June 23, 2005
Chutzpah: Torturers at U.N. Accuse U.S. of Torture?
This is an outrage. Media reports say that four special representatives of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights have condemned the United States for alleged torture of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
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Need I remind you that the Chair of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights is Makarim Wibisono, of Indonesia. A guy from Indonesia is questioning our human rights record?
Other member countries of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights include (WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS IN LINKS):
Sudan
China
Congo
Cuba
Saudi Arabia
Zimbabwe
And these guys have the gall to call anything done at Guantanmo torture?
The actual report, found here, does not at any point actually formally accuse the U.S. of torture. Instead, the report says that the four requested a visit to Guantanamo Bay, and that:
Such requests were based on information, from reliable sources, of serious allegations of torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees, arbitrary detention, violations of their right to health and their due process rights. Many of these allegations have come to light through declassified Government documents.What the Commission condemns the U.S. for is non-cooperation in the investigation into abuse at Gitmo.
However, here is the AP headline via Charles Johnson: U.N. Uncovers Torture at Guantanamo Bay
The AP then reports:
The failure of the United States to respond is leading the experts to conclude that Washington has something to hide, said the specialist on torture, Manfred Nowak, a professor of international law in Vienna, Austria.So, the fact that there have been allegations means that these allegations are true, unless proven otherwise??"At a certain point, you have to take well-founded allegations as proven in the absence of a clear explanation by the government," he said, though he also noted: "We are not making a judgment if torture or treatment under degrading conditions has taken place."
That's logic for you.
And where are these allegations coming from? As far as I have been able to conclude, all of the allegations of 'torture' have come from freed prisoners from Gitmo. However, according to an al Qaeda training manual:
If captured, the manual states, "At the beginning of the trial ... the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by state security before the judge. Complain of mistreatment while in prison."As far as the alleged abuse that has come from declassified documents I know of no torture. What I do know of is harsh treatment that idiots on the Left have characterized as torture.
The specific allegations:
-detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor
-detainees who had defecated/urinated on themselves
-no air conditioning
-too much air conditioning
-loud music
Torture. Right. These are the allegations of torture that these clowns from the U.N. are taking seriously? While many of their own countries are engaged in genocidal pograms ans systematically torture prisoners??
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"So, the fact that there have been allegations means that these allegations are true, unless proven otherwise??"
That's the moonbat way. Guilty until proven innocent, unless you are a left leaning org. After all, the UN and Kofi are innocent in the OFF scandel. But Bush is guilty in respect to the DSM's until he proves his innocence. I have had a running, well, can't say discussion, more like deegenerative argument, with a lefty for weeks on this.
I wonder if I can sue my landlords for torture cause my ac has crapped out a few times? Or because it has a hard time keeping up with the sun on those really hot Carolina days?
Like it is hotter in G'itmo then Afghanistan in the summer. Jeez. Bunch of wackos.
Heck, you never know, maybe some of those terrorits are into peeing on themselves and scat.
Posted by: William Teach at June 23, 2005 02:20 PM (HxpPK)
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I hear the 'hot karl' is a big thing with the Afghani swingers.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at June 23, 2005 02:37 PM (JQjhA)
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Pentagon sued by U.S. soldier over Gitmo beating
Would you believe an American soldier?
Comment: If they're doing this to their own people, just imagine what they're doing to the Muslims.
“An American soldier who was seriously beaten when he posed as a foreign detainee during a training drill at Guantanamo is suing the Pentagon for $15 million.
Special Sean Baker was medically retired from the military after he suffered a traumatic brain injury in January 2003.
The 38-year-old military policeman (MP) was assaulted after he volunteered to wear an orange jumpsuit and portray an uncooperative detainee. Baker said his fellow MPs, who were told that he was an unruly detainee who had assaulted an American sergeant, severely beat him -- leaving him with seizures, blackouts, headaches, insomnia and psychological problems.”
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/gtmo_pentagon_sued_over_gtmo_beating.htm
Posted by: greg at June 23, 2005 03:18 PM (/+dAV)
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Sounds like they are trying to turn the GITMO torture issue (no issue, unless you believe reading the Koran all day to be torture) into a situation similar to Iraq circa 2002. They are trying to claim were not letting UN inspectors in, so that they can turn Bush's and Powell's arguments to UN on Iraq on their heads. Look for:
"BushHilter McChimpburton attacked Iraq because they claimed Iraq had WMD and was hiding it from the UN inspectors. Now the US wants to hide torture abuses from the UN inspectors. Rove is a hypocrit." Except in a more diplomatic way from people like Robert Mugabe and Fidel Castro.
Sadly, more people will die in the most inhumane ways in Sudan, China, Congo, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and Zimbabwe then will have died from US bombs or in US custody at Gitmo in the period of 2003 to present.
Posted by: Leland at June 23, 2005 03:19 PM (kZVsz)
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January 2003. Hmm. Refresh my memory, greg, but weren't those soldiers disciplined for that? The Taliban and AL Queda would have applauded that type of action where it some of their soldiers doing that.
Furthermore, one case of people going to far is not a case of widespread torture.
Posted by: William Teach at June 23, 2005 03:23 PM (HxpPK)
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William,
I have dozens of examples but y'all seem to want to keep your head in the sand on this issue.
I offered the present example because it happened to AN AMERICAN SOLDIER. I don't know if the soldiers who committed the offense were disciplined or not, but Sean Baker is suing the Pentagon over the incident.
Please stop pretending that torture isn't occurring.
Posted by: greg at June 23, 2005 03:46 PM (/+dAV)
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Here is some koran torture for you.
Awaiting fatwa.
http://psyopsvsislam.blogspot.com/
Posted by: psyopsvsislam at June 23, 2005 04:00 PM (AcDxM)
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I guess we donÂ’t need any lectures from the Chineese.
Any idea why these people were killed?
Posted by: Brad at June 23, 2005 04:04 PM (3OPZt)
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Greg, who's pretending? After reading your link, you have to admit that the source is rather dubious at best. Al-Jihad is hardly what I would call a credible source.
Now, Greg, have you asked yourself why this came up all of a sudden. I can tell you why. The jihadis see who their allies are in the US and the West, and they are the lefties like you.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what they do to the bastards down there in Gitmo. By letting them live, the US has already done more than required by the Geneva Convention. Are these people wearing the uniform of the military of any country? NO!!!!!! Then they are violating the Geneva Conventions.
Next thing you'll say is that you're worried about our troops. Baloney! You people on the left have always hated the military, and you only say you love the troops when it gains you an advantage. I know how you really feel because I used to be one of you prior to 9-11. So don't try to lie!
You also say you are concerned about human rights, but you overlook genocide, the modern slave trade, and the worst kind of debauchery and human rights abuse, as long as they are perpetuated by your friends the Islamists.
Oh, and about that question of torture, you disgust me. Your friends in Iraq, you know, the "freedom fighters", are exempted by you and your buddies. Beheadings, butchery of the worst kind, mutilation, and every other dispicable rotteness are ignored by you.
Why? You only mention any of this because you want the US to lose the War on Terror. You see, because I was one of you, I know exactly what you are up to, regardless of what you say. You lefties think you can use the jihadies, after all, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
There was a Europian once who had those same thoughts. He wanted to use the Moslems to further his ambitions. Countless millions of Europians were slaughtered and carried off into slavery as a result of his actions. You people really should read a little history.
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 23, 2005 04:14 PM (DDXXI)
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I fail to see how what was done to those folks at G'itmo was torture, Greg. And I fail to understand why you and so many on the Left take the side of the very people who would be more then happy to slit your throat. They train to kill you, Greg. That is what they live, and die, for.
These people live better then the Martha Stewart did when she was in the pen. Face it. The only reason that you and the left have your panties in a wad is because this is happening while Bush is President. Had Kerry won, you would be saying "screw them. They want to kill Americans."
Posted by: William Teach at June 23, 2005 04:28 PM (HxpPK)
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Willliam and Jesus,
You don't know a damn thing about me. I'm a Libertarian Catholic.
You can both go fuck yourselves!
And now I shall say 3 Our Fathers and two Hail Marys.
Posted by: greg at June 23, 2005 04:33 PM (/+dAV)
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Oh dear God! I just told Jesus to fuck off. See you both in hell.
Posted by: greg at June 23, 2005 04:34 PM (/+dAV)
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Oh Dear God!
I just told Jesus to fuck off. I'll see you both in hell.
Posted by: greg at June 23, 2005 04:40 PM (/+dAV)
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Hardly a libertarian, Greg, and I'm beginning to wonder about the Catholic part, too. Oh, by the way, I'm pretty sure that if you get your way the jihadis will have an ultimatum for you.
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 23, 2005 04:42 PM (DDXXI)
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In china you can be sentenced to death for credit card fraud, drug trafficking & publishing pornography. Just to name a few of the dicer reasons you can take a bullet, just so you know what that young terrified female could have been sentenced to death for. Also need I remind you about the case of the wrongfully executed Chinese man?
http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/chinadn/en/2005/04/deathpenalty_de.php <-- here it is.
Posted by: Andre at June 23, 2005 04:47 PM (mfvPa)
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Jesusland,
You're a phony Christian.
A culture of life means no abortion, no death penalty and no war.
Now go back to your puny religion and handle the snakes.
Posted by: greg at June 23, 2005 04:48 PM (/+dAV)
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brad, read above, you can get a death sentence in china for what in the US would be deamed a minor crime if not at all. Drug offences trafficking or possessing enough drugs to garner the death penalty would be 1.1kg or more of Heorine in China for example. Credit Card Fraud and Publishing pornography. Who knows, that young chinese female might have published a nude picture of herself hoping to find a horny western guy to get her out of China only to end up finding out the western guy was a Chinese government agent. I'll print that page out and ask the Chinese teacher at my local college what those words on that sign ment. Maybe he'll enlighten me.
Posted by: Andre at June 23, 2005 04:51 PM (mfvPa)
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Greg, I never claimed to be a Christian. Are you a complete idiot? Jesusland is only a geographic location. It says nothing about my beliefs.
But obviously, I nailed your sorry ass! You're a worthless lefty, you hate our country and our troops, and if you're not careful you may end up like that guy in Arizona that Michelle Malkin printed an obit on. Sweet dreams, sicko!
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 23, 2005 05:06 PM (DDXXI)
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Andre,
Thanks for the info.
Those photos are gruesome. They put charges of torture in perspective.
Posted by: Brad at June 23, 2005 05:13 PM (3OPZt)
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Most Asian countries have the death penalty for drug related crimes, distribution and trafficking. For instance, Singapore and the Philippines both have the death penalty for having 15 or more grams of heorine on your person. That is considered a death penalty offence. The latter country, 15 grams or more of cocaine, extasy, meth (shabu) or anyother drug other than marijuana is a death sentence, but inorder to recieve the death sentence for marijuana you need to have 500 grams or more of it, which is just over a pound of Marijuana. Needless to say, asian countries are very strict over these matters and you must if you travel to them, travel light. Don't take a mess of suitcases that are out of your hand, just a travel bag with a enough clothes to last you the trip. There is good reason for this, also never hold someone elses suitcases for them chances are they know they're busted and are trying to make a quick get away leaving you with the goods.
Posted by: Andre at June 23, 2005 05:29 PM (mfvPa)
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"A culture of life means no abortion, no death penalty and no war."
Yes, no, it depends.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 23, 2005 06:35 PM (4EClc)
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Goddamned DSM is a tortutrus piece of garbacge to read - I will find you!
Posted by: BUSH LIES - SOLDIERS DIE at June 23, 2005 06:55 PM (7k8zX)
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Culture of life doesn't mean culture of being a doormat or a living target for others agression.
Posted by: Andre at June 23, 2005 07:07 PM (mfvPa)
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Getting a little wound up, aren't we Greg? Did I strike a nerve?
You may be going to Hell, but I won't be seeing you there. But, on your way there, make sure you insert something sharp where the sun don't shine.
And go blow yourself while you're at it, asswipe
Posted by: William Teach at June 23, 2005 07:17 PM (TFSHk)
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first off, how freakin sickening it is to have some of the worst human rights abusers of all time have the fucking nerve to call the USA a counrty that tortures prisoners...and yes i said PRISONERS....terrorist PRISONERS....not soldiers....PRISONERS...and not even AMERICAN BORN PRISONERS....fucking FORIEGN TERRORIST PRISONERS...they DO NOT have the AMERICAN constitution on their sides, they werent born in the US, so why the fuck should they have the rights of myself and 275 million or so American born people....if i went to another country, say, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhm Saudia Arabia, and broke a law there, say, ohhhhhhh, terrorism, what laws would i be able to hide behind???.....none, because in a foriegn country, if i break their laws, i should be punished by their laws....im not a citizen of their country...its not like i went in and ooops, i just spit on youre side walk, Mr Saudia...these clowns in Gitmo werent put there for fucking jay walking...they were caught in the process of being terrorists trying to kill American soldiers sent to Afghanistan to bring down one of the most abusive and oppresive regimes and free the Afghan citizens from that same abusive government....but of course some leftie mfers will say, oh but they are prisoners, so they have rights.....yea, maybe if they were caught robbing a bank, or sticking up some liquor store, by the cops, than yea, they have some rights to a lawyer and a trial by peers....but, oops, nope they were captured in the act of committing terrorism against American troops, captured by American troops in a foriegn country and sent to an American camp set up to hold said prisoners...sorry, no rights to a lawyer or a trial by peers....lemme, see here, were German, Japanese, Italian troops captured during WWII given lawyers to try and set them free????...were they given trials in civilian courts???....gee, if i remember correctly they were held till AFTER the war was over, gee, some of them were even sent to the USA to work on farms picking crops and such.....golly gee, maybe those dirty, stinky, murderous Muslim terrorists should be put to work as well....oh no!!!!....thats abuse and torture!!!!!...horrors!!!!...you stinking, leftist, terrorist apologists should be praying to what ever god you pray to that these FORIEGN TERRORISTS are in a prison, and not out romaing free trying to think of a way to kill YOU....fucking bunch of idiots....do us all a favor, next time will ya???....put youre heads between youre legs and fart and blow out youre rotten brains....you make me sick, you ANTI-American spineless puke bags
Posted by: THANOS35 at June 23, 2005 07:24 PM (kDAye)
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TANOS35: You have entered my rwalm and along with GFREYROSTER I will find youi
Posted by: BUSH LIES - SOLDIERS DIE at June 23, 2005 07:52 PM (7k8zX)
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bablefish can partly translate the text, though it sounds like bad english from someone who hasn't mastered the language yet. It gives you a general idea of what is being talked about. Use simplified chinese to english to get the best results.
Posted by: Andre at June 23, 2005 07:52 PM (mfvPa)
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Come on Thanos, quit holding back. Tell us how you really feel.
P.S. to all: Greg is actually one of Karl Rove's minions.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 23, 2005 07:54 PM (0yYS2)
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Nah, IM: Rove is smarter than that...maybe he IS Greg!! What a better way to unify the ranks? Greg can post once and everyone in here gets all hot and bothered for the rest of the thread! Though, I think this "Bush Lies" guy might be stealing Greg's bandwidth. We need to teach him to use spell check.
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 23, 2005 08:32 PM (CYGDF)
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>>>"U.N. Uncovers Torture at Guantanamo Bay."
It's not supposed to be Club Med. Torture them a little bit, that's fine with me.
Posted by: Carlos at June 23, 2005 08:42 PM (8e/V4)
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Where's DowningStreetMemo? I thought he would have chimed in by now to verbally slap his little pal and give us another of his Shakespearian shticks.
Maybe I can fill in for him. Okay, since you insist:
"Yes! You are all feeding with wanton abandon from the trough of swill and debauchery laid there by your Rebublican overlords. And Bush-Lies, you little twit, you're stealing my thunder!"
This "bush-lies" guy is killin me. I really should make sure I'm not sipping on anything when I happen upon his comments. Root beer really hurts when it comes out of your nose.
Posted by: Oyster at June 23, 2005 08:57 PM (YudAC)
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Torture is listening to the same liberal America hating pricks say the same bullshit over and over on every issue.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 08:57 PM (CBNGy)
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They are so sad, aren't they? I like bringing up Clinton. Then, if something good happened, they will give Clinton all the credit, and the GOP none. If something bad happened, the opposite. It is fun watching a segment of the population go insane. Would be more fun if they weren't f*cking our country up while they do it.
Posted by: William Teach at June 23, 2005 09:04 PM (HxpPK)
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Greyrooster: Maybe Bush-Lies will issue a fatwa on you. That could be fun. Rusty would be sooooo jealous!
Posted by: Oyster at June 23, 2005 09:09 PM (YudAC)
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Can't we just torture them a little bit?
Posted by: Carlos at June 23, 2005 10:16 PM (8e/V4)
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I want all the enemies of my country to issue a fatwa on me. I've already issued one on them.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 11:24 PM (CBNGy)
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rooster,
you still haven't told us where the fuck you've been. Where the hell were you?
Posted by: Carlos at June 23, 2005 11:33 PM (8e/V4)
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KLANOOOTSTER has been beatingg chikensa
Posted by: BUSH LIES - SOLDIERS DIE at June 24, 2005 01:44 AM (FV4oJ)
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Welcome back, Rooster.
Posted by: REMF at June 24, 2005 05:10 AM (FNPrU)
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Jesusland:Â’Greg, I never claimed to be a Christian. Are you a complete idiot? Jesusland is only a geographic location. It says nothing about my beliefs. Sweet dreams, sicko!Â’
I knew you weren't a Christian, you bloodlusting fuck. I've got something sweet for your mouth.
Posted by: greg at June 24, 2005 08:34 AM (/+dAV)
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William Teach:'make sure you insert something sharp where the sun don't shine.'
Why donÂ’t you go impale yourself on some Cock!
Posted by: greg at June 24, 2005 08:36 AM (/+dAV)
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>>>"Why donÂ’t you go impale yourself on some Cock!"
LMAO!
you gotta love the "new" greg!
Posted by: Carlos at June 24, 2005 09:39 AM (8e/V4)
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Greg,
If anyone in Western Europe can view those photos above and still favor China over the US so be it. It may be interesting to people like Finn and other Europeans to know that I and many many other Americans do not care what Europe thinks of our country.
The idea that our policy in Iraq can or should be changed because of European opinion is ridiculous. We have to win this conflict, to get out of it. The argument about whether or not we should be there should be over, even for someone with your beliefs. I think you agreed with me before that we couldnÂ’t just leave. Why canÂ’t you support the effort to win this thing as a way to bring our troops home.
General John Abizaid recently said, “I’ve never seen the lack of confidence greater. When my soldiers say to me and ask me the question of whether or not they’ve got the support of the American People, that worries me. And they’re starting to do that”
A withdrawal from Iraq at this time would be a catastrophe for the people of Iraq. Why do you insist on nipping at the heals of the troops who have to complete this job?
Posted by: Brad at June 24, 2005 09:44 AM (pO1tP)
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I thought it was just a clever soundbite, but now I have to agree:
"Get the U.S. out of the U.N. and the U.N. out of the U.S."
Maybe we'll let the world come back to the table when they grow up.
Posted by: Son Of The Godfather at June 24, 2005 09:47 AM (maXzk)
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Brad:'We have to win this conflict, to get out of it. A withdrawal from Iraq at this time would be a catastrophe for the people of Iraq. Why do you insist on nipping at the heals of the troops who have to complete this job?'
I'm not nipping at the heals of the troops, I'm nipping at the heals of the generals.
We can't win this conflict in the next decade. But we can train the Iraqis to fight their own war. Iraq is a Welfare state. They can't exist on their own. People on Welfare stay on Welfare until it is snatched away from them. Unless we give the Iraqis a withdrawal deadline, they're going to keep dragging their feet. One year would be a generous offer in my view. But Greg, the terrorists will just go underground and wait for a year for us to leave. Good! Let them go undergroung, when they pop their heads up, they'll encounter a competent Iraqi army and police force.
It's their problem, not ours.
Posted by: greg at June 24, 2005 10:00 AM (/+dAV)
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Greg, you better not be offering anything sweet or otherwise to me. After all, us JimmyJoeBob's know how to gut or filet fish or anything else that comes our way.
That would be very dangerous for you. In other words, don't fuck with a redneck, little boy! Now, go suck your mama's tit.
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 24, 2005 10:30 AM (DDXXI)
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Greg: Already making new friends, I see.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at June 24, 2005 10:35 AM (x+5JB)
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Jesusland,
Go suck your daddy's dick and don't be surprised if it tastes like your sister's pussy and your brother''s ass. You inbred,12 fingered, banjo pickin', pig sqealing, redneck fuck!
Posted by: greg at June 24, 2005 10:41 AM (/+dAV)
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I unilaterally withdraw all of my comments on this string.
Posted by: greg at June 24, 2005 10:57 AM (/+dAV)
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Bush Lies-Soldiers Die....one, learn how to spell before you try and insult me, you idiot...two, bring it on, zipperhead, ill fucking annihilate you....only two people im afraid of on this planet and you are not eithe one of them, fuckhead...so why dont you go and do i like i said in my first post...do all the planet a big favor, put youre head between youre legs, fart, and blow out youre rotten, non-spelling brain...thank you, fucker
Posted by: THANOS35 at June 24, 2005 03:07 PM (kDAye)
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Greg, you're a real "wit".
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 24, 2005 03:27 PM (DDXXI)
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What bush lies-soldiers die obliously doesn't understand is that certain people may take his treats seriously. Some of us believe in striking first. In fact some of us have the ability to find him in less than an hour. He hasn't as yet been perceived as nothing more than a teenaged jokester. Regardless of his age. But he should be careful not to get on the wrong list.
In this day and age when some people side with the terrorists intent on destroying the United States lists are make of them first. Just in case. There are some in Texas that I know exactly where they live and work. Also where they used to work. Also one that doesn't work. also one that is a total liar when describing the property he owns.
Also one that only uses the computer on his tax supported job.
So young man, continue to have fun. But be careful you are not grouped with the traitors. Be careful.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 24, 2005 07:51 PM (CBNGy)
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Mr. Klansman and Thumbtanos:
If you want to deal with BUSH's LIES, have fun. That fat-ass desert-dweller is a lowlife punk who needs an ass-whipping. Don't insult me while you're doing it, nitwads, or you'll be disciplined too.
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at June 26, 2005 02:32 AM (ScqM8)
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When and where? Leaving for Vegas Tuesday. Will be at Binion's for 9 days. Just ask table assigner for the Greyrooster. I love being disciplined. It's been so long.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 26, 2005 05:21 PM (/rKIG)
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