1 FYI, That guy in the Saddam capture pic was an Iraqi expat/exile working as a contractor (interpreter) for the US Army. HE's "from" St. Louis and is a mechanic by vocation, I believe. He volunteered to work as an terp in gratitude of the US freeing his homeland. Indepundit has more on him.

2 Good post Vinnie!

3 Hmmmmm. While this is certainly a brilliant post (to which I plan to place a link on my blog) -- and I agree with it wholeheartedly -- it nonetheless seems unfortunate to me that not one mention was made of Michael Savage, who has been saying the same things -- virtually verbatim -- for MONTHS now on his radio show. What an odd coincidence. (Unless, of course, Savage borrowed his ideas wholecloth from you? Anything is possible, I guess.) Please don't let my quibble detract from your excellent work, but it does seem that Michael Savage is generally "blacked out" and/or ignored by much of the conservative blogosphere -- and for reasons that escape me. Full disclosure: I confess to being an unashamed Savage-phile. Superb blog, by the way: I have often seen references to your site, but ashamedly confess that this is my first actual visit! I plan to return often.

4 Gunjam, I listen to talk radio all day at work, but rarely at night. If Savage has expressed the same on his show, good on him. I can't compare what he has said to what I wrote because I haven't heard his show in a long time. That may be the reason that Mr. Savage seems to be "blacked out" on blogs. Most of us don't listen to the radio at night. But, that's just conjecture. I can only say that for sure from my own experience. If you're insinuating that I somehow "lifted" Savage's words for this post, nothing could be further from the truth. It would stand to reason that given our ideological similarities, Mr. Savage and I would have the same viewpoint regarding this. You're free to peruse the Jawa Report archives, and the archives of my own blog (click on my name) if you would like to establish a pattern of similarity between my writings and Mr. Savage's radio shows. In short, yeah, it was a coincidence. And thank you so much for the kind compliment.

5 Vinnie: We are in a war. We didn't declare this war, they did. They are Islam. Like Rusty said, Islam is not just a religion, it's an ideology, indistinguishable from Nazism, Fascism, and Japanese Militarism, even Conservatism and Libertarianism. As before, I maintain that it's up to Islam to either claim or reject the folks we're at war with as Islam, or not. But I've recently heard a lot of commentary from Muslims that they're not "on board" the recent demonstrations, so I'm not quite ready to depict every Muslim as the enemy. Nor are you, since you recognize that some of those who fight for and with us are Muslim. So the bottom line is that I don't quite know what you're saying? If it's that Islam needs to "grow up" then why not just say that, instead of all this other rigmarole? I mean, I essentially agree that it's crunch time for Islam. The truth is that the present situtaion would constitute a troubling challenge to a real department of propaganda because it's not yet all that clear who the enemy is. In the case of Japan during WWII that was easy, because it was a contest between nation states. Regardless of whether or not you were ethnic Japanese you had the choice of associating with a nation, and the choice was binding. From our perspective we can associate with the US, but the enemy isn't in that same boat. It doesn't matter to them whether their affiliation is with Iran or Somalia or Afghanistan or Iraq. Whatever's convenient. Whoever isn't on our side, is on theirs. What do the Saudi Salafists, the Iranian Mullahs, the Qutbists and the N. African Janjhaweed have in common? Only an ideological orientation, as far as I can tell. And the people in those nations that they touch are either with them, or against them. Seriously, I'm not yet at war with Islam. That's their choice, not mine... and I'm not second-guessing them. As a point of instruction, at the beginning of the Civil War in the US Lincoln did not attack Fort Sumpter. Instead he simply announced that he was sending a detachment to replenish supplies at the fort. He knew the people that he sent on that mission would probably die, but chose to allow the enemy to be the aggressor. And the strategy worked, for Davis could not allow the garrison at Sumpter to be re-provisioned. People are currently choosing sides, and it behooves us to be mindful of that. Not everyone in the Arab world is on the side of "the street." If we were a bit more mindful of the cautious and wise path that Lincoln took to war, the conflict itself might be shorter and the outcome better. So, to reiterate, we aren't quite at war with Islam just yet. We're at war with a quasi-Marxist ideology that likes to think of itself as Islam... a fact to which many Muslims, and not so few Westerners, need to awaken. Or to put it another way, a genuine clash of civilizations isn't something that will benefit any of us very much. In fact it'll probably kill 20% of us. And for my part I'd rather skip that if at all possible, while (of course) killing every jihadist we can lay our hands on.

6 Same problem, same solution. The fact that Vinnie and Mr. Savage are independantly coming to the same conclusion just makes me think that they are both on the right track.

7 Vinnie, Thank you for your reply. I accept at face value your assertion that you have never heard Savage hold forth on this subject. It is, perhaps (as REMF suggests in his comment), a classic example of "great minds think[ing] alike." At any rate, keep on saying it! Regards, gunjam

8 Hey Gunjam.. I love Michael Savage. He is truly a beacon of light to many people out there. I love this site too. Excellent writers and thinkers here. Great post Vinnie. And please keep posting. This needs to be brought to a head.. and better sooner than later. It's nice to see people standing together. I do a lot of jousting on the yahoo boards and I haven't see so much unity between conservatives and liberals since 9/12. The world finally is awake to the scourge that is upon us.

9 By the way, if you check the records, I believe that you will find that some Germans (and, possibly, even some Italians) WERE interned in connection with WWII! I personally knew an old German immigrant who was jailed briefly during WWI, as well! -- gunjam

10 Demosophist, we are at war with Islam. Rather, Islam has been at war with us, the kuffar,for 1400 years. It has had its ebbs and flows, but it has never stopped. So as far as taking the cautious and wise approach to war, it's irrelevant. War was thrust upon us. Do you think, Demosophist, that just because you don't believe we're at war with Islam, that that absolves you from being a kafir? Do you think a moderate Muslim, in a Muslim country, would stick his neck out to save yours? Maybe in Iraq, but that's not a given. Do you hear an outcry from moderate Muslims over how non-muslims are treated in Saudi Arabia, or Iran? Bear in mind that one is Arab, and the other Aryan. Yet both are Muslim, and both treat the kafir the same. Personal anecdotes about individual Muslims not being on board with the current are all fine and dandy, but, I take you back to WWII. Col. Von Stauffenberg and his co-conspirators were all loyal members of the Nazi party, yet somehow they decided it would be a good idea to assassinate Hitler. Many individual Nazis weren't onboard with the thousand year Reich. Many individual Communists weren't on board with the Soviet Union's quest for global domination. Many Japanese nationalists more than likely opposed watching their sons die in order to build the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. Remember too that prior to Hitler's invasion, he and Stalin were quite cozy together. German Nazism, Soviet Communism, Italian fascism, and Japanese militarism were all pretty much the same ideology. Different nations and races coming together with similar viewpoints and a similar goal. Today it's happening again. Only it is Islam that binds these nations, and their people. Islam not just as a religion, but as an ideology, a social structure that binds their lives on a day to day basis. Therefore, I will not hesitate to post what I post, and write what I write, in the vein of those who made the poster in that graphic I posted. We are at war, the enemies are Muslims, and if I offend good Muslims in order to vilify the bad, so be it. If they want to not be offended, they need to take charge, speak up, and reform their religion. A religion that has undergone no serious reformation, I might add, since its inception 14 centuries ago. I linked to the post by Patrick entitled "Islam Grow Up." I didn't say it myself.

11 Vinnie: Demosophist, we are at war with Islam. Rather, Islam has been at war with us, the kuffar,for 1400 years. It has had its ebbs and flows, but it has never stopped. What do you mean by "we" Kimosabe? Perhaps in a purely theoretical sense that's true, but a lot of nutty stuff is true in that same theoretical or philosophical sense. My Arkansas hillbilly ancesters weren't at war with Islam, nor was Islam at war with them. They were at war with the antebellum South and slavery. Moreover, in that theoretical sense every nation state is in a condition of perpetual war with every other nation state since both are theoretically sovereign. And for the same reason every man is at war with every other man, so long as they refuse to designate an authority over both to resolve disagreements or clashes. None of this justifies hatred, and it probably justifies at least some degree of humility. Do you think, Demosophist, that just because you don't believe we're at war with Islam, that that absolves you from being a kafir? Do you think a moderate Muslim, in a Muslim country, would stick his neck out to save yours? Maybe in Iraq, but that's not a given. I don't really know how far I'd trust anyone to stick their neck out for me, but I know at least one Muslim who I'd trust in that regard. Seriously, what sort of argument is that? Are you saying that Islam drives out humanity in humans? Not in my experixence. To the extent that Islam is vulnerable to a totalitarian mindset that's true, but the whole point of the project in Iraq was to leaven the loaf with something other than totalitarian salafist ideology. If you don't think that was a worthy project then why have you supported the Iraq War? I mean, we might well fail... but giving a big shove in that direction hardly seems enlightened or wise. Remember too that prior to Hitler's invasion, he and Stalin were quite cozy together. German Nazism, Soviet Communism, Italian fascism, and Japanese militarism were all pretty much the same ideology. Different nations and races coming together with similar viewpoints and a similar goal. The common thread was the German Counterenlightenment, and the same thing applies to Qutbism or Salafism. Different fathers, but the same mother. They represent attempts to infuse a vulnerable faith (because it's unreformed) with those poisonous Hegellian concepts, so the appropriate way to deal with the problem is to highlight the contamination. Or to put it differently, if you're inclined to think the problem lies with ancient Islam then the appropriate method is to "contaminate" it with the Enlightenment, thus either killing or taming it. A lot less costly than global war. Today it's happening again. Only it is Islam that binds these nations, and their people. Islam not just as a religion, but as an ideology, a social structure that binds their lives on a day to day basis. Actually the Philange is a better example of a religion manifested as an ideology, but the Phalange was tamed and now represents a fairly unremarkable Christian Democrat Party in Spain. Take a deep breath. All out global war will just ruin your day, and it'll catch up to you even if you don't embrace it should the effort to avoid it come to naught. Therefore, I will not hesitate to post what I post, and write what I write, in the vein of those who made the poster in that graphic I posted. We are at war, the enemies are Muslims, and if I offend good Muslims in order to vilify the bad, so be it. If they want to not be offended, they need to take charge, speak up, and reform their religion. A religion that has undergone no serious reformation, I might add, since its inception 14 centuries ago. I agree with most of this, though I've never been able to suss out the relationship between Islam and a Reformist movement very well. It's like making a glove for a hand with six fingers. Strictly speaking Shi'ia was the Reform movement, at least according to Ernest Gellner... the problem being that the Reformation never ended. From his perspective islam has been in perpetual reform for about 12 centuries, but a winner was never declared. Things don't settle down until there's a winner. The irony is that Gellner thought Iran might actually signal the end of the struggle, with the establishment of a Shi'a ecclesiastical hierarchy similar to catholicism... giving the Reformers something to push against and ultimately displace. (Gellner: Conditions of Liberty) Anyway, to sum up: 1. If "the project" fails then global war will come without our encouragement, and nothing we can do will stop it. Moreover, the project itself will prepare us, militarily and culturally, for that eventuality, should it prove unavoidable. Whatever technological advances enhance the ability to exclude "collateral damage" in targetting can be used even more effectively to create it. So we aren't losing much by making the effort. 2. But while we still have some degrees of freedom left we can choose to use them wisely, because the cost of not doing so is pretty damn steep.

12 The wonderful graphic available at the site below will be the perfect going away preasent for any Muslim of your choice. Or you could simply print the graphic and leave it hanging on an undecorated public wall for many Muslims to see as they pass by on the way to their prayers. http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/ The comments section is a bonus.

13 It's late, so let me sum up your summation: 1. If "the project" fails then global war will come without our encouragement, and nothing we can do will stop it. Moreover, the project itself will prepare us, militarily and culturally, for that eventuality, should it prove unavoidable. Whatever technological advances enhance the ability to exclude "collateral damage" in targetting can be used even more effectively to create it. So we aren't losing much by making the effort. 2. But while we still have some degrees of freedom left we can choose to use them wisely, because the cost of not doing so is pretty damn steep. Translation: I love you Vinnie. You say the things I wish I could say, but I'm too chicken to.

14 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2024352,00.htm the police even allow our homegrown terrorists to threaten us in the street nowadays.........

15 Demosophist, you have a tendency to way over analyze what others say at times and end up coming to nearly the same conclusion after much wending and swaying along the way. Take, for instance, Vinnie's comment: "Demosophist, we are at war with Islam. Rather, Islam has been at war with us, the kuffar,for 1400 years. It has had its ebbs and flows, but it has never stopped." Your "Arkansas hillbilly ancestors" were kuffar. You and I are kuffar. Everyone who is not Muslim is kuffar. That's who "we" are in Vinnie's comment. Your ancestor's fight with the antebellum South was a segue. And a big one, too. Unless I'm just not cerebral enough to see some point you were making there. I think you make some valid points, but you sure know how to take the long and winding road to get there.

16 Vinnie communism and nazism were always mortal enemies, not widthstanding any treaties that they may have signed with each other.