November 19, 2004
Much Work at Tatooine U
Despite the rumors of the fabulous riches I'm getting for maintaing this site, I actually have a full-time job to hold down. Two tests to give today, three tests sitting on the desk still ungraded. Mucho work. Little bloggage today.
Posted by: Rusty at
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November 18, 2004
More on Fallujahgate and jus in bello
Ace has an excellent essay on the limits of moral action in war. Without even trying, Ace has put forth one of the deepest insights into why the MSM and left are so up in arms over one incident in a Fallujah mosque. Here's the money quote:
We have a huge disagreement in this country about what is and what is not acceptable in this war. Part of this is all just a proxy fight for the leftists' insistence that war itself is unacceptable under any circumstances; having lost that debate decisively, they attempt to engage in guerilla-rhetorical tactics, simply sniping at each and every event that unfolds, in hopes that the accumulation of the little wounds they inflict will ultimately win the war they really care about-- the war on war itself. [Go read the rest!! ]Jus ad bellum is just war theory that explores when it is moral for to begin or engage in a war. For instance, juss ad bellum theorists generally agree that it's not ok to go to war with another country just because you want its oil. On the other hand it is generally agreed in classic just war theory that its ok to go to war with a neighboring country if the government there harbors outlaws (see Grotius).
Jus in bello explores what is acceptable behavior in a war. For instance, jus in bello theorists generally agree that shooting a woman in the back of the head is not moral action. On the other hand its generally agreed that killing a guy with an RPG pointed at your convoy is ok.
What the modern left has been arguing since the end of WWI is that no war is justified. Thus the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928 renounced forever the use of war as an instrument of national policy and the League of Nations was dreamt up as a way for nations to settle their differences peacefully. The UN would later replace the failed League of Nations as a way to end war, but with the proviso that war would be just only when the collective will of the great powers agreed.
WWI and WWII affected the mindset of Europeans in a much different way than it affected Americans. To modern Europeans, Hitler was bad because he had started the war. The war was only just because jus ad bellum had been violated. WWII then was just like any other defensive war, the only type of war the Europeans would ever see as just.
Americans may have had the same initial reaction to why the war was justified, but in hindsight we view Hitler's unjustness very differently. Sure Hitler's aggression made the war just, but there was something different about WWII. It was more just. Why was it more just? It is to jus in bello that we, unconsciencly I admit, rationalize WWII's war. WWII was the good war because of what Nazism did in the war. WWII was the good war not because Hitler or Japan started it. WWII was the good war because of what the Nazis and the Japanese did in the war. It was just because of what the Japanese did in Nanking. It was just because of what the Nazis did in the holocaust.
The average American leftist has more in common with a German because he believes the same thing. War is never justified accept in literal self defense. WWII was just only because it ended war in Europe. With war now over as a fact of life in Europe, the leftists believe that the conditions under which war is justified are so rare that no war could ever really meet their standard for jus ad bellum. All war is now immoral.
The average American, on the other hand is much more willing to accept war's justice if it can end the abuses of a foreign regime. The average American sees the liberating power of war. The average American believes that WWII was good because it liberated Europe from Nazism. The average American believes that WWII was good because it liberated Japan from fascist Imperialism. As long as fascism and its fellowtravellers are alive and well in the world, war will be justified. The average American rejects the notion that all war is immoral. War is moral when it liberates.
This is the basic philosophical difference between America and Europe, and between left and right, over issues of war and peace. The left could care less about the incident in Fallujah. What they care about is ending the war. The incident was just another piece of propaganda for them to use. The war, by definition, was unjust.
Just a few thoughts spawned by Ace. That's all.
(Cross posted at Demosophia and Anticipatory Retaliation)
Posted by: Rusty at
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I think that Christopher Cross is right on this, and we should sort of let this story die as it rightfully should -- ie, let's stop talking about a non-story.
Posted by: Leopold Stotch at November 18, 2004 10:59 PM (EPrME)
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Excellent post, Rusty.
Posted by: Johnny Walker Red at November 18, 2004 11:37 PM (uNzPn)
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An email from a Marine that is "there". Exactly what you have been saying. However, I haven't heard any explanation re the NBC tape getting into Arab hands?
M. Lachow CWO USMC Rtd
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: Incident in Iraq
FYI, helps to understand the environment.
John
I got this from a friend on base, it's worth reading.
Good Morning Everybody.
The following is an email from my son regarding the NBC report (with embedded reporter Kevin Sites), concerning the Marine who is being investigated for "murdering" the insurgent in Fallaja. I will be sending his mail to every news program's email I can find. I find it sickening that this Kevin Sites is even allowed to be embedded with our Marines, as this isn't the first report I've heard from him that took on a decidely unfriendly tone. My son also gave me permission to release it to anyone that wants to pass it on, as long as it remains unedited.
-- Darlene
PMM LCPL Gus
TS DET
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:27:55 -0800 (PST)
From: old tymer
Subject: The stories you don't hear...
This is one story of many that people normally don't hear, and one that everyone does.
This is just one most don't hear:
A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with Ak-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded, lying in a pool of his own blood. The Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the injured man, scanning to make sure no enemies come from behind. In a split second, the pressure in the room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard. Marines outside rush to the room, and look in horror as the dust gradually settles. The result is a room filled with the barely recognizable remains of the deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several pounds of explosives.
The Marines' remains are gathered by teary eyed comrades, brothers in arms, and shipped home in a box. The families can only mourn over a casket and a picture of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid behind a white flag. But no one hears these stories, except those who have lived to carry remains of a friend, and the families who loved the dead. No one hears this, so no one cares.
This is the story everyone hears:
A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insugent can be heard saying, "Mister,mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded.Suddenly, he pulls from under his bloody clothes a grenade, without the pin. The explosion rocks the room, killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young Marine catches shrapnel in the face.
The next day, same Marine, same type of situation, a different story. The young Marine and his cover man enter a room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on the floor in puddle of blood, another against the wall. A reporter and his camera survey the wreckage inside, and in the background can be heard the voice of a Marine, "He's moving, he's moving!" The pop of a rifle is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now dead.
Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national television, and the Marine is being held for commiting a war crime. Unlawful killing.
And now, another Marine has the possibility of being burned at the stake for protecting the life of his brethren. His family now wrings their hands in grief, tears streaming down their face. Brother, should I have been in your boots, i too would have done the same.
For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We are here for the man to our left, and the man to our right. We choose to give our lives so that the man or woman next to us can go home and see their husbands, wives, children, friends and families.
For those of you who sit on your couches in front of your television, and choose to condemn this man's actions, I have but one thing to say to you. Get out of you recliner, lace up my boots, pick up a rifle, leave your family behind and join me. See what I've seen, walk where I have walked. To those of you who support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive.
I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq. These are my opinions and mine alone. They do not represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US military, or any other.
Sincerely,
LCPL Schmidt
USMC
Posted by: expat at November 19, 2004 07:42 AM (2+AnM)
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During World War II, George Orwell said of England's pacifists: "Since pacifists have more freedom of action in countries where traces of democracy survive, pacifism can act more effectively against democracy than for it. Objectively, the pacifist is pro-Nazi."
Objectively the American left is pro-Islamofacist.
Stephen
Posted by: Stephen at November 19, 2004 08:42 AM (HLSzw)
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RUSTY: Great article. Wish I had your abilities to put feeling/facts in writing. Not having that ability I will continue slugging away in the trenches. It's a Marine thing.
However: I believe you left out one important major issue. It's called fanatical Islam. That is the biggest problem facing not only the US but the world.
As I listen to the no war at all costs, the US is to blame for everything dundeerheads, I cannot understand why they cannot see the simplicity of the writing on the wall.
As EURARABIA takes shape they continue to hold their heads in the sand. They appear to be blind to Muslim Cleric's screaming death to non muslims. They don't see riots in their streets. Only protests against Blair & Bush. They don't see the disruption of their economies muslim immigration has caused. Leftists are blind little dogs to dumb to see their our destruction. Soon EURABABIA will be fact unless Old Europe wakes up.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:00 AM (RspqC)
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CWO LACKOW ret: The tape could have been easily copied from one of our own broadcasts. The biggest story at all costs. If that tape was on the other foot a fatwa would have been issued. Let us remember the name Kevin Sites.
SEMPER FI
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:06 AM (RspqC)
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DARLENE: Bless you and your son. Mine is over there to. One thing that bothers me. As soon as some criticism against embedding these reporters started a Marine Corps general immediately came out with speeches pro embedded reporter. Guess he forgot about Mr. Rivera and others putting their so called news broadcasts before the safety of our Marines.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:13 AM (RspqC)
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LCPL SCHMIDT: Other way around. You keep use alive. Forget the do nothings, fight the good fight. SEMPER FI
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:24 AM (RspqC)
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Dr. Shackleford,
Interesting piece but some of your thoughts don't really hold up upon examination.
First, this idea that the "left" opposes all wars unless direct self-defense is a vast generalization that quickly becomes simply a false statement. There are pacifists who probably consider themselves on the left who might fit this statement. There are many liberals who many would consider on the left who support military intervention in situations like Kosova, Rwanda, etc. There are just as many on the "right" who would normally support the view that the U.S. should not intervene overseas unless its own security or interests are directly threatened. See Pat Buchanan and GW Bush before 9/11.
Finally, the idea that most normal Americans support intervention to end the abuses of a foreign regime is bogus. Most Americans support in retrospect whatever its government or its army does. They feel that this is patriotism. I disagree. So, since Bush invaded Iraq, most Americans support it. Since Bush did not invade North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Egypt, etc. etc. etc. most Americans believe it is right not to invade the tens of countries on Earth where there are abuses by a foreign regime and if you asked them would they support an invasion of such country they would say no. It is just the effects media propaganda and the 'patriotic' desire to believe that whatever your government does must be right and to justify it after the fact. It has nothing to do with some well thought out philosophy of Just War or some desire to see liberation.
You will probably see this as a virulent attack on the American people. It really isn't meant as such. It is human nature to want to believe that your government is good and to want to see yourself and your loved ones as liberators. It is human nature to want to justify the fact that billions more suffer throughout the world and you do nothing to liberate them. It makes it easier to get through the day. It is even human nature to get on a blog and try to make this all seem noble. But it doesn't hold up to reality, as far as I can tell.
By the way, I have a family member there in Iraq now (a US Marine) and I am NOT a pacifist and I believe wars can be liberating but I believe strongly he and all the soldiers should be brought home now.
Posted by: Abu Noor al-Irlandee at November 19, 2004 11:12 AM (f+Ody)
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An interesting, thoughtful posting. When I was younger, I used to think a lot along the lines of a pacifist (thats hard to admit!). I even thought for a while that I was one, but then the world and it's reality caught up to me. Today, while I still think that it is too bad that man isn't kind and nice to one another, I know better. As long as we have animals on this planet who prefer murder over debate and coexistance, we will never as a planet live to see any sort of eutopia where violence against others doesn't exist. Terrorists don't care who you voted for, or what you believe in, or that they are innocent children. They don't care, and there is no reasoning with them. It is amazing that there are still people who think that they could engage these animals in conversation, and make them feel bad for the carnage they are responsible for. 30 years ago the statement "kill them all" would have appalled me, today when directed at these vermin it doesn't bother me in the least. Taking prisoners shouldn't be an option, hats off to the Marine who was caught on video the other day.
Posted by: Geoff at November 19, 2004 11:30 AM (6krEN)
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You've convinced a lot of your public but your article misunderstands what the 'left' as you call it think. Look at the the International Brigades fighting Hitler's practice ground in Spain, that's taking up arms against fascism abroad! I support just wars for liberation generally more than rightwingers who support a regime's ability to protect the wholesale economic r*pe of nations, Iraq is just not a just war. Lies were the basis for invasion, not Sadam's cruel regime, that's never a cause for US intervention, you just didn't want any power to be in your oil park who isn't subservient to you. I respect the way you support your Marines just as I wholeheartedly back our Black Watch and other squaddies, my brother was there, but it doesn't stop it being wrong. I know how I want our injured treated and we in the UK don't need to dehumanise an enemy to fight them, they're not Satan or even terrorists, if my country was treated as the US treats Iraq after deposing a despot I would be killing Marines too.
PS You censor the word "r*pe" with an A. What the f*ck is that about!
Posted by: Mark C at November 27, 2004 08:31 AM (6M7nL)
Army of Ansar al-Sunnah Threatens Elections
Yawn. Is there any one the Army of Ansar al-Sunnah doesn't threaten to kill? I mean, these are the guys that kill you for driving a truck. They also kill you if you're one of those 'moderate' followers of Muqtada al-Sadr. I don't even want to think about what they'd do if they found out you love bunnies.*
*Related joke of the day via Jeff G.: Three young Islamofascist terrorists—a Saudi, a Yemeni, and a Pakistani—walk into a bar. more...
Posted by: Rusty at
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My god.... I was so ignorant to what was going on in the world. It wasn't until yesterday when I was attempting to look up facts about our progress in Iraq because I strongly support the Bush organization, but instead I came across O-g-r-i-s-h.com. I saw the beheading of a multitude of men, each begging for life. These animals cut your neck, leave you to breath your last breaths in pain I cant even imagine, and then saw your neck off with what seems to be a semi-large pocket knife. I then started to read some of the scriptures of Islam and in those scriptures there is so much hate. It makes me so angry that human beings can do this to others, and to animals.... Im stronly christian but I dont feel I can give forgiveness for these crimes... It makes me want to mutilate them my self, and I do not support the eye for an eye type of punishment, but I do think these people deserve to have the worst pain imaginable done to them. Right now I just want to like...stick them in an oven and bake them at 400 degrees..... GOD how can they do this!
Posted by: Luong Dinh at November 26, 2004 07:30 PM (xcbBc)
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Tawheed wal-Jihad Movement - Army of Ansar al-Sunnah - etc..
These cowards need to be stopped. I wish I were a bit younger! I'd re-up and go kill some of these bastards myself (sorry for the fowl language; but there's no other way to describe these bastard cowards). The only solace I enjoy is knowing that when these jerks blow themselves up - they're going straight to hell!!
Posted by: Bill at December 22, 2004 12:19 PM (298BA)
French Terrorists Killed In Iraq
The benefits of the Iraq war just keep pouring in. This is called killing two birds with one stone. They're French and they're terrorists. Does it get any better than that? Maybe this is what Jacques Chirac meant when he said the Iraq war was causing a rise in terrorism in the world. Yeah, more French terrorists. BBC (via LGF):
Three Frenchmen have died fighting with insurgents against US-led troops in Iraq, reports say....The men were identified as:Linked at OTB, because James Joyner is cool and needs to up that ecosystem thingy.24-year-old Tarek W, from Paris, killed on 17 September
19-year-old Redouane el-Hakim, killed on 17 July (my earlier report here)
Abdel Halim Badjoudj, 19, killed on 20 October.
Posted by: Rusty at
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But those aren't Rusty's words...
Posted by: Editor at November 18, 2004 05:11 PM (adpJH)
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Editor has it right. It's the MSMs fault.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 18, 2004 05:25 PM (JQjhA)
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Dude, EVERYTHING is the MSM's fault.
"The old media made me do it." I like the ring of that.
Posted by: Editor at November 18, 2004 05:31 PM (adpJH)
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The French? Again? God, sometimes bloggers can be SO boring. So some country didn't agree with you. GET OVER IT.
Posted by: matt bing at November 18, 2004 06:11 PM (6M7nL)
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Dude, it's the French. What country were you raised in? Canada?
Posted by: Rusty at November 18, 2004 06:14 PM (JQjhA)
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Plus they, you know, like, did a little bit more than disagree. I hope you're not so ignorant to these facts that they need to be brought up, Mr. Bing.
Posted by: Editor at November 18, 2004 06:24 PM (adpJH)
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Who's this matt bing guy? He came by my site doing "drive-by"'s as well.
Posted by: Digger at November 18, 2004 07:28 PM (FYEx6)
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Bing's just your average pain in the ass, Digger.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 09:47 PM (ptOpl)
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Matt Bing, a man with a different opinion. BURN HIM!! A WITCH. HE'S A WITCH.
I just like some French people, that's all. They aren't all bad, believe it or not.
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 19, 2004 04:02 AM (bR4ti)
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Witches don't taste good burnt... Now the French... they are good a little crisp.
Posted by: Kari Holtz at November 19, 2004 06:45 AM (r+tvq)
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I prefer my French deep fried.
Posted by: Dick at November 19, 2004 07:54 AM (hu9UN)
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Here froggy, froggy, froggy. Chirac, must be so proud of these killers that were fighting for the freedom of Franch.
MATT BING is a little dog, problably the same as the 3 so called French we caught up with. What's a matter Matt did the BIG DOG lift is leg and piss on some of your buddies? Time to go drink as much as we can. Lots more pissing to be done.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:37 AM (RspqC)
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Greyrooster, you seem to live in some kind of bubble. A mad, insane bubble where nothing on the outside seems real. Wierdo
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 20, 2004 03:53 AM (6M7nL)
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But I know what collaboration is. I know the harm you do.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 20, 2004 07:34 PM (ydtpC)
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Matt Bing, lucky there are still a few open minded people like you in the world!!!
I am french, and I do admit that there are a lot of arrogant pricks in my country, a lot of egocentric mofos. But to consider that we are all the same, you need to be seriously narrow, narrow narrow minded. What do you think greyrooster?
Seriously, take a break from living in your own world and have a look at the amount of nonsense you've been spitting!
Also, as citizen of a country, are we responsible for all the decisions and actions taken by our president? Don't think so!!!
Well if you start like this, let's talk about the GREAT George W.! I mean, do YOU want to be responsible for all his decisions, for all his stupid mistakes?
And thanks again Matt Bing for bringing back the real reason behind all that. GET OVER IT, it's not because Chirac isn't with you in that war which will only profit the US that you have to be pissed off with us for the rest of your life.
Have Fun... Rest in peace
Posted by: federico at November 21, 2004 05:37 PM (dNXmc)
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Federico the frog. Didn't we already expose you and your bullshit?
Chirac is a big mouthed shit and so are you.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 22, 2004 05:19 PM (BFaxF)
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Greyrooster, I'm afraid you'll never get it.
Dude, you are hopeless. I was hoping you might be showing a bit of your common sense here but you just keep on proving how dumb you are.
Posted by: federico at November 22, 2004 05:47 PM (dNXmc)
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FREDERICO the frog using MATT BING as an example of open mindedness. The frog is crying for more understanding because all frogs are not the same. To FREDERICO AND MATT BING you two assholes have been exactly what Frederico is crying about. No one has been worse at grouping than you two. Both Ding Bing and froggy have constantly used phrases against all Americans. Americans started this.Americans started that. Americans are morons. Americans are stupid. Americans are fat. Americans do everything wrong.
Talk about the pot calling kettle black. Check back and review your previous posts.
Both of you are nothing but low life cry babies. I knew your cowardness would come out sooner or later. Sissies hiding behind a keyboard. Don't mind assholes that fight for their beliefs. However, I piss on those that cry when they get back what they spew. So piss on both of you. A frog and rag head lover. The two lowest creations on earth.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 22, 2004 10:01 PM (BFaxF)
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Greyrooster, you've got a lot of hostility inside you dude.
I'll repeat it again: MATT BING is open minded to the idea that people are not necessarily the same just because they are from the same country and you are a narrow minded cunt! Period.
Dude, if you can't understand that basic principle, get a brain. You're just making yourself look more and more ridiculous every time you have a new post.
You've also made the assumption that we were cowards!!!??? What are you doing? Aren't typing on a keyboard just the way we do it? Perhaps not? I wish for nothing else than meeting you and trying to educate you a bit. Maybe trying to open your mind a bit but that seems like a pretty tough challenge. I'd love to see if you still use the same language once in front of me, and if you do, the sissy would show you how french people treat little pisses of dog shit like you. Burn in hell son of a bitch.
Posted by: federico at November 23, 2004 08:47 PM (dNXmc)
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GreySlut, I can picture you: the complete Nerd with glasses and pimples all over his ugly face. Who's got nothing better to do all day than posting crap about people he doesn't even know.
From now on he is not greyrooster nor greyslut, we'll call him the son of Senior Texas Chainsaw massacre.
Greyrooster, next week I'll be in Colombia, not very far from your country. Come around and we'll have some fun with the guerillas, see who's the coward. Come mierda hijo de puta. Translation for non-spanish speakers: "Eat my shit son of a bitch". God I hate this greynazi wannabe.
Posted by: federico at November 24, 2004 12:42 AM (dNXmc)
Note to Friends
Friends,
As you know I have always blogged anonymously. I originally began blogging anonymously as a way to safeguard my job and my professional reputation. On my blog I choose to let a side of myself out that I do not show my students or my colleagues. Also, I address some sensitive issues in a not so sensitive way. I knew some would take offense at the way I discuss a certain Religion of Peace, but never thought of the long-term consequences of it. In the beginning I expected no one would care about what I had to say. I was wrong.
As you know I have always blogged anonymously. I originally began blogging anonymously as a way to safeguard my job and my professional reputation. On my blog I choose to let a side of myself out that I do not show my students or my colleagues. Also, I address some sensitive issues in a not so sensitive way. I knew some would take offense at the way I discuss a certain Religion of Peace, but never thought of the long-term consequences of it. In the beginning I expected no one would care about what I had to say. I was wrong.
As a result of the broadening of the audience I have received a number of death threats to me and my family. Hence, the need for me to stay anonymous has transcended my original goal. It is now a safety issue. Up until now I have not taken any of these threats that seriously. For the most part I still think that I'm pretty low on the hit list for Islamic extremists so I'm not terribly worried. But I am a little worried. more...
Posted by: Rusty at
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my lips are sealed even if they know nada.
cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at November 18, 2004 02:58 PM (D39Vm)
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The war of ideas really is part of the greater war.
Posted by: Jane at November 18, 2004 03:06 PM (ywZa8)
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Geez, it's not like you're Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh!! That is terrible! My heart jumped when I heard this. Almost thought you were going to totally shut down the whole website.
Keep the faith, Rust. It's only a blog, right? They can't "get you".
xo
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 03:10 PM (ptOpl)
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I hope you have alerted the local law enforcement people. The welfare queen that put out a call for Bush's assination a month ago was tracked down in two days. Obviously they wont put the same effort into your threats but they can tell you how to trace the threats and determine if it is the same people or different person each time.
Rod Stanton
Cerritos
Posted by: Rod Stanton at November 18, 2004 03:10 PM (a2hGw)
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I just finished recommending to some Jewish friends that they should arm themselves. I've been putting it off myself because of young children in the house, but soon the larger safety threat will overshadow that one.
If you haven't already gotten one, get a gun.
Find out the laws in your state. And make prominent mention of it on your blog. Scum who make those kinds of threats are cowards. Use it against them. .
I'll pray for your protection
Posted by: papijoe at November 18, 2004 03:11 PM (Z3abf)
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Rusty,
F*CK 'EM ALL!!!!!!!
You keep fighting the good fight. Our Marines and soldiers are doing their part to win the war on terror and so are you.
We WILL distroy these morons one day. Until that day we ALL need to do our part and this is yours.
Good work buddy!!!!!!!
John
Posted by: John at November 18, 2004 03:12 PM (PLZRQ)
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Death threats suck don't they?
Posted by: Chris Short at November 18, 2004 03:26 PM (fSJ3F)
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Don't know it, but if you need someone at your six, give a yell.
Posted by: Laughing Wolf at November 18, 2004 03:31 PM (LndZx)
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Thanks peeps. Again, I don't take the threats all that serious. As long as I'm anonymous nothing to worry about.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 18, 2004 03:51 PM (JQjhA)
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sorry about the news. love the sight. keep up th efight. it's great to be a f*cking american. god bless
Posted by: d martel at November 18, 2004 03:58 PM (5S3Uw)
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Right Rusty, how can they find you? Screw em.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 04:18 PM (ptOpl)
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You ever think they make the threat, so you run and report it to the police, so they can track you down via the report??? Fuck 'em.
Posted by: Princess Kimberley at November 18, 2004 04:23 PM (0xMIM)
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Oh shit! I never thought of that. Good point, PK.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 04:31 PM (ptOpl)
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There are lots of places to report such things, Rusty. Lots of work going on on the internet to track THEM down. I've been under threat, being Jewish and all. Take care and do what you have to do.
Posted by: bj at November 18, 2004 04:34 PM (hYF9j)
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What is right is not generally accepted, nor what is generally accepted is correct.
Forge forward Rusty, 75% of the world population could only hope to have as healthy a political / social freedom argument's as found here.
The winner always is the person who stands strong and sturdy in the face of change, not cower before it ... Let Freedom Ring!
Salamander
Posted by: Salamander at November 18, 2004 04:42 PM (D4mP3)
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You're doing a great job Rusty, keep it up.
Posted by: Dale Gribble at November 18, 2004 05:55 PM (vX/LE)
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Sorry to hear you've been threatened. But keep doing what you're doing...it's always good work.
Posted by: Jeremy at November 18, 2004 06:02 PM (/U19w)
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I don't often agree with you but I care passionately that you are allowed to continue to voice your opinion without someone threatening to kill you. Keep blogging as the world needs these debates to stop one side from taking over the world without defence.
Oh, and hopefully the people who have threatened you are just mindless dicks from some shitty university with nothing better to do.
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 18, 2004 06:08 PM (6M7nL)
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Most of the threats come out of Europe (one from Australia), but all seem to be from Muslims. Ironically enough, the last one came from the Netherlands.
Posted by: Rusty at November 18, 2004 06:17 PM (JQjhA)
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PS-which means I'm not terribly worried.
Posted by: Rusty at November 18, 2004 06:19 PM (JQjhA)
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Don't worry, Pete. Mum's the word on your secret identity as Spider Man.
Posted by: ccwbass at November 18, 2004 06:44 PM (ezi5f)
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I respect that Rusty, all joking aside.
Posted by: Gordon at November 18, 2004 06:46 PM (dEFhD)
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Are you sure they're Muslims, Rust? Funny coincidence that they would be from the UK and Australia. A few bloggers from those countries have been giving us prob's all along.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 07:10 PM (ptOpl)
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Hang in there. Might does not make right, but might that is right is nigh on invincible. As long as the threats come from overseas there is not too much worry. It is worrisome though, especially with a family and knowing the bastards don't care about any body. It is a complement to your effectiveness in your blog. In some way or other they are being hurt or they wouldn't threaten. I agree, if you can arm yourself, do so and let it be known. This is one of the reasons for the Second Amendment. As Americans we are rarely loved, but respect and fear are good substitutes in world politics. We will prevail.
Posted by: Bill at November 18, 2004 09:50 PM (ScOBm)
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If your up there Superman....
Posted by: Delboy at November 18, 2004 09:57 PM (FalJ3)
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This is all nonsense -- are we really supposed to believe you have "friends"? What losers those dudes must be.
Oh, wait ...
Posted by: Leopold Stotch at November 18, 2004 11:04 PM (EPrME)
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I wonder if that is why allahpundit has quit blogging. Maybe he is getting the same thing.
Posted by: bill at November 19, 2004 01:02 AM (VNPtA)
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Sorry to hear that Rusty. I do feel that given recent events overseas that it is a factor that must be given weight and consideration. I have no doubt that the desire exists --even here in our borders-- to carry out such actions.
That said, I do blog under my given name, and comment under it as well. Feel free to transmit any sort of threat you wish in my direction, you peaceful worshipers of a dead god, I will be happy to receive them.
Brian Holbrook
www.goldfalcon.org
Posted by: Brian Holbrook at November 19, 2004 01:24 AM (T9be8)
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Is that post saying the contact lens industry is behind the threats? hehe
You and your family are in our prayers.
Glad to see you are not quitting because of it.
Posted by: Kari Holtz at November 19, 2004 06:51 AM (r+tvq)
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They are only threats mate. Fuck them. Its like when you were back at school, and the bullies used to say 'i'll get you, I know were you live etc etc blah blah'. Fuck them Rusty.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by: karl at November 19, 2004 07:06 AM (PM/BC)
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Make sure that you publish all of the death threats for us. We need the laughs.
Just remember, the punks that make the threats 99% of the time don't have the balls to even begin to carry them out.
Simply put, fuck em and feed em fish heads.
Posted by: Dick at November 19, 2004 07:11 AM (hu9UN)
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RUSTY: When you posted your message to sit down to eat with those you didn't know I said is this man crazy? Even thought of volunteering some of my young ex-marine buddies to go with you. GLAD TO SEE YOU RETHOUGHT THE ISSUE.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:47 AM (RspqC)
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Boudreauxswife <--- Is not really married to boudreaux... Send ALL death threats via 1-800-FUCK YOU ... How was that Rusty... Terrorist tactic 101 Make threat, create Terrior..
Posted by: Andrea at November 19, 2004 09:50 AM (+7VNs)
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RUSTY: Please post the threatening E-mails word for word. You have hundreds of supporters who have the time and will to match them with posters on this blog. Then all of us can see their cowardly true colors. People write the same, use the same words and phases. Post the E-mails. This is important. Not neccessarily for your protection but to ID some of these jerks.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 19, 2004 09:58 AM (RspqC)
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Can you get a CCW based on the threat? One thing repeatedly stated by incarcerated felons is that they're MUCH more afraid of meeting an armed homeowner than an armed cop. Cops play by rules.
Also cops are indemnified against actually having to DO something/anything, and tend to come in after it's all over to begin their investigation and report-writing.
Of course terror-psychopaths are deranged - but if they don't know you're packin' you have the drop on them, especially if they're from a country where gun-control prevents it and they haven't much familiarity.
Practice and train, 2nd Amendment and all that.
Peace -- through superior firepower.
Posted by: -keith in mtn. view at November 19, 2004 10:26 AM (04TFv)
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Rusty:
Here I've been thinking you were from the intellectual branch of the Farkel and Doody families. No?
I certainly won't tell. I mean, I haven't even told our co-blogger (although I'm sure he knows), and I'm not even sure I know myself, though I must've told myself at some point...
For what it's worth, lots of people who post things a great deal less complimentary about Islam than you aren't anonymous. I'm not, nor is Proteus or Armed Liberal or Charles Johnson or lots of folks. Also, I'm pretty confident no one is going to pull a "Theo" on me, because I carry a 9mm when I'm on my bike. And I do head shots very well, so I don't even worry about "stopping power."
And for those bloggers reading who don't happen to live in a "shall issue" state, there's a fantastic upside to this. Take any threatening emails that you receive with you when you apply for the concealed carry permit. Good way to roll right past all those gun grabber constraints.
Heh.
Posted by: Demosophist at November 19, 2004 01:08 PM (OtR16)
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Yeah, I'll go in with an e-mail to 'Rusty' and say, "hey, give me a CCW." "But you're name's not Rusty?"
Anyway, I don't want to overdo this. Again, I'm not terribly worried, just a little.
Many of you might know the Commissar. Probably about 10 months ago so leftist decided they would "out" him. I just don't want the same thing happening to me.
So,thanks all for the advice. Mums the word!!
Posted by: Rusty at November 19, 2004 04:35 PM (JQjhA)
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I guess, to be fair, I should have stated that I don't need threatening emails for a concealed carry permit. My 1911 travels with me, the spouse is similarly armed. I spent nearly a decade in the 82nd Airborne division before being medically discharged...on 26 August 2001. Please, please, choose me for your martyrdom needs.
Posted by: Brian Holbrook (AKA GoldFalcon) at November 20, 2004 05:07 AM (T9be8)
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You know Rusty most cowards only speak and hide on here through fake words and names,,,,,,,,,,,,,let them use their real name and who they really are, otherwise, you should expect this kind of crap from some of these people who don't always get their way on the blog, especially those opposing the war it self. They can get nasty.
Ironically, remember I asked you to remove my first to listings, I was in fear that someone could track my family down and kill us as my husband is serving in the army in Iraq now. I am much braver now, not afraid to shoot anything wearing a rag, don't worry but always be on your guard nevertheless,
this is america, freedom of speech, let the rag head terrorist keep hiding and using that one coward skill to keep terrorizing what few are left to terrorize.......they know they are running all over Iraq like a cock roach pit just found behind a refrigerator that which was fallujah......well we are the raid can.........and we can always go back to walmart and buy more,,,sure it may not kill them all but it will keep them from nesting behind the refrigerator in our own home!!!
personally I would be more worried about my own neighbor loosing it, than this cowards who only work in groups by the way. Have to have someone leading them....KING COCKROACH
hope you track down the emails or destinations,,,we will give them some emails or postings to ponder on themselves!!!!
Hang in there Rusty,,,,,,thanks again for the therapy!!!
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 01:40 PM (llyRQ)
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MADARMYWIFE: I remember the post you referred to. Felt so bad that there was nothing I could do.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 20, 2004 07:38 PM (ydtpC)
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Thanks rooster,
Have been missing you in the blogs, bad timing I suppose...just spent some time in Margarets blog....how is your son
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 11:36 PM (rLlU1)
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Here in the Left-Lizadroid Bay Area of Nor.Californ, a threatening email, phone-calls, or even a cross burned on my front lawn would likely be insufficient for me to get a CCW. Don't let this happen to you guys elsewhere.
Posted by: -keith in mtn. view at November 22, 2004 12:41 PM (04TFv)
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MADARMYWIFE: Haven't heard from him in a week. Last call everything was fine. Said he hasn't lost a man. One wounded jumping off tank and breaking ankle. He may still be in Fallujah. Then again, maybe not!!!!!!. Thx for asking.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 22, 2004 04:55 PM (BFaxF)
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MADARMYWIFE: If you watched the news today it wasn't hard to figure where Scott & Company went. Sometimes we don't tell them we're coming.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 23, 2004 08:41 PM (RluOl)
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Godspeed, Scott and Paul.
;-)
Posted by: Laura at November 23, 2004 09:48 PM (ptOpl)
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Even though I don't agree with you in a lot of your ideas. Especially the ones about France (being French). The reason why I come on your site is to get a different point of view and confront my ideas. Keep on the good work dude and fuck the cowards who threaten you. We need people with balls like you to show us the real face of events...
Posted by: federico at November 24, 2004 12:56 AM (dNXmc)
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Rusty - if you get one death threat, just let me know and I will finance a lawyer to go after that person's sorry ass - and you can post his name, apology and repentence right here on your blog and have him eat shit in humiliation.
Just let me know if you need me.
Posted by: Jaymar at June 04, 2005 05:31 AM (nGZO6)
Texas SUV Found in Car Bomb Factory in Fallujah
I blame Dick Cheney, Haliburton, and Enron. The real question was whether or not the Neocon Zionists drove the truck directly from Haliburton headquarters or if they took a detour through Israel, home of America's puppetmasters? Oh, and how much did Bush-Hitler know and when did he know it. CNN:
In a separate raid Thursday, the joint forces discovered a car bomb-making workshop in Falluja's industrial section where a sport-utility vehicle with a Texas registration sticker was being converted into a car bomb.But seriously folks, WTF????The SUV was sitting in a warehouse surrounded by "bags and bags" of explosive materials. It was being gutted and packed with explosives.
The vehicle had no license plate, but some 15 license plates were inside.
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It would be VERY interesting to see this somehow snake it's way back to say and autobody shop outfit in, oh, I don't know, maybe Oklahoma City.
Posted by: Editor at November 18, 2004 10:09 AM (adpJH)
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Possible non-tinfoil hat explanation: it was brought over for contract work by someone (halliburton) and was stolen. As were the license plates...
That's my guess.
Posted by: Mark at November 18, 2004 10:16 AM (WjEmd)
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That one was my fault. Sorry.
Posted by: Dick at November 18, 2004 10:17 AM (hu9UN)
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This is just another in the long, sad, line of stories that reveal the overtly aggressive --and often deadly-- nature of SUV's. Who among us cannot recall headlines such as "SUV Kills 2 In Parking Garage", "Pedestrian Killed by SUV", "SUV Rams House", or "SUV Starts Blaze, Kills 3". It looks like the SUV's have decided to kick it up a notch and issue a fatwa. Escalade Akbar!
Posted by: Goldfalcon at November 18, 2004 10:18 AM (TNNa4)
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Ah, it's the Herbie the Love Bug explanation!
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 18, 2004 10:25 AM (JQjhA)
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A few years ago, when I was visiting the SanDiego area, the car rental place I was renting my car from told me be qite careful about the car being locked at all times.. apparently it was not unusual to find cars being stolen stateside ending up being resold in Mexico.
Suppose... Just suppose, that this SUV was stolen in the southern end of Texas and taken to Mexico as is usually the way of it... and then shipped to where it was found.
Suppose further, that the same path can be used for shipping PEOPLE back into the US.
Suppose even further, that such a path can be used for shipping nukes.
Posted by: Bithead at November 18, 2004 10:39 AM (TJt6I)
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Mark, I agree that it would definitely be a longshot to be tied in someway to OKC, especially since, my best guess is, the vehicle in question is newer than 1995, but I hope you're not talking as if OKC being tied to ME terrorism is a tinfoil hat explanation. I used to think that way until I read an interview with the dying widow of a Filipino terrorist.
Posted by: Editor at November 18, 2004 10:46 AM (adpJH)
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Answer: U.N. Weapons Inspectors, probably from France.
Posted by: Kari Holtz at November 18, 2004 10:59 AM (r+tvq)
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Rusty, you also have to take Karl Rove into consideration.
;-)
Posted by: Dick at November 18, 2004 11:02 AM (hu9UN)
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Okay I admit it. It was the SUV I traded in last year for my Honda Accord.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 11:14 AM (ptOpl)
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Wrong, all of you. Rusty wasn't closer than when he said Neocon Zionist. I did it. Some bearded guy clad in black offered me 20 bucks to "just drive this SUV to a place where my cousin can come and pick it up."
Simple, see?
Posted by: Gordon at November 18, 2004 11:49 AM (dqTOU)
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Yes, it's Gordon's fault. Everything is!!
Posted by: Rusty at November 18, 2004 06:22 PM (JQjhA)
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Editor: I read the "interview". Thank you for the link.
I don't know if any of this was in the news or brought out in the trial. If it was, how soon people forget. If not, maybe it needs to be televised.
GOD BLESS OUR PRESIDENT AND OUR TROOPS.
Posted by: owoju at November 19, 2004 09:47 AM (N4SKL)
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It really isn't to much trouble to get Texas vehicles into Mexico. There are so many Mexicans that live in the US that drive across the border to visit family, bring back chariso, maybe home grown red peppers and drugs. BUT, the registration is still on the vehicle and can probably be traced back to the one that bought it. Stolen maybe?
Posted by: owoju at November 19, 2004 10:03 AM (N4SKL)
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Stolen? Thats what I wondered. It seems more than a little strange to speculate that they would steal vehicles here, go to the expense of shipping them overseas, all to make them into car bombs. All I keep thinking (like the previous post) is WTF?
Posted by: Geoff at November 20, 2004 10:57 AM (ywZa8)
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now how long do you think they looked for the perfect message to send Bush?? probably collecting the lisence plates hoping to get a texas one to go with the registration sticker...
too bad they didn't get that one pulled before the election,,,,he now maybe it was a gift from Kerry???
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 01:53 PM (llyRQ)
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I've known people who make pretty good money shipping over US cars to E. Europe and reselling there. It's all perfectly legal and a way to get some low cost autos to an area that can't afford too many new ones. No doubt the VIN number on the vehicle has been forwarded to the Justice Department.
Posted by: TM Lutas at November 24, 2004 11:53 PM (VyJE4)
Zarqawi Letters Found in Fallujah Safe House
Damn Kevin Sites for turning our victory into defeat. Damn him! CNN:
During recent house-to-house raids in southeast Falluja, U.S. and Iraqi forces uncovered what appeared to be an abandoned safe house used by insurgents loyal to both al Qaeda and wanted terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.There were two letters inside the house, one from al-Zarqawi giving instructions to two of his lieutenants in the region. Another sought money and help from the terrorist leader....
It is believed that the two lieutenants mentioned in the letters lived in the house the troops found. It is unclear whether they escaped the violence or were killed in recent battles.
Symbols pledging loyalty to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network also adorned the walls of the house.
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He has not turned it into defeat! He and the MSM, Old Europe and the DNC are trying to turn it into defeat; but "Talk Radio" and web sites like this are fighting them by getting out the truth. Just like Rathergate. The battle has just begun!
Posted by: Rod Stanton at November 18, 2004 10:50 AM (a2hGw)
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what battle? the battle between intelligence and you babbling baboons? if that's the case we liberals have you all beat.
Posted by: f at August 08, 2005 12:39 PM (1jVt0)
Body Found in Fallujah May be that of Margaret Hassan
The Prime Minister of Australia announced yesterday that the mutilated body of a woman found in Fallujah several days ago was probably that of Margaret Hassan. The PM later issued a retraction. DNA tests are now being run on the body.
Jihadis delivered the videotaped murder of Mrs. Hassan two days ago to al Jazeera television. On the video, Margaret Hassan is dressed in the orange jumpsuit of a prisoner at Abu Ghraib and shot in the back of the head. The body found in Fallujah was mutilated beyond recognition, but news reports indicate the woman had her throat slit. The corpse was also that of a blonde woman. Mrs. Hassan was a brunette.
If this is Mrs. Hassan's body, then either earlier reports were wrong or the terrorists dyed her hair to escape detection while transporting her from Southern Iraq northward to Fallujah. It is also possible that the word 'blonde' was used by an Iraqi to indicate a hair color lighter than the darker brunette more commonly found among Arabs. The good people of Fallujah had chopped off the arms and legs of the corpse. The fact that the throat had been slit might indicate that they were trying to behead the corpse as a final act of humiliation.
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It is interesting to me that the video of the Marine shooting the "unarmed" Iraqi is being shown over and over again on Al Jazeera, yet they will not show Hassan's murder.
Fucking hypocritical savages.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 10:45 AM (ptOpl)
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Hasn't Al-Jazeera shown enough murders? Do you really need to see another? I mean, you've complained so many times about how Al-Jazeera is a propoganda tool because they continue to show these gruesome murders - now you complain that they're not. Sounds to me like you're the one who's the hypocritical savage.
Posted by: Venom at November 18, 2004 02:13 PM (dbxVM)
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Venom, because I stated that Al Jazeera wasn't showing Hassan's video did not infer that I WANTED to! What was meant is that typical propaganda shit that this media throws out...depicting Americans as savages, while totally dismissing the insurgents' brand of depravity.
Please think before you come to any conclusions.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 03:13 PM (ptOpl)
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Oh, come on. ANY kind of media out there could be considered propoganda by someone who happens to have an opinion. Is Fox News propoganda because Democrats out there don't like what they have to say?
You don't like Al-Jazeera, so it's propoganda. A family in Oman who wants to learn about what's going on in the Middle East uses it for news. The fact that you focus on ONE aspect of their programming while ignoring the fact that it's a Middle East news organization akin to CNN doesn't necessarily make the entire network "propoganda." In fact, I'll bet that you haven't ever watched a single minute of Al-Jazeera, and that your only knowledge of the network is from news articles that mention they were handed another videotape. So, how can you possibly have an opinion as to whether or not it's propoganda or not? It's a popular network, so of course they're going to get contacted by criminals who want their message circulated.
"Please think before you come to any conclusions."
Hahahaha...ahhh, I really did laugh out loud at that one. Talk about people in glass houses who shouldn't throw stones!
Posted by: Venom at November 18, 2004 04:49 PM (dbxVM)
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LAURA: Haven't you learned by now that this venom character is going to take the opposite of anything pro America/pro Bush you say. If you say shit tastes bad he will argue the point. Forget him.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 22, 2004 04:44 PM (BFaxF)
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Rooster: I must have a saying stamped on my forehead that reads:
"all assholes please report to me"
You're right, fuck it.
Posted by: Laura at November 23, 2004 02:41 PM (ptOpl)
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MAY ALLAH BLESS THE MIDDLE EAST WITH PEACE!
BEWARE OF EDICTS AND FATWA.
I warn you don't question or add to the Quran, which is the infallible Word of Allah
By Dr. Jack E. Shepard
I warn the militant insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries now fight and killing now mostly innocent Iraqi men, women, and children, you do not fear Allah, if you continue to obey the evil publishing of fatwa (edicts) by religious leaders and scholars. No devout Muslim would willfully attempt to tamper with the word of Allah.
These edicts are blaspheme against Allah and Prophet Muhammad (May Allah raise his rank and grant him peace), you defy the divine assertions that the Quran is complete, perfect, fully detailed, and shall be the only source of religious guidance (6:19, 38, 114 & 45:6-7).Those who do not uphold the Quran, and follow fatwa (edicts) which are false doctrines based on superstition, ignorance, and indefensible nonsensical traditions as the prophet Muhammad (May Allah raise his rank and grant him peace), stated in very strong words, against issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran (69:38-4
. Fatwa were never authorized by Allah or the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah raise his rank and grant him Peace), edicts contradict themselves and can not be added to the Quran, the infallible Word of God. Presently many of the scholars in Iraq are engaging in major acts of disbelief, which takes them out of the fold of Islam in board daylight and in front of all the people, we find fatwa (edicts) from some religious organizations.
Believing in Allah means to believe Him and accept His teaching and His word. Choosing the scholars or the dictionary over Allah reflects a disbelief in Allah and His word (Quran). "They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords; instead of Allah....." 9:31 “So after the truth (Quran), what else can there be, save error?†(Quran 10:32)
It is obligatory upon the spiritual leaders and scholars of Iraq if they do not exert themselves in ending this evil of adding to the Quran by publishing fatwa (edicts) they do not fear Allah. Fatwa were never authorized by Allah or the Prophet Muhammad ( May Allah raise his rank and grant him peace), they contradict themselves and contradict the Quran. Believing in Allah means to believe Him and accept His teaching and His word.
We each are living out Allah's plan; Allah knew each of us before we were born. What ever we do we can not hide it from Allah. As Mohammad once said this one, by his actions was made for Paradise and this one, by his actions was made for the fire of Hell.
The Jihad Organizations lie to the insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries by urging them to entering into blind jihads. These Organizations are led by these misguided individuals that only increase the tribulations of the entire Muslim community by not telling to young insurgents that suicide bombings according to the Quran guarantees punishment “in the fire of hell, wherein they shall dwell forever.†We must ask our selves why in Iraq we do not see the scholars or religious leaders of these Jihad Organizations using themselves as suicide bombers? Because they know“ indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills
himself, then certainly he will be punished in the fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever.
Suicide bombing by young uninformed Muslim youths have been carried out almost routinely as a mean of revenge in the Iraqi conflict. These young uniformed Muslim youth blindly obey older religious leaders or scholars who take advantage of them because they are so easily convinced to avenge their oppression, occupation and loss of freedom that they have been experiencing all their life to obeying these fatwa (edicts) “which are blaspheme against Allah†and become suicide bombers.
These suicide bombers to not live to see and witness the families members they have destroyed, the killing of someone's loved ones or neighbors. The innocent bystanders who die or are tortured throughout their life, having to live and suffer without legs, arms or their sight without their loved ones or neighbors.
These suicide bombers created an intolerable situation, no permission can be found in Islam to avenge by suicide bombing or by targeting the innocent civilians. These young desperate Muslim youth have been taught what is NOT in the Quran, and what was never promised by Allah in the Holy book, by intentionally) killing themselves, they certainly will be punished in the fire of Hell, wherein where they shall dwell forever and ever.
I pray my Muslim brothers in Iraq will remember these things before Allah announces his verdict on you, presently those who do not fear Allah are blocking the ability of ordinary Iraqi's to take control of their own country. By continue to inflict misery and harm on their fellow Muslims brothers in Iraq they are guaranteeing that the American Coalition will have to stay in Iraq for years.
These fatwa (edicts) are presently causing limitless grief and sadness for our Muslim brothers in Iraq. These militant insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries that blindly obey these fatwa (edicts) have created a monstrous and inhumane situation unnecessarily in Iraq by killing and harming mostly their fellow Muslim Brothers. Already 1,000's of Iraqi men, women and children have been already killing by exploding cars or bombs or in the cross fire of shooting , mortar or grenade attacks in streets crowded with Iraqi Civilians. Unfortunately most of the men, women and children who you are hurt and killed most often have nothing to do with anything but are just ordinary Iraqi trying to live, praying for their nightmare to end. Those that follow these fatwa (edicts) how can you call your actions acts of resistance, all your doing is maximizing the suffering of your Muslim brothers in Iraq. In the name of Allah we must immediately eliminate this source of disunity and strife. These religious leaders and scholars who publish fatwa (edicts) are not lords; instead of Allah....." "They have set up themselves as lords; instead of Allah....." 9:31
Our faith is anchored in two fundamental conceptions: imàn (expression of faith) and ihsàn (right-doing) both are absolutely necessary for the establishment of one's faith as a Muslim.
Presently you have to understand your actions are not ihsàn; right-doing for the Iraqi men, women and children that you are killing and maiming by exploding cars and bombs in the streets or shooting mortar or grenade launchers into the crowded streets.
Unfortunately the militant insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries who are by following these fatwa (edicts) and following a blind Jihad in Iraq are only playing into the hand s of the American Coalition by guaranteeing them a reason to remain in Iraq for years and years. By following these fatwa (edicts) mostly you are hurting and killing our Muslim brothers ordinary Iraqi men, women and children just trying to live. How can you call your actions acts of resistance, all your doing is maximizing the suffering of the Iraqi people and playing into the hands of the American coalition by giving them the excuse to remain in Iraqi for years.
l still hope and pray for an immediate peaceful settlement; as King Abdullah II of Jordan said in an interview, Sept. 29, 2004, "that if the elections in Iraq were held today the Extremists would win. Today in Iraq the best organized factions are the extremists. The results of the election will reflect this advantage for the extremists.
I, myself pray that Allah blesses Iraq and the Middle East with Peace. The moment the elections are finished the Americans will have to begin going home. The most American soldiers are also believers in Allah. Infidels by definition are non believers in Allah; Idol worshipers. They like you are created by Allah with Wives, children and families and would be happier than you to soon be able to return home to their families and loved ones.
We have to remember if we break Allah's law, by obeying false lord's fatwa (edicts) we move ourselves away from His mercy and lose His support. MY brothers in Iraq you have forgotten that Allah will send upon you humiliation and will not remove it from you until you return to (practicing) our religion (correctly),†Only when we stop killing our brothers and exploding cars in the streets, the kidnapping and murder of people in a manner which contradicts the teachings of Mohammad and was never authorized by Allah which reflects a disbelief in Allah and his word (Quran). These people have to remember there is nothing holy about a war in Islam (submission). If we call a truce and even move up the date of the January elections, the sooner the American Coalition force will have to leave Iraqi soil, ending their occupation and give the Iraqi people the control of their destiny.
Also the present dramatic increase in violence in Iraq has harmed our Palestinian brothers by giving the Genocide Policies of Sharon a perfect cover where he has killed hundreds of our defenseless Palestinian Brothers in the last weeks. Once our situation in Iraqi has stabilized, Sharon Policies of Palestinian Genocide will get the international attention urgently needed, to force him to end his slaughter of hundreds of innocence Palestinians men, women and children immediately.
We must trust in Allah and immediately end the present unholy situation in Iraqi of Muslims brothers fighting and killing Muslim brother. This can be done only by immediate calling a ceasefire in the name of Allah. So we can rush toward elections; that is the only and fastest way to end the present occupation of Iraq, and return Iraqi to the Iraqi People.
May Allah Bless the Middle East with Peace
Dr. Jack E. Shepard
Email: middle.east@flashnet.it
http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group
http://www.shepardusgov.com
. Fatwa were never authorized by Allah or the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah raise his rank and grant him Peace), edicts contradict themselves and can not be added to the Quran, the infallible Word of God. Presently many of the scholars in Iraq are engaging in major acts of disbelief, which takes them out of the fold of Islam in board daylight and in front of all the people, we find fatwa (edicts) from some religious organizations.
Believing in Allah means to believe Him and accept His teaching and His word. Choosing the scholars or the dictionary over Allah reflects a disbelief in Allah and His word (Quran). "They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords; instead of Allah....." 9:31 “So after the truth (Quran), what else can there be, save error?†(Quran 10:32)
It is obligatory upon the spiritual leaders and scholars of Iraq if they do not exert themselves in ending this evil of adding to the Quran by publishing fatwa (edicts) they do not fear Allah. Fatwa were never authorized by Allah or the Prophet Muhammad ( May Allah raise his rank and grant him peace), they contradict themselves and contradict the Quran. Believing in Allah means to believe Him and accept His teaching and His word.
We each are living out Allah's plan; Allah knew each of us before we were born. What ever we do we can not hide it from Allah. As Mohammad once said this one, by his actions was made for Paradise and this one, by his actions was made for the fire of Hell.
The Jihad Organizations lie to the insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries by urging them to entering into blind jihads. These Organizations are led by these misguided individuals that only increase the tribulations of the entire Muslim community by not telling to young insurgents that suicide bombings according to the Quran guarantees punishment “in the fire of hell, wherein they shall dwell forever.†We must ask our selves why in Iraq we do not see the scholars or religious leaders of these Jihad Organizations using themselves as suicide bombers? Because they know“ indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills
himself, then certainly he will be punished in the fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever.
Suicide bombing by young uninformed Muslim youths have been carried out almost routinely as a mean of revenge in the Iraqi conflict. These young uniformed Muslim youth blindly obey older religious leaders or scholars who take advantage of them because they are so easily convinced to avenge their oppression, occupation and loss of freedom that they have been experiencing all their life to obeying these fatwa (edicts) “which are blaspheme against Allah†and become suicide bombers.
These suicide bombers to not live to see and witness the families members they have destroyed, the killing of someone's loved ones or neighbors. The innocent bystanders who die or are tortured throughout their life, having to live and suffer without legs, arms or their sight without their loved ones or neighbors.
These suicide bombers created an intolerable situation, no permission can be found in Islam to avenge by suicide bombing or by targeting the innocent civilians. These young desperate Muslim youth have been taught what is NOT in the Quran, and what was never promised by Allah in the Holy book, by intentionally) killing themselves, they certainly will be punished in the fire of Hell, wherein where they shall dwell forever and ever.
I pray my Muslim brothers in Iraq will remember these things before Allah announces his verdict on you, presently those who do not fear Allah are blocking the ability of ordinary Iraqi's to take control of their own country. By continue to inflict misery and harm on their fellow Muslims brothers in Iraq they are guaranteeing that the American Coalition will have to stay in Iraq for years.
These fatwa (edicts) are presently causing limitless grief and sadness for our Muslim brothers in Iraq. These militant insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries that blindly obey these fatwa (edicts) have created a monstrous and inhumane situation unnecessarily in Iraq by killing and harming mostly their fellow Muslim Brothers. Already 1,000's of Iraqi men, women and children have been already killing by exploding cars or bombs or in the cross fire of shooting , mortar or grenade attacks in streets crowded with Iraqi Civilians. Unfortunately most of the men, women and children who you are hurt and killed most often have nothing to do with anything but are just ordinary Iraqi trying to live, praying for their nightmare to end. Those that follow these fatwa (edicts) how can you call your actions acts of resistance, all your doing is maximizing the suffering of your Muslim brothers in Iraq. In the name of Allah we must immediately eliminate this source of disunity and strife. These religious leaders and scholars who publish fatwa (edicts) are not lords; instead of Allah....." "They have set up themselves as lords; instead of Allah....." 9:31
Our faith is anchored in two fundamental conceptions: imàn (expression of faith) and ihsàn (right-doing) both are absolutely necessary for the establishment of one's faith as a Muslim.
Presently you have to understand your actions are not ihsàn; right-doing for the Iraqi men, women and children that you are killing and maiming by exploding cars and bombs in the streets or shooting mortar or grenade launchers into the crowded streets.
Unfortunately the militant insurgents and extremists, kidnappers, hard-core criminals, disgruntled, frustrated and overzealous youth from many Arab Countries who are by following these fatwa (edicts) and following a blind Jihad in Iraq are only playing into the hand s of the American Coalition by guaranteeing them a reason to remain in Iraq for years and years. By following these fatwa (edicts) mostly you are hurting and killing our Muslim brothers ordinary Iraqi men, women and children just trying to live. How can you call your actions acts of resistance, all your doing is maximizing the suffering of the Iraqi people and playing into the hands of the American coalition by giving them the excuse to remain in Iraqi for years.
l still hope and pray for an immediate peaceful settlement; as King Abdullah II of Jordan said in an interview, Sept. 29, 2004, "that if the elections in Iraq were held today the Extremists would win. Today in Iraq the best organized factions are the extremists. The results of the election will reflect this advantage for the extremists.
I, myself pray that Allah blesses Iraq and the Middle East with Peace. The moment the elections are finished the Americans will have to begin going home. The most American soldiers are also believers in Allah. Infidels by definition are non believers in Allah; Idol worshipers. They like you are created by Allah with Wives, children and families and would be happier than you to soon be able to return home to their families and loved ones.
We have to remember if we break Allah's law, by obeying false lord's fatwa (edicts) we move ourselves away from His mercy and lose His support. MY brothers in Iraq you have forgotten that Allah will send upon you humiliation and will not remove it from you until you return to (practicing) our religion (correctly),†Only when we stop killing our brothers and exploding cars in the streets, the kidnapping and murder of people in a manner which contradicts the teachings of Mohammad and was never authorized by Allah which reflects a disbelief in Allah and his word (Quran). These people have to remember there is nothing holy about a war in Islam (submission). If we call a truce and even move up the date of the January elections, the sooner the American Coalition force will have to leave Iraqi soil, ending their occupation and give the Iraqi people the control of their destiny.
Also the present dramatic increase in violence in Iraq has harmed our Palestinian brothers by giving the Genocide Policies of Sharon a perfect cover where he has killed hundreds of our defenseless Palestinian Brothers in the last weeks. Once our situation in Iraqi has stabilized, Sharon Policies of Palestinian Genocide will get the international attention urgently needed, to force him to end his slaughter of hundreds of innocence Palestinians men, women and children immediately.
We must trust in Allah and immediately end the present unholy situation in Iraqi of Muslims brothers fighting and killing Muslim brother. This can be done only by immediate calling a ceasefire in the name of Allah. So we can rush toward elections; that is the only and fastest way to end the present occupation of Iraq, and return Iraqi to the Iraqi People.
May Allah Bless the Middle East with Peace
Dr. Jack E. Shepard
Email: middle.east@flashnet.it
http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group
http://www.shepardusgov.com
Posted by: Dr. Jack Shepard at December 08, 2004 12:39 PM (RlIS3)
8
YOU ARE WELCOME TO PEOPLE FOR PEACE GROUP.
by Dr. Jack Shepard
YOU CAN FIND US AT. http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I, Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group would like to personally thank you if you join us.
We have to ALL work for PEACE. Everyone has to learn again to " Love our Neighbors" and become.beautiful, good, friendly, joyful, PEACE LOVING.
MOST IMPORTANT WE HAVE TO give a chance for hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, justice, fairness, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, gratitude to our brother all around the world.
What we at People for Peace Group are calling for is a worldwide change of HEART.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
THANK YOU FOR JOIN US AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO JOIN US IN SPREAD OUR MESSAGE OF PEACE.
BY HELPING US SPREAD LOVE WHERE THERE IS HATRED.
WHERE THERE IS DARKNESS HELPING US SOW LIGHT.
WHERE THERE IS DESPAIR HELPING US SOW HOPE.
WHERE THERE IS MISUNDERSTANDING HELPING US SOW UNDERSTANDING.
WHERE THERE IS SADNESS HELPING US SOW JOY.
I PRAY THAT WE ALL BECOME INSTRUMENTS OF OUR LORD'S PEACE. PLEASE READ ANNEMIEKE VOORN MESSAGE: WE ALL HAVE TO FEED OUR DESIRE TO LOVE IF WE ARE TO WIN.
PLEASE POST AND FORWARD TO US ANY WORDS OR STORIES ABOUT PEACE AND LOVE!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Annemieke Voorn one of our People for Peace Group members posted this message Dec. 12, 2004,Sunday, 4:20 AM
Uithoorn, Noord Holland, Netherlands
A while ago I read this story:
A Grandfather from the Cherokee Nation was talking with his grandson.
"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves."
"One wolf is evil and ugly: He is anger, envy, war, greed, self-pity, sorrow, regret, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, selfishness and arrogance."
"The other wolf is beautiful and good: He is friendly, joyful, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, justice, fairness, empathy, generosity, true, compassion, gratitude, and deep VISION."
"This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other human as well."
The grandson paused in deep reflection because of what his grandfather had just said. Then he finally cried out; "Oyee! Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
The elder Cherokee replied, "The wolf that you feed."
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you Annemieke, you have shared with us in very simple form, the deep VISION* we all must have. Your message really makes us think.
Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group- my direct email is middle.east@flashnet.it please feel free to contact me and share and post your ideas for PEACE with our People for Peace Group. Thank you again for join us and may the Lord Bless you and THANK YOU FOR JOINING our mission in Life; spreading the Lords Words of Love.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"Mama Margaret" I know you are in Heaven Born to Eternal Life
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
By Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Like Margaret's Family our hearts are broken, we have like Margaret's family kept on hoping and we still pray for her but like her family we have to accept that Margaret has probably gone and at last her suffering has ended. As I like to call her "Mama Margaret" worked for the past 30 years in Iraq, she worked tirelessly for the Iraqi people. I; Dr. Jack Shepard, founder for People for Peace Group today to would official like that our group also help the Iraqi people in an way we can. In the name of Mrs. Margaret Hassan. Today I dedicated the People for Peace Group to honor Mrs. Margaret Hassan. I hope we can keep her memory alive by continuing her whole life's work helping the poor and vulnerable, helping those who had no one else. "Mama Margaret" I know you are in Heaven born to Eternal Life, judged by your deeds on earth; I always myself thought of you as a true Angel of God's Mercy. You were indeed a true instrument of the Lord's peace, you sowed love, while you were healing the injured and despaired. Where every you went where there was darkness you brought faith, hope and light while you were consoling the injured. We pray to keep your memory alive and in any way possible to not let the world forget the sacrifices you made to help others. As of today our People for Peace Group will be dedicated to you "Mama Margaret" so the World never forgets you and your work for peace.___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Welcome to People for Peace Group: http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Annemieke Voorn one of our People for Peace Group members posted this message Dec. 12, 2004,Sunday, 4:20 AM Uithoorn, Noord Holland, Netherlands
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
A while ago I read this story: A Grandfather from the Cherokee Nation was talking with his grandson. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves." "One wolf is evil and ugly: He is anger, envy, war, greed, self-pity, sorrow, regret, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, selfishness and arrogance." "The other wolf is beautiful and good: He is friendly, joyful, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, justice, fairness, empathy, generosity, true, compassion, gratitude, and deep VISION." "This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other human as well." The grandson paused in deep reflection because of what his grandfather had just said. Then he finally cried out; "Oyee! Grandfather, which wolf will win?" The elder Cherokee replied, "The wolf that you feed." ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Thank you Annemieke, you have shared with us in very simple form, the deep VISION* we all must have. Your message really makes us think. Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group- my direct email is middle.east@flashnet.it
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Please feel free to contact me and share and post your ideas for PEACE with our People for Peace Group.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Thank you again for join us and may the Lord Bless you and THANK YOU FOR JOINING our mission in Life; spreading the Lords Words of Love. People for Peace Group is an Interfaith Group of mult-national individuals many active and retired Government, United Nations Employees AND PEOPLE of FAITH IN OUR LORD AND HIS WORD
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Please also visit http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_jack_shepard/ where I have begun posting photos concerning my Global Peace Efforts and travels in the Middle East for Peace
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________My personal web site- www.shepardusgov.com, is presently under construction, it still includes my work trying to the End "the past" Iraqi Sanctions, click on real Victims to see photos of my visits to Baghdad's Children's Hospital in 2001.___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I am testimony to the over 1,490,000 Iraqi men, women and children that Saddam Hussein would not purchase Medicine or Medical equipment for with his Billions of Dollars. Saddam Hussein chose to just watch million of poor IraqiÂ’s die without helping them or caring for them. Saddam Hussein chose only to use them as victims to blame on the Iraqi Sanctions. Presently I am working to ending the present Iraqi War be teaching through our faith in God by work together is the only way to bring peace to the Middle East. My present editorial campaign is to inform the world and especially the militant insurgents and extremists in Iraq that these edicts or fatwa published by spiritual leaders or religious scholars are false doctrines. The Prophet Muhammad taught that the Koran was the infallible Word of God and the Koran is complete and edicts can not be added to the Koran. The Prophet taught that choosing the scholars or the dictionary over Allah reflects a disbelief in Allah and His word (Koran) " They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords; instead of Allah.."9:31 " So after the truth (Koran ), what else can thee be, save error?" Koran 10:32 These edicts are blaspheme against God and the Prophet Muhammad taught to follow these edicts or fatwa is evil. If a kidnapper uses these edicts of fatwa for example cut the head off a hostage aid worker; the Holy Koran, guarantees punishment, "In the fires of Hell, wherein they shall dwell forever." Just as important suicide bombers I am warning that the Koran taught any person who intentionally kills themselves, "they certainly will be punished in the fire of Hell, wherein they shall dwell forever and ever." __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________May God Bless the Middle East WITH PEACE and please join us in keeping Mrs. "Mama Margaret" Hassan's work alive; she was and we are "Peacemakers in a time of seemingly endless wars.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group
Posted by: Dr. Jack Shepard at December 15, 2004 06:20 AM (6AFcG)
November 17, 2004
Daniel Pearl Murder Suspect Killed In Pakistan
Thank you Lord. Thank you. BBC:
Police in Pakistan have shot dead a suspected Islamic militant wanted in connection with the 2002 kidnapping and murder of US journalist Daniel Pearl.
Asim Ghafoor died in a shootout with security forces in the southern city of Karachi, police said.Officials said he was closely linked to Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, on death row for masterminding Pearl's killing. Police say Ghafoor was a member of at least one banned group, and wanted in connection with other attacks. These include the May 2002 suicide bombing outside Karachi's Sheraton hotel in which 14 people died, 11 of them French engineers.
Police say they were acting on a tip-off when they raided what they describe as Ghafoor's hideout in western Karachi. He opened fire as he fled but was wounded when police returned fire, and he later died in hospital, said Javed Shah Bokhari, deputy inspector general of Karachi police...
Mr Bokhari said Ghafoor was a close aide to Pakistan's most wanted militant, Amjad Hussain Farooqi, who security forces killed in September.
"Asim Ghafoor was second-in-command to Amjad Farooqi and had a role in all the terrorist activities orchestrated by Amjad Farooqi," he told the Associated Press.
Posted by: Rusty at
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I'm glad they got him, but wish he could've suffered a long, painful death by beheading.
Daniel's death has been avenged! Rest in final peace, dear David. Your killer will not see you in paradise.
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 05:12 PM (ptOpl)
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This is good news, indeed. May 72 devils greet him in hell. Oops, did I say that out loud again?
Posted by: Ricky V at November 17, 2004 05:37 PM (AHaCg)
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Note to self: Turn on internal dialogue.
Posted by: Rusty at November 17, 2004 07:50 PM (JQjhA)
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I was born without the ability to modulate the volume of my voice. It is an affliction that affects over 700 Americans every year. It is also fully acknowledged by medical communities of both the United States and the United Kingdom. I have extensive literature in the trunk of my car that I'm happy to run and get for you if you think I'm lying. -Will Ferrell, SNL
Posted by: Ricky V at November 17, 2004 08:05 PM (9BReq)
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A salute to Pakistan.
It is reports like these that lead me to believe the Ben Laden is not hiding in Pakistan. I believe he is in Iran.
25 million dollars bounty passed up by Pakistani tribesmen. I don't believe it.
Whoever is hiding him has either lots of money or is a religious zealot to the highest degree. Or both. This points to the Inmans in Iran.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 18, 2004 12:55 AM (7yovg)
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Maybe in Iran. I have a sneaking suspicion he's in Africa. Evidence? None.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 18, 2004 08:01 AM (JQjhA)
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He's in Iran? YES. It's about time. I'm bored with Iraq.
LET'S INVADE!
KILL KILL KILL!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 18, 2004 08:11 AM (ccz95)
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Well Matt... was that a tad of sarcasism.....since you seem to know and are bored.. how bout we strap a backpack on you and send you out to find him ALONE... Oh and please don't bring a weapon... or better yet why don't you just take a knife to a gun-fight. I see the Headlines now " Matt Bing notorious BLOG writer rages thru battle zone with only a pocket knife and brings Bin Ladin to justice".... HAHA
Dammit I should have ran for President... I have a plan too ya know!!!
Andrea
Posted by: Andrea at November 18, 2004 09:24 AM (+7VNs)
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Andrea, Osama works in a Mcdonalds in Finsbury Park. He's no longer interested in world domination and the destruction of the west and divides his time between walking his two Staffordshire Bull Terriors and writing a column in the Guardian. He is good friends with Elvis and Lord Lucan and he has given much thought to starting a three piece skiffle band and touring the Northern clubs of Great Britain. Either that or he's in Pakistan. Or Afghanistan. Or Uzbikistan. Or....oh, who knows. Perhaps he IS in Iran.
Where's my backpack?
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 18, 2004 10:19 AM (ccz95)
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There's never an industrial shredder around when you need one...
Posted by: Jem at November 18, 2004 05:39 PM (vT9Oz)
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JEM: Amen
Posted by: greyrooster at November 20, 2004 07:49 PM (ydtpC)
More Fallout from Fallujah-gate
Bill Dauterieve sends this e-mail along with a report on how the Arab media uses the Marine killing of an Iraqi in Fallujah as a propaganda tool for anti-Americanism. Since he didn't call patent pending, I decided to share it with you. You'll have to scroll to the end to see the article. It's just as bad as I predicted:
This should have been the week of a great propaganda
victory for us. Now, the Marine might have violated rules of
engagement, but as I recall, the Geneva Convention also allows for the
summary execution of partisans (no uniforms, dressed as civilians,
carrying arms). So no violation of international law there. He may
have violated US and military law.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
04:25 PM
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"Instead, some marines forget to cover their asses and ruin the reputation of all Americans."
What reputation was that, again? Come on, you want to make an arguement the Marines made a mistake, fine, but to don't it by using our "reputation" as motivation. That's just pussy, Mr. Dauterieve. Yep. Dang, that Peggy Hill is one fine piece of...
Posted by: Editor at November 17, 2004 05:21 PM (adpJH)
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Not to plug my blog, really, I promise! But I posted an entry about the news article mentioned. I find it extremely hypocritical of Al-Jazeera to post the images of the Marine shooting and not those of Margaret's execution. This is a blatant attempt to fuel contempt. Bad form!
Posted by: Ricky V at November 17, 2004 05:41 PM (AHaCg)
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What I want to know is, what does Cotton Hill think?
Posted by: Johnny Walker Red at November 17, 2004 07:08 PM (2l8QE)
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Not to plug my blog either... it sucks, really...
I just posted the pic of the controversial "insurgent". It looks to me as if he is holding a gun. In which case, the marine should be in the clear. The guy is faking his death, his weapon still in hand... it's not like this guy was unarmed. I'm glad he's dead now.
Posted by: Princess Kimberley at November 17, 2004 09:51 PM (0xMIM)
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Uh PK, not to burst your bubble, but that's not the one he shot. That's the one they left alone because he was clearly surrendering... to the camera crew. You've GOT to see the video
Posted by: Editor at November 17, 2004 10:35 PM (uurD1)
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did you people even hear/see the video? you can hear an american say "....look he's still breathing..." and then the report of the gun. the soldiers were standing over the bodies and watching them for signs of life; they weren't engaged in combat. thats cold blooded murder, performed by an american hero, in my american name.
now i don't believe everything i hear or see, and of course that clip is wildly out of context as i watch it in my living room, but when you are a virtuous person, and/or sworn into a code of conduct, the fighting stops at the moment your enemy is neutralized. you don't walk around the victims SS style and methodically kill them.
were these people resisting before they were wounded? probably. were they murderous islamic radicals? good bet. but an atrocity is an atrocity, and now that killing video is one more piece of ordnance for jihadis to lob back at us.
thanks for making the world a safer place, Dubya. you're my hero.
Posted by: jack at November 17, 2004 11:20 PM (+7VNs)
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Jack heard him say (look he's still breathing).
PK says (he was holding a gun).
I heard someone say (he's faking).
Let us be honest and say we don't know.
International law (Geneva Convention) backs the Marine.
Common sense backs the Marine.
The so called victim was shooting and trying to kill Marines and Iraqi Soldiers before he was wounded. (if he was in fact wounded).
Americans are never given quarter. Always killed when wounded.
Enemy combatants out of uniform deserve to be killed on site.
If a Marine behaved like the terrorists/insurgents what is the difference?
The difference is people like JACK. Always searching for a reason to blame America/Bush.
JACK: Watch some of the beheading videos. Thats were you will find
the methodical SS style killing. In particular watch the ones showing all the unarmed, hog tied Iraqi recruits being shot.
DIDN'T HEAR FROM YOU THEN. You are nothing.
Thank you Dubya. Thank you for allowing our Marines to kill terrorists before they kill more innocents.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 11:55 PM (7yovg)
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Oh yea: Thanks again Kevin Sites. The terrorists need more just like you.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 18, 2004 12:01 AM (7yovg)
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The Geneva Convention also allows for the
summary execution of partisans (no uniforms, dressed as civilians, carrying arms).
But was he armed? Thank goodness Bush rejected the ICC. This guy would never get a fair trial.
Posted by: Jane at November 18, 2004 07:41 AM (ywZa8)
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I'm still agnostic, although 'legally' it looks like he did nothing wrong. Jack actually makes a good point, that is the morality of actions in war--jus en bellio. Killing can only be justified, even in war, as an act of self-defense. This seems not to be that. On the other hand, the Marines state of mind should taken into account as a mitigating circumstance. That is, the Marine (as many have alleged) might have had experiences of terrorists feigning death and then hurling a grenade (or some similar situation). Still, it doesn't look good.
The stupid part of Jack's statement was the crack at Bush. It would be like blaming FDR for the thousands of German soldiers killed in a similar fashion in WWII. Crimes happen in war. What was different about WWII was the media knew which side they were on and the left was on board with the war (mostly because the Soviets were on our side).
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 18, 2004 08:10 AM (JQjhA)
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This is the stupidist and the most ignorant argument I have every heard. This is WAR. You live, you win......you die, you lose. That marine had every right to do what he did. There should be NO rules in war. Sure it would suck if that happened to an American, but you know what, that is what war is. It is an all out battle, a fight to the death. That marine should be given a medal for ridding the earth of a piece of scum insurgent. I would have done the same thing. And I would have popped the one that surrendered too.
Have you seen the movie "Saving Private Ryan"? Remember the scene where the Americans take pity on the German soldier and let him go free. Then the soldier comes back and kills a ton more Americans. Tat is the moral to this story. Let me tell you what would have happened. We would have captured the insurgent, put him in prison for a few years. Waste money on his room and board, meals, etc etc. Then we would release him because he is "not considered a threat any longer". Then he would kill innocent civilians in a suicide mission. Trust me, that is a VERY likely scenario.
What these stupid people don't understand is that we are not there. So he was caught on camera killing some camel jockey, big deal. What about all of the footage we HAVEN'T seen of Americans being executed and drug through the streets and maimed? This whole argument makes me sick because the killing was JUSTIFIED....end of story. You want to bitch and whine about it then I suggest you pick up a weapon and see for yourself what our soldiers are going through. See how you would have reacted.
I'm done.
Posted by: roger at November 18, 2004 08:58 AM (g8ZKo)
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Ok, OK, if you're gonna fight, lets get this right. There was a time line in the video. Two days, I understand. the first part of the whole video shows the Marines taking the building, part of a Mosque, I believe. And it shows the Marines going in and making a sweep inside, picking up and stacking the individual's weapons. While it didn't show disposal, I'm sure they didn't just leave them there.
The second part is apparently a second platoon the next day with the same cameraman, or that's the first explanation I heard when the tape was shown on Fox the first ime. The Marines came in, discovering the wounded that had been there from the first day or incident, and having been exposed to exploding dead and injured the day before, took no chances.
Lessee, did the cameraman play any part here? He obviously knew from the first taping, that these people had been disarmed, he took pictures of it, so why didn't he say something? He also took it (the tape) first to Al Jazeera, so what's happening here?
And then one more thing for all of you Monday Morning Quarterbacks, have you ever known the fear and anger of Combat? Not a Fucking Chance! Or you wouldn't be saying shit or commenting either way about this incident. These are young men, 18 to 25 years old, sent to Iraq on their Senior Trip, getting to make life or death decisions in seconds. They can''t always be 100% right, it ain't humanly possible. And the way the game is played over there, well it ain't all fair on either side, so unless you have been there, shut the fuck up and cease the debate!
Posted by: large at November 18, 2004 09:47 AM (VRK2g)
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I am in full agreement of the above two posters' comments.
"nuff said.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 10:49 AM (ptOpl)
14
Back in Desert Storm my squad was on a mission and lost radio comms while under sporadic and inaccurate sniper fire. I sent one team back to get some help. Within 10 minutes of them leaving a car filled with armed Iraqis stopped near our position and 5 armed men exited the car and proceeded towards us. We were probably unseen but after cautioning my men to hold their fire until I fired. I ordered the Iraqis to drop their weapons. Two did immediatly, two hesitated and the one with the RPG ran back to the car. I saw movement in the car as the Iraqi reached inside and someone sat up and passed him a bundle through the open window. In a split second I had to decide whether to shoot and kill someone who may not have understood my order or to risk the lives of the 4 men with me who had trained with me for 8 months. The decision I made then is on my mind everyday since then. I saw an armed man take an unidentified bundle from a car. I made the wrong decision then and I would never second guess someonelse's. These are the things you live with. Killing is a hell of a way to make a living.
Posted by: Bullshark at November 18, 2004 11:40 AM (O+Txs)
15
Look. I don't care that the Marine shot that guy. Shoot them all. Just don't let the camera capture all of it on video tape. The shooter was himself wounded. So that is a pass for him.
His buddies should have noticed the large TV camera in the corner and thought, "Gee, this might not look right to some people not here". Grab the tape and move on. No one will care about one reporters' claim of 'crimes'.
This is both a shooting war and a propaganda war. It is not just important to do good, but we must also be seen as doing good.
Posted by: Bill Dautrive at November 18, 2004 11:52 AM (G95Uf)
16
"This is both a shooting war and a propaganda war. It is not just important to do good, but we must also be seen as doing good."
Amen, brotha!
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 18, 2004 01:56 PM (JQjhA)
17
Considering the Defense Department is investigating the shooting, it's not as cut and dry as you might think. Also, while you might be citing the Geneva Convention as proof the soldier was in the right, the fact is that the U.S.'s own rules of engagement state that soldiers are authorized to use force when presented with a hostile act or hostile intent (i.e. self-defense -And when, in all of this GWOT, did the U.S decide it was going to follow the Geneva Convention anyways?) The fact that the insurgent was not armed would imply that the Marines were not in any immediate threat at that point. In other words, he violated the rules of engagment by killing an unarmed man. (frankly, why not capture him and interrogate him?)
Secondly, attempting to find blame in Sites is pretty pathetic. I mean, you can't defend the Marine by saying he did nothing wrong, and then turn around and say that Sites is at fault. If the Marine did nothing wrong, then Sites didn't do anything wrong by capturing it on video. Of course, you're probably agitated that the video portrays what actually happened: that a Marine stooped to the level of the kidnappers and killed someone in cold blood. And why be pissed off at a journalist for doing his job? In war, you have to be prepared to show the good with the bad.
Anyways, the government of GWB has taken the proactive step in launching an investigation to determine whether or not a court martial will be warranted. It looks like the Defense Department will determine what punishment is needed for this Marine's cowardly act.
Posted by: Venom at November 18, 2004 01:57 PM (dbxVM)
18
IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.
cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at November 18, 2004 02:16 PM (D39Vm)
19
It IS cut and dry! The Marine shot the enemy.
Case closed.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 03:16 PM (ptOpl)
20
GEYROOSTER is 'bang on',plain and simple.Tell it like it is,cut to the chase,this is real,time to pull heads out of the sand,get with it, open up your mind.
Posted by: sopotamia at November 18, 2004 04:31 PM (s6TbO)
21
"It IS cut and dry! The Marine shot the enemy.
Case closed."
So, why is the Defense Department investigating?
Posted by: Venom at November 18, 2004 04:35 PM (dbxVM)
22
Because they don't wanna be blamed for NOT investigating. I haven't met or heard anyone that doesn't agree with the Marine, except maybe on THIS blog, which is usually comments from foreigners who stick their noses in where they don't belong.
The others are just anti-American, anti-war, bleeding heart lib's who'd rather stick up for the ragheads than our brothers.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 05:52 PM (ptOpl)
23
"Because they don't wanna be blamed for NOT investigating."
That's your speculation, something you can't back up. All reports have stated that the Defense Department is investigating whether or not a crime was committed. Not to cover their asses.
It's funny that as soon as holes are poked in your fabrications, you immediately start foaming at the mouth and start talking about "bleeding heart libs." Is Donald Rumsfeld a "bleeding heart lib" because his department is opening an investigation? You ought to be proud that GWB's administration is trying to do the right thing here.
Posted by: Venom at November 18, 2004 05:59 PM (dbxVM)
24
Venom: Have you ever served your country? If so, I doubt you would be spewing such bullshit. What would you have done? Let the fucker go so he could kill our soldiers another day or possibly when that Marine's back was turned?
Trouble today, is that so much of this shit is recorded and shown through various media sources. Then everyone and their mother is quick to point the finger and blame someone.
Had this been WW2 and we let everyone go like that, we'd all be dead.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 07:15 PM (ptOpl)
25
An email from a Marine that is "there". Exactly what you have been saying. However, I haven't heard any explanation re the NBC tape getting into Arab hands?
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: Incident in Iraq
FYI, helps to understand the environment.
John
I got this from a friend on base, it's worth reading.
Good Morning Everybody.
The following is an email from my son regarding the NBC report (with embedded reporter Kevin Sites), concerning the Marine who is being investigated for "murdering" the insurgent in Fallaja. I will be sending his mail to every news program's email I can find. I find it sickening that this Kevin Sites is even allowed to be embedded with our Marines, as this isn't the first report I've heard from him that took on a decidely unfriendly tone. My son also gave me permission to release it to anyone that wants to pass it on, as long as it remains unedited.
-- Darlene
PMM LCPL Gus
TS DET
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:27:55 -0800 (PST)
From: old tymer
Subject: The stories you don't hear...
This is one story of many that people normally don't hear, and one that everyone does.
This is just one most don't hear:
A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with Ak-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded, lying in a pool of his own blood. The Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the injured man, scanning to make sure no enemies come from behind. In a split second, the pressure in the room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard. Marines outside rush to the room, and look in horror as the dust gradually settles. The result is a room filled with the barely recognizable remains of the deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several pounds of explosives.
The Marines' remains are gathered by teary eyed comrades, brothers in arms, and shipped home in a box. The families can only mourn over a casket and a picture of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid behind a white flag. But no one hears these stories, except those who have lived to carry remains of a friend, and the families who loved the dead. No one hears this, so no one cares.
This is the story everyone hears:
A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insugent can be heard saying, "Mister,mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded.Suddenly, he pulls from under his bloody clothes a grenade, without the pin. The explosion rocks the room, killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young Marine catches shrapnel in the face.
The next day, same Marine, same type of situation, a different story. The young Marine and his cover man enter a room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on the floor in puddle of blood, another against the wall. A reporter and his camera survey the wreckage inside, and in the background can be heard the voice of a Marine, "He's moving, he's moving!" The pop of a rifle is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now dead.
Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national television, and the Marine is being held for commiting a war crime. Unlawful killing.
And now, another Marine has the possibility of being burned at the stake for protecting the life of his brethren. His family now wrings their hands in grief, tears streaming down their face. Brother, should I have been in your boots, i too would have done the same.
For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We are here for the man to our left, and the man to our right. We choose to give our lives so that the man or woman next to us can go home and see their husbands, wives, children, friends and families.
For those of you who sit on your couches in front of your television, and choose to condemn this man's actions, I have but one thing to say to you. Get out of you recliner, lace up my boots, pick up a rifle, leave your family behind and join me. See what I've seen, walk where I have walked. To those of you who support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive.
I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq. These are my opinions and mine alone. They do not represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US military, or any other.
Sincerely,
LCPL Schmidt
USMC
Posted by: expat at November 19, 2004 07:31 AM (2+AnM)
26
Anyone who condemns this Marine for doing his duty, along with the other anti-war lib's, can go the fuck to Canada. Or, if they think they can do a better job, strap up your boot laces, tote a gun, and go to Iraq. Then, let's see what you'd do with death staring you in the face.
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Laura at November 19, 2004 09:06 AM (ptOpl)
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Let the words ring true. GOD BLESS
Posted by: owoju at November 19, 2004 09:25 AM (N4SKL)
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GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS AND THE USA.
Posted by: owoju at November 19, 2004 09:28 AM (N4SKL)
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Laura:
What the fuck are you talking about? Can you not read? Where did I suggest that the right course of action would be to "let him go." In my original post, I said "(frankly, why not capture him and interrogate him?)"
And please, tell me what's bullshit about what I'm writing? The U.S. has its rules of engagement. If a soldier violates them, an investigation is required. What is so fucking hard to understand about this? GWB and Rumsfeld understand this. Are you saying they're in the wrong?
Posted by: Venom at November 19, 2004 09:34 AM (dbxVM)
30
Venom, there are no rules in war! These soldiers are there in some of the worst and most dangerous situations that go beyond a "normal" war. These guys will dress up as civilians, Iraqi soldiers that are friendly to the US, they violate the rules by fighting inside the mosques.
The Marine saw the body movement. Yesterday, that same Marine let someone go and thea bastard had an explosive. He wasn't taking any chances the 2nd time. These are sneaky motherfuckers we're talking about. If the boot were on the other foot, the Marine would have been shot, no benefit of the doubt would be given.
After careful consideration, after hearing the shouts of the other soldiers that they guy was faking and may be armed, when the Marine indeed saw the movement, he did what he was trained to do, protect himself and the others.
I support Bush, but I don't agree with any investigation whatsoever. What benefit of the doubt was given to Armstrong, Bigley, Hensley and Hassan?
If this Marine is prosecuted, I have a bad feeling about all the backlash that's gonna be happening from media sources such as Bill O'Reilly, who promises to use whatever clout he's got to see to it that this Marine is not prosecuted.
This has taken away so much attention from the real issue: the war itself. To question the actions of soldiers that are there for US is ludicrous to me.
Sites should have been told to go fuck off by the Marines, once they knew he was filming. As a matter of fact, I think reporters should be banned from the war zone, period. Unless they want to pick up a gun and join in.
Posted by: Laura at November 19, 2004 01:51 PM (ptOpl)
31
Laura:
There are rules in war. When you start ignoring them, you lower yourself to the level of those criminals who kidnap and murder civilians. And the U.S. HAS rules of engagement. YOU might not think there OUGHT to be rules in war, but that doesn't change the fact that there ARE.
Seriously, what was so difficult or jarring for the soldier to just capture this insurgent? The guy is fucking wounded! He's just lying there! Surround him and take him away! This insurgent might have provided some valuable info. Instead, he's dead, the Marine might do jail time, and it gives the whole campaign another black eye it doesn't need.
And what's with all the fucking nonsense in somehow trying to pin the blame onto the reporter? He was there doing his job, something the Marine wasn't. And if there's no reporters around, what makes you think shit like this won't surface anyways? Abu Ghraib ring a bell? No reporters there, and everyone knows about it.
I think (and please, correct me if I'm wrong) YOU're pissed off at the fact that the Marine did something wrong and the whole world knows about it. I mean, for people who have been trying to justify this war for months, saying that we are fighting criminals and an enemy who don't value human life the same way we do, an incident like this is pretty fucking sobering, don't you think?
Posted by: Venom at November 19, 2004 02:24 PM (dbxVM)
32
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit again. It's WAR man. Do the terrorists bastids follow any rules? Like how you're not supposed to hide in a place of worship?
I would think the soldiers are taught to use their best judgement with a situation such as this. This is not an episode of "Cops", where the officer would have to do everything necessary NOT to shoot the criminal.
As I've stated this same Marine was faced with the same situation just the day before and those same people waving white flags, dressed as civilians or Iraqi soldiers on the side of the Americans, are the very terrorists that would blow them all to smitherenes if they had half a chance. They would not give the same consideration we would. Shoot first, ask no questions later.
If the damned thing wasn't videotaped in the first place, we wouldn't even be arguing about it. I'm sure shit like this went on day in and day out in other wars.
Oh, and the marine should get a Silver Star. After all, John Kerry received one for doing the same thing the Marine did. In Viet Nam, he chased an enemy soldier around a hut, caught him, and shot him. No one investigated HIM.
Posted by: Laura at November 19, 2004 05:18 PM (ptOpl)
33
Hey, if Kerry did the same thing, I'm surprised that GWB et al haven't opened an investigation.
Look, you can cry in your cornflakes all you want, but the fact is that if this was as you wish it was, the Defense Department wouldn't be investigating. In fact, you practically imply that the soldier did something wrong when you say: "If the damned thing wasn't videotaped in the first place, we wouldn't even be arguing about it. I'm sure shit like this went on day in and day out in other wars."
Answer me this question: if the Marine did nothing wrong, WHY is he being investigated? You can't answer this can you, not with any proof anyways. Sure, you can come up with unsubstantiated THEORIES, but at the end of the day, it's your OPINION versus the RULES and LAWS that American soldiers are REQUIRED to follow in war.
Sure, soldiers are taught to use their best judgement. But, that doesn't mean that they're completely absolved if they're fucking idiots do something wrong. I use my best judgement when I walk into a bank - should I be forgiven if I decide on a whim to hold it up? Of course not. Sure, the situations are incredibly different, but we all have rules and laws governing ourselves. The army is one of the most regimented and disciplined organizations in the world. It's not some fucking circus where people have carte blanche to do what they want. There's rules, and you follow them - and if you don't, there's hell to pay. Which is what this poor Marine is realizing now. Hey, if the investigation decides that he's done nothing wrong, fine. BUT, the point here is that clearly he did something that was WAY out of the ordinary (with proof), so they're going to look into it.
AND, you can't call the terrorists animals claiming that they don't follow rules, and then in the next breath say that it's ok for coalition soldiers to go ahead and do the same thing. If the insurgents are animals for doing this, wouldn't the soldiers be, too? It's pretty hypocritical to try and say both.
Posted by: Venom at November 19, 2004 06:11 PM (dbxVM)
34
Yeah, but how come a video wasn't shown of this SAME Marine, who was hit with shit from an explosive another dirtbag threw his way, when he thought the bastid was unarmed? Same situation, different day. He "used his better judgement" that day and almost lost his life because he gave the shithead the benefit of the doubt.
No, but you don't see THAT video because there wasn't one. Why are you so hellbent on sticking up for the enemy? Could you be one?
Are you also one of the dopes that thinks this invasion of Iraq is an illegal one and that the soldiers deserve it because it's Bush's fault they were sent there?
You're just one of the bloggers on here that has nothing better to do than to try to argue their point, until it's a dead horse issue.
Case in point: I was slandered on another blog in here, and the idiot that couldn't win the debate finally resorted to sexist, vulgar and vile names and rantings because he couldn't get anyone to agree with him.
Don't turn into another COOQarUK from Bigley's blog. Better yet, hook up with him and you can both cry over how it's Bush's and Blair's fault this is all happening.
Nite.
Posted by: Laura at November 19, 2004 06:37 PM (ptOpl)
35
VENOM: I would rather be wrong just like them than see American soldiers die to keep from being like them. They are relying on more people thinking as you do. Gives them an advantage and costs American lives. I do not put much value on the lives of terrorists and insurgents that torture, bomb and behead innocent people. They are not worthy of equality in my mind. Just rabid animals that need destroying. Nothing more.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 20, 2004 08:07 PM (ydtpC)
36
Laura:
Could I be the enemy? Um, could you be a little more paranoid than you already are (I don't think so)? I see, if I disagree with your (misguided) opinion, I must be the enemy. I guess if anyone ever disagrees with you, they must be the enemy. Why do you equate this with support for troops in Iraq? We're talking about what might be an illegal killing. Of course it's getting a lot of attention, because it's been recorded what might be a VIOLATION of U.S. RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. This is why the Defense Department is investigating. I'm sorry if you don't understand this, despite my repeated attempts to explain.
"You're just one of the bloggers on here that has nothing better to do than to try to argue their point, until it's a dead horse issue."
Pot, meet kettle.
Posted by: Venom at November 22, 2004 10:09 AM (dbxVM)
37
VEMON: KERRY LOST. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ACCEPT IT?
Posted by: greyrooster at November 22, 2004 04:31 PM (BFaxF)
38
greyrooster:
I accepted it on election night. In case you've forgotten already, I was never a Kerry supporter. I was also never a Bush supporter. My position the entire election campaign was of complete incredulity - as in, are these two best that America could come up with? If so, we're all in deep trouble.
Stop trying to draw the wrong conclusions.
Posted by: Venom at November 22, 2004 06:09 PM (dbxVM)
39
Venom=traitor
Posted by: Laura at November 22, 2004 08:08 PM (ptOpl)
40
Then why do you find fault with everything that America does? Everything Bush does? Everything pro American policy does.
No candidate, no stand, everything wrong. Shit man, call that living? What do you stand for besides and everybody wrong about every thing.
I usually can see what a poster stands for after reading one paragraph. I can't find anything you believe in or stand for except conplaining and taking the opposite side of everything.
As I said before, if someone says shit tastes bad you will take the other side.
Go back and read your past posts. Everything against. Nothing for. Is there anything you believe in besides retoric. Bored? in Jail? What is the problem?
I believe in America. I believe in my family. I believe in fishing. I believe in conservatism. I believe in the Marine Corps. In chocolate chip cookies. In beer. In chili. In Hooter's. Is there anything you believe in besides taking the opposite side of every fucking issue brought up? You've obviously got brains. But that doesn't mean you're not a nutcase. What a waste.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 22, 2004 10:32 PM (BFaxF)
41
Meh, Laura just hates me because I shoot down all her theories and she can't back up shit. Laura, please tell me how I'm a traitor. Because you said so? Ok, umm....you're a traitor! Yeah, um...because *I* said so! Pretty rational argument, huh? Maybe you shouldn't drink when you're on the computer?
greyrooster: lol, you know, I think we actually have a lot of similar interests, but that's besides the point. This is a forum which appears to be about debating the GWOT, whatever that's become. I fully supported the war in Afghanistan, because it made sense. America is attacked, so the country harboring those terrorists gets attacked. I see nothing wrong with that.
This war...I'm still trying to find a validity to it. And, so I have to question it. It's not unpatriotic to sometimes question the decisions that are being made. This isn't a police state. When you have a war, whose pretense was ridding a threatening country (who weren't threatening, btw) of its WMDs (which didn't exist, despite all the detailed testimony by Rice, Cheney, Powell about types, sizes, numbers), and then there aren't any, I have to question the motives. When a president presides over one of the most stagnant economies in recent memory, and then claims the economy is "just fine," I have to question his sincerity. When a president has 9/11 happen on his watch, and then initally refuses to establish the Department of Homeland Security, I have to question his ability to keep America safe. Frankly, it's been one of the most disappointing presidencies that I can recall. And, when I hear this bullshit about some kind of Muslim conspiracy that they all want to kill us and blah blah blah, when evidence basically proves it's not true, then I have to voice my opinion. I think, grey, that you're using the correct terminology now: they're Islamofascists. It's not all Muslims, just those that want to impose their religion on the rest of the world. And it's being done by a pretty small fraction of those who practice the religion. In fact, they're acting more like criminals than Muslims. The fact that so many Muslim clerics have actually come out AGAINST the kidnappings and killings seems to get lost in all of this.
Anyhow, there are a LOT of things I do support, but these threads don't seem to be about talking about anything positive. It's all a bunch of bullshit rhetoric lambasting anything remotely critical of the Bush administration. Admit it, if ALL of the things I listed above happened during a Democrat's presidency, everyone here would be having a field day picking it apart. But, instead, everyone swallows this shit, smiles, and asks for more. Again, it's NOT UNPATRIOTIC to occasionally question what happens around you - and if it happens more frequently than occasionally, then so be it.
Posted by: Venom at November 23, 2004 09:41 AM (dbxVM)
42
Venom, this is NOT an open forum or free speech zone. It is a personal blog set up by an individual. If you don't agree with the blogmaster's material or the bloggers that are posting, you don't have to come on here. Simple as that.
You find a blog where similar, terrorist loving, bleeding heart liberals post.
Theories, you say? What theories? I call it as I see it. I have people I lost on 9/11, and know some young soldiers over in Iraq fighting for the freedom for YOU to post your SHIT.
Right, wrong indifferent, we support our leader, or he wouldn't have been voted for another term, if so many people supposedly hate him. Thank God people like you are in the minority.
Reporters have no business in a war zone. They should have had their cameras smashed to the ground by the Marines.
Posted by: Laura at November 23, 2004 12:23 PM (ptOpl)
43
Laura, I get the feeling that you don't consider any forum you participate in a "free speech zone." Sure, it's Rusty's blog, but you're grasping at straws here. If you don't like my opinion, then fuck you. I'm not doing it for your approval. Frankly, you're without a doubt one of the most dimwitted people I've ever met, either in cyberspace or real life. You have no fucking grasp on reality and no ability to engage in a debate. You make these wild accusations with no evidence to back up shit, and when you're called on it you accuse the other person of being a "terrorist loving, bleeding heart liberal." Tell me how I'm "terrorist loving," you ignorant halfwit. Because I have a different opinion than you? Because when things don't look right, I inquire rather than eat shit, smile, and ask for more? You may like the taste of shit, but I don't.
Posted by: Venom at November 23, 2004 01:25 PM (dbxVM)
44
Oh, and tell me how I'm a "bleeding heart liberal" while you're at it. Show me once where I've ever demonstrated this characteristic, outside of your own fantasy world, that is. Again, anyone who doesn't share your identical, fanatical viewpoint is "bleeding heart liberal." Give me a break. Being against a feeble-minded wannabe fascist like yourself doesn't make a person "liberal," only rational.
Posted by: Venom at November 23, 2004 01:51 PM (dbxVM)
45
Anyone that thinks an investigation is called for regarding the Marine who shot the enemy is truly anti-American.
Why won't you give the soldier the benefit of the doubt? These savages we were fighting don't deserve just treatment because they would just as soon shoot us and not ask any questions later. This war is like no other. The insurgents don't follow any Geneva convention rules.
The only reason there IS an investigation is because journalists like Sites stick their noses in where they don't belong. If they want to enter a war zone, they should be prepared to fight as well.
OUr government now is "forced" to do an investigation to "do the right thing" and not piss off any more insurgents or enemies who have seen the video on Al Jazeera and are even more riled up than before. I have seen Al Jazeera's site, and it it totally biased toward their own country. What else would explain why they continued to show the Marine footage over and over, while Hassan's video wasn't given a mention or shown at all?!
I can't understand these bloggers on here who continue to call me and others stupid, dimwitted, misinformed, ignorant, whatever, yet continue to argue right along.
If we weren't intelligent enough for you, why continue the discussions with us?
Posted by: Laura at November 24, 2004 06:44 PM (ptOpl)
46
"Anyone that thinks an investigation is called for regarding the Marine who shot the enemy is truly anti-American."
So, you're saying the Defense Department is anti-American, huh? Interesting.
"The insurgents don't follow any Geneva convention rules."
That's probably because they never signed it and aren't bound to follow the Geneva Convention. Actually, can you name me any Geneva Convention rules without having to use an Internet search engine?
"The only reason there IS an investigation is because journalists like Sites stick their noses in where they don't belong."
You mean because he was there doing his job? It was the army who allowed journalists to be embedded with U.S. troops. How is it that he's not supposed to be there when the military itself created the rules?
"I have seen Al Jazeera's site, and it it totally biased toward their own country."
What country is that?
"What else would explain why they continued to show the Marine footage over and over, while Hassan's video wasn't given a mention or shown at all?!"
Al-Jazeera has shown numerous captures of other hostages being killed. Have you forgotten this already? Also, if you actually HAD been on Al-Jazeera's site in the past, you'd probably know this. But, like everything else you write, you're just making shit up.
"If we weren't intelligent enough for you, why continue the discussions with us?"
I dunno. Partly out of my own amusement, partly because it's so easy to shoot down everything you write. And I call 'em like I see 'em, unlike you who would never question anything. Seriously, passing off opinions as if they were fact isn't exactly the best way to get someone to believe you, and makes it that much harder when questioned about it.
Posted by: Venom at November 30, 2004 01:00 PM (dbxVM)
47
kick a baby vole
Posted by: pilot at June 01, 2005 07:21 AM (GiTkz)
Religion of Peace Roundup
Little time, mucho headlines.
Dutch intelligence officer arrested, suspected links to Van Gogh murder.
High explosives found on Bangladeshi train linked to jihadis.
Pics of that Sarin nerve gas found in Iraq that we reported here.
Hassan's husband begs terrorists for her body.
more...
Posted by: Rusty at
02:30 PM
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Post contains 214 words, total size 3 kb.
Zarqawi Claims Control Over Sunni Triangle
Evan Kohlman's Global Terror Alert brings the news that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's al Qaeda in Iraq (formerly Tawhid and Jihad) claims it controls the Sunni triangle. Yes folks, there are no Marines in Fallujah! You are not seeing what you think you are seeing. According to Evan Kohlnman's translation of the Zarqawi communique found here: The US only controls parts of Fallujah and Baqubah; Ramadi and Mosul are completely under the control of jihadi forces; the jihadis continue to thwart Coalition efforts in the rest of the Sunni triangle, including Baghdad.
To what extent the terrorists control the streets is unknown to me. Certainly yesterdays PR nightmare will not help.
Posted by: Rusty at
10:56 AM
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Post contains 122 words, total size 1 kb.
1
You know, I am into "admissions". I have no problem admitting my faults and mistakes. So in that light, I'm going to admit that I have control over the Bering Sea Rectangle and have carried out beheadings myself.
Posted by: Editor at November 17, 2004 11:59 AM (adpJH)
2
Well at least we know who the Iraqi Information Minister is working for now.
Posted by: Digger at November 17, 2004 12:53 PM (FYEx6)
3
All your fisheads are belongs to us!!
Posted by: Rusty at November 17, 2004 01:01 PM (JQjhA)
4
Well, it's more accurate to say:
ALL you fishmeal are belongs to us!!!
You see, after the beheadings are coducted, they are put into the grinder and turned into fertilizer. Western beheaders are much more efficient than their islamofacist counterparts.
Posted by: Editor at November 17, 2004 01:41 PM (adpJH)
5
Is Bagdad Bob now at NBC!
Posted by: Rod Stanton at November 17, 2004 02:37 PM (a2hGw)
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Matt Bing :The raghead in disguise will use this reliable info to further his tirades against all who don't believe Bin Laden is God.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 05:02 PM (Id1ho)
List of Hostages Killed in Iraq
As many of my long-time readers know, I had been keeping what I think was the most accurate accounting of hostages murdered in the name of Islam. The reason I stopped updating that list was because the terrorist scumbags began to murder en masse and I just couldn't keep up. Further, I wanted the names of each hostage to be included in that list. As groups such as Ansar al-Sunnah began to kill dozens of hostages at a time this became impossible.
Below you will find a list of foreign hostages killed in Iraq from AFP as reported in Turkish Press. I do not believe the list is complete, but it is a start. Let us never forget the victims of an ideology that justifies the calculated murder of innocents. more...
Posted by: Rusty at
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Rusty, what about Daniel Pearl and Paul Johnston?
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 08:41 AM (ptOpl)
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Yeah, this is a list of those killed in IRAQ. Pearl was killed in Pakistan and Paul Johnson in Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Rusty at November 17, 2004 08:47 AM (JQjhA)
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OH, okay.
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 09:41 AM (ptOpl)
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May all those listed above, as well as all those killed by Islamofascists the world over, slumber forever in eternal peace with God.
May God reign down death and destruction on those that perpetrated these murders, as well as on all those that support them. Including their families, governments that provide refuge and arms, and liberals.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 11:50 AM (AEjRy)
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But Mathews at NBC said yesterday and I quote "*THESE ARE NOT BAD GUYS!*" My emphasis.
Rod Stanton
Cerritos
Posted by: Rod Stanton at November 17, 2004 02:41 PM (a2hGw)
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"There is no limit to human cruelty."
Posted by: Zeferis at November 19, 2004 10:11 AM (4P4ga)
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Does anyone have information about Truck Drivers, Dinesh Rajaratnam from Sri Lanka and Abul Kashem Faruk from Bangladesh who were abducted by Ansar Al-Sunnah near Baghdad International Airport in late October? A video from the group was aired by Al-Jazeera Television on October 28 2004.
Posted by: Ranjit J Perera at November 30, 2004 12:06 AM (KoDmQ)
November 16, 2004
Margaret Hassan Murdered on Video (UPDATED)
The terrorists have murdered Margaret Hassan, a woman who spent the majority of her life trying to help innocent Iraqis. Although I believe the organization she worked for was politically misguided, no one can question Margaret Hassan's motives. Rest In Peace. I will post images from the video when available. Why? You think you are outraged at the terrorists now, wait until you see the utter depravity of their actions. Watch one of these videos or see images from them and then try to equivocate between us and them. Developing....
The terrorists have murdered Margaret Hassan, a woman who spent the majority of her life trying to help innocent Iraqis. Although I believe the organization she worked for was politically misguided, no one can question Margaret Hassan's motives. Rest In Peace. I will post images from the video when available. Why? You think you are outraged at the terrorists now, wait until you see the utter depravity of their actions. Watch one of these videos or see images from them and then try to equivocate between us and them. Developing....The British embassy in Baghdad confirmed on Tuesday that a video tape had surfaced appearing to show the killing of kidnapped British-Iraqi aid worker Margaret Hassan, and said it was probably genuine.UPDATE: The terrorists have taken to dressing their victims in the garb of Abu Ghraib prisoners. While Mrs. Hassan was probably murdered some days ago, I no longer think the appearence of the video and the announcement of another Abu Ghraib like scandal coming on the same day is a coincidence. The terrorists wish to convince the Muslim world that what they are doing is an eye for an eye. The repurcussions from Kevin Sikes' video showing an American Marine killing an unarmed man have already begun. Fox News:"We can confirm there is a tape that appears to show Margaret's murder," an embassy official told Reuters. "We believe it is probably genuine."
The video shows a militant firing a pistol into the head of a blindfolded woman wearing an orange jumpsuit
UPDATE II: Lady Bird drops a comment letting us know that Margaret Hassan was her teacher. She has an amazing post of her own. It's a fitting tribute to Mrs. Hassan.
UPDATE III: You may donate to CARE International in Margaret Hassan's name here.
I should have knocked on wood after that earlier post. Thanks to Chad, Straight Banana, and others who notified me. more...
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If reports comming out of Iraq are correct that Margaret Hassan was shot in the head on video and then as a final insult to her memory mutilated and quartered, it takes these ragheads acts of depravity to new heights.
It is indeed a sad day when one so dedicated to the care of the suffering is met with such an appalling end.
Posted by: sopotamia at November 16, 2004 12:41 PM (KdJpi)
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Dear Jesus, you don't think the video's going to show all that? What was the reasoning for not showing the other one, deemed too graphic because they had to throw water on her because she fainted?
Does not make any sense.
RIP Margaret, I hope your death is not in vain. What a horrible ending to someone who was so dedicated to the Iraqi people. How senseless.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 12:43 PM (ptOpl)
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Poor, poor Margaret, you were such a good woman, Iraq is now a much a much sadder place without your love and many years of support. May your killers die slowly, in screaming agony, videoed for all the world to repeatedly gloat over.
Posted by: Dotty at November 16, 2004 01:28 PM (siFAl)
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The brave Marine that sent the Islamofascist cocksucker to his well deserved death in a mosque in Fallujah gets us on our way to being close to even for this newest act by the incarnations of Satan here on Earth.
I mean really, is there any doubt that these animals need to be put out of our misery? I am not a fundamentalist religious nut, but America needs to wake up, especially the "Blue State" Americans that think it is ok to show US Marines in combat on TV (cause we are bad), but not this video (cause it's too graphic). The people that think that we are dealing with people that can be talked to or hugged into submission are living on another planet.
We need to start killing more of these animals. That brave Marine was doing what he needed to do; putting down one of these animals. Glad I am in the military. Glad to be one of the ones getting the opportunity to kill these animals.
God Bless you Margaret. May you rest in peace. We will be visiting a vile, painful, well deserved death upon your killers very soon.
Posted by: David at November 16, 2004 01:29 PM (xfI1/)
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Sapotamia,
If the reports are correct, the body found in Fallujah that was mutilated was not Hassan. The body found in Fallujah had her throat cut. Hassan was shot in the back of her head.
Of course both of these are bad, but I fear there may be yet another video coming out soon with the death of the Polish woman.
Posted by: Chad Evans at November 16, 2004 01:40 PM (O8//2)
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Behaviour breeds behaviour. Don't you American burgermunchin' lard-asses realise that blatant
force will be met with whatever low-life tactics the islamic fundamentalists can think of in their sick warped minds? Do you really expect these people to accept the bombing of their mosques, children & cities...my guess is they feel just the same as you all felt after 9/11! if American foreign policy wasnt so blatantly pro-israeli, and was more balanced, none of this shit would be going on. Blair hinted this week in a speech that he is trying to make Bush realise that force is not always the best option. Blair is standing "shoulder to shoulder" with Bush as he has the weight of the historical ties between the UK & US to consider: it would "look bad" if we (the UK) didnt do what we have done throughout recent history. The reality is that the majority of people in the UK do not support the action in Iraq, a lot of people in the world don't agree with America's unilateral approach to the war on terror: America may well be the world's most powerful nation, but the way in which it forces its influence throughout the world (frequently against the judgement & will of people more closely involved) is not always appeciated, and sometimes resented, hence we have people being beheaded in iraq. If the islamic fundamentalists had a comparably trained and equipped army, i'm sure we would see a war in iraq being fought along more conventional lines, as it is, the militants are adopting horrific shock tactics, as they feel they have no other options. I really hope Bush listens to Blair on the Israel/Palestine issue - it's the key - and this whole sorry mess will only be eventually sorted out via diplomacy, not rockets & guns.
RIP Margaret.
Posted by: Brad loveburger III at November 16, 2004 02:08 PM (SgQqe)
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Possibly Chad, or it might have been an Iraqi woman who had dyed her hair. If you look at what the terrorists were doing in Fallujah they were trying to institute a Taliban like regime. A regime that would kill you if you appeared too Western. Either way, very sad.
Posted by: Rusty at November 16, 2004 02:08 PM (JQjhA)
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David...I have just read your comment, you are totally out of order with your views on these people being animals. Please give animals some respect. You cannot compare this filth with animals.
Posted by: Rodders at November 16, 2004 02:25 PM (L2A8m)
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Rodders:
I apologize to animals.
I just apologized to my 2 dogs. They took it the way I thought that they would.
Fuck Osama and all that align with them.
Posted by: David at November 16, 2004 02:36 PM (xfI1/)
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She was my teacher
Posted by: LadyBird at November 16, 2004 02:46 PM (5kitr)
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Chad my reasoning is with yours. First of all, I don't think the mutilated body they found was Hassan's either. Where I disagree, is that the body found had blonde hair. It could have also been possible that had it not, they still could've shot her then quartered the body and dumped it in the street.
Horrible, either way. Now, I see that a video released has her dressed in the typical orange jumpsuit, blindfolded, with a gun to her head. Hopefully, if the video is shown here, that is all we will see.
RIP, Margaret, your death will be avenged. Talk on the radio is about the Marine, who killed the unarmed man. Hopefully, this will all be over with in a few days. Why are they so quick to play up the actions of a US soldier and not the actions of these fucking bugs (I will not call them animals either).
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 02:47 PM (ptOpl)
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Brad Loveburger III:
Why don't you see if you can't talk to Osama or Zarquawi and get them to stop acting unilaterally by killing 3,000 Americans in New York or beheading innocent people who are trying to help them. Maybe we can get them to come to a summit so we can discuss our issues and work them out.
Maybe the UK understand that these Islamofascist cocksuckers want us, not just me, but you, everyone you know (whether you hate them or not) you dog, everyone that owes you money DEAD!!!! They don't care and the fact that you are fail to grasp the nature of the threat truly frightens me. We don't have to get permission to act in our own self defense.
Have you ever been in a fight? When the person you faced off against made their move and hit you, did you ask a friend what to do? Did you have a meeting with some friends and relatives to make up a plan of action? If your friends didn't want to come along, did you continue to let your adversary beat on you because you didn't want to make your friends not like you?
President Bush acted. He decided he didn't want to debate the fate or our country in a committee.
Posted by: David at November 16, 2004 02:56 PM (xfI1/)
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That's right, Brad. It's Bush's fault, it's Blair's fault. Why? For wanting to defend a country that was horribly attacked on 9/11, and before that? How long must we sit back and think about it before acting on it?
And don't tell me that there was NO connection bet. 9/1 and Iraq. Zarqawi trained under Al Qaeda. If it wasn't beheadings in Iraq, it would've been something else. Zarqawi has admitted allegiance to Osam and Al Qaeda. Maybe Bush's initial reasons for going into Iraq may not have been clear, but it was justified, none the less.
Burger eating, my ass! Fuck off and stay out of it, your terrorist loving piece of foreign shit.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 03:15 PM (ptOpl)
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And then when a wounded Marine kill a man who is either one of them or is fully suportive of them we are up in arms?!
Posted by: Rod Stanton at November 16, 2004 03:27 PM (a2hGw)
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My heart goes out to Margaret Hassans family and all that knew her. My deepest sympathy to all.
To "Brad loveBOOGER III in the UK: Curse you trying to lay the blame on all "American burgermunchin lard-asses" for the beheadings in the Arab nations. Your QUOTE: "hence we have people being beheaded in iraq."
The idiot ZarCOWARDwi, and others, are not from Iraq-FROM-Lebanon, Saudi and other places.THEY ARE INVADERS....
If you want to get down to it, your ancestry is right here with us "lard-asses". Some of that shame-shit runs thru my viens. It's a damn good thing that I am of a "hienz57" breed.
Posted by: owoju at November 16, 2004 03:30 PM (N4SKL)
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I want to express my deepest sympathies to the family of Margaret Hassan. From what IÂ’ve heard on T.V. and read about in the papers, she seemed like a good woman who had devoted her life to helping the poor in Iraq. She definitely did not deserve to die the way she did. May she sleep in eternal peace forever.
On the other hand, I wish nothing less then eternal damnation on those who destroyed this woman. May they and all those fighting to promote their atrocious views, die a horrible, painful, disgusting, bloody death at the hands of our “infidel” Marines, soldiers, airmen and naval personnel. May God spit on your souls as he casts you to hell and may your wives, mothers, fathers, children, brothers and sisters rot in festering piles of their own filth gnashing their teeth and weeping for your souls until they too burn in hell with you.
Posted by: John at November 16, 2004 03:30 PM (AEjRy)
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I want to express my deepest sympathies to the family of Margaret Hassan. From what IÂ’ve heard on T.V. and read about in the papers, she seemed like a good woman who had devoted her life to helping the poor in Iraq. She definitely did not deserve to die the way she did. May she sleep in eternal peace forever.
On the other hand, I wish nothing less then eternal damnation on those who destroyed this woman. May they and all those fighting to promote their atrocious views, die a horrible, painful, disgusting, bloody death at the hands of our “infidel” Marines, soldiers, airmen and naval personnel. May God spit on your souls as he casts you to hell and may your wives, mothers, fathers, children, brothers and sisters rot in festering piles of their own filth gnashing their teeth and weeping for your souls until they too burn in hell with you.
Posted by: John at November 16, 2004 03:31 PM (AEjRy)
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David, I understand your points, but even you must realise that Bush got his pound of flesh by invading Afghanistan & overthrowing the Taliban on the basis of their links with Al-Queda...was that enough? NO! Bush's (& Blair's) governments then go on to wage war with Iraq on the premise that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction ready to fire "within 45 minutes" (!!!) - they also maintained that links with Al-Queda were established. To date this has not been proved. What next ? IRAN? NORTH KOREA? WORLD WAR 3? Technically, Blair & Bush are war criminals. If the US had been invaded by a superior power on the basis that the superior power didnt like what the US was doing, and in the process killed a lot of innocent US civilians, dont you think that in a fair world the leaders of the misguided superior nation should be held accountable? It's probably a question you wouldnt be able to answer truthfully unless it was YOUR mother, YOUR wife or YOUR children dying in vain by a misguided enemy's weapons of blind fury. The same so-called US intelligence didnt see 9/11 coming.... But it's ok....I know what the US & UK should do! ...every time the intelligence agencies make a mistake and thousands of innocent civilians have been killed in the crossfire, our governments will just say sorry and everything will be ok then, won't it? What would YOU say to an innocent iraqi civilian who's just had his wife killed through no fault of his own except the unfortunate fact that they lived in the path of a machine gun bullet? "sorry, but we did it in the name of freedom????" Bullshit! the intelligence was way off the mark - you know it & the rest of the world knows it, which is why the international community (in the VAST majority) does not condone the very dangerous road Bush is going down...I will maintain that Bush's strong arm tactics will not dampen down arab fundamentalism...they will only fan the flames of hatred. A more balanced US foreign policy view on the Israeli/palestinian question might just do more to calm the whole situation down in my opinion.
Posted by: brad loveburger III at November 16, 2004 03:52 PM (SgQqe)
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The Marines and soldiers I see in the videos and on the news don't look like burger muching lard asses to me.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 03:59 PM (UkXdy)
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A Jordanian is not an Iraqi citizen....
Posted by: owoju at November 16, 2004 04:19 PM (N4SKL)
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Brad
C'Mon man. Really, I am a soldier who has had to do this for a living, and I have some of my soldiers overseas right now. I can without a doubt guarantee you that we are NOT killing civilians, period. These murdering cocksuckers that the MSM are calling "freedom fighters" are. When they hide in mosques and shoot at us, what should we do? Ignore them, let them kill us until they run out of bullets and then surrender? When they shield themselves behind women and children, what should we do Brad? Give me the benefit of your insight.
You are saying that now that we kicked the ass of the Taliban that we should have said "well, we wil just trust that Saddam won't give weapons that he may or may not have to people who want to kill us." This isn't about one man, one country, or one group. It is about the fact that Wahabbism is seeking the destruction of anyone that does not convert or is from the West. Saddam's minions and Zarquawi's pals needed killing, and if the people could have rose up themselves then they would have. Would you like to have Saddam killing his own people again? Some Children's prisons? How about secret police making midnight visits? Hindsight is 20/20 Brad.
IRAN, NORTH KOREA, WORLD WAR 3? If you haven't noticed, these filthy bastards killed 3,000 people in a BLUE STATE!!!! Do you believe that people that do this need killed? I say we go to North Korea and kill those true believing freedom hating communists so that the people of North Korea can have FOOD!!!! If not that, how about we just ignore Iran and let them give a nuke to and Arab terrorist so they can come to a town near you and light that sucker off near your friends and family.
Bad intel? Hell yes that happens. The Psychic Friends network isn't in the same building as the CIA or MI5. The "slam dunk" on WMD assessment came from George Tenet, the director appointed by Clinton. Seems he may have believed some of the reports that he got from EVERY MAJOR INTELLIGENCE SERVICE in the Western World. The reason that the rest of the world (ie France and Germany) didn't want to come along was that they were not or friend and were stabbing us in the back.
The "balance" that the Arabs are seeking on Middle East peace is the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the jews. Is that the balance you seek?
We can't put ourselves in their shoes because we have lived in freedom for over 200 years and we don't allow tyrants to rule here. We threw out the tyrants about 200 years ago.
Posted by: David at November 16, 2004 04:48 PM (xfI1/)
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In spite of the reports that fallujah is for the most part
secured the email I got within the last hour suggests the town
is still pretty damned hellish.Ragheads are still popping up out
of knowwhere.What they havent quite sussed out yet is that shouting Allah U Achbar gets you an immediate bullet between your eyes
no questions asked.For some unknown reason these ragheads just keep
repeating this behavior, they seem too dumb to understand the sooner they shout those words the soonern they'l undrstand that right now theres only one messenger of god and hes wearing a U.S. Marine Corps badge. Go marines,your time is nigh!!!
Posted by: wekno at November 16, 2004 05:07 PM (I7lx1)
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Blame Bush for the invasion of Iraq, yet lib's blame him for 9/11 too, because he failed to listen to warnings. And what if he did listen and invaded Afghanistan in the hopes of finding Osama, without the twin towers being attacked? Then what? Then the lib's would've said we illegally invaded THAT country!
The blame never fucking ends! I can't stand it!
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 05:07 PM (ptOpl)
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Blame Bush for the invasion of Iraq, yet lib's blame him for 9/11 too, because he failed to listen to warnings. And what if he did listen and invaded Afghanistan in the hopes of finding Osama, without the twin towers being attacked? Then what? Then the lib's would've said we illegally invaded THAT country!
The blame never fucking ends! I can't stand it!
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 05:07 PM (ptOpl)
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Sorry website was slow, I posted that twice. I heard the video can be seen at www.silentscream.org or .com, not sure which one.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 05:10 PM (ptOpl)
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In spite of the reports that fallujah is for the most part
secured the email I got within the last hour suggests the town
is still pretty damned hellish.Ragheads are still popping up out
of nowhere.What they havent quite sussed out yet is that shouting Allah U Achbar gets you an immediate bullet between your eyes
no questions asked.For some unknown reason these ragheads just keep
repeating this behavior, they seem too dumb to understand the sooner they shout those words the soonern they'l get to the understanding that right now theres only one messenger of god and hes wearing a U.S. Marine Corps badge. Go marines, get some,your time is nigh!!!
Posted by: wekno at November 16, 2004 05:11 PM (I7lx1)
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REPORT THAT YOU WILL NOT GET FROM CNN
Special forces are tracking these sons of bitches
not just on the roads out of Fallujah but in the dirt planes between.Mossads intelligence is proving invaluable,remember lots of Iraqi Jewry were thrown out of Iraq, though you wont here that on CNN,it would not be politicaly correct
nor appreciated,political correcters dont tend to like dynamite, nor does King Saud,tends to give them swetty palms and sleepless nights,we wouldnt want that now would we.
Posted by: wekno at November 16, 2004 05:31 PM (I7lx1)
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Quote Burger Brad
[[ >> What next? IRAN? NORTH KOREA? WORLD WAR 3?<< ]]
You base your above preamble on what exactly?
...Exactly my friend, because they are dangerwiss.
Anyway, next it should be the Faroe Islands, Papa New Guniea and Manchester.
These places are a threat to the world because they play shit football (soccer)...
You patronise yourself and should stand by your convictions by moving to Iran or N.Korea.
They do great Taekwondo lessons there. Ask for master Rhee, tell him QPR Jon sent you.
Peace.
Posted by: qpr Jon at November 16, 2004 05:47 PM (0LopU)
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Perhaps the palestinians should throw out their tyrants too.
Posted by: skippy at November 16, 2004 05:56 PM (ye2RC)
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David,
Firstly, I would like to say that I wish you and your men well in the perilious ongoing situation in Iraq.
Taking your points, firstly, I have no doubt that despite some aspects of the media trying to persuade us to think otherwise, I have no doubt that the current US/UK force in Iraq are not killing Iraqi civilians deliberately. But it remains a fact that thousands of Iraqis (more than the fatalities of 9/11) have died needlessly. Through absolutely no fault of their own.
I understand your point about the "underhand" tactics that the insurgents are using, i.e. hiding in mosques, but they are outnumbered by a vastly superior fighting force, fighting on whilst knowing if they are captured alive it means deportation to Guantanamo Bay for some (ethically questionable) interrogation techniques....so, whilst not condoning their -some would say cowardly- fighting tactics , I can understand them, when faced with such a stark choice. What would I do in your position? Not be in Iraq in the first place.
Hans Blix asked for more time, he should have got it & as for hindsight, I can say that hand on heart, that was my opinion 18 months ago, before the shit hit the fan. No war should have been waged without HARD evidence. Don't tell me the justification for the war was to stop Hussein killing his own people....The US would have intervened well before now if that was the case. Like after the liberation of Kuwait in '91. Also, I didn't see the US intervening in Rwanda (in the 90's) & or Zimbabwe (now) on that basis....
Let me make it quite clear here that I'm no Saddam fan, but you cannot go invading countries on the off chance that they "may" have WMD, only to find out after a LOT of innocent deaths that the mandate for war was incorrect. Like I say, on this basis where will it end? , are you gonna invade Iran next?!!! more innocent deaths, more moderate muslims turning into fundamentalists, creating more potential Al-zarquawi's and Bin-ladens !!!
Do I seek a middle east solution that involves the eradication of the jewish state ? No, but I believe the Palestinians have the right to a neighbouring homeland. Is that so wrong?
Sort that out through DIPLOMACY, not aggression, and you help disinguish the fuel & the hatred that the fundamentalists need to survive.
Posted by: Brad Loveburger III at November 16, 2004 06:13 PM (SgQqe)
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"These places are a threat to the world because they play shit football (soccer)..."
Are you people whacked or what? Margaret Hassan was shot in the head as retaliation for killing a poor unarmed soul by these marines. Put yourself in their shoes.
Posted by: skippy at November 16, 2004 06:24 PM (ye2RC)
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BRAD LOVEBURGER 111 IS A FAKE.
Can't believe some people falling for it again.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 06:32 PM (UkXdy)
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Brad Burger...here we go again! he's not even a burger...where's the beef?
Fuck all you people who are against the "illegal invasion" of Iraq. NO HARD EVIDENCE. Holy Shit, what is this, the Scot Peterson case?!
If the President and Congress had reason to believe that iraq, or any other country for that matter, was a threat to the US, then as Americans, we have to stand by our leader. That's why we VOTED for him. And that's why we VOTED for him AGAIN.
Seems most of the anti-war assholes are foreign jobbers, maybe their country's there too, but they just love bashing the American president.
Fuck you and stick your thoughts where the sun don't shine. I'm sick of you fakes.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 06:51 PM (ptOpl)
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Falling for what? A hyperbolic comment? The
US not intervening in Rwanda (in the 90's) & or Zimbabwe (now) It will never happen as there is no oil interests. I think you will find that unless there is a high profile American hostage or crude oil involved- Bush will keep his dick in his pants from now on. His knuckle dragging, chest thumping is quite predictable. Fallujah is a grandstand joke.
Posted by: skippy at November 16, 2004 07:02 PM (ye2RC)
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I don't know the citizenship of this lady. If I remember she was a Brit married to an Iraqi?
She helped feed their hungry.
She helped cure their sick.
She was against American led invasion of Iraq.
She stayed in a danger zone to help the wounded.
Her reward was days of horrible fear during captivity.
Finally slaughtering and dismembering her.
What she had to do with America I don't know.
After her death some mental midget says she was killed because a Marine killed an insurgent fighting against his own government. But she was taken hostage long before. Oh sure. They were just fucking with her to have fun.
There's a lesson here. It doesn't matter who you are or what religion you are. ISLAMOFACISTS will kill anyone for the sake of killing. This is their chosen occupation. Beats working for a living. If the war stopped now and all troops left Iraq they still would not stop the killing. They would have to find or create another battle field. They do it in the name of religion and people listen to this shit. If a Sunni muslim had a brain he would beg for US occupation when the Shia take over. That is really why they are fighting this battle. To prevent a Shia government that will treat them like they were treated. These people are like rabid dogs. Put them to sleep for the safety of the rest of the world. Instead of crying when a soldier kills one he should get a bonus.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 07:22 PM (UkXdy)
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Hoohah (A.Pacino)
Posted by: qpr jon at November 16, 2004 07:28 PM (0LopU)
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Equally ludicrous to blame the "illegal invasion" of Iraq for Hassan's death as well.
She was against the invasion, therefore, she should have been depicted as an ally.
She helped their people.
She lived there for over 30 years.
She had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any of this.
In conclusion, the terrorists are killing for the sake of killing. Don't blame Bush.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 07:37 PM (ptOpl)
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After reading this whole thread, I can't but express my agreement with Brad. We non-americans truly are on the other side of the fence. Many of us cannot understand what we perceive as American self-righteousness. I try to, but it's hard, and I believe they find it just as hard to understand us. It's sad, but I think this is where the limits of human communication show most clearly. No amount of evidence of the terrible wrongdoings of US foreign policy in the world will ever convince them, just as no amount of well-doing (which also exists) by the US will convince us. Never mind the fact that we too hate terrorism. Never mind the fact that we also cringe in disgust and sadness when we see people beheaded. This is not enough for them: we also have to accept the US's killing frenzy as some sort of salvation. Sad... I'm really depressed by both pieces of news today. The world is going to hell and we can't trust ANY of our governments to save us.
Posted by: brunilda at November 16, 2004 08:22 PM (v21yJ)
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brunilda: Geez I wish I could stand in the middle and blame the government. We are the government. Just who started the killing. Killing frenzy? We're not even pissed off yet. You say you hate terrorism. You say you cringe in disgust and sadness at the beheadings. Then do something about it. America is. Terrorists will not stop because of your whineing. They feed on fear. Show your fear, show your mistrust for your government. When you do there are fanatics looking and your post nodding and saying to each other IT'S WORKING!!
Problem with democratic way. Brave people 1 vote.
Others 1 vote.
America: The country that pays the bills.
America: The country that does the fighting.
Not excluding our wonderful allies.
After victory, I only hope America remembers who counts.
Those without the courage to stand up. Should shut up.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 10:42 PM (YpcV2)
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How short our memories are. While seeking diplomatic solutions, the USA has endured the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebannon, the bombing of the USS Cole, not to mention the embassy hostage situation of the 70's. All these and many more acts against the USA were at the hands of the radical Muslims. This has been going on for nearly 40 years. I don't understand how many attacks we have to withstand before the world understands that we are sick and tired of it. 9/11 was the biggest attack and it was an attack on our homeland. All these attacks were attacks on everything we believe in, which is exactly what they were intended to be.
Much like how Hitler hated Jews, Muslims hate Americans. We have learned that but much of the rest of the world hasn't. I guess it's been long enough since Europe was under attack in WWII for you to remember how it feels. We have been enduring this for almost 40 years. We have only thrown a punch now and then during that time and 9/11 showed us things were out of control. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, we could have taken your attitude and said, we'll take care of the Japs but Europe and England will have to fight their own fight. We didn't do that. We came to the defense of Europe and put Hitler where he belonged.
You can blame whoever you want for all of it, but there is no way any one man could have stopped it. So blaming Bush or Blair or whoever might make you feel better, but it's not more their fault than it is yours or mine.
It is time that the rest of the world understand that the USA will not continue to give and give and give freely to all who need it all over the world, and then turn the other cheek every time an Osma Bin Laden or any other religious fanatic throws a bomb at us. Peace is a wonderful thing. It's a shame the religious fanatics that hate us so much don't realize that. We'd be the first to welcome an end to all fighting. But we will no longer turn and walk away from this bully who will not leave us alone. Sadam was a real threat to the US. Anyone who doesn't believe that evidently never saw how badly he hated the USA for kicking his butt out of Kuwait. He even tried to have our president assasinated.
Any person with that much hate in them is beyond negotiating or talking. They are evil and there is only one way to deal with them. Just think, you might be next on their list. Conforting thought isn't it???????
Posted by: Mona at November 16, 2004 11:01 PM (5aJBY)
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Greyrooster and Mona,
We don't seem to be talking about the same country. I am from Latin America. Your memories are short of the atrocities commited in that continent in the name of democracy and -yes- free market.
The US is not doing anything against "terrorism" in Iraq. It is only defending its interests. Terrorism is also when your country imposes its will on weaker ones. I will never forget Terence Todman in the 90's who was your ambassador in my home country, Argentina. Your government was pushing for us to pass a law that would benefit your pharmaceutical corporations. The House balked - for once. Your ambassador had the nerve to come out on TV and say "if you don't pass this law, we'll take economic measures against you." How do you think that makes people from other countries feel? You certainly are spreading democracy that way, sure. Do I have to mention Chile, where a perfectly democratically elected government was overthrown (9/11/1973) by a CIA-backed and funded coup that left thousands of people missing? Do I have to remind you of the US involvement in Cambodia, for instance? What about the latest US support for "regime change" in Venezuela? Isn't that a democratic government and should be respected as such? Have you even stopped for a second to think why anti-Americanism is so rife? Or have you bought wholesale that bullshit about how other countries envy you? We don't envy Norway, and believe me, there is a lot of freedom and economic viability to be envied there...
The truth is, citizens of other countries cannot trust the US to defend them. You have a great democracy... within your frontiers. Yet a lot of the time you spread misery and violence to other parts of the world, and that is WHY people don't like the US. You talk about your government as if it was this beacon of light and liberty... for you Americans. The rest of the world can go to hell.
Mona mentions how much the US has endured while diplomatic solutions were sought. How much have our brothers in Latin America endured? How destructive have the US' economic policies been for our countries? Are you not counting that, Mona? Is that not suffering?
Greyrooster:
>America: The country that pays the bills.
>America: The country that does the fighting.
Your country never paid the bills for its incursions in Latin American politics. Nor have they paid the bill for the oil they plunder in the Middle East, taking up where the Brits and French left. The "something about it" that you need to do is being part of the solution, not part of the problem as you currently are. Why don't you get a little more informed about the history of US foreign policy? Are you going to tell me that you treat other countries fairly? Give me a break.
And I don't whine, it's just that the whole rationale for this war is so twisted. Despite Laura's not wanting to hear this, Iraq - Al Qaida, sorry didn't happen. And people from both parties came to that conclusion, so that doesn't really qualify as an instance of "liberal spin". My strongest fear is that through this, Americans will only become more and more convinced that their way is THE way, never taking a step back to even try to understand the causes for things that happen. My stance against terrorism is first refraining from committing it myself, something that the US should certainly get better at.
As for the Middle East, most if not all of the regimes there are tyrannical and corrupt, so I have no sympathy for them. But some of them are friends with the US, so they are detested by their own people, but greeted as "moderate leaders" by the Americans. And the wheel keeps spinning.
I think my main point of contention is that you have a roseate view of your country and of your country's motivations, and that certainly does not stand the test of history.
I argue with you, and take pains to discuss and understand you and your positions because we are the government (as you Greyrooster so rightly say). We are responsible for being informed. We are responsible for not buying spin (like "everyone thought Iraq had WMD before the war, including the Europeans - yes, except that Colin Powell spoke at the UN on 2/21/2001 to say exactly the opposite and to convince everyone that the sanctions were working - you can see this at http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm). We are responsible for understanding, even in the face of such inhumane acts as beheadings. How good an idea do we have of what Al-Qaeda members really want? I suppose not much, given the filtering of information that the government and the media carry out. Or do you think that all governments use propaganda except yours?
So for all those reasons, I think scepticism and protest are very much needed. And Americans should also do a mea culpa from time to time.
Cheers, guys, great discussion
Posted by: brunilda at November 16, 2004 11:42 PM (v21yJ)
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Margaret Hussain is dead because of the invation of Iraq. FACT.
As are all the other hostages beheaded. In "liberating" a country the coalition forces have blood of innocents on their hands. If anyone thinks Saddam Hussain was going to attack America or had links with Al-queda they are sadly mistaken at best, totally deluded at worst.
Laura, I am beginning to think someone else is typing for you because you don't seem to have the intelligence to actually manage it yourself.
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 17, 2004 03:53 AM (ccz95)
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i just want to see the video of death of margaret hassan
Posted by: dei at November 17, 2004 03:57 AM (5JzcY)
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MATT BING: What towel head bugged you? And why did you like it so much? Matt Bing, another Sikes.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 05:49 AM (YV75d)
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Greyrooster, your head is so far up your own ass you can probably see George Bush's dick in your throat. How many times do you have to be told. Margeret Hussan was working perfectly well for a noble cause before this war. Would you like to tell her family that this is all justified? If it was my family I would be having serious words with good ol' G Bush and all his cronies.
How is everything so black and white to you - Good V Evil? This isn't some kind of comic where superheroes save mankind. This whole thing is a mess and George Bush has blood on his hands.
As for Dei, are you just a sick man or what?
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 17, 2004 06:18 AM (ccz95)
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Broomhilda: Spin and interpreation is a two way street. I wonder how many Argentines are on the waiting list to come to this horrible place. When you look at the past policies of another country perhaps you should look into the background of your own. As I've said before. Clean up your own act before sticking your nose into the business of others. We have a roseate view of ourselves because we cannot rely on others.
We make mistakes. We know it and get on with it.
Doer's always make errors. Do nots don't make mistakes. Safer to do nothing and snipe at people/nations that do. Which one are you? Which one is your country? I know, apparently, you don't.
What has your country done for the betterment of the world. Nothing. At least we try. Oh excuse me, I forget. You did supply a hiding place for nazis on the run from world justice.
As far as America blundering oil. You are a liar.
Every nation has people like you. I wonder why they learn the language of those they are so jealous of.
Sorry that we backed the Brits when Argentina invaded the Falklands. Sorry you got your asses kicked. But they were right, you were wrong.
The falklands had no WMD, no oil, no Ben Laden, no 9/11. At least America has reasons to invade. Argentina obviously doesn't.
If your country was a world leader, it would have people like you sniping at it. However, Argentina is not a world leader is it?
We are the big dog on the block. You are not. Therefore, you cannot understand the feeling you get when you have small dogs constantly barking at your heels. On occasion, you lose your cool and whip the shit out of one. If you don't wish to walk with the big dog my advice is don't be those barking at his heels. Saddam barked. The Taliban barked. Who's next?
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 06:44 AM (YV75d)
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OWOJU: That invader thing is a good point. I never thought of it in that context before. Zarquwi the Jordanian and his boys are just as foreign to Iraq as we are. Ben laden was a foreigner in Afghanistan as he is now in Pakistan. I understand there is more than a few french citizens fighting in Iraq.
Of course the real reason is what I've known for years. THIS IS A RELIGIOUS WAR. The fact that these fighters jump from country to country is proof of it. The country doesn't matter. Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq. doesn't matter. It will continue until ISLAM understands they cannot act this way. What will it take. Should we continue to lose our young men day to day. Or should we get it over with? I'm still undecided.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 06:58 AM (YV75d)
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Yeah sure. Bush killed the lady. Stupid comments like yours is why you don't count. Another little dog.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 07:15 AM (YV75d)
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I hate little dogs. They are nastier and sneakier than the big ones.
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 08:07 AM (ptOpl)
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BRUNILDA: HOW DOES IT FEEL? As I said before, it's like a rolling stone. It will keep rolling until it's flattened. Nice timing on your attack on America. Again, HOW DOES IN FEEL? Sort of gets you in the gut huh!. Don't feel so safe and smug anymore. American's have had that feeling for several years.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 09:12 AM (YV75d)
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For those that don't understand the revelance of my last post. Assholes have just blown up 3 banks in Argentina. Two citi-banks and another that I don't know name. No matter who they are, no matter what their cause. There is no excuse to behave like animals.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 09:17 AM (YV75d)
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Greyrooster,
Thank you for your comments. I tried not to denigrate your country (or you), and I think I didn't. In my first posting I said that there was good things done by it, but they were also matched by bad things. I don't demonize your country or your government: it's just not the paradise of liberty you depict. And when it makes mistakes it should recognize it. Mind you the invasion of Iraq was no mistake. It was the result of a carefully planned strategy. Well, maybe not so carefully.
As for how it feels to be bombed: it's nothing compared with the 30000 who disappeared between 76 and 83, and we had already had two bombings in the 90's. So I think we actually have seen worse.
As for the reasons to invade the Falklands vs. the reasons to invade Iraq: the Falklands ARE argentinian. They were occupied in 1833 by Britain. If you take a map, you'll see where they are located and then maybe you can tell me what kind of claim Britain can have over that territory. We should have never gone to war in 82, but we did not lack reasons to do it. So that is a completely irrelevant point
As for why I learnt your language: To be able to talk to you, believe it or not. And my wife is American.
And I've looked soooo long at my own government's policies, except that was Argentina does or doesn't only affects Argentinians. We give our opinion of your country because your country makes its deeds everyone's business. You can't make the entire world your playground and then expect people to shut up and not criticize you.
>If your country was a world leader, it would have people like you sniping at it
Absolutely. That is an obvious point. You don't get to play leader unless you step on other people's heads.
As for what my country did or didn't do for the betterment of the world, I would like to know how you measure that. My country also didn't do anything to ruin it. Does that count? We simply don't have the power. We're a small country compared to the US, you might as well complain about the several hundred other countries that "don't do anything for the betterment of the world." Believe me, I know that we couldn't be trusted if we were in power (after all, our governments suck big time!), but that's a realization you seem not to have come to yet with respect to your own country.
So you didn't address any of my points, really. The US does more damage than it does good (although it does some good) And that is the issue here. That comes as a freebie when you are in power: in order to maintain it, you have to kick butt and take names. And that's what the US does so well.
Cheers, bring'em on ;-)
Posted by: brunilda at November 17, 2004 09:53 AM (v21yJ)
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Sorry, here I go again. I just wanted to go read some more on the bombings.
I forgot to ask you, Greyrooster, to comment on how all the points I raised in the posting before the last one (Chile, Cambodia, Venezuela, etc.) help better the world.
Thanks
Posted by: brunilda at November 17, 2004 09:55 AM (v21yJ)
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Greyrooster and Laura, this dog has a reason to want to bark.
I'd just like to say that I have had direct exposure to terrorism. In the eighties and nineties I lived and worked in London. I was just one hundred yards away when the Harrrods bombe exploded and suffered glass cuts to my face and head. I also swa bits of victims all over the street. I also fitted a shop in which we slept while we worked there and the day afer we left it was blown up killing several civillians. We were told the bomb was probably planted whilst we were in there. I also, along with millions, suffered the daily disruption at the hands of the IRA and we often walked around in fear. I personally rang the police twice to report suspicious packages - thankfully both were not bombs.
Let me get this straight - TERRORISM is not some kind of joke. The IRA are probably not as bad as Al-queda and their ilk but did not baulk at killing soldiers, policemen in front of their families, politicians, royalty, civillians and children. They saw themselves as crusaders, not terrorists, as soldiers who deserved to be treated with the same rules as British Soldiers. Over time their practices grew ever more viscious and murdurous. Once Margaret Thatcher had utterly failed with her "shoot to kill" policy - a policy which saw IRA numbers rise by a 1000%, incidently - British Governments realised that dialogue was the only way forward. Over time dialogue has changed the very face of the Northern Ireland issue and the fanatics among the IRA have been compltely marginalised. Talking with all terrorists is not possible but there must be found a way or we will never be rid of them by simply trying to wipe them out. It doesn't work and never will.
Oh, as an aside, the IRA recieved almost all of their funds from supporters from the US.
Posted by: Matt Bing at November 17, 2004 10:07 AM (ccz95)
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Haha, I caught myself committing the sin of Hyperbole. Instead of several hundred other countries I should've written "several dozen". There are only 193 countries in the world, apparently ;-)
Posted by: brunilda at November 17, 2004 10:11 AM (v21yJ)
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i like the comparison between northern ireland and the current situation in iraq, there is a lot of truth in that synopsis. As for Laura et al, you are typical of everything that the rest of the world despises in right wing americans, with black and white, good and evil, simplistic arguments. i hope wankers like are in the minority, or the world is turning into a more dangerous place.
Posted by: bigchester at November 17, 2004 11:40 AM (QSFs0)
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Matt Bing,
What would you know about anything? Have you ever served in the military? Have you seen the way these Ultra Islamic morons treat people? Have you ever seen the scars of women beaten for disobeying their husbands? Or the mutilated face of a woman who mistakenly went out without properly covering her face?
I don't think so. Therefore you know sh*t and your uninformed, moronic opinions don't count.
Go back to thumbing through your J. Crew Catalogue, eating your wiener schnitzel, drinking your French wine and leave the handling of this country's foreign policy up to those who have the best interests of this country AND the world in mind.
Radical Islam is a plague that needs to be destroyed. That will only happen when the ruling parties of countries like Syria, Iran, and Lebanon are wiped from this earth and the landscapes of said countries are covered with the blood of all those who resist us.
The day is coming when all good Americans will take no more and stop these people in their tracks. And believe me, phony; pinko liberals such as you will not stop us.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 12:17 PM (AEjRy)
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For all those that believe Mrs. Hassan was killed because the Marine in Falluja exterminated that Islamofacist moron, YOU'RE ALL ABUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!!!!!
Al-Jazerra said yesterday, it received the tape of Mrs. Hassan's murder days ago, but didn't come forward with it until yesterday because they couldnÂ’t be sure of its authenticity.
HummmmmmmÂ…Â….
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 12:29 PM (AEjRy)
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Synopsis comparing Iraq and Ireland is shit. There is no comparison. Irish terrorists that kill innocents should be destroyed like any other terrorist. The US had nothing to do with internal squabbles in Britan. If money can from America to support Irish terrorism/freedom (whatever you choose to call it) it came from Irish immigrants. Read my former posts. I am anti immigration for economic reasons. Irish immigrants promoting terror would fall under one of my reasons why. However, it seems to me that England wishes to stay in Ireland on a premanent basis. America has no such desires in Iraq. We hate that awful place.
For Argentine: You're not married to an American. An American would be taking her skillet to you by now. As I have said before a piece of paper doesn't make an American. When I lived in Miami, Florida nearly everyone who worked for me was from latin America. Many from Argentina. They told me why they left their families to come here.
I never said going to the middle east was a mistake. I merely, mentioned that we have made mistakes in the past. As everyone who gets involved does.
One of you says England is wrong. One of you says Irish are wrong. Both of you say that America is wrong. Know anyone who is right?
I say both of you are little dogs. Just yapping at what you wish you were. What happened? Did the big dog piss on you?
If America is so wrong, so horrible, why would foreigners want to come here? You are obviously in the minority.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 12:45 PM (Id1ho)
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I hope these Islamic lovers seen the special on TV where doctors were trying to put a afgan woman back together.
Her Islamic husband decided that she didn't see things as he did. So he cut here eyes out.
He said she wouldn't listen to him so he cut her ears off.
She stuck her nose in mens business so he cut her nose off.
Islam the religion of peace. (according to Matt Bing). I've got my own ideas. Wonder who brought her poor woman over here and paid for all she needed.
Could it be the oil greedy, money grabbing, trouble making ,uncaring, racist Americans?
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 01:18 PM (Id1ho)
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What is this America for Israel at all costs thing. America protecting Israel? Arabs would wipe out Israel if America didn't protect them.
HOW ABOUT THE REAL TRUTH!
If the United States didn't hold the Israels on a leash there wouldn't be a PLO. The nasty little shit Arafat would have went to his virgin camels a long time ago. And that goes for their supporters. How many times does Israel have to whip their asses to point this out.
Doing what the ISLAMIC asshole huggers accuse us of doing would be the simplest solution. We do care about the descent people. That's why American boys are dying. We could take care of business without losing a man. I hope we can protect ourselves from future Islamic horrors using the present manner. But if the big dog decides to lift his leg it will be because he's frustrated with the little dogs constant yipping.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 01:47 PM (Id1ho)
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Brunlida,
For all of your b*tching about the United States, you forget, or failed to learn, that the reason all of Argentina wasn't taken over by G.B. was because of a little piece of American Legislation called the Monroe Doctrine.
You have no problem with us defending your rights for over two centuries, yet you have a problem with Americans defending our own rights and the rights of few million Iraqis?
Sounds rather self centered to me. Just like every other Left leaning moron to me.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 01:51 PM (AEjRy)
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Brunilda: Thank you kindly for your post on the hyperbole comment. A true liberal America hater would have never admitted to exaggeration. He would have said thousands and said anyone who disagrees is ignorant. You can be saved.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 01:58 PM (Id1ho)
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Rooster,
"Could it be Oil greedy, money grapping, trouble making, uncaring, racist americans?"... All except the uncaring part.. I resemble that remark!!! Hahaha
Good point tho...
Andrea
Posted by: Andrea at November 17, 2004 01:58 PM (+7VNs)
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Kofi needs to go!
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/cRosett/?id=110005904
And this piece of sh*t has the nerve to call the war to liberate Iraq illegal!?!
HA F*CKING HA!!!!!!!
How about letting a brutal dictator get away with murder, LITERALLY, for years, because it lined the pockets of a bunch of lefty U.N. A$$HOLES!?!
The U.N. has gone down the path the League of Nations did right before W.W. II.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 02:06 PM (AEjRy)
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BRUNILDA: Looked at the map as you suggested. Tomorrow we are going to invade Bermuda, Bimini and the Bahamas.
Hmmmmmm Cuba only 90 miles. Nay, they already moved here.
I see in today's news we just got some more.
I think the entire Cuban National Dance team. Wonder why they want to move here?
I wonder why so many of them join our armed forces. I wonder why so many of them are fanatically pro America. I mean they could have moved to a country that speaks their language. LIKE ARGENTINA.
AMERICA: The boat stops here. For damn good reason.
Gotta go. They are exposing the UN's oil for food project as just what it was. Oil for fraud. Chief Engineer. None other that France of course.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 17, 2004 02:26 PM (Id1ho)
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Now the truth is coming out! Now the world will know who the oil mongers really are. France and Russia....Maybe this is why the UN and France were so against taking Saddam out....hmmmmm. Bush busted their pockets....
Posted by: owoju at November 17, 2004 02:33 PM (N4SKL)
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From Greyrooster:>You're not married to an American.
Do I even need to reply to that? Nah.
John: You defended our rights for two centuries? First news. Monroe doctrine?? Uhh, bad mistake, John. Read this: http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/50.htm
Whose interests were you defending?? You obviously considered us your little playground (which we are, of course ;-))
And obviously, all those are red-herrings. My main point of contention with you guys is that, from past experience, we know we can't trust the US. You have intervened whenever you could to satisfy first your interests, toppling perfectly legitimately elected governments if necessary (most of them left-leaning ***I am not allowed to use the word social--ist because it contains c-i-a-l-i-s, but that's what I mean***).
Greyrooster: you try to apply the famous divide ut regnas (divide to conquer) again, if you can. You must have noticed that some of the people arguing against you are British and I am Argentinian, so very conveniently yo are trying to pit me against them because of the Falklands. Hence your somewhat mangled comment about the map. Could you repeat, please? I don't get your point.
It all boils down to this. You guys think the US always has the good of the world in mind, and we (or at least I) think it is not the case. Particularly given:
1) The US' history, especially in the 20th century.
2) The fact that you didn't start with Saudi Arabia if you were so worried about the way they treat women. Following with all the countries in the Maghreb, that don't have a free press (none of them does).
3) The hand you have had since at least the 30s in the economic affairs of Latin America (not to mention the middle east).
I don't hate the US. I just want a little bit of recognition of these things guys. And of our well-meaning scepticism. In your manichean worldview, you present us with a false dilemma: either you accept everything or you hate us. Sad.
I am still waiting for you to explain what good could have possibly come from the cases I cited in my earlier posting.
Posted by: Brunilda at November 17, 2004 03:10 PM (v21yJ)
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Bigchester: Your usage of "wankers" makes me suspicious that you are from the UK...if so, I rest my case. Can't argue with you lib's from over there.
And if I'm in the minority, in case you haven't noticed, over 55,000,000 Americans voted for Bush. I don't think those numbers justify a minority.
For the terrorist situation, I would say, yes, it IS black and white...no gray areas there...they must all be exterminated, no if's, and's or but's.
Do you have a problem with that? Or are you one of the little dogs?
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 03:17 PM (ptOpl)
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Hey, I need to go back to work. But it was great talking to all of you. I understand quite a lot more now. Keep it coming. I'll be checking it later.
Cheers
Posted by: brunilda at November 17, 2004 03:22 PM (v21yJ)
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HA HA!!!!!!!
Brunilda, you crack me up.
You have the nerve to question the U.S.!?! You!?! An Argentinean!?!
Your country openly supported Hitler and gave refuge to THOUSANDS of former Nazi Party Officials, Gestapo, and high ranking German Army officers after WW II and you question us!?!
HA HA!!!!!!!
As for the U.S. getting involved in the affairs of Latin America, maybe if you idiots could pick your sh*tty little "nations" up out of the gutter and put an end to all the drug running, guerilla warfare, coups, kidnappings for ransom and other lovely features of your godforsaken land, we wouldn't have to waste our time with you fools.
Ask yourself this, why have so many of my country moved to the U.S.? Now take a look around you. I think the reason is clear.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 03:30 PM (AEjRy)
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uuuuuu John ... small note .... we gave refuge to a whole bunch of jack booted Soldiers, operatives, and scientists from Japan, Germany and Italy.
Your right on the rest.
Posted by: Salamander at November 17, 2004 04:02 PM (W2YA6)
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hmmmm...since a few weeks I'm watching this site, as an european I'd say the comments here are very onesided. I don't mean it negative cuz if I'd be american my point of view about this war would probably be the same. I'm european, but I have some friends in USA and I have been there several times so I understand this and the other side.
Through my friends I had the pleasure to learn more about the american way of thinking and I don't deny its kinda fascinating for me.
However, in the same way I've learnd from my friends I just wish you would understand us.
I neither for nor against the war in iraq. I just find it horrible how innocent people like Magret Hassan and all others got treaten there. Its so sensless and, above all, in vain.
In my country one of the greatest leader of war was born. His name? Hitler!
And I guess thats why we european disagree to every war on this world.
Posted by: MartinMichael at November 17, 2004 04:08 PM (hHuTQ)
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Thats why we look at it different. We have to clean up the messes of pricks the rest of the world refuse to clean up. I would like to point out Rommel died beieving in the nationalist movement, its in his diaries, but loathing hitler for his leadership. People could have cared less if it was Hitler or anyone else, they dispised Hitler for doing wrong with his power, not the nationalist movement he spear headed.
Posted by: Salamander at November 17, 2004 04:14 PM (W2YA6)
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Salamnder,
You're absolutely right.
My argument is Argentina that openly supported Nazi Germany down to the bitter end. They didn't join the Allies until 1945.
After the war, while provided asylum to many former Nazis and supporters of the once Imperialist Japanese, Argentina went a step further. If we found out a German living in the U.S. had run a death camp or committed war crimes, we extradited him to stand trial. The Argentineans would extradite war criminals. If anything they hid them.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 04:14 PM (AEjRy)
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YES!!! I can see it all very clearly now....I was wrong all along! I'm gonna sit on my big wide ass munchin a Big Mac(TM) or ten, watchin' CNN and our Blue-eyed boys kick those camel fuckers' asses over in I-RAK! I tell ya, those greasy bastards are gonna PAY!!!!! I say we slit those towelheads' throats, then boil them all in a huge vat of pigs blood....etc...etc...etc...! Because we are the GLORIOUS U.S. OF GODDAM A... and if any of you lettuce-munching custard-spined lefty homo liberal types disagree, then we should round you up, put you in a field and NUKE ALL YOU BASTARDS AS WELL!!!!!! (at this point, Brad Loveburger leaves the message board in a US army jeep to strains of a band playing the "star spangled banner" followed by an large entourage of star & stripes wearing ,pom-pom waving cheerleaders all chanting "yoo-ess-ay!", "yoo-ess-ay!" "yoo-ess-ay!")*
* not really....AMERICA, GET A FUCKING LIFE! AGGRESSION BREEDS AGGRESSION....9/11 PISSED YOU OFF, RIGHT? SO WHAT MAKES YOU THINK AGGRESSION TOWARDS OTHERS IS GONNA MAKE THEM FEEL ANY DIFFERENT?! ALL YOU STUPID ULTRA RIGHT WINGERS WHO CANT SEE BEYOND YOUR OWN TWEE PICKET FENCES IN UTAH KEEP YOUR HEAD FIRMLY WHERE IT BELONGS- UP YOUR SEVERLY DELUDED ARSEHOLES! YOU ARE THE REASON ANTI-AMERICANISM IS AT AN ALL TIME HIGH, YOU ARROGANT BASTARDS!!
Posted by: Brad Loveburger III at November 17, 2004 04:55 PM (SgQqe)
77
And you're the reason we can't stand anti-American foreigners sticking up for the ragheads.
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 05:16 PM (ptOpl)
78
I have one question. If the USA is such an awful place, why is it that when 9/11 happened, people from nearly every country in the world were killed? If it's so terrible why do we have immigrants running over our borders at all costs? If it's so horrible, why were all those people from other countries here on 9/11?
When any country in the world has any disaster, who is the first there to help? When the US has a disaster, where are all those people we've helped? They are no where to be found. We learned a long time ago that no one else is going to stand up for us, nor will they help us if we need it.
The USA has only been in existence for the past 228 years. These religious fanatics in the middle east have been fighting amongst themselves since the beginning of time. Who fault was it before we were here?
The USA was basically founded by groups of people who sought to get away from religious persecution. Our ancestors saw just as much of it as anyones did. The only difference between my ancestors and yours is the fact that mine did something about it. Sit back and do nothing and you will never make a mistake. Of course you will have to live with the consequences of your inability to act. The USA is made up of people striving for a better life. If our ancestors hadn't been busy building this country, we might be sitting around griping about our situations that we were not willing to prevent. Yes, we love this country and would not trade it for any other in the world. You are making yourself sound more important than you really are by saying we want you to be jealous or envy us. Basically, we don't care if you do or not. But don't you dare attack us. You attack one of us and you have all of us to deal with. Even though we are from different parts of the world, have very little in common at times, and don't agree on everything, one thing Americans do agree on is we will stand together to defend this country and what it stands for. The religious fanatics don't like our way of life, they don't like anything American. Except our money.
So if you want to think that we care if you envy us or are jealous of us, you go right ahead and think that way. I really don't know of anyone who cares if you like us or not. Go ahead and blame us for the worlds ills. Just remember this, at least we didn't sit around doing nothing. We saw a threat in Sadam and rather than wait until he had the chance to sell weapons he was itching to build, to the religious fanatics determined to kill us all, we did something about it. Try telling the women of Iraq how horrible we are.
Posted by: Mona at November 17, 2004 08:20 PM (5aJBY)
79
Way to go Mona! You get 'em!
I think many people, especially the cat in Latin America, can't tell the difference between government and big business. The American way of life opens all kinds of doors to big business. Big businesses will cut the throat of anyone that will allow it. I'm curious...did the pharm company win in your country? If not, good for your people for standing up to them. If they did win, it wasn't the American's doing that to you. It was the pharm company. Big difference. Do you honestly think the American people would stand for economic restraints to be put on any country for the benefit of a huge corporation? If so, you don't know us very well. Another thing many in other countries don't realize is that the President of the US does not wield the power you seem to think he does. Congress and the senate are where the power lies. We can impeach the President, but we have to rely on the democratic process to take care of ones we'd prefer to rid ourselves of.
So while our way of live breeds successful businesses, but we are not intimidated by them and don't allow them to take over our lives.
We do not want soci (that word the poster won't let us use!) or communism or terrorism here. If you want that, go elsewhere. If I wanted my kids to grow up in the middle of bombings and such, I'd have moved to Iran, Iraq, Israel, etc. We don't want it and will do whatever is necessary to make sure our children don't have to endure it.
I have ancestors who signed the Declaration of Independence, have fought in every war in American history, and who made this country into the best place in the world to live. I will not dishonor the sacrifice made by all those generations of my family and will not allow anyone to tear down all they fought to build up. If you don't like us, that's fine. Stay where you are and don't give us another thought. Next time you need us, we'll do the same thing.
Posted by: Nellie at November 17, 2004 09:20 PM (5aJBY)
80
My, my.....is Mr. Burgerlover one of the lard asses discussed earlier?? How did Utah get dragged into this discussion. Do you have a secret loathing of Mormans? Or are you trying to impress us with your knowledge of American geography? Either way, here is what Utah thinks of you. You are a not worth the lint in any American navel.
Posted by: Tomato Head at November 17, 2004 09:33 PM (5aJBY)
81
You are right, Mr. Buggerass or whatever your name is...aggression breeds aggression. 9/11 isn't seen by you as aggression though. What was it other than aggression?
You show me one raghead willing to sit down and talk to an American and I'll show you the wires sticking out of the bombs taped to his body.
Get real! These people only know one language...killing. That is their purpose in life. To kill as many people as possible. And in the name of religion, at that! They are very warped to think killing buys them a ticket to heaven.
And how many American dollars are in your pocket right now??????????????????????????
Posted by: Mona at November 17, 2004 09:47 PM (5aJBY)
82
Right on, Mona and Nellie. It's about time some other broads besides myself are fending for themselves against these assholes.
I don't care who believes it or not, I know that there was a connection bet. Iraq and Al Qaeda, that the beheadings would have happened anyway, and if they didn't, and we didn't get Saddam, he would surely have done the job in his own ways. He'd been doing that since before we got him.
I must admit I don't like the reasons Bush stated for entering Iraq, like WMD's, to free Iraq, etc. I do agree with his invasion of Iraq, just not his reasons for doing so. And that's what got me into the ongoing debate of the UK people and other foreigners and anti-Americans believing it was an "illegal invasion".
What the fuck was 9/11...an invitation? What was USS Cole? The African Embassy attack? The bombing of the trade towers in '93?
Mid East has been a hemmoroid since the Iran hostage situation 25 yrs. ago during Carter's reign. They have been coming in droves to the US since then. I've never seen so many uncouth, stinky, dark skinned ragheads as I have during the past 20 + years! I don't believe they want to be Americanized anymore than we want them here.
To think that Atta and those other terrorists who flew those planes lived right among us, shopping at the same stores, working out at the same gyms, living in the same houses and apt. buildings!!!!! Your next store neighbors, folks! And we let 'em in.
I hope that Marine that killed the so called "unarmed" Iraqi fighter gets a slap on the hand and goes back to fighting, however, I doubt it. The trauma of this ordeal surely will get him dismissed and sent home. Hopefully, he will not have charges brought against him. This is WAR, Goddamn it, and we can't let trust the soldiers to do the right thing in a snap judgement, then why bother fighting over there?
Fuck Iraq in that case. Bring our men home and carpet bomb the rest of them. End of story.
That was my bicentennial minute.
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 10:11 PM (ptOpl)
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Hi everyone, I'm back,
OK, Argentina is not relevant to this discussion. That trick is so old that it even has a name in logic: it is called a tu quoque fallacy (http://www.adamsmith.org/logicalfallacies/000661.php)
But, John, do you really think I am gonna be all up in arms because you rightly pointed out that the military (dictatorial, not democratically elected) government during WWII harbored the nazis??? Are you kidding me??? Me stand up for those SOBs??? If you think I am going to put my nation before my principles you can forget about it. What they did was criminal, period. And when it's taught in our high-schools it is taught as a moment we should all be ashamed of.
Of course that's of zero relevance to the matter at stake here, but I thought I might as well point it out.
Second: Mona read my postings. I never said all those things you attribute to me. Like your country being horrible. That's what some of your buddies said about mine. I pointed out that you were wrong in invading Iraq and that you are wrong in being self-righteous and using the world as your playground. And all you could do was compare yourselves to a banana republic like my country of origin. Wow! There are great things and great people in the US, that's absolutely not in question. But that you are so benevolent that you stand for liberty and always do good and you're disinterested, err, learn some history. It'll help you.
And finally (I need to go to bed), this is the page I was looking for, to remind you to also see the beam in your own eye: http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2004/10/11/crouch/index_np.html
Cheers everyone. Make your country even better than it is.
Posted by: brunilda at November 17, 2004 10:37 PM (v21yJ)
84
BRUNILDA: The point is we don't agree with you that we were wrong to invade Iraq. In addition, you seem to emit an attitude that you know better. You don't. We have learned to detect that smug liberal attitude that says I am right and you are ignorant if you don't agree. Then, I will prove it by posting a slanted view coming from somewhere else. There are just as many articles slanted to our way of thinking.
America is becoming a nation that doesn't trust others. For good reason I might add. Much of the world wishes to feed here, while bringing little to the table. Educate us, feed us, give us your inventions, your money, your culture, your music, your sports, your technology. Protect us when we are attacked. Even by our own. And by the way, we hate you. You are wrong.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 18, 2004 12:26 AM (7yovg)
85
Dear;Mr. Bush
I thank God so very much,that you now,our president one again.
))My precious President!!! I Love Mr.& Mrs President Bush.
Please taking all the bads guy, so we can live
on this dreamland,that GOD said SO...
Mr. President Bush..May GOD be on Your side all throught the coming year. Mr. President Bush;
this coming Sunday, I'm going to Pasadena to see
Bill Graham,and I will save my prayer for this nation safe and sound Plus ..I will praying for you too.
I Love you Mr.President Bush
))My precious President!!! I Love Mr.& Mrs President Bush.
Please taking all the bads guy, so we can live
on this dreamland,that GOD said SO...
Mr. President Bush..May GOD be on Your side all throught the coming year. Mr. President Bush;
this coming Sunday, I'm going to Pasadena to see
Bill Graham,and I will save my prayer for this nation safe and sound Plus ..I will praying for you too.
I Love you Mr.President BushPosted by: me at November 18, 2004 02:48 AM (DmPDQ)
86
"America is becoming a nation that doesn't trust others"...
Yep, so carry on being paranoid within your own borders then & stop interfering in hotspots throughout the world and frequently fucking things up...& don't go travelling around the world then, stay at home watching on TV the consequences of your foreign "tours" on your young servicemen, when they arrive home in bodybags...you'll probably not feel safe travelling abroad to certain locations in the current climate anyway, so, yeah, stay at home! I'll repeat that if your foreign policy hadnt been so aggressive, so pro-israeli, and on occasions, so needlessly interfering, then the arab fundamentalists might not have committed 9/11. Nothing said on this whole thread has convinced me otherwise.
SO, YEAH! just you carry on thinking the American way is the best way.....that's why the rest of the world looks "very favorably" (NOT) at your downright refusal to sign the Kyoto treaty....fuck the rest of the world & the future of the world, as long as we Americans in our cars with engines the size of tanks carry on living our "freedom lovin'" lifestyle, lets fuck the fact that Nike (one example of many)spend millions on advertising and marketing, but people in the Phillipines are stitching basketball vests on their (and subsequently your) behalf for mere cents per hour....YEAH! WOOOOOOOO!
"Much of the world wishes to feed here"......Oh Yeah?! not with you greedy overweight bastards, thank you.
"while bringing little to the table"....mmm....let me see...is that the fault of the people of other countries who have suffered as a result of America's manipulation of the economic world (see Nike example above) ?! Thats right, you engineer things to preserve your priviliged lifestyle at the expense of your fellow humans, then complain when they want to cross the divide to the land of plenty....hardly surprising, is it?!
"America Educate us"..... in what, exactly? ...paranoia? ...xenophobia? ...aggressive military tactics? ...being eco-unfriendly? ...the economic manipulation of more unfortunate countries? Because you are past-masters at all of these...
"feed us"...HINT:
Stick your burgers down the toilet and learn to WALK again, before the combined weight of the US population sends you sinking into the sea....
give us your inventions, your money....see above as to why you are so wealthy in the first place. We all pay for YOU in some ways.
your culture, your music, your sports....granted, some aspects of american culture are ok...though, i'm struggling to think of a single example at present....though your sports are crap! who has a WORLD series involving a grand total of TWO nations!?!
"your technology"....I have a theory here....More anti- western nations, whilst not having nuclear weapons at present, will have them at some point in the future! Why? because the likes of Iran (for example) are progessive nations who arent still fighting with shields & spears. Nuclear tecnology is over 50 years old, the rest of the world is catching up fast (and with NO technological help from you, I might add!)
"Protect us when we are attacked"...I'm a brit and you know what? if a 747 flies straight into Big Ben, it wont be my fault, it will be Blair's fault for insisiting on fighting this fucking unnecessary war, alongside you paranoid trigger-happy freaks. Besides, no, I wouldn't want America to do anything if we (the UK) were invaded or attacked...we've not been successfully invaded for a 1,000 years, so I think we'll be ok thank you very much & before you go on about World War II, Hitler was never gonna invade us seriously, the english channel saw to that.
Posted by: Brad Loveburger III at November 18, 2004 03:27 AM (SgQqe)
87
So passivity is a quaility you think will save you from terrorist acts. You are disillusioned my English friend.
People like you will be the first to get beheaded by the terrorists for being so damn ignorant.
Posted by: Chuck at November 18, 2004 06:47 AM (ZK4JW)
88
Hi all,I'm from England and this is my 1st post so bear with me thanks.
Firstly God Bless and God speed to Margaret who at least is now in a safe place hopefully being rewarded for her good deeds.
Secondly well done to the American soldier who shot the "unarmed" Iraqi, he may have been boobytrapped or had a grenade ready anyhow.He should have shot your journalist as well for being so willing to air this and hang the soldier out to dry.How do you decide who are insurgents or civillians. Are the Iraqi's we see dancing on blown up tanks or cheering at dead soldiers civillians ?
Thirdly I think that whatever is wrong with your Country (and ours) the majority of people in the UK would rather stand side by side with you than our weak-kneed "friends" in Europe.
If its time to stand up and pick a side then ... God Save the Queen and God Bless America !
Posted by: Stuart at November 18, 2004 07:29 AM (f1dYS)
89
Being passive Chuck? read my first paragraph....the American mistake has been not supporting the creation of a Palestinian state enough, until last week, when Bush starts making big belated positive noises about the palestinian question (no doubt after persuasion from Blair). So, is seeking solutions to problems through progressive diplomacy being passive? I rather think not...and what's more, in exactly WHAT way can real determined diplomatic effort incite the terrorists to commit another 9/11?!? the answer is, we know for definite, it won't. Rockets, Bombs, thousands of innocent civilian deaths & the ILLEGAL invasion of a muslim state might just piss them off again though, don't you think?
Posted by: Brad Loveburger III at November 18, 2004 08:30 AM (SgQqe)
90
BradBurger: "I'm a Brit"...that says it all. Forgive me, Stuart, you are one of the rarer ones on this blog from the UK that actually support Blair and Bush.
People like Brad, CooqarUK, and others from the UK give your country a bad name. Whining, pissing and moaning that it's Bush's fault, Blair's fault...oh, I'm getting so tired of these cry baby libs!
Two words for Brad: Fuck off.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 09:03 AM (ptOpl)
91
Laura, go book a one-way flight to Fallujah a.s.a.p. because your inarticulate, ultra right wing "bomb the bastards" small minded rants are VERY FUCKING TEDIOUS. I know a guy called Al-Zarquwi who will take you in for a few days (though maybe in your case he'd be chopping your head off after only a few minutes, not days...because I know that I wouldn't spare you for a few days if I lived in your house & had to listen to the shit coming out of your mouth)...anyway, I've heard that he's very hospitable with American right wingers....
Posted by: Brad Loveburger III at November 18, 2004 02:57 PM (SgQqe)
92
Truth hurts, eh, Bradburger? Why is it that all of the bloggers on here disagree with you? Maybe because you're a fake.
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 03:18 PM (ptOpl)
93
Careful Laura ....
I think Brad has the "hots" for you.. LOL
Posted by: Stuart at November 18, 2004 04:11 PM (Qlk2S)
94
Oh yeah right. Like CooqarUK on the Bigley blog?
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 04:22 PM (ptOpl)
95
Sorry Laura,
Just English sense of humour.
Posted by: Stuart at November 18, 2004 04:28 PM (Qlk2S)
96
S'ok, Stuart, no harm done. Others have said worse.
;-)
Posted by: Laura at November 18, 2004 04:36 PM (ptOpl)
97
QUOTE from Brad,"I know a guy called Al-Zarquwi.."
A little disturbing, or disturbed?
Posted by: owoju at November 18, 2004 04:45 PM (N4SKL)
98
Brunilda has some points to her arguement but doesn't she wonder why a self absorbed country like the U.S. would Build the Panama Canal then give it back to Panama? Even tho it's such a huge money maker? Why the U.S. would accept Japan's surrender in WW II then help rebuild it into one of the worlds leader economic powers that in more than a few ways rivels that of the U.S.? I don't think those are moves of a country bent on world domination? But because we are so successful people will always say what they want to, OOps, well atleast in the U.S. Brunilda. Try demonstrating against your own goverments where you live and see how far it gets you.
Posted by: K G at November 18, 2004 05:42 PM (xXUWq)
99
I actually promised my self I wouldn't read this thread anymore (life goes on) but...
On the Panama Canal:
http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/joining.html
And K.G. you may want to read the next page too:
http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/teddy.html
There's the answer to your question on why the US build the canal.
Cheers,
Posted by: brunilda at November 18, 2004 07:57 PM (v21yJ)
100
I apologize, I forgot to mention that the reconstruction of Japan was, in my opinion, one of the best decisions in US policy in the 20th century. It showed the world that it had actually learnt the lessons of the Versailles treaty, and therefore, it has to be properly recognized and admired. Kudos.
Posted by: brunilda at November 18, 2004 09:01 PM (v21yJ)
101
Hi are you Brits out there Hi Lara LONG LIVE ENGLAND! I love the Brits. Im an American vietnam vet......"been there done that" Thank god for that marine who shot the terroist armed or unarmed he saved another colaition soldier from dying. Next time Marines use a granade and take out the whole bunch of them! As for Brad eat camel shit!
Posted by: sue at November 19, 2004 07:05 PM (rL0Tr)
102
I find it abhoring that while the Arab media plays the marine video 24/7, they won't show Hassan's.
Better to depict Americans as savages rather than admit the truth that their own are the true bastards of depravity.
Posted by: Laura at November 19, 2004 07:35 PM (ptOpl)
103
Brunilda,
If you read my post, I didn't 'attribute' anything to you. I read all the earlier posts and replied to them all. I just asked simple questions.
As for BurgerAss or whoever it is, you really have your head up your ass. I don't think you know much at all about WWII. Why did Churchill beg the USA to come help England? Certainly wasn't because all was well there. It was because bombs were dropping all over London with no end in sight. Hitler would have loved nothing more than taking up your precious Queen's residence. Which by the way, that whole concept is a bit 'head up the ass', but that's another topic.
The thing you people do not understand is that in a democracy, the PEOPLE elect the officials. If you don't like them, don't vote for them. That's how we do it here. If you aren't voted for, you don't become President. I think the fact that Bush was re-elected has really chapped the hide of lots of other countries. HE is who we wanted or he wouldn't have received more than 3.5 million more votes. You can say what you want about him or the USA, but you just don't get it. All you want to do is criticize us when every one of your posts attacking us is so green with envy it's funny. Yes, we drive cars - whatever kind we want.
As far as the Nike comment, I have one response. How would all those people be making a living if Nike weren't there? When all the crap about the Mexican sweatshops working for USA companies came out, the USA companies pulled out. Do you know how those women that had worked there fed their children after that? Prostitution is how. I was there and saw that with my own eyes, so I know that is true. Why do your countries make it so inviting for American companies to come there and open factories? I know everyone here wishes the jobs remained here. This is another example of government being mistaken for big business and free enterprise. The government cannot control what these large corporations do around the world anymore than you can. So you can shove your Nike comments straight up your already full ass.
Posted by: mona at November 19, 2004 10:03 PM (J7nZh)
104
Brunidla,
Forgot one comment. I have a master's degree in history. I don't think you can even come close to that. Fact of the matter...how now owns the Panama Canal? Isn't the USA. Don't think we've ever invaded our closest neighbors, who would be fairly easy pickings if we were hellbent on doing that.
And my dear, even if you won't admit it, you'd be living in a far different world now that you are if the USA had not pulled England out of Hitler's fist.
Posted by: Mona at November 19, 2004 10:15 PM (J7nZh)
105
why don't they keep showing or atleast show once on all the news stations the killing of margaret? We see killings all the time on movies and our local news, read about them in our papers etc.....and now they want to push in the ground this poor marine who did what he should have done considering his circumstances.........for all we know the raghead could have been doing what many have did before, waiting for a moment to of course fake and hide (what their trained to do) and then blow himself and everyone to bits,,,,,,,,give me a break,,,,,,this makes me sick,,,,,,,,the news media needs to be charged the war crimes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all they do is downgrade and belittle our country, military and our president.........
Rest In Peace Margaret......where were all your Iraqi friends.........when will the country and its people.get balls to stand on their own????????/ I want my babysitting husband home!!!to protect our country for a change...
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 02:04 PM (llyRQ)
106
Bradloveburger or booger #3
you make me sick!!!!!!!!!
Why didn't your never been invaded tea drinking winers save the jews in the holocaust????
God Bless Tony Blair and lord help him for having creeps like you in his country!!!!!!!!!!
you must really be coogar or live next door to him, or your dropped off at the same daycare!
Go back to your looking for something in the paper to sound intelligent game!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we have seen your kind too many on here.......we don't like your ideas and negativity.......why don't you try standing up for something that serves a purpose............besides just using the bathroom...................You Brits, are as arrogant as your queen,,,,,,,,,I mean what does she do for a living? exactly?
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 02:12 PM (llyRQ)
107
Brunilda,
You don't even make sense..........
You don't trust America, but any of you Foreign asses will take our money wont you!!!!!!!!!!
why don't you try listing all the help our tax dollars from each individual in America goes to help,,,,,,,,,about Women in Saudi Arabia, they were in no way as abused as the Iraqi women,,,,,,,,,,sure they can't vote....so what!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you need to get you act together girl!!!!!!!!!!!
What grade are you in by the way, are you in High School, Do you have a high School? I am right with Mona on this one, don't even know her,slight difference my BA is in English,
Hey Laura, are you stealing the brits hearts again...he he I bet coogs jealous,,,,,,,,,come on coogar we know you are on here, who are you? are you the booger #3
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 02:22 PM (llyRQ)
108
one more thing Brunilda,
stop posting web addresses please, we can find those all we want,
this is a blog sight,
to state your own personal ideas and known facts
this is not a contest on intellectual ability
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 02:26 PM (llyRQ)
109
Oh jesus!...here we go again... you right wingers will never convince me on Iraq & vice versa, but....just for Mona, I can assure you that I am not jealous of the USA - whether you believe that or not, I don't really care... you have a History degree do you!? Do you want a round of applause for that, do you?! No? How about a gold star then? Well... as for Churchill "begging" the USA for help in WWII, granted, he recognised that at that early point of WWII we were the last remaining major force in Europe opposing Nazism & yes, you are right to point out that London was being pummelled by bombing during 1940...so, he went to the US for help to avoid a PROLONGED conflict - not because we were "losing" the war & at real threat from invasion. As I pointed out in an earlier post, although Hitler had made sketchy plans for "Operation Sealion" the reality was that it was never going to happen, Hitler's main objective was the proposed expansion of the Nazi empire into Soviet Russia, because of his loathing of the Slavs... So, because of the sea & the Slavs, Britain was realitvely safe from invasion & arguably, with the Russians,we would have defeated the Nazis anyway, admittedly in a longer war.
So, go & read more history books. Or look at the facts, without bias.
OH another thing.... did we not help YOU in south east Asia during WWII?? What a selective memory you have....
As for your criticism of our Queen, I AGREE WITH YOU!!!! So, no quarrel there....
The "car" comment? - you didnt really answer my point about your countries' enormous energy consumption & the Kyoto treaty did you? - one issue on which almost every other industrialised country on earth doesn't agree with you. Just remember, 100 years from now, your kids & grandkids will have to breathe the same air as mine. So, naturally, the rest of the leading nations don't agree with, or respect the US short-sighted stance on Kyoto .
I accept that the actions of big western businesses are not officially US government policy, and indeed the UK is not blameless on this, but the point I was making here was in response to previous posts on this thread stating "if the USA is so bad, how come everybody wants to come here?!?" I was merely suggesting that it is because it is better to be in the position of the EXPLOITEE (big business & the consumers living in the affluent countries with thriving economies who conduct this big business) rather than the EXPLOITED (the countries in which cheap labour is used for greater profit margins by the afore-mentioned big business in rich countries)....don't try to convince me that Nike start making running shoes in Greece because the "poor women" would be selling sex otherwise....it's about PROFIT & PROFIT alone. AND YOU KNOW IT.
mardammywife...an English degree, eh? Ok, whatever...
Why didnt we save the Jews??? We didnt know about the scale of the fucking holocaust till we entered deep into Nazi territory to liberate the camps - you retard!!! On that basis, it's America's fault just as much as the UK's because as Mona said, we apparently "BEGGED" you to enter WW2, so it follows that it must be YOUR fault six million Jews died because you didnt help us kill all the Nazi's quickly enough...YOU IDIOT!!!
Pearl Harbour had nothing do do with the US entering WW2 though, did it?!
Posted by: Brad the trim-waisted slad-muncher at November 20, 2004 04:49 PM (SgQqe)
110
Hey, all, this Brad guy sure is starting to sound like COOqarUK, doesn't he?
Me thinks they're one and the same. Like the rest of the whining lib's from the UK.
Posted by: Laura at November 20, 2004 06:56 PM (ptOpl)
111
Madarmywife:
I couldn't resist: "BLOG SIGHT". Define please? You must mean "blog site"...
BA in ENGLISH... oh my God.
Good night ladies and gentlemen. You are surreal to argue with. And don't even bother keeping up with your insults... I'm gone for good (I can hear cheers -and relief- on your side).
Posted by: brunilda at November 20, 2004 07:19 PM (v21yJ)
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brunhilda
the great goddess of spelling,
well I did say this wasn't an intellect contest....no comparison to all your mis-spellings and confusion in run ons....atleast sight was spelt right he ha he ha...
all I can say is good bye and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out,,,miss argentina
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 11:13 PM (rLlU1)
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where was it you "learnt" to spell anyway brunhilda girl
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 11:16 PM (rLlU1)
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Brad what ever size waist you have..
you are coogar aren't you??? your the idiot,
pearl harbor on these blogs is old news, we've all been there over that one, go back to bigley's blog if you want to go there, save us some time....
you didn't know about the scale because you are retarded!!!!why did you wait for the usa to cover you coward back , why didn't you take care of it sooner you creep!!!!!!!!!well we didn't make the same mistake this time, were gonna "get-r-done" with no help or whinning from assholes like you!!!!
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 11:22 PM (rLlU1)
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one more thing brad the waist muncher
we could care less if you belived in this fight for terrorism or why we are there, no one is trying to change your mind....so stop feeling sorry for yourself and stop all the blah blah crap we have already heard from the brits before...most people will skip such long repeated paragraphs on here about who's country does what and did what...blah blah,,,,
if this is coogar, glad to see you back old friend,
missed you
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 11:28 PM (rLlU1)
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believed...sorry for the mis-spelling
he he heh e
Posted by: madarmywife at November 20, 2004 11:30 PM (rLlU1)
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I have just one comment to Broom Hilda's, and all the other wonderfully wise Brits' remarks.....Does everyone who ever had a doubt, now understand why our ancestors beat the shit out of England and sent them back across the water during the Revolutionary War????????
Now...twist that fact.....
Posted by: Mona at November 21, 2004 01:29 AM (J7nZh)
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Oh well Burger Muncher or Thin Waist, or whatever you want to be called now....think you have effectively had your ass kicked. Just like your sorry assed king got the last time England tried to tell us what to do.
You are pathetic. When anyone points out facts that you don't want to acknowledge, you start personal attacks. The nerve of you tea drinking arrogant assholes! I knew you were all crazy when I received my letter from one of your newspapers telling me not to vote for George Bush. I'll tell you the same thing I told your newspaper......kiss my ass.
Posted by: hilda at November 21, 2004 01:33 AM (J7nZh)
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Way to go!! I think Hitler would have looked cute sitting on the Queen's throne. He might not have looked quite as much like a starched old fart as she does. Speaking of old farts, Prince Charles will fit in her shoes nicely. He and his sister about the ugliest things I've ever seen. Are you people sure they didn't crawl out from under a rock?
Mr Muncher....you need to go find something else to chew, as it's obvious this discussion is over your head.
Brundila....give it up...you are just plain and simply WRONG.
As far as Nike...I'm sure it is profitable for them to go to other countries to make their shoes or they wouldn't do it. My question to you on that is the same as Mona's....is it better to have nowhere to work, or to have a job making comparable wages to everyone else in the country? Whose fault is it that these countries allow companies to pay their workers so little? We have something known as a minimum wage in the USA to protect citizen from that. And when these plants close their doors, where do these people work then? Or do they suddenly stop wanting to eat?
Then on to the energy consumption....how many people live in England? How many people live in the USA? Think there is a bit of a difference there. Any country that allows a rotted old fart called the queen to ride around in a car or in a boat or even use enough electricity to light her palace, has no room to say one word to anyone using anything.
Posted by: Tomato Head at November 21, 2004 01:48 AM (J7nZh)
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I just have to jump in with one comment....To all you wise Brits - take your ideas and opinions and stick them up the Queen's ass. Might give her something to think about other than how she can kill other unwanted family members.
Posted by: mary at November 21, 2004 01:53 AM (J7nZh)
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Wo! One at a time HaHa! All rising to my bait like the dumb Yanks you are!
1. "getting my ass kicked" what - by you lot?!? mmm...let me see...does the creator of this site hold jingoistic, anti-islamic views, therefore this site naturally attracts people holding those same views? The answer is YES, and that's the ONLY reason I'm outnumbered here....let's take a world poll on the war in Iraq...think the results might be rather different then. Which is why hardly any other nations are fighting with you in Iraq. TWIST THAT FACT, MONA.
2. You will never be convinced that anything other than force will solve this problem & if anyone else tries to argue to the contrary, they are "a whining lib"...which is ok,I can accept other people's points of view but you then are "insular,paranoid trigger happy freaks, who can't see past your own belly buttons" then. So, do not make the accusation that it is solely ME who resorts to personal insults...read the whole thread, and have you not done the same?! HaHa, your hypocrisy makes me sick. Typically, you only see things from one (slanted) point of view - your own. More navel gazing....
3. No reasonable arguement has been made to defend your countries planet-killing policies or the fact that your immigration is caused by exploiting less fortunate countries......
4. As has previously been documented, I couldn't give a shit about the queen, if she dropped dead tomorrow, i'd throw a party.
5. The war of Independence? sure you kicked our ass OVER 200 YEARS AGO...YOU ARE RIGHT, MONA!! Now admit the points where i am right, or at least have a valid point. ARE YOU BIG ENOUGH TO DO THAT???!!!! Don't worry, i'll still sleep tonight if you don't, because like the majority of the rest of the world, I don't share your views on the war in iraq. Which says everything about the majority opinion on this board. It's wrong, and out of touch with the REAL majority, out there in the REAL world. TWIST THAT FACT.
Posted by: Brad Boom at November 21, 2004 04:47 AM (SgQqe)
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Refer: BRUNILA'S post of Nov 18, 9.01PM. Seems to agree with drop the bomb and then rebuild policy. HMMMMM!
Myself I'm still in the court of don't drop the bomb until absolutely neccessary.
I do agree that we should be using more missles/aircraft to deliver stronger weaponry. The so called innocent civilians should have enough sense to get away from the terrorist/insurgent element. That is if they are not actually supporting them. They know who they are.
Is Israel going to let Iran develop nuclear capability that close to home? They didn't allow Iraq to.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 21, 2004 08:55 AM (z15fv)
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Hey folks: Big mistake here. England, Ireland , Scotland, Wales are great countries. They have a few assholes as we do. Don't attack the countries the assholes are from just because they attack us. The UK is our best friend and they deserve to be.
On the question of the world not joining us. The world didn't join us in WW2 either. As a major bully in highschool I learned that very few of the thousands in my school would fight back. Those with the courage to fight back usually joined my group. Not proud. Just saying like it is.
In WW2 you had the UK (and it's group) and the United States fighting against injustice. Russia played the same game then as now until attacked. The French layed down, as they do now. Spain hid in the sand same as now.
I am surprised at Germany. After we done so much for them.
Not much has changed. South America acted the same.
THIS TIME LET US REMEMBER
Posted by: greyrooster at November 21, 2004 09:22 AM (z15fv)
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THANK YOU Hilda, Mona, Tomato, Mary,!!!!
LOL
This is the first real LOL moment I have ever had since my husband went back to Iraq,,,reading all the comments in a row after my own, then hearing old coogar brad mucher thin wasit respond...now that was some funny stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again,,,I am still laughing......
Rooster, you are right, I have always had a fondness for Scotland and hope to visit there someday being scot/Irish myself.
Hail to the queen..he he heh eh...they are ugly arent' they?????
Posted by: madarmywife at November 21, 2004 01:09 PM (j8wed)
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planet killing,,,,,,,,,,,,,do you not eat, use the restroom, sleep, throw away garbage , use heat, air, put your pants on like the rest of the world............your the hypocrite coogar aka brad waist broom muncher wish I was american no body loves me I drink too much tea and would rather wait for the terrorist to come to my door etc etc etc..blah blah blah......
Immigration problems?? now your blaming us for immigration problems...they'd be coming there my friend if they didn't have the ocean between them..!!!...
come on coog, give us something good!!!!!to jump on you about
Posted by: madarmywife at November 21, 2004 01:23 PM (j8wed)
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Well, I think my suspicions are confirmed. Brad Burger, waisted, what the fuck he calls himself on each new post IS the infamous Coo Coo COOqaruk....SMELLS LIKE IT ANYWAY.
Rooster is right though. We shouldn't start knocking our allies just because a coupla assholes come from there.
I don't care who kicked whose ass, it's the here and now I'm concerned about. And it looks like we're gonna be headed to Mosul in the next few days.
That's the newest beheadquarters, get it?
Posted by: Laura at November 21, 2004 01:54 PM (ptOpl)
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“It is not a sensible or intelligent response for us in Europe to ridicule American arguments and parody their political leadership. What is entirely sensible is for Europe to say that terrorism won’t be beaten by toughness alone.”
Mr Blair said there was an opportunity for Europe. “American policy is evolving. Increasingly both Europe and America are coming to realise that lasting security against fanatics and terrorists cannot be provided by conventional military force. “It requires a commitment to democracy, freedom and justice. The only stable Afghanistan will be a democratic Afghanistan.
“Ultimately it is democracy in Iraq that will defeat the insurgents, which is why they are so desperate to stop it. The only viable Palestinian state will not just be based on territory but on democratic values.
“Likewise, the best help we can give Africa is not just through aid, vital though that is, and opening up trade, but through supporting countries in their desperate and fraught attempts to to build institutions of good governance.”
Mr Blair said that democracy was the meeting point for Europe and America. “I am not — repeat not — advocating a series of military solutions to achieve it. But I am saying that patiently but plainly Europe and America should be working together to bring democratic, human and political rights we take for granted to the world denied them.
Mr Blair also spoke of the need for the UN to take on a greater leadership role in providing for intervention in failed states that injure rather than protect their own citizens. “None of this will work, however, unless America too reaches out. Multilateralism that works should be its aim. I have no sympathy with unilateralism for its own sake.”
Mr Blair also delivered a passionate defence of the alliance. “I know of one thing. If we were under direct threat, America would be our ally. If America were to pull up the drawbridge, retreat from its obligations and alliances abroad, the terrorists would attack the rest of us.
“They are not interested in America as America. They are interested in America as the post powerful actor in pursuit of beliefs they fear as much as we value them.”
He said of America and Europe: “What we share is, in the end, of oceanic depth compared to the shallow water of any present discord.”
Britain had a unique role to play between Europe and the US. “Call it a bridge, a two-lane motorway, a pivot or call it a damn high wire, which is how it often feels, our job is to keep our sights firmly on both sides of the Atlantic, use the good old characteristics of common sense and make the argument.
“In doing so we are not subverting our country either into an American poodle or a European municipality, we are advancing the British national interest in a changed world in the 21st century.”
SO, INVADE IRAN, OR ANYWHERE ELSE AND YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN....
BYE BYE, LOVE AND HUGS, BIG BRAD BLAIR.
Posted by: Tony Blair at November 21, 2004 04:36 PM (SgQqe)
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First off, I never told you anything about an ass being kicked. Think that came in later posts, not mine. So I think you are the one getting a bit upset here.
I do want to ask one question though I will likely regret it. How is our 'exploitation' of other countries having cheap labor rates causing our immigration problems?
My hat's off to you MadArmyWife. I'm glad someone else found all those postings after mine amusing. Hasn't the royal family hear of plastic surgery? Or would that taint the blue blood?
Broom Hilda, one other comment. I would gladly admit you were right about something if I could find anything you are right on.
Posted by: Mona at November 21, 2004 07:04 PM (J7nZh)
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Glad I made you smile Madarmywife. Sure you need a few smiles these days.
As far as the broom chewer, I think I detect a note of hostility in your comments. Mission accomplished!!! Sorry you got blamed for it Mona!
I have one more comment to make on the queen. She's a bit like soap-on-a-rope. Fart-on-a-throne.
Posted by: Tomato Head at November 21, 2004 07:10 PM (J7nZh)
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Mona, i'll spell it out for you....would you rather live in a shit-hole of a country working hard just to keep your head above water with few luxuries to look forward to, or would you rather be in a country whose big business takes advantage of the cheap labour on offer in your country and also offers a much higher standard of living for exactly the same amount of work.....mmm...tough choice, huh? To go back to the original point that brought this all up...That is why "people want to come to the USA".
I've done you the courtesy of answering your question, now tell me why the US wont sign the Kyoto Treaty? I know the answer, but would like to hear it from you.
Thank you. And I know you probably won't appreciate this, but you have my credit for being the only person on here who has the intelligence to be worthy of replying to...Like i've said, I can handle a different rationally-argued view, just not a blinkered one. Keep the Anti-Queen comments coming by the way, I find them funny myself....
Posted by: Brad Blair's son at November 22, 2004 03:58 AM (SgQqe)
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To Mona, Laura and the Madarmywife
I have just read your comments regarding the British..First of all I would like to say that every decent human being detests terrorism in all forms so let me refresh your memory mona..(as you have a masters degree in History that is)The greatest single act of terror in modern history was in fact committed by your own government...yes..the devastation of Hiroshima in 1945. The peace negotiations were almost over..The Japanese were just holding out to keep their emperor as head of state...Could the Americans wait for just another week? No chance...They dropped the atom bomb that killed over 100,000 people, Men Women and Children..Was that good enough..NO..Three days later they dropped another one...Plutonium this time on Nagasaki..They not only killed another 50,000 but quite a few American prisoners of war..Oh yes and a few more thousand due to the fallout...What did President Harry say to the American people?..They were just military installations No civilians were killed...but we all know different now dont we? so Please Mona go and resit your Masters degree ...Also Ladies could you tell me what language you speak?...Let me guess...English..Right?..If the English had not set sail a few hundred years ago you would still be speaking Apache,Souix or Crow and giving birth in tents...Dont forget girls the British are your closest ally..SO STOP KNOCKING THEM
Posted by: Rodders at November 22, 2004 03:15 PM (0kcTO)
132
Wrong, my ancestors came from ITALY.
Posted by: Laura at November 22, 2004 08:14 PM (ptOpl)
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Laura....ok, why did your Italian ancestors move to the USA?
Posted by: Bradley Bear at November 23, 2004 02:48 AM (SgQqe)
134
"In a fair world trade system, you would get paid the same per hour for equally onerous work no matter where on earth you did the work. You would get paid more for climbing in sewers, for doing a job that only a few people can do, or for doing a job that takes long preparation, such as being a doctor. How is the world organised now? Americans get paid perhaps over an order of magnitude times more for the same work as people in the poorest countries. Who is ripping off whom? That disparity is only possible when America takes unfair advantage of her economic and military might. People don't voluntarily put up with that degree of disparity. All the countries in the west take unfair advantage of the third world, not just America. It is just that America is most blatant because she is the most powerful".
....Mona, as per my previous answers, previously on this thread, I accept that the UK is not totally blameless itself in this regard.....the difference seems to be that I have a conscience on the issue whereas, you seem to think the ONLY reason people want to emigrate to the USA is because "its such a great place"...you may enjoy freedom & relatively cheap goods and a high standard of living etc etc but on what foundations are some of those things built upon? i'll put it to you again...in no small part, it's due to the exploitation of poorer countries by your big business.
Posted by: Brad the moose at November 23, 2004 03:22 AM (SgQqe)
135
Hello again girls...Laura tell me the answer to this question...What is the smallest book in the world??????....No Idea?..let me tell you..THE ITALIAN BOOK OF WAR HERO'S...
I came onto this website to see the the comradeship between two Countries fighting a war side by side...all I have seen is a few British hating American females who dont know what they are talking about...So girls, I dont mind having a laugh with people of limited intelligence but I admit ..I do get a little pissed off with disrespectful people....So if you wish to keep this war of words please understand that for every derogatory comment you make against the British people ..I will have an answer....bye
Posted by: Rodders at November 23, 2004 10:45 AM (3zwMU)
136
One thing is being forgotten in all the talk of the USA taking advantage of cheap third world labor. When those jobs leave the USA, there is no one here doing them anymore. So the people who you claim are making huge wages for the same work being done in the third world are dead wrong. Americans who were doing those jobs before they left our shores have either had to take huge cuts in pay to work in similar jobs, or they've had to go back to school to learn a new trade. A job that leaves here is no longer here, so no one here can be doing that job.
Another misconception is that we enjoy a cheap life. That is far from the truth. We pay hefty taxes and quite high prices for goods here. We have homeless people, people being supported by the government, and many problems you don't bother acknowledging. The fact is, even with all these problems, there is opportunity here. Just because you are born poor doesn't mean you will die poor.
Now to answer your Kyoto question. I can't say the exact reasons President Bush doesn't accept it, as I have not followed it very closely lately. The reasons I give are pure speculation on my part. First, it appears the reductions expected of each country are likely unattainable. Some countries can reduce that much quickly, but most can't. Even if everyone reaches their goals, the benefit to the atmosphere is minute.
From the comments I have heard from the President on this agreement, he is in favor of finding other ways to clean up the world. He isn't saying reduction shouldn't happen, he's only saying why promise something you know you cannot do, plus knowing all along it makes very little difference. Believe it or not, we do have hybrid cars, our cars do have to pass yearly emissions inspections, and fossil fuels are used to heat less and less American homes now. Most factories now have an employee that their only job is to monitor emissions from the plant, and report them to the EPA. Huge fines are leveled against factories that emit more than they are allowed. So it's not like we are doing nothing, even though we haven't signed on with the Kyoto agreement.
Next, to the person with the comments on the USA dropping the nuclear bombs on Japan, you need to study your history a bit more. You are living in a fantasy world if you believe what you typed. Believe it or not, we didn't start that one either.
From the sounds of it, all of you believe our lives here are right out of a tv show. Just because we love our country and will fight to defend it, you think we live in palaces and attend parties every day. Fact of the matter is, I work over 60 hours per week to support my family. That is the norm here...you work many hours to pay for it all.
And lastly, for the Native American comments-suck an egg. I have many ancestors and relatives from the Cherokee Nation. And I haven't lived in a teepee and my kids were born in a hospital. So even Indians can accept progress.
Posted by: Mona at November 23, 2004 11:32 PM (J7nZh)
137
Rodders, if you think this started out as a few females hating England, you need to read all the posts. Make all the comments you want. Personally attacking us will get you the same results. So, go drink some tea or something else productive.
Posted by: Mary at November 23, 2004 11:36 PM (J7nZh)
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Ok Mona, thanks for replying, looks like we will have to agree to disagree, whilst I accept your points about the US losing jobs to developing countries, in my opinion, people living in the west on welfare are STILL better off than lots of the people big business exploits in third world countries. Would YOU swap places with them??? Or, would you rather stay where you are, only being there through the accident of birth. I certainly consider myself fortunate to be a UK citizen, but I wouldn't deny anybody of any nationality the right to come to the UK. Nobody can dictate the country into which they are born. I know when I spent a short time in my teens on welfare in the UK, even then I wouldn't have gone to any developing country to work hard & long in a sweatshop in return for (probably even then) a lower standard of living. As you say, at least in the west we usually have the option to retrain and find alternative employment...As regards Kyoto, you may well be correct when you speculate that the aims of the treaty are unrealistic & benefits to the environment would be minute, but, at least the rest of the developed world has taken a small step in the right direction...the US doesn't want ot commit itself to even that, as it doesn't want to upset it's own eco-unfriendly companies, for fear of damaging profits. Which, in my own personal point of view is short sighted & irresponsible. The rest of the developed world agrees on this point, as they have all signed the treaty, which leads to a general feeling that america is arrogant & always does what it wants...so, damn everybody else.
Posted by: bradley the crossed eyed bear at November 24, 2004 04:51 AM (SgQqe)
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I don't hate the British! What I DO hate are the poor representatives of Britian who have come onto this blo and personally attacked me for my views on how I feel this war should be handled. I am NOT against the country as a whole.
COOqarUK, on another blog, ended up calling me a "stupid fucking bitch" and was thrown off the blog. He subsequently kept making up different monikers to be able to continue posting his rantings and insults.
I got a bad taste in my mouth after that, because of him. He ended up losing everyone's respect and he lost his credibility by turning into nothing more than a blithering idiot making vulgar and sexist remarks against anyone who disagreed with him.
THAT is why I am perceived to be a "female hating the British". I support MY leader and Britian's leader wholeheartedly in this war.
Posted by: Laura at November 24, 2004 09:17 AM (ptOpl)
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ok laura
point taken..but please let me reassure you the majority of British people also support Mr Blair ..You will always get the pacifist dickheads that will tell you that war is unnecessary ....dont let them wind you up
Posted by: Rodders at November 24, 2004 12:53 PM (PZir7)
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Too late, Rodders, they already have, but whether I'm right or wrong, when a person savagely attacks another for their views and resorts to name calling in the vilest sense of the word, then they have lost all respect and whatever credibility their arguments may have held.
The only reason I let it get to me, is because I, personally, was affected by the 9/11 attacks. Most others only talk about it, but I lost people there and have friends and family who lost people there.
The anger, rage and hatred for a group of people who caused this is still very much present. I cannot apologize for those feelings, even now.
I pity no "innocent civilians"...I only care about our soldiers right now. Every war has had casualties of innocents, it's a known fact and cannot be argued.
But, to savagely hogtie, blindfold, and behead innocent people for no apparent reason makes no sense to me, and it is for this I wish revenge, in whatever methods it can be attained.
Posted by: Laura at November 24, 2004 06:57 PM (ptOpl)
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Yo, Laura!
If the above post is a thinly-veiled dig towards me, have a look back up the blog...my initial "insults" were generalised towards the US, not personal in nature...it was YOU who resorted to telling me that I was a "terrorist loving piece of foreign shit" (I'm not, by the way...I just don't agree with the official reasons given for the war & STILL don't think the invasion of Iraq will "solve" anything in the long-term)
...and then in another later post you told me to "fuck off" ...it was only then that I went had my rant towards you....YOU started the personal name calling...
Posted by: Big bad brad at November 25, 2004 04:04 AM (SgQqe)
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Yo, Laura....
If the above post is a thinly-veiled dig at me, let me remind you that firstly any insults delivered by me were not personal in nature, they were directed in general terms towards your country. It was YOU who first called me "a terrorist loving piece of foreign shit" (I'm NOT by the way...I just dont agree with the official reasons given for the war, and also, I don't think this invasion of Iraq will solve anything in the longer term - just my opinion, which obviously differs to your own) ...then in a later post you told me to "fuck off" - it was only then that I responded with some low-life abuse of my own...THOSE ARE THE FACTS.
Posted by: big bad brad at November 25, 2004 04:10 AM (SgQqe)
144
ooops....double-posted!!!....sorry, website was slow...I do believe you also had this problem earlier in the thread, laura....SEE...we DO have something in common, you just don't want to admit it...LOL. :0)
Posted by: double-vision at November 25, 2004 04:18 AM (SgQqe)
145
YO RODDERS!
The majority of us brits support what is going on, do we? I'd say it's a pretty close run thing...
"Half of British people believe the war in Iraq was unjustified, a survey for the BBC suggests. Almost three quarters of those asked thought the worldwide opinion of Britain had worsened in the light of events in the past two to three years.
Some 46% of the 1,001 Britons questioned by ICM for BBC Breakfast said they were now more afraid of terrorism than they were a year ago.
However, 48% thought British troops needed to remain in Iraq.
Gender split
More women - 55% - than men - 36% - said their fear of terrorism had grown.
But opinion was divided on whether Tony Blair was right to say that British troops should stay in Iraq until the job there was done.
POLL RESULTS
50% thought the Iraq war unjustified
46% were more frightened of terrorism
72% thought view of Britain had worsened
48% thought troops should finish job in Iraq
Just under half - 48% - said this was the right thing to do and 41% said it was wrong.
Women's views tended to differ from men's, with 58% of men agreeing with the prime minister as opposed to 38% of women.
Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Sir Menzies Campbell said the poll showed the deep division that existed in the UK before the fall of Saddam Hussein continued today. "
Posted by: Bbbbbbbbbbrad..... at November 25, 2004 04:32 AM (SgQqe)
146
Hey Cooq, Brad, whatever name you go by hourly. Why ARE you constantly changing your name?
Anyway, the vile and sexist comments you resorted to, towards the end of our debates on the Bigley blog were far worse than anything I called you. Why else would Rusty ban you from the blogs and not me?! Why else have others complained about you as well? Seems to go far beyond any beef with just me.
In any event, I'll well past that. I hope you are too.
;-)
Posted by: Laura at November 25, 2004 09:49 AM (ptOpl)
147
Ok Laura
1. why do I keep changing my name? the answer to that is "why not" ? the name "brad" appears in all my posts (with the exception of the last), so it's pretty obvious who I am throughout this thread....
2. I keep hearing you go on about this "CooquarUK" guy? I genuinely dont know who you are talking about, I can assure you He and I are not one and the same. The first time I visited this site was on this thread. Yes, I overstepped the mark with my remarks about you and Al-zarquawi...but then, you had just told me to fuck off!! So, I'm willing to live and let live on that basis...
3. My summary of the situation is this: you are passionately pro-war, and i'm just as passionately against it on the basis of how & when it started: I can respect your opinion & nobody recieves any personal insults from me, as long as I am not subjected to the same.
However, I reserve the right to criticise your country. Likewise, I will listen to & accept criticism of my own country (I proved this by agreeing with various "anti-queen" posts on here)
Anyway....rant over....take care!!!
Posted by: brad at November 25, 2004 10:45 AM (SgQqe)
148
I didn't become "pro war" until my hometown was savagely attacked. I have since changed my opinions and views about war since then. I just want justice done to the savages that did that, and for all the other atrocities our boys, your boys, and those of innocent Iraqi people that were slaughtered for no reason.
Posted by: Laura at November 25, 2004 01:19 PM (ptOpl)
149
Hi again...
Well, of course I sympathise with anybody who has suffered personally as a direct consequence of war, anybody who has died or been injured needlessly and innocently has my utmost sympathy. As do any relatives or friends of the injured or deceased.
For the record, after 9/11,I could fully understand America's need to lash out & I was in favour of the invasion of Afghanistan and the overthrow of the Taliban, who were sub-humans from the dark-ages... It was also most likely to be where Mr. Bin Laden would have been hiding, and I have no quarrel with America's need to bring him to justice.
What I have issues with is the reasoning by our leaders for the subsequent invasion of Iraq: there has been NO w.m.d. found to date (even though Bush & Blair assured us they existed already, or this was imminent). I find it unforgivable that we have effectively been LIED to by our leaders...I wonder how many dead marines would still be in favour of the war on solely this basis, if they still had a voice?
Another thing...there has been no proven evidence of any Al-queda - Iraq "coalition"... everybody can go on arguing against me to the contrary, but these are the FACTS as they stand, 18 months after the invasion. Our leaders then try to justify the invasion on the basis that Saddam was a tyrant who killed his own people...I agree that he was a despicable tyrant, but an example of misguided US foreign policy was the fact that you SUPPORTED him during the Iraq /Iran war of the 80's, when he was well into his reign. There wasn't much US moaning about human rights abuses against the Iraqi Kurds back then...you certainly didnt feel the need to invade Iraq then?
As for the chap who said Margaret Hassan wouldn't be dead if the US/UK hadn't invaded Iraq...well, unpalatable as it may seem - it's true. The lunatics who captured her wouldn't have had any motive to capture her if we hadn't have been in iraq. They didnt feel the need to capture her in the previous 30 years she lived & worked there, did they?
I must admit, I cannot see why they felt the need to kill her though, she was a shining example - but that is what we are dealing with here: desperate & mindless barbarians, backed into a corner.
On the reasoning for war,a year and a half ago I thought at the time that the U.N. weapons inspectors should have been given more time....and if they had been, we now know of course they still wouldn't have found any W.M.D. and on that basis, a lot of innocent lives (on both sides) would have been spared. Yes, the Iraqi's would still have been living under a despot, but if you are justifying the war solely on that basis, then why didnt you (for example) declare war on China in 1989 after Tiannamen Square? Answer: China have nukes & won't stand for American interference. So, the "make the world a better place" argument being used as the sole reason for the war is a bit weak as well, but that is only my opinion of course...
I just fear for the future. Pressure is beginning on Iran now...apparently the intelligence is "rock solid" this time that Iran may be developing nukes....but where have we heard that before?!? If Iran needs checking over, let's get the U.N. inspectors in, let them do their job TO IT'S CONCLUSION & report back...and PLEASE, if we feel the need to invade anymore countries, wait until the U.N. security council agrees a majority & a timetable for action next time?! That way, we get a real coalition, with majority support. Not unilateralism, which is more or less what we have now.
Posted by: Brad at November 25, 2004 02:42 PM (SgQqe)
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Didn't Sadam keep the extremist groups out of his country? Don't most of those groups come from other countries. Did they return after Sadam was defeated?
Or have I got it wrong? I thought women in Iraq had good education and rights to jobs in high places. When you have psychotic groups that cut off innocent people's heads then it's not as if a country can have a soft leader to keep them out.
Aren't things worse in Iraq than they were before?
A man on a donkey against a super power, Bin laden, is still free and the psychotic extremist groups who aren't fit to be called humans seem to be doing what they like and recruiting more people. What is going on?
What was the war about anyway? The Un said Sadam didn't have any WMDs as they checked before Bush declared war.
Margaret Hassan seemed happy enough to live in Iraq and wasn't under any threat before the invasion of Iraq. In what way has invading Iraq helped anybody in any way?
Suzy, in England.
Posted by: Suzy at November 28, 2004 07:04 PM (SgQqe)
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While I took the Thanksgiving holidays off from my computer, I now can't resist replying to Brad the Cross Legged Bear or whatever it was. I really don't think anyone would trade places with anyone in a third world country. I really think you are confused though. The majority of jobs, not all mind you, but MOST of the jobs that left the USA have gone to Mexico or China. Neither of those are third world countries. Again I ask the question...if the American companies were not in the places they are, where would these people be making any living at all??
I do not consider it an accident of birth that I was born here. I have ancestors who left Europe, as well as Native American ancestors. It has been quite by choice that my family has stayed in America for over 400 years. My European ancestors helped settle Jamestown and were some of the first settlers to arrive here. My Native American ancestors were here long before any Europeans arrived.
There are many problems in the world we live in today. #1 is terrorism. When the USA was attacked, that ended our 'wait and see' approach to anything concerning our safety. Where we perceive a threat, it has to be taken seriously or we could have 9/11 all over again. We know that should anything like that happen again, it will be us to us and us alone to pick up the pieces and go on. Last time proved how much help we'd get from the world. Therefore, since so much of the world is hostile or downright hates the USA, any threat cannot be seen as anything but dangerous.
Just because our way of life allows big businesses to exist, that is not anything that our government or our people can control. If we try to control it, we are lead into a Marxist or communist way of life. Everyone claims not to want that type of government in their countries, but you expect us to allow government to control big businesses. That is not the way of life we want any more than anyone else does. The USA is not the only country that has big businesses. One Far Eastern country has quite a few themselves - Japan. Plus, these terrorists we are dealing with are not goat herders who happened to get a gun given to them by a passing stranger. These are people that are very wealthy people. These are people who have plenty of money to fund terrorist activities, and can do so without even having to work.
Iraq was seen as a threat, as one of two things was going to happen. It is a known fact that at one time Sadam had WMD's. He was planning to build them again as soon as they convinced everyone they were going to be nice and play fair, and the world turned their backs for just one second. When that happened, either the terrorists were going to become Sadam's best friends, or his worst enemies. Either way, they would have access, or close access to those WMD's. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to know where those WMD's would first be used.
It is easy for all other countries to sit and judge or question our motives. We have no desire to take over other countries for our own gain, nor to take over the world. We have other countries adjoining two borders. When we were attacked, our view of the world changed. No longer could we wait and see about anything. We hate to send our soldiers anywhere there is danger. But when we get up in the morning, go to work, and never come home, because of what 19 wicked men with 4 airplanes did, any threat of that happening again must be stopped.
If you don't agree, I'm sorry, but you did not watch on 9/11 as your parents, sisters, brothers, neighbors, children, or best friends died the horrible death those people suffered. All for the sin of going to work to make a living. They went to work in the buildings that terrorists see as a symbol of American business. I can assure you, no one who died that day had any thought of American might on their minds. And it wasn't just a few people that paid that price just for going to work that morning. We had no one backed into a corner on 9/11, so the argument that we are to blame for whose heads the terrorists cut off is about as stupid as any I've heard yet.
Which is worse, having your head cut off or burning alive? Or jumping from the 100th floor of a burning building to keep from burning alive? Terrorists are the ones committing these acts, not us.
Posted by: Mona at November 29, 2004 10:11 PM (J7nZh)
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Way to go Mona! Couldn't have said it better myself. I was afraid you'd been chased away but wanted to reply as soon as I saw your post pop up.
I have a question for anyone caring to answer it. Whose fault is it that 9/11 happened? I'm curious to hear how many say the USA just got what it deserved. Do any of you realize that in the Muslim countries of the world, there were celebrations when that happened? Do any of you realize that terrorist supporters right here in the USA threw parties to celebrate 9/11? I know that happened, as a family who lived not too far from me threw a big party. Ragheads arrived from far and wide and partied the night away until someone called the FBI and they went and arrested several of them, as the party was full of men who were already being hunted as a result of terrorist activities. So don't try to tell us the world sympathized. You were just glad it wasn't happening to you. Let America deal with it, it's their problem. We always get that attitude, so why should we expect any less of any of you now???
For my queen comment, I do have one for tonight...I think the sour look on her face comes from smelling herself. Being such a rusty old fart can't be odorless.
Posted by: Mary at November 29, 2004 10:25 PM (J7nZh)
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The people celebrating in the streets wasn't from 9/11. A blogger said it was a propaganda film shown that was actually filmed during the Gulf War!
Posted by: Laura at November 30, 2004 09:27 AM (ptOpl)
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Hi all (again)
thought this thread had been put to bed, but in response to Mona, I agree with some points you have made, and I still disagree with others (not going to go into details about what and why cos I cant be bothered anymore)so... I won't make another LONG post trying to convince you otherwise, as you are quite clearly brainwashed, well...at least to some degree....can I ask you this? Can you take off your rose-coloured spectacles and admit to anything that your wonderful country might have got even SLIGHTLY wrong over the last 200 odd years?
Posted by: BradleyOystermouth at December 01, 2004 04:24 PM (SgQqe)
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C'mon Brad the Toaster Mouth, you can do better than that! Why not admit you cannot make yourself look at it from the side of the USA, as you are afraid it all might make sense to you. But then again...who do you irritate by agreeing?
Posted by: mary at December 01, 2004 09:31 PM (J7nZh)
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Mary, ... even the lunatic Arab fundermentalists didnt hate our (the UK's) foreign policy to the degree that they felt the need to fly themselves and 4 hijacked planes into any of OUR tall buildings (that may all change now the UK is shootin' from the hip along with the good ol' US of A)....Methinxs the fundamentalists don't like your foreign policy, which is what i've been saying all along, and what drives them to do these things. I think they are pissed off that in 1948 Israel was created at the expense of Palestine, and the US doesnt seem to quite hold Israel (when it is so obviously guilty of wrongdoing) to account in quite the same as everybody else. I rest my case.
Posted by: BBBBBrad at December 02, 2004 07:43 AM (SgQqe)
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The United Kingdom exists today through the courage and fortitude of the people that fought and in many cases died for the principle of freedom. The United Kingdom is composed of several nations and principalites, not just England. Without the support of the United States of America during both World Wars the UK might have been absorbed into a brutal autocratic super-state that viewed only a certain skin/hair/height/eye colour as being sufficient grounds not to enslaved, brutalised or gassed.
Six million people of the Jewish race were killed, men, women and children, by human beings self absorbed in resolving the hell of a previous World War.
Make no mistake, please, the nation of Israel is the root that grew the 'Old Testament' from which sprang the 'Koran' and provided the foundation apon which Christianity could be conceived. Do not 'mess' with Israel [or do so at your own great cost].
We will all die, whether it be one day, several days, one week, a month, one year several years, a decade or several decades.
We each one of us will not reach a stage when we can stand up and say "i am right on my own account"
I am Scottish not English! my family fought in both World Wars and lost generations through it. I am ashamed that we did not stop the sufferings of the people of Israel in the concentration camps. My Uncle at 19, as a bomber pilot was sent on bombing missions ultimately on suicide missions ["gardening in Lorient"] where he died [three weeks floating dead in the sea and attended when beached by the brave French resistance fighters].
The United States of America was founded on a principle of freedom. Yes, the United States of America has great evil as does all countries. She also has proved through some of the worst times in modern history that she is willing and able to stand up for what is right and fight with great honour and courage to pursue a struggle that is based on liberty and freedom. Too many that criticise the United States of America do so because they have the freedom and liberty to do so, thanks in no small way to the sacrifice made by the USA.
Criticism costs little where you have the liberty to express it, it costs a lot when you may suffer slow torture or death. If changes are needed then begin with yourself first, before crying like a defiant child blaming a principle instrument of your succour.
Gordon McGinn
Scottish not English
Posted by: McGinn, Scotland at December 08, 2004 04:01 PM (y7Ltt)
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Margarat Hassan was not murdered by Iraqi's or muslim fundamentalists, but by the secret service of Israel. If you go to any of the legitimate bipartisan middle eastern news organizations, you'll see that this is true. Israel claims publicly to have only 1000 military personel in Iraq, yet they also have 37 rabbis, which would indicate many more. It is well known amongst arabs and iraqis that the CIA and Isreali secret service are present in Iraq.
Posted by: mondo at December 11, 2004 04:50 AM (vQ8Ek)
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Brad
Brad, you and your small little world. If everything was civilized it'd be a great world. John has seen reality. I have seen reality. You can't just say, oh through diplomacy, all will be solved. How will you understand freedom is not free? Have you seen the memorial statue? Walk through, and maybe you'll get an epiphany. The reason you have these rights is because of the soldiers. Margaret Hassan is one of the modest women I have ever seen. I am deeply troubled by her death. You on the other hand, believe you can negotiate with terrorists. You do not see reality. People like you are the disgrace of this world. Please wake up, and join the marine corps.
Posted by: Peter at December 18, 2004 11:07 AM (8T+7E)
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"Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. . . . But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. . . . Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]Â…. Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur'anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim." Ayatollah Khomeini
Now anyone, Democrats included, who think that these lying bastards will ever say anything truthful upon which any hopes or efforts for lasting peace can be based are deceived and pathetic people who will lead themselves only to death and the destruction of democracy forever. This opponent deserves no consideration as operating under the same underpinning and attitudes upon which we ourselves for the most part were raised and educated. They are a primitive and morally degenerate people in their own wickedly perverse fashion. They can be given no quarter, for they will only laugh at any mercy we offer. But what is most obvious now, with many examples, is that they are dedicated, inveterate, cunning and pathological liars, who cannot be believed, and that fact puts the entire so-called "Good Muslims" at severe risk for credibility. If we can trust nothing that they say as truth, we cannot trust them at all.
Posted by: Shep at December 19, 2004 12:40 AM (XsnCL)
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I believe that we invaded Iraq because of the strategic implications of letting other industrialized nations control the flow of oil rather than the US. Lets face it folks, without oil, the American war machine withers and dies (Israel can tell you about that) . I know that if I where part of the militaryÂ’s 200+ IQ think tanks (yes they do exist), oil locations on the planet, and their control would most likely be a primary factor in maintaining military and industrial superiority within this limited gas / fuel powered industrial age. Anyone who says different is either got their head up their ass or is trying to stick you head up your ass!
Posted by: dogbreath at December 20, 2004 02:47 PM (U7jt0)
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Lying arabs,
Posted by: peter at December 21, 2004 05:05 AM (htmLk)
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I have long since stopped weighing up the rights and wrongs of this "war".
I would much rather live in a "Western" civilisation - be it the UK or the USA.
If these towel heads ever took over the world (and that is their objective) I would chop my own fucking head off.
I disagree with their morals, I disagree with their religion, I disagree with their entire philosophy of life.
If these scum want to make their own region Islam personified then that's fine with me but when they bring it upon the civilised world (i.e. 9/11)... then that is time to just retaliate and answer questions later.
Wipe this scum out.
By all means worship God, Allah, The Easter Bunny or whatever shit you want but don't make people die for it and if you are the kind that makes people die for it, be assured that you will be hunted down and you will die by the civilised world.
Sometimes censorship turns to war.
And the next time you're aiming a rock against a tank, ask why that should be.
The USA is but a baby in the great timescale of the world yet Islam is at least a grand-dad.
Living by Islam brings you a rock and living by capitalism brings you a satellite targetted rocket... Hmmm... maybe living by Allah is not as powerful as living by a rational mind after all.
I want this war to pick up speed. I want religion to die tomorrow. If it can't die tomorrow then I want people to realise it no longer has the power to change the world.
God (Allah etc) hasn't spoken for quite some time now.
Let's face it... there's just us. Humans.
We can either spend our lives killing in the name of this shit or decide to help each other and each live a decent and peacful life.
To all Extremist Muslims out there... get the family together and watch Disney's "Jungle Book" one afternoon or go visit your parents then go out to work producing for your country.
It might not get your name in the history books but it's actually not a bad life and no one gets killed.
If you're still hell bent on being famous, write some music, draw some pictures, build a bridge, offer some peaceful philosophy on life and how to live it without resorting to beheading anyone who disagrees.
Basically, learn to love, learn to live, learn not to seek the path of destruction as a means to progress (which in your case means regress).
People like the mod cons, they aint gonna want to regress to the dark ages.
Onwards and upwards, progress, progress, progress... live and let live or die like the dogs your actions prove you to be.
Do this now or do this later but it's the only way forward.
Posted by: Red Devil at December 22, 2004 06:14 PM (QfHcT)
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They are known as Imams, Clerics & Mullahs, we are known as infidels.
In general we are unclean, not to be trusted & looked down upon by both the Sunii & Shiite Muslims.
Specifically, we are hated by many of the Shiite fundamentalists.
There are hundreds of Clerics who plant seeds of hatred towards the infidels & these seeds by the hundreds of thousands are spread across countless square miles of deserts & mountains. These seeds have been producing & multiplying since even before the days of the Crusaders.
I lived in this area for almost nine years, I know the Muslim beliefs, I mingled with the people, I came to admire & even love some of them. I know that I still could have been killed over there strictly on the whim of an extremist Cleric even though I was not "an ugly American".
I am not a dove or some radical protestor, I proudly served during the Viet Nam era in the U.S. Navy.
This "war" is going to be worse than Viet Nam, not in human casualties but merely because we did NOT LEARN from history.
Please contact our President & other elected representatives, urge them to cut our losses & get out, NOW.
The only other option is to take over all the oil fields in Iraq, protect the fields, ship the oil to America & tell OPEC to kiss our all American _ _ _ !!!
Posted by: scott at February 05, 2005 11:53 PM (Bgk8j)
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SOMETHING IS COMING...
Posted by: Christian at February 23, 2005 05:51 PM (oTitt)
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Sick, Sick, Sick , Sick!!!!! fuckin sick!!! thats al i have to say
Posted by: Jon at May 02, 2005 09:25 PM (F1nba)
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Replying to Brad Loveburger III, you should pull a tour of duty in Iraq and meet some of the citizens there. I met many wonderful people there that, while they do not want the US military in their country for an extended period of time, they are truly grateful that we liberated them from a tyrant like Saddam Hussein. Remember it was only sixty years ago that if weren't for the US, you would be speaking German rather than English and saying Heil Hitler. One thing I forgot...it would seem most British are opposed to anyone fighting for their freedom from a tyrant as it happened with your American colonies over 200 years ago.
Posted by: William at May 02, 2005 11:46 PM (YIsTa)
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You are all the nastiest and most vile people I have ever seen. No wonder we got canned. All of you are BUNCH of DUMBASS SHITS. Especially that EVIL BITCH FUCK LAURA and anyone who is a Nasty Fucker!!None of you fuckers are UNITED at all; you patriot wanna-bes...Especially that ignorant fuck Laura. How can you dare call yourself an American when you speak so disrespectfully to your own neighbor. You had it coming BITCH! You should support those who have been hurt in all of this instead of keeping it going you ignorant butch dyke of a cunt!!
Posted by: Connor and Laci at July 23, 2005 12:39 PM (R1pKT)
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how i cried when i heard the news of margaret i hope them disgusting evil sick bastards suffer pain for the rest of their lives then burn in hell forever what on earth had that innocent lady ever done wrong? i pray for margaret still even today that she is at peace in paradise, dont worry margaret them bastards will get their commupence r.i.p.
x x x
katie
Posted by: katie myers at August 12, 2005 12:29 PM (sYwqj)
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those bastards who did it will meet there match what goes around comes around hopefully soon.
i hope they die painfully
Posted by: kevin o'quigley at August 13, 2005 07:03 PM (KF1fi)
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those bastards who did it will meet there match what goes around comes around hopefully soon.
i hope they die painfully.
Posted by: kevin o'quigley at August 13, 2005 07:04 PM (KF1fi)
I has been 13 days since the last time terrorists released a beheading video. The terrorists are on the run. For the past several months they have released a new snuff film at least once a week, sometimes more. With increased US pressure on terrorist strongholds like Fallujah, it seems that the groups responsible no longer have the luxery of producing propaganda films aimed at weakening the resolve of the Allies and at showing the Iraqi people that we are not invincible. This is a good sign. Keep them on the defensive.
Our campaign in Fallujah has uncovered the depths of the morally bankrupt system that is the jihadis dream. Posters were found throughout the city which "listed religious infractions, such as women not covering their heads or men selling music, which would be met with death. " Prisons, torture chambers, dens of beheading, the corpses of the exectued, and even a mutilated body show what life under terrorist rule is like.
While an anti-American propagandist at the Associated Press claims that US Marines were intentionally shooting at all civilians trying to flee Fallujah, those poor souls who suffered under the Taliban like rule of the terrorists tell a different story; "some of whom recount how guerilla snipers shot anyone who tried to leave their home once the assault on the city began."
So, while the mainstream press attempts to focus our attention away from the horror of our enemies toward the infractions of a lone Marine in the heat and passion of battle, let's remember to keep some perspective. We prosecute those who kill the unarmed, they reward them. We are ashamed of such behavior, they celebrate it. Our goal is to liberate the individual from oppression, their's is to oppress the individual through coerced obedience.
Ultimately our moral superiority lies in the fact that the system we fight for is better. Every individual soldier is not better than they, but the system for which they fight is.
This brings up an important question: what should Kevin Sites have done with his story on a lone Marine who murdered a wounded insurgent? The answer is simple: he should have reported the incident up the chain of command, period.
By playing the journalistic whore that he is, he has made things much worse for our fighting men and women. Remember Abu Ghraib? This is worse than Abu Ghraib. Abu Ghraib was nothing more than a bunch of childish pranks which offended cultural sensitivities. This was murder.
When the terrorists murder innocent Westerners they go to great lengths to dress them in the garb of Abu Ghraib. Because of the reckless way in which the media portrayed that scandal, many in the Middle East became convinced that the abuse at the infamous prison was just as bad under the US occupation as it was under Saddam Hussein. Abu Ghraib was the turning point. After Abu Ghraib many in Iraq became convinced that since the Americans were equally brutal, they might indeed have been better off under Saddam Hussein--at least under Hussein there was peace.
Kevin Sites, more interested in a Pulitzer than in the lives of American soldiers, has stolen the victory which was Fallujah and handed us defeat. Already, al Jazeera and the Arab News portray the Fallujah assault as one of murder, mass civilian casualties, and a humanitarian nightmare. Add Sites' report to the mix of lies routinely broadcast around the Arab world and what you get is proof positive, in the eyes of many, that the US is exactly as Noam Chomsky describes it: the world's greatest terrorist.
If this is your worldview, then are you not justified in taking up arms against the US? Those who fight us do so because they believe what they see on TV--America is the oppressor; America is killing children in Iraq on a mass scale; America has brought mayhem to the region; America wishes to destroy Islam; and American soldiers are murderers just like Saddam Hussein or any other corrupt regime in the region.
Because Kevin Sites could not control his journalistic instincts, we will see another onslaught of beheadings. The terrorists will find that they have a sympathetic population and will find new places to locate their torture chambers.
More young men will join the insurgency, because what choice does one have when a foreign power brutalizes your nation. More Americans will die as a result.
Kevin Sites, you are a traitor. Kevin Sites, you have murdered our friends and neighbors. Kevin Sites, I hope you rot in hell.
It has been 13 days since the terrorists last released a beheading video. Do not expect another 13 days to pass before the next one.
UPDATE: It has begun. In addition to al Jazeera and Arab News running this as their headline story, NEIN reports that the jihadis have begun to post the video on Islamic bulletin boards.
UPDATE II: Make that Kevin Sites and Chris Matthews--traitors both.
UPDATE III: Via the Big Picture, this from Article 37, paragraph 1, of the Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949:
It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary and resort to perfidy. ...more...The following acts are examples of perfidy... (b) the feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness
Posted by: Rusty at
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1
You seem to be saying that Sites should have covered up (or at least, not reported) the incident. Am I reading you right, Rusty?
Posted by: Boyd at November 16, 2004 10:11 AM (VeBwJ)
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No, that is not what I'm saying. "he should have reported the incident up the chain of command, period." Not filing a story is not the same as 'covering up'.
Posted by: Rusty at November 16, 2004 10:17 AM (JQjhA)
3
Hi Dr. Shackleford,
Thanks for the link. In a way, I'm leaving it up in the air as to the intent of Kevin Sites. I hope we can learn more about him. It is a possibility his stories are spun by his editors. I raise that as a possibility because I simply find it hard to accept that he might be Blue Falconing the soldiers with whom he is embedded. Surely a normal human being would develop enough empathy with the soldiers to consider what the impact of the story and it's approach on those Marine's lives. If he turns out to be impervious to that and only in to self aggrandizement--then your take is right on!
Posted by: Sue Bob at November 16, 2004 10:19 AM (VZjkz)
4
Sorry, but I'm not in the "murder" corner. What about it is murder? Have we forgotten Michael Spann? Actually, sounds like 1 bullet was shot. That's much better restraint than I would have personally had. Have you seen the video (I have to assume you have)?
Posted by: Editor at November 16, 2004 10:21 AM (adpJH)
5
Speaking as both a combat veteran and a Marine let me make one thing clear. Just because a boy, girl, or man is not wearing a uniform does not mean that the term "civilian" as commonoly used in America applies. In the last 7 years a number of homicide bombers In Isreal have been boys and girls under 10. In Vietnam the Commies used really little kids to get close us and then set off grenades. I am sure the "civilians" shot by the Marines were active combatants. Folks I would not classify as civilian just because he had no uniform. And I would kill the b----- myself. My life or his; allways an easy choice for me. Which is why I am able to make these mean statements today.
Rod Stanton
Cerritos
Posted by: Rod Stanton at November 16, 2004 10:25 AM (a2hGw)
6
While you may feel that just reporting it to the Marine chain-of-command would be the way to handle it, I have to say that accusing Sites of being a traitor is a bit over the top.
And I say this as a retired Sailor and the father of a Marine. If this was a Marine shooting an unarmed, severely wounded enemy, it is he who caused the PR problem, not Sites.
Posted by: Boyd at November 16, 2004 10:25 AM (VeBwJ)
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Creating a problem is one thing, but spreading the news about it will get our boys killed. In war, propaganda is a weapon.
Posted by: Rusty at November 16, 2004 10:27 AM (JQjhA)
8
I just don't see this becoming an enormous story for very long. Nor do I think Abu Ghraib hurt us all that much. It's not as though these creeps need excuses to murder people, and comparison between the way the US deals with the inevitable human failings and the way the enemy does not do so isn't something that people of the Middle East are likely to miss. If they expect perfection of Americans, but still hate us, just how much chance do we have of winning them over anyway?
That said, I think it may be useful to start imposing some costs on the press reflecting the fact that we're at war. Even if they can't always be implemented, knowledge that there may be a price to pay for sedition might serve to throw a little icewater on a small fire or two, before they develop into firestorms. It wouldn't cause me any grief were Kevin Sites to suddenly find himself in the middle of a no-man's-land during a battle some day, with no clear idea how he got there.
I've seen this video on Canadian TV, and it appears to me that this soldier probably thought he was entering the site of a recent engagement where anyone lying around might be a potential threat. It's also possible that he perceived only two possibilities, a dead insurgent or an insurgent pretending to be dead in order to exercise perfidy. There was a famous case involving British forces in which the Brits fired on and killed a group of enemy waiving a white flag. It turned out that prior to the incident a number of enemy had killed a group of British soldiers while under protection of a surrender flag. I think (although I'm not certain) that the Brits who fired on the white flag were acquitted because the perfidy of the enemy had rendered the white flag an unreliable signal of surrender. What most people don't understand is that this sort of perfidy is also considered a war crime.
I suppose it also may matter whether or not the fellow was dead before being shot. Was an autopsy performed to determine the cause and time of death? That might render the whole thing moot, and rob Sites of his journalism award.
Posted by: Demosophist at November 16, 2004 10:46 AM (OtR16)
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I'm agnostic on weather the soldier is guilty of a war crime or not, but my inclination is that he is. What is important is how it is portrayed in the Arab media. The pictures and video are enough. Such pictures should never be allowed out.
Posted by: Rusty at November 16, 2004 11:05 AM (JQjhA)
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Creating a problem is one thing, but spreading the news about it will get our boys killed. In war, propaganda is a weapon.
I'd have a great deal less problem with the idea that Sites is blameless if I felt that those ready to excuse him actually understood the above principle. Alas, I don't think they do. My problem with Rusty's position is simply that I don't think it can be implemented in an airtight manner, as it was during WWII or other conflicts. I also think that if you're going to imbed reporters in a military action these kinds of things will get reported.
I guess I just don't know where I stand here. I'm not convinced that this incident reflects all that badly on the US for lots of reasons, but I am worried that something else might. I don't think it'd be a bad idea to have some sort of potential penalty for reporting information useful to the enemy propaganda machine, and feel that our press is just a little too complacent about that possibility. If the press proves to be of significant service to the enemy, especially if it mis-reports an incident such as this, I can see them ending up at risk on the battlefield. It would be very easy for soldiers to "misdirect" them during an engagement. It might even be enough to bar a reporter from the battlefield. From an organizational perspective these are all group pathologies, and it were far better that we operated without them. But we don't live in an ideal world.
Posted by: Demosophist at November 16, 2004 11:16 AM (OtR16)
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I'd like to know why the media is so hellbent on portraying us as the enemy, and not the enemies themselves? Any propaganda journalism should be outlawed. These people who report this shit ought to be thrown out of the US. That is anti-American to portray our soldiers this way.
Rusty, on the one hand, you said that there hasn't been a beheading in two weeks, inferring that we are winning; on the other hand, you said that this video of the unarmed person being shot by a Marine will surely set off a new round of beheadings? Huh?
Anyway, who knows if the bastard was *really* unarmed? If he was playing dead? So many possibilities; and only one alternative if the Marine gave it a second thought. It was either the Marine or the Iraqi.
Guess what my choice is?
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 11:33 AM (ptOpl)
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Apparently the video shows her being shot, NOT beheaded. Someone may have already poited this out, but I don't have time to read all the comments.
"al-Jazeera said it had been given a videotape showing the shooting of a blindfolded woman thought to be Ms. Hassan"
http://tinyurl.com/6he9o
Posted by: Homer Bombeck at November 16, 2004 01:12 PM (/+d9J)
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My thoughts are with the American soldier, he did the right thing.
I am not there, I haven't seen what he has, I haven't been through what he has. He may have been under the impression that the bad guy may have been concealing a deadly explosive, as I believe other "wounded" Iraquis have. In my view he should shoot first and ask questions later.... I am sure his family would rather visit him in prison than a cemetery.
I am a Brit, I feel it's either the bad guys or us (Yanks & Brits). All our lads are doing a great job, I for one, am very proud of you.
Dotty
Posted by: Dotty at November 16, 2004 01:18 PM (siFAl)
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For you to call the actions of the marine in question a murder then you are completely insane. I have enjoyed reading your website for several months now but for you to refer to this incident as a murder makes you sound like someone from Democratic Underground. This is a war for christ's sake.
Posted by: Robert at November 16, 2004 01:21 PM (db8zB)
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I am an American Soldier. I have served once already in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.
I am eager for the opportunity to serve again.
Any reporter that they send out with us will receive the ass-beating he richly deserves and then will be sent packing. Since he won't be able to climb into my mind, he will be unable to know what I am thinking or feeling the moment I decide that an enemy who stands before me and wants me to die catches a bullet from my M-4 Carbine.
The only way that the reporter avoids an ass-beating is if he works for Fox News, Drudge Report, or Rusty himself.
Posted by: David at November 16, 2004 01:37 PM (xfI1/)
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If anyone has any hints on how to get this scumbag Sites' press credentials pulled, I'll make a donation, write a letter or place a call. I can't stand the thought that GIs might risk their lives to protect some scumbag shooting "gotcha video" at their expense.
Why on earth don't we have military reporters? At least they know what a prisoner is. And they wouldn't shoot video that could be used as al-jazeera recruiting tools.
Posted by: avenuebalum at November 16, 2004 02:18 PM (nTEvo)
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POINT: On question of murder. An enemy soldier not in uniform? According to the Geneva Convention the killing of enemy combatants out of uniform is legal. They call themselves an Army. By self admission we should be killing every one of them. I could swear I heard someone yelling (He's faking) before a shot was fired.
Our soldiers are supposed to take chances around a bunch of beheading asshole terrorists/insurgents? Bullshit!
On Kevin Sikes.
The news media has their Kevin Sikes.
We have our trr.
Think about it.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 02:42 PM (UkXdy)
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I say they should let the insurgents have him he'd make for a great beheading video. The marines should have no obligation in nursemaiding him.
Posted by: Andre at November 16, 2004 02:56 PM (hD5mx)
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Very good points. The more I think about it and the more I hear your arguements the less I am inclined to think of it as murder-in the strictest sense. It may just have been bad judgement in the context of the normal confusion and haze of battle.
Let's suppose, for a moment, that it was murder. Making this assumption, releasing the video was still wrong. If you check out al Jazeera's site right now the headlines show the images. They won't show terrorists killing civilians, but when a Marine does it....This is what Muslims see every day. It is why they hate us. They truly believe we are murderers. Man I'm pissed off!!!
Posted by: Rusty at November 16, 2004 02:57 PM (JQjhA)
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I have seen the video. Shots rung out but they totally blocked any images of the wounded Iraqi being shown shot point blank. It is known these bastards are armed, whether it's a gun they're toting, or explosives.
Marines have walked into piles of dead bodies, only to discover booby traps among the dead. How are they to know whether this wounded guy (if he indeed WAS wounded) whether or not he is hiding a gun or an explosive? They are there to FIGHT and DEFEND, not to judge who lives and who dies. In my opinion, anyone who was stupid enough to remain there is an insurgent. If they aren't technically, then tough. They had their chance to get the hell out, along with the 200-300,000 or so neighbors of theirs.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 03:06 PM (ptOpl)
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Hell mosques have been turned into military headquarters. So we should hit them hard, KABOOM type deal over there in Iraq. Strap that Kevin moron on a 1000lbs bomb and drop him on one. Kill two birds with one stone. Or one twit and one bird, depends how you view it.
Posted by: Andre at November 16, 2004 04:11 PM (hD5mx)
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I watched the video on al-jazeera the man was lying on his back when the
soldier said he's f...... faking it then shot him
at point blank range. IT also looks as if they are pointing out another older man who had been shot with arrows pointing to bullet marks on a wall that didnt appear to be there initially when they entered. So because i dont understand the lingo and i dont know what they are saying it looked to me as if the were implying he had been
alive but wounded when they arrived but was also shot dead. If anyone can make out what they are
saying or if i have just got this all wrong please let me know. They seem to be making a meal out of this anyway.
Posted by: L R at November 16, 2004 06:56 PM (SgQqe)
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It's not murder, its business. Marines are under no obligation to capture or treat unlawful combatants illegally using sanctuary. Furthermore, from a tactical standpoint, Marines are under no obligation to subjugate the safety of themselves, their comrades, and members of the press to a wounded or seemingly immobilized unlawful combatant. Clearly Sites/Matthews/MSM hacks et al are traitorous scum, but this is not news. This Marine might have saved his own life and the lives of everybody on the scene by his decisive action. That is not murder. That is business. Froggy
Posted by: Froggy at November 16, 2004 07:25 PM (E1hup)
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Well done Froggy, well done.
Posted by: grreyrooster at November 16, 2004 10:15 PM (YpcV2)
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I'm not really as inclined to blame Sites as I am to blame MSNBC. Remember, he just reported what he sees, they edit out the ambushes and the booby trapped dead bodies and pull a clip that appears to be something evil and hype it up. If you were to read Daily KOS's or Atrios' take they would have you believe that Bush and Rumsfeld gave the order to hold summary executions. We know where the politics of NBC lie. If they can't have a democrat president they'll do their best to get the republican we have impeached. I believe that to be their ultimate goal.
Posted by: Jeremy at November 17, 2004 12:56 AM (PJ4Iq)
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This war is a war fought in living rooms all over the world.
This incident is a further example that the MSM is the real enemy and needs to be dealt with accordingly. I think that the embeds have been, on the whole a good idea, but all of their material needs to go through censorship and they should not be entitled to retain any permanent records thereof or to make any public statements about it without being subject to censorship.
As for al-Jazzera, Al-Reuters, al-BBC and the rest of the arab media. Anybody with a camera should be treated like any terrorist with an AK47 or an RPG.
Posted by: Robert Schwartz at November 17, 2004 10:06 AM (wkd/n)
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I'll open the bidding at $100,000 for identifiable remains of Kevin Sites.
Posted by: Noram Sinned at November 17, 2004 10:11 AM (4ZVUI)
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The ironic part about Sites is that they are claiming that he was a "battle veteran"...where I wonder?
Why not just bar reporters period, and let one of the soldiers do the recordings? I heard the soldiers can tell the reporters to get the hell out of their area. Why did the Marine shoot the Iraqi right there in full view of the camera if he knew it'd be recorded for all to see?
Posted by: Laura at November 17, 2004 10:28 AM (ptOpl)
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Kevin Sites is a Dhimmi.
Posted by: CountZero at November 17, 2004 01:05 PM (ztsBT)
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I wonder why the Marine hasn't been pulled from duty.
Posted by: John at November 19, 2004 01:26 AM (Jq8H8)
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He has.
Posted by: Laura at November 19, 2004 09:07 AM (ptOpl)
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I think it's a little soon to be branding Kevin Sites as a traitor. None of us were there. And maybe he did get permission to air his video. That still has not been established. I will agree that this video has produced a backlash of press that could endanger our boys and girls over there but I think you've done just as much damage if not more. You've apparently revealed this marines name and who was the source of that name. Curious because its as irresponsible, as your claim Kevin sites of being.
Posted by: Mrs greyhawk at November 19, 2004 09:18 AM (xA7u2)
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These right wing nut-jobs won't ever realize who the real murders are. They are hoplessly indoctrinated, and U.S. fascism would not be possible without their ignorance and faithful support. I luv how these rightwing neo-fascists are so quick to label Citizens in their own country as terrorists, or insurgents. I think it would serve them well to learn a little bit about international law. ( though I know they never will, as facts elude them ) The people of an occupied nation enjoy a 'God-Given' Right to resist the occupation. This does not make them criminals, this makes them men who are protecting their country from invasion. We all have a right to self defense. And since they keep bringing up how these savages behead people and kill americans, I would like someone to name just one american that was beheaded or killed prior to the illegal invasion of their country. ( and if one of you nazi supporters brings up Iraqi involvment in the WTC catastrophy, you will truly show you stupidity ) In my opinion the U.S. fascists are the real terrorist savages. It is far more brutal and cowardly to kill innocent women and children ( at least 100,000 killed by U.S. bombings ) in air-raids. I know I do not need to explain this to anyone with common sense, or the slightest inclination towards civility. I also realize that the people who need to learn these lessons never will. Carry on Christian Fascists, I am truly ashamed that ye are our countrymen !
Posted by: alexx at April 04, 2005 05:42 AM (tEZjp)
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If the white man came down to Africa with the intent of helping them and bringing christianity, eneded up taking thier gold and thier youth as slaves, why should anyone trust Foreing occupation. I do not support the beheadings and all that, by the so-called terrorists but one would result to anything to get rig of foregn ocupation. I DO not really blame these terrorists for thier actions.
I see it as self defence
Posted by: victor at May 04, 2005 03:49 AM (Y0MB9)
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I've seen the video that Sikes made and I'm glad that he showed it to the world.
It isn't the first time that US soldiers did things against the Geneva convention and it won't be the last. I hope that the Iraqi's kill each and everyone of those murdering American bastards.
Just as the US gov. used weapons with radioactive components in other places in the world, they always think that they are God all mighty. They aren't.
If they would treat the peoples of the world with respect, they would get respect in return.
For those that think that I'm some anachist or anti-war campaigner, I'm not.
I myself am a former soldier (15 years) in one of the European armies, and I served in Somalia, Chad, Djibuti, Somalia and the former Yougoslavia.
At this momment I'm suffering from radiation sickness (due to US weapons).
If my health was better I would have fought the US soildiers myself.
The only reason for the war is money. Bush and his gang are getting rich while the soldiers in both camps are getting killed and nothing will change that. The US people will only see what the Bush gang want them to see.
60 Years after Hitler, we've got a new one called Bush.
Posted by: A N at May 11, 2005 08:01 PM (XBdDl)
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I was in the unit that the Marine who killed the insurgent was in. I was actually about 2 klicks west of that mosque when it happened. Not to mention the fact that he and I went through Scout/Sniper school together. Kevin Sites DID turn the video in to the chain of command. If the US is going to vote to send us in to every dumbass war the comes along, they need to see what war is like. If none of you like it, then enlist and come over here. Man up, chickenhawks.
Posted by: Martymarine at November 07, 2005 10:37 PM (hkDhl)
November 15, 2004
Holiday Wish List
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08:08 PM
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1
Mine would be the time traveler thing that Star Trek used so I could bring my Fiance home safe and sound and never let him leave again
Beam him up Scotty!!!
Beam him up Scotty!!!Posted by: Susan at November 16, 2004 08:03 AM (3pOYP)
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*purr* Dat's sexy!
Posted by: Princess Kimberley at November 16, 2004 08:27 AM (Z/F0V)
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Too pricy. How about a nice football instead?
Posted by: Preston Taylor Holmes at November 16, 2004 10:43 AM (WsZ4F)
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Price is not an issue if he comes home safe dude!
Posted by: Susan at November 16, 2004 10:47 AM (3pOYP)
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Will no one cough up, what is that in Dollars, like 8 grand!! You cheapskates!!!! ;-)
Posted by: Rusty at November 16, 2004 04:31 PM (JQjhA)
US Warplane Shot Down by Terrorists Identified
*****EXCLUSIVE TO THE JAWA REPORT****MUST CITE JAWA REPORT****
Mike at Sworn Enemy sent me this link from John of Argghhh! Could it be that we have solved the mystery we first noticed a little over a week ago? US 'Warplane' shot down by terrorists:
US 'Warplane' launched near Samarra as reported by John:
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Zarqawi Update
Two quick hits before I go, via Chad. 1) Looks like another message from Zarqawi. It seems he's given up on Fallujah, but don't expect it to become pascified any time soon. 2) The leader of Jaish Muhammad, Moayad Ahmed Yasseen (also known as Abu Ahmed) was arrested in Fallujah. The man is said to have cooperated with Zarqawi in several beheading murders in Iraq.
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This is great news! Now that this guy was arrested, he may possibly be able to say where Zarqawi is hiding out.
Were those fuckers that stupid to think they would win?
Posted by: Laura at November 15, 2004 07:40 PM (ptOpl)
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Abu Ahmed should received what he gave. Oh, only if we didn't have to listen to the crys of the liberal terrorist supporting America hating assholes. PAYBACK IS IMPORTANT.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 15, 2004 09:10 PM (iWXp3)
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Let him fess up where the other cells are hiding out, then behead him and send the tape to Al Jazeera.
Notice how Zarqawi gave a message to his insurgents to fight with their lives if necessary to get the enemy (us) while his cowardly ass is safely tucked away somewhere FAR away from Fallujah?
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 08:23 AM (ptOpl)
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first of your a ignorant we lose the war in iraq long time ago and zarqawi won i know you dont like the true well keep deluding yourself more thad we won the war in iraq and dont get mad becuse zarqawi is going to be on the history books like a great fighter alexander the great and napoleon bonaparte and no i dont like osama i admire fighters true fighter zarqawi got injured so many times and look at him still fighting wow thads incredible a men who stands up and fight for what he belives thads what you call a hero and yes he beaheads people but in wars you have the right to kill a person however you desire thads what we call the nature of wars you dont know anyting about wars my friend sorry ignorant so the war is about wining and his doing everyting he can to win, witch it works and now he won the war now he has to wait for us to depart from iraq ignorant. i Admire george washington he was a great fighter to ignorant he was the only one alive and got shot so so many times and thad why the people pick him to be our leader. dont you ge it we are the bad guys right now trying to steal oil form the poor country lol iam glad we lose lol ignorant.
Posted by: monica at October 05, 2005 07:19 PM (kgRG0)
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if our country was invaded i would do everyting to win same what zarqawi is doing yes if zarqawi gets kill is over but i know his legend will live and thads what you cant take away from him ignorant
Posted by: monica at October 05, 2005 07:25 PM (kgRG0)
148 Killed in Chinese Jihad
Could China be on the brink of a bloody civil war with it's Muslim minority? Samuel P. Huntington noted in his groundbreaking book, The Clash of Civilizations, that, "The borders of Islam are bloody." In addition to China's large Muslim minority, it also shares borders with Pakistan, Kyrgistan, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan--all Muslim countries. While sectarian violence is not unheard of among the other great religions of the world, there is something unique about Islam in that 9/10 of those conflicts is between Muslims and their neighbors, or between Islamists fighting secular Muslim regimes. Here is a map of armed conflicts around the world for 2003. For all the latest news on China, I suggest following Simon's biweekly Asia by Blog report.
Could China be on the brink of a bloody civil war with it's Muslim minority? Samuel P. Huntington noted in his groundbreaking book, The Clash of Civilizations, that, "The borders of Islam are bloody." In addition to China's large Muslim minority, it also shares borders with Pakistan, Kyrgistan, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan--all Muslim countries. While sectarian violence is not unheard of among the other great religions of the world, there is something unique about Islam in that 9/10 of those conflicts is between Muslims and their neighbors, or between Islamists fighting secular Muslim regimes. Here is a map of armed conflicts around the world for 2003. For all the latest news on China, I suggest following Simon's biweekly Asia by Blog report.The fighting broke out after a Han youth crashed his motorcycle into a Hui builder's tractor, tipping it over. The confrontation soon escalated into pitched battles between mobs armed with shovels and hammers. Molotov cocktails were launched across the river between Nanren and Weitang - the former predominantly Hui, the latter Han - and Huis from around the country flocked to assist their beleaguered brothers.more...A local imam said that one of his followers was found beheaded in rice paddy ditches, a Hui official told The Sunday Telegraph. "They share the same market, but the Hui people are insulted by the Han's behaviour," he said. "The Han stallholders try to sell them pork, pushing it in front of their faces all the time. Now the imam says the Han in Weitang are savages who mock our traditions by cutting our throats."....
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I wonder how well Jihad will go over with the "benevolent" Chinese leadership?
Posted by: Gordon at November 15, 2004 05:07 PM (dEFhD)
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How can they not love pork? Mmm. Chinese Sweet and Sour Pork.
Posted by: Bill Dautrive at November 15, 2004 05:47 PM (G95Uf)
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mmmmmmmmmmm, pork.........
Posted by: Rusty at November 15, 2004 08:47 PM (JQjhA)
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The Han (who represent a little over 90% of China's population) have long had a well-deserved reputation for chauvanism and government-supported efforts to undermine the distinctive cultures, languages, and other manifestations of non-Han ethnic identity among the minority peoples of the empire. And the modern state of China IS an empire in much the same way the Soviet Union was (except with less tolerance of separate identity among the conquered people). The eastern part of China has only sporadically controlled what is now the western half of China over the past few millenia, and the regions bordering Korea and Vietnam also feature indigenous people who generally do not identify themselves as members of the Chinese state.
Given that, it's only natural that the Hui (who look a lot like Hans but are Muslims) and Uyghurs (from Xinjiang--they look more like other Central Asians) would identify with coreligionists who also are widely portrayed as subjugated to foreign influence.
In short, don't forget that such statements are the only way the Chinese state will allow the Hui to express (indirectly) their resentments against Han domination. Beijing has no proximate cause to further repression of the Imams for opposition to US and/or Israeli policies, but complaining about the even harsher line taken by Beijing will get an Imam jailed and/or executed (and, besides, many of the Imams owe their positions to Beijing anyway, through the official state religious organs).
Posted by: Jem at November 16, 2004 04:02 AM (u1JGo)
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FROM: MRS.JAMILA.ABDULRAHMAN
PRAISE ALLAH, THE MOST
BENEVOLENT.
I am the above named person from Egypt. I am married
to Late Abdul Rah man. Of blessed memorial who worked with oil petrochemical in England for ten years before he died in oil spillage in offshore work when he went to supervice an project in the year 2001. We were married for fifteen years
without a child. He died after the accident oil spillage illness that lasted for only one week.
Before his death we were both very devoted Muslims and
since his death I too have been battling with both
cancer and fibroid problems, when my late husband was
alive he deposited the sum of: 16.000.000. Million (Sixteen
Millions pounds.
with an oversea security company and Presently this money is
still with the Security Company. Recently, my Doctor
told me that I would not last for the next three
months due to cancer problem. Though what disturbs me
most is my stroke sickness.
Having known my condition I decided to donate this
fund to either a Moslem organization or devoted
Muslim individual that will utilize this money the way
I am going to instruct here- in. I want this Muslim
organization or individual to use this money in all
sincererity to fund mosques, orphanages, widows and
also propagating the word of ALLAH and to ensure that
the society upholds the views and beliefs of the holy Quran.
The holy Quran emphasized so much on ALLAH'S
benevolence and this has encouraged me to take this
bold step. I took this decision because I donÂ’t have
any child that will inherit this money and my husband
relatives are new Christians converts and I donÂ’t want
my husbands hard earned money to be misused by people
I call unbelievers. I donÂ’t want a situation where this
money will be used in an unholy manner
Hence the reason for taking this bold decision, I know
that after death I will be with ALLAH the most
beneficent and the most merciful, I donÂ’t need any
telephone communication in this regard because of my
health and the presence of my husb! ands relatives
around me always, I donÂ’t want them to know about this
development.
With ALLAH all things are possible. As soon as I
receive your reply I shall give you the contact of the
Security Company. I will also issue you a letter of
authority that will prove you as the original-
beneficiary of this fund. I want you and the Muslim
community where you reside to always pray for me; my
happiness is that I lived a life of a true devoted
Muslim worthy of emulation.
Whoever that wants to serve the ALLAH must serve him
in truth and in fairness. Please always be prayerful
all through your life. Any delay in your reply will
give me room in sourcing for a Muslim organization or
a devoted Muslim for this same purpose
Until I hear from you, my dreams will rest squarely on
your shoulders. May the almighty ALLAH continue to
guide and protect you?
Regards,
Mrs.Jamila.Abdulrahman
Posted by: jamila at December 20, 2004 04:11 PM (3H16+)
Al Qaeda Bringing Nukes Over Mexican Border?
It's not so much that I'm anti-immigration as I am pro-controlling the border so I don't wake up one morning to find my native Los Angeles is lost in a nuclear holocaust. This Time magazine article reports that al Qaeda is keenly aware of weak border protections and planning to use it against us.
A key al-Qaeda operative seized in Pakistan recently offered an alarming account of the group's potential plans to target the U.S. with weapons of mass destruction, senior U.S. security officials tell TIME. Sharif al-Masri, an Egyptian who was captured in late August near Pakistan's border with Iran and Afghanistan, has told his interrogators of "al-Qaeda's interest in moving nuclear materials from Europe to either the U.S. or Mexico," according to a report circulating among U.S. government officials.Both Charles at LGF and Robert Spencer at Jihad Watch connect the Time magazines mention of a missing plane to other similar incidents. My only question: Can you fit a nuclear weapon into a pinata?Masri also said al-Qaeda has considered plans to "smuggle nuclear materials to Mexico, then operatives would carry material into the U.S.,"
PS- More here (hat tip Dan)
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I'm against any further immigration until our jobless rate hits 0% anytime that a country says "we need more immigrants because we need workers" all the while they say, well, we have a 4% unemployment rate is courting disaster. Our lax policies have only brought in gangs and now the terrorists see our soft policy as the soft underbelly from which to attack us with. Our politicians knew this too, but since they side with big business and cheap labor is always good for the big business but not so good for the little guy they'll keep it up and we'll be the ones getting hurt in more ways than just in our pockets.
Myths about immigration (and freetrade) are that they make products cheaper. Not really, they just increase the bottom line that is all what big business wants, i've seen the outcome of this steadly rising in my area as more and more people are holding up cardboard signs begging for work and/or food and money.
Sooner or later we're going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. I just hope its not too late. :-/
Posted by: Andre at November 15, 2004 02:15 PM (hD5mx)
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We also have to stop employing overseas positions. Every time I call customer service, I get some raghead in India, Pakistan, wherever, and I can't even understand them!
Too many medical professionals working in hospitals too that I can barely understand. Pretty rude and abrupt too, I might add.
We should have closed the borders during Carter's regime. That's when this crap really started...after the Iran hostage situation we just marked that anniversary last week.
Posted by: Laura at November 15, 2004 02:30 PM (ptOpl)
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The borders of this country have never been sealed, EVER! Since before the days of Pancho Villa, as well as other border raiders, the US have never wanted to seal the border, the simple reason is cheap seasonal labor. Its all great when we complain we are paying $1.00 to 2.00 (mattering how close you are to the border) a head of leatuce, but no one takes those seasonal jobs because the no one will pay the prices for expensive labor. Everyone wants the expensive car in the drive way, the 150 channel digital video feed on our big screens, and big homes ... all at the bargain basement cost. Well the only cost you can control effectivly (which is your biggest target) is the labor to make the cheap expensive vehicle, laying of cables, and construction of those houses. We as a national will never seal the borders in this country. Everyone tries to make it a partisan issue ... which it is; the lying scum on both sides of the aisle dont care or give a shit.
Posted by: Salamander at November 15, 2004 04:04 PM (W2YA6)
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Well, maybe not the Mexican borders, as most of them are hard working people and don't want to behead us!
But the Mid East borders? Now that's another story.
Posted by: Laura at November 15, 2004 04:09 PM (ptOpl)
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Andre, 4% unemployment is almost too low. People have to change jobs for a variety of reasons, and ineffecient businesses have to close. Therefore, there will alway be unemployment. This is how it works. You could NEVER have a 0% unemployment rate because in order to get new workers to fill openings companies would have to pay even more, which would eventually cause inflation to rise. Like it or not, higher unemployment means lower inflation.
Posted by: Maureen at November 15, 2004 06:12 PM (ny5O/)
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ditto maureen. Actually, the ideal unemployment rate is somewhere in the 5% rate. Anything below that would also be a sign of a stagnant society. We want technological changes.
Posted by: Rusty at November 15, 2004 08:49 PM (JQjhA)
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I could beg to differ, as a college graduate I haven't been able to find a job as a programer in the 3 years since college, hell i can't even get a job selling computers! I've worked bussing tables got a taste of mex up close with one who was rude obnoxious, arrogant and snottily ignorant, needless to say after a week of taking it I quit that job and got another flipping burgers. Needless to say, i'm not "loving it" as I hear more an more doublespeak and triple speak from corporations who just really want to squeeze the last dime out of what is left of the middle class so that we can have a return back to the pre-1900's as far as monopoly corporations go. Sure this seems all good and find himming and hawing about it, but once a cold dose of reality hits you its like getting ice cold water thrown on you while you are in a deep sleep. Nothing wakes you up faster than that.
Posted by: Andre at November 15, 2004 09:13 PM (hD5mx)
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Laura/Andre......I dont know anything about your ancestor's heritage but if you are not aware, let me be the first to inform you that they were economic migrants as well. Were your ancestors not allowed to enter the US, then chances are that you both would not be here today.
The issue is about Al Qaeeda using the Mexican border as a way of entering the US, not for you two nobodies to complain about your dislike of foreigners. Would it make a difference if the health professionals you have a problem with hailed from Europe, Laura? Or do you dislike them because they are educated and successful? Lift yourselves out of the gutter and in particular your attitudes. After all the US is the land of opportunity for those prepared to work hard and also have the ability.
Posted by: James at November 16, 2004 06:02 AM (4PPsx)
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James its the simple fact society has to have an enemy: witches, Moors, savage natives, Chinese, Germans & Japaneses, Africans, Latinos, Indians / Pakistanis / Bangladeshis, and now Araps. Society always has to have that boogie man to keep the mindless (never under-estimate the power of stupidity in numbers) amongst the population like sheep to follow the leader. Fear of what your people dont know is the biggest stick you can have.
Posted by: Salamander at November 16, 2004 07:11 AM (F26eZ)
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Salamander.
I agree with you up to a point. I would say that it is only certain elements of society who are opposd to immigration, that is those who feel that they are in competition with the immigrants, namely those on the lowest rung of the economic ladder and the uneducated. Fear and ignorance are great bedfellows.
Posted by: James at November 16, 2004 07:50 AM (4PPsx)
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Bullshit James. I'd be here, just in Italy. The difference bet. the immigration to Ellis Island back in the early 1900's is that they were PROUD to become American citizens, learned the language and were hard working people.
Can't say the same for the ones immigrating to America today. Some came over to learn how to kill us.
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 08:57 AM (ptOpl)
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Case in point.
Ignorant. Uneducated and now paranoid.
Posted by: James at November 16, 2004 09:29 AM (4PPsx)
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Germany had near zero unemployment. So to make up for it they allowed uncontrolled immigration. Now they have 11 million problems to deal with.
On the immigration issue. Can't relate to recent (last 100 yrs) as my family has been here from the formation of this great country.
It seems to me that the Irish, Brits, Italians, Germans, Swedes, etc: joined the rest of America. Many even changing their names to appear what they wished to be, namely an American. They dressed, acted, behaved like Americans as quick as they could. They practised the majority religion. They quickly assimilated and their loyality was not is question.
My people came to an empty land. Formerly, sparcely occupied by a people who were not a nation. They hadn't approached the iron age. No steel, no horses. Life must have been tough as they apparently fought each other constantly. They didn't have the wheel, domestic animals, a written language, a central government. Bless them, but the truth is 400 yrs ago and forever past that, more advanced societies always prevailed. That was the way it was through out the world. Even the Ameridians constantly displaced each other. Thru war and slaughter I might add.
My ancestors came to a new land, to make a country.
Recent immigrants are coming to reap what my ancestors have sowed. They haven't paid the price. My family has had it's members take part in or be killed in every war this nation has fought. I was raised by a good man. He was my step father because my father was an army air corps pilot who didn't come back from the pacific in 1943. Even my step day fought in WW2.
I served in Viet Nam and my only son is now in Iraq.
This policy of opening our doors to everyone is crazy. They are not coming here for any other reason but economic. I understand their point. I hope they understand my point. Which is. We have plenty of people already. Don't believe it? Try an Los Angeles freeway. In some areas water is even rationed.
Perhaps those that wish to immigrate here should stay and fight to make their countries better. That's what I would do. Perhaps America can help them be like America. It's apparent that is what they wish to be like or they wouldn't be coming here. I wish the rest of the world good luck. I wish to be your friend. I wish to help you if I can. Come and visit. But please if you can't or won't be like us then stay where you are. We have enough problems already.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 09:54 AM (UkXdy)
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ANDRE: Can't find a programing job? wow! Try another geographical area. I know some kids (to me anyway) recently hired at 70K. Right out of school. I believe they majored in computer science.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 16, 2004 10:02 AM (UkXdy)
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Have to agree pretty much with the last posting.
Visit America by all means,have a great vacation,enjoy your stay,but dont give us any problems,and most of all go back home
at the end of it.
Posted by: sopotamia at November 16, 2004 10:52 AM (aDsLR)
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James, you have no clue about immigration, its history, or are even remotely connected to it.
I have no problem with people who have come here, became citizens and learned the language. However, we are talking about a long time ago. The immigrants coming over here now, do NOT learn the language properly, do not dress American, and insist on bringing their cultures, dress, religion and language with them. That's fine to be proud of your heritage but when taking up space in another country, you must become like them. You cannot expect to talk Arabic, Hindi, or whatever and get a job or be respected.
My brother is a medical doctor. He sees many jobs being taken in major hospitals by foreign doctors, nurses, and other personnel. They smell to high heaven. They cannot be understood. These are people's LIVES we are talking about! These are sick people who need to be in a sterile environment. If you cannot make your needs met as a patient to these people, what kind of medical care do you expect to get?
Of course, it's our fault. We hire these people because they accept cheaper wages. Same with the computer and telemarketing industries. Many, many jobs are being taken from Americans because the jobs are sent overseas. That is a major reason why there is so much unemployment.
The heavy, physical labor is done mostly by Mexicans. America is lazy, they do not want to do the jobs they do. I don't have a problem with Mexicans. They are hard working, religious people. There are plenty of them here in Texas. And no, I am NOT in NYC. I was born and raised there, not there now.
Maybe you don't have that problem in the land of down under. Why is it that people who aren't even in America seem to have all the answers or think they do?
Posted by: Laura at November 16, 2004 11:47 AM (ptOpl)
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why
Posted by: michel myers at December 13, 2004 02:37 PM (72NLY)
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Fuck off
Posted by: michel myers at December 13, 2004 02:39 PM (72NLY)
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hey guys !!!!!!!!!
just chillax. the worlds a free place and we the bloody hell can get our life's worth only by working in ur countries.UR govt the hell wants us to build up it's technical base. we are wanted for our intellect as ur COUNTRY has not an ounce of originality. we get recognizeed for our talent and in the process barter out some heavy quid!!!!
we will IMMIGRATE in search of jobs to america.
SEE YOU THERE SOON...........
Posted by: arjun at January 05, 2005 07:37 AM (2pQ/l)
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You must have heard the news, right. Supposebly a Mexican doctor smuggled in four Asian guys through the borders of Mexico in the States. It was reported to Cals. Highway Patrol, but these four guys are heading our way.....to Boston....why not D.C.?
e
Posted by: e at January 19, 2005 04:52 PM (+7VNs)
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We all know that the United States is a country populated by imigrants. We are also a nation of laws, or so we claim. My ansestors came here only after having followed an established and legal procedure that was anything but easy or quick.
We still have the same laws pertaining to how one can come to this country and become a citizen. Every time I hire a new employee, I am still required to use and file an I-9 form, insuring that the new employee is here legally. If I fail to follow this procedure, or am caught with illegals working for me, I am subject to heavy fines and prison time....check the laws!
Just an opinion, but I believe that we are being steered away from life as we have always known it to be in this country...because the only way that we can compete in a global economy, is to gradually lower our overall standard of living. This is why you keep hearing about the ever widening gap between the haves...and have-nots...and it's only just started.
Those of you who have not yet noticed any adverse effects in terms of your ability to maintain your standard of living...will continue to discredit most if not all of what many are saying about the path we are now on as a nation. In time...maybe soon, maybe not so soon, those same people (will) be adversely effected...in some way.
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