1 It really was just a stunt. The man who started this, John Murtha, was mostly trying to show that the Dems weren't afraid to act upon their words. Noone actually believed it would pass. Unfortunately, this is already backfiring big-time for the Dems, because it shows that the best that they can do to back up their words is misguided stunts.

2 Vote came about too fast (evil GOP). Dems didn't have time to conduct polling and focus groups let alone put wet finger in the air to see which way the wind blows. Dems left with finger still up butt. Expect new Dem strategy in future - no more yes/no votes want muliple choice or at least partial credit for moving finger.

3 "Why? Why did so many Democrats just whizz all over their anti-war base? " that was a GOP cut and run bill, not part of the anti-war base.

4 Actus, The Democrats had a chance to vote for a withdrawal from Iraq. It's not the GOP's fault that they didn't have the balls to 'vote their conscience'. I wish the bastards had voted the way they truly feel, so I would know where the SOB that represents me stands on the issue. It's like getting blood out of a turnip getting him to commit one way or the other.

5 Yep, it was nothing more than an exercise in cowardice, twice over. First, to support running away is cowardice, (for which people used to be executed or exiled in the good old days), and second, they were gutless cowards to not vote how they really wanted to. Too scared to go forward, too scared to go back; they'll just hang at the knees of patriots, impeding their efforts at progress. Then again, impediment and ultimate failure may be their actual long term goal, which is what I feel is most likely. They are a party of traitors and should be made to pay as traitors.

6 >>>Yep, it was nothing more than an exercise in cowardice, twice over. Yup, cowards, both times. For wanting to cut and run, and for not having the balls to admit it publicly. That's the Democrat party for you. (But they'll vote for the analizers and infanticizers, no problem).

7 Hondo: That was truly beautiful. From CNN: "Democrats claimed Republicans were changing the meaning of Murtha's withdrawal proposal." Bull hockey. Will someone please explain to me how a vote to phase a "cut and run over six months" and a vote to "cut and run now" are any different? Either way it'll take six months - at least. Try getting 150 or 160K troops, with all the equipment, home in one day or even a week. No can do. And the childish behavior of the democrats during the debate was embarrassing.

8 Let me see: A democrat Murtha speaks his mind, then republicans are so enamored of his speech that they hold a vote on it. Democrats cry foul in the language used and vote against it. Republicans call democrats wimps for voting with them. Has the House of Representatives been outsourced to KinderCare? (Will somebody please let me know when its "Opposite Day" so I can participate, too?)

9 'Zactly, Dale. Except for the part about the republicans being enamored. They weren't. The closest thing to this was Charlie Rangel's sonsorship of a bill last year to reinstitute the draft. The republicans said, "Oh really? Well let's vote on it right damn now." Of course it was overwhelmingly shot down. I think there were 2 or 3 votes "for" it. And Charlie himself voted "against". And then bitterly complained about republicans forcing the issue. I'm going to have to get myself a wheelbarrow to carry my bottom jaw around with me. It keeps hitting the floor.

10 Gee guys & gals: Wow! You mean we shouldn't listen and place the future of our country in the hands of Murtha, Cindy Sheehan, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Charles Rangle and John Kerry. Gee Whiz! I wonder why???????????

11 I know why the dhimmicraps voted no; they don't want us to pull out while we're winning. They're hoping that Syria and Iran will come to their rescue and fight us Stalingrad style. We know which side are the Communists in their fevered dreams, and we know that they see American soldiers as Nazis, as they've repeated many times over. Liberals are all traitor scum and need to be killed.

12 More hateful aggressiveness towards the opposition..(sigh)... Communists were against God and pro-State worship; Liberals are against the State and pro-mankind development; Nazi's were against other ethnicities and pro-control; Conservatives are pro-Christianity and pro-business; Democrats are against organization and pro-goodness; Republicans are against disorganization and pro-America; I encourage a belief that we do not call for the killing of fellow Americans for what they believe; and instead call for the killing of people who kill others. Like terrorists. Thanks

13 What about killing people who support terrorists? Do we stop at the actual terrorists, or also target their supporters who give them encouragement? In criminal law, to have prior knowledge of a crime is conspiracy, to indirectly aid and abet that crime is accessory to the fact. Treason and sedition are actual crimes, because they support the enemy who would kill one's fellow citizens, so the traitor is a de facto enemy. If it's okay to kill the enemy, then why quibble over who held the gun and who was cheering the murderer on? Line 'em up in front of an open pit and give them one to the back of the head, because the black flag is the only thing traitors deserve or understand.

14 >>>"Democrats are pro-goodness; >>>"Liberals are against the State Dale, Democrats don't believe in "goodness" because they believe good and evil are merely social constructs that are illusory (that is what happens when you erase all memory of God and religion from the social sphere). And Libs love the state because you have to invent "goodness" (i.e., Leftist politics) out of wholecloth and use the power of the State (as opposed to God/religion/tradition) to impose that view on the masses-- even after you've convinced them there is no good and evil! It's a pretty sick and disgusting ideology you follow.

15 The gassing of the Kurds was a crime. Donald Rumsfeld was involved in providing the weapons and counseling that Saddam Hussein was given. Should Rumsfeld be held accountable for Saddams actions? I think not. Given your logic though, who should kill liberal traitors? You? The police? The military? Just anybody who thinks someone else may be a traitor for words they speak or words they wrote? When is it a crime and a capital offense in America to disagree with policy? The level of castigation and denigration that is taking place in America is appalling. "I may not be able to prove you are wrong, but I sure as heck can smear you so that others will have a low opinion of what you say." This is the current sickness of politics and the way it is being conducted. On a larger scale than ever before. If someone has a spoken and documented opinion, he/she can be assured that smearing will take place. I hope Improbulus will allow me to have a little fun at his expense. No disrespect intended. "Kill the traitors!" Improbulus said , "Kill them all until they are dead" The people then began to flail away at all the traitors they saw that day. “Kill the killers!” the banners read and “Do not stop until they are dead” People emptied into the street that day; mild mannered people began to beat away. Soldiers, policemen, criminals and politicians, all felt the wrath of ordinary citizens. “This is for killing my neighbors and friends; now we are truly making amends” “ Revenge is mine” muttered the mob, “I no longer wait for God” “If my government is justified to fight, any country whom we do not like, Then I, too, can wail away at any person who may kill in the USA to remove them preemptively, before they threaten, me or my family . I do not care about democracy, I care only about my own safety.” Thanks for listening.

16 Dale, This is a blog. This is where some people let off steam. Yes, arguments take place and the rhetoric is sometimes ramped up. But worse happens at DU, Kos, and Indymedia, and I have a feeling you haven't posted at those sites for them to ramp down the rhetoric aimed at the President and Republicans. Seems people like you have their blinders on when it comes to liberals, or should I say your own kind. So, remove that mote from your own eye before you criticize us for the splinter in ours. Just my thoughts. Oh, by the way, if you have gone over to any of the aforementioned sites and commented about their rhetoric, I will, of course, offer you an apology.

17 Jesusland Joe, I have only blogged a couple of times before and do more reading than participating. I apologize for any criticism that I made. I believed that I was more challenging of the premise rather than critical of the person. I am a mediocre person and have no special intelligence or knowledge but I try to understand others as best I can. I have voted Republican more times than Democrat and do not consider myself either. But there appears to be a need to determine if I am a liberal, or not, at this blog. I don't know DU orIndymedia so I will check them out. KOS is negative and has no good words that I have seen for anyone. They are just against everything, no respect for people or positions. They are most against people who take action to make change.