Notice the leap to calling these deaths homicides. The ACLU bases these allegations on what? Their own word? They cherry picked 21 deaths from 44, and slapped them with the label of homicide. What I want to know is how this is any of the ACLU's business anyway, and who is funding this attack on the military. We've all seen the photos at Abu Ghraib, and investigations were put into place.
War is ugly, and you can be sure the ACLU, who feel the need to stick its nose in foreign affairs of war, will not be going after any of the killers that sawed off the heads of American contractors, or burned them alive! No, these are the ones the ACLU have decided to defend. How American of them.
One of these many, many, 21 deaths is even being disputed by his very own father.
I'm sure there are many other details in the other 20 cases that the ACLU failed to report, instead preferring to paint a picture of the American military as ruthless murderers. Other than anti-American propaganda, I really can't think of any reason the public needs to know about these things. The military have done their own investigations, and dealt out justice.
But the ACLU don't need "credible evidence", they have concluded all on their own authority that these poor terrorists were murdered. All 21 of them without doubt.
Oh, now I see! The ACLU are not concerned with soldiers who go overboard. They are concerned about "high ranking officials." They are concerned about our torture "policies." You've got to be kidding ACLU!
1) An endorsed policy of torture. Can we please see this policy, or is the ACLU making this up out of whole cloth?
2) High ranking officials knowing about these things and sitting on their hands. Can we please see this evidence presented ACLU?
3) The 21 alleged instances of homicide, at least one of which is being openly disputed by the father of the alleged victim, somebody you wouldn't exactly expect to be covering for the perpetrators.
In my opinion, the ACLU is full of allegations and empty on evidence. The whole rhetoric of this being some sort of conspiracy in the government being covered up by some mysterious "high ranking officials" is complete paranoia! If anyone were trying to cover this up, the DOD would have never released the information to the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the military have been going out of their way to prosecute anybody suspected of misbehaving. The question stands: Where is the money for this activity coming from? Well, we know where its not coming from!
1
It really is past time to prosecute the ACLU under the RICO act.
Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at October 25, 2005 12:04 AM (RHG+K)
2
its a pity that those Nazis the ACLU said had the right to burn down there{ACLU} office didnt actaully do it and save us all the headaches from these traitors to America....ahhhhh, what pay back that would be....commie lawyers on fire, leaping out of windows.....best thing that could happen
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 12:41 AM (IgomX)
3
I think you're incorrect, according to Democrats like "evil progressive" the ACLU support the troops, they just don't support the mission?
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 07:16 AM (CcXvt)
4
i read the report and it says HOMICIDE hello?! the aclu isn't faking it or doctoring it all. Here is a link that has the info you should check it out at least before yapping your mouths. http://www.anairhoads.org/politics/acludetdeaths.shtml
Posted by: DiDy at October 25, 2005 09:15 AM (92w/+)
5
I *think* the point that DiDy is eloquently trying to make is that the Department of Defense own conclusion is the deaths were homicide:
The ACLU examined a partial report where 44 deaths were listed. The organisation found that 21 were classified as homicides by the DoD
according to his link.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 09:28 AM (CcXvt)
6
Military cornors were the ones who determined the deaths to be homicide. Moral clarity is our best weapon against terrorism. Soldiers must remain disciplined under the most trying circumstances.
Posted by: john Ryan at October 25, 2005 09:34 AM (ads7K)
7
Screw moral clarity, skin the bastards alive if that's what it takes. How many childrens' lives would you trade for your "moral clarity" John? Hmmm?
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 25, 2005 10:10 AM (0yYS2)
8
Sorry, John, but I think moral clarity will count for nothing with the terrorists. It might for you, but truly, these same things have happened in every war America has been in, from the Revolutionary War through the present one.
Even in the good war(WWII) some GIs behaved badly. I'll never forget what a WWII veteran told me about the 3rd Army's trip through Germany. He said they stole everything of value that could be carried with them, but most disturbing to me were the rapes of the German women. He was ashamed, but passed it off to the uncertainties of war.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 25, 2005 10:27 AM (rUyw4)
9
you know what???...that moral shit is just that...shit....we are all human and like anyone else, soldiers, i dont care how well trained, can and do snap under conditions of EXTREME duress....how can you not???...are they robots???...no, they are flesh and blood and when you see youre buddies killed by some raghead wearing terrorist who gets to go to a prison camp and eat three meals a day, get a bed to sleep on and get an UNHOLY Quran to continue to practice his bloody cult and spit and threaten the guards everyday, what would you expect a few of these soldiers to get???...MAD, thats what and i dont blame them....atrocities where commited by both sides during WWII, though the Japanese commited some of the worse...yea, it doesnt make it right but you know what??....sometimes revenge does feel good, cuase i know, im a vengefull guy if you cross me in a bad way and im gonna get even and these terrorists arent soldiers by any def, and they sure as hell dont even act human, nothing but base animals...they dont have any Geneva protections...thats for enemy SOLDIERS...these terrorists wear uniforms, carry id???...NOPE....so that means they arent soldiers....oh, of course its all fine and dandy for them to set our guys on fire while still alive, right???...but we cant even burn two day old taliban corpses since it offends Muslims????...WTF is that crap???....this war has become so PC that its disgusting.....these Middle Eastern types dont understand kindess and forgivness...when will we get that...thats how they have been for thousands of years...thats a HUGE weakness to them and they use that against us.....if you want to defeat youre enemy, sometimes you HAVE to stoop to his level to let him know that you mean business and that youre going to kill him at all costs if he doesnt surrender.....whats it going to take for some people to realize this????..the terrorists setting off a chemical, biological, and maybe even nuclear weapon right there on the battlefield????.....why do you think that during WWWII Hitler refused to use chemical weapons that they possesed???...he knew that if the Germans dared to use them the British would use theirs on Germans and as crazy as Hitler was, he never dared to cross that line..why cant we do that know against an extreme enemy who wont have any reason to not use such WMD's when they know we wont even threaten them with such use....war is a dirty, bloody business....its not a time to hug youre enemy, its a time to kill him, any way possible, before he does it to you...PERIOD.. ...and if it means using psy-ops, do it...burn those S.O.B's......use the MOAB's, use napalm, and flamethrowers...whatever it takes to WIN, cuase if we dont have the will, we may as well throw the towel in the ring now
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 10:57 AM (IgomX)
10
All "moral clarity" aside:
If the Department of Defence have indeed labelled the deaths as Homicides, they are indicating a criminal action occurred.
This then belies the opinion of the ACLU that Soldiers are following orders from the Administration to "torture" and kill the detained.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 11:21 AM (CcXvt)
11
at least if they have been labeled murders, you know that there will be investigations and anyone found to have commited murder will be tried and punished accordingly...they have done it before and will do it again....i just dont understand why there is so much uproar for terrorists being murdered, after all there are murders commited in US prisons every day and no one complains about them????...why should forgein killers get more sympathy from the left than American prisoners...i just dont fathom the minds{???} of the left
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 11:27 AM (IgomX)
12
It doesn't look like anyone has pointed this out, but homicide means, essentially, 'did not die by natural causes or by suicide, death caused by something another person did.' It does not necessarily mean murder. The deaths warrant examination, I'm not sure what stake the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union has in all this aside from the right to know angle.
Posted by: slickdpdx at October 25, 2005 11:55 AM (MjGRu)
13
Is it not obvious in the post that the ACLU accusing "high ranking officials" of some "torture policy" is baseless? There is no "torture policy", thats a load of b.s. from the ACLU. Yes, some soldiers tortured the bad guys a little too much. yes, some were killed in the process. The military pursues and punishes this. What the post is pointing out is that the ACLU jumps the gun in creating some mythical "torture policy" endorsed by some "high officials." It could be true, don't get me wrong...but I see no evidence presented for these accusations of the ACLU.
Posted by: Jay at October 25, 2005 12:36 PM (2FcUc)
14
oh yea, i could just picture Rumsfield in a leather executioners get up, like in Mel Brooks History of the World....sure, ACLU.....what a bunch of commie they arw
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 12:48 PM (IgomX)
15
The ACLU position is nothing more than fund raising fodder for it supporters/followers. The left's approach since day one has been the shotgun approach. They are all over the map with issues/complaints - and nothing is selling beyond their own core groups.
Posted by: hondo at October 25, 2005 01:15 PM (ymtSt)
16
The ACLU the Atheists Communist and Lawyers Underground why don they revoke the ACLUs tax exempt status
Posted by: sandpiper at October 25, 2005 02:33 PM (6rkkO)
17
You mean the Anti-American Communists Lawyers Union, don't you sandpiper? Or maybe the American Criminal Lovers Union.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 25, 2005 04:21 PM (0yYS2)
18
After what I've seen and read here tonight, I'm just about ready to kick some ass. And if some ACLU shithead said anything to me, I damn well might start with him. I'm off to Cowboys, Maximus, so hold the fort down.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 25, 2005 08:27 PM (rUyw4)
19
Since Andrew Sullivan's gotten his knickers in a twist over this issue, I've take notes in books I've read of what Sully and the ACLU would describe as crime. I did a post back in June about accounts that I took out of a book about the 82nd AB during WW2:
http://southernbyblog.blog-city.com/bush_sadly_is_no_fdr_or_a_hanging_breaking_ball_from_sully.htm
I should also add then I recently read a book about the New Georgia campaign and 1 soldier recounted how he and another soldier tossed wounded Japanese off a cliff...As I note at the end of the post, if Sully and the ACLU really care about war crimes by American soldiers then surely they will want to track down any survivors from WW2 who committed "crimes" and prosecute them...
One last thing, based on the Laws of Warfare and the Geneca Convention, civilains carry arms on the field of battle are eleigibl immediate execution. We might miss out on some info that might prevent another 9-11 (or worse) but at least if US troops just execute the shitbags in the field then Sully, ACLU, and other Leftists won't have to worry and gnash their teeth over naked twister...
Posted by: MKL at October 26, 2005 12:52 AM (LxljN)
20
The detainees have not even been found to be terrorists. They are just people who have been picked up in the area, some are terrorists, some are not. But gee I have a little bit of a problem with the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave torturing people to death who haven't even been accused/much less convicted of a specific crime. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, not eternal bullying.
As far as killing them on the battlefield - war is war and what happens does. Beating a man in a cage to death - is cowardly and counterproductive. If a cop shoots a fleeing suspect who is armed, that's one thing. Shooting him at central booking is a crime. If the intelligence these terrorists has is that important - i'd like to know when Miss Cleo is showing up to talk to the dead. Then we might get some intelligence.
Posted by: yo at October 26, 2005 12:05 PM (Ty5IB)
21
Hey yo, whatever yer smokin' man, pass it around, I wanna trip like that and see shit like you do.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 26, 2005 02:23 PM (0yYS2)
22
The ACLU will allow you to kill your unborn baby but you cant have a christian prayer vigial
Posted by: sandpiper at October 26, 2005 08:59 PM (uPdgJ)
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