1 All aid given to the so-called "Palestinians" only serves the PROVEN purpose of fueling the fire of hate and violence directed toward Israel.We would all be better off in the long term to cease all aid to the "Palestinians" till we can actually have control over where and what it is used for.Corruption within the leadership of the "Palestinians" has already pissed away the billions of $ they have been given.Its time to call a spade a spade and adjust our actions toward a more fruitful outcome.

2 Yep got to call em on it. Got to pay a bit of lip service to Israel so's it don't look like were picking on Palestine. I think we have been puttng some pressure in Israel due to the whining about us pushing them out of the occupied areas. Heard some the US made us do that stuff, you bet we did. Now we just need to make the other side TKOB or else do it ourselves. Can't really fault Israel for taking out Hamas. But really we need to demand that Palestine do these things. When Israel has to it they turn and use it against them. And yes we may have to use the purse strings here and there. No sense getting nothing for our money. so I think I've been fair here. Hold both sides to it. Then publicly scold whomever fouls up and send that money to LA or Bama.

3 Does anyone in their right mind think Abbas has any control over Hamas? They flaunt their weapons right in front of the Palestinian Police, and have engaged in gun battles with the police. As a matter of fact, Hamas is the real power in the Gaza strip and they have Abbas for their useful idiot to fool the EU and the US. FOR THE MONEY!

4 You are right JJ he has no control now. But if they want a state they have to act like one. So he had best get control in a hurry otherwise why spend another dime.

5 Howie: “So it appears the US is being fair and balanced to both sides.” Howie, Good topic. You chose your words carefully, ”it appears”. That’s all it is - an appearance. Look what we have given to Israel. U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Summary Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid?Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)? Foreign Aid Grants and Loans?$74,157,600,000?? Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)?$9,047,227,200 ??Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments ?$1,650,000,000 ??Grand Total?$84,854,827,200 ??Total Benefits per Israeli?$14,630 Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S. Aid to Israel Grand Total $84,854,827,200 Interest Costs Borne by U.S. $49,936,680,000 Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers $134,791,507,200 Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli $23,240 Not to mention the $2.6 trillion dollars that can’t be accounted for by Dr. (and Rabbi) Dov Zakheim. Any guesses as to where that money went? “As you know, the Department of Defense really is not in charge of its civilian workforce, in a certain sense. It's the OPM, or Office of Personnel management, I guess. There are all kinds of long- standing rules and regulations about what you can do and what you can't do. I know Dr. Zakheim's been trying to hire CPAs because the financial systems of the department are so snarled up that we can't account for some $2.6 trillion in transactions that exist, if that's believable. And yet we're told that we can't hire CPAs to help untangle it in many respects.” HYPERLINK "http://www.dod.gov/speeches/2001/s20010716-secdef2.html" http://www.dod.gov/speeches/2001/s20010716-secdef2.html The Pentagon is crawling with Israeli Firsters like Zakheim. So much so, that if we ever attempted to nuke Israel, the missiles would not launch, or if they did, they would make a U-turn and hit American soil. Israel gets $billions per year from us, by contrast, the last I heard, we were giving the Palestinians about $50 million per year. Israel destroys more than $50 million in Palestinian property each year, so the Palis aren’t even treading water. One of Israel’s major targets has been the Pali police force, which has been decimated. And Israel wonders why the Palis can’t police effectively. Abbas is no more responsible for the actions of Hamas, than the U.S. puppets in Iraq are responsible for the actions of the insurgents. The Road Map has Israel giving the Palis the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. As soon as the Israelis abandoned Gaza they began building more settlements in the West Bank, which is contrary to the Road Map. Good luck holding Israel’s feet to the fire. You can’t out Jew, a Jew and you damn sure can’t out Jew, Israel.

6 howie, perhaps you should look into exactly what the US receives for much of the money that is 'guaranteed loans' to Israel. It might change your mind about some of the rather unfair things you've written here about Israel.

7 "Gauranteed loans to Israel" my ass. Gauranteed by the American Taxpayers!

8 "rather unfair things you've written here about Israel." Howie didn't say anything unfair about Israel. But I will. Fuck those bastards. We ought to just invade Israel and take care of this cancer that has metastasized into a GWOT once in for all. First we've got to purge all those fucking Israeli Firsters and End Times wackos from the DOD so they won't fuck us up from within. alright Bubbe Schwartsteingoldenstein?

9 Greg, You are absolutely frickin crazy! Don't ever call anybody a fascist or Hitler again!

10 JJ, Pull your head out of your ass.

11 Oh, Greg, by the way, how are you feeling about Jamie Gorelick right about now? It seems certain people in the Clinton Administration knew about Atta and the NYC terrorist cell, but prevented the news from reaching the FBI. Louis Freeh, the former FBI director said he would have acted on this information had it reached him, and the destruction of NYC and the GWOT would never have happened. This should make you very happy, because I have seen you say many times that their was a 9/11 conspiracy, and I didn't believe you, but now I will have to say you were right in this case. Congratulations, Greg!

12 You're probably not even aware that AIPAC is currently being investigated in the biggest espionage case since John Pollard gave our nuclear secrets to Israel who promptly sold them to the Soviet Union in exchange for lax emigration rules for Russian Jews wanting to move to Israel. We're still paying for that one. It's embedded in that dinasour of a National Debt that we've all been yoked to. Here's the pussy, Israeli, version of the story: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/631009.html And here is an honest to God analysis by Justin Raimondo, a conservative American. http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7454 Both sides of the story. Take your pick.

13 Amen JJ and congratulations on your baby step. Members of both parties are involved in that conspiracy and in the OK City bombing and the 1st WTC bombing, which were Clinton's. When you arruve at that conclusion, we can have an honest conversation.

14 arrive, Damn, Damn, Damn.

15 After the first Gulf War, Bush (41) repatriated a couple of thousand Proletarian Gaurds to OK City. They had apparently been apart of a breakaway group that essentially surrendered before the war even started. During the Clinton administration the bombing occured and a John Doe #2 was spotted who was reported to of middle eastern decent. There are two videos that Attorney David Schippers is after, either of which would corroborate this (Schippers, you'll recall, prosecuted Clinton during the impeachment hearings). He has been representing an OK City newswoman that has evidence that a group of OK City Iraqi's were involved since 1995. Schippers was interviewed by Alex Jones. Jones does attempt to steer him in the interview, but Schippers is no lightweight. You don't have to read Alex's comments, but do read what Schippers has to say. Schippers has gone nowhere in the MSM. The OK City newswoman's station originally ran with the story, then abruptly fired the woman and cleaned their website of any reference to the story. http://www.infowars.com/transcript_schippers.html

16 was he the smoking gun, on the grassy knoll greg?

17 Greg, we're ready to believe you.

18 okay, this may be OT, but i recently read some editorials in a New York Post paper, it concerned the Israelie pullout in Gaza and sadly enough, but not too surprising to me as most of the writers are from NYC, they all blamed the situation on Israel...the Palisimians are innocent according to these idiots{probally all related to Greg....oh,a big Heil Hitler to you Fuhrer Greg, you lowly cellar dwelling C.H.U.D.}...i guess it ties in with the topic here as we see how Fuhrer Greg here tries to blame everything from Aids to the Fall of Rome on the Jews somehow....it must be a sad and lonely world down there in the sewers, eh Mein Fuhrer Greg???

19 Greg has come undone. Dude you have lost it.

20 So let me ask you this, Casper the Ghost: What happened to all the money every other country, in Europe and elsewhere, gave to the Palestinians? Huh? So their chances of success in pulling themselves out of the stone age is based solely on how much money is given to them by the US? Get on Google and see how many countries have given aid to the Palestinians over the last twenty years and how many gave to the Israelis. You're the one with your head up your ass. Nice how you phrased your statement based on US aid and never mention all the money squandered, stolen and otherwise misspent by the Palestinians that was given them by so many other countries. Oh and Suha! Don't forget her 60 million or so annual payments. And before you start your useless twaddle again, let me tell you that no matter what you say, you have put forth too many whacked out conspiracies here for anyone to take you seriously. And your hate speech is abhorrent. Yes, I believe the Palestinian people need a state, they need an identity, but as long as the Hamas psychopaths are running the show, it's not going to happen. You need a serious dose of reality to understand that. Your loyalties always seem to lie with the tyrants and psychos. While you gleefully berate the US for taking out Saddam, a murderous tyrant, you think it's a good idea to take out Israel and leave another tyrannical group in power. After your silly little, "Fuck those bastards," outburst I have no desire to listen to another word you say. So cram it.

21 Oh shuck Off, Oyster and the rest of you brain washed semitophiles. You're too damn lazy to listen to Schippers, who has impeccable credentials.

22 Easy greg sorry I temped you with Israel. I don't feel I said anything unfair about Isreal. They are a state and should be treated like any other state. I don't hate em. Nothing of the sort but if you are going to mediate you have to take a balanced approach. There is already a perception that the US is Israels lap dog. I would much rather they be our lap dog. You can't let them by with stuff just because they are who they are. You got to be objective. Imagine they are russia or france or any other state and act in that manner. I'm not saying you have to be mean to em. On the other hand you have to keep the pressure on palestine. If we are unwilling to look objetively at the deal and be fair and even which means we might have to smack a hand or two now and then we should get out and let the UN try. Oh wait they made this mess by forcing the brits out before the time had come. Now of course greg hates em and can't resist going offf on em. I just want to see the shit fixed. Been going on 50 years as a waste of time and money if we are the worlds last remaining superpower we should fisk this. Not against the wall good idea worked in Germany. Not against Israel killing terrorists. My main point is that Palestine needs to TKOB and Isreal needs to be careful. Our President said so and I know lots of people don't quite agree with him lately but if he is working on this I'll support it. So if you want to say someone is being unfair to Isreal say it's Bush. I'm just going along with his game plan which is to put pressure on both sides. Greg one post was too long. also do a percent if you are above 20 % on a thread get the idea. I'm watching. I knew you would be temped be good. and try and be somewhat civil.

23 What you don't understand, Greg, is there's a huge leap between saying, "The government knew about 9/11 before it happened," and saying, "The DIA or some in the Pentagon knew that Atta and possibly three others were in the country and up to something and if the proper attention were paid, something like 9/11 could have been avoided." And your mantra for some time now has been the former. We all already learned, shortly after the fact, that there was a glut of information on many issues (not just 9/11) that hadn't been passed on from one department to another and that there was a possibility such information could have prevented 9/11, but to say all the dots had been connected beforehand and someone knew they would specifically fly planes into buildings and that there was a mass conspiracy to let it occur is a stretch. That lack of cooperation between departments was, and still is, being addressed. That is something that has to be considered as well when delving into such issues. It's disingenuous and irresponsible to take such a complicated issue and shorten it to sound like something it simply isn't. I apologize for being a twit, but you are so infuriating. You have a tendency to just leap off the conspiracy cliff without applying some common sense to the way you just repeat what you hear. Use your own head to glean fact from fiction. It's just like back in high school and hearing rumors about other kids and repeating it verbatim. As they say, there's always a little truth to rumor, but we must use our own powers of reasoning to understand how much of anything is really true.

24 I don't hate Jews, I hate Israel and the Israeli/U.S. relationship. I have plenty of Jewish friends, two of which are life-long friends. Israel's Ziocons are the new fascist Nazis. They learned well from their German masters.

25 Hey how come the ghost guy can post as many numbers as he did ? I thought no one liked math ? what i would have liked to see is how much total aid per israeli verses per palestinian. MSM has always been pro israeli.

26 John R, There about 5 million Palestinians in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. We have been giving them $50,000,000 per year. That's $10 per Pali per year. Compare that to the $4 billion per year (conservative figure) that we give to Israel. That's about $1000.00 per Israeli Jew per year. You're right about thhe MSM being pro-Israel. The NYT reports the deaths of Israeli children 7 times more than it reports the death of Palistinian children. Even though, 10 times as many Pali kids are killed per year than Isreali kids. The bias is therfore quantifiable. It is a 70-fold bias.

27 Mr Ghost, Should they (Palestine) not also have to show thye do a good job with the money as well. I see your point but just giving them 4 bil all at once makes me a bit nervous. Can't let it backflow to Hamas or other terrorists. Still proably tough for Palestine to get after em without some help. My worrie is that the PA won't get the job done. Some idiot will blow himself up. Israel will over react knowing full well that's exactly what the terrorists want then boom right back where we started

28 Nope not going to edit that dude.

29 Howie, There are those on both sides who don't want any compromise. Witness the assassination of Rabin. We should attempt to marginalize these elements. Ironically, Hamas, which is loosely related to the Muslim Brotherhood, is a creation of Israel's meant to factionalize the PLO. Now the hens are coming home to roost (Doesn't that always happen?) "Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies." GO HORNS, GO STROS!

30 Ghost: The islamofacists of the muslim world are my enemy. The Jews are their enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. For now.