Another day another hostage video from the ghouls at al Jazeera television. This time the video shows German civilians Thomas Nitzschke and Rene Braeunlich. The two engineers have been threatened with death if Germany does not break diplomatic relations with Iraq.

An earlier video had been broadcast on al Jazeera two days ago which was dated Jan. 24th, the day the Germans were abducted.

The group calls itself the Tawhid and Sunnah Brigade (unification and 'way of the Prophet'). While the AP is reporting that the group is 'unknown', the name is actually very well known. It is associated with a subgroup of Jaish Ansar al-Sunnah. Ansar al-Sunnah is thought to be made up of Kurds of the former Ansar al Islam terrorist organization. Dozens of people with ties to Ansar al-Islam have been arrested and tried in Germany in the past several several years (example).

If this Tawhid and Sunnah Brigade is the same group that is associated with Ansar al-Sunnah (sometimes criminal organizations simply adopt an Islamic sounding name) then the hostages are in grave danger. The Army of Ansar al Sunna has murdered dozens of civilian hostages in the past.

We pray that these hostages will be released unharmed.

AP:

The brief tape Tuesday showed Thomas Nitzschke and Rene Braeunlich seated on the floor in front of a group of armed men. Al-Jazeera said the previously unknown group, the Tawhid and Sunnah Brigade, demanded the German government close its embassy in Baghdad, withdraw all the German companies from Iraq and to stop cooperation with the Iraqi government.

On a related note: Is al Jazeera making money from these hostage videos by selling them to the Western press?

Posted by: Rusty at 04:36 PM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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I've always thought al Jazeera was the most despicable media organization on Earth. They are objectively pro-terror, pro-tyranny, and pro-fascism. What I did not know, however, was that the frequent hostage videos aired by al Jazeera are then sold to Western media outlets for rebroadcast. If this is true, then the Western mainstream media is partially culpable for the plight of Western hostages in Iraq.

While many hostages are taken for purely financial reasons, others, including Jill Carroll, were taken for their propaganda value. Their terrorist captors find value in the fact that the Western media will replay her hostage videos over and over. Just like they did Giulana Sgrena's. This reinforces the notion that the terrorists are winning. And if people in the West believe the terrorists are winning, they will have less of a will to fight. Why fight a losing battle?

If true, shame on the Western media for paying the terrorists' media arm, al Jazeera, for a news story.

Human Events:

Having gotten their scoop, Al-Jazeera will then sell rights to the video to other networks, including American news channels. This generates income for the money-losing network and provides a measure of cover: If everyone else is airing them, why single them out?

Networks like hostage videos because they are newsworthy and form the basis for follow-on stories. There are relatives pleading for the release of their loved ones, generals asserting that we don't negotiate with terrorists, and pundits moaning that things must really be going badly. And at many networks, the "if it bleeds it leads" rule has a corollary: If it hurts Bush, give it a push.

The problem with these hostage videos is two-fold. First, they provide aid and comfort to our enemies in time of war. While a 30-second tape by a random terror groups may lack the propaganda punch of a rambling Osama tape, it will be followed by another almost exactly like it, and then another, dampening resolve and eroding morale.

Second, the publicity these tapes provide teaches aspiring terrorists that the price of admission for an airing of their grievances is not joining the political process, but simply grabbing a foreign hostage. This endangers every foreigner in Iraq, not just those seen as occupiers. [emphasis mine]

Posted by: Rusty at 02:25 PM | Comments (14) | Add Comment
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UPDATE 2/09/06: Third Jill Carroll hostage video here.

Scroll through for updates or check the MAIN PAGE here or our pages dedicated exclusively to Jill Carroll for the latest news on Jill Carroll and other hostages in Iraq.
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Disturbing news that al Jazeera has released yet another Jill Carroll video. This time, the massogonistic terrorists force Ms. Carroll to cover her head. Sickening.

UPDATE: While we continue to search for the unedited video, you can see the al Jazeera broadcast here (see right side of screen). As further evidence of al Jazeera's objectively pro-terrorist stance, anti-Americanism, and lies, earlier reports by the station itself that no audio were shown are not true. Al Jazeera does let this bit of audio slip by in the background:

their own government [inaudible] Iraq...let these people go home to their families

Roy Hallums, a hostage liberated by U.S. troops, related that when his terrorist captors wanted him to cry on his video, they first beat him. They said they wanted his tears to look 'believable'.

We pray for Jill Carroll's immediate release and for divine retribution to visit her captors. Hopefully in the form of the unpleasent end of an M16.

Al Jazeera:

Jill Carroll, the kidnapped US journalist, has appeared in a new video on Aljazeera, weeping and appealing for the release of women Iraqi prisoners.

The video, aired by Aljazeera on Monday, shows Carroll wearing a veil and weeping.

The video had no sound, but Aljazeera said she appealed for the release of women Iraqi prisoners. [Ed note: this is a deliberate falsehood on al Jazeera's part. Al Jazeera edited out most of Jill Carroll's pleas, but not a bit asking for the release of female prisoners]

Carroll is visibly crying in the video and wears a veil as she speaks to the camera. The footage has a time signature with the date 28 January.

Aljazeera's newscaster said in the video Carroll appeals to the US military and the Iraqi Interior Ministry to release all women in their prisons and that this "would help in winning her release".

UPDATE: Come to think of it, this is VERY good news. Jill Carroll's captors had given the U.S. a 72 hour deadline to release female prisoners in Iraq. That deadline expired 8 days before this film was time stamped. While it is still possible that her life is being threatened, the fact that they've let at least two deadlines pass without (apparently) harming her is a sign that perhaps their threats are idle.

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(Yenagoa, Nigeria) Earlier today, Briton Nigel Watson-Clark, American Patrick Landry, Bulgarian Milko Nichev and Honduran Harry Ebanks were released by their kidnappers. They were flown to the Nigerian capital, Abuja.

The men were taken hostage earlier this month (See here, here, and here) when about 40 armed men attacked an oil industry service vessel named Liberty Service. A previously-unknown group called the Movement for the Emancipation of Niger Delta (MEND) claimed responsibility for the attack and the kidnappings.

A source said that 100 million Nigerian Naira ($771,000) was paid as ransom for the hostages release.

Companion post at Interested-Participant.

Posted by: Mike Pechar at 04:50 AM | Comments (1) | Add Comment
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A new video has emerged of four Western peace activists being held hostage in Iraq. The hostages are: Norman Kember, 74, of England; Canadians James Loney, 41, and Harmeet Singh Sooden, 32; and American Tom Fox, 54. Background information on the four peace activists held hostage in Iraq can be found here.

The video is a very bad sign. While al Jazeera chose not to air the audio from it, the video is said to demand the release of all Iraqi prisoners or the four Western hostages will be murdered. Up to this point, speculation has abounded that the 'Swords of Righteousness Brigade', the organization behind the hostage crisis, was a criminal organization interested in ransoming the hostages for money.

However, The Jawa Report was the first media outlet to reveal the 'The Swords of Righteousness Brigade' may be a front for the radical Islamist terror organization, The Islamic Army in Iraq. Analysts working for major MSM outlets later confirmed our initial reports.

The Islamic Army in Iraq has murdered foreign hostages in the past, including Italian Red Cross worker Enzo Baldoni, and has worked with Abu Musab al Zarqawi's al Qaeda in Iraq in the past.

More recent reports indicate that The Islamic Army in Iraq (IAI) has broken any ties it had with al Qaeda. There is even some indication that IAI and al Qaeda are openly fighting in some areas.

Thanks to George for sending this link LTV:

Al-Jazeera television broadcast the video Saturday showing the four hostages standing against a wall. The four have been held hostage since November 26, 2005 and is the only evidence of the four peace workers still being alive after the first deadline passed in early December.

The kidnappers, a group calling themselves the Swords of Righteousness, believe the men were spying for U.S.-led forces and threatened to kill them if Iraqis were not released from U.S. and Iraqi prisons.

The group issued a statement saying this was the "last chance" for authorities to release all Iraqi prisoners or "the hostages will be killed."

Posted by: Rusty at 01:57 PM | Comments (14) | Add Comment
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Al Jazeera has broadcast a video of two German engineers taken hostage in Iraq. As reported earlier on The Jawa Report, the names of the two German hostages are Thomas Wischke and Rebiti Drata (transliterated from Arab reports). Their correct names are Thomas Nitzschke and Rene Braeunlich. We will link to the video as soon as we find it. Please e-mail us via the Contact link above if you have any information on the video.

Al Jazeera:

Two German hostages held in Iraq have appealed to their government to help secure their release, in a video aired by Aljazeera.

The two German engineers, who disappeared in northern Iraq on Tuesday, were shown on their knees in front of four kidnappers on the video shown by the television station on Friday.

The tape was dated 24 January, the day they were abducted in the northern industrial city of Beiji, about 240km north of Baghdad.

The hostages, identified by relatives as Thomas Nitzschke and Rene Braeunlich, arrived in Iraq on 22 January.

The German Foreign Ministry said the two only planned to remain in Iraq "for a short time".

They were working for a German company which has a commercial relationship with an Iraqi government-owned detergent company.

In Berlin, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German Foreign Minister, said on Friday that contact had been established with the kidnappers.

"The first contact was made by the kidnappers," Steinmeier told RTL television.

He described the pictures as "shocking".

Earlier, Gernot Erler, the Deputy Foreign Minister, told ARD television that a ministry crisis unit "is working constantly to save the two engineers."

Posted by: Rusty at 08:12 AM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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I certainly had no idea British journalist Phil Sands was being held hostage in Iraq. I also didn't know he was freed by U.S. troops. Glad to hear he is safe and sound, sad to hear that no one noticed.

Phil Sands was taken by a group of Sunni terrorists, threatened with beheading, forced to make a video calling for the withdrawal of British troops--the whole hostage nine yards. Five days into his ordeal, American troops freed him. He was held for such a short period of time, his terrorist captors had not had time to upload the video to the internet or send it to al Jazeera. No one, not even the troops that freed him, knew he was missing.

Thanks to Tribeca for noticing this. BBC:

A British journalist who was kidnapped in Baghdad and held for five days has been rescued by US forces - despite never being posted as missing.

Phil Sands, a freelance reporter was taken hostage on Boxing Day and released on 31 December, it emerged.

Not even his family had reported Mr Sands, from Poole, Dorset, missing and his captors had not made any demands.

British authorities were completely unaware he was in the country until he was brought to the British embassy.

"We can confirm that Phil Sands was kidnapped on December 26 but we were not notified, nobody told us and the hostage-takers weren't in contact," said a spokesman from the Foreign Office.

"He was released during a routine US military operation on December 31 and he left the country after a medical check-up and having been in touch with his family."

Mr Sands, who freelances for The Scotsman newspaper, told the paper of his shock when men brandishing AK47 rifles forced him into a car.

Posted by: Rusty at 04:19 PM | Comments (11) | Add Comment
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Two German engineers have been taken hostage in Iraq. Their names are Thomas Wischke and Rebiti Drata.

Let me reiterate why hostage taking has become so common in Iraq: because it works. Worse, when you find out that a particular country is willing to pay ransom then the obvious lesson to be learned is take more hostages from that country. Among the two latest hostages to be released in Iraq, one was freed by Coalition troops and the other, Sussane Osthoff, was freed after Germany paid ransom.

Hat tip to reader George who sends this CNN link:

Gunmen wearing Iraqi army uniforms kidnapped two German engineers outside their workplace in the Iraqi industrial town of Baiji on Tuesday, police said, the latest in a surge of abductions of foreigners in Iraq.

At least six gunmen, in two unmarked cars, grabbed the two men just outside a detergent plant in an industrial complex around Iraq's biggest oil refinery, police Lieutenant Colonel Kadhem Abbas said.

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said: "We have indications that two Germans could have been kidnapped."

He told reporters in Berlin the ministry had set up a crisis team and was seeking further information from companies. A government official said the two men appeared to be from the eastern city of Leipzig and were working for an Iraqi firm.

The two were seized at around 8:30 a.m. (0530 GMT), said Abbas, who speaks for the Joint Coordination Center for Iraqi security forces and the U.S. military in the province....

An official at the factory, declining to give his name, said the two men were only on their third day of work there, setting up a new plant, and were grabbed as they arrived for work by car. Their driver was left unharmed by the kidnappers.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:29 AM | Comments (9) | Add Comment
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The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is making a big deal out of the fact that they have sent two representatives to Iraq to work for Jill Carroll's release. Instead of taking the opportunity to show Islam as a humane religion by forcefully rejecting all hostage taking as barbarism, they base their appeal on the fact that Jill Carroll was an antiwar journalist.

Perhaps American hostages Dean Sadek and Jeffrey Ake don't merit CAIR's attention since they were in Iraq working with the U.S. or Iraqi governments.

CAIR press release:

“We, the undersigned representatives of the American Muslim community, call for the immediate and unconditional release of Jill Carroll, a journalist with a well-documented record of objective reporting and respect for both the Iraqi people and Arab-Islamic culture.

One might say that the conditional attached by CAIR was simply a tactic aimed at winning over the hostage takers. It is possible that CAIR finds all hostage taking barbaric, but chooses only to emphasize Jill Carroll's reporting because that might help win her freedom. But if that is the case, why did CAIR not send any one to Iraq when Jeffrey Ake or Roy Hallums was taken hostage?

“We ask that her captors show mercy and compassion by releasing her so that she may return to her family. Certainly, no cause can be advanced by harming a person who only sought to let the world know about the human suffering caused by the conflict in Iraq.”

If CAIR is the best that American Muslims can do, they are truly hurting for leadership.

Posted by: Rusty at 04:22 PM | Comments (43) | Add Comment
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As the details of now released German hostage Susanne Osthoff emerge, the tale gets stranger and stranger. Remember, Ms. Osthoff was a convert to Islam and was in Iraq prior to the invasion. It was Susanne Osthoff who was one of those crying foul over all the looting of historical treasures from Iraqi museums, something that we now know was not nearly as severe as she and others made out. After a ransom was paid for her, news reports indicated that she may have been a German spy. At the time, I thought that might explain why she seemed to be so sympathetic to her hostage takers.

Now, it turns out that Susanne Osthoff may have been complicit in her own kidnapping and that she was helping terrorist forces in Iraq.

Via Charles Johnson at LGF this Reuters story:

Part of the ransom money alleged to have been paid by the German government to win the freedom of Iraq hostage Susanne Osthoff last month was found on Osthoff after her release, the German magazine Focus said on Saturday.

Without citing its sources, Focus said officials at the German embassy in Baghdad had found several thousand U.S. dollars in the 43-year-old German archaeologist's clothes when she took a shower at the embassy shortly after being freed.

The serial numbers on the bills matched those used by the government to pay off Osthoff's kidnappers, the magazine said.

Posted by: Rusty at 03:40 PM | Comments (25) | Add Comment
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The 72 hour deadline set by The Revenge Brigade may have already expired, depending on when they started the clock. We pray that Jill Carroll is immediately released unharmed.

Posted by: Rusty at 09:12 AM | Comments (32) | Add Comment
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The mother, family and friends of American hostage Jill Carroll are appealing to the terrorist scumbags of The Revenge Brigade for her release. If you are a believer in any sort of God who intervenes in the affairs of man, please offer your prayers on Jill's behalf.

What is so interesting about Jill Carroll's mother's appeal is that it reveals the underlying assumption that even those on the Left have about the terrorists ('freedom fighter' or 'Iraqi Minutemen' to the Left) that we fight. What is that assumption? That the terrorists are murdering, uncivilized, pieces of human garbage.

Wait, you say, I'm on the Left and I don't believe the insurgents are really bad people. They just want the U.S. out of their country and they are driven (read: forced) to take extreme measures to accomplish their goals. You would do the same.

Of course, those making this claim do not really believe it. Let us examine Mary Beth Carroll's words. I am not accusing her of being on the Left, but the same rhetoric comes from organizations such as The Christian Peacemakers team, Giuliana Sgrena's Il Manifesto, and murdered hostage Margaret Hassan's CAIR International--all on the Left. AP:

The mother of abducted American reporter Jill Carroll appealed Thursday for her daughter's release, a day before the deadline captors set for killing her if U.S. authorities don't release all Iraqi women in military custody.

"They've picked the wrong person. If they're looking for someone who is an enemy of Iraq, Jill is just the opposite," Mary Beth Carroll told CNN's "American Morning."

She said video images aired by Al-Jazeera television on Tuesday gave her hope that her daughter is alive but also have "shaken us about her fate."

"I, her father and her sister are appealing directly to her captors to release this young woman who has worked so hard to show the sufferings of Iraqis to the world," she said, reading from a written statement....

"We hope that her captors will show Jill the same respect in return," she said. "Taking vengeance on my innocent daughter, who loves Iraq and its people, will not create justice." [emphasis mine]

But here words remind me of similar statements by Islamic clerics, Leftist organizations, and Borders sans frontiers all of whom make the same arguement, yet have no personal stake in the outcome of the hostage crisis. Taking Mrs. Carroll's words as an example of Leftist rhetoric, do you see how the underlying assumption is revealed? The insurgents would not kill Jill Carroll if they understood that she is a journalist on their side. The opposite, then, must be true: if Jill Carroll was a pro-war journalist then the natural course of events would be for the insurgents to kill her.

What kind of people intentionally murder unarmed civilians who are under their control? Even those on the extreme Left must admit that murdering a civilian is a barbarous and uncivillized act, and that those engaged in such psychopathic behavior are subhuman scumbags.

But, there is a state of denial by the extreme Left. They believe that the political orientation of the hostage should have some bearing on whether or not killing them is vile murder, or just the tragic consequences of war. They may not realize that they believe this, but they do, as revealed by their own words.

And the ability to differentiate how worthy hostage victims are of death puts those on the extreme Left who engage in such judgement in a similar category as the murdering terrorists who they are so eager to condemn only when the hostage shares their political persuasion: they too are evil vile scum.

Remember the recently reiterated words of the nation's most popular blogger, Leftist Markos Zuniga of The Daily Kos, when he found out American civilian contractors had been murdered in Fallujah: Screw them.

To those who take and murder hostages in Iraq, I have a different message: do not kill Jill Carroll, because she is a human being who poses no imminent threat to your safety and killing her would make you a murderer. Her political stance is unimportant. Murdering any hostage is wrong.

Murdering anyone, regardless of the victim's politics, is an act of evil which cuts your soul off from humanity. If you do kill her, I hope you are hunted down like the pigs you are, and slaughtered. For you have reealed your own inhumanity and no longer can claim the rights and priveleges of man.

And to those who would appeal to the hostage takers by arguing that Jill Carroll ought not be killed because she is really on their side, please think about what you are saying. Your words reveal what you really think of the insurgents in Iraq. And if you are still comfortable supporting them after this assumption has been clarified, then there is nothing left to say. Your nature has been unmasked for all the world to see.

UPDATE: See the subtitled al Jazeere video of Jill Carroll from MEMRI here (thanks to Tribeca). Notice the reason why al Jazeera supports the release of Jill Carroll? Because she is a journalist and they are obliged to support journalists going unharmed.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:35 AM | Comments (135) | Add Comment
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1 >>"If they're looking for someone who is an enemy of Iraq, Jill is just the opposite..." No lady. They're not looking for enemies of Iraq, they looking for enemis of the Caliphate, and any infidel will do-- especially the morally decadent godless Liberal variety. Was she wearing a burka? No? Well there you go. She will do just fine for their purposes.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 09:09 AM (8e/V4)

2 Funny how when the terrorists cite the reasons they attack "the great satan" it's often for behaviour the Left is part and parcel to. The left carries the banner for Homosexuals Liberal Arts so and on so forth but somehow they think the terorists are on their side and if they only understood how nice and fair they are it will all work out. Nice and fair have nothing to do with it dumbasses. Of course the Islamists will call for the release for their own reasons and some will fall for that as genuine respect for the Left on the part of the Islamists. But they forget misleading the kufr left for your own purposes is quite OK. Should Jill be released and I hope she is many will forget that she was kidnapped and threatened with death to start wiht and say oh how nice. Played like a fool they will be.

Posted by: Howie at January 19, 2006 09:15 AM (D3+20)

3 You're right Howie, and I can't figure it out either how the libtards are expressly and unconditionally supporting the very people who would slaughter them like sheep. We all know libs are self-loathing, but I think it's suicidal in nature. Libs are childish in their inability to see reality, and live in some sort of dream world where mean people make them go to work and pay their own way, and it can only be made better by destroying everything. They're idiots and should all be rounded up and done away with.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 19, 2006 09:42 AM (0yYS2)

4 Be nice. The woman may lose her daughter to these monsters. Don't attack her.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 09:50 AM (5E0ex)

5 IM, Liberalism is essentially suicidal in nature. Liberalism is like a biological WMD. It's just as likely to kill the user as it is to kill the target. A perfect example of this is abortion. Have you ever heard of the "Roe Effect"? They are essentially killing off millions of potential future Liberal voters. Ironic no, that their number one policy (abortion) ensures their own political demise. But Liberalism doesn't only kill Liberals by the millions, it's suicidally bringing down our country, and Western civilization too.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 09:50 AM (8e/V4)

6 Be nice. The woman may lose her daughter to these monsters. Don't attack her.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 09:50 AM (5E0ex)

7 George, we heard you the first time.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:00 AM (rUyw4)

8 " George, we heard you the first time. Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:00 AM " Then wake up to yourselves. You assholes usually elevate victims of crimes like this to saintly heights. Except now it looks like some transient political agenda (bush-loving) is in jeopardy so you heave the sacred victims over the side. Hypocrites.

Posted by: JRI at January 19, 2006 10:08 AM (EeQUM)

9 JRI, two things. First, which victims have we raised to "saintly" heights? Name him/her. Second, I fail to see how this puts the bush-loving agenda in any kind of jeopardy. Care to explain? or are you the hit and run variety of troll.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 10:20 AM (8e/V4)

10 Sorry, I accidentally posted twice. Hasn't that happened to you???

Posted by: George ramos at January 19, 2006 10:28 AM (5E0ex)

11 Rusty is not "attacking" her. He is calling into question the underlying message in pleas that are put forward for the release of many who were unfortunate enough to be their victims. And he's right. The message rarely varies; Don't kill him/her for they are on your side. As if holding a different belief makes them worthy of being killed. Do not ignore the several statements he made in the defense of those who do not deserve their brand of punishment, death, not due to any political philosophy, but by simple virtue of the fact that they are human beings who do not pose any iminent danger to the life of another. Period.

Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 10:35 AM (osKlJ)

12 Ok, but what about the fact that the Bush Administration is appeasing the terrorists, and has now met the demands of the terrorists by releasing 6 of the 8 Iraqi women held by coalition forces, as per the demands of the terrorists?!?

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 10:47 AM (L8cTI)

13 The Iraqi Interior Ministry made the final decision, not the Bush Administration.

Posted by: Vinnie at January 19, 2006 10:49 AM (Kr6/f)

14 Along with a representative from the US, who takes his walking orders from the Administration. The Administration could easily have said no, or put their foot down. Believe me, the Iraqi government is in our pocket and answers to us. The US stated there wasn't enough evidence to hold these women any longer. But the cases are reviewed on a bi-weekly basis, and was reviewed just prior to the terrorists demands. There was sufficient evidence to hold them just last wseek, but immediately after the demands are made, there suddenly isn't enough evidence to continue detaining them?

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 10:52 AM (L8cTI)

15 You are right Janie, except that I do not know if the Administration was involved (Coalition representatives claim they were not). See this post: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/152324.php Others, I did not say ANYTHING bad about Mrs. Carroll. In fact, I EXPLICITLY said that if I were in her shoes I would be doing EXACTLY the same thing (and more).

Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 10:57 AM (JQjhA)

16 See, that's what happens. Someone reads part of a "news" item, doesn't read or comprehend all of it or check other sources, makes an assumption and then can't wait to beat you over the head with it.

Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 10:57 AM (osKlJ)

17 The point being missed here is that the Iraqi government is becoming more and more autonomous, Janie. By all appearances it seems the US conceded to the will of the Iraqis. The decision was not made solely by the US. At some point they have to make they're own decisions. They have a constitution and an elected government now. Are we to keep putting our foot down and not let them rule the way they see fit? To use the phrase "the Bush Administration is appeasing the terrorists" is disingenuous. Especially since there has never been an indication that this is true.

Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 11:04 AM (osKlJ)

18 Rusty, "the US military stressed that decisions over such matters were a detailed process that were unrelated to any other operational activity." - From the BBC Let's say for a moment that the Administration was not involved (which I highly doubt). From the above quote, the US military WAS involved in the decision-making, and as the Commander-iN-Chief of the military, does he not have a RESPNSIBILITY to the American people to be involved in this sort of decision, which could affect the lives of future American citizens? This is sending a mixed message to the terrorists, and could lead to an increase in kidnappings, since we are appearing to meet their demands (whether the President was involved or not does not matter to these terrorists). And what happens to those that are kidnapped in the future due to this incompetence? This is a decision, that whether you like the President or not, you know he should be involved in. It affects the future of our men and women in harm's way. So, the choices are either, the President is involved in sanctioning the negotiations, or there is incompetence of the Commander-in-Chief of our Military to allow a decision to be made that puts us in further danger.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:04 AM (L8cTI)

19 Oyster, "By all appearances it seems the US conceded to the will of the Iraqis. The decision was not made solely by the US. At some point they have to make they're own decisions." So, the US is going to give the Iraqi government the power to put future citizens of America in harm's way, because we need to let them become autonomous, while we still have troops there? If we are going to maintain such a large troop presence, the US needs to make sure that the decisions which are being made are not going to put them into any further danger, or we need to get out.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:09 AM (L8cTI)

20 God, I can't spell today! lol, sorry for all of the typos.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:10 AM (L8cTI)

21 Janie illustrates another common Liberal phenomenon which we have noticed and discussed at length on this board. The phenomenon by which two moonbat wings play both moonbat sides against the bushian center. If Bush doesn't play ball and poor journalist gets headchopped, one moonbat wing gets to say how Bush is a heartless despot. If Bush does play ball by ceding to the kidnapper's demands and thereby saving poor journalist's life, the other moonbat wings gets to prove how he's a terrorist appeaser. They can't lose, and the outcome is always assured.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 11:13 AM (8e/V4)

22 I understand your point of view. But it appears you and I are both wrong. These women have not been released and statements today from the White House say that their release is not imminent. They are simply under review. So let's argue about it when that time comes. In the meantime - I offer a truce.

Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 11:16 AM (osKlJ)

23 Jesusland Carlos, Well, since you don't know me, or exactly how I feel about the situation, why don't you stop lumping me into a group and calling me a hypocrite. I personally do not support negotiating with terrorists. And even though I offer a valid argument, you simply dismiss me without even considering the fact that my arugement is valid and factual? Oyster, I agree, truce accepted! )

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:19 AM (L8cTI)

24 This is toxic. I'd be interested in a discussion about liberal beliefs about terrorism and think you make some good points, but to use a distraught mother to illustrates yoru ideas and make points is beyond the pale.

Posted by: pete at January 19, 2006 11:21 AM (6ScZY)

25 Janie, I didn't call you hypocrite, because I don't think that phenomenon generally happens on a conscious level. In a month you'll be arguing the opposite position whereby bush is a heartless neocon for letting the hostages get headchopped, and you won't even remember this conversation. Much of Liberalism is a reaction to what conservatives are doing, so you'll flip and flop accordingly, but you don't even know you're doing it. Liberalism has no core, it's purely reactionary.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 11:32 AM (8e/V4)

26 Jesusland, How dare you label me in such a way? While I may be a liberal, I do have my own personal values. One of them is not negotiating with terrorists. I agree that I do not believe in a lot of what the President has done, but that was one issue I agreed with him upon. And no, in a month I won't be arguing the other side of this issue. I didn't argue against how the Nick Berg case was handled, or any of the other hostage situations, so stop making judgments about me, based on what you THINK about libearals. You obviously don't know very much. Your problem is that you have no tolerance, and listen to what other people tell you. How many liberals do you actually know in the real world? How many liberals do you have meaningful conversations with about politics? I would venture to guess that number is nil. As for your comments about liberalism being reactionary: tell me, did the liberal movement of the 90's under Clinton fit the definition of reactionary? I think not. It may APPEAR that way today, because Democrats have no real power in the House or Senate. They have to be reactionary at the moment, because all of the branches of government are controlled by one party. When they cannot even submit a bill to get onto the agenda, they must REACT to what IS put on the agenda – only way to get across where they stand on that particular issue. Not even the vote to withdrawal troops back in November was a Democrat-sponsored bill, it was that of Duncun Hunter (R – CA). And if THAT whole charade doesn’t fit the bill of “reactionary”, I don’t know what does.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 12:10 PM (L8cTI)

27 I'll try to put it into terms Market idolators will understand: a trader must understand her client/opponent's goals in his own terms, not hers. Telling the captors that killing this woman doesn't even make sense in their terms is very astute, since appeals that begin with "You're irrational monsters," don't work. But many (not all) on the Right would rather avoid femmy/"traitorous" abilities like empathy and a-macho rationalism even if they'll work. I'd rather know how my opponents think and use it to my advantage, even if I have to figuratively wash my hands afterward---guess why I'm reading this site?

Posted by: Wesley Mooch-Crusher at January 19, 2006 12:11 PM (3cqm8)

28 I have never posted to a message board before. I always just sat back and watched liberals and conservatives bash each other and laugh. There's not anything here too incendiary, just more hate. Like this, which is why I come to read these things, just priceless humor: "Liberalism is essentially suicidal in nature. Liberalism is like a biological WMD. It's just as likely to kill the user....", or even better: "They're ('libtards') idiots and should all be rounded up and done away with" - blah blah blah same old tired name calling mindlessness. Does anybody with a healthy political interest NOT template their thoughts to whatever party they ascribe to? Isn't it possible that both liberal and conservative viewpoints can both have validity. Or do you just read your talking points memo before you speak? I guess I'm looking in the wrong place for thoughtfull debate. Don't get me wrong, liberals have become as equally worthless as consertives. It's hard to see when your eyes are filled with so much hatred of Bush. As a matter of fact, I would find it pointless to even post on the leftist blogs I have read, as everybody cheerleads each other. But both sides are idealogically rigid, with no room for compromise. Both parties in Washington could give a shit about any of us. I guess the idea of a third party will never emerge, because there's too many sheep (trolls, as I have seen them called on both political teams' blogs) that don't, who can't, think for themselves. Too many stupid & divisive issues like this article exist solely for the purpose of delivering a blow to your political enemy. It seems the author of this cares more about hating Leftist Rhetoric, than if the hostage is actually released. And again, liberals are the same stupid way, so don't accuse me of a bleeding heart, I hate you both.

Posted by: logicland at January 19, 2006 12:17 PM (fpt7S)

29 Market Idolators? Now that is a new one! Its suppose to imply some kind of insight and wisdom ... instead, I fell out of my chair laughing! I love this!

Posted by: hondo at January 19, 2006 12:22 PM (3aakz)

30 >>>"terms Market idolators will understand: lmao! clever. Kudos for that rare bit of humour and originality. Unfortunately, when the Left tries to "understand" our enemies it's usually for the purposes of blaming America-- NOT for the purposes of defeating that enemy. Janie, I've been a Liberal all my life. You might call me an apostate of sorts. Which means I know you Libs better than you know youselves because I've had both the inside and outside view.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:24 PM (8e/V4)

31 I love it! Since Republicans have controlled all three branches of government we have seen very creative ways to blame liberals for just about everything under the sun. keep up the creative work! Im working on a piece about how the Evol Liberal Elite Hollywood B-Movie Actors Association of America (ELEHBMAA) is working with North Korea to create hyper-strains of Bird Flu to make George look bad. Will be posting on my blog soon!

Posted by: liberul elite hippy commie at January 19, 2006 12:28 PM (YClF7)

32 hippy commie, not to mention the Film Actor's Guild (F.A.G.)

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:31 PM (8e/V4)

33 logicland, cmon, admit it. Lefties are WAY more wacky.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:35 PM (8e/V4)

34 Jesusland, Ah, so you're the anti-David Brock. I know how the Neo-Cons work as well. You know, I have NO problem with true Conservatives. I would probably vote for John McCain, or someone of the ilk of the 1950's Republicans.. the ones that actually stuck to their values, and didn't follow blindly, going against what the party stands for (you know, smaller government, low defecit, wars only out of necessity, etc.). It's the Neo-cons that I take issue with, as they have hijacked what was once a normal party. I figured you were a formal liberal, since that's where the Neo-con movement started from. Try reading "Blinded By the Right", might give you even more insight. But again, keep throwing around labels, when you have NO clue who I am or what I believe.. just proves that the neo-cons are the party of ignornace, since by beliefs are staring you right in the face.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 12:36 PM (L8cTI)

35 JC Admit it! You were a liberal in your youth for the same reason I was - Jenny Bronstein. Well, did you get any?

Posted by: hondo at January 19, 2006 12:43 PM (3aakz)

36 >>>You know, I have NO problem with true Conservatives. Another attempt to play both sides against the bushian center. When you're not attacking bush, the 50s Republicans were greedy penny-pinchers who hate the poor, as well as warmongering Cold Warriors-- BECAUSE they "stuck to their values", values you've spent the last 50+ years decrying. But when you are attacking bush, you claim to love those values, and the 50s Republicans magically transform themselves in the "good time of Republicans", not today's neocons. Whatever. You just proved my exact point.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:46 PM (8e/V4)

37 hondo, that's the ONE thing I miss about my Lib days. Lib chics were so easy! lmao!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:49 PM (8e/V4)

38 Well the U.S has said that detainees won't be released anytime soon. It's the Iraqi government that is bending over to the terrorists. Jill may very well die tomorrow unless the terrorists do like they did with the peacemaker team and just disappear without ever mentioning her fate.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 12:53 PM (5E0ex)

39 Jesusland, Shows how much you know about the current political arena. Bush has run up the biggest deficit in our nation's history. He has also expanded the role of government, not reduced it. He also began a war on questionable pretenses. I'm not trying to play the center of ANYTHING. This is what I believe. If you can't handle that someone within the Democratic Party differs from those that run the party, shows that you will follow WHATEVER the Republican Party does, no matter what YOUR personal values are. And honey, I haven't spent the last 50+ years decrying anything... I'm 24 for Christ's sake. And the Conservatives from yore were NOT what Bush is in anyway, shape or form. If you read history, you'd know that. Besides, I said that I have NO problems with true conservatives, and that I'd probably vote for McCain. I didn't say I agree with every single thing they did, or EVERYTHING they believed. I look for what's right about EACH party before making a final decision. But again, you blindly follow, so you wouldn't understand what that's like.

Posted by: janie at January 19, 2006 01:17 PM (L8cTI)

40 Janie, I know about Bush's deficits, and we conservatives have been quite vocal about our concern. But the complaints just sound hilarious coming from you Libs considering you've always loved deficits, and I have no doubt whatsoever that had Kerry won the deficits would be even higher-- and you'd be loving him for it. Something about "the poor", and the "starving children." And that's great that you love McCain. I love Joe Lieberman. So what does that prove. Having said that, I would agree that today's conservatives are not "50's conservatives." They're more like JFK Liberals, if anything. Which is what I am. Today's Liberals, however, are not like their 50s counterparts either. You're just good ol fashion Leftists now. JFK would be APALLED.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 01:29 PM (8e/V4)

41 Actually A -> B does not imply that ~A -> ~B it only implies that ~B -> ~A

Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 01:35 PM (pBKzg)

42 It's a dirty shame that you are picking apart the words of a worried and dismayed family and using them to make a point about how you imagine individuals may think about the many different people from different groups who are causing violence in Iraq. It isn't philosophically sound. It's barely thought-provoking. It's sophomoric and naive. It's unethical. It's downright unfeeling.

Posted by: Jude at January 19, 2006 01:45 PM (bp7yd)

43 Libs love deficits??? LMAO! Tell that to Clinton who had one of the largest surpluses in history, and was promptly squandered by Bush!!!! Wow, you're priceless! Do you even believe what you're saying??? My first intoduction to a Democratic President was Clinton. His fiscal policy is what I want this current President to do, or the next Democrat President.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 01:57 PM (L8cTI)

44 >>>My first intoduction to a Democratic President was Clinton. Then you're too young to know the difference. Dems have been running deficits since FDR. But it was for "the poor" and the "starving children" so it's all good.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:02 PM (8e/V4)

45 moreover, Bush spends like a Liberal, so what are you complaining about. I can complain because conservatives have always objected to this kind of spending, but it's a joke from you Libs. Overspending is how you've bought your votes all these years.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:08 PM (8e/V4)

46 why am I asking you? I've already stated the reason: playing both sides against the middle.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:10 PM (8e/V4)

47 What's the deal here? This is someone's daughter, remember? That's just mad-dog disgusting that you'd go after her mom for appealing to terrorists at that time, liberal or otherwise. Let her make her appeal for her duaghter's life, for God's sake. She isn't some hard-assed army colonel. Enough of this posturing. It makes you look like a major a-hole and does nothing for the cause. The terrorists would gladly have taken a southern baptist missionary hostage over one more liberal journalist anyway. They think we're all equally immoral, moreso perhaps if you're a good Christian. Can't blame the liberals for dividing the USA anymore...

Posted by: greedo at January 19, 2006 02:16 PM (fDsCh)

48 1. Yes, I'm too young to remember the other's spending habits. But I am a history major, so what's your point? Just because I wasn't alive doesn't mean I don't know what happened before me. That's completely ignorant. 2. Bush spends like a liberal? Yeah, on tax cuts for the wealthy that are being financed by the Chinese. If there had to be that much money spent, yes, I would prefer it to be spent on a proper Medicare fund, unlike the one he put into place that's currently bankrupting the states.

Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 02:17 PM (L8cTI)

49 You make some interesting points about an extreme side of liberalism - believing that reason will work with someone, even if they may be a danger to us and will never change. I would like to point out an extreme side of conservatism - believing that everyone who agrees with your worldview is good, and that everyone disagrees with your worldview is at best damaged and at worst evil. It is this worldview which I believe Bush and his administration have taken advantage of, and which has allowed him to continue to have some support, even in the face of persistent failure, deceit, and corruption. I think you know, in your heart of hearts, that if Clinton had gotten the exact same results as Bush from his efforts, you would find Clinton's actions absolutely unacceptable. And you would be right to. Let's all clear our eyes. I'll try to keep the beam out of mine, as a liberal; I ask you all to do the same as conservatives. Stop making excuses for Bush. He's a grown-up man.

Posted by: jim at January 19, 2006 02:27 PM (l+abj)

50 This tread was about jill, right? When I get confused I just watch.

Posted by: hondo at January 19, 2006 02:34 PM (3aakz)

51 Tax cuts for the wealthy? You mean the "wealthy"-- cause I got a tax cut and I ain't wealthy. The tax cuts took some 2 million low-income taxpayers off the tax roles entirely, so itÂ’s hard to argue that working families didnÂ’t get a financial benefit. But you Lefties continue to work as best aw you can around these facts. If you look at the CBO report yourself, you will indeed see that the total tax share by the richest 1 percent did declined modestly from 2001 to 2004. But that wasnÂ’t because of the tax cut. It was because of the recession. When the economy contracts and incomes fall as they did in 2001 and 2002, tax payments by the wealthy fall the fastest. This is because of the progressive rate structure of the income tax. In other words, if everyoneÂ’s income falls by 10 percent, the overall percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy falls fastest, because they pay a higher marginal tax rate. But why am I telling you this. I'm working with facts, while you're operating from platitudes.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:37 PM (8e/V4)

52 I love all of the liberals here who think I am attacking them. You will notice I used the term "extreme Left" to describe those I am talking about and never "liberal". The two are in no ways interchangeable. If you are a liberal and have taken offense I would suggest that you reread the post--in which case you should take no offense--or are misinformed as to your own values and are not a "liberal". If you are an "extreme Leftist", as I wrote, then go to hell. And to all the new readers who do not know the history of this website, please understand that this website is the foremost advocate for hostages on the web. We have HUNDREDS of posts about hostages being captured by terrorists in Iraq. So, we speak with some bit of authority on the subject rather than those who suddenly become concerned about hostages only when the MSM tells them to be. I trust you are concerned with Jill Carroll, as much as we are, but it would have been nice to hear from you as these people were murdering 12 Nepalese civilians (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/043601.php) or beheading Turks and Iraqis (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/044009.php). So, please excuse us if it is difficult for us to take your protests seriously. The media and the extreme Left only seem to care when these hostages are their political allies. We have been advocating on their behalf regardless of their nationality or political affiliations for much, much longer.

Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 02:54 PM (JQjhA)

53 Exactly, where were you when Ronald Schulz and Jeffrey Ake's lifes were at stake? Ronald is dead and Jeffrey is still missing and presumed dead by the media.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 03:16 PM (5E0ex)

54 Jesusland carlos, You're a hoot. The line about Bush spends like a liberal is one of the best I've seen on the blogs in years. Hey everybody, JC thinks Bush is spending money hand over fist to help the poor and needy!! Crack up. And leave Janie alone. She already said she's not Ronald Reagan (doesn't negotiate with terrorists).

Posted by: Robert at January 19, 2006 03:24 PM (ByaZN)

55 No Jesusloon, I will not admit it. Can you possibly understand that it's not about labels and political parties and separating left and right, Liberals and Conservatives, which are one in the same corrupt, money loving government. You're proving my point that you're not worth a quality debate. You aren't able to see past red and blue. You obviously cannot imagine beyond your own reality. It's like dealing with a child. Honestly, what's your proof that any group is more 'wacky'? Your hard years of experience as great american liberal? How pathetic. Since you have supposedly been a Liberal all your life, and you constantly assail them, that means you hate yourself (if you were stating that as a joke, that you have the liberal 'inside' info, then your sense of humor is just not funny). But I know what you're doing. You want me to defend an argument that plays into your hateful little hands, one that you argue every single day. I can see you goading people, and I fell into it. People like you exist to piss everyone else off. Anybody who classifies themselves as one thing or another is a fool. Toe the line politics is brainwashing. And when you state that a Liberal is this or that, you're playing that brainless game. How about this? Next time, instead of calling all liberals idiots, name particular bi-partisan idiots (there's plenty from all walks), and you might just gain some credibility. God would be pissed that such a hateful person goes around sporting a jesus moniker.

Posted by: logicland at January 19, 2006 03:26 PM (fpt7S)

56 >>>Hey everybody, JC thinks Bush is spending money hand over fist to help the poor and needy!! Robert, Bush's prescription drug program is the biggest social spending plan in 40 years. Hey everybody! What a hoot.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 03:33 PM (8e/V4)

57 >>>Since you have supposedly been a Liberal all your life, and you constantly assail them, that means you hate yourself logicland, you need to change your name to moronland, seeing as logic doesn't appear to be your forte, to say the least. I'm no longer a Liberal-- but a conservative-- thus "hating" Liberals would actually mean I love myself. All you've done in that extended rant is prove that you don't have to be a Liberal to be a total moron.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 03:40 PM (8e/V4)

58 Jesusland, if you think that the wealthiest 1%'s share of taxes decreased due to recession, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't mind conservatives, I just mind liars, and you are one. Further, the prescription drug benefit is not the biggest social spending plan in 40 years, not by a long shot. And more important, that spending goes to drug companies with only the slightest of help to the elderly. Again, Bush spends a lot, but it is handouts to defense contractors and drug companies. It is not traditinal social spending on porgrams that benefit the public, unless you argue trickle down. That is a huge distinction. pillaging medicare and welfare programs and burdening states while giving away money to drug and bomb makers can hardly be considered social spending. Why don't you get your highschool degree before you post like you have some education.

Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 03:41 PM (pBKzg)

59 This is truly disgusting and your attempts to cloak yourself in prior advocacy is pathetic. What you have done in this post can be judged on it's own merit and it has none. You have taken the statements of a mother (whom you acknowledge has a right to try anything to try to secure the release of her daughter), and create a strawman of "extreme left" to argue against. Well guess what you ass, she is a mom, not a senate minority whip or a repesentative of the "extreme left", and all the views you posit to argue against are unsupported by a citation to the holder. In other words, why should I take your view of what extreme left wing people think. In fact, why should I accept your view of anything, since you are just making it up as you go along. You dolt.

Posted by: Joe Chicago at January 19, 2006 03:41 PM (9+hGc)

60 Jesusland doesn't know what he's talking about. SHOCKER!!

Posted by: Robert at January 19, 2006 03:48 PM (ByaZN)

61 It seems unreasonable and exploitive to seize upon an appeal by a woman who is just trying to figure out how to say something, anything, that will carry some weight with her daughter's potential murderers--and then hold it up as some kind of exemplar of "Leftist rhetoric" to make a political point.

Posted by: trrll at January 19, 2006 03:50 PM (6ORla)

62 Oh, boy, here come the moonbat trolls. Go back to Kos and see if he says 'screw em' when he talks about Jill Carroll. That is his view on others who were captured and beheaded in Iraq. When you can give me a link or comment where you showed your concern for other hostages other than the Lefty variety, then come back. Otherwise all you trolls need to begone!

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 03:54 PM (rUyw4)

63 Jommama, Platitudes. That's all we get from you Lefties. Statements of "fact" that aren't fact, no examples, no evidence, nothing. Oh, and accusations of "ignorance" and of being "liars". This isn't Kos. If you know of a bigger social spending program in the last 40 years than Bush's prescription drug program, I'd be happy to hear about it. Otherwise SHUT YOUR YAPPERS.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 03:56 PM (8e/V4)

64 "prescription drug program" Which just goes to show Bush is wasting his time (and money) if he thinks spending like a liberal is going to get him any liberal votes.

Posted by: dcb at January 19, 2006 04:27 PM (8e/V4)

65 crickets

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 04:29 PM (8e/V4)

66 Jesusland, you read two lines and called me moronland. Brilliant. Just like a little kid. You're no longer a liberal, right, you've changed brains. Did you just put the 'conservative chip' in? Even your language - moonbat trolls - is so unoriginal, every political hack calls everyone else that. You're clearly incapable of having an adult discussion. I'm beginning to think 'all your life' isn't all that long. Or your losing it - ....Must...stick...to....conservative....idealogies... I guess we could sit around a call each other morons all day, but that's not worth it to me. So have a good ignorant life. The gene pool is shallow my friend, and you are flapping in the wind. And you clearly you need to change the Jesusland title with all that hateful bile dribbling out of you.

Posted by: logicland at January 19, 2006 04:38 PM (fpt7S)

67 moronland, all I asked you if us conservatives were less wacky, and then you flamed me. So please don't talk to me about "adult discussions" and "hateful bile." It's clear I'm dealing with an idiot.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 04:49 PM (8e/V4)

68 jesusland, Social security, Medicare, Medicaid and Interest payments on public debt all swarf the prescription drug program. Or did you mean NEW spending program. You might have had to finish highschool to understand how leaving out a single word can change the truth value of any statement. Now you may go back to being poor, uneducated and fearful.

Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 04:55 PM (pBKzg)

69 But taking Mrs. Carroll's words as an example of Leftist rhetoric, do you see how the underlying assumption is revealed? The insurgents would not kill Jill Carroll if they understood that she is a journalist on their side. The opposite, then, must be true: if Jill Carroll was a pro-war journalist then the natural course of events would be for the insurgents to kill her. Argghhh!!! Jawa Report, you cannot take the modus tollens and then simply reverse the implication. For fuck's sake, learn some basic logic! Arrgghhh!

Posted by: elendil at January 19, 2006 05:01 PM (QrbjA)

70 Jommoma, maybe you were playing hookie the day they taught us math because I said "the last 40 years", and Social Security goes back to the days of FDR. Do I need to count backwards for you? Also, Medicaid was created just OVER 40 years ago in July of 1965, and the same goes for Medicare. Like I said, bro, this isn't Kos. Thanks for playing though.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 05:03 PM (8e/V4)

71 "Social security, Medicare, Medicaid" hey Winger, does it hurt to be that ignorant?

Posted by: dcb at January 19, 2006 05:09 PM (8e/V4)

72 We can't?

Posted by: Howie at January 19, 2006 05:15 PM (D3+20)

73 Perhaps you should learn to read instead of playing 'gotcha' and 'take quotes out of context'. I am not accusing her of being on the Left, but the same rhetoric comes from organizations such as The Christian Peacemakers team, Giuliana Sgrena's Il Manifesto, and murdered hostage Margaret Hassan's CAIR International--all on the Left.... Of course, if I were a relative of Jill Carroll I would be doing anything and everything to secure her release, even if that meant taking the "she's not your enemy" tactic (even if that meant paying ransom).

Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 05:27 PM (JQjhA)

74 Jesusland, Go read your post. You should have said "new" or "created." Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid are all programs that have been active in the last 40 years, regardless of when they were created. You see the distinction? Probably not. Maybe you should finish highschool. And that says nothing of the fact that the precription drug plan benefits drug companies far more than the public. Why I even bother with poor, uneducated hicks like you from the heartland, I'll never know. Your religion and fear have damaged your brain.

Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 05:28 PM (pBKzg)

75 I have updated the post to reflect the fact that I did not intend to attack Mrs. Carroll. I apologize if my words could have been read that way because of some amount of clumsiness.

Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 05:37 PM (JQjhA)

76 So some of the people on the left are hypocratic - this is your headline? Mind blowing stuff really. Rightos (the millions of them) never show an ounce of hypocrisy about anything, especially death. So what did you teach us that we didn't already know? Oh right, you didn't give a shit about that, just pointing to the evil "other side". Everbody is capable of hypocrisy. This particular brand you describe is detestable, I agree, but instead of naming people who actually said these things, you intend on offending as many people as possible. So what's the point? With divisive people like this, there's no hope for any of us.

Posted by: floyd at January 19, 2006 06:19 PM (6KkLz)

77 jommoma, Congrats. You win on a grammatical typo. Enjoy your thin gruel. And yet, my statement that Bush spends like a Liberal still stands. hahaha! dcb, Bush can spend twice as much and it won't buy a single Liberal vote. It just brings out the Libs and their newfound concern for deficit spending.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:29 PM (8e/V4)

78 jesusland - you're only care is winning. your life must be sad.

Posted by: taoland at January 19, 2006 06:33 PM (6KkLz)

79 taoland, you sound like another moronic troll. Have a nice day.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:35 PM (8e/V4)

80 and you sound like a lost little boy, who's scared and strikes back at all who comes near. have a nice life in your hole.

Posted by: taoland at January 19, 2006 06:41 PM (6KkLz)

81 I'm cut to the quick. do you want a cookie?

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:42 PM (8e/V4)

82 Jesusland, Do you have another insult than troll, for christ's sake? I can see basically you're the only common post here throughout. What a loser.

Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 06:45 PM (6KkLz)

83 >>>"Do you have another insult than troll," how bout "you stupid cocksucker". haha! boy, you people are dopes.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:49 PM (8e/V4)

84 good job jesusland, that's totally original. man, you're great. You take the bait every time.

Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 06:54 PM (6KkLz)

85 >>>man, you're great. You take the bait every time. I bet that's what you'd tell someone if he clocked you one and you were lying on the ground seeing stars. You MEANT for him to do that!!! hahaha! what a dope.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:59 PM (8e/V4)

86 I'm sorry, how does that logic work? Oh that's right you're a jesus freak and don't follow logic. Ever heard of irony? Oh that's right you'll just follow the next post with an insult and hahaha, unable to realize what a fucking tool you are.

Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 07:06 PM (6KkLz)

87 >>>Ever heard of irony? is THAT what it was? Oh, you Libs and your "irony." You see, I just thought it was plain ol fashion stupidity. I guess I got too much jaaaaaysus in my head! And this one's for you: hahaha!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 07:16 PM (8e/V4)

88 man, you never quit. this is much fun. i could do this all night. your a great preparation for all the assholes in this world that i have to deal with on a daily basis. i gotta rack my brain as to how fucking stupid a person has to be to come up with the responses you have. i bet your proud of yourself that as everyone else gets on with their life, like i'll be doing now, all you get is the last word on a message board. loser.

Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 07:47 PM (6KkLz)

89 omg, you sound like such a whiny little bitch. Trying to act all brave when it's obvious you're on the verge of tears. I bet you went home crying to mama. What a loser.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 08:12 PM (8e/V4)

90 "The insurgents would not kill her if they knew that she was a journalist on their side." Why are you putting your own thoughts into Jill Carroll's mother's mouth? You're rephrasing the administration's now-abandoned mantra: "you're either with us or against us". Karen Hughes and her predecessors miserable ongoing "make-kissy-face" tour is all about trying to convince former allies and supporters around the world we never really meant that. Jill Carroll reported on the reality in Iraq: our commanders wanting more troops, contrary to what Rummy tells us; the huge majority of Iraqis believing we don't care about their security and safety and wanting us to leave; Rumsfeld's ineptitude that has resulted in Iran calling the shots instead of us -- and you have to paint her as being "on [the insurgents'] side". The same spin the president has been selling for two years. But she HAS gotten on Rummy's "enemies" list. So, if her family did want to try and appeal to the insurgents on the basis of "the enemy of your enemy is your friend", you ought to just keep your pie hole closed. You're a tough guy to talk trash about the family of a girl threatened with death. I admire you for your unflinching willingness to face her demise.

Posted by: Svejk at January 19, 2006 08:33 PM (m/Lj/)

91 Hey Svejk, Thanks for the insight, one question? where were you as Rusty stated earlier on the hundreds of posts about people from Nepal/Iraq/Morocco/Sudan/Jordan/etc were kidnapped threatened with death from insurgents? Nice of you to finally make an appearance, I think most of you are proving his point.

Posted by: dave at January 19, 2006 08:49 PM (CcXvt)

92 "Karen Hughes and her predecessors miserable ongoing "make-kissy-face" tour is all about trying to convince former allies and supporters around the world we never really meant that." Now who's putting words in other people's mouth.

Posted by: dcb at January 19, 2006 08:53 PM (8e/V4)

93 Rusty you're an idiot. The woman is appealing for the release of her daughter and I imagine she'd say anything she thinks would work. The idea that her appeal reveals something about "the left" is just stupid.

Posted by: mike at January 19, 2006 09:01 PM (1tVHw)

94 Why don't you dumb asses read what Rusty said? Every bit of it. Damn, you're stupid. Just read what Rusty said. He is not criticizing the family at all, and sympathizes with their plight. He even says he would do the same thing, as any of us would if it were our family member that was a hostage of these animals.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:25 PM (rUyw4)

95 Jill is a journalist; neutral. She doesn't deserve to be harmed in any way. Prayers going out for her. This blog by the "Dr" makes me ill. Terrorists are losing this battle. They will be crushed in the long run. And, if anything bad happens to Jill, let the Coalition send a wave of pain over the terrorist cowards.

Posted by: Jackie at January 20, 2006 12:08 AM (0o9Js)

96 As a friend of Jill Carroll, and someone who just stumbled across this piece of crap blog trying to find information, I have to say this: fuck you. To turn this into a political football demeans not only the situation but what her family and friends are going through. This is an amazing woman, someone whose strength and intelligence you couldn't even imagine. And to sit here and talk the absolute bullshit that you are... well, karma's gonna be a bitch. I can only hope. You hide behind your stupid fucking stage names and make jokes and remove yourself from the situation. You hold Jill's mother as an example of the left or the "extreme left" or whatever and it disgusts me. These terrorists are a bunch of cowards, hiding in anonymity and taking advantage of a female journalist, putting her family through hell. But you guys aren't like that, no. That sounds nothing like your modus operandi. Do not hold the Carroll family up as some metaphor for your imaginary enemies. And I'm not misunderstanding you: you'd do the same thing if you were in Mrs. Carroll's shoes. But then you'd be robbed of the golden opportunity to bitch about the media and liberals and homosexuals and whatever retarded tangent your mind takes you to. I can't believe I have to answer back to a bunch of unthinking idealogues spouting bullshit on a page based around Star Wars. (Good luck at the Dungeons and Dragons tournament.) But it's just too much. You're all a bunch of heroes. Really. Honestly, I can't understand these terrorists for the life of me. I can't understand you any more. And I vote in the same elections as you. I appreciate everyone who's stood up for Jill and what her family is going through. To the rest of you, I wish you'd say it to my face instead of starting pissing matches online.

Posted by: Michael at January 20, 2006 12:16 AM (byT59)

97 You'd think from the hysterical rant above that Rusty had said "fuck em" or something. But unlike the Leftwing scumbag Marcos Zuniga, who actually cheered when American contractors were dismembered and burned, Rusty actually is quite clear about how unfortunate this entire situation is. And Rusty's point is valid, even if you're emotional proximity renders you unable to see it. This woman's appeal is a reflection of a larger issue. Care to address it? If not, we'll understand.

Posted by: dcb at January 20, 2006 12:47 AM (8e/V4)

98 As a liberal, naturally I have a lot of sympathy for terrorists. The best way to solve problems is through violence and force, not through vigorous negotiation and politics. Because I'm a vegetarian, I fully understand their willingness to burn American mercenar...excuse me, contractors and behead captors. Because I'm a believer in separation of church and state, I fully sympathize with al Qaeda's goal to "restore" the caliphate, institute Sharia and drive Islamic infidels like Saddam from power. I'm glad to see that the rightwing fully understands the situation in the Middle East and is capable of recognizing that bin Ladenism equals support for gay marriage, affirmative action, privacy, and a United States so weakened it actually feels honor bound to abide by agreements it signed.

Posted by: tristero at January 20, 2006 08:16 AM (Ea1SS)

99 You commie liberal morons are alot of the reason this propblem has not been solved .... it should have been dealt with when the first US hostages were murdered by these animals. I will say it again ... in hopes that Mr Bush is reading. Pull our civilians out of there and DEAL with the situation. Deal with these fanatical idiots ... HARSHLY once and for all. We are fighting enemies we cannot see. They will not stand up and fight us like men. These cowards deserve no sympathy from us, and they certainly do not deserve any respect. Wake up!!!

Posted by: Dee at January 20, 2006 08:39 AM (HUims)

100 Jill Carroll is a foreign correspondent, trying with a great deal of courage to cover the news. She has put herself into a dangerous place to write for one of the most respected publications in the United States so that people can gain some insight into what is going on in Iraq. She is not an ideological football. She may well be doomed. That is sad. I have spent more years than I would like to think about myself as staff correspondent for international publications in a lot of countries in Asia. There are very few among us whom I have met who are seeking to advance an agenda. We are in the countries we work in because we are seeking to understand, sometimes in great danger, what drives them, and to relate what we have learned to the world. Bloggers seem content to sit in their undershirts, drinking Pepsi through straws, trolling the internet to confirm their prejudices. Jill Carroll does not appear to be that kind of person. She is a journalist in the best sense of the word. I hope she is not dead.

Posted by: John Berthelsen at January 20, 2006 08:47 AM (hOPt7)

101 John, that sounded almost like a eulogy. Very touching. But I don't see any comments on this blog that might suggest Ms. Carroll isn't/wasn't possibly the finest human being that ever lived. But the issue is not Jill Carroll, but her mom's comments. Care to address the substance of the post? That was a rhetorical question obviously. Rusty's post nails you people to the wall, so instead we get all the faux outrage and touching eulogies.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 09:13 AM (8e/V4)

102 "Enemy of Iraq" could mean so many things that it's essentially an empty phrase. Does it mean one who is against the insurgency? Or one who is against the average Iraqis who strive to live in a peaceful democracy? Rusty's post seems to assume the former; I'm not sure the mother wasn't talking about the latter w/r/t her daughter. She says that her daughter loves the Iraqi people (whom we are trying to secure and liberate); Rusty interprets that to mean that her mother is telling the insurgents that her daughter is somehow "on their side." And even if that weren't the case, the phrase "enemy of Iraq" is still so vague as to make it impossible to infer subtext from the mother's statement and draw a corollary from it. Personally, I think when the mother said that Jill was not an "enemy of Iraq," she meant exactly what Rusty said: "she is a human being who poses no immediate threat to [the insurgents'] safety." It does not necessarily mean she was telling the insurgents that Jill is on their side.

Posted by: Ryan at January 20, 2006 09:54 AM (2TKeV)

103 Another fine example of conservatives conflating insurgents and terrorists for the purpose of ridding the world of refined thinking. Also a disservice to Jawas everywhere.

Posted by: Necromancer at January 20, 2006 09:59 AM (fcGkj)

104 Fine, here it goes. Mrs. Carroll's comments reveal nothing about the left or right. It reveals a woman who is trying to do everything she can to get her child back. She's not going to say how she's going to kill them all. To make a leap from her cry for mercy to supposed blindness on the left is as disconnected, illogical, and insensitive as me trying to compare your navel-gazing, arrogant writing to the reason why conservatives haven't cured cancer yet. The substance of the post is ridiculous and it nails no one to a wall.

Posted by: Michael at January 20, 2006 10:00 AM (cQv/5)

105 >>>Personally, I think when the mother said that Jill was not an "enemy of Iraq," she meant exactly what Rusty said: "she is a human being who poses no immediate threat to [the insurgents'] safety." It does not necessarily mean she was telling the insurgents that Jill is on their side. Finally one single solitary courageous Lefty takes up the challenge! Hat's off to you, Ryan. And yet even assuming that what you say is true, and given the wording of her appeal, then Mrs. Carroll would also have to be implying that the terrorist kidnappers themselves aren't enemies of Iraq. Feel me so far? And by logical extension, therefore, she's implying that our troops and the elected government of Iraq IS the enemy of Iraq. Her only out (and yours) is to argue that everybody killing each other over there is a friend of Iraq-- just in their own different ways. But that pretty much puts you back in the terror symp camp all over again. It's a conundrum.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 10:05 AM (8e/V4)

106 J.C. - I'm having trouble highlighting text, so I'll just respond without quoting what you wrote. I see what you're saying... without delving into the thick forest that is trying to determine the meaning of the phrase "enemy of Iraq," I would say that logically speaking, you are correct - in saying that her daughter is not an enemy to Iraq, the mom is implying that the insurgents are also not enemies of Iraq. My response to that takes us out of the realm of cold logic to a much more basic place - it appears she's telling the insurgents what they want to hear. Or not necessarily what they want to hear, but something which might appeal to whatever humanity still lies within them. Since she's speaking to the insurgents, it really doesn't matter what you or I think "enemy of Iraq" means - it's about what the insurgents think it means, and whether or not it's enough to free her daughter. Like Rusty said, I think any of us would say *anything* in order to free one of our children from such a situation. It does not necessarily mean she truly believes that the insurgents are friends to Iraq, and/or that our troops are its true enemies. Accordingly, it really doesn't make the phrase "enemy of Iraq" any less empty, at least for the purposes of inferring and deriving the respective philosophies of the left or right w/r/t the GWOT and/or Iraq.

Posted by: Ryan at January 20, 2006 10:21 AM (2TKeV)

107 Ryan, I too would say whatever it took to get my daughter released. And that's why Rusty isn't really jumping down the lady's throat about it. He's using her comments as metaphor, and he explains how far better than I could. I don't think that means we're using their plight as a "political football." But this is happenning in a larger context, and I think it's ok to talk about that.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 10:43 AM (8e/V4)

108 >>>Another fine example of conservatives conflating insurgents and terrorists From the look of it, Jill Carrol and her mom are pretty terrorized.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 11:02 AM (8e/V4)

109 Jesusland, You people are so rabidly right-wing that you see conspiracy everywhere. The woman was just trying to appeal to whatever humanity the kidnappers have left. She certainly did not say that her daughter was on the side of the insurgents/terrorists. For you to read that in her words indicates how sick and depraved your mind really is.

Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 20, 2006 11:21 AM (jNXzj)

110 Devil, maybe you should look up the word "conspiracy", and go back to high school and touch up on your reading comprehension skills.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 11:39 AM (8e/V4)

111 jesusland The "metaphor" dodge is pretty lame. If his argument really had any validity at all, he shouldn't have had any difficulty finding an example that would make his point without exploiting the plight of a woman desperately trying to find some kind--any kind--of argument that might save her daughter's life.

Posted by: trrll at January 20, 2006 03:25 PM (6ORla)

112 Negotiate with Terrorists? That sounds familiar. Reminds my of those days in the 80's when the famous leftist Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists on several occasions. That list of terrorists would include Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Ladin, amongst many others in the middle east. Remember the Iranian Hostages? Terry Waite? All of them returned with Ronnie Reagan negotiation$. "You're doing a heck of a job, Rummy." -Saddam Hussein (translated from Arabic to Republican) bok bok Chicken Hawks (nice post by Michael - I second it)

Posted by: Lars Gruber at January 20, 2006 05:43 PM (NXi5I)

113 Lars, you're an idiot. You don't can't even tell the difference between a terrorist and a dictator. No matter, as long as you can make your idiotic point. See, as despicable as Saddam is, he isn't a terrorist. He's a dictator. Ditto the Iranians. Regarding your Osama crack, he's Jimmy Carter's creating. Learn your history.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 06:17 PM (8e/V4)

114 40 years a military dependent-former Republican Dad was a nuke spook/former spouse Special Warfare- May I suggest that any and all progressive, thinking Americans (OK, liberal to you facist types) who are wasting time on these type of blogs and NOT getting up OFF THE COUCH to really change things, please do so now. This whole blogging thing is wonderful if we the living, who know change is critical for America's health and the declaration of victory in Iraq, are also OUT IN PERSON, Kay? Please spend time away from your keyboards to share your rational observations and solutions beyond the privacy of your own home office or wherever. If the thugs in DC don't see us in person, we don't really exist. Remember how easily the 2004 Election was hijacked by Diebold Corporation. What was said in the blogosphere changed nothing...

Posted by: ANNE GABRIEL at January 20, 2006 07:00 PM (eg8Dg)

115 "If the thugs in DC don't see us in person, we don't really exist." Even when they see you in person they don't really care. They know you aren't going to vote for them no matter what, plus they like the occassional freak shows you put on display for regular folks. It only makes them stronger.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 08:11 PM (8e/V4)

116 "Remember how the 2004 elections were hijacked by Diebold Corporation" And some of you libs accused us of being conspiracy prone. Now that's a good one, just as I heard today where more Demothugs PLEAD GUILTY TO VOTING FRAUD.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 20, 2006 08:39 PM (rUyw4)

117 You do know that all countries who say they don't negociate with terrorists actually do negociate, right? Even Israel.

Posted by: Sirkowski at January 21, 2006 05:39 AM (KKR9m)

118 Jesusland is a moronic, ignorant, and bigoted fundie. He is also clinically paranoid like all extreme right-wingers. Let's ignore him. There is no point responding to the lurid muck he spews on a regular basis.

Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 21, 2006 08:29 AM (ImpfT)

119 Anyone who criticizes the parents of this poor young woman is sick. The family is doing anything and everything they can to secure the safety of their child. You, I, and anyone else would do the same. Any normal parent would walk on hot coals for their children. I would imagine both parents had some help on what might be helpful to say from US and perhaps Iraqi officials as well, as the wrong response could likely inflame these fanatics rather than soften them. I believe one Jawa poster is correct on the point that releasing Ms Carroll has to benefit them in some way, otherwise it is not likely to happen. If she is harmed, I still call for Mr Bush to unleash our full potential on these people. We are sick of being held powerless by the aclu and other liberal morons. If anyone doesn't agree, they need to be prepared for kidnap and torture right here in our own neighbourhoods, because it WILL happen. All liberals - Sit down and shut up!

Posted by: Dee at January 21, 2006 08:45 AM (HUims)

120 Dee, Did you mistake this blog for a liberal blog? Read the main piece: it's a rightnut, paranoid, rant, implying somehow that Mrs Carroll's words show sympathy for the kidnappers. As for you, poor extreme right-wing victims of the ACLU and the "Left" (whatever that term means), I do not feel your pain. It is us, true conservatives (you know, the ones who believe in fiscal responsibility and in keeping the government out of our homes and lives) who are hostages of the right-wing radicals who are running this country into a ditch. So, sit down, Dee, and shut the fuck up!

Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 21, 2006 09:31 AM (NvhA8)

121 Dee, you're a bigger moron than even Devils advocate. Nobody has criticized the parents of this woman. Can't you people READ? Is it really possible you're really this stupid? Or is it just hippie laziness. No wonder you hippies all end up working at Tower records.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 09:35 AM (8e/V4)

122 Jesus-ass is stuck in a time warp. Hippies went out of fashion a long time ago. And yes, his dumb head is firmly stuck up his ugly ass.

Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 09:47 AM (NvhA8)

123 The ones that aren't stupid hippies are hippie wannabes. That's why you spend your time protesting and blocking traffic and lying in the street pretending to be "dead" while the rest of us are being productive citizens, and actually WORKING. Get a job, loser.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 09:57 AM (8e/V4)

124 Jesus-kook, I bet you are a NASCAR fan, and that you have never read a book in your entire pathetic life. Sorry to disappoint you, but I have better than a job, I actually have a career. And I do not lie on the streets: the ground is too dirty. I would not want to ruin my expensive clothes. Again, hippies went out of fashion thirty some years ago. Join the 21st century! Got your head out of your pimply butt, yet?

Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 10:34 AM (h2HXW)

125 I forgot to tell you, Jesus-six-pack-Joe that I am one of these elitist intellectual, who lives in Manhattan (New York not Kansas), frequents the opera, loves art movies, drinks good wines, and speaks fluent French. Now, I picture you as a beer-bellied slob, who speaks in tongues in front of hysterical audiences in some backward church somewhere in the heartland where people are so dumb that they do not believe in science (not that they would recognize it if it bit them in the ass). I bet you watch nothing but Faux News and that you listen to fat druggie Limbaugh. I bet that you have never been outside of the U.S. and that you are totally ignorant of the ways of the world. In other words, like most of the morons who believe in Bush, you are just white trash. Have a nice weekend.

Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 10:44 AM (h2HXW)

126 Evil, never seen NASCAR, but I don't have a problem with it. Do you? Why? Is being a self-superior elitist snot a requirement for you Libs? As far as my edumacation, I could tell you, but that would only make me as big an elitist snot as you.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 10:47 AM (8e/V4)

127 >>>I bet that you have never been outside of the U.S. hahaha! that's the best one yet. I've travelled on four continents and lived on three. I grew up overseas, you fucking idiot. You can't even CONCEIVE of a life like mine. That's my one concession to your Liberal elitist contest-- which you would LOSE hands down if I deigned to keep playing it with you. You, on the other hand, think yourself a world beater because of your one semester abroad to Costa Rica. Wow! impressive! Shocking!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 11:14 AM (8e/V4)

128 "edumacation"? "A semester in Costa Rica"? Where did I write this? Are you on drugs in addition to being stupid, or have you missed your daily dose of anti-psychotic medication? Again, have a nice weekend in your backward, unsophisticated, stultifying, mediocre, world. I am off to pursue some elitist interests with my elitist friends in my elitist city.

Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 11:41 AM (NvhA8)

129 >>>"edumacation"? "A semester in Costa Rica"? Where did I write this? Oh, I don't know. Where did I write Rush Limbaugh and NASCAR? Boy, you people are dopes.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 11:48 AM (8e/V4)

130 >>>unsophisticated Most Libs only play at being "sophisticated." I've hung around Libs all my life, so I know. And I can assure you--also having hung around with sophisticated people all my life in my years overseas-- that they don't go around trying to prove how sophisticated they are. The more you try to prove it, the more of a wannabe you are. You're little more than a nameless, faceless, wage slave apartment-dweller in some disease-infested blue city who blames "the Man" for your sorry plight, and who pays so much just to live in that city that you've got nothing left with which to pursue your "elitist interests." Wishful thinking.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 12:03 PM (8e/V4)

131 Evil Progressive, You are truly one of the most disgusting people I have ever seen post on a blog. Do you think anyone here cares whether you go to the opera, love artsy-fartsy movies, drinks whatever wine, speaks French(the better to surrender with, I suppose), and lives in NYC? You just make us sorry that you weren't in the WTC on 9/11.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 21, 2006 02:28 PM (rUyw4)

132 Jesus-white-trash, you are soooo easy to bait! Are you apoplectic yet?

Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 22, 2006 09:39 AM (nlWFp)

133 White trash from you I accept as a compliment. You should be at the opera, or perhaps fellating a Islamist. You are nothing but a whore, anyway.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 22, 2006 02:44 PM (rUyw4)

134 Be careful what you write here people. If you string together too many words like "terrorist", "roadside bomb", "Al-Qaeda", "insurgent training camp" or "jihad" you'll trip some code at the NSA and might receive an unwelcome visit.

Posted by: PetDragon at January 23, 2006 03:26 PM (rxBPn)

135 Why would I be scared of a visit from NSA or the FBI? Are you scared of one?

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 04:25 PM (rUyw4)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Why terrorists take hostages.

1) Take hostage.
2) Make demands.
3) Demands are met.
4) Release hostage.

Lesson learned? Taking hostages is effective. Take more hostages.

BBC News:

Iraq's ministry of justice has told the BBC that six of the eight women being held by coalition forces in Iraq have been released early.

The six were freed because there was insufficient evidence to charge them, a justice ministry spokesman said.

The US forces have refused to confirm the releases, but say they would not be based on any operational activities.

The group holding US journalist Jill Carroll has said she will die unless all Iraqi women prisoners are freed.

The status of prisoners held by coalition forces is reviewed twice a week by a committee made up of the justice, human rights and interior ministries, and a representative of the US-led coalition.

The justice ministry spokesman said it was this committee which had studied the cases of the six women and found insufficient evidence against them.

UPDATE: Speaking of caving to terrorists demands, the sister of the Iraqi Interior Ministry has been released. If you will recall, she was taken hostage by a group claiming to be The Revenge Brigade. This is the same group that is holding Jill Carroll hostage.

Thanks to George for sending this BBC link:

The sister of Iraq's interior minister has been freed some two weeks after being kidnapped at gunpoint, an interior ministry official has said.

Ali al-Khaqani confirmed Bayan Jabr's sister had been released, but would not say whether a ransom had been paid.

Posted by: Rusty at 10:20 AM | Comments (19) | Add Comment
Post contains 313 words, total size 2 kb.

Yesterday The Revenge Brigade released a video tape of American journalist and hostage Jill Carroll claiming they would murder her if all female Iraqi prisoners were not released by the U.S. That demand--that women be released from prison--has been a common one among jihadi terrorists in Iraq.

No doubt those jihadis believe the lies and propaganda put out by pan-Arabic and Leftwing media that the U.S. is detaining hundreds--if not thousands--of women. Worse than that, these media outlets claim that U.S. forces routinely murder, rape, and purposefully humiliate Iraqi women.

So, how many women is the U.S. holding in Iraq? EIGHT.

No doubt there have been abuses in Iraq, but to claim that America is systematically demoralizing Iraq's women when only eight of them are being detained is a lie of magnificient proportions. Such lies and propaganda have consequences. The continued killing of American troops and kidnapping of civilian hostages is one of them.

ABC News.

U.S. forces in Iraq said on Wednesday they were holding eight women prisoners, after the abductors of an American journalist threatened to kill her if the authorities did not free all Iraqi women within 72 hours.

"We have eight females. They are being held for the same reasons as the others, namely that they are a threat to security," said Lieutenant Aaron Henninger, a spokesman for the U.S. military detentions operation. Some 14,000 men are held at Abu Ghraib and other jails on suspicion of insurgent activity.

Posted by: Rusty at 09:11 AM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
Post contains 271 words, total size 2 kb.

UPDATE 2/09/06: Third Jill Carroll hostage video here.

UPDATE 1/30: Second Jill Carroll hostage video emerges.

Scroll through for updates or check the MAIN PAGE here or our pages dedicated exclusively to Jill Carroll for the latest news on Jill Carroll and other hostages in Iraq.
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A new video has emerged of the American journalist Jill Carroll taken hostage by terrorists in Iraq. The fifteen second long video aired by al Jazeera television was broadcast with no audio. The terrorists claim they will murder Jill Carroll in 72 hours if their demand for the release of all female prisoners in Iraq is not met.

The Jawa Report is currently searching for a copy of the unedited, original hostage video and will post links to it and images from it as soon as they are available. If you have a copy of the video, please send via the e-mail listed at the contact page above.The YNC has some of the video as aired on Fox News, but not the original. Shawn has the BBC video of the same. Both are worth a look. Jill looks like she is in good shape on it. Pray for her release.

The Jawa Report was the first American media to reveal Carroll's name after she was taken hostage on January 7th. The Christian Science Monitor had asked news media to not report miss Carroll's name in those early hours, no doubt taking advice from the State Department which believes such information can be harmful. We disagree. Experience has shown that the more these hostages names are in the headlines, the greater the chance for their survival. Background on Jill Carroll can be found in The Jawa Report's Jill Carroll archive.

UPDATE: Jill Carroll's translator Allan Enwiya was murdered at the time she was captured. Iraqi in America is soliciting donations to help Allan Enwiya's family here.

Al Jazeera, never missing a beat, chooses to play up the angle that Carroll was against the war. Presumably the video mentions which group took Jill Carroll hostage, but al Jazeera does not give the public that information. UPDATE with hat tip to Jesusland Joe: While al Jazeera continues to say that no group has claimed the tape, this from the AP notes that the video played on al Jazeera was emblazed with a logo reading "The Revenge Brigade". Often when a group is named 'brigade' it is an indication that it is a smaller subunit within a larger organization. More on "The Revenge Brigade" below.

The fact that the terror organization is demanding the release of all women prisoners is not a good sign. This is a common demand from Salafist organizations such as Abu Musab al Zarqawi's al Qaeda and The Islamic Army in Iraq. Both groups routinely murder those they hold hostage. An earlier announcement said to be from al Qaeda in Iraq claimed they were holding Jill Carroll hostage. Al Jazeere:

The abductors of US journalist Jill Carroll have threatened to kill her if the United States does not free Iraqi women prisoners within 72 hours.

Aljazeera aired a brief video on Tuesday showing Carroll speaking to the camera, without broadcasting her voice.

Carroll had been on her way to a meeting with Adnan al-Dulaimi, a Sunni Arab leader whom she had intended to interview, the newspaper had said.

Carroll's former employers The Jordan Times published a Sunday editorial, stating: "The kidnappers who abducted her could not have chosen a more wrong target. True, Jill is a US citizen. But she is also more critical of US policies towards the Middle East than many ArabsÂ… Jill has been from day one opposed to the war, to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. "

The abductors of U.S. journalist Jill Carrol have threatened to kill her if the United States does not free Iraqi women prisoners within 72 hours, Al Jazeera television said on Tuesday.

The station aired a brief video apparently showing Carroll speaking to the camera, without broadcasting her voice.

More on The Revenge Brigade: A group with the same name held an Iraqi born Christian named Minas Ibrahim al-Yusufi, who had Swedish citizenship, hostage for some months. The group initially threatened to behead him, released a hostage video, and then he was released unharmed. At the time, rumor was that a ransom had been paid.

More recently the group has kidnapped the sister of the Iraqi Interior Ministry and made the same demands that they are making for the release of Jill Carroll. Oddly enough, the group also demanded an apology for the raiding of a Shia mosque, yet Interior Minister Bayon Jabar is also Shia. UPDATE 1/18: Jabar's sister has been released. Did they pay the ransom demand?

Thanks to George for sending this BBC link:

The sister of Iraq's interior minister has been freed some two weeks after being kidnapped at gunpoint, an interior ministry official has said.

Ali al-Khaqani confirmed Bayan Jabr's sister had been released, but would not say whether a ransom had been paid.

A previously unknown group says it has kidnapped the sister of Iraq's interior minister and set conditions for her release, including the freeing of some Iraqi women prisoners, Al Jazeera television said on Wednesday.

The group which called itself the Revenge Brigade said in a statement received by Al Jazeera that it wanted the release of women who were detained on charges of resisting the occupation.

Al Jazeera said the group also called for a halt "to the storming campaign launched by the security forces which are affiliated with the interior and defence ministries".

Others: Digger's Realm notes that Jill is the 31st journalist taken hostage in Iraq.
Chad at In the Bullpen believes this might be a ransom case.
Thirdee: Those with any type of understanding of the enemy we face know that these animals couldn't care less about Iraqi female prisoners.
Clarity and Resolve: Way to go, Team Jihad.
EuphoricReality has their usual great commentary. I would remind them, though, that the demand for the release of female prisoners is quite common. The same demand was used right before they murdered CAIR International worker Margaret Hassan.
All Searching Eye notices that the MSM doesn't want to use the 'T' word to describe Jill Carroll's captors.

Tin foil patrol:

DU reaction:

Bombing, raping & torturing civilans... Oh wait if its being done by the good old US of A its not the same.

Funny that those whom we dub "terrorists" in Iraq
would be viewed as "the resistance" if WE were
under occupation by a foreign power.

Funny that some people CANNOT see beyond their own noses.

First of all, exactly what in the hell is a moral war? I am not under the impression that a war can be moral.

Next, why do WE kidnap civilians in Iraq with regularity? Why do WE torture people to death in Iraq? Why do WE torture kids in the presence of their parents in Iraq? You're obviously not equipped to answer these questions, so take them as rhetorical and go do some reading.

Posted by: Rusty at 04:05 PM | Comments (107) | Add Comment
Post contains 1224 words, total size 10 kb.

1 Rusty, you have data and a causal theory about revealing the identities of hostages in Iraq. Why not write it up social-science-style?

Posted by: See-Dubya at January 17, 2006 04:30 PM (IcOvg)

2 "The Jawa Report was the first American media to reveal Carroll's name after she was taken hostage on January 7th. The Christian Science Monitor had asked news media to not report miss Carroll's name in those early hours, no doubt taking advice from the State Department which believes such information can be harmful. We disagree." I didn't know you guys were this type of jerks.

Posted by: actus at January 17, 2006 04:33 PM (CqheE)

3 What's a 'social science'?? Anyway, from talking to hostages and their families, this is THEIR theory which I respect a lot more than that of the State Department.

Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 04:33 PM (JQjhA)

4 We all know what kind of a jerk you are, Actus. Why don't you go troll somewhere else? My theory is you are the dumb ass agents we had here for several weeks before you started commenting again. They have now mysteriously disappeared, and you have reappeared. What a coincidence. Rusty, you have done it right. Keep up the good work. Actus has never shown any concern for our hostages before, as he and his ilk are more likely to say "screw 'em".

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 04:47 PM (rUyw4)

5 The kind of 'jerks' who have actually taken the time to talk to the families of hostages and who listen to what the hostages themselves have to say about it. That kind.

Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 04:49 PM (JQjhA)

6 "My theory is you are the dumb ass agents we had here for several weeks before you started commenting again. " Who? "Actus has never shown any concern for our hostages before, as he and his ilk are more likely to say "screw 'em"." I have a friend who knows this girl, and am delighted that you have ignored the requests of the people she was working for.

Posted by: actus at January 17, 2006 05:15 PM (CqheE)

7 What is it about libtards that they just have to try to make good, decent people hate them? I can't say why myself, but I'd like to line 'em all up and shoot them with one bullet if I could, just to avoid wasting more than one bullet.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 17, 2006 05:18 PM (0yYS2)

8 Does any one think that Bush will do as Al-Qaeda is requesting? No This is what Bush is living by he instigates and creates such rehearsed acts. The publicity just gives more reason for Bush to stay in Iraq under false justification. Bush ordered her taking and her killing. Bush is the terrorist. It is time now to reveal the truth and from this day on whoever of you who decide to take up with any of Allah's enemies and the ones that have turned on Islam Let it be known that Allah is great and he knows who each and every one of you is the trader the enemy and the hypocrite. So let us make option number four option number one of Bin Laden and Bin Laden alone without any members of the al-qaeda. Let us say that Bin Laden is working with President Bush right now as we speak and lets say that even going back to the 9/11 and to the bus load of children in Russia to the London attacks. Please let us continue with the truth and let me reveal the truth I know that most typical Americans do not like the truth and they do not accept the truth, mainly because the people of the USA are on satins path and that is the easy path do not disturb all things handed only evil filled with greed with no principals of life and no values at all. So now we have the truth out and all that really care to go with Allah in the after and those who really care about peace on earth you will listen and you will see the truth and you will take the defense of this earth for peace for Allah and for Islam. Please make your minds clean for one moment and listen to all that is going to be said to you. Just imagine Bin Laden teamed up with Bush, All recruiters from Islam seek Bin Laden for the justice and the principals and loyalty that each individual has to fight for the cause of Islam and to fight against the enemies that have invaded their lands killing their people every day. These individuals are fighting for the same cause that the USA military is fighting for in a matter of speaking, but what is the same is that they are both fighting by the same guides they are both being MIS LEAD. USA military is lead by Bush with his orders for what? To fight to justify the 9/11 and to take out a bad President. That is not what the USA military is there for at all it is all an illusion created by the enemy of Allah Satan and he lives and breathes from the Washington, DC each and every USA President Satan lives through. Now you have Bin Laden he recruits by telling the people they need to fight for a good cause Islam for Allah against the enemies and all is understandable and taken and right, But, Bin Laden is not having the ql-qaeda fighters for the real principals No, Just like Bush they have their own reasons for this fight for these killings, a show that will never end conflicted chaos by the USA as usual Satan loves nothing better then to cause chaos and put one another against each other causing so much chaos that you will not even know who the enemy is any more. But for sure Bush and Laden think that they have fooled the world and they have but not this one no I am lead and I have been chosen by Allah to guide the good people to the right direction and save the good Muslims from turning. After the 9/11 attacks yes Bush had planned for the hide out for Bin and secure of his family. The end results for these two are world dominance control of the world inflicted by evil greed by Satan him self. Bush and Bin have certain attacks set up to be taken out by a mislead faithful good Muslim who is only thinking that he is serving Allah when in fact he is only serving Satan for mislead by Bush and Bin. After these attacks are taken out the blame goes on to the Muslims of Islam as from the beginning of the 9/11, Then Bush keeps his excuses and he justifies why he is invading other countries, because Iraq is the first on the list. Sure the USA gov society has made you now wanting to go against the Muslims because you want their oil yah you want because you are mislead by evil greed by Satan. Then while innocent good loyal Muslims are fighting by mislead reasons Bush has justification to continue his terror acts around the world. Who do you think killed those school children in Russia? Yes, you know as Bush said al-qaeda but what Bush left out is that al-qaeda is Bush and Bin. You see so while the entire world is being mislead and brainwashed thousands of lives each day are being killed all for Satan to have his way. The USA is great for causing chaos they have caused so much chaos in Iraq that Bush succeeded his plan so far. But that is because he has not been revealed until now. Bush plans to let the Muslims kill each other pull out the USA troops now because he knows his work is in full motion. Then Bin get s to come in after all USA troops are gone and Bin as promised get s to lead Iraq and the Islam worlds but little does Bin know that Satan really lies within Bush and Bush will have Bin killed and then he will have control over all the people and take out Islam. This is his plan and then he will be in control of the oils just as the USA started with invading and killing the Indians Satan is still at his work. If you can take another minute and look back at history of chaos inflicted by the USA. The biggest discrepancy through Islam and christen is Jesus as who he is. There is no one in this world that can justify who Jesus was. The only thing that is possible to say and to know is that Jesus was a messenger of GOD and the only acknowledgment of Jesus that is important and fact is that all people should agree on this. Islam does agree on this so why the conflict? Because the USA wants to create chaos Satan wants to create chaos by the Americans being evil and ignorant to just cause chaos they turn around and say Jesus is GOD. When in fact I as I speak know that Jesus is not GOD. In the Quran it states that you are not a true believer if you do not believe and accept that Jesus was a messenger of GOD and most of you do not even know that. You only know what Satan wants you to know. I If I call on each person in the world to open up your hearts and minds and turn to Allah and seek in him the answer from the information that I have just revealed to all of you on behalf of Allah. As I will not stand by and watch this ignorance and dis respect of Allah and his people and his earth not one more second. I have revealed the truth and I will do what ever I have to in order to protect Allah by the principals of Islam for my true good brothers and sisters of Islam. Islam calls for peace and unity between Muslims not chaos amongst ourselves. The Quran also demands for justice to defend Islam for peace and stability of the Muslims make no doubt about this and all shall do as Allah expects from us. The enemy has spreaded his evil across the world and creating chaos every where you turn. If we all did what is expected of us from Allah there would not be is much chaos. Allah will seek to help us true believers on his own. At his will he will wipe out Millions not thousands by any hurricane or earthquake or other disasters as such as the people still are turning away from him. He now will take the bird flu and he will make a start himself there will be millions and millions to die it will be so bad that you will see people laying in the streets dying from this disease. It is not curable at Allah's will you cannot change. This will be the final awareness that you will receive of this matter. It is up to each and every person here on this earth to choose which path they will take keep with Satan Bush and Bin relief and peace through Allah. Americans must reestablish a new government and Islam must establish a new jihad with principals by the Quran only. I am ready to help both sides I have solutions for both sides but it is all up to the people as to what they want and what they choose. The dat will come soon that I will be able to reveal all of my plans and we can then unite and work for real world peace. Your Islam Sister, Alison Shunstrom ashunstrom@yahoo.com

Posted by: Alison Shunstrom at January 17, 2006 05:19 PM (y6n8O)

9 The evil ones are the ones taking hostages. Not Rusty. Not the State Department. There are no right answers when you're guessing on which methodology works better with a bunch of homicidal maniacs. Do you cut the red wire, or the blue wire? When the timer is at 00:01, you close your freakin' eyes and cut.

Posted by: a4g at January 17, 2006 05:26 PM (k3V8s)

10 The really scary thing about Allison is that she is an AOL user. That means she's here, in the U.S. I shiver to think.....

Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 05:32 PM (JQjhA)

11 The ID thing is water under the bridge - I myself felt it was a mistake without at least family permission. Either way - back on topic It doesn't look good for her. The MSM is in a bind. Its staked itself out as essentially anti-Bush's Iraq - but can't acknowledge its own fears and dislikes of the nature & ideology of the actual enemy. Engage a muslim (conservative or otherwise) in discussion - you will discover their contempt and distain for the Western Left and its values - its amazing! At least she had the courage to go outside and confront her fears and aprehensions to cover a story (regardless of her slant). The rest of the MSM will remain in their hotels and within the Green Zone and phonne it in ala Hunter Thompson.

Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 05:32 PM (3aakz)

12 Guess the mothership has arrived!

Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 05:35 PM (3aakz)

13 And all along I thought the anti-Christ was going to be a man, and it turns out to be female named Allison. Who'd a thunk it?

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 05:52 PM (rUyw4)

14 So Alison, I believe Jesus is the Son of God. One of the three parts of the Trinity and I will never change that belief. I am willing to leave you alone with your heresy. What would you do with me?

Posted by: Brad at January 17, 2006 05:58 PM (3OPZt)

15 actus, go back to getting ripped apart by Goldstein. Clod.

Posted by: Vinnie at January 17, 2006 06:09 PM (Kr6/f)

16 How ironic that the leftard Allison posted right after me, considering what I had said. It's going to be great when they do decide to try to take over America, I'm going to build a mountain of skulls and park my recliner on top of it.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 17, 2006 06:13 PM (0yYS2)

17 "actus, go back to getting ripped apart by Goldstein." Mr. 'i'm not end of history but I know you are."

Posted by: actus at January 17, 2006 06:19 PM (CqheE)

18 Actus, just go back anywhere but here!

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 06:22 PM (rUyw4)

19 Alison, go take your Midol.

Posted by: slug at January 17, 2006 06:26 PM (0YdQw)

20 That screed by Allison has to be the best one yet. It isn't a lack of Midol that caused it, slug, but a complete lack of any sense. My God, girl, seek immediate medical attention!

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 06:32 PM (rUyw4)

21 Rusty, I think someone is trying to provoke a poopstorm against this alison by posting her email address here attached to this crap. Especially since you said the poster tracks back to an AOL address but apparently uses a yahoo email.

Posted by: See-Dubya at January 17, 2006 06:42 PM (IcOvg)

22 I think you are doing a good job Rusty. When hostages are brought to the attention of the media all the time it does save the hostage's life. When people forget about hostages, the terrorists kill them. Look at Dean Sadek, Aban Elias and Jeffrey Ake. They have been missing for a year and nothing has been mentioned of them. Dean and Aban's captors never made a single demand. Their families have been silent. In my opinion, the fact that Roy Hallums's family(God bless them) kept Roy's plight in the media helped him greatly. It kept him alive because the terrorists knew that Roy's family and compnay were willing to negotiate.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 17, 2006 06:43 PM (5E0ex)

23 I can't believe Allison is anything but a troll. But assuming she isn't, you can see what we're up against. Self-loathing American liberals so bent on trying to be fair-minded, that they lose touch with reality and endanger this country. I'm with the guy who wanted to get 'em all with just one bullet. I'm sure some of you remember the late 60s in the US. That was wild and sometimes violent. But I can't ever remember the kind of vitriolic hatred expressed by the left for the country that makes their pathetic lives possible. Makes me want to puke.

Posted by: Richard at January 17, 2006 07:02 PM (W8EsU)

24 According to the Associated Press, The name of the group that kidnapped Jill Carroll is The Revenge Brigade. The name appeared in a logo on the video. It looks like Al Qaeda was full of shit when it said they kidnapped her.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 17, 2006 08:16 PM (5E0ex)

25 As if NOT revealing the identity of Carroll would have kept her safer. Puleeeze. And Allison, could you repeat that please?

Posted by: Thirdee at January 17, 2006 08:39 PM (zhvTF)

26 thirdee Safer? No. But it would have shielded the family here in the US from media attention which could have been unwanted (at a time of family crisis) and disturbing. Its my understanding Rusty spoke to the family prior - I hope so. If not, (and it was my family) I would be pissed. Anyone want to argue that with me - feel free. It may appear I'm siding with actus on this particular point - so what.

Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 09:04 PM (3aakz)

27 I think it was common knowledge in the journalism ranks that Jill Carroll was the only female reporter in Iraq working for the Christian Science Monitor. The press already knew it was Jill, so I don't know why Rusty publishing her name had any effect on the family, but hey, I could be wrong. I do know that Rusty has been there for the hostages when no one else even cared, and that covers a lot of sins as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 09:16 PM (rUyw4)

28 Had the family asked us not to publish her name, we would have respected their wishes. It was the CSM that asked, not the family, and not because it might hurt the family. For some odd reason these organizations believe that the less publicity the better.

Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 09:41 PM (JQjhA)

29 Also, had the CSM asked us we also would have complied for a time, but they didn't. I guess we are a little below their radar screen, eh?

Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 09:50 PM (JQjhA)

30 More from our good friend Alison, perhaps from a previous life. http://victoriaadvocate-proxy.nandomedia.com/special_sections/I_remember/story/2154489p-2495918c.html

Posted by: Alex at January 17, 2006 09:59 PM (l2oeP)

31 Rusty That's all you gotta say - I trust you. When my unit first deployed to Iraq that was one of our fears - some guy getting himself captured - and the media camping out in front of the family's home for reaction. NYC is THE media market - imagine the possiblitiy. We set up an ad hoc rear group just in case .. off the clock, civilian clothes - even touched bases (un-offical of course) with the local PD pcts. Anything goes down - we'd be there. Media would expect an unopposed circus - instead they'd get a variation of "the family business approach".

Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 10:06 PM (3aakz)

32 First of all, I do not believe Alison is a female. Female muslims are not allowed to speak as she did in that post. Second of all, the male terrorist supporter is in a country that allows the use of the internet. This means they could very well be in the US. As someone else pointed out, that is a very scary thought, but it is possible there are many of them here. We have allowed them to come here and hide out, waiting for the right time. It's coming, don't think for one moment we are safe from them here. They are fanatics, incapable of reason or morals as we know them. They hate our way of life, our freedoms, and the fact that, while we are not perfect, we have options in life. They do not, and will never have. We can never be like you, so we will kill you ubless you become backward, fanatical, and violent. That is the long and the short of it. They cannot be reasoned with, understood, changed, shamed, or sanctioned. They have nothing to lose and no incentive to live tis life well. The only incentives given to them are to die for allah so they can go to heaven Got the picture????? Geeeeezzzzz. How mny people will have to star in one of their snuff films before the people in the rest of the world wake uop? Or do we want to be afraid in our own neighbourhoods of these things happening here? It's coming folks.

Posted by: Dee at January 17, 2006 10:17 PM (HUims)

33 Why bother reacting to a denizen from the Mothership? Its un-necessary wear and tear on the keyboard.

Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 10:25 PM (3aakz)

34 I think that whoever kidnapped this woman and is threatening to kill her are agents of Satan and despicable demonic monster scumbag sons of whores who deserve to die a slow torturous death.. What bunch of evil woman killers..you morons.. you lowlife monsters..

Posted by: Geoffrey at January 17, 2006 11:47 PM (Tw02g)

35 >>>but I'd like to line 'em all up and shoot them with one bullet if I could, just to avoid wasting more than one bullet. roflmao!!!

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 18, 2006 01:10 AM (8e/V4)

36 Family permission? Since when did that stop the major news networks from publishing names of kidnapped people known worldwide, huh? IMHO if Rusty was the first to publish in America it doesn't change anything at all. Please don't pay any attention to the noise of the tinfoil brigades, whose agenda as we know is to divert attention and blame everyone else except the evil kidnapping thugs who created this situation in the first place. Shame on them, not Rusty.

Posted by: V at January 18, 2006 04:20 AM (BeTNH)

37 Somebody call CNN, and find Eason Jordan. It turns out somebody really is targeting journalists and reporters.

Posted by: SCSIwuzzy at January 18, 2006 06:34 AM (35Dku)

38 I agree with the decision to publicize the name of the hostage. It humanizes her and makes bad propaganda if they kill her. I recall that the Dept of Defense advised the families of Vietnam POWs not to draw attention to their husbands in Communist captivity, for fear it would make their situation worse. It was bad advice. When the wives mounted their own propaganda campaign to publicize the plight of their husbands, it turned the tables on the North Vietnamese. Their treatment improved from that point forward because so much attention was focused on them. Admiral Stockdale claimed that his wife saved his life by publicizing his situation. Quite frankly, the State Department has never impressed me as a bastion of good judgement. I would not accept their advice at face value. That said, my gut feeling is that the reporter's kidnappers are common criminals posing as terrorists who will settle for a ransom covertly paid. We should not pay it but rather post a reward for information leading to the capture or killing of the kidnappers.

Posted by: Tantor at January 18, 2006 08:47 AM (K3i9w)

39 You see, once again, religious beliefs cloud a persons mind. Alison believes that Islam fights for a good cause, "ALLAH". When in fact she had no knowledge of ALLAH when she was born. ALLAH was taught to her by her parents because that is what they believed. She (like so many others) failed to to stand up for her self. Be a leader not a follower. She (like so many others)fall upon a "follow" state of mind. NOTE* I am not a DR. in the phsycological area. I am not a doctor at all. I consider myself an American because I live here, I was born here. I am a "leader" I choose what I want to believe in. I have read the stories of Jesus and Allah and see no difference in the sense that both state that what they do is for good and to believe in them or in Jesus's case, his father. I do not care for either. I don't know of any God's. I have never met one and if you have, by all means introduce me to him/her. What I do see is racial, religious, mislead psycos taking an innocent civilian and killing him/her. I don't recall seeing a U.S. Military soldier doing this. I don't see President Bush living the "high-life" while his country lives poverty. I like the way America does business. We have become the most powerful country because we have everyone from around the world (that includes muslims) unite with us. They help pay (with taxes) and defend their own freedom. This is what no other country will give them. If Islam is so great why do muslims move to America. Does Allah have stock in 7-eleven stores. (LOL- j/k .I had to throw that one in.) Listen, all I'm saying is that we are all human beings and just because we have different beliefs and opinions. we don't need to fight over that. You have to live for the moment. GET A LIFE AND WHEN YOU DO, ENJOY IT!

Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 10:07 AM (MOKXn)

40 The Islamic Witch test If she can demonstrate her support for terror her 'credentials' will win her release. If she is innocent she will be beheaded. The irony being that rather then being burned at the stake, as a witch, she is released to burn us. So we can only hope she is a collaborator and so earns her safe release. That is why, I suspect, her fellow newsies wanted to cover up the abduction as that would provide them time to demonstrate she 'deserved' to be released. Also... How many of these 31 newsies siezed were on their way to an interview? Doesn't that always seem to be the pattern? So why isn't anyone investigating the potential 'leaks' of these interviewees to terrorists?

Posted by: DANEgerus at January 18, 2006 11:04 AM (J8yxJ)

41 I feel for Jill, just the same as I would for anyone (including muslims) who is threatened and/or killed without reason. She like so many others were doing what they enjoyed most, telling the truth. She reported so many things that were vital to everyone. She saw first hand what was really happening. The only mistake was being there. (my opinion) Just because you want to be noble and do the right thing doesn't always mean you have to put yourself in harms way. As I can say for myself. I wouldn't be there unless I really had to. She had a choice just like others (nicholas berg). It's the same as what's going on in the next city. For instance, The next city over from yours is known as a high crime rate with killings almost everyday. Do you buy a house there. HELL NO!! And that is what she did. She knew the consiquences and put up tent in there front lawn. I feel bad saying all this but if I have to spell this one out to save lives, I will. America has Military. They are trained to defend and kill if necessary, Oh and some of our U.S. Military soldiers do have Islam background. How's that for Ironic. But, just the same they too are brave and they too are Americans that I would stand next to and be proud to defend our freedom. With that said, let them handle the situation, mean while, any non-military person, please stay away from there. I wish the safe return of Jill and everyone else there, especially our troops. Don't be religious, BE CIVIL

Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 11:06 AM (MOKXn)

42 T.B.: There's lots of killing done by non-religious people, too. Don't fall prey to "post hoc, ergo propter hoc." YBP

Posted by: youngbourbonprofessional at January 18, 2006 03:01 PM (tdhAh)

43 Point Taken Youngbourbonprofessional, i was just speaking to the issue at hand. This war is based solely on religious beliefs. "Jihad". But, I do see your point as well. I think others have jumped on the band wagon. Also, I didn't mean "don't be religious" as it came out wrong. Be religious and have your beliefs but don't try to make others understand them. It's offensive.

Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 03:20 PM (MOKXn)

44 Dear Taco Bandit: Hmmm. How about "Try To Explain Why You Believe Something But Don't Force Your Beliefs On Others"? Pax, YBP

Posted by: youngbourbonprofessional at January 18, 2006 03:57 PM (tdhAh)

45 the U$ should release all iraqi female prisoners- the only reason they hold them is for bargaining chips against iraqi males who participate in defending their homeland. once they are released- and according to the BBC they just released all but 2 of the iraqi female prisoners today, then Jill should be released. this website still sucks balls tho'

Posted by: Jawa Sucks at January 18, 2006 04:34 PM (n3EHA)

46 YBP, I take it that you are religious. If so, may ask what religion? Whay are you religious? an Why did you choose that religion out of so many religions? Taco Bandit

Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 04:49 PM (MOKXn)

47 That is true you are no Doctor or anything in that nature. I am a native American, I was deprived learning Islam, I was born Muslim and since I found Islam by the grace of Allah leading me where I belong. That is where you are correct, I would have been weak and could not claim such if I were only taught by my parents Islam, but for my strength that Allah has given me to be a true good Muslim I am more stronger and more wiser then the Muslims of Islam that were brought up Islam by their parents. I do not have to answer to any of you, I only have to answer to Allah. But as a good Muslim, I would like to offer this to you as you were in the dark and now that you have been en lightened by this truth you it may help guide you and make you realize that what I speak is of only truth. As for me being a female and you saying that I as a female Muslim am not allowed to speak you see that is how deprived you also have been and without knowledge of Islam. Allah expects of a woman the same loyalty and faithfulness as of the man. Allah expects the woman to act accordant and feminine yes but Allah Loves more the woman that can fulfill all of Allah's wishes and then to be loyal to Allah's wishes to help spread protect and defend Islam. Please all of you go to your local Mosque and you can ask for a Quran and read it. You should not fear the truth. It is typical for Americans to ignore the truth and to not accept it. But the time has come that it is demanded to live by the truth and no more lies. You will find out that you CANNOT be a true Muslim If you do not Believe and accept Jesus as Allah's messenger. You see, you people do not know anything about Islam you just listen to all the lies. None of you accept Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) Allah's last and final messenger. This is the conflict and the problem, you then try to turn around and cause chaos and create problems by saying that Jesus, Allah's messenger is in fact Allah is in fact GOD. Do you know how ignorant you people are to even suggest such an ignorant thing? It shows that you disrespect Allah and you do not appreciate your lives. The USA just wants to create chaos spreading their evil ways so they can profit and change and be in charge. You have no respect for any one or anything. You think the way that others live are wrong because you could not live the way they live. Go to another country a poor one and you will see who has the principals who has the values and who are the happy ones you will see that you are the losers and you are the jealous and you are the evil ones filled with hate, to just destroy and take over not thinking about any one or anything. Only your greedy selves in what you can get and take.

Posted by: Alison at January 18, 2006 09:50 PM (Ffvoi)

48 The false prophet seeks to decieve by speaking of Jesus. Yes Lucifer tells many lies and appears as an Angel of light. The basis of Satanism is to offend god. That is why they say the Lords Prayer backwards. It's the same as when terrorists call out to god as they butcher an innocent. No man or woman can live and "equitable relationship" with God. What man can stand before God and be judged. None not one. Well there is one whom Allison speaks of. But had she ever known him she would see the idol worship and how the offense to God in his name make Lucifer smile. We are bless because of Gods will not in spite of it. Tell me if Islam is doing God's will why are it's countries not the most blessed. Would God ever bestow such great blessing to our stewardship if it were as you describe? Would he let so many of his children in the middle east suffer if they deserved better? It's not us screwing up the world and blaming us for it misplaced. You reap what you sow and the middle east is lying in the bed that it made itself. The wages of sin is death. I'll send you one Gospel if you want to save yourself from the Prince of Lies.

Posted by: Howie at January 18, 2006 10:34 PM (D3+20)

49 That alison person just reinforces the problem in defending these animals in any way. As a native American, you should be shot for treason for defending them. You think its ok to butcher people? You think its ok to torture women and children? You think its ok to saw off peoples heads, tape it, and send the tape to anyone? Wow. You are some piece of work. You are sick. This just proves Pres Bush's reason for needing to listen to people's conversations in an attempt to stop these morons from commiting terrorism here in the US. You and John Walker Lindh. Even US citizens can be supporters of these fanatical hoodlums. We are at war with an enemy we can't see. We are at war with ghosts, cowards, and sickos. They disguise themselves as civilians so we can't tell who is good or bad; we can't tell who they are either there OR here. Mr Bush, order our civilians out of that part of the world and proceed to take care of business. The first bombs should drop the second they harm Ms Carroll. They should have dropped when they killed the first US civilian hostages. Liberals .. sit down and shut up on this one.

Posted by: Dee at January 19, 2006 08:51 AM (HUims)

50 liberals are a bunch of communist in hiding

Posted by: celtic cross at January 19, 2006 02:41 PM (/8Kri)

51 Well,I still think everything I said before was right...but as someone posted on here before...This is about "Jill Carroll".However, it is about her,and I've said really all I can say in reguards to her...I just dont think it hurt anything by voicing my opinion about other things as well...And The only reason I did that is because I was sick and tired of alot of you saying its Bush & his administrations fault for everything that is happening.You can only say that so many times before you start pissing people off...You only do that because you dont understand the facts of the situations we get put in...If you take the time and look at the facts of each situation...Then you will see what I'm talking about...and you will also see that everything you thought before was pretty fuckin' stupid...Then & only then will you finally come out of your denial state of mind & take your first step into reality...Anyways,moving on...I'm having a hard time forming an opinion on the "No Negotiating With Terrorist" subject... Usually my answer is "Hell No"...but then I think about if it was one of my loved ones in that situation...I would do everything I could to save them...and the U.S. is conducting raids as we speak to try & save Jill...but they wont negotiate with terrorist...and I understand that...but just think if it was the Presidents daughters being held hostage...You think he would negotiate then???...and Im not knocking my President at all...I'm all for him...but whether you're a democrat or republican or whatever else...The U.S. Policy is "No Negotiating With Terrorist".That goes for even the highest in power in our political offices...but secretly... you really think they're not gonna negotiate for their sons & daughters?I think they would... but for us little people they just turn the other cheek...that goes for "Jill Carroll" too.All we can do as hope & pray her captors will release her...or that we will get to her in time...My thoughts & Prayers are with her family & loved ones...Lets just hope for the best....

Posted by: Clyde at January 19, 2006 06:17 PM (2Xc2N)

52 Alison...you're truly a fuckin' retard... Shut The Hell Up & go fix me & Dee a sandwich!!!

Posted by: Clyde at January 19, 2006 06:28 PM (2Xc2N)

53 I agree, you can't negotiate with terrorists. However faggots like Jesusland Carlos, brad and Jesusland Joe call me a liberal. Oh how I would love to break their knees with a baseball bat.

Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 07:24 PM (5E0ex)

54 Alison is definitely a retard, but ptobably a retard with explosives in the closet. If we are lucky, Bush will spy on Alison before she becomes the next suicide bomber. If Ms Carroll is not released, BOMBS AWAY on Iraq!

Posted by: Dee at January 19, 2006 10:04 PM (HUims)

55 I feel sorry for the agents who spy on her...something that nasty you could catch over the phone...And I agree...BOMB AWAY!!!

Posted by: Clyde at January 19, 2006 11:07 PM (2Xc2N)

56 T.B. I became a convert to Catholicism after studying the major religions because I found it to be the truth. YBP

Posted by: youngbourbonprofessional at January 20, 2006 06:03 AM (tdhAh)

57 If God is as pissed off at organized religion as I think He must be by now, don't think I want to be involved in any of it lol BTW, yes I DO believe in God .. a loving God. The God I know would never reward those terrorist sickos that do their disgusting deeds in the name of their god ... how SICK!!!!

Posted by: Dee at January 20, 2006 08:20 AM (HUims)

58 This Alison is not an American. Her use of the English language is very much like an Arab would have when they come here to study in a university. Sorry, Alison, but you are an imposter. I just wonder how many of these jihadist sympathizers we have in the US. Thank you, Jesus, for blessing us with the 2nd Amendment.

Posted by: jesusland joe at January 20, 2006 06:05 PM (rUyw4)

59 I went to middle school and high school with Jill Carrol, hell my best friend went on a date with her and I had several classes with her. I hope to God she makes it out of Iraq alive and in one piece. But, if I saw Mr. Bush today I would spit in his face because I know that if it was one of his daughters in her spot he would try everything in his power to get her free. The man is only concerned with himself and his kind. (wealthy) God please be with Jill.

Posted by: Chris at January 21, 2006 05:24 PM (iJ1XP)

60 They have no right to kidnap/Kill innocent people like that ! They are just a bunch of ignorant insurgents who are using religion for their own ends ,I`'m a Moslem but killing people and kidnapping people is not even in the "Koran" and now the question is how could they do that and everytime they kill someone they always said "ALLAH AKBAR" That is tottaly Bullshit !ALLAH has nothing to do with kidnap/killing and things like that ,every religion teach that killing and kidnaping people is inspiring evil !!!! But anyway for Jill Caroll and family I hope that all is going to be fine and we shall pray for it. *PS. Sorry people my english is poor and correct me if I'm wrong

Posted by: Harry " Indonesian" at January 22, 2006 12:31 AM (08dzx)

61 HEY, IT IS WHAT IT IS.YEAH ITS PRETTY SAD TO SEE WHAT HAPPEND TO JILL CARROLL.BUT CAN YOU REALLY BLAME THE TERRORISTS.THE IRAQI PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH A LOT.A LOT OF UNFAIR TREATMENT BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND I CANT REALLY BLAME THEM AT ALL.IF I HAD A COUNTRY, AND THE U.S. WERE CONTINUALLY BOMBING IT FOR OIL PROFITS AND KILLING INNOCENT LITTLE CHILDREN,(BECOUSE BOMBS HAVE NO NAME ON THEM) - I'D BE A LITTLE UPSET TOO.YOU KNOW.FAR MORE INNOCENT IRAQI'S HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF THE U.S. THAN YOU REALLY THINK.SO WHY BE MAD AT THE TERRORISTS.THEY ARE ONLY DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS RIGHT.THE UNITED STATES HAS DESTROYED IRAQ'S LANDSCAPE AND KILLED TOO MUCH PEOPLE.ITS ONLY CALLED BAD KARMA.ASK THE AFRICAN AMERICAN,HE CAN TELL YOU RAW STORIES OF WHAT HAS HAPPEND TYO HIS PEOPLE AS WELL TOO.I'M HEAVILY SURPRISED THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS DON'T PICK UP A GUN AND FIGHT THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AS WELL FOR ALL THE MISTREATMENT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS.BUT NOBODY LIKES TO TALK ABOUT THAT.FREE JILL CARROLL - FREE JILL CARROLL THEY WOULD CHANT.ONLY TO FALL ON DEAF TERRORIST EARS WHO WILL MOST LIKEY KILL HER INNOCENT SOUL ONLY FOR WHAT HER PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE GLOBE.I GUESS ITS WHAT THE BIBLE CALLS "AN EYE FOR AN EYE".SEE THE PROBLEM IS THAT JILL CARROLL IS THIS REPORTER LADY WHO IS AGAINST THE U.S. WAR AND SPEAKS BAD OF THE PRESIDENT,BUT THE PROBLEM WAS THAT ITS TOO LATE.PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT ANYMORE.THEY ARE JUST TIRED AND FED UP AMERICAN EVIL.DON'T BELEIVE ME ? ASK THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN HIROSHIMA.THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SO IGNORANT AND CONCEEDED.THEY FEEL AS IF AN AMERICAN LIFE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER LIFE OF PEOPLE IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY.THE ONLY AMERICAN LIFE THAT IS PROBABLY NOT THAT IMPORTANT IS THE NEGROE PROBABLY.(BUT WHO CARES ABOUT HIM,HE'S ONLY HERE FOR MANUAL LABOR ANYHOW.)BUT STILL I GUESS THEIR ARROGANT CRY FOR JILL CARROLL'S FREEDOM MOST LIKELY WILL NOT BE HEARD AS TERRORISTS ALWAYS DO.ITS A SHAME . MIGHT AS WELL NAME A STREET AFTER HER OR SOMETHING !

Posted by: eric at January 22, 2006 05:33 AM (FBfzU)

62 Jill Carroll's story is interesting except she might die. I am *NOT* on top of the data and kinds of techniques you are. I want her to go free though same as everyone. My message is that she's a victim of police entrapment. Bin Laden is an extortionist who can obviously have ties with the police. All the Iraqis, particularly the women, who are in the US now must be aware of her abductors identities. Apart of the confusion to get results in her case is due to Stalinist politics and more hidden agendas which you probaly think possible. I believe that she is still alive and I will continue praying for her with my mother.

Posted by: Mark Adamkiewicz at January 22, 2006 10:56 AM (T1xzP)

63 ALISON, Poor, Poor Alison. You have taken every word I have said out of context. I am not denying you of your rights to be a muslim. I was mearly suggesting that you should put down the "religious shield" and come to realize one thing. Realize that you "in a universal sense" are like every woman, man, or child that has ever walked this earth. You are no different except that the fact that you hold your own beliefs. Thus, it changes your personality, your perception in life, and your aura. This is what creates the karma around you. You praise ALLAH, excellent! Prasie ALLAH if that's what makes you sleep at night. (my opinion) You praise something that is written in a book some odd years ago. A book written by someone you don't know or will ever know. If that is your GOD, than so be it. If I could however, recommend "Clifford, the Big Red Dog" you might enjoy life better as he doesn't believe in Jihad or that every one else in the world are infidels because they didn't read his book. (my opinion) I believe this would save you the hassle and it would save the world many lives. Here's a few questions. there are so many religions out there in the world. I have come accross so many different opinions on personal beliefs. What makes yours more important? Is it important because you say so? Is it important because others believe the same? What if you lived your life through Allah all this time and when you die, there is no ALLAH? what if that GOD is another GOD, say; "Jesus" or maybe "Bumba" (The supreme god and creator of the Boshongo, people in Zaire)Why not, they are GODs just like your GOD. You can both sit down and argue till your both dead and then low and behold, you are both wrong. You come to find out that there was no GOD when you got there. What is wrong with that? Was your life that terrible that you had to quit believing in yourself and start putting faith in another? How can you be 100% and I mean really 100% that your GOD or anyone else's GOD in that matter are the true GOD? What is so wrong with opening your eyes to the beauty that lies around you? I know of one thing, we were all given a gift. A gift of each other. We (me, you and all those that live) have what no GOD will ever have a chance to do. We have a chance to show the GODs that no matter what kingdom they reside in. Our kingdom is here and now. We have a chance to prove them wrong! They may want us to fight, I don't know. But, if that's the case, I say screw 'em. We can be better than that! Here's a thought: If you want someone to tell you how to live your life and promise something better in your after life, call me. I will tell you what to do and promise you the world. And when you die and there is no after life then you will see that it was infact not me that has lied to you but, yourself that has lied to you. Then you can come back to me and complain. You can pay me what you give to your Mosque each week. Forget what you hear, believe what you know!

Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 22, 2006 11:19 AM (MOKXn)

64 Note* How is it possible that America and countries alike are capable of getting so many different religions, cultures, and races to live amongst each other in unity for so long? Is it wrong for ALLAH biding muslims to live and learn from infidels as they have and still do? You hate our religion and our life style yet you bang on our gates to let you in it. CHRIS -- I'm sorry for you and the family and friends of Jill. Out of all of us on this blog, you appear to be the closest to her. I hope she returns safely. My heart goes out to her. YBP -- congrats on finding your truth. I was born into catholic myself and to speak freely ment I could not be biased for one religion. I gave up my right to be catholic for a better right. I gained the right to say we are all gods in one way or another. If being a god is what creates, then we have created many. If being a GOD is what explains only that, that can not be explained, then we have found a reason for it (i.e.higher power) We are all heroes in some sense and some form. You can save a person by smiling and acknowledging them.

Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 22, 2006 12:38 PM (MOKXn)

65 My prayers are with Jill Carroll and her family. I am constantly following her story on the media and hope that she has the same outcome as Roy,only shorter. Carrie and I were on CNN last night on the Carol Lin Sat evening show and talked about how we have 311 days of experience in what we did in our situation . Carrie has made a new website hostagefamilymatters.com Every hostage over there matters. We felt that Roy was forgotten at times and that was very painful. It seems that the media is covering Jill much more and that makes me very happy. It is a hostage crisis if there is any hostage anywhere... they are all important. I thank the Jawa for always being there to remember Roy . Rusty brought it out in the beginning all the way to the wonderful finish! I am sincerely appreciative of Dr. Rusty. I hope Jill and the others have the same miracle as my family, God Bless, Susan Hallums

Posted by: Susan Hallums at January 22, 2006 02:22 PM (OjS5b)

66 I pray every day for Jill. God Bless you!!!

Posted by: Uribe at January 24, 2006 10:50 PM (qYAl0)

67 We the people of christ, love Jill. Psalms 31:4 Pull me out of the net that they have laid for me: for thou art my strength. Psalms 35:17-18 how long wilt thou look on? Rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions. v18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among the people. Psalms 102:19-20 v19 for he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; form heaven did the LOrd behold the earth; v20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death. May God himself free Jill.

Posted by: Rev. Kerry Wayne Mallard at January 25, 2006 06:40 AM (lzC8o)

68 God is with Jill. I have studied the Bible and I have studied the Quran. I have found them to be quite similar in teachings. Although I view Alison to be somewhat misled, I also view some of you to be misled. I say that respectfully. I must say in Alison’s defense that it is true, Jesus was/is NOT God as most Christians view him. If "Christians" would simply read a Bible without being lazy and allowing priests and pastors etc... to dictate it's meaning to them, they would find this very Truth. We all have the God-given ability to understand for ourselves. Jesus NEVER once proclaimed to be God in the original Bible. Don’t want to trust me just because I’m not YOUR priest or pastor that you’ve blindly trusted? Then I challenge you to go read it for yourself. If you haven’t already studied it for yourSELF, then you don’t have any right to even try to deny what I’m saying. For 30 years of my life I was told that Jesus was God - and simply because I was told this, I believed that he was (I was raised Catholic and am now of no denomination - just "spiritual"). That UNtruth about Jesus came from another persons understanding instead of my OWN understanding... an untruth that has been handed down from generation to generation. It wasn't going to stop in my family until I picked up a Bible and read it for mySELF. The fear instilled in Christians that they will perish in the afterlife if they don’t believe what someone has told them to believe is what has kept them from leaving the organized religion and from even daring to question it. It was all based on money and organized control. Most Christians are still prisoners of that age-old continuing control. Don’t want to believe me or trust me? I don't blame you - you shouldn't be trusting pastors and priests with your life either. So go get your very own Bible that you do trust and start reading it. I have no desire to convince you – your own Bible will do that if you dare to put down your fear and simply read it. I only suggest you start with the New Testament since that’s where Jesus teaches you about himself and what you need to be doing with your life. Don't trust yourself to understand it for yourself? Then you're not trusting that God has any "power" to help you!! Do you want to believe people - or God? You decide. To anyone else not hung up on everything I’ve just typed: A simple fact of life has always been, “you can't expect someone else to change when you won't even try to change yourself”. Being a hypocrite is in conducive to anything. There are "religious fanatics" in EVERY religion. Just because there are religious fanatics in every religion, that doesn't make each religion "wrong". There have been just as many "Christian" fanatics killing innocent people in the history of the world as there have been any other type of religious fanatics killing innocent people. Just about every religion has blood on it's hands. Most Christians would simply be appalled at the history of Christianity and the innocent people it has killed simply for not believing in it!! The place to start in making it all stop is for each of us to take responsibility for our own spirituality... Christians as well as Muslims. Notice I said spirituality and NOT "religion". They are two totally separate things. Even if you never picked up a Bible in your life, or a Quran or any other spiritual teaching material, you STILL have the God-given ability to understand good from bad for your SELF. Live in good conscience. By your example others will follow. Trust that God guides you!! When people are knocking their heads together on an issue, it's because neither side is being open-minded. If you're being open-minded, then it's IMPOSSIBLE to knock heads with even someone who is trying to knock heads with you. If you feel you are knocking your head with someone else’s head, then therein lies your warning that you are being closed minded. We have to stop shutting out the Muslim understanding (as well as any other religions understanding) simply because we fear it based on it's fanatics. The basics of every religion (without fanatics) are saying the exact same things. We simply have to find the common everyday language where we ALL realize this fact. There is where peace will begin to flourish. Alison is having the same problem other people on this blog seem to be having: you can't force your religious opinions on anyone else. It simply doesn't work. You have to take what you've learned in your "religion" and apply it to life in everyday terms. Instead of talking at people with all yer religious mumbo jumbo - bring it down to today’s life and terms! In language we ALL understand. Then, keep in mind, the only thing ANYONE can truly change is themselves. Start with yourSELF. That's the challenge in the Bible. It's the same challenge in the Quran. Are you willing to make the changes from bad to good in yourSELF that bring you closer to perfection? If not, to coin someone else's quote on here, "you reap what you sow". Love to all… God is with Jill.

Posted by: Truth at January 25, 2006 03:27 PM (nsEn7)

69 It is apparent that most people here, and around the world, Buddishts, Christians, Muslims, Liberals, Democrats, Homosexuals, Atheists; and all the other labels that people have been slapped with; or they have slapped upon themselves; are ignorant. This is why there is war.

Posted by: Not the Truth at January 26, 2006 04:49 AM (HbFYT)

70 No - it's because there are people pretending to be God by sitting in a "judgment seat" and getting "pissed off" and hateful towards people who don't see everything THEIR way - as if "their way" were the ONLY way; as if "they" are "perfect". NO ONE is perfect! If anyone were perfect, that perfect person wouldn't even be here. Pointing fingers only causes MORE hate. But Loving and at least trying to understand everyone else causes people to open their minds so that the lines of communication stay open and the possibility for positive change can take place. It's the responsibility of EVERYONE in the world to stop judging. There isn't just one person or group of people or even multiple groups of people with "labels" in the world that are guilty of judging - ALL peoples are doing it. For each of us in the entire world to NOT point our own fingers at ourselves so that we can change the only person that we even CAN change is "ignorance".

Posted by: Truth at January 26, 2006 12:03 PM (nsEn7)

71 Sometimes it's not enough to speak truth to power; power can be very 'ignorant' when its beliefs and values are called into question. It is the responsibility of every human being to question just how much or how little 'power' they have. It's very bleak when all this strife and unrest is happening at the same time that people around the world are still concerned with their own petty squabbles and inconsequential hate and bitterness. Someone or something has to give in. Will the powers that be do it? Or will we keep fighting for someone else's beliefs? Does open lines of communication instill in everyman the real power to look past their own indignance or does it provide them with more fodder to fuel the flames of their burning desire for vindication? I burn everytime I see people spread hate and fire and believe in its justness and righteousness. And though speaking truth to power may not always be enough, I still believe in its potency and potential.

Posted by: Not the Truth at January 27, 2006 06:34 AM (HbFYT)

72 Truth IS 'power'. But depending on how much faith and understanding you put in knowing it, determines the magnitude of the power. Then again, this isn't the place that TRUE Truth/power reins. The material world is non-existent in the spiritual world and vice versa. So really, I have no place to speak. I realized this last night. We only dream that we have any sort of control over anything... when really, we don't. All we each can do is continue our own personal journey to what we consider real Truth. My understanding and my process of continuing to understand new things works for ME. Truth is powerful in MY little corner of this world. I've witnessed Love and Truth transform the gravest of situations into what others might call "miracles". But that doesn't necessarily mean my understanding can work on a greater/global scale. I'm not Jesus and I don't think I have enough understanding to be so self-sacrificial for the greater good. I apologize if I have expressed my opinions disrespectfully here! I think I have a lot of left over passion stirring in me from my initial realization that I had been deceived regarding what the Bible REALLY says. I think that is what provoked me to respond on this blog. I don't know what I thought I would accomplish - I apologize. I need to put it to rest once and for all in my own heart. If I could speak to Jill I would say: Keep being who you are... it appears that you Love the Truth and have been willing to stand up for it in your life. There is nothing more honorable than that. Hopefully, your captors will realize this and let you continue to help them. I've never met you - but I Love you - you are a wonderful example of what we all should be. I admire you and I pray for your safe return. I also pray that your captors will realize that NOT harming you will help the world to respect them and their cause. Love to all... God is with Jill.

Posted by: Truth at January 27, 2006 03:36 PM (nsEn7)

73 Whoever this Alison is should be taken a prisoner herself. Would her family cheer for her like at a football party if she was flashed acrossed CNN pleading for her life? Why not find out? She has no regard for anyone's rights, feelings or freedoms - but, she has the right to have her own. Her language skills do not sound like that of an American. Someone before had mentioned that also - good call. Not even a REALLY bad U.S. student. If she hates us, why is she here? For an "education"? If we're so horrible than why can't she educate herself in her own country? Why take a university spot away from an American student? I am a strong believer in the 1st amendment. I think we all are to some extent. She's not an American. Even if it turns out she has a birth certificate for here, she wouldn't be one because she would be classified as a traitor. So, she's not entitled to the first amendment. It only applies to our citizens. This is also why I am a huge believer in the 2nd amendment. And people that speak like she does make me thankful we have it. My heart goes out to Jill Carroll's family. No one would want to see their girlfriend, sister, daughter or granddaughter go through this. Nor would they want to endure it. If Alison wants to practice "jihad", go for it. Do it overseas in your "homeland" and take care of the job for us. Not every person who is Islamic is like this. That's sad because we group them in. However, Americans can not tell a good person from a bad person and we're not willing to see another 9/11 if it can be prevented. I think we can all agree. So Miss Alison, instead of popping a Midol, you should follow in the footsteps of another anti-American extremist. Since you already speak like a genocidal Hitler, pop a cyanide capsule and wait for us to find your body. You give women a bad reputation, you psycho bitch.

Posted by: LNotti1 at January 30, 2006 06:18 PM (xP7vn)

74 Who cares if she's executed??? Why in the hell is she over there??? She SHOULD BE EXECUTED for being so STUPID! It's a fucking war zone people....Stay out if you don't want to face the consequences. I have no sympathy for this dumbass.

Posted by: me at January 30, 2006 06:32 PM (c7Ula)

75 I'm not calling her a genius, nor am I saying she should be there. I said it was a rough situation. Very much for her family because they didn't make the choice. My sympathy was with them - reread my words before you twist my words. I have not ripped anyone apart, nor do I plan to. You are an American and I'm an American. I have family that has been KIA for this country and friends and family in Iraq now. My only hatred is for those who plot against us. They are the focus and deserve the nasty shit that's been said. Not those who don't think. I refuse to waste anger on an American who thinks with their ass. They are still one of us. In the long run, that's what matters. When you turn against your own it doesn't make you any better than the terrorists. They turn against their own and strap bombs to their chests. Should she be there? Hell no. It was her choice and now she has consequences. It's out of everyone's hands. Am I going to bash her because she's about to be beheaded? No, because it's not fair to the family. However, to go as far as to say it should be done to her, that's a bit sick. It's like you are endorsing what the terrorists do. It's ok to behead to teach a lesson. It's ok to take down the trade centers because it teaches a lesson. It's time THEY were taught a lesson. Do you honestly think her parents didn't tell her the same shit you said before she left? She should have listened.

Posted by: LNotti1 at January 30, 2006 10:42 PM (llDYC)

76 She obviously went there because she is an activist. She wanted to DO something that was important to her. Many great people with noble causes endanger their lives. That doesn't make them stupid. If more of us would do something instead of complain and argue more would get DONE. People are different, she is exceptional. So is everyone else over there risking their lives. She realized there was a place not so comfortable as her own surroundings and wanted to make a difference against all odds. Everyone has at least one correct piece of this puzzle - if all would listen to one another instead of killing anyone who crosses their own personal line. I am reading the Bible for myself and its interesting you say to start with the NEW TESTAMENT. I believe in starting with the first page. I've been going to church long enough so to me, its the right thing to do. Only, I find the OLD TESTAMENT to be extremely violent so far. For example, when people complain about food, GOD curses them to be so stuffed with food that it comes out of their nostrils. What about babies heads being bashed on rocks?? I look for scientific proof also. We have the dead sea scrolls, Noahs Ark in Turkey, etc. My boyfriend had a highschool teacher who particicipated in the exorcism that the movie was created from. He taught in a private school in Missouri, the exorcism done in St. Louis. The govt says they don't negotiate with terrorists, but in reality they do. The things we know are frightful, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. I have great concern for our children and grandchildren. Surely everyones heard of the New World Order. One or two sites on any topic could be lies, but there are thousands on this one. Current day Babylon is not in Iraq, but America. Bush is, at least was friends with Osama. The FBI even spyed on John Lennon. This govt does not like anyone who promotes peace. God bless this woman, all hostages, and every soul in Iraq and America to do the right thing with their lives.

Posted by: Shewalkslikesumr at January 31, 2006 03:33 AM (yUdEH)

77 It's interesting to observe individual views on this matter. For that I respond. When I first heard that Jill Carroll was captured I could not avoid thinking about it. I'm well aware of the horrible acts that have taken place up to this point- on America's side and on Iraq's side. It hurt to hear about these events. But this was different. After witnessing footage of Jill's disappearance, something drifted with me as I went about my week. Never had any news story whispered like this. I had only seen brief footage of her kidnapping. Why did this "mean something to me?" Days later I witnessed a first video release on the evening news. I didn't know the facts. I didn't know her background. What I did know was that she needed someone. When I looked into her eyes I found myself in her shoes, knowing that if there was one soul who cared for my plea, one soul who "really cared" and didn't forget my name with the news story seeing me as "another hostage" it would count more than life itself. This is her only hope. This is what the tears in her eyes plead for, as I witnessed tonight, January 30, with a second video release. If I could I would snatch her from that dreadful position right away, not caring about statics, background, or views. She's human. I'm human. That's enough for me. It has not been the television set that has given life to my thoughts of Jill. The night I saw the first video release I went for a walk in the night, my thoughts far from her captivity. Then it happened. I saw her face flash into my mind. I refused to disreguard this "hunch" though it would have been convenient to do so. At that moment I laid aside my exciting plans for the next day and did all I could do: I asked, if it was his will, for God to help her. To set her free. This is not a story of religion. These are my feelings, plain and simple. I prayed longer that night than I had prayed in years. "Pleaded" would be a more fitting word. With the thought of her I could not refrain from it. Days went by. I went about life. She was never far. I knew where I was and I knew where she was. She was hanging on to every second as I was sitting comfortably in my bedroom. I cared from the bottom of my heart. Tonight the same thing is true for all of us. Our lives are not at stake and our hearts aren't beating with fear. Jill has thought of things we haven't even come close to in our lives. Let's keep that in mind. Everyone here has something important to say. I'm not asking you believe as I believe. I KNOW you desire Jills release. I KNOW your heart goes out to her reguardless of your view. This isn't religion speaking. This is human dignity. We know what we would care about if we were in her shoes: The right to live. I know the situation isn't hopeless. To some of you that is a crazy thing to say, and it is. But I believe it. There are things we can't explain that live in the realm of possibility. Life teaches us that. This I leave in closing: "keep her in mind"

Posted by: Michael at January 31, 2006 03:40 AM (sK19L)

78 I saw Jill's tears in the last video recorded by terrorists: it is a shame their behaviour! I know nothing about Jill, besides I'm an Italian citizen not an American one, but when I saw the video, my first feeling was rage. How is it possible so much hate to a person? Terrorists are men like the others: we have the same heart, but they comletely forgot it and could be ready to die for their idea. The only thing I can do now is praying for her and maybe, when she is freed, she will read this message. God bless you, dear Jill

Posted by: Dario at January 31, 2006 06:25 AM (kRZUP)

79 I read only now the Alison's message.. I remember you that God created everything for life not for death. Infact, also who lives for death(like the terrorists) wants to say something positive, because Man wants to be happy! So, terrorists surely want to be happy but think that their happyness consists in imposing their idea. And this is an error! Always men thought that the only way to save the humanity consists in killing a part of men. This is false, infact we have a lot of examples: the French revolution, the Russian revolution, Auschwitz: they are illusions! No, the world is always the same, and the evil is the same. The evil in the world didn't die, and all of us can do it: How many times I love a person but sometimes I don't treat her well, although I love her. There is only a hope for our world: that God comes in the Earth to help us. There is only a fact in the humanity in which God didn't kill a part of men to save the world, on the contrary died for evey man, and then raised again to show us that He is stronger than death. This is not an idea, but is a fact. You can believe in it or not, but it is a fact! Bye and sorry for my English

Posted by: Dario at January 31, 2006 07:01 AM (kRZUP)

80 I just reread what Alison posted on here. First I decided that I had forgotten what she had typed... then, before I began to read it all again, I realized that I should keep an open mind and really try hard to understand what she was saying since her English isn't so good. I decided it was only "fair" and that it couldn't do any harm to just simply keep my own mind open. That's what I always hope for people who are listening to me or reading me to do for me as well... so it was only fair. Now it seems to me that, because of the broken English, Alison's meaning behind her words can easily be misunderstood. Compounding that problem is the fact that she comes across as "accusing" by using the word "you" a lot. What Alison may not understand is that most people don't like to be accused of anything and once they have been, they immediately put themselves on the defense. That's just human nature. So it's not a good thing to help people be defensive by accusing them of anything when what you really want to do is help people understand what you understand - especially if what you are saying truly is good. Ok... so I got past the broken English and then I got past the accusations and I read in-between all those things. And now what it's sounding like she is saying is that she sees there are bad people of every nationality and creed etc... just as there are good people of every nationality and creed etc... and that she is standing up for all of the GOOD Muslims, not the bad ones. She agrees that people who do bad things are not worthy of God's Love and protection. And this all seems to be the same things everyone else on here is saying, just in broken English and with accusations that put people on the defense. She's also talking about the wrath of God - which most people believe in as well - and that it will effect ALL "bad" people, bad Muslims as well as bad Christians etc... and that the bad people won't be able to escape it. However, the good people will be protected because God "knows his own" kinda thing... and she's not just talking about good Muslims either, she is also saying that ALL good people of all nations and creeds etc... will be protected. She refers to this sort of thing as the "truth" that she knows and she's warning everyone - much the same way the Bible does. She's also appealing to Christians to understand that the Quran talks about Jesus and that Muhammad (the writer of the Quran) teaches that anyone who doesn't believe the things Jesus taught is not a true and good Muslim. She agrees and is empathizing with Christians to try and show that she is not attacking them, rather she believes Jesus' teachings. Although, she disagrees with the thought that Jesus was/is "God". Which is the same thing a lot of "spiritual" American's understand as well. As I do myself. She's also trying to explain something she claims to understand about "Bush and Bin". She's trying to warn EVERYONE that Bush and Bin are both being misled and therefore they are misleading everyone else. She doesn't agree with EITHER ONE of them! And she reiterates that she is all for only what is good - as God wants her to be and she appeals to everyone to be the same way else they "reap what they sow" kinda thing. Basically, she's saying everything we are all saying. Only we couldn't get past the broken English and the number of times she used the word "you" and "evil" and "satan" and "Allah" etc... it's a problem with semantics... not what she's actually saying. It's no wonder a person gets frustrated enough to turn hateful over simple misunderstandings of semantics. This proves the same thing I said before though: we have to stop using words from the Bible or the Quran to try and communicate with! We HAVE to bring it down into simple terms that we ALL understand - like "good", "bad" and "indifferent" etc... so people will stop being defensive and so it doesn't look like we are pointing fingers thus putting people on the defense. Alison, are you reading me??? I hear what you are saying! And I see how badly you want to help and get your understanding across to people... but if you truly want to help, then you have to be careful that you are not appearing to put blame on people - because then they won't listen to what you are trying to say - they will close their minds to you instead of opening them to you (that's just human nature) - and then it won't be only their fault that they are not understanding you, it will be your fault too because you "blamed" them instead of "Loved" them. "Communicating" isn't just all about whether or not other people HEAR you - you also have to take responsibility for HOW you are saying what you want to say. And, if you truly want to be a good Muslim and believe as the Quran teaches - then yes, you have to also believe what Jesus taught - and one of the MAIN things Jesus taught was to LOVE EVERYONE - even those that PERSECUTE you!!!! When Jesus was killed/persecuted, he CONTINUED to LOVE even the men that HATED him and sentenced him to death. He did everything he could to UNDERSTAND them and their point of view even though they didn’t understand him. He never had anything bad to say about them and he NEVER ONCE said anything bad to their face either! He TRULY LOVED them all the way down deep in his HEART! He even secretly prayed to God and said, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do". He didn't say it TO them - he said it to GOD only. He said it in his HEART. And in case you don't understand what that means, I'll tell you how I understand it and maybe that will help you draw your own conclusion: I think it means he truly wished them no harm... not from him or from God, especially since he knew that they just didn't understand and therefore didn't really deserve for bad things to happen to them for what they were doing. He wished them only good. Alison, Muhammad teaches this very same thing. Say what you have to say with nothing but LOVE in your heart, as Jesus did, and people will begin to understand what you are saying. And they should, because it seems to me you are saying good things - just maybe in a not so good way. Alison, think about what you said, "Americans must reestablish a new government and Islam must establish a new Jihad with principles by the Quran only." You're leaving out something from the Muslim religion! Don't forget that Muhammad also teaches Muslims to be like Jesus! How can Muslims be like Jesus unless they study what Jesus taught as well as study the Quran? According to Muhammad (since he teaches to also follow Jesus' teachings), the Jihad should be based on BOTH the Quran AND Jesus' teachings! Jesus' MAIN message is to LOVE EVERYONE! Although he taught so much more. I hope I haven't come across as a bad person. I'm trying really hard here to be careful to not point fingers at anyone yet to say plainly what I understand so hopefully it all makes sense to everyone. Alison, I’m really trying hard to do my part by studying the Bible AND the Quran and to understand ALL people’s points of view. I just want to ask, do you think the “good Muslims” that you speak of are doing the same thing? Are they also trying to be like Jesus as well as Muhammad? Because I think that’s what we have to do in order to make a difference, don’t you?

Posted by: Truth at January 31, 2006 01:12 PM (nsEn7)

81 Michael... Your words could have very well been my own. You put it so perfectly! I can't stop thinking about her either - and I won't, as long as I know in my heart that it is doing some good. And it is... I'm sure! We are her. We are all one.

Posted by: Truth at January 31, 2006 05:46 PM (d4HNT)

82 Truth, She is not alone. You know as I do.

Posted by: Michael at February 01, 2006 12:42 AM (sK19L)

83 I thought this was about Jill but just like everything else, the religious zealots have to shove their agendas/ideologies down our throats every chance they get. When is everyone going to wake up and smell the coffee there is no GOD !!! nor has there ever been We are all ALONE!!! Now and Forever so deal with it. Why is that so hard to accept? Maybe if people focused more on how to deal with this life and not some so called promised after-life we wouldnÂ’t be in this situation. Religion makes me sick. The answer our current problems is the annihilation of the entire human race. This planet needs a hard reset. Can you say Ice Age! F you all!

Posted by: DOG at February 01, 2006 04:16 PM (bG/YT)

84 This goes out to Dog, My name is Michael. Your previous comment suggests you believe in no God. I respect your believe. Your words do more "shoving" than anything posted. Just as you "believe" there is no God, others believe in the possibility of God. Don't mistake "honest belief" for "zealot belief". I do more thinking of today than tomorrow. I do more thinking of Jill than the afterlife. Your words were ironic to hear, because "dealing with this life" and dealing with today is the only way we can ever grow. That's the only way I've come to believe principles my "open" mind has weighed for itself. I know the people you speak of. Don't mistake one for another. By shoving upon others what you "BELIEVE"(there is no God, ect.), you become the very thing you claim to detest. Religion does not make you sick. The way people think is what makes you sick. Many are not open minded. I can stand with you on this matter. Lack of curiosity creates a state of mind that blocks out growth. I like to say "now is forever". And this about Jill, here and now. The best way I've come to deal with what frustrates you is by holding to the confidence in my own heart. And I AM confident that there is HOPE for Jill. I AM confident that those who hold her in their thoughts make a difference. I DO believe in possibilities beyond our comprehension, standing confidently in the light that you don't. It's easy to accept hopelessness. It requires no strength. It's easy to say everything is meaningless. It requires no thought. Religion has nothing to do with this situation. It never did and never has with anything else in history. Only thoughts and intentions. Religion defines nothing. It is only a word used in conjunction with someone's mentality. "People" make or break this world. And everybody has thier own thoughts and beliefs in life, reguardless of what "religion" they claim to be. Let's focus our "thoughts and intentions" on Jill Carroll.

Posted by: Michael at February 02, 2006 04:09 AM (sK19L)

85 Well said Michael!

Posted by: Truth at February 03, 2006 04:13 PM (nsEn7)

86 I have prayed often for Jill during this trial but more importantly, I have prayed for her capitors. I believe she is still alive because God has heard my prayers along with millions of others of us. The men who are holding Jill have hearts and minds like all the rest of us...God will somehow, someway, impress on one of the captors that what they are doing is wrong - no matter what religious belief he shares. Every day until Jill is released, I will continue to pray for the men who hold her captive...

Posted by: StarLitSky at February 03, 2006 04:41 PM (An+H1)

87 I love the strengh that good people can bring out. This is the kind of strengh that makes a difference.

Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:34 AM (17R3T)

88 STRENGTH! My mistake.

Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:35 AM (17R3T)

89 What I meant was "STRENTH". My mistake, though you probably knew what I meant. Meaning is the main thing.

Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:48 AM (17R3T)

90 O.K., for the last time S T R E N G T H .

Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:53 AM (17R3T)

91 For anyone who has said something reasonable here, thank you. For anyone who hasn't turned this board into something other than what it should be, thank you. Jill is a friend of a friend.

Posted by: izzy at February 06, 2006 03:53 PM (Rq4Bo)

92 lol Michael

Posted by: Truth at February 07, 2006 04:07 PM (nsEn7)

93 hmm...

Posted by: Clyde at February 07, 2006 08:40 PM (gWDLm)

94 Truth, yes I read and I thank you for your understanding in all matters all thanks to Allah. I feel the way I write if I do not get too proper all can understand me as you ere able to the ones that will understand me are the ones that want to understand even if I spoke a different language then anyone if any one really wants to understand in for the good Allah is all know er Allah is all wise he will make it so all can understand. But anything that is good in this world is hard work bad is easy. It is all up to us as individuals as to what we want and what we do about it.

Posted by: Alison Shunstrom at February 07, 2006 09:53 PM (Ffvoi)

95 But I can tell all people in the world this that the ultimate reason for most negative and fighting among each other then the evil that conflicts it is us as brother and sister in a home one trying to get our parents attention always trying to be better then the other so we get noticed no matter what way we do it is always for recognition and mentally this is what is happening between each of us fighting as brothers and sisters trying to win Allah's Love trying to get his attention this is what it all comes down to atleast for the good ones this is what it comes down to. But if we think about this and picture it and care enough to understand it you will see that this is the truth. What Allah our one GOD wants as our parents want is for each of us to get along to make Allah proud of us as brothers and sisters and some times we are being selfish and UN appreciative that we do not even think of why we do what we do and most to even think about why they would simple feel to bad and hurt for the way they have acted that it would hurt them too much to consider to change and admit and accept the truth so they go and ignore to try to hide their true feelings and the truth.

Posted by: Alison Shunstrom at February 07, 2006 10:06 PM (Ffvoi)

96 So what do you think Clyde?

Posted by: Michael at February 08, 2006 01:36 AM (17R3T)

97 I think I'm about ready to go to sleep...

Posted by: Clyde at February 08, 2006 09:29 PM (gWDLm)

98 I've been thinking a lot about that "Dog" person's comment on here. Funny how he/she used the word "God" backwards as a name for posting on here! I just simply can't see any logic in his/her comments. I always pride myself on being able to put myself in another person's shoes and see how they see things - and I guess I can understand how he/she is frustrated... but still, ALL of these issues - ESPECIALLY "religion" are important when talking about Jill. Jill has respected the Muslim religion. She appears to me to be a very open minded person, which, that in itself, warrants respect for her choices. Since Jill has been open minded enough to show respect for the Muslim religion, then that should warrant our respect for it as well... or at LEAST an open minded approach to even the possibility that there must be some importance and relevance in it! So I just have to rule out "Dog"s comments as being just plain ignorance and/or fear from ignorance. Religion IS what even Jill's situation is ALL about. To NOT discuss it while discussing Jill would be "wrong"! When we can break down the barriers that "religions" have placed between us, then there won't even be any situations like what the world has been dealing with since 9/11. The Islamic culture feels misunderstood... and they ARE!! Thus they are lashing out. And at the same time we are misunderstood TOO! So we are lashing out as well. "Religion" plays a HUGH role. It HAS to be discussed, EVERYWHERE, in order to dispel fears and misunderstandings! Maybe I can help in even a small way... is there anyone here reading this that doesn't know much about the Muslim religion and who maybe has some fear about it or just some questions that maybe I can help explain? I'm not a Muslim, but I have studied the Quran... maybe I can help by explaining in UNbroken English, in terms American's are used to hearing.

Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 04:25 PM (nsEn7)

99 Alison: You're right about people understanding you if they want to understand you. But you still have to take responsibility for EXPRESSING GOD/Allah. It's not enough to just KNOW God/Allah - we also have to EXPRESS God/Allah. If we're not expressing God/Allah, then God/Allah isn't truly WITH us! It isn't enough to just KNOW what's in the Quran or Bible... we also have to LIVE it. Just telling other people HOW to be or even going through rituals that SHOW we know about God/Allah (like kneeling down and praying) isn't enough - we must also BE it all the way down deep in our hearts and souls!! If not, then we are doing the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to not only make clean the outside of our bodies, but also the INSIDE as well. That means our hearts. We have to BE what we want the rest of the world to BE. Does that make sense? We can't just say whatever we feel like saying and then leave it up to some magical "being" outside of our self to make it all come out right. We have to take RESPONSIBILITY for expressing God/Allah correctly. And that means doing it with nothing but Love and respect for not only ourselves but for EVERYONE around us. Do you like trying to guess at what people are saying? I'll bet not. So then you shouldn't expect other people to guess at what you are saying either. And you can't just say "Oh well, Allah must not want them to understand." That's not fair to Allah. Allah gave us the intelligence and the patience to choose our words wisely - if we don't, then we are being lazy. It's like you said, "... anything that is good in this world is hard work, bad is easy." We can't take the "easy" way out. We have to do the "hard" work and WORK at expressing ourselves in ways that others can understand. I'll leave you with your own thought, "It's all up to us as individuals as to what we want and what we do about it." What do you really want?

Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 04:50 PM (nsEn7)

100 Alison: I like the things you said in your last comment. It seemed clear to understand. I agree with what you are saying too. But there is something I understand differently... I think people are wrong for trying to please God as if God were something outside of us. Do you know what I mean? God isn't outside of us. There isn't anything to "please" on the outside of us, other than other people. This is where I think so many religions have it "wrong". They paint a picture of there being some person type of God who is separate from us that can point a finger and make some sort of magic happen. I don't agree with that. I see it as a very wrong concept. I see God as being a PART of us - not separate from us. We choose to express God or we choose not to express God. Period. No magic. We're in control of it. God is something to be expressed - not seen as if God were a separate being apart from us. This is why "no one has ever SEEN God". The closest anyone can come to "seeing" God as a separate being from us is to "see" God in a flower, a bird or in the eyes of a child kind of thing. It's LOVE, beauty, care, principle, harmony etc... There are 7 synonyms used in the Bible to describe God, and they are: Life, Love, Truth, Mind, Soul, Principle, Spirit... none of which are TANGIBLE "things" or "beings". God is not material. So to even try to "win God's attention" as if God were separate from us is silly. We're not in "competition" with each other - we ARE each other! But I think you're right - what you said IS what people are thinking - but I know all the way down in my heart that they are wrong and that's why all of their efforts to "win God's attention" don't work It just ends in disaster. So we have to help in anyway we can to help people understand that trying to "win God's attention" isn't even going to work in the first place. We have to express God in order to know God.

Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 05:09 PM (nsEn7)

101 I think Jill was expressing God with her work in Iraq. That's the hope that I hang onto that she will be fine.

Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 05:11 PM (nsEn7)

102 Are you going to let him get away with that gramma?

Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 06:05 PM (d4HNT)

103 No! Right turn Clyde!

Posted by: Gramma at February 09, 2006 06:08 PM (d4HNT)

104 No! Right turn, Clyde!

Posted by: Gramma at February 09, 2006 06:08 PM (d4HNT)

105 What In The Blue Hell Was That???

Posted by: Clyde at February 10, 2006 03:06 AM (gWDLm)

106 lol

Posted by: Truth at February 10, 2006 12:03 PM (nsEn7)

107 Anybody got $10 bucks I could borrow?

Posted by: Clyde at February 18, 2006 07:35 PM (y2xyn)

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An American oil worker taken hostage by Nigerian terrorists claiming to be part of the Movement for Emancipation of Niger Delta has been identified as Patrick Landry. Three others were taken hostage. They are: Briton Nigel Watson-Clark, Honduran Harry Ebanks, and Bulgarian Milko Nichev.

As I speculated earlier, the terror organization is part of a larger Ijaw rebellion. Although Nigeria is dominated by Muslims, the ethnic Ijaw minority are mainly Christian and have been complaining for decades about corruption, mismanagement, and mistreatment by the central government. Whatever the misdeeds of the Nigerian government, taking hostages is NEVER a legitimate avenue of political protest.

Melbourne Herald Sun:

SEPARATIST rebels in Nigeria are close to achieving their aim of paralysing oil production in the Niger delta, after a series of attacks and kidnappings.

Yesterday four foreign oil workers kidnapped by militants spoke to the media by phone on their sixth day in captivity.

They read their captors' demands, including a 48-hour deadline, and warned the military against attempting rescue.

The kidnappers have staged a series of attacks on oil pipelines, platforms and workers over the past three weeks, denting supply from the world's eighth largest exporter and driving up world prices...

"I'd like to contact my family and let them know that I am all right and everything with us is good," said a man who identified himself as Harry Ebanks from Honduras. "The only thing (is) the environment is not good with us because there is a lot of mosquitoes and it is dangerous for us."

The Briton, who identified himself as Nigel Watson-Clark, read a list of five demands by the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta.

"The Nigerian Government should not make any military intervention," he said. "They should not make any attempt to rescue us as it has been made clear that it may result in the loss of our lives."

A man identifying himself as Patrick Landry, a US citizen, said: "This climate in the conditions we're in is not conducive to us, especially as I am an older man and my health is not good.

"I'd like y'all to contact my family and let them know that I'm all right, these people are treating me good, but the climate is not what it should be." ...

The group demands local control of the delta's oil, payment of $1.5 billion by Royal Dutch Shell to the Bayelsa state government to compensate for pollution, and the release of three men including two ethnic Ijaw leaders.

"If the Nigerian Government does not meet these demands in 48 hours, whatever happens is in their own doing," the British hostage said.

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(Lagos, Nigeria) At present, the news reporting on the attack and kidnappings in the Nigerian offshore oil field in the Gulf of Guinea continues to be spotty. It's known that about 40 armed men boarded an oil industry service vessel named Liberty Service and took four foreign workers as hostages. The Nigerian Navy was able to track and locate the kidnappers and hostages on another boat. Contact was made and the four foreigners were reported to be safe.

The names of two of the kidnapped workers have been confirmed: Bulgarian Milko Nichev and Brit Nigel Watson-Clark. A third name was mentioned, Brit Pat Crawlay, but there's been no confirmation. An American was kidnapped according to several reports, however, he has not been identified.

A previously-unknown group called the Movement for the Emancipation of Niger Delta (MEND) has claimed responsibility for the kidnappings and has demanded the release of two political leaders from jail. They are former Nigerian state governor Alamieyeseigha, jailed in the capitol of Abuja after being arrested in London for money laundering, and Niger Delta guerrilla chief, Alhaji Asari Dokubo.

The leader of the group of kidnappers has been identified as Brutus Etikpaden, who indicated that his group would fight any rescue attempt and the hostages would die in the crossfire. Notably, but unconfirmed, among the abducted foreign workers is a Honduran or a Hungarian.

In closely-related news, a pipeline explosion killed several people and caused a reduction of Nigerian oil production.

More details are here and here.

Companion post at Interested-Participant.

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The family of an American hostage now believes that the video released by The Islamic Army in Iraq showing the murder of a hostage was Ronald Schulz. The family has scheduled a memorial service for Ronald Schulz. Mr. Schulz was in Iraq as a private civilian contractor helping rebuild the war torn country when he was abducted by the murderous al Qaeda linked terror organization. For more background, visit The Jawa Report's Ronald Schulz archive.

Norman Kember of England, American Thomas Fox, and Canadians James Loney and Harmeet Singh Sooden were taken hostage by an unknown group calling themselves 'The Swords of Righteousness Brigade'. As first revealed at The Jawa Report, 'The Swords of Righteousness Brigade' has been linked to the Islamic Army in Iraq. The Islamic Army in Iraq is an al Qaeda linked Salaafist jihadi group that has murdered foreign hostages in the past.

A French hostage, Bernard Planche, was released over the weekend, and we now know he was freed only after a joint U.S.-Iraqi security sweep caused his captors to flee. The best hope for the peace activists is that Coalition troops rescue them, despite the objections of the Christian Peacemakers Team's moral equivications.

We pray that the family of Ronald Schulz will find comfort and for the safe return of all hostages currently in Iraq. more...

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Wait, you mean a mosque might be connected to the abduction by al Qaeda of American journalist Jill Carroll? We at The Jawa Report are shocked, SHOCKED, SHOCKED! And how do certain segments of the Sunni population react? Why, they are indignent that the insurgent supporting Association of Muslim Scholars would be implicated or that any infidel Shia, Christian, or Jew would dare enter a mosque (which we all know are never used to hide insurgents or weapons).

Christian Science Monitor:

Several hundred Sunni Arabs protested Tuesday the raid on a Baghdad mosque Saturday by US and Iraqi soldiers looking for Jill Carroll, a kidnapped freelance journalist on assignment for The Christian Science Monitor....

The US military told AFP that the raid was linked to the hunt for Carroll. Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a US military spokesman, said the raid was ordered "as a direct result of a tip by an Iraqi civilian that activities related to the kidnapping were being carried out inside the mosque." ...

"Both Iraqi and coalition forces raided the mosque in the early morning hours in order to minimize the impact on worshipers and the surrounding neighborhood," Johnson told AFP Tuesday.

Six people were detained for questioning, he added.

The Association of Muslim Scholars, which is based at the mosque, confirmed that one of its members, Yunis Aikali, and five mosque guards were arrested in the raid.

UPDATE: Just as I was posting this Traderrob saw the same story and posted on it here along with satellite images of the mosque and neighborhood in question.

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U.S. forces raided Baghdad's Umm al-Qura mosque Sunday after receiving a tip that activities related to Jill Carroll's kidnapping were going on inside:

ABC Online—Sunni Arabs in Iraq have branded a US raid on a mosque complex a "sinful assault" and say it will worsen their relations with the US military.

The United Nations (UN) has also criticised Sunday's military operation.

Sunni Arab political parties say the raid on the Baghdad offices of the influential Muslim Clerics Association targeted the clergy and violated a place of worship.

Witnesses say US soldiers slid down ropes from helicopters as troops on the ground burst into the mosque complex, blowing doors off hinges and ransacking offices.

It came two days before the major religious holiday of Eid al-Adha.

A UN statement from the office of special envoy Ashraf Qazi says he "noted with regret the incident at the Umm al-Qora mosque" and that it "underlined the importance of all parties respecting the sanctity of holy sites and places of worship".

A UN spokeswoman, amplifying the statement, says Mr Qazi was referring specifically to the US and Iraqi military operation. ...

The United Nations criticized the raid. I say leave no stone unturned ...

Resources:

These images show that the Umm al-Qura mosque is very near the Al-Adel district where Jill Carroll was kidnapped:

Satellite image: Umm al-Qura mosque
Satellite image: Umm al-Qura mosque/Al-Adel district in west Baghdad
Google maps: Al-Adel district in west Baghdad

Cross-posted at OpinionBug.com

Related at Rocket's Brain Trust

Update (1/10/2006 9:37pm):

Here is a story about SRSG Ashraf Qazi's reaction to the Umm al-Qura raid:

UN—Reacting to an incident at the Umm al-Qura mosque in Iraq, the senior United Nations envoy to the country today stressed that all parties must honour the sanctity of holy sites.

In a statement released in Baghdad, Ashraf Qazi voiced regret at the event yesterday, when some security forces entered the mosque.

Mr. Qazi called on the responsible authorities to ensure that the issue is investigated as quickly and transparently as possible.

This incident, following others in recent weeks involving places of worship, should serve as a reminder of the need to eschew violence and build mutual trust and confidence, Mr. Qazi said, calling on all concerned to support a fully inclusive political process that would increase stability and a peaceful future for the people of Iraq. ...

Before I blow a gasket I want to respond to Mr. Qazi's outrageous remarks.

Mr. Qazi, a "holy" site becomes unholy when it allows terrorists to defile it.

Mr. Qazi, the raid on the Umm al-Qura mosque was the direct result of intelligence that indicated activities related to Jill Carroll's kidnapping were going on inside.

Mr. Qazi, a young woman was kidnapped and her companion murdered in cold-blood and you express regret and call for an investigation into a raid whose sole purpose was to possibly rescue her? How dare you Sir!

And Mr. Qazi, you say the raid on Umm al-Qura should be a reminder of the need to eschew violence and build mutual trust and confidence? Eschew violence? How dare you Sir! What about the senseless violence directed at Jill Carroll? What about the blood of Alan John Ghazi spilled on an al-Adel street!

With all due respect Sir, your remarks are about as asinine as any I've ever read. And by them, you make yourself a part of the problem rather than a part of its solution.

"Leave no stone unturned."

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