The good news just keeps on coming today.

FOXNEWS:

Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along. Then, officers began making arrests.

Obviously Cindy is trying to play for sympathy here and got herself arrested on purpose.

Updated from Yahoo news.

Others who were arrested also cooperated with police. Sgt. Scott Fear, spokesman for the U.S. Park Police, said they would be charged with demonstrating without a permit, which is a misdemeanor. Park Police Sgt. L.J. McNally said Sheehan and the others would be taken to a processing center where they would be fingerprinted and photographed, then given a ticket and released. The process would take several hours, he said.

More Yahoo here

Michelle Malkin has great pics and video too

Posted by: Howie at 01:06 PM | Comments (27) | Add Comment
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Buried far down in a report about the conviction of a Spanish al Qaeda cell leader is this nugget, which confirms what most reasonable people have suspected about the pan-Arab propaganda outlet al-Jazeera all along.

From the Associated Press via Yahoo! News:

Twenty-one others also stood trial, but on charges not directly related to Sept. 11. Of those, 16 were convicted of belonging to or collaborating with a terrorist organization and five were acquitted.

One of the 16 was Tayssir Alouny, a correspondent for the pan-Arab TV network Al-Jazeera. He was convicted of collaboration and sentenced to seven years in jail.

Al-Jazeera condemned Alouny's verdict.

"It was a black day in the history of the Spanish justice," Al-Jazeera news editor Ahmed al-Sheik told the broadcaster from Madrid. "We were all shocked because everyone expected Alouny to be freed. It is a regrettable event in the history of international journalism when a journalist who sought the truth becomes the accused."

Posted by: Bluto at 12:18 PM | Comments (17) | Add Comment
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More good news on FOXNEWS. It seems life is sucking pretty hard for Bin Laden.

"For a very long time there are no intercepts about Usama bin Laden giving instructions to his regional commanders, either through radio, telephone, satellite phone or the Internet," a senior security official said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject. If he is unable to give orders physically or otherwise, it clearly indicates that his communication has been severed."

Hooray!!!!!!! I can think of a few more things the man needs severed.

Posted by: Howie at 12:16 PM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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It looks like the rest of this month and until the end of October I will be only able to do one post a day--maximum. Sorry. The good news is that by November it looks like my schedule will return to normal and that we should begin our first Jawa podcasts sometime shortly thereafter.

Until then, I recommend my co-bloggers to you. Their posts are a mix of humor, deep insight, overlooked news items, and political screeds--the kind of stuff you've come to expect at The Jawa Report. Link worthy items should be sent to them, not to me. I'll still be reading e-mail, but don't expect a response unless it is either personal in nature or urgent.

I shall return.

Posted by: Rusty at 11:15 AM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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More talking points from the left debunked........

The majority of soldiers and Marines killed or wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan were young, white, enlisted personnel from active-duty units, according to a study released Friday by the federal Government Accountability Office.

The demographic study involved 1,841 service personnel who were killed and 12,658 who were wounded, as of May 28.

Whites, who constitute 67 percent of the active-duty and reserve forces, accounted for 71 percent of the fatalities. Blacks are 17 percent of the overall force and were 9 percent of the fatalities. Hispanics are 9 percent of the force and were 10 percent of the fatalities.

Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders are 3 percent of the force and were 3 percent of the fatalities. American Indian/Alaskan Natives are 1 percent in each category. The race of the remaining fatalities was listed as "multiple or unknown."

Isn't it refreshing when the press actually do their own homework.

Companion Opinipundit

Posted by: Traderrob at 09:35 AM | Comments (14) | Add Comment
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Left demands U.S. out of U.S. now. Neocons respond: U.S. must invade U.S. now!

More anti-war protesters reveal true agenda.

Best. ACLU. Idea. Ever. ACLU demands girls join Boy Scouts. I would have made Eagle had there been some chicks around.

A look at Navy Seal's hell week. Almost as bad as finals week in one of Rusty Shackleford's classes.

Today's masochism link: Asshat interviews asshole.

RINO sightings is up. Check it out.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:55 AM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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Numerous news reports have ignored the fact that anti-war protesters weren't the only ones riding Cindy Sheehan's stained coat tails this weekend. Apparently every liberal loving, America hating, Bush bashing group in the United States was there in DC which means NOW, PETA, and only God knows who else was on-board at the event.

This puts the numbers of actual Cindy Sheehan supporters and anti-war folks that attended the anti-war rally in question. When you look at the pro-war folks that were partaking in their events you can pretty much guarantee that it was nothing but pro-war folks and not a myriad of other organizations using the death of American servicemembers in Iraq to forward their cause for liberalism.

Update: Cindy Sheehan now has a criminal record.

Originally Posted at

Posted by: Chris Short at 08:51 AM | Comments (11) | Add Comment
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The Left constantly whines about Bush driving away European allies, yet, at nearly every turn in the past several years, those more closely aligned with the principles of limited government, lower taxes, open markets, and a defense of liberty abroad have won. Now if we could only get Bush to live up to his own rhetoric this country would be in much better shape.

Poland:

Polish papers are in little doubt that the apparent victory of the centre-right Law and Justice party, the PiS, in the country's first general election since joining the EU was a convincing one.

"PiS beat the Platform," says a headline in the influential Gazeta Wyborcza, referring to the Civic Platform, which seems to have come a close second.

"A radical change of power achieved with record low turnout" is how the paper sums up the result.

The Right, it says, will dominate the new Sejm (parliament).

The outgoing ruling left looks set to see its strength slashed from 217 to about 50 deputies, marking the lowest point since it was created in 1990 by reformed communists.

There was, however, one surprise: the fact that the outgoing ruling party, the former Communist Democratic Left Alliance, appears to have come third.

Beset by a series of corruption scandals, it had been expected to do worse.

"It got 11% of the vote and as many as 50 seats," Gazeta Wyborcza says. "Could this be because President Kwasniewski had campaigned on its behalf?"

This theme is echoed in the weekly Wprost.

"A sense of joy, even triumphalism reigned on Sunday night at the headquarters of the greatest winner among the losers - the Democratic Left Alliance."

What is extremely good news for the U.S. is that the ex-communist government that has been ousted from power was a supporter of the Iraq war. The two incoming right-of-center parties that are expected to rule also support the Iraq war and are Western in orientation. That is to say, alliance with the U.S. is not on the table in Poland, all major parties agree to that--Left and Right.

Here is a run down from the BBC on the two incoming parties' foreign policy stance:

What kind of foreign policy would the two pursue?

Both parties say they want to maintain Poland's close relations with the US and to play an assertive role in the EU.

Both see Russia as a potential strategic threat - and say Poland should seek to diversify its sources of oil and gas.

But while Civic Platform would also like to work closely with Germany, Law and Justice is more prone to nationalist rhetoric.

Here is how the Polish government classifies these two parties:

The Law and Justice Party (PiS) is a right-wing party which cherishes the traditions of independence and derives from the Solidarity movement of the 1980s. PiS represents a right-wing electorate which favours a traditional social order, a free-market economy, a strong and wholesome state, the principle of law and order and a resolute fight against crime and corruption. PiS was created in 2001. The best-known Law and Justice politicians are: Lech Kaczyński, Jarosław Kaczyński, Ludwik Dorn, Zbigniew Wasserman, Wiesław Walendziak, Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz.

The Citizens' Platform (PO) was created in 2001 by Andrzej Olechowski, Donald Tusk, and Maciej Płażyński (then Speaker of the Senate), former members of the UD and AWS parties. The Citizens' Platform is a group which represents the liberal electorate, private entrepreneurs and business circles, as well as all who want a wholesome and robust state based on a free-market economy and the principle of competition. The leaders of Citizens' Platform are: Andrzej Olechowski, Donald Tusk, Paweł Piskorski.

In Poland, in contrast, there was never any doubt as to where oppression came from: Moscow. The Polish Left was never privy to the kind of anti-Americanism that prevails among the Western elite. They were anti-American because their masters in the USSR commanded them to be.

But, maybe there is a better theory floating around out there.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:37 AM | Comments (21) | Add Comment
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Iowahawk's intercepted another missive from Zarqawi.. and he's not a happy man. Warning: Do not have coffee in your mouth while reading this.

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I see the American Spectator is firing up a staff blog, presumably something like NRO's Corner without all the Star Trek. The AmSpec has some smart people among their regulars--Bob Tyrell gets a lot of good inside-DC dirt for his Prowler column, Jed Babbin has some good military analysis, and Ben Stein's particularly quotable. No link yet, just an announcement, but it looks like they should be on in the morning.

The AmSpec puts up four or five free columns every weekday midnight, by the way, and it's already a daily stop for me.

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A hijacking in Colombia on Sept. 12? Interesting. It was a paralyzed guy with a grievance, his son, and a couple of hand grenades. No one was hurt, and the hijackers were arrested.

Not every hijacker will be wearing a turban and carrying a Koran.

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There were two rather profound offerings on CSPAN this evening. If you missed them you can still get your fill:

The first was an interview with Tony Blankley about his new book The West's Last Chance. Although the interviewer did her best to insinuate her own conventional anti-Bush agenda she was at least respectful and allowed Tony to make his points. I guess I see pretty much what Blankley sees, and I agree that we're probably at the turning point. The other program was the incendiary "debate" between George Galloway and Christopher Hitchens that ended with Galloway standing in a pool of his own intellectual and emotional vital fluid... a fact that I'm sure escaped him. One of the highlights was Hitchens' ridicule of the "Moveon Left's" brave opposition to Dick Cheney, which he compared rather unfavorably to the revolutionary courage and leftist bonafides of the Kurdish Workers Party, and the Pesh Merga; who are (he was quick to note) fighting on our side.

What I'd like someone to tell me some day is how and why a movement that gets its inspiration and financial resources from one of the most venal and amoral capitalists on the planet, and which tacitly supports nearly every authoritarian fascist dictator in the world, can properly wear the insignia of "the Left." How did that happen? Listening to Hitchens it occured to me that the Left may have a second wind some day, since at least part of it (admittedly the smaller part) hasn't betrayed its own principles.

The "turning point" that Blankley refers to may be very close indeed. I don't know how anyone who isn't brain dead could walk away from that Hitchens/Galloway debate believing that the anti-war Left is salvaging even a morsel of dignity. Wish it had broader circulation... There's lots more, including links to video and transcripts of the debate series on Hitchensweb. Really good stuff!

(Cross-posted by Demosophist to Demosophia)

Posted by: Demosophist at 11:58 PM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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If anyone is between Houston and Lake Charles, please speak up and let me know what the gas situation is where you are.

If you can help, please go read the rest.

Posted by: Vinnie at 06:04 PM | Comments (1) | Add Comment
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Gary Qualls was the father of Lance Corporal Louis W. Qualls, who was killed during the Battle of Fallujah on November 16, 2004. Gary observes that Cindy Sheehan refuses to read the last letter of her son. He feels this reluctance marks her cause as one of dishonor and disrespect, rather than the principled objection it claims to be. Gary unashamedly read the text of his son's final letter on the Mall today, in Washington DC... something that apparently strikes fear into the hearts of the so-called "anti-war" movement's followers, for it allows a clear comparison between their "shenanigans" and the uncomplicated notion of "duty" that inspires patriots like Qualls. The result is far from flattering to the Copperheads.

more...

Posted by: Demosophist at 02:02 PM | Comments (30) | Add Comment
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1 just attack the person I attacked the very same thing Gary attacked: the fact that Cindy won't read her son's final letter--obviously because it expresses sentiments that are nobler, wiser, and more visionary than her own. (And, ironically, that would answer all of her disingenuous "questions" to George Bush.) As for the notion that she's somehow immune from criticism because her son died, don't you just wish. Somehow it just doesn't seem that noble to "ventriloquize the dead," especially when it's so obvious that if the dead could speak they'd repudiate the sentiments she crams so ignobly into his mouth. Again, it is Cindy Sheehan that is dishonorable and disrespectful, and no amount of false immunity will ever quite cover up that stain.

Posted by: Demosophist at September 25, 2005 05:06 PM (+OkBB)

2 I will bet anyone reading this blog that the MSM/DNC will give less than 10% (or less than one tenth) the coverage to Fort Qualls they give to Cindy, The good Dr. Rusty has my address and email. I will trust thim to hold the bet $.

Posted by: Rod Stanton at September 25, 2005 05:44 PM (tplWd)

3 Wayne, doing his darned-best to be a good propagandist, said: "stay away from the issues, just attack the person." It always makes the leftards mad when they see their enemies using their tactics.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 25, 2005 05:53 PM (0yYS2)

4 its just like we all know...the left thinks, or wants to think, that they and only they know everything that is happening and that only they have any right to mouth off their opinions while the rest of us are supposed to be good slaves and keep our eyes on the floor and our mouths shut...the left are the ones who want to be the elitists, not the conservatives as they like to cry about...funny how most, not all, but most of youre richest men in America are supporters of the left....George Soros and Warin Buffet being two of them...Warren Buffet owns the company i work for and it makes him millions a year...which side has the millionares/billionares now????

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 25, 2005 06:44 PM (FMsU7)

5 Thanos, you sum it up nicely as usual, and by pointing out two lies used by the leftards, you illustrate their black-is-white mentality. Their favorite tactic, one espoused by none other than Lenin, is to accuse their enemies of the very things of which they themselves are guilty, such as the way they scream about "torture" at GITMO and Abu Ghraib, but will flatly deny with incredulity the truth of what goes on in Cuba, China, and North Korea. I've said it many times in many ways, and it bears repeating; liberals are no less an enemy than any others, because they support our enemies and actively promote enemy causes and disseminate their propaganda. They should all be rounded up and shot.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 25, 2005 08:31 PM (0yYS2)

6 Cindy Sheehan, please read your son's last letter to the listening public so that they will know how he felt about serving in Iraq-- that is if you have any integrity whatsoever left in your fat ugly mannish-looking self.

Posted by: dcb at September 25, 2005 09:07 PM (8e/V4)

7 I read somewhere that sometimes adults with childlike voices-- like Cindy Sheehan's-- were sexually molested as children and that they retain that voice because of some bizarre psychological phenomena.

Posted by: Carlos at September 25, 2005 09:14 PM (8e/V4)

8 it is strange, isnt it Carlos...Cindy sure as heck must be in her fifties judging from her looks yet sounds like a 20 year old, though i dont know much about psychological...ill have to ask my wife as she works for a criminal psychologist, she might have some knowledge on the subject, and if its true it may explain alot about Cindy Sheenan seeming psychosis and behavior in acting that she speaks for and with her dead son and her thinking that she is the mother of all mothers and bears all their pain and suffering and that only she can do such...she can only hide behind her shield of motherhood for so long before people begin to see her as a very troubled woman with some very deep issues

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 25, 2005 10:52 PM (FMsU7)

9 It's that circular logic thing being used here. Her supporters say "It's not about Cindy. It's about Bush." But when what she says about Bush (or any number of things) is attacked, they say, "What do you expect? Her son died!" and suddenly, it's all about Cindy again. The idea is that it's indelicate to speak badly of a grieving mother no matter what she says. So we aren't supposed to say anything at all because no matter what we say, if it's not in complete support of her, it's construed as an attack on her. The anti-war crowd expects us to understand the concept of their support of the troops without supporting their cause, but they can't understand that we support her right of free speech without supporting her cause. The latter makes much more sense to me. But hey, that's just me.

Posted by: Oyster at September 26, 2005 10:37 AM (fl6E1)

10 But hey, that's just me. No, no it's not.

Posted by: Brian B at September 26, 2005 12:26 PM (CouWh)

11 mMRE REASON WHY THESE IDIOTS RAE NOT INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH AND THEY RIDE AROUND WITH BLINDERS ON

Posted by: sandpiper at September 26, 2005 01:54 PM (bTjmD)

12 You are right, Cindy Sheehan is no Gary Qualls. To begin with, she has never been a mercenary and she did not get a hard on when her son enlisted! And I don't believe Gary is that hot to have his surviving son killed for a lie either! Gary Qualls is also no Cindy Sheehan. Ask him to speak about the time he and Cindy spent together in Crawford. He departed that conversation sharing a hug with Cindy and expressing admiration for her.

Posted by: Jeff Charlotte at September 26, 2005 04:47 PM (v0Zj2)

13 This is the first I have heard of an unread letter. Can you share a link that explains this? Casey's life story has been shared by Cindy. He sounds like a gentle and good man who also stepped up for America when it was his time-- unlike our President and Vice President when they had the chance, who are so willing to send others to kill and die. I don't understand this hostility to anyone who questions this war. Just say that the shifting premises for this war don't really bother you-- starting with nonexistent WMD. The UN inspectors actually left Iraq and quit before their jobs were finished *because* Bush had to start his war. It wasn't that "Saddam wouldn't let them in" as Bush told an astonished Kofi Annan. Then it wasn't that, it was to get Saddam. Then we got him and the war kept on. Then it was to "bring freedom and democracy" to the Iraq people. Really? Is that what they have now? Women have to fear kidnapping and rape so much they are prisoners in their homes in a way they never were under the Saddam regime. These modern and educated women are being chased back into repressive Islamic fundamentalist cover. So the American people weren't told the truth when their government started a war of choice-- Iraq had little to do with 9-11 nor al Qaeda--- and it's the people who question our noble military being misused and sent to die and kill for lies, that are the objects of your hate and contempt? I don't get it. OK, say it doesn't matter that we were lied to about the cause-- the point is, the Neocon plan to install an America-friendly "democracy" in Iraq actually IS vital to our national security and they just couldn't tell us that before the war because they were trying to sell it. Then that means you're saying our volunteer forces can be subject to endless rotations and backdoor drafts, conditions they never bargained for. And they trusted our government to spend their blood sparingly, only if absolutely necessary. How long do you think we'll retain willing volunteers? Bush has done more to damage our fine military than any recent president. These volunteers were subject to a bait and switch -- volunteer to defend America, get trapped in an ignoble optional war of choice, without the American people being told the truth about the real causes to start the war. Even worse, fight the first "pre-emptive" war-- attack lest we be attacked, because the imminent threat was a total Bush administration lie. It seems a "pre-emptive" justification alone should be held to a more rigorous standard of truth. You send people to die on a bet, you better be damn sure. Families of America, give us your greatest sacrifice and say goodbye to your noblest members-- and never mind why! It is not for the America that you knew! Can you not see that while war is an evil, the American ethos is only to commit a "necessary evil" to protect us in a world full of evil. That we believe in our goodness and justice. That America has to be strong to be safe. That it is the pride of a free people that makes us unbeatable. How does a war based on lies make us stronger? These evils are committed by our young people -- bombing, maiming, torturing and burning civilians-- men, women and children-- when it was *not* absolutely necessary. This is itself a very great evil visited upon the American soul and deserves to be questioned. It makes America the Huns, the empire makers, the conquistadores, the pillagers and rapists. We are not North Korea or Uzbekistan. Thank God. But what is this war doing to us? What is our military becoming? This is why this movement is anti-THIS war. Can't you look at what's in front of your eyes? Who is getting rich off of this? The American people, the Iraqi people--- no. It's Halliburton and its subsidiaries. With no-bid, no-ceiling contracts, Halliburton still managed to find ways to cheat the American taxpayer out of millions and our soldiers out of their food. Could anything be more evil? How about Cheney's war of choice, concocted by his pressure on our intelligence agencies? A war we didn't have to fight, that he profits from, with yearly deposits into his bank account by Halliburton? Destroy the country, game the intelligence and manipulate your government into being the destroyer, and give his own company the contract to "fix" it. Isn't that a war crime? OK, say it isn't. Say, USA, right or wrong, don't think, don't question, when we kill it's patriotic no matter the cause. Say there won't be a judgement day, ever, and we have a license to kill whoever we want to take whatever we want. And blind unquestioning unthinking loyalty towards the administration who lied to start the war is required if you love America. Stipulate to that, then does this administration seem even marginally competent to you? Does it seem like they have the least idea how to build security for the Iraqi people? More than 2 years later and electricity is more scarce for the people of Baghdad than before we invaded. The military can't even provide basic security, water, electricity for the Iraqi people. So the suicide bombers prove how evil the foreign insurgents are and THAT shows why we are fighting? The Iraqi people weren't subject to daily bombings of civilians before we invaded and broke their nation. Isn't this occupation the best recruitment tool for those who believe in violence against America? Doesn't this justify their worst accusations? Do you really think this makes us safer? Doesn't it look like they are recruiting faster than we can kill them, unless we are prepared for major massacres in a civilian population? Do you really think this administration has a clue as to what to do? One theory is that their actual agenda is chaos, because they are stealing Iraq's unmetered oil money daily, as we speak. Death and chaos are no problem to the Bush cartel because they profit from it. So it doesn't matter to them that they never had a plan to win the peace. It suits their purpose. So one of Bush's latest justifications for the war was to "keep the oil out of the hands of terrorists." Was that a risk before he destabilized the country? Didn't the sanctions totally control to whom the oil was sold and for what profit? So those who protested, "no blood for oil" to stop the war before it started, were just being "leftards". What America is supposed to stand for, be damned! Is that the real story? With all this in front of our eyes, how can you be so threatened by someone whose conscience and soul demands that they question why their country kills? All Cindy Sheehan has asked Bush to answer is, "for what noble cause did my son die?" Can he say? It's a straightforward question that goes to the heart of why America went to war. All he has to do is say what we are doing there. And all Bush has done is run away lest he be held accountable.

Posted by: eaglescry at September 26, 2005 10:45 PM (jz7M7)

14 eaglescry: I stopped reading when you got the part, "...who also stepped up for America when it was his time-- unlike our President...". [boldface mine] Why is this still being spouted? It's totally false. If you want people to understand what you want to say, and to read further, don't start off with hogwash. If anyone else wants to address your other points, they're welcome. I'm not wasting my time with you. You already set the tone right off the bat in my book and shown me that you're ready to tell any lie to base your argument on.

Posted by: Oyster at September 27, 2005 08:22 AM (fl6E1)

15 I think the Galloway/Hitchens debates may be the turning point in all of this, because it's hard for me to imagine even a leftist thinking that Galloway made a single salient point, let alone a coherent argument. I think the shiney object that got the monkey's paw caught in the jar was the notion that WMD were a "gotcha" that could be cashed in for some big political reward. It's a non-issue for the people serving there, because they have Hitchens' vision and not Galloway's. Nearly all of them could answer Mother Sheehan's questions, and they could probably put a few to her that she'd not be able to weasel out of very easily. But the bottom line is that in order to cash in on their "big gotcha" the adolescents in the anti-war left have had to stake out a pro-fascist and pro-injustice position that makes their entire movement a sunk cost. They'd be far better off to just abandon it, but they won't. Anyway, here's something completely different from Neo Con Blogger.

Posted by: Demosophist at September 27, 2005 10:58 AM (ssZK8)

16 One intelligent posting from Eaglescry. One of the other type from the Oyster

Posted by: wayne at September 27, 2005 09:20 PM (ozLpm)

17 oyster: There is some issue as to whether Bush showed up for his entire term of service. I will share a link for the exercise: http://www.awolbush.com/faq.asp. Bush was suspended from flying after failing to show up for a physical shortly after the military instituted mandatory random drug testing. The point I was trying to get to is that Bush supported the war of his generation but declined to serve in combat. Whatever Casey's beliefs, he volunteered for the military and ended up in a combat zone, where he died shortly thereafter. Cheney got himself 5 deferments during the Vietnam war because "he had other priorities." He also supported the Vietnam war but declined to serve. So I guess I don't see how my statement was a lie-- nobody has ever claimed Bush served in Vietnam. Casey sure served in Iraq. Bush and Cheney both seem pretty willing to send other people into combat when they both ducked the chance to experience it for themselves. I was just trying to see what would happen if I really tried to talk to someone who supports this war and Bush and all he stands for. I have family who are on your side of the fence as well, and we have been avoiding discussion of current affairs since the war started. I would like to be able to talk to my family. It does seem like this country is polarized -- people don't support or object to this war "a little"-- the positions are absolute. How can this be? I really got into it with a friend of mine over it. He pointed out that he was neither a Bush supporter nor a basher, but both sides seemed to have an agenda for him and both sides make little fallacious leaps without logic in their arguments. So to him, neither side makes their case. He reckons he will end up a pariah. We did end up being able to talk and I asked him some of the same questions in the post. It hasn't felt like my country since the bombs began dropping on Baghdad and I turned on Fox TV to see the anchors gloating over the firepower lighting up the nightime skies. As though they were watching a fireworks show and we had the best and biggest bang. Deep destructive "booms" erupted over a populated city, recasting the modern skyline in a molten glow. People were dying in those flashes of light. And even if you believed in the war, how could those people dying be a subject of gloating? Baghdad was a modern functional city with educated citizens, markets, a cultural life and families and young and old people going about their business. Those bombs were a horror and the glee with which America celebrated them seemed evil to me. It wasn't too long after the horror of watching airplanes used as bombs on our biggest city. When our buildings exploded and fell and the innocents died, the whole world grieved with us. The LeMonde headline (in a French newspaper) said, "we are all Americans now." And America does not respond to these outstretched hands of support-- we do not join this family of humanity and civilization-- we turn around and claim the right to commit mass murder ourselves-- oops, I mean our right to start a pre-emptive war of choice. I guess the short point in my post was that even if the various rationales for the war don't bother you rhetorically, then doesn't it really seem like this administration doesn't know how to succeed in this war anyway? And if that's the case, isn't it better to stop the bloodshed sooner than later? And to be honest, I don't understand someone who can be fine with their country being at war, sending our people to kill and die, with the reason for the war being "whatever." Fine, I am not asking you to "waste your time." I was just trying to see what happened if I really tried to communicate. To be honest, to be around people or try to talk to people with the views reflected in some of the posts on this blog just makes me heartsick and seems so futile anyway. And I have read posts on Michael Yon's blog in an effort to understand. He is a good human being in a situation that is way over my head and it seems like the people he writes about are just tremendous men. I was just trying to understand some of the power I sense in the people he writes about and reconcile it with the sickening feeling that we are causing grave suffering when we did not have to. Creating immense suffering in the civilian Iraqi population, for no good purpose or for the nefarious purposes of those who profit from the chaos. When as far as I can tell, our country would have been better off finishing the job in Afghanistan, making it strong, and trying and convicting Osama bin Laden. This war however, is also having another effect on our people in the military: http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/us-soldiers-allegedly-trading-pictures.html . Something bad is happening. Remember, before Bush? Americans weren't dying and our young people's hearts were not being coarsened and hardened and inured to death and suffering. I am not closing my eyes and I'm trying to understand and I did start writing that post because I don't understand the intense hostility and contempt for anyone who questions this war. Like if you are a supporter, your hands are in your ears and you are going, "lalalalalala" because you just don't want to hear it. And how dare anyone question you or even try to point out, "wait a minute." I have a leftover superstition from my Christian upbringing that I will face my maker someday, and all will be revealed and I will be held to account on what I did to the "least of these among us" and what I allowed to happen without doing anything. So, I just took a shot at communicating to see what would happen. Moving on.

Posted by: eaglescry at September 28, 2005 02:35 AM (jz7M7)

18 eaglescry: If you had a brain and a little common sense you could answer the Sheehan bitch's question yourself. But you can't, can you.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 28, 2005 06:47 PM (6krEN)

19 Guess I'm a moran. Explain the answer. Spell it out for me. I tried googling "Gary Qualls letter" to find the text and couldn't turn it up. You belong to the half that "gets it" to whom it's so obvious it doesn't need to be stated. I come from the polarized half that doesn't "get it" the way you do and so I'll ask you to tell me the answer.

Posted by: eaglescry at September 28, 2005 07:32 PM (jz7M7)

20 I guess EAGLESCRY is right, he must be a moron. Everything is posted on GOOGLE, or has he really tried to search for the info? Duhhhhhh, go to WWW.Quallsmemorialfund.org , click on, "In Memory Of", or just type in my name or my son's name. Be sure to go to WWW.Fort Qualls too. When there, be sure to read the blog stuff, you'll see the true mentality and speach quality of the Cindy Sheehan writers and their potty mouths. They match what Cindy reflects. Father Of A Fallen Hero, Gary W. Qualls

Posted by: Gary W. Qualls at September 29, 2005 10:25 AM (wL++F)

21 SPEACH (speech) was misspelled on purpose.

Posted by: Gary W. Qualls at September 29, 2005 10:31 AM (wL++F)

22 I guess Eaglescry is the only Moron who posts here . everone else understands--- that to go to war over contrived lies is something we should be proud of, all patriots understands this. all but this one. Guess that makes me moron number two.

Posted by: patriot at September 29, 2005 08:25 PM (Mpp8f)

23 Wayne: I believe she actually is glad her son died. She is getting the 15 minutes her ugly ass has never received before. She is in hog heaven. Look at her smiles on every photo. No one remembers her son because of her stupid actions. She has defiled her sons memory. Her family has disowned her. Her husband has filed for divorse. Only the leftard, liberal assholes who pay her to defamed America gain by her horrible behavior. Cindy Sheehan is shit. Nothing else. Just shit.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 29, 2005 10:41 PM (ywZa8)

24 MORAN (moron) was mispelled on purpose as a hat tip to this guy: http://home.houston.rr.com/moridin/get-a-brain-morans.jpg He was protesting a peace protest with some helpful advice. All of us evil peace protestors have found it amusing ever since. It was nice of him to inject a little humor in the situation, however inadvertently. Thanks for spelling out the speach thing though in case I missed it. And thanks for pointing out what a smackdown that was on your part in case I missed that too. Good one. duhhh, the reason I was asking for a lead is because i never heard of quallsmemorialfund.org until I came here and asked for the information. duhhhh, thanks for the lead to www.fort qualls too. duhhh, those links really did not turn up in google. honest. ok, my time on this blog is showing me how to talk to you guys. Be incredibly ANGRY no matter what someone is saying to you, even if they are asking you to tell them what you think or how you feel about things, once you smell that evil liberal commie peace protestor scent of their logic. Even if they take the risk of baring their souls a little bit first to show they are approaching you as a fellow human being. liberal sighting--- BE VERY ANGRY! ...I get it. oh well. I gotta tell ya, just testing the waters around here could burn someone's toes. I thought instead of being in my own echo chamber I would actually try talking to you guys and listening to what you think about things and find out why you are so angry with us. We say we support the troops but I don't know how many of us have tried listening to you guys and maybe trying to understand why you think we don't. I'm not messing with you Mr. Qualls, I really will check out the links you gave me and what you said there. I haven't lost a family member in a war and you have every right to what you feel. I thank you and your family for my freedom, I truly do. I am so sorry for the pain your family is going through and I deeply honor your son and what he did for our country. I love America and what it stands for, or what I understand it to stand for, what it means to me. I feel the country I knew slipping away and this causes me great grief every day. Because I think my country is better than this. That includes me and that includes you, all of us Americans. The demands of the times are pressing on our souls, it feels imperative to take action, to do what's right... right now. I think our democratic experiment is in grave trouble. I question this war because I am trying to do what's right. You must be doing what you think is right too. I don't think that with all the tension these days, that many of us that you are so angry with, have tried to understand your point of view. [that is an annoying liberal trait you know, to try to understand what we do that creates the anger of others. to try to find out what injustice there is beyond our current awareness that may be moving people to such fury, to try to find the imbalance that can be corrected.] I think that is one reason America is *so* good, is that our political struggle has always been for competing ideas of goodness. "I'm for good!" "No! Our side is for good!" And we are surrounded by a great and growing goodness, all the time in this country. It is the most amazing country on earth. This goodness seems in great peril right now to me-- because of the scenarios I brought up in previous posts and more. They weren't talking points, they are what I see and it's terrible to me. I thought I would try to understand what you see. Funny how our national anthem starts off, "Oh say! Can you see!" with such great and stirring feeling... there are so many beautiful things about America. Knowing that we both feel that way, I just thought it might be better if we tried to talk. I don't know if it might be constructive or not, I thought I would at least try it. I do believe in my cause and I know you do yours and I don't know if we may find ourselves in common cause or not. If we are, maybe we could do better.

Posted by: eaglescry at September 29, 2005 11:17 PM (jz7M7)

25 hi patriot!! you moran! http://home.houston.rr.com/moridin/get-a-brain-morans.jpg nice to see another friendly face, i mean moran around

Posted by: eaglescry at September 29, 2005 11:21 PM (jz7M7)

26 mroan here--- Could you please help with the blog link on fortqualls.com-- i could not find it--only the email link and the link back to the qualls memorial fund. I spent time on the qualls memorial site. The integrity and fortitude and humanity and humor shining out of that young man's face... I was very humbled. What a contribution and what a life he lived in his short time here. Your family walks the walk. I talk the talk. I am trying to make that real talk at least, in service of the guidance of my conscience. I am starting to see why you find no words. Only dignity is necessary. I think part of the anger with Cindy Sheehan is that the display is unseemly in the face of their sacrifice. I would like the blog link too please if you would not mind spelling it out for a moran. It will help to fill in the picture.

Posted by: eaglescry at September 30, 2005 12:29 AM (jz7M7)

27 For something on the lighter side I looked up the meaning of "Moran" http://www.answers.com the on line dictionary had a link to the genius who originated the word "MORAN" . http://photos1.blogger.com/img/270/1396/320/moran.jpg... think I will just stick with being a moron, and let the other side keep their moniker of MORAN

Posted by: patriot at October 02, 2005 03:37 AM (QPnrn)

28 ever feel like you're crying into the wind

Posted by: eaglescry at October 02, 2005 12:11 PM (jz7M7)

29 I'm the mother of Louis Qualls, I can only say that our sons did what God lead them to do and we can't change this.I remmeber talking to Louis before he left,he said he couldn't let his friends down his brothers in arms. I ask you all instead of putting your efforts into coming against each other for something we cannot change, our sons made their choices,and now as we are proud of them,let them be proud of us and take a stand togather as one ,as they did and change things,not fight with eachother and juge each other,may be we can make changes so the next war will not take so many of our youth,before they had a chance to live.

Posted by: dolphine at October 15, 2005 11:50 AM (fJe3t)

30 It's always revealing how "old" blogs and posts become relative or modified with time, like this one. The minority are now the majority and the war mongers have no one but themselves to blame. They couldn't be honest with the American people nor even with each other and that dishonesty has caused their decay. Poetic Justice. Hopefully, Gary Qualls will one day come to understand that his son did not die for Liberty for Iraqis or Freedom for Americans, but rather oil profit and secret geopolitical agenda the likes of which were too distasteful for the planners to reveal. God Bless America

Posted by: DJ_Dalton at November 26, 2005 10:15 PM (jdpDv)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

The thing is dysfunctional. Clearly the comment filter isn't working. I don't know whether Pixy can address this, or Rusty, but there's something decidedly silly going on. And for once it's not me. The following item quoted from a previous comment in the same thread results consistently in a "questionable content" rejection:

If you are really a cadre of badass street-brawling paint-huffing nihilists, how come you fight relentlessly for the side of big government and Hegelian progressivism?

Why a quoted comment that has already passed the comment filter results in a rejection if it's quoted simply escapes me, but clearly something is messed up. My comment on the above quote is simply that if anarchism made sense, it wouldn't be anarchism. But there's also such a thing as too much control.

Posted by: Demosophist at 12:59 PM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
Post contains 145 words, total size 1 kb.

The story that seemed to kind of hang under the radar this week is the Bird Flu has reached Indonesia and bird culls are taking place there. I decided to see just what I could find out about H5N1 and flu vaccines and treatments in general. H5N1 is expected to follow the same path other flu does. Starting in chickens and ducks and migrating to swine and humans although direct jumps to humans are possible. I was able to find no one saying this is all a bunch of hooey. So while IÂ’m not panicked and donÂ’t think anyone else should there are a few issues that need attention here.

IÂ’ve collected a big pile of links and will post them below the break so you too can be informed and make your own judgements. Because when you rely on the government or the drug companies, Well you get the idea. Howie also has his commentary below. more...

Posted by: Howie at 11:46 AM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
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This man is talking a big game, and I hope he's playing it too. The Prime Minister of Thailand, Thaksin Shinawatra, has a serious Islamist insurrection in the south of his country, and he's giving an ultimatum: if he doesn't crush the insurgency in three years, he's asked Thailand to vote him out of office.

One of the interesting steps he's taking is banning dual citizenship for Thais who were born in Malaysia or cross into Thailand to work--and to vote. After two Thai Navy officers were beaten to death in a village, the PM observed that the incident "made us realise that it's time to solve this problem once and for all. Those militants have no gratitude to their motherland, which has given them the freedom to practice any religious faith,"

Dual citizenship is a strange thing. I'm not sure how much of Thailand's problems it is actually responsible for, but certainly it's an interesting parallel with our own border problems in which people without any loyalty to the United States, often unwilling to cut their allegiance with their homeland, have arrived en masse over a porous border.

It's a good first step, I think: Thaksin has told his people to pick a side--you're for pluralist Thailand, or you're for Islamist Malaysia. The protection of the laws in a country--in other words, to have rights-- entails responsibilities and basic loyalty as well, and it's interesting that Thailand has caught on to this distinction even as many open-borders advocates in the USA continue to miss it. It's Thailand's version of "You're either with us, or with the terrorists...and don't show up looking for welfare if you're with the terroroists.".

Posted by: seedubya at 04:56 AM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
Post contains 283 words, total size 2 kb.

Thanks to Michelle Malkin's shutterbug skills, we have at last captured the likeness of the obnoxious, once-banned Jawa Report Troll From Seoul calling himself "Downing Street Memo"--though he remains mysterious behind dark glasses:

more...

Posted by: seedubya at 12:54 AM | Comments (15) | Add Comment
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I'm not going to DC to witness the demonstrations, because it's just too depressing. I once thought that any policy mistakes the US happens to make will get sorted out in the public debate. That's the way democracy works, I figured. But mainstream media doesn't even appear capable of discussing the 2005 hurricane phenomenon with any degree of competence, let alone the strategy and tactics we're using in the "Long War Against Irreconcilable Islam." It's not so much that they're wrong, as that there isn't even a core of sense to grab onto. It isn't that their analysis is flawed, so much as that they have no idea what they're talking about. It's like your mechanic telling you that your car isn't running because your parachute wasn't packed properly. We can't have productive discussions about policy because almost half the public doesn't realize the cheese has slid off their cracker.

more...

Posted by: Demosophist at 11:23 PM | Comments (16) | Add Comment
Post contains 381 words, total size 2 kb.

While the antiwar movement claims their only concern is for the troops, any one who listens to their rhetoric for more than two minutes understands that they have an underlying agenda. These people hate the U.S. with as much passion as Osoma bin Laden. Below are a number of photos from today's rally in Washington, D.C.

I was all set to do a Blog Sabbath caption contest when I noticed some of the signs at the Mother Saint Cindy Sheehan protest rally which can't be ignored. Notice that Sheehan wants 'the truth'. The truth about what? 9/11? Check out the sign in the background.

Here it is blown up. It says Expose 9/11 Cover-Up.

more...

Posted by: Rusty at 03:53 PM | Comments (127) | Add Comment
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1 and of course there is one of the trouble brothers, Jesse Jackson, right there giving Cindy tips on what to say and do....guess Al couldnt make it....what a bunch of conniving losers there people really are....Cindy has such a smug look on her face, id like to smack it right off, normally i would never hit a woman, but for Cindy, i would make that exception....bunch of X-File watching people are all that Cindy has as followers...wheres the smoking man at Mother Cindy???

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 24, 2005 04:48 PM (FMsU7)

2 I am baffled by this commentary. The hate is really yours, you are only projecting it on the people protesting for a real cause, stopping the destruction, corruption, and greed of the Bush administration and its calamitous policies at home and abroad. You point out signs with things you don't like and then make outlandish claims about what 'they' believe. Is this all you have to say? Take a deep breath, count to ten, and think about the connection between the policies of the administration and their personal economic benefit. Think about how their justifications for their actions change everytime they are exposed as lies, how their responses are knee-jerk accusations and name-calling, and most of all, think about any other time in history when a country has been led into tyranny by its nose with propaganda, lies and manipulation of the people's basest fears-sound familiar? You are living it.

Posted by: rebeccac at September 24, 2005 05:31 PM (CtTb4)

3 Rebeccac, you wrote "think about the connection between the politics of the administration and their personal economic benefits". Please tell me your CONNECTION isn't something like Fahrenheit 911, did you really think you make a difference talking about some connection, what connection? How about you count to ten and think about Clinton and all his lies. When his number one lie caused us to miss an opportunity to kill Osama Bin Laden. Sorry, but YOU ARE LIVING IT!

Posted by: RJC at September 24, 2005 05:45 PM (Ltd4h)

4 It's ok, Rebecca, if I didn't have a date on Saturday night I'd be bitter too.

Posted by: Vinnie at September 24, 2005 05:46 PM (Kr6/f)

5 As usual, I follow one of your links and 2 hours and five more links later, my mouth is hanging open at all the lunacy. Some DUers are really upset about the "protest". Some of them are just beginning to realize their party has been hi-jacked.

Posted by: Oyster at September 24, 2005 06:00 PM (YudAC)

6 Cindy Sheehan, publicity whore.

Posted by: Redhand at September 24, 2005 06:44 PM (TrmBs)

7 She's probably been an attention whore her entire life. I'm starting to just feel sorry for her. Yall need to pop me one in the head if I ever get that bad...please.

Posted by: tyler at September 24, 2005 06:49 PM (t+GZI)

8 Hmmm. I don't see how the so called "conspiracy" is viewed as an underlying agenda. Many supporters of Cindy believe that Bush and his regime should stand trial for their crimes. Guess what. It's no secret. In fact it's very well known. One of the people that was involved in organizing these events in D.C. is Ramsey Clark, Former U.S. Attny. General who is also part of www.impeachbush.org. Keep in mind that there are several groups in D.C. today and they are all intermingling with each other. The "conspiracy" signs may very will belong to people of other groups who support Cindy or just happened to be near by when the cameras were flashing. The fact is you don't know. I also find it interesting that Thanos35's response to Cindy Sheehan is that of a violent nature. Should I be surprised or is this what I should expect from conservatives who say they believe in moral values? Making an exception diminishes any claim you could have to moral superiority. Some might even call it un-American to use violence in opposition of someone else's civil right to free speech. Of course I could just be making an assumption that Thanos35 is a conservative. I do not agree with everything on the liberal side of the fence nor do I agree with everything on the conservative side but I do agree whole-heartedly with the 1st Amendment and that is stronger than any political ideology. I support Cindy Sheehan and her cause. I also support your rights be here and express your opposition to Cindy even if I don't agree with you. Violence would never be a solution I would consider to express opposition but I guess that's just the Christian in me. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 24, 2005 07:09 PM (amTdN)

9 The people Cindy *really* needs to talk to are the men in the white coats.

Posted by: Spamiam at September 24, 2005 07:12 PM (WRWan)

10 Greetings You kevtch about the "expose the 9/11 cover-up" sign, however, are you really sure that there was not a cover-up? Have you read the "official" 9/11 report (I have) and have you read any of the other material that questions the Official report? There are all sorts of HOLES in the OFFICIAL story and a REAL investigation is much needed at this time. Also, if you plan to vote in the 2006 election, get an absentee ballot, that way you can be sure that there is a paper record of your VOTE in the case of a recount. Voting machines are BOGUS! Peace Love and may justice prevail.

Posted by: MuthaFrog at September 24, 2005 07:15 PM (/zIC1)

11 Alright, who opened the Black Gate of Mordor?

Posted by: Vinnie at September 24, 2005 07:26 PM (Kr6/f)

12 You tell'em, Rebecca and Sean! Bush shoud have known better. Only Communists, Muslims and traitors like yourselves have the right to murder American soldiers! How DARE he!

Posted by: DaveP. at September 24, 2005 07:40 PM (6iy97)

13 I was going to respond to DaveP. but the fact that his rant has nothing to do with what Rebecca and I said speaks for itself. That's OK becasue I still support his 1st Amendment right to say it. Gee. I guess I did respond ;-)

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 24, 2005 08:14 PM (amTdN)

14 By any means necessary....

Posted by: olde American at September 24, 2005 08:16 PM (5v/r0)

15 Well, I watched an hour or two of the rally, and then intermittently throughout the day(during commercials), and I have to say this rally is the biggest circle jerk I've ever seen.(let's just reinforce and repeat what each other says, never mind the facts) Not even enough people to drown out the gal with the bongos, although I have to admit that the earlier crowd was bigger. The thing that amazed me was that they claimed 250K people in attendance, and to even the most casual eye there were nowhere NEAR that many; perhaps 25%-40% of their claim. The aerial shots will confirm this, although I have no idea where to find this online; the ones they showed on C-span were enough for me. Sheesh!

Posted by: Lonevoice at September 24, 2005 08:59 PM (vcZAe)

16 Look when only 20% of the people think we can win the war, according to USA Today poll,then we ARE NOT going to win it. Now we can blame Clinton, or the French, or the liberals, or the commies. Or we can blame the neocons. or Bush, or, or, ........... But at this point we should look at it as a gamble that we lost. Now let's cut our loses and get out. Does anyone do math anymore ??? 250 billion spent on 25 million Iraqis equals 10,000 EACH !!! Average Iraqi household is just under 7 persons. That is 70,000 dollars per Iraqui household so far. Please tell me how much longer we should stay and at what point the Iraqis will be our friends instead of Osama's friends. Gas is 3.50gal, Remember the lefties "No blood for oil" well we gave the blood, where is the oil?

Posted by: john Ryan at September 24, 2005 09:09 PM (ads7K)

17 Sean's defense of Sheehan's first ammendment right, I support. BUT, his defense of Sheehan as a reasonable person is ridiculous. He cites Ramsey Clark as an organizer of today's march, as if that somehow legitimizes the event. Clark himself is a far left critic of US foreign policy, and it's not surprising that he'd be on the bandwagon protesting anything the US does overseas. He protested against every one of Clinton's military interventions. As for Sheehan, it's best to let her words speak for herself. “America has been killing people,” she said at a rally supporting a US lawyer CONVICTED of aiding terrorists, “since we first stepped on this continent. And we have been responsible for death and destruction.” Balanced? Sheehan's a knee-jerk reactionary. And a bad choice to be the poster child for those who have reasonable criticisms of the Bush Administrations handling of US foreign policy.

Posted by: Michael at September 24, 2005 09:14 PM (RfAGt)

18 Does anybody else think Cindy looks like Peppermint Patty besides me?

Posted by: Dinah at September 24, 2005 09:27 PM (ywZa8)

19 okay, here we go Sean....first off, yes i am a conservative and i voted for Bush even though i do not agree with EVERYTHING he says and does...second, yes, Cindy needs a good smack in here face so she will wake up to the bullshit she is doing and saying just so she can extend her sickining 15 seconds of INFAMY....no fame in her exploiting her sons death...oh yea, she might have been his mom but she claims she speaks for him...bull...the man was killed by terrorists in Iraq and she glorifies these same terrorists...she claims she knows what he was thinking, oh really Mother Cindy, now you have telapthy???...wow!!!...she speaks to the dead as well!!!...she must be the second coming of Christ....she makes her son out to have been a child since she claims he was forced to join the first time and again to rejoin...uuummmm,he was over 18, that made him an ADULT with the rights to choose....sounds like to me she deserves a smack in her face,,,wouldnt you smack someone if they lied to youre face, called youre mom or dad a whore or a bastard, cause i sure as hell would tear that person, man or woman, a new ass...thats not being violent like the terrorists who murder children and than plant a bomb in that childs body just so they can blow up the childs parents when they come to claim the body....im smacking her because she has insulted not just me but as all...the woman is a communist supporter and also supports other violent groups who want to overthrow our democratically elected goverment and replace it with a dictatorship were you have NO rights at all....and you call me violent???...you are a hypocrite...and who is she shown with in those pictures but one of the biggest liars and hypocrites of all...Jesse Jackson, the man who talked to President Bill Clinton about not cheating on youre spouse, while Jesse Jackson ,a married man himself, had a MISTRESS, who he had a child with!!...now George Bush may not be perfect but he sure as hell hasnt done anything like that while he is in the White House...sure how nice, Bill, getting bj's in the Oval Office , maybe on the very desk that many great Presidents of the USA signed many historic papers and thought many earth affecting thoughts, and all Bill could think of was his johnson, and yet George Bush is the DEvil to the liberal/leftists....how sickining these small minded,ignorant, arrogant and totally demented people are...if i didnt know better i would think that liberal/leftists are like the Uri-Ki from the Lord of The Rings movies...born from the mud, all covered in filth and clamoring for blood cause that is just how they look to me...and you talk about me using violence to prevent someone from using their free speach...these liberals/leftists would love to shout me down or TRY and intimidate me from speaking my mind because they are so afraid of me speaking the truth and they fear the truth so they spew their lies till they actually believe the garbage they scream out...i know this because i have dealt with some of these very people, but see, i mess with their heads when i refuse to back down and i fight back...oh yea, they act like 4 year olds when they dont get their way, have a temper tantrum, but that doesnt bother me one bit, go ahead scream , rant and rave all you want, deny what i say, wont do you any good, as the truth is already out there and all the lies you spew wont change the facts....always the same with you people...liberals/leftists want to believe that them and only them have knowledge and they want to keep it from the rest of the people, and that only they can speak their views and i am supposed to be like some good slave and keep my eyes on the ground and my mouth shut...see but i know something...ALL KNOWLEDGE IS POWER...how you use that power is what makes the difference...seems to me that people like Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Cindy Sheenan and Michael Moore abuse that power and twist their words to try and corrupt and poison the peoples minds...all these people use half truths and right out blatant lies to confuse and blind the citizens of the US and foment hate for President Bush...yea, we as citizens of the US might have the right to speak pretty much whatever we want but you also should not abuse that right.....yes, you have the right to say that you dont like Bush, you think he is doing a terrible job and to have a peacefull protest, but when you step over the line by saying you think that Bush and his administration should be overthrown and you have violent groups in cahoots with you, you are just daring for a kick in youre ass and daym skippy im the guy to do it....and youre gonna get two kicks when youre going to be some decieving, lying, whore mongering, attention seeking person like Cindy Sheenan or Jesse Jackson or Mikey Moore who are hypocrites all

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 24, 2005 09:35 PM (FMsU7)

20 As you scrool thru the posts..the prowar crowd are always the name callers, non readers and those who do not explain their prowar, pro corporate views..it is like a new version of christianity invented by Bushco..chant the mantra..freedom is not free, name call, no reading and no web surfing..esp to sites explaining the playbook your children may be asked to die for..the Project for the New American Century..Skip all else..Most Republicans do not even know what it is and their think tank invented it..and the DEMS all embrace it too..one party one media..all corporate..M

Posted by: Marie at September 24, 2005 09:39 PM (I7jnr)

21 Typical Marie. Don't know how many times I've heard the left say the that right is uninformed, misinformed, or disinformed, and vice versa, but too many. Plenty of people on the right read, and your myopic partisanship is evident when you accuse the 'prowar crowd' of not reading or explaining their views. Maybe that's because you only go to salon.com, commondreams.com, etc. Break out of your bubble, and you'll find all kinds of erudite conservative commentary, which you might not still agree with, but at least you'll be disabused of the simpleton's notion that people who disagree with you must not read.

Posted by: Michael at September 24, 2005 09:55 PM (RfAGt)

22 Marie, it shows that you do not come here often as the libs/leftists show some of the best{?} ability at name calling and flat out non-sensical rants...second, do you have a problem with christianity???...you made a remark about Bushco inventing a new form of christianity so it seems you have some prejudice with that religion...do you support the so called "Religion of Peace" terrorists, or should i call them freedom fighters or perhaps insurgents???and you once again have played the same ploy that liberals/leftists/conspiray theory nuts, like to scream about...and why should i explain my prowar views to someone who isnt going to LISTEN to one word i say since they already have their mind made up and that being that i am evil and a warmongering Christian...gee, i dont feel evil today and i didnt kill anyone by strapping a bomb vest to my body and walking into a crowded store and detonating myself...does that make me a bad person or does that make the terrorists the bad guys with no guilt, no morals, no sence of humanity...nothing but a love for nilhilism...thats the Religion of Peace for ya....hope you like them, because if we all thought like you, we will all be on our knees 7 times a day praying to a rock...lovely...have a nice day

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 24, 2005 09:56 PM (FMsU7)

23 Dittoing Redhand. Cindy Shee-needs a-Han-dout is a money grubbing publicity whore that is pissing on her sons grave.

Posted by: Sgt Beavis at September 24, 2005 10:12 PM (M19Aw)

24 Michael - It doesn't matter what you or I think of Cindy Sheehan and her motives. That wasn't really the point of my post. As for Ramsey Clark, I simply used him as an example becasue it directly related to my point. It seems that the original topic has been forgotten. Does anyone remember the pictures at the top of this page and the connection that Dr. Shackleford tries to draw based on random signs being held by random people? The Clark reference was simply to illustrate the fact that Cindy Sheehan was not the only person/group involved in the protests. I used Clark's sight because it directly related to the signs in the pictures and the general concensus of his site. As for defending Cindy Sheehans 1st Amendment rights...well, I see how I could have worded that better. Let me be more clear. I do not believe it's possible to defend an individuals 1st Amendment rights becasue it isn't a right that belongs to any individuals. It is a right that belongs to all people equally as individuals. That is why I also said that I support your rights to express your opposing view. I also stated that the 1st Amendment is greater than any political ideology. I hope I was able to clear up some things. God Bless

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 24, 2005 11:07 PM (/Qmc1)

25 "What connection?" you ask. You must follow Bush's lead of not reading. Really, you can find the connections everywhere. READ. First, remember 9/11? Who were they? Mostly Saudi nationals. The Bush family has long had business dealings wih the royal family and the Bin Ladens. The Bin Ladens (not just Osama) have close ties to terrorists. But the administration let 'em fly on out of here just after the WTC fell. That's not just Michael Moore talking - that's a fact: READ the actual flight list on http://www.houseofbush.com/files.php Bush continues to hug, kiss and hold hands with the Saudis and Bin Ladens. How about all the private companies, espeically Halliburton? (Cheney, the CEO until he ran as VP, doesn't profit for now, but the no-bid contract awarded them in Iraq is a typical example of the Bush admin's cronyism and will surely be rewarded when Cheney is no longer VP.) Halliburton has been stealing our tax dollars to line their already fat pockets. A recent audit by the Defense Contract Audit Agency said Halliburton could not document 42 percent of a $4 billion invoice submitted to the Pentagon. Much of the $1.8 billion that lacked documentation was for subcontractors who helped feed U.S. troops -- the area in which Blackwater was working. While the Bush admin may be scum bags, they're not entirely stupid - there is no direct stream of cash flowing into the Whitehouse from Iraq. It's the political backscratching. And it continues in a cycle of corporations feeding money into mostly Republican's campaigns, funding their golf trips and crap. In turn, Republicans put forward the bills and approve the contracts that help those corporations (rather than the majority of AMERICAN CITIZENS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SERVE) and when those politicians retire, they are welcomed with open arms by the same corporations. Certainly, this happens with Democrats too - when they have power that somebody would like to buy, but the majority of this crap occurs with Republicans. Need some PROOF? - Arms Industry PAC's Contributions go to Bush over Kerry, receiving $766,355 and $399,000 respectively. - Contracts to the PentagonÂ’s top ten contractors jumped from $46 billion in 2001 to $80 billion in 2003, an increase of nearly 75% -When the Bush administration first took office, it appointed 32 executives, paid consultants, or major shareholders of weapons contractors to top policymaking positions in the Pentagon, the National Security Council, the Department of Energy (involved in nuclear weapons development), and the State Department. Since that time, the "revolving door" has continued to spin, including a high profile scandal in which Air Force procurement official Darleen Druyun pled guilty to criminal charges for negotiating for a position at Boeing while simultaneously negotiating with the company on the terms of a controversial scheme to lease 100 more Boeing 767 airliners for modification and use as aerial refueling tankers. Another controversial move involved Pentagon acquisition chief Edward "Pete" AldridgeÂ’s decision to move straight from Donald RumsfeldÂ’s Pentagon to a position on the board of Lockheed Martin. -Lockheed Martin received an astounding $21.9 billion in Pentagon contracts in 2003, a $4.9 billion increase from 2002, and $7.2 billion increase from 2001. To put this in perspective, Lockheed's increase in contracts for 2003 was more than Halliburton's total Pentagon contracts for the year. Lockheed reported a 41% rise in profits as arms spending continues to rise around the world. So, unless you are one of these guys getting rich off the war or a politician setting yourself up for a lifetime of high salaries and perks at the expense of the vast majority of Americans, I can't find a reason why you would stand up for the Neo-Con Death Cult. And before you make your attempt at being a jerk like Rush or O'Reiley with a personal attack, I have a husband and a family and I am doing this on a Saturday night because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS BEING USED TO FIGHT THIS ILLEGAL WAR. THEY SHOULDN'T BE DYING FOR THIS SHAM. That's what a TRUE PATRIOT does.

Posted by: The Thinking 48% at September 24, 2005 11:40 PM (eg86J)

26 ummmmm. ME ME ME what about me I know Math never was considered fun or interesting but really I think we should we have spent 70,000 per Iraqi family so far and they still keep trying to kill us. I don't think we should spend anymore there unless they begin to act nicer to us.

Posted by: john Ryan at September 25, 2005 12:38 AM (ads7K)

27 "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." -- John Quincy Adams (1767-184 , 6th US President The facts are there for the reading. It is a matter of being careful where you get your facts. You will not get facts from Salon.com, Michael Moore, mainstream media, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, you will get pieces of facts, but mostly opinion. Be skeptical. As for Cindy Sheehan. I have read through the Code Pink website (one of Cindy's main support groups) and one thing that struck me is that they say they support the troops, yet the top banner slogan they suggest is "Mothers don't let your babies grow up to be killers." That doesn't sound very supportive of the troops. The protesting they do outside Walter Reed Army Hospital is not supportive either. It is only demoralizing and demeaning for the soldiers recovering there. I will also admit that I do not like the liberal point of view and often feel that I am getting whiplash from the the changes they make in their arguments. I do not claim that Bush is perfect, no one is, but I certainly trust him more than what I've seen, read, and researched about the liberals.

Posted by: Anna at September 25, 2005 12:53 AM (nVvoC)

28 THANOS35 - Clinton? Moore? Kerry? Tolken characters? Where did that come from? Wow. That had nothing to do with my post but...whatever floats your boat. I don't believe that Cindy Sheehan is trying to overthrow the Government or install a dictatorship. I think she is a mother, who knew her son, and is demanding answers as to why he died. You or I cannot know her true motives unless we are mind readers or something. But that wasn't the point of my post in the first place. I don't agree with your reasoning but I understand your reason for wanting to commit an act of violence against her. But trying to justify it by saying it isn't as bad as bomb-strapped children is ridiculous. Violence against another human being is still wrong. I don't believe that you want to "smack" her to teach her anything. I believe your motive is simply anger and vengeance. If I am wrong then I apologize. As a Christian I believe that vegeance only belongs to God because vengeance blackens the heart. I don't feel any primal need to exact revenge on anyone, especially for their words. Sure, I may feel some anger and even dwell on it for a short time, that's my own issue, but I know that Gods love and wisdom is far stronger than any words spoken against me or my loved ones. So the asnwer to your question is, No. I would not "tear that person...a new ass." As for all the other stuff (that had nothing to do with my post) infidelity, corruption, name-calling, self-righteousness, etc has been going on since the dawn of time in every organization, religion, government, whatever. It doesn't matter what group of people is doing it and for what reason. It's still wrong! In your response addressed to me you made several liberal/leftist references as if to insinuate that I would act in unseemly manners against you. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding that. The fact is I agree with you in some respects. There are people on the left (as well as the right) who would love to force others to shut up. I assure you I am not one of those people. And I don't believe those ideologies represent the vast majority of liberals. I don't believe they represent the vast majority of conservatives either. I have several friends who are very conservative. Guess what. Many of them do not support Bush. It may interest you to know that I am not technically a liberal. The balance of my views puts my in the "moderate" catagory. Some of my views lean left and some lean right. But because I happen to express my views openly, that somehow makes me a liberal. Or as one person, who was trying to insult me, put it, a NeoLib. Apparently he didn't understand what he was saying but I give him credit for trying. Plus it made a great screen print on several of my political t-shirts and I wear the label proudly. So now that we have both gone off the original point I will say this: The 1st Amendment protects all free speech and no one has the right to commit an act of violence against another simply because one doesn't agree with the other. That was my original point (after the point about the pictures, of course) One last thing. If Bill Clinton should have been impeached for anything it should have been for ruining a perfectly good cigar. ;-) Cheers and God Bless

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 25, 2005 12:53 AM (/Qmc1)

29 What do I care that my president lied to the American people? It had to be done in order to go in and get control of the oil fields that were under control of a cruel ruthless dictator. The world is running out of oil and fast so yer goddamn right I want my president to do everything in his power to save my way of life. Without that oil all you would be in a world of hurt! Prices for just about everything would skyrocket. That oil was going to end up being sold to China and Russia, two communist countries with nukes! So it was a good thing we went in there when we did. (Now those bastards will have to fight us for the oil when they start to run out.) The President needed to make a case for war by exaggerating the truth, he couldn't have gained the support without it. I know President Bush was right even if the way he went about it was deceitful. Deceitful but it was justified! When I elect my President, I give him the power to do what he sees is right. That's why I always vote Republican and always will. You see, Liberal commies have controlled everything from the airwaves to literature, pop culture to you name it. This way of thinking has been destroying America. There is 48% of this country still under control and influence of this way of thinking, and they are all wrong! That's why he needed to talk about WMDs and 9-11, in order to get these idiot libs on the right side for once in their goddamn life. We have been in Iraq for over 2 years now and I say we should never leave, ever! Listen, we are winning. We have only lost 1900 soldiers. That's a pretty low number to lose in a war. We have probably killed 100 times that. We are winning! You say they died for oil? I say they died protecting me and my way of life. They died so that I can have affordable clothes, cars, air-conditioning, heating in the winter, food, the power for my house and the stove and the refrigerator, and the computer I'm using right now to post on here! And most importantly, they died so that we can continue to protect me. Yes, so we can produce the bombs and guns and nukes and keep them ready to defend my home! If you give me a choice between sending the army over to spill lots of blood, kill lots of children, and torture the hell out of some prisoners in order to grab some of the cheapest oil in the world or to do nothing as I lose my ability to afford a cheap tank of gas much less a $4 Grande Mocha, I say, let's go to war! Who cares about those damn Iraqis when my lifestyle is on the line. I never knew or cared about a Iraqi kid and I never will.

Posted by: Hell is for Heros at September 25, 2005 06:18 AM (BmtfW)

30 "Contracts to the Pentagons top 10 contracters jumped from $46 billion in 1991 to $86 billion in 1993 an increase of nearly 75%." The "Thinking" 48% Did anything happen in 1991 that might have caused the Pentagon to increase spending? PS: If you are only thinking with 48% of your brain does that make you a half-wit? Just asking.

Posted by: Mr. Burns at September 25, 2005 07:34 AM (B3rIg)

31 Overall military spending 1990: $409.7 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1991: $358.1 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1993: $358.6 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1998: $296.7 billion (in 2002 dollars) 1999: $298.4 billion (in 2002 dollars) 2005: $420.7 billion (in actual 2005 dollars) Where is this money coming from? Certainly not our taxes. We are borrowing this money. Money that goes toward putting people in graves. Money that goes towards stealing natural resources. Money that goes towards destroying this planet. Money that we'll never pay back. Who is anti-american? Who are the traitors? Wake up people!!!!

Posted by: 48% Right at September 25, 2005 07:52 AM (BmtfW)

32 The facts are so contrary to what's been drummed into our heads for our whole lives it's not surprising that few will accept it: The U.S. founded its country through the mass slaughtering and biological warfare against indiginous people, those red-skinned indians, the native americans. The government provided bounties for indian scalps as recently as the late 1800's. The freedom-loving, liberating U.S. has repressed the civil and humanitarian rights of the poor, women, and black people at home throughout its history. Each of these groups have staged mass civil disobediance to earn their rights, as recently as the 1960's. Many groups still don't have reasonable freedoms states have determined are just (e.g. med pot, gay marriage). U.S. foreign policy has been one of dominance and self-interest since the government first used nuclear bombs in the 1940's (killing hundreds of thousands of civilians). Just because hitler's policies were evil, DOES NOT mean the U.S. was good. The U.S. now (and has for some time) spends more on its military than all other countries combined. It has the second largest nuclear stockpile, which is many times greater than other nuclear countries. It is the first country to militarize space. Ask yourself why those planes crashed into U.S. towers of economic might and government symbols on 9/11 rather than a place like Sweden, Switzerland, or Norway. It is not because muslims hate westerners. It is because the American government has been financing massacres on middle-eastern soil and funding the dictators who repress and murder the population for many decades. Ask yourself why the only countries suffering from terrorist attacks have Armies occupying foreign lands. Ask yourself why your country was the first one to pursue military aggression despite widespread international opposition and against the International Law of the U.N. Ask yourself why your country has a pathetic voter turnout, an unspoken boycott where less than 60% of registered voters turn out during any given election (that means less than 50% of eligible voters). Ask yourself why everybody widely admits that national politics are a sham. Ask yourself why the Vice President Dick Cheney's former company got the lucrative contracts for the reconstruction in Iraq, and New Orleans.

Posted by: Anti-American at September 25, 2005 08:26 AM (GyiKu)

33 "Anti-American". The only honest thing in your post is the name you have chosen for yourself.

Posted by: Mr. Burns at September 25, 2005 09:02 AM (B3rIg)

34 Question for all of you war lovers. So there you are in Germany. It's February 28, 1933 and the Reichstag (federal building) has burnt down to the ground. Your Federal Chancellor, Adolf Hitler, of the Nazi party (that you voted for) blames it on the Communists and has all communist party leaders arrested. He uses this "opportunity" to suspend human rights and holds elections on March 21. So who do you vote for? There is no internet and no alternative news source to help you out. Do you go for the party you voted for because blind allegiance is the only thing you know, or do you not turn away from the horrible truth stand up for justice by voting against the Nazis? Blind patriotism and party allegiance vs. the truth. That's your choice. If you refuse to see the parallels between the Reichstag and 9-11, and you continue to blindly support a warmonger President and a war that has killed over 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians, then you are no better than those who voted for the Nazi party.

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 09:14 AM (BmtfW)

35 I see the hen is wearing her T-Shirt with her own footprint on it the 70s chicken footprint and who wants to lsten to her mindless clucking

Posted by: sandpiper at September 25, 2005 09:21 AM (u2whF)

36 Sean, we know that Sheehan's group wasn't the only one there. The point you missed was that the media portrayed it as solely an "anit-war" protest. They were very careful to leave out much commentary to the contrary. Read some of the newspapers and look at their carefully cropped photos to see that. The pictures we see on the net are what told the truth. The point is that Sheehan's group, whatever their cause may be, does not seem to be troubled by the fact that they share a stage with anyone as long as it gives the appearance of their numbers being greater than they are.

Posted by: Oyster at September 25, 2005 09:28 AM (YudAC)

37 I donÂ’t know, IÂ’m thinking a more accurate analogy would involve the Sudetenland, Munich or the Reinland. Sad to say to the left, the job is far from finished. Take Iran for instance. Is letting Iran become a nuclear power really part of the agenda of the left? A little backbone now may save millions of lives later. Try to show some courage instead of giving in to every tyrant who joins you is anti Bush rant Peace be with you, but never at the cost of freedom.

Posted by: Brad at September 25, 2005 09:40 AM (6mUkl)

38 Damn, Rita knocked my power off for 24 hours, and I have to come back here to a sewage of DU'ers and Indymedia. DSM looks like a mental giant compared to some of the dumn butts commenting on this thread. Go back to the swamps, trolls!

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 09:52 AM (rUyw4)

39 Peace be unto you, WTF are you talking about? You are either one of those jihadi-wanna-bes or just a plain fool. Which is it?

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 09:57 AM (rUyw4)

40 Sean, What denomination of Christian are you? That would help many of us understand where you are coming from. I have an idea, but will wait for a response.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 10:00 AM (rUyw4)

41 Anti-American -- So you've read Howard Zinn and listen to Democracy Now! Good for you! I'll only point out one contradiction in your post because I've seen it elsewhere on the left. As you point out, equal rights have been extended throughout American history. That's a good thing. Now why don't YOU ASK YOURSELF what sort of rights women, gays, Jews, Christians, etc. have in the Middle East in the 21st century? Any honest answer to this question will force reasonable lefties to make a value judgment, and I'm guessing that all of them would rather be living in the good ole' US of A. Peace be with you -- You're serious?! Any comparison of Bush to Hitler is ridiculous. Your very existence and freedom is enough to prove that. Good grief. Do I really have to point this out? Hell is for Heros -- I want you on my side if the proverbial shit ever hits the fan, but don't you think that there are also other ways to spend billions of dollars to protect the American way of life? We need oil and political stability in the Middle East in the short-term, but the US Department of Energy predicts that demand for oil will significantly outpace supply by 2050. We need other cheap energy sources. Why not spend money researching alternative energy sources, better conservation methods, etc? What makes this country great is its pragmatism and innovation?

Posted by: Michael at September 25, 2005 10:21 AM (RfAGt)

42 your an idiot

Posted by: BUSH at September 25, 2005 10:21 AM (rSmAM)

43 It's not surprising to see these types of comments on a right wing rag, but still frustrating all the same. No cover up? No conspiracy? It's no secret that Bush is in bed with Saudi Arabia. He just lifted sanctions against them... THIS WEEK. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/21/AR2005092102260.html There's a link for you to enjoy. Bushco is laughing all the way to the bank while you, me, and every other honest American struggles to pay for gas and deal with hurricane relief. Halliburton is in utter glee over the hurricane destruction they will be "cleaning up," and if you don't see these things you are utterly blind. I really do understand, however, people who disagree with Cindy. This is a free country. What I do not understand is your blank, cold, hatred for her. She is an AMERICAN engaged in peaceful protest on American soil, and you people hate her guts with every fiber of your being. Who, exactly, would Jesus hate? Who would Jesus want you to punch in the face? Sincerely, Liberty

Posted by: Liberty at September 25, 2005 10:22 AM (sd1Mp)

44 Brad, it looks like you bought into all the right wing propaganda. Why do you think Iran wants nukes? They have invading forces on both sides of them! And why would they have ever pursued nuclear weapons in the first place? Do you know the history of what the U.S. has done to them? Ever heard of the Shah of Iran? American puppet dictators have been killing off the people of Iran for years before americans even knew what Iran was. So what you are saying is that we are right to go into Iraq, kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and leave the country in ruins (it will never recover by the way) to show backbone against Iran who don't even have nukes yet? Why didn't we negotiate with any of these countries like we did with North Korea? Do you believe that North Korea will ever really give up ALL their nukes now that they have them? Have their nukes taken away any of your freedom lately? You are just like the scared people of Nazi Germany, blindly following their dictator into war because he says there is NO OTHER WAY. There is always another way, fool.

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 10:33 AM (BmtfW)

45 Love Liberty, "what I don't understand is your blank, cold, hatred for her". Just so you will know, it's the same feeling you have for Bush. Now you understand, don't you.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 10:39 AM (rUyw4)

46 Peace be unto you, You are either a jihadi wanna-be or an ally. It is a great stratagy to divide the US on this war against radical Islam. You come here(the West) and use the freedoms we provide to all people with the intent to destroy us. The useful idiots on the Left and their allies in the MSM are a great gift to you, I know, but remember that many of us here in the US see through all this propaganda. I realize that the war in Iraq, no matter how it turns, will only be the first battle between Civiliztion and those who want to return to the Dark Ages. I honestly think that most people in the World will finally see what radical Islam will mean for the World, just like the Prime Minister of Thailand. As for the useful idiots on the Left, you need to go read about the war going on in the south of Thailand, and if that's what you want in the West, then continue on the path you've chosen.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 10:57 AM (rUyw4)

47 This would be much more emotionally satisfying if it were an actual brawl.

Posted by: Michael at September 25, 2005 11:14 AM (RfAGt)

48 I believe the Sheehan bitch is actually glad her son died in Iraq. Worth it to her. Now that her husband has left her dumb traitorous ass I wonder who she is screwing now. The picture will give you a hint. I mean, who else would sink that low?

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2005 11:34 AM (jwCcw)

49 jesusland joe has hit the nail right on the head....peace be with you knows nothing about the so called Religion of Peace and knows absolutely nothing about how to wage war....first off peace, Islam is at this moment waging more than a dozen agrresive wars of expansion all over the world....and the US is where???....Iraq and Afghanistan...thats only TWO...the US went in to do what???...lemme see, we FREED 25 MILLION OPPRRESED people in Afghanistan from the ISLAMIC Taliban...in Iraq we have deposed a man who brutally murdered and tortured millions of his own people and in the process gave the Iraqi people the first chance in decades to decide their own fate ...oops almost forgot that Afghanistan also elected its own goverment as well....gee, has Iran done anything like that???...nope, all i see are the Islamic Mullahs in control oppress the Iranian people even more just so they{the Mullahs}can try to keep the reins of power and oppresion in their hands...but of course people like peace and all the other handwringers, hippies, leftists and liberals NEVER EVER say anything about that...NOT A PEEP...and they never say anything about how ISLAM MURDERS people by the dozens every single day...honor killings,palistian christians burned out of thier homes,Isralies rocket attacked as soon as they give up the Gaza strip to the Pali Islamic terrorist groups...it goes on and on....Thailand is finally going to put a stop to these Islamic idiots who are trying to destroy an ancient culture just so they can forcefully impose a bloody murderous cult that worships a moon god represented by a friggin ROCK in Mecca...even the break away part of Somalia, Somaliand has decided to kick out any ISLAMIC cleric who does not have legitimate business in that country and i cheer that..its about time the world woke up to what Islam is really about...blood, misery, death, rape,abuse of women,abuse of children, and the worship of both a phedophile prophet and his pagan, evil god that turns its followers into robotic murderes

Posted by: THANOS35 at September 25, 2005 11:35 AM (FMsU7)

50 Peace be with you. What a fucking idiot you are.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2005 11:37 AM (jwCcw)

51 They anti war sillies here are right you can't win when half of your population are traitors. The idea that I love the war offends me. I hate it. What I hate even more is beaheadings living under a global calliphate. Women treated as property. Have ya'll looked at what these people really fight for it ain't yankee doodle dandy.

Posted by: Howie at September 25, 2005 11:40 AM (D3+20)

52 jesusland joe and everyone else. All I'm saying is give peace and negotiation a chance. Did we do that in Iraq? No we didn't. The most powerful country on the planet with the smartest most gifted people in the world could only resort to war. Look at the lives we have taken, look at the families we have killed, look at the people we have tortured. The majority of those people have nothing to do with radical Islam and you know it. Look at what you all are saying. If you march for peace you are a traitor, if you align yourself with killing then you are righteous. How blind are you! jesusland joe, I am sure you are not a Christian, how could you be when you support the killing of any human being for any reason. I am a Christian and I know the Bible very well. Can you quote me any passage from the New Testament that would lead you to believe that killing for any reason is justified? Do you know why God's commandment "Thou shall not kill" applies to us in this war? In all wars there are casualties. That means innocent human lives being snuffed out. These are souls that were given life by God in order to have a chance to find God. This is why we are ALL given life, to find God so we may live in eternity with the Creator. When you go to war, more innocent humans are killed than actual enemies soldiers/combatants, agreed? Millions were killed in Vietnam and now tens of thousands, so far, have been killed in Iraq. These innocents are souls who will never have a chance to find God. Doesn't that bother you? Or do you think that God values your soul over the soul of an Iraqi child? If you do, then you are lost my friend. I can't believe what this country has come to. People here are hating a woman who is protesting a war and praying for peace. Peace, for God sake! Not death, not war, not murder, not evil. If you are a Christian, think about why you are a Christian, what does a Christian stand for? What does it mean to be a follower of Christ? Are you so ready to hate someone who calls out for peace? Jesus, the prince of peace, came to do 2 things for us. The first was to die on the cross for our sins so that we too may live on after we die. The second was to show us how we must act as Christians in order to have our sins forgiven so we man join Jesus after death. And if you are not a Christian, why do put so little value on life and the truth? So you can get richer? So you can "win"? So you can hate? It's sad. Let me leave you with a very nice passage. They are the words of God and are meant to teach us something. Please read your Bible everyday and worship only God and not a President who took us to war for oil. "Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV) Also please read: JOHN 8

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 12:30 PM (BmtfW)

53 t

Posted by: Oyster at September 25, 2005 01:01 PM (YudAC)

54 WTF? the first letter of the _lph_bet is question_ble content?

Posted by: HoldYerNose at September 25, 2005 01:03 PM (YudAC)

55 I find it ámusing when "Christiáns" refer to the New Testement, only for reference. I think it wás á mán cálled Jesus who sáid he didn't come to do áwáy with the láw, but to forfill it. You'd álmost thing thát God himself hád never sent his own ármies ágáinst his enemies, or thát God hád not decided to wipe out the world/cities/people whom were ágáinst him. Às you bring the subject up, áre you then with Cindy with her hátred for Isráel, I believe God cálled them his chosen, or do you just insert religion when it's áppropriáte to your own árgument?

Posted by: dave at September 25, 2005 02:43 PM (CcXvt)

56 Peace be unto you: Would you please answer my question? What demonination of Christian are you, if you truly are a Christian? The commandment you speak of is translated from the Greek, Thou shalt not commit murder. Big difference from what you said. Again, I doubt whether you are a Christian. You support radical Islamism, which I find difficult to do. No matter, you allege that I supported the invasion of Iraq, which I did not. I was against it, but now that we are there, and every jihadist from around the World is descending on Iraq to kill Americans, can you not see that a surrender to radical Islam in Iraq will unleash these people on the World. Look what is going on in Thailand right now. Do you honestly think these people will ever stop? There goal is to reinstate the Caliphate. Do you have any idea what this will mean? Do you have a clue? Friend, these people want to return us to the Dark Ages. Read something that they say besides what Al-Jezeera or CNN say. Look at the Sudan and Thailand if you want to see where radical Islam wants us to go. Ask the Muslims if the Koran gives you any rights in a Muslim land. Look at Indonesia, and tell me if this is what you want. I am telling you that I would fight to the death to stop radical Islam. I have three children, one of who is in the military, and I do not want them to live in the Dark Ages under the power of the Caliphate. And I don't want that for you either.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 02:45 PM (rUyw4)

57 Is Jesse doin Cindy?

Posted by: Eye Want at September 25, 2005 05:15 PM (H1rTt)

58 I'm back, and I'm ready to fisk. I'll start with the last one first. Quothe "peace be with you" "jesusland joe and everyone else. All I'm saying is give peace and negotiation a chance." We tried that several times in several instances, but apparently for gutless, simpering cowards, we should wait until there is no place left to bury the corpses before we act like men and do something. "Did we do that in Iraq? No we didn't." Yes we did you liar. We tried for over a decade to get Saddam to straighten up, but it was LIBERALS who constantly undermined our efforts to force him to the bargaining table. "The most powerful country on the planet with the smartest most gifted people in the world could only resort to war." No, the most murderous, tyrannical dictator with the most repressed people in the Middle East could only resort to war. Get your facts straight moron. I'm sorry, what am I saying? Facts are poison to libtards. "Look at the lives we have taken, look at the families we have killed, look at the people we have tortured." Yeah, it would be so much better if they were Americans who were dead and tortured, wouldn't it? And you wonder why we hate liberals so much. "The majority of those people have nothing to do with radical Islam and you know it." The Iraq war wasn't about radical islam you lying libtard, it was about SADDAM HUSSEIN'S WEAPONS PROGRAMS, idiot. Afghanistan was about radical islam, and that country is coming along nicely into the 21st century, though if you traitors to humanity had your way, the taliban would still be executing girls for going outside their homes without a male escort. "Look at what you all are saying. If you march for peace you are a traitor, if you align yourself with killing then you are righteous." No, dumbass, if you support an enemy dictator, you are a traitor. People like you marched for peace with Hitler. "How blind are you!" How stupid are you? "jesusland joe, I am sure you are not a Christian, how could you be when you support the killing of any human being for any reason." He doesn't claim to be a Christian, he only lives in jesusland, meaning the Bible Belt. It's called wordplay, you see... oh never mind. Look, something shiny! ----> * "I am a Christian and I know the Bible very well." Yet you still hate your country. Who says all Christians are Republicans? Some are traitors. "Can you quote me any passage from the New Testament that would lead you to believe that killing for any reason is justified?" Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. This means that whatever is in the OT still goes, including all the smiting and such. Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. OH SNAP! JC wasn't all warm-N-fuzzy after all was he? It seems he had a more serious side. "Do you know why God's commandment "Thou shall not kill" applies to us in this war?" Actually in the original Hebrew, it's not "kill", but "murder", meaning something entirely different. Apparently you DON'T know the Bible too well, do you? "In all wars there are casualties." BEHOLD! This is the only honest, factual statement in this whole post. "That means innocent human lives being snuffed out." Unfortunately, this is often true, but it mainly means killing people who want to kill you, including inhuman monsters like Hitler and Saddam, but then, you see to like them well enough, so maybe the just needed a hug. The fact is that there are far fewer innocent casualties in this war than in any war of the last century, and the truth is that most civilian casualties are caused by your friends, the terrorists. "These are souls that were given life by God in order to have a chance to find God." Nah, gotta call BS on you there. We are just biological reproduction machines, and our purpose it to reproduce and kill one another. It's fun being an atheist, because I don't have to twist logic to make a point. "This is why we are ALL given life, to find God so we may live in eternity with the Creator." And I though it was just because my mom and dad had the hots for one another. Go figure! "When you go to war, more innocent humans are killed than actual enemies soldiers/combatants, agreed?" No, not agree, moron. I have been to war, and let me tell you, people who die in combat far outnumber those who die because of combat. But then, that's an easily verifiable fact, which means that you want nothing to do with it. "Millions were killed in Vietnam" Approximately one million Vietnamese died during the American war there. Many were civilians, but most were combatants, and all were enemies. That's just how war works. "...and now tens of thousands, so far, have been killed in Iraq." What is your source for that estimate? Lancet and other various propaganda sources have tried to place it anywhere from one hundred thousand to almost a million. I know it's been rough on those who try to fight, and civilians have died, but to just use a number like "tens of thousands" is dishonest, but then, we expect no less from leftards. "These innocents are souls who will never have a chance to find God." So sweet, so happy, so clueless. Any one of them would gladly slit your throat, and I would gladly hand them the knife. "Doesn't that bother you?" Nope, it's kinda pointless to be bothered by something that you have no control over, but that could have been avoided easily if the people it's happening to had done something to prevent it. "Or do you think that God values your soul over the soul of an Iraqi child?" Or maybe we value our children over theirs, and would rather not see them die in a nuclear, chemical, or biological attack. "If you do, then you are lost my friend." Or maybe if you think that moral eqivalency is okay, you're an idiot moonbat leftard who doesn't mind that fact that murderous dictators and religious fanatics want to kill us, and don't care how many innocents die. "I can't believe what this country has come to." Me neither, people like you used to be shot, and now we're letting you run around free. That's just beyond the pale for me. "People here are hating a woman who is protesting a war and praying for peace." You mean propaganda whoring. I wonder when her book's coming out? "Peace, for God sake!" "Those who cry "Appease! Appease!", are hanged by those they tried to please." And fittingly so. "Not death, not war, not murder, not evil." Tell that to your buddies the mullahs, Kim Il, and Osama. "If you are a Christian, think about why you are a Christian, what does a Christian stand for?" Well I know that Baptists won't have sex standing up because they're afraid it might lead to dancing, but other than that, the other denominations are all over the place. You sound like a UCC sheep to me. "What does it mean to be a follower of Christ?" I liked the parts about the sword, and the Laws. "Are you so ready to hate someone who calls out for peace?" I'm ready to hate traitors and those who would sell us into slavery for the sake of peace. They're called cowards. "Jesus, the prince of peace, came to do 2 things for us." Chase out the moneylenders and bring a sword? "The first was to die on the cross for our sins so that we too may live on after we die." That's church doctrine, but I still like the sword part. "The second was to show us how we must act as Christians in order to have our sins forgiven so we man join Jesus after death." He whipped the moneylenders and said "render unto Caesar..." etc. "And if you are not a Christian, why do put so little value on life and the truth?" I put more value on my life than almost anyone elses, but I'm willing to risk it for others. What have you done for anyone else besides preach peace, love, and free drugs? "So you can get richer? So you can "win"?" Which are better than getting poorer and losing, which is what you and your libtard friends want to see happen to Americans. Fuck you. "So you can hate?" I hate you. "It's sad." Actually it makes me happy, because the ability to hate stupidity, cowardice, and evil shows that I'm a sane, healthy citizen, loyal to my country and humanity, and the ideals upon which Western civilization is founded, but you can't understand that, can you? "Let me leave you with a very nice passage. They are the words of God and are meant to teach us something. Please read your Bible everyday and worship only God and not a President who took us to war for oil." So, what's your favorite flavor of Kool-Aid? "Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV) You have the uncanny ability to choose a passage that contributes exactly NOTHING to the topic. Also please read: JOHN 8 Yeah that'd be great if we were talking about stoning a whore, but war is another matter and isn't about judging someone's righteousness, but about defending against a threat. Besides, if Jesus came to fulfill the law, that means that all the smiting of Israel's enemies in the OT was kosher, so your argument is moot. If you want wisdom, read Machiavelli's "The Prince", but then, wisdom is the last things loony moonbats want, so I know you won't.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at September 25, 2005 05:50 PM (0yYS2)

59 Well, Eye Want, I know he would if he had the chance. Jesse Jackson claims to be a pastor, but he is not. I'm not judging him, but the Bible clearly says that you can see a man by looking at the fruit he bears. Jesse Jackson is nothing but a race hustler and a fraud, and gets money to support his lavish lifestyle through intimidation. He uses threats of boycotts, etc. to get companies to give money to his many organizations. I don't understand why people are scared of this man.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 05:54 PM (rUyw4)

60 PBWY, What part of the Bible tells you to leave a helpless population to the mercy of the scum of the Middle East? We now have something in Iraq that most liberals do not understand, ..A responsibility. There is no morning after pill or abortion clinic to visit to make this war go away. We have a country of 50 million people at the mercy of every murdering Jihadist in the Middle East. Your going to have to suck it up and do something that the teachers at “Feel Good Middle School” told you didn’t matter.... You’re going to have to win. Stop thinking about your self and start thinking about our responsibility. How can we help the people of Iraq keep a fragile democracy alive. How can we defeat a ruthless enemy who would kill 32 innocent children with a bomb so they can also kill Iraqi men applying for jobs? Like it or not, we are in Iraq. You cant just put your head under the pillow and make it go away. Why don’t you join the team and help us win this war? Certainly our vision for Iraq is preferable to what you would leave these people with by running away.

Posted by: Brad at September 25, 2005 08:19 PM (6mUkl)

61 Jesusland Joe, Denomination? I guess I never thought about joining a denomination. I've been to many churches, Christian and non-Christian and I have determined that I don't necessarily fit into any set of church doctrine or dogma. The reason for this is simple. As I grow older my understaninding of God and the Bible changes so I don't feel I can hold myself to any specific religion. I am a Christian who believes that God, the Father, is the Creator of all things. That he sent his only begotten Son, Jesus, to die for the sins of all mankind and that He will return one day to deliver us up into his Kingdom. The Nicene Creed pretty much sums it up for most Christians. http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm If I had said Catholic, Methodist, AG, Four Square, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. none of those would have really helped you to understand where I was personally coming from. I am one individual and no one does my thinking for me. I understand that a great many people simply follow what the preacher says. If that works for them then so be it. That isn't me. My relationship with God, Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim (God has many names) is between He and I and not with any denomination. The only way to understand where I am coming from is to know me. Not my "religion" becasue I have none. I hope that helps you to understand me a little better. God Bless P.S. If you enjoy reading about religion and politics then I recommend "Gods Politics" by Jim Wallis, Chief Editor of Sojourners Magazine (www.sojo.net).

Posted by: Sean Alexandre at September 25, 2005 09:09 PM (/Qmc1)

62 Brad, That makes sense to most people, however this is mostly the same people that believe that abandoning the people of South Vietnam, to "re-education" camps, slave labor, poverty and genocide was a victory for their movement. Now they want the same for the people of Iraq.

Posted by: dave at September 25, 2005 09:15 PM (CcXvt)

63 Sean: I didn't ask you your faith to condemn you. But knowing your domination helps me to understand you better. I did not want to attack you personally. Just curious.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 25, 2005 09:56 PM (rUyw4)

64 jesusland joe, just how do I support radical Islam? Do I support radical Islam because I do not support a wars that massacre innocents? There is no arguing with you. You are only going to believe what you want to believe, whatever you have read on your right-wing news websites and from the company you keep. If you were against this war when it started, why are you on a right-wing blog? Why be among the people who took us to war, lied, and created this horrible situation we are faced with now? Don't give me any, we were attacked bull. Iraq didn't attack us, there were no ties to 9-11, there were no WMDs. But now there are dead innocent men, women, and children. And there are thousands of them. Blood is on all our hands. "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:3-14) Also please read: Luke 9:56 You can spend your life fighting wars but you will never change God's plan. The end is coming soon. Are you so righteous and pure that you now have authority over God's law and commandments? "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself." (Matthew 6:33,34) By the way, the "Hell is for heros" post, that was me. I wrote that radically racist and hateful message to see who on here would take a stand against it. Guess what? NO ONE DID!! But you all cursed the anti-war protesters and cursed me, even when I quote the Bible. You call yourself Christians, yet you allow speech like that to go unchallenged and you continue posting on this site. You call yourself Christians, yet you curse down those who speak of peace. You call yourself Christians, yet you use the word of God to justify war, murder, and torture. Take a good hard look at yourself before you start dictating that we should all be like you and go marching off to war. And if you are not a Christian but still support hate speech and cannot see how evil this war is and that we all have the right to protest it if we want, I have one question for you. What happened to you in your life to make you so hateful?

Posted by: peace be with you at September 25, 2005 11:58 PM (6VX9y)

65 Liberty: I don't hate Sheehan. I just think she's gone off the deep end and many people give her far too much credit. If she had only stuck to the matter at hand, it might be different, but she goes off on tangents and spouts some pretty hateful language about things that have little to do with her base cause. Those who support her ignore these things and when someone else brings it up as the basis for their lack of support for her they get ridiculed and bombarded with the same hateful rhetoric she has used herself. It only escalates from there. She became a tool of some of the most radical people in the country. She sold her soul to them. And I feel sorry for her because there are many who took advantage of her mental state and made her worse off than she was. And they don't care for her as much as they do for their causes. They'll toss her when she no longer serves their purpose. Maybe then she'll get the help she needs. She needs psychiatric help for herself as an individual so she can live a normal life. When she was joined by Code Pink I knew things were going to get out of hand. Then there was the father bigot himself, Jesse Jackson. And Michael Moore, and the list goes on. She has her own PR firm, makeup girl and strategists. A lot of people are making a lot of money off her. They're not working for free. I think it's kind of hypocritical when they speak of corporate greed, yet, they use the same corporate system to badger others. I can respectfully disagree with those who have well reasoned arguments. I find it very hard to extend respect to those who show none for me and commit the same transgressions they accuse others of.

Posted by: Oyster at September 26, 2005 07:31 AM (YudAC)

66 Peace be unto you: You're rhetoric belies your name. As for the Hell is for Heroes post, I knew it to be either a crackpot or a stealh post. We get those here all the time. We are very good at recognizing trolls, and no true conservative would use the terminology in that post. You set up a straw man, and then you judge someone based on whether they condemned the straw man. You Sir, are a whited wall, and I'm sure someone as familiar with the scriptures as you are knows what that means. I explained why I think we have to stay the course in Iraq. Did you not read my post? Are you proposing that we just pull our troops without any concern for the Shia? What will happen to them if the minority Sunni get control? What has happened to them in the past? The Kurds, do we leave them to the mercy of the Baathists? Do we turn our heads while poison gas is sprayed on them, including women and children? Again, I was opposed to the war, but realize now we can not just leave. Noboby I know wants to stay in Iraq any longer than necessary. I have a son in the National Guard, do you think I want this war to last?

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 09:32 AM (rUyw4)

67 Peace be unto you, What redneck named Hell is for Heros would drink a $4 Grande Mocha? You gave yourself away there, dude. After reading that screed again, I just laughed at such a pitiful attempt to be a conservative. You really need to get off those Lefty sites. Your mind is turning to mush. Are you saying that George Bush is the anti-Christ?

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 03:05 PM (rUyw4)

68 YOU ARE ALL RED NECKS !!!! FUCK YOUR PRESIDENT, AND FUCK YOU ALL 'CAUSE YOU'RE ALL BLIND ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING OUTSIDE YOUR FUCKING U S of A.

Posted by: phaasm at September 26, 2005 03:40 PM (r+shF)

69 You bet I'm a red neck how about I delete your profane sorry ass. How about it guys. Phassass

Posted by: Howie at September 26, 2005 04:03 PM (D3+20)

70 He's one of those little jihadi boys from Canada. For some reason they think they can intimidate over the internet. It makes them feel better when they utter their little screeds.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 04:36 PM (rUyw4)

71 I'm a veteran and I find that most of the comments I've read here that are in support of Bush and the "war" in Iraq are based in ignorance. Conservatives make comments about all of Clinton's lies when they get defensive, but what did Clinton really lie about? Getting some head? Bush lied about much more in order to get our country into this mess in Iraq just so we could neutralize the biggest threat to Israel in the Middle East. None of the conservative voices here seem to have a problem with Colin Powell being sent to our representatives to sell them this war with a slew of bogus information. Our president claimed Iraq had all kinds of terrible weapons and was preparing to possibly use them against our country. LIES. He also assured us that our government is not in the business of nation building, but that is what we are doing, isn't it? He also stated plainly to all of the world that every measure had been taken to avoid war even though he didn't allow the U.N. inspectors to finish their job before he had my brothers in arms start dropping bombs on Bagdad. There were no smoking guns except our own. I marched in Washington last Saturday, right behind Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Cindy Sheehan in my combat fatigue shirt and hat. Many of the counter-demonstrationers threw insults at me, calling me things like "traitor" and "communist." I AM A PATRIOT AND I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I have served on the frontlines of freedom. My combat boots were dirtied in the soil of North Korea. The people calling me all of those names don't know anything about me, who I am, where I come from or what I stand for. They are only ignorant enough to voice their prejudice toward my point of view in a hateful and disrespectful manner. It saddens me that the general apathy of the American public and it's overall lack of involvement in it's own politics has allowed our democracy to be hijacked by powers that can buy and control our politicians. Our system of government no longer serves it's people properly. It is of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation. Americans need to take back their government from the fascists who have hijacked it. The only way to do this is to get involved politically and force the system to become more than just a two party choice between Coke & Pepsi. People have to pay attention to the issues and voice their concerns to their representatives in the House & Senate. CONSERVATIVES ought to listen to their own arguments and maybe they'll realize how idiotic it sounds when they run out of intelligent counterpoints and just start with the Clinton-bashing and claims that those of us with a different point of view are somehow "un-American." This president, his administration and it's actions have done more damage to our country's reputation and our position in world politics than the next administration could possibly repair in a full 8 years. Get BUSH out of the White House before he does any more damage!!!

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 26, 2005 05:57 PM (6Y5iW)

72 Cindy Sheehan is a publicity whore, traitor, and a terrorist. She definitely belongs in: Bernard Goldberg's 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America. Great Book You liberals need to a take a long look at what it might be like living somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan, be proud of what you have and where you come from.

Posted by: USA#1 at September 26, 2005 06:03 PM (JxTwU)

73 veteran kenny, Did you look around you and see who you were marching with in Washington Saturday? The fact that you marched behind Al Sharpton tells me a lot about you. Do you know what he did in NY when he had a girl accuse the police of smearing feces on her after being raped. It was all a fraud, and Sharpton was an accomplice. Naturally, being in NY, he got off. Are you at all familiar with the Tawana Brawley story? Al Sharpton is nothing but a race hustler. I appreciate your service in Korea. My father served there also, and retired from the Army. My mother's brother was killed in Normandy. My son is in the National Guard at this very moment, so you don't have to tell me anything about service to this country. I totally disagree with many things you said, but do not have the time to comment on all of them, but if you looked around Saturday most of the people you saw were just plain anti-American. They were Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, radical homosexuals(Code Pink), abortionists(NARAL), animal rights activists(PETA), radical environmentalists(ELF), jihadists(many who were not US citizens), radical feminists(NOW), and I could go on and on. The point I'm trying to make is that you will be known by the company you keep. You are not very likely to change anyone's mind or even get a hearing when you hang out with that bunch of radicals and losers.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 26, 2005 07:58 PM (rUyw4)

74 cfgh

Posted by: grg at September 26, 2005 08:11 PM (A8AYI)

75 Why do people, when defending Clinton, always bring up one thing and one thing only; "the blow job". As if that is the only thing he ever did wrong that needs to be defended. I could post a list of some of the goings on of the Clinton Administration here that would curl the socks of those who think he was so great. And they would be simply, unvarnished and verifiable facts. But the list would be far too long for a mere comment. The media didn't talk much about some of these things. "The blow job" was so much more sensational. Kenny, if you're interested in speaking the truth, then admit that it's both parties, not just George Bush. It took far longer than his 5 years in office for things to get to where they are now. If you want to criticize Clinton-bashing, then why do you engage in Bush-bashing as your argument? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Posted by: Oyster at September 26, 2005 08:27 PM (YudAC)

76 You chicken hawks and warmongers aren't JUST stupid. You're cowardly too. You love war, so get out there on the front lines. You belong in the middle of Baghdad, and I'm not talking about inside the Green Zone. Prove you're not just a bunch of lazy couch potatoes whose idea of education is Fox News.

Posted by: John at September 26, 2005 08:32 PM (o1Nea)

77 you say "see the signs?" "get the picture?" "they have an agenda!" do you? because your "side" has signs of their own my friend. Signs in support of the war, and Bush and calling for the opposition to "get in line" are just as offensive as ones calling for "truth" and, god forbid "justice". read your own article with the same citique...the whole thing is a consiracy theory about this movement. and i'm not surprised of course. these people are tired of saying "gosh, something smells fishy about this and that" they've now decided to demand that the source of the smell be unveiled. we as americans, since your proud to be one, have the right to the truth from our representatives. especially when our children are dead. and we dont have the truth. history will bear it out, that much is certain...but without any accountability in for this admin. they will run amock with our rights, freedoms, and our children. sound too grousome? then perhaps you should listen to cindy.

Posted by: Duder at September 26, 2005 08:34 PM (ykeVy)

78 jesusland joe, I've read a great deal of your comments here and expected exactly that sort of reaction from you. I served to protect the freedoms that we all cherish. I saw all of the elements you described at the march, and they were, unfortunately, hijacking a noble and just cause to suit their own desires. It's a free country and they are allowed to do so, but it only serves to detract from the legitimacy of the pursuit of peace. I marched with my love of country and my patriotic pride alongside all of those who were brave enough to get out in the streets of our capital and put their own faces on the cry for what is right and just. Agreeing with any of the groups you mentioned on the issue of Iraq does not mean I agree with or support their primary cause or fundamental ideal, but that we all agree that the Iraqi invasion and occupation is illegal and unjust. Most of the people I marched with were mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, regular people who share similar feelings about the lies and deception our government used to justify the attack on Iraq. The "anti-American" element you describe was at best a fringe element that had to be tolerated because this is, thank God, a free country. I'm curious to hear what you think you know about me just because I stood 15 feet behind a particular person, in this case Al Sharpton, and marched through Washington exercising my rights and voicing my opinion. Your "point," that I will be known by the company I keep, makes my point. People from all walks of life showed up to march in protest; many, like myself, as individual citizens. YOU choose to look at the most extreme elements that surround us and transfer their ideals and values onto all those around them. That is called prejudice. I have found that the people who desire peace are generally genuinely kind, loving people. I have also found that the pro-war group in general draws it's strength from a deep well of hatred and prejudice, qualities that you exhibit time and time again in your postings here. As I witnessed in Washington, they and you tend to revert to name-calling, whether it's "traitor," "communist," "radical," or "loser," none of these applies to me. Rest assured that I do not keep company with "Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, radical homosexuals, abortionists, animal rights activists, radical environmentalists, jihadists, or radical feminists," but I do share the same views against our military occupation of Iraq as all those who marched with me in opposition to our actions "over there." WAKE UP AMERICA AND DEMAND YOUR COUNTRY BACK!

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 26, 2005 09:02 PM (6Y5iW)

79 oyster, In my original posting I did state, "the general apathy of the American public and it's overall lack of involvement in it's own politics has allowed our democracy to be hijacked by powers that can buy and control our politicians. Our system of government no longer serves it's people properly. It is of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation. Americans need to take back their government from the fascists who have hijacked it. The only way to do this is to get involved politically and force the system to become more than just a two party choice between Coke & Pepsi." When you say to me, "Kenny, if you're interested in speaking the truth, then admit that it's both parties, not just George Bush," my reply is that you are correct and I have stated exactly that. These are not partisan comments. Our two party system is severely flawed. You also accused me of "Bush-bashing" as my argument, and I never bashed Bush. I simply made the following factual statements: "Our president claimed Iraq had all kinds of terrible weapons and was preparing to possibly use them against our country. LIES. He also assured us that our government is not in the business of nation building, but that is what we are doing, isn't it? He also stated plainly to all of the world that every measure had been taken to avoid war even though he didn't allow the U.N. inspectors to finish their job before he had my brothers in arms start dropping bombs on Bagdad," and my opinion that "This president, his administration and it's actions have done more damage to our country's reputation and our position in world politics than the next administration could possibly repair in a full 8 years. Get BUSH out of the White House before he does any more damage!!!" I am not defending Clinton, but criticizing President Bush for not being honest with us about something as vitally important as invading another country with our military and occupying it. Can you really try to convince yourself that you were not lied to by your President about the pretenses for war in Iraq? And I guess that's okay with you? The end justifies the means?

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 26, 2005 09:27 PM (6Y5iW)

80 IMPEACH BUSH - ELECT A CHRISTIAN PRESIDENT! I was in Washington on Saturday and words cannot explain how moved I was to witness REAL CHRISTIANS that understood the word of God. Not like the ones that voted for this pawn of the devil based on the two issues that "christians" see as "sins." Matthew 24 speaks of being decieved and our country has been. Real christians know that, "he who is without sin should cast the first stone." All of us are sinners. Real followers of Christ know that we should not vote for Bush, someone that is no stranger to sin, one who continues to sins intentionally, which is blasamy. I loved the sign that said that thou shalt not kill means do not kill people. All of the what would Jesus do signs, and the words in red are what Jesus said. If Bush was just a man, I could understand his inhumane, greedy, devilish acts. The fact the this man claims to be a christian is shameful and has distorted the word christian. To be a christian is to live your life as the best example of Jesus as you can. Bush makes no attempt to live a good christian life. Worst of all Bush has set the worst example possible of christianity with the world watching. How are we to spread the love of Jesus if we bomb people before we can tell them? Over 120,000 INNOCENT civilian Iraqis have been slaughtered by our INNOCENT teenage troops that signed up to find the terrorists, but never got the chance because the Bin Ladens and the Bushs have been friends and bussiness partners for a half a century. This war is unjust, Collin Powell admitted last week there is not one connection between 9-11 and Iraq. Not one terrorist was there when we invaded. The handful of terrorists we have caught have multiplied times a thousand due to our unwanted presence there. BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS. Nowhere in the bible does the Lord say that killers are blessed. It says love your enemies, bless and do not curse, that we are not to judge but to love. It is impossible to do unless you have the Lord in your life. Being a christian is like a muscle, it gets stronger the more you use it. Try sayin God Bless you next time someone curses you in traffic. It seems strange at first, but your heart will feel it. Weapons, bombs, threats of invading countries that have or DO NOT have weapons of mass destruction will not end terrorism. Bush can act as bad as he wants and continue to add feul to the fire,steal feul in the process, but what he is doing will not end terrorism. DIVINE INTERVENTION is our only hope of fighting terrorism. Jesus said to put on your armor of God, walk in the gospel of peace, use your salvation, righteousness, truth, and the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT which is THE WORD OF GOD to fight the enemy. God bless all that read my message and I pray that the Lord will come into your heart and you will allow HIM to be your savior. THEN pray for our country and that God will soften the hearts of our enemies and BELIEVE that God will answer our prayers. Doubt will poison the prayer, BELIEVE and we will defeat the hate that war breeds. One more comment, Palestine has been Palestine for thousands of years, when Jesus was here it was Palestine. We gave the Israelis weapons to kill them and run them out of their homes for the past 50 years. To them we are the terrorists, to them we are not of God. All of the middle east has witnessed it and the terrorism began with it. It began with us and our weapons. We need to look at ourseleves and repent of our sins.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 26, 2005 09:31 PM (Q3RDR)

81 Kenny: Are you and your fellow demonstrators really suggesting we just up and leave?

Posted by: Brad at September 26, 2005 09:34 PM (6mUkl)

82 VETERN KENNY- I am so sorry that you are such a hateful man. You are judging others and claim to love the Lord? You must have had a very hard life. Tell me, how is Cindy going to jail so that she can save our soliders lives unAmerican? You hating on over 100,000 people and calling them all names is not having the holy spirt. It is called hate. If you want to go to heaven you really need to love people. You can not love God and not love people. I will pray that God will soften your heart because obviously you are hurting. I was in the rally and I do not fall into any of the categories you described. I do forgive you though and understand that you have had some tramatic things in your life, give them to God and think what would Jesus do if he was at the rally, would he really hold a pro-war sign? Be honest, it is a big part of being christian.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 26, 2005 09:40 PM (Q3RDR)

83 JESUS JOE> You are no Jesus, Jesus would not be a republican. Is it not harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven? What would Jesus do? Not one thing Bush has done. All of you republicans that claim to know Christ have so much anger and hate and jusitification of killing even without a reason, say that you are pro life then kill countless thousands, everything that contradicts the word of God. LOVE is greater than hate. Calm down and allow yourself to know the Lord. Become a christian if you want to be called one. Read the words in red, it is what Jesus said. Bush may or may not be the anti christ, one thing is for sure, he is no follower of the real Christ, and the devil defenitly has a hold on him. Read Matthew 24 and do not be decieved. God Bless You and may God soften your heart.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 26, 2005 09:56 PM (Q3RDR)

84 Christian Soldier: Help is available. Get help now!!!!!!!

Posted by: greyrooster at September 26, 2005 10:05 PM (6krEN)

85 Ya ever hear these lefty “Christians” denounce the murder of 3500 or so innocent people on 9-11. I’m listening...... If I get a response, it will be Bush's fault.

Posted by: Brad at September 26, 2005 10:20 PM (6mUkl)

86 You christians can make absolutely any subject boring. If you want to talk religion, why don't you go to your church? Your bible is boring to anyone who has the capacity to think. If christians are warmongers, the world doesn't need christians. Colonize the moon or Mars and have your inquisitions, crusades and wars there.

Posted by: John at September 26, 2005 10:25 PM (o1Nea)

87 Off subject: Hey Greyrooster, you need to get the keys to the blog and tell the Hurricane Katrina story first hand. IÂ’m glad to see your OK.

Posted by: Brad at September 26, 2005 10:35 PM (6mUkl)

88 Look how naive and selfdestructing:" Look when only 20% of the people think we can win the war, according to USA Today poll,then we ARE NOT going to win it." yes , if you have so little or no selfcompetance yes , then relay to polls and let those polls drive you into hell and concentration camps of the ennemy. I then compare yourself with the 100-ds of thousands political prisoners (forced labor) inmates in china (incl.Tibet)in force labor camps ,and those victims of the holocaust , and those Nazi warobjectors jews gays,unemployed ,gypsies and retarded that were used,abused (force labor caps) and killed in NAziGermany,Poland,Rumania 1935 -1945 But i am not with you.You fool yourself .You are a self-fooler.Good thing ,This semi-brained Media is not gore -ing our U.S. Guns. The effort is not lost unless too many people like you declare it lost. So get, lost , then. But me and the Bush Admin and the US Military (including f.e. Fmr General Alexander Haigg,Rush Limbaugh,cheney ,Ed Gillespie,Jeb Bush)we ignore polls , we deal with the reality the US might , the US ARSENAL and a course of action that let's us and civilisation survive. Clowns like : Sharpton, Randi rhodes, Cindy, Kennedy,Gore,Kerry,Bill Clinton,Mike maloy ,gl. Robertson etc. can surrender their US PAssports and report in Pakistan Iran Syria Lebanon to any Al Quada recruiting station/agents . Those are traitors , should be shot ,normally. I demonstrate diplomacy , however,I would give them a pass. They need to step aside(neutralized) now the next few years , so we can have a clear ship. To be more exact: If I could , I would maneuver things exactly the way so they come into the line of ennemy -fire first , this would represent a wake-up call for them. You missed the Vietnam -Lesson. Here You continue :" Now let's cut our loses and get out. Does anyone do math anymore ??? 250 billion spent on 25 million Iraqis equals 10,000 EACH !!! Average Iraqi household is just under 7 persons. That is 70,000 dollars per Iraqui household so far. Please tell me how much longer we should stay and at what point the Iraqis will be our friends instead of Osama's friends. " You need more education , when you say "spend $" we dont spent money from your/our pocket , we print the $ as we need them, the potential of how many trillions we can print and issue before we get hurt on this , is practically unlimited as long as we , the USA , can stay Number 1 (number 1 in all 3 respects politically,military and political) we are in a comfortable position.Oil purchases procurement and reffinings not a problem either. Transition to Hydrogen(-gas) Power will not cost a fraction of what people always think it would cost . Go to Google "h2homestations" or "BMW,Verbrennungsmotoren" Hurricain damage recovery , not a problem either. Pres.Reagan said "deficits don't matter". I say on top of him even Tax taxcuts s.security are consumed by the fact that we got the POWER. Thanks to the POWER we can print $ and live and prosper - on. Defending Taiwan, even , is doable. Even confronting a possible and probable Mr Putin is doable. We are the US of A and In Iran Russia and China there is people admiring the USA and its people .They would like to join, rather than get curtailed on their basic rights(life Property honor health) including FREEDOM .Some of them will soon the US Uniform. On the long run , we will come out on top ! We almost did so in 1946 when Winston Churchill made the suggestion , the Allied Forces should continue into china and Russia to govern them. Now we got the 3rd DHjihad facing us . France lost the 2nd one and Algeria is no longer France. Besides that , never forget France 2003 supplied Iraq with GPS jammertransmitters in their active attempt to have Our Operation failed. The great challenge now is, Iraq /Iran and N Korea. Europe and Russia prefer to watch . They allready assume that the first nuke clash is inevitable.Admittively ,a nuke exchange is probably going to take place . China has its complicated/complex plans and we prefer to watch them and prefer to arrange us with them. Back to Iraq. Winable or not winable. My answer is = winable . it is a question of managment. So far, Pres. Mr Bush has done the best job he can do. I could have probably done not much better . In 2003 war protestors said " not in my name" Canada, Germany, France etc. said , not with us . Senator Byrd (Virginia) said NO Turkey said "You are not passing our soil" Spain said after hit by ALquada = No more. Great Britain said after an extremely curious scurmishing (Mini Tank battle against "friendly Police station"), today 26 sept 2005 !!!)NO MORE. IN 2003 The Managment made a decision , Our Survival is at stake (in the long run) besides that we had substantial humanitary REASONS weighed in to. Besides this Nobody would guarantee the absolute reality about WMD at that point and time. US and allied aircrafts have been shot at at a regular basis (2300 times!from the Ground there) The cease fire contract from 1991 was breached in many ways many times. Besides that , we could not locate Bin Laden but we had these Baathists in POWER who had just as much evilwill AND WILL TO KILL civilisations randomly and even if arrangable in siucidmanner like Osama Bin Laden. The ennemy was identified and geographically grabable . there was absolutely a full legitimation to liberate ,compare D-Day 1944.(Osama , SHarping, Randi Rhodes ,Cindy ,Osama,T.Kennedy etc. would use the words invade and occupy in an agressionwar) Sure enough , the USA was highly welcomed as liberators in many parts of iraq especially Kurdistan where not 1 shot was fired in 10 years . Sunnies and Shiited need to fight out their civil war , we can step aside have them play this out, not a problem. Important at the end is the safety of our troops they can maintain (zero casualty) this, if no longer asked to engage in urban warfare .They can be held safe and sound , for many years , compare the decades of the cold war in europe ,compare the decades in japan. Recruiters of the Armed Forces have to be honest and generious.For example If Gay couples can join Tours together ,why should heteros not be allowed the same.This is however not a promotion for gays, i remind.I am just giving them a Pass. We are OK . we are safe . who makes us unsafe is : The liberals within the USA , the djihadists certain high militaries in china with their Submarines N Korea possibly Pakistan with their Submarines we need to keep up the arms race against them and we will be OK . we will get OSAMA. When ? at the latest at the end there. A word about Youth criminality in USA. Parents, stay with Your Kids, don't run after your credit-rating or Your cradit score. Unsupervised kids will affiliate with bad kids and wind up in jail, I will see to it, that a law comes into effect offering this jail term divided into the parents who failed resposibility to a substantial partition . f.e. a jail term 20 Years to an 18 year old can be served to 1/3 by the failing parent. A word about elections 2008 . Prepare now it is about the survival or downfall .Also promote the ring system this means: elect who you want not who you could possibly tolerate. If wars are in progress or imminent to get proscecuted, the opportunity should be used to assess the peoples opinion with specific questions.(a lot smarter than polls ! ) I am an Atheist so i have to close with: The Managment bless America gana romana FLA

Posted by: hu at September 26, 2005 11:00 PM (A8AYI)

89 Imagine there is a war and nobody came ? Mister Bertold Brecht + 1956 had the correct answer: This is better, german re-written by me. “stell Dir vor, es kommt krieg und keiner geht hin dann kommt der krieg zu euch! Wer zu hause bleibt und andere fur seine sache kaempfen laesst , wenn der Kampf beginnt, der muss sich vorsehen: Wer nicht teilgenommen hat am Kampf , muss dann an der Niederlage Teilnehmen . Es ist nicht so ,dass er den Kampf hat vermeiden koennen , in der Tat Hat er sogar dem Feind zu dessen Sieg verholfen. Imagine: war breaks out , and nobody goes there. - Then, You will be sucked in, into this war .The war will arrive to You. Those who then stay at home and let others fight for their cause Will have to share the defeat with them. They were not successful in avoiding war, worse, they caused the Enemy to prevail.

Posted by: hu at September 26, 2005 11:44 PM (A8AYI)

90 Those losers , who wanna lose their driverslicense : Follow Cindy (or Sharptone etc.) lose the ticket failthe citation never pay the fine make yourself unavailable to D.C./ Courtsystem fail to show up

Posted by: hu at September 26, 2005 11:59 PM (A8AYI)

91 I am not american but I pitty you all. left or right, cause it is obvious your goverment is using you. Not that mine is better (I am from Quebec, canada) but at least, even tought it is stealing our money & civil rights, it has not started yet, as far as know, plotting with terrorists to plan attack on it's own territory in order to justify futur wars. the desolating fact is that most of you on the right side don't even see it. At least accept the fact that iraq invasion was done to steal their oil. wathever reason was given by the Bush administration at the time has been proven false by now. And as a politician I also believe it is legitimate to give your friends the contract to clean your mess... at the tax payers expenses of course!!! Cindy might be silly and of course this war will secure oil supply for a few years at the cost of a few unfortunate kids who ended-up on the front line. This brings back the old question: Why do they always send the poor ???

Posted by: No 100 Watts at September 27, 2005 12:48 AM (3pZu3)

92 Hey No 100 Watts, FYI...not too many Americans give one shit what some asshole from Cananda has to say.

Posted by: RC at September 27, 2005 01:31 AM (Ltd4h)

93 Christian Soldier- Please read my postings again. I was responding to what OTHER postings in reply to my original called the protesters and defending them. I am not in any way a hateful man. The categories I described were things that "jesusland joe" tried to pin on my uniform just because people in those categories were also marching. That's sort of like sayin just because there's a wolf in a pack of coyotes that makes him a coyote, isn't it? I myself am a Christian soldier and I apologize if you were offended. I think you just misunderstood what you were reading.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 04:37 AM (6Y5iW)

94 Brad- Some of the protesters advocate just such a move. I DO NOT because, as a veteran, I realize that is implausible. I do take the position that those in power who lied, deceived, and turned to invasion and occupation before taking all measures to avoid war and reach a solution diplomatically must be held responsible for their criminal actions.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 04:43 AM (6Y5iW)

95 Brad- I was in New York assisting however I could on 9-12-2001 and I and any other thinking, breathing compassionate "lefty Chrisitian" would, of course, denounce those resposible for taking so many inocent lives. Instead of name calling it would be more intelligent for you to do some research and see who attacked us and why. All around the world it is well known that the group of terrorists were SAUDI jihadists, and that they attacked us because of our support of ISRAEL. Ignore what you are being spoon-fed by the American media and do some real research into it, and you'll see what I'm saying.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 04:49 AM (6Y5iW)

96 "For the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." Luke 9:56 jesusland joe posted: "The point I'm trying to make is that you will be known by the company you keep. You are not very likely to change anyone's mind or even get a hearing when you hang out with that bunch of radicals and losers." So, if you are supporting: this corrupt administration, a war that has taken the lives of thousands, the torture of children, the turning of our troops into murderers, the theft of billions of dollars from Iraq, and those in an actual PRO-WAR movement, what kind of company are YOU keeping? Let me ask you a question: Who would Satan be protesting, the war or the peacemakers? Beware of what side you are on.

Posted by: peace be with you at September 27, 2005 08:14 AM (BmtfW)

97 Kenny, I support Israel and itÂ’s right to exist. The fact that the enemies of Israel attacked our country does not make me want to withdraw my support. Your posts as well as those of many others here do show a trend. Sheehan and followers are becoming increasingly bold in their anti Israel, anti Semitic remarks. The left chooses to mainstream leaders like Galloway and Sheehan. You have chosen your leadership and it is a joke. I am reading comments from Moonbats from Canada, Europe and the US on this thread. If this is the message of the American left it will continue to drive thinking people to the Conservative camp. Your first casualties should be liberal Jews. How long can they actually stay in bed with the likes of Galloway and Sheehan? Peace Be With You: Your team just killed 5 school teachers yesterday because....well because they could. The withdrawal of our troops would leave this country to the mercy of these murderers. Is that really what you are advocating when you cut and paste Bible verses?

Posted by: Brad at September 27, 2005 08:27 AM (6mUkl)

98 Okay, so the US were never occupied by another country, has never been a dictatorship, never lost a war, has not experienced real hard suffering. I can understand why you have no idea what you are talking about. We Germans are grateful for the invasion 1945, but you can't compare apples and pears (as we say). How can there be any doubt that Bush is a war criminal exactly like Saddam or Osama? When you bomb a country and kill its citizens without any justifcation or any support by the UN, what does that make you then? A liberator, a peace fighter? I can hardly imagine how one could reasonably conclude that. What is really embarassing about all this is the fact that over 50% of Americans voted for Bush in 2004. Kerry would have won 85-15 in ALL of Europe. Maybe you should ask youself sometimes WHY the world has begun to hate the US administration.

Posted by: Turambar at September 27, 2005 10:59 AM (eubFi)

99 Brad Read this little report about YOUR team, then take a look at yourself in the mirror. That is, if you have the guts to do it. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/bbc29fb371b02011e16942345387f497.htm

Posted by: peace be with you at September 27, 2005 11:03 AM (BmtfW)

100 Na, I think IÂ’ll just try and show a virtue the left has never had. Perseverance. Your Peace is just cowardice. We have a responsibility and I canÂ’t abandon it because it the easy way out. Hey Hans, I think youÂ’re starting to get it. We donÂ’t give a damn what your insignificant ungrateful county thinks of us. ItÂ’s time to pull the troops home from somewhere, Germany! You can put the people who work on and around the bases on welfare along with the other 20% of Germany.

Posted by: Brad at September 27, 2005 11:36 AM (3OPZt)

101 Hey, Rusty. You REALLY don't see any connection between the 9-11 tragedy(coup)and the invasion of Iraq? To refuse and deny obvious evidence and absolute fact calls for a substantial suspension of logic. I sure hope you're not a medical doctor.

Posted by: whiteman at September 27, 2005 02:38 PM (IhKs7)

102 veteran kenny. I am sorry I thought it was you that wrote that hateful message. Obviously JOE needs JESUS. Your sincere message prooved that you would not write such hate. TO ALL THAT SUPPORT ISRAEL: Understand that there would be no terrorism now if we would not have given weapons to the Palestinian jews to kill the Palestinians. THEN there became and Isreal for the first time in thousands of years 50 years ago. All the middle east saw how we helped the jews kill innocent Palestians and steal their land. Why do you think that we finally agreed to give them some of the land back? My pastor said that you cannot scare people into religon, you are to love them into it. Something our govenment failed at miserably. We helped the jews go in there and say this is our land because God said so, so leave or we will kill you. THAT IS NOT OF GOD. That is not what Jesus would do. Jews missed the Jesus visit, and do not follow Him, but as a christian country we should. What if the jews came to us and said get out this is our land God gave us or we will kill you. We claim to know God and know that killing and stealing land is not something of God, that is how the muslims feel. My best friend is jewish and she undestand that the Palesinians have been terrorized by the jews for a half a century and we have helped them. Now the middle east has formed this terroist group to turn the tables and terrorize us. An eye for an eye has left our world blind, it is on the christians to pray for divine intervention now to end the terrorizing of all people all around the world.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 27, 2005 02:51 PM (Q3RDR)

103 WHITEMAN- PLEASE TELL ME WHAT CONNECTION DO YOU SEE BETWEEN 9-11 AND IRAQ? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR. PLEASE DO NOT INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE BY USING FOX NEWS AS YOUR SOURCE. COLLIN POWELL, THE MAN THAT SENT OUR TROOPS THERE DID ADMIT LAST WEEK THAT THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO. HE ADMITTED HE WAS WRONG, WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF REFUSE TO HUMBLE YOURSELFS AND FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM, FACE THE TRUTH THAT OUR TROOPS DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE OVER NOTHING. IF THEY DO HAVE TO DIE AT LEAST LET THEM GET BIN LADEN, BUT WITH BUSH PROTECTING HIM AND USING HIS FRIEND OSAMA TO BREED FEAR INTO OUR LIVES OUR TROOPS WILL NEVER GET THE CHANCE. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AT LEAST CHECK IT OUT IF YOU CARE ABOUT OUR COUNTRY AT ALL. DO YOU REMEMBER THE LAST VIDEO TAPE OF OSAMA AIRED ON TV WAS A WEEK BEFORE THE ELECTION? WAKE UP AND FIGHT FOR THE TROOPS THAT SIGNED UP TO FIGHT FOR US! SAVE THEIR LIVES SO THEY CAN SAVE OURS ONE DAY IF WE NEED THEM TO. THEY DESERVE SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT PAWN OF THE DEVIL BUSH SENDING THEM INTO A WAR WHEN BUSH WOULDN'T LAY DOWN HIS LIFE IN NAM. HE WAS BUSY PARTYING AND COULDN'T PASS A PHYSICAL LET ALONE GO TO WAR.

Posted by: Christian Solider at September 27, 2005 03:08 PM (Q3RDR)

104 Peace be with you, My grandmother said: Birds of a feather flock together. My grandmother said: Fools names and fools faces are always seen in public places. Your rhetoric belies your name. Enough said.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:19 PM (rUyw4)

105 Brad- I made no anti-semitic or anti-Israeli remarks. I agree that Israel, of course, has every right to exist. I'm curious to know what leadership you believe I have chosen that is a joke, according to you.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 03:26 PM (6Y5iW)

106 Christian Soldier, Help is available to our beloved US veterans at the nearest Veterans Hospital. Brother, you need it.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:26 PM (rUyw4)

107 Turambar, You need to go and practice up on your Arabic. As soon as our troops come home, your choice will be to convert or go find a goat. On second thought, since you will be a recent convert, you will have to find a goat anyway.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:30 PM (rUyw4)

108 And for the rest of you dumn asses out there, Jesusland signifies a geographic location, not a religion. Rusty, this bunch of trolls are truly the most ignorant I have ever encountered. Banish them back to the asylum at DU and Idymedia.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 03:36 PM (rUyw4)

109 Christian soldier- No sweat. Apology accepted. Joe does obvously need to improve his relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God Bless You. I have traveled far and wide, and spent much of my time in foreign lands connecting with the people and finding out what they're all about. Jesusland Joe and those with similar points of view just don't want to open their eyes and see what citizens of other countries see when they look at the United States, or they just don't care. His statement to "Hans"(a term meant to insult and demean him, by the way)that "We donÂ’t give a damn what your insignificant ungrateful county thinks of us," is a testament to his immoral ignorance and short-sighted way of thinking. I think most Americans are far more compassionate than that, they're just not the people running the country(which I am sure Jesusland Joe is grateful for). Maybe they think we're supposed to rule the world, I don't know. We are all in this thing together, folks, everywhere in the world. We are one people. Can we not live together in peace???

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 03:46 PM (6Y5iW)

110 Jesusland Joe- You need counseling, man. Let go of all that hatred you've got burning inside you. Wherever it came from, whatever wrong was done to you to make you so angry, insulting and disrespectful towards others; go back, forgive it, and learn some compassion.

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 27, 2005 03:58 PM (6Y5iW)

111 Kenny, you told us earlier you marched in Washington last Saturday behind Sheehan. She then would be the leader I refer to. You canÂ’t follow her around lockstep then distance yourself from her views. Also: I was the one who called our ungrateful German friend Hans. He was not doubt eating food and getting shelter from the Marshall Plan aid. His family was kept alive by the Berlin airlift. His freedom was paid for and guaranteed by the US military and taxpayer he hates so much. He was probably some Green party fairy kicking us in the ass the entire time we protected his country for the last half of the 20th century. No Kenney, I have no use for our friend Hans.

Posted by: Brad at September 27, 2005 04:39 PM (3OPZt)

112 Veteran Kenny, I don't have any hate. And I'm not angry, I'm disgusted that people actually believe some of the crap I've seen posted on this thread. No, Kenny, we can not live in peace when we have jihadists trying to reinstitute the Caliphate. It does not matter whether you give them Palestine, these people are not going to be satisfied until they control the entire world. You and the rest of your bunch had better wake up before you find your daughter in a burka and your head cut off as is the proper punishment for an infidel. Without a trial of any kind!

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 04:39 PM (rUyw4)

113 And none of you have answered my question. What is your plan to protect the Shia and Kurds if we pull our troops our immediately? Let them be murdered, beheaded, and gassed. Now that is real Christian of you.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 04:57 PM (rUyw4)

114 Thanks for the info RC... But I was already aware of that fact as not many americans actually know there is other countries in the world.

Posted by: No 100 Watts at September 27, 2005 05:05 PM (3pZu3)

115 Dim Bulb must be French Canadian; I can smell his crotch from here.

Posted by: Triumph the Insult Comic Dog at September 27, 2005 07:10 PM (3OPZt)

116 Dim Bulb is nothing but a dim whit.

Posted by: jesusland joe at September 27, 2005 08:47 PM (rUyw4)

117 You are like children taunting each other in a playground. Why do you have to revert to insulting and name calling? It detracts greatly from the feasability of your argumentative logic. If you would stop hurling insults, racial and ethnic epithets at everyone whose opinions you disagree with, and start engaging in real, logical debate instead perhaps people would give your words some weight and some credibility. Instead, like the school bully, you choose to call people names, like Dim bulb, dim whit, hans, asshole, troll, etc..., and suggest things like those of Arab descent regularly have sexual contact with goats. SUGGESTION: converse with people, especially those you don't know whose opinion differ from yours, with a level head and a civil tongue, otherwise they won't listen and they won't hear your point of view. Instead they will just think you're the bully in the schoolyard. JESUSLAND JOE, 9/27 at 4:43 AM I posted in reply to Brad and in answer to your CUT & RUN question, "Some of the protesters advocate just such a move. I DO NOT because, as a veteran, I realize that is implausible. I do take the position that those in power who lied, deceived, and turned to invasion and occupation before taking all measures to avoid war and reach a solution diplomatically must be held responsible for their criminal actions." We're in there, we've turned it into what it is, and now it is our responsibility to be in the business of nation building, a business Presidebt Bush assured us all we were not in. (Presidebt was a typo but when I looked back at it I decided it fits very well, so I chose to leave it in)

Posted by: veteran kenny at September 28, 2005 08:14 AM (6Y5iW)

118 welll Jesus land Joe Iraq IS a messnow isn't it. Civil war has already broken out. Our NATO partner Turkey will not be too pleased with when the Kurds start looking west tohelp their cousins also have a homeland. Iran (part of the axis of evil) will take over all of the south. And the Sunnis will ne trying to regain their lost power over the other two groups.Democracy sounds good on paper but it just might not be workable in Iraq at this time. Oh yeah and please remember WE do not live in a democracy, we live in a republic (you remember like in the Pledge of Alegiance). Our Founding Fathers were noy very confident that the mases would vote correctly. Should we expect more of Iraqis now than we have shown ourselves capable in the past ? And although God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, His Son gave us a new commandment, "I give unto you a new commandment, to love on another"

Posted by: john Ryan at September 28, 2005 08:38 AM (ads7K)

119 Liberals would like to engage in debate until we lose the war. I like to put things to the point. Rebecca suck this.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 28, 2005 06:41 PM (6krEN)

120 Greyrooster: Watch what you wish for. Rebecca's got teeth and she'll probably bite that little thing hard.

Posted by: redpecker at September 28, 2005 10:13 PM (FVsHr)

121 Brad: I’m not ungrateful. As I said, we Germans are grateful for everything the US did for us. I don’t hate the US. As I said, the world has begun to hate the current administration which obviously does speak for only half of all Americans (see above). I’m not a friend of religious hatred, whatever direction it comes from. The problem is, I can’t see how the US administration can fight crazy Arabic terrorists by becoming terrorists themselves, torturing people, occupying countries, killing civilians and so on. Iraq wasn’t about religion or terrorism, Saddam had nothing to do with it. Now, Iraq is about religion and terrorism. Iraq wasn’t about freedom and democracy, the administration said it was about WMD and now that we know they lied, they just keep coming up with other justifications (WAR is PEACE, FREEDOM is SLAVERY?). Remember the US supported Osama when he fought the Russians? Remember Saddam was a friend of Rumsfeld when he fought Iran? Remember the Iranian Schah was an ally when he suppressed his people? Can’t you see how one mistake leads to the next? Europe would like to help the US making Iraq a stable democracy if that’s possible. Now that we are in this mess, we have to get out of it. But what if the administration welcomes any help saying: ``we told you before we’re right about this´´? That’s our dilemma. Our only hope is a US president (in ’0 with whom we can work together.

Posted by: Turambar at September 29, 2005 08:20 AM (42ain)

122 All right Turambar, thanks for coming back with such a reasonable post. I guess I may have been in defense mode with all the lefties taking shots. Just a couple of points: Like Joe said, many did not think the war was a good idea, no one likes the killing. The point I was trying to make and the one it seems only you and Kenny agree with is this: Weather or not you thought the war was justified, we are in it. I am a Catholic Christian. I do not think the Christian or right thing to do is withdraw from Iraq. The human toll would be terrible and the political situation would certainly be worse. A much more interesting and productive discussion would be one that you just touched on. How can we make the best of the situation we find ourselves in? Can we get former allies to join in a solution? What would that kind of support include etc? Again, Sheehan seems to be saying just cut and run. She supports this irresponsible position with some conspiracy theories that are just nuts. In my opinion her rant is counterproductive and offers no solution to our problem. Anyway, thanks for being a reasonable German friend. Sorry for the Anti German rant.

Posted by: Brad at September 29, 2005 08:53 AM (6mUkl)

123 Brad: No problem. I'm surprised by your kind answer, thanks. What does that show us? Dialogue can also be a mighty force and is much more likely to achieve peace. Certainly a majority of Arabs don't like Osama or Saddam. We have to strenghten the moderate Muslims and help the underdeveloped countries. How do we get there? Europe has chosen the quiet way. To cite the EU Cotonou agreement (for development aid), the best way to peace is ``to promote and expedite the economic, cultural and social development of the ACP states, with a view to contributing to peace and security and to promoting a stable and democratic political environment. ´´ That does sound a lot better to me than waging a war which will only strenghten the radicals. We need international cooperation and we also need the UN. Nobody can go it alone.

Posted by: Turambar at September 29, 2005 09:56 AM (XbwU9)

124 I think that your comments are way out of order. Who else would be pompous enough to proclaim the correct path for our country is the established status quo. Just because things have been established through tradition does not mean that they are legitemate. These people are the real patriots because they have the courage and passion to attempt to improve our society; not your society; our society. Russell Cole

Posted by: Edward R Cole at October 02, 2005 03:24 PM (7pU9+)

125 Point taken. Pooh, now that will not be easy. I think what is obviously so difficult for you all to understand on my position is that it doesn’t follow the rulebook of American politics (or more precisely: the arguing about it). My comments don’t fit into the usual liberals vs. conservatives debate with its clearly drawn frontlines. As I said, Europe would have voted 85-15 for Kerry which shows us the difference in political CULTURE. America is divided in a lasting way, the last election was won by Bush by referring to cultural arguments. A debate about gay rights or citing bible verses in political discussions is the last thing Europeans can relate to. So, to make it simpler to you: - I’m on the side of the protesters, because the war was completely wrong and the administration lied to the American people which should NOT be forgiven - I’m NOT on the side of the protesters, because you cannot get your troops out now without sparking a civil war in Iraq (fair to say: Europe has the most to lose if it turned out that way) If you look more closely, everything becomes more complicated. I guess that’s what I admire and hate about Americans: to act as if it was all black and white and good versus evil. That’s also why you think we’re risk- averse cowards, of course. I freely admit that this is half true, there IS something like German Angst. You can act, we have too much past around us to be constantly reminded that today’s empires will be tomorrow’s ashes. Watch out, my friends. Peace. ``My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. ´´ JFK

Posted by: Turambar at October 02, 2005 10:40 PM (kUhbu)

126 In fact, when I look out of my window there's the old Roman city portal. Karl Marx grew up 50 meters from where I sit now. Napoleon lived 1 km away for some time and the Nazis marched through this street as well as the Allied forced. The town itself had a population of 200 000 in 300 AD and now it's only half of this. How can you believe in an idea like progress than?

Posted by: Turambar at October 02, 2005 10:52 PM (kUhbu)

127 Turambar, The US and Brits do not belong in Iraq and must leave immediately. You write, "[Y]ou cannot get your troops out now without sparking a civil war in Iraq." What exists now is a war of foreign invasion prosecuted by the US and the Brits against the Iraqis. The purpose of getting the troops out now is to end this war. When one finds oneself in a hole, the first thing that one must do is stop digging. There is no reason to believe your assertion that a civil war would follow or your implied assertion that a civil war would be worse than a foreign invasion and occupation. In your estimation, what are the advantages of US and British troops remaining in Iraq?

Posted by: red pecker at October 04, 2005 11:31 AM (rihsR)

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