The MSM continues to monitor the body count in Iraq like some warped type of fantasy sports game.
Too bad these idiots lack any sense of historical perspective, much less decency.
Yes, you read that right. More American civilians died in WWII than have died in the GWOT, which has now gone on longer than WWII, and will continue for many years.
I could care less anymore if the MSM is anti-war or pro-war, but in struggles of freedom vs. tyranny, at least they could offer some balanced perspective.
Fat chance, that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The media is doing its level best to demoralize this nation by ruthlessly tallying up the number of dead. They know that the historical knowledge of the average citizen is woefully inadequate. They feed on it, in an attempt to convince them that this war is Vietnam The Sequel.
Therein lies their folly. By assuming that you and me are too stupid to make any connection to the past, they beat the drum of despair.
Germany, Italy, Japan, Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania had no WMD, either, yet this country sacrificed 292,000 of its best and its brightest to defeat the Axis.
If the media is going to use the same tactics in this war that they used to help turn public opinion against the Vietnam war, by magnifying the bad while ignoring the good, then I believe it's up to us bloggers to use history in order to provide some balance to this misinformation.
This post was not about numbers, it was not about "playing bingo" with the dead. I did this post to provide a historical perspective as to what this country was once willing to pay in order to secure its freedom and continued existence. Without that perspective, we run the risk of letting the propagandists of the other side form the picture in people's minds of what this war is about.
And it is more than apt to compare this conflict with WWII. Islamofascism and Nazism are nearly identical in their respective quests. It's even apt to compare this conflict with Vietnam, given that both are rife with spectacular Allied military victories that are twisted and spun to make them seem like defeat.
We owe our knowledge of the truth about Vietnam to diligent historians. Militarily, the United States crushed the enemy. North Vietnam suffered over 1 million casualties in that war. That truth wasn't consumed by the pubic at the time, they ended up demoralized, and were unwilling to see the victory through to the end.
We no longer have the luxury of time, my friends. History needs to be written now, in the face of this hostile media, a political party that no longer stops playing at the waters edge, and a public that consumes it's news in 30 second sound bites.
1
Vinnie has it right here...the MSM are just all way too stupid to know there US military history....like this one....during the 1944 Battle of the Bulge which started December 16th and lasted till after Christmas.....aprox a 3 week period....The American forces alone suffered 19,000 causulties.....19,000....in 3 weeks, thats right to all those leftist retard trolls who stop in here......and not even 2,000 yet in how long in Iraq????.....whats that???....2+YEARS!!???!!!......Do you leftists know how many Stalins forces suffered in the assualt on Berlin in 1945???....over HALF A MILLION...did anyone stop their battle with the German army???....NOPE....and no way in hell will America stop in freeing the Iraqi people from the Islamic TERRORISTS...You{leftists, the enemy loving MSM, and the Islamic idiots} can all go to youre well deserved destination....HELL AWAITS
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 12:31 AM (IgomX)
2
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/berga.php?articleid=7081
Posted by: Route Irish at October 25, 2005 02:32 AM (Eh9tH)
3
Because I am a prejudiced exJarhead I prefer Iwo Jima. We lost more than this in one day! I should also point out theat the NYT was up in arms about it in 1944. Read their articles in 1944 and 1945 and you will see thay have not changed much in 60 years. They are way ahead of AP in America hatred; they started bashing America in 1920. But they loved the Bolsheviks.
Suribachi rules.
an old exJarhead
Posted by: Rod Stanton at October 25, 2005 06:20 AM (R3FcZ)
4
Unfortunately comparing bodybag count from one war to the next, is falling directly into the game they want you to play.
Irrespective of the validity of your point, even if the count was twenty people it is a large price to pay.
Two thousand families lives will be changed forever, Husbands, Wives, Fathers, Mothers, Brothers and sisters will never be coming back, forget the numbers game large or small.
The question we have to ask is who is making their sacrifice less? the ones who continually count the numbers, and use those figures to warrant a complete pull-out leaving Iraqi's to be killed by the terrorists in their midst, not only undermining the mission the soldiers died for, but stealing the honor of those who died to complete it.
The point is, 2,000 or 2 dead soldiers we should make sure their sacrifice wasn't in vain.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 07:27 AM (CcXvt)
5
Dave's got it right. A sacrifice is a sacrifice, regardless of the relative size of other sacrifices that may have predated it. You're just obscuring the issue by bringing up WWII.
Posted by: Fargus at October 25, 2005 08:00 AM (ts0WI)
6
perhaps dave is right, but back during WWII there were rules to be followed that the press had to follow....there reports were looked over for any sensitive material and censored if needed....no dead American GI's were allowed to be shown in pictutes to the American public....sure dead enemy soldiers were fine but no GI's and thats fine and is how it should be....if the press tried all the crap they do now , their offices would have been raided by the FBI and all those enemy supporting reporters,photographers and editors would have faced charges of treason....they may have been allowed some lenency but not what they absuse these days and its ridiculuos what the press LIES and TWISTS about....ive never seen such horrible "reporting" if you can even call it that anymore...its more like some fantasy and science fiction reports....at least back during WWII the reporters and photographers went right into the action with the GI's and could face capture and death...these days the majority of them hide back at the hotels and get "reports" and the "facts" from the enemy terrorists and their supporters....look at what Walter Cronkite and Ernie Pyle did during WWII....they went right up to the front lines, not hide in some chauteu back in Paris during the entire war and make up reports or recieve propaganda from Hitler and use that as the truth......its very sad and sickening what the press does now....they shouldnt be allowed to hide behind the freedom of the press when what they report are either totally made up stories or ones that support the terrorists....traitors all....they should be shot when its so obvious they have lied that a blind man could tell that its a lie.....thats why i hardly even look at the papers anymore...i get my news here online where i can cross reference stories and the idiots at the MSM dont seem to know that we have that power now...dont they ever learn???
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 09:12 AM (IgomX)
7
All durring WWII the MSM did report on the critics of the Democratic Regime. The Repunlicans were quite vociferous on what they saw as being wromg including both waste, misguided strategies, and high body counts.The reason our country is the best is because of dissent, not in spite of it. Being against moonbat dissent is unAmerican.
Posted by: john Ryan at October 25, 2005 09:21 AM (ads7K)
8
I have to agree with Dave. As long as we make such comparisons they'll keep comparing this war as well to Vietnam, WWII and others. This war has it's own context which should never be confused with any other. It is unique. Counting the dead should only be applied to the enemy. And the MSM will never do that. It would look like we're winning.
I had plenty to say about
the anti-war link above too.
Posted by: Oyster at October 25, 2005 09:27 AM (fl6E1)
9
Okay, so let me get this straight. Dissent is pro-American, but being against it is un-American. I'm sorry, but that cannot be said in such general terms and be taken seriously.
Posted by: Oyster at October 25, 2005 09:31 AM (fl6E1)
10
How dare you use facts, numbers, and logic, you zionist pig!!! Don't you know that's racist? BTW, I love how these idiot liberals pop in, excrete a link to a propaganda site that even a Kommisar couldn't believe, and disappear. Hey libtards, why don't you state your position and frame a logical argument? Oh, sorry, I forgot, libtards are incapable of logic, or even coherent strings of cognitivity. That, and the fact that the use of logic has been deemed officially racist.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 25, 2005 10:05 AM (0yYS2)
11
We have no media. The only thing left is a bunch of silly prats playing a stupid game. They have sided with the enemy, therefore they are now the enemy.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 25, 2005 10:13 AM (rUyw4)
12
I don't have time to do an update right now, but some of you seemed to have missed the point of this post.
Posted by: Vinnie at October 25, 2005 10:29 AM (Kr6/f)
13
i get it Vinnie...i know all that the US and British armed forces have done for the Iraqi citizens.....built new schools, power stations, water supplies, food supplies....i know that and yet the MSM REFUSES to even mention it...its all BAD BADA BAD according to the scums in the liberal,leftists media and i for one am sick of it and dont get newspapers anymore...they arent getting my money so they can carry on with their disgustiong agenda of destroying America and either killing us all or enslaving us all...the MSM and the Islamicretards are all in bed with each other in one huge orgy of death and destruction
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 10:39 AM (IgomX)
14
Vinnie:
I don't believe I missed the point of the post, indeed it is all too clear, I even said that the premise is correct, however the amount of soldiers killed "bingo" you're playing right now, only enforces the lefts opinion, it doesn't crumble it. Indeed they're using grim figures to justify an opinion. I'd rather not play the game.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 11:12 AM (CcXvt)
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Go Dave!
Right on! Also note - we are not repeating the mistake of the past with the stupid obsession with enemy "body counts". The MSM hates this new approach.
Posted by: hondo at October 25, 2005 01:08 PM (ymtSt)
16
Let me think about that, dave.
...
Nope, wrong again.
Posted by: Vinnie at October 25, 2005 02:17 PM (Kr6/f)
17
Sorry John, you're dead wrong. Dissent isn't necessarily patriotic. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy isn't dissent, it's treason. Arguing about the best way to crush the enemy is dissent, but arguing against crushing the enemy is treason. See the logic? I, for example, don't agree with most of Bush's policies, but he's the man we elected to do the damned job, not Hanoi John or any other traitor, so you need to just get over it.
The fact is that liberals want America to lose. They love to see dead Americans on television because they think it legitimizes their opposition to Bush and all his policies, opposition which is founded in nothing more than hatred and a burning desire to avenge Clinton. Liberals should all be killed, because treason is the most unforgivable of crimes, and treason lives in the heart of every liberal.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 25, 2005 04:18 PM (0yYS2)
18
Just another day. A cheap excuse to make a story.
Posted by: Howie at October 25, 2005 09:24 PM (D3+20)
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Dave,
The point is that it's not the Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines complaining. It's an ignorant segment of the US population (distinct from the treasonous element who seek political gain by sabotaging the war effort). They require education. Vinnie is providing it.
By the logic of the anti-war crowd, we should not have declared war on Germany and Italy after Pearl Harbor, and every man who died in Europe "died for nothing".
Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at October 25, 2005 09:44 PM (RHG+K)
20
Bluto, perhaps you read a different article than me, because the one I read this morning only stood to compare a grisly bodybag count?
As I said, I do not disagree with the point Vinnie made, however rationalizing dead vs. dead is not exactly productive, indeed "only" eighteen American soldiers died in Mogadishu, were they somehow less of a sacrifice?
To focus on the Leftist celebration of the 2000 "Grim Milestone" and then turn round and say "Well in WII more than that died in one day" is that a better rational?
My point is, it's a better argument to make that we should stay the course in the relevation of two-thousand soldiers deaths, pulling out would not only make their deaths pointless, but abandon Iraqi's to the terrorists, to make their bloodsick caliphate.
However, if you like i the other opinion, then that's fine too, thats why we're expressing our own ideas.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 10:59 PM (CcXvt)
21
Dave, yet again you fail to see the point. Even after I spent considerable time elaborating on it in the updated portion.
It's not a grisly bodybag comparison, dave, it's an effort to provide some perspective to what the media is portraying to those whose interest in the subject is tenuous at best.
Dave, it's the media who are rationalizing dead vs. dead. They are the ones screaming "quagmire!!!" And they're doing their best to make this war seem irrational, just as with 'Nam.
Don't give me that Mogadishu shit, dave, really. "Are they less of a sacrifice?" Why don't you ask Clinton, obviously, by not bringing the might of the United States to bear on Somalia, he thought they were, but you bringing it up is utterly irrelevant to this post.
"My point is, it's a better argument to make that we should stay the course in the relevation of two-thousand soldiers deaths, pulling out would not only make their deaths pointless, but abandon Iraqi's to the terrorists, to make their bloodsick caliphate."
So tell me, dave, how do you make your point? From what basis does your argument evolve? Do you just say, "yeah, we have 2000 killed, but we need to stay the course." Why? Why do we need to stay the course, dave? What's in it for us, dave? Hm? We don't live in Iraq, what's the point of our kids dying there? Who gives a shit if Iraq lives under a bloodsick [sic] caliphate? What does a free Iraq give us in return? Why bother?
There is a cost to war, dave, and if we want this country to remain convinced that the cost is worth it, we would do well to remind ourselves of the costs that we have paid previously.
You dishonor the sacrifices of these men and women, dave, by failing to honor their place in history. For you, it's a grisly bodybag comparison. You cheapen their deaths with your hyper-emotionalism.
Go back to school, dave, and learn your history, then maybe you'll be able to honor the dead properly, not by knee jerk reaction, but by viewing their sacrifice with the honor and dignity that it deserves, and with respect to those sacrificed before them.
And if you still don't get it, I would suggest you apply for a job as an AP reporter.
Posted by: Vinnie at October 26, 2005 12:04 AM (Kr6/f)
22
Vinnie:
Did you work out the media is biased all on your own? congratulations -- perhaps we should nominate you for a Pulitzer, or at the very least a medal for spotting-the-bleeding-obvious.
The MSM continues to monitor the body count in Iraq like some warped type of fantasy sports game.
Yes, you read that right. More American civilians died in WWII than have died in the GWOT, which has now gone on longer than WWII, and will continue for many years.
Which one of your posts am I to not take as a comparison, because in your first one you post a list of KIA's and killed Citizens in one war, and talk about Iraq then summerize with
More American civilians died in WWII than have died in the GWOT
I guess we can't all be as gifted as you in reading the clarity of your own posts? The very fact the first two, of three posts seem to take your post to mean there was merit in comparing bodycounts:
Vinnie has it right here...the MSM are just all way too stupid to know there US military history....like this one....during the 1944 Battle of the Bulge which started December 16th and lasted till after Christmas.....aprox a 3 week period....The American forces alone suffered 19,000 causulties.....19,000....in 3 weeks, thats right to all those leftist retard trolls who stop in here......and not even 2,000 yet in how long in Iraq????
[..]
Because I am a prejudiced exJarhead I prefer Iwo Jima. We lost more than this in one day!
I guess they also missed your hallowed point too?
Posted by: dave at October 26, 2005 12:53 AM (CcXvt)
23
IM it sounds like you want to fight a civil war HERE again. Kill all Americans who are all left of some point on the political spectrum that you pick ? lol Well that sounds not very ummmm reasonable. Communism is nor really much of a threat now is it ? Quite frankly I worry a lot more now a days about thieves in Washington stealing my money rather than the Red Chinese or Cubans. I have been around long enough to have seen both the republicans and the democrats swap clothes.As far as moonbats of either the extreme left or the ectreme right I kinds think they are funny. But I am an optimist and I DO have a lot of faith in my country.
Posted by: john Ryan at October 26, 2005 01:14 AM (ads7K)
24
Hey ya'll. The Greyroosters back. Had a productive roadtrip. nough said. Patriots 2. Muslim huggers 0.
Problem was that last week when I returned to St. Louis, Mo. my chest felt funny. Like a pressure that didn't make sense. Went to Doctor for stress test. Flunked. Then to my doctor in Slidell, La. A short confersation with the St Louis Cardio. resulted in me in the operating room for a Quad by-pass. Sometimes life can be a bitch when you have a few bucks in the bank. Joking. Maybe! Medical science in America is tops. Damn I love this country. Up in 1 day, home in 5 days and mowing pastures on my Kybota in 6 days. Only in America.
Looking at Waveland, Bay St. Louis and Pass christian, and Bay St Louis Ms, just makes me sick. Ya'll have to understand that Pass Christian, Ms was one of my favorite places in the world. Gorgeous antibellun homes on the beach 100 years old. IT AIN'T THERE ANYMORE. Just concrete slabs with laundry, cars and boats in the few trees left. My home is gone. Along with all the things I have been saving for my children and grandchildren. How do you replace pictures of your parents and grandparents when they are no longer with this world.
Time to cowboy up. Told the wife I'm heading south come Friday to rebuild better than before. Never liked that house anyway. Damn thing faced the east and the morning sun was a pain. New one will face the south.
May all you patriots continue the fight. The rest may continue to kiss my ass. The greyrooster is fixing to get his second wind. The way I figure it took me 64 years to plug the arteries up. Give me another 20 years and I'll set things right. Stand tall, ya'll.
Posted by: Greyrooster at October 26, 2005 01:22 AM (ywZa8)
25
http://action.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/102405/
Posted by: Route Irish at October 26, 2005 02:30 AM (Eh9tH)
26
Since you didn't bother to answer any of my questions, dave, I won't bother to respond. I am getting a laugh, however, out of your obtstinate insistence on telling me what I think.
Posted by: Vinnie at October 26, 2005 07:10 AM (Kr6/f)
27
Vinnie:
Questions? I saw some sort of lame "You dishonor the Soldiers" rhetoric, the kind that some moonbat might come up with, followed by some sort of attack on my grasp of history, which as I had not posted any historical reference, or in fact mentioned history at all, you have no ability to judge -- nice try though.
It's not my fault you lack the ability to make a concise article that everyone else can understand, but don't let facts get in the way.
Posted by: dave at October 26, 2005 07:57 AM (CcXvt)
28
Who made you the spokesman for everyone else? After the update, you're the only one bitching about it.
I will grant you that making those assumptions was the wrong thing to do, but it was late, and I was tired and more than a little annoyed.
Now, dave, we're through with this. Try to remember, in the future, dude,
it's just a blog.
Have a nice day!
Posted by: Vinnie at October 26, 2005 09:51 AM (Kr6/f)
29
Vinnie,
Maybe we should give Dave a password and let him try this shit. Then we can shoot holes in em all day. Keep it up Vinnie, I got the post.
Dave if you blog post your URL once in a while.
Posted by: Howie at October 26, 2005 10:22 AM (xqi1g)
30
Greyrooster,
Welcome back, and I am glad to find you in the best of health. My wife's family is from New Hebron, Ms. and I have spent several weeks of almost every summer at her grandmother's old houseplace. We would always go down to Biloxi and stay there, but with the gambling interests and all the traffic, we decided to stay in Bay St. Louis two years ago. I am sorry to here almost everything is gone. What a shame! Do you know if the Jefferson Davis home survived the hurricane? We always liked to go there to.
Missed you while you were gone, have had a fuss or two, nothing that couldn't be handled, but am old enough to appreciate all the help I can get. Ha!
Continue in good health and the best of luck in all your endeavors.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 26, 2005 10:29 AM (rUyw4)
31
Hey rooster Hope it was not that trip to the resturaunt that did that. Glag you are better. The Jawa is enough to give anyone a clogged artery.
Posted by: Howie at October 26, 2005 11:07 AM (D3+20)
32
Quothe John Ryan:
"IM it sounds like you want to fight a civil war HERE again."
Sure, why not. Every house needs a good cleaning now and then, and ours is full of vermin.
"Kill all Americans who are all left of some point on the political spectrum that you pick?"
Nah, just the ones who support our enemies. You can be as looney as you like, but once you start supporting our enemies, it's time for a hanging.
"lol Well that sounds not very ummmm reasonable."
Very little is accomplished by reasonable people.
"Communism is nor really much of a threat now is it?"
You're very naive, aren't you? Ever hear of North Korea and Red China and their nuclear arsenals?
"Quite frankly I worry a lot more now a days about thieves in Washington stealing my money rather than the Red Chinese or Cubans."
So you're only capable of recognizing one threat at a time?
"I have been around long enough to have seen both the republicans and the democrats swap clothes."
And you think that everything one party says is a lie, and the other is gospel, right? You sound like a Roosevelt socialist to me.
"As far as moonbats of either the extreme left or the ectreme right I kinds think they are funny. But I am an optimist and I DO have a lot of faith in my country."
I don't, because of people like you who want to pretend everything's okay. We're living in what could be the last days of Western civilization as we've known it, and people like you want to play political games. In case you haven't noticed, there is a global war against civilization being carried on by muslims from every country and all walks of life. They want nothing less than to destroy everything that we have built and to exterminate us, and fools like you only care about indicting Karl Rove.
Do you realize that fewer people now than ever before have any faith in our government? Do you realize that the government's ability to fight terroism is being hamstrung by the ACLU and other groups, whose long-stated goals have been to turn America into a Communist country? You poor, stupid simpletons don't even realize the threat we face, so you continue to behave like spoiled brats, crying about free health care and crap like that, while our soldiers are dying every day in the fight against the enemy. That's why liberals should all be shot.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 26, 2005 11:12 AM (0yYS2)
33
Howie:
I do not own a weblog.
Although if I did I wouldn't think my articles were beyond reproach, and nor should you. I enjoy reading all of the guest posters here, however if I disagree I will call you on it.
Sorry for the inconvenience
Posted by: dave at October 26, 2005 12:11 PM (CcXvt)
34
Jesusland: My son in law tried to get to the coast between Biloxi and Gulfport but they had it blocked off to sightseers. Don't know how the Jeff Davis place fared. The Grand Casino is across the street from where is was. The President Casino is sitting on top of what's left of the Holiday Inn. Mother nature placed the Casinos where they should have been to begin with. All bridges at Bay St Louis are gone. Next week I plan to take my boat down the Pearl River to the gulf. Then I can run to Waveland, Pass Christian, Bay St Louis, Gulfport and Biloxi. I understand Waveland and Pass Christian aren't there anymore. I'll get a view from the water and take pictures.
My place is a mess. I got tired of my wife and daughters going thru the remains, so I hired a track hoe and dozer and had it all buried. Not a trace left of a 75 year old colonial. Had a crew cut up the downed trees and move them with dozers. What the storn didn't tear up the dozers did. Place looks like a war zone.
Oh well, Now's the time to do it right the first time.
Can't find a hotel or rent a house in 100 miles. Frankly I wish the storm chasers and Fema would go leave and let us work out our problems. At least we would have motels to stay in. Fema is giving away so much money no one will work. I bought a mobile home to live in until I can rebuild. They call it a manufactured house. I call it a trailer. Switching from Wild Turkey to beer. Trailer trash at last.
Scott said he would take emergency leave and come home. I said why? The farm looks like Iraq so might as well stay there.
I have a close friend in the construction business. He is paying unskilled laborers $250.00 per day working 7 days a week. Can't find any help. Fema is paying pickup owners $3.75 per mile to bring travel trailers down from Indiana. They say they need 120,000 at Baton Rouge staging area.
800 miles @$3.75 per mile is $3000.00 per day. One day up, one day back. $1500.00 per day for driving your pickup. Not bad.
One of my neighbors got a job as an inspector for Fema. After a trailer is set in place and hooked up he looks at it. Says he's making $3100.00 per week and they pay him $90.00 per day for using his old pickup.
I wish to say thanks to all you hard working people paying the bill for this.
Posted by: Greyrooster at October 27, 2005 01:11 PM (M7kiy)
35
I heard the Davis home survived with lots of damage and the contents were pretty much lost. Especially paintings and paper records. Lots of history lost bu thte old place was built you know then they built things right.
Posted by: Howie at October 27, 2005 01:17 PM (D3+20)
36
Damn I ready to quit now amnd go make some bucks.
Posted by: Howie at October 27, 2005 01:45 PM (D3+20)
37
greyrooster
glad to see your ok you have to take things easy and not get so excited lol
Posted by: Sparky at October 30, 2005 10:54 AM (F1nba)
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