1 As I said sometime back . . . We have to leave the Western Europeans to their own. It's their Immigration policies at work, and who are we (the Americans) to comment? Should we comment or attempt to help, we would appear to be just like them . . Monday Morning Quarterbacks . . Let 'em deal with the Muslims, lessee if they can do any better than we have! May be fun to watch, once it spreads to France . . . .

2 For some reason I don't believe the Dutch actually had the nerve to put a bomb in one of the schools of these muslim invaders. SOmething tells me they did it themselves to involk sympathy from the leftist sheep they wish to eventually slaughter. BAH BAH BAH dutch. Its similar to what happened in the US with Fat Al Sharptons Neice who claimed she was r*p*d by skinheads. Turns out she faked it so to I think this is a fake by muslims against muslims to blame their host population for it so that they can get special perks in the form of laws that make it an offense to sneeze near one of these toweled living gods. Just my view on this, I feel confident that in time we'll see the whose who and whats what of this.

3 LARGE: What do you mean when it spreads to France. Have you been there recently? The French must have traded places with the Algerians and Moroccans. Twenty more years and France will be a North African puppet state. Judging by their recent actions maybe they already are. After the Algerian thing these guys are scared stiff on anything with a rag on its head.

4 Here's the problem: ok, so we let it spread, then in 20 years or 50 Europe is a majority Muslim continent. Then what? We have Muslim domination of countries with a whole lot of nukes and stuff. Serious problem.

5 "ok, so we let it spread, then in 20 years or 50 Europe is a majority Muslim continent. Then what? We have Muslim domination of countries with a whole lot of nukes and stuff. Serious problem." Maybe...of course, by then, the U.S. will be majority Mexican. Maybe then, the Hispanic majority will be a little more tolerant to other cultures? Who knows. Seriously, it's their countries...if they want Muslims, that's their choice. It's not like every single Muslim out there is a bad person because of recent events, just like every single Christian isn't a bad person because of the Sabra and Shatilla massacres in 1982.

6 VENOM: The US will never be majority Mexican. Hispanic people that immigrate to the US become Americans within a generation or two. I'm amazed at how fast they intermingle with the rest of the population. Anyway, immigration will soon slow to a trickle. I expect we will close the doors to Muslim types which means we will have to close the door on others (it's a liberal play fair thing). Sabra and Shatila massacres? Sharon now a Christian? Been a long time but I thought Sharon's militias were blamed for that one. Maybe he armed some Christian types. I sure you can figure a way to show that palestinians have never done anything to drive people to slaughter them back. Maybe someone's children just got blown up? Live by the sword etc:. Where are all the Christians that lived in Lebanon before Hezzbolah sent it's Syrian and Iranian killers in. Answer dead. Mexican's 100% Catholic population more tolerant to other cultures. Man did you flunk history. Example: England/Ireland. Very tolerant. Catholic/Protestant can get along at times. It's a Christian thing. But Christians, Buddist, Hindus or any other religion will never get along with Muslims. It's an Islamic thing. For clarity: I think Israel in it's present location was a mistake. The Brits should have known the impossiblity of getting along with Islamic people. No one else in the world does. So to me they made a mistake. The end. Nothing can be done now. I don't have the answer. Do you? The palestinians should have a country. I do think it would be easier for them to be absorbed into other arab muslim countries. They will always consider themselves 3 class citizens in Israel. I also think the west is making a mistake by educating Islamic types in our universities. Sound nuts huh. Time will tell. If Iran makes a N bomb we will see. The west educated them. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb. They weren't ready. We worry about Pakistan/India and their constant threats to each other. In my view, if Pakistan/India gets into it, other muslim nations will get involved which will force the west to get involved. Anyway my major difference with you is that I believe in America. It's a winner. It's not perfect but it's far ahead of anything in second place. Better minds than I will come up with the solution.

7 RUSTY: I agree. This immigration thing is changing the face of the world. Never understood why we continue to need immigration. Ever been on a freeway in Los Angeles? Now, who in his right mind would say we need more people. Several states are running out of water because of over population. It's nutso. A bigger gripe is after many immigrate they complain and start trouble with the native populations. Don't make sense, look at Europe. Riots, hatred and so on. People immigrate to Europe and North America because their countries suck. Then they don't seen to appreciate their new country. I honestly think repatriation is the answer and not just stopping more immigration. I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT GERMANY, FRANCE, SPAIN AND MORE ARE NOT WITH US ON THE TERRORIST HUNT BECAUSE OF THEIR LARGE ISLAMIC POPULATIONS. They are afraid of internal strife. And of course. THE VOTE:

8 The USA is the best county in the world! If you think the US is overcrowded, try living in a country with 15 million inhabitants that's half the size of South Carolina. That's right, you guessed it: I'm talking about Holland. A clearer case for stopping all new Muslim immigration into The Netherlands until the current mess has been cleared up could not be made.

9 DUTCH EXPAT: Then why immigration? doesn't make sense.

10 As Bob Dylan said. How does it feel? It's like a rolling stone.

11 greyrooster: It's been pretty well documented that those that carried out the Shatilla and Sabra massacres were Christian militias operating under the approving eye of Israel. Hey, it wouldn't be the first time a foreign country had used foreign fighters to fight their battles. And, obviously, it wasn't the last. My point is that you can't draw conclusions on a religion of billions because of the actions of a minute fraction of that religion. Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews...all have done their share of killings and massacres. But we're not a planet of murderers. As a Christian, I don't consider myself a murderer because another Christian twisted the word of God and made his own interpretations on words written centuries ago. "The US will never be majority Mexican. Hispanic people that immigrate to the US become Americans within a generation or two." Not necessarily. And it depends on what you consider an "American." I don't know if you've opened your window lately, but the U.S. now is a lot different than 30 years ago. Many cultures based on many immigrants. Sure, they become American citizens, they may learn English...but many of them keep their cultural ties. You think it won't influence your "way of life?" And I'd bet that when these immigrants become American citizens, they're going to be looking to better the lives - which is the main reason people come to America, right? Which means, they're going to be looking for health care, job security, benefits...issues the Republican party has no interest in. Or, more accurately, less interest than the Democratic party. Piss and moan all you want, but that's how things are. "But Christians, Buddist, Hindus or any other religion will never get along with Muslims. It's an Islamic thing." Really? Hmm...what about all those close alliances the western world (read: the U.S.) has with Turkey (NATO ally, btw), Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Quatar, Oman, etc.? What about all those new (military) contracts GWB has signed with some of those Islamic countries that border Afghanistan? What about the arming and training of the mujahadeen during the Soviet control of Afghanistan - the same radicals, btw, that have caused all of the most recent Islamic fundementalist problems these days? C'mon, cultures and religions can get along and they can fight against each other, it just depends on the circumstances. Saying that Christians and Muslims can never get along is being pretty ignorant. "For clarity: I think Israel in it's present location was a mistake. The Brits should have known the impossiblity of getting along with Islamic people. No one else in the world does. So to me they made a mistake. The end. Nothing can be done now. I don't have the answer. Do you?" I completely agree with you that the state of Israel in its present location was a mistake. In fact, it might have been one of the worst mistakes of the 20th century. As for your comment that "no one in the world" gets along with the Islamic people, please re-read my above proof. The U.S. has fantastic ties with Islamic countries and does business with many of them on a regular basis. Just because YOU don't get along with Muslims doesn't mean the U.S doesn't. "I also think the west is making a mistake by educating Islamic types in our universities. Sound nuts huh. Time will tell. If Iran makes a N bomb we will see." I don't know what to make of that comment. What, is physics something the U.S. invented? Sharing isn't allowed? And what's an "Islamic type?" Do you mean, a Muslim? "The west educated them. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb. They weren't ready." Please explain what makes a country "ready." "Anyway my major difference with you is that I believe in America. It's a winner. It's not perfect but it's far ahead of anything in second place. Better minds than I will come up with the solution." Despite what you might think, I believe in America, too. I believe in the country that our ancestors made great. I believe in the country that was once the shining beacon in the world and that stood up for the average American, not the average American multinational. I believe in the country that would only put its soldiers in harm's way when it had a clear-cut reason, not a bunch of half-truths. And that when America does decide to go to war, there's an exit strategy, not a quagmire. I believe in the country that didn't let paranoia govern its foreign policy and run its citizens' lives. I still believe in America, but I have a sinking feeling that America doesn't belive in either me or you.

12 VENOM: As a hater of American policies you immediately skewed my comments to suit your agenda. I did not refer to American citizenship. I did not use a piece of paper as a guidepost. Some are Americans overnight, some never are. I referred to how quickly mexican people assimilate into the mainstream culture. Their work ethics, religion, food, music, etc: match much of the existing areas they mainly move to. Mexicans taking jobs? Which one took your mop and bucket? You want to pick the lettuce and tomatoes? Dig ditches? I don't. They fill a nitch that no one else wishes to fill. Of course they want social services. They earn them in the fields so we can eat cheaper and better. Comparing Mexican imigrants to Muslim imigrants is ignorant. Mexicans do not preach hated for America in their mosques. There are no Mexican clerics in Chicago preaching the killing of non Mexicans. No blind Mexican clerics planning to bomb the world trade center. And you use the word ignorant!! Of course you failed to answer where all the pre-war Christians in Lebanon are today. Of course you failed to answer why Sharon's militas would attack people in a refugee camp. Then use that same stupid excuse losers always use. Everyone else is ignorant. Us losers are the only ones that understand the issue. Only losers know anything. The rest of the population is dumb because they don't agree with us. They cheated. They follow like sheep. The other side is composed of mindless idiots. On & on. Nothing. Religion of Billions? Bullshit! how about 1 billion. There is also 1 billion Hindus, 1 billion Catholics. 1 Billion Protestants and 1 billion Chinese (whatever they are these days). The others in South East Asia are another billion. IN PLAIN ENGLISH MUSLIMS ARE A BIG MINORITY. Why do you play it like they are a majority. Furthermore, I would venture to say more than half the muslims in the world wish to hell they were not muslims. The ISLAMIC religion has been holding them back for centuries. Example: Hewlitt Packard corp. receives more international patents in a month than the entire middle east has in the last 20 years. I did not say physics was invented by Americans, so that is a purposeful mistruth coming from you. I purposely used the word the WEST, of which America is a part of. If you don't know what countries constitute the WEST, meaning the Western World. Then who is ignorant. The technology of atomic energy came from the west. What makes a country ready is this. You're ready when you do not allow religious fanatics to control your countries domestic and foreign policies. Anyone who thinks present day Iran is adult enough to have atomic weapons is IGNORANT. We armed the Mujahaheen to assist them in resisting a foreign government using modern weaponry. A secondary reason was to get back at the Soviet Union for arming people against us in the past. Before you start whinning, its merely a true fact. Nothing I would agree with. Was a republican in office then??? It's ignorant to think the ISLAMIC NUTSO's were doing anything but using us for a means to an end. Using the mujahadeen as an example of Muslims and Christians getting along is IGNORANT. Many of them turned that same weaponry against us the next day. So that's a piss poor example. Close alliances with the countries and organization you mentioned is a myth. The majority of problems in the world today are caused directly by the religion of ISLAM. Read the fucking news. Africa (the sudan, Nigeria). Middle east (Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Afganistan) Bosnia, the Philipines, Indonesia, Russia, India, Holland, Spain, England, United States, Thailand. All these countries and more are experiencing riots, beheadings, insurgency, bombings, and terrorism in the name of ISLAM. The list goes on and on. How can anyone be ignorant enough to blame this on Bush. Talk about ignorant! A religion is the problem. A horrible religion that condones these atrocities. A religion whose holy men yell death to America when discussing the manufacture of nuclear material (Iran this week). A religion whose fundalmentists believe in beating women for not wearing a veil. The horrors India experienced 50 years ago where caused by Muslims. The separation of India into 3 countries was caused by Ghandi's realiziing the Muslims could not get along with the other religions of India. He was the expert on the issue. He tried for years. Then realized separation was the only way. I agree with Gandi. The piss and moan issue you brought up. Are you kidding. It's you liberal democrats that are doing the piss and moan thing. Piss and moan about the election. Piss and moan about the poor Iraqis. Piss and moan about our elected president Piss and moan about our leaders Piss and moan about the war. Piis and moan about this blog. Never a solution. Never an workable idea. Never a constructive thing to say. Just piss and moan. Just a bunch of sore losers. This country is great and kind and giving. America has done more for the world than the rest put together. A nation or person that takes action will make mistakes. However if anything is to get done that nation/person has to stick his neck out for the do nothings to take a swing at. Those that do nothing are safe from criticism. Those that piss and moan about the doers are nothing. No heart, no character, no soul. Never took the lead in anything in their lives. Never won anything in their lives. Never fought for anything in their lives. Call that living? They know who they are. IGNORANT my ass. Look in the mirror. It's easy to read and write and quote. But Common sense will prevail. Attempting to get along with these ISLAMIC assholes shows a lack of common sense. Never has happened, isn't happening now and won't happen in the future. The practice of fundalmentalist ISLAM must be beaten and outlawed. The mugger anology by Rusty was a good example. How can you get along with people that use murder, bombing, human suicide and beheadings as a means to get their way. And they do it in the name of religion. The religion of ISLAM. I KILL YOU IN THE NAME OF ALLAH WHO IS ALL GOOD AND MERCIFUL. BULLSHIT!

13 "Mexicans taking jobs? Which one took your mop and bucket? You want to pick the lettuce and tomatoes? Dig ditches? I don't. They fill a nitch that no one else wishes to fill." What the fuck are you talking about? Do you not even think about the thousands of factory jobs that have gone south of the border because of cheaper labour found in Mexico than in the US? Please tell me you're not this stupid. "Of course you failed to answer where all the pre-war Christians in Lebanon are today." There are actually a lot of Christians living in Lebanon. I happen to have (Christian) friends whose relatives still live there. And their doing pretty decently. Again, please tell me you're not this stupid. "Of course you failed to answer why Sharon's militas would attack people in a refugee camp." Since you're dying for an answer: Simply, the Phalangist militia were retaliating for the assassination of Lebanese President-elect Bashir Gemayal. Now, WHY Israel would allow this to happen is a whole different question, with pretexts dating to before either you or I was born. I'd love to sit here and educate you why Jews and Muslims don't seem to want to dance and the sock hop, but I imagine it would be a waste of my time since you've made up your mind so long ago. "Then use that same stupid excuse losers always use. Everyone else is ignorant. Us losers are the only ones that understand the issue. Only losers know anything. The rest of the population is dumb because they don't agree with us. They cheated. They follow like sheep. The other side is composed of mindless idiots. On & on. Nothing." Actually, you're the one that's being pretty ignorant. I was speaking about you, not anyone else. Please get your facts straight: YOU are ignorant, and YOU don't get it. "Religion of Billions? Bullshit! how about 1 billion." How about close to 2 billion as of the end of 2000. I know this because I actually look things up. You don't know this because, as I previously mentioned, you're ignorant. "Furthermore, I would venture to say more than half the muslims in the world wish to hell they were not muslims. The ISLAMIC religion has been holding them back for centuries." You could venture to say this, but you'd only be speculating and you'd probably be wrong. "Example: Hewlitt Packard corp. receives more international patents in a month than the entire middle east has in the last 20 years." Do you wish you were Buddhist? I mean, Japan is a juggernaut of technological innovation. If a Muslim decides to turn Christian, is he suddenly showered with wealth? Because that's pretty much what you're saying. And equating "contracts" to a person's religion is pretty fucked up. Is this how you really think the world works? Seriously, what point is it that you're trying to make about Hewlett Packard? That because they get a lot of international patents, they're better than the Middle East? Yeah, probably. But so what? "I did not say physics was invented by Americans, so that is a purposeful mistruth coming from you. I purposely used the word the WEST, of which America is a part of. If you don't know what countries constitute the WEST, meaning the Western World. Then who is ignorant. The technology of atomic energy came from the west." No, but you commented that the west (which in your world, I think only seems to involve the U.S.) shouldn't educate "those Muslim types" and that the US shouldn't be sharing its knowledge. I mentioned physics as an example. You do realize that it was Muslim mathematicians who basically helped civilization along hundreds of years ago, right? Sure, atomic energy came from the west. A lot of it came from displaced German Jews. GERMAN, as in "FROM GERMANY," one of the countries you love to bash on a regular basis. But hey, if you can use Germany in an argument (in a backpedalling kind of way), then suddenly they're great, right? Trust me, I know what constitutes the western world. You, on the other hand, have your head so far buried up your ass you'd need a flashlight and two hookers to find it. "Before you start whinning, its merely a true fact. Nothing I would agree with. Was a republican in office then???" Yeah, actually. You might have heard of him. His name was Ronald Reagan, and he served two terms. You might also rememeber him as being a central figure in selling arms to Iran, another hardline Islamic country. Another example of a Christian country and a Muslim country doing business. But hey, we weren't supposed to find out about that, so maybe we shouldn't be talking about it. "It's ignorant to think the ISLAMIC NUTSO's were doing anything but using us for a means to an end." Yup. And it's also ignorant for thinking that it wasn't going the other way around, too. As an aside, I love how on the one hand you call them "mujahadeen" to justify the need for arming them, and then conveniently switch back to calling them "Islamic Nutso's." I guess changing the goalposts is something you do on a regular basis? "Close alliances with the countries and organization you mentioned is a myth." Nope. Wrong again. NATO is a pretty solid alliance, last time I checked. And the US continues to sign deals with those countries, solidifying already strong relationships. See? Christians and Muslims DO get along on a daily basis! "All these countries and more are experiencing riots, beheadings, insurgency, bombings, and terrorism in the name of ISLAM." It's pretty unfortunate and terrible, but when a fraction of a population acts in a certain way, it doesn't represent the charateristics of the total population. In statistical theory, these are called outliers, and they're routinely rejected from the analysis. Because a few thousand fanatics in a total Muslim population of 2+ billion decide to act like criminals doesn't mean that the other Muslims out there have criminal tendencies either. In fact, you earlier stated that "I would venture to say more than half the muslims in the world wish to hell they were not muslims." By this, you're implying that these Muslims wish they weren't part of this religion because they don't like what's happening in the name of Islam by these fanatics. And if that's the case, how can they ALL be bad? How can "a majority" of them be bad? You see? You contradict yourself left, right, and center. "A religion is the problem. A horrible religion that condones these atrocities. A religion whose holy men yell death to America when discussing the manufacture of nuclear material (Iran this week). A religion whose fundalmentists believe in beating women for not wearing a veil." Yeah, and of course, all other religions are completely peaceful...oh, wait, there's that thing called "human history" and every religion has committed atrocities. Each holy book of each religion is open to the interpretations of those who read them. A person who reads "an eye for an eye" in the Bible may one day become president and wage war on everyone. Does that condemn all Christians? Because of a FANATIC's actions and interpretations? You yourself even use the adjective "fundamentalist" to describe them - ie, a person who takes a hard-line view on everything. This isn't a religion of 2+ billion fundamentalists. If it was, you and I would have been gone long ago, along with all of our ancestors. "I agree with Gandi." Absolute, fucking bullshit. You don't know SHIT about Gandhi. He was THE proponent of non-violent resistence, something you haven't demonstrated once in any of these threads. And, on this topic, it was an intolerance between both Hindus and Muslims that created the separation of India. Gandhi...I can't fucking believe YOU of all people try to bring him into this to support YOUR arguments. "It's you liberal democrats that are doing the piss and moan thing." I'm actually a conservative, but I also call 'em like I see 'em. You might not like my criticisms about a party you hold dear to your heart, but who the fuck is going to call them on it when they fuck up? I'll vote for anyone that has the best interests of my country as his focus, and not those of the top 2% of the country. Just because I don't like Bush or his policies doesn't make me a "liberal democrat." It's convenient for you to label me as such, because your arguments are weak all over and you can't back up shit. How the FUCK can anyone vote for a guy who allowed 9/11 to happen on his watch, who could allow job growth to remain stagnant for almost 4 straight years, who caters to the FUNDAMENTALIST Christian minority, whose administrations LIED before its people and those of other countries as to WMDs in Iraq and the need to invade??? Gimme a fucking break. You would vote for a stick of celery if it had a Republican badge on. I don't like Kerry either, but I can tell you Bush was a complete disappointment. "However if anything is to get done that nation/person has to stick his neck out for the do nothings to take a swing at. Those that do nothing are safe from criticism." I'd agree with this, but this isn't what the Bush administration does. The Bush administration sticks up for its own (ie the rich and corporations), and no one else. "Attempting to get along with these ISLAMIC assholes shows a lack of common sense. Never has happened, isn't happening now and won't happen in the future." Islamic assholes, no. Muslims in general, yes. No one will want to talk/negotiate/deal with terrorists, and no one should. But the US has great relations with Muslim countries, and American Muslims get along great with Americans of other backgrounds. Just because YOU don't like Muslims doesn't mean that the whole world (or the majority of Americans) share your view. The world is changing, and you're getting left behind. "How can you get along with people that use murder, bombing, human suicide and beheadings as a means to get their way. And they do it in the name of religion. The religion of ISLAM." I've said from the very beginning that these are criminals that twist the word of God to suit their own agendas. No one is suggesting you get along with criminals. But, an extreme fraction of a large population doesn't embody the characteristics of the whole.

14 Getting left behind? Wanna bet. You run your mouth so much to don't listen to the majority. blab, blab, blab, blab. Nothing else but blab.

15 "the religion is the problem" no people like you are the problem. Do you know anything about Islam? Can you show where in the Qu'ran is condons all these acts of violence you talk of? if so many people hated being Muslim why wouldn't they convert? it can't be that bad if its the fastest growing religions in the world. Muslims are the only ones that murder? are you kidding me!?!?!? how do people get along with christians? jews? hindus? The hatred between Arabs and Israelis is POLITICAL.It is often confused as being religious. Not all Arabs hate Isrealis nor vice versa. You will find extremists on both sides! Some Muslims are distorted in their thinking, BUTSO ARE SOME CHRISTIANS, JEWS, HINDUS.. What about the terrorists who rape, and molest? What about the terrorists who are gang members, or in the KKK? Are they not terrorists? Why isn't their religious offiliation brought into the light? Islam teaches peace! "attempting to get along with these islamic asssholes shows a lack of common sense " Pfffft.... The Quran and other Muslim texts preach tolerance of non-Muslims and especially emphasize the value of human life, the ban on killing non-combatants, and respect for people of other religions. The fact that many acts of terror in recent years have been perpetrated by Muslims should not lead us to lay the blame on the religion of these individuals, since Christian, Jewish, and other histories - even in present times - are similarly filled with instances of violence waged in the name of their faiths. Instead, we should investigate the underlying motives of these individuals, most of whom come from nations in which the United States government has long been supporting puppet governments and providing funding for military actions against the people of these countries. We could point to the United States' support of the Saudi regime, in which the royal family is allowed by the US to rule in an undemocratic fashion in exchange for providing cheap oil resources; or the US' annual financial aid of about $9 billion to the government of Israel which uses these funds in its continued illegal occupation of Palestinian lands; or the US' financial backing of Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s. Such circumstances provoke the oppressed people of these nations to feel great animosity towards the United States. And just as others have unjustifiably pointed to religion as the inspiration for their actions, these individuals similarly claim Islam as their motivation, despite the numerous instances in the Qu'ran which discourage them from doing so... but your ignorant way of thinking makes you think otherwise psshtt fool.....Thus, in order to understand the root of the violence, it is important to recognize the significance of the role of US foreign policy in world politics as well- did you change your attitude towards Muslims yet? probably not - **sigh** how little you know.... you are one sad person greyrooster "I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT GERMANY, FRANCE, SPAIN AND MORE ARE NOT WITH US ON THE TERRORIST HUNT BECAUSE OF THEIR LARGE ISLAMIC POPULATIONS"... "IN PLAIN ENGLISH MUSLIM ARE A BIG MINORITY" why do you play it like they are a majority" Do you think before you open your trap??? - as Venom said you are full of contradictions!

16 Hi, Salaamwalaikum (Peace Be On To You).... Greyrooster, u seem like u have the whole world figured out, I dont have time to get into the whole politics with you, cuz realisticly I'm not going to change your views, and your not going to change mine. But I would like you for starters to look up the Definition of Islam. Because you obviously dont know a damn thing about the religion, so you need to learn your abc's before you can jump into this "Muahideen" talk. By the way if an army was to occupy ur land and accidently shoot ur 6 year old neighbour, and happen to rape ur little sister in the process, what would you do?

17 sorry "MUJAHIDEEN" talk**