1 "It is only a matter of time before Islamic terrorists massacre French school children. When that time comes, France will be lucky that Americans have such a short memory span and we are willing to forgive so quickly" speak for yourself, the way I figure it once a backstabbing nation of weasils allways a backstabbing nation of weasils. I will never knowingly buy french products again, they can eat cake... made from crap for all I care.

2 Putin said after 911 "We told you so, but you busted our balls over Chechnya" Putin has found that tapdancing in and out of the fray like schoolchildren skipping in a group in the playground won't work when dealing with terrorists.

3 Both you guys-so what? We ought to do what is in our interests, and when the Frogs find a dirty-bomb in Paris it will be in our interests to help them hunt down the SOBs who did it. Emotionally I'm with you, but let's not act on our emotions.

4 "...Putin is a flawed autocrat with anti-democratic tendencies, but so the freak what?!?!" Wow, the drivel that comes from your mouth keeps getting worse and worse. I can't believe someone thought you were qualified enough to teach kids. Hey, Saddam fit those qualifications 15 years ago...how come we're not friends with him anymore? Oh yeah, I forgot...because dictators (read: "flawed autocrat" if their "allies") can't be trusted. But in the meantime, let's just look the other way, right? You know what's awesome? How 20 years ago people like you hated Soviet citizens for the same reasons you're so quick to dismiss now. I bet in 20 years, you'll love hard-line Muslims.

5 Bush defeated himself when he started an illegal invasion(no, revenge killing is more accurate) based on presumptions that were laughably skewed at the outset. i'm far from being an expert on the Middle East but even i was able to predict the outcome of: chaos in Iraq, and global contempt for the USA.

6 Bush stuck a stick into a hornets nest and stirred, and now we blame the hornets for stinging him? everyone knows you can walk within inches of a hornets nest without being stung, if you so desire. its amusing to see redneck america(redundancy?)using France as a whipping-boy; at least france attempts to come up with solutions, and changes tack when the boat obviously flounders. ......and i'm sure the likes of Rumcrook up there sip Bordeux and nibble escargot frequently

7 nibble this jack, I just pulled it out of your mother.

8 JACK: If jack is your 1st name. I'm sure that ass is your last name.

9 May I remind some. This is not a war against individual countries. This is a Religious war. This is a war because one religion teaches the attacking and killing of others simply because they don't belong to that religion. The religion itself is the terrorist. Look at a map. Islamic nutso Pakistan is between India and Afganistan. Islamic nutso Iran is between Afganistan and Iraq. Islamic nutso Syria is between Iraq and Israel. Keep it simply stupid.

10 Jack: Was able to predict the outcome. News for you fellow, the outcome hasn't come yet.

11 greyrooster: Interesting hypothesis that Islam teaches that it's ok to kill others that aren't Muslim. I guess that's why there are so many killings of foreigners in Quatar, Bahrain, Oman, etc, all sanctioned, of course, by their respective governments...oh, wait. I guess you're theory's not right. The Muslim religion has the same notion about peace and respect to others and their religions as Christianity. As an aside, did you know that Iran actually has a small (but sizeable) Jewish demographic that is remarkably well-treated by the Iranian government? Jewish! So, how come they're not dead? Anyone that thinks this is about religion has lost all grip on reality. This is about power, under the guise of religion. It's in the U.S. best interests to take out Saddam because he wasn't playing ball anymore (see: Noriega), and it was in the best interests of those who despise American foreign policy to resist American encroachment in their homeland. This isn't about human rights, this isn't about democracy, this isn't about religion (despite what murderous Iraqi fanatics might think), and this sure as hell isn't about liberation. This is about neutralizing a former ally who had all his power go to his head in a BAD way for American interests in the Middle East. If you think this is about religion, you're being as short-sighted as those who are committing those awful atrocities over there.

12 "This is about neutralizing a former ally who had all his power go to his head in a BAD way for American interests in the Middle East. " Annnndd.......soooo........what? It's bad to neutralize despotic dictators? Even ones that were strategically useful at one point? Even now that we don't worry about the USSR being in forced in to a game of chicken with ICBM's anymore? Now we just have to turn over the rock once and for all and clean off the maggots? Why not call it what it is? And what is essentially wrong with the way it is? What's the dealio? Sheesh...

13 VEMON: Shortsighted? Or having the common sense to simplify to what actually is. The countries you mentioned have reason for welcoming the non-muslims. It's called technology and work. They have oil. we have technology and money. If Jews are in Iran theres a reason Iran can gain from them being there. Now you're telling murderous religious fanatics they don't know why their killing innocents. That's strong. You know more about their religious convictions than they do. Why bring up Christianity as a comparison for Islam? Muslim don't get along with any other religion either. You need to study Islam. Religion is power. That's the purpose of it.

14 VENOM: I just checked a video to see if you are correct? While the ISLAMIC pigs were cutting the head off an innocent man they were not screaming power is great. They were yelling that god is great. If you cannot understand this you are as shortsighted as the killers. The Koran states that muslims must attack any neighbors that are not believers. Wake up and smell the shit! ISLAMofacists (get it) are real!

15 Tman, So, just so I understand your position, you're saying one of two things: 1) it's ok to let despotic dictators to run free in the world, but only as long as they're useful to the U.S., or 2) all despotic dictators should be eliminated from power, acknowledging that they may have been useful at one point. If it's #1 (which I imagine is the case regarding U.S. foreign policy - see: Pinochet, Rios Mont, Cerezo, etc.), then it's pretty a pretty hypocritical attitude. How does a country claim that it wants to uphold democracy by removing tyrants like Saddam Hussein while turning a blind eye to dictators in its own hemisphere. If you're going to go around the world and take out dictators, take them all out. If it's #2, so be it - but I don't see that happening, otherwise Kim Jong Il wouldn't still be in power. And you know that the U.S. isn't going to try anything over there, especially with China looking over matters.

16 greyrooster: Attibuting the actions of an extremist group to a general population is, again, pretty shortsighted. After all, that's why they call them "extremists" - because their actions are of an extreme nature compared to the overall majority. I don't see the entire U.S. population as murderous scum because John Wayne Gacey, Ted Bundy, and Burkowitz all went on killing sprees. I don't think the U.S. population is a drug-addicted nation because the major cities have drug addicts in them. And I'm not going to assume that Muslims say it's ok to kill non-Muslims just because a bunch of murderous CRIMINALS decide to bastardize the word of God and decide for themselves what's right and wrong. Again, your theory that Muslims say it's ok to kill non-Muslims doesn't hold water or we'd all be dead right now. Oh, wait, I forgot - your excuse for this glaring irregularity is that they keep us alive for their own benefit. C'mon, lay off the crazy pills, greyrooster. I don't see Christians as being a murderous religion just because there happens to be a line in the Bible that says "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," even though some Christian fundamentalists may say it's ok. "You need to study Islam." Thanks, and you need to study some grammar skills. Here's a tip: when you write a nonsensical blathering, try to make it somewhat intelligible. Oh, and thank you also for using one source (of an extreme nature) to try and prove your point. Far be it from you, I guess, to make a generalized comment about a billion people and not use anything other than a beheading video as your proof. Good job, here's hoping that master's thesis of yours pans out (though you might want to use more than ONE SOURCE to back up your ideas). But then again, YOU must know Islam, otherwise you wouldn't take that kind of attitude here.

17 VENOM: Talk about nonsensical blathering. You make excuses for them while others are dying because of them. Why not take a trip to Iraq! I'm sure all the good muslims will protect you from the bad muslims. My grammer skills. Never had any interest in proper grammer. Sad but true. My children remind me all the time. However, since they are all driving new cars to college paid for by me they don't complain too much. I spent my life building America. Not tearing it down. Poor literary skills? yes, but I can design and install a bank of elevators in a 70 story building. Think you could? I don't think Gacy, Bundy and such sicko's killed in god's name. There lies the difference. The bible does say an eye or an eye. It doesn't say a head for nothing. If we did attempt to remove all the despotic leaders in the world people like you would piss and moan like you do everything else. If you are equating the actions of modern day Christians with modern day Islamics I can only hope the muslims get you first. Just how would the Muslim world have destroyed the non muslim world? It seems to me the capabilities are the other way around. We had better keep it that way. I don't know where your hated for America and its policies comes from. Maybe nature wasn't nice to you. You're one sick puppy. Maybe educated, but still a sick puppy. I reserve my hatred for those who hate me. Not my own. Anyway since you have nothing good to say about my country. Kiss my ass.

18 greyrooster: Good for you for deciding that poor grammar skills aren't a necessity in life. I guess that's why you're installing elevators and not riding in them. But hey, if that's what floats your boat, again, good for you. And I think it's admirable that you bought all of your kids cars instead of teaching them the "hard work" mantra that you're trying to shove down my throat. Hypocrite. 1) I don't hate America. You might view that as such, but I think you're jumping to conclusions (I guess because it's convenient and you don't have to back it up). Please, show me where it says I hate America. I hate idiots that blindly follow leaders (Democrat or Republican) without questioning them when it seems they've messed up. My thinking that the current American president is a complete fuck-up doesn't mean I hate America. Far from it. 2) "Talk about nonsensical blathering. You make excuses for them while others are dying because of them." Are you this stupid that I have to reply to this? Apparently so. I was responding to your comment that all Muslims want to kill non-Muslims. Suddenly you equate back to the terrorists in Iraq (who, if you had actually bothered to READ my reply, I described as CRIMINALS). Let me re-iterate what I said before you decided to move the goalposts and change the argument: All Muslims DO NOT want to kill non-Muslims. Understand? If that was the case, relations with Muslim countries (like those I mentioned in the earlier reply) would be tenuous at best, instead of the cozy friendships that have evolved over the last 30-40 years. Stop being an idiot and learn some comprehension skills before you decide to reply. 3) "I don't think Gacy, Bundy and such sicko's killed in god's name. There lies the difference. The bible does say an eye or an eye. It doesn't say a head for nothing." Again, you're missing the point. My point was that you can't draw conclusions from a small segment of the population. I could try explaining this to you (again) but I doubt you'd understand (again). 4)"If we did attempt to remove all the despotic leaders in the world people like you would piss and moan like you do everything else." Nope. I would applaud. It would be commendable. But again, it's convenient for you to assume otherwise. 5)Your "us vs. them" mentality doesn't surprise me. And wishing me personal harm? ("...I can only hope the muslims get you first.") A bit extreme, don't you think? Or is that how you try to come out on top in a debate? I doubt a Muslim would want to kill me for no reason, but a terrorist/criminal (Muslim, Irish, Red Army, Shining Path, etc.) probably would. These terrorists in Iraq bastardize the name of God to justify their killing, so you hate all Muslims. So, does this mean that you hate all blacks because South Africa has one of the highest murder rates in the world? Or that you hate Asians because North Korea is still technically at war with South Korea (and, by associate, the U.S.)? Because these are the same kinds of generalizations you're making, regardless of the generalizations' content.

19 A payday loans secured by a personal check - such as a payday loan - is very expensive credit. Let's say you write a personal check for $115 to borrow $100 in quick cash for up to 14 days. The check casher or payday lender agrees to hold the check until your next payday loan cash. At that time, depending on the particular plan, the lender deposits the check, you redeem the check by paying the $115 in cash, or you roll-over the check by paying a fee to extend the payday loans for another two weeks. In this example, the cost of the initial loan is a $15 finance charge and 391 percent APR. If you roll-over the loan three times, the finance charge would climb to $60 to borrow $100 payday loan cash advance.

20 russia for ever!!!!

1 There are Macedonians in the world?

2 what a silly comment. macedonians are not many, not a reason to forget them

3 baf--he was just joking, and yes it was silly--but a joke. Hurray Macedonia!!!!!1

4 Hasn't anyone discovered by now that BAF hasn't a clue about humor or anything else.

5 Hasn't anyone learned that BAF hasn't a clue about anything.

6 FYROM is not Macedonia but the former Yugoslav Rep of Macedonia.The ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe and its ancient Capitals Pella and Agae are in the Greek provence of the Real Macedonia,

7 O shut up! You greeks are realy boring with proving that Macedonia is greek, there were, there are, and there will be macedonians ever after!

8 fuck the greak they are stupid busterds

9 Macedonia is a country with a history.We are so sorry

10 If Macedonia was Greece and Aleksandar the Great was Greek, then why the fuck he destroy the fucking Greece together with their fucking Olympic games?!

11 I will just send message to all Greek people. Macedonia is state and Macedonians are nation!!! We are the only one!!! Hyrray for REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA

12 the guy is right fuck all you greeks cant make your own history so you try to steel evryone elses and we are not a greek tribe greeks are some muslim tribe from paskistan or something

13 the guy is right fuck all you greeks cant make your own history so you try to steel evryone elses and we are not a greek tribe greeks are some muslim tribe from paskistan or something

14 Fyrom as a country is a joke. If it was not Greece they would starve. Nationalism and stupidity is not enough to feed and dress people.

15 You fools first of all its spelled GREEK not Greak . Macedonia has and always will be Greek how much more proof do you morons need. Its based on actuall facts not on theories. Republic of Macedonia hahahahaha never even heard of you. You people are just a few rejected slavs who have no identity and try to steal history from my people. You people seriously need to open your eyes and accept the truth I mean cmon how stupid can you people seriously be? But then again your not Greek so Im not surprised

16 FYROM = 30% unemployement, 500,000 Albanians, Bulgarian speaking, 30.000 Greek jobs, seasonal workers in Greece, monopoly money, 2 flights to Greece per week Greece = E.U country, Nato, first free nation in Balkans, currency = Euro, Language = Mother of languages, Olympic games, 1700 tanks, 400 aircrafts, more prosperous country in Balkans Conclusion. Why do we bother with Fyromanians? Besides Albanians will get them anyway

17 Greece doesn't have the need to steal history from none. If you have a time machine and travel back in time, whenever and wherever you'll land you'll find a GREEK :-)

18 The most important thing that you poor "whatever u are" is that history of FYROM does not exist. USA has implemented a "fake" history at your education in order to make the balkans fight each other and bye weapons. Greece is the mother of all tribes (especially macedonian), thousand of books refer to that. I feel pitty for fyromaniacs because a nation without history always searches for a truth that will never find...

19 Fuk u greek motha fukerz macedonians will neva be greekz u motha fukerz rnt even orthedox if u wer ull have chrismas like all of d ortherdox countryz serbia, macedonia,russia,ukraine,bulgaria all of them have chrismas on d same date but noooo greekz have it b4 wat kind of n orhterdox r uz u ....ill tell u u stoled our history becoz u wana be like macedonians but ulll neva be us so giv it up fukerz

20 The only real greeks are the people south of Athens,anybody from the north is a Macedonian.

21 I always find a forum like this while i search the internet looking for some info on Alexander and i see the same old same old arguments. Have you people (Greeks - FYROMians or Macedonians...beats me)ever consider the fact that you may come from the same ancestors? consider England and Germany - Common background the saxons.It might as well be Greeks and Macedonians - Common backgrond the ancient Hellenians(im not sure if the word is right). You people always look for the differences instead of the similarities. No wonder why Balkans is still a third world territory and WE rule Europe muahaha :p :p Go England "Rooney the great" The only true king today

22 FIRST OF ALL GREEKS ARE ORTHODOX. SECOND I CAN TELL BY OWN EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I DEAL WITH AMERICANS EVERY DAY (I AM A HOTEL EMPLOYEE IN ATHENS )THAT THEY ARE NOT ONLY STUPID THEY ARE MALAKES ALSO .YOU KNOW WHAT MALAKAS MEANS?IF I WANT TO SPEND MY TIME I CAN WRITE A BOOK WITH ALL THE STUPID THINGS I HAVE HEARD.THE ONLY THING IS THAT GIRLS LIKE ME BETTER KNOW BECAUSE MY BALLS AFTER SO MANY AMERICANS ARE HUGE!!!!!!!. BY THE WAY THESE GOES FOR THE GREEKS IF WE SEND 2 F-16 TO ALBANIA AND FYROM YOU THINK WE CAN BURN THEM DOWN? ARE PAPADOPOULE POU EISA?

23 ok if greeks are orthedox why dont you have chrismas on the same date as all of the ortherdox countries tell me that....

24 BECAUSE UNTIL 1923 WE USED THE SAME CALENDAR BUT AFTER 1923 WE SWITCHED TO GREGORIAN CALENDAR.THERE STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE THAT THEY GO WITH THE OLD ONE BUT THE MAJORITY USES THE NEW WHICH IS ALSO THE OFFICIAL.

25 U STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS.....THE BEST THINK WE CAN DO IS TO NUKE FYROM OR WHATEVER THE NAME IS JUST TO HAVE FUNN A LOT OF FUNN....DONT U PEOPLE KNOW THAT U ARE THE SHIT AND THE MUD OF X YOUGOSLAVIA PLEASE FUCK OF WITH THE MACEDONIA STORY U ARE NOT MACEDONIANS U ARE A HUGE NOTHING P S try to learn english you morons

26 Grchki pedershita edni ebete se vo gaz i vratete se vo pichku materin. Like all of you gay pricks know perfect English, LOL. None of you know jack SHIT about history or politics, I hope the Turks fuck you all up and you never see the light of day again, ugly big-nosed hairy mutants.

27 all of you fools- WHO INVENTED THE INTERNET?? - THE ANCIENT GREEKS! YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT IF IT WASNT FOR THE GREEKS! The solution would be- for Turkey, Albania, Bulagaria, Macedonia and Greece to unite and create the 'Balkan alliance' and become the next world superpower, and bring down america to the ground! I come from a goats village of north greece- in the true MACEDONIA- AND I HAVE TO HIDE IN MY SHACK EVERY TIME I SEE ARMED GANGS OF MACEDONIANS CROSSING THE BORDER INTO MY LAND!

28 The Ancient Greeks invented the INTERNET? LOL Um, I don't think so. J.C.R. Licklider came up with the idea of the internet. Alan Turing was first to properly grasp the concept of building a computer in 1945. Hrmm... now let's see... Ancient Greeks in 1945? rofl Licklider and turing don't sound like Greek names to me. Well an alliance like that what you suggested "sounds" ideal to those of us who are sick to death of American intrusion, though not likely to happen anytime in our lifetimes. It'd be more like Greece and teaming up with their brothers in Serbia. Oh, by the way.. those armed gangs are more than likely motherfucking Albanians, who somehow end up being referred to as "Macedonian citizens". They're Albanian, mate So you didn't invent the internet, nor computers for that matter.. but you are known fo human rights abuse. Perhaps your government should try concentrate on doing something about that ( http://hrw.org/doc/?t=europe&c=greece )

29 if you really really really want this to be resolved i suggest you visit freeipods.zoy.org it also has some good stuff on the long standing macedonian-albanian disputes and a good section on blood feud in the balkans. thanx greekpride

30 i always thought greek did eatser an other day u fucker not christmas i love greeks they the best people they like albanians im albanian but i live in greek in a lil village flambouro!

31 the turks are the root of any problem in region! any1 disagree?

32 Greek are all shit cos they wanted to get troy and got it by being bitches on the back. They want to have wars in balkans. They got CAMRIA an Albanian land and Albanian people who had the land can't go back to their houses cos of you sucker. WE beat the shit out of you in TIRANa in football and u still brake our balls. I want all the Albanians to leave greece cos is shitest country in EUROPE, Why no body like u greek motherfucker? U all greek shave once in a month you look like little bin ladens. The albanian goal is to reunite ALBANIA and who gets on our way like greeks will die ond we are willing to protect our land by force and who touch it we are going to kill as many greeks as possible. LONG LIFE TO MY MOTHER LAND, LAND OF EAGLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

33 OH MAN, I CAN'T FUCKING STAND THESE FUCKING GREEK GYPSIES AND THE OTHER FUCKING SLAV SON OF THE BITCHES LIVING IN BALKAN. IT IS A FUCKING SHAME THAT THE FUCKING GREEKS DESERVE TO LIVE FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS, UNTIL THEY WILL BE FUCKED AGAIN BY THE TURKS AND AFTER THAT THEY WILL BE OVER RUN BY ALBANIANS ANYWAY AS OUR POPULATION GROWS DAY BY DAY. I FUCKED MANY GREEK GIRLS IN ENGLAND AND THEY ALWAYS TOLD ME THAT YOU ALBANIANS ARE GREAT ASSFUCKERS AS WE DON'T GET IT THAT GOOD FROM OUR GREEK BOYS. THE GREEK MEN RATHER FUCK EACH OTHER THAN DOIN' IT WITH THEIR WOMAN. HOW MANY FUCKING GAYS DO YOU HAVE IN GREECE, MATE? YOU ARE ALL LIKE GEORGE MICHAEL, ETC.. FUCK ALL THE GREEKS AND THE FUCKING SLAVS IN BALKAN. LONG LIVE USA AND ALBANIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

34 Hi, can you please stop talking like that? Only because you think we are gays doesn't mean that we can't fuck women. Have you ever heard aboout bi-sexuals??? Well, we greeks are a multi-talented nation who always have been respected in what we did. We satisfied the romans by introducing blew job to them so that's why we alway got well along with the romans. We also fucked the romans in their asses and they liked it. We also tried it with turks but this didn't work instead they fucked us by chopping off our penises. These turkish motherfuckers found this to be too masculin. Anyway, we are the best nation in the work and don't fuck with us greeks because we can be dangerous!!!

35 A UNITED ALBANIA WILL DO TO FUCK ALL THE FUCKING SLAVIC MACEDONIANS,GREEKS AND THE FUCKING SERBS IN BALKAN AS WE HAVE DONE IT IN THE WW2 IN ALLIANCE WITH THE GERMANS. SOONER OR LATER THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AS WE ARE GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER. TIME WILL TELL!! WE DON'T NEED TROUBLEMAKERS IN BALKAN SUCH AS FUCKING SERBS AND MACEDONIANS ARE. WE WILL ACHIEVE OUR VICTORY. WE ARE THE TRULY ILLYRIANS AND DARDANIANS OF THE ENTIRE BALKAN AND WE SHOULD GET ALL UNITED TO CREATE THE GREATER ILLYRIAN KINGDOM. PLEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEE FOLLOW THIS VISION AND NEVER GIVE UP FOR YOUR BELIEF, YOU STRONG ILLYRIANS!!!!

36 ALBANIANS LIVE LONG LIFES AND TRY TO RESPECT EACH OTHER TO THE MAXIMUM COS SKENDERBEU TOLD US TO BE UNITED AND FIGHT FOR THE DIGNITY OF OUR LAND. I AM AN ORTHODOX ALBANIAN BUT I CAN'T SUPPORT greek SONS OF BITCHES. THEY HATE US COS WE FUCK THEIR MOTHERS AND SISTERS EVERYDAY. PEACE TO ALL MY ALBANIAN BROTHERS.................. TIRONA NE ZEMRAT TONA

37 albania dardania ilirian kingdom soon with the help off good end help a super power forces like eagels from big sam united states of america end albania

38 the truth well win and fredom shine and eagles flaights free .like in scanderbeg times

39 DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTEEE ALBANEE ALBANEEE. FOR ALL OFF YOU FUCKING RETARD ALBANIAN SONS OF BITCHES IT MEANS: YOU WILL NEVER BE A GREEK YOU FUCKING ALBANIAN YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE KICKED YOUR ASSES TODAY AND TOMORROW IN OMONIA 30 ALBANIANS WILL DIE JUST FOR FUN CHRISI AVGI FOR EVER

40 dont beee so hapy malaka your turn wiill be comme ve dont forget end you wiil be see albanian illirain dardanaian becoose even macedonian never forget about you grekss hehehehhehehhe

41 eageels eegals evrywere iven in grece oncel sam watching you ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

42 albnaian ilirian dardanian forever end forever

43 YOU ARE VERY LUCKY THAT WE BEAT YOU IN FOOTBALL YESTERDAY OTHERWISE NOT A SINGLE ALBANIAN WOULD BE ALIVE IN GREECE. THE TIME HAS COME FOR GREECE TO CLEAR FROM ALL OF YOUR MOTHERFUCKING GOATSAGGING RACE. SO SUCK MY BALLS ONE MORE TIME YOU ALBANIAN SICK BITCH AND REMEMBER THAT YOUR RACE WAS BORN TO WORK FOR US AND CLEAN OUR FLOORS. HAD ENOUGH YET BITCH? IF NOT COME IN ATHENS AND PRAY THAT I WON'T MEET YOU

44 REMEMBER THAT SOMEONE WHO IS PROUD TO BE ALBANIA IS LIKE SOMEONE WHO IS PROUD TO BE A SHIT

45 I will pay a visit to every skopjian mother before we nuke this fucking land. Fyrom the shit of X Yugoslavia. You know, in my village, in Macedonia (the greek you bastards the only Macedonia in the world)at least one albanian is killed every month...fantastic It would be good to have some slavs as well but they are afraid.Why? ok we undestand. you are a small country and we will give you the right to live.but in about 10 years we will fart and you will die, so enjoy your lifes you have 9 years.

46 MALAKA TA EXW PAREI THA MPW STHN ALVANIA KAI STA SKOPIA KAI THA SKOTWNW KOSMO!!!!!!!!! GAMW TIS MANES SAS RE MOUNIA. GAMW THN ALVANIA KAI TA SKOPIA!!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

47 AKOUW KAI TO ALEXANDER THE GREAT RE GAMWTO! "Near to the East, in a part of ancient Greece, In an ancient land called Macedonia, Was born a son to Philip of Macedon, The legend his name was Alexander." READ THIS RE MOUNIA "IN A PART OF ANCIENT GREECE".FUCKERS! NOT IN A PART OF "FORMER ROMAN-YUGOSLAVIAN-TURKISH AND CURRENT USA LAND". MOUNOPANA

48 Mpravo file kai egw mazi sou eimai. Einai kairos ola afta ta apovrasmata pou molynoun tin xwra mas na pethanoun GREECE FOR EVER MOTHERFUCKERS AND FOR ALL ALBANIAN SLAV AND THE REST SHIT OF X YUGOSLAVIA SUCK OUR BALLS HARD BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING YOU RE GONNA GET YOU FUCKING 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES!!! PS. ALBANIANS ARE ONLY GOOD TO WORK IN MUD UGLY DIRTY MOTHERFUCKERS

49 And for an early post of an english gay tell your primeminister to stop sucking G.W. Bush dick and then speak you motherfucker. For the other gay that said about human rights abuse we treat all greeks the same except the albanians, x yugoslavia, bulgaria and ther rest of this mud because they are not human, the look like shit!!!

50 POUTANAS GIOI ALVANOI KAI SKOPIANOI

51 HEY YOU GREEKS, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE ALBANIANS IN ALBANIA AS YOUR ONLY ENEMY??????? YOU FUCKING SON OF THE BITCH. YOU SHOULD NOW THAT THE KOSOVAR ALBANIANS ARE ON THEIR SIDE AS THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTER TOGETHER. YOU KNOW, I PRAY TO GOD THAT A WAR SHOULD START AGAINST FUCKING "HOMOSEXUAL" GREECE SO THAT WE WIPE YOU OUT COMPLETELY YOU DIRTY AND UGLY GIPSY HOMO SON OF THE BITCHES. I WOULD LIKE PERSONALLY VERY MUCH TO CUT OFF YOUR FUCKING THROAT AND DRINK SUCK YOUR FUCKING BLOOD OUT OF YOUR DIRTY VEINS. OH MAN, THE SAME AS WE HAVE DONE WITH THE FUCKING SERBS YOU SON OF A BITCH. OUR ALLY TURKEY WOULD DO THE SAME AS THEY ARE OUR BROTHERS. THE TURKISH FUCKED YOUR MOTHERS AND SISTERS FOR MORE THAN 400 YEARS AND I AM QUITE POSITIVE THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN BUT THIS TIME TOGETHER WITH THE ALBANIANS. ALSO, THE ALBANIAN RACE IS FAR MORE CLEANER THAN THE FUCKING GREEK GYPSY RACE YOU FUCKING IDIOT. YOUR FUCKING POPULATION IS SHRINKING THAT IS GOOD..... WE WILL MEET US SOON. YOUR ARE GOIND TO SUFFER A PAINFUL DEATH.....

52 Any greeks like to suck my big DIG are welcome but they have to pay $200 for max. 5 minutes. With this dig I fucked in the U.S. many greek tourist girls and they loved it man. They fucking screamed worse than a chicken, oh fuck were they dirty. I fucking had to slap them in their fucking ugly faces when turned their head while i was fucking their butts. from fuck all the greeks party

53 I DIDN'T KNOW THAT SHIT ARE ABLE TO TALK!!!THE ONLY WAY YOUR PEOPLE CAN LIVE YOU SICK BASTARD IS IF THEY SEEK EMPLOYMENT IN GREECE!!! SO HAVE RESPECT FOR THE COUNTRY THAT FEEDS YOU BASTARD. THAT'S WHY WE ARE SO FED UP WITH YOUR SHIT. AND IF YOU ARE SO BLOODTHIRSTY COME AND SAY THAT IN ATHENS YOU BASTARD AND PRAY THAT POLICE FINDS YOU BEFORE ME BECAUSE OTHERWISE I'M GONA CUT OFF YOUR DICK AND FEED IT IN YOUR MOUTH YOU FUCKING MISERABLE ALBANIAN. THERE IS NOTHING YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY CAN BE COMPARED WITH US, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SO FUCK OFF LEARN SOME FUCKING HISTORY AND THEN SPEAK BASTARD!!! THE ALBANOKILLER

54 BUT THEN AGAIN IT WAS OUR MISTAKE TO OPEN THE BORDERS SOME YEARS AGO AND ALL THIS HUNGRY SCUM CAME TO US FROM THE SHIT COUNTRIES OF BALKANS. CONSIDER YOUR PLACE IN THE WORLD FIRST AND THEN POST COMMENTS HERE. AND FOR THE OTHER ALBANIAN HERE TRUST ME NOT A SINGLE GREEK GIRL WOULD TURN HER FACE TO SEE AN ALBANIAN. ITS LIKE TO LOOK A SHIT. FUCKING POOR MISERABLE BASTARDS TRY TO SOLVE YOUR FUCKING PROBLEMS IN YOUR COUNTRY FIRST!!! BUT ACTUALLY THERE IS A SOLUTION. WE CAN SEND 2 F-16 AND FUCKING BREAK DOWN YOUR COUNTRY AND TAKE AWAY YOUR MISERY. ALBANIANS WERE BORN TO BE SLAVES OF THE GREEK RACE!!!!

55 ooo CHRIS AVGI dont goo tu fasst pedo you think like caw and a ithink that you are like you brother michael you are only for this job not to doo war ..........HEHHHEHEH

56 SO HASAN IF BOSNIANS ALBANIANS SKOPIANS ARE YOUR BROTHERS TAKE THEM IN YOUR FUCKING DIRTY COUNTRY AND ALL TOGETHER PRAY FOR THE DAY THAT WE WILL ACCEPT YOU TO EUROPE (31 FEBRUARY 2006). DO YOU THINK WE HAVE TIME TO WASTE HERE WITH YOU AND WITH YOUR ALBANIAN SHITS? AT LEAST YOU CONFIRM THAT ALBANIANS AND TURKS ARE THE SAME SHITS AND THEY ARE BROTHERS.

57 DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

58 WHATS THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN A LIGHT BROWN SHIT AND A DARK BROWN SHIT?

59 THE FIRST ONE IS AN ALBANIAN AND THE SECOND ONE IS A TURK HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

60 thelo na skotoso enannnnn AL......VANO

61 Greece nukes your arses you fucking nigroids. We'll slay your races till balkans are pure again ...

62 CHRISI, YOU FUCKING SON OF A BITCH AGAIN YOU SHOW WITH YOUR SILLY COMMENTS THAT YOU GREEKS ARE NO WORSE THAN JUST A FUCKING RACIST. IN THIS PLANET THERE IS NO PLACE FOR FUCKING RACIST PEOPLE LIKE YOU, YOU BASTARD!!! GO TO HELL AND TAKE YOUR FUCKING UGLY GREEKS WITH YOU. DOWN WITH GREECE ONCE AND FOR ALL!! DOWN WITH THE RACIST ONCE AND FOR ALL! SUCK MY DIG YOU WEAK LITTLE GREEK IDIOT!!

63 Mongoloids of the world hide - we are on the hunt. This is not racism - racism refers to discrimination between equals - YOU ARE NO FUCKING EQUAL BY DEFINITION. So run and hide ...

64 So you pretend to be a Greek Nazi??? I don't get this men. Greece, has more than 3 1/2 million who do not belong to the aryan race and this is a fact. So my question to you is, against which of the non-white races are you against?? I know many greeks during my studies in the United Kingdom and they looked small, some very dark, others light dark, and might have seen one or two greeks only who had blue eyes and blonde hair. So, your methodology doesn't fit quite well in your own country with the vision of the "Hellenic Nazi Alliance Party". The danger there is that you would have to start with your "Ethnic Cleansing" first in Greece before you reach other Balkan Nations. Your thoughts are very dangerous and meaningless so please be careful what you say there because other have aready a very bad impression of greek people like yourself. A question to you? Why did the Nazis kill so many greeks during the WW2??? As far as I am concerened they have never harmed anyone elso who belonged to the aryan race (ie. Croats, Albanians, Bosniaks - these are non slav nations). Also, if you think you don't like slavs in the balkan, why are so many greeks who marry with Serbs (who clearly belong to the slav race)??? Pablo

65 Greco-Turkish War (1897) The Greco-Turkish War of 1897, also called the Thirty Days' War, was a war between Greece and the Ottoman Empire. Its immediate cause was Greek concern over the situation in Crete, where the Greek population was still under Ottoman control. In late 1896 a rebellion broke out on Crete, and on January 21, 1897 a Greek army landed in Crete to liberate the island from Ottoman control and unite it with Greece. The European powers, however, intervened, and proclaimed Crete an international protectorate. The Greek army retreated to the mainland, where it next attempted to advance northwards into Thessaly and Epirus. In Thessaly the Turks had concentraded six divisions of about 60,000 men under Edhem Pasha, with a seventh division joining a litle later. The Greeks numbered just under 46,000, led by Crown Prince Constantine. The Greeks controlled the sea, outnumbering and outgunning the Turkish navy. In early April Greek troops crossed the border, trying to start an uprising in Macedonia. The armies met at Mati. The Greeks were outnumbered, and retreated past Larissa, which was evacuated. Near Pharsala the Greeks re-established order, and a counter-attack was planned. However, Greek morale failed, and they were only saved because the Ottoman Sultan ordered a cease-fire on May 20. In Epirus, the Greeks numbered 15,000, against 30,000 Turks under Achmet Hifsi Pasha. On April 18 the Turks began bombarding Arta, but they could not take the city. Retreating to Philiappiada, the Turks entrenched themselves. Greek forces counter-attacked but were worsted when reinforcements failed. The Greeks finally retreated on May 15 with heavy losses. Peace was signed on September 20, arranged by European powers. Turkey received a large amount of money as indemnification, and gained a small amount of land on the Thessaly border. This was the only occasion during the century of conflict between Greece and the Turks that Greece was forced to cede land to the Turks.

66 Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922) The Greco-Turkish War of 1919-1922, also called the War in Asia Minor, and (in Turkey) a part of the Turkish War of Independence, was a war between Greece and Turkey fought in the wake of World War I. The war arose because the western Allies, particularly British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, had promised Greece territorial gains at the expense of the Ottoman Empire if Greece entered the war on the Allied side. These included eastern Thrace, the islands of Imbros and Tenedos, and parts of western Anatolia around the city of Smyrna (current day İzmir), all of which had substantial Greek populations. The 1920 Treaty of Sèvres, which ended the First World War in Asia Minor and divided the Ottoman Empire, assigned all these territories to Greece. Greek troops had already occupied Smyrna and the surroundings in May 1919 under cover of French, British and American ships. Meanwhile the former Ottoman general Mustafa Kemal (later Kemal Atatürk) had formed a new Turkish nationalist government at Ankara on April 23, 1920, which repudiated the Treaty of Sèvres and prepared for war against the Greeks. In October 1920, with the encouragement of Lloyd George who intended to increase the pressure on the Turkish and Ottoman governments to sign the Treaty of Sevrès, the Greek army advanced east into Anatolia with the intention of defeating the Kemalist forces before they were ready to attack the Greek perimeter at Smyrna. This advancement was begun under the Liberal government of Eleftherios Venizelos, but soon after the offensive began Venizelos fell from power and was replaced by Dimitrios Gounaris, who appointed inexperienced monarchist officers to senior commands. King Constantine took personal command of the army at Smyrna. After a Greek defeat on January 11, 1921, allied states proposed to amend the Treaty of Sevrès at a conference in London where both Turkish and Ottoman governments were represented. Although some agreements were reached with Italy, France and Britain, the decisions were defied by the Greeks who initiated another attack on March 27 (Battle of Inonu II), to be resisted and finally defeated by the Kemalist troops on March 30. The unpredictable Turkish victory caused Secretary of War Winston Churchill to withdraw British support to the Greeks. In June 1921 the strengthened Greek army advanced to the River Sakarya, less than 100 km (62 miles) west of Ankara. Meanwhile, the Turkish government at Ankara appointed Mustafa Kemal as the commander in chief. In August, Kemal counter-attacked, routing the Greeks and cutting off their supply lines at the Battle of Sakarya (August 23 - September 13, 1921). The Greeks retreated in good order and still hoped to defend their base at Smyrna. They appealed to the Allies for help, but early in 1922 Britain, France and Italy decided that the Treaty of Sèvres could not be enforced and should be revised. Parallel to their decision, with successive treaties, Italian and French troops evacuated their positions. In March 1922 the Allies proposed a ceasefire, but Kemal answered there could be no settlement while the Greeks remained in Anatolia. In August, after preparations on both sides, the Turks launched a new offensive on August 26, defeating the Greeks at the Battle of Dumlupinar near Afyon (August 30, 1922, celebrated as the Victory Day and a national holiday in Turkey). Shortly after their victory, the Turks captured Smyrna (September 9). The city was burned to the ground (by retreating Greeks according to the Turks, or by Turks, according to the Greeks) and all the Greeks who could not escape by sea were massacred. This started a general fleeing of Greeks from Anatolia. With the borders secured with treaties and agreements at east and south, Kemal was now in a commanding position. The Turks were then able to insist that unconditionally, the Greeks evacuate east Thrace, Imbros and Tenedos as well as Asia Minor, and the Maritza River to be set as the border at Thrace at its pre-1914 position. The majority of the ethnic Greek population of Asia Minor had already fled or been expelled to Greece. Greeks call this the "Asia Minor Disaster". France, Italy and Britain called Mustafa Kemal to Venice for cease-fire negotiations. In return, Mustafa Kemal demanded negotiations be started at Moudania (Mudanya) on condition that east Thrace be ceded to Turks immediately. Negotiations at Mudanya began on October 3, with the Turkish delegation lead by Ismet Inonu, and the Greeks represented by the Allies. When the British resisted, at Chanak on the Dardanelles, Kemal dared Britain to enforce the terms of the Treaty of Sèvres, but Lloyd George backed down. The Mudanya Armistice was concluded on October 11, 1922, with the Allies keeping east Thrace and the Bosporus under occupation, but the Greeks evacuating these areas. The agreement came into force starting October 15, one day after the Greek side agreed to sign it. At the Treaty of Lausanne (July 1923) which concluded the Greco-Turkish War, Greece's withdrawal from Anatolia and east Thrace was formalised. For reparations of the damage caused by the Greek occupation in western Anatolia, Karaagac (a bridgehead in Edirne) was left to Turkey as well (Article 59). To ensure lasting peace, Greece was restricted at some Aegean islands from keeping military forces, similar to Turkey at the straits. In addition, the Italians kept the Dodecanese Islands, which they had acquired from the Ottomans in 1912. There was little to stop Ataturk from claiming western Thrace, which had a large Turkish population, as well. He did not do so because he wished to create a homogenous Turkish state without ethnic minorities; also, this area was lost by the Ottomans before the First World War, and this was defined by international agreements. All non-Muslim Turkish subjects were ensured by the treaty to enjoy equal legal, civil and political rights as Muslims. It was also agreed that all disputes regarding the property and possessions of Turkey and Greece would be in the future settled by an arbitral tribunal at The Hague. One of the most important social consequences of the Treaty of Lausanne was the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. More than a million Greeks from Anatolia were expelled to Greece, and about 500,000 Turks moved in the opposite direction. The Greeks of Constantinople and the Turks of western Thrace were exempted from this transfer. The exchange saw the abandonment of areas where Greeks had lived since ancient times, such as Ionia and Pontus. Although Greeks sometimes refer to these events as a holocaust or a genocide, and although thousands of Greeks were killed in the course of the transfers, there was no intent on the part of the Turkish authorities to massacre the Greeks, and the great majority of Anatolian Greeks escaped with their lives, if little else. Another result was a violent political reaction in Greece. Military officers seized power in Athens and forced King Constantine to abdicate (see History of Modern Greece). Five senior commanders of the Anatolian expedition were tried for treason and executed. The bitterness engendered by these events lingered in Greek politics for many years. The war made both Greece and Turkey more ethnically homogenous and reduced (but did not eliminate) the areas of conflict between the two countries. It also ended the Greek dream of recreating an enlarged state with Constantinople as its capital (the Great Idea or Megali Idea) and encouraged Greek politicians to concentrate on domestic issues.

67 Hey you fucking greek eating shitty face monsters. There is enough evidence (look above!) that we fucked you in two major wars, so shut the fuck up there is nothing and nothing you ever never will compete with us Turks you ugly son of the bitches. Don't you fucking get it, you are nothing and you never be anything until downfall of this planet you shit little greasy greek bastards!!! A third war would mean that we would completely wipe you out, you fucking son of a bithes. Even our american Allies hate you because they know who you really are, namely USELESS in anything!!! To Hell with Greece... Kemal PS. TURKEY IS WATCHING YOU......SO BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU DO AND WHAT YOU SAY...!!!

68 greeks stoopit evrebody is watching you

69 Yeahhh...right, fuck the stupid greeks.

70 I didn't fucking now that the greeks were the greatest loosers in our history!!! Man, that must have been an embarresment for the greeks to loose all the wars they had against the turks. So, why the fucking do they come up with legends like Achilles, Hercules, Odysee etc. etc...when they already have proven since the last 700 years that they weren't capable to defeat their enemies. Who were actually these legends that the greeks pretend to be of their origin? Was Alexander the Great really a Greek? or maybe just a false figure who was either Illyrian or even Dardanian from the same origin as Aeneas was??? Big stories with big lies, isn't it!!! Again, never trust the Greek books because they cheat and cheat and cheat.....Hahahahahahahahaha

71 First i would like to answer to that stupid shit Pablo and his question why the Nazis killed so many Greeks during the Second World War. Can you tell us Pablo where was Turkey and Albania during the 2WW? I will tell you! Albania, which declared its independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1912, owed its continued existence during and immediately after World War I for the most part to weariness and lack of interest on the part of its neighbors.In what can only be described as an isolated and backward corner of Europe barely emerged from the Middle Ages, Prime Minister Ahmet Beg Zogu in the 1920s took the crown in the land of Gegs and Tosks as King Zog I and presided over a kingdom most noted for its blood feuds. Despite lack of industry, perennial food shortages, limited natural resources, and a population comprised mostly of SAVAGE and ILLITERATE TRIBESMEN, Albanian territory was coveted at various times during the inter-war years by Yugoslavia, Greece, and in particular Italy. On 7 April 1939 Italian troops landed at Albania. The small Albanian army, trained and indoctrinated by an Italian military mission, for the most part offered little or no resistance.Inept and ill-prepared though the invaders were, there was nothing to stop them. So Italy had conguered Albania in a week and force them to withdrew from the League of Nations on 14 April 1939. ********* AND THATS THE CONTRIBUTION OF THE ALBANIAN STATE TO THE SECOND WORLD WAR......... ONE WEEK OF HUMILIATION TO THE WEEK ITALIAN FORCES WITH NO RESISTANCE AT ALL***************** Lets see the other shits the Turks now... As we all know Turkey during the 2WW was ''neutral'', and on Feb. 23, 1945(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), declared war on Germany and Japan, but it took no active part in the conflict. A number of countries regarded as ''neutral'' in the second World War helped the Nazis by allowing Germany to purchase key supplies. Four countries - Portugal, Spain, Sweden and TURKEY - were as crucial to the Nazi war effort as neighbouring Switzerland. Turkey sent chromite, including 100% of Germany's 1943 requirement, for hardening steel to make armour. The ''neutrals'' were paid for crucial commodities through the Swiss National Bank with gold that Hitler's troops had looted from other banks, and valuables stolen from Holocaust victims. Thats why Turkey's gold deposits before the war were 27 tons but after the war they reached 216 tons, as a result of the gold that was brought to the country by the Nazis. ********* AND THATS THE CONTRIBUTION OF THE TURKISH STATE TO THE SECOND WORLD WAR......... THEY NEVER FOUGHT BECAUSE THEY WERE ''NEUTRALS'' BUT THEY GOT MONEY FROM THE NAZIS FOR PROVIDING CRUCIAL SUPPLIES TO THEM.... OH I FORGOT!!!! THE DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY AND JAPAN 2,5 MONTHS BEFORE ITS END. (In Europe, the war ended with the surrender of Germany on 8 May 1945)********* /////THATS WHAT I CALL A HISTORY TO BE PROUD OF...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA/////// IN THE OTHER HAND THE GREEKS WAS THE FIRST NATION (ALTHOUGH SMALL AND POOR)WHO WERE BRAVE ENOUGH AND HAD PRIDE, TO DECLARE WAR TO ITALIANS AND TO THE GERMANS. AND THEY PAID THIS DECLARATION WITH HEAVY LOSSES. WE WON THE FIGHT AGAINST THE ITALIANS BUT WE LOST AGAINST THE GERMANS BUT NOT IN ONE WEEK LIKE THE ALBANIANS DID. ALTHOUGH WE LOST THE FIGHT WITH THE GERMANS WE CONTINUED OUR RESISTANCE AGAINST THEM AND WE WERE NOT ''NEUTRALS'' LIKE THE TURKS WERE. AND OUR TROOPS WERE LEFT GREECE TO FIGHT IN OTHER AREAS (NORTH AFRICA) AGAINST THE AXIS. GOT IT? THATS WHY THE GERMANS KILLED SO MANY OF US... CAUSE WE HAD THE PRIDE TO SAY: ''WE ARE GREEKS NOT ALBANIAN AND TURKISH SHITS AND IF YOU WANT GREECE COME AND GET IT IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS...... GOT IT PABLO?

72 And now Kemal's turn..... Very well Kemal, your knowledge of history exceeds all our expectations. So because you are good at history and it is boring to write these things can you please write us more on the Greek-Turk conflicts and the battles that you won? Please start with the 1821 revolution when there was not a Greek state and tell us what happen in 1830(declaration of Greece as an independent state). Then you can continue with the first Balkan Wars in 1912 and you can tell us what happen there and who was the winner. if you want tell us about the first World War and then tell us about the second World War and the role of Turkey in it (hahahahahahahaha). After you finish with the wars and with the battles that the Turks have won you can start a new chapter with the title: ***THE TURK CONTRIBUTION TO CIVILISATION*** There you can write about KEBAB.... and hmmmmmm...... and......hmmmmmmmmm.... I cannot find anything else. If anyone finds anything else please let me know...... So my dear friend Kemal sleep and dream about the battles you won back in 1800's. BUT REMEMBER!!!!There is no point winning battles when your opponent is taking your land hahahahahahahahaha. And thats what Greeks did back then....They made a new country from scratch although they were loosing the battles you just mentioned. hahahahaha. PS. AND PLEASE WHEN YOU COPY AND PASTE FACTS ABOUT TURKISH-GREEK HISTORY READ THEM FIRST. I SPENT MY TIME READING YOUR POST ABOUT TWO BATTLES JUST FOR WHAT? TO PROVE US THAT YOU CAN WIN US IN A THIRD WAR? STUPIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

73 AND DONT FORGET...... ******** DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*********

74 THE FOLLOWING WORDS I FOUND THEM IN THE INTERNET AND COPY-PASTED THEM HERE AS IT WAS. I PUT IN THE GOOGLE ''GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE'' AND THE FOLLOWING PHRASES (AND MANY MORE) CAME OUT AS A RESULT. # Greece is a country of a rich cultural heritage. Democracy was invented in Athens, Greek culture is the mother of Roman culture and has very much influenced other civilisations. # Ancient Greek culture, particularly as developed in Athens, was the principal source of Western civilization. # Ancient Greece was a great civilization from which came major contributions to present-day society. Greece is the birthplace of the first Olympic games, great minds like Aristotle, Alexander the Great and Plato, and is home to the breathtaking, ancient architecture of the Acropolis in Athens # Greece is the birthplace of civilization # greece is the cradle of western civilization # Greece is the birthplace of the “father of medicine” Hippocrates, who believed the body should be treated as a whole and that food should be medicine # greece is one of the oldest civilizations # greece is the land where the ancient gods chose to reside # The pillar of Western civilization, Greece is the birthplace of democracy and the Olympics, the land of Plato, Sophocles and Homer. Greeks are very proud to show the value of their rich cultural heritage, and Greece has become a popular tourist destination for lovers of old rocks and Mediterranean beaches # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization, having given rise to reason, philosophy, science and democracy # It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of the Gods and mythic heros, as well as other extraordinary personalities such as poets, rheteurs and philosophers who taught the art of reasoning, and discussion. A country where human beings loved working with their hands to create works of art, in which a large number can still be admired today. # Not surprisingly, Greece is the birthplace of contemporary Mediterranean cuisine. While Greece's gifts to Western culture may need no testimony, many are unfamiliar with the hearty, flavorful dishes originating in the Isles # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest civilizations, the legacy of which can still be seen in its numerous monuments throughout the country # Greece is the birthplace of western civilization, the place that launched our history, art and philosophy # Greece, of course, is known not only as the birthplace of history and philosophy, but of classic art. # Greece is the birthplace of western wine culture, spreading their appreciation and expertise throughout the Mediterranean over 4,000 years ago # Greece is the birthplace of western art, philosophy and drama. It is the cornerstone of civilisation and wherever you travel there, you will find evidence of a glorious past. Greece offers travellers a unique blend of beautiful Mediterranean landscape, overwhelming history and great hospitality. # Greece (Hellas) is the birthplace of Democracy and modern conventions. Thousands of years ago, Greece had already gained stature as a democracy nation. Hellas is also the birthplace of the Philosophy, Tragedy, Mathematics, Physics and Biology as well as the Olympic Games. A nation with more than three thousand years history! The Classic Years, the Alexandrine and the Roman Period are in perfect harmony with the Greek-Orthodox Spirit of the Byzantine Times as well as with the Neo-Hellenic (i.e.new-Greek) Culture. Greece is the birthplace of Homeros, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eukleides, Socratis, Plato, Pericles, Sofocles, Democritos, Aristotle and Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the Byzantine Empire was that rescued, developed and spread the Hellenic Civilisation to the other European and Asian Nations. # Greek philosophers and political leaders -- Cleisthenes and Pericles and their successors -- had great influence upon America's Founding Fathers in their creation of these United States. We, as a nation, owe a great debt to Greece. Greece is the birthplace of democracy, as we know it. Thomas Jefferson said, "To the ancient Greeks, we are all indebted for the light which led ourselves (American colonists) out of Gothic darkness." # Greece is the birthplace of democracy. The land that has enriched Western civilization with its history, philosophy and many other academic influences. Geometry, architecture, drama, philanthropy, and music have traveled globally from ancient Greece and have become the foundations of worldly theories, concepts and ideas. Furthermore, the Greek language has enriched other languages with many words. The unique and most delicious Greek cuisine, consists of many specialties, all cooked with care, mastery, love and excellence. The Greek cooking is distinguished with olive oil, herbs, and spices like basil, oregano, daphne, parsley; whilst the original dishes of mousaka, souvlaki and horiatiki salata (to mention a few) decorate each table deliciously. Lastly, let us not forget one of the most important international events which unite each nation in brotherhood, the Olympic Games, born in Greece, 776 B.C. in the spirit of world peace. Each traveler cannot resist the charm of this mystical land. # Greece is the birthplace of the Olympic Games, home of Ulysses, the Argonauts, and hallowed ground to the ancient Olympian gods. Today, a modern infrastructure, new airports, and world-connected communications provide the highest standards of service, both above and below water. A warm, dry climate supports thousands of uninhabited islands surrounded by the cleanest seas in all Europe. People are friendly, traditional, educated, and hospitable. Expect delicious local food, spirited entertainment, and unparalleled sightseeing. # Greece is the birthplace of democracy, theatre, philosophy and sport. # As ancient Greece is the birthplace of democracy, and, indeed the very underpinnings of the American way of life, so too was the American revolution the model for the modern Greek independence movement that began 168 years ago. In fact, Greeks used the United States Declaration of Independence as the archetype for their own declaration. Many American volunteers sailed to Greece to participate in Greece's war for independence. # As Will Durant wrote: Greek civilization is alive * * * it moves in every breath of mind we breath * * * so much of it remains that none of us in one lifetime could absorb it all. Greece is the bright morning star of that Western civilization which is our nourishment and life. Indeed, Percy Bysshe Shelly wrote: We are all Greeks! Our laws, our literature, our religion, our art, have their roots in Greece. Herro hera elefteria! Long live freedom! # Greece is the birthplace of athletics # Greece is the birthplace of philosophy # 4,000 years of history and tradition is revealed in front of your eyes, from Mycenae to Olympia and Macedonia, from the incomparable sculptures of the Golden Age (Acropolis, Delphi) to the Byzantine cultural heritage (Mystras, Meteora). Greece is the birthplace of democracy. It is hard to imagine what civilised life would be like today without the influence of ancient Greece. # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest and most glorious civilizations # Ancient Greece is the birthplace of the earliest written western theories about physiology (500-300BC). Hippocrates (circa 460-377BC) makes no mention of the spirit. Plato (circa 428-347BC) proposed that mind and body were separate entities # Greece is the birthplace of the greatest philosophers (Socratis, Thales, Plato, Aristotle), the author of the first great European literary work, Homer, the great tragedy writers (Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus), the father of medicine Hippocrates and so many others! # As scholars have noted, Greece is the birthplace of the art of rhetoric, grammar, and logic. While "many other ancient civilizations produced literature, only the Greeks produced analytic, expository treatises that attempted to discover the actual bases of human communication" (Murphy & Katula, A Synoptic History of Classical Rhetoric, 1994, p. x). # ancient Greece is the birthplace Western philosophy & science, including astronomy. Yes, I know the Egyptians were astronomers too, but that was mainly in Ptolemeic Egypt, which for all intents and purposes was essentially Greece. Sorry to be so droll, but I answer these questions about ten times a week. # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization and modern thought. Greece is the home of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, and of the Olympic Games # Greece is the birthplace of mathematics # GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF DEMOCRACY, THE CREATOR OF SCIENCE AND ART, THE HOME OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND THE BEST PART OF EUROPE. # ...... ..... .. SO PROUD TO BE HELLENAS (GREEK)... **GEORGE FROM ATHENS** PS: 1/ LOVE YOU ALL GUYS, BUT WE DESERVE RESPECT. 2/ UNFORTUNATELY WE LIVE IN A BAD NEIGHTBORHOUD. ALL AROUND GREECE (ALBANIANS,TURKS,FYROMS,BULGARIANS) JEALOUS US. THIS IS A FACT. 3/ FYROM GUYS (SLAVS) BE GOOD BOYS. IT IS NOT BAD TO BE A SLAV. IF IT IS TO HEAVY FOR YOU, BE A PART OF GREECE. MACEDONIANS = GREEK TRIBE, NOT SLAVS.EVEN THE STONES KNOW THAT.''Republica Macedonjia-Skopje'' IS TOO MUCH FOR YOU. KISSES.

75 oh go and fuck your brother you little greek bastard. Either you haven't read the articles correctly above at all or you really are that stupid that your brain is completely damaged. Why are you greeks just FULL OF SHIT??? First of all, these articles were taken out from the internet so that your ugly face knows the truth. But again, you don't know anything about the truth because they teach you the wrong history in your shitty schools. We turks don't have to prove you anything at all because YOU ARE NOT A CHALLENGE FOR TURKEY!!! YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN AND YOU WILL NEVER BE!!! ACTUALLY, YOU ARE NOTHING BUT SHIT!!! BESIDES, YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED MOST OF THE QUESTIONS ABOVE WITH A LOGICAL PROOF. FOR EXAMPLE, WHY DO GREEKS MARRY WITH SERBS WHEN THEY ALREADY BELONG TO THE SLAVIC RACE ANYWAY (LIKE RUSSIANS). I THOUGHT THAT GREEKS DON'T LIKE SLAVIC NATIONS???? I ALWAYS SAY NEVER TRUST A GREEK BECAUSE THEY ARE LYERS AND A CORRUPT NATION. YOU ARE ALL RACIST AND WHATEVER YOU SAY NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO YOU ANYWAY!!! HELL IS WAITING FOR YOU, GREEKS...

76 Can you greeks comment on my question, please? Why do you hate us when you actually have so much in common with our turkish race? I mean for god's sake we have invaded Greece for more than 400 years, we lived with greeks with slept with their wifes and daughters for more than six generations. I mean look at us and look at you guys you must be blind if you see any racial or physionomic difference between us and Greeks. So, why the fuck don't you just admit that YOU GREEKS ARE ONE AND THE SAME AS WE TURKS ARE??? ONCE UPON A TIME YOU WERE WHITE, BUT TODAY YOU HAVE A MIXTURE BETWEEN TURK AND A GREEK!!!! THAT IS THE FACT, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. WE ARE SISTERS AND BROTHERS TODAY. REGARDS TO ALL MY GREEK FRIENDS, AZIZ

77 can't we just live in peace without fight and jeolousity? We should learn from our past and not repeat the bad things that took us apart and destroyed our nations. If i am a slavic macedonian doesn't mean that I am a bad person. I have very good friends from europe and different other minorities who I get very well along with. I wish the same to everyone in this forum. peace to Macedonia and Peace to the world. Slobo

78 Hahahahahaha.....!!! Greek and History.....!!! I learned something about it by wathing SIMPSONS the other Day. Quite interesting actually!!! I am having a great laugh about it, man! See ya' soon! Jo'

79 Yes go ahead and watch Simpsons. You are so stupid that you wouldn't understand anything else. Open your eyes sucker and search the internet for you might find some stuff that connect the Greeks to a lot of History at a time your ancestors were acting like apes. The two previous guys proved to the most what Greek nation means and is capable of. So next time you try to post a comment about Greeks and their history make a search and inform yourself before your hands start to type shit!!!! And as for you Kemal the previous guy told enough for you. If you are blind it is your own problem. There is nothing that Turkey has that we (Greeks) are jealous of. Ooh and ask yourself this question. What has your nation done and you are so proud of? One more thing, in our shitty as you say schools they teach us our history from some thousand years ago because WE HAVE HISTORY TO BE TAUGHT. What the hell do YOU have? How to make a kebab???? Also this stuff the guy wrote is from the internet as well, it's what the other nations believe and study upon as well!!! So go ahead and swear, laugh and make whatever silly comments you wish but you can't deny the facts!!! Greeks have contributed a great deal of stuff to the human race as other nations have and are proud of but although I am trying to find some contribution from the Turks i end with nothing!!! My kindest regards!!!

80 I am attaching the following so anyone with a straight mind can read this and admire turkish tactics and manners for the Greeks and then evaluate his or her stand over the turkish nation. SEPTEMBER 6th 1955, THE NIGHT OF TERROR IN CONSTANTINOPLE Under the terms of the agreement regarding the exchange of populations in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, the Greek population of Constantinople-a thriving community-and the muslim community residing in Western Thrace were exempted from the exchange process. In the beginning of the 20th century there were over 300,000 Greeks residing in Constantinople. They had managed to survive there despite centuries of oppression and persecution under the Ottoman yoke. But the Turks were determined to expel all Greeks from their ancient home using all available means. Thus, the Turks systematically used the following measures in order to accomplish their objective : In May 1941, large numbers of young men ranging in age from 18-38. were conscripted into the Turkish army from the Greek and Armenian communities The Turkish intention was to exterminate these young men through the well-known method of "forced-labour battalions". If this extermination plan was not successful it was due to protests from the Western allies and the defeat of the Germans in Stalingrad in December 1942. Seeing the tides of war shifting, the Turkish authorities permitted the discharge of these soldiers. On 11 Noverriber 1942, the Turkish government passed a law regarding taxation of property of non-muslims, known as the VA RLIK VE RGISI. Through this !aw non-muslim citiizens had to submit, without the right to appeal, to the discretion and arbitrary judgment of the tax clerks. The tax clerks, in turn, were instructed to appraise property at amounts many times over the actual value of each property. Then, if the individual concerned was unable to make payments of the enormous tax share (quota), the property was seized and the unfortunate owners were exiled to ACKALE, in Anatolia. As a result (of the use) of these harsh and inhuman measures, by 1955 only 25,000 people were left, rather than the 450,000 that should have been their number given a normal rate of growth in 35 years. On the night of the 6th September 1955, and using the Cyprus situation as a pretext, the Turks dealt the coupdegrace to the remaining inhabitants. The whole story of this pogrom is as follows : On Saturday the 3rd of September, 1955, the wife of the Turkish Consul in Thessaloniki asked for, and received, from a photographer in Thessaloniki supposedly for a keep-sake a series of photographs and films of the Turkish Consulate and the neighboring home where Kemal Ataturk was born. The very next day she and her family left for Turkey. At ten past midnight on the 6th of September,1955, in the garden of the Consulate, between the two buildings, dynamite exploded resulting in broken windows in both buildings. The Greek authorities rushed immediately to the scene. They established that two more explosive devices had been positioned in the Consulate yard and that within the building there was only one Turkish guard. In the investigation that followed it was determined that the explosives were placed there by the guard and his accomplice, a Turkish student at the Law School of the University of Thessaloniki, Oktai Egin Faik, who had brought the dynamite from Turkey a few days earlier. On the 6th of September, Turkish newspapers using forged versions of the photos of the Turkish consul's wife and even before the explosion took place in Greece, depicted Kemal's birthplace as totally destroyed. By the evening, newspapers all over Turkey knew of the alleged destruction of Kemal's home setting off waves of anger among the Turkish populace. The Turkish authorities then transported large groups of people in trains and military vehicles from Anatolia to Constantinople. The attack by the angry mobs began at 5:50 P.M on the 6th of September 1955 and ended at 02:00 A.M on the 7th of September 1955. The police calmly assisted and even guided the mobs, in their relentless path of destruction. At 00:20 A.M on the 7th of September 1955 martial law was finally declared, at 02:00 A.M curfew began and at 02 : 30 A.M the authorities had restored a semblance of order. Screaming slogans "Today your property, tomorrow your lives" the mobs had perpetrated terrible crimes. Those who guided them knew that by terrorizing the last Greek residents of Constantinople they would compel them to desert their homeland, once and for all. Simultaneously by destroying monuments which were proof of the glorious Greek past of Constantinople, they would eradicate even future reminders of the Greek presence. The results of the vandalisms were : the Theological School of Halki, the Marasleios School, The Monestary of Valoukli, the Zappeio School for Girls and many other sites, suffered great damage. of the 83 Greek Orthodox churches in the 59 were burned and most others suffered serious damage to the icons and ancient paintings of great value. the tombs of Patriarchs were destroyed, Christian cemeteries and ossuaries were defiled ; 3,000 homes were looted and destroyed ; 4348 Greek stores were looted and destroyed ; 200 Greek women were raped ; hundreds of Greeks were ill-treated or tortured, such as the old Bishop of Derkon Iakovos; the metropolitan of Ilioupolis Yennadios, whose beard was cut off and who was then dragged through the streets so that he would die shortly thereafter from ill-treatment; and Bishop Pamphilou Yennadios that was thrown into the burned ruins of Valoukli; 15 Greeks were murdered and among them a 90 year old monk at the Valoukli Monastery, Chrys. Mantas, who was burned alive. Many others in the monastery were seriously wounded. After the pogrom a great portion of the Greek population left Constantinople to save their lives. On the 20th of September,1975, in a special 35 page Survey section of the influential English magazine, The Economist, it was written : "Turkish charges that the Moslem population in Western Thrace is harried by the Greek authorities are gross exaggerations. In 1923 there were 300,000 Greeks living in Constantinople and 110,000 Turks living in Thrace. Today, there are 15,000 Greeks living in Istanbul and 120,000 Turks in Thrace. The Greeks ask, with some justification, which country has been putting the pressure on which minority". (Survey-15). It is important for us to realize that at the time tha this article was written (1982), only 4,000 Greeks still remain in Constantinople. Taken from "The Turkish Crime of the Century" web site.

81 I guess every nation has its pride. This is the turkish side!!! Congratulations because you are a nation that has inspired others!!!!!!

82 KEMAL EAT YOUR KEBAB AND SHUT THE FUCK UP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

83 HEY YOU "GYROS SCUMBAGS", WHY SO PANICKING?? TAKE IT EASY, GAYS. TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND JUST FUCKING ACCEPT THE WE TURKS FUCKED YOU IN ALL CENTURIES (EXCEPTIONALLY WELL DURING THE OTTOMAN POWER, WHICH LASTED MORE THAN 400 BLOODY YEARS!!!) BELOW, YOU WILL FIND THE PROOF WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY TAKEN FROM THE TOP FROM ONE OF YOUR LITTLE GREEK SHIT BAGS WHICH SAYS AGAINST SLAVS, YOU IDIOTS. BUT AGAIN, YOU NEVER REALLY WERE GOOD IN ENGLISH AT SCHOOL, THAT'S YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT RIGHT. "... You people are just a few rejected slavs who have no identity and try to steal history from my people..." Posted by: Pete the Greek at December 2, 2004 09:59 AM WE WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU AGAIN SOMETIMES IN THE NEAR FUTURE...BUT THIS TIME "SHOW NO MERCY" (SLAYER) TO THE FUCKING GREEKS. OH MAN IT IS FUCKING EASY FOR US TO COMPLETELY WIPE YOUR ASSES OUT. YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW THAT AND YOUR GENERATION (THE LAST ONE OF GREECE) WILL FEEL IT VERY SOON.

84 FOR ALL YOU GREEKS THAT THINK YOU WERE NEVER INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE HUMAN CRIMES AGAINST YOUR OWN CIVILIANS. LOOK BELOW FOR EVIDENCE AND YOU'LL FIND PLENTY OF GENOCIDES CAUSED BY GREEKS DURING THE CYPRUS CIVIL WAR, YOU STUPID SON OF THE BITCHES: Cyprus Briefing Note The Greek Cypriots claim that the Cyprus problem was caused by the landing of Turkish troops in 1974 and that if only they would withdraw, the problem would be solved. This is a serious misconception, forth modern Cyprus question began in 1960 and the landing of Turkish troops was the consequence, not the cause, of the problem. The Greek Cypriot journalist Aleccos Constantinides, writing in Alithia on 14.12.85 said that Greek Cypriot political parties "are acting as if the Cyprus problem began and ended in 1974. They refrain from talking about the previous coups. The first coup was not in 1974, but only a few years after we had attained our independence in 1960. Had it not been for the first coup there would not have been the 1974 coup." Moreover, there were two military actions in 1974; the first was by Greece on 15th July, which caused the second by Turkey on 20th July. The inhabitants of Cyprus have no common language except English and no common religion; nor have they, except at the surface, any common culture. In March 1963 Archbishop Makarios said "The (Independence) Agreements have created a State, but not a Nation." (The Greek Cypriot Cyprus Mail 28.3.63) This being so, any approach to the Cyprus question which regards Cypriots as a nation is fundamentally flawed. "The famous Cypriot consciousness was invented and encouraged by the British in the 1920s." Prodromos Prodromou The Guardian 30th January 1995 There are two peoples of Cyprus - the Turkish Cypriots numbering about 200.000 and the Greek Cypriots numbering about 500.000. The Turkish Cypriots are mainly Moslems and the Greek Cypriots are mainly adherents of the Greek Orthodox Church. Cyprus has never been part of the Greek state. It lies 40 miles from the coast of Turkey, and Turkish people have inhabited the island since the 12th century. Cyprus is 250 miles from the nearest Greek island (Rhodes), and Athens is 460 miles away. The Cyprus question can be stated shortly as follows: The partnership republic formed in 1960 between the two peoples of Cyprus broke down in 1963. For the time being, Greek and Turkish Cypriots live apart. Does the future of Cyprus lie in a new political integration or in an arms length relationship based on willing and active co-operation between two peoples, each secure in its own sovereign territory and each with its own customs, traditions and identity? No solution to the Cyprus problem will work unless it is freely accepted by the inhabitants of the island who will have to live with it. Otherwise, there will be bloodshed again and there could be war between Turkey and Greece. There is therefore no point in trying to put pressure on Greece or Turkey to force either or both of the parties in Cyprus to accept the unacceptable. On 15th August 1996 The Daily Telegraph wrote "Turkish Cypriots have constitutional right on their side and understandably fear a renewal of persecution if the Turkish army withdraws. Almost nowhere in the world is there a lasting peace that is not based on people's rights to govern themselves." Everyone who wishes Cyprus well prefers to look to the future but some commentators will readily use the events of 1974 to argue that the present state of affairs is unacceptable. They do not however go back before 20th July 1974, and refusal to consider the preceding 15 years means that important legal and political issues wrongly determined in favour of the Greek Cypriots remain undisturbed and remain a continuing source of tension between the former partners. The most important of these issues is international acceptance of the Greek Cypriot regime as the government of all Cyprus and refusal to recognise the right of the Turkish Cypriots to establish their own state. It is therefore necessary to look in some detail at the reasons why the present situation has arisen and why, in consequence, both sides and particularly the less numerous Turkish Cypriots need reliable safeguards for their future. One of the most remarkable features of the Cyprus question is the extent to which the Greek Cypriots have been able to repudiate solemn international agreements and violate the human rights of the Turkish Cypriots on a massive scale and yet by a quite astonishing feat of public relations, have secured for themselves recognition as the government of all Cyprus and have persuaded the world that they, and not the Turkish Cypriots, are the injured party. The consequence of this is that they have been able to extract one sided resolutions from the United Nations and other international organisations, and have been able to secure court judgments based on the fact of recognition which have been immensely damaging to the Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriots have, for more than thirty years, been deprived of an official voice in the world and have been deprived of the financial resources to match the Greek Cypriots in the presentation of their case to the world community. For more than thirty years - ever since the overthrow of the 1960 Agreement - the Turkish Cypriots and their government have been faced with one of the hardest tasks in the whole range of international affairs - how to get the world to change its mind after it has got hold of the wrong end of the stick and clung to it year after year. Causes of the 1974 Intervention Britain decided to decolonise the island, and in the House of Commons on 19th December 1956 the Colonial Secretary, Alan Lennox-Boyd, pledged that "it will be the purpose of Her Majesty's Government to ensure that any exercise of self-determination should be effected in such a manner that the Turkish Cypriot community, no less than the Greek Cypriot community, shall in the special circumstances of Cyprus be given freedom to decide for themselves their future status." Although by then the Greek Cypriots were more numerous, the Turkish Cypriots had lived in Cyprus as a distinct community for more than 400 years; and in exercise of their right of self-determination they were willing to join in forming a new Republic embracing the whole of the island (less the British sovereign bases) only if that basic fact of political life in Cyprus was formally recognised. The Turkish Cypriots would never have agreed to subject themselves to unlimited Greek Cypriot rule, and would have fought for their survival as a free people with whatever help they could get. The alternatives were two separate states, a condominium, division of the island between Greece and Turkey, restoration to Turkey under the 1878 Lease, or continued British rule. The negotiations in Zurich and London preceding independence were long and difficult, but it was eventually agreed by way of compromise between all five participants; Britain, Greece, Turkey, the Turkish Cypriots, and the Greek Cypriots; that the new state would be a bi-communal Republic with a single territory but a unique Constitution which embodied an agreed political partnership between Greek and Turkish Cypriots, and which prohibited the political or economic union of Cyprus with any other state. At the conclusion of the negotiations the Greek Cypriot leader, Archbishop Makarios, said "Sending cordial good wishes to all the Greeks and Turks of Cyprus, I greet with joy the Agreement reached and proclaim with confidence that this day will be the beginning of a new period of progress and prosperity for our country". On 6th March 1959, President Eisenhower endorsed the agreement as "a victory for common sense" an "imaginative act of statesmanship" and "a splendid achievement." (US Dep. of State Bulletin p.367). In the first Presidential elections in Cyprus Mr.John Clerides (father of Glafcos Clerides) stood against Makarios on a platform of opposition to the 1960 Agreements and lost by a majority of two to one of the Greek Cypriot electorate. The bi-communal structure was fundamental to the 1960 accords, on the basis of which the Republic of Cyprus achieved independence, and recognition as a sovereign state from the international community. Accordingly, from its very inception the Republic of Cyprus was never a unitary state in which there is only one electorate with a majority and minority. The two communities were political equals and each existed as a political entity, just as both large and small states exist within the structure of the European Union. They did not however have the same constitutional rights because the agreements took into account the fact that there were more Greek Cypriots than Turkish Cypriots. The UN Secretary-General confirmed in 1992 (UN doc.S/24472) that sovereignty "emanates equally from both communities. One community cannot claim sovereignty over the other." Knowing that they could not enforce the 1960 agreement themselves, the Turkish Cypriots would never have agreed to join the new Republic if the Greek Cypriots had not accepted a Treaty of Guarantee which gave Turkey a legal right to intervene, with troops if necessary. The parties to the Treaty were the United Kingdom, Turkey, Greece, and the Republic of Cyprus. Independence was formally granted on 16th August 1960. The case of Cyprus is sui generis, for there is no other State in the world which came into being as a result of two politically equal peoples coming together by the exercise by each of its sovereign right of self-determination, to create a unique legal relationship, which was guaranteed by international treaty, to which each of them consented. Constitution Ignored It became clear very soon after independence that the Greek Cypriots did not intend to abide by the Constitution, and that their entry into that solemn legal obligation with the Turkish Cypriots and the Guarantor Powers in 1960 had been a deception. On 28th July 1960 the Greek Cypriot President Makarios said "the agreements do not form the goal -they are the present and not the future. The Greek Cypriot people will continue their national cause and shape their future in accordance with THEIR will. In a speech on 4th September 1962, at Panayia, Makarios said "Until this Turkish community forming part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered terminated." The Turkish Cypriots were-told by the outside world to take no notice of statements of this kin. They were told that they were just rhetoric, or were for internal consumption within the Greek Cypriot community. However, the Turkish Cypriots were to discover very soon that when Greek Cypriot leaders make statements of that kind they should be taken seriously. Similar statements are still being made by Greek Cypriot leaders today, and Turkish Cypriots are still being urged not to take them seriously. The Constitution provided that separate municipalities be established for Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. The Greek Cypriots refused to obey this mandatory provision and in order to encourage them to do so the Turkish Cypriots said they would not vote for the Government's taxation proposals. The Greek Cypriots remained intransigent, so the Turkish Cypriots took the matter to the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus. The court comprised one Greek Cypriot judge, one Turkish Cypriot judge, and a neutral President. In February 1963 (Cyprus Mail 12.2.63) Archbishop Makarios declared on behalf of the Greek Cypriots that if the Court ruled against them they would ignore it. On 25th April 1963 the Court did rule against them and they did ignore it. The President of the Court (a German citizen) resigned and the rule of law in Cyprus collapsed. Even Greece was embarrassed by this behaviour. On 19th April 1963, Foreign Minister Averoff had written to Makarios "It is not permissible for Greece in any circumstances to accept the creation of a precedent by which one of the contracting parties can unilaterally abrogate or ignore provisions that are irksome to it in international acts which this same party has undertaken to respect." In November 1963 the Greek Cypriots went further, and demanded the abolition of no less than eight of the basic articles which had been included in the 1960 Agreement for the protection of the Turkish Cypriots, to which abolition the Turkish Cypriots naturally refused to agree. The aim was to reduce the Turkish Cypriot people to the status of a mere minority, wholly subject to the control of the Greek Cypriots, pending their ultimate destruction or expulsion from the island. The UK House of Commons Select Committee on Foreing Affairs reviewed the Cyprus question in 1987 (H.C.no.23 of 1986-87), and reported unanimously on 2nd July that, "Although the Cyprus Government now claims to have been merely seeking to "operate the 1960 Constitution modified to the extent dictated by the necessities of the situation", this claim ignores the fact that both before and after the events of December 1963, the Makarios Government continued to advocate the cause of ENOSIS and actively pursued the amendments of the Constitution and the related treaties to facilitate this ultimate objective. Insofar as the Constitution became unworkable, it was because the Greek Cypriot leadership refused to fulfil the obligations to which they had agreed. The doctrine of necessity in international law applies to supervening impossibility due to extraneous and unforseen causes. It does not apply to self-induced causes. There is in particular no doctrine of necessity known to international law which could justify the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children. The Committee continued: "Moreover in June 1967 the Greek Cypriot legislature unanimously passed a resolution in favour of ENOSIS, in blatant contravention of the 1960 Treaties and Constitution." (Art. 1 of the Treaty of Guarantee declares prohibited any action likely to promote directly or indirectly union with any other state or partition of the island, and Art. 185(2) of the Constitution is to similar effect). At Christmas 1963 the Greek Cypriot militia attacked Turkish Cypriot communities across the island, and very many men, women, and children were killed. 270 of their mosques, shrines and other places of worship were desecrated. On 2nd January 1964 the Daily Telegraph wrote "The Greek Cypriot community should not assume that the British military presence can or should secure them against Turkish intervention if they persecute the Turkish Cypriots. We must not be a shelter for double-crossers." Thereafter Turkish Cypriot MP's, judges, and other officials were intimidated or prevented by force from carrying out their duties. At para.28 the Select Committee said "The effect of the crisis of December 1963 was to deliver control of the formal organs of Government into the hands of the Greek Cypriots alone. Claiming to be acting in accordance with "the doctrine of necessity" the Greek Cypriot members of the House of Representatives enacted a series of laws which provided for the operation of the organs of government without Turkish Cypriot participation." The Select Committee continued at para, 29 "Equally damaging from the Turkish Cypriot point of view was what they considered to be their effective exclusion from representation at, and participation in, the international fora were their case could have been deployed ......." "An official Turkish Cypriot presence in the international political scene virtually disappeared overnight." It is not therefore surprising that the world has been persuaded to the Greek Cypriot point of view. The United Nations not only failed to condemn the usurpation of the legal order in Cyprus by force, but actually rewarded it by treating the by then wholly Greek Cypriot administration as if it were the Government of Cyprus (Security Council Res. 186 of 1964). This acceptance has continued to the present day, and reflects no credit upon the United Nations, nor upon Britain and the other countries who have acquiesced in it. On 12th August 1964 the UK Representative to the UN wrote to his government in London as follows: "What is our policy and true feelings about the future of Cyprus and about Makarios? Judging from the English newspapers and many others, the feeling is very strong indeed against Makarios and his so-called government and nothing would please the British people more than to see him toppled and the Cyprus problem solved by the direct dealings between the Turks and the Greeks. We are of course supporting the latter course, but I have never seen any expression of the official disapproval in public against Makarios and his evil doings. Is there an official view about this, and what do we think we should do in the long run? Sometimes it seems that the obsession of some people with "the Commonwealth" blinds us to everything else and it would be high treason to take a more active line against Makarios and his henchmen. At other times the dominant feature seems to be concern lest active opposition against Makarios should lead to direct conflict with the Cypriots and end up with our losing our bases. I ask these questions, partly for background and partly because it really would be useful to know how far you feel we really are inhibited from taking up a more actively hostile attitude to the Greek Cypriots. Their representative here is, as you know, a horror, and even the communists are thoroughly fed up with him, and it is therefore really not necessary for us to do anything more to weaken his position. But it is curious and sometimes very frustrating to sit in the Security Council and walk around the UN and have to listen to all the stuff about the wickedness of the Turks and their threats of invasion, when I and all my staff know very well what the real state of affairs is and how much Makarios and co. are to blame. One can say what one thinks of course to a few people, but one cannot produce the evidence or argue the case fully with the vast majority of my UN colleagues so long as the official public attitude seems to be not to say anything rude about Makarios and his gang. These, I realise, are not entirely easy questions and I suspect that the answers may well depend on differences of view and attitude at your end, revolving round such questions as the Commonwealth and the truth about our defence needs. Nevertheless I hope you can give us some of your real thoughts, if only for our private consumption. It would be a help to know what the thinking and the planning is and how far and for how long it is going to be necessary to continue to behave in, what at times does appear an unrealistic way and contrary to the popular feeling in Britain." Massacres of Turkish Cypriot Civilians The civilian massacres of 1963, 1964, 1967 and 1974 are of such importance to an understanding of the Turkish Cypriot negotiating position to this day that no apology is made for quoting from the contemporary reports in some detail. "When the Turkish Cypriots objected to the amendment of the constitution Makarios put his plan into effect, and the Greek Cypriot attack began in December 1963" - Lt.Gen. George Karayiannis of the Greek Cypriot militia ("Ethnikos Kiryx" 15.6.65). The General is referring to the notorious "Akritas" plan, which was the blueprint for the annihilation of the Turkish Cypriots and the annexation of the island to Greece. On 28th December 1963 the Daily Express carried the following report from Cyprus: "We went tonight into the sealed-off Turkish Cypriot Quarter of Nicosia in which 200 to 300 people had been slaughtered in the last five days. We were the first Western reporters there and we have seen sights too frightful to be described in print. Horror so extreme that the people seemed stunned beyond tears." On 12th January 1964 the British High Commission in Nicosia wrote to London (telegram no. 162) "The Greek (Cypriot) police are led by extremists who provoked the fighting and deliberately engaged in atrocities. They have recruited into their ranks as "special constables" gun-happy young thugs. They threaten to try and punish any Turkish Cypriot police who wish to return to Cyprus Government... Makarios assured Sir Arthur Clark that there will be no attack. His assurance is as worthless as previous assurances have proved." On 14th January 1964 the Daily Telegraph reported that the Turkish Cypriot inhabitants of Ayios Vassilious had been massacred on 26th December 1963, and reported their exhumation from a mass grave in the presence of the Red Cross. A further massacre of Turkish-Cypriots, at Limassol, was reported by The Observer on 16th February 1964, and there were many more. On 17th February 1964 the Washington Post reported that Greek Cypriot fanatics appear bent on a policy of genocide. On 1st January 1964 the Daily Herald reported: "When I came across the Turkish Cypriot homes they were an appalling sight. Apart from the walls they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm attack could have created more devastation. Under roofs which had caved in I found a twisted mass of bed springs, children's cots, and grey ashes of what had once been tables, chairs and wardrobes. In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios I counted 16 wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot. In neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house." On 31st December 1963 "The Guardian" reported: "It is nonsense to claim, as the Greek Cypriots do, that all casualties were caused by fighting between armed men of both sides. On Christmas Eve many Turkish Cypriot people were brutally attacked and murdered in their suburban homes, including the wife and children of a doctor -allegedly by a group of forty men, many in army boots and greatcoats." Although the Turkish Cypriots fought back as best they could, and killed some militia, there were no massacres of Greek Cypriot civilians. On 10th September 1964 the Secretary-General reported (UN doc.S/5950): "UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances,.......it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2.000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs." British troops in Cyprus at the time did what they could to protect the Turkish Cypriot, and their efforts are remembered to this day, but the scale and ferocity of the Greek Cypriot attacks made their task impossible. On 6th February 1964 a British patrol found armed Greek Cypriot police attacking the Turkish Cypriot of Ayios Sozomenos. They were unable to stop the attack. On 13th February 1964 the Greeks and Greek Cypriots attacked the Turkish Cypriot quarter of Limassol with tanks, killing 16 and injuring 35. On 15th February 1964 "The Daily Telegraph" reported: "It is a real military operation which the Greek Cypriots launched against the six thousand inhabitants of the Turkish Cypriot Quarter yesterday morning. A spokesman for the Greek Cypriot Government has recognised this officially. It is hard to conceive how Greek and Turkish Cypriots may seriously contemplate working together after all that has happened." Professor Ernst Forsthoff, the neutral President of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus told Die Welt on 27th December 1963 "Makarios bears on his shoulders the sole responsibility of the recent tragic events. His aim is to deprive the Turkish community of their rights." In an interview with UPI press agency on 30th December 1963 he said: "All this happened because Makarios wanted to remove all constitutional rights from the Turkish Cypriots." More than 300 Turkish Cypriots are still missing without trace from these massacres of 1963/64. These dreadful events were not the responsibility of "the Greek Colonels" of 1974, or an unrepresentative handful of Greek Cypriot extremists. The persecution of the Turkish Cypriots was an act of policy on the part of the Greek Cypriot political and religious leadership, which has to this day made no serious attempt to bring the murderers to justice. The UK Commons Select Committee found that, "There is little doubt that much of the violence which the Turkish Cypriots claim led to the total or partial destruction of 103 Turkish villages and the displacement of about a quarter of the total Turkish Cypriot population, was either directly inspired by, or certainly connived at, by the Greek Cypriot leadership". The Greek Cypriots sometimes allege that it was they who were attacked, by the Turkish Cypriots, who were determined to wreck the 1960 agreements. However, the Turkish Cypriots were not only outnumbered by nearly four to one; they were also surrounded in their villages by armed Greek Cypriots; they had no way of protecting their women and children, and Turkey was 40 miles away across the sea. The very idea that in those circumstances the Turkish Cypriots were the aggressors, is absurd. In his memoirs, the American Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said "Makarios's central interest was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots. Obviously we would never permit that." The fact is however that neither the US, the UK, the UN, nor anyone, other than Turkey eleven years later, ever took effective action to prevent it. Division of the Island The Turkish Cypriots were forced to withdraw into defended enclaves, and it was in 1964, not in 1974, that Cyprus was divided. The Turkish Cypriots had to establish an elected authority to govern themselves whilst confined in their enclaves. On 14th January 1964 "I1 Giorno" of Italy reported: "Right now we are witnessing the exodus of Turkish Cypriots from the villages. Thousands of people abandoning homes, land, herds. Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This time the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the statues of Plato do not cover up their barbaric and ferocious behaviour." The UN Secretary-General reported to the Security Council (UN doc.S/8286): "When the disturbances broke out in December 1963 and continued during the first part of 1964 thousands of Turkish-Cypriots fled their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in safer villages and areas." Greek Cypriots often claim that the Turkish Cypriots withdrew voluntarily from their positions in the State, but this is not correct. They were excluded by threats to their personal safety. Further, the Commons Select Committee found that "When in July 1965 the Turkish Cypriot members of the House of Representatives had sought to resume their seats they were told that they could do so only if they accepted the legislative changes to the operation of the Constitution enacted in their absence" (ie. if they agreed to fundamental constitutional changes to the great disadvantage of their community, imposed upon them by force of arms). Accordingly, even if there had been any substance to Greek Cypriot claims that they were operating the government alone of necessity because the Turkish Cypriots were leaving their places vacant, there can be no justification for that claim after July 1965. The Select Committee continued: "In February 1966 Makarios declared that the 1960 Agreements had been abrogated and buried." In September 1964 the Secretary-General had reported to the Security Council (UN doc. 5950): "In addition to losses incurred in agriculture and in industry during the first part of the year, the Turkish Cypriot community had lost other sources of its income including the salaries of over 4000 persons who were employed by the Cyprus Government." The trade of the Turkish Cypriot community had considerably declined during the period, and unemployment reached a very high level of approximately 25000 breadwinners. Turkish-Cypriots had become refugees in their own land. On 10th September 1964 the UN Secretary-General reported "The economic restrictions being imposed against the Turkish Cypriot communities, which in some instances has been so severe as to amount to veritable siege, indicated that the Government of Cyprus seeks to force a potential solution by economic pressure." (UN doc. S/5950). On 24th July 1965 the United Kingdom formally protested the unlawful action of the Greek Cypriots, but continued to deal with them as the Government of Cyprus, and took no effective action to stop them doing as they pleased. In his memoirs published in 1987 former British Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister, James Callaghan, records that, "there is no question that the Turkish Cypriots had for many years been denied their political rights under the 1960 Constitution, and their basic human rights". The United Nations, the Commonwealth and the rest of the world have put political expediency before principle, and failed to condemn this appalling behaviour. Greek Cypriots are guilty of attempted genocide but no action has ever been taken against them. Instead they have been rewarded by recognition as the Government of all Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots by contrast were frozen out of the UN, the Commonwealth and almost every other international organisation, and were not allowed to be heard when many important decisions affecting their future were made. Resolution 186 of 4th March 1964 is the first UN Security Council Resolution which recognised the Greek Cypriot regime as the "Government of Cyprus." The status conferred by this act of betrayal by the United Nations itself has enabled the Greek Cypriots for more than thirty years to treat the Turkish Cypriots as a mere community, to take most of the international aid for themselves, to embargo Turkish Cypriot trade and communications with the outside world, to occupy the Cyprus chair in all international institutions, and to convince the world that they, and not the Turkish Cypriots are the injured party. Sir Anthony Kershaw MC, MP, Chairman of the UK House of Commons Select Committee on Foreign Affairs until 1987 explained in a speech in Cyprus on 23rd October 1990 how the UN came to accept the Greek Cypriots as the Cyprus Government: "It was decided that UN troops should be sent to preserve order, but the UN can only send troops if the legal government of the country concerned asks for them. The only organisation which could in 1964 be called the Government of Cyprus was the administration headed by Makarios. The Turkish Cypriots pointed out that this was not the legal government of Cyprus but such was the pressure of the times that the UN said: Look your people are dying - let's get the troops out right away and the lawyers can sort it out later. So it was decided, but since that time the UN has treated the Greek Cypriots as the only government of Cyprus, basing this upon a treaty and a constitution which had been repudiated and broken by the Greek Cypriot government itself. I do not deny that the Greek Cypriot government is the de facto government of the South of Cyprus. It has all the attributes of sovereignty, but so has the government of Northern Cyprus." In the opinion of Mr.Monroe Leigh, the distinguished American international lawyer "The mere fact of international recognition, no matter how widespread, cannot excuse or confer legitimacy upon the violations of both constitutional law and international treaty law through which the Greek Cypriot regime usurped the name as well as the government of the Republic of Cyprus." (Written opinion 20.7.1990). In 1965 the UN General Assembly actually went so far, in Resolution 2077, as to express its confidence in the goodwill and humanity of the Greek Cypriot regime, which had been shown on the clearest possible evidence to have dishonoured international agreements, overthrown constitutional government, and violated human rights on a massive scale. The Events of 1974 In 1971 General Grivas returned to Cyprus to form EOKA-B, which was again committed to making Cyprus a wholly Greek island and annexing it to Greece. In a speech to the Greek Cypriot armed forces (Quoted in "New Cyprus" May 1987), Grivas said. "The Greek forces from Greece have come to Cyprus in order to impose the will of the Greeks of Cyprus upon the Turks. We want ENOSIS but the Turks are against it. We shall impose our will. We are strong and we shall do so." Greek Invasion By 15th July 1974 a powerful force of mainland Greek troops had assembled in Cyprus and with their backing the Greek Cypriot National Guard overthrew Makarios and installed Nicos Sampson as "President." On 22nd July Washington Star News reported: "Bodies littered the streets and there were mass burials... People told by Makarios to lay down their guns were shot by the National Guard." Turkish Cypriots appealed to the Guarantor powers for help, but only Turkey was willing to make any effective response. The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on 26th February 1981 in which he said "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS - I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus." Even Greek Cypriots sought Turkey's help. In her memoirs, Greek Cypriot MP Rina Katselli, says "16th July 1974 Is Makarios alive? Is he dead? The Makarios supporters arrested, the EOKA-B supporters freed... I did not shed a tear, why should I? Did the stupidity and fanaticism deserve a tear? There are some who beg Turkey to intervene. They prefer the intervention of Turkey." 18th July 1974 "My God!... Everyone is frozen with fear..the old man who asked for the body of his son was shot on the spot..The tortures and executions at the central prison... everyone is frozen with horror. Nothing is sacred to these people, and they call themselves Greeks!... we must not keep that name any longer." go to top Missing Persons No human tragedy has been the subject of such blatant political exploitation as the case of missing persons in Cyprus. For more than twenty years Greek Cypriot governments have deceived their people into thinking that their loved ones might still be alive, but in October 1995 they had to admit that not only were many of them known to be dead, but that the whereabouts of their remains were also known, and had been withheld from their families. Some were not even missing. Andreas Mayas (Missing Person no.572), was receiving a state pension. On 3rd March 1996 the Greek Cypriot Cyprus Mail wrote: "(Greek) Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool." On 19th October 1996 Mr.Georgios Lanitis wrote: "I was serving with the Foreign Information Service of the Republic of Cyprus in London.... I deeply apologise to all those I told that there are 1.619 missing persons. I misled them. I was made a liar, deliberately, by the Government of Cyprus.... today it seems that the credibility of Cyprus is nil." On 17th April 1991 Ambassador Nelson Ledsky testified before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee that "Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974, before the Turkish intervention on the 20th. Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson." On 19th July 1974, before the Turkish army landed, Archbishop Makarios told the UN Security Council "I do not yet know the details of the Cyprus crisis caused by the Greek military regime. I am afraid that the number of losses is great... I considered the danger from Turkey lesser than the danger from Greek army officers." The Greek newspaper TA NEA published an interview on 28th February 1976 with Father Papatsestos, the Greek Orthodox priest in charge of the Nicosia cemetery. He recounted the events of 17th July 1974 when Greek officers required him to bury truckloads of Greek Cypriots in mass graves, together with one young Greek Cypriot whom they buried alive, and ten dead Turkish Cypriots. This one priest counted at least 127 bodies brought to him, and there must have been many similar incidents throughout the island. On 22nd July 1974 The Times reported that "a production Director from Dublin said he had seen bodies being buried in a mass grave near Paphos after last Monday's coup. People were told by Makarios to lay down their guns and were shot out of hand by the National Guard, he said." On 6th November 1974 TA NEA reported the erasure of dates from the graves of Greek Cypriots killed in the five days 15th - 20th July, in order to blame their deaths on the subsequent Turkish military action. On 5th March 1996, US Ambassador Ledsky confirmed that there is no evidence that any of the missing persons is still alive. go to top Turkey Responds In his book "The Way the Wind Blows" former British Prime Minister, Sir Alec Douglas-Home said "I was convinced that if Archbishop Makarios could not bring himself to treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings he was inviting the invasion and partition of the island." US Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said "Makarios central interest was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots" "Turkish Cypriots, who had suffered from physical attacks since 1963, called on the guarantor powers to prevent a Greek conquest of the island. When Britain did nothing Turkey invaded Cyprus and occupied its northern part." (Daily Telegraph 15.8.96) Turkey (at that time led by the Social Democrat Prime Minister Bülent Ecevit) sent troops to Cyprus on 20th July 1974. "On 20th July 1974 Turkey intervened under Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee" - (UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office doc. CPS/75. Jan., 1987). "Turkey exercised its right of intervention in accordance with Article IV of the Guarantee Treaty of 1960." (Resolution 573, Standing Committee of the Consultative Assembly of the Council of Europe, 29th July 1974). The 1976 UK House of Commons Select Committee on Cyprus found (HC 331 1975/76 para.22), that Turkey had proposed joint Anglo-Turkish action under the Treaty of Guarantee. On 14th August 1974 (Daily Telegraph 15th August) Prime Minister Ecevit confirmed that he had indeed traveled to London to urge Anglo-Turkish intervention. However the then Labour Government in Britain refused to take any effective action, even though they had troops and aircraft available in their Sovereign Bases in Cyprus. They argued that Britain was under no duty to take military action, but Article II provided that Britain would guarantee the state of affairs established by the 1960 Constitution, which it manifestly failed to do. The Select Committee concluded that "Britain had a legal right to intervene, she had a moral obligation to intervene. She did not intervene for reasons which the (Labour) Government refuses to give." In an article on 28th February 1976 in the Greek Cypriot press Father Papatsestos said: "In is a rather hard thing to say, but it is true that the Turkish intervention saved us from a merciless internecine war. The Sampson regime had prepared a list of all Makarios supporters, and they would have slaughtered them all." Many of the people saved by Turkey are members of the present Greek Cypriot leadership. During the fighting with Turkish troops between 20th July and 16th August 1974 many Greek Cypriots died in combat. So far as possible their bodies were recovered and identified by Turkish forces. There were very few deaths of Greek Cypriots civilians. The balance of probabilities is therefore that of those Greek Cypriots still listed as missing most were killed during the Sampson coup of 15th - 20th July 1974, and that others died in combat. Some are in mass graves such as those described by Father Papatsestos, and the remainder have no known grave. Those killed in the fighting with the Turkish army would not have died if the Greek Cypriots and Greece had not tried to annihilate the Turkish Cypriots and annex the island to Greece, and the blame for their deaths must rest firmly upon their own leadership. Prisoners of War taken by the Turkish Army were sent to Turkey, where they were visited by the Red Cross, and repatriated on 8th August 1974, 16th September 1974, and 28th October 1975 under international supervision. There are not prisoners of war still in Turkey. Until recently however allegations continued to be made of "sightings" of Greek or Greek Cypriots in Turkey, and sometimes photographs were produced. On 17th April 1991 US Ambassador Ledsky told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "The US Ambassador to Turkey has looked into all of these allegations and found there was no substance. The Turkish Government was cooperative and the Turkish and US Governments worked together on this. The subject has been exhausted and we haven't even heard an allegation in two years." In July 1974, after the first phase of the Turkish intervention, an international conference was held at Geneva between Turkey, Greece and Britain. It was agreed that Greek and Greek Cypriot forces would leave all the Turkish Cypriot enclaves, but showing their customary disregard for international agreements they proceeded instead to murder almost the entire civilian population of six Turkish Cypriot enclaves in both the north and south of the island, and despite the presence in Cyprus of UN troops. It is argued that even if the first phase of the Turkish intervention was legal the extension of the area under Turkish control in the second phase from 14th August to 16th August 1974 was illegal. The German newspaper Die Zeit wrote on 30th August 1974 "the massacre of Turkish Cypriots in Paphos and Famagusta is the proof of how justified the Turkish were to undertake their (August) intervention". go to top More Massacres of Turkish Cypriots In the village of Tokhni on 14th August 1974 all the Turkish Cypriot men between the ages of 13 and 74, except for eighteen who managed to escape, were taken away and shot. (Times, Guardian, 21st August) In Zyyi on the same day all the Turkish-Cypriot men aged between 19 and 38 were taken away by Greek-Cypriots and were never seen again. On the same day Greek-Cypriots opened fire in the Turkish-Cypriot neighbourhood of Paphos killing men, women, and children indiscriminately. On 23rd July 1974 the Washington Post reported "In a Greek raid on a small Turkish village near Limassol 36 people out of a population of 200 were killed. The Greeks said that they had been given orders to kill the inhabitants of the Turkish villages before the Turkish forces arrived." (See also Times, Guardian, 23rd July). "The Greeks began to shell the Turkish quarter on Saturday, refugees said. Kazan Dervis, a Turkish Cypriot girl aged 15, said she had been staying with her uncle. The (Greek Cypriot) National Guard came into the Turkish sector and shooting began. She saw her uncle and other relatives taken away as prisoners, and later heard her uncle had been shot." (Times 23.7.74) "Before my uncle was taken away by the soldiers, he shouted to me to run away. I ran to the streets, and the soldiers were shooting all the time. I went into a house and I saw a woman being attacked by soldiers. They were raping her. Then they shot her in front of my eyes. I ran away again and Turkish Cypriot men and women looked after me. They were escaping as well. They broke holes in the sides of houses, so we could get away without going into the streets. There were lots of women and children screaming, and soldiers were firing at us all the time." On 28th July the New York Times reported that 14 Turkish-Cypriot men had been shot in Alaminos. On 24th July 1974 "France Soir" reported "The Greeks burned Turkish mosques and set fire to Turkish homes in the villages around Famagusta. Defenceless Turkish villagers who have no weapons live in an atmosphere of terror and they evacuate their homes and go and live in tere a shame to humanity." On 22nd July Turkish Prime Minister Ecevit called upon the UN to "stop the genocide of Turkish-Cypriots" and declared "Turkey has accepted a cease-fire, but will not allow Turkish-Cypriots to be massacred" (Times 23rd July). At the beginning of the Second Geneva Conference he said "A solution which is not based on geographical separation will not work. It is out of the question for us to entrust the safety of the Turkish Cypriots to the Greeks, who cannot even rule themselves. The areas around the Turkish forces are being mined, and the Turkish Cypriot villages are still under siege." The UK House of Commons Select Committee on Cyprus reported in 1976 "the second phase of military operations was inevitable in the view of your committee as the position reached by Turkish forces at the time of the first ceasefire was untenable militarily" Sir Anthony Kershaw MP explained the situation as follows in his speech on 23rd October 1990: "In order to protect the Turkish Cypriots, Turkey intervened in exercise of her rights under article 4 of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee. No one has ever suggested that was illegal but they have gone on to say that the continuing use of troops, not to restore the 1960 Constitution but to enforce partition was illegal. But does this not ignore the reality of the situation? In law it is said that the Turks were invoking the Guarantee; but to say that they were obliged to work for no result except the restoration of the 1960 Constitution is absurd. That Constitution had ceased to exist. The reconciliation of the law with the actual political situation, or indeed with ordinary common sense, was becoming more difficult. The Turks came to protect the lives of the Turkish Cypriots and they had good reason to know that the restoration of the 1960 Constitution was not the way to do that. The only way to do that was with troops on the ground." "Turkey intervened to protect the lives and property of the Turkish-Cypriots, and to its credit it has done just that. In the 12 years since, there have been no killings and no massacres" Lord Willis (Lab.) House of Lords 17th December 1986 (Hansard, col.223) On 12th March 1977 Makarios declared "It is in the name of ENOSIS that Cyprus has been destroyed." Turkey has since that time encouraged the Turkish Cypriots to negotiate an agreed alternative to the 1960 Republic, and Turkey has supported the acceptance by the Turkish Cypriots of successive UN plans. On 14th June 1986 The Times reported that "the UN Secretary-General had cast his usual diplomatic discretion aside to blame the Greek Cypriot community for obstructing his attempts at a negotiated solution to the Cyprus dispute...The warning was a rare concerted public effort to bring home the message to the Greek Cypriots that time was not on their side. with the Turkish Cypriots having firmly placed themselves in the right by accepting the UN package the door was open for further consolidation of their Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus". By Resolution 889 (1993) the Security Council "welcomes the declared support of the Government of Turkey for the package of confidence-building measures." Greek Cypriots claim that today dreams of ENOSIS are dead. This is improbable so long as the Greek Ortdohox Church has power and influence, but even if it were true the Turkish Cypriots have as much reason to fear Greek Cypriots as Greek domination.

85 again....to learn the truth that all the world knows and you are closing your eyes..... THE FOLLOWING WORDS I FOUND THEM IN THE INTERNET IN DIFFERENT AND ENGLISH SITES AND COPY-PASTED THEM HERE AS IT WAS. I PUT IN THE GOOGLE ''GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE'' AND THE FOLLOWING PHRASES (AND MANY MORE) CAME OUT AS A RESULT IN DIFFERENT ABROAD SITES. # Greece is a country of a rich cultural heritage. Democracy was invented in Athens, Greek culture is the mother of Roman culture and has very much influenced other civilisations. # Ancient Greek culture, particularly as developed in Athens, was the principal source of Western civilization. # Ancient Greece was a great civilization from which came major contributions to present-day society. Greece is the birthplace of the first Olympic games, great minds like Aristotle, Alexander the Great and Plato, and is home to the breathtaking, ancient architecture of the Acropolis in Athens # Greece is the birthplace of civilization # greece is the cradle of western civilization # Greece is the birthplace of the “father of medicine” Hippocrates, who believed the body should be treated as a whole and that food should be medicine # greece is one of the oldest civilizations # greece is the land where the ancient gods chose to reside # The pillar of Western civilization, Greece is the birthplace of democracy and the Olympics, the land of Plato, Sophocles and Homer. Greeks are very proud to show the value of their rich cultural heritage, and Greece has become a popular tourist destination for lovers of old rocks and Mediterranean beaches # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization, having given rise to reason, philosophy, science and democracy # It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of the Gods and mythic heros, as well as other extraordinary personalities such as poets, rheteurs and philosophers who taught the art of reasoning, and discussion. A country where human beings loved working with their hands to create works of art, in which a large number can still be admired today. # Not surprisingly, Greece is the birthplace of contemporary Mediterranean cuisine. While Greece's gifts to Western culture may need no testimony, many are unfamiliar with the hearty, flavorful dishes originating in the Isles # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest civilizations, the legacy of which can still be seen in its numerous monuments throughout the country # Greece is the birthplace of western civilization, the place that launched our history, art and philosophy # Greece, of course, is known not only as the birthplace of history and philosophy, but of classic art. # Greece is the birthplace of western wine culture, spreading their appreciation and expertise throughout the Mediterranean over 4,000 years ago # Greece is the birthplace of western art, philosophy and drama. It is the cornerstone of civilisation and wherever you travel there, you will find evidence of a glorious past. Greece offers travellers a unique blend of beautiful Mediterranean landscape, overwhelming history and great hospitality. # Greece (Hellas) is the birthplace of Democracy and modern conventions. Thousands of years ago, Greece had already gained stature as a democracy nation. Hellas is also the birthplace of the Philosophy, Tragedy, Mathematics, Physics and Biology as well as the Olympic Games. A nation with more than three thousand years history! The Classic Years, the Alexandrine and the Roman Period are in perfect harmony with the Greek-Orthodox Spirit of the Byzantine Times as well as with the Neo-Hellenic (i.e.new-Greek) Culture. Greece is the birthplace of Homeros, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eukleides, Socratis, Plato, Pericles, Sofocles, Democritos, Aristotle and Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the Byzantine Empire was that rescued, developed and spread the Hellenic Civilisation to the other European and Asian Nations. # Greek philosophers and political leaders -- Cleisthenes and Pericles and their successors -- had great influence upon America's Founding Fathers in their creation of these United States. We, as a nation, owe a great debt to Greece. Greece is the birthplace of democracy, as we know it. Thomas Jefferson said, "To the ancient Greeks, we are all indebted for the light which led ourselves (American colonists) out of Gothic darkness." # Greece is the birthplace of democracy. The land that has enriched Western civilization with its history, philosophy and many other academic influences. Geometry, architecture, drama, philanthropy, and music have traveled globally from ancient Greece and have become the foundations of worldly theories, concepts and ideas. Furthermore, the Greek language has enriched other languages with many words. The unique and most delicious Greek cuisine, consists of many specialties, all cooked with care, mastery, love and excellence. The Greek cooking is distinguished with olive oil, herbs, and spices like basil, oregano, daphne, parsley; whilst the original dishes of mousaka, souvlaki and horiatiki salata (to mention a few) decorate each table deliciously. Lastly, let us not forget one of the most important international events which unite each nation in brotherhood, the Olympic Games, born in Greece, 776 B.C. in the spirit of world peace. Each traveler cannot resist the charm of this mystical land. # Greece is the birthplace of the Olympic Games, home of Ulysses, the Argonauts, and hallowed ground to the ancient Olympian gods. Today, a modern infrastructure, new airports, and world-connected communications provide the highest standards of service, both above and below water. A warm, dry climate supports thousands of uninhabited islands surrounded by the cleanest seas in all Europe. People are friendly, traditional, educated, and hospitable. Expect delicious local food, spirited entertainment, and unparalleled sightseeing. # Greece is the birthplace of democracy, theatre, philosophy and sport. # As ancient Greece is the birthplace of democracy, and, indeed the very underpinnings of the American way of life, so too was the American revolution the model for the modern Greek independence movement that began 168 years ago. In fact, Greeks used the United States Declaration of Independence as the archetype for their own declaration. Many American volunteers sailed to Greece to participate in Greece's war for independence. As Will Durant wrote: Greek civilization is alive * * * it moves in every breath of mind we breath * * * so much of it remains that none of us in one lifetime could absorb it all. Greece is the bright morning star of that Western civilization which is our nourishment and life. Indeed, Percy Bysshe Shelly wrote: We are all Greeks! Our laws, our literature, our religion, our art, have their roots in Greece. Herro hera elefteria! Long live freedom! # Greece is the birthplace of athletics # Greece is the birthplace of philosophy # 4,000 years of history and tradition is revealed in front of your eyes, from Mycenae to Olympia and Macedonia, from the incomparable sculptures of the Golden Age (Acropolis, Delphi) to the Byzantine cultural heritage (Mystras, Meteora). Greece is the birthplace of democracy. It is hard to imagine what civilised life would be like today without the influence of ancient Greece. # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest and most glorious civilizations # Ancient Greece is the birthplace of the earliest written western theories about physiology (500-300BC). Hippocrates (circa 460-377BC) makes no mention of the spirit. Plato (circa 428-347BC) proposed that mind and body were separate entities # Greece is the birthplace of the greatest philosophers (Socratis, Thales, Plato, Aristotle), the author of the first great European literary work, Homer, the great tragedy writers (Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus), the father of medicine Hippocrates and so many others! # As scholars have noted, Greece is the birthplace of the art of rhetoric, grammar, and logic. While "many other ancient civilizations produced literature, only the Greeks produced analytic, expository treatises that attempted to discover the actual bases of human communication" (Murphy & Katula, A Synoptic History of Classical Rhetoric, 1994, p. x). # ancient Greece is the birthplace Western philosophy & science, including astronomy. Yes, I know the Egyptians were astronomers too, but that was mainly in Ptolemeic Egypt, which for all intents and purposes was essentially Greece. Sorry to be so droll, but I answer these questions about ten times a week. # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization and modern thought. Greece is the home of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, and of the Olympic Games # Greece is the birthplace of mathematics # GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF DEMOCRACY, THE CREATOR OF SCIENCE AND ART, THE HOME OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND THE BEST PART OF EUROPE. # ...... ..... .. GUYS COOL DOWN...HISTORY IS HISTORY AND THE TRUTH ALWAYS REMAIN TRUTH. NOBODY CAN CHANGE IT. READ OUR HISTORY, IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER PERSONALITIES...http://www.ancientgreece.com/ WHY ANYBODY IN THE WORLD HAVE NOT RECOGNISED ''TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NOTHERN CYPRUS''????AHHHH??? ONLY TURKEY... WHAT ELSE CAN I SAY?? MY NATION IS GLORIOUS. WE LIVE IN THIS REGION FOR 8000 YEARS AND SO. IONIA (ASIA MINOR) HAD TO BE IN GREEK TERITORY. ALSO, CONSTANTINOUPOLI (INSTABUL), EASTERN THRACE, NORTH PART OF MACEDONIA AND NORTH PART OF IPIROUS. ALL THOSE REGIONS WAS GREEK FROM THE ANCIENT TIMES. SO!!!SAY THANKS GOD AND STOP TALKING. WE ARE IN EUROPEAN UNION 25 YEARS. YOU ARE ALL BEGING TO ENTER EU. WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS TO JEALOUS. COME DOWN....AND GIVE US THE RESPECT WE DESERVE. ESPECIALY FOR YOU TURKISH PEOPLE, THE EUROPEANS DOES NOT WANT YOU TO ENTER EU(WHY REALLY????LOL). WE TRY TO CONVISE THEM SO YOU CAN HAVE A CHANCE TO BE A NORMAL COUNTRY. WE TRY TO ENTER ALL OUR NEIGHBORHOODS IN EU,IN ORDER TO MAKE OUR REGION MORE ''EUROPE''. RESPECT AS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BESIDES YOU NEED US SO PROUD TO BE HELLENAS (GREEK)... **GEORGE FROM ATHENS**

86 Hellenas, your thoughts are good and I respect most of them. I Agree with you that History is History and therefore we should learn from mistakes we have done in the past. In order to make a better Europe we need to help each other and also respect each other views, habits, traditions, religions etc. This is the only way to survive and to live in Peace. I can tell you that the only one reason why we are not in the EU yet is because we are a Muslim nation with different views and traditions which reflects somehow a bad picture to the Christian countries within the EU especially when it comes to human rights. However, the day will come when we will join the EU sooner or later because Europe need us as well ie. in terms of geographical and economical aspects. Kind regards to you Hellenas, Iskender

87 to iskinder. I am happy that you agree with me and give respect. We want you in EU. You are neighborhoods and it will be good to both off us. We must forget the past, that is for sure. I just want to say to you that Croatia is a muslim country too, but there are no any reactions in their entrance. We have no problem with muslims. We respect your culture and habits. The same we want for us. last years some FYROMians drive us nuts...we need support to restore some truths..

88 Hellenas, thanks for your response and your opinion about Turkey's entry in the EU. I am always happy if I get to know intellectual people with a common political sense like yourself. Can I just say that Croatia is not a Muslim country. Croatia is 100% Christian and they will join the EU only if they will send their war criminals to Den Haag for what they have done against civilians during the Yugosllavian war. If Turkey were to join the EU we would be the only Nation in Europe ever who is 100% Muslim. I am very interested to know about what is going on with some FYROMians?? and what we can do to find a peaceful solution in order to resolve these issues once and for all? If you can, please give some background information about that as I would be very much interested to know the current status. Talk to you soo, Hellenas. Regards, ISKENDER

89 Dear Iskender Macedonia is a kingdom of ancient greece. Today, after so many years and too many wars, the region of Macedonia is the Nothern part of Greece between Epirus, Thrace and Thessaly. A little part of Northern ancient Macedonia seperated today between Yugoslavia and Bulgaria.Yugoslavia has a 15% bulgaria a 7% and greece has the rest in our territory. After the fall of Yugoslavia, the south region of Yugoslavia, that has in its territory the little nothern piece of Macedonia, wants to be named as the republic of ''Macedonia''. They claim that they are macedonians and that they own the name. Greece, reacted (offcourse) in this and all the situation went in the united nations. Provisionally UN named this country as FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) until a solution come out. All the world knows the truth. Macedonia is a greek province, Alexander the Great is our ancestor, it is a part of our great history, he spoke greek, he loved greece, and Alexander spread greek culture in all over Asia.He is greek with macedonia origin (as i have Athenian origin, my father Thessaly origin, my mother Pelloponisos origin etc..) and he was born in Pella, a city near Thesalonika. In Fyrom live Albanians, SLavs, Bulgarians and they speak a lunguage with Slavobulgarian roots, that they baptished it ''Macedonians''.The people have no history and roots, and they want to steal a part of our history. After 13 years of discussions in UN, Mathiew Nimits proposed a name for this country. He proposed ''Republika Makedonija-Skopje''and he said that macedonia is very connected with greek history and must be a difference with that. Skopje is their capital and that name is much better from simply ''Macedonia''.FYROMians look that they disagree with that. They want simply macedonia. They insist. Greece after those years of arguments says that this proposal is a good start for negotiation to end this disagree. If they insist in that, greece cannot accept it. All greeks are very upset, expesially the greeks in Northern Greece, in macedonia. This is the history in sort words. Those people are unacceptable. The fact is that in those years some countrys in the world regognised this country as ''Macedonia''(for personal reasons) (including Turkey of course) and FYROMians became intolerant and now they think that they have hopes. They dont know that greece will prevent their EU efforts with the name ''Macedonia''. It is an opportunity for them to end this argument. george the athenian.

90 Listen you stupids skopijans you wanna what? you wanna fuck with us? Cause they stupids in usa recongnised you as Macedonia just to stabilizate your unstable country you 'll tell us now that you are Macedonias? from where re? Looks into your country how many diferent polulations from diferent nations exist! No Macedonias are there.. And even if you want to call you as Macedonia you have to be thanksfull for this name cause is part of our history and this is inside us and you and noone will never steal it even if he gonna use it. Greek people are one of most peacfull and good-heart nation like of the few on this fucking age today. But you want to know soemthing if you still didnt realize? Dont try to fuck with us, greeks remains all but until one limit. Dont fucking jokes with our history you sily. Believe me that Greece want to help each and every country in Balkans and also FYROM to a European future that all together as in the West Europe will live together a better life. Greece until today rich that point , today Greece is inside everything and this shows our big different.BUT we want the same for our friends. IF you dont want to be, NEVER we dont fucking care get it? Just understand that you cant play as you like with history and especially with our Hellenic history. Am tired of speaking and even ungry just one more thing , many time i see a stupid thing writen from Skopjians that cause Macedonias attack to Athens that means that they were not Greeks . Hehe in all Greek history my friends all the Greek parties were fighting between them all the time, you dont know about the wars between Athens and Sparta? you dont know between Athens, Thebes.. READ AND LEARN history first!! Cause greeks between them were fighting that dosent means that were not greeks! Ofcourse they were despite that they were fighting Only Greeks can take parts in Olympic games and Macedonias as Athenians,Spartians,Thebeies,Eretries,etc etc they did no other has right to take place and that second improvment. Religion the same dialect Greek as so many other dialects! And so many thing more..IN ALL HISTORY Even if you go to today Afganistan there in the montains exist still an ancient race called "Callas" and they say that they are coming from "Great Alexander the king of Makedonians the GREEK" that also writen in a old statue-table nearby India "Here came the king of macedonias Alexander the Greek". Hehe what do you think, that Periclis par example cause he was the king of Athens he is not Greek but Athenian? hehe ..learn history is writen everywhere! Thats still exist, so you can still what you want but not our hearts not what we are and not our histiory! Macedonia was is & will be Greece. Thanks &*and sorry for my bad english.

91 Well done my friend Alexandros. All Greeks are united against anyone who try to insult our history. We are SO PROUD of our nation that we don't accept things like that. YOU ARE NOT MACEDONIAS! ACCEPT IT AT LAST. I know that you wish to be, but sorry you are not....find your roots in Slavs and Bulgaria. You are not greeks!You were in yugoSLAVIA..!..''SLAVIA''..! you speak a slavobulgarian dialect...YOU HAVE NO RELATION WITH MACEDONIA-MACEDONIANS-GREEKS. You are something different. in your country there are many nations. ALBANIANS-SLAVS-BULGARIAN. What the fuck relation have all of them with macedonia and greece??? It is clear.NOTHING Macedonians spoke and speak Greek Macedonians participated in Olympic Games, as the rest of Greeks. In Olympic Games was accepted only Greeks. Macedonians had the same religion with the rest greece.Olympian Gods. Alexander the great went to Persia for revenge because Persians had made disasters in Athens and other citys of greece. Alexander the great spreed the Greek culture all over Asia. Alexander's teacher was Aristotle Alexander favorite hero was Herculys and Achilees. Alexander the great WAS SPOKEN GREEK. As my friend alexandros told before, Greeks made many wars beetwen them. Macedonia vs Athens, Athens vs Sparta, Athens vs Thebes, and all of them in different periods had the upper hand in ancient Greece. BUT they were united in outside threats, as Persia. SO DONT FUCK WITH AS AND COME DOWN GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

92 ALSO..... EVEN the name of Alexander the Great is Greek: ALEXANDROS = ALEX + ANDRAS = neutralisation + man = the man who predominates the other men! HIS FATHER: PHILLIP = PHILOS + IPPOS = FRIEND + HORSE = THE MAN WHO LOVES THE HORSES. HIS MOTHER: OLYMPIADA = THE NAME OF OLYMPIC GAMES FROM OLYMPIA IN PELLOPONISOS. WHAT ELSE????????..... GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

93 when greeks with go with albanian women they get disease. Thats all off you albanians emigrate to greece. You are all over the world but still say your country is great.But no one lives there. 1 Greek better than 10 Albanians. In terms of anything. Lets not compare fighting moral in war. What has albania ever been up against to? Well greece has never been in conflict with a smaller nation than its itself. Second world war italians then germans,before turkey,before persia and better stop you dont have onne to come up with. What does that fighting always for freedom make us? Heroes. WHAT ARE YOU?YOU JUST LOOK FOR A BETTER LUCK. Learn from greek behaviour through history and some time you might be able to call yourself great. Not open the doors to germans and italians like pussies. Next time bendover as well and let them fuck you like great albanians you are going to resist with your ass.

94 Hahahaha... 1 Greek better than 10 Albanians??? You must be fucking jocking you GYPSY. Look in the mirror and ask yourself why the fuck do we greeks look so shitty and i bet with you the mirror will answer back and say, because god has also created the other side the shitty side of this world, namely the greeks. Try it, gypsy!!! You, greek shitbag, one day the time will come when we with out turkish brother and our brothers and sisters, the Americans will fuck you completely!! Your shitty population is declining gypsie and this day by day. You know that when i was at school in Germany I felt sorry for the greeks because all the time they used to even mention turkey in our history classes the turkish went and kicked their shitty faces with their boots during the lessons. You greeks are so shitty and so fucking scared that the whole world knows about that (Especially the GOOD TURKISH). Besides, why the fuck do you think that Alexander the Great was Greek. How the fuck do you know that??? You scumbag. Only because he knew maybe how to speak Greek or maybe because lived in Greece or Macedonia doesn't make him Greek, you gypsie son of a bitch!!! Everything what is in the greek books in terms of the greek warriors in the ancient greek time were never greeks but either Troyans or Dardanians/Illyrians. We are the true Illyrians of the Balkan that is why our language differs from the slavic ones.

95 The ancient Greek historian Diodorus wrote much of the history of Macedonia from the times of Philip II and Alexander the Great up to the last Macedonian king Perseus. In his writings, Diodorus is clear that the ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, not related to any of the Balkan peoples (Greeks, Thracians, and Illyrians). The below 40 quotes from his books XVII, XVIII, XIX, XX, XXII, XXVIII, XXIX, XXXI, and XXXII are indeed an overwhelming proof of that: [1] For even Greeks – Thespians, Plataeans and Orchomenians, and some other hostile to the Thebans who had joined the king (of the Macedonians) in the campaign. 17.13.5. [2] For many days the king lay helpless under his treatment, and the Greeks who had been settled in Bactria and Sogdiana, who had long borne unhappily their sojourn among peoples of another race and now received word that the king has died of his wounds, revolted against the Macedonians. They formed a band of 3000 men and underwent great hardship on their homeward route. Later they were massacred by the Macedonians after Alexander’s death. 17.99.5-6. [3] The Macedonians and Alexander backed Coragus because he was one of them while the Greeks favored Dioxippus. 17.100.4. [4] Then the Macedonian (Coragus) poised his long lance and charged, but the Greek (Dioxippus), when he came within reach, struck the spear with his club and shuttered it. After these two defeats, Coragus was reduced to continuing the battle with sword, but as he reached for it, the other leaped upon him and seized his swordhand with his left, while with his right hand the Greek upset the Macedonian’s balance and made him lose his footing. 17.100.6-7 [5] He (Alexander the Great) was plainly disappointed at the defeat of the Macedonian. Dioxippus released his fallen opponent, and left the field winner of the resounding victory and bedecked with ribands by his compatriots, as having brought a common glory to all Greeks. 17.101.1-2. [6] From Europe, the Greek cities AND the Macedonians also sent embassies, as well as the Illyrians and most of those who dwell about the Adriatic Sea, the Thracian peoples and even those of their neighbors the Gauls, whose people became known then first in the Greek world. 17.113.2. [7] When Perdiccas heard of the revolt of the Greeks, he drew by lot from the Macedonians 3000 infantry and 800 horsemen. 18.7.3 [8] They (the Greeks) had more then 20000 foot soldiers and 3000 horse. 18.7.2. 3000 of these 23000 Greeks were led by a "traitor" who "left his allies without warning and withdrew to e certain hill, taking his 3000 men". 18.7.6. [9] When oaths to this effect had been sworn and the Greeks were interspersed among the Macedonians, Pithon was greatly pleased, seeing that the affair was progressing according to his intentions; but the Macedonians remembering the orders of Perdiccas and having no regard for the oaths that had been sworn, broke faith with the Greeks. Setting upon them unexpectedly and catching them off their ground, they shot them all down with javelins and seized their possessions as plunder. Pithon then, cheated of his hopes, came back with the Macedonians to Perdiccas. 18.7.8-9 [10] When Alexander died a short time thereafter and left no sons as successors to the kingdom, the Athenians ventured to assert their liberty (from Macedonia) and to claim the leadership of the Greeks. 18.9.1 [11] When the Aetolians listened to him gladly they gave him 7000 soldiers, he sent to the Locrians and the Phocians and the other neighboring peoples and urged them to assist their freedom and rid Greece of the Macedonian despotism. 18.9.5. [12] The decree of the Assembly of Athens: "people should assume responsibility for the common freedom of the Greeks and liberate the cities that were subject to (Macedonian) garrisons; that they should prepare 40 quadriremes and 200 triremes (ships); that all Athenians up to age of 40 should be enrolled; that three tribes should guard Attica, and that the other seven should be ready for campaign beyond the frontier; that envoys should be sent to visit the Greek cities and tell them that formerly the Athenian people, convinced that all Greece was the common fatherland of the Greeks, had fought by see against those (Macedonian) barbarians who had invaded Greece to enslave her, and that now too Athens believed it necessary to risk lives and money and ships in defense of the common safety of the Greeks." 18.10.1-3. [13] Of the rest of the Greeks, some were well disposed toward the Macedonians, others remained neutral. 18.11.1 [14] A few of the Illyrians and the Thracians joined the alliance (with the Greeks) because of their hatred of the Macedonians. 18.11.1-2 [15] As soon as, however, as he learned of the movement concerted against him by the Greeks, he left Sippas as general of Macedonia, giving him a significant army and bidding him enlist as many men as possible, while he himself, taking 13000 Macedonians and 600 horsemen, set out from Macedonia to Thessaly (into Greece). 18.12.2 [16] Now that this great force had been added to the Athenians, the Greeks, who far outnumbered the Macedonians, were successful. 18.12.4 [17] As the Macedonians defended themselves stoutly, many of the Greeks who pushed on rashly were killed. 18.12.1-2 [18] Antiphilus, the Greek commander, having defeated the Macedonians in a glorious battle played a waiting game, remaining in Thessaly and watching for the enemy to move. The affairs of the Greeks were thus in thriving condition, but since the Macedonians had command of the sea, the Athenians made ready other ships… 18.15.7-8. [19] Then after such a combat I have described, the battle was broken off, as the scales of victory swung in favour of the Macedonians. More then 500 of the Greeks were killed in the battle, and 130 of the Macedonians. 18.17.5 [20] The commandant of the garrison of that city, Archelaus, who was a Macedonian by RACE, welcomed Attalus and surrendered the city to him… 18.37.3-4. [21] Seleucus and Pithon again tried to persuade the Macedonians to remove Eumenes from his command and to cease preferring against their own interests a man who was a foreigner and who had killed very many Macedonians. 19.13.1 [22] Peucestes (Macedonian commander) had 10000 Persian archers and slingers, 3000 men of every origin equipped for service in the Macedonian array, 600 Greek and Thracian cavalry and more then 400 Persian horsemen. 19.14.5. [23] Although the risk involved in all these circumstances was clear, nonetheless she decided to remain there, hoping that many Greeks AND Macedonians would come to her aid by sea. 19.35.6. [24] Then, after making a truce with the other Boeotians and leaving Eupolemus as general for Greece, he went into Macedonia, for he was apprehensive of the enemy’s crossings. 19.77.5-6 [25] In this year Antigonus ordered his general Ptolemaeus into Greece to set the Greeks free… 19.77.2 [26] Ptolemaeus, the general of Antigonus, had been placed in charge of affairs thoughout Greece; 19.87.3 (not in Macedonia). [27] This was the situation in Asia and in Greece AND Macedonia. 19.105.4 [28] And first he planned to establish order in the affairs of Greece … and then go on against Macedonia itself if Cassander did not march against him. 20.102.1 [29] While these held office, Cassander, king of the Macedonians, on seeing that the power of the Greeks was increasing and that the whole war was directed against Macedonia, became much alarmed about the future. 20.106.1-2 [30] Demetrius was followed by 1500 horsemen, not less then 8000 Macedonian foot-soldiers, mercenaries to the number of 15000, 2500 from the cities throughout Greece. 20.110.4 [30] The utmost spirit or rivalry was not lacking on either side, for the Macedonians were bent on saving their ships, while the Siceliotes wished not only to be regarded as victors over the Carthaginians and the barbarians of Italy, but also to show themselves in the Greek arena as more then a match for the Macedonians, whose spears had subjected both Asia and Europe. 21.2.2 [31] Brennus, the king of the Gauls … invaded Macedonia and engaged in battle. Having in this conflict lost many man .. as lacking sufficient strength … when later he advanced into Greece and to the oracle of Delphi which he wished to plunder. 22.9.1-2 [33] A native of Terentum, Heracleides was a man of surprising wickedness, who had transformed Philip from a victorious king into a harsh and godless tyrant, and had thereby incurred the deep hatred of all Macedonians AND Greeks. 28.9.2 [34] Flamininus held that Philip (the Macedonian king) must completely evacuate Greece, which should thereafter be ungarrisoned and autonomous. 28.11.1 [35] To this Flamininus replied that there was no need of arbitration whom he ha wronged; furthermore he himself was under orders from the Senate to liberate Greece (from Macedonia). 28.11.3-4 [36] When the news of settlement reached him, Flamininus summoned the leading men of all Greece, and convoking an assembly repeated to them Rome’s good services to the Greeks. 28.13.2 (Macedonians excluded from the leading men of Greece) [37] In defense of the settlement made with Nabis he (Flamininus) pointed out that the Romans had done what was in their power, and that in accordance with the declared policy of the Roman people all the inhabitants of Greece were now free (of Macedonia), ungarrisoned, and most important of all, governed by their own laws. 28.13.3 [38] Philip threatens the Greek Thessalians: "They were not aware, he said, that the Macedonian sun had not yet altogether set." 29.16.1-2 [39] He said, namely, that after seeing the sun rise as he was about to begin transporting his army from Italy to Greece… five day later he arrived in Macedonia. 31-11.2-4 [40] Having as his accomplice a certain harpist named Nicolaus, a Macedonian by birth… 32.15.9 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

96 ''Greeks'' mentioned in ancient writings is ''Hellenes'' (like Hellas=Greece), greeks is the translation in english. There were one of the many tribes as were the Athenians etc which all at the end gathered unified under the name Hellenes which is Greeks in english. I could write forever analysing all kind of crap mentioned here but I dont have the time. Sooner or later the world as you view it will end. Pray to your gods while you still can. + PAS MH ELLHN BAPBAPOS +

97 to bary. nice try BUT you forget (the best part) that in Ancient Greece all the regions was seperated and intepented BUT they all spoke GREEK, they all believed in Zeus, they all participated in Olympic Games an athletic event only for Greeks.From magna grecia (south italy) up to Ionia (Asia Minor-turkey) and cuprys and from Macedonia up to Crete and Alexandreia (north Egypt)Taking phrases and details from a whole history does nt make sense. The history that you mentioned is about Macedonia and not for all Greece, so it is natural to mention Macedonia seperatelly. This history you are talking about FOCUS in Macedonia, as there is history that focus in Athens, in Sparta, in Thrace, in Thessaly, in Ionia, in Magna Grecia, in Pelloponisos, in Mykines, in Minoan etc etc.... ALL OF THEM WERE PARTS OF ANCIENT GREECE. ALL OF THEM WERE, ARE AND WILL BE GREEKS. NOONE CAN CHANGE IT NOW. A NATION IN ORDER TO BE A NATION MUST HAVE: 1/ THE SAME LANGUAGE 2/ THE SAME RELIGION 3/ COMMON HABITS AND TRADITIONS THIS IS A REALLY NATION, AND SO WAS ANCIENT GREECE: A NATION THAT LIVES UNTIL TODAY. IT IS HARD BUT: ''PAS MI ELLIN BARBAROS'' IF YOU WERE MACEDONIAN YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE LITTLE PHRASE BEFORE. ALEXANDER THE GREAT WAS ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT, AS ALL THE GREEKS OF COURSE. So my friend Bary, all the other are just efforts to deform the reality. Good effort but not enough to prove anything. Even the satanism can show arguments from Bible and make them seem different. BUT we all now that are false. Something like that are the arguments that you say to us. And please try to find answers to my points in that message and in my messages that i wrote before. ALEXANDER SAID IN THE BATTLE OF DARDANELIA TO HIS FIGHTERS: ''lets win, for the glory of GREECE!!!'' he was so right...THE GLORY OF GREECE. This glory we are trying to protect even today.He was fighting the barbarians to protect the culture of Greece. The Greek spirit and mind. The great civilization that gave birth to the most principalls values of mankind. GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

98 AND..even today in Greece we say our birthplaces. I am Athenian, my father is from Thesally, my mother is from Sparta, my grandfather is from Pergamon (Asia minor) my grandmother is from Crete, my oncle is Cypriot, my other grandfather Macedonian...etc etc..WE ALL ARE GREEKS, SPEAK GREEK, THINKING GREEK SO PROUD TO BE GREEKS GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

99 Don't talk bullshit greeks. You might tell all this you grandma' but no one else will take it seriously, i am telling you this, man cause you are talking only bullshit. Macedonia belongs to us and you will never take it from us as we have kicked your dirty asses always when you shitty greeks tried to take our homeland away from us. Piss off, greeks! Zoran

100 if you dare come to take it zoran (zoran!! even your name is barbarian. What the fuck relation has with Phillip and Alexandre??) ''MOLON LAVE'' WE ARE THE BEST IN THE WORST NEIGBORHOOD DREAM ON BARBARIANS democracy-art-sience-literature-sports-olympics-astronomy-mathematics-architecture-law-medicine-philosophy-drama-Tragedy-theatre....... Alexander the Great, Socratis, Pythagoras, Homer, Solon, Periklis, Thoukididis, Hrodotos, Esxilos, Aristotle, Sofoklis,....and SO many more....i need pages to finish. WE BROUGHT TO YOU THE LIGHT.FACE IT. THAT IS THE BIGGEST PAIN FOR YOU. TRUTH REMAINS TRUTH AND HISTORY REMAINS HISTORY, NOONE CAN CHANGE IT AND FOR SURE NOONE FYROMIAN (ALBANOBOULGAROSLAVIANS) CAN CHANGE IT. THATS MY ANSWER TO ALL OF YOU ANTHELLINES *GEORGE THE ATHENIAN*

101 This is a hilarious forum... 99% of people writing here seem to be retarded in some way or other, is that due to all your in_cestous behaviour in the Balkans? I have a great solution, why don't we drop A-bomba all over the Balkans!?... a great solution using your logic. We would get rid of all your petty problems... No dirty Albanians left to polute the south Balkans(and europe for that matter, as there seem to be an albanian on every street corner), fucking like rabbits having 50 kids in one family, and being the core distributer of heroin to the rest of Europe? Why we are at it we should bomb Greece as well, we wouldn't have to listen to gay greeks talk about ancient history when in the past hundred years the only thing they have achieved is to prostitute their islands to drunk Britts and Germans. Then we have the Croats and the Serbs... were to start, same people, same language but different religions... good reason to fight each other and kill each other? A-boms would do miracles here, we can help you there guys we can do the job for you and make a fantastic parking space of your contries as that would probably make more use of that waste of space that it is now. Then we have the turks... ohhh the turks, with their constan inferiority complex... ohh how they want to be europe and europeans, but hey guys guess what, 90% of your country is as much part of europe as say... Iraq, are we going to see Iraq in the the EU?... hmmm, don't think so why don't we A-bomb you and take care of your complex! Face up to your history and GET OVER IT! You just have to read the comments on this site to see why you belong in the stone age... This pathetic discussion ( if you can call this a discussion when the mental capacity is equal to a 5 year old) is primitive and sad ( although it gave me a few chuckles).

102 hey dudes... see the EUROMIL site ;-) lot of years the map say Skopje as Macedonia... after USA say Skopje Macedonia... then EUROMIL change the map to FYROM before some months ;-) hey dudes... i have lot to tell you ... for now i am busy... DON"T AFRAID... MAKEDONIA WAS GREEK MAKEDONIA IS GREEK CUZ SIMPLE MATHEMATICS>>> MAKEDONIA WILL BE FOREVER GREEK! IF YOU DOUBT... check web,,, GreekHackers Hack 500 sites around per 4 days with the message "MAKEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK, KNOW THAT SKOPJE IS REPUBLIC OF VARDASKA! HELLENIC HISTORY." well i will copy paste later lot of proof. WE GOT all proofs that macedonia is greek and u NONE... hey what the names of ur cities and vilages into SKOPJE ? GREEK NAMES.! oh yes... you slavic dude... HELLAS HELLAS... the only country in the world that call as HELLADA... is the SKOPJE... WHY??????? YES we are christians orthodox! if u know history, then u will know that after a war Russians come to greeks and pray as to make them all ORTHODOX! i think skopje u blow... and we can fire all skopje into 1 day. in 1910 the war... i SEE GREEKS - TURKS - SERBIANS - BULGARIANS to war for MAKEDONIA! but where are you bastard skopje? till 10 years before your name is VARDASKA! then ur first president say clearly! SKOPJE is NOT MAKEDONIANS... SKOPJE IS JUST SLAVIC comming to this area at 5th century (by the way alexander die at 323 ;-) anyway... where are u in 1910? GREEKS ARE THERE AND FIGHT! WE WIN and we WAR for another one GREEK name ... the MAKEDONIAN NAME! look Cyprus dude :-D Cyprus is a greek island! :-D ask the cypriot. them flag is the greek.look Thrace... Kostantinouple! Smurni! Trapezounta... hey dude! HELLAS HELLAS ;-) ola einai danika...kai me tous kairous kai ta xronia kai pali dika mas tha einai! before we are under turks for 400 years but we take back again...same with makedonia...we got the power! we are the only nation that war always... look at 2nd world war! look persians! look turks... look italians! ;-) GREECE HELLAS! THESSALONIKI IS THE CAPITAL OF MAKEDONIA REGION OF GREECE.-

103 WHY DO YOU FUCKING GREEKS TALK JUST BULLSHIT IN THIS FORUM??? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CHALLENGE ALWAYS THE LITTLE ONE? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT TURKEY WILL ONLY WATCH IF YOU WOULD ATTACK MACEDONIA OR SKOPJE OR ALBANIA OR EVEN BOSNIA??? I TELL YOU WHAT IF IT WOULD BE UP TO US, WE WOULD FUCKING TAKE OVER GREECE AND FUCKING SERBIA WITHIN ONLY 72 HOURS. BUT, IT IS OUR FRIENDS THE AMERICANS WHO WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO AND PRAY GOD THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ALIVE WHEN WE PAY YOU A "BLITZKRIEG" VISIT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU THEN. UNFORTUNATELY, WE KILLED ONLY 4,8500,000 GREEKS DURING ALL THE WARS THAT WE HAD SO FAR, SO IT SEEMS THAT REST NEED TO BE FINISHED VERY SOON. THE AMERICANS MAY SHOW MERCY, BUT WE DON'T!!! DON'T EVER THINK THAT YOU CAN MESS WITH US TURKISH YOU ARE OUR SLAVE EVEN TODAY. YOU WERE OUR SLAVE FOR MORE THAN 400 YEARS!!!! WE KILLED YOU, WE FUCKED YOU, WE SLAUGHTERED YOU, WE RAPED YOU AND STILL YOU ARE SMALL TO US, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU USELESS NATION!!!!!!!! ....AND LEAVE THE OTHERS ALONE!!

104 To Viking, Who the fuck do you think you are to talk like an arrogant piece of shit? Do you really think you are much better than most of us in this forum to come up with this fucking stupid idea to nuke all us out!!! You sounds like one of these bloody Neo-Nazis who normally don't deserve to exist nowdays. You are a RACIST MOTHERFUCKER!!! We don't need people like you to judge others based on their religion, race, history, habits whatsoever. Although, we still find it difficult to leave in Peace with each other in the Balkans I strongly believe that in future all these Nations (Serbs, Croats, Greeks, Albanians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Turks etc..) will be much closer integrated to each other so that all this hatress and prejudice against each other will be vanished once and for all because at the end of the we all are humans and humans learn through their histories and experiences to make a better life for tomorrow. This time will come but until then lots of barriers need to be abolished. A Proud Albanian from Illinois, USA USA FOREVER!!!

105 dear Kastrioti! I would suggest you read my comment once more before you open your gob in ignorance... most people on this forum refer to each other as "muthafuckaz" and other "cool" words, all they want to do is to invade each others contries and kill each other... greeks vs macedonians/albanians, macedonians vs albanians, serbs vs croats/albanians/bosnians/turks, turks vs greeks/serbs/bulgarians!! Balkan people are the most intolernat and racist on earth... Is this what you called civilized!? If this is civilized I don't want to know what uncivilized means in your contries... Also I noticed that you lack the ability to notice irony and sarcasm, which my hole text is made up of as I said before it reflects the retoric of the mentally declined people on this forum, so I just put myself on the same low level, get it now? So before you start throwing shit like neo-nazi and racist, see what irony and sarcasm means in a dictionary and ask your self what future the Balkans have when you can't come to terms with your history. Because if people in general think like the people on this forum about each other on the Balkans there isn't much of a future, or do you disagree. Ciao

106 Re malakes! Makedonia is greek, and will always remain greek! Stop stealing our history you lowsy, ugly cowards with big noses! PS. FREE CYPRUS FROM THE TURKS! //////FROM FC CREW (free cyprus crew) We are not kidding you lousy bastards!! History can't be re-written like a cd! Am I right, or am I righ!? Mia zwh elliniki!!!

107 Dear Viking, you seem to me to be a pathetic person if you really think that those sort of personalities in this Forum rule our countries in the Balkans or Eastern Europe. 97% of all those people in this Forum are unfortunately illiterates or just are about to leave after they are done with their secondary school and don't want to go any further. So, please don't think that all Balkanis are like those pasting their shitty texts in this forum. I am sure other countries have the same sort of psychos (look at Germans with their Neo-Nazis, English with their Hooligans etc.) The main problem with the most of the Eastern Europeans is that they are still behind (some 50-60 years)other industrialized countries and so they have to pick up with them especially when it comes to a higher education level. They still live with their old traditions and are to narrow to loose their conservative way of thinking in different aspects (ie. Politics, global view, history, religion, race etc. etc.). Also, there is a huge difference between being a blatherskite or an evil. Fortunately, those people here are all blatherskites. Normally, the most friendliest people in whole europe you will find are in the balkans, wherever you go (Greece, Turkey, Macedonia, Albania, Hungary, Yugosllavia etc.). This is a fact!! That is why people like you (German, Swedish, Norway, Danish etc.) go on holidays to Croatia, Greece etc. So, whatever bad you say and think in general about us Eastern Europeans is completely wrong and completely missunderstood. There are always good and bad people in each country in this planet so don't be like the germans who put one nation in a pot only because they have had a bad experience with someone before. That makes you then very naiv and stupid if you do think like that. Victory to All Good People in this Planet. God Bless America!!! Kastrioti

108 Cuz u talk... i hack already under 400 sites with: .al .gov.al .mk .gov.mk .it .tr the fist two sites i hack is the sites: http://ambasadat.gov.al/index.html http://www.ultrasuoni1.it/ MACEDONIA-HPEIROS-CYPRUS-COSTANTINPLE-SMURNH was...is....and will be forever GREEK! HELLAS HELLAS!!!! ----------------------------------- greekhackers.org ellhack.com uigr.com codelux.gr cosmmin@gmail.com -----------------------------------

109 NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - EUROMIL till last month call Skopje as Macedonia, After USA say Skopje as Macedonia, before 2 months, EUROMIL change the name on map and post FYROM. USA say that they say SKopje as Macedonia is WRONG for now... European Union say NO to Skopje to use the "Republic Of Macedonia". The ancient name of area around skopje is Paionia and the new is VARDASKA... so i should we call them Republic Of Vardaska! Alexander the Great die at 323 but Slavs come balkans (Skopje people) at 5th century. They have NO connection with Alexander the Great. First Skopje president say that they are slavs just and they have no contact with alexander the great, macedonia and greeks. Skopje call Thessaloniki Solum, and they say that is the original name. But how that come when Thessaloniki is more old name (the half sister of Alexander) who is set by start? and the Skopje come in balkans at 5th century? What about Greek name cities into Skopje? You know that into skopje there are lot of Greek names Cities ;-) Macedonians talk Greek cuz simple they are greeks. Is like... A german from Kelts and a german from Vavarys... they both germans just from different areas. Like greece... Macedonian Greeks (a greek from macedonia area) Attica Greeks (a greek from attica area) Skopje say that Greeks make fake hsitorical things... How that come... when the discover of all that is by foregn ancients? like british, german, french etc. What about the ancient discovers into skopje into asia and arabia... that proof macedonians are greeks who talk greeks. Alexander the Great Kill Persians for the name of Greece! Lot of people think why Alexander fight greeks too... well did you know pelloponisean war? between greeks? Spartans and Atheneans? yes they both greeks... in ancient greece all is like city - countries. always greeks between have wars. But they fight together the foreign army... like persians. That proof it all. All greeks and onbly greeks can go to Olympic games ;-) there are lot of macedonians who go there...that means are greeks. ps. i have lot lot to say ;-) MACEDONIA IS GREEK. AND HISTORY TELL IT.

110 Is it me, or does every civilized country in the world (Greece, first and for most, America, France, England, Germany, etc) have a serious problem with poor, dirty, disgusting, stupid immigrants that flood their nation with filth? Whether its latin americans in America, the dredges of the Balkans in Greece, the muslims in France and England, or the Turks in Germany...they pollute any pure soil they touch, they bring the meaning of stupidity to a new low, and carry on like a bunch of inbred animals with no formal house-training. Is it any surprise no one wants you in their country? If you have such bride in your history and nation ::scoff:: then go back to your busted countries and fix THEM up rather than bring the rest of civilization down to your level. You are the uninvited house guests that can't take a hint. So we'll make it nice and clear...GET OUT! Of course, you may have to reads this a few more times before that inbred brain of yours can understand this message. So let me simplify this a bit: GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT. Rinse and repeat. Take two time daily before food. EI ELLADA POTE THEN PETHENI! P.S. To all my greek brothers out there, we are continuing the fight in America and cannot wait until our grand reunion with the motherland and we can all expel the foreign invaders from our sacred soil.

111 hey patriot what do you mean by saying " we are continuing the fight in America..." Are you completely fucked up??? I also am a proud american who does not allow any foreigners to make an assault upon our citizens, governments etc. So, in other words you greeks are seriously taking a dangerous step ahead if you think like a Nazi and not like a real Patriot. Besides, we americans do not support your politics anyway because we see things differently and we have never seen greeks as our real allies. I hope you understand why....!! Soultz

112 Proud American... Greeks control all parts of USA. Look at New York President ;-) he is Greek. YES YES, the New York President is GREEK. Also...what is american? hehe... anyone can be american...so is other the america other the usa and other the americans... all that are different topics dude. ALL GREEKS PLS CHECK BACK SOON ON: www.uigr.com and www.i-macedonia.com THX! HELLAS FOREVER REEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

113 Nice...another dispute among the millions i have seen ... For FYROM guys... History lesson at http://www.macedonia.com/english/ Ancient findings can prove much more than your fake claimings... As for Albanians... a mixed race , who claim to be from the famous ancient race of Illyrians ... no connection at all really as their race seased to exist right after the end of Roman Empire... History Lesson...No2 http://www.frosina.org/culturehistory/reviews.asp?id=122 Also for any person who thinks Greece or better named Hellas as "the ones from the rock of light"...well we have a saying here for all those who think they can prevail on our race...ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ... Most of the world tribes tried us, and ALL OF THEM (no exception) got tjei faces into dirt... from Romans (who were "Dazzled" by the Hellenic culture) , Turkish who even they were arround 400 years occupying they still were got rid of , to Mussolini Italians , Nazis.... what makes you think that YOU will manage better... so as i said...ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ... Gandalf

114 nice Hassan...really nice... Your vanity was one of the main reasons you need OUR approval in order to join E.U.... And it is sad that fanatics like you or your famous "wolves" are the ones responsible , for the backstep of your country... As for the 400 years... i think that the Hellenic Flag which is waving , right in front of your eyes at the eastern borders of Evros river , is all the answer you need... Btw... have you ever finished high school?... or is this the level of education you are receiving ...? BTW , capital writting is always something to look uppon as something ugly... Btw .. Turks?... If you really know your history , seltzuks were an "expelled tribe" by the Moggolians , who were outcasted from Asia... So do not speak of me about origin.. or even about culture... Thank God (or Allah if you wish) that there are people with some intelligence in your country and can help you , not fall into the "endless loop" of hate , which seems that you are.... Gandalf

115 The problem with the past is that we waste the present. Living in the word of the God and accepting and knowing the mistakes of the past can help the future in South-eastern Europe. By language the race is as below albanian - illirian 1, greek- illirian 2. this is for the old history in the midle term to these tow groups were aded, slavs, turks, and lately in the era of globalization english. Long live to engels in earth, out the evil.

116 To all anthellines of this forum... Our people, Greeks, is a nation with a glory ancient history...So, this people is VERY PROUD about his past. We breath, we dream, we live, we think, we work, with this. It is our fortune. We will never stop to talk about this. Like it or not, THATS IT. Try to get familiar with this. Facing the Greek history is like facing with the roots of western culture. Who that means your culture as it is today. All of our values are accepted today by all mankind. Democracy, philosophy, art, drama, medicine, athletism, olympics, poetry, sience, astronomy, architecture...etc.. Greeks as Homer, Aisxylous, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Periklis, Solon, Alexander the Great, Hippokratis, Pindaros, Hisiodos...and many many more had marked the history of all the mankind. This is accepted by all historians and scientists of the world. Why some of you people, dont have the bravery to accept the truth?? I am sure that even you, inside of you, know the truth. It is hard to accept it loud. The braves can do it. So try to be brave. Also, we respect all other cultures and nations and we want the same about us. We can not accept the deformation of history. Not a simply history like the others. A GREAT HISTORY. It is our obligation to protect it. *George the Athenian*

117 Hassan... Holding an MBA degree does not show on the languange you use, and that is why my reaction was that.. If you were not bussy in swearing me and just take a glance at those links (which on of them is in a London uni) you would see that my respond was based on logical arguments and not on swearings as yours was. One thing to remember though. Hellas and not Greece (which is a term brought up by you at first) is a country that has survived 5000 years of history and is still here. Your enterprise , (which i hope will profit enough)is aparted form several people , under different citizenships , right?... do you also behave in that way if someone is opposing you , even if he is negative in his ways (which i believe i was not)? Holding a degree does not , immediatelly make you civillised ... and that is a global truth not mine... You were help up by a phrase of mine which although was described a bit rough , it was the truth... Several thousands of people in Pelloponisos managed to cast away the occupying forces of an empire at that time.. Like it or not , it is the truth... Swearing wont get you anywhere, .. in fact if you could be kind enough to bring some arguments to support your words and not just curses , mayb ei would pay up more attention... As for the people of several nationalities which have , been in my country , it si true that there are people who behave like "racists".. but rotten apples exist in both sides of the story... Hellas is a country which is the "terminal" for many refugees from all over the eastern parts of the world... even from your own country.. Kurds , Iranians , Iraqis and many others who were driven away from their own country regimes (similar to the one Turkey had near to todays time.. i believe you are familiar with the term of "white cells")... We were open to ALL OF THEM, comparing to Italy or the rest of E.U. where you support... Germany and UK have published a law which is narrowing down all those visitors which is still not valid in our country... Also did you know that in order for you to join E.U. you were obliged to sign a treaty to limit the percentage of Turkish people travelling arround E.U for permanent staying in other countries?... Simple Turkish people and simple Hellines ( i realy do not like the term Greek so bare with me) do not have anything to separate trully... I have more friends than you can ever imagine from yoru parts and even travelled to many parts of your country.. Really nothing against them... History as the guy before me (Albanian soul) said, is to learn from mistakes and not to repeat them.. BTW ..Albanian soul... my regards for your comment... Also if you really want to know the truth about what is happening here, you will better visit us , with no prejudice and find out things on your own... Media tend to exagurate on things.... Yours and mine... but i think you know this... People in Balkans were always manipulated from the beggining of history as they are residents of a "Rich" area in many minerals and they are apart of a "node" that is connecting M.East-Asia-Europe-Africa ...A very significant part of teh world for anyone... History lesson for both of us here... remember the shift of the allies during the period of 1920s?... who and why they were supporting of , at that time?... I will help you a bit... take a look at your oil pipe at that time at your southern borders. I really have nothing against to you , personally.... i was just irritated by your curses and the lack of logical arguments... I am no fanatic and the sad part is that instead of having this post as a place to talk calmly , it is true that we fight with no real result... If you ever come to our country , i will be more than happy to show you arround... And for the record ... since you stated your proffesion, i will just pay you back with min e, in respect to your answer. I work as a professional Security Analyst in Electronical systems and i have pretty much worked with almost all nationalities of the world.. I am not arrogant , i am not pissing on anybody , but it is true that whoever is trying to take a part of my country with sneaky moves or even with direct approach he will find me infront of him.. and i believe the same thing will occur if that is the case for your country... Gandalf

118 Big nose hassan. Go home you losy coward...go home to MONKEYLAND! You turkish (I think you are turkish becouse you sound like a monkey!) bitch! We say; Makedonia, Constantinople, Cprus is Greek and wil allways emain Greek! Mpravo Thessaloniki Voice pes to! PS. Turks are bad for health! ///FC Crew - Free Cyprus! Makedonia is greek! OPA! It's better being greek than beeing turk! FREE CYPRUS!! And MAKEDONIA! See you lousy cowards with big noses at the Denmark - Greece game! - If you come, that means! FREE CYPRUS!!

119 PS2. We are not racists! We love every person on earth EXCEPT the ones that don't like greece or the greek people! BUT fact is fact - History can't be rewritten...what happended has happended...you can NOT go back in time and change history. SO with that in mind these facts are true: Makedonia and Cyprus IS greek! History can not be shared like a cookie! ////////FC Crew 2005 FREE CYPRUS

120 Free Cyprus from the lousy hairy ugly big-nosed cowards also known as the TURKS! ALSO, to you other idiots: Makedonia IS greek! IT ISSSS GREEEEKK!!!! alright? no problem, yes? There you go! We are DEADLY serious about this! FREE CYPRUS, MAKEDONIA IS GREEK! /////FC CREW

121 my friends Kostas and Alekos It is not necessary to talk like that and you dont have to talk like that. It is not proper for us the Greeks. It is not fair to blaim a hole nation for the acts of the goverments and the army. I know that the most Turkish people are friendly and peacefull. And for sure the people of Turkey is misunderstood. The goverments and the army of Turkey have their benefits to act like that. It is well known that the army in Turkey plays a principall role. Of course Macedonia is Greek, and for sure Cuprys is a victim of Turkish acts. But the people of Greece and Turkey must stay friends, and not to talk bad about each other. We have so many facts and truths with us, so we must not loose our temper. I have attached before some things that prove the truth. So, we have to be calm and focus in our target. THE TRUTH. We are the peacefull power of Balkans and we must remain the same. We must make our neighboorhods peacefull countrys so we can make Balkans a peacefull region as the rest of western europe. We have the right we us. And for sure we will not let anybody steal our history. Friendly regards to all Balkans and especially to Greeks, my country. *George the Athenian*

122 MACEDONIA IS GREEK! when we say that...we not mean that we want the land of skopje or VARDASKA. we mean about the name. Macedonia is a greek name. Macedonia parts is between greece,vardaska(skopje) and bulgaria. Only greeks can use the name of Macedonia. NO ONE else. greece not want the land of skopje cuz if greeks have that problem believe that will gone a big war...not only for that land. if greece make a war in balkan be sure that will be a balkan whole war. whatever by our history we area civilization nation. so lets look the map: http://makedonia.cc.ece.ntua.gr/English/PageData/the_issue.htm the blue line around is the area of macedonia by all historicals..facts and ancinet documents. If skopje is macedonia...why they not talk greek? or why in 1992 start that problem? why them president say that they are slavs? :-p if skopje is macedonia then today we not talk about the name. greece use that name from ancient years. Have you see in any other country problem with the name? NO! only skopje like to STOLE history without proofs. GREECE have proofs about that macedonia is greek. example: in USA we have 51 states who make the USA. someone who in from California can say that is American(USA) from California. etc... like that what is the greek macedonian. macedonia is a region in greece. the 24% people in greece are macedonians who leave in greece talk greek call them selfs greeks and greek-macedonians and they say that in skopje are slavs. MACEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK!

123 Thessaloniki voice, thats right! very good approach... I wonder when they will be able to understand us at last!!! We dont want to occupie them (skopians), we just dont want to use a name that belong to us! I know that our history is glorious and many want to share a little bit of its glory, BUT that's false. for example: see the political map of france in the site http://www.map-of-france.co.uk/ What would happen if near by the region No9 with name Alsace, out of the borders of France, was born a country that wanted to be named Republic of Alsace. ??? I think that France would be very upset. *George the Athenian*

124 Re malaka, dusan; FTUSAN! You are wrong you lousy big hairy and craaazy bignosed coward! We don't want your 3rd world country....bitch

125 DID THE ANCIENT MAKEDONIANS SPEAK SLAVIAN?! NOO!! FC Crew2005

126 DID THE ANCIENT MAKEDONIANS SPEAK SLAVISH?!?! NOO!! FC Crew2005

127 Dusan, words-words-words but not any facts... read above and try to answer with facts. We have so many facts that you can not imagine. READ SOME HISTORY.... what the fuck! is it neseserary to have all of those bad neigborhoods??? From the north to the east. From the bad to worst. why???...!

128 ...and what the fuck relation has your name Dusan or Zoran or whatever, with Alexander, Phillip, Olympiada, Voukefalas? Greek names, Greek words, Greek language! I can answer to you, nothing for sure. *the Athenian*

129 EVERYBODY HATES THE GREEKS. I WAS WATCHING THE OTHER NIGHT AMERICAN IDOL AND CONSTANTINE MAROULIS WAS THROWN OUT FROM THE STAGE LIKE A USELESS IDIOT. THIS REALLY DOES SHOW HOW HATRED THE GREEKS ARE EVEN IN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. NO ONE LIKES YOU SHITTY GAY NATION, MAN!!! A GREEK LIFE DOESN'T MEAN NOTHING NOWADAYS AND YOUR HISTORY YOU CAN TAKE IT IN YOUR SHITTY GRAVES, BASTARDS!!! MIHAJLOVIC (SKOPJE)

130 it is useless to talk with a person of this level. I refer you to my answers above. ..so proud to be Greek, *the Athenian*

131 I am really getting bored of answering neive answers which are only full of curses and swearings , instead of logical arguments that can support their claimigs. Intelligent and educated people who are able to read history can draw their own conclusions... For the rest who are satisfying themselves with swearings and cursings... one phrase for them... "We can not beat idiots... they can not be defeated..." My regards to all intelligent people here. After all philosophy was born in Hellas... Gandalf

132 yes Gandalf, thats right philosophy, and so many other things were born here, in Greece (or Hellas). It will be better for all of you, to try to explore the Greek history, instead of trying to be against us. It will be good for you. Great Greeks have said many truths from ancient times. A lot of western values were born here. *the Athenian*

133 Dusan-FTUSAN; You use big words, mister smallcock...meet me and i'll show you who is lousy...you skopjans are all the same; JEALOUS OF THE GREEKS! FC Crew is coming!

134 Realy intresting discussion.just what is this magnificent discussion related with the poor macedonian man murdered? what a time waste I did for reading this stupid thing.

135 As i read this page i see only the skopje people (slavics or VARDASKA REPUBLIC people) just only the talk like "fuck" or "bastard" or "hate"... etc. and only from that talk can you understand... annoying people who have no proofs and they talk air. i HAVE proofs and i SHOW! where are yours slavic proofs? :-p anyway it doesn't matter what you say... cuz the real is one, that macedonia is one and is hellenic. i remind again that the only nation in the world that call us HELLADA is the Skopje. why??????? everyone who can understand, understand :-p NOTES: Yunan= Ionas ... when iones go to asia they have first touch with arabs. arabs can't spell perfect Ionas then they say Yunas. thats how come. what Ionas is? the hellenic nation have 4 ways of people at ancient: Dwrieis,Aioleis,MAkedones and Iones. Greek= Greacus= Greek Warrior in war fight. Romans, Italians know hellines as Greeks by write of greek philosopher who write greeks into wars as greacus. About "Macedonci"= means the macedonia way AND not macedonia as skopje think :-p if you read ancint papers you will understand. like Atticanci is the Macedonci come too by greeks. I have so many things to say. :-) Macedonia is one and is Hellenic... The best example is the CYPRUS. YES YES... anyone remember the "Kupros Ellas Enwsis"? i remember perfectly. and i can say that cyprus is not a country, cyprus is another island of greece, the greatest land of greece. how become a country? cyprus become a country to stop the war and don't make problems. Within that years the Kupriaki Lira is the most top money in the world. Also now with cyprus we have 2 members into EU. :-) If you ask cypriots what are you... im sure they will tell you GREEKS proudly as real. example: cyprus is country right? but what cypriot are? cypriots are GREEKS cypriots. that not means they half greeks example: greek macedonian (greek who stay and is from macedonia) greek cypriot (greek who stay and is from cyprus) greek athenian (greek who stay and is from Athens) greek pontios (greek who stay and is from ponto) HELLAS FOREVER special: Macedonia Cyprus Hpeiros Costantinople Pontos M.Asia are Hellenics :-)

136 If you consider Macedonians as Greeks just because they lived under Greek rule for some time and spoke the same language (because of the barbarian Greek rulership forcing them to)you can certainly consider Greeks as Turks since they lived under Turkish rule for centuries, saving one difference that Turks (unfortunately) give them freedom to let their language, religion and culture to prolong. _________________________________________][-][_________

137 You not understand. Skopje people who is as well SLAVIC they live under Yugoslavia. cuz they are part of slavs who talk slav language. MACEDONIANS are HELLENICs who talk GREEK and live in Greece. Into greece there are 3 millions Macedonia people who call them selfs Greeks and they DON'T Accept Vardaska (Vardaska = Fyrom). So Macedonians they live to them land...that land they want. Slavics are out of Macedonia region and they have no access to name of Macedonia... Just they only want to stole history cuz they are a nation that NOT like to accept them slavic history and they want to stole. Also barbarians are the slavic as world history... Greeks Never attack to Another nation. ;-) A question for you... Fyrom say that they are macedons... well the question is..: How they can be macedons when the have come at balkan at 5th century when Alexander The Great have die about 323? and how come as Slavs Fyroms say that Thessaloniki name is Solum? how come the Solum name? and how they can say that name when at history found always found only the name Thessaloniki also check the Letters of Apostole Pavlos (Paull) who he write to THESSALONIKI. and how fyroms try to say Solum when Thessaloniki is the start name of this city who taken the name by Alexander half sister name? And how they can talk fyroms about them macedonian language...when always we found macedonia documments with GREEK language... and how come when Fyromians language is already SLAVIC ? ... i have a lot... for... First answer to this one question ;-) Greeks NOT want the land of Skopje cuz Macedonia is till the place Monastiri. So Skopje - Fyrom or better Vardaska is NOT Macedonia. Just we NOT allow a foreign barbarian nation to stole a greek name like Macedonia who have big history and is a part of greece. Also the first President of Skopje - Fyrom - Vardaska said at 1992 that: "We are slavic who we come in balkan at 5 century and we have NO contact with Alexander The Great and Macedonians. We are Slavic nation." That is what said the first Skopje President at 1992. Also Greeks and Greece use as well the name of Macedonia and ONLY Greece use it. Till 1992 Fyrom name is VARDASKA or better REPUBLIC OF VARDASKA. Look History museum of Yugoslavia the maps. Why Skopje is the only country that call Greece as HELLADA? and how come Macedonia be Fyrom name... lets explain... the end -ia example: In English - In Greek (Hellenic) ------------------------------------ France Yallia Germany Germania England Agglia Turkey Turkia Macedonia Makedonia ------------------------------------ We call most of countries and places with "-ia" About Macedonia - Makedonia In ancient Documment find as "Makedonia" lets explain: In Greek language we not have "C" but is like "K". Just the translate of Makedonia in english is Macedonia. Also Skopje say that there are 2 histories of Macedonia. The one is the Skopje macedonia history. And the second history is that one Macedonia global history for macedonia and greece. How come 2 histories??? Also if real the name Macedonia is from Skopje and not Greek... how come that? and how come Greece have problem with that name? We wake up a day here in Greece and we say oh today we will remember another name to make a scene? But sure... Greeks always use that name and the people... the real one macedons into greece. You look... Skopje just in real world wake up a monring at 1992 and they say...oh we make country.... we have not name not history not civilization... what we can do for? lets look the map and wow! is that shine country next THE GREECE! Lets stole them names and history! Thats how come all. But they not think something... that thet not have proofs for it! but whos will search? lol. Thats how come that they are not Macedonians... cuz they are stupid and they can't think simple things like that. But what they answer that they have not proofs cuz they are macedons? Skopje say that the Greek Historicals who find the ancient things they destroy it and change it... but look how come they stupid! The find of ancient documents is by british, french, german historicals who search for etc. And is is ok that... ok for the land of Greece... What about the Ancient documents into Asia and Skopje? and what about the Greek names into land of Skopje country who they have cities with greek names? Greeks change it too? So Skopje they have no proof for it. By last all European Mambers NOT accept Fyrom to use that name as USA take back the name that try give to Skopje. Also EURO-MIL and members call Skopje as FYROM. :-) Thanks who you read my super interesting file. Macedonia is one and is Greek (Hellenic).

138 To "Thessaloniki Voice!" and all other ignorant ones: First of all I urge you study some history; you don't have to go far back for examples of GREEKS ATTACKING OTHER NATIONS; remember how hellenic dreams of invasion were repelled back from Turkish homeland of Anatolia in 1922, no more words about it. For almost a millenium Karadeniz (Former Pontus), Anatolia (so-called-by-you M. Asia) and for more than half-a-millenium İstanbul (Former Roman City of Constantinople) are NOT hellenic at all, you're always welcome to see it for your own eyes. And one more thing about the other so called "hellenic" place: Cyprus; never in any phase of the world's history Cyprus has been a Greek island; NEVER (except for the southern half of it being for the last 30 years). It has been an Egyptian island, a Roman island, a Venetian island, it has been an Ottoman island, has been a British island bu NEVER under the rule of any Greek civilization. These eventually show that Greek people's historical ignorace combined with being the most spoiled country in the world they tend to take historical places and historical names into monopoly. I repeat it once more, if the Ottoman Empire forced Greeks to talk Turkish (as ancient greeks forced all people under their rule), Greeks can be ignored the same way as they ignore Macedonians right now. You can't hold the name of a geography just because you hold a certain percentage of it. CONCLUSION: No matter how long ago, and how many Greeks lived in a location Greeks tend to call that location hellenic for eternity... Wake up! Once Macedonians and Greeks may be the same, but now they are NOT and all you Greeks should respect that.

139 as i said ...you can talk to people with wide perception and not narrow-minded ones... to 1453 Seltzuks or today called Turks , were a tribe which was expelled by the rest of the Moggolian tribes , arround 850 a.D They were not inhabbitants of this part of the Mediterenean.. So do not speak about invasions.. even your nick is "crying out" ... Today called Istanbull , is full of Greek monuments (Temple of Ag.Sofia), Effesos, etc.. Pontos or M.Asia...was an area which was occupied by Ioneis at first and then occupied by Persians. Then Byzantium followed , which was a mix of Greek and Roman Culture at first and then Orthodox prevailed.. They were all speaking Greeks and not Latin... Most of that Empire's parts were into the Greek mainland.. As i said Turks appeared at the early 1000s , during the era , where the Crusades took place. As you might have read before the first tribe that apparted the first natives of the Balkan area were Dorieis... I will give you a good point though on Cyprus , since it was first a Finician qonquest, and after them all countries of the world took a turn.. Last one was Greece or better named Byzantium , which established the Greek languange and tradition.But even so, Cyprus was never really under anyone's flag, as Venetian's , English, France and so on , were occupying the Island , cause of its important geo-political and army location. At 1974 , you invaded into the island , taking by force the Northern part of it, ignoring any legal ways to establish any arguments you might had. But this is another discussion. As for "forcing to talk the Turkish languange"....really you should read your history books again...and again...and again... They were the first ones who , demolished churches, temples, schools and every sign of their qonquests culture in order to prevail. Turks of that era , were even gathering children (first born) from their parents , in order to bread them as muslims and ofcourse as Turks. Many of the ancient "miracles" of the Greek culture were destroyed during that period as they were "offered" (!!!!) as treats to people of other countries who did "favors" for the Empire.. Turks as all of the races , all over the world established their existance on the area , with force and blood. As for Macedonia.. someone before me , set an explanation about this name and where it comes from as a term...so i do not need to add anything.. except that when an area was and is called with a name of that origin ... it was and is populated by people of that origin... then i think that this area should be of that origin. Please ..next time you are going to answer , give some real facts and not "air words".. P.S. and lets make something clear. I do not have anything against Turks, Skopjians, Slavs, etc. I just really want to see the history "facts" straight. Thank you Gandalf

140 So talking about the facts huh? Let's make things clear, today you can see monuments even from ancient greece and later times of Byzantium (which is formerly the Eastern Roman Empire that has NOTHING to do with once-upon-a-time greek civilization) all around Anatolia just because Turkish rule has shown extreme indulgence to all other cultures that shared the same geography. I wonder how many Ottoman monuments survived in today's modern(!) Greece? What was the name of the greatest Ottoman mosque in Athens? No mosque in Athens survived? How many Ottoman monuments reamined in Greece? Stange, maybe Ottomans forgot to build monuments in that area? Don't make me laugh =) About "force and blood" issue, after the Ottomans have gained control of Istanbul Fatih Sultan Mehmed gave the ultimate ferman: "No habitant of the city will be harmed, no monument in the city will be damaged, else will be punished lethally, no matter who" and just half a year after the siege has ended twice more ones than the runaways returned peacefully to the city (with their own will) and the population of the greeks and armenians in the city was the peak in its whole history, it was a time of peace for the rest of its time unti WWI (unlike in he late Byzantinium times). Turks came to settle in Anatolia in 1071 AD and since then it is their homeland, you haven't get used to it, get along with it! "Since 1453" there has been peace and prosperity in Anatolia and people from different cultures all lived side by side in peace; that's the origin of it, but still you can get it anyway you wish. By the way, if yours was even to imply that Turks forced people to talk Turkish, your language would have already been extcint by now in that case my friend.These are the real facts, Istanbul case is just a single example of the big picture... How Turks showed great tolerance to other cultures unlike any other. And about the Cyprus issue, Turkey's 1974 intervention to the island was on a purely legal basis, 1960 Zurich-Londan international agreement (founder agreement to the former "Cyprus Republic" which exists no more) which gave right to intervene (to 3 countries: England, Turkey and Greece)when peace is endangered in the island. Go back to 60s and read about the situation yourself (if you can find ANY information in Greek sources) to see how peace was endangered by the hand of Greek cunda using Greek Cypriots to join the island to Greece. I'm wondering if you heard the name EOKA which was a terrorist Greek organization in the island which killed village-full of Turkish Cypriots and forced them to a small region in the Northern Cyprus. I'm quite sure that you haven't heard anything about the "Christmas Massacre" in which their own very holy-day Greeks slaugtered Turkish Cypriots no matter women or even childen! It was all going right on schedule: "The Akitras Plan" according to which Turks on the island will be forced to leave the island or be killed by the armed Greek Cypriot so-called civilians(!) Turkish Cypriots were all forced to group on a small region in the North, to make them easier to kill at once. I wonder if you heard even the name "Akitras Plan" either... So Turkey, after endless discussions with Greece and England to stop violence on the island which gave no conclusion, (BASED ON SOLELY LEGAL RIGHT ESTABLISHED BY 1960 LONDON-ZURICH AGREEMENTS WHICH FOUNDED THE FORMER "CYPRUS REPUBLIC") intervened the conflict which began more than a decade ago and brought back peace in the island. It has been 31 years since nobody is killed in an ethnic conflict in the island. Today there's a completely sovereign contry on the North of the island, "Northern Cyprus Turkish Republic" which has nothing to do with Turkey except the spoken language (still somehow different) and trade. So again, these are the facts my friend, Northern Cyprus is NOT a part of Turkey, and the 1974 intervention was a purely legal "DUTY" of the 3 countries, eventually Turkey had to make the move. Still talking about Cyprus? Look back in what Greek cunda and EOKA did on the island, how they sabotaged peace, that lead to the intervention. Still talking about an invasion? Read about Greek attempt on Anatolia! P.S. I guess now the things are more clear in the light of historical facts, see them straight! You're welcome. _________________________________________][-][_________

141 If you read this page... you will see that once more, all Hellenic people most here give you facts and you talk only with "if" and "or". The facts are facts. The movie alexander the great tell to people that macedonia is greek. once more the movies tell it again into the movie of tomb raider 2. yes yes! Turks, remember that into Costantinople there are just 6 million KURDS and they can fire all turkey for the name of greece hehe!yes yes! believe me that if a war happen into your country is the biggest war! cuz u know... for muslims, as kurds, the religion say some things, but they not say to kill people. kurds back of scene they wait just one war to kill you dudes. whatever of that i will just remember you, as the centuries most nations come here try to take greekce. millions and millions greeks die. after so many centuries. we are just again here one of the most powerful again into the same places and we be still the same! what about turk? tukrey is a country that always learn from greece. hey turks, do you have to let me see a civilization city in turkey? heyeyyyyyy dude! all that who you will tell me is GREEKS, u will try to tell me Costantinople or Smirni or Babylon ;-) are u kidding? this is before all greeks! come the barbarians to stole that cities. back in turkey, do you have any any? yes u have not cuz there is the kurdistan! is silly your talk. remember that: "" TURKS are mongols and should be SHOOT! "" Turkies have no rights, cuz just they are mistake of world! Turks also they are not muslims :-p they try to make them own muslim religion lol! tell me turk, do you know any nation that like you? no one like turks. since 1453 turk kill people, greeks, kurds, armenians etc etc. since 1821, HELLENICS freedom the balkan, and that little nation of GREECE without guns and nothing, just back and shoot out turks from balkans. we are so few and we take ALL THE GREECE yes and costantinople and pontus etc. Just after for a while for the peace of world give half half, cuz when greeks start to kill, we not stop! and we will remove you from this world you like it or not, we just wait that click ;-) so don't think so much, in 1821 we take the whole greece, that time we are so so few without guns and turks are so so many with so many guns, like macedonians with persians :-) thats why macedonia is greek also hehe! Now you simple can think: What greeks will do to turkey if a war, and now is not 1821, we are more and more (but still the same few as nation, as always) and we have guns! just you will prepare and hide into yur caves and you will think that. today or tommorow greeks will kill turks. doesn't matter when, we have to kill so many millions :-) once more Cyprus in all ancient documents write that is hellenic ;-) look historicals maps, and after tell me also where is the turkey? hehe! MACEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK! also... CYPRUS, COSTANTINOPLE, SMYRNI, PONTUS, HPEIROS .. .. and so many other places are HELLENICS!

142 FUCKIN GAY SMELLY SLAVS!!!!

143 MACEDONIANS WHERE GREEKS OF THE DORIAN RACE.YOU FUCKIN BASTARD FYROMIANS ARE A BUNCH OF SLAVOBULGARS WITH ALBANIAN , GYPSIE AND TATAROMONGOLIAN BLOOD IN YOUR FILTHY NAINS!!!..MOTHERFUCKERS!!!..GO STEAL CROATIAS HISTORY!!!!

144 FYROMIANS = ALBANOSLAVOBULGARIAN GYPSIE MONGOLS!!!!!

145 FUCK OFF YOU SMELLY BULGAR FYROMIANS , SLAVISH PIECES OF SHIT!!!!!

146 Gandalf....you fuckin Mongol turkish pig....EVERY PLACE YOU MENTIONED IS OURS!!!..go read some history you smelly ignorant barbarian mongol turk!!!!!!THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE WAS HELLENIC!!!! you motherfucker moslem pig!!!...you came from the steps of Mongolia..AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE GOING TO SEND YOU..WHEN THE TIME COMES!!!..YOUR DOOM IS COMING MONGOL BASTARDS..WE WILL SEND YOU BACK TO YOUR MOTHERLAND ( MONGOLIA )!!!

147 I see in the light of the facts Greeks seem to loose the last bits of sanity and sensibility I thought they have... But that's kind of normal, the moment you can't answer the call of truth, the moment reality a slaps your face, the moment once again the history shows -with evidence- all your blames on Turks are false and worthless, then you Greeks start to vomit your hatred originated from your humbleness in front of the Turks all throughout history. Greeks really are the spoilt kid of Europe in their lap (no offense; even the Greeks say so)! You're really nothing without the support of Europe from your back and you know that, it has always been so, else everything would have been different. And look who's talking about war... There's a word in Turkish: "Defeated Pehlivan* won't get enough of wrestling". You're still dreaming about a war that will never come true unless you try to cross the MERIC RIVER. If you haven't learnt anything from the greatest leader of 20th century Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, learn one thing: "War is murder unless defense of the nation is concerned" and so I say as every citizen of the Turkish Republic; the past is past. Motherland is not the place you once lived 3000 years ago, is it so difficult for the Greeks to live in today's world? It is the Turks protected and preserved Greek culture for almost a millenium. As we live with our Kurdish originated brothers (except for the terrorist PKK and their symphatizans) in peace now, we lived in peace with Greeks, Armenians and more in this geography with showing deep respect to their culture. That's why they still have something they call culture at their disposal. For those of you who are still willing to discuss issues in a sensible manner, you're always welcome to do so. For those of you who are still dreaming to sweep 70 million Turks back to middle asia from where we came, sleep well! Or come to see the places you mentioned are hellenic or NOT... P.S: If you pay attention; I'm not using nor will be using dirty words, so I expect the same for those of you, elsewise is the "incapability" of yourselves. P.S.2: Where's the Greek guy Gandalf telling me not to talk about "air words", see for yourself who's doing so! *Pehlivan = Wrestler _________________________________________][-][_________

148 first of all... Greek Macedonian... I am also from Greece and i to tell you the truth the words you use are not expressing me... Please reply if you wish with arguments as we must do and stop swearing..only idiots do that. SInce 1453.. You still have not set a single historical argument to confont what i have previously set. Attaturk was a Turkish leader , for your country , but he was also responsible for the great massacre of the people in Smirni. It was a time of war and as in all wars , people tend to be more like beasts than human persons. As for the war we are seeking...who is seeking it?...Us, who are staying in our side of the border? Or is it you with your "demands" in Aegean sea, the limmitations of human right regarding Kurds and Armenians , that you dare to use as arguments in your message? Respect to our borders?...Only last week , during the NATO exercise , 45 air-violations took place by your planes. Not to mention Immia which are characterised as a part of Greece by a treatie. Greek Culture has survived , based clearly on our strength and will, and certainly not cause Turks were , "fans" of it. Last week, there was also an annual festival , which was stating the Pontos massacre which is still not accepted by you as a fac. Something that was used as an excepted argument in E.U. , for the noumerous human rights violations you are accused of , among the "white cells" and Kurdish assasinations... "Air words" stands for the lack of arguments , something that you still have not proved you are able to provide. Gandalf p.s. for what it worths, i honour your effort to keep a civillised level on your words and that is why i replied to you...

149 since 1453.. i just read the answer right after my post so give a second to "throw down" all of arguments placed.. Turks were trully residents of Anatolia since the age given... How , though , they were there in the first place?... Through countless raids and fights against the Byzantium which was a mix of Greek tradition and languange ... They did not speak Latin (Romans did), and they were supporters of Christian Orthodox religion right after which was tottaly different than the one the Romans had (Catholics).. So Byzantium was of Greek origin... As for Constantinoupoli (later named as Istanbul) was conquered and occupied by Turks , BY FORCE!!! they were not invited...to stay there.. As for the command of "not to harm anyone". Noone respected it, and the destruction of the richest eastern city was a fact. Pieces of gold leaves and platerns were extracted from the walls of palaces and the temple of Ag.Sofia...which btw, is today, not maintened right and several scrolls and papers of that era , have been found recently in storages, deeped in moisture and fongus. This is how well they were preserved by your Empire. During the seige of Acropolis in Athens, Turkish army , took down marbles and several other structures , which had as a skeleton , inside them ,metal and matterials , in order to use them for gun powder. Parthenon marbles , also called as Elginia today , were extracted from the temple , during your occupance era, as a gift to Lord Elgin, who was also responsible for taking down almost the whole of the temple. That is how well you preserve historical monuments. As for monuments , in our country regarding Turkish origin...PLEASE NAME ONE... cause i really do not not know , a single structure which could even compare to the ones our ancesters build. Cyprus... Still speaking about that island? You seem to forget that Cyprus was under its own flag as a country and also occupied by UK at that time. Indeed there was a time that discussions were taking place, but since you were not satisfied you went into war?...nice... like saying , now , i am not satisfied with your argument ,so i am entittled to take a gun and blow your head off. Indeed another example on how you deal with things that are opposite to your oppinion, on diplomatical level. As for Greeks invading Anatolia...how can you invade into an area which was yours in the first place?... I will agree on you , though that war is turning people into beasts and brutallities were taking part by both parts of that conflict. In conclusion, Greeks are a part of mankind history for 5000 years. They were the first "parents" of philosophy, sciences, art..in the European area. Today we still manage to exist and play a significant role in many issues arround the world , on both, cultural and political level. We still try to be friends with all of our neighbours and run to their aid any time asked... History is a record , which we ALL, really need to study first and talk later. Keep a wide perspective of things and learn from it. We are really proud of our contribution to that record, can you say the same about you? Gandalf

150 Being the first in a place can never ba a basis to your claims in any place... You Greeks tend to claim every piece of soil, it doesn't matter how many Greeks lived and for how long on that soil. "A Greek once lived on the soil you stepped, 6700 years ago, it's mine; back-off!". Speaking on a hypothetical basis, what if we people of the Turkish Republic decide to go back to middle asia from where we came to claim today's Mongolian lands and fight a war for the land just because we used to live there 3000 years ago, is this invasion or not my friend? It is invasion, just as you claimed almost-a-millenium Turkish soil based on your once-upon-a-time fairies... Please I beg you to come back to THE DAYS OF OUR LIVING, overcome this complex of yours; home is not where one's ancestors once-upon-a-time lived, it is where one lives. Besides even more ancient ones used to live on Anatolia before the Greeks; Hitities, Eti's, Assyrians, I wonder how they baceme excint... Oh, yes maybe it was again the Turks who erased them all Or one day you may even claim that Hitities or Eti's were the very ancestors of Greeks upon which you were originated. Then you're still talking about people stealing your(!) history. About the raid of Istanbul when it was Constantinople, look back what the crusaders did to the city before 1453 and read history about how "...the people were trembling within the city walls with the fear of each coming crusade...". Only after that you can understand why people raced with each other to come back and settle in Istanbul under the Ottoman rule which is the evidence that it became a more secure an lively city afer the Byzantines. Yet Byzantines were not the founder of the city but Romans were. I don't know how you can say that Byzantines were of Greek origin; they're purely of Roman origin. Byzantinium was just the eastern part of the Great Roman Empire which LATER accepted Orthodox Christianity and LATER decided to be somehow different from its ROMAN ROOTS. Then you're still talking about people stealing your(!) history. By the way though it is solely because of your own ignorance that you couldn't name any of the Ottoman monuments in your own country but I'll still help you improve yourself: RHODES: "...it's hard to miss the most conspicuous monument in Rhodes, the rust-coloured Süleymaniye mosque. Rebuilt in the nineteenth century on foundations three hundred years older, it's currently closed and under scaffolding like most local Ottoman monuments. The Old Town is in fact well sown with mosques and mescids (the Islamic equivalent of a chapel). A couple of these mosques are still used by the sizeable Turkish-speaking minority here, some of them descended from Muslims who fled Crete between 1898 and 1913 because of the Greek invasion. Their most enduring civic contributions are, opposite the Süleymaniye, the Ottoman Library, with a rich collection of early medieval manuscripts and Korans, and the imposing, still-functioning hamam , or Turkish bath, on Platía Ariónos up in the southwest corner of the medieval city...". ATHENS: "...The old nineteenth-century quarter of Pláka , in particular, is a delight, with its mix of Turkish, Neoclassical and Greek-island architecture..." You can still name more castles, citadels, hamams and bridges (which actually Greeks failed to destroy with the fear of incapability to replace them with their own techniques at those times) of Turkish origin that survived the raid. But apart from those almost all other building, monuments especially mosques, even the smallest ones, were burnt or demolished, some even with inhabitants inside, right after the Ottoman rule has ended on the peninsula or even during the war. There still are lots of great Ottoman monuments all around the Balkans, one of the greatest just at the border city with Greece, Edirne. And you're telling that Ottomans built nothing significant on the peninsula during their half-a-millenium rule over the Greeks? Don't make me laugh, you destroyed them to the smallest ones (save a few of them preserved by the Ottomans as changed to mosques). You can still see remnants of ancient cities of all civilizations lived in Anatolia including Hitities, Greeks, Eti's and even more just because Turks showed tolerance and respect to other cultures all along our history and preserved theirs as you destroyed all but yours. They're not in perfect condition I admit, but neither destroyed to the ground on purpose as Greeks did. You seem to have at least one problem with each of them and strangely you can still trying to support that Greece is showing so extreme effort to get well neighbours.Strange isn't it? =) Your glorious days are 5000 years far from now when there were no rivals aroud you, once again I suggest you to wake up and come to real world. Every nation of course should be proud of their own contibution to that "record" but I know no other to be more proud than the Turks for their contribution. As even of now whoever hates the Turks that's because of their jealousy and humbleness in front of our ancestors. __________________________________________][-][__________

151 And one brief note about Cyprus: I see you haven't touched the EOKA Greeks terrorizing the island and salughtering Turkish Cypriots before Turkish intervention. You still talk like if Turkey "brutally attacked a peacefully living small country" but you know by well, that was not the case before the intervention. It didn't just happened all of a sudden! Turkey's decision to use its LEGAL RIGHT to intervene the almost-civil-war on the island was not an easy one but because of unconcluded diplomatic traffic between Greece-Turkey-UK because neither UK nor Greece (which was responsible for the violence on the island actually) showed no will to stop people from killing each other on the island even when Greek Cypriots put all Turkish presence on the island to a small northern location from where they can be "cleaned" at once within a matter of hours! Sometimes it is not the time to wait-and-see (the people being slaughtered), sometimes it needs more than words to accomplish things, especially peace. For 30 years and nobody got killed in an ethnic conflict which is the evidence of peace restored on the island for a long time now. So who put a gun on who's head? I guess it was the Greek Cypriots to do so on Turkish Cypriots' head! __________________________________________][-][__________

152 Nice... really nice.. arguments at last.. So my friend i am more than willing to discuss with you now. Lets start from the past... Past , history ,or however it is called , makes us what we are. You are talking about Turkish monuments, which exist in Greek soil, though as i told you , i live here and certainly the one you called in Plaka , (downtown Athens) simply DOES NOT EXIST!..at least not in the way you describe it. All buildings in Plaka were build during the early 1900s and certainly do not carry out , Turkish culture. Care to give me your sources uppon that description? But even if we agree on their existance , there is no real comparison with the structures of the era i am describing of. Castles and forts described , were builded by Venetians, Frangous and so on who needed them in order to defend their sea trade and at the same time , have an "observer" in the area. Mistras is one of those forts. The only "wall" and certainly not a castle builded by the Turks , which exists until today was the addition in height of Acropolis perimeter wall, which can be viewed , also in many cards, pictures and so on. Unless you mean that old jail tower in Nafplio , where Kolokotronis was convicted , as a masterpiece of Art which is capable to get into a contest with the temples of Posidon , Artemis , Acropolis, and so on... As for maintaining cultures by Turkish people.. it is quite vissible , by the fact i just mentioned , describing the condition Ag.Sofia temple is and several scripts found in it..and it was broadcasted by BBC and CNN all over the world so it wont be too hard for you to discover it...oh..btw.. Ancient civillisations were not taken out by Greeks , but by Egyptians and Romans... We had nothing to do with that. Quite the opposite , both Persians, Finicians tried to gain over Greek mainland Any way as i am not living in the past as you claim , (though i really learn a lot from it)you are talking that we tend to claim all soils we have stepped on... That is a big LIE...Name one OFFICIAL case that we demand the soil back , based uppon our ancient fathers ,and by trying to step on our neighboors.. i could name a few , for your own country, sadly enough. Immia, Grey zones "demands" and so on.. not to mention air violations which were brought in front of E.U. as a counter argument , concerning your "repsects" to a country-member of the E.U. As for problems with neghbours...need to remind you that they are the ones who are taking an offensive position towars us? Albanians with the "great country of their?" FYROM "which was a part of Tito's Yugoslavia" suddenly decided to be named after a greek name? (described the origin of the word above) Turkey which is always trying to get hands on positions over the Aegean islands? Have you ever heard as i said before a single argument by the Greek goverment which is demanding foreign soil or names?...no..not a single one... We still stay on our side of the borders and some take it as a "sign of weakness"...Several before them have made that same error and got a creamed face as souvenir.. EOKA, was a fictional organisation , made up by the UK and Turkey just like the exaguration made by the Clinton goverment for the slaughters made by Servians. But even if that was true, (which was not) and the proofs were true , why then the UN never took place next to your side? Why was not there an effort like the one made for Serajevo and Iraq to take it "in the clear"?...answer...cause proofs were not there... it was just an excuse , in order for the Turkish army , to gain harbours and significant army locations into the mediteranean and close to Iran , Syria and other countries , which were "unfriendly" to you (and still are i think!!) So the Turkish army , with absolutelly no warning , whatsoever , invade the island and are still there , despite obvious pressures by E.U and UN .. Despite the promise of Greece to tottal disarmament of the island .. Do i still need to remind you , that the biggest obstacle for Turkey to join E.U. is cause of Cyprus occupance? We are living in the present , and we are looking into the future.That is why , we are a part of the western world and play such significant roles in both cultural and political level. We do not want to keep others back .Not even your country which is proving to behave in hostile way against us. We support your petition to join E.U. Only term is to respect us and our borders...and that same term is for the rest of the Balkans.. That is why we are friends now with Bulgary , Romany and so on.. With Italy, Servia and so on... all of them are in our borderline and do not have problems with them.. Gandalf P.S. I have to thank you again for standing up to your beliefs and provide intelligent discussions , comparing to other "unfortunate" discussions with other people here .

153 P.S. and just to make clear my term stated as "fictional" , EOKA was an organisation founded at the middle 1940s , right after the WWII when Cyprus was fighting to get independent against Britain's rulers.Something that was achieved in the early 1960s ... Few years before a small percentage of the Turkish people in the area started to commit offences against both Greek and Turkish Cypriots citizens and their properties. And that was the "step over" that both Turkish and Britain goverment used as an official excuse to engage in those "official bargains" for an island right in front of Shuez canal , next to most of the countries with oil production.. Under no circumstances , that organisation could be named as "terrorists" or "criminals"... Unless you think that they should be enlisted under the same category as you characterised PKK... Gandalf

154 Name me one big Ottoman mosque (built by them not converted from a church to be preserved) survived on the Greek peninsula then we'll go on with our discussion with who preserves other cultures' history. But don't come to me with the argument that Ottomans didn't build anything on the peninsula, look all around Balkans it's full of Ottoman monuments (bridges, mosques, hamams, libraries, castles lots of things) how can you even claim that they didn't put 2 stones on each other for almost half a millenium they ruled over you! Preservation is something, taking care of is something else, you have to preserve it not demolish it, to take care of later. Now abut the Greek claims, I have never spoken a word of any OFFICIAL claims done by you, you could never dare to do OFFICIAL claims about any piece of soil anymore, but for the sake of making things clear the last time was the Greek Junta claimed the whole of Cyprus to be joined to mother Greece. Not to mention that you went war against Turkey claiming its very own soil (the soil upon which TURKISH people live as a majority) which ended with your defeaty in 1922. Nevertheless those were not the ones I have been mentioning but your words as Izmir, Istanbul, Cyprus, Blacksea region all being "HELLENIC". The claim I'm talking about is saying that a place is hellenic and to do that claim it's enough for you that just a few Greeks lived on thet geography for several millenia before. According to you that place is hellenic no matter what raced lived thereon beore and after you. So, yes you UNOFFICIALLY claim every step of soil to be hellenic which is actually WRONG! The only places hellenic are TODAY'S GREECE and the SOUTHERN PART OF CYPRUS but NOTHING MORE! As for the EOKA being "fictional", I've heard many excuses from the Greeks but, no offense but, this is the silliest among them all I've ever heard!!! What should one must do to prove you that it's real? Search google with the letters EOKA and see how much material you'll find. I know lot more than you think about the history of EOKA, no matter when (in 1955) or with which aim (to accomplish unification of the island with Greece - ENOSIS) it was founded all its acts after could ony and only be categorized as terrorism. BRIEF NOTE ON EOKA: "EOKA [Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston - National Organization of Cypriot Fighters] started a guerrilla campaign against British colonial rule aimed at self-determination and union with Greece (Enosis)on 01 April 1955. The campaign, which started when the first EOKA bombs exploded at 00.30 hours on 1st of April 1955, lasted until 1959 and caused the death of more Turkish Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed. It created civil strife and mistrust between the two Cypriot communities. Tension increased in early 1957, when EOKA attacked Turkish police and auxiliaries. EOKA received direct support from Greece in money, arms, organization and propaganda. Greek-speaking Cypriots were awed by EOKA terrorists and subject to bombardment by Athens radio. Under a 1959 compromise settlement known as Zurich-London agreements (which also include RIGHT OF INTERVENTION to 3 GUARANTEER STATES: Greece, Turkey, UK -- ][-][), Cyprus became an independent Republic in 1960. EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974, in collaboration and cooperation with Greece, to attack the Turkish Cypriots, one of the two co-founding partners of the Republic of Cyprus, with the aim of uniting the Island with Greece." EOKA killed more than 400 Turkish Cypriot civilians between the years 1963-1968 including women and unprotected chidren - of which evidential photos are also available that I can send to anyone upon request -. However so few photos can be found in the name of the acts of terrorist EOKA because Turkish Cypriots have already been "cleaned" from all public organizations, including even health services, and total control of the island was at the hands of Greek Cypriot communinity and thus the Greek junta. All phone lines were broken and all press material to be leaving the island were subject to Greek Cypriot authorities to be censored when seemed neccessary. This photo I speak of women and children killed by EOKA terrorist ON THE CHRISTMAS OF 1963 was escaped from the island as put inside the plaster of a wounded Turkish Cypriot. If you dare enough to see and learn the truth you can search the letters EOKA on the web and you can find enough convincing evidence on the subject matter. No more words on EOKA being an "existent" and "terrorist" organizaton, yes, just as PKK. No matter which organization, under which name, founded with what aim, kills unarmed civilians, that's a terrorist organization! From 1960 to 1974 Turkey forced every possible diplomatic way to stop violence and resolve conflicts on the island with Greece and UK. Stop pretending as if all the problems emerged in 1974 with Turkey intervening the conflict on the island, stop pretending as if ethnic conflicts first started by Greek terrorist organization EOKA had never happened, stop pretending as if Greek Cypriots never tried to realize ENOSIS by killing or terrorizing Turkish Cypriots, stop pretending as if Turkish Cypriots haven't been cleaned from all public duties and the island haven't been under de-facto Greek rule for years; there's a long past chain of events involving Greek Cypriot terrorists backed up from Greek junta and endless diplomatic traffic between 3 countries, not to mention countless WARNINGS Turkey expressed before using its RIGHT TO INTERVENE. P.S. my source to my last post on Athens: www.justgreece.org my source to brief note on EOKA: www.globalsecurity.org (both of them are sources reflecting Greek point of view) P.S.2 my e-mail is doors_demon@yahoo.com and I will send pictures to what EOKA terrorists did on the island upon request via e-mail (if you even dare to see them). __________________________________________][-][_________

155 here is a link with new map of GREECE and KURDISTAN ;-) check out. the comments yours hehe! http://www.geocities .com/xtomailx/maps/index.html NOTE: YES proudly EOKA is a FREEDOM GROUP who killed all bastards turks and british when they come in cyprus. READ: 1955 ELLAS KUPROS ENOSIS: some kids into ages 14-22 stole some army guns and kick out british army from cyprus! PROUDLY GREEK KIDS FOREVER. Just at last look the map ok :-) http://www.geocities .com/xtomailx/maps/index.html MACEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK HELLENIC TURKS ARE MONGOLS AND SHOULD BE SHOOT! NEW GREEK AND KURD MAP. MSG: KILL TURKS! and REMOVE TURKS FROM WORLD AS WE DO PERSIANS I HAVE GIVE PROOFS I TALK I ASK. BUT NO ANSWER CUZ THAT MEANS THEY HAVE NOT PROOFS. PEOPLE LIKE YOU WITHOUT ANSWER>>> STUPID> In all forum i not say nothing for bad talk... but now i can free say cuz you are real stupid turks, skopje and albanians. i have answer in all your messages... but i have NO answer in mine texts cuz simple you bastards! without nothing to tell, only stupid things. just run and read my test on and answer me ;-) if NOT answer that means you have no proofs. accept answers only with proofs like me. :-)

156 First of all , fellow Greeks, please keep this civillised ... Our friend here, since 1453 , is talking uppon soemething with arguments, with no swearings and he is certainly entittled to support his point of view... So please stop swearing ... it cal only bring down the level of this discussion... As for my friend since 1453,(and i mean the word "Friend" since i have nothing against you)... EOKA as stated was a Freedom group , struggling for independence against British rulling. Your source it does express the Greek point of view , although there is not a single point in that text that speaks about "photos from terrorist acts"..the part that is mentioning... {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974, in collaboration and cooperation with Greece, to attack the Turkish Cypriots, one of the two co-founding partners of the Republic of Cyprus, with the aim of uniting the Island with Greece." EOKA killed more than 400 Turkish Cypriot civilians between the years 1963-1968 including women and unprotected chidren - of which evidential photos are also available that I can send to anyone upon request -. However so few photos can be found in the name of the acts of terrorist EOKA because Turkish Cypriots have already been "cleaned" from all public organizations, including even health services, and total control of the island was at the hands of Greek Cypriot communinity and thus the Greek junta.}}}}}}}}}}}} is not mentioned anywhere in the Greek source and i am wondering , where is it originated from. "Fictional" was an "unlucky used term" of mine to show you that EOKA was not a terrorist group...It was a liberation movement , just like IRA (when it was firts formed, not today), like PKK and so on.. As for claims... as you have previously stated in your posts. how can i claim something that was mine in the first place?...Same goes for Greece here, as the sea-side of Black-Sea was inhabbited by the race of Pontious... Smirni and Istanbull were given to us , after a war against you , with Lozane treaty which was giving us Dodekanisa, and the seaside of Western Anatolia (as you prefer to call it) including Smirni. The only Islands legaly given to you were Imvros (where i was borned) and Tenedos . I know now , from first hand , how people of Turkish regimes , hunted down every Greek person , familiarised with his fortune and send them away , under no excuse. And to support my arguments i am reminding you that Turkey has been convicted by the EU courts , to pay back all "taken away" fortunes of , former Greek residents of the area... As for your claimings,,,your unreasonable demands (your goverment's i mean) were made in an oficial way , concerning sea boundaries on the Aegean Sea, Imia, and so on... Which were all legally given to us , as a part of several treaties... I will answer to your mail for a more , intermediate chat, (and more peacefull i hope) for further comments on anything you wish... Gandalf

157 OK, EOKA and IRA may be formed as a rebellion acts for liberation and standing for self-determination AT FIRST, but not thereafter (as I know a lot about them unlike seems that you know NOTHING about PKK). The island of Cyprus became an independent republic by the year 1960 based on 2 ethnic communities: Turkish and Greek. If the aim of EOKA were the liberation of island, it has already been accomplished by that time, what was it doing on the island after that? If the liberation(!) was not yet complete by 1960, when would it be completed? The EOKA answer was straight; it can only be accomplished when all Turks were wiped off from the surface of the island and ENOSIS (unification with Greece mainland) is completed. For that reason EOKA killed more Turkish Cypriot civilians than they killed British (including their soldiers). EOKA continued its activities to liberate(!) the island even after 1960 from Turkish Cypriots (civilians) with using brute force and putting gun on their heads. That is what makes them a TERRORIST GROUP (not at the instant it was founded but later) just like IRA and BASK. However I can't go on further before mentioning a small fact that makes significant difference between these TERRORIST groups with TERRORIST PKK (active in the south-eastern region of Turkey which claimed 30,000 - YES 30,000 - lives of the citizens of Turkish Republic, including almost 5000 soldiers of the Turkish Army fighting terror, which means they caused more than 25,000 civlian causalities) since 1980. The difference is that, when it was first formed, PKK was formed as a TERRORIST ACT RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING. All their actions were against the civilians, including bombings in major cities all around Anatolia not only in the south-eastern part in the 80's, before Turkish Army started hunting them down. COCNCLUSION: Any organization pointing guns towards unarmed civilians is terrorist a organization without further discussion. Though all EOKA, IRA, BASK and PKK (under numerous different names) fall into this category, only PKK differs from others by being FORMED (FOUNDED) AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING. You couldn't even imagine how my childhood passed in the fear of terror, so don't come to me with more ignorant and stupid claims on terrorism, terrorist groups and what is terrorism, I've lived it and I know how is it like! One more point to be cleared out in the last post of GANDALF: Lausanne Treaty didn't grant control to Greeks of any piece of soil on Anatolia. It was once Sevres Treaty which has been RIPPED-OFF with the Turkish War of Independence, never to come back ever again. Lausanne Treaty giving a part of Anatolia was either a misunderstanding of mine or a repeated ignorance of yours my friend. On the Aegean, by the way, according to the Lausanne Treaty "12 major Aegean islands and minor outlying islets of theirs, which are BETWEEN the major island and the Greek mainland peninsula are thereafter under Greek control with the restriction that no airfields or military establishments can be founded upon any of them" - READ IT CAREFULLY!!! leaving the rest of the islets (approximately 150 of them) and 2 mid-sized islands Gokceada and Bozcaada (with the reason that they're too close to the Canakklae Strait and therefore may BLOCK the way at will), which are extensions from the 2 opposite sides of the Canakkale Strait actually, to Turkey. And about the "hellenic"(!) claims, even if something were yours at the beginning (which was not actually) you can NOT claim anything out of it after 5000 years. Talking about Anatolia, many different civilizatons grew on this land for several millenia, long before the appearence of Greeks; the Hitite's, the Eti's, Frygian's, Iskit's, even Assyrians and Babylonians on this very land. Anatolia has not been Greek at first but later, for some time, which was a long past from now, giving no basis for any "hellenic"(!) claims on this land, in our times. If all were to make claims on the geographies the lived once, Turks (in addition to its current geography) should be claiming all the Balkans, North of Africa up to Iberian Peninsula and Middle East up to Middle Asia including some part of today's China (mostly the Middle Asia & China because we lived there first(!), 6000 years ago ). However this would have been a silly claim, yet no sillier than the Greek point of view on Anatolia. Just as other civilizations lived on this peninsula long before us and among us thereafter, many have also lived before the Greeks! But, just to mention, among them all Istanbul being hellenic(!) is the funniest claim, since, formerly being Constantinople, the city was founded purely by the Romans long before the eastern part of the Roman Empire, which was of Latin origin (NOT Greek at all), started calling itself Byzantinium and accepted Orthodox religion. So though it is not a healty way to look through, you Greeks are inconsistent with yourselves when saying Istanbul is hellenic (meaning of Greek origin), it is wrong even from your point of view because Latins lived there long before you, they were the first to found the city. GOT IT? GOOD! P.S: Thanks for Thessaloniki Voice showing the real face and real way of thinking of the Greek people. But your map needs updating since you forgot to give away the north-eastern region of Anatolia to Armenians, don't upset them! As I said before, sleep well so in your dreams you may see them. P.S2: I've given away all my sources to my comments in "quotation marks", plus I'll send the photos I've been talking about showing resuts of terrorist acts of EOKA in Cyprus. __________________________________________][-][_________

158 About the issue of Cyprus,,, I have answered to your email so i find it ,useless to continue on here.. You are right about the Sevres treaty, (my mixup..that is true), but Airfields are mentioned in Lausane treatie as mentioned.. http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:bBgaSGhWVT0J:www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS041.pdf+air+border+treaties+Greece-Turkey&hl=el the link has a nice description of our borders.. Dodekanisa were assigned to us, under the Paris treaty in 1947. Thank you for giving me a chance to clear the facts... my bad... As for continuing the debate..well right now you have my email , so the ball is in your court.. Gandalf

159 my appologies for the long link of mine here is the one needed to download a .pdf of the description given. http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS041.pdf Gandalf

160 RE MALAKA!! Since 1453, bla-bla-bla no facts.. The Greeks have allways lived in Cyprus, and we will allways do, go home to asia! It has allways belonged to Greece and will allways do. Why are you fighting this fight, that only greece can win? Cyprus IS greek, wether you like it or not. So leave our island alone....And IF you wish to stay - stay as tourists in Greece! For that is what cyprus belongs to! Cyprus is just as greek as Crete! ////FC CREW 2005

161 All countries around hate Turkey cuz they are like mongols. NO facts. 6 millions KURDS wait Greek signal to help GREEKS to smash whole TURKEY! READ THIS: READ HERE ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A year after Hashan pasha with 10000 men besieged Konstantinos Kolokotronis and Panagiotes Venetsanakis with 150 men and women, in two towers in Kastania. They fought 12 days and finally most of them were killed. The prisoners of war were tortured and cut in peaces. The wife of Konstantinos Kolokotronis was dressed like a warrior and fought her way carrying her baby who was Theodoros Kolokotronis the future leader of the great revolution of 1821. After the war of 1770 the Maniates were forced to pay to the Sultan 15.000 groshes ever year. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Turkey need 12 days with 10.000 thousands Turks army with guns to kill 150 Greek men, women and childrens. You see what happen when u try to fight Greeks? But how many or better how many thousands Turks killed in that fight? For sure more and more.

162 WE WILL FIGHT IF NECESSARY! DONT THINK THAT YOU COUCKGHY TURKS, MONGOLS OR TO MAKE IT EASIER; MONKEYS!!! By the way! "Thessaloniki Voice!", would you like to join our organisation free cyprus? we fight to free cyprus from the turks, and makedonia from the skopjans.... FREE CYPRUS AND MAKEDONIA!! ////FC CREW 2005

163 Albanians are cool! They have helped Greek economy tremendously. We should be grateful to them and not treat them bad. Besides we should not forget that there are a lot of Greeks of Albanian origin (Arvanites). Take some of the Greek surnames: Kriezis, Voglis, etc. They are all ALBANIAN WORDS! Albanians came to Greece for the first time in the 11th century. Furthermore, a lot of the Greek heroes of Independence were of Albanian origin like Karaiskakis, Markos Botsaris, Bouboulina. Those stupid boys who shout in the football stadiums racist slogans against Albanians might be of Albanian origin too without being aware of it! The problem is that in all schools in the Balkans, history is taught in an ETHNOCENTRIC way, presenting our balkan neighbours as enemies. Chrissi Avgi (Golden Dawn) is a group of Fascists with a Nazi ideology. A very dangerous group for the Greek nation. These guys enjoy hitting immigrants, homosexuals, and on the whole everyone who is "different". But don't be afraid of them. Their IQ is less than zero!!!! Finally, all of us in the Balkans have interacted with one another culturally over the centuries. Each nation has influenced every other. We Greeks have influenced and have also been influenced by our Balkan neighbours. Don't forget the big number of Turkish words that exist in all the Balkans' vocabulary. Some examples: fukara, budalla, zori, tavani, meraki, etc. Last but not least, we should all bear in mind that all cultures in the world are equal and no culture is superior or inferior to any other. Don't forget that "A Barbarian is someone who believes in the barbarity of the other". With friendly regards to everyone in the forum Nikos from Greece

164 well, it is a nice message, although it is a bit one-sided... First of all 11TH Century and Albanians?...To start with ... there was no noation called Albania at that time , since the area was first occupied by Turkish Empire and right afterwards by the Enetians and several other of Italian origin people and casts. Golden Dawn is indeed supporting the fascist idea.Their IQ?... i am not eqquiped to judge them as humans...i am able to judge them for their beliefs. UCHEKA does also believe in the same way for thei Ethnic origin. does this make them stupid also?.. or did you forget them? Karaiskakis origin was from Arvanites indeed, which under no circumstances could have been called Alvanoi... Tsamides were the ones who were later called Albanians...btw... Bouboulina was born in Spetses by parents of Ipiros origin and certainly not by Arvanites or Tsamides... i do not think you are right on this one. And finally , could you elaborate on the issue that is describing that Albaninas helped out Greek Economy?... caus over what i know , from political and financial studies, it is the other way arround.. Exchange currency was moved out without taxes. Offered jobs to several thousands of people who were starving under Berissa's ruling. Loans were given on international level to build hospitals and several other corporations , which brought reduced rate on investments for inside bussines of Greece.. Also ,until today, there are several loans given to Albania , from Greece as a result of a Balkan treaty while Prime Minister Simitis was in charge of Greece's goverment... Now if you are reffering to the Olympic Games of Athens, you should know that besides Albanians (who would be too starving if those jobs did not exist in the first place), Pakistanians, Filippinese, Polands, Germans, French and so on were also working for this INTERNATIONAL event... As for Turkish languange...noone deny this.. it is a natural outcome of 400 years of occupance at Balkan's area. Gandalf

165 Sorry for any grammar and syntax mistakes , as i was typing fast.. Gandalf

166 well about language. Turkey have nothing to say. Look at CIA world Factbook ;-) The 20% of Turks are KURDS so the languages knowing official in Turkey are: Turkish 71%, Kurdish 21%, Greek (Hellenic) 3% Arab - Armenian & others 5%. About Albania... albania was for first time this name arround 18th cenury i think. Before and the ancient name is Illyrians. At start Illyrians are a kind country-city like athenians and spartans, so they are too Greek. After long time when barbarians come they mixed with them. So Illyrians the today albanians are a nation with no identify by past and the only Greek province of ancient that mixed with other. so thats why they are not greeks till today. Alexander the great have in his army and Illyrians so that happen before they mixed. I know that albanians when they back to them country they speak there almost more the GREEK Language cuz they want to saw to other that they are in Greece who is better ;-) and via that to talk Greek feeling like they are albanians but a half greek so that feel more better than other Albanians. Arvanites are GREEKS lived there and they gone cuz they are not the mixed Illyrians but they are clear as well. Thats why. As you see Arvanites is a greek absolutly word by syntax. ;-) so as well don;t be silly with this. That who i said i take source by the UNI-Stuttgart in Germany that i study before and as well all uni in europe say the same. Keep smile as macedonia is greek like hpeiros, imbros tenedos, cyprus, m.asia and costantinoupoli.

167 Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... ------------------------------------------------- ######## ##################################### ######## ##################################### ######## ######## ######## ######## ############################# ############################# ######## ######## ######## ######## ######## ##################################### ######## ##################################### ################################################# ################################################# ################################################# ################################################# ------------------------------------------------- Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... -- www.codelux.gr www.codelux.org www.i-macedonia.com www.uigr.com www.greekhackers.org -- cosmmin@gmail.com hellas@codelux.gr --

168 Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------------------------------- |########````####################################| |########````####################################| |########````########````````````````````````````| |########````########````````````````````````````| |````````````````````############################| |````````````````````############################| |########````########````````````````````````````| |########````########````````````````````````````| |########````####################################| |########````####################################| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |################################################| |################################################| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |################################################| |################################################| -------------------------------------------------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... -- www.codelux.gr www.codelux.org www.i-macedonia.com www.uigr.com www.greekhackers.org -- cosmmin@gmail.com hellas@codelux.gr -- Copyright ©1999-2005 Codelux.org. All rights reserved.

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170 well my friend "kostasandaleko" kosta kai aleko. you ask me to join ////FC Crew. Well... mporeite na mou steilete email me more info peri tou thematos :-) steilte mou email sto < cosmmin@gmail.com > < c o s m m i n @ g m a i l . c o m > i will be wait for. keep up. cu...

171 thessalonici voice: Pws na se steiloume mail an den exoume to mail sou ? /Kostas apo FC Crew

172 ela nai. email to: c o d e l u x @ g m a i l . c o m ta leme. elpizw soon. Thessaloniki Voice!

173 I am German and i have some friends in my uni which are from Albania and they are cool and friendly At our College anyone likes them but its so difrent with Greecks they are stupid racist and bid head beter to say they are idiots Grecks most give Chamria to Chams other ways we will help albania to. German brothers now we got new mision with Turks ,USA and Albanias LETS DESTROI ALL BASTARD OF BALLKAN (I MEAN GREECE)

174 hey dude... i know that you are NOT German (deutch). As well i live for many years somewhere out of Stuttgart, near to Reutlingen... i am excacly in Tubingen. I know Turks, Albans and germans. By default Greeks is the ONLY nation ACCEPT by DEUTCH people. As i look arround the german people talk racist about TURKS and ALBANIANS. They have lot joke for them ;-). Every GERMAN hate TURKS. They are dirty and silly. About albans in germany, as well hmmm... is so few... i think does NOT exist. as i am there i know just some. BUT albanians are same everywhere... like greece hehe... i mean about work, they stay home and they do everything you tell them. they have no mind by default. Maybe the albans in germany are different than here. About turks. the only nation who turks trust in germany is the greeks... and you know what they say? is better Greeks than Germans. Turks in germany are not absolutly muslims :-p they live a bit like Christians. Also Germans mortal emeny is the usa. hey you silly bastard albanian! by the way guys... check out him profile! http : // profiles . yahoo . com / kollabani he looks like DEUTSCH????????????????????? God are you LoSt! You want in your dreams to be like them. ALSO, Chams? lol? whats this? Is HPEIROS! remember... an muslim like albania have the CHRISTIAN FLAG of HPEIROS in them FLAG. YOU know what is the sqhip? That 2 heads in bird? means the DOMINUS HELLENIC EMPIRE who look to east and west. that is... :-) absolutly GREEK ablolutly! do you remember 1940? Second World War! You stay home and pray the god to save you till GREEKS come and kick out the NAZIS! then you go out in all albania and you loud GREECE GREECE! if you not...sure your grandparents remeber it. What about a nation that NOT war and what about a nation who before are Christian and after Turks comes they change religions to save them selfs! Lol... we still hold on for years and years. and at last. we make peace and freedom back again to balkan area and we kick out the turks once more. we go till Constantinople and Smyrna and we win! by 1821 Greeks into Hellenic land are just 1 millions. We war 150 man VS 10.000 and we not stop there... :-) This is my litle proud nation that you not know what can do. Greece can take Bulgaria, Skopje and Albania with war at a day. But not do it. Cuz we are peacefull. not like you barbarians. As you see... Other nations like usa make wars cuz have power. if albania have people more than, then will try to make a war. but we not. but we can simple win every power nation. i know if a war happen in greece, lot of people will not go BUT for sure that the little people who will stay, will give all them soul and body to war. and who can stop them? I will remember you and somethin g else. 1955, Cyprus - ELLAS KUPROS ENWCIS! - Some school kids ages arround 16-22 stole some guns from Army and send british whole army to them home. who? Just some kids. Turks army learn to people that can take the Greece if a war after 72 hours. lol, in 72 hours? :-p today is 1 greek vs 8 turks. but before lots years are 1 greek vs 70 turks. but we win 1 to 70. how you thing turkey will take greece after 72 hours when now is 1 to 8 ? NOTE: 25% of turk population are KURDS! and guess! they wait a war to kill for us the half turkey army. Before you talk you must thing dude. GREECE _GREECE MACEDONIA - CYPRUS - CONSTANTINOPLE - HPEIROS - PONDOS - M.ASIA :: are HELLENIC LANDS! THESSALONIKI VOICE! proudly also we keep the HALF army of Hitler more than 2 months with only some guys in ROUPEL! DON'T FORGET... ... WORLD CELEBRATE THE FIRST WIN IN SECOND WORLD WAR WHEN GREEKS MAKE IT AND WIN THE NAZIS-FAIIST AND KICK OUT IN SEA... army should go walk by athens sparta alexandroupoli crete thessaloniki and we meet at GREEK EVER HPEIROS...we see the fasist and nazis, we war them... we kick them and kick them... we not kick them only from greece... we kick out more... we go into albania as albans loud GREECE WIN! and at end we kick out to sea. Thessaloniki Voice! -------------------- kostaleko apo / FC Cyprus. to email einai: < c o d e l u x @ g m a i l . c o m > --------------------- HELLAS.2005

175 c o d e l u x @ g m a i l . c o m i forma de dexete to email sto text logika gia logous spamming. opote kane click ekei pou leei thessaloniki voice! dipla apo to "posted by:" kai tha to deis ok. ta leme.

176 OLOI APO TO GAMESWAY.GR SAS GAMAME ESAS TOUS SKOPIANOUS...SAS GAMAME K TA RIXNOUME PANW STIS MAMADES SAS..

177 GAMIETAI H ALBANIA, H TOURKIA ,TA SKOPIA KAI OI NEKROI TOUS

178 As a proud Albanian, I believe to have my spare part of saying too. 7 years ago as I was vacationing in Greece in a small basketball camp in Pefcohori (spelling), I had the chance to meet a guy and a basketball fellow named Nikos Galis (spelling) As I talked to him about life, basketball and people, I could only see happiness, love and respect in everyone’s eyes. …As years went by, I see that joy, happiness and respect is getting diminished while a new life full of disbelief, anger and "hatred" (note: hate is a reaction to an action) is starting to unveil in the heart of Albania, Tirana(of course, when talking about politics, since there is more of life than just that). As a mushroom cloud directed towards the sky, so is the hatred expended towards every living Albanian. To fast forward….I wonder: why have the people I know, friends, cousins, neighbors, and everyone become like this? Why have I become in the last 30 minutes like them? I believe the answers can be found with some help from one/many of the Greek folks in this blog/ Well, I would like that one of you Greeks put yourself in my shoes/position: a happy reader, proud USMC private (but that don't matter), simple citizen who tries to contribute to his community and read the contents of this page. Why do I feel this fast and increasing anger, hatred of extinction for a Greek race after reading the humiliating and discriminating things? I think it’s harder to make a friend from a stranger than lose that friend. Have I converted to a Greek enemy? I am having second thoughts. One thing is certain: As an Albanian I condemn those Albanians that work and contribute labor to Greece (just as Mexicans do in USA) in exchange for persecution and discrimination (not Mexicans) in return (but I wonder if Albanian emigrants are of Albanian race, since I have traveled every foot and inch of my county, I hope that you agree with me that I know a thing or two about it: Albanians that emigrate in hell, sorry I meant Greece, are %2 of total ppl from South Albania, short, dark called VORIOEPIR(spelling), emigrants from Assyrians empire just as modern day Greece is, emigrants who make a face for the rest of the Albania. I think I have talked enough for not being paid :=) Please, respond as to why should I not “hate” (I mean one of a suicidal kind, please believe) but like Greece? As far as Macedonians, I don’t see a problem of them not liking their own Albanian population, if they want to divide and weaken their county, so be it. Albanians in Macedonia are welcomed, and can unite with the motherland as far as I am concern. By the way, I will boycott my vacation I had scheduled for Santorini. Sorry, I rather contribute my tourist money to Turkey this year and visit Antalya. At lease will go towards a good cause. Statement: TO ALL ALBANIANS, PLEASE BOYCOT (DO NOT BUY) GREEK GOODS UNTIL THINGS CHANGE! TO ALBANIAN EMMIGRANTS IN GREECE: PLEASE RETURN HOME OR IMMIGRATE ANYWHERE ELSE BUT GREECE. TO ALL MY AMERICANS TURKISH AND ALBANIAN BROTHERS:LONG LIVE USA, TURKEY AND ALBANIA (O-ARRNAUTS).

179 blah..blah..blah..again no facts... and let me have a piece of doubt about you meeting or even talking to Galis, while supporting this kind of oppinion towards Greece. Lets make one thing clear. ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE WELLCOMED TO GREECE, as long as they do not think that a piece of our country is theirs... period. I too have friends or known people of Albanian origin or even Turkish origin. Respect is mutual on those cases. However , all of those people react in negative way , when their rights and beliefs are harmed or violated in any way , expesially from people who are prejudiced like you. Your reference to the area as Macedonia , while on diplomatic ways and in general international affairs is still called FYROM , shows how "objective" you are. And something for you. Albania at this point is maintened by Greek investments , on a 45-55% of their national income. If they choose to follwo your suggestions , then they might have problems on even how to live from now on. Not to mention , that almost 600-900.000 Albanian people are living here. As for vacations, i would not suggest Turkey at this point , due to the unfortunate terrorist attacks happening there. (Hope that this will stop, at some point , and i hope that people there will live agian their peacefull lifes) Gandalf

180 PLEASE to all of you balkans, CALM DOWN!!! You must accept that greeks gave to the other nations culture and civilization 2.500 years ago. unfortunately 350 years under the turkish occupation stayed away from other acivities (exploring the world, physics law etc.) Read the following, these are from 2.5 milleniums before, especially from the hand of Alexander: Hellanius presents the father of macedonians, Macedon, is son of Aiolos meaning that he considered them an aeolian greek tride (Hellanius,FGrHist 4,74).Arrian (Arrian,Alexandrou Anavassis 2. 14. 4.) writes that Alexander on his letter to Dareius wrote Your ancestors came in Macedonia and rest of Greece and assaulted us.After i became leader of the Greeks i came to asia to willing to punish Persians.The phrase macedonia and rest of greece is also present in the treaty between Annibas and Philip V (Polybius, 7. 8. 9.).Also in Titus Livius (31. 29. 15.) where he places macedonians among aetolians as greek tribes.Also in Polybius (5. 103. 9.) where Agelaus from Nafpactos wishes to end wars among Aetolians and Macedonians intergreek wars as he names them.The Efessians from an inscription in Efessos (SIG 867, 38-40) ...in the macedonians and the rest Greek tribes... I live in Thessaloniki. This is the name of the sister of Alexander the great. NO ONE MAKEDONIAN would change this name to Solun. Correct me PLEASE if I am wrong. PS. for the albanian neighbours, do you know what does it mean the symbol and the colour of your flag? Also I feel very dissapointed when I see that all your hopes are to Uncle-Sam and in Turkey. Both politicians are very clever(in opposite to the greeks) they don't like you, they just want you to be our enemies for profit.

181 BE GREEK OR DEAD!!! WE FUCKED YOUR ANCESTORS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF HISTORY! Everyone who hates us has a mother working for me in Amsterdam as a Transexual!! Ante Giea

182 HERE ARE SOME PHRASES ABOUT GREEK CIVILIZATION THAT I FOUND ORIGINALLY FROM FOREIGN SITES OF THE INTERNET AND I COPYRIGHTED AND PASTED THEM HERE: Regarded by many as the cradle of Western civilization and the birthplace of democracy, Greece has a long and rich history during which its culture has proven especially influential in Europe, Asia and Africa. # Greece is a country of a rich cultural heritage. Democracy was invented in Athens, Greek culture is the mother of Roman culture and has very much influenced other civilisations. # Ancient Greek culture, particularly as developed in Athens, was the principal source of Western civilization. # Ancient Greece was a great civilization from which came major contributions to present-day society. Greece is the birthplace of the first Olympic games, great minds like Aristotle and Plato, and is home to the breathtaking, ancient architecture of the Acropolis in Athens # Greece is the birthplace of civilization # greece is the cradle of western civilization # http://www.upatras.gr/dsp2002/greece.htm # Greece is the birthplace of the “father of medicine” Hippocrates, who believed the body should be treated as a whole and that food should be medicine # greece is one of the oldest civilizations # greece is the land where the ancient gods chose to reside # The pillar of Western civilization, Greece is the birthplace of democracy and the Olympics, the land of Plato, Sophocles and Homer. Greeks are very proud to show the value of their rich cultural heritage, and Greece has become a popular tourist destination for lovers of old rocks and Mediterranean beaches # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization, having given rise to reason, philosophy, science and democracy # It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of the Gods and mythic heros, as well as other extraordinary personalities such as poets, rheteurs and philosophers who taught the art of reasoning, and discussion. A country where human beings loved working with their hands to create works of art, in which a large number can still be admired today. # Not surprisingly, Greece is the birthplace of contemporary Mediterranean cuisine. While Greece's gifts to Western culture may need no testimony, many are unfamiliar with the hearty, flavorful dishes originating in the Isles # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest civilizations, the legacy of which can still be seen in its numerous monuments throughout the country # Greece is the birthplace of western civilization, the place that launched our history, art and philosophy # Greece, of course, is known not only as the birthplace of history and philosophy, but of classic art. # Greece is the birthplace of western wine culture, spreading their appreciation and expertise throughout the Mediterranean over 4,000 years ago # Greece is the birthplace of western art, philosophy and drama. It is the cornerstone of civilisation and wherever you travel there, you will find evidence of a glorious past. Greece offers travellers a unique blend of beautiful Mediterranean landscape, overwhelming history and great hospitality. # Greece (Hellas) is the birthplace of Democracy and modern conventions. Thousands of years ago, Greece had already gained stature as a democracy nation. Hellas is also the birthplace of the Philosophy, Tragedy, Mathematics, Physics and Biology as well as the Olympic Games. A nation with more than three thousand years history! The Classic Years, the Alexandrine and the Roman Period are in perfect harmony with the Greek-Orthodox Spirit of the Byzantine Times as well as with the Neo-Hellenic (i.e.new-Greek) Culture. Greece is the birthplace of Homeros, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eukleides, Socratis, Plato, Pericles, Sofocles, Democritos, Aristotle and Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the Byzantine Empire was that rescued, developed and spread the Hellenic Civilisation to the other European and Asian Nations. # Greek philosophers and political leaders -- Cleisthenes and Pericles and their successors -- had great influence upon America's Founding Fathers in their creation of these United States. We, as a nation, owe a great debt to Greece. Greece is the birthplace of democracy, as we know it. Thomas Jefferson said, "To the ancient Greeks, we are all indebted for the light which led ourselves (American colonists) out of Gothic darkness." # Greece is the birthplace of democracy. The land that has enriched Western civilization with its history, philosophy and many other academic influences. Geometry, architecture, drama, philanthropy, and music have traveled globally from ancient Greece and have become the foundations of worldly theories, concepts and ideas. Furthermore, the Greek language has enriched other languages with many words. The unique and most delicious Greek cuisine, consists of many specialties, all cooked with care, mastery, love and excellence. The Greek cooking is distinguished with olive oil, herbs, and spices like basil, oregano, daphne, parsley; whilst the original dishes of mousaka, souvlaki and horiatiki salata (to mention a few) decorate each table deliciously. Lastly, let us not forget one of the most important international events which unite each nation in brotherhood, the Olympic Games, born in Greece, 776 B.C. in the spirit of world peace. Each traveler cannot resist the charm of this mystical land. # Greece is the birthplace of the Olympic Games, home of Ulysses, the Argonauts, and hallowed ground to the ancient Olympian gods. Today, a modern infrastructure, new airports, and world-connected communications provide the highest standards of service, both above and below water. A warm, dry climate supports thousands of uninhabited islands surrounded by the cleanest seas in all Europe. People are friendly, traditional, educated, and hospitable. Expect delicious local food, spirited entertainment, and unparalleled sightseeing. # Greece is the birthplace of democracy, theatre, philosophy and sport. # As ancient Greece is the birthplace of democracy, and, indeed the very underpinnings of the American way of life, so too was the American revolution the model for the modern Greek independence movement that began 168 years ago. In fact, Greeks used the United States Declaration of Independence as the archetype for their own declaration. Many American volunteers sailed to Greece to participate in Greece's war for independence. # As Will Durant wrote: Greek civilization is alive * * * it moves in every breath of mind we breath * * * so much of it remains that none of us in one lifetime could absorb it all. Greece is the bright morning star of that Western civilization which is our nourishment and life. Indeed, Percy Bysshe Shelly wrote: We are all Greeks! Our laws, our literature, our religion, our art, have their roots in Greece. Herro hera elefteria! Long live freedom! # Greece is the birthplace of athletics # Greece is the birthplace of philosophy # 4,000 years of history and tradition is revealed in front of your eyes, from Mycenae to Olympia, from the incomparable sculptures of the Golden Age (Acropolis, Delphi) to the Byzantine cultural heritage (Mystras, Meteora). Greece is the birthplace of democracy. It is hard to imagine what civilised life would be like today without the influence of ancient Greece. # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest and most glorious civilizations # Ancient Greece is the birthplace of the earliest written western theories about physiology (500-300BC). Hippocrates (circa 460-377BC) makes no mention of the spirit. Plato (circa 428-347BC) proposed that mind and body were separate entities # Greece is the birthplace of the greatest philosophers (Socratis, Thales, Plato, Aristotle), the author of the first great European literary work, Homer, the great tragedy writers (Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus), the father of medicine Hippocrates and so many others! # As scholars have noted, Greece is the birthplace of the art of rhetoric, grammar, and logic. While "many other ancient civilizations produced literature, only the Greeks produced analytic, expository treatises that attempted to discover the actual bases of human communication" (Murphy & Katula, A Synoptic History of Classical Rhetoric, 1994, p. x). # ancient Greece is the birthplace Western philosophy & science, including astronomy. Yes, I know the Egyptians were astronomers too, but that was mainly in Ptolemeic Egypt, which for all intents and purposes was essentially Greece. Sorry to be so droll, but I answer these questions about ten times a week. # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization and modern thought. Greece is the home of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, and of the Olympic Games # Greece is the birthplace of mathematics # GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF DEMOCRACY, THE CREATOR OF SCIENCE AND ART, THE HOME OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND THE BEST PART OF EUROPE. .....I think that the only thing can anyone say is ...WOW! So proud to be Hellenas (Greek). PS. All the above were the result of a search in google with the words: ''greece is the birthplace''.

183 boo

184 thessalonici voice is right, we will send you an email soon file! Fuck you germanos, albanee albaaneee then tha gineis ellinnass pote pote! We are tired of you god damn xenovlakes! You say greece and greeks are bad, but have you seen the turks!! We are GODS compared to them! AND compared to you! You are a disgrace to HUMANITY! How dare you say such things about greeks! We INVENTED HUMANITY, and civilization! NOW who is stupid? You wanna join us? FC CREW invites you! Here is our email: lexander812@hotmail.com ///FC Crew2005 FREE CYPRUS CREW AND MAKEDONIA IS GREEk SEE you guys in denmark AAH!

185 btw FYROM doesnt excist it's skopje. Makedonia is greek

186 Screw you greeks. For whatever reason you think REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA is greek you must be in deep sheet. Take Alexander with you and all his gay acts, we don't need him. We have pride to admit that we have albanians in our country and were proud of that. But you fools deny everything. Maybe one day you will ignore yourselves as well, just to fulfill your twised ideas. So stop pretend being nice too all the world becouse someone will kick your asses real hard. And believe me, that day is not far away.

187 Oh, yes. I almost forgot this. About that "birthplace" thing. Everything alive dies. Please take care of that "birthplace", becouse it may become a graveyard/

188 Oh, yes. I almost forgot this. About that "birthplace" thing. Everything alive dies. Please take care of that "birthplace", becouse it may become a graveyard!!!!

189 HEY U FUCKIN SLAVONIANS BULGS FROM FREAKY SKOPJE I HAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOU!U R NOT MACEDONIANS YOU ARE EX FUCKIN COMNUNISTS A MONGREL NATION WHO CAME WITH YOUR BROTHERS BULGARIANS FROM VOLGA RIVER!YOU ARE TYPICAL MONGOLOIDS AND NOT EUROPEANS!WHEN I C YOUR FUCKIN SHITLAND I C TO MANY POOR MISERABLE CHIEP UGLY FACES!YOU CALL YOUR SELFS AS MACEDONIANS AND U R SHORT BLACK HEADS AND U DONT HAVE TYPICAL GREEK FACES!ITS A SHAME FOR THIS PROUD GREEK DORIAN TRIBE LIKE THE MACEDONIANS WHEN A MONGREL NATION LIKE YOURS ARE TRYING TO STEAL THE GREEK HISTORY AND THE GLORY OF MACEDONIANS!THE CORECT IS ALEKSANDROS AND NOT ALEKSANDAR MAKEDONIA AND NOT MAKEDONIJA MAKEDONAS AND NOT MAKEDONSKA THESSALONIKI AND NOT SOLUN MONASTIRI AND NOT BITOLIJA!UNDERSTAND YOU SISSYS?MACEDONIA WERE HELLENIC 4000 YEARS AGO!GO TO HELL ALL OF U 1,3 MILLION BASTARDS!BY THE WAY U R BULGARIA AND VARDARSKA BADOVINA BAN IS MONGOLOID WORD!

190 Dear Ljupco (is that a macedonian name?? LoL.....AAhh yes! Ljupco was the name of Alexander's cousin...LOL..LOL..)GET SERIOUS GUYS!!! well, yes... greece is the birthplace for so many values, things and important persons. Your answer shows that you have nothing to say mister. greek spirit

191 Listen there are many great nations and greece is one of them they are respectable people and do not fuck their little sisters like the dirty shit albanians and arnt full of child fuckers like the rest of the world when u idiots were swinging from trees fucking ur mothers greeks were writing phiolsophy and inventing democracy and no albanian has the right to degrade any nation they are the worst kind of shit possible no1 in this known earth would trust an albanian we live in england but are not illegal immigrants when was the last time u saw a legal alabanian in uk (oh yeh i bet u any money any albanian in uk works 4 a greek) and has for the turks they are amongst the dirtiest gypsys muslim uncle fuckers in the world AND WHY DO PPL KEEP CALLIN GREEKS GYPSYS DO U SEE THEM SPREAD ACROSS THE EARTH IN EVRY COUNTRY EXCEPT THEIR OWN?? like albanians no wonder they left albania i fuckin wud aswell evry albanian i speak 2 in england either pretends 2 be greek or italian what does that prove it proves that we greeks and italians are the best thing that happend 2 albania and the rest of them no religion goat fuckin countries and by the way i understand why some ppl dnt like greeks becuz of the new generation of yung greeks who are proper pricks but take the time 2 go to greece and see the real greeks te old generation

192 FREE OUR HELLENIC NOTHERN EPIRUS!250000 GREEKS WITH NO RIGHTS! VIVA NAPOLEON ZERVAS THE CHAM KILLER! FREE EPIRUS HEIL INDIPEND EPIRUS!EPIRUS IN GREECE ORTHODOX BELLS IN NOTHERN EPIRUS! THE GREEK CROSS AGAIN IN NOTHERN EPIRUS! WE DONT FORGET OUR NOTHERN EPIRUS!

193 I'VE LIVED IN GREECE FOR 20 YEARS, IN GREECE THERE ARE OVER 1 MILLION ALBANIANS, HOW COME I'VE NEVER MEAT A SMART ONE? I HAVE MEET SOME SMART ONES BUT IT WAS OUTSIDE GREECE... DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTE!

194 I'VE LIVED IN GREECE FOR 20 YEARS, IN GREECE THERE ARE OVER 1 MILLION ALBANIANS, HOW COME I'VE NEVER MEAT A SMART ONE? ..I HAVE MEET SOME SMART ONES BUT IT WAS OUTSIDE GREECE.. 2. I AM MAKEDONIAN, BORN IN MAKEDONIA, SKOPJE IS ANOTHER THING, THINGY'S.. THE "COUNTRY" MAKEDONIA WAS FORM IN THE 30'S BY THE YOGUSLAVIAN LEADERS, WHO WANTED TO TAKE THE GREEK MAKEDONIA. THE ANCIENT MAKEDONIAN SPOOK GREEK- WERE GREEKS- ACTED GREEK.

195 Excuse me... I live in Macedonia but I am not Slav but Greek. Some Slavs are saying that they are Macedonians. Are we relatives???? I don't think so... Some slavs only trying to steal greak history.

196 Excuse me... I live in Macedonia but I am not Slav but Greek. Some Slavs are saying that they are Macedonians. Are we relatives???? I don't think so... Some slavs only trying to steal greek history.

197 You are all ridiculous when fighting about absolutely nothing. All your countries are pretty crappy today but will hopefully rise from poverty one day. Stop fighting and help each other instead.

198 Fuck you, idiot Jonas!

199 ALBANIAN AND AMERICAN ARE BROTHERS. FUCK WITH THE GREECE YOU MOTHERFUCKER GAY NATION AND FUCK WITH THE SLAVS BURNING IN HELL

200 hey joker: till today in hell is the albanians with muslims hehehe, i can't forget how the 200 mujahedin fighter albans and fanatic muslim/islamic fighters run into lake to save them selfs from 15 tigers and super tigers :-p the greek - serbian self army :-D as you see, our 15 Christian fighters send to hell 200 poor poor muslim-albans. :-) We proof our greek spirit... and we can proof it again in the future into another war.

201 thesaloniki voice you son of bitch go to hell and burn the greeks were fucked by the turks hahahahahahahahah.

202 FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! 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203 Greeks and brothers of war( serbians, croats, russians) when euro goes into full affect we will rise and not only spill the blood of turks and albanians but also any anglo saxon scum that has made themselves comfortable on our scared soil, The turks and albanians dont know that Iraq is waiting to rape there and kids, and the Kurds want there heads aswell, so, they too will join in the massacre against them,The Turks spend all there money on military for what? there end is written, only America and NATO stands in the way, no peace for them brothers for they gave our ancestors no peace...and when the day comes to step all over em, lets all rise and ride to glory, cause harmony will return!Love you all. P.S My best friend is Turksih , he knows wher i stand, and we respect eachother because our countries have fought well.

1 I too voted today and saw an overwhelming majority of the people in line being of the "blue-hair" variety. I though live in a state where Democrats do not win elections for President unless your name is Lyndon B. Johnson.

2 Kudos to you for doing your civic duty. I'll be doing the same this weekend. GO ASTROS!

3 I saw your post Chad, it felt pretty weird voting so early--but I figure I better do it now before I got scared and voted Nader. Vulure--just remember that if 'Kang' is an option to pull that lever. I take that back--Sideshow Bob is also ok.

1 Like um, what did you get Mrs. S. for her BD that she agreed to go along with you to the movie? hehe,

1 Didn't the Jews kick there sorry asses several times before?

1 lol. also, emigre is a girl.

2 oops

3 where is your update about Hassan.... patiently waiting!

1 the irony is that the average diehard dem is cognitavely unable to see that his party leadership is unable to win a fair election, and will lie cheat steal, and work towards massive voter fraud all the while claiming the same of the rebublicans. I repeat if the dems actually played fair in the ballot box they would lose big.

2 It going to be a great pleasure to watch these assholes burn in. I can't wait until Kerry is giving his concession speech at about 4 hours before the polls close in the MOUNTAIN time zone. That is going to be so cool. Just to watch it is gonna give me wood.

1 The reviewer from MCNBC seemed shocked that it took digs at the left! And said it wasn't that funny because it was too balanced-ie, it wasn't a Bush bash.

2 Saw it this afternoon and am already singing Team America theme while walking the streets of Toronto!

3 Definitely worth seeing. But using it as a teaching aid is sure to attract litigation from thin-skinned, PC-ified wretches. Lawyer up before bringing it into the classroom. And I do agree that there is more foreign policy reality in that film than in most courses ostensibly teaching the subject. More truth than in most newspapers, too.

4 John: yeah, I was being a bit over the top in saying that I'd show it in the classroom, but what professors like Rusty and I are constantly fighting are our liberal colleagues who think in terms of liberal "nuance." What this movie says is that there are three types of people/nations, and our type is not perfect but it is superior.

5 WOW!!! Hurrah!!! Where were you Guys when I went to school?

6 greyrooster: We've been hiding out in a secret undisclosed University in Southern California, eating ramen and 49 cent BK burgers, hoping that some day rational people could one day take over our higher education system.

7 Leopold Stotch: Got a kick out of your post. I'm almost 63 and grew up in northern California. Brought back memories. Yes, I went to that school across the bay in the early sixties. Talk about hiding out. I shaved, I bathed, wore clean clothes, had short hair, played football and did'nt think Fidel Castro was the robin hood of the carribean. Nothing rational then. Hard to study engineering when the professor was out leading a pro Castro rally. What made it bad was the football coaches made us go beat them up. Had to hide my face like a terrorist to keep from flunking out of Engeering school. They're now serious about football. I wonder if they're as serious about education? I guess anything can change.

8 I was at a Jesuit university in DC in the late 60s. I got extremely ass-chapped by the way students got jerked around by faculty. Half the faculty would flunk you if you attended a particular demonstration; the other half would flunk you if you didn't. It was there, though, that I became acutely aware of the potential for fascism from the left, a concept that truly shocked me though its mere existence. Who'da thunk?

9 Prof Chaos, You are absolutely right about the foreign policy relevancy. I'm not sure I've heard it explained any better. And I'm being quite serious about it. Saddly, I cannot recommend this movie to anyone I know because most of us are... hmm, how do I say it? I certainly could have done without the "prove your loyalty to the team" scene. Yet, the film had one of the best messages I've ever seen in a film. Seems Parker and Stone get it.

10 Can anyone let me know if there's any sexual content in the movie? I want to bring my kids to see it, if there's any sex in it, I'll pass. Of course, that won't stop me from seeing the movie myself..hehehe. thanks.

11 Don't take your kids anywhere near this movie.

12 I second the last comment. This is not even remotely appropriate for children.

13 Oh brother, that bad, huh? In what way? Worse than South Park parodies?

14 Let's just say they use the word C**K about 146 times in this movie.

15 This is one of the funniest movies I've seen in a _very_ long time. Parker and Stone once again manage to wrap some rather insightful political and social commentary in a visual onslaught of thair own unique brand of ridiculous, irreverent, and downright hilarious satire. In much the same way as "Southpark: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut", this movie is filled with the sort of stuff that has you dropping your jaw on the floor in utter shock, then laughing yourself to tears. Damn funny if approached with an open mind, but like the posters above, I could never in good conscience allow a child to see it.

1 Whew. Good job Rusty.

2 Ditto. Can you email it to the White House?

3 Rusty: Well, I'll tell you what bothers me... but you won't like it. What sort of Presidency is this, that in the midst of one of the most complex foreign policy implementations in the history of the planet this president can't even muster enough coherence to defend himself from a bald-faced lie, in spite of the fact that it's easily defended? It's as though your team has loaded the bases, and rattled the pitcher, and the batter that's at the plate can't even manage to get a walk. WHAT THE FREAKIN' HELL IS THE MATTER WITH THIS GUY! Yeah, I know Kerry is worse... but I am not amused. One false step and we could be hip deep in Armageddon... and it's really hard to convince myself that I'm supporting someone who is even marginally competent. Sorry, just had to get it out of my system.

4 From Factcheck.org (2nd Debate) Kerry misled when he claimed the economy has lost 1.6 million jobs under Bush. It is true that figures released earlier in the day show the economy is still down by 1.6 million private sector jobs since Bush took office, but the drop in total payroll employment -- including teachers, firemen, policemen and other federal, state and local government employees -- is down by much less than that -- 821,000. Furthermore, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced, with the release of the latest figures, that its yearly "benchmark" revision would add an estimated 236,000 payroll jobs to the total when made final next February. That means the best current estimate is that 585,000 jobs have been lost under Bush, about one-third of the number Kerry stated. Kerry may turn out to be correct when he said Bush would be "the first president in 72 years to lose jobs." Payroll employment has been growing at roughly 100,000 jobs per month for the past four months, and there are only four months to go -- October, November, December and January -- until the end of Bush's term in January, 2005. (The number that will actually go into the economic history books won't be known until February 2006, when the BLS publishes its final benchmark revisions of 2004 data.)

5 You know what they forget the most when it comes to the economy and the job market? Florida and the hurricanes - making a major dent in not only the govt numbers but that states' numbers. We've had some major catastrophe's lately and no one takes them into account - it's also going to take a lot of time to fix that just one state never mind the other states that were involved in the destruction of the storms. Just adding my 2 cents. ~C

6 Here is another thought to chew on...Kerry sometimes cites his role in balancing the budget under Clinton, and complains that Bush took a huge budget surplus and turned it into deficits with know end in sight...but government surplus budgets take money away from the engine that drives the economy - business and consumer spending and investment. Why hasn't anyone suggested that Kerry and Clinton, with their tax increases, actually caused the recession that Bush inherited? I understand the need for a balanced budget. But it occurs to me that we may have gotten there too fast, and should have been cutting taxes along the way to keep the economy's fuel tank full.

7 Excellent post Rusty. You the man. Prof. Peter Von Nostrand, If Fact check is correct the total loss at the end of bush's FIRST term would be projected as 185,000 lost. Maybe Kerry's decimal misplacement(1.6 million)was just one of those exaggerations? Rusty, Which MSM outlet would you suggest report this first? CBS and the ever unbiased Dan Rather? ABC and their Political Director, Mark Halperin's Equally Accountable memo? Or NBC and thier invaluable post debate commentary by such great political minds as Hall and Oates and Triumph the Insult Comic Dog?

8 Prof. VN, Did you even read my entire essay? Did you check out the numbers? Bush 41, Reagan (1st term), Carter, Ford, Nixon, and Eisenhower all LOST jobs in their Presidencies. Under no circumstances could Kerry's repeated statements on the subject be true. NONE. Further, since the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not even start compiling data until 1946, how on earth does Kerry get that 72 year figure? This was not a mistatement, since he has been saying it over and over again for months--also on his official campaign website. THIS IS A LIE. If FactCheck.org hasn't picked up on this then that is the whole point--no one has!!! Factcheck.org is just wrong in that last statement. Demos, Yeah, I agree. Mr. K, Maybe, but then again it seems that no matter what a President does, at some point a recession will hit. Just thank goodness that the last recession was mild compared to pretty much all other recent recessions. Oh, wait, something else the MSM didn't want to talk about. Everyone else, Thanks for compliments and input.

9 Running the country, fighting a war and preparing for debates with Kerry who has nothing to do but prepare for debates. I can understand why President Bush may not be 100% prepared to have debate after debate. Who really cares about who is the best public speaker? That's not why I'm voting for Bush.

10 Are the Clinton job creation statistics from before or after the substantial official downward adjustment that Steve Antler (Econopundit) analyzed some time ago?

11 Dave, not sure, however they are all seasonally adjusted unemployment figures. Greyrooster, Just to reemphasize, Kerry has repeated the same thing over and over so it wasn't a slip of the tongue. Jeremy, My point exactly.

12 It would be nice to see one of the candidates refrain from lying in their respective campaigns. Unfortunately, this will never happen.

13 Rusty, I will consider your point; however I would have appreciated if you had given us a better link to exactly which labor statistics you used (can you provide that?). With allegiance to the "null hypothesis" post you did some time ago regarding Rathergate and changing your own mind about that, I will withhold judgment until I can further verify what you're claiming. It seems a bit fishy that I can find nobody else making your point, though I must confess that when Kerry initially made this claim it seemed a bit extreme (in support of a legitimate point about the Bush economy). VN out.

14 I collected the data from the BLS. I ran the numbers myself. Didn't even have to use SPSS. Excel worked fine. Sorry if I didn't footnote according to APSR specifications.

15 By the way Rusty, if you are correct, I found it kinda funny that almost all of the "jobs lost" eras were during Republican administrations.

16 Is it just me, or is all Kerry's doing is saying how bad Bush was, instead of saying exactly how he would do things? Most of his campaigns are just bashing Bush, saying what a screw up he's been. Personally, I don't think the economy is in such bad shape. There are jobs, if you want one. I remember the big recession of the 70s and the oil embargo and the price of gasoline! To me, that was WORSE!

17 Laura, I think it's just you, considering Kerry has been 1)espousing his track record in the Senate (or lack thereof, depending on what side of the fence you're looking from), 2)defending his wartime service record, 3)discussing his own policies should he win the presidency, and 4)talking about Edwards' positive points. In addition to this, he is attacking Bush. So, no, he's not just attacking Bush. And Bush isn't spending his whole campaign attacking Kerry, either.

18 The economy is in good shape, Laura. I quit my job last year before Christmas, started my own business. I have more work than I can get done, and have had some trouble finding GOOD help. You don't hear too much about the record growth in construction, especially residential construction. And the record home ownership. Good economic news is suppressed in the media. And as Rusty has aptly pointed out, they conveniently forget to correct Herman Munster when he spouts outright lies about unemployement statistics. But oh, the fact that Cheyney bumbed into "Ambulance" Edwards once in the bathroom on capitol hill, and forgot about it at the debate, that makes the front page.

19 I knew you would, Prof. VN, then again that is an artifact of the baseline measuring time (ie, 4 year intervals, Jan-Jan). Had I measured GDP growth, or average unemployment numbers, or whatever the results would have been different.

20 Bush is easy prey for Kerry! I don't trust anyone with the initials "JK", Catholic and from Boston to boot...reminscent of 1960s JFK!!!!! Not that I'm against anyone being Catholic, I am myself, it's just that it smacks of another Camelot. Nah, it ain't me, everyone's saying that all Kerry's doing is saying what a lousy job Bush has done, not much of what he'd do. All the talk shows are talking about it, most callers call in and say the same thing. Of course, the worst thing that's going to hurt Bush the most is that all the Democrats who favor Kerry are using the iraq invasion as campaign ploy: "gee, look what Bush did"..blah, blah. We'll see.

21 An important note must be remembered concerning the job numbers as well as the overall election. A challenger must present life as unbearable under the incumbent in order to win. It his job to tear down the job market, healthcare industry, etc. A challenger must present life as grand in order to be re-elected. Senator Kerry is doing nothing more than just following election year protocal, though I find his remarks on the war "without allies" to be the most despicable act a candidate can throw.

22 Please explain, Chad? Without allies? What exactly does Kerry mean by that? Thanks.

23 I don't mean to go Bill Lumberg on you on a Friday, but at this point I remain unconvinced your numbers aren't actually representative of gross job losses rather than net losses. I am unable to find the table/source for your numbers.

24 LAURA: You hit the nail on the head. My wife, myself and daughters noticed the same thing during the debate. We all agreed that Kerry did nothing except find fault. As I learned while working for the Government, if you don't do anything you will not make a mistake. If you do, you're sticking your neck out someone who wishes to advance himself at your expense. After the fact, there's always a better way. Hindsight is 20/20. After a while my department got little done but CYA. Another thing. Did anyone notice that Kerry brought up Cheney's lbut not Barney Frank. Cheap shot at best. Kerry sucks!

25 Left out Daughter after Cheney in last post. Someday I'll learn to use the preview.

26 The economy is so bad that I can't get a new aluminum boat built for at least 6 months. He's booked solid. I'm trying to get several hundred large pines removed from one of my pastures. I just made a deal after 18 months of trying. Guess what? Had to give the trees away to get someone to come and take them. Five years ago they were worth $40-$50 each. Trying to get a plumber for my daughter's new house and he tells me (maybe in a couple months). Eddie my neighbor owns a cabinet shop says it will be 3 months before he can get to the cabinets. And he's my friend. Just where is this horrible economy? Hey everyone!! I live in rural south Mississippi. This is supposed to be the end to the line. Everyone in my neighborhood has a $30,000 plus pickup pulling his boat. And if any of you cry baby liberals tell me to go look at the getto, I'll tell you to go look at the garden district and all the new casinos being built. Poor economy my butt. Poor if you're too lazy to go get some of this great American life. I know at least 6 immigrants who are now millionaires. Even dingbats like Kerry and Edwards made millions. Well, anyway Edwards did. I understand Kerry inherited his. Still not bad for someone whose lived off the taxpayers all his life. By the way Kerry's wife payed 12% tax on her millions earned this year. That's a whole lot less than the 33% this poor republican is going to pay. Kerry's a complete fraud.

27 This looks great - can you help me find the raw data on the BLS site? I'm having trouble navigating it. Thanks, J

28 J's point needs to be addressed. Aside from that, my update (see trackback) says pretty much all that needs to be said about this with regard to Kerry's "worst lie." God I love this stuff.

29 Great post. I found it amusing that there were 7 4-year intervals with job growth and 7 with job loss. I would have predicted more growths than losses simply because the total workplace force increases over time. I have just a few comments about your graph: Although it won't change the number of +jobs/-jobs bars, it would be useful to normalize the numbers by the total available work force. I would suggest multiplying by: 2004_work_force/work_force_of_year. ... just like normalizing e.g., crude oil prices to "2004 dollars". As you are plotting the numbers, you are still stacking the numbers against Bush, and he ends up with the third worst performance in 14 4-year periods (which is not honest, when you include the effects of an increased workplace force). Secondly, your ordinate label really shojuld be "net payroll jobs" not "net jobs". In total jobs, the net change was something like a 2,000,000 jobs increase (not decrease for W. I think this includes government jobs & private consultants and the like. Another comment, is that you could, if you really like playing with number, plot the job change in four-year interval, with one year steps. This would probably make it clear that market forces outside of the president's power drive jobs growth and loss. For instance Al Gore's invention of the internet is probably somewhat responsible for the roughly 15,000 jobs exported per year (according the the Labor Dept.). This doesn't include the jobs lost through new hires & contracts going over seas, which I would guess is a much higher number. Nor does it include the number of jobs created in the US by foreign investment (which I believe is even higher).

30 Yeah, and what does Cheney's daughter being gay have to do with anything? Why was THAT brought out??!! You know poor Bush is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't! Does anyone really think there WASN'T any WMD in Iraq? Saddam's a sadistic dictator but I gotta give him credit...he hid them well! Brit's especially are having a nice "go" of it at Bush's expense! I just read in my local papers this a.m. that most of the troops, while they may not like being in Iraq actually SUPPORT Bush with his decision on invading it. I see we're bombing the hell out of insurgents' hide outs...we'll get that Zarqawi yet! As far as job prospects go, I've got two interviews lined up, and that's just for part time work! My son, who will be graduating college this spring, has 5 interviews lined up all over the US, and they are going to pay for him to fly to each interview, the companies are. People who hate Bush will think of anything to slam him. I say go to hell.

31 Interesting. Which BLS series did you use? Total nonfarm?

32 I just went over to the Norstram guy's log...can anyone tell me what happened to the brain of a liberal? How does this guy, who calls himself a professor, post such a flagrant self-contradictory statement on his weblog? Is he really a professor? Where? I want to make sure I don't send one of my kids to a college where someone with shit for brains can themselves a professor. Maybe he just has that liberal brain disease, where Bush "lies" about WMD's and the 8 prior years of UN sanctions and Bill Clinton speeches does not register. When Clinton delivered a speech on Iraq's WMD's, it was the truth. When Kerry repeatedly pukes out lies about employment stats, its not "Kerry's lie" because the MSM and a bunch of dumbass economists never contradicted the same statements before. I am starting to think there should be an intelligence test required before people are allowed to vote. Complete fucking idiots should not be allowed to vote. Sorry...the there wouldn't be any support for John Kerry, would there?

33 "Always like to keep my public riveted!" Happy to see that Mr. K wants to take my vote away. He'd fit in well at the Florida Secretary of State's office. By the way Mr. K, you are making the huge assumption that I supported everything Bill Clinton said or did with regards to Iraq. I didnÂ’t. However, I do believe that this president has taken things to quite an extreme. As far as deception is concerned there is plenty of evidence that the Bush administration has been extreme on this count, too. I'd post a link but I know you wouldn't read it.

34 Peter: Post the damn proof of Kerry's statement on employment, I'll read it. I made no assumptions about your beliefs about Bill Clinton, or the UN. Let me spell it out for you: you claim it is not "Kerry's lie, because others, like the MSM and a bunch of dumbass economists, never questioned it. Well, France, Germany, Russia, the UN, and the blowjob president all claimed Saddam had WMD's. By your line of reasoning, then, WMD's are not Bush's lie? What are you a professor of, Toromerdology? Optirectalology? Where do you teach, at the South Hoboken Institute of Technology?

35 I guess I'm done with this guy. Out.

36 Posted on your weblog "professor".

37 As someone whose livelihood has never, in my entire 53 years, come from a "payroll" job (my father was self-employed; I've worked for companies below the BLS radar) I consider the entire discussion trivial. Fact - more people in this country have incomes than ever before and that is all that matters.

38 And yet the basic definition of an “employed” person is someone who works at least one hour a week. Could it be that Bush and Kerry are both blowing smoke? The question I would ask is “how” are the job numbers actually created, and if we are using the criteria that a person is employed because they worked one hour last week; then I think the whole jobs created, jobs lost argument is a waste of time.

39 I know I mentioned the 185,000 total for lost jobs if we continue on the 100,000 net gained per month. I completely overlooked the seasonal job growth that will be taking place soon. I would like to retract my statement about there being ANY job loss under Bush's watch. When these next two seasons are averaged in (Oct, Nov, Dec and Jan, Feb, Mar) Bush will have positive numbers. Rusty, I'm not sure how these numbers will tie in with yours but you may want to calculate the four remaining months in based on an average from the previous three years in job gains for the season.

40 Rusty, you lose all credibility when you bring up misleading statistics in a futile attempt to defend Bush. Facts are stubborn things Rusty and your ignoring them will not make them go away. Please take a moment and look at factcheck.com for the truth about Bush being the first president since Hoover to lose jobs during his term of office. Then, with a contrite heart, write a correction. It is the only way to restore your credibility.

41 Ken: I think Shackleford can defend himself, but occasionally Factcheck blows one. Here it appears you have. I do not quite read Factcheck as supporting the claim here: http://www.factcheck.org/article114.html and they don't cite raw data, they cite an article.

42 The sitting president is a turd when it comes to job creation. The best a turd can do is make a stink, that's it. Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, etc. have no control over hiring practices of companies. Period. Fooling yourself into thinking the POTUS controls such is lunacy. All the president does is step in the limelight and either take credit or take it where the sun don't shine. The economy is determined by more things than tax cuts and interest rate changes. I worked my ass off in the late 90's on this neat Interweb thingy. Seems I was onto something and am STILL working with it, even after the .COM busts. Clinton never called me to tell me about job opportunities, and I still made a killing despite the heavy taxation. I just wish everyone would get off the President Controls Everything gig and realize that the market goes up and down and the Fed's job is to do its best prevent spiriling deflation or too much inflation and the president sits in a nice office and takes what credit he wants.

43 RS, Judging by your comment at my site I think you missed the point of my post. I'd actually appreciate your thoughts on the matter. VN

44 I knew Kerry's 72 year jobs blather was false the second he said it. Don't people remember anything? How could we go from single digit unemployment under Johnson to double digit unemployment under Carter without some significant job losses? Turns out Nixon, Ford and Carter all presided over significant job losses. Anyone surprised? Yours, Wince

45 This is scary. I just realized that much of the world considers a Bush defeat a defeat for America and it's war on Islamic terror. We had damn well re-elect Bush even if we don't like him. If Kerry's elected that will encourage the terrorists and their supportors. The attacks will get worse. Oh, shit!! There's no choice.

46 What about the number of jobs that are created "off the books" by the illegal aliens that flood the country every day? J. Kerry claimed that 4000 a day move into the United States, and they come here for economic advantage. So if only half are working, that still amounts to about 3 million additional jobs over a four year period.

47 Rooster: It has been said that Zarqawi planned his attacks after the Iraq invasion to make Bush look bad. These beheadings and killings have been going on for some time now. The terrorists despise Bush and don't want him reelected. Wonder why they even give a shit though? What would Kerry do that the terrorists want him instead? Maybe because he's a chicken shit who would give in to them?

48 Correction: Zarqawi arranged for the videotapings of the recent beheadings to make it look like Bush's fault for invading Iraq. However, the slaughter's been going on way before we got there.

49 Robert Dible: Good point. I was doing a job in California one time. Sometimes when bored we would go out into the field and yell IMMIGRACION!! 80% of our laborers would suddenly disappear.

50 Rooster: LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

51 http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/census_2000/002966.html Census Bureau Releases Information on Home Workers Nearly 4.2 million people worked at home in 2000, according to Census 2000 tabulations, up from 3.4 million in 1990, the Census Bureau reported today. This 23 percent increase in home-based workers age 16 and older was double the growth in the overall work force during the decade. The data released today include information on home-based workers by age, sex, educational attainment, race and Hispanic origin, industry, occupation, disability status and earnings at the national and state levels. More recent estimates from the American Community Survey (ACS) show 4.5 million people worked at home in 2003. The Census 2000 estimates represent people who reported that they usually worked at home. “Usually” was defined to mean most days during the week. People who worked at home part of the week, but elsewhere more days than at home, were not counted as at-home workers. Thus, the census estimates may be lower than other estimates that count at-home workers differently. The data contained in the tables are based on responses from a sample of households who received the census long form. Nationally, about 1-in-6 households were included in the Census 2000 sample. The data are subject to sampling and nonsampling errors. The Census Bureau cautions against confusing the census estimates with estimates from the ACS. Estimates may differ because of different questions, survey concepts, data processing and estimation methods. For further information, see for Census 2000 sample data and for ACS data. More comments: Although the increase in home workers does not necessarily mean more jobs in all cases, included in the increase are jobs that may not be counted in the employment reports, as people leave companies and work at home. Looking at the chart you made of Net jobs created in Presidential Terms, it seems to show trends that although Democratic Administrations appear to create jobs, they also create the conditions for job losses. A good term for this that I rarely see used (whether on the web or in the MSM) and that you have well illustrated, is the "lag-time effect" (a word that should be used far more often. This is the amount of time it takes from the decision to make an economic policy change until the impact can be measured. Per a professor at a university in Illinois who specializes in studying the lag-time effect the time frame is 6-18 months or more. I believe the lag-time effect is quite important in explaining any claims about the effects an administration has on the economy. It can also explain that while job growth appears to be higher in Democrat administrations, their policies are conducive to subsequent job loss because they pass on the recessionary effects of higher taxes, increased federal benefit spending, etc., to the succeeding administration.

52 Nice acticle.Try my site anabolic steroids OR anabolic steroids online online anabolic steroids Direct - http://anabolic-steroids.redi.tk Thanks

53 yes regan,dis is horrible dey should respect each other,i dnt think they got any brains,dey need to screw it back together.... any way wot u doin man lolz.

1 Take her to see Team America: World Police.

2 she still has a fine can Pics.

3 happy birthday mrs S.

4 heheheh! You wouldn't believe how many rednecks here in TX have never hoyd of that woyd! Haven't heard that since Archie Bunker said it once! Happy BD, Mrs. S.!

5 Happy birhday Mrs, Rusty

6 Ayup, Happy Birthday to Mrs Rusty; hope you showed her what you wrote - that's a hell of a compliment any woman of any age likes to hear. ~C

7 Happy Birthday She-Jawa. Keep him away from the computer.

8 I'm telling you, Jan 15th must be a chilly day each year. I know more people with my birthday, now to include your wife. Heck there's 3 people I work with have Oct 15th as their birthdate, and 2 others whose spouses have it.

1 Rusty.....why do you continue to post the images from the videos. This is beyond the macacbre and does nothing to enhance one's understanding of the terrorists brutality. Give it a break man or "enough already" as your compatriots say.

2 You and I have seen their brutality. Many others have not. Many also believe that they understand their brutality, but an intellectual understanding is not enough. I think one also needs an emotional understanding. The terrorists use this as propaganda, so do I. But the same images given different contexts is important. The context I hope I provide is useful in the GWOT.

3 The truth hurts..........

4 All of these people are someone's son. Perhaps someone's father, someone's brother. Someone's best friend. Perhaps that is reason to stop posting these images but I think that that is a stronger reason for publishing these images. Remember they are snuffing lives out here as though they were candles. THIS is what they are capable of. And make no mistake about it. YOU could be in line for this kind of treatment if they get their own way (a Worldwide Islamic State). I say keep posting Rusty. If people want to read about other matters and see different things, well, the Internet is a big place.

5 Good thing those were an 'Iraqi militant group' and not TERRORISTS . 'Cause terrorists would be bad, right? Terrorists might cut someone's head off.

6 Like I ve mentioned before posting of these images/links do help the terroorist only for the propaganda stuff. one should decide not to give into these maniacs!!! Another thing on ething is getting clearer and clearer...the intelligence is totally screwed up.These guys have stated the video propaganda from april. Yet no one is still able to track these people where/how/when..etc. But evryday a suspect place is bombarded another video appears???? The army should start answering to the lapses. To track a brilliant hacker/virus developer is very easy ..but to track the killers????? Somwhere it doesn't sound good!!!

7 I agree the shock value has subsided and all these images are doing is de-sensitising the horror

8 These faceless cowards are a disgrace to civilization as we know it today. They can hide and run but the US will hunt down every coward and destroy them. They are lucky we will only shoot and kill them rather than execute the way they do in such a cowardly fashion. They are the devil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9 al salam alykom warahmat allah

10 BISMILLAH ALLAH HOUACKBAR. I LOVE YOU BIN LADEN AND SADDAM HUSSEIN.MY ALLAH PROTECT YOU AND GIVE YOU LONG LIFE TO KILL THE ENNEMIES OF ISLAM. BUSH IS AN ASS. FUCK YOU AMERICAN. GO TO HELL. BLOODY ASS FUCK YOUR DIRTY ASS BUSH.WE MUST BEHEADED ALL KAFIR. I AM PROUD THAT I AM A MUSLIM AND SUNNIT AL JAMAAT.AMERICANS MUST SUFFER BCOZ THEY SATAN. ISLAM AL ACKBAR. YA ALLAH I LOVE YOU MY GOD.

11 all muslim cunts die

12 achmed ackbar al wonna fucker buker fuckoffa

13 FUCK ALL MUSLIM CUNTS, FUCK ALLAH AND FUCK SADDAM HUSSEIN AND MOST OF ALL FUCK OSAMA BIN LARDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET FUCKED ALL YOU MUSLIM ISLAMIC CUNTS, ALL YOU EVER DO IS KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE FUCK YOU ALL, LOOK AT AMERICA AND AUSTRALIA FOR EXAMPLE, LOOK AT HOW NICE CLEAN AND FREE THOSE COUNTIES ARE COMPARED TO ALL THE MUSLIM CUNT COUNTRIES THAT ARE ALL FUCK THIRD WORLD PIECES OF SHIT THAT NEED TO BE BOMBED.

14 Both those guys are stupid-The worst kind of war is a holy war. Bush certinly counters with his own holy war. Both sides have sufferd tremendously and both sides are fucked-

15 How dare a fucking pig like you use the name of Jesus. Die you scumbag bastard. Jesus would protect his flock. Not be a pussy faggot muslum lovin cock sucker like you. Eat shit and die. forever in hell you bitch.

16 Praise God for President Bush. He knows how to take out the musilim pig garbage. Die all you pig fuckin whores. You will all be extinguished by your own stupidity. Ha Ha Ha.

17 Hey Jihad, your mama just got done suckin my big hard dick. I shot jiz in her filthy pig mouth. She said she loves being a muslim whore. Just like her faggot son. YOU!!!!

18 Hey Jihad, you still out there? I just nailed your IP. See you soon.

19 Such videos should be prohibitted for they give the terrorists a place of pride worldwide. This thesame as telling them " Go On" News should be sensored if it will create distructive feelings

20 I am half turkish half English and 100% European. Proud of the real turks who have not been corrupted by islam, the true turks that are TURKS and not influenced by arabs. But that is turkey - for arabs and arabic nations all i can say is i stay clear of them because they have a history of trying to fu*k turkey over, but as people they are humans and majority of them MUSt be peace loving etc - we are not dealing with aliens here, they ARE humans. BUT these sick motherfuc*ers who do repulsive and cowardly things like behead turkish driver HELPING iraq, American troops doing their job and British aid workers are not humans, they are warped wierdos and deserve to be killed full stop. But i wouldnt say what some ppl here have, that is that all ARABS ARE FUC*ING ANIMAL ALL SHOULD DIE AND BURN, because they is clear unfair generalisation - much like many arabs here make similar stupid posts about "allah" and crap like that...both sides are hopelessly one sided and ignorant, but i guess thats also a minority in its self, and there are a majority of good, caring ppl who want peace - afterall this is what most normal humans want, peace in their life. The US and UK were wrong to invade Iraq because they started this whole situation - the british from imperialist times, so they are initially to blame, but the arabs dont stand up like humans but instead regrettably represent themselves with such monsters like musab al zaquari who give entirelly the wrong impression. Democracy just doesnt work in these societies - WHY can the "west" not see that and LEAVE these nations alone, the world is a more dangerous place now saddams gone - replaced with BUSH.... I could go on for hours, but to sum it all up, Arabs are different from turks, American, European...so on, we must leave their world and let them live in it instead of trying to impose "western" values on them that most "western" citizens dont agree with!! I am a turk even though in half British and i want turkey for theu, i want turkey to DROP religion and re-kindle KEMAL ATATURKS fervour for a secular non musliim Turkish republic to unite with democracy, and its happening and will happen, Its time Turks, British, Iraqis, Arabs, Americans just stopped intefering in each other and our respective nations and cultures - why ca we not step on each others soil for friendly purposes.... END RELIGION - ALL RELIGIONS WHICH CLOUDS THE MIND AND CONFUSES COMMON SENSE, and live together but on our own in our own ways, end the occupation of iraq and kill the perpertrators of these horrific behadings which do not represent human beings... Thank you

21 and the americans here who tell all muslims to fu*ck themselves and that theyre cun*s are as barbaric as Al-Zaquari himself...you might think u americans that the UK and Europe is behind you - no wer enot, the governments may be a little but the 700 million Europeans including 70 million Turks do not support you...and dont try to threaten us with your "military might", THE UNITED STATES OF EUROPE when UNITED can beat america in every sphere.... Same for the uneducated jihads here who are looking to god again for deliverance - face the facts with real democratic and adult like words, not an array or haphazard prayers!

22 Bin Laden, Bush, Iraq, Christian, Muslim, terrorism, extremists, democracy, Jihad, etc... Our emotions have been hijacked, my friends. Does anyone ever think for themselves without help from Fox news or CNN? If you are on the Patriotic kick, time to hang up the cleats. Hello, our kids are dying and nothing is changing. An idiot is running our country. Blood for oil? Sit and debate about it all you want. Whether you agree or disagree, all I want you to do is take a look at the FACTS. Our sons and daughters are being slaughtered, we are going into debt over our heads and yet we are fed this constant line of shit, and nothing but unrefined shit. It is time to send Rumsfeld to Iraq for a couple years. Yeah, give him a rifle and a pack, with a soldiers pay. Let that jackass see what its all about. Bush?? Its time to give old glory a rest for a day and string that bastard up. The world deserves better.

23 who is god who is allah,it just does not exist.. who can convince me not one iknow,all the wars on this globe have been for something,that has been fabricated over the years..when all the time it has been for other peoples greed.ie oil.and commodities, we shall witness the end of this globe,because we are thick.and mindless.and we all want someone to blame,for our demise. when you die you wont go to no glorified heaven or land of plenty,youll go to absolutly nothing.end of story,end of life. so when anyone gets killed murdered or whatever your not doing anyone a favour,least of all your idols,ie your gods and myths. i would like to say WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU. but i know it will fall on deaf ears.. so carry on,IT WONT BE LONG NOW??????

24 for gods sake, the guy is NOT a muslim. his arabic is wrong...sorry for all of you , especially the one responsible for this dirty trick.

25 Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one

26 That song is relevant, a good one, but i don;t think the worl dis ready to relinquish its nationhood status, war yes but not neccesarily statehood - still, that is not to say it isn't a good thing. We just gotta look at te 2 basic things people crave. A peaceful life and a happy one. If we work together this can be acheived.

27 e.yo ..white people..all mothafukas hahah first of fuck u bitch when i click u guy dont eva dis ma religoin mothafuckas.. first i would like to say to BUSH AND HIS PEOPLE FUCK U AND YOUR MOTHAFUCKING MAMA .CAUZ ...HE WANTS MUSILIM .TO DIE..RIGHT. SO FUCK HIM AS A BOD BOY AND AS A STUF LABEL ON HIS WHITE ASS THERE MIGHT BE SOME MUSILIM WHO KILL POEPLE BUT ITS NOT ALL AND U GOT THAT. U GUYS SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD SON..DO U THINK THAT GOD HAS WIFE AND HAS HAD SEX UHH..U GUYS ARE MAD IF GOD HAD A SON ..WE PEOPLE WONT EVEN BE BORN..BECAUSE THEN GOD HAD A FAMILY .RIGHT SO GET THAT MOTHAFUCKAS .. AND REMEBER THE FIRST PEOPLE ON EARTH WERE ADAM ----AKA -- MUSILM --A FOR ALLAH EVA AKA A MUSILM LADY NAME FET THAT MOTHAFUCKAS. U C WE HAVE GOT THE AWESOME POWER. AND REMEBER.... PEOPLE WITH BLACK HAIR CAN DESTROY ANY COUNTRY.. LET ME MAKE IT EASY FOR YA WHITE VS BLACK AND BROWN... EXAMPLE USA , ENGLAND , VS PAKISTAN AND CHINA ..JAPAN HOW DO U SAY TO THAT MOTHAFUCKAS

28 well, well... I came to this site by accident, but I thought to myself: hey this looks interesting! Now I realy wished I hadn't. The stuff I've read here! Americans who think they awn people like cattle, arabs who think they've got ALL the wisdom in the world just by thinking they have the right religion! Man, its sad. It is so very sad that it makes me wanna be god himself to solve the problems, for you know... god is God = Allah = Jahwe = practicaly every damned monotheist deity. COMPARE PLEASE, would you all!!!! read the entire bible, old and new, read the koran, read the kabalah, read everything you can possibly imagine about religion, and you will get my point. You all live under the rule of the same Lord, your Father, your Saviour. But do not think he will come down and rescue the lot of you... it would not happen. Books(like the bible and the koran (which derive from much much older religions handed over by oral communication) teach us values and rules, some of them are very outdated, some of them are still usefull. But of course, a lot of you are blinded and brainwashed from the day you were born, not thinking about the words you read, or misinterpretated (willingly or not). But PLEASE, PLEASE look further then your holy scripts... they were written by human beings who have had a vision... a vision that was written down hundereds and sometimes thousands of years ago. Stop living in the past... but look at the future. I do not think Jezus or mohamed like the thought of having a world wide war in their good names, killing thousands in their names, bringing fear to those who do not necessarily are bad of hart... in their names. Jezus helped people, remember? he did not go to them to kill them, on the contrary, he came to them to hear their side of the story and tu heal or ease their paines. That is something different than going to war, now isn't it? God bless America? hmmm... I don't think he would do so for the moment. The same thing with moslims. I do not think Allah will ambrace you when you wave died by blowing up yourself and your own people... your own sisters, your own brothers, your mothers, your fathers, your cousins, your friends..... YOUR OWN CHILDREN!!! And no, I am not generalising... there are far more good people out there, I know. But it is a shame that they have to live in fear. i'll take off now, greetings to you all

29 FUCK YOU U HASSAN AZIR MUSLIM PEICE OF SHIT GO FUCK ALLAH

30 another thing...... Fuck you Allah cunt, and fuck your mothers and sisters because thats what your allowed to do. HA!

31 Ikke Den Dikken: i can only say that at least someone on her has something sensible to say. wake up everyone and do what you can to stop people beleiving! Religion was a tool to control people during times of poor and frequently no education. this has changed now and you have no excuse for following the spoon fed outdated ideas of the past!!

32 have a bath u fucking cunts your skin looks like shit and remember wheres your forskin

33 BUSH??? SUCKSSS!!haha

34 This sort of mindless banter won't get anybody anywhere. You really want to disallow muslims from taking over the world? Then actually DO something, instead of pathetically insulting them on a website.

35 LOOK ITE: BUSH AND ALL DEM MUZLIMZ HU R KILLIN ND EVERYFINK KEEP IT 2 URSELVZ ITE.DNT GET ALL DEZE POOR TRUK DRIVERZ ND SHIT 2 GET BK AT BUSH IF D MUZLIMZ WONT BUSH GO ND FUKIN GET IM.I GT MUZLIM M8Z ND EVERYFINK ND DEY ALL SAFE ND STUFF; BUT IF U PPL REALLI BELIVED IN GOD DO U FINK GOD WUD OF WANTD U 2 KILL IM. PLZ?! IF GOD WONTD EM DED E WUD GIVE EM DIZEAZE!!! NT 4 MUZLIMZ 2 KILL IM. I DNT UNDASTAND Y ALL U PPL R RACIST, WE ALL D SAME RELLI!! IM CHRISTIAN BUT I ENT A STRONG 1, I DNT BELIEVE DAT GOD TOLD ME 2 DO STUFF LYK KILL PPL. ALL E TOLD ME 2 DO WAS: 2 LIVE 2 DIE - ND NOT LIVE 2 KILL OR 2 B KILLD. I FINK DAT NE 1 HU FINKZ GOD(ALLAH) IS TELLIN EM 2 KILL SUM1 U BIN EARIN D MSG RONG, EZ TELLIN U 2 HELP SUM1, GOD WUDNT WANT IZ OWN CHILDREN KILLD (I SAY DT EVERY1 IS CHILDREN CZ E IS D CREATOR ND WOT EVA). RELIGION IS SUPOSD 2 HELP EVERY1 NT BRING ON WARZ!!!! U SHUD ALL APOLOGIZE 2 EACHUVA SPECIALY BUSH. ND SOZ 2 ALL D MUZLIMZ, ND 2 EVERY1 DAT AZ DIED 4 BUSH, IF BUSH WONTZ A WA E SHUD GO ND FIGHT IT IMSELF LYKWISE BINLADEN.. GO AV U OWN LIL MINI BATTL WID BUSH ITE? MUZLIMZ SHUDNT B BRAINWASHD BY IM, BUSH ND BINLADEN R DICTATORZ, WE DNT WANA AV ANUVA WORLD WAR!!!!!! CZ I SPESH DNT WANA GET INVOLVD WID DT!!!!! ME XXXX hOLlA bAcK!

36 Ok guys i do understand the hate americans have on muslims ,after all muslims did blow upthe wtc,now everybody says that muslims are terorist not thats not true and al quede group is muslim and they are teorrist that si for someones opinion i do not call iraqi insurgnets or conscripts as terorist after all ,,allthey doing is defending their home land, i hte saddam the sae way i hate bush i do not think there sia diference beetween those two morons, as for osama, one think u gusy shoudl know hwy osamam went against usa,,my source is not a mosque or some muslim,,no i tacke my sopurce form the book written by ajewish person ex cia director named Americas Secret War ,to understand why some one attackyour motherland u must understand why they didi that ,and please do not lie to urself by saying it is because they are so jeaoulous of west ,no that is no the reason coz people dont even know how is it up here so its not that,,Afghanistan fought for usa against ussr (soviet union ex) for ten years tough superpower who dont play,it was a chess game beetween usa and ussr ,,the saem ay it was a chess game beetween a usa and ussr in vietnam where ussr won the batle ,this time with hlep of afghans usa won ,but the promised that usa gave them was that they will rebuilt the afghanistan and everything is gonan be nice, passing 8 years mad muslims that werre studiying with cia in usa including osama bin laden understood that they got lied to ,they tryed to talk but all they got in rturn is abnout 18 speacial opps aghaisnt usamam binladen which by that time didnt even hurt america he was on usa side... to Turkish guy im form azerbaijan so u knwo we almost brothers,but i do not understand u wehn u say no religon ,wtf i read tora i read bible i read quran,ther shoudl be religions always, U are wrongin sying that arabsa are bad and turks are awesome u turk killed about 89 thosuand armeninas with our help of course we were brothers at that time,but now we are fighitng armenians ourself with out your help we do not complain!,,AS FOR THE REST FO U PLEASE WHEN U SAY SUCH ANGRY WORD AS FUCK ALLAH UNDERSTADN THAT ALLAH ON ARABIC TRASLATION MEANS GOD THE SAME ONE THAT U BELIVE IN NO DIFERNECE SO SAYS QURAN,THANK YOU

37 Congratulations, I am a simple WASP. Working a simple North American WASP life, helping and caring for people. That is what I did. Today, I've made an informed choice. I've seen what this facade faith, the muslim extremists, have done to justify simple human evil. I guess you need a god to assuage your conscience about the crap you come out with. Today it's 2005. Today I am committed to the destruction of the faith and the burning of the rag you refer to as the koran. Sorry. But you're simply primates. If you want us to fight at that level, so be it. I don't mind seeing your end. Game on.

38 I AM NOT RELIGIOUS AT ALL BUT I RATHER CHOOSE ISLAMITIC SIDES THAN THOSE CHRISTIAN WHORES WHOSE RELIGION IS ONLY TO GET MONEY FROM THE POOR SINCE THE TIME JESUS CHRIST WAS BORN MAYBE AND EVERYBODY WHO VOTED FOR BUSH IS AN IGNORANT FOOL WITH A VERY LOW IQ WHY WOULD YOU ELSE VOTE FOR BUSH AND HIS FRIEND OSAMA BIN LADEN (worlds biggest buddies) SO THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS IS TOO STUPID TO KNOW THE TRUTH

39 I THINK IT IS A DISGRACE THE WAY THE WORLD IS GOING THEASE DAYS. I LIVE IN THE UK WHERE NOW EVERYWHERE U LOOK THERE ARE MUSLIMS. THERE ARE CHURCHS BEING TUNRED INTO MOSQUES WITH THE TAX PAYERS MONEY. MY DAD WORKED AT LONGBRIDGE, BIRMINGHAM WHICH IS THE ROVER PLANT THAT HAS JUST BEEN SHUT DOWN. HE CAN NOW ONLY CLAIM £56 WHICH IS AROUND $100 OR SO I THINK FOR YOU AMERICANS. BUT IF HE WAS MUSLIM, CUDNT SPEAK ENGLISH HE WUD BE ABLE TO CLAIM MORE, GET A FREE CAR, FREE HOUSE ETC....IT IS WRONG!! THE QURAN SPEAKS ABOUT HOLY WAR AND JIHAD. IT IS NOT A PEACEFUL RELIGON! NO MATTER WHAT TONY BLAIR SAYS OR GEORGE BUSH SAYS. BLAIR IS TOO STUPID TO SEE IT, IM NOT RACIST BUT EVER SINCE SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 I HAVE NEVER EVER TRUSTED A MUSLIM AND NEVER WILL AGAIN AND AS THE MUSLIM POPULATION GROWNS IN THE UK I GET EVEN MORE WORRIED. THIS IS PROBABLY WHY SUCH RADICAL PARTIES LIKE THE BNP AND THE NF THAT HAVE BEEN DESCIRBED AS THE NEXT NAZIS ARE GETTING MORE POPULAR. AND IF THEY DO GET IT IT WILL BE CHAOS........MOQUES WILL BE BURNED TO THE GROUND AND MOST MUSLIMS THAT WONT LEAVE THE COUNTRY WILL PROBABLY BE GASED. A PART OF ME WANTS THEM 2 GET INTO GOVERNMENT BUT A PART OF ME DOESNT.....

40 I will fuck u who sweared to muslim and Allah.U r all stupid wat do u know about islam and real muslim.U r all son of bitch.WE INSAHLLAH WILL MEET HEREAFTER AND SEE WHO IS RIGHT. ALLAH EXCUSE U.Surely Allah is most FORGIVING allthough u have MORTAL SIN.

41 All i think about every day is killing muslim shit. They don't deserve to live and i will make it my lifes mission to kill every last one of them. I will cut off there little fucking pecker and make them eat it. I will put hot pokers in one eye, and and dig out there fucking eyes with a spoon. All the cowardly pieces of shit that cant fight face to face will fucking die. DIE MOTHER FUCKERS< DIE!!!!!!!!

42 BNP GAS THE MUSLIMS

43 i wish hitler was british could he wud gas every single 1 of u cunts! fucking die!!! BNP - Britain For The British

44 MUSLIMS CAUSE 99.9% OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS AND THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. GET ALL GODS CHRISTIANS TO GO OUT AND RID THE WORLD OF THIS MUSLIM SCUM RACE! WHAT WERE THEY PUT ON THIS EARTH FOR??? THEY ARE ALL FUCKING USELESS, HAVE BAD HYGIENE AND ARE A COMPLETE WASTE OF SPACE! I DIDN'T LIKE G BUSH BEFORE BUT AFTER BLOWING THOSE MUSLIMS UP IN THEIR OWN BACK YARD, I'M NOW HIS BIGGEST FAN! START THE REVOLUTION PEOPLE, LIVE UP TO YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND LETS ALL JOIN TOGETHER TO MAKE THE PATHETIC SCUM RACE CALLED ISLAM EXTINCT!!!

45 WELL SAID BEFORE SI, WHITE POWER TO THE WORLD! KKK, BNP, NF FOREVER! "KEEP THE WORLD CLEAN, KEEP THE WORLD WHITE!"

46 there is no god/allah man not created by non existant god/allah. there is no original sin. we r humans.we r part of nature. for truth pls visit : www.faithfreedom.org , www.truthbeknown.com www.infidels.org , www.landoverbaptist.org www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

47 GEORGE BUSH HAS TAKEN OVER THE MIDDLE EASTERN WAY OF LIFE, MUSLIMS ARE FKN GOOD, MUSLIM BOYS ARE SEXY, FUCK ALL WHITE FKN UGLY RED FACED, BLONDE HAIRED, FRECKILY, RACIST PIECES OF SCUUMMMMY SHIT, MUSLIMS ARE THE SUPERIOR ONES!!!!!!!! WHITES R 100% INFERIOR TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, GEORGE BUSH WILL BURN IN HELL FOR HIS ACTIONS, USAMA BIN LADEN IS THE NEW JESUS.

48 u fokin mother fucker siat your momas big boobs i hope she gets gassed u son of a bitch if u speak about allah like this u will burn in hell for the rest of ur fokin mother fucker life u bastard or bitch hahahahahahaha

49 Muslim monkeys are out-breeding you Europeans. When they take over you will either submit to [islam], die, or live in dhimmitude. Drive the islamic primates out before it's too late. If not for the crusades, we would all be muslim and speaking arabic. Now they're taking you over again. WAKE UP!

50 Fuck you you kurds and muslim you killed almost half of my population caus we wouldnt be muslims. And then you go to democratic countries and complaine shitholes... Dont talk about justice your whole religon is based that kill everybody that not are muslims/ ciao

51 I HATE MUSLIMS, AND I WILL SPEAK OUT, I AM BRITISH AND I BELEVE IN THE ONE GREAT GOD OF THE MASONS, THE LORD GOD, AND I BELEVE THAT ALOWING THERE ACTIVITYS TO GO ON IN ANY WAY SHOULD SHOULD BE MADE ILIGAL

52 KNOWING THE LOVE OF GOD BOX EJ 269, EJISU – ASHANTI GHANA – WEST AFRICA (REV. 3VRS 20) Email: knowing_theloveofgod@yahoo.com Dear Sir/madam, I am with much pleasure to write to you this letter. Anyway, I am a Young Ghanaian Male and also a panelist in one of the radio station in Ghana called Link F.M. We have a programme named “KNOWING THE LOVE OF GOD” which takes place on every Thursday from 8:30 am. Our main motive behind this programme is to teach and let the young ones know the real love our Almighty Father has for us. Infact, this programme has made great impact on the youth, which has totally transformed their lives. But the only problem, which we encounter, is lack of Bible, cassette and books etc to supply to our listeners and the repented ones due to financial problems. As mattew 28:20 says “Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you behold I am with you always even till the end of age” Amen. For it has been my biggest dream to spread the gospel of the holy Bible and that I have been to many places like the Orphanage, prison yards, hospitals and many places only to win souls for Christ. So please I want you to help me make this programme very effective by sending me about 120 copies of the Holy Bible so that I can distribute them to the orphanage and the repented ones who are desperate to worship God. Beside, I still need your advice from God I got your address through a friend who contributes much to the programme and he is in the person of MICHAEL ASUMING and also enjoys it a lot. May God richly bless him. Please if you can get some other organization who can help us please in the name of the Almighty God try as much as you can and send them some of this copy. Thank you and may God richly bless you. Yours Brother in Christ ……………………………………… MR. & MRS. KENNETH AMOAH

53 NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD JUST UNDERSTAND,DOES HOLDING A GRUGE/ HATRED AGAINST PPL HELP NO!. FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY NO NOT WHAT THEY DO IM FROM ENGLAND IM PROUD TO BE BRITISH, I HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS IM MIXED RACE, MY MUM IS WHITE, AND MY DAD IS BLACK, MY MUM IS MARRIED TO A MUSLIM(MY STEP DAD) HE IS THE NICEST MAN IN THE WORLD, AND IS DESCRASED BY THIS MADNESS THAT THESE TERRORIST R DOING ITS MAKING MUSLIMS LOOK BAD ITS JUST NOT RIGHT. THANX 4 TAKIN THE TIME 2 READ THIS & MAY GOD BLESS US ALL ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO NO NOT WHAT THEY DO, I HOPE THEY FIND PEACE AND TAKE THE PUNISHMENT THAT THEY HAVE BEFALLEN ON THEM SELFS YOURS ALWAYS, JEM XxX

54 Im blessed to be Muslim.Let me tell you abut my Brave Mujaheedin Cousin.My cousin died in afghanistan in 2002 when he was fighting against the americans near Khost area. He got buried in the Marty cementry near Pakistan Border.Hes done his duty to islam and hes in heaven. Its my Turn to go in Iraq do My duty. With God watching above me I will do my Duty as Muslim. I aint no Terrorist. Im just Fighting Jihad. like every other Muslim.

55 dont be stupid. ı am muslim. but ı believe that a good christian or şia or one only believing god and having no religion could also go to heaven

56 the us is no better then other your bush is the BIGGETS as hole the us have startet war over and over trew out the world you the real terror DOWN with the US BANGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGg

57 my your cousin the Mujaheedeen get his reward form god..bless him

58 A lot of what i have read here has made me sad. I know why we can't get along I just wish we could. I can only lay my faith in my lord God. Hate breeds hate. Maybe you sitting there reading this should let go of hate and love insteed. I am an American and do think we are into to much with other nations affairs. Seal the boarders and take care of The United States of America first. They obviosly don't want our help. I shed a tear for this man and all the lives lost. Help me love brothers and sisters of the world, religeous and non alike. May your God bless you.

59 hello to all, EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE SEEN SO FAR IS REALY SICK ONE IS TRYING TO BLAME EACH OTHER OVER WHAT MONEY AND RELIGON WE ARE ALL IN OUR SELVES ARE THE MAIN GOD ALLAH JESUS MUHAMMED WHAT EVER YUO CALL IT RELIGION IS YOU GOD IS YOU HUMAN IS YOU NICE IS YOU BAD IS YOU RICH IS YOU POOR IS YOU JELOUSEY IS YOU YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MAKES PROBLEM GET A LIFE BUILD A LIFE HOW YOU WANT TO IF YOU WANT MULTY NATIONAL ANTI NATIONAL ITS UP TO YOU JUST BE YOUR SELF AND LITTLE BIT LES GREADY THINGS WILL BE FINE OK NO PROBLEM YOUR WELCOME YOU ARE ALLWAYS WELCOMED WITH A TURK ITS IN OUR BLOOD EMAIL WELCOMED

60 london has just been bombed, SO!!! it take's a lot more than a few bomb's to break our spirit you fake muslim son's of pigs, all its done is put the muslim poeple in london on the front line. you muslim cunts will NEVER win,you inbred pimples on the ass of the devil. hitler could not win, the ira could not win!! so what make's you muslim scum think you can beat us. allah sucks the devils cock while his mother gets fuck by a pig with a 15" cock. i say kick all muslim's out of England, kick them back to the shitholes that they came from. glory for the english,glory for England, glory for the QUEEN

61 All intelligent civilisations end up destroying themselves. we are but another breed on this planet that is conforming to the natural laws of selection. Keep hating, keep blaming, cos that's what human nature is. God Bless John Lennon, Ghandi, Mother Teresa. At least they tried huh.

62 binladen sucks. he should have his arms and legs chopped off and all al queda should die

63 i like this type of books

64 i think all you extremests are dirty scum of the earth.....you are gutless and cant fight like men you kill innocent people and make me sick.......you cant even fight face to face you have to do it like the rat infested little cunts you are..and i hope one day some american or english put a bomb in your country and blow your fucking limbs off and make darn sure we post it all over our media that will be the day the world smiles !

65 U can pretty well figure out the difference between the Arabs and the Yanks. The Yanks are mighty scared, knickers full of stinking shit, scared to go out and get themselves a wash. They just hope and pray America gases the Muslims some day and obliterate the race. The bigmouth red-neck scums think they can do it. And here are the Arabs, who are doing it, every day, even as more and more get ready to blow them up. The Yanks can pretty well call them dumbs, but not coward by any means.

66 HEY! scott u got real big balls right. u want america to kill the muslims. just remeber if that ever does happen it will be the end UUUUUU! AND I SWEAR IT THOU U MAY NOT KNOW IT BECAUSE OF YOUR IGGORANCE BUT !!! U WILL SEE. if u want u really want that to happen go out and do it YOUR TUFF... YOUR STONG.. YOU GOT THE BIG BALLS.. SIKE.SIKE TRUTH BE TOLD YOUR A TOTAL PUSSY LITERTLLY .. I DONT KNOW WHETHER U BELIVE IN GOD OR NOT BUT EITHER WAY YOU WILL COME TO KNOW UU.. ONE DAY.. NOT TODAY.. BUT SOME DAY.. U WILL COME TO KNOW OF ALLAH.. . I PRAY TO ALLAH THAT ALL SCUMM.WHITE REDNECK.. PORKEATING.. DISGUSTING ... HORNY ASHOLES .. SUFFER IN THIS WORLD AND IF NOT SURELY U WILL IN THE HERE AFTER U MAY LAUGH AND SAY THERE IS NO HEREAFTER DAMIT THERE IS NO GOD AND THE ONLY THING THAT CAN ME DESTROY ME IS DEATH!!!! NAY U ARE SO WRONG BUT I DONT WORRY BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT LIES NEXT AFTER YOUR DEATH!! IM HAPPY AND I LAUGH ..FOR YOUR DESTINY IS HELL AND THERE YOU WILL ABDIDE IN FOREVVR!! BUT NOOOOOO!!!! DONT LISTEN TO ME BY ALL MEANS CONTINUE TO DO WHAT YOUVE ALWAYS DONE. PARTY... DRINK AND GET DRUNK... FUCK LIKE ANIMALS... AND KEEP FUCKINGG TILL YOUR DOOM!! BUT DO NOT SAY I TOLD YOU !! INSHALLAH YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL

67 Wot Sen has said is correct, "All intelligent civilisations end up destroying themselves." Look at the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans. Im supprised the UK has lasted so long and the US. Democracys always cave in on themselvs and it will happen to the UK soon because of the muslim state that it is becoming. Tony Blair wont get the idea into his head that 3/10 muslim are extremist and have extremist views. Some are peacefull and i feel for the innocent ones but there are plenty of bad muslims that will eventually rip the UK apart. Muslim laws and lifestyles are also a big threat. Women treated as 2nd class citizens my muslim men is a way of life in many muslim countries, and its getting more widespread in the UK. Tony Blair needs to open his eyes and remove all the extremists out of the UK straight away because more and more muslims are getting into the ways of the modern day terrorist. Even 1 of the London Bombers was a priamry school teacher who teached 6 year olds, it just goes to show you cant trust ANY muslims. I hope something is done before the UK becomes the next great civilized nation to become apart of a hisorty lesson. Peace Out xXx

68 islam is less a religion and more an excuse for arabs to misbehave. islam is a social disease, a genetic malfunction not unlike Down's Syndrome. allah sucks satan's cock in hell, right beside the front row seats where all the jihad terrorist sub-human homicide-suicide bombers are. Those islamic suicide bombers smoke a turd front rown center in hell with sad broken dreams of no 72 virgins, but rather 720 degrees of heat on their diaper-headed sorry asses. islam is incompatible with Democracy and people who are mentally deficient enough to succumb to the lies of islamic filth are not worthy of the blessings of liberty and peace. FK

1 Rusty; Thanks so much for introducing me to Freedom's Voices. The picture of the school opening is worth a 1000 words. I curse ABC, CBS and NBC for never showing anything but pain. Why is this? A school opening and a letter of appreciation is much more important and meaningful than news of another killing.

1 If I might shamelessly self-promote, I'd like to point out this as concerns the Mary Cheney reference.

1 you are all the gayest ever. seriously.

1 Indeed Rusty is insane. The rumours are true.

2 I am not insane! And neither am I.

3 I thought that after dealing with your snake tongued politicians you might be able to get this one. "George Lucas has backed off reports that a Skywalker-centered television show was in development." Ok, there is no "Skywalker-centered" show, that does not mean there isn't going to be a Star Wars TV show centered on other characters.

4 Rusty, don't get that down over the apparent false hope... Here is why: AP: After “Episode III,” will you ever revisit “Star Wars”? Lucas: Ultimately, I’m going to probably move it into television and let other people take it. I’m sort of preserving the feature film part for what has happened and never go there again, but I can go off into various offshoots and things. You know, I’ve got offshoot novels, I’ve got offshoot comics. So it’s very easy to say, “Well, OK, that’s that genre, and I’ll find a really talented person to take it and create it.” Just like the comic books and the novels are somebody else’s way of doing it. I don’t mind that. Some of it might turn out to be pretty good. If I get the right people involved, it could be interesting. I think that a bunch of people blew that first sentence out of proportion... The possibility is out there, and this statement verifies it. But we will have to wait longer for any "new" Star Wars stuff in that direction...

5 kneelmanagersupset

6 http://visacards.acholipeace.org/pdf/ buckledemergedjose

7 http://my.homewithgod.com/runo/fat/fx8npbjxxs/ads.html http://my.homewithgod.com/runo/long/1405979/wholesale.html http://my.homewithgod.com/runo/mature/ytivtfamh/dom.html faintlyheavilysignaled

1 Rusty, I agree with you! How can we expect to reason with these idiots if they are beheading their own people???? How can anyone say it's Bush fault for invading their country? If so, then what is their excuse for beheading their own? That's a lame excuse to blame it on our invasion of Iraq. You're right...these people forgot the images of the twin towers, MY HOMETOWN, as a matter of fact, and they DARE SAY WE STARTED IT????? I don't get it...why is everyone against me and not attacking your views as well? I agree with you!

2 People can have their opinions and different views...that's what freedom is but that doesn't mean that any1 can say anthing for eg..ur comment I guess last week about nuking whole of Iraq...how can you say such thing...Here you try to justify Bush about defending ur country ( orginal cause for war ) and liberating the people ( post war cause )...just because some lunatics have decided to use the video/internet for false propoganda to scare the people .In fact those people are would be smiling by viewing ur comments!!! Like someone mentioned previously ...if some lunatic serial killer went on a rampage in New york ..you mean to say lets destroy the whole City. n.b. Laura didn't u mention before that u'll never be back here....Contraditions to the Core!!!

3 I'm with Laura as far as taking drastic measures. OK don't nuke IRAQ in its entirety but nuke the 3-4 cities where the insurgents are hiding. Also, after Hensley's, Armstrong's and Bigley's barbaric deaths, line up those women captives (Zarqawi was trying to release), and execute them. Unfortunately, this is the only language they understand. They are vermin and should be treated like so with no sympathy, remorse or emotion. Anything less is just a waste of time.

4 I believe if you want to see the Twin Towers, you can go to www.neverforget.com and they will even put it on your site. Every time I see it, I cry like a baby. We should never forget it and never forget these atrocities either. ~C

5 I think the blog is beginning to lose its way. The continual posting of the beheadings seems more to satisfy the voyeuritic tendencies of a few. By all means continue to voice your objections and disgust at the murders, continue to make the videos available for the weirdoes,but we do not need to be bombarded with graphic video images unless of course, that, that is your thing.

6 They are kidnapping and killing people that are there to improve their country. It is so disgusting. I guess they go by the motto of "cutting of your nose (or head) to spite your face"! Let them rebuild the roads and schools and telecommunications system if they are so opposed to anyone else doing it! I know that many of you say we cannot associate all Muslims or Iraqis with the wrong doings of these terrorists but it is hard not to do so. It is unimaginable to believe that nothing can be done to catch them and stop these killings. Someone must know who and where they are! Why are they not giving them up? If we are fighting for them and there freedom and safety, why are they not doing the same?!

7 Quoted above """"I'm with Laura as far as taking drastic measures. OK don't nuke IRAQ in its entirety but nuke the 3-4 cities """""... well it's the same thing whether u nuke the whole Iraq or a City..u kill innocent people!!!..How the hell do any1 know that the insurgents responsible for these acts reside in those cities... One thing is sure the whole ideas of nuking cities from the bogs here and elsewhere is that they have realized that the |intelligence | is totally screwed up!!!....No Doubt Also I agree with James..it's enough posting images of the dead..Pay respect for the families. Provide details but not grapically!!!

8 "well it's the same thing whether u nuke the whole Iraq or a City..u kill innocent people!!!.." I say that because I am results oriented. Innocent people died in Hiroshima too but it got the job done...I know it's unfortunate but that's war and after 9/11 we are at war. Also, how come there are no reports on the Darfur crisis?

9 Problem with Zarqawi is that he isn't from Iraq... He's just a Islamonutter who's holed himself up there. He knew shit would be going down there so he knew he had an element of security amongst the chaos. He knows we won't go bombing indiscriminately for fear of killing the "innocents". They're beheading people with such regularity these days that you just hope they get a bit complacent one night and pick on the wrong people. The fact that we're "tiring" of these beheading videos could be seen as a good or bad thing... Good because if no one bothers to download them anymore, that is less propoganda going out on their behalf. Bad because if they see this is not working, they might crank things up a bit to grab our attention once more... if they're capable of tying a man's arms behind his back and chopping his head off with a knife, they're capable of anything.

10 As an aside, and I've said it before. Surely it is not beyond our means and technical ability to ensure that a significant number of "likely targets" be fitted with some kind of "tracking device"?

11 Expat.....The reason for going to war was to rid Saddam of his WMDs and liberate Iraq from his tyranny. To suggest using them in Iraq would stink of hypocrisy and shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation and a lack of respect for human life. Your final solution is ill thought out. Red devil.....it is not that the images are tiring or that they have lost their impact. When I read an article about someone's beheading I dont need pictures or the video footage to reinforce my feelings of outrage and disgust. As far as I can see, watching such gruesome material satisfies a morbid curiosity and in no way enhances or enriches one's life or understanding of the situation.

12 Laura: Everyone is not against you. Most are for you. It's just that we have figured out what Roopesh, and james the America hater are. Both of them probably wear their dirty laundry on their heads. So why talk or listen to them. Don't even read their posts. Not worth the time.

13 Red Devil: It's true that the pig Zarqawi is not from Iraq. It is true that the Sunni's are supporting and protecting him. They are quilty too. I'll always remember who was dancing in the streets after 9/11. I'll never forgive them or have any feeling of pity or sorry for them.

14 I do not hate America nor Americans. I disagree with Bush's foreign policies. After our last debate, I suggested that we refrain fom personal attacks. By all means continue to disagree with me if that is your choice, but it is still possible to be courteous.

15 James, the reason going to IRAQ was oil and containment of terrorist prolification including the WMD, but I don't buy the liberation crap, I mean we supported saddam in the IRAN-IRAQ war, you can't be that naive. Why don't we go and liberate the poor south Sudanese people of Darfur whose little girls are being r@aped by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi affiliates. (clue: no oil in Sudan) You are right about the nuking and loss of life but it's hard not to get carried away. There must be some kind of nuke that can annihilate a small section of a city just establish a perimeter and use it, IÂ’m afraid that's the only way you know you got them, the world won't give a shit and even if it does who cares, the US has lost 1052 fine kids over there to date. I hate to think that we will have to drop another American soul for these scum bags. Also, if these fundamentalists had a nuke they would use it on us in a heart beat.

16 Yes, thats right. The Americans are not bothering with Sudan because there is no oil there. Ahem ::>> The first export of crude oil from Sudan in August 1999 marked a turning point in the country’s complex civil war, now in its twentieth year: oil became the main objective and a principal cause of the war. Oil now figures as an important remaining obstacle to a lasting peace and oil revenues have been used by the government to obtain weapons and ammunition that have enabled it to intensify the war and expand oil development. Expansion of oil development has continued to be accompanied by the violent displacement of the agro-pastoral southern Nuer and Dinka people from their traditional lands atop the oilfields. Members of such communities continue to be killed or maimed, their homes and crops burned, and their grains and cattle looted. The large-scale exploitation of oil by foreign companies operating in the theatre of war in southern Sudan has increased human rights abuses there and has exacerbated the long-running conflict in Sudan, a conflict marked already by gross human rights abuses—two million dead, four million displaced since 1983—and recurring famine and epidemics. (oh, by the way ~ the Americans refuse to deal with Sudanese oil) http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/8.htm#_Toc54492556 try infowars.com ~ much better conspiracy theories there for sure.

17 HEY JAMES: aka shit for brains. You call my president names I call you names. Get it. I've waiting for you to complain about the name calling. Now you know why. When a terrorist hugging shit like you stops demeaning my country and its leaders I will stop calling you names. Talk about your own country. You're not one of us, though you probably wish you were, so quit saying derogatory things about my country and it's leaders. I've yet to hear an American say anything bad about your country. This proves Americans are better than you. Change up asshole and you will get the respect you claim to deserve. Until then, kiss my American ass you terrorist loving sissy.

18 I beleive one thing in this world that we can never change is people wanting to distroy each other. As far back as you look people have been at heads with each other. Im sure even cave men even attacked each other. The problem today is the scale of the attacks and weapons used and so much hatred bred into people.The world is getting more and more populated ,to see the starving children in the world is devistating and will only continue on and on for generations to come.And religion will also forever be a huge issue . I beleive as long as there is humans on this earth there will be death and distruction.We can try and do as much as we can to control it but it will never ever end

19 Roopesh, what are you, the Blog Monior? Yeah, so, I did say I wouldn't be back, what of it? I can't change my mind? Your comments about innocents being killed when we bomb, although true, that's what happens in war! There is always friendly fire, and others who unfortunately will be hurt or killed. You don't hear about the American soldier who carried an injured Iraqi child after a bomb blast? Of course not. If you remember the Viet Nam war, they called us "baby killers"...what do you expect when there is a war? That you can pick and choose when the enemy is all over the place? And no, a serial killer comparison is not the argument here...of course we wouldn't "nuke" NYC is a killer was on the loose! This is a war, much different. We bombed Japan..you don't see them starting any shit since then...actually, they like us now! The beheadings are being used as an excuse that we "illegally invaded" Iraq. The terrorists want everyone to believe that they are doing this as revenge for going there. Does no one think that this started a long time ago, even before 9/11? We should have taken care of this long before we invaded Iraq. Especially when the towers were attacked in '93. What did Clinton do? Why is Bush being blamed for everything? America didn't start this war. We are only trying to finish it. I agree that we may have gotten into more than we can handle in Iraq. It's time to get our troops back now, and let them do whatever the hell they want with their country. We went there to help and if that meant trying to snuff out the enemy there, why are the others, such as CoogarUK and his group of anti-American Brits, saying that we illegally invaded Iraq? None of them have ever said what THEY'D do to stop terrorism. All they do is continue to bash Bush and America. And the only reason they are doing so, is because their country's in it too! They wouldn't even be discussing the subject had Blair not joined in alliance with Bush! Do they really care, or is it because they fear an attack on their own country, which fortunately, has NOT happened to THEM...do they not think that if an attack on their country happened, that they wouldn't be just as angry as us Americans are?

20 Hey greyrooster, I said the same thing on another thread about how these so called "innocents" were celebrating in the streets and passing out candy after the 9/11 attacks. Someone commented that that was actually taken years ago, during the Gulf War and was used as propaganda after 9/11! Can anyone verify this? And where's the Kin Bigley thread...can't find it...the one where there's like 400 or so comments?

21 Never mind, I found the Bigley blog. Seems there's so much Rusty's reporting on now, you have to get it through the old archives. Bookmarked it now. Carry on....

22 Expat......I agree that the real reason for going to war was oil and that Saddam's alleged possession of WMDs was the catalyst for the invasion. I do not buy the "liberation" theory either and was merely citing it as one of the official reasons that Bush et al have used. I still refute the idea that any use of WMDs would be productive. Moreover it would be illegal and immoral. I am not a soldier or an arm chair general and could offer no suggestion as to how to counter the terrorists. Laura.....your understanding of the war is child-like. How old are you, 15? Would suggest you do a little more research and come up with your own condclusions rather than regurgitate the views of those who have absolutely no understanding of the war at all. Believe me, it makes you look more stupid than paehaps you actually are. Greyrooster.....As I said, I have neither the time nor the inclination to get involved in a slanging match with you. If you have something imtelligent to say, by all means say it. But if your posts continue to be personal attacks, so be it, frankly I couldn't care less.

23 Are the arguments moving over to this thread now, besides the Ken Bigley one? James, you and Coogar UK can take your anti-American comments and shove them up your "arses" where they belong. Anyone who has a diff. point of view is "stupid, childish and ignorant" according to you and him. I am not 15, I have a son who's 15, though, not that I have to prove anything to you. All you have done is lambasted and insulted anyone that disagrees with you, as is CoogarUK. What a horrible representation of your country! I got an email from "Miss Brit" who only posted here once, because she was horrified and disgusted by comments made from "her country"...she said although she didn't agree with my views, she repsected them and would never insult anyone for their opinions. She was embarrassed by the flame flinging by her fellow mates, and asked me to please not think that all Brits are like that. Personally, if you don't care, then why talk about it? Stick to discussing the debate and leave the "childish" insults and snide remarks at home. Look who's 15 now!

24 JAMES the America hater: If you could care less, then quit crying. Sissy.

25 LAURA: That crap about substituting films was just another attempt to take pressure off. The truth is the Islamic trouble makers were unsure of our reaction to 9/11. Many of them though we would retaliate immediately against all known America hating organizations. Maybe some terrorist supporting countries too. They didn't want to be the ones to receive our rightful wrath. In fact, Arafat had his goons going around palestine collecting any video tapes taken of their dancing in the streets. If you remember, the 1st news tapes that came out showed their block parties. Then suddenly no more. I believe the government squashed them due to fear of retaliation against muslims in the US.

26 Differences of points of view are what make a debate. I have exchanged views with many people without having caused offence or taken offence. But sadly too often, there are those who submit posts which are nothing more than rants. I have not intended to cause offence and if you disagree with my point of view so be it, that is your right. Greyrooster's rants are not worthy of comment. Bored with this now.

27 Bullshit copout, James. We can disagree, but please let's do i w/o being disagreeable! If you Brits are so against the illegal invasion of Iraq, then complain to Blair and stop bitching to us. The only reason you're even on this blog is b/c of Britian's involvement in the Iraq invasion, otherwise, you wouldn't give a shit! America was invaded. Never in a million years would we have thought this would ever happen on US soil, but it has, so we must defend ourselves. And if this means we need to seek out countries that may hold terrorists at bay, then so be it. Innocents are killed every day in the name of war, I'm not saying it's right, but it's a fact. Any country, if so invaded, would defend themselves.

28 Nobody takes offense or means to offend, until you start mouthing off about how stupid and childish others are for their points of view, James! It puts folks on the defensive, savvy? Now that you've properly riled up the Americans, you now state that you are "bored". Typical childish banterings. Wouldn't you say so? The bully is bored now, he doesn't want to play anymore now that he's met his match.

29 Laura.... you should really engage your brain before sharing your thoughts, otherwise you will constantly be perceived as some rather thick gullible school girl. And your latest post provides further proof of this. Firstly America was never invaded by Iraq. Secondly the 9/11 attacks were an act of war, but they did not constitute an invasion. Would suggest you find a dictionary/lexicon and look up the word, invasion. Using words out of context is frustrating for the reader and does little to enhance the kudos of the author. Now why dont you do me a favour and go off to play with your friends. Your are to young to concern yourself with such weighty matters. Enjoy your innocense whilst it lasts. As I said yesterday, I am bored now.......and have no inclination to humour silly little girls. Bye bye

30 Then stay the fuck off the blog if you feel you're dealing with children. Case closed.

31 Laura.....charming language, but save it for the playground! For someone who purports to be the mother of a 15 year old, you should really mind your Ps and Qs.

32 Thanks! Seems you are enjoying this back and forth bantering. Who's being childish now? You and CoogUK are on the same wave length...why don't you and he get together at some pub for some pints and discuss the debate amongst yourselves? Better yet, go email Blair and tell him how upset you are for his involving your country in Iraq. That's what this is all about, isnt' it? Would you evenn be posting on this blog if your country wasn't involved?

33 Laura.....presumptious as well as well as having a limited vocabulary!! Never claimed to be British nor any other nationality. Not everybody opposed to the war is British or European for that matter. L8rs loser.

34 Limited vocabulary? hehehe...look at what you just posted, "as well as as well as". Look we can go on all day trading barbs back and forth. I for one, wish to get back to the business of discussing the beheadings, as what this blog is all about, and stop arguing back and forth whether or not you think the invasion in Iraq was illegal. Fact remains we are THERE, now, what should we do about it? I'm not afraid to say blast em, but no one else has said how THEY would fight terrorism...oh, besides holding hands and chanting peace be with us all.

35 this shit is the most fucked up twisted i ever seen, his fuckin head is on his back for christ sake, the mo fucker was hacking the shit out of his neck, im surprised he got through the spine, musta worked out before he hacked off the guys head, strong mother fucker!!!

36 i agree with the giant, some crazy shit goin down there, in my opinion, yous should bomb my ass till the red meat shows, bomb like mother fuckers, oh ya and hail osama mother fuckers

37 Haven't you heard of the "Blue Sky" conspriacy?

38 Haven't you heard of the "Blue Sky" conspriracy?

39 Haven't you heard of the "Blue Sky" conspiracy?

40 Of course, all of you have had the same life experiences of all the so-called terrorists. After watching your wife get raped in front of you, your sister maimed, your children shot, etc.. let's see your mental state on having people who live their lives like animals invading your country. Of course, someone rapes your family member, and you would petition the government... Well, guess what>? It doesn't work. Bush has got his head so far up his ass, he thinks he is a devout Christian. He acts and knows nothing of the true teachings of Jesus!

41 to all of the above. If you look back at all history it is filled with bloodshed of people military or not. Our own is one of the most violent of all. In french revolution they exocuited 11,ooo people in public, all beheading or hanging or other ways to kill that person. This is not a war, its a conflict of nations. The beheading is a tatic of war. We as americans try to paint that point over. We kill them and they kill everyone. Its part of the event that well happen no matter what you do. go a head protest or pray to god or join the military a kill a few of them but the death will not stop untill someone submits and its not going to be the US for sure. so lets go with it and see what happens you cant controll chaos, unless that is what war is controlled chaos.

42 i think that who ever does this to people are sad and it is absoloutly discusting that they can torcher there own people and treat them this way i think they should grow up if they can treat people this way people should treat them this way when i seen them pictures i was sick!!!!!!!!!!! regan evans

43 i think it is absolutly stupid that they are torchuring there own people,it is there fault that this has happend, because of the twin towers,we did not expect any of this... i dont no how they can treat people like this! why are they doing this?we are all humen biengs! its all sick!!!

44 hiya faz wat u up 2 u ok wat u doin 2nyt so wat u fink bout dis init nasty i feel fukin sik im jus chillin x x x x x x x x x x x x x lv regan yoyo

45 hello i think it is horrible about all this they need 2 think about wot they r doing,they are torturing there own people

46 yes regan,i think dis is horrible,they need to respect each other,i dont think they have no brains,or they need to screw it back together,they need to saught them self out clean man lolzzzzz .....any way regan what u up to? am board,i got nothing to do....tell me more wot do u think of this

47 i think this shit is sick we all need PEACE you know. thats a word thats supposed to describe our lives but obviously some people want to go against it. in every country there are evil people lettin there country down but 90% of each country are inocent people who do this need to put themselves in the inocent peoples shoes and then they will see we have a life that needs living so let people live it!thank you.PEACE OUT!

48 YES JENWEN everything u said is true,but what can we do???anywayz PEACE OUT!!!LOL

1 Hey Rusty, maybe you're getting all this traffic on your blog because of the recent spats since I've joined!...hehehe. Seems I'm under attack by every UK blogger on here for my support of Bush and Blair on Iraq and for my nuke em attitude. Unfortunately, anger(as usual) got the best of me, and everyone thought I really meant blow them all up....I meant the terrorists, not everyone...however, if some innocents get caught up in the crossfire, oh well... I better stop...there I go again! LOL. Take care, Laura

2 Dr., Instalaunch is overrated (I didn't mean that, Glenn, if you are reading.) Seriously, I was given my first on last Friday during the debates. Yeah, my traffic spiked to 1000 for the day, but dropped back to the normal 150-200 a couple days later; hardly a helping hand (Again, Lord Reynolds, the devil made me do it. It is not as it seems). Top 100 without a 'launch? That is something to behold. Congrats Rusty! Screw Instapundit and his cat blogging and puppy blending (Blogfather, please don't misunderstand. I worship the bandwidth you UPDATED on.)! Who needs 'im anyway?! (I do, your Highness Glenn. Please send traffic to http://...)

3 I thought it was an Instalanche... maybe this is one of those Genghis Khan things.

4 Well since I doubt he reads a lefty Blog like mine, screw em. You have a great Blog, and you are Blog Uncle to one of the greatest Lefty Blogs ever. So who the hell cares about His Highness. David Scott Anderson

5 Rusty, I got mine a few weeks after I started blogging. Got 4000 hits in one day. Guess how many hits/day I get now. That's right, 40/day avg. Lame-o. Instalaunch doesn't do crap. Take the InstaLunch.

6 Hey, I heard that Bill from INDC Journal's had like 50 Instalanches ... why don't you ask if you can have one of his?

7 Lanche? "Instalanche" as in "avalanche" (. . .from the French: avalanche, from Romansch avalantze "descent," altered (by metathesis of -l- and -v-, probably influenced by O.Fr. avaler "to descend, go down") from Prov. lavanca "avalanche," perhaps from a pre-L. Alpine language (the suffix -anca suggests Ligurian) -- See The Online Etymology Dictionary). And I really like the Shrimp-flavored Instant Lunches, but you need to put in about three shakes of Tabasco and six of soy sauce to get just the right flavor.

8 I have been told that getting an Instalanche entails 1) writing about something Glenn likes; 2) getting out front of the blogcrowd and being one of the first to write about it; and 3) emailing Glenn to notify him. For my blog, DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS, our first (and only) Instalanche involved all three. I think all things must be aligned juuuuust right to make it happen... Steve Bragg

9 Yeah, it's 'lanche because Instalance is a pun on avalanche, only you get crushed with transient traffic rather than snow.

10 MMmmmm Maruchan! At least you didn't get that crappy, fake Top Ramen stuff. And chicken is the best. Biatch!

11 Paypal related death threats?

12 Thats what I was wondering.

13 Hello folks nice blog youre running

14 That woman deserves her revenge and we deserve to die

1 "What worries me most about Kerry is his immature view of world politics. He seems to have no conception of nations acting in their own interests. Rather, he seems to think that nations act out of friendship." You Sir, just hit the nail on the head and, this mindset scares the hell out of me.

2 no, he gets it, thats why he plans on kissign european ass, by returning to a police investigation model of a fight on terorism. its what the euroscum support and they will gladly ally thier public talking points to support kerrys paper tiger approach to terror. they think that terrorism is just a nuisance and so does kerry.

3 This is ridiculous. France and Germany already told Kerry they would not send troops to Iraq if he was president like he said he would have them do after the first debate. What is their problem anyway? ~C

4 they dont subscribe to the same world view as americans. terror is like a natural disaster in thier opinion. and should be weathered, not fought. secondly, they have become such increasingly socialistic nanny states, they dont have the money or a citizenry with any spine to help fight. the euroweanies are to engrossed in the task of staring at thier own navels sucking at the government teet, or blaming america for every calamity known to man for the last 10,000 years.

5 It makes you wonder what the motives of these two countries are? They probably enjoy what is going on in the Middle East at present. None of these countries have offered any solutions. The new Iraqi government that will be elected in January, will not forget their friends in the future. God bless Iraq and Afghanistan.

1 I must say that I see Senator Dayton's act as pure political grandstanding. Congress is currently out of session, so the only people in Washington are staffers. I hardly think the terrorists will see them as adequate targets, as Al Qaeda has traditionally gone for the big dramatic attack.

2 Run Democrat run. Come back after Kerry gives the whole middle east to the Islamic fanatics.