September 10, 2005

All Your Money Are Belog To Us: Part II

If my dispute with the Classmates Dot Com scam is unfamiliar, and you're interested in taking such scammers to task, see the original post here. Classmate's response to my case, presented in an email, was to simply reiterate their right to extract funds from my account without my knowledge or permission, and to "compensate me" by offering to extend my "membership" by three extra months for free. Which is a little like offering someone a free bucket of scat. It's just the right attitude to take in a public relations strategy promoting a "helping hand" image for their company. The perfect mix of smarminess, cynicism, and untouchable arrogance.

So I'm giving them a little more "free" publicity, understanding fellow that I am.

Just in case it's not obvious, the implications of their claim that a "terms of service" contract--agreed to during the initial sign up of every client--covers any access to their customer's accounts that isn't vigorously and consistently resisted, basically amounts to a license to steal. Fundamentally what it means is that anyone who has ever signed up with this company had better have access to a good lawyer, or resign themselves to the possibility of having their pockets picked once a year, from now on...

Member Care wrote:

Hi Scott,

Thank you for replying. Florence is out of the office, but I'd be happy to assist you. I understand your concerns and frustration with the membership terms. Unfortunately, your membership is non-refundable as stated in the Terms of Service. However, I can offer you an additional 3 months for FREE. Please respond to this email and I'll be happy to update your membership.

And thanks for providing me another opportunity to share your "gotcha" emails with about 10,000 members of the public a day, some of whom are bound to be in your customer base. Please forward this email response, including this link to the aforementioned blog article, to someone on your executive staff willing to take personal and public responsibility for Classmates Dot Com's business practices, including your practice of unannounced and unpoliced "automatic renewals:"

All Your Money Are Belong To US.

The reason you're unlikely to get away with this much more, or the reason this practice of yours is probably going to become a big enough story to provoke a public response, is that it implies you have permanent access to the accounts of everyone who ever signed up for your service, without anyone being able to do a single thing about it. The only brake on the practice that there ever was is based on the supposed good faith of your company, which your refusal to give me a refund exposes as a myth. You would accomplish this little "trompe l'oil" by simply changing their renewal preference to "automatic" without their knowledge, providing them no notice of when their account is about to be, or has been, debited; and subsequently refusing to make restitution on the basis of a bogus "terms of service" contract. I have news for you, such "terms of service" don't cover fraud. But either a fraud investigation or a tort lawsuit would involve extensive discovery, during which time any emails or other messages that you delete, or any computer records you change, become actionable by themselves. And this also applie to any law firm you retain.

And this is nothing compared to the public relations cost to a company that markets itself as a compassionate and understanding service provider promoting romance and friendship, but which cynically regards the property of their clients the way a pickpocket looks at a Start Trek convention.

Simply put, I did not agree to your "terms of service" for any period other than that first year. Everything you taken since then has been taken without my authorization.

My mother taught me to regard what you're doing as theft. Maybe your mommy taught you something else, but I'm willing to bet there are more responsible mommies out there in the public than crooked mommies.


We're very excited about new features we recently introduced: Quick Notes, My Visitors and the redesign of our website. Quick Notes allows you to send or receive a pre-written note from another member. You can see how many people have come to your profile by viewing the My Visitors information. And, we recently improved the look and feel of our site. There are many more new features and benefits coming soon!

And I'm very excited about taking you to task for what is clearly an unethical, and quite probably an illegal, practice. And I'm betting that a lot of your current customers will want to know about this, as well.

We hope that you'll continue to find value by locating and staying connected with school friends, co-workers and military buddies.

I've told you before, I've never found an iota of value in your company or its service, which is why I've never knowingly renewed the service.

Scott, I hope this information was helpful. If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.

Well, I'm letting you know now. You can refund every cent you're ever extracted from my account without my authorization, and if you're smart you'll also issue an abject apology for your clearly anti-customer, anti-public, cynical and unethical business practices.

Posted by: Demosophist at 11:52 AM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
Post contains 900 words, total size 6 kb.

1 Just supporting the man did you not click the link? I assure you it's safe. You refund him and let me know I'll post that fact or he will. . So it might help it you gave demosophist his money back please. Pretty please with sugar on top. http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/116990.php September 09, 2005 "All your money are belong to us." A couple of years ago I joined Classmates.com as a premium, or "gold" member, on a trial basis.... ....But if that weren't basically just a cash cow for a scam, wouldn't my word be good enough? Unless, of course, they know they aren't providing any actual value... "Your money are belong to us," they say.......... ----- Original Message ----- From: Member Care To: Michael Howard Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:21 AM Subject: RE:'Classmates=001-803-798' Suggestions Hi Michael, Thank you for contacting Classmates. I'd be more than happy to assist you. I need a little more information from you – please reply to this email and let me know specifically what it is you need help with, and I will do my best to assist you. Thank you in advance for your time. I look forward to your reply. Sincerely, Paul Classmates Member Care Team. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Howard Date: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:20 AM To: Member Care (membercare@mc.classmates.com) Subject: Re: RE: Suggestions http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/116990.php ----- Original Message ----- From: "Member Care" To: "Michael Howard" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:17 PM Subject: RE:'Classmates=001-803-798' Suggestions > Hello Classmates Member, > > Thanks for contacting Classmates. We just wanted to let you know that we > received your email and we will get back to you as soon as possible. > You'll be hearing from us shortly. > > Have a great day! > > Classmates Member Care Team > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Howard > Sent: Friday, Sep 9 2005 11:17AM > To: Home [membercare@mc.classmates.com] > Subject: Suggestions > > Send Demosophist his damn money back

Posted by: Howie at September 10, 2005 12:14 PM (D3+20)

2 I hate to break it to you, but you've received a form letter. Your message to Classmates.com obviously got no more than the most cursory glance. I was fortunate; I never gave them a credit card number. So I have no idea if I still even have an account there or not.

Posted by: IO ERROR at September 10, 2005 12:15 PM (48Hov)

3 Oh not I've never paid em a dime I'm just playing with them blog games you know.

Posted by: Howie at September 10, 2005 12:17 PM (D3+20)

4 I did register a long time ago, but under a fake name and I never gave them my credit card. Nice reporting. Lets see how long it takes before their lawyer contacts you. You might want to update the 'Terms of Service' for accessing Jawa Report to protect you from the scum. Who the hell wants to get in touch with people they went to high school wih anyway.....

Posted by: Fred Fry at September 10, 2005 12:46 PM (RPY7Q)

5 Michael: Thanks for the support. I appreciate it. Hope it comes to something. IOE: I hate to break it to you, but you've received a form letter. Your message to Classmates.com obviously got no more than the most cursory glance. Well, if that's true and they're that disconnected from their customers it ought to be pretty easy to get a judgment against them in small claims, and to continue to ride them publicly and screw up their business model. One strategy that occurs to me is to obtain some sort of commitment not to do this from a competitor of theirs. That is, in lieu of this "gotcha" policy, the competitor offers to just give people who cancel a pro-rated amount, counting on actual provided value to retain clients. And the fact that Classmates is unwilling to do that, or to take even minimal steps to aassure that customers' accounts aren't accessed without their conscious authorization, ought to throw the value of their membership under a high contrast spotlight. In short, if all they actually have going for them is a confidence scam it ought to be pretty easy to pick their bones clean. Can you imagine the thousands of people they've ripped off this way, and thousands of small claims judgments that potentially could do more than assuage their "clients" sense of being exploited by their pockets picked by a theif? And eventually mainstream media might even pick it up. Now, there has to be an ambitious competitor out there willing to take the plunge, unless the only value for these extra-curricular alumni organizations is to use them as a confidence scam. In which case, that'd be a real good thing to know and make public. It might even be worth an article or two in a major media outlet. The theory of markets says it has to be so... This could be fun.

Posted by: Demosophist at September 10, 2005 12:55 PM (vCl5w)

6 Yeah right?

Posted by: Howie at September 10, 2005 12:56 PM (D3+20)

7 Uh I'm not holding my breath hope you aren't either.

Posted by: Howie at September 10, 2005 12:57 PM (D3+20)

8 Fred: Nice reporting. Lets see how long it takes before their lawyer contacts you. You might want to update the 'Terms of Service' for accessing Jawa Report to protect you from the scum. Heck, I'd love to have them sue me. It would practically guarantee that MSM would pick up the story. Plus, I've been pretty careful to make clear that the real issue is the potential for fraud and abuse that exists in the policy, and that the only assurance customers have that they won't be abused is the good faith exhibited by the company. Which, it ought to be clear, they've nullified by their refusal to refund money obviously taken without the permission of a customer. No good faith = no security against fraud and abuse. I'd love to see them sue me for making that case. As Glenn Reynolds is fond of saying: Double heh...

Posted by: Demosophist at September 10, 2005 01:04 PM (vCl5w)

9 Howie: Uh I'm not holding my breath hope you aren't either. It's win win for me and lose lose for them. There's almost nothing I can do that won't cost them more than they get by refusing to refund my membership. About their only hope of break even is to obscure the principles involved so that it's not too obvious that the only logical justification for their policy is that they can't actually provide any value that remotely approaches the fee they charge. If they did then a refund policy would be automatic, as it is with most retail firms. Their own dishonesty and ignorance makes them easy pickings. All it costs me is $39 and a little time. I don't even have to get dressed, and can sip premium beer without anyone even noticing. And that's the worst case scenario.

Posted by: Demosophist at September 10, 2005 01:11 PM (vCl5w)

10 LOL! This is hilarious! The exact same thing happened to me this week. I suppose I'm just a sophomore though...I'm only on year 2! GRRR!!

Posted by: Zuke at September 10, 2005 03:30 PM (gOd68)

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