December 05, 2005

Atheists Protest Memorial Crosses

(Salt Lake City) American Atheists Inc. has filed suit in U.S. District Court to remove highway crosses placed to memorialize Utah Highway Patrol troopers who have died in the line of duty. The crosses stand about 12 feet high and display the trooper's name and the Utah Highway Patrol emblem (example). They are placed near the location where the troopers were slain.

Specifically targeted by the lawsuit are Col. Scott Duncan, superintendent of the UHP; John Njord, executive director of the Utah Department of Transportation; D'Arcy Dixon Pignanelli, executive director of the Department of Administrative Services; and F. Keith Stepan, state facilities director.

The plaintiffs are Stephen Clark, Michael Rivers, Richard Andrews and American Atheists Inc.

From the Salt Lake Tribune:

Rivers said the purpose of the suit is to eliminate religious symbols used by government agencies and placed on government land. American Atheists claim to have a membership of 30 million people. They are not opposed to memorials, just the crosses.

"We feel the department of transportation, by allowing the Utah Highway Patrol Association to pick a religious symbol is unfair. We think it should be totally secular with no religious theme," Rivers said. "[The cross] is a Christian religious symbol. People will look at those and automatically assume that religion is a part of it."

Supporters of the memorials stated that the families of the fallen would be devastated and the legacies of the slain troopers would be tarnished if the crosses were removed. According to Sgt. Todd Royce, past president of the Utah Highway Patrol Association, the crosses are no different from those at other government memorial sites, such as Arlington National Cemetery.

American Atheists Inc. is asking for $1 in damages and the removal of all crosses on government property. I believe a blind person can see what the atheists are aiming for. Logically, it's the removal of all crosses at veterans' cemeteries throughout the nation. American Atheists also wants the court to rule that it's unconstitutional to display the highway patrol insignia on a cross.

Companion post at Interested-Participant.

Posted by: Mike Pechar at 03:48 AM | Comments (23) | Add Comment
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1 What is it with these assholes? They're not real atheists, they're damned communists.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at December 05, 2005 05:17 AM (0yYS2)

2 Agent Smith says that there are enough crosses to bear without having Big Brother Sam to do it too.

Posted by: Agent Smith at December 05, 2005 05:33 AM (qLtuI)

3 I could accept that 30 million Americans are a combination of atheist, non-religious and agnostic. But think about it. Every single one of them would have to be a member of American Atheists Inc. That's a bit hard to swallow. I guess if you're not afraid of going to hell then lying is a bit easier, eh?

Posted by: Oyster at December 05, 2005 05:48 AM (YudAC)

4 Agents Smith, Brown and Jones were WRONG and now correct the geographical error. The "Sunni Triangle" has one point in Baghdad, one point in Tikrit, and one point in Ramadi. Agent Brown, smarting from Agent Smith's recent smack on the head, now reports that the Sunni Triangle is populated mostly with Sunnis. The region includes beautiful Lake Tharthar, Fallujeah, Jabbaneah, Balad and Samarra. Teeming with insurgents and Improbulus Maximus' fiery mix of goatboys and knifeboys, the area tends to revolt on a minute-by-minute basis. Agent Jones, also smarting, reports that the "Triangle of Death" is the small and nasty zone south of Baghdad, with a mixed Denton, Texas-style of Sunni/Shia population with light industry, agriculture and plenty of trouble.

Posted by: Agent Smith at December 05, 2005 06:12 AM (qLtuI)

5 While I don't agree with the use of permanent roadside memorials, this lawsuit, like all the others is an utter waste of time. These people are pissed because the cross was chosen for the memorial. Could it be that a cross was chosen because the slain officers were Christian? Afterall, one usually doesn't find a cross at a Jewish memorial, or a star of David at a Christian memorial. The atheists fail to understand that for those of us who believe in a higher authority, religion is a big part of life and subsequently death. Therefore any rememberance of a deceased person will usually involve religious symbology. It has nothing to do with the government advocating the religion. There are far bigger and more important things in this world to be offended about.

Posted by: Graeme at December 05, 2005 06:24 AM (vwDwF)

6 The crosses are there to symbolise the religion of the dead person, not to show the religion of the state or it's inhabitants. i could understand the family of say a Jewish patrolman bringing a lawsuit if they were told they had to have a cross, but it's really nothing to do with the AA.

Posted by: Mrs Aginoth at December 05, 2005 07:15 AM (cZrVc)

7 Leftists are assholes.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at December 05, 2005 07:28 AM (8e/V4)

8 I'm telling you dudes, we need a Religious Heritage Amendment to the Constitution. Just one amendment that says "The display of religious symbols by the United States or any state shall be permitted and shall not constitute an establishment of religion under the First Amendment." Shut up Michael Newdow and the ACLU once and for all.

Posted by: V the K at December 05, 2005 07:58 AM (wEYaf)

9 Im am getting tired of these atheists forcing themselves on us throught their stupid lawsuits what gives them the right to force their nonbeliefs on others? why dont they just quit being such a bunch of jerks and learn to tolerate what us conservative christians beleive

Posted by: sandpiper at December 05, 2005 09:27 AM (b1Fi6)

10 On the face of it this sounds all silly and stupid. I'm not even going to bother. There are a few libs and leftists floating around this board - so - come forward and explain, rationalize and defend this. I don't get it! What's the beef! What's the argument! These are your buddies - other than "possibly" the 12' high I can't possibly see what problem is.

Posted by: hondo at December 05, 2005 09:58 AM (3aakz)

11 "There are a few libs and leftists floating around this board" yeah, I guess that might be me, but I can't help here. as an athiest & mostly liberal I wouldn't want a 12' cross as a memerial personally, but I don't have a problem with others doing it Still I don't belong to any athiests groups either - whats the point? Atheism is not a religion, we don't have very much in common most of the time.

Posted by: Mrs Aginoth at December 05, 2005 10:11 AM (cZrVc)

12 Nobody has any right to force their beliefs on others, and we don't need a new amendment to enumerate that, because; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, (not establishing a religion, as many with an agenda would have you believe), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Regarding the memorial crosses, as long as it's not done with tax money, then why should I care? I shouldn't, and I don't, and so neither should anyone else, but these Marxist liberals are trying to purge religion from the public square, (again, as long as no taxpayer money is involved, I don't really care who puts up a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn), and they're trying to purge it from the minds and lives of employees of government, and then from the lives of daily Americans. As everyone here probably knows, I'm an atheist, (orthodox, not evangelical), but I'm an American first, a loyal citizen whose sole allegience is with my nation, and its laws. This means to me that I am obliged to accept, no, demand Liberty for others if I want Liberty for myself. See, I believe in the republican, rather than the democratic form of government, because only in a constitutional republic can the rights of minorities and the individual, (who is the smallest minority), be protected from the mob, whereas in a true democracy, only the mob enjoys protection through numerical superiority, and minorities and individuals get crushed. I'm also a libertarian because I believe that the role and scope of government must be limited so as not to intrude upon, or impede the daily lives of the people without actual need, and then only within Constitutional boundaries. The problem in America today is that everyone seems willing to disregard the Constitutional rights of others as long as they get their own agenda put into law, and so we have religious fanatics trying to interject their religious beliefs into the scientific education of children, among other efforts, and secular fanatics trying to intrude into all other aspects of education, politics, and life. The only thing that anyone isn't doing is following Constitutional principles, but rather both left and right are trying to destroy the Constitution piecemeal so that they can establish cultural and political dominance. What is happening now is no different in principle than Stalin's purges or the Nazi death camps, or any other event in human history, wherein one group tries to destroy another group because they hold different beliefs; we're just not stacking up the bodies. Yet.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at December 05, 2005 11:20 AM (0yYS2)

13 It is only tolerance if the queer, femist, latte sipping leftwing elitist diaper doper babies agree with it! The ACLU is nothing more than the Klan with law degrees. They scream 1st amendment on everything except anything Christian or any other religion(except Muslim).

Posted by: Andy Driggers at December 05, 2005 11:34 AM (tMU4W)

14 Know why that is Andy? It's because American evangelical Christianity is completely incompatible with Marxism, whereas islam is a perfect match, once allowances are made. The ACLU's original mission was to subvert the political, economic, and educational systems in order to pave the way for Marxism, and nothing has changed, except that now we're starting to fight back.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at December 05, 2005 12:29 PM (0yYS2)

15 did I mention Leftists are scumsucking assholes?

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at December 05, 2005 02:02 PM (BFbp8)

16 Yes you did, but still, it bears repeating as loudly and often as one cares to.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at December 05, 2005 03:32 PM (0yYS2)

17 Andy Driggers: We have many members with law degrees. Please do not mention my brothers in the same paragraph with the ACLU. We love this country and stick our necks out to preserve it.

Posted by: greyrooster at December 05, 2005 06:05 PM (9Dlss)

18 Anomaly detected... searching... KKK, Ku Klux Klan, a fringe American organisation noted for active hostility to Jews and Blacks. Agent Jones found the following on the ADL Archive: "Every group on the Klan's list serves as a scapegoat for individual Klansmen to explain and excuse their inability to succeed and advance in modern society." Agent Brown says that support of Israel and active Klan membership are mutually incompatible, with the exception of one strange man who jumps from closet to white robes and back again. Agent Smith sings, Mr. Anderson, you disappoint me.

Posted by: Agent Smith at December 06, 2005 06:10 AM (VX7Tm)

19 Christians only want religion(creationism) to be considered as an alternative "theory", which is what Darwinism is...to have equal status in the classroom. We do not force our beliefs on others.They have the right, and ability, to not listen. And, we want our rights to express our beliefs as we see fit. Atheists, agnostics, etc are not stopped from expressing themselves, yet they do not think we have the same privilige.

Posted by: Super Grammy at December 06, 2005 07:09 AM (o0pyU)

20 Protestants, Catholics and many religions and athetists (Soviet Union) all presecuted the Jewish people. This KKK member says it was a mistake and wrong. Therefore I try to correct that wrong and argue the point with the glorious members of the Klan. I have converted many brothers. The Jewish people should have been our allies. We made a grave mistake letting a few (for who knows why?) influence the Klan. Protestants, Catholics and the KKK know longer persecute Jewish people. While we admit our mistakes of the past. The Jews have never cried and asked for money like other groups claiming past persecution. I have a plan to send some of our young bucks to Israel for training. Our muscle. Their experience. Their money. An unbeatable combination. Look out Farrakhan. You could be in deep shit.

Posted by: greyrooster at December 06, 2005 05:56 PM (JHIKU)

21 One point greyrooster: Communism isn't atheistic, it's a religion unto itself. Now to Super Grammy, who said: "Christians only want religion(creationism) to be considered as an alternative "theory", which is what Darwinism is... to have equal status in the classroom." First, teaching creationism is fine. In church, that is, but not in public schools where kids need to learn things that have actual value in real life. See, creationism is not a science, nor is any part of it an actual theory, nor is it in any way based on real science, but rather it's religious ideology, and nothing more, and thus is fine for Sunday School, but not high school. To me, the desire to have religious dogma pushed on schoolkids is just a symptom of nothing more than a desire to proselytize without being honest enough to say so. "We do not force our beliefs on others." Sorry, but yes, you do. Wanna know how I know? I was once an evangelical Christian too, and I know you well. Forcing your beliefs on others is exactly what you want to do by trying to get creationism taught in schools. Hey, how about we teach black magic and necromancy as alternative theories too? "They have the right, and ability, to not listen." In which case they would fail the class. Don't pull that on me, I'm smarter than the average bear. "And, we want our rights to express our beliefs as we see fit." And you can in church, in public, on the internet, etc., and just the fact that you can't have your mythology taught as science in no way impedes your right to worship freely. But then, that isn't really all you want... "Atheists, agnostics, etc are not stopped from expressing themselves, yet they do not think we have the same privilige." So how do we express ourselves? Oh yeah, that's right; we rely on logic, reason, and scientific facts and firm theories, rather than magic, witchcraft, and absolutist indoctrination.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at December 06, 2005 07:45 PM (0yYS2)

22 The atheists are cold ,cold people and have no respect for our country or our people, they only want for themselves and nobody else.They make me sick.There is nothing wrong with the cross on our highways,its not about religion its how we chose to honor our men that died for us.So the athiests can go to hell and stay there because we dont need them or their opinions.

Posted by: lonesomedove91 at December 07, 2005 02:21 PM (VwQnU)

23 lonesomedove91: Are you grouping? Most athiests and agnostics feel that the cross is just fine. As usual the media makes big things out of little things. Example: The Cindy Sheehan bitch. One of 130 million women in this country and gets the attention on MSN.

Posted by: greyrooster at December 09, 2005 08:18 AM (SHEau)

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