July 06, 2005
Mr. Durbin replies to Howie
Michelle Malkin is at it again with several good topics including my very own Senator DICK Durbin. Gee typing Dick instead of DICK didnÂ’t last long. Michelle has a good story on how left wing hackers used fraud, theft and hacking to attack
Protest Warrior as well. And she has added even more this afternoon. Wow. Also itÂ’s quite a coincidence that just yesterday Mr. Durbin replied to my email.
The full text of Senator DurbinÂ’s reply is below my comments. I should have saved my initial email too.
Stop the Bush Bashing. Your efforts to help are a welcome contribution but the continuous Bush bashing works directly against the soldiers you speak so highly of. The war is going on right now and to continue to harp over the conditions in which it was started is counter productive. To support the troops you must also support the Commander in Chief. Work hard for the troops because the war over hearts and minds on the home front is just as important as the war on the ground. They need to know they have our support. The terrorists/baathists think “we the people” will give in. You assist them in that task by dragging up the same old talking points that have been going around and hurting home front morale for months now.
Well now that IÂ’ve done my ranting I would like to thank Mr. Durbin for his reply. IÂ’m nothing if not polite and I appreciate the reply even if I donÂ’t agree with most of it. Still no vote for you from me Mr. Durbin. But youÂ’re getting warmer on a couple points. Cooperation instead of confrontation might do it sir. At least he said he would keep my/our concerns in mind.
Click to read Senator Durbin's reply. My question was simply what was his take on Iraq and what should be do about it.
more...
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stood aside as if an alley crakhead....
BOOM!
Posted by: TC-LeatherPenguin at July 06, 2005 05:55 PM (kiH79)
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Allow me to do this Improbulus Maximus style:
"I also worked successfully to increase the level of combat pay..."
If this is truly the case, then I applaud his efforts.
"...-- that its possession of weapons of mass destruction and its close ties to global terrorist groups represented an imminent threat to the United States -– were gross exaggerations."
I think he's woefully wrong on this point.
And I also think he's right that we underestimated the reconstruction effort and the terrorist response. But, we've never had a model to work from.
"...but I cannot accept the Administration's failure to establish a clear plan to end the conflict and return our troops home."
I think that was pretty clear from the start and was eloquently put in the last speech President Bush made. To paraphrase - "When they stand up [the Iraqis], we'll stand down."
"...until the
President puts forward a comprehensive plan for success..."
Well, judging from his recent outbursts, I'd say I'm glad he hasn't let him in on any plans.
"...,I introduced an amendment to the 2005 supplemental spending bill to require the Administration to provide Congress with regular, comprehensive assessments of the progress being
made..."
May I introduce Senator Durbin to a blog called chrenkoff.blogspot.com? Or is he too busy formulating form letters to those who wonder WTF he's thinking?
Howie, I'm with ya. He wouldn't get my vote either.
Posted by: Oyster at July 06, 2005 08:14 PM (YudAC)
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Great, but what the hell does ANY of what's in his form letter have to do with equating American military personnel with Nazis/Communists/Khmer Rogue, etc?
Posted by: disgruntledinca at July 06, 2005 08:34 PM (8DwXG)
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We're still waiting for your apology asshole.
Posted by: Carlos at July 06, 2005 09:31 PM (8e/V4)
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Dick Durbin is a joke. He voted against Gulf War 1, when the actions of iraq were clearly egregious. The only credit I give the guy is that he was against the war from the outset, unlike Kerry and the rest of the Liberals. Dick Durbin voted AGAINST EVERY military appropriations bill throughout his career, and NOW he is upset about unarmored humvees? CLINTON destroyed the military while our enemies plotted against us. The liberals are the most politically expedient and traitorous people around today.
I wonder how Liberals must feel on days like today, when they are crying about treatment at Gitmo instead of worrying about the threat against the civilized world. All the Liberals care about is bashing Bush and making Americans look bad at every turn. It is all a part of the mental disorder that is liberalism.
Posted by: stopthedonkey at July 07, 2005 10:45 AM (aacCD)
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Oyster, you flatter me.
STD, you nailed it. Durbin is just another spineless dhimmi traitor. In my dreams at night I see dhimmis lined up in front of a trench for their systematic complicity in crimes against humanity. No blindfolds. The people they face are the oppressed peoples of the world whose oppressors could always count on the dhimmis for support. Cubans, Nicaraguans, Afghans, Iraqis, Sudanese, Vietnamese, et al. Righteous justice. One day, one day soon I pray.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at July 07, 2005 02:21 PM (0yYS2)
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Well the point was that I had emailed the guy and finally after weeks of waiting I got a reply. I said I would post it and I did. You know I spent half the night worried that it may be a spoof. But there was some info in the mail(that I left out) that got me over that hump. Well or else all those email spoofers and terrorists in my inbox are getting pretty close. this was the answer I got so that is the answer I posted.
Posted by: Howie at July 07, 2005 02:22 PM (D3+20)
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Oh yeah I also dropped a little thank you to Mr. Durbins office. Should I get back a WTF I'll let you all know. I'm sure Rusty would love to track down one who impersonates a senator. I think It'll be OK though. Just a feeling stay tuned...
Posted by: Howie at July 07, 2005 02:27 PM (D3+20)
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Also noticed my first trackbacks. Wow!!!!! exiting.
Posted by: Howie at July 07, 2005 02:29 PM (D3+20)
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June 30, 2005
Baptism by fire : part II
Well first of all I would like to thank everyone bloggers and readers who took the time to send links and ideas. For me this site is all about getting to read Rusty and also read the comments of some of the brightest people I've seen. I started as a reader and I still consider myself to be just that. While I've been posting up here really it is all of you out there that make the site fun. So before I go a big thanks to everyone who has supported me. Rusty we all hope for your swift recovery.
Now one last thing. YBP wishes to discuss the very foundations of civilization. Since he sent links today I will oblidge him. And remember everyone watch the BP. It's the discussion that makes it cool. Let's not give ourselves a stroke now. I've got to go and do some real work too. I've been jumping back and forth so good afternoon all and....
Have a good one.
Link to the very foundations of civilization
Hat tip :YBP
Guest Posters: A big thanks to you too and feel free to continue as this will be the end of me for today.
Also for those bloggers that I referenced today. I'm still not up to speed on pings and trackbacks so my sincere apologies if I missed anyone or failed to do it correctly.
Updated : Rusty lives. I did get an email and Rusty says he feels a little bit better. I take that as was able to pull my head out of the bucket long enough to send an email. He says he probably will not blog today. Speedy recovery my master.
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Baptism by fire
Whew where is Rusty when you need him huh?? Thanks for all the links and suggestions. I think I have enough to maybe get us through the day.
Michelle Malkin has a post on a Democratic poll showing that public support for Democrats is slipping faster than for Republicans.
Washington post story here.
Personally for me I think they pick the wrong arguments. The DSM issue for one makes me feel better. It's kind of like a space shot. You had better be thinking about it ahead of time. You can always abort at the last minute. And once the candle is lit, well there is no turning back. So the discussion of if would should have or not is dead to me. The candle is lit people.
Rusty seems to like Michelle so I think he would approve.
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sure, some people, myself included are somewhat dissapointed in some of the things that Bush has/hasnt done or said...no doubt about that, and im sure we have all different ideas on what Bush has/hasnt done or said right....but compared to the hysterical chickenlittle screaming and all the stonewalling and knitpicking coming from the likes of Dean, Dirken, Hillary and many other Dems, Bush has been doing a fair job....yes, it could be better but remember it could always get worse, and sometimes things have to get dark and nasty before it gets better....not every single tiny little thing can be planned for, its just humanly impossible..so i give Bush some kudos for the good he has accomplished...he has more to do and i think he will get more good things done before his time in the White House is done and the Democrats just cant stand the thought of that and are doing all they can to try and ruin anything Bush has planned...i wish President Bush good luck
Posted by: THANOS35 at June 30, 2005 01:27 PM (RhtGz)
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Rusten Currie for Congress!
http://currierd.typepad.com/currie_for_congress/
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 30, 2005 01:56 PM (0yYS2)
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Bush has not done well but Pelosi, Reid, durbin, Teddy,Boxer, et. al. have done horribly. So by comparison he's wining.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at June 30, 2005 02:00 PM (Z6yVb)
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The down trend in either one is cause for concern. It says a lot about how people are being turned off by the polarization caused mostly by the politicians themselves. When they do that, people feel they have to choose a side and they're getting tired of it. Most of us have at least some disagreements with the party we've chosen and don't want to have feel we must tow the party line 100%.
Posted by: Oyster at June 30, 2005 02:44 PM (fl6E1)
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June 28, 2005
Liveblogging the Fort Bragg Speech
By Demosophist
Good opening. Thanking the right people (our military services). GWOT reached our shores on 9/11. "Murder in the name of a totalitarian ideology... they have continued to kill." Yup.
"They believe we're corrupt. They are mistaken." (Well, not totally.)
"ONLY ONE COURSE OF ACTION: To defeat them abroad before they attack us at home!"
Yeah, baby!
"We are removing a source of violence and instability and establishing a foundation for peace... is the sacrifice worth it."
Well, what will you ask of us?
The bad guys in Iraq are making common cause with similar ne'er-do-wells in Libya, etc. They see the abyss.
"Among the terrorists there is no debate that Iraq is central to the War. The outcome will leave them either emboldened or defeated."
Clearer one could not be.
"They failed to stop the transfer of sovereignty."
They failed to stop the formation of OUR VANGUARD. They cannot stop the advance of freedom. "This will not happen on my watch."
"Defeat an enemy and give strength to a friend."
The VANGUARD!
Iraqi responsibility. We have made siginificant progress. THE ELECTION. They rebuild. Progress is uneven, but real.
30 nations have troops in Iraq. The UN is there. 40 countries have pledged $34 Billion for reconstruction. The Donar Countries.
Iraq is critical. Iraq is critical. Iraq is critical.
Numeber and quality of Iraqi security forces has improved. Operation Lightning. Iraqis want to be defended by their own countryment.
OUR VANGUARD. (Who are we?)
"Our strategy has both a military and a political track... As [they] stand up, we will stand down!"
Good enough. Not complicated. Nancy Pelosi take note.
"NATO is establishing a military academy near Baghdad." Yikes! THE VANGUARD!
Three new steps:
Partnering with Iraqi units.
Embedding coalition teams in Iraqi units.
Working with Iraqi ministries to manage their forces.
(See Mont Ventoux)
Deadlines serious mistake. Wrong signal to allies, our troops, and to the enemy. We need to complete the mission. More troops? If needed.
[But it's not more troops that we need.]
Emerging from tyranny into a democracy. Our VANGUARD. ("We" includes the Arab Middle East.)
Transitional National Assembly must draft a robust and fair constitution, to be ratified by the people, and will then "bind their multi-ethnic society into a democracy."
Wouldn't that be a hoot?
Libya knuckles under. Our strategy to defend ourselves and expand freedom IS WORKING. There will be tough moments that test our resolve. They don't respect sanctuary. They create chaos. They will fail to shark our will. (Probably, most of us.) We're in a confliect that demands much of us. Demands the perseverence of our citizens.
"The rise of democracy will be the ultimate ... victory. We will stay in the fight until... the fight is won."
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
Our troops can know our people are behind them. At every outpost across the world. FLY THE FLAG.
[OK, he's finially asking something of us. Propagate it. Ring the bell. Let's get it done.]
Loss. "The best way to honor the lives that have been given in the struggle is to complete the mission." Service.
"They" are no match for the United States of America.
Well, keep banging the drum. Good start. Finally asked us for something!
(Cross-posted by Demosophist to Demosophia and Anticipatory Retaliation)
Posted by: Demosophist at
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The money quote, I thought, was... "As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down."
Posted by: Romeo at June 28, 2005 07:58 PM (AHaCg)
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Great speech, perfectly delivered, crystal clear message. A President's got to do what a President's got to do -- defend America.
The leftist-MSM can go play with their moonbats.
Posted by: bill at June 28, 2005 08:03 PM (7evkT)
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BUSH LIES has been humiliated and cut out like a parasitic leech from Jawa. However, the BUSH said a bunch of malarkey in his speech. What a timid young man, trying to look tough up there.
Romeo, those Iraqi troops that America is training over there are infested by insurgents so bad, they can't be relied on. Some recently-trained security forces were heard singing an ode to SADDAM!
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at June 29, 2005 06:29 AM (ScqM8)
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Some of ours were not that great also ... remember one tossing a grenade in his fellow soldiers tent?
You're going to get a few bad apples, the trick is to learn to recognize them and weed them out.
Where you work in one way or another you produce a product. In that production you will create waste (defected product) of a certain expected percentage.
The same applys in recruiting Iraqi security forces, there will be a certain percentage of rejects. Just as here in the US a certain expected percentage of recruits "wash out" during their basic training.
Just weed out the bad ... they have no effect on the good soldiers ability to kick @$$ !
Posted by: Jonathan at June 29, 2005 07:17 AM (6krEN)
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But I'm confused.. how does Bush know that any America-bound terrorists are going to Iraq enroute to America? Not all planes go through Bagdad y'know. Maybe the terrorists are distracting us over there so they can blow up our refineries here?
Posted by: Downing Street Memo at June 30, 2005 08:38 AM (ScqM8)
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DSM:
how does Bush know that any America-bound terrorists are going to Iraq enroute to America? ....Maybe the terrorists are distracting us over there so they can blow up our refineries here?
Because we chose the conditions, not they. To believe otherwise you'd have to consider the choice we made, by as close to a 49-51 percent margin as you can get, a virtual certainty. You'd have to attribute to a bunch of cultists who'd have trouble doing their own laundry (and who apparently attempted to influence a US election in the other direction) a level of foresight that's nearly omniscient.
It's vastly more probable that we've simply manipulated them either into making a strategic mistake, or into acting in a way that gives them an inadvertent windfall. And either way they're not nearly as formidable as you make them out to be. In other words you could say that we might have outsmarted ourselves, but there's no case for the conclusion that they've outsmarted us.
Posted by: Demosophist at July 05, 2005 10:09 PM (820MO)
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June 27, 2005
Interview With Ed Klein
Rusty dropped me an email this am and asked if see dubya or I could get this up this am. I will past in a few parts of Rustys email as well as the kinks he sent.
From: John Hawkins
This is John Hawkins from Right Wing News & Conservative Grapevine and
I've done an interview with Ed Klein, author of "The Truth About Hillary:
What She Knew, When She Knew It, and How Far She'll Go to Become President".
This is a blockbuster interview that covers: Bill Clinton's affairs,
whether Hillary had an affair, Hillary's role in the Clinton White House, her
"anti-military" views, and Ed Klein's reaction to the less than
enthusiastic conservative support for his book among other things. We also had some controversial "off the record" comments that were put back on the
record. What was said there alone is worth the read.
Here are some short excerpts from the interview to give you an idea of
what it was like:
** Ed Klein On Hillary's threats against the network to get his book
blackballed **
"For instance, because of my book, Hillary and her war machine have
called every major television network in the United States and suggested to
them that if they have Ed Klein on to discuss his book, they can forget
about Hillary being a guest on their network.
As a result, the entire mainstream media – NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN and
MSNBC – have blanked me out. This is my 5th best seller in a row.
I’ve been on all of those networks for all my books up ‘til this
one book. IÂ’ve been a constant guest on the Today show, the Good
Morning America show, you know, the Chris Matthews show, etc. Suddenly
IÂ’m anathema and the reason I am is because the Clintons, Hillary in
particular, have threatened all these mainstream media outlets."
** Tell us what you really think about Hillary, Ed **
"All IÂ’ve done is find a lot of new things and important things to
reinforce what everybody really knows about her, which is that she is a
congenital liar, as Bill Safire has called her –- and an ultra-liberal
and a militant feminist."
** Ed Klein on the conservative reaction to his book **
"...I just assumed that, you know, the conservatives would rally to my
support – and, as you say, I’ve had some problems in that area."
You can read the entire interview at the following address:
Full story here
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Just finished Klein's book. Couple things I didn't know. Bill is screwing around even more now, Hillary is a major Lezbo and that her staff is made up of Dykus Majoris but most of it was re-hashing stuff I have known. That Hillary has no soul, is a proven liar, criminal, cheat, backstabber and a hater of men.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at June 27, 2005 11:34 AM (yBHNA)
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This flies in the face of MSM's celebrating Kitty Kelly and her vilification of the entire Bush family. While I think that such books are simply glorified tabloids, I also think they have every right to publish them as long as they're not libelous. I also hate to see anyone from the Republican Party stoop to such levels as speculation about someone's sexual preference, but I can almost understand the entire book being published as a tit-for-tat tactic.
Hillary also has every right to be outraged, but instead goes even further in using strong arm tactics to silence dialog.
I won't read the book simply because I already have an opinion about Hillary and don't need any reinforcement. I've been watching her for far too long.
Posted by: Oyster at June 27, 2005 11:38 AM (fl6E1)
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The beauty of it all is that the MSM, still doing business as usual in their role as the propaganda arm of the dhimmicrats, believe that as long as they don't report it, it isn't news. They have apparently never heard of this little thing called "the internet". It's like watching a turtle try to catch a mongoose.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 27, 2005 12:12 PM (0yYS2)
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That book looks like a load of horse shit, just like KK's book. Filthy, why would you waste your time reading such crap?
Filthy said, "...has no soul, is a proven liar, criminal, cheat, backstabber and a hater of men." Well geesh, welcome to politics as usual! There are nasty books out there about anyone powerful...it's the American way!
IM, which "internets" do you use the most? Hehehe...
Posted by: osamabinchimpin' at June 27, 2005 02:18 PM (CYGDF)
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Fighting City Hall is hard.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at June 27, 2005 02:43 PM (Z6yVb)
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Uh, Rod?
That would be the Internets
Internet 1
and
Internet 2
Can ya count that high?
Posted by: West at June 27, 2005 04:18 PM (Xcwmf)
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Just out of curiosity I listened to Klein get interviewed by Franken, and Joe Conason. If this guy is what we base our beliefs on, we're screwed, he was caught in so many lies and mis-statements in a twenty minute interview, it made me long for the dats when a conservative was willing to tell the truth, like Goldwater used to. Of course there are those that would refer to Goldwater as a RINO in this day and age, tells me just how frigging stupid conservatives have become
Posted by: Aging Veteran at June 27, 2005 11:23 PM (aHbua)
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The book was good train reading, what can I say.
I gave it to a lib that I ride into the city with. He made me promise to watch Moores trashy film in exchange.
I knew Hillary was evil, I didn't need a book to convince me. Sometimes I, the choir, like to be preached to-
Posted by: Filthy Allah at June 28, 2005 05:43 AM (xdqZV)
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Filthy reads books with no pictures! Imagine my surprise.
He secretly fantasizes about having a three way with Scott Biao and Hillary.
Posted by: greg at June 28, 2005 09:19 AM (/+dAV)
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Filthy...even Bill O'Rilley says he won't have that author on his show. Some are also saying that if this book is an attempt to smear her out of running for 2008, it might have the opposite effect if all that crap slinging makes her look like a victim. So far I've heard conservatives and libs alike saying the book is just a personal attack and the sources, etc. don't add up.
Posted by: osamabeenhiding at June 28, 2005 11:20 AM (huFN9)
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Filthy...read this instead: http://www.nti.org/
Some pretty scary nuke shit.
Posted by: osamabeenvotin' at June 28, 2005 11:23 AM (huFN9)
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How Dare you foul the name of Baio by using it with the degenerate word Hillary!
No Habbab Kabbab for you! COme back...Ome
YEAR!
Posted by: Filthy Allah at June 28, 2005 02:20 PM (yBHNA)
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Pissant liberals read all the Venomous Anti bush books, why can't filthy read a little slander without getting the libbie pimps in a lather?
By the way swine dropping, it has 6 pages of pictures. Thank Allah they are not scratch n Sniff. I no wish to smell the hairy parts of a bull dyke.
Posted by: Filthy Allah at June 28, 2005 02:21 PM (yBHNA)
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OBC wrote:
"Some are also saying that if this book is an attempt to smear her out of running for 2008, it might have the opposite effect if all that crap slinging makes her look like a victim."
Of perhaps that's the intended result. I won't even browse it because it wouldn't have anything new or relevant for me, as I already loathe her as much as is humanly possibly without cloning myself. I doubt if there's anything untrue in the book either.
I know most conservatives are cool toward it, partially because it's a "gotcha" book, and we're really not into that. Most books conservatives buy are generally more positive in tone, as compared to the libs who loves the "gotchas", which in itself speaks volumes (no pun intended) about the different groups.
The effect it will have though is to energize her base out of sheer indignity that someone would dare smear Her Majesty like that. She is probably the most politically savvy woman of the last century, and I wouldn't put it past her to try to garner support by playing the victim. She is a slime mold passing as human.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 28, 2005 06:21 PM (0yYS2)
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IM, all I know is that I can't think of anyone in the running or rumored to be running for 2008 that impress me. I think you said something about Condi Rice, but I don't trust her either. I also have a hard time believing that Americans would vote for a black woman no matter how good a leader she is, etc. What do you think?
Posted by: osamabeenhiding at June 29, 2005 12:53 PM (huFN9)
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No surprise about the Hillary camp strongarming the MSM. Don't forget Kerry's camp threatened affiliates who contemplated showing some tv special connected with the Swiftboat Vets (can't remember the name of it now, heatwave is making my brain melt). To paraphrase, "If they show it, they'd better hope we don't win."
I haven't read the book and don't intend to. I'm objecting to the double standard at play...Kitty Kelley's book was hot s**t, the networks couldn't get her on air fast enough.
Posted by: BorgQueen at June 29, 2005 07:37 PM (AxlwF)
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June 20, 2005
Into the West
By Demosophist
I'm slowly becoming enraged as I watch Stephen Spielberg's latest epic Into the West, which purports to recount the history of a family in Virginia as they migrate westward and merge with the native Americans they encounter. It's hard for me to put my finger on what it is that bothers me about Spielberg's tale, but the essence of the problem is that it's inauthentic. And it's not one single thing that gives me that impression, but more like the fact that I grew up in a family in which the pioneering generation was only once removed from my own. Therefore, the stories really weren't that old when I heard them recounted by people who actually knew the principals. I actually knew my great grandmother, who had become the matriarch of the family by the time I was old enough to toddle around. I actually touched the bridge to that past so inauthentically recounted by Spielberg.
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Dude, you said it.
What's the deal in all the movies that the Crow are the bad guys but the Lacota are the good guys? Seriously.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at June 20, 2005 09:08 AM (JQjhA)
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I don't know why the Crow are always the bad guys. But I remember a linguistics professor at the Univ of Kansas that I met once. We were joking about letting the Sioux and the Crow man the nuclear missle silos in the northern plains, since they lived there anyway. We were just being silly. Then he said it would never work, because the first thing the Sioux would do is nuke the Crow. And this was in the 1980s.
Posted by: Scott in CA at June 20, 2005 09:54 AM (rF49i)
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It's as if the Sioux have a better propaganda machine than the Crow. In the mini-series when the protaganist Sioux find every one in the village massacred they say it was the Crow and how they regretted that the Crow were 'forcing' war between the two nations. As if the Sioux were just these innocent victims not doing the same thing to the Crow.
Same thing happens in Dances with Wolves.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at June 20, 2005 10:13 AM (JQjhA)
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The Sioux have a much better propoganda machine. In South Dakota, there is no Columbus day, instead they celebrate Native American day.
Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 10:22 AM (jPCiN)
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The Indians in general have had a better propaganda machine for the last few decades. They've always painted themselves (no pun intended) as the innocent victims and whites as always the vicious agressors. Whites were generally isolated from one another and would usually only band together to attack Indians after they had massacred some whites. The Indians didn't understand the concept of individual punishment, so if they felt aggrieved, they would attack any whites around, guilty of transgression or not. Well, if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, so whites adopted the policy of collective punishment, and seeing as how whites were much better at warfare, the Indians didn't fare well under this policy. Many wrongs were done on both sides, and many innocent people died on both sides, but it's purely liberal propaganda to depict the Indians as some sort of peaceful social-ist, (damn the spam filter),utopians. Real history disagrees.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 11:36 AM (0yYS2)
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The Crow are hated now primarily because they sided with the whites early on. As the saying goes, "the Lakota won the glory, the Cheyenne won the battles, and the Crow won the land."
They've always been an exceedingly prideful people, with a sense of destiny approaching that of religious fervor. Where those Plains tribes regarded property in terms of traditional migration routes & herds, the Crow looked upon the land as their own empire, at least potentially.
Which brings up one of the bothersome fallacies about native Americans: Its taught they didn't have a sense of personal property, especially as regards land. That wasn't precisely so. Different tribes had different regard on that subject. The Iroquois & many east coasters had well-developed ideas of boundaries & land ownership, for example. All tribes recognized certain lands as belonging to certain tribes, especially holy sites and burial grounds.
Posted by: urthshu at June 20, 2005 12:10 PM (2qJi3)
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Stephen Spielberg's movies are almost without exception long (sometimes very long) on PC fiction and short on historical fact.
Homesteading was very tough. If the Indians did not kill you the dificulty of farming in what were out of the way places likely would. I am the son of the son of a failed homesteader. I understand that "old timers" tend to exagerate (after all I'm now an oldtimer) but my granparents had some hairraising tales of their years on the homestead. I never had a problem with them giving up. I think they were lucky to have got out alive.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at June 20, 2005 01:43 PM (cTkez)
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The problem with Hollywood and any movies based off anything,
(history, novels, games)is that no Director, scriptwriter, or
producer can only read the back cover, or they have to add their own ego into the movie. My case and point, Two Towers, movie 2 of Lord of the Rings books. The book cleary states the Ents are slow, through
thinkers, and they vote yes to go to war. The movie, No we are peaceful, shit they cut down our trees, lets kill them all. Or
in the book, 1 and only 1 elf in Helm's deep. The movie, Legolas
bred like the bunny, because there was a whole mess of elves there.
Posted by: Butch at June 20, 2005 02:37 PM (Gqhi9)
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The biggest slaughter of Indians in history is when the tribes were moved to Oaklahoma, either given or stole guns and commenced killing their age old enemies. Other Indians.
Truth is Indians are wealthier and doing better now than any time in history. Think about what life must have been like before the white man's entrance to the new world. No horses for thousands of years to hunt buffalo. No metal knifes to cut them up with. No wheels, no central government to ensure justice. No domesticated animals. Might was right. The biggest and meanest tribe received the best and killed the rest. Tools were pointed sticks and rocks tied to sticks.
And worse. No firewater to forget your miserable existence.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 24, 2005 10:02 PM (CBNGy)
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I don't think anyone can portray any one family's own history into this diversified land. I believe he is trying to show what the history books often left out, even more so today with textbook publishers wanting to be politically correct and not offend children with ethnics and glossed over to make the struggles and hardship of all peoples of that time seem trivial. They skirt around war and all pictures of anything that might be offensive. They even doctor historical paintings and photos to edit out "offensive" images. I know. I have done history books for these publishers. Some are so far off the mark they get sued and have to be reprinted. They all make it sound like it was pleasant. All immigrants faced hatred from whites (chinese, Irish, etc.) and we were always portrayed as civilized and all knowing with little tolerance to other cultures including Native Americans. It is rare today for anyone to attempt to show how hard life was back then. Our history books rarely tell of native american victories and how family was as important to them as us. Lives were lost merely attemting to get out west much less for those who made it to face the hatred between whites and Indians. Remember the Donner party? Few textbooks today bother to tell that gruesome story to illustrate it wasn't a piece of cake.
All tribes in America suffered and lost much from us. We brought death by sickness such as smallpox and cholera. Pioneers are glorified in our textbooks and yet his is the first attempt to paint it as it might have been—our written words today make it sound like hop in a wagon and find land or gold. Easy as pie. Get wealthy. Live weatlhy. Die of old age. It's not how it happened. They rarely try to show the hardships or tell it like it was for fear of stepping on someone's toes or offending some race. Give it a break. Why does everyone have to read more into it than it is? It is more accurate than our current textbooks. Hollywood rarely tackles anything totally the way we think it should be done. Give credit where credit is due. They are at least attemting to show how the real west was for most—brutal, unforgiving, heartwrenching and beautiful. I like the way it encompasses many sides and circles in and out of a family who is mostly strong and good. Jethro robbed the chinese but Abe befriended them. Not likely real in history or most family's but it attempts to weave an accurate picture of life back then for everyone. It recounts more accurately how the west was than our glossed over textbooks who ignore the injustices of many immigrants and the end of the native american ways. I often wish they had won as we have devasted the earth and pushed animals to extinction. No one culture has all the right answers and no show can portray everything as each of us may percieve how it was very differently. I applaud them for their efforts as generations get more removed from the reality because of idealized (politically correct) versions of our history. Thank god they are not like Harcourt and other publishers of school books who don't dare tell it like it was for fear of offending someone. I missed the first episode but I love this series. At least someone has the balls to try—why must everyone be so cynical? I too know tribes fought each other and had many different cultures and laws across th e Americas. Noone can tell everything in such a short series. I think they make it more realistic and are trying to show it was tough for all. Our history books only show our side of it. It's long over due for all sides to be portrayed more accurately. Noone can do a perfect job but it's damn time we tried. I love it. I know it's not real but I can look past that and see someone has at least the guts to try to show us how it must have been. Roots was probably not totally accurate either but people embraced it for what it was meant to show—a part of our history that was not pretty and "sanitized" in our textbooks. Even more so today. History is history and from ancient Rome to Greece to Britain and America—other people conquer and enslaved. It seems to be mans nature. You don't see then covering up for Atilla the Hun or Ceasar so why reinvent our history and heritage? You all can be cynical—I love it. I feel for all as it was not an easy life for any of our ancestors. I'm sorry I missed the first episode and I got on here to see if I could get it without commercials. I love it. I love it.
Posted by: marcie at July 18, 2005 12:22 AM (rnjau)
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I was deeply moved, though I already knew about Wounded Knee and the schools, etc.
what happened to Native Americans at the hands of "pioneers" (thieves?) should never, never be forgotten. (i am of pioneer stock, jewish stock and little Native Amercian stock as well)
Like the Holocaust, the message about the bloody consequences of intolerance, greed and lust for power and control should be forever branded on our hearts.
Slice it anyway you want, Native Americans as a whole were robbed at gunpoint. And we were all robbed of the wisdom and spiritual power that could have benefitted all.
Posted by: sylvia at July 25, 2005 10:29 AM (iYZGz)
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Sylvia:
Slice it anyway you want, Native Americans as a whole were robbed at gunpoint. And we were all robbed of the wisdom and spiritual power that could have benefitted all.
And how do you know this? I submit that what informs you is just the most recent Hollywoodized version of this history, which is probably no more an accurate characterization of what happened than the earlier one showing native Americans as the villains. By the way, native Americans typically hold the oldest and highest priority water rights in the Western US, which were orginally based on "prior use." (Water rights in the eastern US are based on the riparian principle, which is based on property proximity rather than use.)
Posted by: Demosophist at July 25, 2005 10:51 AM (IbWE6)
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Look I am no Native American so my view is purely white. I am glad he did this series. Get over the Crow are portrayed as badguys "again" bullsheet you are only looking as far as your egotistical noses.
Nobody teaches kids in school that the propaganda of the white man and his arrogence slaughtered "savages" and STOLE this country based on lies and greed. Murdered and lied, and destroyed, and wasted things like the Indians and the Buffalo and on and on. I was blown away last night in the finale as it totally reminded me of Iraq today. Media says OOH big scary arabs, and the weak minded idiots go OOh NO ok kill them!! F@cking pathetic. I was thinking to myself,.."No wonder we just march in and waste who we want, our fathers and their fathers set the precidence."
White people suck man but hey what are you gunna do. Try to learn from it I guess.
Just an opinion-
Posted by: B at July 25, 2005 01:56 PM (LJK0r)
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I was blown away last night in the finale as it totally reminded me of Iraq today. Media says OOH big scary arabs, and the weak minded idiots go OOh NO ok kill them!!
Well gee, I guess that allays my concern that this was just more anti-American Hollywood propaganda. Isn't it funny how every time these stories are retold they seem to embody whatever proximate gripe the left seems to have at the time?
I mean, never mind that we're actually supporting the majority of Arabs and Kurds to build a decent law-abiding and free society, or that the minority we're fighting actually are a bit scary and nasty with that whole dull-knife-head-sawing thing they do. Oh, I'm sorry, were you trying to sound rational? Oops!
Posted by: Demosophist at July 25, 2005 02:11 PM (IbWE6)
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June 19, 2005
Senator McCain on MTP
I spent some time watching the interview of Senator John McCain’s on “NBC NEW’S MEET THE PRESS”. I had few thoughts afterward. About party, the war, and politics in general.
link to MTP transcript
If you are a Republican trying to “Casey Jones” the Democrats and change the rules of the Senate so that the President can get every judge he wants. If you take advantage of our majority and use it to pay back every contributor and push everything past the minority. You put yourselves before our party and before our country.
If a Democrat, filibustering every judge that comes across your desk. Spouting terms like Nazi and Gulag to try and make your point on GITMO. Playing politics with the war and failing to support the President. If you think this war is that trivial. You are putting your party before your nation.
If you are right or left wing and you bite on all the wedge issues like abortion and stem cell research or other moral distractions that never die and then vote for President based on these alone. You are putting your ideals before your duty.
If you are a moderate of either party, or an independent, or just a citizen, and you failed to vote for whom you thought might be a good candidate in a primary or general election because of party or laziness. Well just shut up about George Bush and get behind him. For if you had voted John McCain may have been President right now. The far right and left all vote, blame you.
Also for those who bother to read the transcript and I know itÂ’s hard. Just read some. The next President of the U.S.A., uh I mean Senator McCain gives a great example of the manner in which these issues should be dealt with. Some things are just above politics and I think he knows what those things are. LetÂ’s not start playing politics and forgetting there is a war on. That is exactly what the enemy is counting on. ItÂ’s not fair to the people of this country, itÂ’s not fair to the men and women serving and dying, and itÂ’s most unfair to the people of Iraq who are depending on us to stick with them.
I like quotes, so hereÂ’s what I feel is his best one of the interview.
“But you know what I've found out? That every time I've done something for what may have been influenced by political reasons, I've regretted it. Every time that I've done something that I think is right, it's turned out OK in the end. I've got to do what I think is right. And if it offends a certain political constituency, I regret it, but there's really nothing I can do about it.”
Sen. John McCain R, AZ from
“NBC NEW’S MEET THE PRESS” aired 06/19/05.
Another link to the transcript
IÂ’m so jealous of Arizona.
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Posted by: SPQR at June 19, 2005 10:22 PM (xauGB)
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McCAIN, GITMO, AND EICHMANN
McCain was on MTP today; (ASIDE: MTP is one of a several MSM shows hosted by former Democrat operatives; I can't think of ONE hosted by a former GOP operative).
As usual, McCain said some good things and some bad things.
A good thing he said: the prisoners on Gitmo are NOT being mistreated and Durbin MUST apologize.
A bad thing he said: that (paraphrasing) "all the prisoners on Gitmo should have their cases adjudicated - that even Adolph Eichmann had a trial."
Well, Senator: Eichmann's trial - and the trial of ALL the other NAZIS came AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER.
SO MAY IT BE FOR THE DETAINEES AT GITMO: they can be legally held until after the war is over, and they SHOULD BE, TOO!
Until the enemy has capitulated and ceased all hostilities the detainees are potentially future adversaries THE MOMENT they are released.
As for "adjudication": they are enemy combatants, not defendants; the GWOT is a REAL WAR which will last a generation OR MORE; the war must be won by KILLING AND OTHERWISE DESTROYING THE ENEMY AND THEIR WILL TO FIGHT, and it will not be won by sending in the FBI and arresting a few terrorists and having a few trials. CLINTON DID THAT AND IT FAILED!
McCain was most annoying when - like all politically motivated "moderates" - he tried to have his cake and eat it too. ALSO EDIFYING: how many bills he sponsors with Democrat Liberals like Kennedy and Kerry. To some, this may seem bi-partisan; to other more perceptive folks, it's obviously opportunistic. Unfortunately, the bills are ALL BAD: an immigration amnesty bill; a so-called "greenhouse-gas" bill; and a C.A.F.E. standards bill. They're all bi-partisan and they're ALL BAD.
BOTTOM-LINE: McCain is a LIBERAL HAWK. Which is better than a LIBERAL DOVE, but not as good as a conservative hawk.
JAY NORDLINGER heard McCain use this Eichmann analogy in February at DAVOS; here's what Nordlinger reported at NRO:
McCain is a "try 'em or release 'em" man. How you try terrorists nabbed on the Afghan battlefield, he does not venture to say. He does say, "Even Eichmann got a trial," which is one of the cheapest things I have ever heard out of a politician's mouth.
I agree: cheap and WRONG and IMMORAL and.... well you get the idea!
Posted by: reliapundit at June 19, 2005 11:30 PM (fiiCB)
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I think McCain should be run out of the Senate. I will not forgive him for that horrible "campaign finance" law. He will not be president.
Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 08:34 AM (jPCiN)
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Here's the proper link, your link was bad:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8245636/
As a pro-war (Afghanistan AND Iraq) Democrat, I registered Republican so my vote would count in the California primary for Senator McCain in 2000, and I would look forward to electing him President in 2008.
Of course, arch-conservatives will point to my post as a reason to vote against him. Oh well, I think a political leader who attracts moderates of both parties and isolates the extreme crazies of both right and left is a very good leader indeed.
Posted by: Eric at June 20, 2005 10:52 AM (umoNu)
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Quothe Eric:
"...a political leader who attracts moderates of both parties and isolates the extreme crazies of both right and left is a very good leader indeed."
True, but we live in extreme times, and there is little room for moderation when you are surrounded, outnumbered, and under attack. Sometimes the extreme crazies are right. Like they say, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get you.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 11:40 AM (0yYS2)
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I like McCain because he is man enough to admit that the North Vietnamese totally broke him.
What I don't like is that the North Vietnamese broke him.
Of course, I was never captured so don't know what he went through. I do know that many POWs were never broken. This worries me.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 01:18 AM (CBNGy)
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Howie trys blogging
Well Rusty has allowed me to post a few things when I can find them. So IÂ’ll try and add a few relevant links during the week. I also may express an opinion or two. But IÂ’ll try to save making an ass out of myself for the comment sections. Rusty and I have the same problem we have real jobs too. So there will be no way I could possibly answer a whole lot of email should that happen. But IÂ’ll try and skim it for links and stuff to post up. Maybe some of you regulars here can help with that. Please send links to either Rusty or myself but not both so we can avoid duplicate posts. Rusty allows links in the comment sections as well. The object from my perspective is to give Rusty more time to do whatever he does like write meaty opinions. Possibly I might learn a bit from the process. I have no idea what heÂ’s thinking, he tells me nothing. Please post responses and argue as always as I think we all get a lot out of that. And nowÂ….
ISSUE ONE, PATRIOT ACT.
See this Yahoo story
Text of patriot act here.
The House last week passed an extension of the “Patriot Act” which makes searches of library records and such more difficult. The President has vowed to veto it. Some civil liberties groups have hailed this as a major improvement. Also the new bill would make the law Permanent and would require further action by Congress to repeal.
QUESTION?
What are the pros and cons of the new Patriot Act and should it be passed? What changes, etc, etc? And should anyone think that this “concession” is better than a simple extension with an expiration date?
I ask you, my fellow civil libertarian and recently reformed, Greg?
Eleanor? Uh I mean Filthy?
Sorry, I know I shouldnÂ’t have. But I always wanted to do that.
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What you'll find Howie is that 99% of critics of the PATRIOT Act do not know what its provisions actually are, and exactly how it changed existing law. Instead, they repeat false claims and exaggerations.
Posted by: Robin Roberts at June 19, 2005 07:24 PM (xauGB)
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Robin speaks the truth. I know of no one outside of KOS-land who makes any claim that their life has been negatively impacted by the Patriot Act (or impacted in any way for that mattter).
Posted by: EvilMe at June 19, 2005 09:25 PM (hi8LV)
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What I want to know is why it's easier to slip under the radar getting a gun than it is to do some reading of "questionable material"... I'm not anti-gun, but damn if it ain't easy for nutjobs to get one. I love how Bush, inc. gives the opposite names to things it's trying to pass to trick those who are asleep in our government into going, "Huh? Where do I sign? When's lunch?". Anyway, as you know I'm not a big fan of the Patriot Act, since I think it's eroding our hard won American freedoms and rights. What does everyone else think? (besides "fuck you osamabinbitchin' lib bastard")
Posted by: osamabeensellin'tinfoil at June 19, 2005 11:40 PM (buka0)
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Yes Sahib, you have question for the Filthy one?
Posted by: Filthy Allah at June 20, 2005 07:46 AM (yBHNA)
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Be specific osama. In what ways specifically has the patriot act 'eroded our freedoms and rights'? Until you can answer that question, you just come accross as hysterical and uninformed.
Oh yeah, fuck you osamabinbitchin' you lib bastard.
Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 08:37 AM (jPCiN)
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Well, I guess 40 Republicans, some known as staunch conservatives, voted for the amendment to be amended anyway...(238 to 187). So that's quite a majority. To be specific, I don't want people monitoring what I read. How is that for a start?
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 20, 2005 10:19 AM (buka0)
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Fair enough osama, I wouldn't much want that either. However, is that what's happening? Is it ok for the FBI to moniter a persons reading if they are already a suspect, or should that be out as well?
Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 10:40 AM (jPCiN)
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As Robin suggests, few people have read the Patriot Act, including the congress critters who voted for it.
"It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote — at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." –Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX).
The bill was rammed through congress a few weeks after 9-11 and during the Anthrax scare. In this atmosphere of hysteria, congress critters were given a couple of days to act on it. It was overwhelmingly passed.
What is so bad about the new law? "Generally," says Rep. Ron Paul, "the worst part of this so-called antiterrorism bill is the increased ability of the federal government to commit surveillance on all of us without proper search warrants." He is referring to Section 213 (Authority for Delaying Notice of the Execution of a Warrant), also known as the "sneak-and-peek" provision, which effectively allows police to avoid giving prior warning when searches of personal property are conducted. Before the USA PATRIOT Act, the government had to obtain a warrant and give notice to the person whose property was to be searched. With one vote by Congress and the sweep of the president's pen, say critics, the right of every American fully to be protected under the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures was abrogated.
Under the USA PATRIOT Act in this country, Section 802 defines domestic terrorism as engaging in "activity that involves acts dangerous to human life that violate the laws of the United States or any state and appear to be intended: (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping."
Under this broad definition, a scuffle at an otherwise peaceful pro-life demonstration might subject attendees to a federal investigation. We have seen abuses of law enforcement authority in the past to harass individuals or organizations with unpopular political views. Congress has given future administrations a tool to investigate pro-life or gun rights organizations on the grounds that fringe members of such groups advocate violence.
According to Rep. Ron Paul, “Many of the most constitutionally offensive measures in the Act are not limited to terrorist offenses, but apply to any criminal activity. In fact, some of the new police powers could be applied even to those engaging in peaceful protest against government policies. The bill as written defines terrorism as acts intended "to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."
According to this definition, any act of civil disobedience now falls under the umbrella of terrorism.
The Act makes it far easier for the government to monitor your Internet usage by adopting a lower standard than probable cause for intercepting e-mails and Internet communications.
The Act also allows the government to order librarians and bookstores owners to report the ‘literary consumptive’ practices of individuals. Librarians around the country have led the charge against this provision in the Patriot Act, arguing that Americans have always been free to read whatever they choose without being monitored by government.
The Act also gives the government the power to access your medical and tax records.
Some of these ‘flawed’ provisions are set to expire at the end of the year. But President Bush wants to make them permanent and even strengthen the Act, and the House and Senate have been holding hearings in preparation for votes.
These are just a tiny fraction of the numerous provisions that conflict with the Constitution.
The Act, rather than focusing on ‘terrorists’, as you and I would define them, focuses on American citizens.
Companions to the Act contain ‘lone wolf’ provisions and FBI pamphlets have been produced and distributed that warn people to be on the look out for people who call themselves Constitutionalists, and to turn them in.
Clearly this act further subordinates American citizens to the whims of government. It brings us one step closer to Martial Law. There are over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States. It is apparent that the government is prepared to round up dissidents should the voice of dissent reach a critical mass.
This is no longer a country governed by the people for the people. The people are now viewed as an impediment to the consolidation of power currently being undertaken by the government. The future is coming into focus. I see tanks in the streets.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, -- The Declaration of Independence
Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 11:11 AM (/+dAV)
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DG...I think snooping library records is crap. Think of how easy it is to get into this country, fake ID's, absurd airport security, weak or nonexistent security involving major water supplies, buildings, bridges, etc. Need a gun? Easier than opening a bank account. Those things worry me more than someone's reading habits. I want results and confidence, not big brother.
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 20, 2005 11:19 AM (p0lNZ)
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Greg: I thought you would like that subject.
Posted by: Howie at June 20, 2005 11:43 AM (D3+20)
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He whose name I shall not repeat said:
"Anyway, as you know I'm not a big fan of the Patriot Act, since I think it's eroding our hard won American freedoms and rights. What does everyone else think?"
I think that the Patriot Act is a necessary evil, but should definitely have a periodic renewal requirement and should never, EVER, become permanent law. Such laws have a way of far outlasting their time, and becoming tools for oppression after their original purpose has expired. I oppose its permenence for the same reason as many others; it can be used by corrupt politicians to attack political opponents, i.e., Hillary "filegate" Clinton.
The Patriot Act itself doesn't bother me an infinitessimal fraction as much4 as a judiciary that is completely out of touch with the Constitution and beyond control of the President, Congress, and the People. When the judiciary exceeds its legal bounds and begins to actively legislate from the bench with little or no regard for the Constitution or American legal and social tradition, then I think it doesn't matter what legislation Congress passes, we're screwed. Congress is like a carnival sideshow with misbehaving monkeys, but the Courts are a big-top three-ring circus with all the elephants gone rogue. Anyone who thinks it's okay for judges to exceed their Contitutional powers just because they happen to agree on a point of contention is just asking for trouble, because once the precedent of excess is established, it's almost impossible to correct.
P.S: Fuck you osamabinbitchin' lib bastard.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 11:54 AM (0yYS2)
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Damn all my typo's today. DAMN THEM TO HELL!!!
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 12:05 PM (0yYS2)
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"DG...I think snooping library records is crap."
I agree, when there is no reason to do so. However, I want the feds to have the rights to investigate the reading habits of those they suspect of terrorism links.
"Think of how easy it is to get into this country, fake ID's, absurd airport security, weak or nonexistent security involving major water supplies, buildings, bridges, etc. "
Not sure what you mean here. Are you really trying to say that since these things are worrisome that they somehow negate the issues of terrorism in general?
"Need a gun? Easier than opening a bank account. "
I assume you are talking about the illegal purchases of firearms. Please remember that the 2nd holds that it is your right to own guns.
"Those things worry me more than someone's reading habits. I want results and confidence, not big brother."
Again, your arguments just don't hold water. If you suspect that someone might be a potential terrorist, and have good reasons for that suspicion, then why hamstring the police by not allowing them access to library records?
Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 12:13 PM (jPCiN)
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Howie,
Good call.
DG,
The government isn't accessing the library or book purchasing activities of terrorists, they are doing it to American dissidents.
Most think that the war is in Iraq. The real war is here at home and were losing badly.
Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 01:07 PM (/+dAV)
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Greg, remember that in here American dissidents are pretty much viewed as terrorists.
DG, man...if you have some pretty solid facts behind someone being a suspected terrorist, you should be able to go after them. This includes any records. The problem I have is in HOW that suspicion is established, not how preventative measures are carried out. I think this completely holds water, btw. I also don't see what you didn't get when talking about water supplies, bridges, etc. since these are major vulnerabilities in our major cities. Cripple or infect can be a nasty, but effective method.
Anyway, I gotta run. I'll be back later after Greg gets banned again.

IM, P.S. Damn you for making me agree with you so many times in the past week!
Posted by: osamabeenlibbin' at June 20, 2005 01:36 PM (p0lNZ)
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DG:
"If you suspect that someone might be a potential terrorist, and have good reasons for that suspicion, then why hamstring the police by not allowing them access to library records?"
The government/police have never been 'hamstrung'. Previously the government needed at least a warrant and probable cause to access private records. The Fourth Amendment, Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, and case law provided that if the state wished to search you, it needed to show probable cause that a crime had been committed and to obtain a warrant from a neutral judge.
Probable cause and a warrant are no longer needed. The government can now investigate the private records of anyone, for any reason it deems appropriate.
Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 01:48 PM (/+dAV)
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"....increased ability of the federal government to commit surveillance on all of us without proper search warrants."
Many forget why all these issues are brought up in the Patriot Act to begin with. It was "too hard" to get warrants to search certain records, seize computers, etc. THAT'S what led to 9/11. The fear of treading on rights is what kept them from taking decisive action in way too many instances.
They don't want to just snoop on any ordinary Joe-on-the-street. It's a total waste of time. They want the ability to do so if there is probable reason to do so. And I WANT them to search [insert suspect's name here] house or computer or library records if he gives good reason to do so.
Posted by: Oyster at June 20, 2005 01:50 PM (fl6E1)
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"Probable cause and a warrant are no longer needed. The government can now investigate the private records of anyone, for any reason it deems appropriate."
That is not the way I understand it. The police are still required to get a warrent, but do not have to tell the suspect that it is being served. I'm not saying I love it, but it does help to not have to show your cards before you are done investigating.
I also don't want it to last forever. I like the sunset provisions and the conversations that we have on its renewal.
Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 02:00 PM (jPCiN)
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Oyster:
'Many forget why all these issues are brought up in the Patriot Act to begin with. It was "too hard" to get warrants to search certain records, seize computers, etc. THAT'S what led to 9/11. The fear of treading on rights is what kept them from taking decisive action in way too many instances.'
Horse puckey!
David Schippers, Chief Council for the House Judiciary Committee and head prosecutor responsible conducting the impeachment against former President Clinton, went public revealing that prior to 9-11, many FBI agents had come to him informing him about the impending attacks. These agents knew the names of the hijackers, the targets of their attacks, the proposed dates, and the sources of the terrorists' funding, etc., many months in advance of the 9/11 attacks. The FBI command pulled them off of their investigations into these terrorists and threatened them with the National Security Act saying that if they talked about any of the information pertaining to their investigations they would be prosecuted. Consequently, many of them sought the council of Mr. Schippers hoping to get somebody in the U.S. government to take action against these terrorists before their plan could be implemented. Mr. Schippers talked to many Congressmen and Senators, and tried to get a hold of Att. Gen. John Ashcroft, all only to get the run-around. Mr. Schippers is now legally representing at least ten of these FBI agents in a suit against the U.S. government in an attempt to subpoena their testimony, where they can then legally tell what they know and legally get it on record.
The pre-9-11 investigation was obstructed by bureaucrats, not the courts, and only God knows why.
Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 02:16 PM (/+dAV)
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WRONG!!!!
The answer is : The consessions will be erased in conference after the Senate takes this up. The bill will be permanent. It will prove useful in the GWT but later the law will be turned inward on ourselves thereby striking a terrible blow to freedom. Thus causing greg to suffer a minor head explosion. He then will sell out and move to patagonia where he will raise sheep and Lamas.
Bye Bye
Next time Howie attempts to create links that go places. Stay tuned.
Posted by: Howie at June 20, 2005 03:46 PM (D3+20)
21
IM wrote "When the judiciary exceeds its legal bounds and begins to actively legislate from the bench with little or no regard for the Constitution or American legal and social tradition, then I think it doesn't matter what legislation Congress passes, we're screwed."
Damn, you know it didn't register till just now, but I think I might have said those exact words about 5 years ago when the Florida recount was stopped! Though, Gore can wipe my ass with a thousand hanging chads 'cause I didn't like him either.
Posted by: osamabeenvotin' at June 20, 2005 04:42 PM (p0lNZ)
22
The government is more than welcome to investigate my private records. I can't see the harm. That is being a patriot I have nothing to fear. Perhaps, some others have something to fear. If looking into my personal records or library books I have read helps root out those who would kill innocent people I say more power to them.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 01:07 AM (CBNGy)
23
GR: I don't think it's about that. I think most people are afraid of these powers being abused, or afraid to read something which might place them under suspicion. That's great that you have nothing to hide, but what if we lived in a country where your views expressed on these blogs got you arrested without trial or a lawyer to be held indefinitely? Many people who have no intentions on being or helping a terrorist have plenty to fear about the government intruding on their privacy.
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 23, 2005 12:21 PM (CYGDF)
24
What if? The truth is I don't live in a country like you describe. What if an elephant runs through my cattle fences tonight? Should I build an elephant proof fence just in case? The fact that Greg and Colon Babler haven't been arrested and hung for treason is proof that we do not live in a country where people are arrested for expressing their views. You have to come with a factual claim not an if to convince me. How many innocent lives can be saved? That should be the major concern.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 10:38 PM (CBNGy)
25
Which innocent lives...the blacks killed by your KKK or the Iraqis killed by our "smart bombs"?
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 24, 2005 12:59 PM (CYGDF)
26
osamabeenthere:
Neither of those. I'm far more interested in the number of whites attacked, robbed and killed by blacks today in the United States. Read the papers and face reality. The muggers are not white people wearing white sheets. There is more than a few areas of New Orleans I would like to drop you off in tonight. If you lived through it you would have a serious attitude adjustment. A real mind clearing experience. Reality will wake you up. A 38 slug through my stomach for not giving up my wallet 3 years ago woke me up. Result. 4 months in the hospital for me. One black mugger shot in the ass and now doing life in Angola. One black mugger escaped only to be killed a month later during a robbery.
What happened in the past, if true I had nothing to do with. Nor do I hold todays Germans and Japanese responsible for what happened 60 years ago. Stupid to bring up or hold responsible todays Germans and Japanese for what happened under a different political climate. Also stupid to constantly remind them of it. This also applies to the stupid shouting of what the Glorious Knights of the Klu Klux Klan did nor did not do 60 years ago. As to the Iraqis killed by smart bombs. Pity. All they have to do is lay down their arms and turn in the terrorists and it would all stop. Pity they are too stupid and too stuborn to see the writing on the wall. If the scum bag islamic terrorists you feel pity for were not consentrating their efforts in Iraq they would be consentrating their resources in Europe and America. My personal opinion. Better them than mine. Better you than me. And I will do everything and anything to make it turn out that way. Also, so I am very clear. Muslims are the biggest threat to peace in the history of the world. More than the commies, more than the facists, more than the nazis. Everywhere this gutter religion is practiced. Nothing but trouble, killing, pain and suffering. Look around the world. Or are you as stupid and stuborn as the fucking islamofacists.
Posted by: greyrooster at June 24, 2005 09:44 PM (CBNGy)
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June 05, 2005
Letters to Heroes: A Request
Rusty has given me permission to post this upon The Jawa Report and I thank him for doing so. I started a campaign to send letters to our service men and women about a week ago after seeing how many U.S. soldiers simply want mail. Letters for Heroes is about to ship out therefore this is your last chance, and to some it may be their first and last chance, to
submit a letter that will be sent out tomorrow to the following service men and women.
SGT George W. Granter who is the squad leader of a recon team in Afghanistan. There are eight people on his team and their request is mail from the States.
PV2 Eric Avila who is stationed at Kandahar Air Base in Afghanistan and has yet to recieve even one piece of mail. His request is simple mail and we should do our part and send him letters of encouragement.
SPC Jon Drzewiecki who is stationed near Tikrit, Iraq and wishes to recieve mail for himself and his 17 other fellow soldiers. SPC Drzewiecki wishes to get some email penpals as well therefore include your email address in the letter.
Basic rules of submissions: Simply said, there are none. Your letter can be one line thanking a soldier for his or her service or it could be a very well thought out draft as some submissions have detailed. There are both men and women in these groups so please keep that in mind. If you wish further correspondence, include your physical address and/or email address.
How to be included in this effort: It cannot be more easy than this. Simply comment to my post here (I can pull email addresses off the comments if you wish but please state you wish me to do so) or email your letter to me.
While this is a small sacrifice for us to undertake, spending 10 minutes of our time, it means the world to our soldiers fighting for our freedoms accross the globe. Please take the time to create a letter and include it in Letters to Heroes.
I also want to thank those who have supported this effort and who have already sent in letters. I've recieved 23 letters thus far and I'm hoping to get another seven in this last minute push. Let's show our soldiers how much we care for their putting their lives in harms way by sending a letter.
Posted by: Chad at
03:21 PM
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Post contains 418 words, total size 3 kb.
Posted by: Oyster at June 05, 2005 04:11 PM (YudAC)
2
Dear soldiers(s),
I'm really not sure what to say except thank you for your service to our country. You may email me at mchlhwrd@yahoo.com for any reason. I live in southern ILL and it's getting pretty warm here right now about 90 and humid. Probably sounds pretty comfortable compared to where you may be. Personally I've had a pretty rought day but my problems are most likely miniscule compared to the work which you all are doing. If you want to drop me a line or would like to hear just generally what is going on around here I would be glad to oblidge.
Thanks again for all your hard work and may you all come home to your families safe and sound. Hang in there and we all hope to see you soon.
sincerly
Michael Howard
Posted by: Howie at June 05, 2005 04:13 PM (D3+20)
3
Stupid me: I'll post that at the other place as well.
Posted by: Howie at June 05, 2005 04:16 PM (D3+20)
4
Heh. That's fine Howie. I get email notices of comments to this post here too, though I didn't realize it before. Thank you all for your letters, but please keep them piling in. If I get enough, I'll find other soldiers that are just wanting contact.
Posted by: Chad Evans at June 05, 2005 05:03 PM (042xS)
5
I don't even write my mom, and you want me to write a GI? Now you're making me feel guilty.
Posted by: Carlos at June 05, 2005 06:19 PM (UWO6N)
6
Chad, you should have included a request at the end that says something like "To liberals, please no hate mail."
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at June 05, 2005 06:47 PM (xkIHW)
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Anyone that would send a soldier hate mail is just pathetic and should be chimped.
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 05, 2005 08:06 PM (B9hEP)
8
osama,
97.8% of you Libs wouldn't do it, but if someone DID do it, he'd be a Lib.
Posted by: Carlos at June 05, 2005 08:16 PM (UWO6N)
9
Thus far it has not been political as I do not want it to be, but rest assured, if there is a letter that is extremely derogatory then I won't send it. The reaction I've recieved has been positive with the exception of people emailing me to question the validity of the war.
And Carlos, that's kind of the point to make you feel guilty. Let's face it, I don't have much else to try to persuade people to write to soldiers.
Posted by: Chad Evans at June 05, 2005 08:30 PM (042xS)
10
Chad
It was a joke. I have 2 soldiers that I write to and send care packages to every month or so. If you've never heard of it "Operation Sandbox" is a great place to get started.
It really is fulfilling to do something, anything. I'm lucky enough to have some money and it felt great to help out the wife and daughter of one of the soldiers financially. These families really do go through a lot.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at June 05, 2005 09:10 PM (xkIHW)
11
I took it as a joke. I'll look up Operation Sandbox and see what I can do to help out. Thank you for the tip Capitalist Infidel.
Posted by: Chad Evans at June 05, 2005 09:26 PM (042xS)
12
Carlos, what am I gonna do with you? You know I'm not a lib. But I'm not righty either!
Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 05, 2005 09:32 PM (B9hEP)
13
I'm with Soldier's Angels. Boxes will be sent out within the next week to all three of the soldiers that were listed.
Posted by: RPL at June 07, 2005 12:52 PM (RonCI)
14
Just wanted to post a quickie to say thanks for everything. I would love to write to anyone who would enjoy getting mail. Email me your mailing address at tinamarie0614@yahoo.com and I'll gladly sit down and take the time to send an enjoyable letter.
Posted by: Tina at August 10, 2005 12:35 PM (N19+8)
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May 16, 2005
Missing Fat Boy Whines, Sulks
Mookie Al-Sadr, paunchy moderate-cleric-murderin' city-attacking Shiite rabble rouser, floated up from his hidey-hole and
criticized the US and Saddam. He's been scarce since a warrant went out for his arrest in connection with the murder of a rival cleric.

Buddy, try the Al-Atkins
Yeah, he's a creep. The actual news here is that Ahmed Chalabi is helping him negotiate the dismissal of the indictment. I am conflicted about Chalabi's role in Iraq; people who know far more about Iraq than I do are sharply divided about whether Chalabi is a true Iraqi patriot or a self-dealing opportunist. The Fox article is a little vague about Chalabi's role, but any association with al-Sadr looks bad for him.
Let's remember what else al-Sadr did besides allegedly arranging the murder of a respected, moderate Shiite cleric and being a suspect in assorted other assassinations and sundry other anti-US activities. He also destroyed a Gypsy village (Qawliya) for immorality back in 2004. His mob leveled the town with machine guns, RPG's, and mortars when the village refused to give up a woman to stand trial for prostitution in Sadr's kangaroo religious court. An excellent dossier on all his Sadrmizing can be found in, of all places, Newsweek.
This murdering thug must not be allowed to return to a place of public power and respectability in Iraq.
UPDATE: CAPTION MOOKIE!
e.g., "We must sit on the American Infidels and crush them beneath our enormous Islamic butt!"
Posted by: seedubya at
04:03 PM
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1
I think another reason he's had the balls to pop up is the news that Zarqawi MIGHT (stressed) be fatally wounded. Sadr was just one guy in the way for Zarqawi and the feeling was mutual. Problem for Sadr was that Zarqawi was far more powerful and well funded.
Posted by: Editor at May 16, 2005 04:23 PM (adpJH)
2
Rusty - that guy is fucking butt ugly. Please remove his picture from the website...replace with pussy terrorist from mine.
Posted by: Mr. K at May 16, 2005 04:28 PM (9XmE5)
3
Zarqawi more well-funded? I think the Sadrmite gets his moolah from the mullahs of Iran. Zarqawi's probably strapped for cash, although he is certainly less of a whiny mama's boy.
Posted by: See-Dubya at May 16, 2005 04:28 PM (KO8iS)
4
Al-Sadr demands Americans leave Iraq
http://www.bakersfield.com/24hour/world/story/2399267p-10673718c.html
“Anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr came out of hiding Monday for the first time since his fighters clashed with American forces in August, delivering a fiery speech demanding that coalition forces leave Iraq and that Saddam Hussein be punished.”
Posted by: greg at May 16, 2005 04:42 PM (/+dAV)
5
Greg, we can read. See-Dubya gave us a link with the same information from the same source, an AP journalist. So, what was your point?
Posted by: Oyster at May 16, 2005 06:28 PM (YudAC)
6
It looks like the dude in the back is downing a bottle of Bud.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at May 16, 2005 06:38 PM (xkIHW)
7
Downing a Bud, smokin' a fattie, blowin a horn, poofing a spitball at Mookie...What is that guy doing? And why is Moqtada making that little "OK" sign? Is he a Sooner fan?
Your captions, gentlemen...
Posted by: See-Dubya at May 17, 2005 12:22 AM (lNCeP)
8
XDDDDD Had a social studies field trip to KELA. Changed my religion to Islam XD roflmao! Now I have to wait a week to rechange it to evangelish Lutheran. (perhaps not, maybe Mormon! XD)
Posted by: A Finn at May 17, 2005 03:14 AM (cWMi4)
Posted by: Saint Chuckles at May 17, 2005 06:36 AM (PsAK+)
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Sounds like a Finish version of a Somerset Maugham novel.
When you arrive at the Catholic faith Finn, you will have found the great truth.
Your walking on the RazorÂ’s edge, I hope you find the right answer before you fall off.
Posted by: Brad at May 17, 2005 08:38 AM (pO1tP)
11
Lighten up, man. Just messing with the government officials a bit. I'll re-Lutheranize eventually, but perhaps some Taoism first =).
Posted by: A Finn at May 17, 2005 03:01 PM (lGolT)
12
And there's no way I'll go Catholic for even a week. It's heretic Pope-,Jesus- and saint-worshipping, and way too much associated with pedofilia.
Posted by: A Finn at May 18, 2005 02:19 AM (cWMi4)
13
Jesus did not found his chruch on the rock of Luther or Mohammad
Posted by: Brad at May 18, 2005 09:02 AM (pO1tP)
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Perhaps the Jews are the only ones who are right then. They worship only God and have no particular person other people can say founded their religion, so their connection with God is more credible than a religions with a clear founder to question and call crazy cultleader.
Posted by: A Finn at May 18, 2005 04:17 PM (lGolT)
15
Well, go ahead and embrace it young Finn. That would take you to a better place than where you are now.
The Great Church can take you from there home.We have many Jewish converts. YouÂ’re evolving!
Posted by: Brad at May 18, 2005 05:38 PM (jH4e4)
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I think people can't convert to Jewism, I hear you can only be Judaist if you weren't born a Jew.
I'll just go back to evangelish-Lutheran ATHEIST that I've always been. Best way for me. Being a PAGAN would be a lot more fun, since then I wouldn't even know of this stupid Yahweh messing up the world and running three religions, which he makes fight one another.
Posted by: A Finn at May 19, 2005 04:20 AM (cWMi4)
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Finn,
If I could take away your keys to the sleigh, I would.
Posted by: Brad at May 19, 2005 07:55 AM (pO1tP)
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? Oooooookaaaaayyy... For some reason that doesn't make any sense.
Posted by: A Finn at May 19, 2005 10:20 AM (lGolT)
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"Buddy, try the Al-Atkins" and "We must sit on the American Infidels and crush them beneath our enormous Islamic butt!"
The USA is still the most obese nation in the world the last time I checked... You should have captioned: "Will will track down and shoot the American Infidels who will not be able to run fast enough to escape us with their fat asses and the rest will die of heart attacks!"
Posted by: osamabeenthere at May 19, 2005 11:09 AM (WfZ6a)
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Progress in the Middle East
By
Matt from WMD:
From Reuters:
Kuwait's parliament passed a law on Monday granting women the right to vote and run in elections, for the first time in the pro-Western Gulf Arab state.
Kuwaiti women lining the podium burst into cheers when parliament speaker Jassim al-Khorafi said the legislation had been passed by a majority of the all-male parliament to grant full suffrage to women.
"We made it. This is history," said prominent activist Roula al-Dashti. "Our target is the parliamentary polls in 2007. I'm starting my campaign from today," she told reporters.
There were 35 in favor, 23 against, and one abstention on the vote that had met fierce resistance from Islamists and other MPs.
Although, apparently, it is too late for women to register and run for office in the next election.
This is a step in the right direction for the Middle East.
Does anybody think this sort of thing would be happening if Saddam were still in power?
Visit Matt's home blog: Weapons of Mass Discussion
Posted by: MattWMD at
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1
"Does anybody think this sort of thing would be happening if Saddam were still in power?"
Why not?
Posted by: greg at May 16, 2005 02:07 PM (/+dAV)
2
Well, Greg, I don't know if you noticed, but democracy easn't exactly flourishing over there before...and women's rights weren't exactly being championed by anybody... I'm just saying...
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 16, 2005 02:16 PM (vQcWL)
3
I fail to see the cause and affect. Just sayin...
Posted by: greg at May 16, 2005 02:18 PM (/+dAV)
4
Let me guess, you also think that Libya would have spontaneously given up their WMD programs while Saddam was still in power too...
Reforms such as this didn't have any kind of support prior to the democratization on Iraq...now that there is a free Arab nation in the Middle East, people in surrounding countries want it too...that's about as 'cause and effect' as it gets.
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 16, 2005 02:29 PM (vQcWL)
5
Forget Lybia Matt.
The question is how did Saddam's removal contribute to the Kuwaiti decision to allow women to run and vote for political office?
I fail to see the connection and you haven't provided one. I'll let you have a do over.
Posted by: greg at May 16, 2005 02:35 PM (/+dAV)
6
Clearly you don't believe in the transformative power of democracy. I can't make you see it, man...
Is it POSSIBLE that Kuwait would have allowed women to vote if Saddam were still in power? Sure... Is it likely? I don't think so.
But really, neither of us is going to be able to "prove" it to the other because we're engaging in speculation.
My whole point in asking the question was to see which types of people would say exactly what you said...
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 16, 2005 02:39 PM (vQcWL)
7
Matt,
referring to Kuwaiti women's new found right to vote you made the statement, "Does anybody think this sort of thing would be happening if Saddam were still in power?".
You were given two chances to provide an argument that supports your contention. The best you can do is attriibute the affect to the "transformative power of democracy". That's baby talk Matt. Maybe one of the other readers will be kind enough to come to your rescue.
Posted by: greg at May 16, 2005 02:46 PM (/+dAV)
8
greg is at it again I see. So greg, tell us why it isn't related.
Posted by: Defense Guy at May 16, 2005 02:48 PM (jPCiN)
9
I can't help it if you lack the ability to understand me, Greg...would smaller words help you out some?
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 16, 2005 02:50 PM (vQcWL)
10
The new guy's an Idiot.
Posted by: greg at May 16, 2005 03:02 PM (/+dAV)
11
And that makes you, what? Some kind of genius? Whatever, dude...
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 16, 2005 03:09 PM (vQcWL)
Posted by: Pudgy at May 16, 2005 03:27 PM (xh/Qw)
13
Greg, I'll explain it for you, but I'm afraid I will have to use lots of big words, so get someone to help you if you can. First, with the establishment of parliamentary democracy in Iraq, which of course had nothing to do with the fall of Saddam, which of course was not due to the war, women are guaranteed 27% of all legislative seats. In most places, this is called "progress", except by progressives of course, who pretend it doesn't exist, as it could only be called progress if the UN was involved, in which case the female children of the country would have been introduced to the progressive notion of child prostituion, but I digress. Oh also, Afghan women have guaranteed seats in their government as well, but of course, one thing has nothing to do with the other, and the fact that both followed closely on the heels of American wars of liberation are purely coincidental, and as we all know, both wars have been double-plus-ungood for all those poor people who have had to suffer the indignities of freedom.
Second, the women of Iraq and Afghanistan no longer have as much to fear as they once did, i.e. kidnapping, rape rooms, etc.. The women of Kuwait, who have been more free up to this point than the women of Iraq and Afghanistan, don't like the fact that they're now less free. It's not a jealousy thing, they just want to be free. Imagine that, don't they know they'd be better off if Saddam was still in power? I'm not sure how they would be, but if you, the all knowing, all seeing greg say so, it must be true.
So, greg, why are you so dead set against making people free? Is it the fact that they're just "little brown people", or is it that in your heart, where you secretly admire "Uncle Joe", you think autocractic authoritarianism is better than freedom? I'm guessing the latter, since people who are free to choose and well informed rarely choose the left hand path of politics, and that just kills you.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 16, 2005 04:30 PM (0yYS2)
14
greg: "I fail to see the cause and affect. Just sayin..."
But you can't deny the timing.
Posted by: Carlos at May 16, 2005 11:09 PM (8e/V4)
15
Granting full political rights to Kuwaiti women has nothing to do with the fact that Saddam was driven out of power. Kuwait has been known as the only democratic country in the gulf since it was established. The first sheikh Sabah the 1st was chosen by shoura (elections within the tribes of kuwait). Study Kuwait's history, and you will know for a fact that women activists were pushing for rights since the early 70's. Oh and not to forget mentioning the Amiri decree of 1999 ( the Amir granting the women full political rights before Saddam's fall , was shut down by opposing groups in the parliament).
Posted by: q8iya at May 19, 2005 03:08 PM (ZJu3S)
16
Well, Greg, I don't know if you noticed, but democracy easn't exactly flourishing over there before...and women's rights weren't exactly being championed by anybody... I'm just saying...
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 16, 2005 02:16 PM
------------------------------------------------
In addition,
((Kuwait's organic law, with its formal commitment to equality, is a feminist mainstay, providing a normative justification for women's continuing efforts to achieve equal rights under a constitution that is widely respected by the population.))
Posted by: q8iya at May 19, 2005 03:15 PM (ZJu3S)
17
benım adım kerım hepınızı severım
Posted by: onur at June 21, 2005 08:28 PM (a2t1C)
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May 13, 2005
The Meaning of Patriotism
By
Matt from WMD:
The word has been tossed about with little regard for what it actually means and for purposes both sacred and profane, but what does it really mean to be a patriot?
Most people confuse patriotism with nationalism, which couldn't be further from the definition of actual patriotism if it were spoken on another planet. George William Curtis:
A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains and rivers and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle.
Allegiance to the land is not patriotism. One of the greatest statements of patriotism is the Pledge of Allegiance wherein we express our loyalty to the Republic for which the flag represents. Our Republic is more than just the land: it includes our system of laws which provides for our civil rights, and our way of life as revealed in the promise of the American Dream.
more...
Posted by: MattWMD at
09:09 AM
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1
I have always liked this description- I read it someplace shortly after 9/11, can't recall where, so I can't give credit, but it goes something like this:
We don't live in America- America lives in us. No matter where we are- there is America.
Says a lot in a little doesn't it?
Posted by: Harry at May 13, 2005 09:22 AM (Ntu3j)
2
I like that one a lot Harry...thanks for sharing!
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 13, 2005 09:25 AM (vQcWL)
3
I'm loyal to the Republic, the people of America, our way of life and our democratic values, and the land. That's my patriotism.
Posted by: Carlos at May 13, 2005 09:43 AM (8e/V4)
4
"Where there is freedom, there is my country."
I don't remember who wrote it, or if I got it right, but that's the meat and bones of it.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 13, 2005 12:05 PM (0yYS2)
5
That's Benjamin Franklin...
...to which Thomas Paine retorted, "Where there is none, there is mine."
Paine's statement is a reflection of his desire to fight for freedom everywhere.
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 13, 2005 12:24 PM (vQcWL)
Posted by: Carlos at May 13, 2005 12:59 PM (8e/V4)
7
Carlos,
Thanks, man...I appreciate being dug...so to speak...
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 13, 2005 01:08 PM (vQcWL)
8
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posted by: steven baber at May 13, 2005 01:10 PM (WfZ6a)
9
steven,
LOL, dig that one too.
Posted by: Carlos at May 13, 2005 03:06 PM (8e/V4)
10
"I hate Emerson."---Young Bourbon Professional
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at May 13, 2005 03:49 PM (x+5JB)
11
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government," -- The Declaration of Independence
Read that last sentence a few times.
Posted by: greg at May 13, 2005 04:03 PM (/+dAV)
12
Greg,
You're one of them "dissenters" aren't you...?
Posted by: Matt Hurley at May 13, 2005 04:09 PM (vQcWL)
Posted by: greg at May 13, 2005 04:29 PM (/+dAV)
14
greg's patriotism is always to side with our enemies.
Posted by: Carlos at May 14, 2005 12:08 AM (8e/V4)
15
Carlos makes a fallacious accusation.
Posted by: greg at May 14, 2005 10:59 AM (/+dAV)
16
greg,
an accusation based on the fact that you always do side with our enemies.
Posted by: Carlos at May 14, 2005 11:18 AM (8e/V4)
17
That's a bold faced lie.
Posted by: greg at May 14, 2005 11:21 AM (/+dAV)
18
greg,
it's not a lie. If some foreign newspaper nobody's ever heard of slanders our GIs, you proclaim that slander as the gospel truth. And that's just an example.
Posted by: Carlos at May 14, 2005 12:21 PM (8e/V4)
19
An atheist rabbi? Curious.
Posted by: Kazmin at May 14, 2005 04:34 PM (hp7es)
20
I believe the phrase Matt used was "agnostic."
As to Greg vs. Carlos, I tend to side with Carlos. Even those who dissented with the US involvement in WWII became supportive when we were dragged into the conflict. Where is that same level of patriotism and understanding today? Tell me, Greg, what do you think of the inaccurate and seditionist reporting of Newsweek in regards to the Koran, or Andygirl Sullivan's Ratheresque comment of "false but plausible?" Isn't that a disgraceful malign of our troops? If you don't think so, then you are as carlos describes.
Posted by: Mark at May 15, 2005 08:48 PM (Z+sy5)
21
We've seen so many times that greg approves of this country's enemies and scorns its allies, that it is obvious that greg's basic demeanor is treasonous.
Posted by: SPQR at May 15, 2005 08:55 PM (xauGB)
22
An atheist rabbi? Curious.
Sure. Those are usually Liberal Jews who don't believe in God but think adding "rabbi" to their name gives them some added credibility. Like a "Rev" Al Sharpton.
Posted by: Carlos at May 15, 2005 11:07 PM (8e/V4)
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If you don't think so, then you are as carlos describes.
It is as Carlos described. I wasn't trying to insult my friend greg, I was just calling it as I saw it.
Posted by: Carlos at May 15, 2005 11:08 PM (8e/V4)
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ANYONE CAN PUT DOWN THEIR THOUGHTS AS IF THEY ARE RIGHT. HOWEVER, ONES PERSONAL THOUGHTS MAY
OR NOT BE, CORRECT.
PEOPLE HAVE A TENDENCY TO THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING,BUT I'VE FOUND THAT THEY ONLY THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING. EXAMPLE: ONE WHO IS AN ATHIEST OR AGNOSTIC TRIES TO TOSS HIS VIEWS
TOWARD THOSE WHO HAVE A BELIEF IN GOD, AND VISA VERSA, ALL I CAN SAY IS "WHEN ONE LEAVES THIS WORLD (DIES)AND IS AN AGNOSTIC AND/OR ATHIEST,
IF HE'S WRONG HE'LL KNOW IT FOR THE REST OF THE TIME IN HELL: IF A BELIEVER IN GOD DIES AND THE ATHIEST IS CORRECT, HE'LL NEVER KNOW IT. BUT IF HE'(THE BELIEVER IS CORRECT HE'LL KNOW IN THRU ETERNITY".
Posted by: JOE CASS at November 08, 2005 12:06 PM (+6ypn)
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March 17, 2005
Leadership Standards: Another Peeve
by Demosophist
On Bill Maher tonight I heard the host say something to the effect that "Well yeah, Bush had a list of reasons for invading Iraq and about the fourth one down had to do with regime change to rid the people of that brutal murderous dictator. But he obviously lied about everything else." And a similar bit of dissembling wisdom popped out the other night on Dennis Miller, from some panel guest whose name I have no good reason to recall. Well, I could waste time, as did David Horowitz on the Miller show, recounting how a lot of people made quite a big fuss about regime change and the "suffering of the Iraqi people." But I recall almost no one on the left saying anything like that, other than the usual suspects: Paul Berman (who wrote a book about it), Bernard Kouchner, and Chris Hitchens, as well as a few bloggers like Marc Danziger on Winds of Change. And all of those folks have subsequently been disowned and shunned by many of their ideological compatriots.
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But Bush is going to drill in the frozen wasteland of the north! How can you support someone that cares more for Middle Easterners and our own sovereignty than some large mammals to the north?
I mean; freeing people whilst you destroy the earth beneath you, folly!
Posted by: Lune at March 17, 2005 06:14 AM (k56Dr)
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Nice point out Rusty, but you might as well tell the whole quote from last fridays show in full. He also added in the next sentence that if they had just come out and told the forth point and said that it was their main reason to invade in the first place then more people would have not taken the opposition to the whole issue.
Posted by: Salamander at March 17, 2005 06:42 AM (W2YA6)
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I've been there. It is a frozen wasteland. It will always remain frozen but doesn't have to continue being a waste.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 17, 2005 08:48 AM (DAWnL)
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You know I figured out a long time ago that Bush was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. So it is so easy for Bill Maher (that fuckin prick) to say oh the fourth reason would have been better blah blah blah!!! Come on now do you think anything Bush has done or would have done would make any of those folks happy?
Posted by: joey at March 17, 2005 11:19 AM (a8b5N)
Posted by: greyrooster at March 17, 2005 12:00 PM (CBNGy)
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Actually, if memory serves correct, in the dying days of his second term, Clinton signed the Bill protecting the Alaskan refuge from drilling. For the vast majority of his term in office, he didn't try and protect it. Bush is simply returning the drilling option back on to the table.
Oh, and it's a little too early to start crowing about vindication and success in Iraq. It's not really democracy at this point. Democracy (if such a thing can even flourish in a region chracterized by tribal interests for centuries) is when the coalition pulls out and people have a choice to choose from a truly universal range of governments (be they friendly to U.S. interests or not).
And, as someone posted here once, I love how the "blogosphere" suddenly has the plethora of Middle East experts. Gimme a break.
Posted by: Venom at March 17, 2005 12:14 PM (dbxVM)
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I know that a lot of people on the Left were concerned about the sanction's effects on women and children there for a decade. Unfortunately, people on the Right called them bleeding hearts for it. When it finally came down to brass tacks (do we invade alone or get the UN in there with us) everyone made fun of the Left again for wanting someone with us who actually knows a little about nation-building.
Posted by: Jimbo at March 17, 2005 01:29 PM (9qklm)
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Where did the left gain this knowledge? From the UN?
Posted by: greyrooster at March 17, 2005 02:00 PM (CBNGy)
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Jimbo,
There is no 'UN'. The UN is a PLACE. We would NEVER have gotten UN approval because the UN is a place where nation's meet. Those nation's have different INTERESTS than we do. France and Russia had an interest in LIFTING the sanctions, thus that is what they supported. The US had an interest in tightening the sanctions, thus that is what we supported. The same with the war.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at March 17, 2005 02:21 PM (JQjhA)
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March 09, 2005
What's Next, Debtors' Prisons?
Disclaimer: I'm not sure how Rusty feels about this issue, and for all I know we're diametrically opposed... so just make sure this post isn't attributed to him. I should also note that I'm not exactly a "liberal pushover." I believe, wholeheartedly, in the "ownership society." That said:
I'm sorry, but there's just something obscene about the way this Bankruptcy Bill is sailing to passage, without even token opposition from anyone. It seems almost self-evident to me that if it's such a walk in the park to file bankruptcy under current statute then the appropriate reaction from a responsible credit industry would be to... lend less, or at least cut the predatory lending, deception, etc.. That being the case, there's simply no way to interpret the desire to make bankruptcy as painful as having the skin stripped off your back by a cat-o-nine-tails (instead of just losing a hand or something), unless it's an over-arching GRUNCH (what R. Buckminster Fuller used to call the "Great Universal Cash Heist.") Gosh, you'd think that'd be a Democrat issue, right? I mean them being the guardians of the poor and disadvantaged and all.
We know how that worked out, for Iraq and the Middle East.
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No one forces someone to get a credit card, or to over spend after getting it (you call the interest rate terms "misleading", but I don't think anyone is confused by the fact that the money has to be repaid).
Next thing you know you will blame McDonalds for making Americans fat. They make their food cheap, advertise it excessively. Let's make everything someone else's fault!
Posted by: whatever at March 09, 2005 08:13 PM (Urdua)
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Perhaps you should take the time to actually read this new law you are against:
- People who make less than the median income in their state are excempted
- People filing for bankrupcy due to medical expenses, divorce, or military service are exempted
The new law essentially applies means testing (i.e. what is your income) to see if you can actually repay your debts. Is this bad?
I am no fan of credit card companies, but according to the WSJ they make up 20% of bankrupcy debt. The rest are small business and the like.
So do some more research and explain why it is bad instead of just making a kneejerk reaction.
Posted by: Director Mitch at March 09, 2005 08:58 PM (Urdua)
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- People filing for bankrupcy due to medical expenses, divorce, or military service are exempted
That's not true. Durbin, Kennedy and Feingold proposed those amendments and
none of them passed.
Pherhaps you should do some reading too.
Posted by: Mike at March 10, 2005 10:27 AM (ELnLC)
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Perhaps you should take the time to actually read this new law you are against:
The exemptions are certainly useful (except that all but one were voted down in amendment) but my basic problem is that the credit card industry is the prime mover for this legislation, and I've watched their ramp-up of predatory lending since the sixties. This is the logical next step in what amounts to bad public policy. As Glenn Reynolds says, if borrowers have to reap the consequences of their bad decisions (in the form of seven years of no credit at the very least) why do lenders figure they should be exempted from consequences they knew about when they extended credit? Sorry, but this dips into the some trough as corporate welfare. It is not libertarian, or even public choice, oriented. It's blatant manipulation of and by the state.
No one forces someone to get a credit card, or to over spend after getting it .... Next thing you know you will blame McDonalds for making Americans fat.
Again, the argument applies just as well to debtors' prisons. I mean, they deserve it because they didn't read the fine print, right? Of course, most people would need a magnifying glass to discover that credit card companies are empowered to extort userous interest rates should people fall behind on a payment or two... but it's in writing and devil take the hindmost, etc.
There was a reason why the levitical law imposed a "judilee year" and it had to do with the extraordinarily corrosive impact of debt on the society, and the relative innocuity of forgiving debts that had been contrived on bad grounds. The bottom line here, as Glenn also points out, is that this law will raise the number of suicides and murders... which I guess is a small price if you happen to be in the credit card business. The ultimate irony, of course, is that this takes place in a context where the people sitting on these corparate boards know full well that at some point the national debts that they've underwritten will be repudiated. They're just milking the system for all its worth, before that happens.
But this bill is actually enough for me to reconsider my decision to leave the democrats, or to vote consistently Republican. It adheres to the stereotypical view of Republicans as willing to jettison the public good if there's some Scrooge-like profit in doing so. And believe me, I'm not going to enjoy the political repurcussions of this, because I was sort of looking forward to this "ownership society" thing.
Fat freakin' chance. Apparently it's just a lot of hot air.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 10, 2005 02:22 PM (Dfdj0)
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Demosophist: Your concerns are mine. I have been the victim of bankruptcy many times. It did need to be tightened up. Borrowing money to finance a new swimming pool and then filing for bankrupcy 60 days later is a farce that needed fixing. However, as bad as the bankruptcy laws are, they are needed. My company included a percentage of bankruptcies in our profit structure. That added we never really got beat to bad. Young people make mistakes. They over borrow because credit companies are greedy. They offer credit to easily. Young people that are victims of salesmen and credit companies working together should not have their lives ruined because of a few mistakes. This new law scarces me. Doesn't affect me but scares me. Everyone sometimes needs a way out. A fresh start. They need room to gather themselves for another crack at the future. We shouldn't remove this option.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 11, 2005 08:41 PM (CBNGy)
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The exclusions are there to be accepted or rejected by the bankrupcy judge. The filer has to show that the bankrupcy is due to an "unusual circumstance", which can include divorce, medical, etc.
And for the fine print on credit cards? I don't care what they say, but no one forces people to go out and spend more than they can pay back every month. If you think people need to be protected from themselves and taken care of by the government, then by all means go vote democratic. They will put you in a nice tight cacoon and protect you from all your actions.
Increase suicides and murders? Give me a break, you are sounding no better than the wingbats who predicted all the nasty things before the Iraq war that didn't happen because you can't make your argument otherwise (maybe you can add that it will cause hemoroids?)
This law makes bankrupcy harder, it doesn't outlaw it. Like abortion, bankrupcy should be legal, but difficult to obtain. If it's a little harder, then maybe people will think about their actions a little more.
Posted by: whatever at March 14, 2005 10:48 PM (Urdua)
7
Sorry, but someone is messing around with the comment submission protocols so that forbidden words embedded in other words result in a submission error. Hence, I can't spell the fruit of the vine, g@ape because it contains the forbidden word @ape, and can't correctly spell the word "sozialism" because it contains the forbidden word zialis.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 15, 2005 04:42 AM (Dfdj0)
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March 05, 2005
The Stone and the Sword: Nation-Building in Iraq
By Demosophist
I've been thinking lately about the process of nation-building in Iraq and elsewhere, under the difficult conditions imposed by a vicious terrorist insurgency. The prospects for the enterprise sometimes seem as likely as the quest for the Philosopher's Stone, the mythical device that was supposed to turn "dross into gold." Somehow the transfer of legitimacy from an occupying power to a new liberal democratic government, in a recently totalitarian society, seems just as implausible, and valuable. Recently I compared this bit of alchemy to a famous cycling contest, between American Lance Armstrong and Italian Marco Pantani, up the slopes of the bleak and legendary Mont Ventoux. Cycling is such a rich mix of competition and cooperation that it often supplies useful analogies for political processes, and this particular contest seemed appropriate because it involved an attempt by Armstrong to "render the victory" to another rider, in order to obtain cooperation of that rider's team in a larger strategy. The attempt was unsuccessful for a number of reasons.
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two questions
1. was this your dissertation?
2, was it approved?
You know how to wear a dumb exJarhead out! My eyes hurt. We have been, are and will win the War on Terror. Have faith
Posted by: Rod Stanton at March 06, 2005 06:48 AM (l5t6M)
2
Rod:
But did you like the title?
Posted by: Demosophist at March 06, 2005 08:31 AM (Dfdj0)
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OK I liked the title. I read the entire thing and you owe me for a new set of glasses. The title inttrigued me.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at March 06, 2005 08:07 PM (l5t6M)
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Didn't Nietzche say something along the lines of "only a fool muddies his water?"
1) You state the obvious when you make the theoretical comment that Iraq will be able to handle itself when it has a population that supports its government and that (in theory) their military will be able to overcome the insurgency once they are better trained. Also, if there's anything we've learned in the last 30 years is that you can't apply western rationality in determining what will happen in the Middle East. Also, a bike race analogy (or any analogy) wasn't really necessary, and likely bored most readers (constant thesaurus perusal notwithstanding).
2) A well-trained military does not guarantee stability. See most South American countries. While I have hope it does, there is no empirical evidence that would suggest this is always the case.
Opinions are one thing, but to create a mini-thesis without really backing up your argument with any kind of tangible evidence (save for a bike analogy you admit is inadequate) leaves a lot to be desired.
Posted by: Venom at March 07, 2005 10:53 AM (dbxVM)
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1) You state the obvious when you make the theoretical comment that Iraq will be able to handle itself when it has a population that supports its government and that (in theory) their military will be able to overcome the insurgency once they are better trained.
Actually, I said the inverse of that. This and your other comments reveal that you don't really understand the point I'm making, which is not about either an Iraqi or American victory over the insurgency (which is something I assume will happen) but what role that plays in establishing the
legitimacy of the regime. Suggest you consult something like a political science dictionary or encyclopedia, and look up the term "legitimacy" or "legitimation." Especially "social legitimation." You might also take a look at Lipset's
The First New Nation.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 07, 2005 03:05 PM (Dfdj0)
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"Actually, I said the inverse of that."
Hahaha, that's great...despite the fact that the legitimacy of a government increases quite highly with the support of its population (which can be even higher if said government defeats an insurgency), you're "saying the inverse" of that. And yet trying to play up the logical consequences of this "inverse" at the same time. Very deep and mysterious.
"This and your other comments reveal that you don't really understand the point I'm making..."
Maybe that means you need to put the thesaurus down?

I'm sure most people miss the points you're trying to make on a regular basis. Not because you're smarter and they're dumber, mind you. There's something to be said for concise points that don't meander all over the place.
Legitimacy is, obviously, a consequence of a population supporting its government. If a people support their government, regardless of the means that government attained power, it has legitimacy in the eyes of its population. So, no, I didn't miss your point. I just didn't think I needed to "legitimize" your post with any more incredibly obvious analysis.
"Suggest you consult something like a political science dictionary or encyclopedia, and look up the term "legitimacy" or "legitimation.""
Thanks teach. Will that give me the insightful powers you cast with every verbose-ridden post?
Posted by: Venom at March 07, 2005 03:26 PM (dbxVM)
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Hahaha, that's great...despite the fact that the legitimacy of a government increases quite highly with the support of its population (which can be even higher if said government defeats an insurgency), you're "saying the inverse" of that.
Yeah, without legitimacy it won't have any support, but that's the least of it. The regime simply won't exist for very long. "Support" is simply a matter of having popular policies, and so forth, which has very little to do with this. (That's a matter of administrations, rather than regimes, if you want to get technical.) Conceptually you're not even in the ball park.
Anyway, Venon... what makes you think anyone would be much interested in what you have to say (apart from pointing out conceptual errors that might mislead others) since you have a universally negative opinion of everything? It'd be like building a house with a .357.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 07, 2005 05:18 PM (Dfdj0)
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"without legitimacy it won't have any support, but that's the least of it. "
And you say I'm not in the ballpark...you're trying to put the cart before the horse with this statement. Popular support gives legitimacy, not the other way around. Otherwise, Saddam would have had a very legitimate government. But hey, how about I try to keep the illumination of conceptual errors to a minimum?
"Anyway, Venon... what makes you think anyone would be much interested in what you have to say since you have a universally negative opinion of everything?"
I don't think anyone would care what I have to say. Remember, I'm not at the point where I feel vain enough to have a blog. If you write in a blog, you open yourself to comment and criticism. If you don't like it, don't post. Besides, if you're going to write a monolithic post, you might want to keep in mind who your audience is. At this point, I'd bet that the majority of people who see your name likely skip your posts because your choice of words make even the simplest of issues a tiresome game of "how many big words will Demosophist use this time?" At which point, you have to ask yourself are you writing for the benefit of others or for yourself. I'm guessing the latter. So, why do it publicly?
Oh, and I don't have a universally negative opinion of everything. Just when I see things that I think a)need questioning, b)are so inherently stupid, they require comment, or c)are ignorant.
Posted by: Venom at March 07, 2005 06:16 PM (dbxVM)
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And you say I'm not in the ballpark...you're trying to put the cart before the horse with this statement. Popular support gives legitimacy...
I'd bother to explain this to you, but you're such a nasty fellow what's the point? Pupular support is just popular support. It has little to do with social legitimacy. Again, I suppose it's too much to ask you to have enough humility to decide you may not have this topic knocked... but a good starting point is Max Weber. That's not so much for you, because you're pretty much unreachable, but in case anyone else is interested.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 07, 2005 06:59 PM (Dfdj0)
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Holy smokes, you could split hairs until the cows come home, couldn't you? "It's not this legitimacy, it's that legitimacy." C'mon, it's common sense. Popular support makes all the difference in determining a legitimate government. You trying to dismiss it is pretty closed-minded. Considering that was the basis of your entire "argument" suggests to me you failed.
"That's not so much for you, because you're pretty much unreachable, but in case anyone else is interested."
lol...I guess you just glossed over my other point in that most people don't read your posts?
I'm not really unreachable, unless someone is trying to argue a point they 1)haven't backed up (see your post) or 2)is inherently wrong (see your post). Writing a post that you crafted with every conceivable adjective at your disposal doesn't make your post "right," by the way. It just shows a need to attempt to confuse the writer into thinking you know what you're talking about. By the way, I noticed you completely avoided any defense of my take on your need to write gigantic posts. Maybe I hit the nail on the head? Surely you have the "humility" to realize that?
Posted by: Venom at March 08, 2005 08:50 AM (dbxVM)
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*...to confuse the READER into thinking...
Posted by: Venom at March 08, 2005 08:52 AM (dbxVM)
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Venom I think he said "fouls his doorstep". As in dump.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at March 08, 2005 11:54 AM (l5t6M)
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Could be, Rod (though the "fouls his doorstep" has more flair). Either way, the message is the same.
Posted by: Venom at March 08, 2005 02:27 PM (dbxVM)
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Holy smokes, you could split hairs until the cows come home, couldn't you?
How does your inability to recognize a rather commonplace, standard and obvious distinction become my "ability to split hairs?" Equating "popular support" with political legitimacy is like equating applesaunce with jet fuel, observing that they're both sources of energy. George Washington had enough "popular support" to be elected, but so did Grover Cleveland and Jimmy Carter. The latter contributed precisely nothing to the legitimacy of the nation, while Washington contributed (for all practical purposes) everything. And for all I know Cleveland and Carter got a higher percentage of the vote.
Legitimacy isn't popular support. It just looks like it, to the ignorant. Legitimacy is what your parents earned by telling you "no,' when you needed to hear it, which obvioushly wasn't often enough.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 09, 2005 02:15 AM (Dfdj0)
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See, this is the problem with your argument. You're interpretation of the social legitimacy (or lack thereof) of Jimmy Carter's presidency is simply that: your interpretation. Perhaps your interpretation of social legitimacy is based on whether or not the society in question has engaged in some kind of nation-building (which again opens up the question as to what you actually consider "nation-building"). The "fans" of Jimmy Carter - i.e. the people who voted him in - might argue that his presidency did provide value in a socially legitimate sense. The problem is that you're confusing "identity" for "legitimacy" (oh, and cute comeback you slid in at the end, btw. I'll give you a free pass in the psychoanalysis, but I've got a few theories of mine own regarding your own upbringing). His presidency may not have contributed to the nation's identity in the same sense Washington's did, but is was legitimate in a social sense.
If you were to argue that the Iraqis are in danger of losing their new identity without the efforts of the U.S. and its coaltion, I'd agree with you. However, this new country is still going to be socially legitimate with or without the U.S.'s help as long as the majority of Iraqis support whoever is elected. It's them, not you (or the U.S.) who defines the social legitimacy of their country. You're attempting to place your viewpoints (or those you subscribe to) as some kind of blueprint as to whether or not their country will be socially legitimate, while in fact its their perceptions that define what's legitimate or not. Their collective (read: majority) perceptions will define all of this. As such, their popular support plays a far greater role than you wish to admit.
Posted by: Venom at March 09, 2005 10:09 AM (dbxVM)
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I'm really not going to belabor this topic any more, because you're apparently not even interested enough in learning or comprehension to bother to look up the concept somewhere (like Weber ferinstance). But suffice to say it's not "my definition" that's idiosyncratic, it's yours.
Posted by: Demosophist at March 09, 2005 10:54 AM (Dfdj0)
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Thank you, because this exchange was becoming as boring as your post. The best part, though, is that you actually didn't prove a thing within your post, and like most wannabe philosophers can't back up shite.
Posted by: Venom at March 10, 2005 10:43 AM (dbxVM)
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February 01, 2005
The First-Best Option
by Demosophist
A link to an article in a left-leaning paper, in a left-leaning area of a left-leaning country, sent to me today by a left-leaning friend. In his words: "All I want is a good outcome. I don't have to have been right."
Admit It: Bush Was Right About Iraq. Excerpt:
But on the defining, fundamental question, Bush was right.
He understood that to defeat an idea, no matter how perverse and brutal it might be, it was necessary to have an opposite and superior idea.
He understood, in other words — instinctively rather than intellectually — that the only way to win a war against terrorism was to turn it into a war for democracy.
This is now happening. Against the quest of ordinary Iraqis for dignity and self-respect and freedom, the terrorists in Iraq had nothing ultimately to offer, except blood and hatred.
(Cross-posted by Demosophist to Demosophia and Anticipatory Retaliation)
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I think George Bush sees the whole picture; not only that, he sees way into the future. T0 me,he's absolutely brillent! History will show that when its' rewritten.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at February 01, 2005 11:57 PM (D39Vm)
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If Kerry had won, there would not have been an election. That is scary to me. Now with the election over there is a platform to stand on. Before, nothing except who has the biggest guns.
The plan is working. I see Kennedy (the lady killer) and Kerry (the traitor) continue on. Too dumb to see their own futures going down the drain.
Posted by: greyrooster at February 02, 2005 10:10 AM (GpysX)
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Thank god we have a "dumb, stubborn" President. Once again the MSM is on the right side of history and America on the wrong side. Ask Tim R. at N if you do not believe what I just wrote.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at February 02, 2005 10:50 AM (gVJtb)
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*chuckels*
He *is* a genius!!! Just GENIUS!
Too bad I never got to vote for him... so SAD!
Posted by: Victoria at February 02, 2005 12:12 PM (pFTn0)
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January 30, 2005
But, but, but... (Update)
by Demosophist
Today, during a discussion on Fox News about the Iraq Election Moira Liasson objected to Brit Hume's contention that many people had been habitually skeptical about the odds of establishing a legitimate democracy in Iraq. Moira allowed that this just wasn't so, and that although many people had expressed skepticism about the details of the Bush plan nearly everyone had always had faith in the "will of all people to be free." Well, I can't speak for Liasson, nor do I know what she thought back then, but it seems to me her memory may be a bit "selective." Frankly, I don't know anyone who has more credibility with political sociologists on the topic of democratization than Amitai Etzioni, and over a year ago, back in November, 2003, I posted a comment to his blog post A Sociologist's Iraqi Exit Strategy. For documentation purposes you can find the original here, along with his response, but it's reproduced below for the sake of convenience:
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She is just plain lieing. Back a year ago she said the Iraq situation was a "quagmire" and there would never be a valid election. Sounds like she and Boxer are a team.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at January 31, 2005 08:25 AM (fLlQ8)
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people allways seem to forget that one basic rule, never say never....
Posted by: rumcrook at February 01, 2005 03:32 PM (KqxgH)
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Bottom of Form 1
Dr.Shepard why is Pat O'Connor imprisoned in Israel?
Thursday, February 03, 2005
Dr. Jack Shepard asks why did the Israel's Shin Bet Intelligence Agency imprison Patrick O'Connor an American for helping Palestinian children?
Dr. Jack Shepard says why is Patrick O'Connor,
an American and British Citizen,
imprisoned by Israeli's Shin Bet Intelligence Agency for help Palestinian Children!
________________________________________
His letter from Maasiyahu Prison can be read below!____________________________________________________________________
Patrick O'Connor has also worked for Save the Children.
Save the Children works by preventing children and young people
from coming to further harm, through child protection activities.
.....................................................................
Below you can read Patrick O'Connor's letter
from Maasiyahu Prison
about his arrest and interview
by Isreal's Shin Bet intelligence Agency.
...................................................................................
Patrick O'Connor worked with Palestinian children in Gaza. Recently the Israeli authorities have begun searching for and arresting experienced International Solidarity Movement (ISM) and international activists.
My arrest and attempted deportation is another example of this.
Evidently the Israeli authorities find nonviolent resistance and active support of Palestinian rights to be threatening.
Despite claims to the contrary, they have adopted an unstated goal of breaking down and eliminating the ISM and other groups using nonviolence to support Palestinian rights.
During the past three years over 100 ISMers have been denied entry and 62 deported.
At the same time Israeli authorities have launched a propaganda campaign against ISM and other activists, with attempts to falsely link them with terrorism.
My recent interrogation by the Shin Bet shed some light on the tactics.On the morning of January 25th I was taken from a Ben Gurion airport detention center to Maasiyahu prison in Ramle.
I was put in a 20 foot by 10 foot cell with six other men served with deportation orders. After a few hours I was called from my cell without explanation.
My legs were cuffed together and I was led out of my section to another building. I was taken into a room with two men in plainclothes.
They closed the door, searched me thoroughly, and then set me down with the leg cuffs still on.
The two men were fit, had short hair and sport shirts - typical Shin Bet agents, working for Israel's domestic General Security Service (GSS).
Only one spoke, the other observed. He began by saying he was from Shin Bet and asked me if I knew why the Shin Bet was interested in the ISM.
I replied, saying that their interest was misplaced, because the ISM supports nonviolent Palestinian resistance, and there should be no reason for Israel to oppose that.
He laughed and said that the Palestinians might be nonviolent by day and violent by night.
Then he started on the internationals, mentioning two incidents from 2003 that have been badly distorted and are often used by Israeli authorities to slander the ISM.
He brought up the arrest of a "wanted" man in the ISM apartment in Jenin and the two British suicide bombers, people who had absolutely no connection with the ISM.
He didn't seem interested in listening to my response (for details on these two incidents see www.palsolidarity.org at the frequently-asked questions sections).
Instead, he had read my affidavit to the court in 2003 from my appeal of my denial of entry, and he claimed it said that I had participated in violent demonstrations.
I responded that he had misread my affidavit, because it said clearly that I have participated in peaceful demonstrations that had been met with violence by the Israeli military.
I also told him that if the "secret evidence" against me were revealed, it would not stand up to scrutiny.
He asked me if I had ever carried correspondence for "wanted men", helped wanted men to move about, or given my passport for someone else to use.
He asked if I had ever hit a soldier or thrown stones. He asked if I had ever received weapons or arms training. I answered with indignant 'No's, reiterating that I was a nonviolent activist.
"Maybe you are a real peace activist," he said,
"but can you guarantee that others are?"
I told him that ISM requires all activists to commit to the use of strictly nonviolent means.
He asked me for names of Palestinians working with the ISM. I told him that I was sure he had other sources of information and that I would not give him any information. He also asked me if I was familiar with Israeli peace activist Tali Fahima (jailed and accused of being in contact with "wanted" men from Jenin) and whether I had met Zakaria Zbedi (The head of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in Jenin). "While I have heard of both," I said, "I have met neither."
The interview ended and I was returned shackled to my cell.
There are issues I was afraid to discuss frankly
my interrogation - issues relating to Israeli violence, Israeli double standards, international law
and the arrest of Tali Fahima.
The Shin Bet agents are in a position of power over me as I sit in an Israeli prison.
I know they may distort and manipulate things I say to punish me and achieve their goal of damaging the ISM.
However, the inequality of power and threat of punishment is far less for me than it is for a Palestinian who goes through interrogation. I have governments, which will support me and prevent the worst abuses.
I can afford a good lawyer, who I will be given access to. I have a strong support group and access to the media.
I will also leave here and will not continue to live under Israeli control.Over and over again we have seen that the
international community will not protect Palestinians from Israeli abuses.
They can be imprisoned arbitrarily and tortured.
They are often denied access to lawyers, their homes, lands and their jobs. Freedom of movement can be taken away, and their families are threatened with the same punishments.
The media will not cover their story. Nor do Palestinians have an option to escape Israeli domination.
Power and threats mean
that Shin Bet interrogations of Palestinians
produces incomplete and twisted information.
What disturbed me most about my interrogation by the Shin Bet agent, was his seeming certainty about his information. Not only do the Israeli authorities produce propaganda about the Occupation and about the ISM, but some of them appear to believe it themselves.
The Shin Bet also seems to aim to intimidate by giving the appearance of being all knowing, but their "intelligence" is obviously flawed.
Israeli intelligence is generated from collaborators, surveillance, and interrogation!
It serves the corrupt and corrupting goals of continued military occupation, land seizure, domination and manipulation.
Israeli intelligence treats all forms of opposition as a threat to be eliminated.
It labels all Palestinians as 'terrorists' and all Israelis and internationals who work with them as 'collaborators with terrorism'.
This produces a distorted characterization of Palestinian society, lacking direct experience with normal Palestinians and failing to recognise Palestinians are people with rights and aspirations.
The Shin Bet agent called me 'naive', but I think he is naive for believing that he can understand Palestinian society from a position of domination and inequality, and somehow use that understanding to control and manipulate Palestinians to eliminate all opposition to the Occupation.
Pat O'Connor has worked for Save the Children
and has managed humanitarian aid programs
in the Middle East and Africa,
and volunteered with the International Solidarity Movement in the West Bank
supporting non-violent Palestinian protest
against the Wall.
He is currently in detention at Maasiyahu prison
in Ramle awaiting deportation
Posted by: Dr. Shepard at February 03, 2005 04:43 PM (D3TC8)
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January 17, 2005
Quakes, Waves and Spiritual Awakenings
by Demosophist
A recent installment of The Belmont Club on a "colonial corps" had a reference to Sam Huntington's speech on a "great awakening" in the US, and his thesis that the greatest ideological force in the world today is God. This, from a Harvard professor. His perspective, however, isn't as a religionist but as a sociologist and political scientist. I wrote a piece several years ago, on the first anniversary of the 9/11 attack, about a "tidal wave" of totalitarianism in the Middle East traveling, mostly unnoticed, toward landfall. It's somewhat ironic to think about that wave analogy now. The term "tidal wave" is slightly misleading, because it really has nothing to do with the lunar tides, but is "tidal" in the sense of being a sudden change in sea level as a result of a shift in the earth itself. One might call it an "earth tide," or a "quake wave." I therefore reasoned that it was a good analogy to what had happened to the Middle East where subterranean pressures had built up over centuries and had finally resulted in a paradigmatic shift in the culture. And I reasoned that the only way to deal with the consequences of that shift, analogous to the rise of the Nazis in the early 1930s, was to create a "counter-wave." In terms of the jihadist movement a liberal/democratic vanguard to counter their Qutbist vanguard.
more...
Posted by: Demosophist at
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1
Well, instead of using big words most people don't understand, how many wars have been fought regarding "religion?" Hundreds thoughout the years.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at January 18, 2005 02:48 AM (D39Vm)
2
Well, instead of using big words most people don't understand, how many wars have been fought regarding "religion?" Hundreds thoughout the years.
Sorry you don't understand some of the words, but this isn't a conflict over religion. It's a conflict over totalitarianism, with religion caught in the middle. Now, you don't have to believe that... but if you don't you'll fall short of understanding what's going on.
Posted by: Demosophist at January 18, 2005 09:21 AM (7AGFb)
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Demophist, I know you are a writer but come down a few notches on your big words so that others can understand you better.
Just my friendly opinion. It's not nice to talk over people's heads and under their feet. Think of the "average" people when you write a post. Some friendly advice is all.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at January 23, 2005 03:21 AM (D39Vm)
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December 28, 2004
UN Criticizes U.S. For Stinginess
After the Bush administration pledged $15 million in immediate relief aid for tsunami victims and directed the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) to send a 21-member disaster-relief team to the region, the Norwegian-born UN Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland said the U.S. is stingy and should
raise taxes to give more.
Thanks for the suggestion, Mr. Egeland. In return I'd like to suggest you have your entire paycheck donated to relief efforts. It's also worth mentioning that if you're attempting to rekindle an American fondness for the UN, you are going at it all wrong. Let the American people decide what our taxes should be. The next time you want to weigh in on U.S. tax policy, with all due respect, put a sock in it.
[Update] From a commenter, those interested in relaying some pleasantries to Mr. Jan Egeland, his phone and fax numbers are displayed here.
Companion post at Interested-Participant.
Posted by: Mike Pechar at
08:36 AM
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1
Maybe he can send some the oil-for-food money the UN has stashed away.
Posted by: dittybopper at December 28, 2004 09:26 AM (j2M1Q)
2
Let's be reasonable here. Last fall when hurricanes devastated the southeast U.S. and took the lives of 50 some odd Americans, not to mention billions of dollars in damage to property, the international community spearheaded by the U.N. stepped right in and... er, nevermind.
Posted by: babs at December 28, 2004 09:37 AM (z17nq)
3
http://kerryhaters.blogspot.com/
this guy posted Mr. Stingy's direct phone and fax number.
Posted by: stringy at December 28, 2004 10:07 AM (nTEvo)
4
I'm must be one cold hearted biotch. If it were up to me, I wouldn't send a dime.
Posted by: Princess Kimberley at December 28, 2004 01:08 PM (EZVEU)
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He should go to the Anan clan and ask for a few $Million from their Oil-for-food money. Then go to M. Moore. Then AFTER he has their money the US should match 0.01:1, or one cent on the dollar.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 28, 2004 01:22 PM (tHUgl)
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Here's my problem with giving money to Indonesia... The area is what, 88% muslim? They are burning Christian homes and farms, while the muslim authorities look the other way. So if I were to give, chances of any help reaching Christians is slim. I'm not even religiuous, I just have an issue helping people who would just as soon cut off my head, to make a religious statement.
Posted by: Princess Kimberley at December 28, 2004 01:40 PM (EZVEU)
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That last comment made me feel sick. You don't think people deserve aid if they're Muslims? What should we do... give the money to all the Bhuddists and the Tamils but tell those closest to the quake to bugger off because 'you were born into the wrong religion'?
Don't you even realise that in Aceh province the Christians kill the Muslims too? How black and white do you think the world is???
Posted by: Martin at December 29, 2004 02:56 AM (ll2pj)
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Kimberly,
I don't know what rock you crawled from under but to not help an area of the world where 100,000 are presumed dead and many many thousands dead by a natural disaster irregardless of religion, race, or politics, you are no "Christian." Go back and hide under the rock, comments like yours make me ill.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at December 29, 2004 11:49 AM (D39Vm)
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I wonder how much aid for Indonesia is coming from other Muslim countries? Are they taking care of their own?
Anyone heard from the French. How much aid is coming from the Frog pond. Am I an uncaring bastard for asking?
Would Indonesia or Somalia help us in should things be turned around? Any dancing in the streets after 9/11. Should it matter?
KIMBERLY, I for one understand what you are saying. You are not a bad person for letting your feelings come out. Conquering 1st feelings is hard because most of the time 1st feelings are correct. Yes they do teach hatred toward us in their Islamic schools. They teach that we are evil and terrible things should happen to America. Many in their country hope and pray that what happened to them will happen to us. If it does they will say, see God is punishing America for being so evil.
However, we should take the high road and act better because we are better. As in Iraq. The job falls on those that can do the job. Just the way things are.
Posted by: greyrooster at January 01, 2005 07:13 PM (VsBCt)
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PS: I'm not a Christian. I just try to do what is right for me and mine. So I never do the Christian thing. I'm scared to death of them.
Posted by: greyrooster at January 01, 2005 07:21 PM (VsBCt)
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No No NO Martin. What PrincessKimberly said was she didn't think she ought to give money to help people who would like to kill her and her family.
I'm afraid I've got to agree with that sentiment.
Of course, not all the people who are affected by the Tsunami are murderous bastards, but here's a picture of a Sri Lanken proudly displaying his Bin Laden T-shirt.
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51896117&cdi=0
Should we withhold aid? No. Should we be forced to give aid via the UN? Absolutely NOT! The UN could dry up and blow away and the world would be a much better place.
Posted by: C.Ecker at January 02, 2005 12:17 PM (RTqoj)
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For all thoes who think we SHOULDENT send them aid, if it was you your opinion would be very different. And I think almost all of you are steriotypes. God get a life and a heart, even if your not Christian (and FYI I'm not either) we may be different counreys but we are also the same world. And even in this countrey, we all have different opinions, look at THIS web page if you need proof. People over there have thier own opinions to.
Posted by: Angie at January 05, 2005 05:13 PM (ayqzU)
13
Princess Kimberley clearly stated she is not a Christian, and not even "religious." She is simply sharing her opinion, which is a valid one.
Posted by: Crazy Kid at January 06, 2005 02:47 PM (Wo3rD)
14
we do so much for the UN and they never give us any thanks or efforts of trying to make th US an easier job. They have to give to recieve.
Posted by: kayla at March 30, 2005 01:57 AM (6krEN)
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December 23, 2004
Kofi Calls Bush
As much criticism as I've leveled at both Kofi Annan and the United Nations, I feel I should present a story that is positive towards Annan because at times I've been too critical of the oil-for-food swindler.
WASHINGTON - President Bush took a condolence call Thursday from U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who said he mourned the loss of more than 20 people in an apparent suicide attack at a U.S. military outpost in Mosul, Iraq.
This was a kind gesture by the man who runs the UN, though I can't help if his comments regarding supporting the Iraqi people later in the
article are accurate. If Annan truly supports the people of Iraq, he would send more than
22 UN electoral officials to Iraq for next month's historic elections. Then again, Annan doesn't believe the
elections will happen.
A kind gesture of goodwill between Annan and President Bush is nice to hear, but for those words to resonate with Americans Annan needs to back his wording with action.
Cross-posted at In the Bullpen
Posted by: Chad at
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1
I think it was jus a PR ploy. What the MSM calls a "photo op"
Kofi is mad as H--- we went into Iraq for obvious financial reasons. Since it came out last month that members of his family were getting kickbacks in the "Food for Oil" boondogle; he and the MSM have been working on a campaign to convince us that he is really a "good" guy. If you buy that then you may believe that the homicide bombers ( whose families got between $10,000,000 and $25,000,000 of Sadam's kick backs) were spreading Allah's love.
Rod Stanton
Cerritos
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 23, 2004 04:02 PM (tHUgl)
2
Too critical of the oil for food swindler? Are you nuts? No one could be critical enough. Kofi Annon is a bum. Always has been and always will be. A crook is a crook. Enough of this crap of protecting the good name of the UN. It doesn't have a good name.
Posted by: greyrooster at December 23, 2004 09:01 PM (visY3)
3
Rod, normally I'd agree it was a PR move, however usually in a PR move the key for making it work is to include the media. The statement was made by the White House Press Secretary. That's what makes this a bit odd to me and makes me believe there is something going on behind the scenes with the U.S. and U.N.
Greyrooster, I realize it's hard to tell sarcasm in the written word, but imagine I inserted some there. I've been calling for his resignation since August when he entered into the political arena.
Posted by: Chad at December 23, 2004 09:07 PM (S/NaF)
4
Sorry, Too much company today. Too many margaritas. Too much food. Too many stories. Too much Venom. Too much everything. Life is good. Just trying to enjoy it. Partying with friends. One more month until 1st grandson. 2 more months until my son comes back from Iraq. Two turkeys and one ham to cook. Forgive me for missing the obvious. Gotta go as everyone here says give it up for tonight. Sure hope I get a Penn International reel for Xmas. Going to peek when everyone goes to bed. Jim, James, Venom, kiss my ass. Everyone else have a good Xmas.
Posted by: greyrooster at December 23, 2004 10:57 PM (visY3)
5
I realized I sounded too acusatory in my previous statement. I just meant that I should have elaborated more or left out sarcasm in the written word.
Posted by: Chad at December 24, 2004 12:05 AM (NK+l7)
6
Chad, Kofi Annan is still a swindler, so is his son and his nephew and he has done nothing about the genocide going on in the Darfur region of the Sudan among many things. I believe like other old readers of this site that UN building should be bulldozed into the closest river in New York (look in archives) and either forget about having a UN or actually having one that will do the job it's supposed to do. Having his sidekick resigning today - so immediately - makes you wonder if that poor man did that to take the pressure off Kofi Annan or because he knew something. The UN is useless and so is Kofi Annan and it's been that way for too many years now. He has not stepped up to the plate and I doubt he ever will.
Greyrooster: take a deep breath and try to relax and set your mind so that certain people don't get to you; it'll save your sanity my friend.
And I would like to wish everyone a Happy Holiday, no matter what religion you are but please don't take 'CHRIST' out of Christmas.
God Bless,
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at December 24, 2004 12:25 AM (D39Vm)
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Greyrooster Grandkids are great! I love mine. Where did you go to boot? You think the way I do. Was it Daygo or LeJune?
Do all Jareheads think the same way or what. We were all great!
Posted by: Rod Stanton at December 24, 2004 12:27 PM (tHUgl)
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Do we need anymore reason to tell the UN to get lost? i mean why do we have to put up with this bunch of idiots lets just tell them to get lost and be gone
Posted by: sandpiper at December 24, 2004 03:02 PM (fvObb)
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HOW EASY THE IRAQI'S FORGET HOW LIFE WAS UNDER SADDAM HUSSEIN.
by Dr. Jack Shepard__________________________________________________ _____________________________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_jack_shepard/
_________________________________________________Dr. Jack Shepard remembers consoling a father of one of the Children dying in Baghdad's Children's Hospital in March 2001; due to the lack of basic food supplements. by Dr. Jack Shepard Dr. Jack Shepard remebers consoling a father of one of the Children dying in Baghdad's Children's Hospital in March 2001; due to the lack of basic food supplements and adequate medicine, because Saddam Hussein choose to spend Billions of dollars of the Iraqi people money on himself. Dr. Shepard said presently the extremists in Iraq do not respect the uniqueness of each human as they were created by Allah. Dr. Shepard's repeats what the Prophet Mohammad said almost 1400 years ago, "this man will dwell in hell by his actions and this man will dwell in heaven by his." Basically what Dr. Shepard is saying that the teachings of Mohammad have been forgotten by the extremists and presently by their actions the extremists will be judged by the deeds and Allah will send them to dwell in Hell forever. The Prophet Mohammad teaching were based on submission to Allah; to do right and be granted eternal life. Dr. Shepard prayers for the day when the Iraqi people can get on with their lives. If the Iraqi People do not learn to respect each other and begin to speak out against the antisocial behavior and protest it the streets; the Iraqi people will never begin to be able to get on with their lives. To avert continued anarchy the mass of Iraqi People who really wish peace and happiness must speak out in the streets for peace, their silence to what is now happening only allows this twist and distorted situation where we find one Iraqi Brother killing another. This is only happening because many power-monger in the Iraqi population each wish to be an important power-mongers even if he has to kill his fellow Iraqi to establish their dominance as the new Iraqi leader. These people are truly people without a soul and do not fear Allah as the Prophet Mohammad taught. They are creating an environment for themselves where they will never see heaven. I and the world grow weary that this rebellious attitude has now become a fad. Presently in all truth many Iraqi's have become real mindless hypocrites by not stopping and protesting this new generation of power-mongers who are beginning to kill each other in ever greater numbers because they are set on ruling Iraq but reject the world trying to help their fellow Iraqi who are dying and starving because of their inhuman behavior. May Allah Bless Iraq and the Iraqi People with Peace and Happiness. This will only happen when the Average Iraqi man on the street cry out remember Allah you my brothers of Iraq. You must stop this evil behavior or you will dwell in the fires of Hell forever. Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace group www.shepardusgov.com, www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group Click on image for a larger version http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_jack_shepard/
Posted by: Dr. Jack Shepard at December 25, 2004 08:54 AM (O22/f)
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Chad, you're doing fine!
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at December 27, 2004 02:09 PM (D39Vm)
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR. JACK SHEPARD'S VIDEO WARNING IRAQI SUICIDE BOMBERS THAT THEY GO TO HELL NOT HEAVEN,
Visit www.shepardusgov.com
By Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group.
Hello let us all pray for Peace.
I have made a 2.5 minute video Warning the Iraqi Suicide Bombers to beware; if they kill themselves they go to Hell not Heaven.
Please visit www.shepardusgov.com to see my Video warning to the Iraqi Insurgents.
If my message gets somehow to the Iraqi Insurgents and the Palestinian Suicide Bombers, and they learn what they do is against the Koran I think they will stop.
Then God willing we will have Peace In Israel and Iraqi and Love and Peace will have a chance.
Please copy my CD if anyone wishes TO HELP SPREAD THESE WORDS TO THE SUICIDE BOMBERS BEFORE THEY KILL THEMSELVES AND MANY OTHER POOR INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Then take it to your local TV Station to play for 2.5 minutes to stimulate a discussion about Suicide Bombing as a Weapon of War.
Please advise the TV station after they play my brief 2.5 minute video. I would suggest that the TV station organizes to have a group of religious scholars from all faiths give their opinion what each religion teaches its followers about Suicide.
May God Bless the World with Love and Peace
Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace To contact
Dr. Shepard with ideas or comments Email: middle.east@flashnet.it
The ORIGINAL text (to use in translation into Arabic) of Dr.Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group's warning to the Insurgent suicide bombers.
My brothers in Iraqi I pray for you; I am Dr. Jack Shepard founder of People for Peace (to use in translation into Arabic)
I warn the militant insurgents in Iraq you are now fighting and killing mostly innocent Iraqi men, women, and children, you do not fear Allah, if you continue to obey the evil publishing of fatwa (edicts) by Iraqi religious leaders.
These edicts are blaspheme against Allah and Prophet Muhammad, you defy the divine assertions that the Quran is complete, perfect, fully detailed, and shall be the only source of religious guidance Prophet Muhammad stated in very strong words, against issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran.
Fatwa were never authorized by Allah or the Prophet Muhammad, edicts are not the Word of God.
Presently many of the scholars in Iraq are engaging in major acts of disbelief by issuing these edicts. Believing in Allah means to believe Him and accept His teaching and His word.
Choosing the scholars or the dictionary over Allah reflects a disbelief in Allah and His word (Quran).
We each are living out AllahÂ’s plan; Allah knew each of us before we were born. What ever we do we can not hide it from Allah. As Mohammad once said this one, by his actions was made for Paradise and this one, by his actions was made for the fire of Hell.
The Jihad Organizations lie to the insurgents. These Organizations are led by these misguided individuals that only increase the tribulations of the entire Muslim community by not telling to young insurgents that suicide bombings according to the Quran guarantees punishment “in the fire of hell, wherein they shall dwell forever.”
Suicide bombing by young uninformed Muslim youths had been carried out almost routinely as a mean of revenge in the Iraq conflict.
These suicide bombers created an intolerable situation, no permission can be found in Islam to avengence by suicide bombing or by targeting the innocent civilians.
These young desperate Muslim youth have been taught what is NOT in the Quran, and what was never promised by Allah.
I pray my brothers in Iraq remember these things before Allah announces his verdict on you, presently only those who do not fear Allah are blocking the ability of ordinary IraqiÂ’s to take control of their own country
These fatwa (edicts) are presently causing limitless grief and sadness for your brothers in Iraq.
You militant insurgents who blindly obey these fatwa (edicts) have created a monstrous and inhumane situation unnecessarily in Iraq by killing and harming mostly your fellow Muslim Brothers if you continue your actions you will be made for the fires of hell..
My Iraqi brother l still hope and pray for you.
I only can Warn the Iraqi insurgents; stop killing your brothers Unfortunately most of the men, women and children who you are hurt and killed most often have nothing to do with anything but are just ordinary Iraqi trying to live, praying for their nightmare to end.
Those of you that follow these fatwa (edicts) how can you call your actions acts of resistance, all your doing is maximizing the suffering of your Muslim brothers in Iraq.
In the name of Allah stop. Allah sees all.
Presently you have to understand your actions are not right-doing for the Iraqi men, women and children that you are killing and maiming by exploding cars and bombs in the streets or shooting mortar or grenade launchers into the crowded streets.
You militant insurgents want to the American Coalition to go home; call a truce and learn to love your neighbors; as people made for Paradise would, and at that moment, the Coalition will immediately begin to start going home.
Fear Allah! How can you call your actions acts of resistance, all your doing is maximizing the suffering of the Iraqi people, suirely you do not fear Allah. Istill hope and pray for you..
I, myself pray that Allah blesses Iraq and the Middle East with Peace.
Allah made us all, do not be blinded by these blashme of these Edicts or fataw's these Coalition soldiers or Iraqi Policeman were all created by Allah. They have wives, children and families just like you.
They would be happier than you to soon be able to return home to their families and loved ones, as you would be happier to return to your families and a normal life.
We have to remember if we break Allah's law, by obeying false lord’s fatwa (edicts) we move ourselves away from Allah's mercy and support. Allah is send upon you humiliation and Allah will not remove it from you until you return to (practicing) Islam (correctly),”
Only when you stop killing our brothers and exploding cars in the streets, the kidnapping and murder of people in a manner which contradicts the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad.
You insurgents have to remember there is nothing holy about a war in Islam. If we call a truce with your brother Iraqi's the sooner the American Coalition force will have to leave Iraqi soil, ending their occupation and give you the control of their destiny.
In the name of Allah:end this slaughter of thousands of your innocence Iraqi brothers both men, women and children immediately.
Fear Allah
In the name of Allah: stop doing what is not pleasing to Allah or surely you will dwell in the fires of Hell for ever.
Allah is all knowing and seeing.
By Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace
Posted by: Drjackshepard at July 02, 2005 09:51 AM (D3TC8)
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