1 This was never practiced during the days of our Prophet (SAW). He explicity asked us to pray as we have seen him pray. Was he ever lead by a female in prayer? Hadith is there to help us follow the Prophet (SAW)'s lifestlye and to help guide us in life. He was the most upstanding Muslim, and the safest way to stay on the correct path is to do as the Prophet (SAW) did. InshAllah Amina Wadud will repent for her mistake, and will no longer commit such acts of blasphemy. Those who argue that times have chanced...all I can say is that Islam is everlasting and not bound by time. The word of Allah and the teachings of his Prophet (SAW) are for all the ages, through all of time. Anyone who believes the opposite surely has little respect for our creator and his gift to us that is Islam.

2 Has it ever crossed your mind that Muhammad was a human being, and as a human being, he wasn't perfect, that he had biases and carried cultural baggage in the form of traditions? Perhaps those traditions were so chauvinistic that he couldn't help but shush his wives.

3 jacquelina i suggest u develop ur understanding if islam before u make pathetic remarks about the prophet (peace be upon him). it is clear u are not a follower so do us a favour and keep ur blasphemous remarks out if this discussion.The phophet (peace be upon him) was the best example for mankind and perfect in every way. period.Therefore this discussion is based on what is permissable and not according to the Sunnah (the prophet's time). certaintly it is not an invitation for You (a nobody) to comment on Muhammad pbuh, the best example to mankind. end.

4 it is a clear cut case..."fain tanaza'tum fi syaiin farudduhu ila Allaha wa Rasulihi" (in case where there is disagreement among you in any matter, refer back to Quran and Sunnah". in one of the hadith of Prophet (pbuh), "sollu kama raaitumuuni usolli" (pray as how you see I prayed). another hadith of Prophet (pbuh), "faman ghaghibi annis sunnati, falaisa minni" (whoever against or hate my sunnah, they are not my followers). this is a very basic principle in usul al-fiqh (islamic jurisprudence). think about it.end.wallahu a'lam.

5 Dear Fans of Muhammad, 1) I am NOT a nobody. I exist. That is enough to not be a nobody. 2) I will NOT keep my opinions to myself. Kaffirs have a right to speak their minds about Muhammad once they learn about him. 3) Muhammad was a product of his time. His chauvinism was milder than that of his culture, but it was chauvinism nonetheless. Also, Muhammad didn't drive, watch TV, use electricity, and wave American flags. He never went to Spain (although it was theoretically possible in that day and age). 4) "Blasphemous" remarks have a place in this discussion. They have a right to be heard, just as Islamic remarks are. You don't have to agree with me. But just whining about the remarks being blasphemous is not going to keep them out of the conversation. Offer up sound reasoning about your opinions, on why you feel Muhammad is the best example for humankind, and I might add my two cents. 5) I submit to you that, regardless of what Muhammad (pbuh) said about being the last Prophet, that Amina Wadud (pbuh) is the next Prophet.

6 I made that last statement to be provocative. I know that no Muslims would believe that statement. I probably don't believe it myself. But it's about as reasonable as yours, given that you base your arguments on faith. As for what Wadud herself says: http://almusawwir.org/amina.html

7 i say when wadud is dead SHOOT JAQALINA. ill tell u why, waste of space, U SOUND LIKE A 50 YEAR OLD WRINKLED UP WOMAN, BUT B4 U TAKE DA P*** OUT OF MY WRITING IM TWICE HALF UR AGE. U DONT KNW NUFFIN ABOUT OUR PROPHET,AS FAR AS I CAN SEE UR MIND IS FULL OF RUBBISH. U MAKIN STUPUD STORIES ABOUT OUR PROPHET AND WHAT HIS LIFE WAS ABOUT. U DONT F***** KNW NUFFFIN, I C U HAV NO RELIGON BUT IT DONT MEAN THAT EVER1 WILL B LIKE U. U ARE ONE OF THE MOST STUPID WOMEN ON EARTH THAT MAKES REMARKS ABOUT STUFF THAT DUZENT EVEN EXIST IN THE RELIGON. U SEM TO BE LOW LIFE TRYING TO SUCK UP TO WADUD WELL SHE AINT GONNA GIV YA EXTRA BUCKS FOR LIKIN HER ASS. NITHER U AINT GONNA CHANGE NO ONES POINT OF VIEW ABOUT ISLAM. IF U THINK THAT PPL WILL BELIEVE UR COMMENTS THEN THEY MUS BE ANOVA ZERO METER DODO LIK U. DONT KNW HOW MANY TIMES UR MOTHER GAVE BIRTH TO YA BUT LOOKS LIKE UR DAD DID HER EVERY CENTURY, AND U POPPED OUT EVERY CENTURY TO INFORM US WHAT USE TO HAPPEN THE CENTURY B4. COZ LOOKING AT UR STUPID DISCUSSIONS U SEEM TO BE DISCUSSIN ABOUT THE PROPHETS AND HIS WIVES. WHO DA HELL ARE U TO STATE THAT WADUD IS THE NEX PROPHET, I KNOW U R ANOTHER BUSH BUT LISTEN STUPID JAQAKLINA OR WHATEVA DA NAME, U AINT NO GOD. ONLY GOD SENDS PROPHETS. IF U THINK U ARE, GOOD LUK TO YA. I DONT GIV 2 S**** OR FLIPPIN MONKEYS IF U AGREE OR DISAGREE WID WHAT I AM SAYIN MY AIM IS NOT TO CHANGE UR MIND BUT JUS TO TELL U HOW STUPID U ARE GRAN. U AINT LEARNT NUFFIN ABOUT THE PROPHET I FINK UR LEARNIN ABOUT UR SELF HERE, WHAT A HYPOCRIT b**** u r. BECOZ U TALK S*** U DNT KNW NUFFIN ABOUT ISLAM OR THE PROPHET, I C U HAVE NO FRIENDS THEREFOR U POP UR ASS IN HERE TO TALK SHIT THAT DONT EXIST. U MAYBE WADUDS LESBIAN PARTNER OR U MAY WORSHIP DA COW BUT UR FAKE REMARKS AINT CHANGED NO ONES THINKING ABOUT ISLAM. WEN PPL DO READ UR COMMENTS IM SURE THEY SPIT ON IT COZ I DD IT SEVERAL TIMES. LISTEN GRANDMA POST UR COMMENTS NOT ONCE, OR TWICE, BUT A BILLION TIMES. COZ U ARE RITE ANYONE TAKES PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, THEY HAVE THE RITE TO SAY WHTEVA. BUT STUPID WOMAN only take part in discussions wen u know da tru facts, not just made up ones, thats wat u seem to be doin. i bet u will reply, u may say, u knw about islam and our prophet, and that blah blah blah. BECOZ U TALK RUBBISH, PPL DNT BOTHER REPLYIN AS MANY TIMES AS U DO. COZ THEY KNOW U TALKIN BULLS***. I SUPPSE I WONT CUM BAK TO THIS SITE, BUT PPL LIK U NEED A GOOD CLEAN IN THE HEAD ABOUT ONES RELIGON. PLZ IF U DONT KNW ABOUT THE RELIGON WHY DISCUSS AND MAKE STORIES ABOUT IT.DONT U HAV ANYFINK ELS TO DO, LIK WIPE UR DOGS ASS. ONE MORE THING IN THE PREVOIUSE COMMENTS U STATED "WHAT GOOD DD SEP 11 OR 3 DO TO ISLAM" WELL STUPID WOMAN LEARN SOMETHING, NO ONE MAKES ISLAM BETTER ONLY ISLAM MAKES PEOPLE BETTER. U ARE THE RESULT FOR OUR SINS BURN IN HELL

8 amina wadud talks out of her glutius maximas and thinks she can change our religion, i don't like people of that sort and hope they get badly punished

9 amina talks s**t she bloody thinks she's the flipin queen, but get out of my ass and dont come back in you twit, bug off tworp

10 The approach that Fritz and Usman take - a death threat (w00t, that means I'm being revolutionary) and name-calling - mean that the Muslims have run out of sound arguments against my statements. Typical bully attitude: if you can't argue, then threaten violence and threaten to kill a person. I'll tell you this: murder makes martyrs. To wit: the 9/11 victims. The best thing that conservatives can do now is to leave Wadud and her ilk alone - they'll form a new sect of Islam, and America makes that possible. Any violence, and you'll bet she becomes a martyr for liberal religion. That only increases the determination of the progressives.

11 Hello I find your discussion very insightful. Jacquelina is asking some serious questions. And those who arent able to defend their faith feel that their faith is based on shaky grounds. Or arent you able to use your mind? Quran isnt ready to say you in every way of life what to do. It must be interpreted, as every written piece. Dont you think? Or do you refuse to think about this? Thank you very much

12 http://www.tenrikyo.or.jp/en/teaching/teachings/oyasama.html Hey, look, another Prophet of Allah!

13 Methinks you refuse to think about it.

14 You all will have to understand that the Holy Quran is Perfect and people's interpretations of certail metaphorical and even clear ayats that's wrong And Jacqueline if u want to learn a thing or two bout Islam..then I suggest u ask ur questions nicely coz slander won't take u anywhere Salaam

15 Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

16 Jacquelina, Mix prayers are not allowed in islam. A women can lead prayer but only to women. God wants us forget world (which is not eternal) while we bow in front of him. In case of amina wadud, she is leading prayers for both men and women touching their shoulders. This is forbidden by God because a slight desire of sex in prayers invalidates prayers and this is possible in mix prayers. Even christianity, jews, hinduism, jainism and many religions dont have female priest or a leader of prayers Y west doenst target their own religion, jews, hinduism ? y only islam

17 Brother in islam, Fritz, don't waste your time on the likes of Jacquelina, she is not worth it. I have read all of her opinions that give me the impression that she is seriously foolish or uneducated. And i totally agree with what u said. unfortunately there are some that get a kick out of manipulating the truth, and "trying" aimlessley to destroy something they dont have: IMAN AND CONVICTION. without conviction they base their argument on logic and and rationality, basically she like her fellow Americans want to see God in his true form, perhaps the Prophets (pbuh) lifestyle on dvd or vhs, before they are convinced of ISLAM. Because this is not the case with islam, and we base our devotion on the miracoulous Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet, not to mention the trust in Allah the Exhalled, these non-believers cannot comprehend this. she is not arguing right or wrong, but she is introducing the primary question: is there God, how do we know etc! As for u jaqulina sista! Don't embarrass yourself further darling cos u have made an utter fool out of urself and ur fellow nation. If you really wana involve urself on the debate of God, faith, i suggest u widen ur knowledge on faith itself, and understand life is not all about Hollywood movies and pornography! There is a way of life out there that entails conviction and faith, spirituality, and devotion to the creator of all creations- and a way of life based on the Quran and Hadiths of the prophet (pbuh) that leads to enternal hapiness in both the worlds. Go check it out. Finally

18 "Mix prayers are not allowed in islam. A women can lead prayer but only to women. God wants us forget world (which is not eternal) while we bow in front of him." And, obviously, some Muslims disagree with you, and have been citing chapter and verse of the Quran to back up their case. "In case of amina wadud, she is leading prayers for both men and women touching their shoulders. This is forbidden by God because a slight desire of sex in prayers invalidates prayers and this is possible in mix prayers." Not necessarily true. While Muhammad may have said so in the past, God might not have been speaking through Muhammad at the time; furthermore, biases of the SCRIBES of Muhammad might have further muddied up whatever Muhammad was saying. Thus, there is no evidence for the invalidation of prayers of people who are, well, horny. Call it a lie if you want to - you don't believe it anyway, but I feel differently from how Muhammad felt. I'm not God. Neither was your Muhammad. "Even christianity, jews, hinduism, jainism and many religions dont have female priest or a leader of prayers" BLATANTLY FALSE. Christianity has female ministers, and Judaism has female rabbis. Tenrikyo (a Japanese religion) was founded by a woman, and, while I don't know much about the status of women in the Vedic traditions, there were likely female shamans in many an aboriginal tradition. "Y west doenst target their own religion, jews, hinduism ? y only islam" Hinduism is not a Western religion, and, besides, Hinduism is more concerned about the fate of its caste system. As for Judaism and Christianity, they HAVE been targeted, and they HAVE been changing for several centuries already.

19 "Brother in islam, Fritz, don't waste your time on the likes of Jacquelina, she is not worth it. I have read all of her opinions that give me the impression that she is seriously foolish or uneducated. And i totally agree with what u said" I'm educated in many ways. I am educated in the Western tradition, which says to question everything, to look for proof, to leave no stone unturned. It is a dynamic kind of education, not a repetitive kind of education. And, of course, any orthodoxy goes around calling the dissenters "foolish". Nothing new here, folks. "Without conviction they base their argument on logic and and rationality, basically she like her fellow Americans want to see God in his true form, perhaps the Prophets (pbuh) lifestyle on dvd or vhs, before they are convinced of ISLAM." You misunderstand the Western way of education. To the Westerner, logic and rationality are the heart of proof. It is the foundation-stone of science. In order for an educated Westerner to have conviction, oftentimes, he or she will require proof. As for the "Prophet's life on DVD", that's obviously impossible, and so are attempts to "see God in Its true form". "Because this is not the case with islam, and we base our devotion on the miracoulous Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet, not to mention the trust in Allah the Exhalled, these non-believers cannot comprehend this. she is not arguing right or wrong, but she is introducing the primary question: is there God, how do we know etc!" Obviously, Islam will do pretty poorly in scientifically oriented non-Islamic cultures, as it is faith-based while science is evidence-based (and thus offers a closer view of the truth, by and large). "As for u jaqulina sista! Don't embarrass yourself further darling cos u have made an utter fool out of urself and ur fellow nation." In YOUR opinion. In my opinion, it's those who rely on faith without looking at the evidence who are fools. And so is those folks' "fellow nation". "If you really wana involve urself on the debate of God, faith, i suggest u widen ur knowledge on faith itself, and understand life is not all about Hollywood movies and pornography!" Please. My arguments are not based on what Hollywood cranks out. They are based on the sort of thinking that American universities crank out. And, YES, this includes Comparative Religion courses, and geology, and other courses where much evidence is pointed out. And some of that evidence runs against what any religion, including Islam, has said by far in its sacred documents. "There is a way of life out there that entails conviction and faith, spirituality, and devotion to the creator of all creations- and a way of life based on the Quran and Hadiths of the prophet (pbuh) that leads to enternal hapiness in both the worlds. Go check it out." Mind if I point out that Judaism, Christianity, Tenrikyo, and spiritualism - as well as Buddhism - offer just about the same thing - a way of life that leads to eternal happiness in both the worlds - and, of course, this presumes there IS an afterlife (which at least one religion, Judaism, hasn't really decided on, and which mainstream science is skeptical about).

20 "BECOZ U TALK RUBBISH, PPL DNT BOTHER REPLYIN AS MANY TIMES AS U DO. COZ THEY KNOW U TALKIN BULLS***. " No, it's because I'm hitting "Reply" and then thinking up something new which you'd likely refer to as "bull----"....so now I have to hit post all over again. As far as I know, I've been getting responses, mostly by folks such as you who think they can bully folks into Islam. Nice try. "ONLY ISLAM MAKES PEOPLE BETTER. U ARE THE RESULT FOR OUR SINS BURN IN HELL " Obviously not. If your diatribe is any guide, it gives the impression that Islam makes people WORSE. Now, I know that Islam makes some prople better.... but so do Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. I am not the result of (or "for") anybody's sins. I am a Westerner. I don't consider myself an evil person. I don't think God does, in spite of your "evidence" to the contrary. Yeah, I have sinned, just as everyone has; however, I feel preaching in favor of liberal religion is NOT one of my sins. You may disagree. As for "BURN IN HELL", the concept of Hell has a long history, but is pretty short on concrete evidence. People (mainly Christians and liberals) have had near-death experiences and put them on record (the concentration of kaffirs and dhimmis is due to the prevalence of Christianity and reasons in the countries the researchers studied), and found the following: about a third or so had an NDE, the vast majority of which showed peace and bliss; there was a rare "hellish" experience every once in a while. (And, mind you, those are NOT Muslims!) Others have had weirder experiences (such as seeing a "giant disembodied hand", but not very many actually saw anything like hellfire. Perhaps hell is a more prevalent vision in Indonesia; culture may well play some kind of a role in how people experience death - but the Quran and Sunnah appear to be but one of a number of possible causes in play here. Perhaps hellfire-and-brimstone preachers are responsible for the largest contributions of lost souls to hell (after all, they preach it so much that it becomes expected by individuals). This cultural nature of death is another reason why scientists are skeptical about there being an afterlife. Also, lobotomies show that different parts of the brain house different parts of one's mind, or soul, and it's apparently possible to prevent communication between part of one's mind and another part with the use of a knife.

21 I might add: Read Kant and you wont need religion. Yes, there is morality without god/allah. In fact such a concept is misleading in finding the right ethics. Life is too complex for only one book.

22 Just in case anyone's still listening: http://www.faithfreedom.org/faq.htm see here, all religions are false, so there.

23 TO JAQUELINA, i would just like to point out that despite your attempts to give a another insight to Islam, as a muslim myslef and reading this discussion, i am not moved or influeneced by your opinions in any way. My faith to me, in fact has become more clear that sadly there are none-beleievers out there that are so desperate to destroy soemthing so beautiful. Primarily, your perspective to islam from a "science point of view" and the "possibilities of misunterpretation from the Prophets" is a reccurent arguemet that boils back to "how do we know there is God etc". To this question, Muslims have the Word of God in the Quran, that its laws and teachings are the safest way to succeed in this life and the hearafter. We believe that this book is a guide to live our life, for we are weak as humans, despite having a brain, god has urged us to witness his signs, which tells us everything that happened in the past, to the prediction of what is to come. in short the Quran is a miracle, And my God, is it spot on! You have to comprehend this before you can progress onto developing respect for this way of life, you simply cannot use "science" or "Western way of interrogation" to reduce this concept. It is your agument against mine that Muhammad was the final messenger of God, (PBUH), an argument that no doubt will continue throughout time. But please, do not argue your case by starting with "what if" what if the quran was misunterpreted, what if there are flaws in the Quran.....etc. remember "looking for alternatives" is another theory, and by no means a method through which religion can be filtered to be "proved or disproved". Islam may be a "myth" to non-muslims, but to muslims it is the truth.how can you urge muslims to "interrogate this truth" when God has told us to have belief, and shown us signs? do u undersatnd this? Your beliefs by no means gives you authority to assess islam through your way of thinking, this is why none-beleivers will always remain proud that islam is "just a myth" "misnderstood" etc, because you assume that you have that authority to dictate your views over everything else. All you have done is reitterted the concept of "Questioning and open to interpretation", which in islam can be applied to everthing BUT the laws of Allah, As Allah created man, so Allah knows what his creation does not know. So please jacquelina, have some respect for other ways of thinking, because you have continuosely emphasised the need to "look for possibilites", take a leaf out of your own book, because it seems as though you cannot/dont wish to respect that Islam is the truth for Muslims, despite what none-believers say, and it is not there to be manipulated.

24 well guys to be honest first of all, there is a very logical reason to why women in islam are not allowed to lead the prayers.And it has nothing to do with male chavinisum or anything ..just consider this example, whenever in an areobic class u have a female instructor, half of the men just stare at her body like pervets .. rather then doing wat they r meant to do ..when a women leads a prayer in a mix congregation , some men might behave in a disrespectful manner , even if they do it unintentioanlly , it will harm their original intent of paryers as well , hence they wont get the just reward as well..the reason is as simple as that , its all about given a women her due respect and maintaining grace.. as far as i remeber in the old english culture it was even considered unrespectful for a women to dismound a horse in front of a man .. so why when it comes to islam all these common sense approach changes , most of the feakin westren media just brands it as women being treated as inferior...when actually its all about maintainings a women grace , it has nothing to do with a women's place in an islamic society , she is still a strong member at her house and in her life as well.. this wadud lady just is another wanna be , just wait she will end up like many other who tried to mould this religion for their own ease.

25 dear readers.. things are going according to God's will and plan. the late Rashad Khalifa accalimed his prophecy in the mid-eighties last century. he was advocating for women to be imams, etc. what recently happened in vew york city is not new and won't be the last trial for women to invent and do whatever thei minds can create. the truth always prevails and stays high. Islam will be kept intact till the end of this world, like it or not. Any invention or innovations in this religion will die as soon as it comes up. thanks.

26 Dear brothers/sisters in Islam, I would like to quote you a hadith right now. Please take something out of it.... "....When ever there was a quarrel/dispute, the Prophet (PBUH) would leave that gathering...." As individuals, we are not suppose to protect Islam, Allah (SWT) protects it as He (SWT) has given muslims that promise. I would encourage my self and then my brothers/sisters to be practising muslims. This is the only way to clear Jahiliyah. We, as muslims, can't blame any of the non-muslims because they are misguided. They believe in giving in to their own desires as being liberation and view being naked as fashionable. Please utilize your time wisely and don't participate in these type of forums, especially when the party asking these questions has no clue about Islam. Just my one cent. Assalam-u-alaikum.

27 Question On March 18, 2005 Amina Wadud led the first female-led Jumu`ah Prayer. On that day, women took a huge step towards being more like men. But, did we come closer to actualizing our God-given liberation? Date 2005/3/28 Name of Consultant AAI Editorial Staff Content of Reply This answer was kindly provided by Sister Yasmin Mogahed, a member of Ask About Islam Editorial Staff. Yasmin is an Egyptian-American journalist based in Wisconsin, USA. She is currently studying for a Master's degree in Journalism. Salam, Sarah. Thank you for your inspiring question! Well, answering your question, I can say that I don't think so. What we so often forget is that God has honored women by giving them value in relation to God-not in relation to men. But as Western feminism erases God from the scene, there is no standard left but men. As a result, the Western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing, she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man-the standard. When a man cut his hair short, she wanted to cut her hair short. When a man joined the army, she wanted to join the army, and so on. She wanted these things for no other reason than because the "standard" had it. What she didn't recognize was that God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness, not their sameness. And on March 18, Muslim women made the very same mistake. For 1,400 years, there has been a consensus of scholars that men are to lead Prayer. As a Muslim woman, why does this matter? The one who leads Prayer is not spiritually superior in any way. Something is not better just because a man does it. And leading Prayer is not better just because it is leading. Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn't the Prophet have asked Lady `A'ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah-the greatest women of all time-to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led Prayer. But now, for the first time in 1,400 years, we look at a man leading Prayer and we think, "That's not fair." We think so, although God has given no special privilege to the one who leads. The imam is no higher in the eyes of God than the one who prays behind. On the other hand, only a woman can be a mother. And the Creator has given special privilege to a mother. The Prophet taught us that heaven lies at the feet of mothers. But no matter what a man does, he can never be a mother. So why is that not unfair? When asked who is most deserving of our kind treatment? The Prophet replied "your mother" three times before saying "your father" only once. Isn't that sexist? No matter what a man does, he will never be able to have the status of a mother. And yet even when God honors us with something uniquely feminine, we are too busy trying to find our worth in reference to men, to value it or even notice it. We too have accepted men as the standard; so anything uniquely feminine is, by definition, inferior. Being sensitive is an insult, becoming a mother is a degradation. In the battle between stoic rationality (considered masculine) and selfless compassion (considered feminine), rationality reigns supreme. As soon as we accept that everything a man has and does is better, all that follows is just a knee jerk reaction: if men have it, we want it too. If men pray in the front rows, we assume this is better, so we want to pray in the front rows too. If men lead Prayer, we assume the imam is closer to God, so we want to lead Prayer too. Somewhere along the line, we've accepted the notion that having a position of worldly leadership is some indication of one's position with God. A Muslim woman does not need to degrade herself in this way. She has God as a standard. She has God to give her value; she doesn't need a man here. In fact, in our crusade to follow men, we, as women, never even stopped to examine the possibility that what we have is better for us. In some cases, we even gave up what was higher only to be like men. Fifty years ago, we saw men leaving the home to work in factories. We were mothers. And yet, we saw men doing it, so we wanted to do it too. Somehow, we considered it women's liberation to abandon the raising of another human being in order to work on a machine. We accepted that working in a factory was superior to raising the foundation of society-just because a man did it. Then after working, we were expected to be superhuman-the perfect mother, the perfect wife, the perfect homemaker, and have the perfect career. And while there is nothing wrong, by definition, with a woman having a career, we soon came to realize what we had sacrificed by blindly mimicking men. We watched as our children became strangers, and soon recognized the privilege we'd given up. And so only now-given the choice-women in the West are choosing to stay home to raise their children. According to the United States Department of Agriculture, only 31 percent of mothers with babies, and 18 percent of mothers with two or more children, are working fulltime. And of those working mothers, a survey conducted by Parenting Magazine in 2000, found that 93 percent of them say they would rather be home with their kids, but are compelled to work due to "financial obligations." These "obligations" are imposed on women by the gender sameness of the modern West and removed from women by the gender distinctiveness of Islam. It took women in the West almost a century of experimentation to realize a privilege given to Muslim women 1,400 years ago. Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade myself by trying to be something I'm not, and in all honesty, don't want to be-a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men and value the beauty in our own God given distinctiveness. If given a choice between stoic justice and compassion, I choose compassion. And if given a choice between worldly leadership and heaven at my feet, I choose heaven. I hope my words answer your question. In case you have any comment or you need more about the topic, please don't hesitate to contact us again. Thank you and please keep in touch. Salam. Useful Links: Woman Leading Men in Prayer Women Leading Friday Prayer: AMJA's Statement

28 This is to remind you that this sort of arguments are normal 2 muslims,and we should give them no consideration; since we know our religion very well, we are pretty much confident it is the right religion and we do not need people like Wadud or Jacquelina to teach us about islam, either they are ignorant or they need to correct their "virus alike infected info" information gathered from untrusted sources. we have only one version of quran and thus a comprehensive religion unlike other religions; other than that it's all human make up, and of course we don't accept it. I am not here to argue with those people, but to say look at those who studied islam very well and know its truth, they weren't muslims b4, but since they were that much educated, they converted to islam instead, cos they have found their way to the truth, and just to mention here: Wise People Never Look at one side, they get to think, research, analyse then compare, and this is too much for an ignorant to look for, cos "what you miss, you can't give". Eventually even I oppose those comments, I believe in discussions within the boundaries of respect but not violence as this is not in islam teaching.

29 To Jacquilina ( pardon if i spell it wrong) I read your first thread ! You said that Prophet (PBUH) was a human being ! RIGHT! He was a human being. But whats different about him then if he was just like us! Quran describes it "that i'm no one but a human being like you but "wahee" (message of God to prophet) is sent to me" So what he DOES or DOES NOT was not to be treated as actions of a simple human being like us! He was given messages, orders, restrictions (like leading the prayer is not allowed for women !) by God. Your next logical question would be then why a prophet is then chosen to be a human being if he was to be only the carrier of God's messages why not an angel or some other link! Actually we forget here that 'to be guided' is not the problem of God but of us ! WE NEED TO BE GUIDED. WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG. WE NEED TO KNOW HOW TO TALK TO GOD. WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN A CHILD IS BORN WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN A PERSON DIES AND OF COURSE WE NEED TO KNOW WHETHER A WOMAN CAN LEAD THE PRAYER OR NOT. So in any of these or other conditions we need some sort of guidance. Now question arises where to get knowledge ! Are we really in need of some heavenly knowledge like that is sent from God or we can make things based on our own logic. (I come to THE POINT AFTERWARDS SO HAVE PATIENCE) Lets take an example. Scenario 1: A child is brutly wounded by a dacoit. He pulls out a knife and cuts his intestines. What will his father do when he sees all this in front of him. He will pull out his own rifle,pistol or in worst case hands out of his pockets and try to save his child in any case .... Scenario 2: The same child has some sort of gastro intestinal disturbance. A surgeon "pulls out a knife and cuts his intestines". What will his father do when he sees all this in front of him. Of course, he will pay doctor for this. What is different in the two scenarios is the PERSPECTIVE with which we see things, with which that particular child saw things and with which his father saw things. To child, both the doctor and dacoit are brutes ! To his father dacoit is brute and doctor is a messiah. So who knows better , the child or his father Of course his father. In the same way Allah , the Almighty has created us. He knows better what is right for us and what is wrong. Whether we should drink or not. Is a man allowed to marry 4 wives or more or not and if a woman can be allowed to lead the prayer. So Allah sent a prophet to us like he did before to guide us from within us so that we dont face any difficulty in understanding his language.We cant make perfect desicion about anything if we dont have the perspective of the FATHER. The best way to teach was to present a modal, and Allah did so! Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the ONE. He was the model, guided all the way by God, tracked all the way by God. So that's why we call him the PERFECT and do belive in his perfection not because he is 'surprisingly' a perfect human being but he is the prophet(PBUH) sent by God with complete guidance. So all above i explained why do we need to be,live a perfect man for perfect guidance. If you have more comments feel free to ask but as a good 'human being' you should take care of others' feelings. If you want to ask something ask in way that doesn't hurt others ! I dont think so you need any 'logical reasoning' behind that In the end i apologize if anyone is hurt and let me know so that i'll be more careful in the future. And God knows the best (Wallah o Alim bis-Sawab)

30 Benefits of Practicing lkhlas With Allah Shaykh Husayn al-Awaaishah Kitab Al-Ikhlas © 1997 The Daar of Islamic Heritage 1. The Muslim ummah will be victorious, for the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam, said, what translated means, "Allah only gives victory to this nation because of its weak ones, because of their du`aa', prayer and ikhlas." [At-Targhib wa At-Tarhib]. 2. Acquiring safety from Allah's punishment and wrath in the Hereafter. Allah said about some people who observe ikhlas, what translated means, "And they give food, in spite of their love for it (or for the love of Him), to the poor, the orphan, and the captive. (Saying), 'We feed you seeking Allah's Countenance only. We wish for no reward, nor thanks from you. Verily, we fear from our Lord a Day, hard and distressful, that will make the faces look horrible (from extreme dislikeness to it).' So Allah saved them from the evil of that Day, and gave them Nadhratan (a light of beauty) and joy. And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient." [76:8-12]. 3. Elevation to a higher grade in the Hereafter. There are many ayat and hadiths about this subject, such as the following ayah that describes the abrar (the pious). Allah said, what translated means, "So Allah saved them from the evil of that Day, and gave them Nadhratan (a light of beauty) and joy. And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining therein on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold. And the shade thereof is close upon them, and the bunches of fruit thereof will hang low within their reach. And amongst them will be passed round vessels of silver and cups of crystal. Crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure thereof according to their wishes. And they will be given to drink there a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabil (ginger, etc.). A spring there, called Salsabil. And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you vould think them scattered pearls." [76:11-19]. Also, the Messenger of Allah said, what translated means, "The first group that enters Paradise will be glittering like the moon when it is full. The following group will glitter like the brightest planet in the sky; they will neither urinate, nor answer the call of nature, nor spit, nor have any nasal secretions; their brushes will be from gold, their sweat is Misk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers, and their wives are from Hur al-`Een (Houris, female fair ones, with wide, lovely eyes). They will all look like each other, just as is the statute of their father Adam, sixty feet in the sky." [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]. 4. Safety from falling into misguidance in this dunya, that is, the life of this world. We have mentioned before example to this subject in the story of Prophet Yusuf. "Thus it was, that We might turn away from him evil and illegal sexual intercourse. Surely, he was one of our Mukhlasin (chosen, guided persons who observe ikhlas with Allah." [12:24] 5. Acquiring an increase in huda (Right Guidance), as Allah said, what translated means, "Truly! They were young men who believed in their Lord (Allah), and We increased them in guidance." [18:13]. 6. Residents of the heavens will love those who observe ikhlas. The Messenger of Allah said, what translated means, "When Allah loves a slave, He summons Jibreel, saying, 'Allah, the Exalted, loves Fulan (such and such person), so love him,' and Jibreel will love him. Then he calls upon the people of the heaven, 'Allah loves Fulan, so love him', and the people of the heaven will love him. Then acceptance (honor, content, love, etc.) will be sent down (and spread up [meaning between the community of the believers]) on earth for him." [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]. 7. Acceptance and honor for the mukhlisin, those who observe ikhlas, will be sent down and spread up on earth for them, as was mentioned in the previous hadith. 8. Having a good reputation among people, as was mentioned in the previous hadith. Also, the Messenger of Allah said, what translated means, "Each slave has a reputation in the heaven. If his reputation in the heaven is good, it will be sent down to earth (transferred as such). However, if his reputation is bad in the heaven, it will be transferred as such to the earth." [Al-Bazzar]. 9. Acquiring safety from all types of hardships and disasters in this life, as was mentioned in the story of the three persons who were trapped in the cave. 10. Achieving tranquillity in the heart and feeling joy, content and elation, for Allah said, what translated means, "Verily, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest." [13:28]. 11. Faith will be endeared to the Mukhlisin, while wickedness will be made hateful to them. Allah said, what translated means, "And know that, among you there is the Messenger of Allah. If he were to obey you (follow your opinions and desires) in much of the matter, you would surely be in trouble, but Allah has endeared the Faith to you and has beautified it in your hearts, and has made disbelief, wickedness and disobedience (to Allah and His Messenger) hateful to you. These! They are the rightly guided ones." [49:7]. We have mentioned before how Prophet Yusuf was made to hate fornication, disbelief and wickedness, and how iman was made beautiful to him, that he preferred staying in jail rather than falling into fornication and sin. 12. Allah willing, ikhlas will guide one to choose the rightly-guided company, those who observe ikhlas. The best example for this subject is that the companions of the Messenger of Allah were friends with each other as they were friends with the Messenger, and who can find a better company than the Prophet and his companions. 13. Enduring all types of hardships in this life with patience. The Messenger of Allah and his companions were excellent in this behavior, for they endured and were patient in the face of all types of hardships, and the proof to this better behavior is detailed in abundance in their seerah (life stories). 14. Acquiring the good end, as is evident from the story of the man who had killed ninety nine persons, but then sought to repent from his crimes. This person's ikhlas in seeking forgiveness from Allah guided him until he died while his heart was coming back to Allah, the Exalted. 15. Du`aa' will be accepted, as is evident from the story of the young boy, the wizard and the priest. Also, an example to this is the story of the three men who were trapped in the cave. This, indeed, is a vast subject with numerous examples testifying to the fact that ikhlas is an essential ingredient that ensures the acceptance of du`aa'. 16. Being rewarded in the grave, and receiving the glad tidings of the joy and happiness that the mukhlisin will enjoy in the grave and in the Hereafter. We have narrated the hadith by Al-Baraa' ibn `Azib which describes how one's good deeds will come in the shape of a handsome man, wearing nice clothes and whose scent is pleasing, saying, "I am your good deeds."

31 To all moslems brothers & sisters, do not waist your precious time on this unproductive issues. Amina wadud is just some women with emotive driven agenda of her pro-feminist perpective for some unproductive publicity. What kind of improvement or progress from her action towards the moslems or to the world community ? Controversy..Don't waiste your time to explain to those non believers. If they sincerely want to learn from their logic & critical thinking cap as their base argument to understand this issues, they should start with neutral perpective first instead with prejudice and falacies judgement. And please brothers, do not curse anybody even the non-believers, that is not the prophet teaching. Moslems should more focus on the Palestinians issues, economis progress, technology development instead arguing with this nonsense issue. Please..wake up..

32 I am back Jacquelina, It is wise to think before you talk. A person full of wisdom is the one who thinks before uttering anything nonsense. If you believe that amina wadud is the prophet than I have no problem with that. In fact noone should not have any problem becuase you know and I know that death will approach us all. So wait for your death. This is not a threat but a reminder because the Creator said to those who deny and utter foolishness to wait until death approaches them. It would be too late for you to change your opinion than becuase truth will be before all of us and none of us would be able to deny it. And if you have no idea what you are talking about than let me make it clear to you. If you believe amina a prophet than ask amina to perform some miracle from the Almighty Creator. Because a person cannot claim to be a prophet without a miracle sister!!! otherwise he/she would be a liar. My honest adivice to you-DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME, EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. unisys-tech, You did a great job. Well done! I really appreaciate it. fritz, Please don't dirty your tongue and make yourself a sinner before Allah swt. You (Muslims) are the best of the Creation before Allah. If these people utter something, let them. don't pay attention because you know the guidance is in the hands of Allah swt. Allah swt says they have diseases in their hearts and neither they can see or hear. So unless they themselves want and Allah swt opens for them, they will not get even point zero percent. So becareful, don't dirty yourself with dirty language brother.

33 Everyone please wake up. There is no god. Us humans are just the result of 5 billion years of evolution. You all need to face reality and be at peace with all other humans because religion means nothing.