Before you take away my right to blaspheme, I suggest that you had better take away my right to own a gun first. Because if you come to confiscate my computer to stop me from mocking your Prophet, you had better be armed. Heavily.

The head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research and president of the International Association of Muslim Scholars Sheikh al-Qaradhawi responds to allegedly blasphemous cartoons printed in Danish newspapers. MEMRI:

The governments must be pressured to demand that the U.N. adopt a clear resolution or law that categorically prohibits affronts to prophets - to the prophets of the Lord and His messengers, to His holy books, and to the religious holy places. This is so that nobody can cause them harm.

As I have been trying to argue for some time, the problem is that Islam offers a competing vision of society which is distinct from the Western Liberal tradition. As such, it is an ideology which we are fighting. Al-Qaradhawi is not necessarily advocating that individual Muslims engage in violence against those who blaspheme the Prophet, rather, he is advocating that governments ought to punish those that blaspheme the Prophet. He is also advocating that Muslim governments ought to punish those governments which insist that freedom of speech includes the right to call Muhammed a butcher on par with Ivan the Terrible and Genghis Khan. more...

Posted by: Rusty at 04:26 PM | Comments (18) | Add Comment
Post contains 513 words, total size 3 kb.

I was always taught to hate the sin but love the sinner. It's often tough to do, but I definitely have always tried. In fact, even though I'm a regular church attendee, I prefer to hang out with sinners. Let's face it, they're just more fun.

So, just because I am extremely critical of Islam as a political ideology, I don't hate Muslims. Never have, never will. I don't care if you don't believe me. It's true.

Many Muslims act as if they get to choose which criticisms of their religion are valid and which criticisms are simply inspired by hate. As Jeff Goldstein argues here, such is the politics of identity and why many on the Left choose to side with Islamofascists over tolerant liberalism. Because a persons's identity is often intertwined with their religious ideology, the see an attack on their religion as an attack on themselves.

But just because people often really care about their religion and are offended when people criticize their religion, it does not give them the God-like ability to read the hearts of those that criticize and discern that what motivates the criticisms is inspired by bigotry and hate. Such is the childish behavior of those wishing to end all debate when their beliefs are challenged.

Growing up, my faith was often challenged by those I deemed bigots, so I have a bit of experience being the victim of what I thought of as persecution. But that is kind of the point: those were reactions I had when I was childish, but now that I'm grown up I have a different reaction to those that challenge a part of me that I see as essential to my identity.

Not that all of these challenges to my faith are always fair, they're not. Nor are all these challenges always that well informed, most of them aren't. But I no longer ascribe evil motives to those issuing the challenges. They may be made out of ignorance, but they are rarely made out of hatred.

A Toronto Star editorial makes the childish argument, that bloggers are simply haters of Muslims:

Follow their politics and youÂ’ll understand why theyÂ’re on this particular blogwagon: they hate Muslims.

Short answer: No. Not in the least. If you think I do, I ask you to produce proof....

Long answer...

Frankly, I have grown tired of the militant Islamic movement screaming EVERY TIME they see or hear something they donÂ’t want to see or hear. Especially since when they scream, violence usually follows. Did I say that because I hate Muslims? No. I said it because it is true. DonÂ’t believe me? The Koran is rumored to have been desecrated, riots and deaths follow. A movie is made that challenges IslamÂ’s treatment of women, a Dutch filmmaker is killed. The presence of Ariel Sharon at a Jewish shrine near the Temple Mount sets off the Second Intifada.

Posted by: Rusty at 02:04 PM | Comments (23) | Add Comment
Post contains 509 words, total size 4 kb.

From Reuters:

CAIRO (Reuters) - Hamas said on Wednesday it would not bow to pressure to recognize Israel despite international threats to cut aid to any government run by the Palestinian militant group.

"Hamas does not recognize Israel and we won't accept anybody in the world forcing us into a corner," Hamas politburo chief Khaled Meshaal told journalists in Cairo.

I also point out that I have previously pointed out that it is now illegal for the US to send foreign aid to the Palestinians.

Also posted at The Dread Pundit Bluto and Vince Aut Morire.

Posted by: Bluto at 01:21 PM | Comments (31) | Add Comment
Post contains 148 words, total size 1 kb.

1 By God! That'll get their foreign aid cut by 10-15%! That'll fix 'em! They'll have to resort to killing Jews with knives and clubs if they keep getting their funding cut.

Posted by: goesh at February 08, 2006 01:29 PM (vX0fY)

2 >>>"I say the Palestinians have earned their suffering by voting Hamas into power." As they have earned virtually all of their suffering.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 01:41 PM (8e/V4)

3 islam is evil. allah is evil. Neither deserve to be capitalized as they both are inferior to western culture and western thought. kw

Posted by: kaiserwilhelm at February 08, 2006 02:08 PM (HcSOz)

4 Well, we certainly didn't see that coming. And in related news, a blue-ribbon panel has announced that water is wet.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 08, 2006 02:31 PM (0yYS2)

5 So when the Jews were ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, both pre and post 1947, that was somehow the Palestinians fault as well, right? I'm curious as to how many JR readers would accept such subjection. So, what does it take to make providing aid to Israel illegal?

Posted by: Sohail Mirza at February 08, 2006 02:47 PM (SHPL6)

6 If the Israelis are carrying out ethnic cleansing like Sohail claims, then they certainly stink at it. Just look at how many palestinians are left and how many arabs there are living prosperously inside Israel. Somebody needs to go over there and teach them how it's done - like the Sudanese Arabs perhaps. Heck, it could even be a UN program.

Posted by: Graeme at February 08, 2006 03:34 PM (Zwihh)

7 >>>So when the Jews were ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, both pre and post 1947, that was somehow the Palestinians fault as well, right? In fact, yes. It was the fault of the "palestinians" (that term being an historical fiction). The "cleansing" actually started when the Arab armies invaded Palestine after the "palestinians" rejected the U.N. partition plan that would have given them a state (the Jews voted to approve it). And the efforts to cleanse the Jews continued when the Arab armies declared their intention to ethnically cleanse the Jews and drive them into the sea (No better than Nazis, these Arabs). The rest is history, of course-- a history of one lost opportunity after another on the part of the palestinians. Whenever there is a chance to shoot themselves in the foot, the palestinians will leap at the opportunity.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 03:40 PM (8e/V4)

8 Imagine if Mexicans started to migrate en masse to California. (Hehe, not too hard to imagine.) They form such a large number and become a vocal political voting block. A manifesto then emerges with an ideology known as, say, Mexi-Zionism, which among other things advocates the establishment of an independant Spanish-speaking Mexican state in California. This ideology considers California the ancestral homeland of the Mexicans and does not recognize it as a U.S. state, nor recognizes the "how the west was won" stuff or any other treaties. This new state declares independance, and America uses the military to retake California. However, China supports the Mexi-Zionist movement with billions of dollars of aid and provides military back-up. America is repelled and the new state is formed but also expands its borders (with Chinese tanks) by 30% into Nevada, Arizona, Oregon etc. Over time, this new state begins to build settlement in all these areas. The new state welcomes Mexicans from all over and annexes all the Americans into heavily guarded areas which are deliberatly isolated from the rest of California. Say Orange County and La Jolla which are now crammed with Americans who do not have citizenship in this new state. Some Americans become "refugees" in Arizona, Nevada etc. and long for the days they can return home to California. Everytime the Americans in California (an independant Mexican state now) act up with a riot, protest, or sit-in, the new state uses force (with Chinese military supplies) to crush the disturbance. America offers all the Americans in this new state to move to any other American state, but they don't want to as California is their beloved home, so instead they "resist" the "occupation." The American "resistance" uses whatever rudimentary means they have...stones, sticks, shotguns, and the occaisional home-made bomb. Now, wouldn't you be angry at those who have annexed California and declared a separate state, and also China for supporting them? The above hypothetical is very analogical to what has happened to the Palestinians. Although some major differences, eg the Palestinians don't have the ability and military to fight the occupation, and Palestinians don't have huge areas of other territory where they could move to. What solution would you advocate in the above hypothetical? Is that solution consistent with what you advocate for the Israel-Palestine situation? Think wider. (Btw, sorry about the long post.)

Posted by: Dissonance at February 08, 2006 04:52 PM (/MxB3)

9 Jesusland, I believe your assertion is incorrect. The "Palestinians" are not an historical fiction. I assume you meant that "Palestinian" referred to the indigenous Arab peoples not representing a complete state, but somehow that didn't prevent Balfour referring to the land as "Palestine", nor the British from referring to Palestine as a state under their supervision and control. The cleansing I referred to actually started before the state of Israel was declared, and this effort was undertaken by Jewish terrorists operating in the region at the time. Note that they killed British, Arabs and even Jews to achieve their goals, exactly like Islamist terrorists of today. Now, because they are more powerful and funded by America, they are merely defending themselves, while the Palestinians are terrorists. Of course, we'll leave aside the fact that the supporting principle behind the Jewish terrorism was the Zionist movement, a movement seeking to intentionally displace a peoples to adopt a land as one's own (much like the early settlers would have done to the native American population). Something else you mentioned also seemed a little imbalanced: even if the Arab states subsequently sought to drive the Jews into the sea, why would they then retaliate and target the (relatively harmless and much weaker) Palestinians for cleansing (something you don't deny)? Of course you talk of the UN mandate to separate Palestine as if the UN had a right to do so. The entire argument of the Middle East is based upon this singular arrogance: that the European-dominated UN had the right to determine the outcome of the Palestinian people (as disorganized as they may have been). Have we the same right over any of the currently warring African peoples? Has anyone the same right over us? I like Dissonance's thought experiment, and have one of my own to offer: One day the Chinese may become much more organized and technologically advanced than America, and they declare their mandate to establish a new territory on US soil (in hushed manifestos), then proceed with a targetted emigration plan. Of course they would do all this claiming that you are not organized enough nor civilized enough. Plus they would claim a right of return as, arguably, they discovered the land first (a Chinese vessel is suspected to have stumbled upon the Americas before Columbus). They would relegate the term "American" to an historical fiction, of course. Since they will own most of the technology of the world and will number far more than Americans, what they say will feature more prominently in international media. Given the rate at which the American government is shortchanging it's educational programmes, by that time America will be about 100 years behind the Chinese, so the rest of the world will decide to hand off the fate of the Americans to the UN, against the wish of Americans. When you protest and riot against the superior Chinese and the UN's decision to divide America, the rest of the world will call you terrorists and uncivilized, but Americans will call themselves heroes and martyrs, believing that they are reliving the glory days of the fight for independence from the British. I wonder, in such a case whether you would change your viewpoint or not. Would you settle for a two-state solution? If so, how would you go about it? I realize the two scenarios are not identical, and you'll probably be inclined to dismiss it as hyperbole, but in principle the two situations are one and the same. I am not saying that there exists a solution better than that of the two-state solution in the case of the Middle East, but my goal is to illustrate that the anti-Arab attidude you've exhibited and that is prominent on JR needs to change. There is far more to consider than what you think.

Posted by: Sohail Mirza at February 08, 2006 05:00 PM (SHPL6)

10 >>>Imagine if Mexicans started to migrate en masse to California. (Hehe, not too hard to imagine.) They form such a large number and become a vocal political voting block. Ever heard of Aztlan? That's exactly what they're trying to do-- use the demographic tsunami to declare an aztlanist state. Amazingly, the aztlanists are virulently anti-Zionist, even though they are "zionist" wannabes themselves. But nobody has ever accused the Left of being consistent. But methinks you are thinking too "widely", and that's why your analogy fails. The U.S., unlike palestine, is a sovereign nation, with borders, and an established political system. Palestine was no better than a disputed territory, a backwater governed by one empire after another since Roman times. Politically, it has been up for grabs for centuries. Not a country by any definition of the word. Nobody need have been cleansed because of the U.N. partition plan. The natives already living there (both Arab and Jew) would have lived in peace under both a Jewish state, and an Arab state, with some demographic overlap. The "cleansing" only occurred because the Arabs voted against it and invaded with the purpose of driving the Jews into the sea. War cleansed the Arab and Jewish populations, not the U.N. partition plan. Today both people would be living side by side in peace but for Arab beligerence. Even today, the palestinians will not allow a single Jew to live in their state, even though millions of Arabs live in Israel. Their mindset has not changed one bit. They deserve whatever is coming to them.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 05:10 PM (8e/V4)

11 Jesusland: The fact that Palestine was not what you believe a sovreign state is (even though the British gave it borders) did not give the UN authority to govern the fate of the peoples residing there. Also, you're ignoring the terror campaign that the Jews had undertaken to oust the British whom they felt sided with the Arabs. This fact in combination with the Zionist manifesto is proof enough that the Jews wanted their own state, and on the land claimed by someone else (whether you believe it to be a country or not). I agree that had the British and the UN not meddled, we might find Arab and Jew living side by side in peace (this was so in earlier times), but that is not the case. Now, after all is said and done, after the Jews rose to dominance and got their state it is unfair to say the Arabs will not allow Jews in their state, while the Jews will allow the Arabs. Is that a favour upon the Arabs... a favour upon the weaker peoples from the more powerful Jews? Millions of Arabs can live in Israel now because the combination of mistakes by the Arabs, Zionist atrocities, and UN and British meddling have left the Palestinian territories a ghetto. Who would feel safe there? Who can get a job there? Of course, there is also the fact that some Arabs may legitimately own some land within Israel, while all the Jewish lands are already within the borders of Israel and so no Jews have any thought to live in Palestinian territory.

Posted by: Sohail Mirza at February 08, 2006 05:37 PM (SHPL6)

12 Jesusland Carlos: Thank you for your civil and thoughtful response. The issue of Palestinians' historical claims is a sticky one. There is much evidence suppression, and many historical distortions. However, just because a piece of land was a British colony and ruled by "others" for a period does not mean the land was forfeited to the New World Order of the West to dispose of as it saw fit. And a muddied claim to land should not mean that it is given away to the all the Jewish refugees after WWII because Europe wants them to be someone else's problem. That being said, the Jews are there now, and a two state solution seems the most practical. The notion of sovreignty and whose sovreignty we should recognize is much more complex than "borders and a political system." The U.S. constitution recognizes that it is the people who are sovereign. The Palestinians have an ancient culture, identity, and strive for self-determination. The mere fact that they have been denied sovereignty by many past rulers does not mean we should persevere to deny them. At one time it was the Americans who were fighting for self-determination and being called 'terrorists' in a poor 'back water' by the British. How things have changed.

Posted by: Dissonance at February 08, 2006 05:56 PM (/MxB3)

13 Sohail, the British were reviled by both sides for their broken promises, not just by the Jews. And I do not ignore that terrorism was conducted by both sides. But let me remind you that the Hebron riots of 1929 in which almost 80 Jews were massacred occurred before the birth of the Irgun or Hagganah, long before Deir Yassin, and even before a single Jewish bomb was detonated anywhere in Palestine. In fact it was the numerous massacres of Jews which provided the impetus for Jewish self-defense militias like the Hagganah. I insist that this could have been settled peaceably decades ago but for Arab intransigence (just like today, no different). And you may cite the "zionist manifesto" and whatever it may say, but I will cite Jewish support for the U.N. two-state solution. And my citation controls because it is one thing to SAY something, and quite another to DO something. Jewish deeds are on the record vis a vis the two-state solution. And so are Arab ones-- against it.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 05:57 PM (8e/V4)

14 Hmmm...if I remember my history correctly, Jews and Christians were living in what Mirza refers to as Palestine when some men with a new religion came riding out of the desert under the guises of a new religion. The Jews were established in this area for thousands of years and they deserve a state, and if they take by conquest what was taken from them by conquest, so be it. The "Palestinians", who are Arabs, have Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and I could go on and on. One tiny spit of land out of millions of square miles occupied by Arabs won't hurt a thing, and for the life of me I can't understand why the Arabs want to keep this thing going on, to their own detriment.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 08, 2006 06:03 PM (rUyw4)

15 jesusland jews are arabs its just the religion they haveand they were in in arab countries and jesuse was arab no like he was an american and thats why all the arab countries are next to each ohter because it was called the ANDALOS AND please read before talkin ppl.so palestine belongs to arabs and please read history ...jews got kicked out of us and eroup so england and the us decides to send them to palestine and then change the name to isreal in 52 now please tell me whos took whos land

Posted by: ashley at February 08, 2006 06:11 PM (WygfI)

16 >>>jesuse was arab lmao! Right. And your real name is "ashley".

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 06:28 PM (8e/V4)

17 Dissonance, do you have documentation of the American revolutionaries who traveled to England and sought out English women and children to blow up with suicidal black powder charges? Or maybe there were special colonial babyhunter brigades? Are any woodcuts of these holy martyrs still extant?

Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at February 08, 2006 06:33 PM (RHG+K)

18 >>>That being said, the Jews are there now, and a two state solution seems the most practical. Dissonance, If you believe that, then your views on Hamas can't be very different than mine are. They represent the very worst the palestinians have to offer. And by the way, as I tell all Leftwing visitors, even though we're a "rightwing hate site", you'll be treated civilly here if you come here civilly.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 06:35 PM (8e/V4)

19 Hamas is a terrorist organisation, that itself should ensure they are denied aid from western countries. Let them use their own money to fund suicide murderers

Posted by: MathewK at February 08, 2006 07:25 PM (pVHqF)

20 Muslims took the Jews land. The Jews had been living there for hundreds of years before there was a Mohammed. Muslims took the Holy Land by force in 632AD, so Muslims should not complain about them taking it back in 1947. The Jews only have a very tiny strip of land compared to hundreds of thousands of square miles that the Muslims have. What is wrong with the Jews having a very tiny piece of land for their own?

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 08, 2006 09:53 PM (rUyw4)

21 Palestinian mobs in the grip of Cartoon Hysteria have driven away some of their best friends: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 08, 2006 11:58 PM (8e/V4)

22 If I remember correctly, around 1920 the Arabs initially attacked Jewish settlements comprised of families who had been in the region for two thousand years and not the "Zionist newcomers" - decades before those "magic dates" always referred to of 1947 and 1967. And every time I hear the argument about how "all that land was taken from them" it infuriates me that they make no distinction between what was done wrong in that respect and "all that land that Palestinians willingly sold to them". This area was never "all" Muslim, Palestinian or even Arab. And it amazes me how people are only willing to go so far back to start the basis of their arguments. How much of this land was taken from Jews who had been there long before the birth of Islam or Christianity? How far back are we willing to go to say who is right? This problem did not start in the 20th century or even the 9th century. It just so happens that this is where three religions were born and if we want to argue semantics and use the "who was there first" argument, Jews were there long before the other two. How much land was "stolen" from them we'll never know. So yes, they have a right to be there as well as Christians and Muslims. And the Muslims have no right to make the other two leave nor to subjugate them to inferior status.

Posted by: Oyster at February 09, 2006 07:22 AM (YudAC)

23 JJ, you got it exactly right.

Posted by: Oyster at February 09, 2006 07:42 AM (YudAC)

24 Jesusland Carlos -- what's with all the "jesuslands"? You mention that the Palestinians attacked the Jews as early as 1920, but this after the Balfour Declaration, and during the mass influx of Jews. This was also when Palestine was declared a British mandate. To the Palestinian people it must have seemed as if they were losing control of their land, their self-determination, their self-governance (however remedial it may have been). Obviously it is absolutely reprehensible to have attacked the Jews, but I'm trying to offer some insight into what they were seeing. It's not as simple as you state, that they just attacked the Jews for no reason. I also think it's futile to compare the misdeeds of the Palestinians against that of the Jews in terms of violence. All violence was reprehensible no matter who it was against, and no matter who perpetrated it, and parties from both the Arabs and Jews were guilty of committing unjustified crimes against the other and against the British. I acknowledge that the Arabs in the region made some mistakes though, but even if they were hostile to the incoming Jews, how does that bear upon current events, upon the following subjugation of their people, upon the acts of the British and the UN? The issue is still that of self-determination, and the Palestinian people were denied that. I do not say that Jews should not live there, just that it was wrong for them to act on a planned takeover of the region, and then wonder why the Palestinians don't like that. I mean, the Zionists essentially said, "we're going to take (back) this land, we expect the British to either help us or get out of the way, and there's nothing anyone can do about it". This, of course, is a simplification of Zionism, but the results speak for themselves. I call it the Palestinian's land because frankly, if we go back far enough we end up in a muddle of land claims, so let's constrain the discussion to modern times of internationally recognized states and peoples. Palestine was a well-recognized region even before the the British mandate. For you to say "well the Jews were evicted thousands of years ago" is a bit moot. Granted they have a historical attraction to the land, and they should be free to live there and to worship as they please (as they did even during Muslim rule way back when). That the Jews had no land of their own is not sufficient reason to state that they have a right over Palestinian land, I'm sorry. No one peoples are entitled to rule over place or peoples. The two-state solution that you say the Palestinians have rejected is a little after the fact, and beyond the primary attrocity: the denial of the Palestinians self-determination. For that, as stated, I fault the arrogance of the British and the UN, the plotting of the Zionists, and the incompetence and lack of unity of the Arab peoples (albeit to a lesser extent). To go back to the thought experiments offered by Dissonance and I, would you guilt the Americans for not agreeing to a two-state solution, or for opposing it? Then for all their violent opposition thereafter, would you say it was their fault?

Posted by: Sohail Mirza at February 09, 2006 08:51 AM (SHPL6)

25 Sohail, Jesusland is where we live (i.e., the Red states). Today in Europe, native Europeans are already feeling the heat of the muslim demographic tsunami. In 20 years, muslims will be a majority in some major European cities (like Antwerp, I believe). Should they be massacred? Of course we would all recoil in horror, but afterwards I could offer you some "insight" into the murderer's motivations and that would put your mind at ease again. Because obviously there must have been a reason for the massacre. Like the muslims of palestine, Europeans too will feel threatened in a few years and launch their own jihad against muslims. No difference. Or do you believe that immigration is a one way street and only muslims have a right to feel threatened? My point is simple, actually. And that is that muslims who felt threatened by peaceful and legal Jewish immigration had no business massacring Jews. No muslims were displaced by this peaceful immigration. And no muslims would have been displaced by the Partition Plan eitber. It was WAR that displaced the peoples. War started by whom? The Arabs. Arabs who believe that immigration is a one way street. Kuffars need not apply for visas. Re "self-determination", that is something totally lacking throughout the middle east. Arabs have never known it because those lands have always been ruled by autocrats (except for Iraq presently). Nonetheless, the U.N. Partition Plan would have given palestinians that "self-determination" in their own Palestinian state. Arabs remaining on the Israelis side would also have had a voice in an Israeli democracy, and vice versa presumably. They would have been two peoples living in peace BUT for Arab pride and double standards. The Arabs, like the zionists, made their own inflammatory statements, and backed them up with deeds (like trying to "drive Jews into the sea). I used to have an extensive list of such quotes. I would rather not have to hunt them down to prove my point. Instead let's focus on what the parties actually DID. What did the zionists actually DO? Immigrated legally, purchased land, formed self-defense militias in response to terror by the muslim majority, voted for a two-state solution, defended themselves against Arab armies, gave Israeli Arabs the vote. What did Arabs do? Massacre, invade, and expell 700,000 Jews from their lands all over the middle east. Not just words, but DEEDS that today are part of the historical record. And today the Israelis have withdrawn from Gaza -- a bad idea, apparently. Because how did the palestinians repay them? By electing HAMAS. Deeds.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 09, 2006 09:48 AM (8e/V4)

26 The "Palestinian People" are Arabs, just the same as the Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc. They have no claim to self-determination because they are part and parcel to the Arabs, who have self-determination in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, need I go on.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 09, 2006 10:28 AM (rUyw4)

27 Sohail, I belive your comment should have been directed toward me as you started off with my point in reference to 1920. Anyone with common sense knows there have been errors on both sides. We mostly differ in respect to who has made the most mistakes. The fact is Hamas has rejected the recognition of an established state. A state that the UN (an organization all look to for affirmation and endorsement due to their perceived lack of bias) even recognizes. At a time when Sharon is now considered all but dead and Arafat IS dead, two bitter enemies - a situation that now for all intents and purposes should set the stage for promise in coming to terms - the Palestinian people have decided to elect a group who has been part of the problem rather than the solution. We can't "constrain the discussion to modern times" because the entire context is lost when you do. Hence my point, "...it amazes me how people are only willing to go so far back to start the basis of their arguments." It's like the fallacy of poverty being the cause of terrorism. Some say poverty is the root cause of terrorism, which beeds more poverty, which breeds more terrorism. It's a circle that you can't jump in at one point and arbitrarily call it the starting point because something else caused the poverty and the terrorism. Yeah, I see things from the perspective you speak of. But I also see it as lacking enough basis in morality. The Palestinians have lived under outside rule for centuries. They have never been self-governed. Outside rule kept the Jews subjected for them which fed their notion of being a superior race by the simple virtue of being Muslim. They never had to rule themselves as equal partners with others in the world. And they refuse to start now. There are different perspectives to everything, but they are not all equally moral. The Palestinians have no one to blame more than the ruling class Muslims in the region who rendered them powerless to become a separate identity for so long.

Posted by: Oyster at February 09, 2006 11:06 AM (sMLtC)

28 Joe, thatÂ’s some good stuff. Sohail, you seem like a very reasonable man. Therefore IÂ’m interested to know what someone like you sees as a solution to this problem. Is there a lasting peace agreement that is acceptable to you that leaves Israel intact?

Posted by: Brad at February 09, 2006 11:22 AM (BJYNn)

29 >>>Hence my point, "...it amazes me how people are only willing to go so far back to start the basis of their arguments. Oyster, sohail is only interested in going back in time to quote zionists words, not to recognize Arab deeds. Ok, let's not go back in time. What have the palestinians done lately to further their own cause? Nothing. Quite the opposite. That's my point.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 09, 2006 11:26 AM (8e/V4)

30 Thanks for your comments, all. I apologize if I appear to be ignoring Arab deeds, because I don't intend to. I am simply in opposition to the anti-Arab angle that prevails on JR. I do recognize the mistake of the Arabs and the Palestinians. I oppose Hamas' creed of violence, however I understand their position in denying the existance of Israel (even though I may not agree with it). Oyster: I disagree with your point that one cannot step into the cycle at a particular point. I haven't chosen an arbitrary point in the cycle of misdeeds in which to step. The present-day dilemma can be directly and apparently correlated to the events leading up to and following the Balfur Declaration. That is a fact. If you want to go further back to submit that the Palestinians haven't successfully governed their own state ever, I think that's valid and relevant, but only to a degree, and not to a degree great enough to overshadow the fact that the Palestinians have been denied the opportunity and means to self-determination. I agree that there are different perspectives to this issue, and that we should be looking forward. To Brad and Jesusland Carlos, I'm not exactly sure what the prospects for peace are in the Middle East. Going forward, Hamas and the Palestinians definitely need to lay down their arms, but so does Israel. If both sides believe themselves to be superior, then let the superior party lay down their arms first. Personally I put the onus on Israel though as they possess the greater military might and they control the board. What I'd ideally like to see is a territory jointly governed by both peoples, both peoples living amongst each other. Let the country be Israel or Palestine, it's irrelevant... what's relevant is that both peoples need to co-exist. I'd ideally like to see the Palestinians invited back to their homes and compensated, a concerted effort to have them integrated and given jobs. But in order for this to happen, the Muslim bloc must give up their pride and the Jewish bloc needs to give up the Zionist agenda wholesale. The new state should be neither a Jewish one, nor a Muslim one. What's crucial is that both sides acknowledge where they went wrong, and that will hopefully open the doors to a little more brotherhood. Once this is done, the extremist element on both sides can be rooted out and opposed by both Arabs and Jews. The next best option may have to be a two-state solution, and definitely the Palestinians should prepare themselves for such an eventuality. All I ask is that you appreciate where they (the Palestinians) are coming from and what they have gone through. They may not have done anything to further their own cause recently, but look at what they've gone through. The people who were given their land 60 yrs ago are also the ones that receive an inordinate amount of funding which they used to better themselves and to further suppress the Palestinians. The Palestinian situation is not an easy one. The Palestinian territories are a ghetto, and it is very difficult to overcome the prevailing psychological barriers. What would help is a little less inequity, not to mention the semblance of an apology from Israel... something to acknowledge the injustice. Sometimes land is not enough. I ask you again, what would you all do in a situation to that of the Palestinians? Would you be as receptive to a two-state solution with China or Mexico? It is not an easy prospect to face. With a little empathy for the plight of both peoples I think we can have a far more constructive discussion and hopefully peaceful resolution. By the way, I'm late to do it, but I thank you all as well for the reasonable discussion. I'm often appalled at the views and opinions I read on JR, but you guys seem to be more reasonable. Yes, even you Carlos.

Posted by: Sohail Mirza at February 09, 2006 12:34 PM (SHPL6)

31 sohail, I do sympathize with palestinians on an individual micro level. It pains me to see the sorrow in the faces of their elderly and children-- just as when I see it among the Jews. No less. It's the palestinian people on the larger macro level that I'm frustrated with and have no sympathy for. As a people, they have chosen poorly again and again. Or maybe it's just their leaders. Regardless, the people pay the price.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at February 09, 2006 01:03 PM (8e/V4)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Fatwas should be issued c/o Rusty Shackleford. Fatwa Me--we hereby:

Request, invite, and laugh at the issue of a FATWA, CURSE, SPELL, or any other fancied ignominy that any enemy of human liberty may choose to place upon us.

Posted by: Rusty at 01:19 PM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
Post contains 44 words, total size 1 kb.

I don't understand why an American citizen found aiding terrorists in Iraq isn't brought back to the U.S., tried as a traitor, and then shot? For once I agree with liberal attornies who don't want to turn over an 'enemy combatant' found in a war zone to a foreign country. I don't agree with the notion that civilian courts have any legal jurisdiction over prisoners of war, but I also don't understand our reluctance to try and execute those traitors found to be materially aiding and abeding the enemies of the United States under war-time conditions.

Hat tip Alicia for this AP story:

The U.S. government wants an Iraqi court to handle criminal charges against a naturalized American citizen who is being held in Iraq on suspicion that he is a senior operative of insurgent leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The man's lawyers said he is innocent and likely to be tortured if he is handed over to the Iraqis.

The case is the first known instance in which the government has decided to allow an American to be tried in the new Iraqi legal system. At least four other U.S. citizens suspected of aiding the insurgency had been held in Iraq, the Pentagon has said.

Shawqi Omar, 44, who once served in the Minnesota National Guard, has been held since late 2004 in U.S.-run military prisons as an enemy combatant. He has not been charged with a crime or been given access to a lawyer, said Jonathan Hafetz, a lawyer representing Omar's family in the United States.

The government said Omar, who also holds Jordanian citizenship, was harboring an Iraqi insurgent and four Jordanian fighters at the time of his arrest and also had bomb-making materials. He is described in court papers as a relative of Zarqawi who was plotting to kidnap foreigners from Baghdad hotels.

Separately, Omar, Zarqawi and 11 others have been indicted by a Jordanian court on charges they plotted a chemical attack against Jordan's intelligence agency.

Posted by: Rusty at 01:07 PM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
Post contains 345 words, total size 2 kb.

When I first heard that four Baptist churches had been burned in rural Alabama in a single night, I had my suspicions. I e-mailed a few other online publishers about this to ask them if I was crazy or paranoid, and each of them said that their initial response was the same. Nevertheless, we bit our collective tongues.

Now, I learn that four more churches were burned in Alabama two nights ago. That's eight Baptist churches gone in rural areas of a single state within a week.

Dare we call this what it really is? Domestic terrorism.

Dare we speculate who might wish to burn down the churches belonging to Bush-Hitler-Neocon-Zionist-Crusader-Pigs? No, we dare not.

Although no evidence existed, the media were free to speculate about the Klan members and various Nazi thugs who were accused of plotting a spate of church's with black congregations being burnned in the South in the 1990s.

We, however, are not free to speculate that there might be a connection between global unrest over a series of cartoons depicting Muhammed and a series of arson attacks against churches attended by people that might be seen as sympathetic to those who blaspheme the Prophet (sawt), on the heels of that unrest. Nor to connect the dots between the actual murder of Christians, the bombing of Christian churches, and death fatwas against blasphemers over a cartoon and the torching of Christian churches here.

No, we will not say what is on our minds. The Left and their allies in the MSM are free to speculate as to who the likely suspects are whenever an alleged hate crime is committed. We, on the other hand, are not for fear of being called an Islamaphobe. Even when incidents of Islam inspired terror are hundreds of times greater than any other ideology or phobia.

Like I say, it is only a suspicion of who the suspect might be. The deranged person might have been motivated by any number of hatreds--our speculation over Joel Henry Hinrichs III seemed to come to mind as an example of an initial speculation based on some very good circumstantial evidence, but where we turned out to be wrong. But our initial objection to that incident was that Islamic domestic terror was ruled out by so many before the investigation even really began.

Are we making the same mistake again by ruling out that which we fear the most? Only time will tell.

CNN via Stephen Taylor: more...

Posted by: Rusty at 12:47 PM | Comments (18) | Add Comment
Post contains 539 words, total size 3 kb.

Does it surprise anybody that one of the protesters in London that showed up in front of the Danish embassy turned out to be a convicted drug dealer? Omar Khayam is pictured here dressed as a suicide bomber at the now infamous protest in which signs were painted with slogans such as "behead those that insult islam" and "slay those that insult Islam".

British prisons, like their American counterparts, are rife with Islamic extremism. Prisons serve as an ideal recruiting ground for Islamists and jihadis who help 'turn around' the lives of criminals only to direct the convert's energies towards helping build the ummah and creating the ideal Islamic state where future criminals, convicted of the same crimes, can look forward to such punishments as beheading, stoning, and lashings.

Via Jihad Watch this BBC article:

A demonstrator who imitated a suicide bomber in a Muslim protest over cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad has been recalled to prison.

Omar Khayam, 22, of Bedford, is a convicted drug dealer who was jailed in 2002 and released on licence last year after serving half his sentence.

He was arrested and recalled to prison for breaching the terms of his licence.

Khayam apologised for his "insensitive" protest on Monday but said he had been offended by the cartoons.

Posted by: Rusty at 11:57 AM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
Post contains 250 words, total size 2 kb.

A 28 year old subsitute teacher, Sara Singley, plead guilty yesterday to having sex with one of her 16 year old female students. Interested Participant has more.

NJ.com:

Singley met the 16-year-old girl while working as a substitute teacher at her school in October 2003, records say. The school where Singley met was not specified, but the charges were filed by Bethlehem Township police.

In January 2004, Singley and the girl began a romantic relationship and had sex several times at parks in Bethlehem Township and at motels around the area, records say.

Posted by: Rusty at 11:36 AM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
Post contains 161 words, total size 1 kb.

Posted by: Rusty at 11:21 AM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
Post contains 28 words, total size 1 kb.

Pretty much every one who posts at The Jawa Report has gotten a death threat. Or, at least, that's the impression that I get. I've personally received tons of them--most of them before the Muhammed-Denmark-cartoon-gate. Several since we first commented on the childish and totalitarian attitudes of Muslims over the allegedly blasphemous drawings.

Apparently, we're not the only ones getting death threats. Jeff Quinton brings this news:

Russ Cassell, co-host of "The Russ & Lisa Show" airing on 1330/950AM in Greenville/Spartanburg, SC, announced during the second hour of his show today that there had been three death threats called in to the station since he appeared on nationally-syndicated "Mike Gallagher Show" on Tuesday talking about the Muhammad cartoon controversy.

During that appearance, Cassell announced that the cartoon would be displayed on the WORD Web site so people could see for themselves what all the "hubbub" is about.

Within a few hours of being on the Gallagher show, Cassell recounted this morning that a telephone call was made to the radio station from a man who said he was going to kill him.

Not long afterwards, Cassell received another call from the unidentified man that his family was also in danger and that Cassell would be followed to work.

Finally, a third call was made to the station threatening the life of Cassell's co-host, Lisa Rollins, and an ominous message for the radio hosts and those around them. Cassell said they told him "don't worry, we're not going to bomb anybody."

Posted by: Rusty at 10:14 AM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
Post contains 285 words, total size 2 kb.

Islam means peace, right? So when followers of the authentic religion of peace riot and murder over cartoons, it really tarnishes the image of Islam. [*cough*]

Isn't it always great to hear Muslim leaders speak out against violence because it makes Muslims look bad? As contrasted to, I dunno, Muslim leaders speaking out because violence is bad.

CBS News:

Police shot four protesters to death Wednesday to stop hundreds from marching on a southern U.S. military base, as Islamic organizations called for an end to deadly rioting across the Muslim world over drawings of the Prophet Muhammad.

"Aggression against life and property can only damage the image of a peaceful Islam," said the statement released by Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the EU chief Javier Solana.

Of course, it begs the question of whether or not such blasphemy would be legal in a 'moderate' Muslim state. Which, of course, it isn't.

Posted by: Rusty at 09:12 AM | Comments (13) | Add Comment
Post contains 195 words, total size 1 kb.

Killing terrorists is great, unless, of course, that terrorist happens only to want to kill Jews. At least, that is the general theory at the U.N.

Sun:

Secretary-General Annan yesterday criticized one of the most potent weapons in the war against terrorism, saying he "has noted with concern" a spate of targeted killings by Israel in Gaza and the West Bank. Mr. Annan's statement came after acting Prime Minister Olmert reportedly instructed the army to escalate its anti-terror campaign amidst renewed Palestinian Arab attacks.

The criticism of Israel's targeted killings, which are considered instrumental to its success in reducing terrorist attacks in recent years, highlighted an ongoing debate about the application of international treaties to the war against terrorism. While Mr. Annan calls for countries to apply civil law to terrorists, Israel, as well as the Bush administration, sees them as dangerous combatants.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:13 AM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
Post contains 150 words, total size 1 kb.

I just got back from admitting my mother into a special care facility.

In the good old days, it would have been a "psych ward" but those days are long gone.

Tentatively, she's been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but I've been told that Alzheimer's can only be confirmed as a diagnosis after an autopsy.

But, in the hospital, the term Alzheimer's was bandied about quite readily.

That's neither here nor there though. My mother is ill, is in the hospital, and I am the only one allowed to make decisions regarding her care.

Normally, this paragraph would be the "light posting" paragraph, but I don't know, blogging is a nice distraction.

I may post more, I may post less, I may even quit altogether.

We'll see, I guess.

One last thing. I still want my damned fatwa.

Posted by: Vinnie at 03:13 AM | Comments (21) | Add Comment
Post contains 140 words, total size 1 kb.

From The Politicker:

The editorial staff of the alternative weekly New York Press walked out today, en masse, after the paper's publishers backed down from printing the Danish cartoons that have become the center of a global free-speech fight.

Editor-in-Chief Harry Siegel emails, on behalf of the editorial staff:

New York Press, like so many other publications, has suborned its own professed principles. For all the talk of freedom of speech, only the New York Sun locally and two other papers nationally have mustered the minimal courage needed to print simple and not especially offensive editorial cartoons that have been used as a pretext for great and greatly menacing violence directed against journalists, cartoonists, humanitarian aid workers, diplomats and others who represent the basic values and obligations of Western civilization. Having been ordered at the 11th hour to pull the now-infamous Danish cartoons from an issue dedicated to them, the editorial group—consisting of myself, managing editor Tim Marchman, arts editorJonathan Leaf and one-man city hall bureau Azi Paybarah, chose instead to resign our positions.

Via The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler.

Also posted at The Dread Pundit Bluto and Vince Aut Morire.

Posted by: Bluto at 12:01 AM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
Post contains 225 words, total size 2 kb.

In a move that likely supports the contention that Europeans do not take terrorism seriously, a convicted 9/11 terrorist has been released from custody while his case is being appealed.

From Aljazeera.net:

Mounir el Motassadeq was sentenced to seven years in prison last August by a court in Hamburg.

City judicial spokesman Carsten Grote on Tuesday said Germany's Federal Constitutional Court has now ordered him released. Grote did not give a reason for the higher court's decision.

It was not clear when el Motassadeq, 31, would be released.

In 2003, the Moroccan became the first person anywhere to be convicted with the 9/11 hijackings when he was found guilty of membership of a terrorist organisation.

From Interested-Participant.

Posted by: Mike Pechar at 10:27 PM | Comments (9) | Add Comment
Post contains 166 words, total size 1 kb.

Denmark is the only nation other than the United States that celebrates US Independence Day on July 4th as a national holiday. I found out about this when I was a stamp collector and came across a series of Danish stamps celebrating US Independence, issued on July 4th. Kinda cool.

Posted by: Demosophist at 09:05 PM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
Post contains 56 words, total size 1 kb.

I've seen quite a bit of linking to Jeff Jacoby's latest column where he proclaims "we are all Danes now."

I'm not a Dane now. Never have been, never will be. No offense to our Danish friends, it's just a simple fact. I'm an American. Doesn't mean I don't support them, and their right to free speech. And I surely enjoyed the Carlsberg I bought, and will buy more (haven't tried the Fris yet, that's for the wife).

Besides, I was bashing Mohammed long before Jyllends-Posten ever dreamed of it.

So where's my damned fatwa already?

Posted by: Vinnie at 07:42 PM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
Post contains 108 words, total size 1 kb.

Update: New computer is here! Oh new computer, how did I ever live without thee and thy 120 gigs of memory!!

Now where did all my software, bookmarks, and critical data go??? more...

Posted by: Rusty at 02:44 PM | Comments (24) | Add Comment
Post contains 88 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Sweet -- it's about time you got a Mac ...

Posted by: Leopold Stotch at February 06, 2006 09:55 PM (n3GVD)

2 May God rest its... motherboard.

Posted by: RepJ at February 06, 2006 10:15 PM (ZKVg+)

3 It's gonna take days just to move all the gay midgets porn off your old machine. Not that there's anything wrong with gay midgets eating pudding while herding sheep.

Posted by: phin at February 06, 2006 10:29 PM (DGPlf)

4 I can't believe you didn't eulogize said computer with a haiku.

Posted by: Vinnie at February 06, 2006 11:39 PM (f289O)

5 Frankly, I'm jealous, Rusty! I want a new computer.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 07, 2006 05:17 AM (rUyw4)

6 salut moi c'est amhdi dit est ce que çava

Posted by: mahdi at February 07, 2006 06:12 AM (b8rdD)

7 I had my machine custom built four or five years ago, I can't remember really, but it's still going strong, and the only problems it ever has are caused by Windows or some retarded program.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 07, 2006 08:48 AM (0yYS2)

8 Que fais-tu ici Mahdi? C'est un site pour les adultes! De plus, je ne crois pas que tu reçoives beaucoup de réponses en français...

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 10:32 AM (aPkwd)

9 Rusty, what's up with the Pig Latin?

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 07, 2006 10:40 AM (rUyw4)

10 JJ, Don't worry, it's just that Mahdi looks like he/she's not at the right place. I was telling her that. And it's called French by the way. - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 10:54 AM (Ol+Ma)

11 120 GB of memory? where did u get slots for it all?

Posted by: chad at February 07, 2006 03:12 PM (lNQg8)

12 Max, that's what I said, French! Pig Latin, French, what's the difference?

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 07, 2006 04:10 PM (rUyw4)

13 What did Mahdi say, anyway? I actually failed French..twice!

Posted by: Rusty at February 07, 2006 04:25 PM (JQjhA)

14 you can get 250gb HDs for 110$.

Posted by: Andre at February 07, 2006 04:33 PM (bQ3vG)

15 Keep on makin' fun of it JJ, but when you wake up tomorrow to find a pissed off Celine Dion at your door, you're on your own buddy Hey Rusty, 120 gigs of memory on the new computer? Postings at the Jawa Report about Danish p0rn. Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: Graeme at February 07, 2006 04:34 PM (FIDTa)

16 Rusty: He or she wrote: "Hi, my name is Mahdi. Tell me, how are you?" (I think he/she's a child). I replied: "What are you doing here Mahid, it's a web site for adults. Furthermore, I doubt that you'll receive a lot of reply in French!" Graeme: LOL. Rest assured that Céline Dion is not very popular amongst male French Canadians! And yes, just like JJ, I would be VERY frightening if I would see her at my door. She wouldn't have to look angry to intimidate me, just her singing is horrible... Furthermore, she's living in Las Vegas now. That's cool! - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 05:36 PM (aPkwd)

17 120 gigs of memory or HD space? Different things ya know.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 07, 2006 05:58 PM (0yYS2)

18 IM, "What's the difference"--said in computer voice from movie War Games Max, I only asked because Mahdi Army is the name of paramilitary group in Iraq. Is it a French name too?

Posted by: Rusty at February 07, 2006 06:17 PM (JQjhA)

19 Rusty: Seriously? I didn't know that. It changes the perspective now. Mahdi is not a common name at all, or a diminutive that I would know... It did sound to me as middle-east tough. - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 06:25 PM (+kFf8)

20 Mystery solved: Her IP resolves to Casablanca, Morroco. Thus, French speaking Muslim.

Posted by: Rusty at February 07, 2006 06:57 PM (JQjhA)

21 BTW Rusty: Very nice Blog. It's been a couple of weeks since I discovered it, and I'm now kind of addicted! Happy that you have now a brand new machine so you can keep posting interesting stuff to read for my too long days of work... - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 07:05 PM (Ol+Ma)

22 Thanks, It would be much better if I could get all the stinkin software loaded some time this century.

Posted by: Rusty at February 07, 2006 07:06 PM (JQjhA)

23 If there has been one really bright spot for me in all this cartoon mess, it is the number of new people who have discovered The Jawa Report. Welcome, new people, and if you believe in free speech and ideas welcome to a blog that has everything from atheists to Baptists to Catholics to agnostics, and that's just the ones of us who are religious.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 07, 2006 08:14 PM (rUyw4)

24 Rusty: can we get an IP check on the nutjobs posting on this thread: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/156030.php specifically: Ashfaq P K, and some tosser going by the nick 'rush', I'd be interested to see under which rock they call home!

Posted by: dave at February 07, 2006 08:50 PM (CcXvt)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

A French Supermarket chain in Egypt, Carrefouris, is removing all products made by Danish companies in response to reaction to a cartoon printed in a Danish newspaper said to be offensive to Muslims. Ironically, the French owned Supermarket fails to mention that a French newspaper also ran the same cartoons. Further, France's most prominent publication, Le Monde, ran an editorial cartoon of the Prophet Muhammed on their front page in a sign of solidarity for free speech.

Photo from Big Pharaoh: Sign reading 'This product is Danish' at French owned Supermarket in Egypt.

Incidentally, the British retailer Sainsbury's was forced to close its stores in Egypt based on rumors that the owner was a Jew. Gotta love the religion of tolerance!

Big Pharaoh has the entire story and more photos. Hat tip: Flea

Posted by: Rusty at 11:20 AM | Comments (23) | Add Comment
Post contains 145 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Interesting juxtaposition of Mike's Sunni Insurgents Break From Al-Qaeda post with this one. Will the winner in this struggle be the side less efficient in cannibalizing its own?

Posted by: a4g at February 07, 2006 11:31 AM (nMd9J)

2 It just goes to show that there is nobody the froggies won't betray, and there is no enemy which they will not try to appease. They are a nation of gutless cowards.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 07, 2006 11:38 AM (0yYS2)

3 IM, I must admit that you're right. History has proven it too. As a French Canaidan, they even let us down 400 years ago, but they still call us their "cousins". - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 11:43 AM (Ol+Ma)

4 correct me if i am wrong but were the French forces finally needed inorder to help the americans defeat the british ?

Posted by: rob at February 07, 2006 11:59 AM (QpkBe)

5 Rob, you are right on this subject. But the American forces were the main asset (by far) in that fight. France was only there to show British that they would be beaten by them. At the same time, they let down all the French colonies (sorry for the spelling), allowing British forces to conquer lower Canada (Québec). My ancestors should have accepted the offer made by the Americans to join them. But then, religion was strong and people were turned away from this option. Having working with different armies in the world (including French, British, American and of course, colleagues from the rest of Canada), I can say that I feel closer to American more than anybody else. - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 12:23 PM (+kFf8)

6 Another lame ass attempt by the French to pospone the inevitable. When what happened to Sainsbury's happens to them, no one muslim will remember that they removed Danish products during the cartoon rage (or provided treatment for Arafat, opposed the Iraq war or allowed the youth to satisfy their inner arsonists for three weeks for that matter). Okay, so every cheesed off muslim country wants to boycott Danish products. I'm still waiting to hear about countries refusing and refunding Danish financial aid. Now that would show some comittment.

Posted by: Graeme at February 07, 2006 01:08 PM (FIDTa)

7 Rob, any aid the American Revolutionaries received from France was before the French Revolution. Since 1789, the relationship has been decidedly one-sided and declining. As Max noted, the French even betrayed the Quebecois, their bretheren, so how much more is anyone else to expect from them? Our revolution created a new nation, free from the baggage of old Europe, but theirs created simply another version of the same old thing, with the expected results. Europe will keep failing until it remodels itself after us.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 07, 2006 02:35 PM (0yYS2)

8 The french chickens have shown what their made of they are yellow bellies and cowards

Posted by: sandpiper at February 07, 2006 03:09 PM (7/75z)

9 IM, "(...)Europe will keep failing until it remodels itself after us." The funiest thing about French people is that they actually want, in some way, be like Americans, but with very poor results! They have French rappers, witch is probably the most popular musical genre over there (but it sucks, beleive me!), loves American movies more than their own cinéma and even have more English words in one sentence than us, French Canadian (who are living a few hours away from the border...) They seem to want to copy the US, but with some kind of denial. It's like a identity crisis with a pretentious attitude. But when you see the problem they have with imigration, you kind of understand. Sorry for the bad English, I'm not fully bilingual... - Max

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 03:42 PM (Ol+Ma)

10 The ONLY reason the French Monarchy supported the Revolution was to tweak Britain. And they definitely had an attitude towards us that was as condescending as England's, and continues to this day -- they thought us naive bumpkins who didn't know anything about politics or diplomacy. They tried to manipulate us through Ben Franklin to keep us doing things their way, and had a fit when John Admas made an end-run with the Dutch 9read David McCullough's biography of Adams if you REALLY want to hate the French). And it didn't take long for them to antagonize us once the Revolution succeeded -- go read up on the XYZ Affair of 1800.

Posted by: Brian B at February 07, 2006 04:36 PM (rGfpg)

11 Max, Sorry about the pig Latin joke. Some of my ancestors are from the Rhiems area of France, but being Hugenots at a time when religion was important, they made like Falstaff, and decided that discretion was the better part of valor. They ended up in Baltimore, Maryland. No French jokes, IM, as I'm only 1/4 French, and the Irish and Scotch half of me will get all riled up.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 07, 2006 05:24 PM (rUyw4)

12 No offense taken JJ, Being 6 millions of Québécois in a sea of 275+ millions of English speaking persons develop your sense of humor! Especially when us, living in North America, see what France is doing lately! I tell you, we're not too proud of them...

Posted by: Max at February 07, 2006 05:41 PM (Ol+Ma)

13 The American revolutionaries were just pissed off English people or descendants of. Their psyche was probably more in line with that of the Average Brit. The French are just opportunists and lack character as history has proven. On a side note, that ugly creature Hamza the Hook has been given 7 years today for inciting racial hatred in the UK. I hear the US want to extradite him when he is released, that would be good but it would be better if he went to France to drain their tax funds. Personally I'd put the grotesque bastard out of his misery and save money keeping him inside.

Posted by: Jester at February 07, 2006 06:15 PM (QKZX5)

14 Good post Brian B.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 07, 2006 06:35 PM (0yYS2)

15 Fuque the french! Give us back our dead, you can have your statue back and the next time your in deep doo doo lose our number!

Posted by: Dadzilla at February 07, 2006 10:03 PM (M5Z5f)

16 So the terror alert metre is at number four. 1. Run 2. Hide 3. Surrender 4. Collaborate

Posted by: jonny at February 07, 2006 10:23 PM (nytWC)

17 "A French Supermarket chain in Egypt, Carrefouris, is removing all products made by Danish companies in response to reaction to a cartoon printed in a Danish newspaper said to be offensive to Muslims." If you like the French, raise your hand. If you are French, raise both hands. Bill

Posted by: Bill at February 07, 2006 10:26 PM (2XkYN)

18 jonny: What more can be said??! OT; I finally watched a mostly uninterrupted video download about the staged cartoon incoherent pawns (Wait a minute! Wasn't she showing a placard and discussing the CARTOONS!) from Michelle Malkins site, but could it be that the reason for allowing the link was that even Fox now is/has fallen into the typical journalistic trap/crap the remaining news agencies whose gangrene killed them years ago. Life support would first mean their must've been life at some point, no.

Posted by: forest hunter at February 07, 2006 11:33 PM (Fq6zR)

19 Ha Ha! JJ's French! Sorry I couldn't resist. It makes me think of that IHOP commercial from a few months back with the beret wearing cowboy. Still, you've got good ancestry. 1/4 of my blood comes from the Western European country that everyone forgets even exists: Portugal.

Posted by: Graeme at February 08, 2006 05:14 AM (Zwihh)

20 Now I figured IM to be the one to make me take off my cowboy hat and wear a beret. Haha! My cousin had to go all the way to Angola to fine him a fine lady from Portugal, and she is something, I tell ya. So that ancestry is to be proud of. A shame that all the white farmers in Angola are being forced out, as her family has now left Angola, her for the US and the rest back to Portugal.

Posted by: jesusland joe at February 08, 2006 05:31 AM (rUyw4)

21 "They seem to want to copy the US, but with some kind of denial." Max, it's called "cognitive dissonance" and it's prevalent all over Europe (and elsewhere). I'll tell you a good essay to read which hits on this subject is Bill Whittle's essay "Empire". There's a link to it on his site under the Silent America heading on the right. Hell! Read all his essays. They're awesome. http://www.ejectejecteject.com/

Posted by: Oyster at February 08, 2006 05:55 AM (YudAC)

22 Oyster, Thanks for the link. I'll read it. You got a point on this, it's not only the French: pretty much all Europe is going trough this kind of transormation. But I visited a lot of country in Europe, and France is were it's most flagrant. - Max

Posted by: Max at February 08, 2006 10:56 AM (+kFf8)

23 I can't remember which I sent it to, but either Vinnie or Howie has a French Terror Alert scale I sent. I wish they'd post it, because it was funny, since I made it myself.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at February 08, 2006 02:39 PM (0yYS2)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

(Baghdad) Sunni terrorists have decided that al Qaeda terrorists are not their friends anymore. In recent months, al Qaeda bombs have killed Sunnis. Consequently, a new anti-U.S. and, presumably, anti-al Qaeda insurgency group has been formed.

From Alertnet.org:

Sunni Arabs have formed their own militia to counter Shi'ite and Kurdish forces as part of an attempt to regain influence they lost after Saddam Hussein was toppled.

The so-called "Anbar Revolutionaries" have emerged from a split in the anti-U.S. insurgency, which included al Qaeda.

They are a new addition to a network of militias that have thrived in Iraq's bloody chaos and are tied to the country's leading ethnic and political parties, now negotiating the formation of a coalition government after the Dec. 15 election, the second such polls since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The newly-organised militia is made up mostly of Saddam loyalists, Iraqi Islamists and other nationalists leading an insurgency against U.S. and Iraqi government forces.

From Interested-Participant.

Posted by: Mike Pechar at 11:02 AM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
Post contains 197 words, total size 2 kb.