mypetjawa v. 2.0 (beta) "<i>Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to ev

May 18, 2006

Scores of Taliban Killed in Heavy Fighting

(Kandahar, Afghanistan) In unusually heavy fighting yesterday in southeastern Afghanistan, the Taliban suffered appropriately heavy losses.

From ContraCostaTimes.com:

Some of the fiercest violence since the Taliban's ouster in 2001 erupted across southern Afghanistan, with militants battling U.S. and Canadian forces, detonating car bombs and attacking a small village. Up to 105 people were killed, officials said Thursday.
Much of the violence occurred in the southern provinces of Helmand and Kandahar, where thousands of extra NATO troops are scheduled to deploy this summer to counter an increasing number of attacks from a stubborn insurgency.
The Taliban death toll from fighting Wednesday night and Thursday ranged up to 87, U.S. and Afghan officials said. Also, 15 Afghan police officers, one American civilian, a Canadian soldier and an Afghan civilian were killed in the attacks.

The attacks are considered to be the largest by the Taliban since 2001 and, based upon media reports, I'd say the aggressors took it in the shorts.

Notably, the Afghan National Police (ANP) demonstrated its ability to make the Taliban flee during the attack on government headquarters in Musa Qala in Helmand province. According to British military spokesman, Capt. Drew Gibson, the British helped evacuate casualties and let the ANP forces do the fighting to prove their abilities. I'm happy to relate that their performance was assessed as admirable.

From Interested-Participant.

Posted by: Mike Pechar at 12:41 PM | Comments (31) | Add Comment
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1 That Canadian casualty was a female Captain, tough loss. Kevin

Posted by: Unclemeat at May 18, 2006 01:10 PM (9KbTL)

2 Even when the MSM reports positive news about the war on terror, they screw up (or slant) the details. This AP story makes it sound like additional NATO troops are being dispatched to counter a resurgent Taliban. BS. The NATO takeover from the US in the south of Afghanistan was planned and documented over a year ago, and is proceeding as scheduled. And the primary reason for the increased fighting in the south is a change in strategy by the coalition which kicked off with "Operation Mountain Lion" several weeks back, a series of offensives in the southern provinces designed to draw the Taliban out into open firefights, where they invariably get their martyrdoms conferred in large numbers.

Posted by: geobandy at May 18, 2006 03:10 PM (5jnES)

3 Wow, another tough military defeat for the leftards. I want to hear Murtha and other piece-O-shit traitors talk more about how we're losing.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 18, 2006 04:32 PM (0yYS2)

4 Does anybody else bother to use the links provided ? IM did you bother to read the whole article in the ContrCosta Times ? The Taliban attacked in a group of between 300 to 400. ummm Any cause for alarm in this ? Are the opposing forces stronger and more numerous than they were 2 years ago or one year ago ? Preliminary estimates so far this yearz point to still another record busting opium crop. IM in this type of conflict what do you think the best way of measuring "winning" or "losing" is ? A body count ?

Posted by: john Ryan at May 18, 2006 05:08 PM (TcoRJ)

5 300-400 apparently isn't enough. And yes we read the links provided. But just a little poking around on the net will reveal the information geobandy graciously provided, as the article so blatantly omits and you prefer to ignore. Articles like this are the result of "journalists" breaking news down into seemingly unrelated bits to make the bigger picture harder to see. -------------------------------- Wouldn't it be a great day when the radical Muslims in the Middle East start undermining their jihadi troops with defeatist attitudes, bad press and harping on their every misstep while marching in the streets with signs saying OsamaBinChimpyHitler? Oh wait ... that's our side.

Posted by: Oyster at May 18, 2006 06:43 PM (YudAC)

6 John, Just because you're a liberal, and thus a coward, and piss your pants at the mere thought of having to fight like a man, doesn't mean everyone else is. So what if they can cobble together three or four hundred? It just makes it easier to kill them. I'd like to see them get a few thousand together in one place so our guys can kill that many more. You liberals are just gutless, chickenshit cowards.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 19, 2006 04:56 AM (0yYS2)

7 A motion to extend Canada's deployment in Afghanistan barely passed 149 to 145 Wednesday night. The NDP ( near communist pro Castro anti America), Bloc Quebecois and most Liberals (anti American socialists), including key leadership candidates voted against it. ...Former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin was absent. The vote is a political victory for prime minister Stephen Harper, who can characterize the result as an indication of the will of Parliament, while exposing divisions within the Liberal ranks.

Posted by: Dave K at May 19, 2006 05:10 AM (YaR8u)

8 TBH- I can't beleave the Afghan resistance has gone on as long as it has. Incredible. The deaths reported however were not all Taliban. It started a day prior with US troops opening fire on a group of protestors throwing stones at the US Consolate's motorcade. One thing begot another and a riot broke out the following day. The appearance of the Taliban is was just thier attempts to take advantage of the situation. They fled when they were engaged and unfortunately during this chaos most of the rioters were assumed to be Taliban and probably shot on sight. To be blunt however, I really don't know how they would have been treated even if they were recognized to be simple enraged protestors. Thier law enforcement still opperates in a state of martial law. I am very curious to know what the Taliban was going after while the cat was away. Any details released as to thier various objectives?

Posted by: Calist at May 19, 2006 05:29 AM (dybt/)

9 Well IM I post under my real name and my address is 250 105th Street. If I am home my motorcycle will be parked out front. Perhaps you might consider posting under your real name. . Here is another link that says that although 40 Taliban were reported killed only 14 bodies were recovered. As I posted before, proper analysis can only be done in an absence of emotion. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=691678 IM as you probably are aware many people think that the worst insults that we can imagine are what we may think of as our own weaknesses.

Posted by: john ryan at May 19, 2006 09:23 AM (TcoRJ)

10 Hmmm. We kicked ass so bad in Vietnam and Somalia and are kicking ass so bad in Afghanistan and Iraq that we should immediately storm Iran!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 09:32 AM (FCC6c)

11 Typical MSM spin. We kick Taliban ass, and that's evidence we're losing the war.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 19, 2006 12:21 PM (8e/V4)

12 Carlos MSM has only one agenda.... that is profit. MSM is a multi multi billion dollar industry. As for kicking ass in Afghanistan The attack on the town of MusaQala by a force of 300-400 Taliban resulted in about an even number of confirmed dead on both sides. The Afghan government claimed to have killed another 25 Taliban but had no other bodies to show, My personal standard is How many weapons were recovered ? http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=691678 I am very skeptical of ANY news story coming from the mideast, especially so from Afghanistan. Journalists and aid workers can not go out into the countryside to find out what is really going on. I always try to follow as many links as I can to try to get a more complete story.

Posted by: john ryan at May 19, 2006 01:30 PM (TcoRJ)

13 John, you're a liberal, and are thus safe to post your specifics because we evil conservatives and libertarians don't stalk people. I honestly don't give a damn where you live, but I don't want any stupid leftards knowing where I live, because flayed corpses and heads on pikes have to be explaned to the authorities, and I just don't have the patience. Now please explain how killing the enemy is causing us to lose the war...

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 19, 2006 02:46 PM (0yYS2)

14 Isn't that Paris Hilton's address?

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 06:43 PM (FCC6c)

15 John Ryan: Have your muslim boyfriend use vaseline next time and it won't hurt so much. Thx for the address. I have some friends in the Bronx who will be by for your motorcycle. Second thought, its probably, a pink vespa.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 08:05 PM (AWtJU)

16 Hey Asshole: I just cross referenced your address. Your full of shit.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 08:08 PM (AWtJU)

17 Then it is Paris Hilton's address?

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 08:21 PM (FCC6c)

18 Poor greyroostdick ... he thought he had an al cheapo motorcycleo ....

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 08:24 PM (FCC6c)

19 Last gasp on who's.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 09:40 PM (AWtJU)

20 On mine, greydickroost!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 10:15 PM (FCC6c)

21 No the bike is black a 1983 BMW I have owned it since 1988. Google maps have areal nice pic of my apartment building try looking there. As for you having friends in the Bronx always happy to meeet new people. They can also find me at my favorite bar Tap a Keg on Broadway between 105th and 104th. When can I expect them ?

Posted by: john Ryan at May 19, 2006 10:46 PM (TcoRJ)

22 Grey-dick-roost? What the hell kind of putdown is that? It doesn't even make bad sense! You made me read that drivel? Dammit boy, you can do better than that.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 19, 2006 10:57 PM (0yYS2)

23 IM I can not explain to you whether we are winning the war .... or losing the war. I can point out what I see are misconceptions about how other people are reaching those conclusions. Such questions as are the enemy gaining strength or losing strength ? When a force of 300-400 attack and hold a town for 8 hours and leave behind 15 bofies I can not see this as a great victory against the Taliban.

Posted by: john Ryan at May 19, 2006 11:00 PM (TcoRJ)

24 just a little cock fight with greydickroost, IM, so butt out! Go pick your own fight!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 11:04 PM (FCC6c)

25 John, you need to read up on military strategy and tactics. Try Sun Tzu's Art of War, anything written by Vo Nguyen Giap, Mao's rehash of Art of War, and Clausewitz, if you can handle all the big words. There are lots of other good authors out there, so spend a little time learning about war before you talk about it. Here's a free lesson: Attacking an undefended town and holding it temporarily before getting beaten out of it can not be construed as a victory, or even a break-even, by any stretch of the imagination, no matter how badly you want the enemy to win. You're impressed by the fact that they could assemble three hundred terrorists to fight in one place at one time, and see it as a sure sign of victory, whereas our military sees three hundred enemies on the battlefield as a good day's hunting. People like you have never, do not now, and will never in the future win wars or protect civilization, or anyone for that matter, and your behavior is cowardly and unmanly, therefore your opinion doesn't matter. Larry, you went to a public school, didn't you? It shows.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 20, 2006 07:44 AM (0yYS2)

26 Wherever I went to school one thing I learned was to call the BS as I see it!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 20, 2006 08:56 AM (FCC6c)

27 >>>Carlos MSM has only one agenda.... that is profit. MSM is a multi multi billion dollar industry. john, on the contrary, there is little interference by the tychoons, and the Liberal editors and reporters have great leeway in their job as long as they still sell papers. Nine out of ten MSM reporters are self-described Liberals who went into journalism to "make the world a better place". Translated, they have an agenda and it's Leftwing. They try not to be too obvious about it, but they truly can't help themselves. Come election time, however, they stop pretending entirely. It's a truism among Republican strategists that the Dems have a built-in handicap of about 10-15 percentage points over the GOP because of this MSM slant. You'd have to be blind, or a Liberal, not to see it.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 20, 2006 06:49 PM (8e/V4)

28 You call BS as you see it huh? Must be hell avoiding mirrors like that if you want to get anything done in the day other than standing around yelling BULLSHIT!!!

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 21, 2006 07:55 AM (0yYS2)

29 Today Sunday Fox news is also reporting 9 killed in the big battle the one with 300-400 Taliban http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196360,00.html IM the town was defended. The attacking force seems to have lost 4-5 % If the Afghan government is seen by the inhabitants of that town as being unable to provide security then it will be a victory for the Taliban. Thank you for your reading suggestions Clausweitz seems a little for Afghanistan. My favorite precept in the Art of War was "Don't fight a battle you can not win"

Posted by: john Ryan at May 21, 2006 04:50 PM (sLN29)

30 The people of the United States have a choice in where they go for news. They have a choice in what newspapers to buy. Has anyone noticed a change in Fox's reporting of late (6 months) as the polls show what the feelings of the USA are in regards to the war ?

Posted by: john Ryan at May 21, 2006 04:56 PM (sLN29)

31 "...as the polls show what the feelings of the USA are in regards to the war ?" I wonder what the polls showed in Nazi Germany in the 30s? Is right and wrong determined by the simple virtue of numbers? Where is the reasoning that because more people are on one side than another, that the larger group is more equitable?

Posted by: Oyster at May 22, 2006 05:34 AM (YudAC)

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Censure Jack Murtha

The Left's favorite ex-Marine, Pennsylvania representative Jack Murtha, has decided that he is judge, jury, and executioner in the case of Marines accused of killing civilians in Iraq:

Rep. John Murtha, an influential Pennsylvania lawmaker and outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, said today Marines had Â“killed innocent civilians in cold bloodÂ” after allegedly responding to a roadside bomb ambush that killed a Marine during a patrol in Haditha, Iraq, Nov. 19.
Â“ItÂ’s much worse than was reported in Time magazine,Â” Murtha, a Democrat, former Marine colonel and Vietnam war veteran, told reporters on Capitol Hill.
Â“There was no firefight. There was no [bomb] that killed those innocent people,Â” Murtha explained, adding there were Â“about twice as manyÂ” Iraqis killed than Time had reported.

Ignoring centuries of American jurisprudence, Murtha has hopelessly prejudiced this case with his presumption of guilt. And Murtha has done this for one reason only, political gain. Murtha's reason for prejudging this case is his claim that the alleged crime was committed due to over-extension of the military.

Regardless of the outcome of Courts Martial investigating these Marines, Jack Murtha has exposed himself as a festering puswart on the buttocks of the House of Representatives.

Jack Murtha has abused his position as a US Representative and deserves censure by the House, at the very least. Murtha's past military service does not in any way excuse this gross misconduct.

Via Stop the ACLU.

Cross-posted at The Dread Pundit Bluto and Vince Aut Morire.

Posted by: Bluto at 12:39 PM | Comments (85) | Add Comment
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1 I think the guy is senile.

Posted by: Mike at May 18, 2006 12:49 PM (PJzqy)

2 Marines use words like Honor, Duty, Country, They believe in concepts like, Leave No Man Behind, Once a Marine Always a Marine, and Semper Fi. They stand and fight when others run and die. So, someone explain to me how this despicable man is not cursed loudly and publicly by every retired Marine

Posted by: The Curmudgeon at May 18, 2006 01:11 PM (jeBXX)

3 I think people arent calling Murtha dishonorable is because he is dealing with the facts. These still matter, even if you believe the flag is the cross and the president is a prophet. What Murtha is bringing up is the fact that these marines are in very harsh conditions on an ill fated mission based in lies who are going nuts and committing atrocities out of madness....MAI LAI sound familiar? See, Murtha knows blind obedience to authroity is not honorable and when your leaders come up corrupt it is vrtuous duty to fight the lies of totalitarianism. Remember, tehse kids you sent to hell have to come home, so they can date your daughters, and like the vietnam generation, be thrown away by society. commie

Posted by: commie at May 18, 2006 01:56 PM (1esPS)

4 Well Bluto one thing that you can say about Murtha is that he stands up and says them in public and does not hide in annonimity. I'd like to be present when YOU said those kind of things to HIS face.

Posted by: john Ryan at May 18, 2006 02:06 PM (TcoRJ)

5 You lefties need to stop looking at everything through a Vietnam-colored lense. Iraq and Vietnam are not the same war. Get over it. War is war and you will have some people "going nuts" due to combat stress. But any armed conflict will induce combat stress, no matter who sent the soldiers to war, or why they're fighting it! The soldiers who ALLEGEDLY killed innocent civilians may have been under stress, but if they had more integrity, morals, a conscience, whatever you want to call it, they wouldn't have committed such a crime. You see it's not the DOD's or the President's fault, nor is it failed policy. It is poor judgement and lack of morals that causes a person to kill innocent people. Deep down inside I bet liberals and Bush-haters just love it when something like this happens. All you little deranged liberals are sick hypocrites.

Posted by: Agent Meatball at May 18, 2006 02:06 PM (30FRH)

6 I love this neo-cons...Shit is fallin apart, can't get one thing right, corruption all over the place, lost count of how many millions wasted, gasoline up through the roof, legal abuses here and abroad, natural disasters mismanagement.... I lived under Spain's Franco dictatorship as a minor. A right wing, christian, hardcore fascist goverment (For God and Country)..,And I find funny as shit how little here in Amercia people ACTUALLY know what a facist goverment looks like... Starting to look a lot like on in this place.

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 18, 2006 02:37 PM (3T8kU)

7 And by the way, the Pentagon was the one that issue the initial report. Damn Comunist military!!! You can dress a monkey in silk, but it is still a monkey.

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 18, 2006 02:41 PM (3T8kU)

8 john ryan, Adolf Hitler stood up and said many things in public; this is not necessarily an admirable trait. As for myself saying things to people's faces, I have never shrunk from that, and taken and given lumps for it. I can guarantee you personally one thing. If you ever met me in person your internet braggadoccio would disappear in a stream of urine down your leg, and you would be quite polite.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 18, 2006 02:57 PM (RHG+K)

9 Citizen number whatever, did Franco's thugs remove part of your brain or something, or are you just senile?

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 18, 2006 02:59 PM (RHG+K)

10 John Murtha points out that marines have killed innocent Iraqi civilians, so of course the only thing we can do is censure John Murtha. God forbid we hold the murderers accountable, but let's punish the guy who tells us about it. "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil?" Consider yourself a criminal.

Posted by: miguel at May 18, 2006 03:08 PM (FOdjt)

11 It's all about you John. The men you voted to send to Iraq (remember John, you voted to send them ) probably counted on a little more from you. How about letting the facts come out and give them their day in court. You owe them at least that much John. They can't just run away when the wind blows in a different direction. They had to stay and deal with the hand you and the other Senators and Congressmen delt them. For you to bury these guys like this before trial or inquest makes me sick.

Posted by: Brad at May 18, 2006 03:32 PM (3OPZt)

12 Gee Bluto I keep thinking that pretty soon I might even get a personal invitation. I live in Manhattan on 105th street If I am home my bike is always parked out front And I am sure that you would find me polite, but I don't think your desire to see me urinate would be likely unless you were to follow me into the men's room.

Posted by: john Ryan at May 18, 2006 03:51 PM (TcoRJ)

13 miguel, nobody's against punishing marines for killing innocent civilians. I'm all in favor of it. What I find despicable is how you Libs use these occassions to tarnish our military and our country. You people are despicable, and so is Murtha. You don't give a flying fuck about human rights unless you can use it for your America hating agenda. Iraq has made that patently clear.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 03:55 PM (8e/V4)

14 I've never agreed with John Murtha (big time warhawk) but I've always had respect for the uniform and I've always found military men to be stand-up honest guys. Murtha is a former Marine Colonel so he speaks from a position of knowledge when making comments against our continued occupation of Iraq. What's it going to be Bluto? Support the troops, unless they contradict King George's propaganda machine (Murtha, Shinseki, the generals against Rumsfeld)?

Posted by: Jake at May 18, 2006 04:03 PM (TWAi3)

15 So... The the half-wits are on the prowl. John Ryan STFU You are an indolent little prick. Why don't you run along and watch some MTV. And as far as you assholes commie and citizen #6546546546 and any others I might have missed, STFU and please ESAD.

Posted by: jamsler at May 18, 2006 04:29 PM (VqA/E)

16 Just more proof that we have to kill them all sooner or later. Liberals are walking, talking pieces of shit and should be eradicated for the good of humanity.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 18, 2006 04:34 PM (0yYS2)

17 IM, I've heard you say that many times, but the events of the past few months are bringing me around to your way of thinking.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 05:01 PM (rUyw4)

18 In the Corp, there is always the 10% shit birds.

Posted by: Leatherneck at May 18, 2006 05:29 PM (D2g/j)

19 Hey, you should include the full quotation: "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them. And they killed innocent civilians in cold blood. That is what the report is going to tell." That last sentence is important.

Posted by: Juggler at May 18, 2006 06:12 PM (1I4e7)

20 JJ, Keep it up and we'll put you on the list too.

Posted by: Homeland Security at May 18, 2006 07:14 PM (q5wwn)

21 Whether you are for the Iraq War or not, that is not the question here. Murtha's remarks about Marines killing in cold blood is the most despicable use of an incident for political gain. If in fact when a report comes out that verifies his remarks, what gives him the right to inflame the populace by prematurly blurting this from his pulpit. If it is right or wrong to be in Iraq our elected officials still need to support our troops that are in harms way and not endanger them by remarks such as his.

Posted by: Big Treat at May 18, 2006 07:19 PM (SNkWV)

22 Buahahahahah.. These neo-cons are awesome...What else do you expect from these retards?...Reason, knowledge. No, of couse not. Nothing but threats ang calls for hanging, shooting, expelling, shitting and spetting on anyone or anything... Just like Franco's Falange's Youth. Ifreakingdentical. Probably a bunch of faggety neo-con geeks that have never served or face combat and probably spend their weekends playing soliders at their local militia.... Leatherneck: Yes there are. I should know. I served as a ranger in Fort Stuart (GA, for those of you neo-morons that can't read a map) back in the late 80's. I think actually the number is more like 20%. You can dress a monkey in silk, still a stupid fucking monkey.

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 18, 2006 07:35 PM (jZ6cC)

23 When I run and hide, I need secrets, many secrets. When I follow the money and the lies, I find you folks wishing another Bushie will put one up my backside. We will all get tired of it. Even you.

Posted by: Tom at May 18, 2006 07:37 PM (12pWd)

24 Let's see: Republicans control all three branches of government and in the past 5 years have accomplished absolutely nothing. So all you people do is blame Democrats, liberals, Clinton (either one), or the media. I used to consider myself conservative because I believe in fiscal responsibility, states rights over fed rights, smaller government and the preservation of civil liberties. Man, those days are over. "Those who trade security for liberty will neither receive or deserve either." Benjamin Franklin

Posted by: Jake at May 18, 2006 07:38 PM (cOXGQ)

25 Hmmm. Much flag waving here. I wonder what the response will be if the news were about some Middle Eastern soldiers storming into civilian homes and murdering them in cold blood just for being unfortunate enough to be within sight of the cruel murder of a comrade, OR Iraq back in it's un-invaded days and with an assasination attempt on a Bath party big wig and the subsequent round up of everyone within the vicinity of that attempt and a death sentence to them all male female and child execute immediately or later. I'm sure everybody that have spoken on behalf of the marines here will also excuse such crimes as acceptable in the special situation...... One mans meal is anothers' poison.....

Posted by: Wee Free at May 18, 2006 07:46 PM (JfWXC)

26 Jake: Well said man.

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 18, 2006 07:49 PM (jZ6cC)

27 To Jake and the other halfwits: innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land. Murtha does not have a right to abuse his position to say that these Marines are guilty. If they're convicted by Court Martial then he can go to town, but not before. Innocent until proven guilty is a pretty simple concept, but liberals only seem to advocate it when it suits their agenda. That's been amply proven in this thread.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 18, 2006 08:26 PM (RHG+K)

28 Wee Free: do you mean like on 9/11 (thought they weren't soldiers), or have you already forgotten that day?

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 18, 2006 08:28 PM (RHG+K)

29 Citizen#whatever, If you really were a ranger, I think you would recall the proper spelling of your duty post. It is spelled Fort STEWART, not Fort Stuart. Pretty sloppy of you not to remember the proper name of your post. Kinda makes YOU look like the neo-moron ya damned fascist.

Posted by: jaybear at May 18, 2006 08:30 PM (5gqp1)

30 Oh yeah, one more thing citizen #whatever....Since about 1975, the same year that Franco died and Juan Carlos assumed power in Spain, Fort STEWART has been home to the 24th ID. It is now home to the 3rd ID and support units. If you were a Ranger in the late 80's...then that would mean that you were born sometime in the late 60's right? towards the end of Franco's reign? right? you can dress an asshole in silk, but he'll still be full of shit

Posted by: jaybear at May 18, 2006 09:09 PM (5gqp1)

31 Jaybear: You caught me on a mispelling. Oh no, God forbid!! Shoooooot. Damn, I guess you won. You kidding me?.. That is the best you can do? Really? This is it?. This is the depth and width of your mind? Nah...C'mon there chief, you can do much better than that. Give it another shot. Seriously. But this time, no Truthiness. Give me some real threats, something really "neo-con-ish". you know, like the other cats in here. You kiddo you. You are special. Yes you are. yes you are. Hahahahaha

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 18, 2006 09:17 PM (jZ6cC)

32 This guy is awesome. Keep investigating dude. You are almost there. Hahahahahahaah.

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 18, 2006 09:24 PM (jZ6cC)

33 Not a misspelling citizen#traitor, an outright lie. So far you haven't refuted anything I've said....show some proof about your service sir, what was your pay grade? when was your discharge date? give the name of your unit... when did you live in Spain? looking forward to your next round of stuttering...or is it past your bedtime?

Posted by: jaybear at May 18, 2006 09:27 PM (5gqp1)

34 Murtha has really gone too far this time. Censure him is right. I mean, censue anybody that won't censure him. On one side, you have the tree huggers frothing at the mouth over some good old boys in a bad situation in a very bad place. Over thirty thousand murders of Iraqi citizens by US troops have been documented. Happens every day. Why raise a stink now? Liberal commies.

Posted by: David at May 18, 2006 09:45 PM (uS1Ao)

35 He will probibly get a offer from hollywood in a movie directed by ether MICHEAL MOORE or OLIVER STONE

Posted by: sandpiper at May 18, 2006 09:58 PM (as4nC)

36 >>> I find funny as shit how little here in Amercia people ACTUALLY know what a facist goverment looks like... Citizen, count yourself among those who don't know what a fascist government looks like. I lived in Pinochet's Chile for 5 years, AND I spent many of my childhood summers with relatives in Franco's Spain. Top that one you silly little clown. People like you that toss around the word 'fascism' like it was used cleanex are idiots. You insult the verey memory people who have been the real victims of fascism, including my family in Spain who at least one of them died fighting the fascists, as well as friends of my family in Chile, some of whom were tortured and exiled. You make me want to toss my cookies when you imply things about our government that you don't have th e sligthest clue about.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 10:09 PM (8e/V4)

37 Oh, and I forgot, I lived in Ecuador too for 3 years in the early 70s, also under a military dictatorship. Top that, asshole. I love it when ignoramus Libtards try to pull rank on how sophisticated and worldly they are. You are neither. You are legends in your own minds, and nothing more.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 10:13 PM (8e/V4)

38 If by censure, you all mean hang by the neck until dead, then I'm on board.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 19, 2006 04:58 AM (0yYS2)

39 Murtha led the Pentagon investigation you morons, and Time magazine agrees with the conclusion. He is a good man standing up for what he sees as a huge mistake. Google it for yourself, this is Imperialism at its worst, when will you stop blindly following your government? http://www.google.ca/search?q=+pentagon+marines+Haditha

Posted by: Canadian at May 19, 2006 05:05 AM (PjK9S)

40 From Jake: "I used to consider myself conservative because I believe in fiscal responsibility, states rights over fed rights, smaller government and the preservation of civil liberties. Man, those days are over." So now you're a liberal for these reasons? Those who favor big government, litigation, excessive regulation and higher taxes to pay for it all? That's how liberals define "fiscal responsibility" you know - high taxes to cover a multitude of sin. I'm confused. Because being a conservative STILL means all those things you mentioned above. And citizenwhatever: If things are so bad here, us being such fascists you know (you forgot to throw "nazi" in there), I hear that Franco's dead and Spain is no longer fascist. It might be a good time for you to move back. Since you're so miserable here and all.

Posted by: Oyster at May 19, 2006 05:46 AM (YudAC)

41 "If by censure, you all mean hang by the neck until dead, then I'm on board." Cool, a death threat on a Congressman. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

Posted by: Theo at May 19, 2006 07:22 AM (7AEHv)

42 So if you are at war how can making the war worse for your men help? How can inciting enemy hatred get them home faster? If Murtha sees a problem that's fine. He was sent to Washington to deal with problems. The people elected him to to so and look out for their interests. He has many options other than attacking our men in the press. It's political. He abdicated the best interests of the nation by using it politically. He can raise hell with the president and oversee the military justice process honorably but he did not. He is failing in his duty to his nation, it's soldiers and the people they protect. He works for al-Qaeda now.

Posted by: Howie at May 19, 2006 07:24 AM (D3+20)

43 >>>He should be beaten and tortured mercilessly by US Troops and then viciously slaughtered and his entrails dragged through the capitol. His children and all living family members should also be tortured and slaughtered. This man was always a coward and a traitor to the military and should get his just reward. Aashamed Patriot, how bout instead you just go back to Daily Kos where you came from. Notice Kos requires people to register to post, while here morons like you can just show up and pollute threads at your leisure.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 19, 2006 08:48 AM (8e/V4)

44 WoW, Innocent Civilians? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; IT IS A DUCK. If you are on a duck hunt monkey boy there are no innocent ducks.

Posted by: The Curmudgeon at May 19, 2006 08:50 AM (jeBXX)

45 So if Milosevic went to the hague for war crimes should Bush not be the next resident there. I hear there is a vacant cell? No, Bush will get a statue and these marines will be defended because they were under stress, which of course normally causes people to shoot children point blank!! But yes, go on attack Murtha for making sure the truth gets out, it was commanders in Iraq who fed him this news because they understand the stupidity of their presence there and want to bring their men home. The longer these wars go on the more often these types of atrocities happen, on both sides. And america still has yet to accomplish anything worthwhile in Iraq. .

Posted by: Yikes! at May 19, 2006 10:11 AM (hfa+w)

46 Yikes indeed. So you believe in the old English principle of guilty until proven innocent? And you believe that Iraq was better off under Saddam and that we should have passively waited for the next al Qaeda attack in America rather than providing them with a battleground in their own neighborhood? Typical Leftist pinhead.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 19, 2006 10:15 AM (RHG+K)

47 One small point: innocent until proven guilty is not binding on the speech of members of Congress, or anyone except those directly involved in the judicial system. Members of Congress give their opinions about ongoing legal proceedings with great regularity. For example, when Newt was in the minority, and a Democrat was under investigation. Or, when Susan Smith had just been accused of killing her children, and Newt blamed it on Democratic values. Or when Richard Nixon, in the middle of Manson's trial, told reporters Manson was guilty. Or, when Enron broke. The list is endless. So your point is: Murtha should be censured for...what exactly? speaking out on a tragic incident? OK...because the first amendment shouldn't apply to members of Congress. Time to rethink that, methinks.

Posted by: jd at May 19, 2006 10:28 AM (aqTJB)

48 "If you ever met me in person your internet braggadoccio would disappear in a stream of urine down your leg, and you would be quite polite." --Bluto "Citizen number whatever, did Franco's thugs remove part of your brain or something, or are you just senile?" --Bluto "To Jake and the other halfwits..." --Bluto "Typical Leftist pinhead." --Bluto Yes, you're clearly a polite, well-spoken, and fully competent individual with a number of well-defined, defensible positions that are strongly backed by fact and impressive debate tactics. I can't possibly imagine why anybody would ever disagree with you with such compelling and intelligent arguments presented in such an even-keeled and persuasive manner as these.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 19, 2006 11:31 AM (gOPcw)

49 Did you have the same opinion when Republicans in Congress were not exactly waiting to the end of the legal process in: Whitewater, filegate, travelgate, lewinskygate, the Espy investigation, the Cisneros investigation...(and it should be noted that in ALL of those investigations, not a single executive branch official was convicted of anything related to a Clinton administration job)? Or did you advocate the censuring of DeLay, Gingrich, Helms, Burton....etc etc.?

Posted by: jd at May 19, 2006 11:33 AM (aqTJB)

50 jd -- The past bad behavior of the republicans doesn't excuse the current bad behavior of a democrat. Murtha's comments were clearly designed in an emotional manner to create an outcry. If he'd merely stated the basic facts, that would be one thing, but he: 1. Politicized a tragedy. 2. Took on the role of Judge, Jury and Executioner before the military even had a chance to accuse and try anybody themselves. I imagine you criticized Bush - and rightly so - when he did similar things with 9/11, Katrina, etc. Now it's time to see if you can put your money where your mouth is and prove that you really are "better" than the blind Bush devotees. Murtha screwed up, so hold him accountable even though it means weakening "your party".

Posted by: TxMxP at May 19, 2006 11:47 AM (gOPcw)

51 Vote Yes to Censure Murtha I doubt it will happen. It should happen.

Posted by: Howie at May 19, 2006 11:57 AM (D3+20)

52 jd, are you kidding? Those were juicy stories! ;-) But then Murtha's talk is fodder for the enemy in a time of war. I wouldn't call for his censure, but I do think his motives stem from more than just patriotism or a concern for the troops. I do think he has a chip on his shoulder because his ideas were rejected by this administration. He's a proud man and now he picks his issues carefully for maximum impact, maybe too proud, and his speech about the troops "living hand to mouth" and being "broken" and "demoralized" was over the top. The vast majority of the troops denounce his assertions. The voters will speak when it's time for his re-election. If New Jersey constituents think he speaks well for them, then so be it. I personally wouldn't vote for him.

Posted by: Oyster at May 19, 2006 12:01 PM (QQzPp)

53 >>>Yes, you're clearly a polite, well-spoken, and fully competent individual with a number of well-defined, defensible positions that are strongly backed by fact and impressive debate tactics. You come hear to troll, and then you pretend outrage when you're told to fuck off. lol! Lefty orwellianism knows no bounds. Come hear with a respectful attitude to argue the issues, and you'll be treated respectfully. Otherwise kindly fuckoff.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 19, 2006 12:26 PM (8e/V4)

54 >>>>You come hear to troll, and then you pretend outrage when you're told to fuck off. lol! Lefty orwellianism knows no bounds. Come hear with a respectful attitude to argue the issues, and you'll be treated respectfully. Otherwise kindly fuckoff. Uh... huh. You quoted from my very first post, saying that it was "outrage" because somebody told me to "fuck off". How exactly does that work? I mean, how was I told to leave.... before I even got here? Are you saying that his place is full of psychics? Ignoring the fact that your post is complete nonsense and violates the most basic principles of spacetime physics, I wonder, exactly, what "respectful" means to a guy who's entire post revolves around profanity and political slurs? Considering that your idea of "respect" apparently involves insulting and cursing at other posters without any apparent provocation, you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss your complaints that I don't act "respectful" in your opinion.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 19, 2006 12:51 PM (gOPcw)

55 TxMxP, I'll chalk your comment up as just a lame attempt to be clever so as to avoid making a comment with any real substance. I've been doing this long enough to recognize nothing when I see it. But I'll try again. Did you get on Citizen's case for coming here and calling people "retards"? No, you ignored that but pretended offense when someone flamed him back. It's that simple. You'd have to be incredibly obtuse or retarded not to get it. It's happens all the time on this blog. Leftards come here with an attitude, and when they get attitude back that's supposed to prove what meanies rightwingers are. That's all you did. Orwell is rolling in his grave. Come here with a respectful attitude and discuss the issues-- not how "retarded" the "neocons" are-- and you'll be treated with repect. Otherwise, kindly fuckoff.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 19, 2006 01:14 PM (8e/V4)

56 Excellent point. Whereas I've called Bluto out for his insolent chest-thumping superiority complex and merely ignored Citizen for being generally abusive from the get-go, I should have done what everyone else did - which invited a truly mind-boggingly intelligent argument, but the way, kudos on your intellectual foray - and focused on the guy that was just trying to cause problems to begin with while holding Bluto up as an exemplary case of how to respond to disruptive forum posters. Yes, clearly, I just don't "get it" and you've shown me the light. Obviously, your tactic worked excellently and everybody here has benefited from the insight generated in the resulting melee. In the meantime, as your very first post in the thread was laced with profanity that hasn't stopped since, I have little interest in what you think is "respectful". You can lecture me on respect when you gain some. Until then, feel free to stop wasting both of our time. As you might have noticed if you weren't so busy slinging about arbitrary political labels to so desperately avoid anything approaching a competent, meaningful claim, I have an interest in discussing the actual issue at hand.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 19, 2006 01:33 PM (gOPcw)

57 TxMxP: either contribute something or go back to Kos. FYI, since this is MY thread, accusing me of insolence is a case of the pot calling the driven snow black.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 19, 2006 01:48 PM (RHG+K)

58 TxMxP, then I guess kindly fuckoff. You're a waste of time.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 19, 2006 01:57 PM (8e/V4)

59 I wasn't aware that insolence had become a relative term. Although, perhaps that justifies my prior observation that some people in these parts believe that profanity is what constitutes respectful behavior. Perhaps you would feel better if I additionally accused you of myopia, since you chose to completely ignore the post I made dealing specifically and only with the subject at hand - a post which nobody who continually demands discussion on the topic seems to want to acknowledge exists. I enjoy arguing with people who constantly expound about "liberals" and "leftists" in general, vague ways. They constantly sling accusations that are only valid because they choose to accept only a small portion of their reality as being real. The fact that two of you now have gleefully claimed that I haven't posted in relation to the actual topic when I've in fact made my position on Murtha's comments quite clearly known further justifies my opinion that a very large portion of what constitutes the vocal wing of the right-leaning politicos and pundits in this country are only interested in generating noise, insults, and threats, and have absolutely no interest in doing right by America in any sense of the word.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 19, 2006 01:59 PM (gOPcw)

60 >>>perhaps that justifies my prior observation that some people in these parts believe that profanity is what constitutes respectful behavior. TxMxP, that would make your prior observation an incredibly obtuse or retarded one. Because I don't see anywhere on this thread where someone said using profanity constitutes respectful behaviour. And yet you impute it to me (or Bluto). That makes you an intellectually dishonest retard. Profanity is clearly disrespectful. That's why people use it. Which is how you'll be treated if you come here with an attitude. I think that makes it the third time I say this. And still the retard doesn't get it.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 19, 2006 02:32 PM (8e/V4)

61 Hey Theo, kiss my ass then google some comments made by your fellow leftards about Bush, including implicit and explicit threats against him. Don't try that shit with me you idiot, because you're not smart enough to read my grocery list.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 19, 2006 02:48 PM (0yYS2)

62 ...the right-leaning politicos and pundits in this country are only interested in generating noise, insults, and threats,..." Did you just expound on right-leaning politicos and pundits in a vague, general way? Why yes. You did.

Posted by: Oyster at May 19, 2006 03:18 PM (QQzPp)

63 TxMxP: the regulars here know that I don't suffer fools gladly, especially when they repeat the same juvenile points over and over again. If you insist on being coddled, I'd suggest that you visit The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler. Emperor Misha is renowned for his patience with people like you. Be sure to tell him I sent you.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 19, 2006 03:52 PM (RHG+K)

64 >>Did you just expound on right-leaning politicos and pundits in a vague, general way? Why yes. You did. And I cite this board, LGF, Free Republic, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, and the entire Bush Administration as evidence to support my assertion. Feel free to cite the many pundits and blogs on the left who are equally as intellectually inferior as these groups if you'd care to assert the same about the left (though they're rarely as predisposed to violent rhetoric as the right-wingers, so at least they have that minor advantage). >>If you insist on being coddled, I'd suggest that you visit The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler. Emperor Misha is renowned for his patience with people like you. Be sure to tell him I sent you. In other words you have nothing intelligent to say about my comments regarding the topic, so you hope I go away so you don't have to continue to pretend you have something worthwhile to say. Fear not. I've gotten exactly the immature and unintelligent reaction I expected, so I have no more need to try and pretend that I think you could actually participate in a reasonable discussion. My point is sufficiently proven: you have no validation for your radical opinions and no interest in obtaining any, you just want an audience that will bite on your words without actually thinking about the content. You have, effectively, provided additional evidence for the ignorance of the radical right's opinions. So, for the time-being I'll be going and won't embarrass you any further.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 19, 2006 06:37 PM (ZNd6p)

65 Murtha is a traitor and an embarassment to all ex-Marines. He would not be welcome at any Marine function or ex-Marine celebration. We celebrate the Marine Corps birthday down here. Would love to see the prick show up after we had a few drinks.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 08:14 PM (AWtJU)

66 Dickweed pendejo Mr Jesusland Carlos "lived" under ..how many...? Three right wing dictatorships and now he is an ultra-conservative: Sounds to me like either probably was the son or family of one of these ex-military dictatorships assholes or just a very stupid wipe ass that obviously did not get enough the first three times. Ok Little Pinochetito... Hahahaha..These idiots get trolled and STILL keep answering... Buahahahahaha. Awesome.

Posted by: Citizen # 255883400882 at May 19, 2006 08:33 PM (jZ6cC)

67 poor TxMxP ... just couldn't go the distance!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 08:37 PM (FCC6c)

68 Citizen, I guess you didn't read my post. My family-- unlike yours-- ACTUALLY suffered under ACTUAL fascism-- not the "fascism" of your fevered moonbat deliriums where "Bush" is hitler and Amerikkka is "nazi." You have no real world experience with fascism because you are a fraud and a liar. Your little "Franco" story was supposed to lend you some gravitas but instead it just made you look like fradulent twit.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 20, 2006 01:35 AM (8e/V4)

69 This has been one of the funniest threads I've seen in a while. These leftards want to their posts to sound intelligent, profound, and witty, but they're just amusing, but not in a good way. What passes for intelligence nowadays is amazing; if we shifted the IQ scale to give every moonbat the genius quotient they think they have, say between 130 and 150, I'd be somewhere around 1000.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 20, 2006 07:49 AM (0yYS2)

70 "This has been one of the funniest threads I've seen in a while. These leftards want to their posts to sound intelligent, profound, and witty, but they're just amusing, but not in a good way. What passes for intelligence nowadays is amazing; if we shifted the IQ scale to give every moonbat the genius quotient they think they have, say between 130 and 150, I'd be somewhere around 1000." That's an awful lot of words you used to say "I sure hope passerby don't read the whole thread and realize what I fool posters on this site are".

Posted by: TxMxP at May 20, 2006 11:21 AM (ZNd6p)

71 The funny thing is the Pentagon just confirmed Murthas claims. They must be liberals too. This "blog" is telling, really a fount of psychological data of what comprises the hateful and ignorant among us. Thnak god these folks are the minority. I particularly like improbulus' threats, they exude impotence, a resentful pathetic man who howls his phony tough guy world on the web...too funny. Is improbulus the btk killer surfing the web from prison?....you get em dog catcher! commie I also find incredibly interesting the idea that we can ignore facts and replace them with terms like "moonbat". That makes a great argument.

Posted by: commie777 at May 20, 2006 01:08 PM (1esPS)

72 >>>I also find incredibly interesting the idea that we can ignore facts and replace them with terms like "moonbat". On the contrary, Leftardism is a kind of mental delusion where facts are irrelevant. That's why the term "moonbat" is factual. I don't use that term merely for people I disagree with. That term applies to Leftwingers so deluded by ideology as to be basically mentally ill. Someone who compares Franco's Spain to "Bush" and Amerikkka is mentally ill or so ignorant of the facts as to be no better than mentally ill. It goes WAY beyond mere disagreement. There's no other way to explain that kind of stupidity but mental illness. And that's why "moonbat" is factual.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 20, 2006 02:00 PM (8e/V4)

73 Careful, IM, you could really hurt yourself-- if you fell off your ego and landed on your IQ, you'd be going at terminal velocity.

Posted by: jd at May 20, 2006 02:50 PM (GZdxw)

74 Wow, we've all just witnessed the sum-total of all the brainpower of all leftardom expressed in a whimper rather than a bang. I hope you all enjoy your middle-school wit, because it's all you've got, and it won't do you much good very soon.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 20, 2006 07:40 PM (0yYS2)

75 >>I hope you all enjoy your middle-school wit, because it's all you've got, and it won't do you much good very soon. You're right. Since people like you have spent the last six years desperately trying to slander "the left" (where "left" is described best as "liberals, moderates, conservatives and, well, those who disagree with your personal views pretty much [which is ironic in this context since I agree that Murtha stepped well over the line]"), most of the country has realized that you have nothing to say about any actual issue, and they'll be voting in Democrats to shut you up. Granted, all this means is that the Democrats will eventually radicalize and become as silly and trite as you, but that's a few years off so I have time to transition over to embarassing them. See, maybe when you sit down, shut your mouth, and breifly engage your brain for the first time in six years, you'll realize that slinging around random, highly general insults in lieu of stating any actual positions doesn't play well to anyone outside your tiny little radicalized group. You may have managed to figure out how to use 'blogs' (congratulations, the extreme right has managed to become as intelligent as a typical MySpace user, you must be terribly proud), but the fact that those blogs reproduce like rabbits only serves to prove that you have very large mouths and nothing more. See, most of the country is moderate, and they have jobs, families, and social lives, so it's not that their relative lack of a voice is evidence that you have any sort of political control, it's just evidence that you have nothing worthwhile to do with your spare time.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 21, 2006 07:33 AM (ZNd6p)

76 Heh. What a fucking hypocritical moron you are TxMxP: ...slinging around random, highly general insults in lieu of stating any actual positions doesn't play well to anyone outside your tiny little radicalized group. You may have managed to figure out how to use 'blogs' (congratulations, the extreme right has managed to become as intelligent as a typical MySpace user, you must be terribly proud), but the fact that those blogs reproduce like rabbits only serves to prove that you have very large mouths and nothing more. Talking to yourself, idiot? Fuck you and every other liberal moron on the planet, and your muslim masters you piece of shit. The only thing I want to do with you and your kind is to watch until you stop kicking, and considering how fast society is falling apart and the government is losing control of the country because of political greed and corruption in both parties, I won't have long to wait. There'll be war in America soon, and your kind are gutless cowards, so enjoy your privileged life of blissful stupidity while you can, because the ride will be over soon, and your muslim friends will be strapping suicide vests on you, if we don't get you first. You're screwed, but then, you picked the team you wanted to play on.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 21, 2006 08:04 AM (0yYS2)

77 IM has nothing of substance to say except to repeat his kill the liberals and muslims mantra. Just a pesky waste of blog space.

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 21, 2006 09:21 AM (FCC6c)

78 >>Fuck you and every other liberal moron on the planet, and your muslim masters you piece of shit. My god, with such wit and wisdom it's no wonder that I feel so terribly overpowered by your intellectual capacities and wonderously persuasive decorum. >>There'll be war in America soon, and your kind are gutless cowards Typical. You know who else wants "war in America"? Osama bin Laden. What wonderful company you keep. >>...and considering how fast society is falling apart and the government is losing control of the country because of political greed and corruption in both parties... Oh, I absolutely agree. The difference is that I"m not a troglodyte and I believe in using the American system that our Founding Fathers (you do remember them occasionally, don't you?) gave us rather than acting like a chest-thumping, violent brigand to fix the problem. Which of us, is a coward, by the way? The guy who came in here and started slapping you all in the face for your insolent, violent sophistry, or the guy who's sitting here lashing out with violent threats in the comfort of longterm companions? The guy who's standing by the principles of true republican democracy, or the guy who's apparently of the belief that he can threaten his terrorist ideology into other people? You can't threaten me into radicalization, and that's the prime difference between you and I. When the towers fell, you wet your pants and started jumping at every shadow on every corner, and I, believing that the American way was perfectly capable of dealing with the threat without pandering to psychopathy, continued to think clearly and stand for what I beleived in. I'm sorry, but which one of us is the coward here? You're the kind of people that Oklahoma City bombings are made of. The only difference between you and "the muslims" is that at least the Muslims can say they're an invading force, whereas you're just a butcher trying to bring genocide to your own country. Good job.

Posted by: TxMxP at May 21, 2006 12:48 PM (ZNd6p)

79 These liberal fags must be all reading the some books. Last suck larry sounds just like fifteen before him.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 22, 2006 06:48 AM (J4a4p)

80 Feeble attempt at trying to match my screen-name put-down semantics, greydickroost! You got a ways to go ... Last suck Larry does not roll off the tongue the same way that greydickroost does. s does not fit in with L of Last and L of Larry. The u is out of cadence also. The c might work potentially and maybe the k. But you are faced with the sandwiching effect of the " ae " sound in Last and the " ah " sound in Larry. You're simply out of your league boy! Go back to your sandbox!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 22, 2006 12:20 PM (FCC6c)

81 The Not-So-United-States, eh.

Posted by: Fen at May 23, 2006 08:21 AM (RohNc)

82 81 comments let's make it 82.

Posted by: Howie at May 23, 2006 10:19 AM (D3+20)

83 okay! sounds good to me. ( and I woke up from a sound sleep for that! )

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 23, 2006 04:21 PM (FCC6c)

84 Ah! but last suck larry is closer to the truth.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 23, 2006 06:21 PM (BEvWK)

85 Goddamn, TxMxP just beat the living shit out of you people, you should ban him from this blog if you wish to continue under your false ideology based in fear. commie

Posted by: commie at May 26, 2006 01:42 PM (1esPS)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Yeah, Right. Pull the Other One.

The LA Times is really reaching today:

Cyndi Smallwood is looking for a few strong men for her landscaping company. Guys with no fear of a hot sun, who can shovel dirt all day long. She'll pay as much as $34 an hour.
She can't find them.
Maybe potential employees don't know about her tiny Riverside firm. Maybe the problem is Southern California's solid economy and low unemployment rate. Or maybe manual labor is something that many Americans couldn't dream of doing.

$34 an hour is nearly three times the starting base rate for a Transportation Security Administration airport sceener, yet somehow, the government managed to fill all of the screener positions - with US citizens - even in southern California. Somehow Cyndi can't find gardeners for three times the pay?

It seems that writer David Streitfeld hasn't considered one explanation for this anomaly. It's called lying.

Cross-posted at The Dread Pundit Bluto, Stop the ACLU, and Vince Aut Morire.

Posted by: Bluto at 10:44 AM | Comments (32) | Add Comment
Post contains 170 words, total size 1 kb.

1 I'm off to get my shovels, rakes and implements of destruction.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 10:50 AM (D3+20)

2 That's insane. She can't find workers at $34, when walmart is hiring at 6,7,8,9? Even around SCal, I bet they are hiring at 12, tops. What does 34 an hour annualize to? I'm with you on this one, DPB.

Posted by: jd at May 18, 2006 10:58 AM (aqTJB)

3 funny how I was also able to find an American small business willing to mow my law bi-weekly for fifty dollars a month, of course his price is kept lower due to the fact he has to compete against scores of Mexican work teams other landscaping companies are paying cash to as 'day' laborers. However if Americans were willing to pay the price for American labor, China wouldn't be exporting their cheap products in droves to the U.S now would they?

Posted by: davec at May 18, 2006 11:00 AM (CcXvt)

4 Yup, it's a lie. On the Laura Ingraham show one of her listeners tried applying for the job a couple of weeks ago, but he hasn't heard back from Ms. Smallwood yet.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 11:08 AM (8e/V4)

5 Dang accents, she was sayin' three-to-four dollars an hour, which was misinterpreted as thir-ty-four.

Posted by: Rodney Dill at May 18, 2006 11:49 AM (KXQxU)

6 That's somewhere around $70K annually. Liar Liar...

Posted by: Chris at May 18, 2006 12:05 PM (XCo9J)

7 obviously a typo

Posted by: john Ryan at May 18, 2006 12:36 PM (TcoRJ)

8 No, john ryan, not a typo. Read the story.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 18, 2006 01:25 PM (RHG+K)

9 Aside from the question whether all the purported facts in the article are true, if you don't think there are some jobs that Americans won't do, then you haven't lived in the Black community. As early as 1917, So Cal fruit growers went to the local Black communities to hire labor in the WWI labor shortage. They were told that Blacks were never going to do farm labor again. We have lived in the Black community a long time, and that attitude is still prevalent. Landscaping isn't farming, but its similar enough so that you won't get Blacks applying for those jobs. Now, how about Latinos. Here the answer is simple, I think. Latinos--citizens and noncitizens who can legally work--are fully employed. Those doing landscape work certainly are interested in owning their own company. Why should they take a job with intermittent employment, even for $34, when they want to have their own company. That is the route to the middle class. As for Anglos/whites, how many of them have you seen doing landscaping work; they aren't going to complete with Latinos for jobs--get real. They have great opportunities.

Posted by: shroudedindoubt at May 18, 2006 02:30 PM (s0ZRf)

10 Look, there ARE jobs American citizens, regardless of color, won't do--at a particular price. But I've known white people who picked strawberries for less than 10 an hour (several years ago, and not anywhere NEAR SoCal, but still). At 34 bucks an hour, she could get people. This is a load of crap, Bluto nailed them. That reporter's gullibility is a firing offense in this case. Shoot, there are Americans cleaning outdoor toilets for 10 bucks an hour, some parts of this country.

Posted by: jd at May 18, 2006 03:47 PM (aqTJB)

11 OK, now that I've READ the piece, I wouldn't fire the reporter. The reporter all thru the piece tries to verify the woman's story. The reporter IS skeptical. But I still don't believe the woman's story. I do believe that she has trouble getting inexperienced workers at $14 an hour in Orange County...but $34 for experienced? That seems pretty good.

Posted by: jd at May 18, 2006 04:01 PM (aqTJB)

12 I love how John uses his mastery of haiku to simultaneously show how dishonest and stupid he is at the same time.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 18, 2006 04:37 PM (0yYS2)

13 I cleaned toilets and mopped floors about two years ago as a side job for extra money for several months to earn enough to help pay a hefty bill for a lawyer for a family member. It was something I could do without stress or bother in the mornings before I had to be at my regular job. I got paid fairly and when I'd earned enough for what I needed I gave notice and parted amicably with the employer. So yes, Americans WILL do the jobs they say we won't do. If this lady is willing to pay me $34 an hour to get in shape and get a tan at the same time, I'll pack up right damn now and move there.

Posted by: Oyster at May 18, 2006 05:53 PM (YudAC)

14 Flat out lie, without a doubt. I could drum up twenty people in twenty minutes willing to dig holes etc. for $34/hour. JOurnalism must be paying pretty well for this reporter not to know the value of $34/hour.

Posted by: Heroic Dreamer at May 18, 2006 06:57 PM (aH6Zf)

15 Using the hiring of airport screener as an analogy to real workers doing a physically strenuous labor intensive job? : : $34 an hour is nearly three times the starting base : : rate for a Transportation Security Administration : : airport screener, yet somehow, the government : : managed to fill all of the screener positions - with : : US citizens With the current clowns in power in the federal government, when it comes to the TSA all I can say is you get what you pay for... A warm body, two eyes that can't see and three braincells that don't connect... 'Xcuse me ... take off your shoes... and while your at it, your skivvies too... YoHo YoHo... a sailors life for me ...

Posted by: Adm Happy Horation Hornhonker at May 18, 2006 11:15 PM (dzYxp)

16 It all depends on what she arbitrarily considers "experienced". There's a term in the headhunting community for a candidate that gets the top dollar... a purple squirrel. Such a thing doesn't exist but allows a company to be perceived as actively seeking new employees. Have her post the EXACT qualifications the $34/hr candidate must have and then see the qualified applications roll in. "Supervisor must be available 25 hours a day, 8 days a week and be able to lift 200 lbs, be female, African-American, and have mother tongue fluency in Spanish and Korean and Finnish. Rethuglicans need not apply."

Posted by: Aaron's cc: at May 18, 2006 11:46 PM (ov6Vw)

17 Woah, Hornhonker just opened a big can of worms! He doesn't know Bluto! Hold on ... let me grab my popcorn ...

Posted by: Oyster at May 19, 2006 05:54 AM (YudAC)

18 Adm Happy: Ignorance is bliss. The average screener works harder every day than you ever have in your life, and for less money than they'd make as a 'civilian'. I say 'civilian' because they are supervised in a para-military manner by political appointees who know little or nothing about their duties, and are subject to imprisonment in Leavenworth for security breaches. When the original screener force was hired, 11 out of 12 applicants were rejected. The ones who remain must requalify in a week-long process every six months in every aspect of their jobs or face dismissal. Try putting your average American office worker through that and see what happens. Many, if not most TSA folks are like me, they joined after 9/11...because of 9/11. I took an immediate $10,000 per year pay cut for the privilege, then spent months away from my family training screeners at airports across the country, working a seven-day per week schedule - and I did it gladly because I knew that what I was doing served my country. You should know that once you bluster your way past the checkpoint the screeners laugh amongst themselves at the pompous assholes who think they deserve preferential treatment.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 19, 2006 09:12 AM (RHG+K)

19 Bluto--How come you don't blog more about screening? For ex: do you think privatizing is/was the way to go? How do you think it is going? Are they doing something useless that could be cut? Missing something simple they should be doing? And how come liberals always got identified for cavity searches when you were doing the screening?

Posted by: jd at May 19, 2006 11:39 AM (aqTJB)

20 Only the ones with boobies.

Posted by: Oyster at May 19, 2006 01:09 PM (QQzPp)

21 Lessee, she says she has to certify the employee by Davis/Bacon Law, and she's asking for skilled Landscaping Emloyees. Actually the pay is about average for most of those job descriptions. The work is physical, and on the average, after going through an Airport or two, my guess is 95% of the TSA people are only qualified to hoist Donuts. The other criteria for the type of work she is offering is "Showing up every day" . . something most of the 4.7% unemployed can't master.

Posted by: large at May 19, 2006 01:14 PM (fEUSs)

22 large, if you'd read my comment above you wouldn't have just made such a giant ass of yourself. Next time you walk through an airport, try doing it with your eyes open.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 19, 2006 01:53 PM (RHG+K)

23 Does "skilled landscaping employees" constitute being able to pick which of these tools is a shovel? Or is it someone with a dregree in landscaping design and horticulture?

Posted by: Oyster at May 19, 2006 03:22 PM (QQzPp)

24 jd: I have blogged about the TSA. The tragedy of the TSA is that grossly incompetent managers have squandered a workforce of uniformed TSA personnel who are, without question, the most dedicated and professional people with whom I have ever worked. Unfortunately, the TSA Executive Service is rotten with incompetent bureaucrats and failed military officers who are busily destroying the organization while building their little fiefs. Incidentally, people like large and Adm Whoosiboober are a small percentage of airline passengers. Most passengers are cooperative and realize the need for security. The few arrogant loudmouths are dealt with with courtesy and concealed amusement.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 19, 2006 03:48 PM (RHG+K)

25 What does she look like? Perhaps Cyndi Smallwood should consider some bigwood. I just hired 4 mexicans to do fence work for less than half that money. Took me one morning to find them. They are happy. I am happy. They work hard. I give them a decent place to stay and buy the beer after work. As every one knows there are supposed to be tens of thousands of black people out of work. Try finding one. I have been out of the country for 6 weeks and was shocked to come back and find all the roofers, construction laborers and clean up crews to be White or Mexican. Remember, as the idiot mayor Nagin says. This is the Chocolate city where 67% is black. Strange how you find very few working when the claim 200,000 out of work. How can a Mexican who has never been here before find work when a black native can't. Yea, Yea. I know. I'm a racist.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 08:31 PM (AWtJU)

26 greyroastduck = amnesty = enabler ... unless of course the fence is at the border ...

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 08:49 PM (FCC6c)

27 I hear ya Rooster. I'll hire anyone who can work unsupervised, but with Bush's horrible economy, with soaring unemployment at 4.7%, I've given up. White kids are mostly stupid liberals with no sort of work ethic and who want fifteen dollars an hour, the few black guys who have asked for a job are multiple felons and I won't take them to someone's house, and there aren't enough legal Mexicans to go around, so I've been working seven days a week for months now, and keeping all the money for myself. Meanwhile, leftards like Larry et al are crying for the government to steal more of what I earn by my effort, though they can't manage any effort of their own. It will be fun killing them WTSHTF.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 20, 2006 07:50 PM (0yYS2)

28 That's real funny IM. You would not send these people to the houses but you would go there yourself! LOL HaHaHa!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 20, 2006 08:47 PM (FCC6c)

29 IM: Yesterday there was approximately 30 mexicans at the entrance to Home Depot in Gulfport, Ms. Come on and get a truckload. That is if you can work illegals. Last gasp Larry: Idiot! What he meant was the felons would probably steal from his customers. And guess what? They would. Friggin moonbat.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 22, 2006 06:44 AM (J4a4p)

30 Oh! I'm glad someone understands IM, greydickroost! Thanks for the interpretation. All the same, I would rather be stolen from than end up hanging from an overpass! You and your unholy alliance with illegals can go to hell!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 22, 2006 12:28 PM (FCC6c)

31 I don't employ illegals now Rooster, but pretty soon I won't have much choice, because it's hard as hell to find anyone who will show up, much less do the work. Anyone who wants a job has one, and most people are unwilling to do physical labor for the wages I can pay. The few Americans who have expressed interest in working for me either want outrageous wages, or are crackheads, or both. Mexicans show up on time, dress and groom themselves well, generally do damn fine work, and don't cause trouble on the job. I started on construction doing cleanup when I was 13, but most kids today are too lazy, stupid, and cellphone-obsessed to work. I have little choice if I want to keep expanding my business, and it makes me sick. Larry, my customers don't have anything to fear from me, because I don't work for liberals. For all I care, their houses can collapse on them.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 22, 2006 06:16 PM (0yYS2)

32 So you have your customers fill out a questionaire, denoting political affiliation, IM? I know the Mexicans are good people, it is just the bending and undermining of the law that sticks in my craw. It is just typical of American hypocrisy to bend the laws for the sake of the dollar.

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 23, 2006 12:36 AM (FCC6c)

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Fatwa Issued AgainstÂ…

Instapundit for linking us to the new book on Fatwas by Shmuel Bar Titled

Warrant for Terror : The Fatwas of Radical Islam, and the Duty of Jihad

Posted by: Howie at 10:37 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Defeatist John Murtha, Again

Michelle Malkin and California Conservative have the news on Murtha's latest blabber.
more...

Posted by: Howie at 09:40 AM | Comments (24) | Add Comment
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1 This bastard needs to shut up before he gets more good men killed. It's quite obvious that senility has taken hold, send this man to a nursing home, or an insane asylum.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 09:53 AM (rUyw4)

2 Even better - vote of his challenger. I have her website link on my site. It's really time for him to get out of Congress.

Posted by: beth at May 18, 2006 10:32 AM (9FJmf)

3 That's right, shoot the messenger and ignore the message. This was a disgusting incident.

Posted by: Greg at May 18, 2006 10:43 AM (q5wwn)

4 Shoot the messenger, Now that's a good idea. I'm aware of the incident I don't need John Murtha to drag it up again.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 10:53 AM (D3+20)

5 We are all aware of the incident, but until now the military said the civilians were killed by an IED. That was a lie, which I'll bet you had accepted. "On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. On Wednesday (yesterday), military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right (about the killing of civilians by American forces on Nov. 20, 2005). So there is a new and important element here.

Posted by: Greg at May 18, 2006 11:09 AM (q5wwn)

6 Greg, what's Murtha's point in going to the press about this? Answer: It's politics to get at Bush by using our GIs. Just like Abu Graib. Going to the press should be the last resort, not the first. Disgusting.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 11:11 AM (8e/V4)

7 Carlos, You phoney, snake-handling Christian. Your version of Christianity mirrors the Islamofascists view. Disgusting, yes.

Posted by: Greg at May 18, 2006 11:39 AM (q5wwn)

8 Murtha could be right or wrong. We don't know, but regardless of the veracity of his statement, it was irresponsible of Murtha to assert as fact something that has yet to be determined by a court martial board or even pending the completion of the investigation. Mitigating factors are not mentioned either. A comment that made perfect sense to me at California Conservative was made by "Richard". He seemed to be the most sensible about this. However, Murtha seems to be carrying a chip on his shoulder now as he has not wasted a single opportunity to express his disdain since he got the backlash he did after his first insistence to pull out. After a while one begins to question his motives. I'm not saying he isn't patriotic because in his mind he is. But he is doing damage whether that's his intention or not. ----------------------------- BTW, Greg, I haven't been able to find where I had read that about the RR engine from the flight that hit the Pemtagon. It's possible I misread or remembered it incorrectly. I'm not sure. That's why I used the qualifier "It's my understanding..." Regardless, it's been impossible to find the specific site again as 9 out of 10 Google returns are dedicated to the conspiracy rather than simple factual evidence. I just gave up looking.

Posted by: Oyster at May 18, 2006 12:07 PM (ASk6Y)

9 As I understand the incident it wnet as follows. the house in question has a guest that was part of the insurgency. Now then let's assume the best of intentions upon the head of household just for kicks. He knowingly had a guest that placed his household in danger. Assuming the worst intentions he may have been harboring the enemy of Iraq. thus placing his home in danger. The guest who was a known terrorist/insurgent disrespected his host by planting a bomb. Thus endangering the entire household of his host. What is known after that gets kind of foggy. After the explosion some Iraqis and Americans swept into this house and killed the insurgents. Some of which may or may not have been injured by the blast as well or inidental fire. It is possible that some of our soldiers in a bad situation acted badly in this instance. this is intolerable and must be dealt with. But Murtha paints this as a "cold blooded murder". Like some Marines for no reason just walked in and started killing people at random. Not the case at all. I tend to blame the bomber for starting it, but we don't have him to kick around do we. That being said we have to investigate and take appropriate action. If deception is found then deal with it. Painting all the victims as "innocent" is also not fair. Who should carry the most blame for their deaths. The soldiers who got carried away (not excusing them) or the bomber and host who set the whole thing in motion?

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 12:22 PM (D3+20)

10 To get answers we need to spit in soldiers faces when they come home, them baby killers.

Posted by: Budd at May 18, 2006 12:42 PM (Slc5L)

11 Budd, Would it be acceptable to spit in your face? I mean, you don't agree with what I'm doing and propose spitting so that must make it okay for me to return the favor since I don't agree with you or what you're doing.

Posted by: Cpl M at May 18, 2006 01:14 PM (gXKS3)

12 John Murtha is yellow bellied coward he would want to to surrender to the teleban he should be removed from this country

Posted by: sandpiper at May 18, 2006 01:30 PM (I9Upt)

13 Greg, it's you Bushitler haters who have been proven the phonies by Saddam's ouster. You couldn't give two rat turds about human rights and innocent civilians. You use it purely for political leverage. That's why you make mountains out of molehills out of isolated incidents like this one, and yet minimize and ignore Saddam's rape dungeons and mass graves. When you call me a phony you're looking at yourself in the mirror. It's called projection.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 02:03 PM (8e/V4)

14 Howie, You're wrong. There were no insurgents in that house. I don't blame the troops though and neither does Murtha. The troops are under tremendous pressure. Still, it's disgusting. Carlos, I do hate Bush. But I hate the Democrats too. They're a bunch of spineless jellyfish. I'm no liberal. The Clinton administration staged terror attacks also. THE NEW YORK TIMES * * * * * Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1 "Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast" By Ralph Blumenthal Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast. The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said. The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as being in a far better position than previously known to foil the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers. The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars. Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court [on charges of involvement] in that attack. Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases: the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the second bombing case, but his work for the Government was erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast, he was feuding with th F.B.I. Supervisor `Messed It Up' After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an undated transcript of a conversation from that period, Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said, "came and messed it up." "He requested to meet me in the hotel," Mr. Salem says of the supervisor. "He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn't push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that." The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by an agent identified as John Anticev. Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him, "He said, I don't think that the New York people would like the things out of the New York Office to go to Washington, D.C." Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it, saying of the `New York people': "Well, of course not, because they don't want to get their butts chewed."

Posted by: Greg at May 18, 2006 03:32 PM (q5wwn)

15 Murtha is giving aid and comfort to the enemy, like all liberals, and should be tried by military tribunal and summarily executed. I'll bid $10,000.00 to be on the firing squad.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 18, 2006 04:39 PM (0yYS2)

16 budd- I hope the person you select to receive your infantile gob of spittle turns out to be a Navy SEAL who has been having a horrible day.

Posted by: jamsler at May 18, 2006 06:02 PM (VqA/E)

17 Greg, you chicken shit, STFU!

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 06:20 PM (rUyw4)

18 Suck me, bitch.

Posted by: Greg at May 18, 2006 07:05 PM (q5wwn)

19 Greg, you damn coward!

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 07:15 PM (rUyw4)

20 Did you not post that before greg? We've seen that already.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 08:11 PM (D3+20)

21 Ok thne just whom was killed by whom and why how? The fact remains a bomb went off. Who did it. Murtha says "our troops killed them in cold blood". Which implies for no reason without any provocation. Even if so to handle it outside of military justice during war is foolish. Murtha is a congressman he can get a meeting. That's why he was sent to Washington. Maybe at one time he could have said that petty openly. But today our communications are available for enemy use instantly. They will use it/him.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 08:18 PM (D3+20)

22 Note to all: Just ignore greg; he's got JOOOOOooooooos hiding under his bed.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 19, 2006 04:59 AM (0yYS2)

23 Can't believe the little commie prick Greg is still around.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 22, 2006 07:50 PM (pSK/I)

24 If they weren't so sickening these 'patriots' would be comical. The U.S. military, using mostly uninformed children, filled their whole lives with the propoganda about the 'good intentions' of U.S. foriegn policy, are for the most part terrorists in uniforms. Saddam was the creation and sweetheart of the governing elite that relies on stupid fools that fill these blogs with thier phony patriotism to continue their immoral, illeagle attempts to dominate the world, and care not a whit who or how many innocents they kill. Why aren't you tough guys in Iraq if you feel so strongly about this? Because you're the typical chickenhawks. "Kill them all and let God sort them out" loudmouths, but they don't go because they are the cowards they love to label others with. Fucking worthless cowards. This incident is only one of many and you don't need to wait for a military court to get at the facts. If you were there and dispute Murthas assertions, speak up. Otherwise shut your foul cowardly mouths. You are all terrorists and are stupid enough to seem proud of it.

Posted by: battleborn at May 28, 2006 08:27 PM (MUoMD)

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Now I Really Miss Rusty

IÂ’m torn that two of my favorite bloggers are in a bit of a spat. On one side we have Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch. The other half is Dean Esmay of Deansworld. Dean is upset that Robert spends so much effort projecting a negative image of Islam. He thinks Robert is creating more problems than he solves. Robert is understandably standing his ground. The amazing part is neither seems read each other very much. Both are on the same side so to speak but have very different styles.

The subject of the discussion is more than relevant to The Jawa Report. We also engage in exposing the ideology of the terrorists. We also try and make as much fun of them as we can and have a good time doing it. Occasionally people get upset with us too. ItÂ’s a very difficult balance to take it to the ideology of terror and Islamic oppression and not upset at least some of the people Dean speaks of. more...

Posted by: Howie at 09:10 AM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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1 Robert Spencer is the expert. Dean is a rookie. I go with Robert every time.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 09:15 AM (rUyw4)

2 Yes but they both have value.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 09:19 AM (D3+20)

3 You could say that Spencer is a johnny one note, on the other hand.. Spencer is doing admirable and vital work considering that he's up against the very well funded [eg Saudi billions] al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation machine building mosques, corrupting Universities w/ grants, think tanks etc. around the world causing the advancement of sharia law and all the other sorts of corruption attached to the Ummah/ Religion of PeaceÃ‚Â®. is Dean as effective as Spencer?

Posted by: Rubin at May 18, 2006 09:37 AM (edDuI)

4 Very thoughtful and balanced post, Howie. I absolutely agree that we, the west, have to figure out a way to be both critical of various aspects of Islam without being prejudiced against Islam and Muslims. One way to think of it is to look at our own history. For decades, black Americans were lynched, in public. They were denied the right to vote, to own businesses, to speak freely. They were denied right to jobs, to housing, to equal education. Those that spoke up were often killed or thrown in prison. These practices went on well into the second half of the 20th century. What did our friends in Europe do? Some, like Gunnar Myrdal, studied our pathologies, and tried to aid our reforms. While Myrdal was vilified throughout much of the south (he got death threats), eventually, his work helped build the base for Brown v. Board and the civil rights movement. But if Europe had tried to use force? Tried to fix our evil ways with aggressive sanctions? Nothing Saudia arabia is doing to women or to shi'ites or to Christians is worse than what the American South did to blacks for decades after the civil war. We got better. There is hope for Islamic countries, but it will not come at the end of a gun. At least not the end of OUR guns.

Posted by: jd at May 18, 2006 09:42 AM (aqTJB)

5 I'm going with Spencer here, too. It is not the West's job to be loved by Islam, to reform it, or to accomodate itself to Islam. Islam must accomodate itself to Western values and ideas; until then it remains an enemy ideology. While, like Spencer, I would welcome any 'moderate' that respects western values, the fact remains that these people are, to steal a concept, "a tiny minority of extremists." There is no reason to be sensitive to Islam or to tiptoe around this issue, as you seem to be implying. Those who are just, will know that we are not talkng about their beliefs; those who are not, should not be accomodated or knowtowed to.

Posted by: MiB at May 18, 2006 09:44 AM (B9sDR)

6 It may seem contradictory but it's not. I don't intend to be any softer or harder as I don't feel we can let up much. But I do recognize the value of making friends as well. They are both vital functions in my book. One balances the other and both are required to be effective. It's an odd synergy but I feel it works overall. I can understand the frustration of one with the other because It's an internal stuggle I face daily. I got an email tip the other day on the UAE hostages. He prefaced his tip with his less than favorable opinion of our blog. Immediately afterward he admitted we do a good job with hostage issues and asked that we post on it. So we have a half person out there who is both pissed at us and working with us at the same time.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 10:12 AM (D3+20)

7 Dean kind of trolled him to the argument/started it.

Posted by: Howie at May 18, 2006 12:30 PM (D3+20)

8 Friends do not have to be "made." You act as a just, good man, and the people who should be your friends become them; those who shouldn't, don't.

Posted by: MiB at May 18, 2006 10:26 PM (B9sDR)

9 Dean needs to review the history of islam beginning at the death of mohammed until the present. If the muslims that were muslim at the time of momo's death didn't know how to faithfully execute his teachings who would?

Posted by: Tempest at May 19, 2006 07:32 AM (T9L62)

10 Tempest--if we apply that same standard to Christianity, most people would not approve of Christianity. Early Christians were taught to tolerate slavery, for example, and they did (Southerners found many defenses for slavery in the Bible, and they weren't always wrong in their exegesis). And if we applied the same standard to those who follow Moses today...polygamy, anyone? Stoning? Seems a poor way to judge the worth of Islam, Christianity, or Judaism.

Posted by: jd at May 19, 2006 11:41 AM (aqTJB)

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Mexico Threatens Suits Over Guard Patrols

I guess you would call this mucho el Chutzpa....

AP--Mexico said Tuesday that it would file lawsuits in U.S. courts if National Guard troops on the border become directly involved in detaining migrants.

Mexican border officials also said they worried that sending troops to heavily trafficked regions would push illegal migrants into more perilous areas of the U.S.-Mexican border to avoid detection.

UPDATE: Mexico, ACLU Preparing Lawsuit Against US Over Guard Deployment

A representative from Mexican President Vicente Fox claims that if the US National Guard troops detain illegal aliens crossing the US-Mexico border, the Fox government will file a lawsuit against the Bush Administration in US federal court.

There are some political observers who believe that the American Civil Liberties Union is preparing to assist the Mexican government in such a lawsuit. In fact, the ACLU sent a statement to the Mexican government regarding their stance on immigration enforcement.

Posted by: Traderrob at 07:43 AM | Comments (27) | Add Comment
Post contains 164 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Doesn't say a whole lot about Mexico: "I would rather take a week to walk through the desert, and risk death, capture by US athorities and attack and rape by bandits, than remain in Mexico." Your country must really suck! Lets just annex mexico and be done with these games.

Posted by: Fred Fry at May 16, 2006 03:59 PM (HJnrm)

2 It's hard not laugh at this stuff, but these jokers are serious! Help me get this straight. They're going to sue the US because the US needs troops on the border to stop the illegal invasion from mexico?? Do I have that right? So we have no right to station troops on the border to protect our national security? Since when does mexico decide when and where we use our own troops? I can't believe we're even disussing this. It's just so stupid.

Posted by: Richard at May 16, 2006 04:20 PM (U+YqD)

3 Yep ,you've got it right and it's not from Scrappleface.

Posted by: traderrob at May 16, 2006 05:03 PM (3al54)

4 Dear God! How long would THAT be tied up in court? The problem that is so terrifying to me... They would probably win! Just think about the U.N. getting involved. What right do these Mexicans have to tell us what to do on OUR side of the sandbox to keep THEIR people out? NONE! Pehaps they need to scrape the debris from their own side as we clean their trailing refuse from ours! I am absolutely incensed! Ol' Fox can shove it for all I care! Bring on the Troops!

Posted by: Melissa Rutledge at May 16, 2006 05:31 PM (bbxLM)

5 http://foxandbush.blogspot.com

Posted by: Aaron's cc: at May 16, 2006 05:37 PM (ov6Vw)

6 It's time for us to grab our rifles and head for the border, boys. It's either going to be a shooting war or we can just abandon our country to foreign occupation.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 16, 2006 05:54 PM (rUyw4)

7 JJ Calm down - don't get all bug-eyed yet. Have not been able to verify the topic story yet - suspect it is either false or a gross mis-interpretation. The fact that it was an incredibly dumb and stupid thing to say made me suspect. The topic is overheated right now and a lot of people on all sides are looking to play with other peoples heads.

Posted by: hondo at May 16, 2006 06:22 PM (SeBrl)

8 Let's see, 190 million more illegals in the next twenty years. America as we know it gone. Yep, J.J. is correct, start inforcing the border with force of arms. I'm in.

Posted by: Leatherneck at May 16, 2006 06:48 PM (D2g/j)

9 I'm headed down there in two weeks fellow Jawas. A week with the Minutemen will help me decide what I must do, but I'm as mad as I have ever been in my life. And I intend to do something about it, not just sit on my ass and watch my country go to hell.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 16, 2006 07:50 PM (rUyw4)

10 Sounds like a job for the ACLU!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 16, 2006 09:20 PM (8e/V4)

11 Should be interesting. Forces of government vs fences and the Minutemen. Could be another Waco ...

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 17, 2006 01:07 AM (FCC6c)

12 Yes, Larry, it could be another Waco, but this time, the rest of us won't stand by and watch the government gestapo murder its own citizens. My loyalty is to my country and its Constitution, not the government. If the government attacks, it will spark a revolution. I say it's about damn time; we need to throw out the garbage and start over again anyway.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 17, 2006 05:34 AM (0yYS2)

13 Time to declare war on mexico and put a end to their bullying

Posted by: sandpiper at May 17, 2006 07:04 AM (oCdmx)

14 Whaaah hoooo! Bring 'em on!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 17, 2006 08:34 AM (FCC6c)

15 I find it interesting that reports of vehicles carrying many (like 25 in a pickup here in Illinois) illegal immigrants either being captured or involved in accidents have increased since their demonstration day. The story mentions also that Mexican immigrants are increasing their efforts to cross because they want to get on this side in case amnesty is offered. This is a much better use of our troops. And the desert training will be put to good use one way or another.

Posted by: rev rick at May 17, 2006 09:57 AM (KvECC)

16 I KNEW it. The ACLU will actually sue the government that makes its existence possible. And US taxpayers will pay for the lawyers. I need to hit something.

Posted by: Richard at May 18, 2006 07:11 AM (7KF8r)

17 Shit! I'm in Cancun. Need to get out of here before I get sued for spending my money below the border. And money is what its all about. A point being missed. All the money the illegals and legals send to Mexico. The Mexican government doesn't give a shit about mexicans. They do give a shit about the money they send home to their corrupt economy. I still prefer tacos over chitterlings.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 18, 2006 07:51 AM (rkBMw)

18 IMy suggestion to Mexico is to ask Castro to take over their country. Then ALL of the Mexicans would be welcome because they would be fleeing communism.

Posted by: john Ryan at May 18, 2006 08:08 AM (TcoRJ)

19 John "It's the same, but different" Ryan weighs in again: Wouldn't that only be if they reach the shores of the United States, John?

Posted by: davec at May 18, 2006 08:30 AM (CcXvt)

20 Just as I said, sounds like a job for the ACLU!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at May 18, 2006 08:32 AM (8e/V4)

21 I don't see how the government of Mexico has any standing to file a lawsuit against the US Government in Federal Court. If this was common, governments from all over the World would have our court system clogged for the next 500 years. The Federal Courts should throw any such lawsuit out for lack of standing.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 09:21 AM (rUyw4)

22 Guess we should start calling them the MCLU. Get it? MC......Oh, never mind

Posted by: REMF at May 18, 2006 09:50 AM (7RMSi)

23 The U.S should welcome a lawsuit filed on the behalf of Mexico against the U.S, it would be a prime opportunity to counter sue the Mexican Government for expenses incurred due to their stealth policy of assisting their population in circumventing U.S law.

Posted by: davec at May 18, 2006 10:37 AM (CcXvt)

24 How about a class action lawsuit on behalf of all legal citizens of the US? We are being knowingly damaged by the mexican government. Think the ACLU would take that one??

Posted by: Richard at May 18, 2006 04:33 PM (U+YqD)

25 davec, I'll countersue the bastards. Great idea. And also countersue the ACLU while I'm at it.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 18, 2006 04:35 PM (rUyw4)

26 Strange how I felt so good until landing at Henry Armstrong airport in New Orleans. I know why they call it the city of the blues. It gives you the blues. The one hour drive back to gulf coast Mississippi seems like 10 hours. Stopped at Cafe Mesparo in the French Quarter for some shrimp and calmari on the way home. The place was packed. The other restaurants were mostly empty. Most of the cooks and bartenders never missed a beat. They went to San Francisco and worked until the restaurant reopened. Enjoyed themselves. Earned a good living. Seen a interesting city. Another group, pissed and moaned, demanded money, robbed businesses, stole all they could, spend the days standing in line for (free money) sat on their asses and accused the government of racism, etc: Now they are demanding that the good working people in other parts of America buy them new homes to replace the dilapidated junk piles they lived in before. Why???? because they chose to spend their welfare money on malt liquor, chicken wings and gold chains instead of insurance. Yea, yea. I know. Anyway. My new house is just about completed. Thx to Allstate and the $3000.00 per year I spend on insurance instead of beer and $150.00 tennis shoes. Not to mention crack. Wonder if the president of Mexico knows why Mexican citizens want to leave his country?

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 09:03 PM (AWtJU)

27 How about suing mexico and VINCENTE FOX for the mess and damages left by all those illegal aleins?

Posted by: sandpiper at May 23, 2006 10:12 PM (K3hNB)

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American Suspects Arrested - Won't Do Jobs Mexicans Will

(Duncan, Oklahoma) Halliburton executives have been accused of trying to avoid controversy by holding their shareholders' meeting in the city of Duncan. Not so, responded the Houston-based company. Rather, Duncan was chosen since the company was founded there and management wanted to highlight operations that continue there. I confess to not caring one whit.

From KansasCity.com:

Sixteen people protesting Halliburton Co.'s environmental record and its role as a military contractor were arrested on trespassing charges today when they surged toward a building where company shareholders were meeting.
Another man was arrested on a charge of destroying public property for tearing up a plastic fence holding back protesters.
A masked man beat on a large empty jug and protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching," and "Shame on you," while police made the arrests. A designated area had been set up for the protest, and police had told protesters not to leave that area.
Those arrested were frisked, handcuffed and taken to the Stephens County Jail.

As a result, we can now identify at least 16 people who are responsible for Mexicans sneaking across the border. These 16 protesters are likely Americans who won't do jobs that Mexicans will. How else could you explain them being available in the middle of the week and able to travel to Oklahoma, all for the sake of being a pain in the ass?

From Interested-Participant.

Posted by: Mike Pechar at 05:57 AM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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May 17, 2006

Mahmoud Wants An Answer

Obligatory link.

TEHRAN, Iran -
Iran's president mocked a package of incentives to suspend uranium enrichment, saying Wednesday they were like giving up gold for chocolate Â— defiance that appeared certain to complicate U.S. efforts to curb Tehran's nuclear ambitions.
"Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?" President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad asked derisively.

Feel free to give your own answer to Mahmoud's question. Be sure it's derisive.

Posted by: Vinnie at 10:17 PM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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1 Apparently, America and the EU do.

Posted by: MiB at May 17, 2006 10:34 PM (B9sDR)

2 Why, yes, we do. And as an added bonus, we think you are a 4 year old girl, which means that since diamonds aren't involved to complicate the decision, you would gladly give up the gold for the chocolate.

Posted by: Kermit at May 17, 2006 10:37 PM (SPYnx)

3 its time to take this guy out!!!

Posted by: josh at May 17, 2006 11:00 PM (MGRcs)

4 "its time to take this guy out!!! I can't yet entirely agree, Josh. I agree he's dangerous, and keeping a close eye is definitely needed. But, we don't want to rush into any aggressive aspects until we have no other choices. Unfortunately, I think that in a few months we (US, Israel, EU, etc...) will not have any reasonable diplomatic solutions left. We can't rush into attacks, but we MUST keep them a viable option...expect the best, but prepare for the worst.

Posted by: The Gentle Cricket at May 17, 2006 11:22 PM (USZUJ)

5 Only a four-year-old would pay attention to such stupidity! Hey, wait, the crowd he was speaking to... Hmmm... sugiero

Posted by: sugiero at May 18, 2006 04:54 AM (WFtxm)

6 Child, no. Lunatic, YES!

Posted by: Fred Fry at May 18, 2006 05:53 AM (JXdhy)

7 Gentle Cricket in 2 months: Allright! That's the last straw! Send in the troops! Get that little inbred punk bastard!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 18, 2006 06:44 AM (FCC6c)

8 President Bush to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: PSSST!!!...Mahmoud, over here!!!! Son, I ainÂ’t talkin walnuts or chocolate, no sir, I got something much better. I have here a container of PEZ. ItÂ’s the tangy grape flavor you love so much with the collectorÂ’s edition Sean Penn PEZ dispenser thrown in. ThatÂ’s right, slide the Nuklar Material over here, IÂ’m pushing the PEZ across the table. On three, I grab the Enriched Uranium, you grab the PEZ. One...Two...Three.......

Posted by: Brad at May 18, 2006 07:38 AM (BJYNn)

9 We are deers in the headlights...frozen in fear...whenever our collective attention turns towards Iran. Mahmoud, the wily coyote that he is, obviously intends this.

Posted by: Heroic Dreamer at May 18, 2006 08:59 AM (aH6Zf)

10 If only we WERE dealing with a 4-year-old child, we wouldn't have to deal with a stupid jihad.

Posted by: reverse_vampyr at May 19, 2006 03:44 PM (Ns5kk)

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Who Writes These Headlines?

House ethics panel to probe several lawmakers

Larry Flynt?

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The Other Unasked Question About Illegal Immigration

Where the Hell did I put that English to Spanish dictionary anyway?

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Will You Still Need Me

or will You Bleed me? When I'm Sixty-Four.....And the answer is...

CNN:On Wednesday, (Paul) McCartney, who turns 64 next month, posted a message on his personal Web site saying that he was upset over suggestions that Mills McCartney had simply married him for his fortune

I'm not worried about the money thing, it's like a prophesy! more...

Posted by: Howie at 02:21 PM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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1 But don't all sweet young hotties dream of marrying dottering old men?

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 17, 2006 04:57 PM (0yYS2)

2 Sir Paul said that he announced their breakup so Heather could 'have a leg-up' on the media on this story.

Posted by: Steve Sharon at May 17, 2006 08:41 PM (L8hzy)

3 Heather demanded the split because Paul started calling her by a nickname everytime she walked. He called her "Norwegian Wood." She considers this cruel and unusual punishment.

Posted by: Steve Sharon at May 17, 2006 08:43 PM (L8hzy)

4 Most people believe that if this becomes a divorce proceeding, Sir Paul should throw Heather onto a landmine.

Posted by: Steve Sharon at May 17, 2006 08:44 PM (L8hzy)

5 Yesterday, All my money seemed not far away, Now it looks as though half's gone today, Oh I believe in Yesterday. Suddenly, Im not half as rich as I used to be There's a divorce hanging over me, Oh I believe in Yesterday. Why she had to go, now I know, she will not stay, I said grow a new leg, now I long for yesterday... Yesterday, Had a wife who when she tried to stay, Wasnt cause she couldnt hop away, Oh I believe in Yesterday. Why, she, had to go I dont know, she wore the leg Now, she's, hopping mad,and more rich, than yesterday... Yesterday, I thought everything with her was fine, Now I wish she'd trip over a landmine, Oh I believe in Yesterday, Limp limp limp, limp, limp limp limp!

Posted by: Steve Sharon at May 17, 2006 08:53 PM (L8hzy)

6 Paul and I are the same age and I've wondered why my hair is freakin totally grey and his is not. Could it be he dyes it? John was always my favorite anyway.

Posted by: Badeye at May 18, 2006 05:12 AM (jThLx)

7 What goes around, comes around. He slammed the "older generation" in the song, now he has become his own icon.

Posted by: Chief RZ at May 18, 2006 11:57 AM (rFh3M)

8 True, Chief. Irony, like revenge, is best served cold.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 18, 2006 04:42 PM (0yYS2)

9 Paul and I are the same age and our hair is the same color. Paul will miss Heather's hooters for sure. Anyway, I would. Ah! getting old is a pain in the ass. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 09:10 PM (AWtJU)

10 Seriosly, in London, this was THE headline of the week.

Posted by: Rusty at May 23, 2006 10:24 AM (JQjhA)

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Mr. Blagojevich Sign this Bill

From my Illinois Republican Newsletter

ILL Senate Republican Leader Frank Watson :Senate Republicans are urging the Governor to sign the Â“Let Them Rest in Peace ActÂ” to allow an Effingham soldier to Â“Rest in PeaceÂ” during his funeral later this week.
Warrant Officer Second Class Christopher Donaldson, 28, was among 10 people killed in Afghanistan when a helicopter went down during combat operations.
The Â“Let Them Rest in Peace ActÂ”, which was unanimously approved by the Illinois House and Senate, would place restrictions on protests at military funeral services in Illinois, by prohibiting loud and inflammatory protests within 200 feet of all Illinois funeral services beginning 30 minutes before a funeral, during a funeral, and 30 minutes after the funeral. The measure, which currently awaits the GovernorÂ’s final approval, would safeguard the right of families like Warrant Officer Second Class Christopher DonaldsonÂ’s to bury their loved ones in peace.
The Â“Let Them Rest in Peace ActÂ” was crafted in response to a series of disruptions at military funerals in Illinois and nationwide by members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., a fundamentalist church group at the burials of soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. The original House bill was held in the Senate Rules Committee by the Senate Democrat leadership until Senate Republican members drew attention to the issue and a compromise was reached.

Contact Info for Gov Rod.

Dear Governor...
Send correspondence for Governor Blagojevich, to http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm or to the Office of the Governor, 207 State House, Springfield, IL 62706; (217) 782-0244 or (312) 814-2121 [TTY (88 261-3336]. (NOTE: Should a response be required it will be mailed to you via the United States Postal Service, so it is important that you include your name and complete mailing address.)
Also, visit the Governor's web site for information about the Governor.

The governor has a lot of bragging about what he has signed on his site. Sign this one too while you are at it. Or our troops not worth the ink, too much trouble? What gives?

Posted by: Howie at 01:26 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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The Unasked Question About Immigration 'Reform'

If we build it, will they come?
Everyone assumes that the millions of illegal immigrants living in the United States will jump at the chance to accept whatever amnesty program is offered to them. No one is asking what happens if they choose to remain in the shadow economy. But why shouldn't they?

Why should an illegal alien who has for years successfully flaunted immigration, employment, and tax laws be eager to join the new Peculiar Institution of the "Guest Worker" program? Will they be enticed by the opportunity to pay a $2000 fine and back taxes? Maybe the chance of being registered and tracked by the US government will seem attractive to them after all those years off the grid. Certainly being ordered to learn a foreign language, English, must have illegals all excited and eager to begin night classes.

Why would people who have fled the corrupt Mexican system, where la mordida rules every encounter with government officials, suddenly decide that ICE is their friend and savior? Especially since virtually the entire US government has declared that they are beyond the reach of law enforcement?

And what will we do when they, in their millions, don't come?

Cross-posted at The Dread Pundit Bluto, Stop the ACLU, and Vince Aut Morire.

Posted by: Bluto at 11:54 AM | Comments (34) | Add Comment
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1 Same arguments I heard in '86. Government said only 1 million would come forward for amnesty. Over 3 million showed up.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at May 17, 2006 12:01 PM (WOQ34)

2 I'm with MCPO. Illegals will rush to get this like hamsters to bread. Like Paris Hilton to cameras. You make being illegal sound great. Truth is, being legal is their dream, the way I see it. You don't have to worry about getting in trouble, and getting deported. (Whether it is a realistic fear or not, it is a widely felt one--like your fear of being killed by islamofascists for blogging, only much more realistic). You can vote, and qualify for federal benefits. You have clear and obvious rights. And--you get paid a lot more, and can unionize. Employers can't rip you off quite so easily. A lot of illegals get hired for a day, a week, a month, and then--guess what? Don't get paid, because their employer knows that there is no way to enforce an illegal contract. So yeah, they'll take this with both hands, and pay $2K, whatever it takes. I think the key is, secure the border, or another 12 million come. Whatever it takes. Build a wall if necessary. But we cannot have an unmonitored, uncontrolled border, not after 9-11 most especially. A long hard road to earned citizenship is the only solution for the 12 million already here (if for no other reason than millions of them have US citizens who are children...can they all stay at your house after you deport their parents?)

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2006 12:28 PM (aqTJB)

3 Every last illegal immigrant I know wants in, because they *do* actually pay taxes (those that do not work in contractor jobs such as construction, at least,) and their work status (read: their employment) is tenuous at best. Every last illegal, that I know at least, is pursuing avenues to citizenship here, not just being a 'guest worker.' So that might be something to consider as well.

Posted by: MiB at May 17, 2006 12:49 PM (Uesws)

4 jd, I recently received my fourth death threat. Your continued stupid remarks about this issue is why I continue to place you in my "dumbass" commenter category, but I do make some allowance because you're still young and foolish enough to think yourself immortal. A couple of brushes with death might cure you of this naivetÃƒÂ¨.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 17, 2006 01:06 PM (RHG+K)

5 This is really good reading on the history of the initial amnesty of 1986 and how it's been extended and expanded trough 2000. http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/amnesty_print.html

Posted by: Oyster at May 17, 2006 01:25 PM (ASk6Y)

6 MCPO Airdale: That may just prove that the government wildly underestimated the number of illegal aliens here in '86. I've heard estimates as high as 30 million for the true number here today. MiB: You'll forgive me if I take your comments with a large grain of salt; you being an obvious supporter of the corrupt Mexican government and all, and having virtually no loyalty to the US... There's another related unasked question: everyone assumes that illegals send half or more of their salaries to Mexico to support families there, but many are, in fact, building savings accounts for themselves so that they can eventually return and live the life of luxury. How large is this faction?

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 17, 2006 01:29 PM (RHG+K)

7 I just recieved my 4500th penis enlargement ad over email, DPB. I think it is as likely that my trouser snake becomes porn star size as you are in any danger whatsoever. (It's very close as it is, of course...) You raise a good point about the estimate of illegals could have been off in 1986, and could well be off today. It's what Rummy would call a "known unknown." But I still think legal status is the holy grail for most immigrants. There will be an initial convincing period, but the leadership of the community will do that. As for saving for palatial residences for "themselves". WPost did a great series about El Salvador, and how many immigrants are building "palaces" for themselves back home (that cost 30 to 90K to build, a fortune down there). But I don't know how you can distinguish between Jose who saves to build his famiy a home, and Jesus who saves to build "himself" one. He gets to live in it, either way. Unless you meant building savings accounts HERE? to live the life of luxury here? I consider that unlikely. 90K doesn't buy too much house in most of America, and you need to make a lot more to get by. When I was in Mexico last month, I heard about a lot of Americans who retire down to border areas of Mexico, because you can live like a king on 10K or 20K a year. And you can hire someone to clean your house, be your nurse, for even cheaper in Mexico than you can get illegals in America. Of course, you are signing up to live under a capricious government corrupt beyond the worst days of Chicago...

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2006 01:42 PM (aqTJB)

8 I agree. They will not come forward. They already have what they want, our jobs, free education, free healthcare, and many other government benefits thanks to American socialists and do-gooders.... The U.S. anchor baby policy guarantees that this will never change....... At least they can't vote. And NEVER should. Let them go home to vote for Vicente (the liar) Fox, and lock the door when they leave.

Posted by: n.a. palm at May 17, 2006 01:52 PM (iO83U)

9 The speech was very clear: from now on, any foreigner willing to go legally in the United States in order to work there will have to communicate his fingerprints while entering the country.They will have to subject themselves to these procedures, formerly only imposed to criminals and to spies, not to immigrants and visitors, and even less to citizens. Indeed, Bush said in his addresses on Immigration Reform: Â“A key part of that system [for verifying documents and work eligibility of aliens] should be a new identification card for every legal foreign worker. This card should use biometric technology, such as digital fingerprints, to make it tamper-proof.Â” The proposal launched by president Bush to deploy the National Guard at the Mexican border and to introduce sophisticated electronic devices is only part of a brilliant communication strategy. Its actual function is not to protect the border, but to direct public attention far from the true reform set in motion by the Bush Administration: biometric security. http://www.magmareport.net/biometrics.html

Posted by: Magma Report at May 17, 2006 01:53 PM (ypMce)

10 http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/006027.html If you do not think urban democrats are registering and allowing illegal's to vote think again. The last Governor's election was stolen by the dems by a 124 vote margin. How many aliens voted? The polls in King county are run and administered by the dem machine. You can walk in to a precinct and get a provisional ballot and not even be on the voting rolls. Over 50,000 were counted in King County in the 2004 election.

Posted by: Brad at May 17, 2006 02:03 PM (3OPZt)

11 jd, do you wear a seatbelt when you drive? Why bother? The odds are vanishingly small that you will get in a car accident at any given time. I suggest you lead by example by posting your real name, phone number, and both your George Mason University and home addresses. I won't follow suit, but at least you won't look like such a phony hypocrite.

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 17, 2006 02:06 PM (RHG+K)

12 I don't trust this government, I don't care which party is in power, to be thorough and discriminatory enough. They are never efficient nor thorough. Furthermore, I'm concerned that in the meantime, while congress is trying to one-up each other on who is the most compassionate to those who are here illegally in order to secure their votes when and if they become citizens (it's just disgusting to watch them), they are rushing the border in record numbers to get here and take advantage of the situation. How quickly can the National Guard get deployed to the border and get it secured? Judging by everything else the government does, nothing significant will be done for months. Just watch these congress critters. They won't just extend this "sort-of-amnesty" to the workers and their families who are here, but their families in Mexico as well. This means spouses, children and parents. This whole deal will be handed to them on a silver platter and we can take the number of those who do "go for the deal" and multiply it by four or more.

Posted by: Oyster at May 17, 2006 02:25 PM (ASk6Y)

13 The government has draged it's heels for over 35 years on this issue alone. It will now talk about doing things like building part of a fence to calm folks down. But, what will really happen is soon there will not longer be Canada, United States, or Mexico. There will be a North American Trade area. This is what Bush, and the other memebers of the CFR are working so hard to make happen.

Posted by: Leatherneck at May 17, 2006 02:45 PM (D2g/j)

14 One of the things that many don't understand is what do the illegals want. You might be surprised to know they don't want to live here. The vast majority of illegals I know, yes that's many, are sending over half the money they earn back to Mexico for deposit in accounts so they can buy a house there and raise a family. It really is all about the money. If there were decent jobs in Mexico they would have never came in the first place.

Posted by: bill at May 17, 2006 02:47 PM (7evkT)

15 Bluto: "Blah blah you support the mexican government blah blah" Man, you're really reaching, aren't you? Now that you've got absolutely nothing you have to blanantly make stuff up. You belong in the democratic party, Bluto, you'd be in good company.

Posted by: MiB at May 17, 2006 02:59 PM (Uesws)

16 Just read that the senate passed 370 miles of fence construction. Yeah!!!!!!!!!!! good fences will make much better neighbors.

Posted by: Heroic Dreamer at May 17, 2006 03:04 PM (aH6Zf)

17 You've had four death threats and I only got one? Bastard!

Posted by: Vinnie at May 17, 2006 03:55 PM (/qy9A)

18 I don't post my addresses just because I like posting anonymously, not because I think I'm in any danger. Hell, I think IM has threatened to liquidate me on several occasions. I haven't upped my insurance. Deep down, I know he's really a sweet old guy. Driving kills more Americans than just about anything. If you show me where islamofascists have killed Americans for blogging, I'll take it seriously. But this immigration debate is getting interesting! I don't think they get "free health care" anymore than poor Americans do. That means, yes, if you have emergency medical needs, it's paid for. But if you injure yourself building a house in a non-OSHA worksite, you don't get anything. You don't get dental, you don't get chronic, you don't get check ups. You don't get treatment on a regular basis (there are free charity clinics, but hey, that's those damn Christians screwing everything up again!) Illegals get very few government benefits, and it is largely determined by the state electorate. Plyler v. Doe did say their children had the right to a public school education, and while I support a massive wall if necessary, I also support educating the ones who are already here. Otherwise, we'll end up like France.

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2006 03:56 PM (aqTJB)

19 jd: cowardly hypocrite. MiB: you think Republicans should be in favor of open borders, as you are? Are you retarded?

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at May 17, 2006 05:22 PM (RHG+K)

20 I just saw two families of illegal aliens. I want to help the poor, but we have enough poor in this country already without increasing the load. Check out the Heritage fondation web site, and subject on who uses welfare the most.

Posted by: Leatherneck at May 17, 2006 05:25 PM (D2g/j)

21 NO U Yawn. You're a supposedly grown man, Bluto, act your age. Name calling is the last refuge of a man with no argument.

Posted by: MiB at May 17, 2006 05:27 PM (Uesws)

22 You know, jd, I strongly support education of these kids, but often the parents negate all of it by not caring enough to become involved or encouraging them. And it's not just a problem with the illegals. The hard part is simply teaching foreign children to communicate fluently and many schools are working against us in that regard. They're mandating that the teachers be bilingual and have classes accomodating them without the bother of teaching much if any English. That's the biggest barrier we face with the children. Parents often don't encourage them and every day they go home to a household where not a word of English is spoken. There's no motivation.

Posted by: Oyster at May 17, 2006 06:01 PM (YudAC)

23 Only 4 death threats ? I live in Manhattan on 105th Street I get that many each week over parking spaces. Bluto if someone really wanted to kill you why would they wish to warn you ? Just to make it more sporting ?

Posted by: john Ryan at May 17, 2006 06:04 PM (TcoRJ)

24 Oyster, I agree that bilingual education is a problem when it works the way you describe. But that type of bilingual education is on the way out, all across the country. You know who is its greatest opponent? Immigrants. They don't want their kids handicapped, economically. They want them speaking English. They want them to be better off than they are. It's tough for them to say it to us, perhaps, because their English sucks, but that's what I've been told. I used to teach English to immigrants, from ages 15-72! The enthusiasm was unbelievable. They didn't want bilingualism--they wanted English. The transition points from partial immersion to total immersion get shorter all the time. In my county, the only bilingual schools have huge waiting lists--because native parents want their kids to grow up knowing two languages, and the best way to do that is learn it before you are ten. And if you look at anti-immigration literature from the 1870s, 1890s, 1920s...they said the same thing about Italians, about my own Jews and Yiddish, about Germans...yet all those groups lost their language in two generations. Mexicans are present in greater numbers, as ONE group. They are also bordering their mother country. They also have a large population of non-Mexican spanish speakers. For all these reasons, you are right to be more concerned about it than they were in 1870 about Yiddish. But I believe, in the end, that the force of English, in culture, in economics, in politics, will inevitably win. If you only speak Spanish, it is condemning yourself to lower salary and fewer cultural and romantic choices. In fifty years, many of the children of immigrants will have pretty poor Spanish. In seventy, their grandchildren will be true Americans--monolingual! I went to a high school where SEVENTY languages were spoken. English kicked all the other languages' asses. It's winning world wide, it will win in Tucson and Los Angeles and even, someday, in Miami.

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2006 07:29 PM (aqTJB)

25 Well, regardless of what anyone else says or does, I'm heading down to the border in a little over two weeks to spend a week with the Minutemen. I intend to do everything in my power to stop these illegals from entering the US. We need more. It's time for lazy Americans to get off our asses and stop this crap, because the government isn't about to do it. I have a concealed carry license valid in Texas and I am going armed. I will protect myself. I will protect my country. It is time to stop this invasion, and this is truly an invasion, no one can question that. It must stop. And we have the power to stop it. Now.

Posted by: jesusland joe at May 17, 2006 08:21 PM (rUyw4)

26 This whole charade is making me want to wretch. We have a president so stupid that he actually thought a provision in a previous immigration bill requiring aspiring citizens to "promise to be upstanding citizens" would work. Probably work as well as the enticements to pay back taxes and be tracked 24/7. What imbecile is coming up with these hairbrained ideas?

Posted by: Richard at May 17, 2006 11:16 PM (7KF8r)

27 You're correct jd. But that's why the flow has to slow down. I grew up just outside of Miami. There are areas there where no one, absolutely no one, speaks English still. Many of these areas have the most crime and the least income. I grew up with lots and lots of Cubans and Seminole Indians. I lived in Key West for ten years after that with a large population of Cubans. I found that those in Key West "all" spoke English and I would confidently say that it was because the mix was really mixed. There isn't a "Cuban neighborhood" in Key West. Everyone deals with everyone else. Total immersion is the key. Yet in Miami they holed up in separate communities and effectively cut themselves off from the rest of the population creating their own subculture and standards. Cops HAVE to be bilingual, teachers HAVE to be bilingual and yet, they don't apply the same standard to themselves. Their children are bilingual, but as long as the influx of immigrants exceeds the rate of true integration those neighborhoods remain cut off. I've worked with a Mexican guy just this past couple years who has a green card. After two years he still won't speak English, he won't even try. A word here, a word there, but that's all. I introduced him to a friend I know who teaches ESL and hooked him up with free instruction with my friend. He wouldn't show up. He's now had two DUIs as well. After two years he is still washing dishes. He works like a dog and we would gleefully upgrade him to a cook's position so he could make more money, but as long as he can't speak or read English, it won't happen. He can damn sure calculate his paycheck though and act indignant with much waving of arms as he learned one phrase, "More money!" The fact is, we don't pay him slave wages and he makes more that the other dishwashers because he works so hard. Eventually he quit and went elsewhere for work. He was back in my office last week trying to communicate that he wanted his job back. I didn't have room for him and had to tell him no. And yet I still worry about him.

Posted by: Oyster at May 18, 2006 06:15 AM (YudAC)

28 Fascinating and very real story, Oy. I agree that we need to control our borders, stop illegal immigration as fast as possible. If it takes a militarized border, so be it. I'm not for deporting the 12 million who are here, but I'm for making it impossible for another 12 million to come. Nowhere on earth does a nation as rich as the USA border a nation as poor as Mexico. Nowhere. And the countries to the south of Mexico are significantly poorer. If we don't control this border, we are in for a downward wage spiral. And that's just one of many problems.

Posted by: jd at May 18, 2006 09:10 AM (aqTJB)

29 u clearly need mental help. grow the fuck up

Posted by: isabelle at May 19, 2006 09:38 AM (1E41r)

30 Hey Oyster. How you doing. I to went thru the Me am ee experience. I have a home on Coral Reef Drive (153rd SW) near the zoo entrance. After, four years in Me am ee I noticed my children speaking with an accent. No wonder. I went to the school and found that my kids English teacher spoke with a heavy hispanic accent. Moved back to Northern California were I found that Two Rock elementary school was badly in need of funds. Why? Because they had to hire spanish speaking interpreters for illegals who couldn't speak English. It's everywhere, it's everywhere. Hiding in Mississippi. Katrina, Mexican workers everywhere. Is it going to happen here too. MUSLIMS IDIOTS, LIBERAL IDIOTS. What the hell is happening? Illegal works steals social security card and illegally works for a few years and gets social security benefits for life. Social Security going bankrupt. Illegal dies. Eleven kids in Mexico get Social Security from United States. Ahhhhhhh!!!!! Our enemies are right. We are stupid.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 19, 2006 09:30 PM (AWtJU)

31 Much to my chagrin I was between jobs and standing in a long line with " South of the Borderians " at the employment office in Miami. A clerk came to another window an uttered something in Espano~l. As dozens of Cubans and Hispanics rushed to line up at the window, the clerk repeated in Englisa: " This window is now open ". I found myself at the end of the line, again. Start getting used to reading road signs in Spanish/English. Not long after that you will read Spanish/Arabic/English signs. Coming to a local highway near you!

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 19, 2006 10:27 PM (FCC6c)

32 Hey Rooster. I know exactly where you're at. Haven't been back to spend much time in South Florida, or Miami for that matter for many, many years, but I go to Key West every year for the mini bug season. My brother lives in Hollywood very close to our old home. Since you've talked at length about the Katrina victims and who's helping rebuild and who isn't, I've been listening to a lot of news reports about the rise in crime in cities which have offered refuge to many of those who fled New O and decided to stay in their new host cities. Even here in Jacksonville, our crime has risen notably and the murder rate has doubled. A lot of the churches here tried to do the right thing and offer housing and help to Katrina evacuees and I think now we're being bitten in the ass for it.

Posted by: Oyster at May 21, 2006 04:50 AM (YudAC)

33 NO is a cesspool which God tried to wipe off the map. It is evil city. Evil people are drawn there like magnets, attempting to outdo whatever the last horrific crime was. NO is surely the Devil's playground. Happens to be below sea level. Now their evil spawn have scattered amongst their host cities, bringing their evil with them.

Posted by: Last gasp Larry at May 21, 2006 09:28 AM (FCC6c)

34 The mayor of the chocolate city ray (dipshit)negin says agrees that God destroyed New Orleans. However, he has publicly announced that God did it because of the war in Iraq. AND this idiot was just reelected buy people more backward that the Iraqis. Walking the back streets of Bagdad is not as dangerous as walking the back streets of NO.

Posted by: greyrooster at May 22, 2006 07:42 PM (pSK/I)

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Islamic Terrorist Attacks Turkish Court, Murders Judge

Although the BBC describes the man as a Â“gunmanÂ” the fact that he yelled, Â“Allahu Akbar!Â” as he opened fire leads me to believe that Â“Islamic TerroristÂ” is a better description. But even that description is getting a bit ordinary and meaningless.

BBC: One of the wounded judges had been criticized for ruling against teachers wearing Muslim headscarves, and had reportedly received death threats...
...The attacker was apparently carrying papers that identified him as a lawyer - although it is not known if these were genuine - and made it past security guards undetected.
He reportedly burst into a committee meeting of the Council of State, the top administrative court, at 1000 local time (0700 GMT) shouting "Allahu akbar" (God is great) as he fired his weapon.
Tansel Colasan, deputy head of the Council of State, said the attacker yelled "I am the soldier of God", and said he was carrying out the attack to protest against the court's decision on headscarves.

IÂ’m working on a new term so far I have, Â“Crazy fools who follow Islamic clerics that preach directly from the Koran that cold blooded Murder and terrorism is an activity that is sanctioned by Allah. Because if you canÂ’t organize yourself in a way to fight fair and win, random murder of innocents is the next best thing.Â” IÂ’ll see if I can shorten that up into a new shorter and PC term like gunman.

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Inhaling The New Spirit Of The Blogosphere

Because public de-linkings are so...2005.

Inspired by this one and this one I say:

Howie, you're fired. And don't you worry, Rusty will get his when he gets back.

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UAE Diplomat Kidnapped in Iraq

Another war crime in Iraq, an UAE diplomatic official has been kidnapped in Iraq. The kidnapping and murder of diplomatic officials in Iraq has been a hallmark of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and al-Qeada.

Reuters : A United Arab Emirates diplomat in Iraq is believed to have been kidnapped, the UAE's state news agency WAM said on Tuesday.
It said that contact was lost with one of the diplomats based in the UAE embassy in Baghdad. "We believe he has been kidnapped," WAM quoted a foreign ministry official as saying.
He said the UAE was actively involved in humanitarian efforts in Iraq and is closely working with the Iraqi government and regional states to protect Iraq's unity, WAM reported.
Iraqi police sources said on Tuesday evening gunmen broke into the house where the UAE diplomat, Naji al-Noaimi, was staying and abducted him. They gave no further details.
"We lost touch with him," Noaimi's brother Mohammed told Dubai-based Al Arabiya TV by telephone. "Everyone knows that the UAE embassy is doing a lot of good work in the humanitarian field," Mohammed said, his voice choking up in tears.
More than 200 foreigners and thousands of Iraqis have been kidnapped since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Last year, al Qaeda militants in Iraq killed the Egyptian mission chief in Baghdad, two Algerian envoys, and two Moroccan embassy staff. The group has sworn to kill other Arab diplomats if their countries recognize Iraq's government.

It does seem to fit the pattern of al-Qaeda to kidnap and murder those attempting to help the people of Iraq even fellow Arabs. Many times these high value diplomats and other hostages are held while the terrorist release demands that the target nation withdraw all assistance from Iraq.

The trend IÂ’ve noticed lately is that while the Sunni/baathist insurgernt groups are co-operating with al-Qeada, the al-Qaeda methods of car and suicide bombing are being replaced by the more direct targeted killings.

This man is a diplomat and kidnapping or harming his is against all the principals of war. He must be released immediately. One email calling my attention to this issue suspects that only ZarqawiÂ’s al-Qeada in Iraq would stoop so low. He also feels itÂ’s likely he will appear in a video or be killed. Knowing al-QaedaÂ’s record, IÂ’m afraid I agree. Our thoughts go out to this mans family and the UAE. We pray he will be released quickly and safely.

The Jawa Report will update as more news becomes available or if any demands surface.

Jawa Report Hostage archive here.

Related : Still no word on American hostage Jeffrey Ake who was kidnapped while working to supply fresh water to the people of Iraq.

Posted by: Howie at 08:57 AM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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WTW Big Kitty Kitty, Dead Kitty Kitty

I went most of my whole born put together without seeing a Bobcat or Lynx. Grandpa tells me he has only seen a few in his 84 years. They were already very rare where we live in by 30Â’s. But since the reintroduction of turkeys a decade ago their numbers have increased steadily. They support quite a few predators weÂ’ve not seen much of. We have even some reports of the odd cougar the last few years. But the main beneficiary has been the smaller lynx, bobcats and coyotes.

The coyotes look fat and happy and even though the cats are very shy IÂ’ve seen three in the last two years. Found my fourth this weekend just across the road from my house. He had been struck by a car. ItÂ’s a shame, not the way I wanted to find one. On the good side he was a big male not a nursing female. So hopefully old Tom Lynx has some offspring nearby and the next pic I get will be of them. My digicam was down(charge) when I first found him so I did not get the best possible pics. When I found him he was as big as my medium size dog. About 40 lbs, a strong fine well fed animal. Hate to see him hit that way. No I donÂ’t think they are dangerous. DonÂ’t mind a cat or two, keeps down the varmints. But the wildlife here in Bumfuct has been making a comeback. Bald Eagles, Blue Herrons, turkeys and some medium sized predators are more comon. And thatÂ’s nice to know. IÂ’ll put the pics in the extended warning they are not very pretty. Maybe next time I hope. more...

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1 So cool. I always root for predators to return. Never seen a cougar, bobcat, lynx...although in twenty years of living in a relatively urban/suburban mix, I have twice seen foxes at around 3am. Thrilling. And bald eagles nest nearby, and I've seen those. Eagles and other predators are vital to the eco-system. There should be more wolf-re-introduction.

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2006 10:50 AM (aqTJB)

2 I only have one Bobcat story. Several years ago Mission Control (my wife) and I took a group of cub scouts to the zoo. There's a place in the zoo with kiddie play thingies right next to some cages containing wildcats, including the bobcat. While waiting for Mission Control to finish up at one of the kiddie play areas, the cub scouts were admiring the bobcat across the way. Suddenly, the bobcat jumped up and bit the head off a bird that had perched in its fence, head on the inside and body on the outside. The bobcat got a nice snack and the remainder of the bird fell outside the cage. To this day, the boys still talk about it.

Posted by: Anachronda at May 17, 2006 11:16 AM (Y7t14)

3 Oh, and if you see a bald eagle, remember to hug an enviro-wacko, tree-hugging liberal. The comeback of the bald eagle is one of the great achievements of the environmental movement (although the removal of DDT has been a mixed bag for the third world). And yeah, a lot of Republicans like the late great John Chafee deserve credit. %%%%%% The number of bald eagles in the lower 48 states reached an all-time low in 1963 when there were only 417 documented nesting pairs. The decline began with the arrival of the Europeans and the settlement of the continent. The bald eagle faired poorly against man's enormous consumption of natural resources. The dwindling food supply and scarce undisturbed roosting areas resulted in reduced bald eagle survival rates. To make matters worse, the birds were being shot and poisoned by ignorant ranchers who thought eagles were killing their livestock. By the 1950s, even eagles that had survived man's direct assault by inhabiting remote areas began to exhibit alarmingly low reproductive rates. Eagle watchers determined that a high percentage of mated pairs were not nesting. Even when eggs were laid they seldom hatched. The National Audubon Society initiated a census and study of bald eagles in 1960 to assess the impact of the declining reproductive rates. Research studies conducted during the early 1960s indicated that the cause of the bald eagle's rapid decline was the overuse of insecticides such as DDT. Poisons used to kill insects at the lower end of the food chain accumulated and increased in toxicity at the upper end of the food chain. The effect on eagles depended on the level of toxicity. For the higher levels the birds became infertile or were too sick to nest. For lower levels the laid eggshells were so thin that the weight of the bird during incubation crushed them. In 1972 the Environmental Protection Agency banned almost all uses of DDT in the United States.

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2006 05:39 PM (aqTJB)

4 A few million kids dead from malaria is a "mixed bag"?

Posted by: The Unabrewer at May 17, 2006 11:46 PM (CDwI3)

5 I have yet to see a bobcat or lynx, but maybe soon. Last weekend Mrs. fluffy and I saw a wild turkey strut through the backyard. We had a mild winter, which I suspect saw a lot more birds survive to spring.

Posted by: fluffy the spamhound! at May 18, 2006 04:42 AM (UxguT)

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Sandcrawler PSA

I have a meeting, please stand by. Howie will be back shortly.

Posted by: Howie at 07:37 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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May 16, 2006

Tonight's Double Entendre Post

Hey, it's not just illegal immigration that has people upset over bush.

Related.

I personally have no problem with either of those bush-related links.

UPDATE: I apologize, my 1st grade teacher, Mrs. Queef, would have rapped my knuckles for not capitalizing "bush."

Posted by: Vinnie at 10:14 PM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
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