor of Florida. I'd like to get back there. I say arrest Schiavo now, then investigate. Why wait? Can't the governor make a citizen's arrest? What is he waiting for? Get Dobson to do it if Jeb is chicken.
Posted by: SLE at June 17, 2005 08:04 PM (hsrIx)
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SLE: Chill out, sheesh.
Michael R said: "40 minutes is not an unreasonable amount of time to try and revive an unconscious person..."
Now, I don't know how long he waited or if he even did. Furthermore, I don't care, but THAT was the dumbest thing said in this whole thread. You'd let someone lay there for 40 minutes?
Posted by: Oyster at June 17, 2005 09:13 PM (YudAC)
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Yeah, IM...good idea. I think what's done is done. Personally, if my wife collapsed, I'd be faster as hell to get help. Though some people go into shock when confronted with such things, which is something to remember. I knew a girl in NYC who had a eating disorder similar to Shiavo's with the same result...once you mess up those synaptic connections through chemical imbalances, there isn't much you can do. It really fries things... This girl struggled for months then the family finally decided to let her go. It was such a shame to see a 24 year old beautiful woman die so young. I have complete confidence that her parents made the right decision, where with Shiavo it's such a toss-up with husband vs. family. It's hard to take sides when you don't know either through media distortion. I'll maintain my stance: it's a family matter, not to be intruded upon by our Congress, who should have a million better things to do for our country than exploit a tragedy for political reasons. Side note on that last one: unlike "Big Guy" and his crackpipe fantasies, there's actually proof on that last statement...sad as it is.
Posted by: osamabinsellin'tinfoil at June 17, 2005 11:20 PM (buka0)
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Oyster: you are right, sarcasm doesn't work very well. I was saddened to see that this didn't make the front page of the Washington Post. Haven't checked the Times yet, but I can only hope.
Posted by: SLE at June 18, 2005 05:55 AM (hsrIx)
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Well, it may the NYT editorial page, but not in the way I would have liked. No stirring call to action, dammit.
Posted by: SLE at June 18, 2005 05:59 AM (hsrIx)
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One final thing and I'll shut up. I never, ever, thought this would happen in America, where we have always protected the small, the weak, the underdog. If this had occured in Iraq people would be screaming bloody murder and using words like "barbaric" and "backward," and "uncivilized."
They beat their women over there? So? "It's a private family matter and no one should interfere."
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 18, 2005 06:55 AM (6ikIv)
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Osama: She didn't have an eating disorder. That's been determined by the medical examiner.
The real problem this brings up is the whole "advanced directive" thing. An AD gives one the opportunity to make a decision in advance whether or not they wish extreme measures to be taken to resuscitate them or keep them on machines or, in Schiavo's case a feeding tube.
If someone is determined as "no longer human" by doctors because extensive brain damage has destroyed that part of the brain that gives them consciousness or makes them human, then according to law, they don't have human rights as a normal person would. Texas already has such a law. It stands to reason then that an advanced directive, whereby they say they want to be kept alive, would be void. So, such a document is only beneficial to those who *don't* want to be resuscitated or kept alive.
Do I make any sense here?
Posted by: Oyster at June 18, 2005 08:14 AM (YudAC)
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StoneGarden:
'What the hell has happened to our party? All of the young Repubs of my generation who loved Reagan just wanted a return to Constitutional Government and thats what these guys all promised...Instead of the Libertarian utopia we were promised when our guys finally got to take the field we get these freakin fascistas who want to invide the lives of our families and morals.'
Amen brotha!
Posted by: greg at June 18, 2005 10:29 AM (/+dAV)
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"I am still amazed that protesters were arrested bringing water to Terry."
I'm amazed that people find it out of the ordinary that strangers in other people's hospital rooms get arrested.
Posted by: actus at June 18, 2005 11:06 AM (Ygl+x)
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A Hospital room that denies food and water to a patient when both are in plentiful supply?
Where the hell is this hospital, Auschwitz?
Posted by: Brad at June 18, 2005 12:31 PM (pO1tP)
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Oyster...you're making complete sense. I know what AD is. The only thing I'm confused about is you saying she had no eating disorder...is that from the recent released coroner's results? If so, then what was the cause of her demise?
Posted by: osamabeensellin'tinfoil at June 18, 2005 01:03 PM (buka0)
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While the ME corroborated certain facts, he finished with no conclusive evidence of why she collapsed and urged anyone with further information to come forward to help in a determination.
Posted by: Oyster at June 18, 2005 03:29 PM (YudAC)
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Actus: The people weren't in her hospital room. They were children, ages 10, 12, and 14 .
Posted by: Labosseuse at June 18, 2005 04:09 PM (Xjv2p)
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This whole thing has outraged me. People told me why am I surprised? Sh** like this happens every day, you just don't hear about it because the families are usually in agreement about pulling the plug.
In this case, it wasn't a plug....she wasn't being kept alive by a breathing machine. Hell, even Christopher Reeve couldn't do that, yet we kept HIM alive because his brain was functioning normally? Who the hell are WE to decide who lives and who dies? Create the perfect race, sounds a lot like what Hitler wanted...get rid of the sick, disabled, those without any purpose or function in life.
I feel sorry for the mentally and/or physically disabled who are left in institutions....are they going to deny them food or water next?
Schiavo sounds like Ted Kennedy, who also waited a while before he reported an accident.
I just don't think that a healthy 26 yr. old woman collapses for no apparent reason...was it ever confirmed exactly what it was? Brain aneurysm, stroke?? I know anorexia caused the death of singer Karen Carpenter many years ago, so who really knows?
And the Schindlers were denied hiring their own ME for the autopsy...why? Schiavo probably paid off the ME's he used so it wouldn't come out that he had a hand in it...literally. It was mentioned that he and Terri fought a lot and that she was going to leave him...they were arguing over a hair salon bill the night Terri tragically collapsed...something's not right in Denmark but we'll never know...
Posted by: Laura at June 18, 2005 05:33 PM (L3PPO)
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Labos: "Actus: The people weren't in her hospital room. They were children, ages 10, 12, and 14 . "
where were they going? into the hospital? I suppose after visiting hours?
Posted by: actus at June 19, 2005 08:24 AM (Ygl+x)
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The last thing I'll say on this matter.
Look, Terry's case was gone over with a fine-toothed comb by doctors, lawyers, cops, judges, and about a hundred other people who had no business in it. I think it's a really bad idea to try every case in the public forum, especially such cases as involve matter too high for the average person to comprehend, such as, oh I don't know, neurology.
On the one hand there was her husband who couldn't stand to see her like that any longer, and I sympathize. If my wife was in that state, I'd rather let her go, as she would with me, which we've discussed and agreed to. I think it's barbarous to keep someone alive in a state no more dignified than a houseplant. Michael Schiavo has been accused of all sorts of misdeeds by every armchair prosecutor across the country, including Terry's family, and neither medicine nor law have substantiated these outrageous and unfounded claims.
Now on the other side is Terry's family, who want to keep Terry alive based on unfounded hope that she might recover. Doctors give her an infinitessimally small chance of recovery, but that doesn't deter them. On their side is the Right to Life community, mostly Christians, who believe that only God has the right to take an innocent life. This movement startd as an anti-abortion group, and now decrees that we must all live forever and ever if medical science will allow it. Well folks, if there is a God, it looks like He has decided this case. besides, isn't it playing God to keep someone alive beyond reasonable expectation of recovery?
I can only speak for myself, and I will say that I can only hope to be allowed to die with dignity if I cannot live with dignity, and existing as nothing more consequential than a houseplant is hardly life, and is certainly void of dignity. Also, as an aside, why is it people who believe in a heavenly afterlife are so afraid of death? I'm an atheist myself, and have no opinion on death one way or another, except that I know I won't have to pay taxes anymore, so it can't be all bad, but if I did believe in some wonderful paradise waiting for me, I think I'd not want anyone to delay me on the way there. Would you?
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 19, 2005 11:31 AM (0yYS2)
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If terry's husband didnt want the responsibility of looking after her then he should have turned the responsibility over to her parents after all they are the people who gave her life. If he had done that years ago instead of fighting against them they probably would have realised long ago she wasnt going to make it and let her die gracefully.
As a mother, hell any parent, any one of us would want the same for our children and no one would stop me protecting my children that man just did what he did through vindictivness and nothing more.
I do not judge him for wanting another life I hope never to be in his situation but if I had had enough of the situation I would gladly give the parents permission to try everything they could it would have did no harm!
Posted by: sparky at June 19, 2005 04:59 PM (F1nba)
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Damn IM...you hit the bull's eye on that one. I'm in the same boat.
Posted by: osamabeensellin'tinfoil at June 19, 2005 11:51 PM (buka0)
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Well IM, as you know I usually disagree with most of what you
say but this time, it was 100% great. You did hit the nail squarely
on the head. Bravo.
Posted by: Butch at June 20, 2005 07:58 AM (Gqhi9)
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Okay, I lied, I'll say one more thing in response to sparky:
"If terry's husband didnt want the responsibility of looking after her then he should have turned the responsibility over to her parents after all they are the people who gave her life."
I don't think he didn't want the responsibility, I think it's more a case of having to live with himself. If I was in his place, I couldn't sleep at night knowing that my wife was neither dead nor alive, and I don't think anyone who could tolerate that situation has a grip on reality. It is inhuman to keep someone's body alive like a science experiment when they have no chance of recover, and waiting for a God to fix her is simply delusional. Like I said, if there is a God, he closed the book on her a long time ago.
"If he had done that years ago instead of fighting against them they probably would have realised long ago she wasnt going to make it and let her die gracefully."
No, they wouldn't have. You can't honestly support that assertion becase their actions show that they were completely out of touch with reality.
"As a mother, hell any parent, any one of us would want the same for our children and no one would stop me protecting my children that man just did what he did through vindictivness and nothing more."
Now you're just projecting and speculating. How do you know his mind? Did God tell you?
"I do not judge him for wanting another life I hope never to be in his situation but if I had had enough of the situation I would gladly give the parents permission to try everything they could it would have did no harm!"
Yes, you are judging him, and you're speculating again on what he wanted. Tell you what, how about you, and I, and everyone else stay the hell out of other peoples' business? I hate how people love to insert themselves into other peoples' lives whether they're wanted or not. I hope when I go there aren't a bunch of fanatics around who want to hook me up to machines to keep me alive "just because". Like I said before, when I can no longer live with dignity, I hope for nothing more than to be able to die with dignity.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 12:25 PM (0yYS2)
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All right enough asshole. You won, she is dead!
Stop dancing on her grave like some fucking wide receiver who just scored his first TD.
I thought it was just Muslims on the hit list, but you like this killing shit you sick fuck.
FYI, TerryÂ’s parents and real family asked members of our parish to help save her life.
A life that was being preserved by he unusual “Science Experiment” of giving the body food and water.
I hate it when people who donÂ’t know shit want to allow the government to go into a hospital room and deny a helpless woman food and water. It is the ultimate abuse of Government.
Posted by: Brad at June 20, 2005 01:11 PM (3OPZt)
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Excuse me Brad,
But from what I have read, there was not dancing around on Terry. I believe everyone on this post has given Terry the utmost respect. As for TerryÂ’s parents wanting to help save her life, it was 15 years to late for that. The prayers Terry received at the time before her death, would be as useful as praying for her resurrection now. Could God have come down and healed her, yes. Could God come down and resurrect her, yes. Did he or will he, no.
As for the ultimate abuse, you are wrong. The ultimate abuse is when they break their own laws to impose their believes. (Providences of State and Federal rights).
Now for the part about denying her food and water, as I said in a different post, no one denied her anything. All she had to do was ask, and food and water would have been provided. She was return to her natural state, and God decided on the outcome, not man
with his machines.
Posted by: Butch at June 20, 2005 02:09 PM (Gqhi9)
54
Okay, I'll say ONE more thing:
It's been brought up that if God had intended Terri to live, He would have, by some miracle, accomplished it.
Who are we to say how God needs to operate? His instituted Body, the R.C, Church, spoke on the matter. That should have been enough.
As theologians know, there is God's absolute will, where He does intercede in human affairs--such as performing a miracle--and God's permissive will, where He let's things happen. The fact that this thing happened does not mean He would not have prefered the human race pass the test of decency and feed Terri.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 22, 2005 06:11 AM (S2zYk)
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YBP, I know you'll probably hate me for saying this... I think she was meant to live if she could wake up and feed herself.
Posted by: osamabeenvotin' at June 22, 2005 11:43 AM (CYGDF)
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Osama: We could say that about a lot of invalids. Where do you draw the line?
And I don't hate anyone.
Except rap artists.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 22, 2005 12:13 PM (x+5JB)
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