As predicted Giuliana Sgrena is using her ordeal to drum up anti-American sentiments in Italy. She was in Iraq for the explicit purpose of showing the American led effort in as negative a light as possible. The death of the Italian agent who freed her, while tragic, suit her anti-war purposes just fine.
1
Dear Lord: Please let a fatal infection set in the wound this filth received from our beloved soldiers. Please let her wound fester and please let her die in agony. Then, cast her into hell.
And.... Please take Celine Dion as well. Amen.
Posted by: obsnooks at March 07, 2005 12:29 PM (yBHNA)
2
Heh. You're the first link in the World section of Google News.
Posted by: Jamie at March 07, 2005 12:53 PM (1hRqD)
3
It's a dangerous world, and Baghdad is certainly not its safest neighbourhood. You travel there for any reason, you had better expect the worst.
Posted by: Peter at March 07, 2005 01:01 PM (fJL31)
4
Dear Lord,
Hope all the Non-US troops will get out of Iraq soon and the freedom fighters of Iraq slaughter the American troops and torture them and hunt there families down, so they cannot produce more retards. That will teach them a lesson not to screw around in other people's countries.
Posted by: Pietje Puk at March 07, 2005 01:01 PM (qHqW2)
5
It's always amusing to see the justification of slaughtering of overseas people by the Americans. You can't blame the marines since they're just told to "Kill! KIll! Kill!" Very little thought required in that.
America seems to be spreading democracy from a 30,000 foot bomb hatch. They used to use the word spreading about communism. Now it's another ism. At least with Bush you can see he's the rubber stamp for what really runs the U.S.A.
It's like an old cowboy movie. The sheriff and boys kill anybody who comes into town with a gun because they're such nice guys.
Posted by: Chris at March 07, 2005 01:03 PM (PvfmC)
6
Here we go again. Trash the U.S. military. Did she she ever consider she's in a war zone? Did the intelligence officer ever notify the military about the release? Bad things happen in a war. Trash yellow spined Germans and Russians; throw-in Spain and those with litle homes on the mountain side.
Posted by: Nick at March 07, 2005 01:07 PM (lKP/K)
7
Wars have been won and lost without international journalists taking part in the Jane Fonda effect against the military, whether it be Bush or Atilla the Hun. She entered a war zone at her own risk then acted upon the compassion of the people of Italy when the future didn't follow the plan. War has always been ugly and full of atrocities. And journalism only brings these calamities to the light of the people. There will always be war, but with a little luck, there will not always be journalists lighting up the ugly side. Next time you enter a war zone, do your homework first. And don't forget to stop at the light.
Posted by: Walt Landmesser at March 07, 2005 01:09 PM (Rmgql)
8
I think this reporter staged the whole kidnapping.
Got together with some "friends" of hers in Iraq
and had them hold her and make the videos demanding
the withdrawl of troups.
Posted by: Mark at March 07, 2005 01:09 PM (d3UF5)
9
My prayers go out to the family of the Italian agent who lost his life. It's unfortunate that others were also injured, and it is possible that there are flaws in the US checkpoint process. Certainly, in wartime, all does not go perfectly and mistakes are made. However, to accuse Americans of trying to target a journalist (annoying though she may be) is beyond ludicrous. Sadly, many Europeans seem to be gullible enough to believe this trash because anti-Americanism is flaming along just fine thoughout Europe in spite of the obvious success of the Iraqi elections and the fact that the consequential democratic domino effect is clearly in motion now throughout the Middle East. The sad thing is that Europeans will remember all the accusations, but they will quickly forget about the facts that come out in the investigation that prove that Ms. Sgrena's accusations were completely baseless. People like her are very successful at generating irrational hatred toward our country. In light of all the lies she has propogated, I find it very difficult to wish her her a speedy recovery.
Posted by: Dorothy Hyden at March 07, 2005 01:10 PM (YekN6)
10
It is interesting to see how much credibility is given someone who was admittedly predijust against the American involvement. Any fool could see that there would not be anything to gain by such an action. If she returned, she would look more foolish defending the terrorists who abducted her and would have less credibility. If she was injured or killed, people might forget her extreme bias out of sympathy. And for those of you who think this was a planned assassinationÂ… why did anyone survive? The American troops could have taken all day to finish of all the witnesses. It is more likely that Elvis was riding in the car with them.
Posted by: Grand Junction, Colorado at March 07, 2005 01:15 PM (VFKRS)
11
Only the complete TRUTH can bring peace and set the whole world free.
Pray for peace with honest and equal justice for all humans and all nations on earth.
There is really only one race and it is
THE HUMAN RACE
Posted by: Dan at March 07, 2005 01:16 PM (6s4Wu)
12
If 'anti-american sentiments' are growing in Europe as a result of the so-called 'incident', so much the better! The US occupation of Iraq is unlawful and the many, many stories of atrocities committed by the US military should be enough to convince every sane person on the planet that to be 'anti-american', in this case, is a moral duty.
Note that anti-american means: anti-imperialist, anti-Bush, anti-war. We, in Europe, have no quarrel with individual US citizens.
Posted by: Hiram at March 07, 2005 01:18 PM (abGCG)
13
Like every great empire that impeded their ways forcefully upon others, you will fall America. It's only a matter of time now. That why you're great leaders are scrambling to delay the inevitable. The schoolyard is getting tired of the jackass bully. And by the way, if you yankees really want to kill some bad guys why don't you just point the guns at yourselves and quit shooting the rest of the world. Pricks!
Posted by: lucifer at March 07, 2005 01:24 PM (yVXTt)
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As for religon, All roads lead to GOD. It only matters if you travel the road your on toword God or away from GOD.
Peace and blessings be with all that travel in the right direction. As for those that travel in the wrong direction lets leave them to GOD.
They will be brought to justice for sure.
Posted by: Dan USA at March 07, 2005 01:25 PM (6s4Wu)
15
My dear Hiram, has it not occurred to you the being "anti" another population is not a constructive attitude? In spite of all the anti-Americanism, and Bush bashing, we Americans have managed not to be anti-European, but our patience is thinning. We support the European Union. We prefer strong allies to weak ones that our taxpayers and military feel an obligation to defend. We feel a bond with democracies around the world because they share our values. All your trash talk really is an impediment to international goodwill, There is no moral duty to hate another country. The only moral duty I feel is to love my neighbor.
Posted by: Dorothy Hyden at March 07, 2005 01:30 PM (YekN6)
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We all know that Nicola would never have speeded the vehicle towards a checkpoint, something smells very bad on this case, and it's coming from the Pentagon !!
Posted by: Manuel at March 07, 2005 01:33 PM (gmnGH)
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The behavior of Giuliana Sgreba and the European media is as shabby a performance as I have ever seen. Here we have a reporter for a communist publication, and, presumably, a communist herself, making statements for which there is absolutly no evidence whatever. In the meantime, few deal with the obvious and verifiable: what are checkpoints for, and what can be expected to happen to those who attempt to crash them. No one speaks of whether the Americans were advised of the trip and if their cooperation was sought.
What we can conclude from this, to paraphrase Tallyrand "this is worse than lying malice, it is STUPID"
Posted by: Sam Manzo at March 07, 2005 01:34 PM (EFRvN)
18
I hate our murderous, war-mongering president. This is such a
mess. I would like to personally pull all of our troops out and drop one my employer's nukes on those ragheads.
GE Steve
Posted by: Steven Schnurer at March 07, 2005 01:35 PM (wJ2lD)
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Has it been said yet, whether or not this little Italian trek into Iraq was ever cleared by US/coalition forces? I've read that they "informed the Italian embassy" and went in after her... If they didn't make sure Uncle Sam was in the know, isn't it common sense that US Patrols might mistake them on the road for terrorists? You know, especially if they were driving from a place that terrorists were camped out in? Duh.
Posted by: Thom at March 07, 2005 01:38 PM (4xVss)
20
If whe was targeted, why is she alive? This "assasination" was cut short half-way through because...of what? The soldiers saw blood and it freaked them out? Some untold heoric rescue took place, all details omitted?
Give me a break. Paranoia among Italians abounds, never in the right place.
I have just as much right to ask why Sgrena feels it is ok to risk time, money, and lives of her country men in order to help her fulfill her self appointed role of savior of all injustices. Disgusting selfishness comes with a price.
Guess who is going to pay, yet again?
Posted by: Ash at March 07, 2005 01:39 PM (vOBKT)
21
One wrote above European forgot the iraqi election and domino effect in Mid East.
but don't forget American Troop went there because Bush said there were WMD, then where are they? and who say Iraq need democracy? did you hear any Iraqi living there say so? if a possession of WMD is a crime, why not Bush just kill every gun owner in his country
Posted by: Ryan Lee at March 07, 2005 01:39 PM (GpmN8)
22
While people have admitted that the car carrying
Nicola and Sgrena continued toward the checkpoint
in the most dangerous area of Iraq without stopping,
they think that the troops should have known that
there were just nice people inside it. And from a distance, they apparently think that any soldier
in the world would easily recognize the faces of Giuliana Sgrena and Nicola Calipari wherever they
were in the car. And apparently the only
explanation they have is that American Soldiers
would think that the way to punish Italy was to
take away these two very important people and
throw that country into chaos.
People, this is an unfortuneate accident. All
other explanations are so full of arrogance,
self-importance, paranoia, and selfish
manipulation of pain for a personal agenda
that the world should simply realize that a
stressful situation has caused someone to imagine
themselves to be a focus of international
concern.
GMS
Posted by: Mark at March 07, 2005 01:48 PM (+dSGg)
23
In spite of all the anti-Americanism, and Bush bashing, we Americans have managed not to be anti-European....
That's funny. Have you seen Fox News, umm, ever?
Posted by: mantis at March 07, 2005 01:50 PM (zmcHh)
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Mr. Schnurer, I assume that you are American. I am, too, but I completely disagree with you. Your solution of dropping "nukes" is not even remotely humorous. It is deeply offensive. Since you seem to be ill-informed about the objectives of US foreign policy, I suggest that you take the responsibility to do what people in democracies have to do: Educate yourself on the direction your country is headed. I think the best resource for this is the book, THE CASE FOR DEMOCRACY by former Soviet political prisoner, Natan Sharansky. He will show you how US policy looks to those living under oppression. The view of political prisoners from the other side of the bars is quite different from those living in pampered safety. Because the US took a strong stand, Mr. Sharansky was released. As a result, he has little use for governments that try to appease tyrants. Mr. Sharansky also draws the distinction between fear societies and free societies - a distinction that desperately needs to be made in this age of moral relativism. THE CASE FOR DEMOCRACY really helped me to grasp the logic behind current US foreign policy and I recommend it to readers all over the world.
Posted by: Dorothy Hyden at March 07, 2005 01:54 PM (YekN6)
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Why do people waste their energy being so hateful. Also, remember that there is no major country in existence that has not be part and parcel to subjugation and repression. France is a prime example of a tyrannical empire, they took over a lot of north africa, and asia and then pretended like they aren't responsible for all the mess there. The slave trade in America was facilitated and expanded by the europeans so they could get their precious textiles and tobacco. Syria happily harbors terrorists and funds the insurgency in iraq. England royally f'd up in india and left two nuclear powers that hate each other in their wake.
Let's not forget our dear friends Mussolini and Hitler. I think the world is better off without the little hitler that was running iraq, and honestly, the only reason the US troops are still there is to reduce the chance of baathists from syria or fundamentalists from Iran taking over the whole damn country.
Do you think Americans really want our soldiers dying across the world, no. But, it is in the best interests of iraq and the US that we deal with it.
Posted by: be at March 07, 2005 01:55 PM (JdL3W)
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Man, here we go. This is no win story. The ones that are pro-war and pro-bush, will find all kinds of excuses to justify these acts. But if you believe one minute that the world has forgotten all the lies that lead to this war, you are stupid or naive. Maybe this was just an innocent accident, but the americans lack any credit for moral justification. In the end you will always be seen, as arrogant self-centered liers.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 07, 2005 01:57 PM (yetMj)
27
Nicola is a piece of SH_T.
Degenerate, soft headed leftist commie scum.
I am very sad that our beloved soldiers did not kill the bitch.
Posted by: Earl Dittman at March 07, 2005 02:03 PM (yBHNA)
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Dear Italians, Germans, Russians and all other rational, solution oriented people. Here's the scenario: You are away from home and loved ones, serving in a foreign land, praying to your creator to get you home soon in one piece but you know that what you are doing is just, honorable and a sacrifice for your nation and the one your country is trying very hard to bring peace, stability and freedom to. This is not for conquest, oil or anything else other than exactly as stated above. If it were, then this country could have kept Italy, France,Japan, the Philippines, Germany, Kuwait, etc., and many other countries where our young mens ( and womens ) blood has drenched the soil not in conquest but in liberation. See the facts for yourself. Now, here we are in Iraq, bringing freedom and Democracy to not just this country but to the whole region where freedom and Democracy is begining to catch on. Choosing your own life, voting for your own country's representatives, giving equal rights to all., that is to all men and women too. Doesn't sound like what a conqueror does... does it. Ok, so now, you are a military person guarding a post or an entrance to an area trying to keep the people who are willing to blow themselves up as well as ANYBODY who happens to be around from doing just that, blowing up fellow soldiers, innocent men, women and or children. The bad guys have no preferences, the goal is to kill. Their modus operendi is to drive a vehicle loaded with explosives as fast as possible to a checkpoint and blow everything up when they get there. The plan is simple, for quite a while it worked well and LOTS of God's creatures died for no reason. So one night a vehicle comes at you at your post, fast and won't even slow down when ordered to, ignores warning shots and keeps right on coming. What would you do?? I know what I would do because if you don't it could very well be the last thing that you didn't do. This is a war zone, much is alredy being done to humanize it as much as possible but instinct and survival play a hand too. Get real.
Posted by: A. Rom at March 07, 2005 02:08 PM (LUUNH)
29
Is this a joke site. I´m confused. The justification for this war that the Iraqis possesed WMD, and the americans invaded Iraq to make the world safer, all of a sudden, this became a war for democracy. Does all the americans suufer from collective amnesia, first you were getting rid of WMD´s now you are the liberators, whose solemn purpose is to spread democracy all over the world. Is this the same democracy that you "freed" Puerto Rico from the spaniards, or Texas from the mexicans. This must be a joke.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 07, 2005 02:27 PM (yetMj)
30
Mr. Garl, you are absolutely right that we were mislead about the reasons for going to war. We were told that weapons of mass destruction existed and they did not. For those of you reading this who aren't American, I apologize for that. I regret that I can't do more. Personally, I opposed the war and was so furious about the absence of weapons of mass destruction that I voted for Kerry. I stayed angry until I watched the elections in Iraq. Watching 8 million Iraqi's defying death threats to march to the polls with their children in their arms brought me to tears. It finally occurred to me that even though US intelligence had been wrong, the US was right to keep its promise to the Iraqi people to leave them with a democratic government. Mr. Garl, if you want to see us, Americans, as arrogant self-centered liars, you are entitled to your opinion. Personally,more important to me than your opinion is how the Iraqi people feel 10 years from now when the street battles are behind them and they are enjoying all the rights they deserve. If those democratic rights spread to other Middle Eastern countries and lead to peace in the region and a reduction in worldwide terrorism, the absence of weapons of mass destruction will be short paragraph in history books.
Posted by: Dorothy Hyden at March 07, 2005 02:27 PM (YekN6)
31
Sometimes I wonder why we saved all these people in WWII. First the French, now the Italians. Do they remember that A LOT of Americans were killed defending their countries? I guess 50 years from now, the Iraqi people will yell at us for developing a democratic country in another part of the world. I guess this is what they give us for the freedom we gave them.
Posted by: Whydidwe doit at March 07, 2005 02:28 PM (aklAt)
32
Can't we blame the Jew for any of this?
Posted by: Wine-aholic at March 07, 2005 02:28 PM (Wsn+K)
33
Ms Dorothy, there is an old saying that goes," of good intentions hell is full". I believe that you are not one of this neo cons who consider themselves prophets. But the point all of you are missing, is that the people who went to vote were not just fed up with the insurgents, they are fed up with the americans too. They want there lives back. If even a high ranking ally isn´t safe, imagine how the ordinary iraqi feels. I can´t fortell the future, but we can llok back to the past. It´s remarkably alike the current words of spreading democracy, with what was said some 40 years ago about Viet Nam, democracy, liberation, getting rid of the insurgents. We all know how this story ended. Maybe many believe democracy has flourished in the middle east, but do you really believe this it. Do you believe the resentment, the lies, the betrayals will be forgotten. I´m fond of what the US has given the world. But you have to able to distinguish was true and whats propaganda. I simply can´t believe this has ended, it´s just begun.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 07, 2005 02:42 PM (yetMj)
34
put the blame where it belongs- on whichever italian higher-ups who continue to pay off hostage-takers with tens of millions of dollars, thus encouraging more of the same.
" After a string of kidnappings in Iraq, Italians are wondering whether they are paying the price for a perceived state policy of paying ransom.
Ten Italians have been abducted in Iraq in the past year, a disproportionately high number by comparison with the United States or Britain, which staunchly oppose payments -- even if that means hostages die.
The last Italian hostage, award-winning war correspondent Giuliana Sgrena, was released unharmed by her Iraqi kidnappers on Friday amid reports of a multi-million-dollar pay-off which even a government minister called "likely".
But instead of celebrating Sgrena's release, Italy is in shock after an intelligence agent was shot dead by U.S. troops as he was ferrying her out of the country.
"We have to rethink our strategy in dealing with kidnappings," Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was quoted as saying by Il Messaggero newspaper on Monday."
Posted by: fred at March 07, 2005 02:42 PM (UNgzk)
35
Mr. Garl, of course the Iraqi people are tired of the intrusion of American troops and want their lives back. In their place, I would feel exactly the same way! But ask them today if they want US troops to leave immediately, and I think you will learn that the answer is "no". In the beginning, they questioned our motives and thought we wanted to stay as foreign occupiers. Now, even though they are tired of the constant battles, they understand that, without foreign troops present, their new democracy would quickly evaporate. It's true, too, that the situation will remain tenuous when coalition troops are replaced by Iraqi forces. (Believe me, we look forward to that day!) At this point, no one can be certain of the outcome. But, for the sake of the Iraqi people, I hope that you join me is wanting this fragile experiment in democracy to succeed.
Posted by: Dorothy Hyden at March 07, 2005 03:00 PM (YekN6)
36
Ms Dorothy, again, we have to look back to the past, and try to find the answers to the future. If you are familiar with american history, you know that after Viet Nam became an unpopular war, Nixon came up with the brilliant stategy of the Vietnamization of war. If you are unfamilar, it is exactly what is being done now in Iraq. They are finding an excuse to get rid of mess Mr Bush has made and transfering it to ill prepared bastards, that don´t have the resources to keep control over the situation. Once again, as in Viet Nam, you come in, create a mess, and try to find an exit strategy, that once again try to fool the world with the same excuse. But differently from the average american the rest of the world remembers.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 07, 2005 03:13 PM (yetMj)
37
Thanks for educating me about US history, Mr. Garl, but I do have a college degree in that subject, so I know a thing or two about previous wars. In fact the Vietnam war was going on while I was attending the University of California. I opposed that war, Mr. Garl, and I still do today. War is never my first choice. As I mentioned, I opposed going into Iraq even when others said there were weapons of mass destruction - and disarming a tyrant like Saddam Hussein really isn't the worst idea anyone's ever had. As in all countries, our leaders sometime make mistakes. Our government's misleading the world about weapons of mass destruction was a huge and horrible mistake. I believe I already acknowledged that in an earlier post. But taken FROM THAT POINT, what should the US have done? Cut and run like so many other countries and left the Iraqi people at the mercy of the next tyrant? Or keep our promise to the Iraqi people to leave them with a democratic government? Which choice is more honorable, Mr. Garl? Believe me, if I didn't think the US is currently on the right track, George Bush would be hearing from me - and it wouldn't be the first time! Isn't that what democracy is all about? Holding our leaders accountable? Are you doing the same in your country, or do you spend all your time complaining about the US?
Posted by: Dorothy Hyden at March 07, 2005 04:38 PM (YekN6)
38
Garl, your understanding of the history of US conflicts is amusingly poor. "Vietnamization" was not an attempt to cover up US "failures", it was the obvious and constant goal of US efforts from the start.
It was always the goal in Iraq. Your misrepresentation notwithstanding.
Posted by: Robin Roberts at March 07, 2005 05:43 PM (xauGB)
39
@ Dorothy Hyden:
You didn't read what I wrote. I specifically stated that "anti-american means: anti-imperialist, anti-Bush, anti-war. We, in Europe, have no quarrel with individual US citizens."
Also, please be informed that the larger part of the world does not share, and does not want to share your "values", and don't assume that we do. The US implementation of democracy is a joke. You have to nearly identical parties you can choose from. Large numbers of voters are unable to vote, and strong suspicions of fraud have arisen at the last two presidential elections. Please do not pretend to be in a position to teach the world about democracy, as you know next to nothing about it.
And liberty? O, let's not go there. To have liberty, you must first of all have a decent life. Or any life, really. Child mortality in the US is higher than in, to name one example, and a nice one, too, Cuba. Half the US population is appalled by the mere idea of someone wanting to have an abortion, but many small children die of malnutrition and routinely curable diseases. Your army consists of poor boys and girls who have no other options in life than to risk their lives in imperialist adventures abroad. Then, when they are wounded, Bush cuts their allowances, so they'll spend the rest of their lives as handicapped wretches counting their food coupons. That's liberty for you.
Wake up. The US is in ruins. Your country is bankrupt politically, economically, and morally. Your president is a war-mongering puppet. You are not fit to play the world's policeman, and you never were.
Posted by: Hiram at March 07, 2005 05:50 PM (abGCG)
40
Ms Dorothy,
First, my country didn´t use lies to justify an unlawful invasion. I´m sorry, but a country that is so blind to see it´s own mistakes, and worse of all re elects the person that misguided the whole world into an unjustified war, has to held accountable for it´s errors. I´ve read some comments about what happened in Viet Nam. The facts, from 1972 to 1975, almost all direct engagements were transfered from the US to South Viet Nam, it is what historians account as the Vietnamization of the war, period. That´s what is happening right now in Iraq. I´m sorry that you are so impregnated with propaganda that you can´t see the obvious. Unfornately in this case you are not the good guys. You´ve became a foreign occupation army, in a place nobody asked or elected you as their heros. Don´t be naive, your goverment has repeatedly lied to you and to the world, and has kept the sam policy. Your arrogance comes from the fact you believe you are the savyors of the world, you´re not. Mind your own business and leave the rest of the world in peace. Don´t think the rest of world has debt towards you, as someone with a college major in history, don´t forget that your country was built with lies (spanish-american war, USS Maine), betrayal (mexican-american wars), genocide ( native americans), you don´t have any moral grounds to try to preech democracy to the world.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 07, 2005 06:43 PM (yetMj)
41
I have a question. For those of you condoning the slaughter and immediate pull-out of American troops, are you aware that the majority of Iraqis feel differently? Are you aware that they would disagree with what you think is so obvious?
If not, believe it. If you do, then why are you still talking? Most Iraqis don't give a shit what you think, because you're not the ones in direct contact with the Coalition and the Iraqis who are involved in the efforts to do some good in that country.
Doesn't it matter to you at all that the people who you are apparently "defending" or speaking out for would DISAGREE with your views???? Or are you just so pathetically stubborn that it doesn't matter?
I will never understand this stupidity. It seems as if you're convinced that the more you deny what Iraqis have to say, the more right you'll be. "No, they don't want the Americans there. No, they hate the Americans." It's like a little child plugging his ears and repeating "I'm not listening I'm not listening." Just keep up with it, because decent Americans, Brits, Japanese and soldiers from many other nations as well as devoted and brace Iraqis will continue to rebuild and take control of the country that has been denied them for so long.
Stick that in your fucking pipe and smoke it.
Posted by: Igor Kazakov at March 07, 2005 07:48 PM (xM3Dg)
42
Hiram, amusingly the EU is in far poorer shape economically than the US. Tell us another fantasy.
Garl, you are only continuing to demonstrate your ignorance. There was no "lies" about the Spanish American War. The US intervened in the Cuban fight for independance. The loss of the Maine was a trigger point, but not the reason for US intervention. And no one really knew what sank the Maine - so your claim that it was a "lie" demonstrates only your own dishonesty. The rest of your pseudo-history is just as useless.
Posted by: Robin Roberts at March 07, 2005 08:11 PM (xauGB)
43
Lee Garl,
I'm a russian native who grew up in central Siberia, England, and I now reside in the U.S. I have been here the fewest years (almost 6) and I'm almost 25 years old. This country certainly has its head up its arse on MANY issues, and some of your related points touch upon some of those issues.
However, you suffer from the same fault as any of your colleagues who continue with ambiguous arguments about America should not being the world's saviors, etc. You should be concerned that the U.S is doing everything it can to correct the mistakes that it made receiving and utilizing the information that led them to believe there were weapons of mass destruction.
But, when you begin to argue about saving people and that the U.S should "leave the world in peace," I think you know full well that the majority of Iraqis would disagree with you. I have never understood the position of people who make similar arguments, because you seem to be trying your hardest to deny the Iraqis that oppose the insurgency and support the help they're receiving rebuilding their country. I have seen the interviews, and the messages given by clerics and scholars. Even those Iraqis who wish the Coalition to pull-out immediately still support the efforts that went into dismantling the regime. Do you just not get any of this information where you live? Or are you convinced that the interviews and sermons are made up? Staged? Forced? The fact, and it is immensly detrimental to your argument, is that they are not. I know you find it hard to believe and may not want to believe it, but the majority of Iraqis simply don't feel the way you do. Yet you are attempting to defend them?
I think I was granted the gift of having the common sense and decency of a Brit and Russian, and while there are many elements in American society that are laughable and topsy-turvy, I have to tell you as a foreigner that many of the silly, stereotypes that arise from Europe (and primarily from that area) are untrue. The Middle East has been awakened by the events that have developed over the past years. It is not a coincidence that Lebanon, Israel and Palestine are all making moves towards better a better existence. You can deny this all you want, but the truth is not contingent on you believing it. It simply is.
Also, I'm not surprised that you continuously mention America, instead of the Coalition, since it is the Coalition who is in Iraq, not America alone. It's as if, because Americans started the war, all other countries are free of their responsibility for joining the efforts. Nobody was forced, and you know that. This is a on-going and revealing mistake made by many who have argued your case, and seems to show a bias. Just some assertions.
Igor
Posted by: Igor Kazakov at March 07, 2005 08:11 PM (xM3Dg)
44
Hiram,
"To nearly identical parties to choose from?"
Oh my. I really wish you would live in the United States, so that you would have SOME credibility, because that statement is the most ridiculous I've seen in a while.
Haha, the Democrats and Republicans the same? Are you really claiming that? Believe me friend you are WAY off the mark there. You should really get a good exposure to the two parties before you make silly comments like that.
Posted by: Igor Kazakov at March 07, 2005 08:16 PM (xM3Dg)
45
You two fella's are a joke. Must be more Italians. Im a proud American who absolutly hates this asshole we got in office and I am sick of this war. But I can't stand people when they accuse the U.S. military of "trying" to assasinate somebody, if we wanted to kill that woman, we would have "randomly" decided to put an Abrams tank at that check point.
This is not how the U.S. Military operates. I live in a military family, and there are two medal of honor reciepiants in my families. Our soldiers are over there, yes perhaps mislead, but now doing everything in their power to ensure freedom and democracy can prevail and we can bring our troops home. Don't think for one second we are enjoying ourselves or are war mongering or killing people for fun over there.
Don't you dare forget the gallons of American blood shed in France, Germany, Italy and elsewhere to ensure democracy. Vietnam was a total failure, our nation, our own people didn't even support our troops. That's not happening again and I can assure you my freinds, with out without the cry baby Europeans who freedom we helped guarntee with hundreds of thousands of American lives, democracy will prevail in Iraq, and our boys, our so called "occupation force", will come home.
God Bless the USA. Anybody but Bush.
Posted by: Cain at March 07, 2005 10:52 PM (spv7p)
46
Mr Igor,
I´m shure you must have some secret polls no one knows, that gives you the right to talk in the behalf of the iraqis.I´ve read the same newspapers you read, and I didn´t get the pink sky you painted. If you are so welcome in Iraqi, why do we repeatedly see locals cheering every time an american convoy or corpse is found, why are they not mourning the death of their so called "liberators". Your infamous elections was held upon a constitution dictated, and imposed by Mr Paul Bremer. If you really believe in democracy why don´t you simply call a poll to ask Iraqis if they want there. Don´t speak about facts that you and me don´t know, you have part of the story, I have the other one, but the real ones how know the hole story, haven´t had a voice till this very day. As I said before don´t start lecturing about history because you have a very poor record. To the gentleman that said that America intervened in the Cuban wars to help cuban independence, give me a break, please. The US used the USS Maine incident, as a justification to declare war to Spain and take all ultra-marine possesions, till this very day, you have a piece of land called Puerto Rico, that is part of the US. If that isn´t an imperial war, I don´t know what it is. To all of you that repeat the mantra that are the liberators of Europe, let me remind that without the help of this same Europe, you wouldn´t even be nation, you´re like a bastard child, unwilling to recognize his parents. To the gentleman that said that there is american blood in the old continent, there is plenty french blood in american soil that also helped you fight foryour independence. We are even.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 08, 2005 03:06 AM (yetMj)
47
@ Robin: It's rather the US economy that is a fantasy. Even heard about the deficit? Your country is owned by Japanese companies, and your Dollar is no match for 'our' Euro. Dream on, you are right on course for the abyss.
@ Igor: Here in Europe we actually have something we call political pluralism. This means that there are real differences between political parties. Of course, from where you stand, the differences between Republicans and Democrats may seen huge, but Reps and Dems would both be considered very right-wing, showing negligible differences, if they were European parties. Which, thankfully, they are not.
But we are digressing, comrades. The point was, and is, that US troops killed an Italian 007 and nearly killed a released hostage journalist. Tuck away your crystal balls for a moment, and realise that we have still very few facts to judge the situation from. How is it, then, that most of you can claim to know that no harm was intended? You even think you know some details better than those who were there when it happened, like how many shots were fired. Is there something that makes you feel uneasy about this situation, perhaps? Is that why you all seem so certain it was just an accident? Is that why some of you, on this and other sites, feel the need to shout 'God bless America' instead of reasoning and trying to arrive at the truth, however painful it may be?
O, and one more thing. Please stop whining about the American blood shed in Europe for our freedom. The US didn't enter the war until nazi Germany became a threat to... the US. Your grandfathers, who may have been heroes as individuals, and who may have fought with the noblest of motives (no irony intended here), were used as pawns on the great, bloody chessboard of imperialism. Too bad, but that is what happened, boys and girls.
Posted by: Hiram at March 08, 2005 06:03 AM (abGCG)
48
This war Hiram is telling us all about started when Germany and it's partner The Soviet Union invaided Poland.Next time Hiram starts up with that Fallujah shit, just remind him of Eastern Poland, the Katyn Forest massacre and the Soviet stop outside Warsaw to allow the Germans to slaughter the poles.
You can worship at the alter of Joe Stalin,Pol Pot and the rest of your commie hall of fame, We don't but that shit over here.Your murdering Governments in The USSR and Cambodia make Nazi Germany pale.
Your commie idology brought us nothing but darkness for half a century in Eastern Europe. The bones of your system's victims are still piled high in Siberia.
Every time I hear a Commie talk about Iraq I want to puke.
One thing is for sure, We have a vision for a better Iraq than y'all had for East Germany.
Posted by: Brad at March 08, 2005 08:28 AM (+7VNs)
49
I don't remember having defended either Stalin or Pol Pot. I'm a communist, but of the Trotskyite variety, pleased to meet you. Read some history if you don't know what 'Trotskyite' means.
The important thing here is that the Iraqi people do not expect Americans to have "a vision for a better Iraq". They simply want you to leave them alone.
Posted by: Hiram at March 08, 2005 08:46 AM (abGCG)
50
Hiram,
You may have the best of intentions. However, when the system you advocate actually gets into power people like you are shoved aside by the thugs.
People like you would end up like Trotsky,dead. Or if your luckey, Dubcek.
Posted by: Brad at March 08, 2005 09:05 AM (+7VNs)
51
Brad,
I'd like to answer you, but what I wrote is rejected by the server: "Your comment could not be submitted due to questionable content". Uh.
Posted by: Hiram at March 08, 2005 09:49 AM (abGCG)
52
Hiram
How dare you compare the French involment in the American War of Independance with the U.S. led liberation of Western Europe to be on par. It is an insult for people to think that we could not have won that war without them. Need I remind you what the primary role of the French army was? Advising! The French Navy did more to help us than the French army. And in Europe? The French Army that helped the U.S. on D-Day and beyond was just as much a JOKE as it was helping us in America. Thousands of Americans died on French soil, whilst only a mere hundred or so French gave their lives for America. Need I remind you of World War I? How many American soldiers died there, surley not as much as the French lost, but enough to make the mediocre French involment in America PALE in comparison.
So before you write your little temper tamptrum insult in response of this let me say this, the French will never, ever, be "even" with us, that is an insult in of itself, to be sure.
The United States army is a noble and just army with soldiers who don't want to be in Iraq any more than most of the world wants them to be there. I will be the first to say that we have questionable leaders with questionable motivations, but do not dare to suggest the U.S. army in Iraq is anything but professional. This is the most professional army in the world, with moral values beyond what is necessary. No army is perfect, as was the case at Abu Grab, but I assure you, if ANY U.S. soldier received orders to kill a civilian or, in this case an Italian jounalist, he would have dropped his weaponed and left his post.
God Bless the U.S. Anybody but Bush.
Posted by: Cain at March 08, 2005 11:36 AM (spv7p)
53
Please,
I as a person oposing your derailed views am not even going to attempt to change your mind about the reality of the US government.
But, do not be naive.
Read oposing points of view.
Read history accounts from history books of other countries other than US's.
Do not be afraid to find yourself lied to.
The fact of the mater is.
The US government and the corporations that run this country have for years been sedating the people into a numbing trance, by keeping the truth away from them.
I can go on and on in infinitum...
Like i stated above.
Do not be afraid to grow as a person and admit that you have been cheated your whole life.
Cheated by your educational system, cheated by your media, cheated by your government and cheated by your own parents.
Posted by: French Revolution at March 08, 2005 11:48 AM (e+57w)
54
Cain,
I never even mentioned the French or the War of Independence. But I do know how to spell 'independence'.
Posted by: Hiram at March 08, 2005 11:58 AM (abGCG)
55
I find it amusing you think that Im brainwashed considering the AP World History book I studied from several years ago was original written in French and translated in France.
But this is besides the point. I understand that the government may lie to its people, the media may too, but my reason comes from the mouths of my freinds in arms, from the men and woman who have served, been wounded while trying to help the Iraqi people. The word of a man so willing to volunteer to risk his life for the ideals of his country, as corrupt as it may be, mean more to me that that somebody on the idiot who thinks the American government is brainwashing its citizins. My friend, if America, where freedom shines the brightest, is brainwashed, I dread to think what the citizins of a place like Italy, Russia, or God help us, France, have been force fed by their governments.
Have you not once stopped to consider, during all your ranting about how America lies and is unjust and whatnot, that your own government, that your own media is lying to you, especially if you live in Italy and you believe that nutter Communist. Do you really believe her? Can you honestly look me in the face and say "yes, I believe the U.S. used napalm and even nukes in Fallujah, and yes I believe that the insurgancy, who kills dozens of innocent Iraqi civilians on a daily basis, is a noble cause."
Fool, look to your own government, education, and media before you accuse the U.S. version of such of lying to us.
Posted by: Cain at March 08, 2005 12:08 PM (spv7p)
56
My apologies, Harim, that was Lee Garl.
Posted by: Cain at March 08, 2005 12:10 PM (spv7p)
57
It's too bad we can't edit stuff, no insult was intended Hiram.
Posted by: Cain at March 08, 2005 12:18 PM (spv7p)
Posted by: Hiram at March 08, 2005 12:27 PM (abGCG)
59
Dear illetarate MR Cain.
"General Rochambeau had a long and illustrious military career. He served in FranceÂ’s military for most of his life, and experienced combat first hand. He served at every level of command, beginning at the age of 17. Americans respect and honor him to this day for his vital contributions to American Independence. He fought alongside General WashingtonÂ’s troops as commander of 5,500 French troops, including his own son. They came to America in 1780 as reinforcements for the French volunteers serving with General Lafayette. General Rochambeau established an excellent relationship with George Washington, and made significant contributions to the strategy that led to victory at Yorktown in Virginia. This battle defeated the British forces in America, and led directly to their surrender and American Independence. For his courage, wisdom, and leadership, Americans remember and honor General Rochambeau." US ambassodor 02/02/2005, France.
I hate these americans that do not what they are talking about.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 08, 2005 04:38 PM (yetMj)
60
I refuse to discuss with semi-illetarate, they are too dumb.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 08, 2005 04:41 PM (yetMj)
61
Geez Lee,
You copied that right out of the encyclopedia.
Ok, thanks to you French for your help.
Very sorry to Italy for the loss of your agent. It was an accident of war.
To hell with you Giuliana for getting a good man killed then trying to advance your worthless life and position standing on his grave.
Man , what a piece of shit you are.
Posted by: Brad at March 08, 2005 05:51 PM (UETl7)
62
Repeating an earlier post, Sgrena's claim of being a threat to the American government is obvious nonsense. Sgrena lacked any international reputation of importance until this "kidnapping" and death of an Italian agent. Now her accusations of "deliberate targeting" have conveniently placed her in the spotlight. Otherwise her return would have not generated much attention beyond a few days.
The easiest explanation for this situation appears to point at the "stupid or insane driver causes terrible accident" theory, i.e. speeding car mistaken for terrorist bomber.
However, I think someone should investigate the direction and distance of the weapon that killed the agent. If this wasnÂ’t just a bad accident, but instead an actual murder, then investigators should be look for whoover would had the motivation to kill the agent.
So then one must ask:
WHO STOOD TO GAIN BY THE DEATH of an Italian secret service agent? Certainly, the US government hasn't gained by Sgrena's nasty scandalmongering. In fact, so far, Sgrena, her Communist paper and the kidnappers have been raking in the benefits. So, as an alterative explanation, could Sgrena or one of her kidnappers been responsible?
If I may speculate further in this direction; Sgrena has vilified the USA in earlier articles and without providing documentation. She went to Iraq with the express purpose of assisting the very group that kidnapped her. Outside of the suggestion that she could have gained a cut of the ransom money, her political goals for Italy failed despite her kidnappers' demands. So Sgrena was about to return home without the prize. So invertigators should consider her motivations for the death of a secret service agent.
How far would she being willing to go in order to create a world class story, and turn her failing efforts into a victory?
Would Sgrena have been capable of suggesting to her hosts that killing the agent would allow her to discredit the Americans?
Posted by: Mirramele at March 08, 2005 09:06 PM (hmPkH)
63
correction
whoover= whomever
invertigators = investigators
Posted by: Mirramele at March 08, 2005 09:20 PM (hmPkH)
64
No Brad, quoted from a US ambassador speech. http://www.amb-usa.fr/ambassador/speeches/2005/022305.htm.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 09, 2005 04:16 AM (yetMj)
65
Continued conversation with the likes of LEE GARL, HIRAM is a waste of time and space.
Dorothy Hyden: Who the hell do you think you are apologizing for America. Who voted you America's spokesperson? Moonbats should speak for themselves. WMD hasn't been found. That doesn't mean it didn't exist. Syria and Iran haven't been searched yet. In Gulf war 1, Iraq sent most of it's air force to Iran. Why not WMD? The 150,000 to 500,000 innocent civilians the liberals claim killed haven't been found either.
I attended UCB during the 1960's as well as serving in Viet Nam. The war that helped bankrupt the soviets. You'll probably remember me. The guy standing on the wall pissing on the protesters.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 09, 2005 07:37 AM (CBNGy)
66
Hiram, Dorothy,
This is another Viet Nam vet with war trauma. Be condecendent with him, this is another poor creture that lives in the past full of nostalgia of a lost war.
Posted by: Lee Garl at March 09, 2005 10:42 AM (yetMj)
67
Lee I agree with you, the other half of his brain was left in Viet Nam.
Posted by: Dario Mattos at March 09, 2005 10:47 AM (yetMj)
68
If little shits like Lee Garl and Dario Mattos disagree with me. Then I am successful. It's not America's fault that you are what you are and from where you are from. Blame your parents. If you know who they are. When it comes down to it. You two are nothing but jealous little shits from 2nd rate countries. Breaks your chicken shit little hearts that you can't be the big dog on the block. Piss on you.
For your info the French were doing nothing but joining forces with us against their historical enemy. They had no noble motive except their own interests. The same as today. Merely, a stab at the British Empire. The Brits took care of them a few years later.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 12:56 AM (CBNGy)
69
FRENCH REVOLUTION: Must have something in commen with the Islamofacists. Both of you have a history of cutting innocent peoples heads off. Birds of a feather?
Cheated by our government? You must be referring to the highest standard of living in the world our government has given us.
Cheated by our educational system? Is that why our universities are filled with foreigners?
Cheated by our parents? Why? Because they were smart enough to leave dying countries like France for a better life?
Is this why the best of the world is lined up to come to America when the worst of the world is moving to France?
Piss on you, you jealous little shit.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 01:09 AM (CBNGy)
70
He may have lost his brains, but his tongue must have been transplanted from a dog. Barks to much, but doesn´t bite.
Posted by: Dario Mattos at March 11, 2005 03:10 AM (2r092)
71
Why does he piss so much, must have lost also his balls back in Viet Nam.
Posted by: Dario Mattos at March 11, 2005 03:13 AM (2r092)
72
Like I said: Just a jealous little shit. Probably mad because he can't get a green card.
Posted by: Greyrooster at March 11, 2005 02:07 PM (CBNGy)
73
Lee Garl: You're so typical of small minded America haters. Don't have any idea what you are talking about. To stupid to know how dumb you are.
Puerto Rico and Texas.
For your information Puerto Rico keeps voting to stay part of the United States. Most of us would be more than happy to see Puerto Rico be an independent country. I don't believe they should be part of the states and don't wish to support them. However they are to smart to leave the money train.
Texas was a republic that gained its independence from Mexico on its own. They then, as a free republic joined the United States. There were as many texans of Mexican descent as Anglo descent in the quest for freedom from Mexico.
So screw you on your lack of knowledge.
What wonderful countries are Lee Garl and this Mattos charactor from?
Or are you to cowardly and ashamed of your countries that you hide them while attacking mine.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 02:22 PM (CBNGy)
74
Dario Mattos: You don't have to answer. I've already figured that you are a dog eater. Look around your country real close. You'll find many little bastards that look just like me. Which is a lot better that you little half men commies.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 02:37 PM (CBNGy)
75
And I piss so much because there are so many of you little commie animals to piss on.
You so pissed on.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 02:40 PM (CBNGy)
76
You likey buy sister? She so horny. Love you long time Joe. She likey everything.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 02:43 PM (CBNGy)
77
I know why he is known as Gayrooster, he lost his balls in Nam, and became one of those guys without their manhood.
Posted by: Dario Mattos at March 18, 2005 12:37 PM (2r092)
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. Please, name any terrorist action worldwide sponsored by Saddam Hussein in the last 15 years. None ? Uhhh, some arguememts are so naif.
Al Qaeda has a new internet based magazine, one that is sure to give Martha Stewart's Living a run for its money. Guardian:
Our allies in the Global War on Terror have finally convicted Abu Bakar Bashir (Ba'asyir), the mastermind of the Bali nightclub bombing, to a lengthy sentence. What does the mass murder of 202 infidels get you in Indonesia? 30 months.
