Scroll down for high resolution photos.
This one was taken by the NOAA on August 31st of this year. It was done as part of an aeriel assesment of hurricane damage. You can see the original photo here to verify its accuracy. Compare it to the one that Paul has up, and you'll notice that it is the same depot by the large water stain. I'll assume he and Kevin are calling it the Algiers Bus Depot correctly.
To put that date into perspective, Hurrican Katrina hit in the wee hours of August 29th (Monday morning) and the levies began to break at 11:00 that morning. This photo, then, was taken on Wednesday afternoon, 48 hours after the hurricane hit and smack in the middle of when news reports were coming out about the horrible conditions in the Superdome. Click below for larger version.
Now look at the photo. Carefully. Notice something about the busses? They are moving. It looks like three police vehicles are waiting to escort them. In the upper left corner you can see one police vehicle already moving. [Update: To put this into context this means that these busses were fully functional and could have been used at any time to help start the evacuations.] But do they go to the Superdome to help evacuate people? No. Then where are they moving to? Let's look at another piece of this very large photo. Click for larger image.
Yes, those are the missing busses from the photo. Yes, that is a large group of people getting on the busses.
In fact, my first impression was that I must have this wrong. That the dates must be wrong. But:
The date of our two photos above? The original is named 24428420.jpg, in other words August 31st!
Where is all the freaking flooding?!?!! From the news it seemed as if the entire city was under water. That maybe a few places here or there escaped the rising waters, but the majority of the city was under water. Where is it all?
Pictures do tell a distorted view of reality. Geraldo Rivera on a deserted street is not headline news. Geraldo Rivera floating down a street is. So, if you're a producer you find the areas of worst damage and then show those pictures. You don't show images of the other 75% of the city that wasn't damaged near as much.
And while most of the city was busy getting out, reporters were camped out broadcasting the worst images and the people in the worst conditions and acting as if it was a typical experience.
More later.
So, in summation, Nagin is an idiot. That is all.
PS-And I'm spent......
1
Rusty you are so close yet so far....
The flooding was on the EASTBANK. (here is the confusing part, the river flows north at canal street so the EASTbank is on the WEST side of the picture) The westbank never flooded. That's the whole point.
Go follow my link ... oh what the heck,
here it is again look on the EAST side of the river (well west um, left) and you will see flooding. (and notice the Dome roof is ripped)
I did not make the google map Rusty.
NOW- As to your image. If you note, the images on google maps were taken at 10am. Look carefully at the shadows then compare the shadows in your picture. It is the same day but many hours later. (go look)
Apparently they figured out they had the busses mid-day on Wednesday. But STILL did not use them to get people out the dome. Either way, they sat for 48 hours.
Gentle Reminder Rusty... If you are going to say one of my links is wrong, you might follow it before you say it buddy. ;-)
P
Posted by: Paul at October 04, 2005 07:50 PM (yVS2b)
2
As Paul said, you might want to find out if Algiers is a different municipality than New Orleans itself.
Posted by: Robert Crawford at October 04, 2005 07:55 PM (Gn9tM)
3
Um, but Paul's original photo is of Algiers...
Paul, I didn't mean to imply that your photo was wrong (did I word that poorly?) only that the busses were actually being used, by Wednesday at least, to evacuate people.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 04, 2005 07:59 PM (JQjhA)
4
BTW- That is the Algiers ferry landing. I have no idea why anyone would be there during a storm... and remember this is 2 days later and there was no flooding in that area. (well I'm sure a few houses took water but I mean mass flooding)
Clearly if the city figured out that they had busses, the Dome was a more pressing need than people who were in their own (relatively unscathed) neighborhood.
So the "best" case for the mayor is that he let the buses sit for 48 hours then did not use them where they were needed most, all the while whining the Feds did not come bail him out. hmmmm
Frankly Rusty, you damned him. Many people argued the busses might be broken or he could not get drivers. You took those 2 off the table.
Posted by: Paul at October 04, 2005 07:59 PM (yVS2b)
5
As I said in my post several times. Algiers is part of New Orleans. Those were Nagin's busses.
Posted by: Paul at October 04, 2005 08:00 PM (yVS2b)
6
You are quite correct.
I wonder, though, if Nagin is to blame or the incompetent corrupt New Orleans system of government?
And, after some reflection, I think maybe you're right. Nagin be damned!
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 04, 2005 08:05 PM (JQjhA)
7
I have been saying this since right after the flood. Thanks, Paul, for a job well done. The pajamahadeen have struck again.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 04, 2005 08:20 PM (rUyw4)
8
BTW- I'm allowed to think he is a bigger idiot than you... I live here.
P
Posted by: Paul at October 04, 2005 08:47 PM (yVS2b)
9
Spontaneous order
To All,
Welcome to the world of public service. I just retired after surviving 35 yrs in a So Cal law enforcement agency(300K daytime pop).
Trust me you put too much confidence in the ability of government to perform in these situations. Fortunately in CA the emergency ops folks have their act together much better than apparently was the case within the New Orleans Region. We do have our four seasons here of floods, fires, earthquakes, and riots. We are currently in the fire season. You may have noticed the fire folks here do come together and seem to be able to coordinate their resources.
It sounds like there was mass confusion with little prior preparation between the multitude of local and regional agencies that must interact when such a disaster strikes.
On Rusty's discovery on the busses my guess is some low level public servant threw the book away and decided to tell someone to use the "GD" busses to move people out of the area. Probably violating a multitude of chain of command regs.
No big surprise they were not used at the Superdome as the powers that be probably were unaware they had buses that were functional because the communication system went down earlier in the game. If I remember correctly the backup generators were powered by natural gas that failed because of other systems failing.
There is a term for this:
Spontaneous order
RLS Link
Also read my comments above and below this post
Posted by: Ron Wright at October 04, 2005 10:36 PM (3NBxL)
10
Some background: the NO school board discussed a
plan to use school buses in an evacuation in June 2005, and the business managers of the school district
says they weren't used because the drivers had been evacuated.
People should start trying to find those who were on these buses or those who drove them to see what happened when.
Posted by: Katrina Coverage at October 04, 2005 10:40 PM (Z2PkX)
11
Who cares who drove the buses. In an evac scenario there's no need to worry about standard school bus driver training because the buses won't be stopping and red-flashing so kids can cross the road to get on the bus.
In this situation anyone who can drive a stick is a bus driver, unions be damned.
Posted by: Captain Ned at October 05, 2005 01:24 AM (Acn6I)
12
Bullshit: (1) New Orleans is the worst run city in the worse run state.
(2) Blame the officials in neighboring Gretna and Jefferson Parish Officials for protecting their city from looters and thugs. More bullshit.
(3) Nagin is an idiot. His gross exaggerations left everyone running in circles not knowing what to believe. 20,000 dead. Bullshit.
(4) There was plenty of high ground or areas of water less than a foot. Plenty of buildings downtown that were 50 stories high. Where you ask? Easy. Across the street from the superdome. In fact the Coast Guard's 8th district headquarters are on the 17th floor of a building across from the Superdome. Why didn't city officials open the thousands of rooms in fancy hotels on Canal street? Anyone ask that question? Hell they had generators. It's the law. And the majority are powered by Diesel. I have a friend who rode the hurricane out at the Marriott. They had emergency power. Why? Not to house the homeless but to protect it from the looters everyone expected.
Anyone notice the pictures of the looters. Strange how easy they got around. Movement was easy for looters and hard for everyone else. Bullshit.
(5) Poor leadership in New Orleans is what caused many police to become looters themselves. Of course only of high dollar items. Excuses will be made for them.
(6) When New Orleans officials directed people to start walking in circles they were not even thinking about buses. The purpose was to make Nagin the idiot look good and the federal government look bad.
(7) The entire government in New Orleans parish was elected, appointed and promoted for one reason and one reason only. Because they are black. Not on ability, experience or intelligence. Merely because they are black. New Orleans you got the leadership that you wanted. Now the rest of us will pay the bill. As usual. You have the worst education department in the country. Your city is unsafe. Your police department racist. Your school board is a joke. The judges you have elected are corrupt and your mayor is an idiot. Something that we in the surrounding parishes have known for years.
I have one question that has risen. I cannot prove it but I have heard that school buses were available and ready to move and Fema would not use them because they were not air conditioned. If this is true, there is also a federal idiot involved. Probably afraid of getting sued. Many actions by the feds in my area of gulf coast Mississippi have been slowed by the feds. President Bush admitted that today and explained why federal equipment could not aid us on private land. Again, that can be blamed on greed and lawyers.
People in New Orleans, piss, moan, complain and wail with their hands out. What needs to be remembered here is that while people in Orleans Parish stood on roof tops people in Mississippi didn't have a roof to stand on. The flooding was a slow process caused by leaks in the levees. Mississippi was hit by a wall of water 30 ft high all at once. I guess the difference is the Mississippians didn't have time to loot and complain and murder.
One thing I would like to make clear. Seems like the rest of Louisiana acted different than the people of New Orleans. WHY?
I would also add that there not a redneck in Mississippi who can't drive a school bus so that dog don't hunt.
When a entire city relies on de govement instead of themselves they will be in trouble.
In one day the roads to my farm were cleared of hundreds of trees. By whom? My neighbors. We pulled together and watched out for each other. The generator I purchased 3 years ago went to another family with a 92 year old lady in ill health. Others chipped in fuel. Fuel that was purchased when we were told the storm was coming. Food was shared and freezers that didn't have power were emptied for all. My driveway was cleared of 8 large trees by someone with chain saws and strong backs. I still don't know who.
Difference in people I guess. Some are conditioned to support the Government and some conditioned to live on it.
Some say they had no way out when evacuation was ordered. There was a way. On plenty of school buses, city buses, trucks, cabs etc: None of these were offered by the city of New Orleans Officials who saved their asses and got out. Some police acted as they should. Others only thought of themselves. I know of not one case of a coastal Mississippi police officer running away. I fact we had so many people running around with T-shites saying police and pistols on their hips that it was a bit scary.
So much for my thoughts. I am still siting in St Louis, Mo. Nice place but not home.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 05, 2005 05:17 AM (ywZa8)
13
Just thinking of something. Why are the blacks in New Orleans relying on Bush. None of them voted for him. They voted for Nagin. They should rely on him. Ha. Vote for Nagin and scream for Bush when shit happens. There's some irony here.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 05, 2005 06:37 AM (ywZa8)
14
There is no doubt that someone should have commandeered anything with wheels to evacuate those that were trapped. But you should also remember, Gretna cops controlled the west bank of that bridge, and turned back those who tried to cross it, starting Monday the 29th.
The chief of police said "Evidently, someone on the ground (in New Orleans) was telling people there was transport here ... There wasn't."
Meanwhile, as the photos show, there
was transport, and it appears some of them were used. So this isn't all on Nagin. It's obvious there weren't many people in power, from mayors to police chiefs, willing or able to do the right thing.
Posted by: Reid at October 05, 2005 07:17 AM (CnKub)
15
IMO, the definitive pictures of the NO flooding are the Global Security series (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans-imagery.htm). They clearly show the areas that did and did not flood.
Posted by: Steve L. at October 05, 2005 07:26 AM (hpZf2)
16
I believe the pictures of the people at Algeries landing is of the St. Bernard parish evacuation. The people of St. Bernard were evacuated by ferry boat to the west bank. They were then removed by buses.
The St. Bernard evacuation is a story of local people taking care of themselves without help from the Feds or State govt.
Posted by: RJ at October 05, 2005 07:38 AM (n6q58)
17
Reid,
Other photos show the bridge where people were allegedly turned away. Only two cop cars on the bridge. Something is fishy about that story........
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 05, 2005 08:58 AM (JQjhA)
18
Lateat reports from NOAA now have Katrina hitting New Orleans as a strong Category ONE or weak Category TWO.The primary cause of the disater was that the levees broke. Could that have been prevented ? By whom ? Flood control has been Federal for 100 years. Pork. Pork.Porl.Gimmmie Gimmmie Gimmie. Bush approves and signs Bills but it is Congress who writes them. This is a direct result of the one party system. Checks and Balances ? Compromise? Accountability ? Under our Federal System ALL citizens of These United States have the right to "LIFE LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of Happiness" regardless of negligebt local government. Where was Fema in these pictures two days later ? Should the city of New Orleans had a better plan ? duh...... There is plenty of blame togo around. And of courseif all else fails we can always use the defense of last resort BLAME THE VICTIMS. The reporting was the worst tabloid journalism. Remember the shooting at helicopters ? NOT !!! Looting ? minor compared to what is happening now with the contracts.Were the "left" newspapers worse than the "right"papers? Hard to say for me.
Posted by: john Ryan at October 05, 2005 09:26 AM (ads7K)
19
That's because you're on the Left, John Ryan, and they could shit in a cup and you would take it for ice creme.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 05, 2005 10:09 AM (rUyw4)
20
That authority several seem to be searching for was sitting about 70 miles up the road in Baton Rouge. I start with the mayor but since he seems to be the overwhelmed Idiot that actually got HIT, I quickly go to the source that could have controlled the entire situation (and was not hit). Governor Blanco is more responsible in this fiasco than anyone else I can find.
She had authority to control state police, Nat Guard, access into NO or out, permission slips for aide groups (Red Cross/Salv Army) and also access to enough school buses to bring her people out of NO. There is someone that has a name that was playing political chicken with the Feds. No other reasonable explanation because of the short distance between BR and NO. You got a better?
Posted by: owl at October 05, 2005 10:42 AM (60rrd)
21
Good job with all the photos and analysis!
I think when a hole appeared in the top of the Superdome, that should have been their clue.
Posted by: RepJ at October 05, 2005 10:47 AM (6krEN)
22
I am tired of the asshole mayor and dipshit Gov. in La. blaming the Feds. First off they were the first line of government. They failed to act. They failed to ask for help. They failed as elected leaders.
Its clear that the entire government of the state of LA. is corrupt, dumb and plain stupid. A majority of the residents are living off the federal and state government checks each month and just sit waiting for a hand out. So how can the Mayor even to begin to think they could follow even a simple disaster plan.
And to make matters worse he spent the money for the plan on a roadway study.
If I was sitting in a city 12 ft. below sea level with any type of hurricane coming toward me, it would be good by city. But no lets ride it out and then cry for help.
Why is it we all watched the news converge on NO like stink on shit while you seldom saw any areas of Miss. Ala, Fl. Yeah NO go water, Miss. lost everything down to the concrete slabs but you did not see them robbing stores, stealing big screen TV's, and crying to the feds. If you even saw them, they were picking up the pieces, helping their neighbors and coping the best they could.
Sorry but the plan to rebuild NO sucks, I would bulldoze and burn the damaged areas, pop the levees and make the area shoreline again. It would be the cheapest for us taxpayers, create wildlife habitat and clean up a blight.
Just my thoughts and opinions!
Jim
Posted by: Jim at October 05, 2005 12:13 PM (w3g+6)
23
Just been browsing here - very interesting subject. Here is something I found a week ago that is also interesting concerning the drivers for the buses:
Although many of RTAÂ’s buses flooded in Katrina, the agency has enough to begin the limited run, Cook said.
And staffing isnÂ’t a problem, she said. Many bus drivers stayed at RTAÂ’s Canal Street office during the storm and evacuated on the Tuesday after the hurricane for shelter in Baton Rouge, Cook said.
“There’s no problem with getting personnel,” she said.
Its from the Times-Pic, link is at http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_09_30.html
Posted by: Jean at October 05, 2005 12:13 PM (oeKCc)
24
You said it all, prettymuch . . greyrooster . . .
My only comment might be a telling comparison . . In N'awleens, 50% of the police(and other first responders) resigned or didn't show up . . apparently it was the 50% who showed up that looted stores and stole Cadillacs (so they could patrol? Quoting one of Nagin's statements) and the Firemen "had no water" to put out the fires that arsonists started, as they stood in knee deep water . . . Beside their pumpers . . . watching private property burn . . .
While the Firemen in Galveston were fighting a fire in the downtown area IN THE MIDDLE OF HURRICANE RITA! And the Police and other first responders never left any other hurricane impacted areas in Alabama, Mississippi, West Louisana, nor Texas . . .
Or did I miss something? Perhaps one has to fail a basic IQ test to live in N'awleens . . .
Posted by: large at October 05, 2005 12:44 PM (Ny1Tj)
25
Good job and here is another task. Find the pics of buses in Baton Rouge-Aug 31. Then ask anyone that lives there how far it is to NO. If you don't listen to MSM or political talking heads, I think all this gets a lot simplier.
Posted by: owl at October 05, 2005 12:45 PM (60rrd)
26
the busses parked in the algiers point bus barn were used on wednesday not for evacuating the residents of algiers point (since most evacuated before the storm and the remaining ones stayed and protected their neighborhood) but for evacuating residents of st.bernard parish (chalmette more precisely), brought there from their completely flooded eastbank neighborhood. it is unclear still, but seems to me that they got there on the river, since they were at the ferry landing, and the only exit point from chalmette was their own ferry landing by paris road.
i would like to find out if the ferry was used, or what other way they got there, but seems like the consensus among algerines is that they were chelmesian evacuees.
more info on what happened in algiers, at polimom.com, directly from the folks who were there.
Posted by: the algerine at October 05, 2005 01:53 PM (B4hna)
27
You said it greyrooster. I think there were/are some people in NO that are doing what they can - we just aren't hearing about them. About a week after Katrina, I saw on either CNN or MSNBC, can't recall and can't find it now, about a lady in the 7th ward, I believe her name is Mama Dee, she is a community activist. She stayed during the hurricane and the flooding of her neighborhood. She was organizing everyone down to the kids. They had food they gathered together from each others fridges, water, ice and were rescuing people; they had found boats somehow. The military was trying to get her to leave but she wouldn't. They interviewed her again just prior to Rita and she was staying for that too. She was prepared for it. Also, the waters had receded and she and the residents were cleaning up the neighborhood, even around the houses of those that had evacuated. The military was again trying to get her to leave but was mainly just checking on her; she was giving them drinks and sandwiches ! If you search for her name, Mama Dee, you will find articles on it, mainly on activist sites that are a little strange but the articles on her are good.
Posted by: Jean at October 05, 2005 01:59 PM (oeKCc)
28
To the algerine.
all three local ferries were used to evacuate st. bernard. the people of st. bernard were evacuated house by house by recreational boaters to the east bank levee and then by ferry to the algiers landing.
Posted by: rj at October 05, 2005 03:41 PM (n6q58)
29
Fantasic work Rusty and the blogs in general on this one. the media portrayed total destrution and selected the images that
framed the whole hurricane story. You have just shattered that image.
Rusty is the man I'll work for him for nothing as long as I can becuase it's people like Dr Rusty Shackleford that bring the truth to the people.
Signed Howie: Unworthy Paduan beotch to the very good and totally not evil Dr. Rusty Shackleford.
Posted by: Howie at October 05, 2005 04:57 PM (D3+20)
30
I agree totally with Grey Rooster. This was the result of idiocy, panic and corruption at local level.
Lots of the other buses we have seen pictures of should have been moved to higher ground before the storm - or rather, should have been used to help people get the hell out. Just get the people above sea level - even in the higher parts of the city itself, worst case. Noone should have been left below sea level, especially in those nursing homes.
And I saw figures elsewhere that however many buses there were in NO, the state of LA has some 20,000 registered buses in total.
All this is being mostly ignored by the press who were responsible for atrocious "reporting".
Posted by: JohninLondon at October 05, 2005 05:48 PM (0RlGL)
31
Hey, this post made #1 on Blogniscient's Top Conservative Politics Blog Articles list today (
http://politics.blogniscient.com ). Congrats to all and keep up the great work!
Posted by: reston at October 05, 2005 06:15 PM (SxyVn)
32
Regarding the Gretna/turned away incident, I believe the police chief says they were letting people through for a few days, until the WalMart was looted and that was the final straw. I'll let someone else see how that fits into the timeline of the pictures.
Posted by: Katrina Coverage at October 05, 2005 07:43 PM (kol+Q)
33
Reid: Had the people entering Jefferson Parish had been evacutees in buses, etc: the brave take charge major of Jefferson Parish would have allowed them through and helped all he could. But that wasn't the case. Who were the very few that were turned back? The officials of Jefferson Parish took charge and behaved like real leaders. If the people of New Orleans had a brain that would look to Jefferson Parish for their next Mayor and Chief of Police. But that will not work and you and I know why.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 05, 2005 09:02 PM (ywZa8)
34
JEAN: We will find Mama Dee. She deserves something good.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 06, 2005 08:29 AM (M7kiy)
35
Greyrooster: I'd bet there are others quite like Mama Dee, just no one paid attention to them . . they are the Human Element that makes humanity good . . problem is . . there's too few of them!
How 'bout those mysterious chain saw weilders that cleared your street and driveway? heh, heh . . a hat to 'em all!
Posted by: large at October 06, 2005 03:23 PM (Ny1Tj)
36
Klanrooster, you are so racist, you give whitey a bad smell..
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at October 07, 2005 06:02 AM (A5eqb)
37
Keep flapping those purple lips. Rasmus.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 07, 2005 10:09 AM (M7kiy)
38
Downing Street Moron: How would you know what a white man smells like. No one in your family is one.
Get them thar greens & hog jowls, Boy
De white man caused de hurcane.
Simple minded jungle bunny.
Posted by: greyrooster at October 08, 2005 12:10 AM (M7kiy)
39
I feel sorry for the people who have to use negative name calling (i.e. simple minded jungle bunny?) to express their opinions. It allows people to see how intelligent they are, NOT.
I must admit that I am black but; I also believe that the situation days before Katrina and the first days after the storm, does fall on the sholders of the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana , with plenty of blaim for both of them. But let's be real, once you get pass day 2, 3, and 4 of Katrina and still No FEMA intervention has taken place for evacuations, or for the basics like water, food, for people or formula's for babies!!! It falls on the shoulders of the Government, and like it or not the Head Man in Charge is BUSH (the buck stops on his desk). The idiot that Bush had in charge of FEMA, Brownee, forgot to change hats; from being responsible for horses to being responsible for people. I don't blame Bush for Katrina, I don't blaim Bush for the flooding; but I certainly blaim him for what the people had to go thur after the storm. Babies, children and adults, who had to suffer the un-Godly conditions at the Super Dome and on the bridge for as many days as they did. You can say what you want, but; that was un-called for, no human being in this United States of America should have to live like that for days when it was not necessary. This United States can get food around the world quicker than they got water and food to these people. If the reporters could get in to take pictures, than FEMA could have gotten in to drop off water and food, and evacuate the sick. Please, try to understand that unlike the majority of people in the shore front property in Mississippi, the majority of people left behind in New Orleans did not have the means to evacuate, that does not make them stupid just poor and unfortunate. I wonder what Jesus would say our responsible to the poor is? Would Jesus say, Slander the victims,(call them stupid, idiots, or jungle bunnies) or bear false witness against them (claim that they have killed and raped hunreds or were shooting at helicopters) or would he say feed my people?
Posted by: j. colbert at October 11, 2005 02:17 PM (Z83bx)
40
J. colbert: That's your opinion and they are like assholes.
I will not comment on further on your post. As from experience has taught us that you are just another Cindy Sheehan pie in the sky know nothing.
Posted by: BigAl at October 23, 2005 07:39 PM (6krEN)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment