Lots of debate in an earlier post concerning the horrendous stick figure caricatures that are being posted here. The general concern seems to be that us Louvre-bound artists may alienate moderate Muslims. You know, our allies.
So, let's check in with our most moderate of Muslim allies, Turkey.
I'm feeling fairly alienated by our moderate Muslim allies at the moment. Anyone up for a little rioting and Turkish flag burning?
I'm not surprised by Busey and Zane's involvement. Busey went out of his way to belittle our military in the wretched Seagal flick "Under Siege" and Zane was nothing if not the epitome of eeevil conservative rich white guy in Titanic.
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Ever see the movie midnight express? Seems like the nation of pigs is grunting again.
If you don't understand that, go get the movie about William Hayes called Midnight Express.
Posted by: Andre at February 02, 2006 06:38 PM (bQ3vG)
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"Everyone knows that Americans have a good side. That's not what this is about."
As an American without a good side I find this offensive. Racial stereotypes hurt everyone.
Posted by: ShannonKW at February 02, 2006 06:53 PM (dT1MB)
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I have a good side, but it isn't turned toward lying, cowardly, murderous islamic scum. The sooner we're in full fledged war with all of islam the better.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 02, 2006 07:01 PM (0yYS2)
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I have a good side, but only my wife can see it.
Posted by: Vinnie at February 02, 2006 07:01 PM (f289O)
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Both actors had promising early careers but have really sunk to the bottom of the barrel these last few years - they did it for the money - and were had mighty cheap too.
Ha Ha - Busey as an evil Jew Doctor out for body parts and blood from the goyim! Where have I heard that before? I love it!
The plot - the wedding assault - why??? motive???? None really - except all American military people are nothing more than bloodthirsty savages looking for the chance to kill women and children! Ahhhh, but of course!
There is actually an odd lil' true story from a few years ago reference a confrontation with a Turkish SP OPS UNIT (in civilian clothes) and a US Mil unit. Buried by both sides but pops up now & then and has a role in the film. Rather glamorized and sanitized I hear.
If this thread gets any play, I'll fill you all in on the rumors.
This is Turkey we are talking about - they have a lil' identity crisis going on internally at the moment - and this film is an opportunistic part of it.
Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 07:05 PM (3aakz)
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Just think, the Europeans are about to let these people become a part of the Common Market. Once a part of the EU, the Turks are free to go to and from every part of Europe. I'll bet the kitchen sink that the Byzantines regret the day they ever allowed the Turks to come into Anatolia. I have a feeling the Europeans will have reason to regret the Turk entry into the EU as well.
Posted by: jesusland joe at February 02, 2006 07:32 PM (rUyw4)
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Just read on FT.com that European governments are caving and trying to apologize or explain their citizens desires to publish what they want. THis is just plain wrong. I have the impression that most of you have been tracking this a little longer than I have so forgive my naive incredulity at this but I am really - can't think of a word even... this is just so wrong. If I can see the fact that we are ceding our God given rights by being intimidated why can't European governments? They must think in the back of their minds that Americans will come bail them out.
Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 07:57 PM (aH6Zf)
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Improbulus Maximus: I agree. (with great reluctance, but reality is reality)
Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 08:00 PM (aH6Zf)
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Europeans don't have God given rights - they have State given rights - BIG DISTINCTION!!!!
What the State giveth - the State can take away - redefine - re-interpret - etc etc.
This is what the original Founder's understood oh so well!
If it doesn't come from a higher authority than man (any man), then it ain't written in stone!
Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 08:17 PM (3aakz)
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... and I'm even very religious - but I understand that so clearly!
Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 08:19 PM (3aakz)
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Whoa --- typed tooooo fast ----- word is NOT VERY RELIGIOUS
but every else remains the same.
Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 08:20 PM (3aakz)
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Hondo: OMG....you are right!
Of course, you realize that that means they are rudderless. Anything goes really.
It really will be modified Sharia in Europe before long. They won't do anything to stop it. Maybe I'm just panicking here but we AMericans have a huge problem on our hands -
I have a feeling you've already thought this one out. I told you, I'm a little late to tracking this...
Posted by: Patty at February 02, 2006 08:43 PM (aH6Zf)
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once again, with friends like the turks, who needs enemies
Posted by: Sona at February 02, 2006 10:09 PM (QAXSN)
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quite frankly when I read the synopsis of the movie I found it rather difficult to actually believe. But it is true they have actually made the movie as described I googled it and checked. The official movie website claimed it was opening today in the USA
Posted by: john ryan at February 02, 2006 10:47 PM (TcoRJ)
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John R
The film was made by/and for the secular Turk Left - and for the Euro Left whom they want to hang out with. Its also designed to appeal to Turkish islamist and other islamist elements - to give the Turk Left credibility in their eyes.
Turkey is undergoing some internal changes. Its been a secular nation which tightly controlled (and often oppressed) the islamists.
The Turk govt has predominately been controlled by the right/center all these decades - the Left wants it shot in charge (one reason they are so big on being Euro-nized) but ..... the islamist movement has returned and is growing.
As everyone knows - a secularize Left has no hope to power if islamists become dominant - and often - a shorter lifespan - n' definitely no belly-dancers!
So - invest a few million on regional PR.
Posted by: hondo at February 02, 2006 11:16 PM (3aakz)
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But sir, nobody ever worries about upsetting a Christian
That's because Christians don't blow themselves apart when they get offended, Muslims are known to do that.
Posted by: Matthew at February 03, 2006 12:15 AM (w09XI)
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>> "There isn't going to be a war over this," said Nefise Karatay, a Turkish model lounging on a sofa after the premiere.
Hmmmm, I wonder if that comment would be valid if an American studio made an epic film set in 1915, Post WWI Turkey. It would center around an Armenian newly-wed couple who are suddenly forced to take an extended honeymoon in the Syrian desert, along with over one million others. Inspired by real events. If it does well enough a sequel can be made, set five years after the first story.
Posted by: Graeme at February 03, 2006 04:54 AM (88DKD)
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Graeme, the Turks would holler like, excuse me, the proverbial stuck hog. Somehow seems appropriate that we all find out the Turks don't have a good side. As for your movie, it would be a epic worth seeing.
Posted by: jesusland joe at February 03, 2006 05:25 AM (rUyw4)
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LMAO JJ! "Hollering like a stuck hog" is a new expression for me. It becomes even funnier when applied to islamic indignation.
Posted by: Graeme at February 03, 2006 06:13 AM (88DKD)
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I think the moderate Muslims they talk about are not whole countries like Turkey, but the moderates in smaller numbers scattered about the globe who are our only hope in seeing Islam reform itself. These people who made this film are provocateurs. Just like our own Hollywierd.
Posted by: Oyster at February 03, 2006 06:16 AM (YudAC)
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love the "hollering like a stuck hog" applied to turks. anyone interested in seeing another "bad side" of these hogs should watch "the armenian genocide" a one-hour documentary, scheduled to air April 17th on PBS.
Posted by: Sona at February 03, 2006 07:18 AM (QAXSN)
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I'll watch it, sona, but I wonder whether it will be another whitewash of the Turks genocide of the Armenians. I can't imagine that the real story will be told, or if it is, the motives will be passed off as secular. Wouldn't want to offend the Mohammedans you know.
Posted by: jesusland joe at February 03, 2006 10:13 AM (rUyw4)
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In my opinion, this "valley of the wolves" movie is just commercializing on the wrong image that US has created over the last 3-5 years in the region. As it is the case in any part of the world including the US, the goverment and the media is quite capable of leading the public into the wrong direction/perception in order to gain popular vote or get more ratings/sell more newspapers (e.g. WMDs fabricated stories, early vietnam war stories vs. late vietnam war stories, cold war stories, France stories before Iraqi war and the whole french fries deal etc.) If I were you, I wouldn't take it very seriously.
Ps. I am up for the "Armenian Genocide" movie as long as it reflects the complete truth including the backstabbing by the Armenians fuelled by Russian supplies that has started all the mess.
Posted by: Huso at February 04, 2006 03:21 AM (K/6Dj)
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Hugo
Let's look at what was going on in the last 3-5 years during which you are claimig that US created "negative image" in that region.
1- 9 11 and countless other aborted attempts directly against US.
2- young men and women making the ultimate sacrifice to defend what US stands for.
3- Our President, always respectful of islamic faith which he declares is a "noble" faith.
About your PS: You are entitled to your opinion. however, the "treachery of Armenians" was actually fuelled by countless turkish(ottoman)atrocracies against Armenians, for centuries. one example is the massacre of 300,000 Armenians in Adana in the late 1800s. my own grandfather was the only surviving member of his family and grew up in a British orphanage in Harpoot. I happened, thanks to the British missionaries who also made the ultimate sacrifice to do what they stood for. the Adana incident in the late 1800s led to the "backstabbing by Armenians" which was actually the defense of the faith, life, property and honor of their people.
Posted by: Sona at February 04, 2006 10:18 AM (QAXSN)
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You finally nailed the reason for the genocide of the Armenians, Sona, when you said faith of the people. That was the real problem, as the Ottoman Turks were Muslims, and the Armenians were Christian. I have read accounts of the march of the Armenians to the desert in Syria. The only thing that Americans have to compare this to is the Bataan Death March in the Phillipines in WWII, and it was on a tiny scale compared to what happened to the Armenians. The brutality and inhumanity of the Turks is well demonstrated in the Armenian genocide, but frankly, the Turks were well practiced after having depopulated Hungary and many other areas of SE Europe between the years 1300-1800.
Posted by: jesusland joe at February 05, 2006 01:13 AM (rUyw4)
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The slightest research you will make into the Ottoman history will reveal that Armenians were not the only Christians living under the Ottoman rule for centuries, including the 1800s. Therefore explaining the controversy with religion is pure ignorism...Just like Sona, all generations of Turks since then have plenty of stories to pass on about the Armenian brutalities on Ottoman soil.
Posted by: deni at February 07, 2006 12:50 PM (0jJ6Y)
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deni
But you are absolutely right! Armenians were not the only Christians in turkey. Just ask what happened to the Greek Christians from Smyrna (turks would know the name of that city as "izmir") or Assyrian Christians (not Syrians) from the south-east region of Anatolia. What they will tell you will be horrifically similar to the Armenian history.
I think it will be a good idea if turks and their friends stopped denying the undeniable and stopped blaming the victims. unless of course turks have no desire to be a part of the civilized world.
Posted by: Sona at February 07, 2006 09:48 PM (vPec9)
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Well, I don't think Turks will ever apologize for defending their country against threats to divide it.
Posted by: deni at February 08, 2006 11:37 AM (0jJ6Y)
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I live in Ankara.
I haven't watched the film yet. I would doubt if it is any different from Rambo movies demonizing Russians or Arabs.
Most turks have no ill feelings against Americans . Their anger is against the policies of Bush administration.
US came into middle east like an elephant in a china shop. Rude, insensitive, violent, single minded and arrogant.
Bill Clinton was perhaps the most admired US president by Turks only After J.F.Kennedy .The guy had charms and intellect.He was playing saxaphone and knew how to entertain himself in the oval office.
By the way Vietnamese won the war but I have yet to see a good movie from the perspective of Vietnamese. Next movie can be "Valley Of Wolves, Saigon".
Posted by: ogog at March 01, 2006 02:44 AM (PqKJb)
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