But, but, but... (Update)
by Demosophist
Today, during a discussion on Fox News about the Iraq Election Moira Liasson objected to Brit Hume's contention that many people had been habitually skeptical about the odds of establishing a legitimate democracy in Iraq. Moira allowed that this just wasn't so, and that although many people had expressed skepticism about the details of the Bush plan nearly everyone had always had faith in the "will of all people to be free." Well, I can't speak for Liasson, nor do I know what she thought back then, but it seems to me her memory may be a bit "selective." Frankly, I don't know anyone who has more credibility with political sociologists on the topic of democratization than Amitai Etzioni, and over a year ago, back in November, 2003, I posted a comment to his blog post A Sociologist's Iraqi Exit Strategy. For documentation purposes you can find the original here, along with his response, but it's reproduced below for the sake of convenience:
I find your observations on this topic useful, but primarily as a way of motivating 'progressives' to reflect a bit on their positions. As a practical matter it is far too early to label the reconstruction effort a failure, nor is it particularly accurate to label it an 'afterthought.' One would think that had it been much more than that, that they'd have come in with a better plan, but I personally think it's more a matter of Republican naiveté about social legitimacy than the notion that the reconstruction wasn't important. In fact, for many of us the entry into the Middle East to establish a beachhead for liberal open society is at least as important as the WMD issue. I also have little confidence in the UN's ability and resolve when it comes to establishing such a beachhead, both because of the 'Euro-cocoon,' that many of the European members of the Security Council believe they are in and because the UN has no legitimacy as a democratic body.
My problem is that we appear to have a Republican administration that's willing to do the right thing, but doesn't quite know how... and a Democratic opposition that could probably muster the know-how, but doesn't want to for partisan reasons. The Democrats seem preoccupied with what I call 'little democracy,' and insist on training a microscope on those liberal societies that have already proven to be stable... just because they can. However, they neglect 'big democracy' at our peril. As for the UN and NATO, I honestly think they're not exactly the wave of the future, although the UN will survive as a kind of international debating society. What we need in their stead is some sort of deliberative body composed exclusively of democratic nations, since they together represent a cohesive 'meta-tribe' with common interests that, as a community, can probably begin to set the stage for a world absent totalitarian regimes like Iraq, Korea and Burma. They would represent a sufficiently dominant majority that those nations left outside the alliance would be compelled to liberalize in order to join the club. They'd be motivated by both pressure and attraction, or stick and carrot.
Amitai just couldn't see it:
Thanks for the very thought-provoking comments. As I see it, there is no way on earth that Iraq can be turned into anything that resembles a democracy in the immediate future (unless it is “defined down” so it does not mean a thing). It took the Brits (and us) generations; and the Iraqis are less prepared. It is not so much that the Republicans don’t how to do it – it cannot be done. Just look at our track record in third world countries.
"No way on earth." A year ago that was the standard wisdom, not only in academe, but in the derivative press establishment... so if Liasson thought differently at the time her memory is unreliable about her peers and about the "experts." But what's important isn't so much that I was right, but that Iraqis rose to the challenge that justified the faith some of us had in them... and that courageous Americans and Iraqis have paid a worthy price so that citizens of what was once the cradle of civilization could walk triumphantly to the polls today, to fulfill that ancient promise.
It would be well to remember, just for the sake of precision, that there are those whose vision fell short of their learning, and who are still inappropriately dismissive about hope that was expressed today by a people with the dragon still nipping at their heels. And it appears that Republicans have, in fact, finally been able to get the knack of the thing, shouldering a task that most Democrats seem to eschew out of some overly cultivated sense of sophistication about democracy in the small.
Update: Protein Wisdom has some observations about the impossible-but-easy nature of the problem
(Cross-posted by Demosophist to Demosophia and Anticipatory Retaliation)
Posted by: Demosophist at
09:28 PM
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1
She is just plain lieing. Back a year ago she said the Iraq situation was a "quagmire" and there would never be a valid election. Sounds like she and Boxer are a team.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at January 31, 2005 08:25 AM (fLlQ8)
2
people allways seem to forget that one basic rule, never say never....
Posted by: rumcrook at February 01, 2005 03:32 PM (KqxgH)
3
Bottom of Form 1
Dr.Shepard why is Pat O'Connor imprisoned in Israel?
Thursday, February 03, 2005
Dr. Jack Shepard asks why did the Israel's Shin Bet Intelligence Agency imprison Patrick O'Connor an American for helping Palestinian children?
Dr. Jack Shepard says why is Patrick O'Connor,
an American and British Citizen,
imprisoned by Israeli's Shin Bet Intelligence Agency for help Palestinian Children!
________________________________________
His letter from Maasiyahu Prison can be read below!____________________________________________________________________
Patrick O'Connor has also worked for Save the Children.
Save the Children works by preventing children and young people
from coming to further harm, through child protection activities.
.....................................................................
Below you can read Patrick O'Connor's letter
from Maasiyahu Prison
about his arrest and interview
by Isreal's Shin Bet intelligence Agency.
...................................................................................
Patrick O'Connor worked with Palestinian children in Gaza. Recently the Israeli authorities have begun searching for and arresting experienced International Solidarity Movement (ISM) and international activists.
My arrest and attempted deportation is another example of this.
Evidently the Israeli authorities find nonviolent resistance and active support of Palestinian rights to be threatening.
Despite claims to the contrary, they have adopted an unstated goal of breaking down and eliminating the ISM and other groups using nonviolence to support Palestinian rights.
During the past three years over 100 ISMers have been denied entry and 62 deported.
At the same time Israeli authorities have launched a propaganda campaign against ISM and other activists, with attempts to falsely link them with terrorism.
My recent interrogation by the Shin Bet shed some light on the tactics.On the morning of January 25th I was taken from a Ben Gurion airport detention center to Maasiyahu prison in Ramle.
I was put in a 20 foot by 10 foot cell with six other men served with deportation orders. After a few hours I was called from my cell without explanation.
My legs were cuffed together and I was led out of my section to another building. I was taken into a room with two men in plainclothes.
They closed the door, searched me thoroughly, and then set me down with the leg cuffs still on.
The two men were fit, had short hair and sport shirts - typical Shin Bet agents, working for Israel's domestic General Security Service (GSS).
Only one spoke, the other observed. He began by saying he was from Shin Bet and asked me if I knew why the Shin Bet was interested in the ISM.
I replied, saying that their interest was misplaced, because the ISM supports nonviolent Palestinian resistance, and there should be no reason for Israel to oppose that.
He laughed and said that the Palestinians might be nonviolent by day and violent by night.
Then he started on the internationals, mentioning two incidents from 2003 that have been badly distorted and are often used by Israeli authorities to slander the ISM.
He brought up the arrest of a "wanted" man in the ISM apartment in Jenin and the two British suicide bombers, people who had absolutely no connection with the ISM.
He didn't seem interested in listening to my response (for details on these two incidents see www.palsolidarity.org at the frequently-asked questions sections).
Instead, he had read my affidavit to the court in 2003 from my appeal of my denial of entry, and he claimed it said that I had participated in violent demonstrations.
I responded that he had misread my affidavit, because it said clearly that I have participated in peaceful demonstrations that had been met with violence by the Israeli military.
I also told him that if the "secret evidence" against me were revealed, it would not stand up to scrutiny.
He asked me if I had ever carried correspondence for "wanted men", helped wanted men to move about, or given my passport for someone else to use.
He asked if I had ever hit a soldier or thrown stones. He asked if I had ever received weapons or arms training. I answered with indignant 'No's, reiterating that I was a nonviolent activist.
"Maybe you are a real peace activist," he said,
"but can you guarantee that others are?"
I told him that ISM requires all activists to commit to the use of strictly nonviolent means.
He asked me for names of Palestinians working with the ISM. I told him that I was sure he had other sources of information and that I would not give him any information. He also asked me if I was familiar with Israeli peace activist Tali Fahima (jailed and accused of being in contact with "wanted" men from Jenin) and whether I had met Zakaria Zbedi (The head of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in Jenin). "While I have heard of both," I said, "I have met neither."
The interview ended and I was returned shackled to my cell.
There are issues I was afraid to discuss frankly
my interrogation - issues relating to Israeli violence, Israeli double standards, international law
and the arrest of Tali Fahima.
The Shin Bet agents are in a position of power over me as I sit in an Israeli prison.
I know they may distort and manipulate things I say to punish me and achieve their goal of damaging the ISM.
However, the inequality of power and threat of punishment is far less for me than it is for a Palestinian who goes through interrogation. I have governments, which will support me and prevent the worst abuses.
I can afford a good lawyer, who I will be given access to. I have a strong support group and access to the media.
I will also leave here and will not continue to live under Israeli control.Over and over again we have seen that the
international community will not protect Palestinians from Israeli abuses.
They can be imprisoned arbitrarily and tortured.
They are often denied access to lawyers, their homes, lands and their jobs. Freedom of movement can be taken away, and their families are threatened with the same punishments.
The media will not cover their story. Nor do Palestinians have an option to escape Israeli domination.
Power and threats mean
that Shin Bet interrogations of Palestinians
produces incomplete and twisted information.
What disturbed me most about my interrogation by the Shin Bet agent, was his seeming certainty about his information. Not only do the Israeli authorities produce propaganda about the Occupation and about the ISM, but some of them appear to believe it themselves.
The Shin Bet also seems to aim to intimidate by giving the appearance of being all knowing, but their "intelligence" is obviously flawed.
Israeli intelligence is generated from collaborators, surveillance, and interrogation!
It serves the corrupt and corrupting goals of continued military occupation, land seizure, domination and manipulation.
Israeli intelligence treats all forms of opposition as a threat to be eliminated.
It labels all Palestinians as 'terrorists' and all Israelis and internationals who work with them as 'collaborators with terrorism'.
This produces a distorted characterization of Palestinian society, lacking direct experience with normal Palestinians and failing to recognise Palestinians are people with rights and aspirations.
The Shin Bet agent called me 'naive', but I think he is naive for believing that he can understand Palestinian society from a position of domination and inequality, and somehow use that understanding to control and manipulate Palestinians to eliminate all opposition to the Occupation.
Pat O'Connor has worked for Save the Children
and has managed humanitarian aid programs
in the Middle East and Africa,
and volunteered with the International Solidarity Movement in the West Bank
supporting non-violent Palestinian protest
against the Wall.
He is currently in detention at Maasiyahu prison
in Ramle awaiting deportation
Posted by: Dr. Shepard at February 03, 2005 04:43 PM (D3TC8)
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