1 Reform may require a good old-fashioned internal bloodbath - preferably contained and in a vacuum. That however would be extremely difficult to achieve.

2 Conquest, coupled with a choice between conversion and extermination, is the only option. Raw, brute force is the only thing that these primitive savages understand.

3 Good Lord Improbulus, Please tell me you were joking when you wrote this: "Conquest, coupled with a choice between conversion and extermination, is the only option." If you truly meant that, then in a single statement you have demonstrated that you have far more in common with the terrorists than you do with decent freedom-loving Americans. Our nation was not founded on the sort of sickness and hatred that you spew forth. I suspect there is hatred welling up inside you even as you read my post. Thank God people like you are in the twisted minority in our Great Nation. The words you write are not those of a man endowed with the American spirit. Your words are those of a raw, brute, primitive savage.

4 Wah wah wah disgusted. I'm sorry but the world's problems can't be fixed with chamomile tea and soymilk enemas. The Romans knew how to put down a bunch of uppity savages, and we do too, we just don't have the will to do it anymore.

5 Wow, so you really do think Muslims should be forced to choose between conversion to Christianity or extermination. That's how you propose to fix the world's problems? Do you voice this opinion out in public to flesh-and-blood humans, or just incognito via internet blogs? I ask as I bet there are people in the world, people you like and respect, who you'd be ashamed to voice this opinion to. I bet old W himself couldn't stomach your opinion on this matter; much less could Jesus. Anyway, almost my bedtime - right after my chamomile tea and soymilk enema!

6 If you believe the Koran is the "uncreated Word of God" as Muslims do, then well-intentioned reformers of Islam have a serious problem. And as Islam spreads, non-Muslims have an even greater problem. If we are seen as supporting moderate and liberal Islam, the extremists will use this to undermind the reformers and our efforts will backfire. If we do nothing, there is a serious risk the fundamentalists will win: historically they have won these internal disputes and it is not clear why the current conflict should be different. This latter fact of Islamic history is reason enough to oppose the spread of "Muhammedism."

7 Well, it's one one thing to be opposed to the spread of "Muhammedism", and quite another thing to believe that Muslims should be given the choice between forced conversion to Christianity or being killed. I'm concerned by the spread of any fundamentalist religion (Islamic or otherwise) that claims to be the only true religion - with eternal damnation for all outside that religion. Lot of religions like that out there. IM's statement above mirrors the beliefs of Muslim extremists, and I think BC's post would be still be largely accurate if the words 'Koran' and 'Muslim' were replaced by 'Bible' and 'Fundamentalist Christian'. I see extremists on both sides essentially shouting at one another 'convert to our religion or we will kill you in the name of God!'. This to me is psychopathic insanity on both sides.

8 Radical Islam is a religion that teaches religious and ethnic genocide, beginning at a very young age. It is a brainwashing that cannot be fixed, not truly. These people do not have morals as we know them, nor do they seem to have anything which is "forbidden" to them if it furthers their cause. They do not cherish life, children, women, freedom; and do not even consider anyone different than themselves to be human. They do not even cherish each other, or their own lives. Their goal is to die for allah and to eradicate anyone who does not believe in their brand Islam; Jews, Christians, even other Muslims who do not follow their lunacy in just the right way. They believe they will be rewarded for those efforts in the next life, but there doesn't seem to be much incentive for them here in this life. This makes many of them very dangerous to the rest of the world, mainly because we cannot fathom this type of thinking. The worst criminals to deal with are those who have nothing to lose. Radical Islam is the epitome of this. We are only beginning to understand that they are this way. I fail to get why some of us still want to try to "understand" them. WHY? They are beyond the understanding of civilised people. Furthermore, we do ourselves no favors by continuing to try. Being compassionate only give them the tools they need to harm more innocent people - they thrive on our sympathies, when they do not deserve either sympathy or compassion.

9 "I see extremists on both sides essentially shouting at one another "convert to our religion or we will kill you in the name of God". I hear this kind of crap from lefties all the time and itÂ’s intellectually dishonest. Maximus for example is an honest atheist. He does not believe in The Son of God, but can honestly differentiate between the Christian message and the message of Islam. At my Church, we pray for the conversion of non believers and forgiveness for the sins that we all commit. I have not missed a mass for 15 years, and never, never have we prayed or advocated the death of anyone. Disgusted, you are either a moron or just a liar when you say there is no difference. I suspect a little of both.

10 Thank you Brad. While I may hold a disfavorable opinion of religion in general, I'm wouldn't want to infringe on the rights of others to peacefully practice their faith. Islam is not peaceful in any way. Never has been, never will be. Christitanity has had its problems, but at least it is compatible with civilization and can modernize, whereas islam is the embodiment of regression, and can never truly be reconciled with modern civilized life. So yes, we should bulldoze mosques, burn all the korans, and kill anyone who refuses to renounce islam.

11 Well said, Brad.

12 Intellectually dishonest? You ought to take a look in the mirror Brad. Where do I say there is no difference between the Christian message and the message of Islam? You are putting words in my mouth (words I disagree with no less), unjustly calling me names (the hallmark of someone who is losing an argument), and distorting my point. My point is that it's insane and psychopathic to believe that Muslims should be killed if they won't renounce Islam. Insofar as a person or group believes Muslims should be killed simply for remaining Muslim, they mirror the views of intolerant Islamic Fundamentalists. ======= To defend my statement: "I see extremists on both sides essentially shouting at one another 'convert to our religion or we will kill you in name of God'". ...I doubt anyone on this blog would disagree that extremist Muslims are essentially saying that. Correct? ... And for the voice of an extremist on the other side, I give you the words of Maximus: "Conquest, coupled with a choice between conversion and extermination, is the only option ... So yes, we should bulldoze mosques, burn all the korans, and kill anyone who refuses to renounce islam." ...while Maximus is an atheist, it was perfectly logical of me to think he was religious considering his statement about conversion above. And furthermore don't you Brad, a Christian, agree with these statements from Maximus? If so, I rest my case. But if you still don't see my point Brad, I challenge you to present this discussion (including the words of Maximus) to a Man of the Cloth of your choice to ask his opinion on the matter. See if he agrees that we should "kill anyone who refuses to renounce Islam". I bet you won't though, as deep down you know Maximus' words are in direct conflict with your 15 years of righteous prayers and faithful Mass attendance. All the same, I urge you to be intellectually honest and find the courage to talk with a priest on this matter. If I am a just Liar and a Moron, what have you to loose, the priest will surely side with you and Maximus, yes? (By the way - do you recall the opinion of Pope John Paul, bless his soul, on US invasion of Iraq?) ======= You either misinterpret or intentionally distort my words if you say they are against Christianity or sympathetic towards terrorists. I believe that America owes much of its inherent justice and decency to its Christian roots (Roman roots too for that matter, Maximus). I happen to be extremely thankful that I'm an American and not a citizen of a country such as Iran or Afghanistan. None of this is lost on me. This is precisely why I get so concerned when I see Americans and Christians with views that are so blatantly similar to those of the terrorists. While millions of Muslims may believe Mohammad said to slaughter thine enemy, I understand that Christ said to love thine enemy. A pretty tall order for us common humans, of course (or should I not assume a literal intepretation of the Bible?), but you guys ought to at least try hating a little bit less (hating liberals, hating Muslims, etc.) - I think it's clouding your ability to think clearly. I mean Maximus, surely you must realize how wildly unpopular your statement would be among the vast majority of Americans? Imagine running for any elected office here in America on a platform of 'death to all Muslims who won't renounce their religion', you'd surely hand victory to your opponent! The inherent decency of the American people would see to it. Now on the other hand, if you were to take that platform to Iran, and substitute the words 'mosques', 'korans', and 'Islam' with 'churches', 'Bibles', and 'Christianity' - perhaps you'd find more support. Wouldn't you agree Brad? Iran is a different country from America, yes? Am I making myself clear enough on where I stand on the difference between Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam? I'm really not sure why I'm pointing these things out to you guys. You are probably going to just give this a cursory read and then, without giving any honest thought to what I'm saying, jump on me with more name-calling and stereotypes. Think about it, what do you really know about the sort of person I am? All I've basically told you so far is that I'm an American who loves my country and respects freedom of religion, but is deeply concerned by the rising tide of agression and extremist fundamentalism I see in both America and abroad. Somehow from this you have inferred all these other things about me (leftist, liar, moron, etc..) - I think this is due to intellectual sloppiness on you part - as well as due to that hatred that prevents you from thinking clearly. I should really leave well enough alone and not try to convince you of anything. I mean your views as they are now stand as a liability to the neoConservative and Right-wing Fundamentialist powers in this country which I am so skeptical of, so why not let it be? I guess because I'm not playing politics, I'm trying to be intellectually honest.

13 Disgusted, My Priest and Pope would never advocate the death of anyone who did not convert to Christianity. My faith supports the right to life (which I suspect you do not) in cases from the helpless unborn, Terri Scheivo to even a multiple murderer like Tookie. Get it now? We support life. Now, Church leadership and myself will always point out that eternal damnation lies ahead for all who do not convert. Big Difference! You are called like the rest of us sinners to repent and TRY to lead a better life based on the teachings of Christ’s church. BTW: How does a humanitarian lib like yourself feel about the 2 million or so Holy Innocents killed by the abortion mills each year. I’ll bet you’re a lot closer to Maximus than you would like to believe. Reply to your statements: “And furthermore don't you Brad, a Christian, agree with these statements from Maximus? If so, I rest my case” Of course not. Maximus is not a Christian and you would have known that if you read the blog for a week or so. It is pretty scary to me that the average lib like you would read his words and assume he was a Christian. “I urge you to be intellectually honest and find the courage to talk with a priest on this matter. If I am a just Liar and a Moron, what have you to loose, the priest will surely side with you and Maximus, yes? “ I guess you are just Ignorant of what the Catholic faith is. I invite you to attend Catholic mass every week for a month. You will not find any calls for death, only prayers for those who have not converted to change their ways. I’ll pray for both you and Maximus this weekend. And finally, be very careful not to misrepresent God’s Church.

14 Disgusting, don't put words in Brad's mouth, although as a lying moron liberal retard, it's the best you can do. I, and no other, am responsible for what I say, and you could at least have the balls and the honesty to not pick on someone who isn't in the fight. You goddamn liberals all are so stupid I can't even begin to understand how you even manage to dress and feed yourselves, though from what I've seen, only a few of you have got the dressing part somewhat right. You unconditionally support mass murderers like Castro and bin Laden, and the terrorists they support, and you make no apologies for it, though you make plenty for them, yet you see no right for civilized people to defend themselves from such monsters. You have no problem with suicide bombers killing children and beheading teachers, but you do have a problem with American soldiers killing terrorists. Fuck you, you all deserve to die.

15 Disgusted: You disgust me. Yes, it is past your bedtime. Which is probably about 6:00 PM. Write again when you get your head out of your diaper.

16 One who cannot tell the difference between Christianity today and Islam today is either stupid or sick.

17 Hello Mr. Greyrooster - you sounds like an imbecile telling me to get my head out of my diaper. Do you realize that? Toilet humor - oh good one. You got me now! What wit you possess. Back on topic, you are either illiterate or too lazy to read my posts if you think I'm saying there is no difference between Christainity and Islam. In fact, I explicitly say quite the opposite. I would point out to you exactly where I say that, but you sound like the sort of fellow who could use some practice reading - so I challenge you to find it yourself. Or, you could just go ahead attacking me baselessly and continue to sound like an irrational fool. Your choice.

18 Brad and Maximus, thank you for doing such an excellent job of backing me up! As I said, I expected you to respond to my post with name calling and stereotypes that had little or nothing to do with what I was saying. By and large, that is what each of you did (especially Maximus). BRAD First of all, abortion deeply disturbs me, and I am against it (you may think I am lying but with Christ as my witness I am not). When my children come of age, my Facts of Life talk to them is going to begin with my opposition to abortion. It's not a wise debating tactic to go off topic and attack someone for holding views they have never mentioned holding, it can backfire. If you look, you'll see I tried to tell you that in my last post. You label me as a liberal humanist, I suppose because I am skeptical of fundamentalist religion and neoConservatives; but many others besides liberal humanists are skeptical of these things, and I don't consider myself a liberal humanist. Further, I am not sure of your view, but I don't consider Roman Catholicism to be a fundamentalist religion anyway. In fact, I send my children to Catholic school, and I have close friends and family that are Catholic. To get back on topic, you were saying that you most definitely do not share Maximus' view that Muslims should be killed for not renouncing Islam. I commend you for that! Furthermore, I'm sorry if you took my line of reasoning to suggest that I thought the Catholic Church would agree with Maximus. I mostly certainly know that they would not! (In fact, if I recall correctly, the Pope even opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Am I correct on this?) This is why I was so confused to see you attacking me and defending Maximus, this is precisely why I asked you how Catholic Clergy would feel about Maximus' words. When I criticize Fundamentalist Christianity, I am by no means criticizing Christ. Did not Jesus, in his exemplary life, fiercely criticize certain Fundamentalist priests? In doing so, he most certainly was not criticizing God, he was criticizing the actions of men (although he was indeed accused of criticizing God). While I fail miserably to live up to the example of Jesus, I am trying. When a man advocates wholesale killing of Muslims simply for remaining Muslim, I believe the example of Jesus calls upon us to speak up in fierce opposition. If you accept such a man as your ally, I fear that something other than Christ has led you to that acceptance. Finally, you mentioned I should be very careful not to misrepresent God's Church. Could you please point out to me where I may have done that? I am not disagreeing with you, after all I am just a human guilty of many sins, so I may very well have done so. While I do not believe a person is either Christian or eternally damned, I have great respect for Roman Catholicism (as I do for many Christian denominations), so I humbly ask you to explain to me where I may be misrepresenting God's Church. And thank you for praying for me! MAXIMUS By calling me a moron and a liar with respect to my posts, while simultaneously commending you, Brad has engaged himself. Don't you see that? Also, I did not put words in his mouth, I asked him if I was correct in my thinking that he agreed with your words (which he admirably responded to in the negative). On the subject of putting words in people's mouths though, you have written an entire paragraph accusing me of holding views which I have never expressed and with which I very much disagree. Where do I say or infer that I "unconditionally support" Castro or Bin Laden? Where do I make a single apology for the terrorists? Where do I say I'm OK with suicide bombers killing children or beheading school teachers? And where do I say I have a problem with American soldiers killing terrorists? To the contrary, I'd be very pleased to see our soldiers hunt down Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan or wherever he may be, taking him dead or alive - instead of seeing these brave heroic young men and women mired in the quagmire of Iraqi occupation. Just because I quote "Love Thine Enemy" does not mean I am opposed to defending ourselves. Just because I am immensely skeptical of the Bush Administration and their manner of handling the terrorist threat, that does NOT make me a terrorist sympathiser. Your obscenities and criticisms have no relationship to the statements I am actually making. Can you not see that? You either lack the ability to read what I am writing, or you refuse to read my words, prefering instead to imagine that I am the eptiome of the sort of person you hate the most. I would challenge you to defend your accusations against me, but I'm convinced you lack either the ability or willingness to do so. I trust with each post you would only grow more irrational. And finally sir, while you apparently wish me dead, I wish you a long and happy life (provided you don't use it to kill Muslims and Americans who happen to disagree with you). Good Bye and God Bless You.

19 Disgusted: So, you send your kids to Catholic school. Are you a Catholic? Or are you Cafeteria Catholic, picking and choosing which commands GodÂ’s church you will obey? Or, are you the worst of all things? A Rich bastard who has the money to send his kids to a Catholic school but tells his kids which rules count and which do not. You do not tell your children that abortion is murder? You are the worst form of parent we have in the Catholic school system. A limo liberal who supports the public school system and all itÂ’s beliefs, but will not let his kids rub shoulders with the riff raff of society. You make me sick. Abortion is a mortal sin and if you withhold that fact from your kids you sin as well. I see you all day long at my kidÂ’s high school and grade school. You want the best of the GodÂ’s church but donÂ’t believe in it. You buy your way into our schools and pick and choose which instructions you will take from GodÂ’s church. IÂ’ll take Maximus and Greyrooster any day over you. Honest men can be saved.